The Ringer NBA Show - Assessing the Best Anthony Davis Trade Packages | Group Chat (Ep. 378)

Episode Date: January 31, 2019

We pore over the myriad teams that could offer a reasonable package for Anthony Davis: chief among them the Lakers and Celtics, but maybe equally as intriguing, the dark horse Clippers and Raptors. Disclaimer: This podcast was recorded prior to the Kristaps Porzingis trade news. For more on that, tune into 'The Bill Simmons Podcast.' Hosts: Justin Verrier, Chris Ryan, Paolo Uggetti Try Hopsy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. I'm Liz Kelly. We just launched a brand new golf podcast called Fairway Rowland, where Joe House is joined by a rotating cast of Ringer and golf world personalities every week. They'll break down the latest in golf headlines and news from social media, keep up with everything Tiger Woods, and delve into the world of golf gambling. The first episode was just released earlier this week with new episodes being published every Monday going forward. You can download and subscribe to Fairway Rowland on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up, everybody? Welcome to a very awkward episode of group chat. Because what happened was me and Justin and Palo recorded a special Anthony Davis podcast, a special Anthony Davis edition of group chat where we talked about all things AD for about 45, 50 minutes, talked about possible destinations, talked about the state of the Lakers, the state of the pelicans. Justin used to be a beatwriter down in New Orleans covering the pelicans, so he has some special insight into the situation there. It was a really awesome conversation. And then pretty much about an hour after we got finished.

Chris Staps, Porcingas, got traded along with half of the Knicks to Dallas for half of the Mavericks. For Dennis Smith Jr., for DeAndre Jordan, for Wesley Matthews, Courtney Lee and Tim Hardaway, Jr. are also going to Dallas. A lot to talk about there. Guess where you can hear that? That's on the Bill Simmons podcast coming up. I'm sure you're subscribed to that. It's a popular podcast.

So if you want to hear about Chris Staps, go to the Bill Simmons podcast. We'll have an emergency pod up shortly, probably after Group Chat is publishing. bide your time with some thoughtful Anthony Davis conversation, and we'll see you over on Bill's Pod. Basketball is very good. Jimmy Butler is actually a good teammate. Sabanis is the most important front court pacer. The Aaron Fox is better than Donovan Mitchell. Basketball is very good.

Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the group chat. Joining me, as always, Palliuggetti. What's up? And back in the first. director's chair, Haley Ashana's he's not with us, so we called in the expert, the rumor monger himself, Chris Ryan. After my intellectual micro fracture surgery and a long period of time on an abandoned island, I'm back.

That's great. Great to have you. Guys, this is our time. We're in the eye of the rumor storm. Feels like the big ball dropped earlier this week on Monday, Anthony Davis. Finally, told the New Orleans Pelicans that he's not going to sign a supermass extension. He wants a trade out from there, and things have kind of dribbled out since the then, but I don't know. It feels like we're waiting for the next kind of machination of

this whole thing and for everybody else to get involved as a result of that. So how are you guys feeling right now? Are you ready for what's to come? I don't think anything's coming. Wow. There you go. I don't think anything's coming. I don't think he gets traded before next Thursday. I do not think he gets traded to the Lakers for sure. Yeah. You would actually be delinquent in your duties if you traded him to the Lakers without waiting for the Celtics offer, if Demp's does that. I agree with that. I do think that there is sort of a time is right in a lot of ways because this has been so

prolonged, even though it has never been out in the public until this week. It was something we talked about, we wrote about. It was discussed. And I do feel like there's a part of it that they should be thinking. I don't know if they're thinking this is maybe we just need to get this over with. We're off the Band-Aid. yes, there's the Celtics deal on the horizon, but who says they're going to put Tatum on the table, for one. Who says one of Tatum or Brown or, you know, whatever is going to get injured, you know?

And I think there's a lot of variables that you could make an argument that the time to strike is. Now, there's no incentive. I think it's clear that there's no incentive for them to go right now, but I also think that they could use the demand to their advantage, if you will. Right. So let's set the table just a little bit, just to catch everybody up here. So, Zach Lowe and Adrian Wojianowski had a nice rapport on ESPN this morning. Pretty much just kind of details everything that's going on since Anthony Davis' trade request. I think the big takeaway there... Including some great Mickey Loomis, Danny Aang football anecdotes.

I know. Apparently, the two of them go back to their days in Eugene Oregon. Well, I mean, this is always the thing with Danny, is that, like, his big trades always seem to be, like, products of his past relationships, like the Garnett thing coming out of Mikhail and everything. Right. And it does feel like in one of the details. Dale's in the Low Report was just that the Celtics have been preparing for this moment for a while, and they've been doing all this research as a result. I think the big takeaway from the story and just from what's been going on in the past few days is like you mentioned, the Lakers. It seems like everything is designed for them to land AD, but nobody in the rest of the league, the 29 other teams

want him to land there, including the Pelicans, who, according to this report, still have not returned Rob Polinka's call, which seems to be an issue for. the Los Angeles Lakers. I get it for the Pelicans point of view. Like, why would you be in a rush, as Paul was alluding to? Like, it does feel like everything that's there right now is going to be there eventually. But I want to get into kind of the Pelicans part of this first. Then maybe we can circle back in the Lakers.

