The Ringer NBA Show - Are the Spurs Legit Title Contenders? | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck are back with another edition of Real Ones, and they examine how the Spurs snapped the Oklahoma City Thunder's 16-game win streak in the NBA Cup semifinals. Victor Wembanyama returned with a vengeance, netting 22 points and nine rebounds in just 21 minutes of action. The guys ask whether the young and up-and-coming Spurs are actually ready to win now. Should the Spurs make a run at Giannis Antetokounmpo if the Bucks are open to trading him? Plus, the mailbag! (0:00) Intro (1:43) FanDuel ad break (2:33) Are the Spurs going to the NBA Finals? (20:28) Amazon Prime ad break (21:01) How the current Spurs compare with teams of the past (44:30) Mailbag https://www.theringer.com/2021/02/17/nba/jeremy-lin-g-league-santa-cruz-warriors-linsanity Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja BellProducers: Victoria Valencia and Clifford AugustinAdditional Production Support: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out ⁠rg-help.com⁠ to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Shopping. Streaming. Celebrating. It’s on Prime. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? Ruins. Logan Murdoch here, Raja Bell and Howard Beck, and a few great show for you guys today. We talk about the ramifications of Saturday nights NBA Cup game between the Oklahoma City Thunder and the San Antonio Spurs.

What does this mean for the Spurs? I mean, I know earlier in the season we talked about how the Spurs, are they a move away? Are they ready for this stage? Are they a contender? I was very high on the Spurs. As you guys all know, Wemby for MVP. That was my pick.

And maybe we have time to do it. Probably not. But hey, still MVP right now in my heart. But we talked about his trajectory. We talked about team building as a whole. We got into an old school discussion on what works for team building at the stage that the San Antonio Spurs are in and the Oklahoma City Thunder are in. What are the pitfalls of these types of ascensions?

What can break them apart? And most importantly, how do you keep a dynamic going over decades? So it was really, really fun. Roger Bell has a great perspective on this. Howard Beck, as you guys know, legend has covered a lot of these teams, has been around the league for a long time, has been around teams that have been both great with team chemistry, not so great with team chemistry, and still one and also not great as an organization as a whole and has done a lot of losing.

So really, really fun show. Also got to your mailback questions, which was really good. We talked about Jeremy Lynn. We talked about Chris Paul as well and his future. All that and more ruins mailbag at gmail. Real Onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real onesmailbag at gmail.com. We will answer your questions next Tuesday as well. I think that's it.

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man all that i have been thinking about over the weekend since saturday is this oklahoma City San Antonio game where Wemby was fucking awesome. As I guess expected after coming off of a calf injury and missing like however long he missed the weeks he missed. And to come in off the bench and deliver 22 points, nine rebounds to assist in 21 minutes was crazy. But I think we also got the game of the year here where the San Antonio Spurs pretty much, I don't know if they laid the blueprint to stopping OKC necessarily.

because I don't think everybody else has the personnel necessarily to accomplish what they accomplish defensively, but they put the clamps on OKC in a way that no team has done all season long. And it was a sight to behold. And I'm going to start with Howard here. We talked earlier in this season, at least the question was out there. What is the spurs sealing this season? What are they going to do? What should they strive to achieve this year with the young players that they have, with the multitude of points. point guards that they have, should they make a trade? Should they think about moving off one of

those point guards? Right now, it seems like this team has a ceiling, or at least they think they have a ceiling of trying to go to the NBA finals. Are the Spurs ready to go right now? Woo boy, let's just jump right to it. Let's fucking do it. Why not? Dude, I mean, listen, there were a 34-win team last season, and granted, they spent a lot of it without Wemby. because of the blood clot issue. They spent half of it without Deer and Fox because I hadn't traded for him yet. And then Deer and Fox got there and got hurt. So we really did not know what to expect from them because it was now going to be,

presumably Fox and Wembe from day one. Then they have the great fortune to be able to draft Dylan Harper. But what's, you know, how's the rookie going to do? What's DeFon Castle's encore going to be after rookie of the year? After 34 win season, given everything, I thought, you know what? Let's tap the brakes a little bit. preseason if you had asked me, I'd said, look, if they got to the six seed somehow and got a guarantee playoff spot, that would be an incredible achievement for a really young team that's still on their way up. Yes, Wembe is defensive player of the year material. Yes, he's even potentially MVP material, but I don't know if they'll win enough. Like six seed seemed like a good, reasonable, even optimistic ceiling given how tough the West was. And if they were just in the playing and won one of the playoff spots through the playing, cool. Awesome. Great. Spurs. You're right on schedule, man. You're a young team on the rise.

It's December 16th and guys like, you know me. I am not exactly prone to hyperbole. And this is not just based off of Saturday's game, although a lot of it is certainly based off of Saturday's game. We shouldn't put too much on it. But on that result and on talent alone and on the impact that Wembe makes and how clear that was in less than 21 minutes of play, I don't want to say contender, like they're a team that is going to take out the Thunder in a Best of Seven series in the spring. I'm going to say they're a contender in the sense of Oklahoma is still in their own tier, but I'm putting San Antonio next to Denver and Houston now.

They are right there. They have a little less experience than those teams, a lot less experienced than Denver, a little less than Houston in terms of especially postseason experience. But shit, on talent alone, Wemby, Castle, Fox, Harper, good supporting players, Vassell, Kelton Johnson. I don't think it's a stretch. I don't think it's crazy. I think they have top four potential in the West.

And I'd put them a notch ahead of the Lakers based on a bunch of things, not least of which is that the Spurs can play elite defense. And so far, the Lakers have not shown us that ability. And it's something that J.J. Reddick's been harping on a lot recently. So yeah, that's where I'm at, guys. Preseason, thought they might be a nice playoff team, lower tier playoff team. As of right now, stay healthy. I think they're top four team in the West.

And I think they're among the teams that can really give the thunder fits in the spring, if not potentially even beat them. I don't know necessarily beating them over a seven game stretch, only because of what you talked about with the experience level, right, Howard, where, and we've talked about this with other teams. And Wimby actually even talked about it after the game where he says the thing that they have on us is reps, right? And having attention to the little things and attention and love for the little things that we need to get to in that level. It was very self-aware, not only for himself but for the team.

But I was really high on this team, Raja. I was really high on the ceiling of this year's Spurs team. Specifically Wemby, right? I thought that he could figure it out to have that next step in his trajectory, especially after last season because they did have the 34 wins, but I think that has a big asterisk and big caveat on it that Wemby missed the last stretch of the season with his injury. One thing that I did love about this team, though,

is that the argument for them beating the Thunder Rajah, and I want to get your take on it from watching that game, is just the defensive acumen and how they match up with the Thunder, right? Where there were times, and I've watched the Thunder quite a bit this season, in person where the Thunder can kind of just lean on you offensively because they can get easy shots because they have so many smart players who can pass the basketball who can who can cut at the right time who can they all know their roles around Shea but when I watched the game

on Saturday they the Thunder were acting a little bit out of character down the stretch right there was a I think of the last three minutes there was a play where Shea is I for got who he was sizing up. But with seven seconds on the shot clock, he basically just settled for a step back three, which is so unlike him, right? And then when he played against Fasel, and they put Bissell on him, he's trying to do the say shit where he's like dribbling a lot and trying to pull his angles. And Fasel was like, nah, I don't want any of that.

