The Ringer NBA Show - Are the Mavericks Too Reliant on Luka? Plus, Debating Which of the NBA’s Top Teams Are Imposters. | Real Ones

Episode Date: November 10, 2022

Logan and Raja discuss Luka Doncic’s MVP-type numbers and how his abnormally high usage rate impacts the Mavs’ ceiling as a championship contender (1:42). Next, they debate which of the four teams with both a top 10 offense and a top 10 defense suffer from imposter syndrome (32:30). Later, they quickly break down some of the league’s most pressing story lines (44:49). Finally, the guys close out with their Real Ones of the Week (50:52). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor. Wait a minute, you're not Chris Vernon. No, Kevin, sadly, I'm not as cherubic or as raspy as Verno, but it is I, Jay Kyle, man. And folks, basketball has been and continues to be so very good. That's exactly why Kyle and I are hosting a brand new basketball show on a brand new podcast feed, the ringers NBA draft show. We're going to have you covered every week as we go in-depth and deep dive in hopes of answering an ever-important question in the NBA. Who's got next?

Whether it's an international phenom like Victor Winbenyama or the G-League Scoot Henderson. Or stars from Overtime Elite like A. Men Thompson, as well as a full-blown swarm of talented prospects from the promising 2023 NBA draft class. For sure, Kyle. And we're also going to get into players from the college ranks because this is a loaded class. for us to discuss prospects rising and falling, and we're going to revisit and redraft recent draft classes and get into how the league's evolution could help inform what's valuable in a prospect of the future.

This is a podcast for a fan of every team, whether you're losing and have high draft lottery odds or you're looking for sleepers later in the draft. We're going to be covering everything in the months to come, so please make sure you follow and subscribe to the Ringer NBA Draft Show. And hit us with those five-star ratings. What's popping? I can hear, Roger Bell there.

Real ones. Roger, man, I've been having my eye on Dallas lately. Taking a look at Luca. Just because, you know, Luca's one of my favorite players in the league because he just talks mad shit and lives his raps. I just love that about him. So, but I've been looking at him lately.

And he's putting up MVP numbers right now. At the moment, the guy is averaging 36, 8, 8, and even two steals a game, right? Had nine straight 30-point games. He's been bawling. He's been doing what Luca does. But the Mavs are six and four in those games. They fell to the magic,

and our guy in front of the show, Paolo Bencetto, lost to the magic last night. But it got me thinking, man. And I know you played with the guy like this and Alan Iverson, but it got me thinking to high-usage guys that are put on the teams or teams are built around them as such

where a lot of the responsibility falls on them for the offensive output. You know, great examples you think about. And it's been a mixed bag on how team success is gone, right? I think about Kobe in the 05-06 season when he averaged 35, the team won 45 games that year, right? And then you think about James Hardin, who brought his team to the Western Conference Finals,

couple of times being a very, very high-usage guy. And then another example right now, Janice Adiqumbo, who is another high-usage guy that leads to success because he's so good. But I guess my question to you is, Roger, is there a ceiling to this? And I want to have a more nuanced discussion about that. But like, is there a ceiling to teams that have these types of great individual talent? Well, you know, you referenced Janice, who's a high usage rate guy, but, you know, Janus is the example of it being able to win a championship. And I think we did touch on this last pod.

What separates Janus from the other names that you kind of brought up in the category is his ability to both be high usage rate and then just be one of your best defenders, rim protectors, rangy, versatile defenders. So he's a true two-way guy, right? So that kind of separates him from the James Hardens, the Luca in my book, the Alan Iverson, even though Chuck would get out there and get steals. Janus is a great defender. So I think that you can win like that. Yannis being an example, the team that I played on with these Sixers being another example and an example of getting the chemistry and the pieces around that high usage rate player correct. It's a very delicate recipe of having another player or two that can create if said high usage rate guy is off the floor, but not need the ball all the time so they can play off of it if they're on the floor with him, having the right amounts of rebounding and defense in shooters that can supplement and maybe take up some of the slack defensively for said high usage rate guy. And Philly had that.

And it never bothered me. I love playing with Alan Iverson, but I was at a point in my career where I wasn't expecting. much offensively. I was kind of happy to be there. And so, you know, my inner competitor slash ego hadn't reached the point where I was like, damn, though, I'm just going to stand in this corner for 20 seconds. Yeah. That might have frustrated me later in my career. I'm just being honest about it. At that point, it did not. But as I got older, that might have been hell of frustrating for me. And so, you know, it's always easier to game plan for one offensive threat, even if it's really good, than it is the game playing for four people that can hurt you.

You know, now the beauty of today's game, I think it's more set up for that high usage rate guys. You know, there's not much in the paint. So not like, you know, Alan Iverson was having to pick himself off the floor and he had a huge swollen burser sacks in his elbows. And, you know, he wasn't kicking out to great three-point shooters. Like, you surround the Luca and Janice and James Harden with great shooters. And they live in the paint.

I mean, it's not just one guy. I got to prepare for. I got to account for all these shooters, too, that changes the math a little bit. But it's real, Logan, I don't love the one high usage rate guy. Like, like, I love Luca. I think Lucas fantastic. He's 30 plus, eight boards, eight assists. You know, I tell you in this, in one breath that I love what Russ did, because I know how hard that is to do, even if you're an extraordinarily high usage rate guy. So like, I have all the respect in the world for what Luca is doing. But I worry about their ceilings, specifically the Mavs, because some people, point someone's going to have someone's going to have an answer for Luca, not in the way that it shuts

him down, but in the way where it affects his percentages enough for the other team to win the games. And this is a thing that we've talked about with Luca, finding another guy to help supplement his scoring and also his output. But the Mavs have had trouble finding that second guy, right? The bona fide second All-Star, you know, Jalen Brunson left. And he's a really, really good player, but that's not the kind of guy we're talking about, right? Just having a guy, like, I think the bigger example is when they tried to, when the Mabbs tried to get Porzingis and try to get a guy that with All-Star talent to be able to play alongside him. Why can't the Mabbs find a guy? Is Luca the reason why an All-Star can't coexist with him? Or is it