It seems like they're being overly petty pretty quickly. And I wonder if they came to this emotional rash, hard-ass decision. sooner than they needed to because they're taking them off all of their big board stuff. Yeah. And like we're at the point where there is no return here.

You can't go back from what they've started, I think. Yet he was on the bench last night, participated in some huddles. Yes. Right? Like is a part of the team. And now it's gone from the presumption being that he has played

his last game as a Pelican and would like basically sit out the rest of the season. So it was not to get any kind of of career-altering injury to he might play again before the All-Star break. It was something I saw today. Yes, that's in the ESPN report as well. And I wonder how much-

And we play as a Pelican at the All-Star game. And I think that's a big part of it. I do feel like, as he's said himself, he's like, legacy is important to him. He wants to be a part of the All-Star team. And I think it would be a bad look if he didn't play and played in the All-Star game healthy. But you know what would be a worst thing for it to happen is for him who has had recurring number of small injuries

get injured again. That would root everything. If I were the Pelicans, I don't see an incentive. You're going to train him eventually. I don't see an incentive to play him again. So when you take a wide angle

look at this, you know, what you see is Anthony Davis, the Pelicans and the Lakers and it's triangle. But then when you step closer and closer and closer, you just see all these other little characters

and they're all pulling the main players in different directions. So within the Pelicans organization, as you and I discussed in the rational conversation post that we did on the ringer this week, you've got Mickey Loomis, who's a football first executive, but has probably, I think, ultimate, like sporting decision-making power at the Pelicans.

He was the president of the Pelicans and the Saints. Got Gail Benson, who's the owner of the Pelicans and the Saints, and is one of the worst calls ever away from putting her team in the Super Bowl this year and runs the Saints the way that the Benson family runs the Saints or whatever. Right, which, and it's important to mention that she just got the team because her husband passed away last year. So she's very new to this whole experience. And this is her first big challenge. Yes.

Right. Then you've got Rich Paul. You've also got Magic and Rob. And you've also got LeBron. And so I wouldn't necessarily say that everybody is reading from the same hymn book, even of those three. And I would also say that of the Gentry Demps Davis, Davis. Lumis squad, I don't know that everybody

sees things exactly the same way. So you may see some punitive stuff where right, like, hey, take him out of the video, you know, like let's take him off billboards, let's stop selling season tickets off of him. But then he's still around. His teammates still talk about him

like he's their brother. Gentry is kind of obviously going through something. Can we talk about that for a second? Yeah. So Gentry made a very passionate defense of Gil Benson last night. And I'll say this, Alvin is often in a really poor position

by his front office because he's often the one having to account for all these things. He's the face of the franchise in a lot of ways because Dell and Mickey don't really do a lot of media

and so he's the one fielding these questions. I do feel bad for him at times because all he can really say is that's not really my job description. I have influence and I have say, but that's not it.

But having said that, I think he will often try to present a brave face for the franchise when he knows things aren't going well. And he even said last night that, like, you know, it's not a distraction. He's around.

He's still the same guy. But I thought Royce Young at ESPN did a really good job of being like, actually, it's kind of a big distraction. This is really uncomfortable. I mean, another great example is when the Pelicans were in LA. And, you know, all the reporters flock to Alvin Gentry's a pregame press conference. And off the bat, like, he's like, we're not going to trade him. Like, he was like, not that he had that power per se, but like he was very confident

and just in diverting the narrative to being like, guys, this is. is not even a discussion because it's not on the table. Right. Which is wrong because that's only thing we want to talk about going on. This whole thing, and I feel like a little bit of a broken record because I think it's pretty, it's not the most complicated like comparison to make, nor is it particularly unique. But I can't get over how much the last two or three years of watching NBA basketball

transactions reminds me of European soccer transactions in the sense that contracts are kind of malleable. You know what I mean? And that, you know, the length of your contract is really like, doesn't necessarily portend to how long you're going to be in a place. And that player power means you can essentially force your way, not only out of the team you're playing for, but more or less to the team you want to go to.

And this is going to be a huge, huge test of that new reality, whether or not anybody blinks here and they're like, well, look, like, you know, he's going to go there anyway, so we might as well get what we can from them while we can. And whether or not, how strong Rich and Anthony are about, look, if you trade for him, it's just a year rental. And I'm not kidding. This isn't a Paul George thing where he's going to go and sign for three years at the end of

your season. Like, with you, he's really going to L.A. in 2020. So just buyer beware. Right. I thought Brad Stevens had a really good quote about this where he was basically like, yeah, this drives a lot of interest. I don't know if it's true, but I'm glad people are involved in the NBA and like watching. Yeah, most of it is fake or something like that, he said.

Yeah. And as you're mentioning, there is kind of this show, this theater of it all. and I would say the Lakers more than any other franchise are an embodiment of that whole the theatrics, the palace intrigue, all that. I think they've been relevant over the past few years simply because of that and not because of what they're doing on the court.

They've been really bad. And I think poorly managed in ways that don't necessarily show because they're just stacking draft picks and people like, oh, well, we're rebuilding, but those draft picks haven't been really good. Can I throw a scenario out? Just like, here's a read on this situation.