And then you put the wimby part of this part of the equation. He had a play, Raja, where he contests a J-dub shot in the lane. and J. Dub just throws it up over Wimby and it gets to Hartenstein not because he passes to Hartenstein but because he just shot it so far that it was an airball and somehow Wemby turns around and blocks

Hartinstein shot when he gets it just turns around in the paint. It was incredible. But for the defensive vacuum, what did you see and how can they match up with Oklahoma City? And could, do you think at this stage that they can beat them

or get to the finals based on their experience level? Let's see. I would agree with Howard. Like I have them in a in a tier below below OKC, right? Like I know they beat him and I'll get to the defense in a second. But I think I think I would put them OKC, Denver, probably San Antonio, and then the Lakers. I would agree with Howard. I would just add to the experience of it all, Mitch Johnson, as, as part of that. Like, he's also not as experienced as his counterparts in that space. So, like, I just think could they push either one of those teams? Absolutely. I would pick one of those two

teams over them in that scenario, right? So, like, could they get to the conference finals? Like, yeah, depending on the draw, maybe. Like, I think they got a better chance with Denver than they do with OKC personally. But, I mean, what they have defensively is a bunch of good guard wing players. lot like OKC in that regard. Like they got a bunch of dudes that are relatively versatile, big, big guards that can switch a lot of stuff and they can stay in front. And you have a human eraser behind you, which again, you know, when we talked about Wembe and all the statistical things that you can actually see their tangible stats for him,

what you can't see and what isn't tangible is what he does to someone's mindset as an offensive player thinking that they can beat their man, but what happens when Wembe comes across? That's just a deterrent for drives, right? Like when you're talking about the Shea play, like, those dudes live on top of the rim sometimes. It just becomes that much harder when you have a Wembe in there. Yeah, but I don't read too much into that game. So, like, you know, I know the episode is about it and stuff, but like, you know, both

teams missed a lot of threes. It was a nip and tuck game. I give San Antonio a ton of credit. I had a schedule for sure, but I don't like read too much into that. You know, like, San Antonio's good, especially when you got Wemby out there. Dary and Fox is playing well. They're a tough team. They're a handful of them in the West.

What I really liked what they did was offensively to OKC, you know, how they really attack those bigs, you know, those bigs that are in drop cover. coverage, like, and they have the guard play to really attack that coming downhill into space when they weren't putting them in pick and roll. They never let those guys sit. You know, OKC's a great help team. They're always like, you know, just, I mean, basically converging on the ball. They used the big and they flared, you know, they flared with their big a lot. They just kept the bigs from OKC occupied in a way that allowed their guards and whatnot to just wreak havoc. So I like the game plan. I still would take OKC. I want to stay on Ms. Johnson.

really quickly because I thought this was a very well it's been a pivotal moment for him all season right like one you you you have your best player go down really early in this season and you find a way to write the shit but going into this game you I thought it was a genius move from him to take wimby off the bench because of just a lot of different factors right you're putting him in a stage like the NBA cup like whatever we say about it is a stage where everybody is watching it is a bigger game it is against an opponent that you kind of get up for you're going to get up for you're going to be a game it's a stage where everybody is watching it is a bigger game it is against an opponent that you kind of get up for and that's really tough recipe for a return game. So to bring him in off the bench in the way that he did, that took a lot of guts that I'm sure in San Antonio, he got a, he got a lot of support from the front office. What did you think of his decision to bring him up off the bench? First of all, I don't know that they publicly said it,

but I'm sure they have him on some sort of minute restriction right now coming back. So some of that was probably in an effort to strategic, have him available to him at parts of the game where he was going to need him. I'm just, I'm guessing at that. That's what my eyeballs told me. But let's say that's not the case, hypothetically, right? We're living in a world where he was fully available for every minute of the game. Well, he had the luxury, you know, to some degree of doing that because they had been playing

well, you know? And so that helps. Like, when they're playing well and you're strategizing in a one game sample size and you're like, hey, if we can come out and play well and be... you know, even is what you would hope, but maybe we're slightly behind as it was. I mean, they had dug a pretty good hole at a point of that game. But like, this is the game plan. We're coming out. I don't know we keep this thing to five, six. Wemby off the bench is an incredibly valuable. He's incredibly valuable anyway, but off the bench, like when, when you've got

to sit like your star and my starters without Wemby were able to keep us, you know, above water, Like that's an incredible luxury to have. But I do think the fact that they were playing well coming in without Wembe allowed him to be able to do that. And I would bet that internally they were like, hey, man, here's a, here's the strategic number we want to have him around. So you figure out how you got to use him, you know, to have him available to you down the stretch. But this is all you get from him. So, Howard, based on that, like where the spurs are right now, a lot of the talk that we also talked about in the preseason was, what do the spurs do? You know our thing on real ones.

It's all about not or pushing the button for a young team, right, going to get a star, right? And they were rumored. I don't know how realistic this was, just reading the tea leaves about making a run at Yannis. I think that was more of a pipe dream than anything from other people that talk about the game and make the fake trades. I don't think that that was ever realistic to, you know, do that. But what do you, how, what does this start mean? specifically this is why I think this is such a big game right because it was a reminder of what they can be as their whole what did this early season tell you about what the spurs should do and ultimately

what do you think the spurs should do during this time because it feels like they should kind of just we got what we got and we should just build what we have right now we got wimbi on a rookie deal let's let's just see what we got and go from there we could tinker as we go but this is a really deep team and a really good team think about where we were in like June for a second, right? Because, Logan, like to put the context back around why all of us doofuses in the media

were speculating about a possible Spurs deal for Janus and all this stuff, at that time, there was reasonable thought around the league that maybe the breaking point was coming soon that Janus might ask out this summer, right? That was supposed to be one of the big stories of the summer. It wasn't, because Janus is still

trying to find reasons to stay, not reasons to leave, which might, I think, still be the case at this moment. So take two things into consideration. We went into the summer with a lot of the league thinking that Janus might be available at the breaking point was coming soon. San Antonio had at that point again, had not had a full season with Wemby and Fox together, had not had Dylan Harper yet, all these other things, all these other factors. And on top of it, when you're talking about who can actually make a good deal for Janus and still have good stuff left to put around him, the spurs were near the top of the list. A lot of extra draft picks, a lot of good young players. They had the means to do it. So it was a reasonable discussion at that time. And I would be the first to say,

like, yeah, they should be right out front in this. But now, today, no. Like, it's, it's, again, it's mid-December. They're 18 and 7. They're 18 and 7 despite Wemby missing 12 of their 25 games. Ridiculous. Real quick. Offensive rating, 7th. Defensive rating, 14th. That's artificially low because of Wemby's absence, I think. Their net rating is 8th.

