The Ringer NBA Show - Are We Sure the Lakers Will Make the Playoffs? | The Mismatch (Ep. 393)

Episode Date: February 26, 2019

After falling below .500, the Los Angeles Lakers are at risk of missing the playoffs (1:19). Plus: checking in with the young rebuilding teams (33:28). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday on the mismatch from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Conflict, aka Kevin O'CadownCandyland, aka Kevin O'Colm, Klamourke. Your intro every Tuesday morning is like my coffee, it's fuel for me, Chris. I'm ready to go. Let's do it. Especially after last night's Lakers Grizzlies. Yeah.

Oh, now that, my friend, was fuel for me. I haven't slept since. I'm just kidding. I wouldn't have been surprised. I was at the game last night to watch LeBron James and his Los Angeles Lakers, who had been losers of three of four, now become losers of four of five. Though over the weekend, LeBron James had said he was going to go into playoff mode, it has not yielded results for the Lakers as they took a loss to the Grizzlies. And now, after 60 games, they are 29 and 31.

By most tabulations, you're going to have to get to 44 or 45 wins to make the playoffs. It seems like the eight seed that that's about the number. If that is the case, let's say it's 45 to be sure. With 22 games remaining, they would have to go 16 and 6. in their last 22 games and play at a winning percentage that greatly eclipses anything they've shown to be capable of so far this year. So what do you think? Well, a couple things, Chris. There's a lot to discuss with the Lakers.

First of all, this team was on that 47-48 win pace before LeBron got hurt. They were outscoring teams by 2.3 points for Horn and Possessions through Christmas. since then they're getting outscored by 5.5 points per 100 possessions, and that's like the equivalent of a 25 or 26 win team. So, you know, with LeBron's injury and all the AD trade stuff, just destroying their chemistry, this team just looks completely different. But they still have LeBron James on their roster, and we have seen him carry these teams in the past,

and you have him chatting with the media about, you know, urgency and all that. But with him, where is his effort on the defensive end of the floor to set that tone for everybody else in that team. Because right now, Brennan Ingram is playing the best basketball of his life, these past 10, 11, 12 or so games. Kyle Kuzman is still playing well. Reggie Bullock has been a positive addition for them.

They're getting positive contributions from some guys, including LeBron James. He's still LeBron. But the defensive intensity with him is not there. Where are the chase down blocks? Where are the weak side blocks? Where is any semblance of effort on the defensive end of the floor with him?

And I think part of that would help this, team elevate and overcome just this, the meme team has been horrible. The veterans have been the real issue. And LeBron, that's what he needs to overcome just by going into playoff mode immediately. Man, who would have ever guessed that? Not me. I was wrong before the season. I predicted them to win 50 games right on the button, and that has not happened.

I did not take into account the fact that LeBron could get hurt or the fact that Lonzo could get hurt. I mean, his defense has been greatly missed ever since. he's been out. And again, man, like it almost gets back to the original point that a lot of people joked about over the summer. They signed the meme team. Javelle McGee started off the year well and he's been horrible lately. Lance Stevenson is still Lance Stevenson. Michael Beasley's gone now, which is not a loss for them. This team's veterans have ultimately been the issue with Rajan Rondo as well, just being a total sieve on the defensive end of the floor. Kevin, I believe my argument to you

was too many goofies. Yes. I do believe that's what you said. I think that was the limit. Too many goofies. There's a limit. You know what I mean? You can have a couple.

Maybe one, maybe two. You cannot have a team full of goopies. And last night, you're dead on about the whole, that team plays off LeBron and the chemistry is wrecked. You watch teams, and I got a different perspective, watching them in person. And you watch how they communicate with each other on the defensive end. You see when one of them does something well on the offensive end.

And the way that they communicate with each other and the way they're slapping high fives or the way that they're encouraging each other or the way they're just simply talking as the game is going on. And there is virtually none of that. It's five guys playing on their own many times. And the LeBron James eye rolls, like if you were, were to put a ticker on those, they are just immense. I mean, absolutely immense.

And then, of all the eye rolls, then the game gets on the line last night. He takes like two 40-footers. And Brandon Ingram had destroyed the Grizzlies the whole night. There was no answer for him. And even in the fourth quarter, he had been banging some threes. And like every time he got the ball, everybody in the arena cringed. And then down the stretch. like it's like he didn't even touch the ball.

All LeBron down the stretch. And LeBron and taking just miserable shots. Like contested 38 foot threes. Like I don't even I don't even understand what was going on. And obviously, like I said, it's just super disjointed amongst all of them. And I, listen, it would be that way anywhere. Sometimes basketball is no different than a workplace. And if you guys had found out that Bill Simmons would rather have

somebody else than you around that office, then the next day showing up to work, you're not going to feel the same way. And I think that's how a lot of those young guys felt and now it kind of becomes every man for themselves. I don't know. I mean, I think that's true to extend. I think, you know, regardless of the workplace,

it also, I mean, every job is different. But, you know, for a competitive sport or a competitive atmosphere for Ingram, like, he's playing the best basketball of his life right now, man. And I think that says a lot about his mental makeup up to be able to battle through this so-called adversity with LeBron laughing on TNT about how much he wants to play AD going on the record in December with my friend David McMannerman at ESPN saying that it would be incredible. It would be amazing to play with Anthony Davis. It's like all along

