The Ringer NBA Show - As NBA Players Protest Police Brutality Around the Country, the League Is Locking in Its Return Plan | The Mismatch

Episode Date: June 3, 2020

We discuss the sweeping condemnation of police brutality from NBA players and the NBA community—in line with nationwide protests over the last week—and what it means to even think or talk about the return of basketball in this moment (0:39). Then we go over reports about the league’s plan to return in late July and the board of governors meeting tomorrow that will dictate the terms of that return (10:08). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And typically he joins me on Tuesdays, but yesterday we did not have a show, given everything that is taking place in the world today. You may have seen a lot of your favorite shows take off and be part of Blackout Tuesday, as were we. But today, we have NBA news. We have been spending an incredible amount of time waiting to see if the NBA was going

to be coming back. Now, given the circumstances of that. of the world today, Kev. While we do have news to talk about today, you know, you saw Patrick Beverly tweeting earlier today when this news broke that basketball, that's not it right now. And there are a lot bigger things going on in the world than when the NBA is coming back. But we do do the NBA show here. And so we did want to fill people in on the news and also what we think about the season returning. But clearly, this is secondary on every everybody's mind, including those within the league.

Since we last spoke on Friday, it's been, it's been incredibly inspiring seeing guys like Jalen Brown and Malcolm Brogden and Matisse Thibel and Justin Anderson and Ben Simmons out there on the streets or using their platforms on social media to speak out against police brutality and racial inequality and the murder of George Floyd. you know, I don't, I don't know why basketball is coming back. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel about doing my job with all that's going on right now. I just, I don't know. And I feel like a lot of players feel the same way.

You see Patrick Beverly tweeting out today after the report about the game coming back and how it might look. He said, you know, basketball is not important right now. It's just not. And I feel that too. But I can't help but feel inspired seeing the amount of players out there using their platforms to try and make a positive difference in this world. You know, we've talked for the past couple months, Chris, with the coronavirus pandemic, about how basketball returning would be sort of like a signal that society has made some

progress moving forward and, you know, in some sense of normalcy. and that still stands true with the pandemic happening. But right now I'm sort of feeling like I hope basketball coming back can be something that serves and puts a spotlight on players to have an even louder voice and to be something that helps spread more good and to help make more positive change because there's so much that needs to change. But in order for things to change, there needs to be leaders. And we're seeing guys like Jalen Brown and Malcolm Brock and step up and speak in a

way that people listen, people listen. And I only can hope that when basketball does return, if it can return safely because of the pandemic, I hope a lot of people out there are listening with open hearts and open ears. And I hope the NBA can be something more than any of us could have ever expected for making change in the world. And maybe that's just an optimist in me, because there's so many issues that are complicated to talk about, complicated to solve. And many of them have never been solved for decades and hundreds of years. But I just hope basketball can be something that is more than just a round ball going into a hoop whenever it does come back in July. But as you said with so many, and we have talked so many times about when you walk into NBA locker rooms,

how many good guys there are throughout the league and how many thoughtful guys that there are throughout the league. And you have seen so many of them, in fact, a majority. use their platform and use their voice for good throughout this time. And I've talked about this many times. Everybody that listens knows. I have a young son who is 10 years old. And guess what? His biggest heroes outside of his dad, I hope, are NBA players and former NBA players. And I think that when these guys, I think even when you and I were growing up, somebody speaking out on social issues, it was not necessarily rare,

but everybody did know that that was the guy that is speaking out on something. And now it's almost as if who is the guy not speaking up about something because now, given social media, given the platforms that all of these guys have and that how much they love their teammates, that they all in solid,

solidarity, then use their voice. And I cannot tell, it becomes immensely powerful towards, there are some people that you cannot change. But there's, there's a whole generation of people that look up to these guys so much and the idea that then they hear that message and they take that message very, very seriously, because those are the people that they look up to, um, these athletes. And so when they, they have this power to really alter people's thinking and make it real to people. And I think that there has been, I think, I think that history is going to look back on this time where it's not like just that guy or that guy, was the guy brave enough to speak out

that now you're seeing a sea change where athletes are using their platforms. And NBA players, specifically as we talk about on this show, you see them out marching with people. I saw Dirk Novitsky was helping clean up the city of Dallas yesterday. and on and on, it is ingrained. Societal issues have never been hard for the NBA to tackle in the first place. They have clearly been bolder than many of their peers. Sure.