Those all chart out to be, you know, a top playoff team type numbers. They also, in addition to missing Wemby for 12 games, missed Dylan Harper for 10 and Dyer and Fox for 8. Saturday's game that win against the Thunder was the first time they'd had Wemby, Fox, Harper and Castle together. Two more quick ones.

With Wembe on the court this season, their offensive rating would be 1.15. That would actually be a little bit of a drop from where their offensive rating is otherwise. I think that's an anomaly. But their defensive rating with Wembe on the court this season would be 104. That would be the second best offensive rating in the league

as opposed to the 14th, which they now have. Now, it's dangerous as the analytics guys will tell you to zone in on one guy's offensive and defensive ratings and draw conclusions across the board. But it's a hint of what they could be. Against the Thunder alone, again, small sample size. They were a minus 19 when Wembe was on the bench in that game and a plus 21 with him on the court.

A plus 21 and under 21 minutes. They were a point per minute better than their opponent when Wembe was on the court. I don't want to fuck with any of that, guys. To you a question, I do not want to mess with that. I don't want to break this group up. I am generally of the belief that veterans win championships and youth takes their lumps in this league. But we just saw in the Thunder in June one of the youngest teams, I think the youngest team in like 50 years to win the championship.

We're in a time in this league where I think there's more opportunity even for a younger team because of all the parity. And speaking of experience, Mark Dagnall, 40 years old, Mitch Johnson, 39. Granted, Dagnell's been in that job a little bit longer, six years or so, and Mitch Johnson just took over. But in terms of just like age, age, not NBA age, they're neck and neck. So like, yeah, I mean, all fair, the experience stuff, but like, I would be given runway time, Janus at 31, all these guys in their early to mid-20s, I would have a really hard time now making the all-in move. And I think if I'm the spurs, I'm pulling myself out of whatever Wemby sweepstakes there are to come. I think a lot of teams are going to start doing it. I mean, you're starting to read two leaves there.

Like it's just where we are at as a league right now and just with the salary cap and a lot of those things. And this furs into the league is catered towards building your team from scratch through the draft, through, you know, hitting on ancillary pieces in free agency and then paying your young core. That's what the league is going right now because they legislated out a lot of those star moves and trying to get people in free agency. You can't really get them in free agency anymore and then trading them is just so hard on the future of your team

if you go all in on a superstar. So it's going to be tough. This episode is brought to you by Amazon Prime. The holidays move fast and Amazon Prime keeps you in control with fast and free delivery. We've all been there. Family plans are fluid. Somebody's not coming.

they are coming and you're excited about it. You want to get them a gift so you hop on Amazon Prime. Line that up with their interests and it's easy to do because Amazon has everything. Prime's fast shipping is always there for you during the holidays, especially when it's last minute and it just can't wait. Need that last minute gift or holiday essential. It's on Prime. Head to Amazon.com slash Prime to shop now. Raj, I have a question for you because you are unique to this type of experience. You played against the spurs of old with, with Timmy, with Manu, with Tony, with the guys around them. This seems like we don't know what they're going to be, but this version of the team

seems like building from that same kind of blueprint, right, where you have this generational star in Wimby. And then you have these stars that could be starters other places, right? These wings that could be have a bigger role. De Aaron Fox could have a bigger role somewhere else, right? Castle theoretically could have a bigger role somewhere else. same with Dylan Harper, but they seem to be put into these roles for the greater good of a team. Can you compare and contrast those two groups?

Yeah, yeah, I'm giving it to you right now. No, I'm giving you a home. I'm already answering your question. No, I can't. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. What do you see from this team as opposed to that team? And what would be your advice for this group of young guys right now as they're trying to build a, Spurs team that is similar but in a new age right at this moment?

Yeah, I don't know. Comparing and contrasting them is really difficult. They're playing a different game than the Spurs were playing back then. Let me just say this. This is the way I'm going to choose to answer this question. You said the way the league is set up now for teams to be able to draft, pay their young talent, get some pieces around the edges. win championships. The spurs with the original Timmy, Manu, Tony Park, they were already, that's what they

were doing. Yeah. Right. So like they were ahead of their time. So the team, I mean, reminds me of that team in that way, right? Like those were their guys. They didn't go out, even when you add Kauai to the mix. Like those are their guys. They find them in the draft. They develop them. The chemistry is there. They're raised under the same banner. They understand the culture from the time their pups. You know, so like that, that's very, very similar. That does take a level of sacrifice. We talk about it all the time, right?

It takes a level of maturity of understanding, you know, that we all might have to take a little bit less, not just financially, but in terms of, you know, maybe overall stardom, in terms of maybe, you know, accolades. if you will, to accommodate each other because ultimately the championships are going to be more important for us as a group. You take that for granted because you think, like, duh, everyone's going to have that mindset, but it just doesn't work like that all the time, right? And so I think kind of like OKC in this way, when I look at those guys and I see them and I just see their personalities at interviews and the way they carry themselves, I think they have guys that fit that bill, you know,

but like that's what Tony Manu, to me, were kind of able to do weirdly. Like, Kauai, you know, Kauai was the one that didn't fit in all the way with that as he grew, you know, as a player and as a personality. And then he's proven to kind of be difficult where he's, you know, wherever he's been. But that's what those guys did so well, right? And then they brought in the right Harrison Barnes of the world, Michael Finley's of the world, Robert Orries of the world. Kurt Thomas says they just brought in the right vets,

fill a need, whether that be on the court physically or emotionally, spiritually in the locker room, like finding those pieces. But really, you've developed this from scratch, right? You've drafted it, you've built it, you've given it time to kind of figure out who it is in the league and then you win because of it.

So they remind me of each other, but the spurs were ahead of their time in that they were doing that in a league that was largely based on winning because you went out and got free agents. They were, they were, you know, that's why we thought they were the best run organization, you know, in the league forever. Why do you think, Raja, like we've gotten away from that, right? Where it, and I think about this even with the Sons during your era specifically, there were like Sons guys, right?

You talk about the Spurs guys. You talk about the types of players. I always think about when you brought up Harrison Barnes, I was over here like, oh, yeah, Harrison Barnes has been a spur long before he's even been a spur. Like you always see guys around the league that you think, oh, he's eventually going to become a spur, right? Except Raja, who should have been a spur, but I digress. But what is the importance of having those just type of guys right around the league

that just fit into your program where I feel like a lot of times during my travels, you just see guys that are, you know, we just want them because we look at the talent. It feels like the spurs look at the totality of a player and be like, oh, they can help us. Like Luke Cornett was a spur. You know, like I'm not surprised that they signed him, right? Sure. But like what is the importance of having an identity and making sure that those guys or those players fit into the identity over a long stretch of time? Because I feel like we get away from that a lot.

Yeah, I mean, but look, it's critical to success in a lot of instances to find it, is to be able to find, you know, culturally people that align with what you're trying to do. The first order of business, though, is for an organization to have an established culture and identity, for everybody to kind of understand what this is, what it represents, how we're going to act, you know, how we want to look outwardly facing, you know, the heat or another team that you think of when you think of like culture, right, and the word heat culture. Um, spurs fit that. Um, you know, golden state fits that mode.