bigger than that right now? That's the multi-million dollar question, right? Is it, what came first, the chicken or the egg. Is it that no one else can thrive in a playmaking role because Luca is so ball dominant and there's not enough opportunity there? Or is it that Luca does that and has to do that because they haven't found someone who can be his sidekick in that regard? I don't have a great answer for that. I tend to think, I tend to think if I'm being honest that it's Luca and that's the way he plays and to get the best out of him and it's so intoxicating. It's so brilliant at times offensively. It's so crafty. It just, it looks like poetry in motion a lot of times. You know, shit's just nasty. And you want to get every ounce out of that you can. And so you let him play to

every strength he has. Every strength he has has the ball in his hands the whole time. And so I tend to think if you were pushing me that it would be, you know, Luca's so ball dominant that it would be hard for anyone else to, to grow in a playmaking role. And I'll use myself for an example. And I've said this multiple times. I'm not sitting here telling you that at any point in my NBA career, I was going to be a great playmaker with the ball in my hands. So I want to get that out of the way right now. That's not what I'm saying for anyone listening.

What I am saying to you is, in my third and fourth years in the league with Utah, I was entrusted with more playmaking. If you go back and look at the tape, I would come off a pick and roll. They would post me up a little bit. I'd have the ball in my hands and I get to one, two, three dribble pull-ups. Like my game was rounding out in a way that I could have continued to grow. I don't know that I would have ever been good enough to do that on a good team. But the point was my game was growing because there was need in Utah at the time for people to fill these roles.

As soon as I got to Phoenix, I was in a corner. I loved being in the corner. It was the best thing that ever happened to my game. Those were my favorite teams that play on. We had the most success. All of those dudes are like my brothers. I'm not complaining about that. But what it did to my game was it kind of stalled my growth in that.

having the ball in your hands, learning how to play with it and create capacity. I now became a guy who just ran to the corner and shot threes. And that's what I trained to do all summer.

And that was my role on that team. And so I gave up any aspiration I had at doing anything else. Quite frankly, I wasn't going to be good enough at it.

So it made sense to do so. But because of the system I was in, and, you know, Steve did our primary playmaking and Amari was a rim thread and Boris and stat, like, I got my ass to the corner

and I shot and I defended. And so that was a product of this new system I was in. The same way of me learning how to play with the ball was a product of the old system I was in in Utah. And so as it pertains and relates to the Mavs, I do think that it's probably Luca plays this way and to get the best out of Luca, this is the way we're going to play.

And Jalen Brunson, I mean, he's playing really great in New York. He can hoop. He can hoop, but he, you know, he's a player that wants the ball too. So how long do they stay there and play with Luca is the question? I don't know. Whenever you would watch James Harden play, and I see this similarly with Luca, there's a lot of guys who are standing in the corner without energy, right? And it's really, really hard to find that energy when you're standing around.

I think you're a different example because the suns always were constant movement. There were things where you guys tried not to get to stay. There was a lot of more pace. Yes, when you're playing with pace, it alleviates some of the boredom that you're talking about, right? I'd equated to like being in the outfield and not getting a fly ball. for like hours, you know? And you're just just standing there. What does that do to a player when,

when they are standing in the corner with a Harden or Luca, who are basically, I'm going to, who basically their game is I'm going to dribble down to 14 seconds and then I'm going to make a decision either way. And I'm going to drive and maybe dish out. Or I'm going to drive, shoot, or I'm going to drive and lay up. What is that like when you're just, you're not really getting any energy as a role player?

or not getting the ball in your pocket all the time. It can be difficult, man. I always said this to Mike D'Antony, and I'm not a brilliant offensive mind, like some of these coaches, but I've always said that I don't have to shoot a bunch of shots to feel good about a shot, right? Like, this isn't about I need the volume of shots

to start making shots. This is more about an accumulation of touches so that I feel like I'm involved in the game. It could be as simple as, yo, you're reversing it through me. I'm swinging it again, and then I'm going to run some sort of pin away or some, whatever the action is on the weak side while Luca's getting in his back, at least on that possession, I touched the ball.

So I feel like I'm in the game. You know, there's a little blood flow. There's some juices, you know, mixing. And so the touches, I would ask Mike, you, just if there's a way for me to get a touch on something here and there, doesn't mean I have to shoot it. Like, that would be helpful because then when that shit gets ricocheted around to me in the corner, it's not that I have to be. haven't touched the ball in like eight minutes of real time.

And even like if you pass the ball back to Steve Nash really quickly, right? Like if you just get it back and just pass it, that even does more. Every touch on the ball is somewhere in your subconscious. It makes you feel like you're in the game. When you just stand and never touch it, there can be real pockets of like seven, eight minutes of time that go by without touching the ball. And then that thing hits your hands and you're expected to like make a shot. you know, that's your job.

So to the best of your ability, you have to condition yourself to be able to play like that. It just helps the psyche when you're touching it. Or, you know, when you're moving, it's harder to just stand in that corner and not touch it than it is if you're moving in some sort of actions and not touching it.

And so that becomes the challenge of any good offensive coach that has a player that as ball dominant and as great in that role as Aluka, an AI, or James Harden. But it can play games with you. You know, everyone in the NBA for the most part, the Pat Beves, the PJ Tucker, I'm using names of guys that you don't normally associate with getting buckets.

At a stop, not too far from their last stop before getting to the NBA, they were an offensive threat. They had a ball in their hands and they were looked at to do the primary brunt of the scoring. So, you know, it's most of our natures to have the ball. And we figure out how to play without it, figure out how to fit into an offense and what our niche will be in the NBA world to keep a job. But, you know, it is hard to make that adjustment sometimes and just hang out, hang out, hang out, hang out, hang out, hang out, hang out.