Whether it's an I Can't Breathe shirt or whether it's a Trayvon Martin hoodie photo that I recall was so powerful when the heap put it out when LeBron and D. Wade were there. And now you have seen it almost becomes overwhelming how many are willing to speak up and how much. much, how much that can change people's thought processes. Because these are guys that they love and they root for and the idea that they feel some kind of way, almost in unison, should make everybody incredibly disappointed and understand that that can't be so. I don't care what your politics are. I don't care what you believe in. That cannot be so. We can't have people in this country when they see the lights in their rearview mirror being terrified. That cannot be. And so I've been you know there obviously has been disappointment that has taken place when you see people

whose businesses are ruined or whatever else but I am heartened by the fact of how many of these people that my son has their jersey and looks up to that the message that they spread and their ability to use their platform I will tell you that is extremely profound yeah I mean And I think, you know, that that's where like I think about it for like, especially the youth, you know, if there's a young basketball fan out there and he sees some of his favorite players or she sees some of her favorite players, you know, speaking out about the issues that matter and the issues that can make this world in this country a better place for everybody. That even if they have surrounding influences, if they grew up in like a 99% white town, you know, and if their parents are like are racist or even a lot of. little prejudice. You know, I'm doing quotation marks when I say that. If they had, if their favorite players are talking about these things, that maybe that kid, regardless of the people around them and their life is going to grow up to be accepting and inclusive and to

truly, truly always practice equality and whatever, wherever their life takes them. You know, there's a lot that needs to change immediately with the current people that are in power, but there's also a lot that needs to change over time with the youth that are eventually going to become young adults and that are eventually going to become people who are actually in the workforce and actually have a vote. So I can only hope that basketball, whether it's with older people or whether it's with the youth, like you mentioned young kids. I don't, to me, like it feels less important than ever that basketball comes back. but in some ways I retain you know maybe this is the optimist of me like I said but I retained some hope that it can also become more important than ever in ways that we don't expect or didn't expect because of the way these players you know are already doing so much good and already have done so much good in past years when we've had situations with protests like Ferguson you know you mentioned the I can't breathe shirts yeah I hope this turns into something that that is powerful and impactful in the world. And who knows, maybe it just turns out just to be basketball.

And that's all it is. But, and maybe, like, there's some good that can come from just basketball, too. But I don't think it's going to be. I don't think, I don't think these players, you know, with the platforms that they have and when the power that they wield to influence change are going to pass on an opportunity to do that. And I think when basketball comes back, we're going to see something very, very powerful in the world.

And I just hope that it makes a lasting impact for the things that need to change in society. Very well said. There has been news about a return to a basketball court and that it is going to happen. We still got a long ways off until we're watching a basketball game, Kev. July 31st, a long ways away. That is a long way away. But they're talking about teams starting to work out and then having camps at the beginning of July. and then there would be the resumption of play at the end of July when you see the tentative calendar.

Because this is clearly, who knows what the future of what's going to happen with football. You know what I mean? That's obviously a topic here. And you wonder what the overlap is going to be, if football is going to be starting on time. We don't know about their plans too. But clearly it is a different point in the calendar than what is typical for the NBA. And they're talking about the end of July to. you know, the first part of October.

Sometime in October. Yeah, date to be determined in October. But like one thing I just want to hit, though, is with the potential proposal that Adam Silver is supposed to deliver to the Board of Governors meeting on Thursday, it's the 22 teams, which is the Portland Trailblazers, New Orleans Pelicans, San Antonio Spurs, Sacramento Kings, Washington Wizards, and Phoenix Suns would be the additional six teams in addition to the eight current playoff teams in each conference. And the way the play in tournament would work is that if the nine seed is within four games

after the eight games played, then a play in tournament would be played. It would be single elimination. So let's say, for example, the grizzlies, the eight seed face the pelicans, the nine seed. If the grizzlies win once, they're in. They're the eight seed. If the pelicans win once, they have to win again in order to get in to the eight seed. seed in playing a typical seven game series. So that is the potential proposal that Adam Silver will deliver on Thursday at the

board of governor's meeting. Okay. Well, obviously I was going to be everybody that listens to this podcast knows. I care deeply about what happens with that particular Grizzlies team. And, you know, we've talked about how all they want Zion and Brian Winhorse went on ESPN saying the NBA needs to try to find a way to get Zion Williams into this thing. And it was like, hey, when the season ended, the Grizzies had a three and a half game lead on everyone. And I will tell you, coming from that perspective, I don't think, I don't think they were screwed in the least, honestly.