So that was like, weirdly, um, not as many teams as you think would, um, have a true identity and culture as an organization. But when you do, I guess it's then easier to figure out who fits with your group, right? And then finding those pieces and when you can find that mixed with real talent, you have a window of opportunity. So, you know, those guys typically are, you know, not limelight-seeking individuals, even if they're Uber stars. They're guys that kind of, like, now, Wembe is unique in that wherever he goes,

he's just going to drive whatever you have going on, like he's an alien. But, like, he doesn't seem to thirst for that. You know, they have guys, you know, and even in their role guys, aren't mega personalities, distractions. They just kind of get it in that way. And it's really important, Logan. I answered it with a lot of words, but it's super important to find the right combination of talent,

but the right combination of people and the right mix of people that actually fit into your culture. It's always, oh, go ahead, right? Go ahead, Howard. No, I was just going to say, like, just coming right off of that, Like, it's really fun to see the parallels in these two teams when they played on Saturday. And we'll be, listen, we've got a nice brewing rivalry between these two teams, I think, based on youth and talent and runway.

Sam Presti, who of course put together this Thunder team is a Spurs disciple, Spurs alum. He brought a lot of that there for better and worse. I will not elaborate. But there's a lot of that same kind of like Spurs culture in the Thunder. right, the professionalism, the steadiness, the, just watching these guys play, like they're just all about the team and about about doing the right thing, making the right play, right? And it's not across the board. It's not 100% of the time. And you're going to have an outlier sometimes or you're going to have a bad game sometimes. But they both, I think, have opted as organizations for high character,

super professional guys. Guys, you never worry about off the court and you even very rarely worry about them doing the right thing on the court. Maybe make a bonehead play now and then, but they're going to get high IQ guys and guys who are about the right thing. It was interesting because Tony Parker was at that game on Saturday. And our buddy Mike Finger from the San Antonio Express News caught up to him. And Tony Parker said, quote, the DNA is still there, meaning like the Spurs DNA from his time. It's the culture and everything we built for 20 years, but it's kind of a modern way, which is kind of what Logan was alluding to. And I just think that's a really great endorsement from Tony Parker and an acknowledgement of it. And he even said, like, talking,

about Castle and Harper. He said, quote, they're so fearless. That's how I was. That's how Manu was. So like, like, there's a, there's a through line. You know, like, these are generations apart. Styles different, generationally different, but like, there is a through line. And I think the spurs, even though Pop has moved on from the bench and R.C. Beaufort has moved on from basketball to the business side. Like, they're still a presence there. And their values and everything that they've established over the last, you know, 25, 30 years. years still matters. And it infuses, I think, everything that Brian Wright does as GM and that Mitch Johnson now does as coach and that these players exemplify. And that's a really rare thing, right?

Like the spurs and the heat are the only ones you could probably talk about that have that kind of through line in terms of culture and values going back that far. So it's impressive. I think that, you know, a lot of, because I mean, you guys brought up the Warriors and you guys brought up, you know, just other teams that have done it. I don't think the Warriors have that established culture, at least anymore. I think that was just, that was a moment in time and it's kind of cratering before our eyes. But I think one of the other things that we see is you have spurts of the culture, right?

And I think the warriors are kind of, I compare them a little bit to Rogers' sons and that you had it for that moment in time, but you couldn't corral it for whatever reason because of egos, because somebody made a trade or something that just, you know, that just, you just kind of poison the well. I think when you see teams like the Spurs and the heat, the things that keep them together is an established figure, right? I mean, it was pop for a long time, right? And his DNA is still there, but it's also R.C. Buford, right?

It's also the ownership, Peter Holt, the ownership of the Spurs as well, right? In Miami, it's Pat. That's the identity. That's the ecosystem. That's what it is. And that takes, you know, there's only so many of those people in the world and in basketball. But when you do have those people, you got to hold on to them and make them want to stay there and make them want to feel that way.

Because one of the things that, you can see it when a team walks into a arena. It's always a difference between either it's a team or it's a family. The latter is the ones that are typically ones that keep success. Because like whenever I see the spurs, you see older players that are like traveling with the team. You see guys that you like I see Sean Elliott. Like I know the spurs are here, right? Like I see so many different figures. Same when I see the Miami Heat.

You see it with the Lakers, but it's a little different because they're just dysfunctional in their own right. But Roger, how important was that like when you were in Phoenix? What was the difference between Phoenix during your time and everywhere else, right? because I think you were coming from Utah, which was also at its time when you left Utah to go to Phoenix. It was an established brand. But like what was Phoenix like that was different than every other stop that you had been at that particular moment? The style of play in Phoenix for me was really selfless. It felt selfless, I should say.

We had people on our team that wanted more. Like it was not a secret. It wasn't always, hey, Steve is the MVP and we're all happy. to play our roles and we're going to be like there were people that didn't always like that narrative but because we played with such a pace at that time everyone ate and because everyone ate we didn't we didn't try to take a little bit off of somebody else's plate so we could eat more for the most part right like we we shared it in that way um i think there was a lot done behind the scenes by mike laurel uh mike and laurel d'antone their staff the colangelo's when they

were there with our families in a way that, that, you know, took what was happening on the court and the success on the court, shared it with our families and incorporated our families into a lot of the things that we did. So it wasn't just about like, yo, me and Eddie House are cool or me and James Jones are really cool. Like, our wives were good together. Like they did things together. We traveled together. So we had a really tight-knit group. We had that in you, Utah too, we were all young and about the same point in our careers, but now we're winning when I get to Phoenix doing it. And believe it or not, man, winning is important. Like you talked about getting one of few guys that have this kind of cachet and ability to drive culture when

you're talking about Pat Riley and Pop and whoever else you might have mentioned in that. But that only lasts so long before that message, you know, starts to fall on deaf ears if you can't produce the wins. Do you know what I mean? So like you got to get to the wins in a way that buys you, like it gets you that equity with people where they're like, okay, like I believe in what you're talking about because we got over the hump. And there it is, right? And we weren't able to do that in Phoenix. And that's why you don't capture it the way you want to capture it. The other thing that those teams do pretty well is when they find that group, they ride with that group. So you get some longevity in terms of your career with that organization.

And the longer you're with your brothers and your family, like the better bond you have, the more, the more you're willing to sacrifice for it to try to win championships or, or what have you. And some of the teams I played on, even Phoenix, like, we moved pieces a lot, you know, and I wound up being moved. It was the right move. But like, that was kind of the culture is like, we were always shuffling. And so, like, you know, those teams tend to, you know, have guys for a while, you know?

and I think that helps too. But you've got a win to be able to do that. So kind of catch 22, right? Or what came first, the chicken or the egg? This is how you know Raj is a really great teammate, by the way. It's been like 15 years or whatever. And he's still not naming names when he says, yeah, some guys wanted a little more.

Some guys might have not have all been like happy go lucky, egalitarian team ball, might have wanted to focus on their stats. And I know exactly one for sure and probably two I could name on the top of my head. But we're going to be nice on the top of the top of my head. We're going to be nice on this podcast. We're not one of those pods, bro.