22 have gone, and now you got it with two seconds. You just got to raise up and shoot it. You brought up just a great point, interesting, like just about young guys in general, where people don't talk about this a lot, but the adjustment that a young guy has to be to be an NBA player. Like, it has nothing to do, with skill set necessarily,

but all to do with mindset, because you just talked about how, you know, all, we always talk about on this pod with the real ones where everybody in the league

will bust your ass, right? Everybody in the league is really, really good at a point in time, which means that, that they were a high usage guy before they got to the NBA

in some capacity, right? Whether it was high school, AAU, college, overseas, whatever, but they were the primary guy.

What is a mindset adjustment that you need to have when you get to a necessary role? Like, what is the, how do you adjust your mind to get to a place to be like, okay, now this is my role. After my whole life, I was getting the ball.

And to some extent, I was the Jordan on my team. You know what I'm saying? I was a first scoring option. I mean, there are a few factors in play there. One, you've got to be smart enough to recognize what a situation already has that you're coming into and where you would fit in to that equation. Is my skill set with the ball good enough to allow me to stay in this lane?

if it is, right? And, you know, there's a need on that team for someone to do that. Like, maybe that can continue to be your role. But first, we've got to be smart enough to identify, right? Like, I identify really quickly. Oh, shit. In Philly, like, I came out of the CBA. In the CBA, I had been, we had won a championship,

and I had been all rookie team, right? And I averaged, I don't know, 17, 18 a game. I was scoring the ball. And now I'm in Philly and I'm not going to play any minutes and I'm looking around and this whole thing is kind of Iverson-centric and everyone is kind of waiting and waiting. And so it became really clear. Like if you want to stick here, like you're not, you didn't find something else to do. So identifying what it is and then the willingness to give up something to get something. And something I wanted to get was an NBA career.

Yeah. So if that meant me giving up, you know, my pride and saying, hey, man. I'm not as good as score as I think I am, or, you know, maybe I am, but that guy's just that much better at it than me, and it won't be my job. Like, some people, and I could say names, but I won't. I was in a lot of camps with people who just didn't get it. And they wouldn't allow themselves to say, hey, man, I got to give that part of me up to make this team. And they were probably better players than me, but they couldn't fit into the role that X, Y, and Z team was looking for. So a little bit of sacrifice there

And then, you know, just a combative attitude about it. I mean, all right, this is my job. It might not be exactly what I thought it was going to be, but it's how I'm going to stick here. And now I'm going to fight anybody on this roster to do it better than me. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like not literally, but as close to literally as it can be, I'm fighting you every day in practice to make Larry Brown see that I'm better at this than you are. We can still break bread. Like, we'll go out, we'll go shopping and talk some shit and do what we do. But when it's time to lace them up, bro, this is an audition. Every time we come out here, I'm auditioning for these minutes. It's funny. That sounds like when we had JTA on and he was talking about how in the preseason

games when he was first with the Warriors and he was talking about people were all in his mentions or even like in his group chats talking about, bro, why you ain't shooting the fuck? Like why aren't you getting your points? And he's like, bro, like, that ain't my job. That's not, it's not, it's give the ball, give the ball to set, staff, set good screens, and play some defense is what it is.

Yeah, I say to, like, say, is Steve, why aren't you shooting, motherfucker? Why ain't you shooting? Yeah. Because you ain't good enough to be shooting here.

The same reason I ain't shooting, motherfucker. I'm not, that's not my job. Yeah, another, one, the way you were talking just about, like, finding your role

and going into it, that's not only your survival, but that's also how you, you know, you feed your family, right? Because I think about another example. It's not, has to do with finding your role offensively.

But I think about like a guy like Tristan Thompson, right, who came into the league with a, I guess, a certain level of expectations. But I remember Rich Paul saying this, I forget the interview, but I remember him saying, you know, at a point in time, we just told Tristan, you know, how you're going to make your bread? Go get offensive rebounds and go get putbacks and just and just get re, that's what you need to focus on and you will make a lot of money doing that. Do we think when does that conversation,

I feel like that conversation happens a lot. with guys that have good people around him. But when does that conversation have to come around for a young guy? Well, depends on how that young guy came into the league, quite frankly. That young guy was a first round pick. He might get a couple years before he's got to come to grips with something like that. If you're like me where you bounced around the minor leagues for two years, that realization has to happen as soon as you get your first bite at the apple.

You have to be, you got to be ready. And it's really simple. It is, you've now matured from, from a young basketball player to a professional basketball player. You are a businessman now. This is a business decision, right? This isn't my feelings.

This isn't my yes. Because listen, I would be at the University of Miami gym as a young NBA player on the outskirts, making teams, missing teams, and having University of Miami kids that were averaging, I don't know, they were playing on good University of Miami teams. And we're more primary scores in their situation than I was, right?

And they'll talk all kind of shit to you because you ain't in the league scoring 20. But what you, you know, like, but again, brother, you've missed the point here. You're going to be one of those people that's in camp in two years, wondering why I'm sitting over here with my shoes unlaced, watching you battle it out for the last two spots. And I don't average nothing but four points a game because you think you'll come in here in average 18. That's not working, bro.

You got to grow up and learn to be a pro. There's always a preseason guy. where he's just averaging 20 and don't make the team, you know, where he's just, or he's shooting too much and he's just, what is the infatuation with scoring for young guys? What is that? Do they think that that's going to be the, because that's the flashiest stats? It's what we put stock in.

I mean, every highlight you see is you don't see anybody taking a charge as a highlight. People clown you. They call you a flopper. They say you ain't shit. They call you dirty. Like, no one wants to do that. All we see is people getting crossed up and bombing threes and dunking on people. So those are the highlights.

That's what sells. And that's okay because that's part of it, right? Like that's what's selling. But that's why people become infatuated with it. And if you are good enough to earn a living as the primary person in that role, shit, all power to you. But there are way more of us that aren't going to be able to do that than there are. So the rest of us got to figure that out. I tell you one thing.