Like, I think this is, what's fair is fair. Yeah, everybody's going to have eight games. If you can't, you have the opportunity to extend that lead. So if you are good enough, extend the lead. And then you're not, you don't even have to play in a play in. And honestly, the only opportunity. for them not to be in a play in is if if they go say three and five in those games, which is a crappy record, right?

Two other teams would have to go seven and one in order for them to not be in a play in. You know, and so you've got that opportunity to, like you have every opportunity to make the playoffs. And then even if it comes down to that and a team does go seven and one and you go three and five and they overtake you, well, look, now you've got to play your way in. you've got a chance to go, you've got a chance to make it. I don't, I don't particularly have any issue with, I think that's fair, especially with the double elimination thing, that's, that is fair to a team that had built up a three and a half game lead.

I was surprised, you know, with the whole 22, Phoenix needs to send an entire gift box to Washington. Because doesn't this feel like, how do we get another West team, or how do we get another East team in? Well, if we're going to get another East team in, then we've got to add. Because, I mean, that's, what if Phoenix is going to go eight? No? You know what I'm saying? Like, I mean, and then the other teams are all going to, I mean, their opportunity to make it to even a play end game is just like infinitesimal. But it feels like they didn't want to have just West teams involved.

And so Phoenix gets the benefit of them adding Washington into this mix. Well, I've heard that the original proposal that the NBA plan. on going with last week was 20 teams that this current proposal wouldn't have included Washington and Phoenix and that within 24 hours before that meeting last week that they changed it to 22 to include Washington and Phoenix both of whom did want to play moving forward because they feel like they have a shot you know rightfully so or not you know because they want more games played for financial reasons and so on and so forth you know it's been reported by Woj and Lo that these other teams that won't play or won't be invited

to Disney World want to have some sort of way to play this summer, whether it's a fall camp or whatever. That's another issue for another day. But that was one of the reasons I think for the NBA that these two teams, look, Phoenix was a half game back from the other teams that are in it. With Phoenix, I can understand why they would at least want an opportunity despite the fact that the odds are against them. Because if you get hot, if you get really hot here, maybe you do play your way into that nine seed, as unlikely as it might be.

But I don't have, I mean, my preference was the group stage. You and I talked about that back and forth. I don't have many issues with this. I don't get like super stoked about it. I'm stoked, you know, that basketball could be back. But the format itself, it's great, you know, cool. They get to experiment with the playing tournament. And with the group stage that we outlined on last week's show.

hopefully, you know, for the NBA, that with the positive reaction to it, with the interest that there was from teams, that they would potentially use that as a format for an in-season tournament in the future, that that could be the type of thing and format and structure that they use for an in-season tournament. And the playing tournament could be used this summer as a way to see how it works out for potential seasons. So in that sense, I'm glad that the NBA and, you know, teams are willing to experiment with this type of format. And it is fair in the sense that with every team only playing eight more games, they're going to get, you know, to like 72 to 75 games total.

This format for the play in sort of can simulate the end season playoff race that would have occurred. If Memphis is up only two games on New Orleans or Orlando's only up three games on Washington at the end of the eight games, if there had been 10 more games remaining in the season, the plan sort of gives you an idea of, you know, or at least in a fair way, simulates what might have happened. Well, and it's perfect, but it's, it's solid. It does the job for me personally.

To me, I don't think you can complain because they gave you the opportunity. It is double elimination if you're the one in the lead. And so that to me, look, who are you? When? You got to win one game. You got to win one game. There's nobody to complain to. You know what I mean?

And you can lose twice. And you still just have to win one game. So, I mean, you've got built-in advantages in order to be a – you're given all manner of opportunity to keep your slot, you know. And it's up to you. I mean, like, you compete for this stuff. Now, what's going to be fascinating is how the eight games lay out. Vincent Goodwill from Yahoo reported that,

The initial plan is for whatever your next eight games were when the season ended, then that's what you are going to play. And if you do play somebody that's not there, if you are playing against an Atlanta or Chicago or a Knicks or whatever it may be, that you would just move on to the next game. Now, clearly everybody's going to be doing a deep dive into. Let's give an example of that. Let's give one quick example, just so people understand.

