The Ringer NBA Show - At Full Strength, Are the Clippers the Title Favorites? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: March 6, 2020

After laying it on the Houston Rockets last night, the full-strength Clippers look about as good, if not better, than anyone in the NBA right now. Can they reach their final gear when the playoffs roll around (1:21)? Plus: We discuss Andrew Wiggins’s future with the Warriors and the race for the eighth seed in the West (10:49). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, this is Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Recently, on the Winging It podcast, Vince Carter and Annie Finberg sat down with NBA all-star Kyle Lowry and recording artist for Timmy. This week, 2017, first overall pick Markell Fultz joins the show to talk about living up to expectations and working his way back from injury in the NBA. Make sure to check out Winging It on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. In their NBA show, I'm Chris Vernon. He does every Friday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin Obama, aka Kevin. O. Climber. Kevin O Conflict. Kevin O. Camphilland. Kevin O. Cove. Kevin O'C.? The Bearded Bumble God himself. What's up, Verno?

Don't call me Andrew Luck, KOC. You told me before we went on the air today that somebody told you your beard looks like Andrew Lux. It's at an Andrew Lux stage, but it's going to be bigger than Andrew Lucks beard when it's all sudden done. Kevin, the Clippers just beat the Rockets last night. The Rockets just missed another three as we are recording. They were seven for 42 from three last night. 17 percent, their worst three point percentage in franchise history when attempting 40 or more threes. And they're worst in a game since 2017. Poor timing considering everybody that's an NBA fan was looking forward to this game last night to see what a possible second round showdown could look like. Wouldn't look good after something like last night, right?

I mean, like with Houston. That didn't look like much of a series. And, you know, the 7 for 42 part of that is the clippers playing really good defense, forcing some, you know, less than ideal late, late shot clock, threes from guys that you may not want it from as much or they're heavily contested. But for the most part, Houston missed a lot of threes. The real problem was Houston's defense. They were lazy in transition. So Clippers were getting easy, early offense or just fast break points.

And in the half court, they weren't playing their type, the level of gap defense that they need to in order to prevent penetration to the paint. Because when you don't have a room protector, your off ball help defenders need to be sound. They need to be active. They need to be aggressive. and they weren't last night and Clippers were getting easier buckets. Not to mention, of course, Kauai Leonard just being absolutely

spectacular in last night's game. Aside from like other guys performing well, Montres Harrell playing hard, Kauai was just being the MVP level player that he is. Do you think it was a big deal? Do you think last night's game was a big deal? No. No, but I do think overall,

I mean, if we're not last night's game specifically, but the Clippers in general, they are trending upwards. And we talked about this throughout the season. We said before the year, like, this team might underwhelm because Kauai's going to miss games. Paul George is missing the start of the season. And then there's that question midseason that did pop up from us,

from others, you know, is there something off with this team? And there was at one point. However, you know, now winning six games in a row, really healthy for the first time. We're seeing what this team can be on the defensive end of the floor with the way they harassed Houston last night, with the way they contained Oklahoma City on Tuesday night earlier this week. Granted, they're not a perfect defense, but when this team is locked in on that end of the

floor, they have the ability to be adaptable and play any type of style. You can play big with Zubots, or after adding Marcus Morris, you can go a bit smaller and have him at the five. I mean, they have so many different ways in which that they can play. And that's going to make them a devastating defense to go against in the postseason. And then if they do get things clicking with Lou Williams and Montres-Harl on the offensive end of the floor like it was last year, your bench is going to be more potent. And then you have Kauai Leonard and Paul George, two bona fide superstars. I mean, this team, I still would pick the Lakers to win the finals like I did before the season, but they're right there next to them.

And it's pretty close to a coin flip, in my opinion, between the Clippers and the Lakers. Listen to how crazy this is, because I went and looked it up this morning, because we know that they have played this extremely. amount of starting lineups, right? I went and looked up this. The amount of minutes, the most amount of minutes that any unit has played together as a five-man unit in the NBA is a Denver Nuggets unit. It's Paul Millsap, Will Barton, Gary Harris, Nicola Yokic, and Jamal Murray. They have logged 684 minutes together as a unit.

when you look at the clippers, the unit of, which does not even exist anymore, because Mo Harkless isn't there, Patrick Beverly, Paul George, Kauai Leonard, Mo Harkless, Ivaka Zubach, right? 215. They have one other lineup.