LeBron's been saying these things publicly or, you know, alluding to how much he wants to play with AD or another star. And yet, you know, during the height of this, Ingram has played the best ball of his life, and Kuzma's game is not changed for the worst at all. It's just ultimately, yes, this team is very disjointed. Yes, they have no chemistry. They don't talk on defense. There's clearly something wrong with the foundation of this team. But it still comes back to the fact that the veterans on this team are poor. And to me, there's been a lot of conversation about Luke Walton and his poor rotations, and those are very fair criticisms. But also, who are the people that ended up bringing in these players last summer. Again, I was wrong about some of these

signings. I defended them simply because there were one-year deals and it's set up for the summer through a game cap space. But in hindsight, it was a mistake signing Rondo, KCP, Lance Stevenson, even the Muscala trade that is a downgrade from Zubots and Javail McGee as well. This team over the past year has made some mistakes to the other areas of their roster that are ultimately affecting them negative Philly now because they are getting the efforts they need from Kuzma, Ingram, and that starting lineup. Well, for what it's worth, and I had this thought last night while I was watching them, where I was thinking of myself, you know, because you mentioned the Walton rotation.

Sometimes when they bring in their bench, it's ridiculous, right? It's not good enough. And I was thinking, why not either decide and say you don't want to do it with Ingram, then bring Kuzma off the bench, right? Because the Ingram Kuzma, it's not a great fit. with each other. And so I went and I pulled it and say whatever you want. People can dismiss two-man lineups. But I just went to find out what's happened when they are on the floor this year. And it's obviously played a lot of minutes. Over a thousand minutes. It's actually been a negative

minus 1.7 regardless of the other three guys on the floor. It's just an odd fit. Now, obviously, LeBron and Coosma together on the floor have been really good. And now it's almost like figure out, you know, we talk about this a lot, stars and role players and kind of how it all fits together. And I'm not so sure that LeBron Kuzma and Ingram, who probably all are best naturally at Small Forward, if you were doing a actual position thing, I'm not sure it works all that way, well, it doesn't work all that well together as a unit. And they've obviously had flashes. is when Ingram was out, Kuzma really exploded. And I think there's something to be said of just how it all fits together,

which is something that Luke Walton has struggled with throughout this year. I mean, listen, I watched them last night. And there's no way that team's going 16 and 6 in their last 22 games. No way. I think with this team, it's a number of different factors. It's partially what you're saying. It's also the fact that their best defender, Lonzo Ball is out. And I think his energy on the defensive end of the floor and his versatility.

and the playmaking plays he makes on the defensive end of the floor, jumping passing lanes, deflecting balls, all that chaos that he creates on that end helps not only energize his team, but it generates fast break opportunities for them as well. He's missed. You completely on this. I do.

You see last night, they didn't even start a point guard. It's James and Bullock. Yeah, LeBron and Ingram as well handling the ball a lot more. Look, Ingram has been really good. Over time, some of the, and this touches on your point about the fit. whether his last season or this season,

some of his best stints are when he's not with Lonzo Ball. Last year, his best stint of the season was while Lonzo was out for 11 games. This season, it started when LeBron and Lonzo were out, and now it's still continued as LeBron has returned. And this is why I think when it comes to the trade conversation with Anthony Davis or whoever else, Ingram has his concerns as a three-point shooter. But the progress he has made every single season,

And I wrote this last summer during the Kauai stuff. I still think you put him in a new situation where he has the ball in his hands more. He's going to be dropping like 22 points, you know, five or six rebounds with five or six assists. I think he's capable of that putting the ball in his hands more often and letting him run more pick and roll. I think with this situation,

he does need to learn how to play better off ball, spot-up shooting and cutting and screening and things like that. But his ultimate destiny is a player, I think is that is as that playmaking forward. And we're seeing that right now with him. And really, it's a shame for a Lakers fan watching this game where, like, Ingram's playing the best ball of his life. But everything else is at its worst right now

when they're really getting what they needed from that second guy entering the season that they didn't get early on that they are getting now when things are going sour. The other thing that ran through my mind last night as I was watching it is, and we will see what the summer holds. But there was a moment when I,

I was watching Ingram, who I'm still very high on, and I know as are you, who's still very young. But I'm watching Ingram. I'm watching Coosma. Obviously, they are without Lonzo, which hurts them. And then Hart or whoever else, maybe Zubotch could have been included. And you're talking about two first round picks, like that whole reported deal. And there was a moment where I was watching last night. And I was like, things are going very badly for this team.

And they very well may miss the playoffs. But I'm not so sure that the Pelican. won't look back and regret that. Now, maybe that deal, if they wanted that deal, that deal will just be there again during the summer. I don't know what's going to happen with the Davis thing. But in terms of return, I mean, that is a lot of really good young players that you would have gotten.

If you're talking about additionally a couple of first round picks that are included in that. And I know people have gotten more down on, say, Ingram, but he is. a guy clearly. I mean, he's got 61 points in their last two games. I'm aware that they're both in losses. But in just terms of raw talent, if Brandon Ingram ended up taking a leap next year, the year after that, and became a legitimate star in the league, it would not shock me in the least. And Kuzma's obviously going to have a very long, good career. And Lonzo were talking about what they've done with that. I mean, I don't know. Maybe that deals there in the summer, but I

think there's a chance you could look back on that and really regret not taking that because that would have been that would have been really good return i think there is a chance i mean especially when you look at the flip side of that if kairie does leave boston i don't think they would be willing to go on an offer with ad and if that were to happen i think new orleans suddenly loses a lot of leverage depending on what else is out there and that could elevate the lakers offer which is already i think a good offer because of everything you just said about those young guys and the picks they would have been willing to give, but it's funny when looking ahead with this Lakers team, obviously it's disastrous if they don't make the postseason with LeBron James considering expectations. Because if they do,

you know, as like the six or seven seed, you never know. Like, you never know what happens, right? Like, they could always win around and player gets hurt. They could end up in the Western Conference finals. You never know. It's disastrous if they don't make the postseason. What? I'm just saying you never know. I wouldn't pick them in any... I do know. I'm just saying you never know. I'm just saying you never know. with the Brown James. No, I just watched the Grizzlies lose to the friggin' Bills and the Cams and the whoever, and they somehow turned around and beat them Lakers last night.