So for Memphis, for example, their schedule would be straight through as planned. Portland, Utah, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Milwaukee, New Orleans, New Orleans, Boston. Correct, Chris? Yeah, that would be Memphis's schedule, right? If you pull up New Orleans, this is not good for New Orleans. Because New Orleans, their schedule, the next eight is not nearly, they had just gone on a road trip when this thing ended. it was the very end of their schedule that was absolute cake.

Like the last couple weeks. It was the last 14 for them, right? Yeah. And so this portion of the schedule, this is not an easy, it does not replicate the fact that they had a very easy schedule the rest of the way, right? Because that, you know, you do wonder, especially if you're going to be a conspiracy theorist, oh, is New Orleans going to have the easiest eight games ever? Well, truth be told, no matter what kind of.

combination of these teams. There's no crappy, crappy teams there. There's no crappy teams there. Like, you can't play the worst of the worst because you've got the top 22 teams there. So you've got a really high percentage of your games being against over 500 teams

at the very least. And for what it's worth, this stuff right now is what is currently what's going to happen. It's not finalized. Yeah, right, right. This stuff can still change even after the board of governor's meeting tomorrow, that, you know, maybe teams come back and they hear this plan.

They're like, you know what? Why, you know, why would New Orleans go in there tomorrow and be like, yeah, we're cool with this? Right. Why would they do that? Because if this is the schedule, for them, it would be Sacramento, Utah, Clippers. They would skip the Hawks, San Antonio, Memphis, Sacramento, Memphis. They would skip the Knicks and then face Orlando.

Right. And for them, they might go in there tomorrow and be like, why aren't the schedules waited to best represent the remaining strength of season schedule. Because there's no way to, though, when you've got the best 22 teams. Well, I mean, these schedule makers are magicians. They can make something work. They can make whatever you need to work.

Hey, then what they're going to do is they're going to say that. And then the NBA is going to say, you know what? We'd love to have Zion in the playoffs anyway. You play the Wizards eight times. I mean, there's nobody else shitty to play, Kev. seriously. Yeah. Like all these teams are pretty good

and everybody's going to be healthy by the time this comes around. There is a limit to how easy your schedule can possibly be when you're throwing the eight worst teams out of the mix, you know? You know,

you know what would be fascinating, though, is if the NBA does go with this as planned. And the first game back is Jazz Thunder. If that's the first game. Oh, wow.

If that could be the first one, and then Pelicans Kings, which was also postponed that night, but if that were the case, you would have jazz, Thunder, and then Pelicans, Kings,

you would also have Celtics, Bucks, which were going to play Thursday, March 12th, that night, you would have Grizzlies, Blazers,

you'd have, and then Rockets, Lakers. That'd be a pretty loaded first day schedule. Yeah. You know, I'm just saying,

like, if you do resume the schedule, those, a handful of games, among others, um, for the NBA, and look,

I'd be, I'd be into watching that that day for sure. Look, Kev, we have focused on the playoff spots, but the truth is those eight games also give a tremendous amount of opportunity for jockeying for seating, you know, in this thing. And it's not clearly home court advantage is not, that's not the advantage that you would have any other year. But it certainly matters greatly if you are Philly,

you know, would you rather play Indiana or would you rather play Miami, right? Who could drop down to me? You've got these teams that are bunched up and certainly in the West, I think there's only from Denver down to, you know, like Dallas. It's like, what, two and a half games or something? So, I mean, a lot of stuff could be moved around seating-wise, even in the course of eight games, especially if they're all playing each other. Yeah, exactly.

And you mentioned Dallas, for example, you know, they have games against a bunch of potential a playoff teams. Phoenix, Clippers, Kings, Blazers, Phoenix again, Rockets, Jazz. For them, I mean, there could be a lot of shuffling that happens. Right now, they're the seventh seed. Right. They're the seventh seed right now. But over those next eight games, there are only two and a half games back from Utah at the four spot. Right. That's not a lot of time to move up three spots, but, you know, if you get a hot streak here going into the postseason, um, you could get better seating. But the thing is, though, is like, how much does seating really matter in the West? Okay. I mean, like, it matters in terms of like what side of the bracket you're on.