You know, it's a highlight on Roger Bell's AAU team. A fucking charge. Get out there sacrificing your body. listen, there is a, I got a soft spot for these little dudes, man, because I've worked with some of them since they were in the third grade. When I take them into a gym and parents come over to me or the tournament directors or the national directors, when they come over and they say, God damn, coach, like those little dudes defend.

They defend in multiple ways. They're sound. Like, I haven't seen anybody take that many charges at this level. When they say that shit to me, that makes me more proud. tears are like coming down your face. I shit you not. I have a son on the team. If he scored 40, it would have made me more proud to have heard the other thing

because I think that you're teaching them the right way to play. And I have a, you know, I heard this thing the other day, and I'm sorry because this is, we're early in the NBA season. Forgive me, guys that we're not talking NBA, but this is basketball culture in a nutshell. The problem, see, part of the problem is, and in a Mon Schumper touched on this the other day a little bit, I heard a clip of his is the NBA plays a certain way. free, ball in hands, dancing on it, quick movement. Not a lot of college teams play like that.

More are playing like that now than we're in the past. But most college coaches, when you get there, they want more fundamental shit. They want more, hey, we're going to run these sets. Here's how we're trying to execute that. Look, I need you to give up part of yourself to set these screens. I'm going to need you to take these charges. It's more of that. And then you get to the AAU culture, the YBL shit.

and now you're back to mini NBA type of game. Yeah. Right? And while that's okay for a certain few, the vast majority of the kids, you're just hoping to play college basketball, man. Yeah. Like, ain't nobody playing in the NBA. By do the fucking math, man.

Like, cool. Have it as a dream. Right? But, like, teaching kids to play like NBA players is stupid because the goal should be to get them to college and have him being a functional NCAA basketball player. so they could get out there, you know, they can get a great education, change circumstances around them and their families. And then if they should matriculate to the NBA, that's just icing on the cake.

And so I have a fundamental problem watching some of these teams. I play against them all the time. Kids coming down, they shoot as a team, they shoot 33s in a game, made five. Do you know what I'm saying, though? Like, just no, like you're just, okay, I'm sitting here. We're in sound gap principle man to man. Your fucking offense is to let this kid who's clearly better than any kid on my court, try to beat my kids off the bounce over and over and over again while everyone stands and watches.

Why, everywhere he goes, he's running into help defense. Like, what's he got? You ain't got no other answers? You haven't taught him shit. That's a beef of mine. I'm sorry. I digress. No, no, no, it's fine.

I think that you, we've had, we've touched on this discussion a lot. But I think what gets lost, because we're a big, this error is just a big highlight-driven error in a way that I just don't think we've ever had a highlight-driven error. It's for, you know, every Instagram. or TikTok or anything is a dunk contest, right? Like, oh, what did he do? Look at that. Look at that.

And I think that we forget that, like, you can get that too, but you're going to be so much better when you get the other things in your game, you know? And I think a big example of that. I remember when, you know, I watched Team USA, right?

And you get the highlights of Team USA. You get every, you know, every great basketball playing the world on one team. And I think when, you know, we romanticize the dream team was all these guys that collect. collective talent. But what we don't glamorize is like, yo, they were actually a team. And when Team USA kind of devolved into a lot of one-on-one guys and even in the late 90s, right, or the early

2000s when Team USA was having their troubles, it was a lot of one-on-one guys playing basketball. And you go back and you see when they build the redeemed team up, they're not necessarily building a team that is going to be every franchise star, super, super, you know, and you see, when they build the redeem team up, star on the team, right? It was the Andre Iguodalas, the Michael Reds, the Tashon Prince's on that team that really helped out. Now, is Tashon Prince like a super duper star? No, but he's a star.

For context, like when they were making that team, they approached me as a potential Which team? Which invite that when Coach K took it over? Oh, I guess like 040, 06, 05, 4. Yeah, that redeemed team, right? Is that what they were calling themselves? Like, they approached. me, I'm pretty sure Bruce Bowen, Kirk Heinrich, like about going to training camp.

Not saying I would have made that team, but I had already played for the Virgin Island, so I couldn't even accept the invite to go, but they were looking for pieces to your point, right? They were looking for more than just like a star. They wanted, they were looking for people that would go in there and do what we're talking about. Logan, give up. Hey, man, I don't need to shoot that shit. Yeah.

And like we talk about like even the 2012 team, like we talk about, you know, guys that sacrifice superstars. like Russell Westbrook on 2012 team, what was he? They didn't say, we don't need you to score Russell. Go fucking lock down every other guy in the world. And that's what he did. And I think we're getting away from that from our young guys. It's like, yo, you can score.

Russell Westbrook still average a triple double like three years later. You can still do that. But on certain teams, you need to be a certain role. Like, everybody ain't going to be LeBron and Kobe on that team. I agree 100%. And again, it's fundamental. and I believe it starts from what we celebrate, what we put stock in as the adults,

as the media companies, as the people trying to sell the product. And I know that there's no real true way around it. I would just say that I see it all the time. To build a team, you have to ask some people to sacrifice. You have to ask them to give up part of themselves for the best teams, right? So that the person that's better at that job description

than you are can flourish in that role. And you've got to support them. However, whatever that looks like at whatever sport you're playing, but for us to be the best version of ourselves, I need you to do that. And then you do it and you don't celebrate the person that made the sacrifice. You celebrate and applaud the person who is the best scorer on the fucking team.

And so there's no value associated to the job that the supporting cast did. So that supporting cast members sitting around like, well, fuck. I mean, I mean, I get like there's nothing in that. Like, yeah, we won. You know, I didn't even get a good job or, hey, man, like none of this could have happened without your sacrifice, none of that. And so it doesn't become an important thing, especially when that's hammered in over the course of time. And so I think at least what I try to do,

and I see it missed all the time, like my young son, Zen, you know, my young son Zen last year on his football team was, and I'm going to put them on blast because I don't give a fuck. He was one of their primary backs, right, and one of their primary receivers. And so this year, you know, Zen's not a speedster. He ain't slow, but he's not a speedster.