You tell me whether or not you think this sounds plausible. So LeBron goes through what he has described, I think, as, or at least Rich has described as the worst injury of his career. He gets hurt was Christmas Day. Yes. And he's been out since then. And since then, especially after Lonzo got hurt, the Lakers have kind of been nose diving a little bit. It's quite obvious that the ideals version of this situation would have been, LeBron goes down for three or four weeks, and the kids step up, learn a lot about themselves, become that much better with this higher usage. LeBron comes back.

Everything's going well. all we've gotten in the last couple weeks is, is Brandon Ingram ever going to be anything more than like, like, new Rudy Gay and can Lanzo stand the court? Right. And is Kuzma anything more than like a high usage gunner? And like what Josh Hart is basically like a useful cog, but not like a huge piece, right?

So that they've leveled out there. They also have all this detritus hanging around like Beasley and like these guys. They're just kind of like fine. But like are you really, what are you doing here with Land? Hansen Beasley and these guys. I know why they have. LeBron's watching all of this.

He's got this massive injury. He's going to be 35 next year. I believe so. I think he just turned 35. And he just changed his mind. This idea about being patient and about like growing with these guys. He's changed his mind. I think it's weird that this also coincides with like the new round of like is

Lou Walton on the hot seat stories. Buecker today reporting that like Jason Kidd could be like a possible Lakers coach, which I think. I find equally hilarious. But is this, like, is LeBron basically LeBron and Rich like forcing the issues on this, on those Lakers team? Because I don't know necessarily that Polinka and Magic were like, let's do this now. It's very hard for me to say no to that because that's how it feels.

Like that was my initial read on the situation. Like they have completely flipped the narrative from before the season where it was like, oh, like, love the young guys. Like let's watch them develop. Like, LeBron saying like Ingram is next or whatever. all this, you know. And also, I'll come there. I don't need a second star to sign with you guys.

I'm signing and I'm signing for four years. Yeah. Patience. And now it's like, oh, actually, like time is important and you're 34 now. And the free agents and cost that's coming doesn't look like any of them maybe want to play here. So we have to go out and get somebody. Yeah.

I think in LeBron has done similar things in the past where not only did he insinuate in when he first went to Cleveland that like Andrew Wiggins wasn't really going to be a part of the future. But later in that season, he took some time off. He went to Miami. All of a sudden, Timofay Mosgov walks into the locker room again. He's like really energized. I think there's a part in Brian Winhorse and David Miniman's book kind of insinuating that he was like checked out. And it took a trade to really get him reengaged in the situation. I think it's highly possible that like something happened like that where he didn't like, he doesn't want to go through all the legwork to get to the point where they are competitive again. But I would, my view of the situation

and I don't know how true this is, but it does feel like he's always wanted this. He just is able to hide his cards a little bit better. I just find it very strange, like the public declaration of it. The public declaration of it and the implication that Davis, I mean, at least it was never explicit, but the implication that Davis may or may not have played his last game for the Pelicans

by saying, like, my hands hurt, you know what I mean, or whatever it was going to be. I think that might backfire. And, okay, so this is what I want to get. into here, I think for a while you could rationalize the Lakers passing up on some of the stars that came up for free agency or just via trade and say, well, they have options. They have some time. These assets are going to be there. They got LeBron and all of a sudden it's like, okay, now we can play a little hard ball. We have more leverage because guys will want to play with

LeBron. But all of a sudden, like, these guys are coming off the board. Paul George, Quay Leonard, doesn't seem like he's all that interested in going to the Lakers. Maybe he'd go to the Clippers. We know Durant's not going to go. He essentially just did like a TED talk about why he wouldn't. Right. Jimmy Butler didn't seem like he's going to go. He might not have that many more options. And then I think you could always sell LeBron or just Lakers fans or everybody in general

on the idea that, well, AD is the true prize. He's the one that out of all of these, he's the guy you want. And Rich Paul, who was obviously associated with LeBron, got in with him and it seemed like things are going that way. But we're now at the point where the Lakers should be in the... the big lead for this, there are signs based on the Wode report and the lower report that AD would only want to

go there, although he hasn't said that, and I want to circle back onto that. But I think they're under a lot of pressure. If they don't do this, what the hell are they going to do? Also, every time I watch the Lakers, that package looks less and less interesting. Oh, and that is what I'm hearing from like just

around the league, that the Lakers love their young guys. And they're like, well, you can pick one or two of them. Right. And the rest of the like, motherfuckers, you need to give us all of that? And we're not even sure we want that. It's remarkable that, like, Magic Johnson has evolved so much as an executive that he once had no problem sending away DeAngel Russell, who is now a fringe. An NBA.

Yeah, exactly. And now seems to be in love with this group of guys who all have their very clear and evident flaws, you know? Like, obviously with Kuzma Injury the other night, he wasn't playing in Lanzone. He wasn't playing either. But it was funny watching LeBron on the bench sort of like, watching. him as they went down by like 30 to the six or like 23 to the sixers and then just kind of he looked also checked out like all right like this is just running through the motions yeah he he got

excited at when they started making that comeback but i do wonder if he's just like well like it's it's it's time now it's it's time to go like you know yeah i think he i think he is aware of his own basketball mortality to some extent i don't think he's going to be tom brady i think that he's going to do this for like the rest of this contract and that he's going to make movies and television shows and maybe buy a team. So I don't necessarily think that he's like, eh, like, let's just shut it down. And basically what they've done is they have gambled the idea,

and this is talked about in the Woj and Zach piece, that essentially, like, what's in play now is a bunch of teams being like, screw you, we just robbed you another year of LeBron's late prime without AD. Because it's almost worth it for me to take him on. And then dangerously, the more I watch Kuzma Hart, you know, ball in and out, and then Brandon especially, because Brandon would be usually the thing that you'd be like, I got to think about this really long and hard because I could have an NBA All-Star under my control here for a couple more years.