One. And listen to this one. Landry Shamit, Zubach, Patrick Patterson and Patrick Beverly. A hundred minutes. That's the second most for a five-man unit on the entire, the entire Clipper season.

And what would you say is they're closing? Probably Lou Will and Pat Bev with the two wings and Harold. I mean, it depends. I think it depends. Like they can play different lineups out there, depending on how they want to dictate what the other team does or how they want to react to what the other team does. Yeah, okay.

Well, and if they, right, so if we just say those two, if we say Lou Williams and Patrick Beverly and then the two wings, George and Leonard and Harold, that's played 53 minutes. Not a lot. By the way, it's got a net rating of 16, by the way. I mean, they just don't, like, when they have been fully stocked, their lineup data is outstanding. It's just they haven't played. They got one lineup that they would go to now.

which they wouldn't even go to that lineup ever. And it's played 100 minutes. Nothing else has logged 100 minutes together. And most of their lineups have logged less than 50. The fact that their record is what their record is, I think speaks to how incredible they are going to be. I think they are the favorite. If you told me George is healthy, Kauai,

their top seven, eight guys are healthy, I think they're going to win it. I do. And also, you know, with this team, we saw this last night. They were really shading James Hardin on his on the right side, which, you know, we've seen a handful of teams do in the past. We saw Milwaukee do it. We've seen teams doing the playoffs against Houston. We saw Utah take it to the extremes.

But they were shading Hardin to that side. And it wasn't just one guy doing it. It's not like Patrick Beverly had him the whole night. It was Marcus Morris at times. It was Paul George at times. It was Quay Leonard at his times. They had a handful of guys, a fact. effectively defending him last night with pretty much the same strategy.

And with the Clippers, you know, they check all the boxes in terms of having that defensive versatility that you really need in today's league to thrive at the highest levels. And that Marcus Morris edition, I think, has maybe gone a bit overlooked because you mentioned how, you know, your end game lineup might be with Montrez-Harrell at the 5. And that's true. But it also could be Marcus Morris in some cases. You could put Morris there. Or you could put Zubots there, who, by the way, was awesome last night.

Six for six from the floor, 12 rebounds, 17 points. It's not the first time he's had a really, really good two-way game like that, playing good room protection at seven feet, and also being a great screener and finisher at the rim. They can plug and play so many different guys at that five spot and give such a drastically different look depending on that lineup that they're a really hard team to prepare for because they can take on so many different looks on so many different nights.

Whereas, you know, Houston, we saw last night, you know, we've talked about this a lot over the years. They've always sort of played like one style. And now they play one style to an extreme. And last night's game, there were certain points where I was thinking to myself, boy, it would be really nice if they had like a big rim runner just to run some high pick and roll, you know, like they could when they had Clint Capella, you know, and they weren't able. And you were off when we were talking about this. When, you know, obviously they had moved to this five small guys lineup and it was very devastating.

One of the things I kept saying to Charks was this is brilliant to do this when they have done it in the middle of the season. Because these teams have a very finite amount of practice time during the year. And they are the only team you see like that. And I likened it to the NCAA tournament when you play the team. that presses all, you know, full court presses you or runs a one three one zone or Syracuse with their success that they've had, even with lesser teams, uh, playing a two, three zone. Like the team that you are not and the type of basketball that you're not used to playing and playing against is extremely difficult to prepare for and especially in a one-off

situation. But I do think that they're, where, where they will flounder is when, a team, all they have to do is worry about that team. And you are going to, and you got a bunch of really good coaches in the Western Conference. And when they say, okay, this is how we are going to defend them. This is what we are. This is how we're going to attack this. You do wonder, what's the move for them. It feels like they're just going to do what they're going to do. And it's either going to work or not. But like you were saying, it'd be nice to have somebody big. I mean, they scored, they outscored the clippers by 10 in the fourth quarter. I mean, they were down 25 points going into the fourth last night.