I'm not saying that they would be favored at all. I'm just saying that they wouldn't be like a zero percent chance. That's it. But my point is this, Chris. My point is this. Right now, Western Conference Finals. God damn.

I'm just saying as a six or seven seat, if they were to elevate that high, which is highly unlikely, if they were to make the playoffs, would probably be as an eight seed, and then they're just getting whacked by the Warriors in the first round. That's beside the point. The point is that with the Lakers right now,

they're only three games back, three games back from Dallas and New Orleans for the eighth or ninth worst record. And it's funny when you really think about it. If they were to drop in the standings or rise up the lottery standings depending on your perspective, they could have like a 25% chance of jumping into the top four of the drafty. 6% chance of landing the number one pick. And when you think about whether it's an 80 trade or trade for somebody else or just having a high

value prospect on a murky contract, it's just interesting to think about how a disaster could lead to a reward. You want to make the playoffs if you're the Lakers, but not missing the playoffs does give you a higher percent chance of a nice reward come June. The BPI projections right now have the Lakers as a 3% chance of making. the playoffs as of today. Now, the Clippers have a 90% chance in San Antonio 86, Sacramento, just 14 and a half. I thought that Sacramento could be the one that could charge maybe in these last 20 games. And I hate to say this to you, Isaac. I thought the Clippers may be the one

that could fall back after what took place. I watched them in person over the weekend and was just not impressed. Obviously, they turned around and got smoked by Denver, but then turned around and had a good win last night against the Mavericks. How confident are you in the Clippers being able to hold down the fort in these last like 20 games? Well, Kevin and I talked about this right after the trade deadline. We were both pretty optimistic about the Clippers because of their easy schedule going forward. And the fact that, yeah, they lost Tobias Harris in that trade, but they got a lot of good pieces in return. Garrett Semple and Jamichael Green from the Grizzlies, from your Grizzlies. They've been solid veterans around SGA and Shamit.

I really like the Clippers. Last night, they showed a lot of energy. Montres Harrell went off, obviously. Lou and Montres holding down the fort coming off the bench. I really like this Clippers team, and more than the roster, their schedule is so easy going forward. They're at home a lot. I'm more so banking on the fact that they'll just breeze through the rest of the season.

I tell you this, that Montrez is quite a story. I watched them have 30 on 11 of 14 over the weekend. and I know he had 30 plus last night again, right? And the thing that's good about him is, you know, we talk a lot about him as a rim roller or a dunking machine and all that, but he last night especially did some nice things after the short roll passing the ball.

He had some drives from the elbow, his elbow area as well. He's more than just a rim, a screening big who rolls to the rim. He's developing the rest of his game as well. It's really impressive. He's going to get paid, paid when he hits free agency in 2020. All right, so you're confident that Clippers

are going to be able to hold on. to it. Yeah, yeah, I am. I was disappointed. I texted, we have a slack for the corner three on Friday, and Kevin Charks and Danny all picked Lakers and Spurs to make it in, not even a mention of the Clippers, just neglected the fact that they have one of the easiest schedules remaining. And the Lakers have one of the hardest ones, and yet we picked them anyway. I tell you this, I'd much rather, I'd much rather see Sacramento in that first round against Golden State than the Spurs. If I could pick one of those teams, to make the eight spot, I would much rather

see Sacramento play against Golden State. I mean, either one of them are probably going to get slaughtered. But that Sacramento Golden State game over the weekend was great. Oh, that was wonderful. And they've got, you know, they've got the back court, healed can get hot and have some good nights, and Bagley is a problem for them.

Because they got a bunch of big guys on that Sacramento team. And obviously, Dave Yeager has coached against that team in playoff series before and could make it difficult on them. I wouldn't be surprised if Sacramento could win a game or maybe two games in that series. I think San Antonio would just get destroyed.

I still wonder, we discussed this briefly before, maybe it was a different pod, I forget. But I still wonder, like, what are the odds you could get right now on Golden State going 16 and O in the playoffs? That would be a terrible bet, terrible. I mean, I still wonder what the odds would be. I'm not saying it would be a smart bet or a dumb bed. I just wonder what the odds would be for the reward

if you did want to bet on that, smarter or dumb. I think it is more likely that they would lose eight games, then they would lose zero in the playoffs. So that's two per round. Oh, I could just see them having two deep series. Yeah. So like two seven game series, which is six losses already and then one and the others. Yeah, I mean, I just think it's more likely.