It's like, I don't know, I don't know, man. I would rather have Pascal Seaccom than all of those guys right now. Yeah. And I wonder who is even the best asset among those Lakers players. We've been talking about this around the office. like I want to say Ingram just because of the pedigree. Well, also since Ball has not so subtly signaled to the media that he would want to be rerouted if he was included in that trade. Yes, including like teams that don't really make sense.

Like, I don't know why you would ever want to go to Chicago. It seems like honestly, I think Lonzo would be best playing under Alvin Gentry and running like the show with the Pelicans and playing off Drew. I think a lot of those guys on the Lakers would actually be better off playing in New Orleans. Right. And that team would be like reasonably fun if we could have a little bit of, like, like Drew Ewing there anything. But I think it was interesting. Kevin Pellon had something on ESPN the other day.

He ranked, he ranked Blanzo as their best asset. And number two, I believe was Kuzma. And three was Ingram. So we're at that point with Brandon Ingram, the number two overall pick right behind Ben Simmons and a guy who, I think even on this website we considered as like a guy who might ultimately be better than Ben Simmons.

Yeah. And we've talked about Ingram and so much, not even glowing terms now, but a lot of people projecting, like, this guy has the body and game to be the perfect modern NBA player in a lot of ways, because he is actually a really good playmaker.

He has the length to guard four different positions, if not the defensive ability always. And he can do some hardening things in terms of getting to the line a lot, getting to the rim, and shooting from outside. So, like, he has all the elements of a guy that you would want.

There's just something up with Duke guys. Yes, apparently. And he's not even shooting that well this year, which is, like, really disappointing. His shot selection is awful, too. My favorite thing about the whole Lakers' asset stuff is, like, now all of a sudden we're considering Yvaka Zubotch is like...

I know. As, like, a guy, because he had, like, two movies. That's Lakers deep state, though. Yeah. Like, that's just, like, weird late. Like, now we're, like, in the zone where we're, like, anything with purple and gold is, like, what about Shri?

Is he on top? You know, like... I do wonder how much we overvalue these guys. And it is interesting because we're in L.A. and I wonder how much like that's colors our perceptions of all these players to get the outside view of things. Like you talk to anybody outside of like

50 mile radius and like yeah, these guys suck. Who cares? Yeah. And so I was wondering about this last night. Is there any player more than Kyle Kuzma who's like, who is overrated based on just playing in a big market?

I want to say most of the NICs players just based on our NBA Slack that goes on. is that you almost can't give him that label because he was a deep draft find, if you will. So there is that sense of, oh, like, anything is better than nothing. And thus, when he does something good, it gets, like, augmented by just the fact that he wasn't, like, a top guy. That's the only thing, I think. But I do think that it seemed like for the first part of the season, he was probably the main beneficiary of playing with LeBron. And I wonder like, man, like, LeBron being out this long, like,

it's also, it's not just clear how he can make, you know, young players like that better or just really any players. But I almost wonder, like, if him holding out that long is a way, like, not a way, because I don't think he would want to show that they suck because, like, this is exactly what it's showing, but it's put them in this, like, desperate role where nobody, the Pelicans, like you said in the report, don't want to trade with them. Young guys look worse and worse every day.

injuries, reports leaking of like Alonza actually wants to go somewhere else because he's already anticipating the move. And it just seems like a mess. Like I think it goes back to your point about like the explicit nature of how they did this could backfire on them. Can I just ask you guys a question just for

as a hypothetical? And this is going to my question was going to be are we sure Anthony Davis is worth it? And I know look, I've like of all the basketball games that I've watched say in like the last since I've moved to L.A. in the last seven years.

Like the two most amazing people that I've seen live and everybody's going to laugh is John Wall and Anthony Davis. Just in terms of like pure like, wow, like John Wall got from one foul end to the other in the time it took me to like look at John Wall. Not like LeBron James. No, I mean like I just mean like I'm just saying like

and Davis, watching Davis against the Clippers like a couple months ago. I was just like, oh, it's like the best player in the NBA. Like I've never seen anybody do that before. But given what you. you have to give up to get him and given what's left once you get him in there

with LeBron, how good would that Lakers team be? LeBron and Anthony and what, Rondo Beasley and Stevenson? Is that what we're talking about? Right.

I mean, the short player, I think there would be at least the top four C in the West. But obviously the longer plan is to add more to that, which again,

don't know who's coming, right? But, you know, I don't know. I mean, maybe there's a kind of a larger conversation to be had about how much a player who is not a wing or is not a lead ball hand or how much effect he can have on the game.

I think there's no doubt that you would, the Pelicans are in great position because they have him for this another year and a half. So they can just listen to offers for a year if they want to. It might not be good for them. But my point is more, once you're on the team that's trading for him, how barren can you make the cupboard before you're like, now we have two guys? because if anything I'm learning from this year, it's just that, like, depth is king.