I'm not, we're not one of those pods. We're here telling the secrets, though. Fuck your clicks. We're out here trying to. Howard, what's the one thing that you've seen throughout your travels that is always kind of undone the, the camaraderie that is required for these types of runs and these types of, you know, the longevity in these types of runs?

What's the one thing that undo, that undo, the undo, undus, that. I mean, it's probably not one thing. It is probably, in most cases, either misfortune, just injury, or yeah, somebody gets a little bit antsy about their numbers or their contract. And it happens, right? Like, obviously, famously, you know, Shaq and Kobe, who I covered for seven years, like, they stay together long enough to win three championships and make four finals in their last five years together, but it always felt like it was on the verge of breaking apart. And there was always rumors of they're going to trade Kobe for T-MAC. They're going to trade Kobe for at one point.

It was Sean Marion and Jason Kidd. Like, could you have imagined that? No. Your career's a little different, Raj, if that one happened. And yeah, there was always like that potential breaking point. I feel like today's NBA is a little different than that. Guys do move around a lot. They move around more.

Stars move around more than they ever. have, but I feel like it's often like the player versus the organization for some, you know, for some reason as opposed to like player versus player. I'm trying to think of like the last time we saw a guy say, I got to move on because I don't probably Kyrie. When Kyrie left Cleveland and ended up being traded to Boston, that's the last one I can remember and I may be forgetting one in between. But that's the last time I remember a guy who moved on for reasons that I would I would loosely throw into the category of ego, right? Like, yeah, I want a championship next to this guy.

Yeah, we've been to three straight finals. I'm going to skip out on the fourth one because I need to be somewhere else. I need, I just, I don't want to be in this guy's shadow anymore. And he gets traded and he misses that fourth run. And maybe that denies them the chance to win another championship for all we know. And it doesn't work out well in Boston and it doesn't work out well in Brooklyn. And it finally works out well for him in Dallas. But like, not a lot's gone well for Kyrie since that move.

I don't know if that should be considered a cautionary tale or not. But I do think, like, it, for young, supremely talented players, as Kyrie is, as obviously Kobe was, as a lot of guys are when you're in the early stages of your career, sometimes the individual stuff matters more than the team success. And that can get in the way. But then you can also just lose like, um, role guys. And especially in today's NBA, this is what we see now, right? Why do we have parity?

because the system's super fucking tight. And if you are not one of the two stars, those guys are going to get their maxes regardless. But if you're the fourth starter or the sixth man or like the super important eighth guy, and I mean this legitimately, like, you know, the eighth rotation guy. And on this team, you're just the eighth guy in the rotation making, I don't know, three, four million. But somebody else is like, we think you could be a starter for us and we're giving you 10.

That breaks up teams too. because all the pieces matter to quote the wire and the title of a book about that show by my buddy Jonathan Abrams. That's what that was. I don't know how I got there. It just kind of came. It just popped. It was funny though. That's a lot of pieces.

It's a lot of pieces. It is a lot of pieces. One of the things when you were talking, the image that I got in my head was one of Rick Mahorn. when he's at the parade of, I think it was the second straight Pistons, when I would have been 89, I believe, one of those championships, right? And then there's an expansion draft happening as the parade is going on. And I believe he went to the Charlotte Hornets. I could be wrong, but it was an expansion draft, and he got drafted by that team.

and there was a sadness that like weeped over everybody right i think we're going to start seeing that and even more in these these uh this new NBA where you talk about the eighth and ninth guy specifically we're probably going to see it on the thunder at a point in time where the the all-important guy maybe is case and uh casein wallis or it's it's wiggins or it's one of those guys and there's going to be that heartbreak from those that eighth or night guy that you just can't afford and that's going to be the consequence of all of this, right? When we talk about the culture and we talk about the continuity of roster building. Shut up.

And you continue to see that. You're going to also see that heartbreak because that's going to be the other side of this, right, where you are building a family-like atmosphere because you do be continued the family aspect, but it's also a business. That's going to be the hard thing, right? Raza, when you start to see these moments of, you know, you see the bus leaving and you can't go with it even though like that you probably want this thing to last forever right and that's going to be the hard part yeah that's always bittersweet man like it's

it's always tough um when when you're losing somebody that's really close to the family right like well i use my son dia right like it's time for him to go like he's he he's done enough like he's put himself in position we are heartbroken that he's leaving but we're happy as hell for him because it's time to go, right? And that's what you get for one of those Casein Wallace's or guys like that. And I think it becomes easier a little bit, Logan, when you know that they're going on to something bigger and better. Like, they deserve their opportunity for that payday, Case and Wallace, right? Like, you guys can't afford them that necessarily integral to what you did. Family like, like no other, but like it's their time.

So it's always going to hurt. But I think in most professional leagues, guys are happy as hell for those dudes, man, because, you know, we're not counting each other's bread, but at the same time, you know, you know what the roster makeup is and the salary cap and how it's structured and who's getting what. And when those guys get their bite at the apple, it's just, it still hurts,

but if you can understand what I'm saying, like it hurts, it's bittersweet because you're happy as shit for those dudes, you know, to go ahead and get their bite. But you're going to miss them for sure. The Nuggets is the one that I finally just remembered, right? Bruce Brown and Jeff Green, were the sixth and seventh man. And they both got paid to go elsewhere.

And the Nuggets couldn't really do anything about it because of cap rules and everything else. I'm sure the nuggets were all happy for those guys. And now Bruce Brown's back with them. But like that's the kind of thing, right? Like, oh, they didn't lose Yokich or Murray or Gordon or Porter Jr. Whatever. But they lost a couple of really important like glue guys and who were part of their

depth. So you have that version. You know, you know, Kauai leaving Toronto is like the anomaly of all anomalies, right? You're the finals MVP. and you're just like, yeah, but I don't want to be in Toronto. I want to be in L.A. And he leaves, right? The Lakers win a championship the next year. And they voluntarily broke it up.

It kept LeBron and AD, but basically got rid of everybody else who was part of that championship. And like, 2021, the Bucks, you know, Chris Middleton, Drew Holiday, Brooke Lopez all start getting old. They, you know, finally move on from Middleton because he's just not the same player anymore. They move on from Drew Holiday, maybe prematurely to get Dame, right? So that's an organizational one, right? So sometimes it's the organization, sometimes it's the players, and it's not always the superstars, and it's not always just ego or contract. It's just things just change quickly nowadays in this league.

And that's why we don't get anybody repeating. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's a motherfucker when you're playing in this league, just for all the things that we talked about. Let's take a quick break. Let's go to the mailback. And we are back, ladies and gentlemen. we have our buddy, our producer, our ace. Cliff Augustine is in the building.

What's good, buddy? So what you all, man. You know, it's a cold winter out here. Howard, I know you feel my pain. You know, just trying to maintain and go through it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah. It's cold.

It's cold. It's definitely cold everywhere. And Cliff and I are in the t-shirts and the two guys in like the freaking 75 degrees are like in bricking hoodies. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Hey, hey. It's a high of 58 degrees in the Bay Area.