If you're on the, the Lakers side or the Clippers side, but you're still going to get a tough opponent regardless in the first round. And for them, like, yes, you'd rather not face the clippers in the first round. You'd rather be the six seed and face Denver. And that's where things get really, really interesting from a seating standpoint. But regardless of where you are, this is still going to be damn tough in the West. Oh, yeah, but look, it'll also be tough in the East. Let me tell you, I brought up a hypothetical of like, if Miami played against Philly,

guess who doesn't want that happening? Milwaukee. Because whoever wins that series is feeding into, right? They'd much rather have Philly playing against, like if, and I'm saying if Philly moved up to five, they'd much rather have Boston and Philly and whoever wins that than going and playing against Toronto, right, than having a Miami,

Miami, Philly and having to face, you know, a team that, like, both those teams, theoretically could be very good playoff teams. Like, they're built for that kind of, and they're certainly built for playing against Janus and being able to throw all manner of players at Janus. You know, that's what they've loaded up for. And you've got that size with the 76ers. And so in that sense, it does matter because, you know, you'd much rather have a four or five situation that is not going to feed you who could possibly be, you know, the most dangerous

team to you. And we don't know. I mean, we don't know. We'll see how the matchups play out. But certainly some of those teams are pretty equipped to be able to give them a hard time. I don't know, you know, I think that in the West, honestly, Kev, I feel like those two LA teams are just such prohibitive favorites. The idea of either of them getting knocked off seems...

extreme long shot to me. It's all silly, Chris. I'm not a fan of these goofy proposals from teams. I thought it was a joke to read. I thought it was, I mean, Dave's reporting is awesome. But like, come on, man. This is like onion quality proposals from the NBA teams.

You don't think that they should be given any type of advantage for being one of the home court teams. Here's the one that I'm into. Only one of them. By the way, the goofiest one was them. saying they get to choose their hotel where they stay at before any other teams. Like, you would draft your hotels or like bring your home court to Orlando and have that installed before ever game.

I mean, it's just those are goofy. But the one that I'm into is the first one that I mentioned. Higher seated team is awarded the first possession of the second, third, and fourth quarters following the traditional jump ball to begin the game. I say that one is interesting. That one's cool with me. If the lower seated team gets it in games three, four, and six. so the higher-seated team could get it for their original home games,

but the lower-seated team would get it for their three games and a traditional seven-game series. That one's cool to me. I guess what are we even doing here? I guess there is like, you know, the whole wanting to start a game with a jump ball. I would be fine with them saying they just throw it in under the basket to start the game. They get it all four. They get it all four quarters.

That's fine by me. I think, and I do think that that is a, like, a lot of these games can be, especially in a playoff case, can be decided by possession. And so I do think that's valuable. Yeah, the coach's challenge thing and the bring your home court down there. I mean, that is outrageous.

That is some of these. That's goofy. Yeah, nobody cares. You can designate one player. So you're telling me like, with this proposal, the Lakers could have LeBron go to seven files instead of like, that's stupid. You know,

but the possessions, one is intriguing for what would have been home games for each respective team. That one I'm cool with. The other ones now. The only thing that I did like about the seven foul thing that I thought would be humorous is if you got to designate that it would be funny to see how many are not used on who you would think they would be used on. Like, you know, the best player.

Because LeBron doesn't foul out of games, Kevin. Like he just doesn't file out of games, right? So do you give the seven fouls to Dwight Howard? Or if you're, you know, Houston, do you not give it to Westboro? Rook and Harden, but give it to PJ Tucker so he can, you know, so he can roughs, or does Pat Bev get it for the clippers? Because he's getting in foul trouble. I mean, it's fascinating to think about how that would be used if you did give them a player that could get a seventh foul. But I do, I do think that there should be some kind of advantage, given that you're having to play this on

neutrals with no fans, I don't have great answers. I don't, the best of which we agree on, give them more possessions. Right. The possession one is fair. But like I said, not for all the games, not for games one through seven, just for games one to five and seven. Because those would have been their four home games. So you give them the equivalent or near equivalent of the statistical advantage that teams historically have at their home arenas and playoffs. That to me is fair.

And I'd be cool with that. But all the other ones, I mean, like Dave, like did a great job reporting this because I read those last night. And my reaction was like, are you serious? And my second reaction was sort of what we opened up the show with in the sense that like this is so unimportant. And there's so many more important things right now. I'm going to go back to watching the protests in my home city of Brockton Mass right now. I can go to bed. But yeah, we'll see what happened.