Yeah, right. Well, I do feel like it's a different conversation with a team like the Knicks or, like, even the Celtics, depending on, like, how they, how barren their roster is after they, like, if they were to trade for him, I think if it's a LeBron and AD and any three people, us three, I think they're the second best team in the West immediately.

Okay. I think that Anthony Davis is just so incredible. And I think LeBron, as we saw last year, where he carried a team of J.R. Smith and Jordan Clarkson, They were literally the Lakers castoffs, the Larry Nance of the world. And they went to the finals. I know, yeah. I'm not even unconvinced that Lakers, as is with LeBron,

can't go to the, like, at least the Western Conference Finals. Yeah. Like, even if they're like the sixth or seventh seed, like, I could see them beating the Thunder and then winning a tight second round and then going to the NBA, the conference finals. And I think the way to go about this is look at the rest of the West. Like, okay, let's say it's AD, LeBron, and those scrubs you mentioned. which other team scares you besides the Warriors?

Is it the Thunder? Like they're playing pretty well. You would just say the thunder because of like cohesive, like that team knows how to play with each other at this point. They're playing with that. Yeah, the Nuggets are not scaring anybody right now. Yeah, Portland is not going to beat that team, I don't think. Right.

And maybe they would like struggle in a playoff series, but like if LeBron and 80 are splitting 50 shots a game, like I think that's all you. So you started 100 points. He would immediately become the best. player LeBron is played with, right? Oh, that's a really good question.

But I guess, prime weight, like, maybe that first year of weight, but I would still, I would go AD. Well, I was just,

one of the reasons why I was saying this is I was even projecting forward. So they trade, like, let's say they make this trade. And then I think they would still have, do they still have a max? It would be LeBron,

AD, Luwold Dang is essentially what's on their books next year. Right. So that, I think they can get Kyrie. Yes. But I don't know if it's like exactly the Mac. I can't remember what it.

I think, I think they will have. have about like close to a max. I think what's interesting and we've talked about this before is that all of a sudden they're willing to take on salary back. Right. Which to me again underlines how desperate they might be to get AD that like they'd they take on Solomon Hill's contract just in order to have AD in house and like how there really isn't much further down the road besides AD. Yeah. I mean there is a sense of desperation I think like within this situation because they're realizing that the fairytale the fairytale of signing LeBron is quickly

giving away to this reality of, oh, we need to make moves and nobody wants to make some move with moves to us. Yeah, I think the next big step here, right before we get to the trade line, is how much does AD want to go to the Lakers above anywhere else? I have the Lakers are nowhere else. Right. But what happened? When does the league get involved? I don't know. They did find him 50,000, obviously, for Rich Paul coming out publicly for requesting a trade, which I didn't think was a thing.

I guess reports in the past have just been sourced so it hasn't been an issue. But the fact that Rich Paul was transparent and just picked up the phone, apparently that was enough to find someone. Just in general, this is now the second player. And I don't blame any of the journalists who are basically a part of the story.

God knows that I would love to be a part of it as well. It's the second player this season who has essentially orchestrated an exit, tried to orchestrate an exit from his team, through the media with his agent, Jimmy Butler being the first. It's another small market team losing an All-Star, if this is the case.

It's another guy trying, much like Kauai last year, although I don't think this was ever as explicit. We never really knew exactly where Kauai wanted to go. I think people assumed it was the Lakers, or at least Los Angeles. That's where Uncle Ben is one. Right. But, you know, because of Rich Paul's involvement in Anthony Davis's career,

we assume it's the Lakers that is his number one choice. and that anything else would just be a rental anyway. Like, the system's a little bit broken here. Oh, yeah. And I do wonder if this is going to be an inflection point for this debate and whether or not Silver is going to get involved in it at some point. Because John just wrote a piece. Gonzalez just wrote a piece today about the last time

a New Orleans All-Star came to Los Angeles. And that was another one of those, like, you know, David Stern getting involved in a trade that, you know, he felt like would have been competitively imbalanced. I suppose. I don't even know what the rationale was. Basketball reasons. Basketball reasons. I mean, he might not even have to find him because it seems like the rest of the league is doing the job for it.

Right. They're the ones like deterring the Lakers from getting these stars. I wonder about the competing forces even amongst like Anthony Davis's like camp. And how much is the Lakers thing driven by Rich Paul? How much of it? And I don't know. This is me just putting on my tinfoil hat here. Like how much does if he goes to a team that like a dark horse

team like the Raptors and they like do really well this season. All of a sudden does he just stay there? Like he's not out there saying I need to go play in L.A. because I have this gorgeous Westlake village mansion. Wynhorst was on Zach's pod and said there's, it's a list of three and a half teams basically, which I think you'd have to assume is Lakers, Celtics. I personally thought Warriors, you know, because I think that three years ago, I feel like there was like Anthony Davis is the next iteration of the late years ahead Warriors team.

That definitely happened. Yeah, and so I feel like we're way too quiet about them. I don't know what they have that they could trade to get Davis. Yeah, it'd be complicated just because of Clay would have to be essentially a sign-in trade. I don't think he would agree to go to New Orleans. And then you probably have to throw Draymond in there. So I don't know. I mean, the read I get on AD is just like I think he wants the spotlight.