So, relax. I'm going to swing some laps when this is over. Oh, man. As the great rapper free once, as the great rapper for you once said, it's a cold window, y'all better bundle up. Let me get to the question here. This is from Matt Huo.

Matt from Virginia. What up, Rowan's. Shout out to you all. You too, Cliff. As an Asian American, Jeremy Lynn, was a huge inspiration to me when he announced his retirement back in August. I was re-watching the highlights

from his first start, second game of Lincinnity against the jazz. and have to do a double take. I realize my man, Rajas, guarding Lynn at first after jump ball, but then Roger isn't the primary defender after that. Poor went out for Devin Harris and Earl Watson. Raja, since Jay Lynn literally hadn't started before, but had a really good game right before versus the Nets,

what was the scout on him right after the breakout game? What was going through your mind during that game? And what do you remember from that game in the ensuing weeks of Lynn sanity? And to Howard and Logan, I think Howard was with the New York Times. Well, I know Logan is from the Bay Area where Jeremy Lynn is from. Any fun stories or memories about Jeremy Lynn? Deep cuts are welcome. Love the pod and happy holidays to y'all.

Matt. Matt. Well done, Matt. Yeah, real good. I won't take up a lot of time because I, but I do remember it. I remember the scout was, I don't remember what the scout was in terms of what he does

and what he doesn't do because, I mean, quite frankly, there wasn't enough tape on it. So no one could really dig into like tendencies or anything like that. But I remember he was a huge topic of conversation. He had already kind of splashed a little bit. And, you know, NBA players are wired not to believe it until it happens to them. So suffice to say, I don't think any of us really believed it.

And I don't remember what he put up that night. But he lit us up. And nobody, me included, if I ever switched on it, was really able to do much with that. the rest of Linsanity, I mean, it was one of the wildest rides, I think, of my career watching someone else just go on a tear. It was a crazy time. Like he was virtually unstoppable. How long did that last?

Like three weeks. Like three weeks, yeah. I mean, but he was virtually unstoppable through three weeks of basketball, right? Yeah. Like, it was pretty insane. I mean, we were watching it. and people just couldn't believe what was happening. But on that night, I do remember going there.

I remember, I remember to scout that morning making people aware of Jeremy Lynn, not having a whole lot to say about what he did or where he wanted to be. And I remember a little discourse on the, you know, on the bus and shit like that. People were like, my, I ain't no fucking way, bro. That's not. Nope, not happening. And then it happened. Yeah.

I'm going to have to like contain myself here because I could talk about this one a long time. Yeah, I was covering the Nix for the New York Times when Linsanity happened. Nobody saw this coming. Mike Dantone didn't see this coming. Jeremy Linn didn't see this coming. None of us saw this coming. The first thing I remember was that it was like right before, like a trip after the holidays. We're sitting in the press room up in Westchester at the Knicks Training Center.

And there's a press release sitting on the table where they often put these things. Because back of the day, we just printed out a lot of paper and killed a lot of trees. And there was a stack of press releases about like Nick signed Jeremy Lynn. Well, Jeremy had been cut by the warriors, cut by the rockets. And it was like, oh, yeah, the Harvard kid, right. Oh, yeah, okay, cool. One of the only Asian Americans ever in the NBA. But, you know, yeah, around for a cup of coffee.

And they signed him to basically be a backup to like Mike Bibby, who was like a 72 years old at the time. And Tony Douglas, who was not a point guard. And like, they were just down bodies. And they just needed, like, they just needed somebody healthy. So it was just an emergency measure. That was it. And that trip then started in the Bay Area. So now we fly to the Bay Area and Jeremy Lynn, because he lives there and was a free agent at the time, just joined the team there.

And so it was this nice thing because it was like his first game was going to be against the Warriors in his home area and all this stuff. So it was like a lot of that. But like, dude, I mean, nobody sees any of this coming. And the night that he breaks out against the nets, we're just like looking at each other. Like the best stories, like I come at this obviously from this perspective as a journalist and, and someone who, I hate to say, storyteller sounds so pretentious. But the best stories are the ones you can't see coming. Like, it's great that LeBron James has drafted number one with all the hype in the world

and actually turns into one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Cool, awesome. Many, many highlights along the way. But we could not see Janice coming and we could not see Steph Curry coming, right? Like, in a way, yes, but in a lot of ways, no with Steph. Guys who were not the number one overall pick or a top three pick. And then something like this, a guy who's like comes up. out of Harvard, been waived multiple times. Nobody even knows if he's going to have an NBA career

at all. He smokes the Nets and Darren Williams. He smokes Raja Bell's Utah Jazz. By the way, 28 and 8 were the numbers you were looking for there, Raja. He also had eight turnover. He also had eight turnovers that night, but you probably caused at least one of those. So I'll take credit. And then it, but the fact is it just kept going, right? Then he's, he drops 23 and 10 on the Wizards in Washington and a huge, Asian fan base there too. So like that that place was rooting hard for him. Then he drops 38 on the Lakers with Kobe at the garden. And it just keeps going that he has that game winner in Toronto when he had 27 and 11 assists. That was awesome. That game was awesome. He had the game winner right. Yeah. It was crazy.

And that was the thing. Like every time you thought like, wow, that was amazing. We'll never see that again. Oh, here's another one. And here's another one. And then eventually like his knee got hurt. and then the heat, like, LeBron and Dwayne Wade basically decided, like, this kid's not doing this to us. So they went all out to just, like, hound the crap out of him. But that was also when, like, he had a torn meniscus, I think, at that time that had not been publicized. And so, like, the knee injuries started to slow him down after about three to four weeks of insanity. But it was, it was awesome. It's one of the most enjoyable stories, moments.

And by moments in this case, I mean, like a three-week moment. one of the most enjoyable things I've ever covered. It was a blast. I want to throw one other quick little detail, Logan, if you can indulge. So several years later, Kenny Akinson's hired to coach the Nets, his first head coaching job. Kenny had been Jeremy Lynn's like workout guy on Mike Dantone's staff. So Jeremy was shouting him out all the time.

And now they're reunited. The Nets signed Jeremy to be with Kenny again. And I want to do a feature story about it. This is when I was a Bleacher report. I go to Kenny's office. He pulls out of his desk, this little piece of paper like this big. It was like torn off of an envelope. And it was four little plays with the names on.

them. And Jeremy had written them down, like early on in this run, or maybe before the run even began, and he'd hand it to Kenny and said, listen, can you just, these are the ones I'm comfortable with, basically. And Kenny had hung on to it all those years. And so he showed it to me. I took a photo of it. We included it with the story. I talked to Jeremy about it. He didn't know that Kenny still had it. It was awesome. So it was just like this little amazing thing. Like that's, again, the people of the game matter more than anything, right? And that's like the bond like that between coach and player, a assistant coach who was just on his way up at that time in Kenny Atkinson,

a player who everybody had slept on and was just trying to break his way. Like the bond between them was really cool too. So anyway, thank you for letting me indulge that last little bit, Logan. I will stop. It's fine. You're a great storyteller, sir. Speak. No, it's funny that you, that they asked about Jeremy.