So this year they come in. They beg for him to come back. He comes back. back, and I don't know what happened to their offense, but they just make him a blocking back. He's a fullback. He's a fullback, and he just blocks. He's knocking his head the whole game. Me and his mom didn't love it, but like my conversation with Zen is, hey, bro, that's your role. They think that that's how you're going to help this team the best. So let's shine in that role, dog. Let's go out back and we're going to work on getting on blocks, and we're going to work

on how to square a guy up and break down and, you know, get two hands in tight. And let's do this. Man, let's be the best that we can in that role. So you do that over and over and over and over. again and no one ever says, hey, bro, Zen, dog. Hey, man, this shit couldn't work without you being in them trenches blocking the shit out of anything. Or, hey, let me throw you a random carry dog so we can show our appreciation in that way. And so guess what happens to a kid like Zen after the course of like eight games and you're not winning, mind you?

Guess what Zen starts saying? Buck this. I want to do that shit. Oh. You know? And so, again, the adults have to be smarter if you don't want them to be selfish, entitled brats in any sport, because that's what we have at the highest levels of sports. Most of them are brats.

Been celebrated since they were 12 years old. Think their shit don't stink. Don't fucking treat them like that. Yeah. You know, like treat the ones that are doing it the right way, the ones that are out there sacrificing and they're, that have great character and maybe they're not the star. Treat them the right way.

And that'll permeate. That sends a message to the whole team. Like, oh, shit. Like, I don't have to be the greatest player on this team to get some respect or to be showed love or to garner any sort of like a claim? Nothing. I could be a really good role guy, and we don't do that enough. And so you get a culture of kids that don't have any interest in doing that shit.

Say a quick break. We're going to go around the league. The NBA season is underway, and it's the perfect time to download FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook, because right now, new customers get a no-sweat first bet up to $1,000. Plus, Fan Duel is the only sports book that's giving all customers three months of NBA league pass when they make a $5 bet on the NBA. So for tonight,

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Yo, Roger, Logan, what's up? First time caller, long time baller. See, I know the Lakers are tripping, but that Laker propaganda is never slipping. Where's the Lakers exceptionalism on this podcast, fellas? We need it. Where is it? I'll take my answer off the air. And we are back.

I was looking in the Real Ones outline last night. and Third Ikeye just came out with a great segment. So it's a segment we like to call Imposter Syndrome. In this iteration of the episode, we have a list of teams with Roger's favorite stat lines. A list of teams that are in the top ten of defensive and offensive efficiency. It's jokes, but look that shit up. Look that shit up. Hey, hey, it's not jokes if it's real.

It's a joke. But I have four teams. We're going to just discuss them. See if they're real or not. Let's go with the Cavs, who lost last night in Sacramento. They are in the top 10 in defensive and offensive efficiency. J.B. Bickerstaff's doing a really good job down there. But they're hitting a bit of a tailspin.

Are they the real deal? Or are they going to be an imposter going into the back of the season? Let's define that real quick. Real deal, meaning, are we talking playoff team? We're talking about playoff team. But I was going to say, potential, are they the real deal in terms of consistency? Is this going to be a consistent throughout the season? I don't think they wind up top 10 in both offense and defensive efficiency at the end of the day.

I do believe them to be a solid Eastern Conference playoff team. I think they are for real. I think they are a year away from taking another step in this conversation, if that makes sense. But I think they're for real. Yeah. Yeah, I think they're for real as well. There's a couple moves, I think, to be made on that roster. You know, I think that they're not a finished product yet.

but I do think that they do have a chance and the reason why is because at the moment they have on the offensive side they have three guys that can get you buckets right they have three guys and they have Darius Garland who did not play well at all last night but it can can get can score a really good offensive player you have Donovan Mitchell

you also have Karas Levert who can who got buckets last night and the reason why I think that they can evolve into this and make be a consistent balance team is because while they have that offense, they do have really great defensive potential when you talk about a guy like Jared Allen or a guy like Evan Mobley who can be a rim protector. And speaking of charges, how we talked about last sacrifice in your body like we did last

segment, Kevin Love, who will take a charge and it will play funnily, mentally sound basketball. I do think they have the potential, but I'm with you, Raj. I do think that this team probably a year or two away, they got some growing pains to have. But the forefessional thing is they're young and they have the opportunity to grow together. Absolutely. Yeah, I do like this Cavs team and I do like what they're doing. I don't think I've ever been highly critical of Dan Gilbert and company, but there's stability there right now. They are stable at the top for whatever that's worth. And Kobe and the messaging and the vision seem to be in line with ownership. And so for those reasons, too, I think that they're going to be

fine. For those reasons you're in. Let's let's let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, go take a, you ready to take a trip down to Sky Harbor? Yeah. Oh, let's, yeah. You know what I'm saying? You ready to go to Maricopa County? We're going to go to, we're going to go talk about the Sons, who are also in the top 10 of offensive and defensive efficiency. I will go first with this one. I think that this has a chance to carry just this season. I think that they're a team with offensive firepower and also have a rim protector and DeAndra Aiden.

The problem is the Sons haven't consistently found a guy that's, they, they don't have enough depth in their front court for my liking, right? Like, and the guy that they do have in the front court, who is their rim protector and Aiden consistently gets into foul trouble. Like, if you want to beat the Sons, you just attack Aiden over and over and over, get in the post-playoff series. So that gives me pause, but I do think that consistently throughout the regular season, they can't continue to be a top on both ends of the floor.