This particular incarnation of the Warriors is not just going to run all over somebody. And we've seen them in long series before. Obviously, OKC took them to seven. Houston, I mean, had them dead to rights last year. A lot of people still believe that if Paul's healthy, they would have lost that series. And so this isn't going to be a coast. No, no, no, definitely not. The West is stronger right now when you look up and down that conference, the fact that

Denver is still continuing to surge. And they are healthy for the most part for the first time this entire season. Paul George, obviously, we've talked about him in past weeks, just playing at an MVP level. This is a strong conference with a lot of deep teams as well that can definitely not necessarily knock Golden State off, but make it one heck of a series. Do you think it is a major indictment of LeBron if they don't make the playoffs,

that the first year he moves to the Western Conference, his team is not good enough to be in the playoffs? No. When everybody has always said it's a different world if he's not in the East. And then it just so happens the first year he's not in the East if his team doesn't make the play. or is just, you know, fighting tooth and nail to just try to get a playoff spot, you think

in no way is an indictment of him. No. I think with LeBron, the conversation, maybe there should be more talk about, like we hit on earlier, where's the defensive effort, where's the leadership, is this leadership style right? Where's the accountability as well? Those sound like indictments. Maybe they are.

Maybe they are, but I still think, ultimately, Chris, what it comes down to is he's not the guy who signed the guys that were signed. It's, you know, Magic Johnson and Rob Polenka, there's been no public accountability for the signings last summer. I think that's what it comes down to. I think what's going to end up happening is Luke Walton's probably going to be the scapegoat, whether or not they make the postseason. If they get bounced early in the playoffs or if missed the playoffs entirely, Walton probably will be the scapegoat. And you know, he's not necessarily the right coach for this team. We've talked about this in the past. But that doesn't change the fact that they have just foundational issues on their roster that

to be resolved for this team to whether or not they get AD, whether or not they trade for another star. The rest of that roster needs to be constructed properly. If you look back at the things that were said last summer about them adding playmakers and Magic Johnson

talked at Summer League about how everybody talks about how we don't have enough shooting. That's what he said. But we have playmakers, what was his point? Well, no, you need to find shooting for a LeBron James-led roster. Or even for Brandon Ingram for that matter as well.

You need to find shooting for this team, and it won't necessarily be easy to find, depending on the other moves that they make. They have a lot of work to do on this roster, and I don't think that's an indictment on LeBron James necessarily. I think with him, it's just about the leadership and some of the public comments about AD that have just derailed the chemistry,

that that's perhaps what should be discussed more in addition to the fact that a lot of talk about having a sense of urgency, but he's not showing much of it on the floor by playing with it. I'll tell you this. Last night, I think everybody was awaiting if LeBron will put something up on social media, whether it is a sub-tweet about things. Oh, he did last night about his accomplishments. He went to Instagram and posted about his accomplishment now because-

He posted only player in the top 10 all-time and points and assists. Right. I had to do this, which I very rarely do. I clicked on comments, and let's just say Laker fans were not enthused about this post. I mean, it was. Isn't it funny seeing Lakers' Man's turn on LeBron already? I took a screenshot and sent it to my buddy. Let me see this, because I took a screenshot because I was looking at it last night.

And I'll see if I'll see if I can buy this. I just pulled them up too. This is funny. Here it was. Here we go. It says, all right, the first one was, can we get a wind street going and then like the face palm emoji? The next one was, who gives a F, win a F in game?

And we had start playing some Fing D, F this accomplishment. You look so uninterested, out of shape, tired, and uncomfortable. You're the goad in my eyes. But damn, dude, this shit's sickening. You're better than this. We really might not see the playoff LeBron this year. Get off the internet and get on a win streak. I was like, oh, God.

Talk about tone deaf. Like, how can you lose your fourth out of fifth game? your whole fan base is furious. The whole thing looks in shambles. And you're like, hey, but look at what I did. Not a good look for the king last night. No, definitely not. And I think fans are obviously smart enough to see through some of that with the stuff about,

like, is basketball the most important thing in your life? Meanwhile, you have like all these side business opportunities that you came to L.A. for, in addition to family and basketball, it's not just about all that. but right now with LeBron it's like the way he's playing on defense it's almost like he's more looking forward to having some extra time off because he's recording Space Jam 2 this summer than he would be making a playoff run that gets flamed out in either the first round or the second round Kevin I'm glad he brought that up because last night the post game broadcast that I was a part of had a picture taken of it went viral there was a sign behind our broadcast that said LeBron will ruin space jam like he ruined into the Lakers. Do you agree with that sign? Well, I mean, I'm not sure how much there is to ruin.

With Space Jam or the Lakers? Space Jam. Oh, okay. I mean, Space Jam is a fine movie, you know. It's like, I feel like it's not hard to improve on it either. It's a low bar. Just being honest. Space Jam's a fine movie. It's, you know, it's fine. It's fine. Yeah. Would you rather have Rondo, Lance Stevenson,

Mike Muscala or Bugs Bunny Daffy Duck and the Tasmanian Devil which of which of those

if I if I all right would you trade Rondo Mascala and Lance Daffy Dug Bugs Bunny

and the Tasmanian We should We should do like You know Are you holding out for Elmer Fudge You know You know those like

Purchase your team With $15 or whatever types of things that they put on Instagram and Twitter Like we should do of those at the ringer with all those names you just mentioned. Oh, how about this? How about this? I don't want to break this story because it's just

rumor right now, but there's a massive plot twist in Space Jam 2. They lose. Oh, God. Because it's LeBron instead of Jordan. Oh, my goodness. The Monstars actually win. Yeah, the Monstars actually win in Space Jam 2. It's troubling. Well, I mean, it would actually kind of make sense if that hour. happen because it could set up space jam three. Where he moves back to the Eastern Conference? He takes, that's basically who he won with in the East. I mean, it was like Moe Williams and Drew Gooden and whoever.