And it's like, okay, so what is, that's the question to me. And that will be Mike Dan Tony's job. But what is the adjustment? When somebody figures out like, all right, this is how we want to play against them, what's their curveball that they can throw? Because like you were saying, it's kind of like they're going to play. one way. It's not like

what are they going to do? Go put Isaac Harkinstein in the game or something. I mean like, like they've just decided this is what we're doing. I have the answer for better one. I have the answer.

They have Jeff Green. Did you die? Yeah, I'm going to let you talk first. I was going to let that breathe. I was going to let that breathe until you broke. For the people who have like on their podcast silence removed,

that's not going to hit the same. but if you listen at like just regular speed, that's going to hit as hard for you as it just did for me. I had to pick myself off with the ground. I thought you went into like cardiac arrest or something right there. All right. So obviously you're joking, but my question is real. The question is real.

Like what is they decided we're going to play without big guys. and so if the team is going to punish you for not having big guys and how many times did you see Zubotch doing stuff down the stretch and you saw guys driving to the basket and be able to, you know, when they were able to spread them out, there's nobody there. Well, that's what I mean. You know what I mean?

That's what I was saying earlier. I mean, like their gap defense needs to be, you know, pristine. And last sign it was, it looks like they played with energy or focus. And they need to be on. They need to be on in order to harass those ball handlers as they're starting to attack in essentially one-on-one situations or maybe you're attacking a close-out. Your help defense needs to be there and be there before the attacker is. And last night, they just weren't. I just think that they're against the best teams.

The best teams are going to be able to figure them out and decide this is how we want to play against this. And in one-off situations, it's still very difficult. but the Clippers knew exactly what they wanted to do against the Rockets last night and just, I mean, they drug them. I mean, we'll see. We'll see. I mean, I still think Houston, you know, point out their flaws out all you want. You know, there are flaws with this team, obviously.

But I do appreciate the fact, you know, Houston, Mori, Dantone, or sort of going all in with the philosophy that they think gives them the best opportunity to win in a series. You know, and it could work. You saw it last night, too, Kev. and you may deny this, but I think anybody that's been watching them is kind of feeling like, all right, this is, this is becoming Russell Westbrook as the alpha dog of this team. Like it is slowly becoming his deal. And especially when going gets tough.

Like he is, for better or for worse, and sometimes it's for worse and it very well may be for worse. When it comes playoff time, he is the. guy that keeps on swinging and just like he's the refuse to lose. I'm and and sometimes his decision making, you know, when that goes into this Uber competitor, you know, can can go the wrong way and he ends up taking 65 shots or whatever. Lost a lot of serious.

It does feel like it as, as time has gone on, he's becoming the guy, doesn't it? I don't know. I'm not, I'm not reading it to that. I mean, mid-season, he's getting more comfortable, and he's taking on a greater role because he's excelling. But in the postseason, that could be a good thing, because James Hardin might not be worn out from doing it over the whole damn season. Like, he has been.

And I think overall, Westbrook taking that alpha role, as you said, right now, that'd be great. That would be great if he can do that right now. But when it comes down to it, James Hardin is a better player. and if he's able to sustain more energy and carry that into the postseason into a round two match up and not be playing on tired legs, that's a good thing.

That's a good thing. But by the way, I mean, it's not like Hardin's taking only 14 shots. He's still carrying. No, no, no, no. But I'm just saying, I'm just saying he's wired different.

Like, guys are wired different. Westbrook is that guy. He is the dogmatic guy. Like, okay, this ain't happening to us guy. guy and he may just drive wildly into the basket or something but Hardin

Last night it felt like at times he was the only guy trying. That's right. And Hardin has been an innocent bystander to some disastrous playoff moments as has for us. Westbrook is not the guy though that is going to go down without

you know he's unloading the clip that's all I'm saying. So it's Harden he went to game seven against the Golden State Warriors. He did. Yeah he He did. He also had a game six at home against a team without Durant, and he got defecated on by Steph Curry. Yeah. Steph's one of the greatest players of all time, and thank goodness he's back. He is back. 23, 7 and 7 last night. I thought this was funny. I read this morning. He took six shots from 30 feet last night, which was tied for the most ever in a game in his career. So first game he's been back all year.