I don't know how much he seeks it out. So for me, it's always been a little curious that the Lakers were his end-all-be-all. And I guess you don't hire Rich Paul unless you want that. He's brought that into his life. I also think there are competing factors just like, you know, how much does he want that versus like his dad who's like a huge presence in his life and has been very outspoken about like wanting big things for his son. To be clear, I actually think it's fine if he wants to leave New Orleans.

Oh, yeah. No, I would. You know what I mean? Like I don't. Lonzo doesn't even want to go to New Orleans. Yeah. It's also like it's not his fault that they haven't been able to build the right team around him. It's not his fault that this specific team is up against.

a generationally, if not historically great Warriors team. So even if you have some really heartwarming first round victory or you know, you get into the playoffs at all, you're just going to get annihilated if you see them. I don't think anybody's going to beat this Warriors team this year. So I can understand the existential crisis that some of these guys are going through. On the other hand, if you go back to like what Kyrie was saying to Bill earlier in the year where he's kind of like, it's not really about legacy anymore. It's more about like finding the best basketball environment and enjoying your life and playing with people you're interested in playing with.

And it's not really like we have to get six rings because I need to be in the conversation with Jordan and Kobe and Bill Russell. Well, if we're trusting Kyrie, it's all about yelling at your teammates and making them do which one. Actually, I want to talk about Kyrie and then I want to get into some of these other teams. We'll do that after you take a quick break. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Hopsy. Hopsy is the Nespresso or curig for beer. It brings beer on tap to the comfort of your own home with the sub, a countertop appliance

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That's try-H-H-O-P-S-Y-Y. com slash MBA promo code MBA to get a sub-home draft machine, two mini kegs of beer, two hobsy glasses, and membership in the monthly beer club all for $99. Or click the link in our show notes. Terms and conditions apply. We're back. We were just talking about Anthony Davis. I think we're probably going to be talking about him every single minute for the next

week straight. I want to get into a little bit about Kyrie because I think he's an interesting figure of this all. Increasingly, he's become like the guy who, may dictate where Anthony Davis goes and perhaps whether or not he will stay there. I didn't even realize until pretty recently how close they were, but it seems like they formed a nice

I honestly thought Russell Westbrook and AD had a closer relationship just because they shared an agent and I remember in New Orleans All-Star, they were pretty close and would talk about it often. But it does feel like if he goes to one of these teams, the Lakers, the Knicks, if he goes to the Celtics, it might ultimately signal that Kyrie stays there. Or goes there.

Goes there and or stays. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. I wonder, is that enough? If you're going to a team like the Knicks and they've completely torn things down, it's just AD and Trey Burke, let's say. Is Kyrie and AD enough to go forward with that you'd like kind of ship your- So they do not have.

So this actually goes back to my, are we sure he's worth it? Are you telling me that the Knicks would have given up Zion Williamson and Christop's Porzingis for Anthony Davis in this scenario? This is the big question. Like, let's just say they get the number one pick and the day they get it, they're like, hey, we're calling up New Orleans. I would do it because, you know, I was talking with Kevin earlier this week and we're talking a lot about the Lakers, right? We're talking a lot about the Celtics in the summer. And, you know, the Knicks were included in that report of, you know, one of the teams that are going to make offers and want to get AD.

And I wonder if, like, they almost have the Trump card to make this happen before the deadline of any team because they could sell you on that pick, right? And then they could sell you on Porzingis, who right now is a lot of, is a little bit of known what we saw him and a little bit of unknown because of the injury. And I wonder if that's the best time to sell on him. And I think Chris Hops is better than hypothetically, right, any other young player that could be out there except for maybe Tatum. Yeah. So that's an interesting question. Like, how good of an asset is Porzingis in this all? because if I'm the Pelicans and I've just gone through seven or however many years of AD missing a game every like two weeks,

am I really going to invest my future in a guy who, one, is it just about to sign a new contract? So you only get, let's say, a couple of years before he might want another trade out of there. And on top of that, he's getting hurt all the time. But would you rather have Porzinger's or Kyle Kruzma? I think that's the question. Well, I would, the conversation there starts with Ball, Ingram. Khruzma. Sure. I'd probably rather those guys, but the

Zion factor is super interesting. I mean, I think that would be insane to trade Zion and Christops for Anthony Davis. Not if it meant that AD was signing their long term and then you would get Kyrie. Well, that's the question. But what if you get Durant with, I mean, like, you could still get Durant

in the summer with Porzingis and Zion. That's... Wow, what a lineup that would be? What does Kade you want to play with a rookie, though? I think that's a big question. I think you have to think about timeline. My thing about KD this next time is that this is going to be his

chance for like narrative redemption. And I wonder if AD goes there. Let's say they clean the books. It's just AD. KD.'s like, all right. But does he not want to go there anymore because it kind of muddles the narrative? It's no longer KD

is going to lead the Knicks back to glory. It's more like AD is there and KD is there and you're in a similar situation before where you are building a super team, just one that's just not as good or deep. Sure.

I think it would still be Katie's team, though. And like, you could still... What did? AD would be there first. And we focus on these stupid little things when it comes to who is, like, the lead guy.