I mean, he might as well have had Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny and Tasmanian Devil. Hey, Chris, very important statement right here because we're joking. Don't take LeBron James for granted. Oh, I didn't. But he took Brandon Ingram for granted last night. Brandon Ingram could have 45 points in that game last night, but he just said, no,

I'm going to go ahead and look him off and take this 40 footer right here. I didn't understand it. Ingram's been really impressive. Oh, and by the way, a big shout out to Joachim Noah. Oh, yeah.

How'd we not mention him? Hey, on a bad team this year, but I've watched this guy since he has been signed, and it is a revival, the likes of which, that it's the best one this side of Kenneth Farid, at least,

time of the effort he's played with. Awesome. Oh, he's like been a double double double all the time. He's in tremendous shape. This is a guy that was at peak of powers, defensive player of the year,

All-Star, obviously was totally humiliated in his time in New York, has had six surgeries, had a very public failing of a drug test where he had to go in front of the New York media,

got basically kicked off that team after signing a huge contract. And then was, he was just a lot of, and really thought it was all over. And he's an interesting proposition because to hear him talk, it's, you know, we always joke about taking things for granted. Almost every interview he does, he says, you know, you cannot take this for granted. It is a blessing to get to play in this league and every day now.

You know, you get the money and you get all the stuff that comes along with it and the accolades and the fame and everything. And then you do sometimes take it for granted. And then you wake up one morning and you've still got that money. And I know everybody says, yeah, well, I'd love to have all that money. I wouldn't care. I'd just lay around, whatever. But it's a guy that loves, he loves basketball. Good impression.

You know what I mean? He loves basketball. And you wake up in the morning and you're just empty. He just missed it. And so now he plays, he's always played with the level of intensity. He plays like every game is his last game on Earth. And it's been really fun to watch for sure because it looked like he was. is done and he is not done at all. And in fact,

he's giving it everything he got every night and putting up good numbers to go along with it. It's really beautiful to see, isn't it? With his kind of story arc, how it's went for him and made the big play last night and taken the charge against LeBron James in a pivotal moment, hustling back on defense. Yeah, I mean, it's just talk about, that's the urgency the Lakers need to play it with. They need to see, rewatch the film and watch Joachim Noah, all 23 minutes he played last night and think to themselves, why don't we just start playing that hard? Yeah.

Why don't we start communicating? Like just the two simple things. Play hard and communicate. You can start defending at a higher level and overcome maybe some physical limitations. That team is missing that right now on the defensive end and it's just killing them. Yeah. While I was at that game last night, our buddy Isaac, got to witness the very beautiful moment with Doc Rivers honoring Dirk Novitsky.

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And I saw your tweets last night of how crazy impressed you were to watch him in person. And it's interesting. I think you, I said this earlier this year too. When I saw him in person, the first thing you notice is how big he really is. I mean, he is gigantic for how he moves on the court and the moves that he has got. So obviously impressed by seeing Luca in person. But then, you know, you never know what's going to happen the night when you go to the arena. You have this moment last night with Doc Rivers taking the microphone, which is incredible.

The only time you usually see that is if somebody's throwing shit on the floor, right? And the coach is to get it and say, stop throwing stuff on the floor. They're going to give us a tech or something. And it's usually in college. So anyways, last night, your level of shock when you realize that the coach of the Clippers has the microphone in the middle of the game. Yeah, I was, I think I was. talking to Jason Gallagher who was sitting right next to me and I heard a hoarse voice come through the PA and I was like, is that doc speaking in the middle? There's like 10 seconds remaining

and like I don't know if I've ever seen that in a professional sports setting and definitely I've never been in the arena when such a thing happens where the opposing coach has the class to honor a legend really. I mean he's what the second greatest power forward of all time third greatest. You can debate that, but certainly one of the greatest, someone who's really beloved in the city of Dallas and all of the Mavericks fans. It was special. It was special

to see that happen and it kind of like restores your faith in why sports matters and why sports is good. You know, and I said, we talked about this a couple weeks ago, Kev. In terms of just general approval rating, Dirk is very, very, very,

very high on that list. As is Dwayne Wade for that matter. who were both honored at the All-Star game just a week ago. I don't think there's an arena in the country, seriously, that considers him a massive rival and would give him anything other than a standing ovation. And I'm not positive that that would be a certainty with all great players, but it is a certainty with him.

It doesn't matter which arena would honor him or thank him for his time in the NBA. I think fans around the NBA, his approval rating is way, way, way up there. Yeah. I mean, who doesn't like him? Seriously. Nobody. You know, I think with Dirk, like that moment last time,

it was just beautiful. Dirk tweeted this morning, you know, thanking Doc and Clippers fans and said he'll always remember this. And how can you not? I think anybody who was in that arena, especially will always remember that moment just because it was so unusual, you know, for a coach to call a timeout with nine seconds left

in a game that was over. Then to grab a microphone, it was just a great, genuine huge. human moment to honor somebody like that who does deserve it. Because not only was Dirk a great player, but he was an innovative player as well. When you think about how the game has changed over this century with the amount of big men who are shooting now, Dirk was one of the guys, among others, but especially Dirk, who was the guy who really set the tone for Biggs being able to space the floor and do the things that we see so commonly now from everybody,

from guys that you never expected it from the Brooke Lopez's and the Dwayne Dedmins for that matter, our guys shooting threes with size, never mind the guys who do it often. Dirk was a, he really helped spark a revolution with the three-point shooting for Biggs as the Hall of Fame player that he is. One other thing from last night

that I do want to mention because I made you apologize for the Lakers. I suppose I need to submit an apology to Trey Young. Oh, I was about to say, it better be this. Who had 36, I think it was last night.