And the postseason, they, I'm having trouble seeing that they can continue to do that and carry that into that. Am I wrong on now? What do you think? No. Yes and no. I think it's real. I think it's sustainable. I think that's played itself out in years past. They have the formula in place for that. I do agree with you in terms of, I think they need a piece. It's going to be interesting, like the Jay Crowder situation. Yeah. And I too believe them to be a move away from putting your fears to bed, if that makes any sense at all. I think there's a lot. I think there's got to be something done to fortify a little bit. But I think they're for real.

It's going to be interesting, again, how they manage Chris Paul and what his health looks like down the stretch. If there's gas in the tank, come playoff time. But I think they're for real. Let's go to Toronto. The Raptors are one of those teams right now that are just there. They're always just going to be there. Pascal Seacum is a dude.

They have just a really, really good, solid team. No matter what their record is, you're going to feel to Raptors. Do you think that they have sustainability? Oh, yes, they do. Yes. Okay. They are a well-coached, consistent bunch. They've got more offensive talent than they get credit for.

But they are long and rangy defensively with Swiss Army knives. Yeah, they're sustainable, man. And, you know, again, just look at it. It's consistently been that. They've been good. This isn't like I popped up out of nowhere and I'm sitting here with a team that's ahead of schedule and I'm trying to figure out whether or not they can sustain that. or if they're two years away.

Like Toronto just keeps doing this. No matter who you give them. Now, you know, do they have the Kauai Leonard type player to get them over the hump in a playoff series? You'll hop on my back. I'm going to carry you guys to this. That remains to be seen. But in terms of, is this for real?

Can they keep that up? Are they a well-rounded, well-coached, solid team with pieces? Absolutely. You brought up the Kauai thing. And I was going to bring that up right after you finished. But damn, I just wish Kauai State in Toronto, man. I know hindsight is 20-20, but it's like, Like, that was the, if you were to try to get the perfect team to compliment Kauai's game,

also his load management, whatever you want to call it, a team that can sustain without him, not to say that the, not to say that the clippers can't sustain without Kauai Leonard, but like, I still feel like if Kauai stays on the Raptors, they're a perennial 55. five win team just because and he could carry over the hunt and they are threatened the Eastern Conference every time and damn that just feels like a waste that the Raptors

are just so good and such a solid team and they don't have that guy for whatever reason. That's tough. It is tough. It's a great city. It's a great town. I think there are some things I was never really recruited by them. I was never a target of theirs so I can't speak from experience about there being

apprehension because of either taxes or Also, the feel like you don't matter and within the grand scheme of the NBA, right? Like you just feel like you're on the other side of a border and it's just a big, that, it's not so much now, but it used to be like that, used to feel like that for a Raptors team.

I can't really speak to that though because it wasn't my experience and I never played or was recruited to go there to have to make that decision. But for whatever reason, they seem to, you know, getting that guy via free agency has been elusive for them.

So, you know, yes, in retrospect, that Kauai was a great spot to be in, buddy. I'll tell you what, if I'm a superstar basketball player, I want to go to Toronto. I want to go to Toronto, bro. Toronto is it. If this is a recruiting prince for the Raptors, I don't give a damn. Go to Toronto, dog. Because not only are you in a great city.

Great is an understatement with Toronto. Obviously, this is my favorite NBA city, but you got the whole country behind you, bro. It's just amazing. It's an amazing, it's an amazing sports country, but also an amazing, sports town. And like, remember I went there for the finals. And it's like a hockey environment, but for a basketball game. Raptors games are amazing. Like, you know that hockey games. There's just a different roar in the arena when something good happens. It is, it is like that in Toronto every game. Great building to play in. Great. Those 01 series between Vince Carter,

and I am going to just reduce it to Vince Carter versus Alan Iverson were some of the best environments to watch a basketball game and I do mean watch because that's what I did. I sat right there on the floor with my Snickers bar and watched two of the best offensive players go at it for seven games. It was fantastic. That is an electrifying building to play in. Man, we'll have that story, Tomoraza,

his Toronto stories if he wants to at some other point in the podcast in the future. Last on this on this imposter syndrome, the Utah Jazz. Shout out to Utah Jazz, who just defying logic and expectations at the same time, beat the Hawks last night

and honestly a phenomenal game. Shout out to Lori Marketing, who is earning that 23 every single night all the time. I'm going to say that this is not sustainable because it can't be. There's no way this can be. I feel like, and I'm not even reporting anything,

the logical thing to do is trade everyone next month. That's what it is. So I don't think this is going to be the same team. And I mean, if they have the same goals they set out to, I don't think this is going to be the same team in a month or two. So for those reasons, I think that I'm out. And for those reasons, I'm out. Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with you again.

I mean, again, I don't like agreeing with. you over and over and over again. We've been agreeing a lot on this podcast. It's been a little bit too nice. I know. Fuck you. I know. Yeah, thank you.

I appreciate that. Yeah, man. A great story. And I mean, no disrespect. And I'm trying to take away anything from what they're doing out there in Utah. I love that shit. I love underdog stories. I love people staring into the face of, of no faith in them and just saying, fuck you.

Hey, watch this. I love it. But ultimately, we are only, what, 12 games in? and I don't think they can keep pace. I don't know that the jazz make a move. I know culturally what the last regime and what Jerry stood for. They were trying to win regardless

that tanking shit was not in his DNA. You know, he was just a, we're not doing that type of dude. I can't really speak for this regime, this coach, like where they are as a franchise. So they could very well firesell it and just kind of do their best to ensure their best shot at Webbenyama.

I don't know. But even if they don't, I imagine this team doesn't wind up as a real, real threat. A good story, a tough team to play. Like, you know, obviously they're winning some games, but I don't think they're a threat to necessarily, you know, be a top 10 in both categories at the end of the day. Sorry, Salt Lake, I apologize.

Park City, I'm still hoping to see you guys over winter break. You ain't got to do that. They know what it is. They know we got big love in Salt Lake. We got big love in Salt Lake and we reciprocated. You know we got real love for Salt Lake, dog. It ain't got nothing to do with that. It has nothing to do with that.