The one thing. There's a lot. There's a lot that can change. It is tremendous reporting. I will say, Kevin, I laughed out loud at the transport your home court down there. I mean, who even, like, who even brings that up? Who even says, like, you know, we could just bring our whole court down there? I mean, do you know how many people are involved in that and having to ship it down there?

Like, your own court? Like, bro, if you're going to do that, they'd like swap out a decal in the middle of the court, right? Swap out a decal of the middle of the court. I found it ridiculous because, you know, all this talk about, all this talk about player safety. Yeah. And then you're adding more people to have to ship and install a new basketball court. I mean, that's just stupid, man. And like, by the way, today, today there's been no talk really about, you know,

the importance of player safety and testing protocols. We've hit that a bunch over the past month. I reported that story a couple of weeks ago. But I'm a bit surprised about how little that has been a discussion when it comes to specifically about the NBA today with like the pandemic is still happening right now. And for the NBA, that is the most important thing when it comes to having games played safely. There's a lot of time between now and July 31st. And players will test positive.

It's just a matter of how many do. And for the NBA, getting those protocols right is the most important thing for getting these players, these coaches, these executives, whoever's there, whatever personality of media is allowed, whoever it is, that is the number one thing to make sure and assure safety for the players and their families and everybody else connected with what's happening at Disney World in July and August, September, however long the games happen. So I've been a little bit surprised about the lack of conversation around that. But then again, for the NBA, that is not finalized either.

They're still figuring out before July, you know, whenever players go to Disney World, mid-July, the best way to do that. So there's still time to go for those plans to be fine. of lies. I guess I'm just a little personally surprised at the lack of conversation about it today. Yeah. Also, I mean, I couldn't help but think about that regarding how long somebody's going to be there. Like, let's say, let's say you think the Lakers are the, the favorites. Three months. That's a long time to. Yeah. That is a long time. To be stuck at Disney World. I kind of, I mean, with like, with a pandemic happening with so many more important things happening in the world right now.

I just got to figure this would be quicker, didn't you? I figured that they would be, that this would happen, like it would be condensed more and happen quicker than the way it's going to end up playing out. Just the amount of sheer time. That is a long time to have, you know, at least two teams, at least two of them are going to be down there for three months. Sure. And, you know, and that's where, like, I go back to what I said at the beginning of the show,

but, like, I hope basketball can be, you know, something that inspires positive change around the world. But part of me is like, so you're telling me if, you know, if let's say, let's just say it's a Celtics Lakers final. You have Jaylen Brown, who has been one of the leaders and speaking about, you know, racial inequality and police brutality and all these issues that matter right now. And then you have LeBron James, who has always used this platform and many different ways across over the years. You're telling me, like for Jalen Brown and LeBron James and all the other players on those teams that want to make a difference, the best place for them to be would be at Disney World.

I'm not so sure that's necessarily the case. And I'm sure they don't necessarily think so either. So in some ways, I hope basketball can be a great overall thing. In other ways, I'm like, geez, to be stuck at Disney World for three months when, in all likelihood, a lot of the stuff isn't going to go away anytime soon with the protests and with the pandemic. Yeah, but I, I, in one way, though, the amount, the amount of people that are going to be watching this and the amount of attention that they will have from literally all

over the world, Kevin, when they get in front of microphones at podiums and they have the opportunity that they, you know, it's one thing if you, if you, like you and I are caught in the bubble, right? You know, we see everything that these guys are, are doing. But if you don't follow him on social media, you're not on social media all the time. Does some guy, you know, in, does some guy in Kansas City know how active Jalen Brown's been and how passionate he's been? If he's not, if he just doesn't, he's not big. You know what I'm saying?