It's a lot of three-point games. Those averages have gone up. Now, he's 41% from the field, 33% from three. It's not eye-popping stuff for the season as a whole. But as of late, you have seen he and that Hawks team as a whole, especially with John Collins in the fold. Now, they ended up losing their game last night. But you watch them and anybody that has gone out of their way

and seen the Hawks over the course of the last couple of months, they have been a very competitive team. near 500 over the course of the last couple of months. And Collins looks like a real one to be building around. I mean, this guy's almost, you know, he's a tick under 20 and 10 playing 30 minutes a night. Tray has looked better as the season has

gone on. You can tell he's figuring it out more and more. And I recently listened to the podcast. I believe at Woge did a podcast with Travis Slink, the GM there. Seemed like a very smart guy that had a very, very smart guy that really had a good grasp of team building and kind of, I don't know, I think, I think if you listen to it, at least when I listen to it, it would give me a lot of confidence about who is running my franchise because he explained things really well and kind of laid out, you know, their thought process on everything they've done. Because sometimes these teams that

are losing an infinite amount of games can feel like a rudderless shot. with not necessarily some kind of grand plan in mind. That is not the case when you listen to that guy talk. And obviously he came from the Golden State days. But he's got a couple really, really, really good young pieces in Young and Collins, it looks like. And then obviously they're going to have all kinds of draft picks and cap space. And it might not be that long of a rebuild from now because they've looked rather competitive over the last, you know, three to six. weeks.

For sure. They're one of the most fascinating teams for me entering the summer that I'm most interested in seeing what happens. You know, first of all, of course, with their draft picks, they have their own pick, which will have in all likelihood the fifth best odds at landing number one. And they'll also have the Dallas pick. It's top five protected. So they might not get it if it jumps up into the top four.

But assuming they keep their own pick, which would be in the top five-ish range, and then they have the Dallas pick at eight, nine, or ten or whatever, losing Luca Donchich. at all likelihood, it'll never look like a good decision for them making that deal. Would that said, the deal is not complete yet, right? We don't know what that other asset is that they're getting in return for him. We don't know what that player will develop into. It could be a nobody.

It could be a star. And I think what Schlank said either in that interview or something else at some point, the idea with the deal was to trade one promising young player for two promising young players. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, he said that, and I thought it was very smart. He knows that people are out there saying, how could you pass on Luca? And he said, it was a process-oriented deal where we said, if we could get another lottery pick, we would do it. And our projection said that Dallas would not be a playoff team the next year.

And he, in fact, said, we would have taken Luca and we would have kept Luca. But we had our mind made up that if we could get another lottery pick that we thought the difference was great enough, with that in mind for our future that we would do the deal. For sure. And obviously, that's the deal they got. And I think with Trey Young, the progress we've seen from him this season has been really encouraging. I remember after four or five games in October, I wrote an article on the ringer about

how, I think the headline was something like, Tray Young doesn't need to be Luca Dantzic or something like that for him to be a success. And from then on, I think maybe early November or so, his game just fell off. Like, he had a lot of super, super inefficient games. but this last month or so, these last six, seven weeks, he's just been tremendous. He's shooting 43% over his last 10 games from three. He's not getting blocked around the rim nearly as often

as he was early this season. I think he's improved his touch around the rim finishing against Link. That was something he needed to improve at. His shot, obviously with him, that is something that last night we saw the range when his shot is on that he can push it out to 28, 29 feet. But ultimately with him,

it's the passing that is, just it is his best skill. I know it sounds silly to say with all the talk last year at Oklahoma about his shooting and scoring, but his passing is extraordinary for a 20-year-old player. Some of the plays that he makes,

passing ahead, passing guys open, there's a play either last night or Saturday's game, I forget what it was, where he passed the ball to a corner three shooter when the guy wasn't even there. But he has a way of creating

layups and three-point shots for his teammates. And I get excited to thinking about what will he be able to do as a playmaker when he's surrounded by better talent. And he's already so good at making guys around him better. When the team, like, there's some nice young talent, but it's not a good team.

That's why they have the fifth best odds. Imagine what Tray Young can do as a passer when he has much better teammates than that's for Atlanta, what they'll try to get in the draft. And I'm also curious to see what they'll do in free agency as well, because they have been playing well.

They've been playing really hard. like you said, Chris, where maybe you do want to be a little bit aggressive signing a guy or a restricted free agent overpay a little bit for three years or something like that. I'm really interested to see what approach Schlank takes this summer, because I could see them going either way, staying young or trying to add one veteran and accelerate things here in the Eastern Conference. Well, no, it was a little unfair to him, all the Steph Curry stuff, because that's just a bar that's just, that's ridiculous for anybody.

It's one of the greatest players to ever play in the NBA. And so that was going to just hang around his neck. Every time people brought it up, it was wildly unfair. That being said, I watch him and like the progression that he has made. And if anybody will recall, this is exactly what happened with Curry, his rookie year. The explosion happened post-January, his rookie year, where he was given more opportunity and it really looked like he started to catch on to things. Obviously, we're seeing with Bagley right now in Sacramento.