It's facts. It's facts. It's facts. Yeah, you're right. You're right. They know we love him. But yeah, I mean, you got to know that, right? If you're a jazz fan, you're fucking know you.

You know you're playing with, like, I mean, this is great while it lasts, but you know. Like, there's this YouTube video because I'm trying to get a Victor Wimbidiyama, get his name right, right? I've got to make sure. Like, there was a time where I didn't know how to say Janus, I did a cumbo. I know how to say it now. The reason why I do that is just, I go on YouTube sometimes and I just like look at the pronunciation, listen to pronunciations of names. and there's this one YouTube video

about like that's doing the Victor Wimbunyama just saying the proper way to say it and the dude's voice on there it sounds like fucking the quiet storm it's Victor Wemba it's in a French accent I'm like yo you need to relax you go to Virgo down there

yeah yeah for definitely like most interesting man vibes in the Hineken commercials There's definitely those vibes. If they came to a little bit of the league. LeBron James' growing issue says he might try to play on Friday, but we know LeBron and the growing. Shut it down.

I mean, not for the season, but until that thing is unequivocally, that can't linger. I mean, not at his age. You don't want a groin festering and lingering, and nope, make sure that's right. We haven't talked about the Lakers in a while, and that was by design, but I peaked at the Lakers game yesterday.

and just uninspired. It's just, it's tough to watch that. You can tell when a team does not like playing with each other. Just, I saw it opening night watching the Lakers, and then you just continue to just see it. There's no inspiration.

And AD got outplayed by Zubotch, and it was just so evident. It was just not a great time for Lakers basketball. The group chat would be third icon, Kern was just so depressing. It was just very just depressing. What's my dog doing? What's Brody doing out there?

He's doing all right. He's smiling. That's fine. That's cool. I guess, yeah. I mean, I guess in everything, everyone wanted to roll it all up

and hanging on Russ's neck, right? It's not Russ's fault, though. It's definitely not Russie. It's the whole team. I've been tried to tow jell. I don't know if you saw this, but like Miles Turner,

basically he went on the woe spot and was basically marketed himself for why the Lakers to just trade for him. If I were there, I might take a swing at it. Miles Turner saying, hey, you know who I would take a swing out if I'm the Lakers? Man, this is really, really good big out of Indiana. His name is, his name is Miles Turner. You should check him out.

It's like reverse tampering. Yeah, I've never seen that. But it's not great in Lakerland. Also, we talked about Utah. You see what's going on in Minnesota right now. And I, like, I don't want to, I love Minnesota. Minnesota is also a city that I love with a big part of my heart, right? Just love it.

Love going there every time I go down there. But just can't get out of their own way. And now that trade is looking way more, just so terrible by the day. And I don't know if you saw this yesterday. And this has nothing new with the trade per se, but just shows how bad it is in Minnesota. DeAngelo Russell gets called into sub-in. I forget for who. It doesn't really matter.

But it's in the middle of a free throw. He's supposed to go into the game. Does not go into the game. So the Minnesota Timberwolves are played five on four against the Phoenix Suns. And they give up a corner three. You know what? Pat Bev. All right?

I bet he hasn't gotten a lot of love from us. No, but I will say. Well, because what he represents, I don't know that the Lakers necessarily need. But the Minnesota Timberwolves do. 100%. Do you know, like you got LeBron doing a lot of that stuff. Those are older, more veteran cats. Like, LeBron steadies that shit.

But Pat Bev and that, yo, let me call a huddle every 32.7 seconds. Like, that might work for them younger cats. You know, like there's a level of stability and accountability and just a voice that's consistent. I will say this. This is my observation from watching Pat Bev play last night. I might want him on my team, but I don't want him playing a lot of minutes. I want him to be at the end of the bench with an arm around a player and saying, this is what you do and just sprouting out lessons.

There is room in this league for a Pat Beverly. I know that there's a lot of real ones out there. Like, look, what the fuck you're talking about? There's definitely room in this league for Pat Bev. I think they just, it just doesn't need to be on the court as much as it is right now. And perfect scenario for the Minnesota Timberwolves to have a Pat Bev on their team right now, but it's just, it's tough. It's tough out there. And I don't think it's getting any better. It's, it's tough. All right. Last, let's, let's, let's go to LaGuardia real quick.

And, you know, I don't take the subway to Brooklyn where they hired Jack Vaughn or they, not hired Jack Vaugh, but they said Jack Vaughn is going to be the head coach. I think for this season and also going into next season. And with the fact that a lot of people within the Nets organization just basically was like, and I think the league had something to do with it as well. I'll be hearing that MAUDoka was just a non-starter, right? Just in general. Like, especially what's going on right now and just a lot of different factors

that we've talked about in previous pods, just was a non-starter. So now you're left with Jack Vaughn, who was on your staff before you, you hired Steve Nash. And was the head coach before you hired Steve Nash. And all I keep thinking about Raja is why I go through all this trouble to get a new coach and do all these things to go back back to where you start.

Yeah. I mean, what do you want me to say about it? I don't know what to say right now. What are you doing? I don't know what to say, bro. I just know it's on the rundown and we got to talk about it. I'm pulling for you, bro. Ditto.

That's what I got. Hey, brother, listen, I hope you rides above the dysfunction. I hope that you are the stabilizing, you know, force that brings it all together, man. I hope you're the flux capacitor, man. You make it all work. I hope, dog. Like, I don't know. I don't know.

I know that was a serious thing. I wasn't expected to hear flux capacitor. Like, I hope that's what you are, man. They won last night, though. They beat the Knicks really handily. It was one of those, like, you know, those interim coach beatdowns where, like, we got a new coach. They just couldn't miss. Yeah.

And it's just out there. right now, it's Katie and a bunch of guys. Katie's still really, really, really good. It's just rough to watch them. But, you know, we'll see what happens. I want a positive note. Let me touch on a positive note real quick. Let's get it.