If he's, if he's got. I'm not sure that. I'm not sure that guy's going to get that anyway, though, because right now you see on the news. But I know, like, what I'm saying is like, you're right that he, there's a higher percent chance that that person gets. message if LeBron James has the platform that basketball would provide. But also, you could say that some of these mainstream news stations are showing videos of looters rather than some of the peaceful protest, that they're spending the majority of their time talking about some of the negative that has happened rather than some of the positive. They're spending most, not all of them,

but a lot of the time they're spending and putting attention on the reaction rather than why people are reacting in the first place. And I do, wonder, though, that platform people have, we're going to hear it. You know, people on Twitter are going to hear it. People that want to hear it are going to hear it. But is someone that, you know, watches certain news stations, you know, that wouldn't put that side out there, put that out there just because basketball is being played? I'm not so sure. And I hope that would happen. And I hope that message would be received. But like if, if players start kneeling before the national anthem, let's just say that happens. If everybody in the league in solidarity

doing what Colin Kaepernick did years ago. That is not going to be portrayed as, you know, they're doing this to raise awareness against Palo's brutality of racial inequality and all these other issues that people are talking about and protesting about right now. For some of these news stations, it's going to be portrayed as,

look at these disrespectful NBA players, you know, disrespecting the flag. We even had Drew Brees today. Drew Brees today said, like, he will never support anybody that kneels during the national anthem. even though yesterday he posted the black, you know, square on Instagram in support of a blackout Tuesday. That, that would happen, you know, and for that guy that you're talking about who otherwise wouldn't have seen it. And that's where I still have some concerns and hesitations about

will the message be received. I don't know. All I know is the optimist in me says that players overall, there's going to be a large amount of people who don't care or don't notice or disagree with it, but there's going to be a lot of people, and I hope there's going to be a lot of people that otherwise wouldn't have received the message, especially with the youth, will receive that message. And that's where I overall side on the optimistic side of basketball returning, but there is part of me that's like, I don't know if even with that, like the best use of a player's time on a personal level would be like live streaming on

Instagram Live from Disney World or speaking at the podium, rather than being out there with people actually doing hands-on work, especially with three months away starting in mid-July until sometime in October. I don't know. I don't know. We don't know what's going to happen moving forward. We don't know what this is going to look like two weeks from now. We don't know what it's going to look like two days from now.

We just don't know with the pandemic or the protests. We have no idea. But that's just been something on my mind when it comes to basketball returning, feeling less important than ever, more potentially more important than ever too. I think so too. Kev, we are going to see what the Board of Governors does with all this tomorrow.

They're going to vote on this. And so we discussed what at least has been reported as somewhat specifics, but we don't know yet. And obviously you and I will reconvene after the vote is made. And we have some finality to how this is all going to look and how this is all going to play out, assuming that this NBA season is going to get played. and it will get played starting at the end of July, which is a,

I mean, it's a long time away, man. It's still a long time away. It's still a long time away. Sure is, man. Yeah,

but look, hey, look, here's what we know. The world's in a different place every 48 to 72 hours, it seems. I swear, 2020 can go to hell.

Just the worst. Yeah. I hope that, I hope that, you know, you're always, you're always optimistic about things. as am I, and I'm hoping better days are ahead to say the least. I don't know. I mean,

you say I'm an optimist, but I've always fancied myself a realist. You know, it's impossible to know where things will go. But I can only hope, like, despite all the bad that has happened in 2020, I still see images of, you know, hundreds and thousands of people across the country and across the world, for that matter. You're seeing protests in other countries, too. People standing up for George Floyd, people, you know, protesting against police brutality, protesting against racial inequality around the world. And I can only hope that, you mentioned how bad 2020's been. I can only hope like by 2021 that the world overall can be a better place. I don't know if it will be. But I can only hope that,

that a lot of people are going to be able to connect through all, everything that's happening. to us as a world with the pandemic and with the protests. I can only hope that that things become better. And we just don't know, though, but we don't know. But it's inspiring to see the amount of people out there who are uniting over this and are speaking out about it and are truly feeling empowered, you know, on an individual level and a collective level that their voices matter because they do. They do matter.

And, you know, we're seeing that change on local levels as well with some of the elections that happened yesterday with the charges against the cops in Minneapolis that went down today against the three other cops. Your voices matter. So I can't help but feel a bit inspired that some people are feeling that sense of empowerment from everything happening. So the 2020 sucks, you know, like you said, for many, many reasons. But I can only hope that some good comes out of it. You and me too. We'll talk again on Friday. Hopefully we'll have some specifics that we can let everybody know about,

but we agreed almost entirely today. Again, yeah, that's two on a free shows, Chris. You know the world's changing, right? If you and me are firing it up and then just agreeing on these podcasts, right? Welcome to the match. Yeah. That's going to do it for us. Thanks for listening to another episode of The Ringer NBA show,

and we will talk to you on Friday.