We're seeing it with a lot of these rookies, right? That they're taking the step and that you can see that after about 60 games under their belt, they're starting to figure things out. You know, you get that grace period of the first 20 to 30, and sometimes all the way through the league, especially if it's a team you only see once. And then everybody starts to learn your moves. And so they guard you to make you uncomfortable. But then as you get with now we're down to the home stretch where most of these teams have 20 to 25 games left,

it's interesting to watch some of these rookies that you can really tell. Instead of hitting the wall, it's more that they're starting to really figure it out and what works best for them and kind of where they fit within the NBA game and with pick and rolls and with everything else. And you know what? I take a step back and I go, all right, it is exactly what. a lot of people said it was going to be, which is all of these guys are awesome. You look at the top five picks and you look at Aiton and you look at Bagley and you look at Donchich and you look at Sharon Jackson and you look at Trey Young.

Every one of them. I don't know if you redo it if that's the top five, but if you redo it, that's probably the top five. I mean, is there anything? In some order, you mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yes, you would shift the order. but I'm saying in terms of the five players that were drafted, one through five, do you think there's any other rookie that you would make the argument for

should be in that list now after watching them 60 games? Now, inevitably, somebody will, because, I mean, you get past those names. Mo Bamba, Hurt, Wendell Carter, hurt, Colin Sexton, figuring it out a little bit. He's been much better lately, too. Much better lately. Kevin Knox, McKell Bridges.

I mean, maybe Shay Gilges, but you're probably not taking him in top five. I mean, the five guys Maybe someday, but not yet. Or the five guys. Maybe someday Michael Porter, if he comes back healthy. But right now, yeah, those are the five. Which is pretty crazy, right?

Like usually there would be like a guy that got drafted eighth or something that you would say, you know, if you read it. Like last year. Yeah, right. But, I mean, after 60 games for the NBA to get it right, one through five, and again, as time goes on, we'll evaluate this in three years and maybe we'll say,

oh, geez, can you believe everybody missed on Miles Bridges, you know, or somebody like that, right? Yeah, it's interesting because we've had so many strong draft classes these last couple of years where rookies are contributing early, making a positive impact, looking like the next, you know, star or savior for their team. And in my article yesterday, it was about Zion Williamson and about changing the draft age from 19 to 18, like the NBA might do. It's interesting because drafts are trending younger as is, right?

even before possibly changing the age. Like last year's draft class is the youngest ever for the first round. And it's been trending that way since the 90s. Like every year it gets progressively and progressively younger. And right now with the nature of the game with more spacing and more shooting and, you know, you could argue, you know, defense has changed. It's less physical. You can call that less defense or just different defense.

But the game's different than it was before. And I think maybe that helps rookies. a little bit more where they're not quite as physically developed because you don't need to be to contribute as much. I'm not sure. I'm just throwing the idea out there, but I wonder if that's a factor. The less physical game, yes.

The other thing is, you know, when we talk about these guys being such assets with the way that you have so many guys in the league that once the cap went up, you got some of these exorbitant contracts and a lot of these teams have like anvils around their neck with some kind of bad. contract that the asset is so good that you want to be able to maximize it for the four years while

you've got them on some kind of reasonable contract. And so player development has become a much bigger deal. And you think about the shift years ago, God, I can't remember. It's probably five or six years ago now. I don't know. What year is Capella in? Is Capella in his fifth year? Something like that? He was the 14 drafts. Okay. So, all right, whenever he was a rookie, right, there was a time because I remember covering this series and there's a series between the Grizzlies and Golden State. And Grizzly fans were going crazy because Dave Yeager was not playing a kid that they drafted in the first round, Jordan Adams, right? He wasn't even playing. And I went and did who obviously flamed out because of injury. But I had, I went and did this like mini research project

and I was like, okay, is this rare? And what I found at the time, and anybody could go back and look at this at the time the teams that were in the playoffs that year western conference and eastern conference there was one player one that was a rookie that was playing legitimate minutes for anybody and it was a guy who had not played the entire year for the most part and it was capella he was the only one kevin that was playing on like getting real minutes or any minutes for that matter on a team that was a playoff team as a rookie. And you look now, I mean, hell, Jordan Bell started in the

finals last year. I mean, you see it all over. There's all kinds of, there's all kinds of playoff teams. And now Jordan Bell has fallen off a bit. Like, you can go the other way too. Yeah, but you do have a lot of rookies playing for good teams now. And just five years ago, there was

not one that was getting minutes for a good team. It's fascinating how this has just really distorted our view of young players. It's like with DeAnd Russell Russell, like the expectation when he struggled early during the Kobe farewell tour and then, you know, the changes the following season, it's taken him a while to become the player that he is now for the Brooklyn Nets. And like, man, Russell's awesome. Like, he's a really good offensive player.

He still needs to make strides at finishing around the rim and his defense can still be more consistent. But he's really good. And we look at this, it's like when we're rushing development because we're seeing so many other young guys produce so early when really like you still need patience. with young players. Because it gets, it gets murdered by a guy like Donovan Mitchell

being the best player on a playoffs team last year. I know. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's not real. Like, that just doesn't happen. Your go-to scorer

is not a rookie. Or Luca Dodger's putting up triple doubles. I know. And, like, just leading his team, not just putting up numbers, but leading the Dallas Mavericks.

It distorts the view of your expectations and, you know, hopes for a young player. When really, you still need to be patient even though a lot of young players are producing more often at younger ages. You had written, and I want to touch on this before we get out of here today,

you had written about that NBA draft, the changes, and then the abolition of the age limit. And you went and talked to all manner of people to try to get opinions on this. After you gathered all of the opinion, because you went on a fact-finding mission, and you take a step back and decide whether or not you think this is, good or bad for the NBA. Your own, Kevin O'Connor's personal opinion on it. What is your opinion?