You know what I did last weekend? What did you do, bud? I took my son, Dia up to visit Notre Dame. It was a game day visit. They played Clemson at night, 730 in South Bend. We flew into Chicago. It was a good boy's trip. We had a good time and didn't really know what to expect.

Notre Dame was a beautiful place. We visited this summer. Everybody was super nice, like their staff. I think they got it moving in the right direction. We left there with nothing but good positive vibes this summer. I was not ready for what happened last Saturday. I've been blessed. Let's do it.

No, no, no. I've been blessed, man. Obviously, athletically, to see some really cool shit, I played in finals. I played in Western Conference, Eastern Conference finals. I've gone to huge European soccer matches. I saw Italy play the year after they won the World Club. In Italy, there were fires set in the stands, literal fires. I've been at some really cool shit athletically and non-athletic events.

The scene that was Notre Dame last Saturday is a top five for me. Oh, it was unreal. It was pretty magical, man. I don't have the words for it, dude. My son just kept looking around. and I was like, I just saw it in his space and he's not affected easily. Like, it's why a lot of people say he's good at what he does

is because like he's never really too high with the highs or low with the lows. He's just kind of like right here. But even in his space, I could see, I was like, oh, this shit's affecting him. Yeah, this is pretty cool. I'm like, I remember right now. I was like, let me check on him.

A guy raw, right? Let me go check in on him. See how he's doing because I know you and Dia were really, really excited for the Notre Dame visit. I know you guys are really, really fucking juice. So let me see what happens. And true roger fashion, like, yo, how's it going?

True rise of fashion, no words, just a video. A video of people rushing the stands. And like, I see Dia just looking around. Like, you see Dia briefly in the video, just looking around like, oh, shit. And, like, then I see the video go around. Like, you, I feel like you left your son. Did you leave your son, bro?

Did you leave your son? Because it felt like Dia was gone and you walked somewhere. He got swept into the crowd. That's what it felt like because, okay, so just, I don't know, we're not putting the video off, but like, I'm just going to describe this thing to you. I see Dia for a second as the, as the clock is going down and the people are rushing. And then I see him looking around. And then I just see you and I just see kids that aren't yours running around and you getting swept up.

How was it? Did you lose your son and how did you find your son in the midst of all of this? Yeah, I did. I lost my son for about 25 seconds. I was looking kind of around. He was in frame. And then the buzzer went off and I quickly paned to the stands where people were going to be pouring onto the field because I was on the field. And I swung back.

This was in a matter of like two and a half seconds. And when I swung the phone back, Dia was gone. The crowd had swept him out to like where the players were at midfield. So I mean, split second decision to make. I decided I would walk in a straight line from where I saw him last. And about 25 seconds later, I saw that big ass head of hair. And I kind of made him out. Were you like Dia is going to be fine?

I'm in this moment too. we will meet up when we meet up? Or is there a little panic as a parent? Where were you as a parent in that moment? There was slight panic because neither one of us had any juice on our phones, right? Like we had to power them down. But the recruiting director had given pretty strict instructions as to where you would meet after this took place. Because you kind of almost had to go onto the field and storm the field with the kids because you couldn't go against their flow to get out.

Sure. So it was almost like you had to get into. the mix just to get out of the stadium. So I knew I'd see him again. You had to ride that wave. You had to go with the wave. You couldn't go against the way. And it was so, like, you know, you're in Miami.

I love Miami, dude. I mean, but usually in a scrum of however many thousand of people, some knucklehead is going to say some stupid shit. You're going to wind up in a pushing. So, like, you know, even if you're trying to be like, yo, my bad dude, someone's going to misinterpret and now you're MFing each other. This was the most polite, gracious crowd I've ever been in. I promise you.

Everyone was like, oh, no, sorry, my bad. Oh, go ahead, bud. Like, oh, that's my son. Hey, oh, come here, buddy. Come through here. It was just an incredible vibe, man. And, yeah, Notre Dame, like, hey, that is a special, special place. I've heard it.

I've never really experienced it live. Can't speak to every game being like that. But last Saturday. First Clemson. First Clemson. That was a fucking experience. Are you saying as a longtime resident born and raised in Miami-Dade, the Notre Dame fighting out?

Are you a real one of the week? Oh, that's facts. Notre Dame fighting an Irish recruiting department, coaches, real ones in a week. Not even a question. I was, yes, I was doing that even before you led me there. You liked that segue though, right? Yeah, I was dope.

You're a pro, son. A pro. You see the fucking vibes. So, real one of the week for Rau-Rah, Notre Dame football. Yeah, facts. Touchdown Jesus in particular. My Rewan of the week, go with one of the homies. Josh Gundleman.

He is a, used to be a writer on a John Oliver, also writer on Deez-Zamero. He was also a stand-up comic. He is on the 1900s tour around the country. I went to go see him at a Cobbs Comedy Club, legendary Cobbs Comedy Club

in San Francisco, and he was great. Also, friend of the show, been a real long-time supporter of the Real Ones pod for a long time since we came on. And so I just want to give a shout-out to him as our real one of the week.

Dude was fucking hilarious. And also, secondary ruin of the week, the chicken tenders Cobbs comedy. Oh. Dog, listen.

Listen. You don't need to get any. We got the, the chicken tenders and the garlic fries. Listen, you don't need anything else there, bro. You don't need anything else. Rosemary.

Rosemary on the garlic fries? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was a time. It was a fucking experience.

Shout to Josh and shout out to Cobb's comedy. And that's our real one of the week, man. Nice Thursday show, bud. This was fun. Yeah. Had a good time with you, buddy. Continue. Let's go do it.

Man, continue to do it. Man, this has been another edition of Thursday, Real Ones. A little housekeeping. Only one show next week. And we'll go from there. This is also News to Raja who was shaking around and doing a little Harlem shake. We'll see you guys next week. That has been another edition of Thursday, Realwoods.

Talk to you soon. Holla. Peace.