Now, Katie's probably a bigger personality. But honestly, it's like a 1A, 1B in terms of just like the most drab, like, boring interviews you can find in the internet. Right. Right. Yeah. It's an interesting question. I don't think I would do it if it was Zion in Porzingis.

I would do it if it's RJ&. if it's RJ Barrett. You would do it if it's basically anybody but Zion. I don't know. I mean, I love Zion as much as the next guy,

but like, we still have not seen him in the, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I think there's a little bit of, I think he's going to be really good, but is he going to be

Anthony Davis level good? I guess once you combine him with Porzingis, it's like, okay, well, that's two for one. I think, I mean,

all of the people like on our site and like all the draft Knicks out there, they all think he's like, he's the next AD. I guess the question is, do you want AD now or do you want the next AD who might not be ready for two, three years? I hate to be the one who's like going to pour cold water on the Zion train. But I mean, I'm just saying like there is a very, there's a chance that it doesn't turn out how we're projecting it.

The number one picks really never fail. Definitely. Great stuff. Well, let's talk about the team that recently failed at picking the number one pick. Let's talk about some dark horses here. I think Philly is an interesting one. Bill obviously talked about the possibility. of trading Ben Simmons for...

No. For ADD. Who would you trade... Who would you rather trade lots? Like, who would you rather trade lots? Like, Simmons 4, AD or Embed? Who, like, if you had to pick between the two, that's a tough question. I pick not AD.

Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I pick... You're like Jimmy. You're like Jimmy. You know, and I don't, I mean, I know that Anthony doesn't want to play center, you know,

and I don't, I mean, I know that Anthony doesn't want to play center and that he can play out in the perimeter in a way that Joel can't. The idea of Anthony Davis and Jimmy Butler being on the same team is hilarious. They deserve each other. I don't want to do that. I said this to Justin. I know this sounds weird. I would much rather figure out a trade for Drew Holiday.

Yeah. That's the hipster take right there. It's not a hipster take. It's actual basketball. It's actually like, what does this team mean? No, but it is kind of like, oh, everybody's talking about ADD, you know. I get it. No, I think that's a smart move to go.

for Drew instead of AD. I'm just saying, like, if we're going to talk about this hypothetical where the Sixers are of the StarCourse, I do wonder who is the guy, like you would Sixers Trans or the Sixers themselves would rather give up in that trade. I know that Drew said the other day

that, like, 90% of the reason he went and stayed in New Orleans was because of AD, which is not true. He actually went more for the money. Yeah, true. But talk about, like, a boost in approval rating. He is, like, at 100%. Because not only do I think, like, the rest of the NBA Twitter-Odi, like,

Do they love him because he's kind of that unsung guy that, like, you have to really know the game to appreciate? New Mike Conley. New Mike Conley? Yeah, exactly. But I do feel like now he's like the Ewing Theory guy. Also, his numbers are about to get stupid. Oh, my God.

He's going to put up, like, 40 a game. Jaliel Ocalfour and Kenrick Williams taking the other shots there. I mean, if we want to talk about him just a little bit, I wonder, like, how long is he going to stay there? Jaliel Ocifor. I think Jololokfor will stay wherever someone. will have him. But Drew, like, I don't know.

Is he the next dominant no default there? That's what I was asking you. I was asking you whether or not, like, is New Orleans, do they, can they see the chessboard enough to be like, we have two assets here? Yeah. And we can completely restock this team for a decade if we play this right. It doesn't feel like they do. Like, they're so hell-bent on not getting, not trading AD to the Lakers and kind of

being stubborn in this position they've said. Like, they're listening to offers. I just don't think the Lakers have the best package. I just think Toronto and Boston and New York maybe. I agree. And whoever, you wait till the draft, you wait till a lottery, at least. You find out who's going to get who. You decide who you like out of that draft class.

You just wait and you just make people bid, man. This is not Paul George for Sabonis and Oladipo. Right. You know what I mean? Don't let for an Apollo. That's going to pay. I don't know. I can accept that.

Like Paul George is an MVP caliber player. Yeah. For sure. Yes. He is, Anthony Davis, if, you know, we're all in agreement here, changes your team. Like, makes you a title contender if you put him with the right guys. So why would you trade him for Ball, Kuzma, and Ingram? Like, you've got to get your own pick, and you've got to get more than that.

Yeah. And if you trade Drew 2, you don't maybe have to rebuild at all. Yeah. That's an interesting question here. If not the Lakers, then who? Let's, like, discount all the favorites, so not the mix. For Davis. Brad Davis.

And not the Sixers because adjunct GM, Chris Ryan, has vetoed that trade. I'm not picking up Del Demp's phone call. I think it's really funny if that ends up happening. If it was like a Simmons for AD because it's like the ultimate clutch sports shit sandwich. Yeah. Because like if there's one like basketball player that Louisianaans hate more than anyone, it's Ben Simmons who completely like did not try for an entire season. And the way point. Sorry to betray the great tradition of Louisiana State basketball.

Jesus Christ. Well, I just know like when I was down there, everybody. but he was like, Madh Mood Abdul Raouf is just like one tier rolling down in Shaq's cheeks. Maybe they can re-sign Big Baby Davis and just, like, you know,

start that over again. But no, if not one of these teams, then who? Like, who's your favorite dark horse team to land in? I don't want to steal yours. You should do it. Is it Toronto? Yeah.