Yeah, I'll give me an article. I didn't really insert my personal opinion quite as much. That's why I'm asking. I just sort of put it, you know, just left it open like based on what NBA people said. But I think for me, Chris, I tend to side with whatever helps the game, right? And for me, I think from a business perspective,

I understand the risks that a lot of executives shared with allowing younger players it could dilute the talent, you know, having younger guys who aren't ready to contribute. And I definitely, you know, understand that. But I do think ultimately it's the right moral choice to allow them to go straight to the league. I think for that reason alone, I'm in favor of. But from a business perspective, I think the game can be at its best if you're able to just continue growing the game with these young guys and, you know, continuing to improve the G-League system. And maybe someday in the distant future, expanding to 32 teams, you know, going to Mexico City.

have a team like in Seattle. I think long-term, having a stronger, deeper league where the NBA is investing in the younger players at younger ages, whether it's through USA basketball, improving the AAU system, having these camps and tournaments that the NBA wants to run for younger high school players, I think the greater the investment in these kids, the greater their potential reward for the league as a whole. So I think short-term, there's some concern, you know, with a possible influx. of young players entering the league when they're not quite ready.

But with the right rules put in there, maybe like having NHL style allowing them to go back to college if they don't want to come straight to the NBA, things like that I think could allow this to be obviously advantageous for the NBA to allow high school players to enter straight into the league. It's best for the players to have that freedom of choice. And I think long term, there's a lot for the NBA to gain from having them go straight to the league.

certainly some pretty good success stories that have just been fine not going to college including Kobe Bryant LeBron James Dwight Howard Kevin Garnett I mean it's worked out for some guys People always bring up the

what happens when the guys don't make it Yeah what about the Hall of Famer No kidding and that's what it comes down to Like I think the executives often say Like there's more variants in the draft There will be more steals and busts And yeah that's 100% true So what

So what you know I don't necessarily mind that I think there are also be a greater reward for better scouting as well, where if you are able to get an edge like the spurs have with international basketball for so many years, I think teams that might have an edge scouting high school basketball, that will be rewarded. And maybe the counterarguments that as well, teams that don't have the money to invest are putting out disadvantage, small market teams, but I don't think that's necessarily true. San Antonio is not a big market by any means,

and yet they've just nailed international draft picks for two decades and free agent, I think the game will obviously change drastically if it eventually does change, which I think it will. But I think long term, it will be for the best for the league and best for the players. All right. There are great NBA games going on tonight, which leads us to our NBA watch of the night, Oklahoma City at Denver. That is the game on TNT. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, you could subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com or your preferred video provider.

Let's talk about this, Kev. Oak City at Denver. This has been two outstanding teams, probably two home court advantage teams. And it feels like over the course of the last week, Paul George, he vaulted himself into the conversation with Janice and James Harden as an MVP candidate. Obviously, had this MVP moment with his teardrop game winner against Utah and double overtime. he has been totally awesome who guards him for Denver that's a great question Chris you know and it's a good question

because in their prior two matchups Denver won both and in those games Wancho Hernan Gomez and Torrey Craig were the primary defenders of Paul George they defended him for 96 and 25 possessions respectively everybody else was a combined 40 positions and yet when that happened

when those games were played those guys were both starting and playing 30, 35 minutes per game, and now they're both, not out of the rotation, but they're playing a combined like 25 minutes, 12, 13 minutes each. So for them, I do wonder, what's the call here, right? Do you go with a smaller guy with, you know, Barton or Harris trying to size up against Paul George, or you go with a bigger guy like Paul Millsap

and then hide the smaller guy on Grant? It's going to be fascinating to see how Denver does defend him in tonight's game because if they do play eventually in the playoffs, as the two and three seed maybe, it'll indicate what we'll see moving forward in a playoff series. I think ultimately it's not a one-man job. You're going to need multiple guys here, some Millsap, some Harris, some Barton,

but they don't necessarily have a guy who can lock him down. Hernigoma is not that guy either. I don't think you would put him back in the rotation just to have him on Paul George. I think it's going to be a mixture of people. To your point, this could easily be, a Western semis matchup. What a serious that would be, huh?

Oh, Thunder, Denver, for sure. Yeah. Obviously, Thunder have, they've got players with a lot more playoff experience under their belt than do the Nuggets. But the Nuggets, probably a lot of people, including myself, that were wondering, is this really going to sustain itself? This whole year, they withstood all those injuries throughout the year. Unbelievable. And have just kept on trucking, and you look, they have, they have in 41 and 8.

And they have won four in a row going into tonight. And you know this. If they catch home court advantage, that's a city that has been starved for playoff basketball for a long time now. And they have only lost four games in that arena the entire year up to this point. They are 26 and 4. It's a good crowd there in Denver. When I was there for my Denver Nuggett story with the Yogy feature in there as well, that Denver crowd is really good. They're a great crowd when they face Portland. Against Golden State, a lot of

warriors, fans travel there like they do a lot of places, but against Portland, they were loud, they were crazy. It was a good, good atmosphere. I can only imagine. Everybody's got to be in a good mood all the time there, right? If you're in a bad mood, you just walk to the dispensary. Yeah, then get some munchies and, you know, eat at the game, watch some good basketball. Sounds like a good night. Hey, and if you lose, it don't feel that bad either. Man, 41 and 18 is awesome, man. Yeah, frigging 70% winning percentage is unbelievable.

You are something else. That is going to do it for our show today. Thanks to Isaac Lee. Thanks to you, Kevin O'Connor. Thanks to you, Chris. Most of all, to all of you that are listening to us, If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps.

And we will talk to you next week.