And that's about me in like the Bay Area because I it made me think about the story I actually did for the ringer like a long time ago during the pandemic that I completely forgot about where I actually interviewed him when he was back in the G league in 2021. Like I think one of his last stops before his career ended. And I remember during the time we're just trying to figure out a story for me to write. And if you know, you know, it's really hard to get a byline out up at the ringer for a number of reasons, but also to get like the perfect angle. and at the time I was doing Q&As and I hit Ray Ritter and I'm like, yo, bro let me, um, you got Jeremy and Injili, let me talk to him.

You know, Ray Mariner just like, oh yeah, I got you here, you know? And I call, uh, and I call Jeremy or he calls me one of the two. And it was one of the most insightful conversations that I've ever had with an NBA basketball player. And I went into it very nervous because I really wanted to do good on this, um, this piece. and I asked him just like, how do you feel now at this stage of your career about Linsanity and what his relationship was with Linsanity? And he talked about a lot of things,

but he talked about just what that meant for him, but it got him into the league. But it also, for a player like that, where he stood when he first got to the Knicks in the way that you talk about Howard, where he talks about, you know, he was a superstar overnight in a way that most guys who are in his position, they don't get to the stratosphere of the zeitgeist within three weeks. He was sleeping on Landry Fields' couch and now he's like on Broadway and he's like this superstar. But he talked about what that did for him. And I want to read a quote from this.

He talks about at the time you're like, with all the success, I thought it would be everything I ever needed. You realize it's not because you set new goals and ultimately your heart is still empty. That success isn't going to make you feel like you'll need anything forever. It's not going to fulfill you. So there's an emptiness. Then you feel like from the emptiness, there comes a point where you're just scared and everybody's changing around you. People are changing and people want stuff from you. You're dealing with the ugly side and the greedy and the selfish side of human nature and you're scared. Then you go from scared to being jaded. And then you go from jaded to acting out and just being rebellious.

And then going from rebellion to you come to a place like, I've rebelled, I've rebelled, I've rebelled. And then you slowly start to get humbled. And he talked about how when, you know, he went to the Lakers and he went to all these places, he was still dealing with the character of Jeremy Lynn

as opposed to Jeremy Lynn the person and he didn't get humbled until Atlanta and Brooklyn. And it was a very insightful conversation that I came away with like, oh shit, this guy is like on the other side of it. And it was one of the best interviews that I've ever felt like I've been a part of because of just the subject in general

and it felt like he was ready to speak. And so that's the only time I've ever talked to Jeremy Lynn. I'm sure he doesn't even recognize me or wouldn't even know who I am, but he was very insightful on not only like what Lincanity was as an idea and as a concept, but how it affects you as a human to be that. So that was cool.

That's my Jeremy Lynn story. I think we have time for maybe one more question. And then I think we've got to get about it here. But that's my Jeremy Lynn story. All right. This is the last question. And this is from Kamel Brown. Now that Chris Paul has stated he would be willing to play somewhere other than the West Coast, do you think there is a market for his services? Kamel Brown. Go ahead. Go ahead, Roger. I don't know. Go ahead. I'm going to defer. It's tough. I think it's really tough for, because this is obviously his last year. And what Chris

Paul brings to a team at this stage is probably what a team that's winning a championship doesn't or going to strive to win a championship doesn't really need. And I'm not talking about the leadership and the stories and things like that. I'm talking about all the other stuff around it, right? Like at this stage of the season, you don't want somebody like doing the stuff that pissed all of the clippers off. And I say this as someone who thought he was put in a position where it was really unfair. And I think that he should still be a clipper right now.

If that was an organization that valued its, you know, pillars of a, organization. That being said, I think for another team right now, I don't think that they need that midseason because it's going to be a reset and you're going to bring Chris Paul into the fold and he's going to be like, wait, wait, I don't like that. But I'm like, bro, it's December. Like, we're already, we're already have our habits. We already have what we're going to do. It's going to be really hard to have like four months of Chris Paul. And I think that could be more disruptive than actually helping a team at this stage of where he's at right now. Here's...

Go ahead, Howard. I was sorry. I was sorry. Go, go, Howard. I'll go. Well, look, here's the deal. If you're bad, why do you want Chris Paul, right? Like, you're not bringing Chris Paul in there, right?

If you're clearly, clearly, like, formed as a team and you don't have that point guard hole, why would you want Chris Paul? There is one team that I could think of, and mind you, don't know his relationship with the team or his relationship. with the stars on that team where I could make a case for like, do we kick the tigers on Chris Ball? Lakers? Nope. Who?

They're in the Western Conference. They've been playing without a point guard basically. Oh, Houston. Point guard. Yeah. Like, I'm not advocating for it. I'm not advocating for it. And like I said, I don't have any background on him and, I mean, him in KD or him and the Rockets organization.

And this would only be under the assumption that what just happened with the clippers has kind of humbled him a little bit probably and allowed him to take that step that we talk about all the time, which is understanding that he's mortal and that this is coming to a close really quickly. And in that world, you might get the best version of the leadership organizational skills on the court of Chris Paul and it would then be worth it. My question to you on that though really quickly though, before we go to Howard, my question to you on that is how does he jive with MA Udoka? Because they seem like two guys that are strong-minded and if like say M.A. is doing a film

session. Chris Paul is like, but no, that's what I said. This would only be, this would only be in a world where that Chris Paul can put himself away for the next six or seven months. Did you see how he just, did you see how he walked his out? around the NBA Cup like he was a deity. I don't think he's, I don't think he's humbled. I don't think that he is out here saying like I'm about to just, he's fucking Chris Paul.

So like I'm not saying that that's not something, but he doesn't. Well, I'll tell you like this. They're in a spot where they're, you're not winning. I don't think you're winning a championship. I love them.

Yeah. Yeah, you're not. So like, that's why I'm saying like, you know, I could see a team like that maybe having to have. the conversation, right? Because you are, you could look at your roster and say, okay, we're a piece away. That kind of piece away. My back. Go ahead, Howard. If he wants, if Chris Paul wants the, like, you know, warm farewell tour and eventually the warm farewell after game 82 or the

playoffs or whatever that he was hoping for this year with the Clippers, then he does have to be a slightly more contained version of himself where, yes, it's all the best stuff, the wisdom, smart as hell and all the veteran stuff that goes with it, all the leadership, everything else. And yeah, you can still be a stern voice in the locker room. You just can't be like wearing everybody's asses out. So if there was ever a time for him to recalibrate, now would be it. Because this is it. Otherwise, his last memory of the NBA is having the clippers banish him.