Yeah, no, I love the Toronto one. That's a good one. I think if you're all in on this season, which they are based on the Kauai Linter trade, why not keep going? I advocated for this, like, during the Jimmy Butler fiasco, And if anything, this makes way more sense.

Now, what's your package for them? That's the question because they don't have a Tatum, they don't have a poor Zingis. Seacom is really good, but ultimately he's like, you want him as like your fourth option on a title team. You don't want him to, you don't have to run your offense through him. I think it's interesting that he's the type of guy that the Pelicans could have used for the past seven years. It's a really tough beat too because, you know, when Kauai wanted out, whoever was going in his in return, at least was like, well, I get to play with Popovich. You know, DeRosen wasn't going to be like,

uh, shit. I mean, he was, but he knew he was going to be playing for probably the best NBA coach of all time next to Phil Jackson and like Red Hourback. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's not a bad beat in New Orleans. The problem with any of these packages coming back, like the Jonas Valenciunus Seacum package or whatever it is,

like those guys might be much less than what we think. of if they're not properly motivated to play well on a good team. You know what I mean? That's a good point. Yes, it's very much about the system, I feel like they're in Toronto. And I do,

another thing I wonder is, I agree with you that going all in, after going all in makes sense. But in that case, if they both leave after that, then it gets really tough for Toronto. You know what I'm saying? I think right now,

if Kauai leaves, they're going to be fine. I guess you've kind of prepared yourself for that already. And like, it's funny, I think Maasai, was talking about blowing up that situation

as soon as he got there from Denver and just never got the opportunity to because he kept making too many good moves. So maybe this is like his pet project that ultimately he'll get that chance to like start over and get Lowry out of there, get Valentuna's out of there, get all the guys that like aren't his guys out of there.

Yeah. Before we move on from the Raptors, they're playing the bucks tonight. I guess another team kind of on the fringes of the Anthony Davis discussion or at the very least like they're relevant in the trade deadline just because of how well they're doing and the Raptors are doing. I love these matchups. They're playing tonight on TNT at 5 p.m. Pacific time.

It's just like a really nice clash of just like two teams who know who they are and like what they're doing. You know, we've seen them go back and forth a lot. The MVP discussion, I think, is pretty thick amidst all of these just because of the way I think Janice and Kauai go at each other. Where are they, where are both teams, I think, for you guys in terms of like watchability? Oh, the Raptors and the Bucks? Yeah. Top five. Yeah.

I love that they've turned the narrative around from the, Oh, it's the conferences, the Sixers and the Celtics, and now it's like the bucks and rafters are on top of... Yeah, I mean, I find the upper half of the Eastern Conference like far more compelling than the upper half of the Western Conference at this point. Yeah, and that game's at 5pm Pacific. We don't do Eastern Time here. And that's on TNT.

And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com, Amazon, or your local cable or satellite provider. Do you have any, like, pet, dark horses that you're fond of? I think that the Dark Horse teams to look at are the teams who have nothing to lose and would be like, we'll take the chance on the rental. Yeah. So I don't necessarily think that they could put out together as an attractive package

as anybody else, but I would imagine that Miami would trade everything that wasn't nailed down for him. And then they would say, hey, we believe Pat Riley and Eric Spolstruck in a year and our medical staff and everything can convince Anthony Davis that this is the place to be. You know, now, New Orleans may not pick up the phone. What are some other teams? Portland, I think, is another team that might be like, whatever it takes and it will try to convince him. But, like, as Brian and Zach talked about on the pod,

that's a non-starter for AD. Like, he has, like, there are a couple of teams that he would consider. The big one that I guess is the kind of Dark Horse would be the Clippers. They have the young guy in SGA and, I mean, Tobias, I guess, if you're into that, you know, he's been here at this season. Yeah, you'd have to re-sign them. That's, like, trouble with some of these. even like the box is another team.

I think it would be interesting, but like all those guys need to be resigned. No, the clippers, I don't know. It would be what? It would be Shea. It would be Tobias, maybe Gallo, but he's going to be hurt. I mean, if he's not hurt now,

he's going to be hurt in New Orleans. I don't know who else they would want. I mean, Patrick Beverly. Yeah, who doesn't want a Patrick Beverly on your team. All right, I think we'll wrap it up there. All-Star Reserve picks, skip pick tonight. You can listen to the corner three on Fridays, as usual. I think they'll have some.

some really interesting thoughts there. I love the insights. Yeah, exactly. All the, all the nerd core you can hope for with your All-Star picks. I haven't been on in a while, so I'm kind of, I'm kind of curious whether or not, like, my takes are outside of the mainstream. I love it. And the lame stream media. Yeah. By being like, is Anthony Davis that good? You're really setting a new agenda. You're the WikiLeaks for NBA takes. I'm the clutch leaks. Oh, man. We'll be back next week. We'll be on right after the deadline. Yeah. So we'll have a lot to A lot of stuff happening on the deadline. I think there will be some Bill Simmons content coming for you and we'll also have a podcast as well, probably doing like winners and losers.

Yeah, so we will talk to you then for Chris, for Paulo, for me, for Bobby Wags on the one than twos. We will see you next week. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.