That's kind of fucked up. And I don't, he doesn't want that. Nobody, nobody wants that. the complication here. So to Kamel's question about the market, there's a bunch of complications here. The first one is that the clippers can't just waive him. There are a bunch of complicated rules about the aprons and fucking roster minimums and all this stuff. They can't just wave him. They need to trade him. So now they need to trade him to someone like Brooklyn where they can just absorb him and cut him, but you're going to have to give them an inducement. Now you've got to give up like second round

picks or something to do this because why else is Brooklyn or whoever doing you the favor? So what you need is a trade partner that will acquire him and probably waive him so that he can go to one of the teams that he actually wants to go to. I got a list of like nine potentially. And you guys can like, Raj is going to do his like classic Roger Rinkleface thing. Logan's just going to scoff. But Houston was one of them. And Logan, like point taken about email. Did you see EMA going off post game about the refs last night? Holy crap. That's good. I can't wait to see what that fine is. He went off. I get it. But yes, I agree with Russia. They could use a point guard. And complications with all these teams, by the way, I don't know who's got roster spots

that they can actually use or what other apron shit they got to deal with. In a vacuum, though, like, would he make sense potentially for Denver that's been banged up and could use maybe another guard off the bench? Sure. The Lakers where his buddy LeBron could advocate for him, maybe. Back to the Spurs? Maybe. There's a reason why he's not on the spurs right now. But is that? I think he wanted to go back to L.A. too, Logan. So I don't know.

Minnesota, I don't know if they need yet another old guy because they already got an old guy with Mike Connolly. But like they do need point guard help. Back to Phoenix, maybe. They're not going anywhere, but they're off to a good start and overachieving. And he's got ties there. Devin Booker. Logan, back to the Warriors? or do they want, is that, is that, that's just done?

That's, that's, that's done. There's a reason why he didn't get resigned back with the Warriors. That's what I figure. Dallas is a stopgap until Kyrie presumably comes back. Maybe. Again, what, what have we seen? I want to say something really quickly, Howard, because I feel like you're making the same excuse for Chris Paul,

for like maybe he can help. We're working under the assumption that he has been like a really good piece this season. he has not been very good. If this would have been like Chris Paul of maybe two years ago, sure, could definitely help these teams. No one's saying he's there to take over your starting point guard, play 36 minutes a game. It's like, can he be of value to a team as a short minutes reserve and guy who has seen it all, done it all? But he couldn't even do that on a team that's won like five games before they banished him,

which I will say like that was fucked up. Yeah. And there's more obviously, dude, the fucking. wheels are coming off. Like everything's got the bumpers are coming off. The suspension's like cracked. Like the clippers like, hey, I just got back from LA. I cannot wait to go back for All-Star because that's going to be hilarious.

It's going to be hilarious to see how the clippers try to put put makeup on a pig and say, oh, everything's going great. It's great. At the Clippers Arena. You do it don't. It's going to be so sad. I'm just like, and the other thing I thought about to, Orlando would have been the other team, by the way, on the list here.

a team that's like basically never had a point guard or at least for a very long time. I also just think that like some of the best moments of Chris Paul's career, his best seasons have been when he like got the thunder to overachieve in his time there, got the sons to like he's really great at molding a young team. So part of me wants to say like maybe it should be a middle tier or a lower tier team. But like it's his last run. He probably wants to be on a team that's relevant on some level.

so I was focused mostly on those. But I think there's at least a plausible case for any of these. You're paying him the minimum. You're playing in minimum minutes as well. I have to believe it's not over for him yet. And I hope it's not. That would be a really sad way to go out. I think there's a bigger chance to not.

That it's over. But we'll see. That it's over. I mean, I'm not saying somebody could say, say, hey, we want him on our team. But I just think that it's more likely than not that he's probably it's it's it's gonna be it'll be a tough sale like all the names that you're telling me is like it's just a really really tough sell because you even said stopgat for dallas like he's not good

enough to be a stopgat at this point in his career right now until kairi gets back there's just so many every time you say it I'm like oh oh oh oh I can find a plausible excuse of why especially this late in the season and the trade and all those things the clippers just clippers were so scanneless I think that's just the bigger thing here. Like, I, I, I,

I, I, I, I, it's so just cruel. Let me, let me just say this. Like,

he's, he's clearly not the player that he was, um, you know, even when he was, when he had that son's team with Devin Booker and they were doing their thing. Like, he's not that guy.

I tend to agree with Howard in terms of physically he's, like, there's something that he can give you, right? Um, here's what I'd say to what you're saying, Logan, when you put, and I've said this before, you put someone like Chris Paul and his expectations into a, a shit show and pure dysfunction,

you're going to get the worst version of him. Because he's not like, it's, that's what you're going to get. That doesn't mean that if you put him in something that's functional and could use what he's talking about, he wouldn't then be functional again. Do you know what I mean? If that makes sense, like we're just assuming that if you put him in a solid situation, situation, he's the dysfunction. I don't really believe that. I've been that guy. We're like, hey, bro, I'm not dysfunctional. This shit is crazy. And I just want to give him the benefit of the

doubt with that. You know what I mean? But last thing I would say to that is not only would they need a little bit of a void in terms of the point guard position, why I lobbied for Houston or a team like Houston would be a little bit of a void in terms of voice on the court. So like, that's fair. Yeah, Udoca is an issue. There's no voice out there, really. So, like, he can absorb some of the responsibility that he's used to absorbing, you know? That's just my...

He can be Iguidala on the 22 champion warriors or like that, right? Like, basically, he's not maybe playing as much, but he's like, yo, Reed Shepherd, come here. I got to, I got to tell you this. Okay. You can talk me to that. Yeah, that's a good call. There's value there. There's value there.

Also, by the way, like, usually you want your best players to be your leaders, but we've seen over and over. like Kevin Durant doesn't necessarily want to take on that kind of role that his personality is not geared that direction. I don't know how much Shangoon wants to do that. You know, is it falling to like Stephen Adams. Well, the Rockets are our MA's team, though. Rockets in all ways are MAs team. For sure, but I mean, Rajah back me up unless you disagree. Somebody on the court has to do it. Yeah. Sure. Absolutely. That. And a man is too young. Like, who else is going to do that? And I'm curious if a man like ever gets that person gets that in him, right? Like, I've been around a men a couple of times. great kid, but also is like you want him to have like some just, umph. Like, you know what I mean?

Like I don't think he's, he's not there yet. I wonder when or if he's going to be that. Listen, you take this for whatever it's worth. There aren't a lot of people that want to do that. Yeah. Good, bad, or indifferent. Like, it takes a certain personality type to be, to be that guy, right? Like, it doesn't just come around all the time. So, you know, it's particularly rare in guys that can really, really who. you know, like that want to be the, the, the, the actual emotional and verbal leader out there. Like, you know, you had the KGs of the world that did that. MJ's not especially rare. I shouldn't have said that.

But like it, it isn't always the case. And a lot of those guys have a sidekick that does that for them. Yeah. That's fair. You talked me into it, man. Chris Paul to the Rockets. Also a very, another, yet another example of Roger Bell saying he doesn't know about a subject and then just drop in 50 and like, 25. I'm just saying.

Let's just, you know, the pattern is there. That has been another edition of Real Ones. Thank you guys. Thanks everybody from the Mailbag. Thanks to Victoria. Thanks to Cliff. Real onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com.

Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. We do this every Tuesday. At least we try to. We will see me and Rajah on, me and Rajah on Friday, I believe. And then, okay, bro, stop doing it. this. Am I just finding this out on the thing? All right, man, whatever, bro. We're going to lock in and then we're going to see somebody. Real ones will be back on Friday. And I will

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