He took six shots. Got to catch up with Tray Young. Got to catch up with Dame. All these guys taking 30 footers now. I guess so. Oh, yeah. Well, hey, for all these schmows out there that are promoting Zion for rookie of the year, maybe Steph Curry can win MVP.

Does he come back in time? He's got time to make a little MVP run? Maybe we should throw his name in there. 23, 7 and 7, 6 of 16 from the first. from the field but it was significant to have him back. I talked about

and I know that ratings was a big story throughout this year. Curry's part of it because they put the Warriors on national TV 100 million times even though their team

was decimated and I've told you this before Kev you go to a his impact is greater than any other player in the NBA regarding like youth and youth basketball

and kids love him. My son woke up this morning and asked me about Curry last night. I mean, he is a fan favorite. He is certainly youth basketball favorite, and it's great to have him

back, even though I mean, I guess this is kind to see what he looks like with Wiggins, how that works, because certainly not all that much to play for at the end of this warrior season the last 20 games. Definitely not much to play for,

except for the fans, you know, and playing for next... Well, you've got a billion-dollar arena. Yes, you're playing for the fans. You're playing for your teammates, too. You know, I mean, I think it's important. You know, one of the things with Golden State this year is, you know, whether Steph got hurt or not,

there was going to be an opportunity for young guys to develop over the course of the season. And they've done that. I mean, we've seen, despite the fact that this team right now is 14 and 49, we have seen some progress over the course of the year. from some of these young guys. And some of these players are going to be role players next season when Steph, Clay, and Draymond, and Wiggins are the top four guys on this team, and they're going to be a finals contender.

They're going to be a finals contender again next season. So some of these players that are young right now and inexperienced are going to get opportunity over the next couple weeks until the end of the regular season to get time with Steph on the court that could be helpful heading into the summer with maybe some more pickup, some training, and then into training camp, and then into the season. So this is valuable for the big goal

that starts in late September whenever training camp starts for Golden State. Let me tell you about, you're going to like this. So they've got a bunch of young guys on that team. As we know, they were decimated by injury this year, and you talked about those young players developed. There was a young player on that team

that the people with the warriors raved to me about when I talked to them about sources say you know who it was Dragon Bender it was Chris it was

Marky's Chris no yes one X bright future son they they did all of that they did that look at that situation that that kid was in I had my own perception of what the kid was, but let me tell you, this kid plays hard,

and he is incredibly smart. He is a smart kid, and he has been in, you remember how I did that analogy earlier in the week, and I've been talking about it for weeks about putting a kid in a bad school versus a good school. It's a kid that was put in a bad school to start off, and now he's transferred, and he's at the good school. And the people there, they see a lot of, you know, they had to release him at one point, you remember, but then they brought him back.

But the people I talked to with the Warriors, they were very high on him. Like of all their guys, because they don't really know, I think, with the Warriors, how many of these guys from that roster are going to be on that roster next year when they figure everything out? Obviously, there's going to be turnover

with what they've got. But he was one of the ones that I sensed they were happiest with and I got just a ton of positive feedback on Chris. And they said that you can look up his defensive numbers. He has been a great rim protector and he's a really smart kid off the court and a really smart player. And I was like, how about that of all things? With Marquis Chris, in that 2016 draft, he was really a home run swing prospect. You know, like when Phoenix traded for him from the Sacramento pick,

they knew what they were getting into. They knew that this guy could suck early on. And boy, did he suck. But, you know, now he's still only 22 years old. He turns 23 this summer. He's still young. And it's only his fourth season in the NBA. And look, he looks better.

He looks better now with Golden State than he ever has throughout his career. And now he's about to be playing with Steph Curry. And retaining him next season, he would be playing with Drenner. Raymond Green and Clay Thompson. I mean, situation, as we talked about on Tuesday, and is always true, plays such a significant role in success, no matter what you do in your life. And with basketball, we can easily look at it and see so many examples over the years.

Maybe Marquise Chris will be one of those examples, because he does bring the type of traits that are valuable in that offense and with his potential switchability in the defensive end of the floor, too. wouldn't that just be wild too? Because look, I'm seeing it in Memphis with Josh Jackson, who they used the top five pick on. Is Tony Allen mentoring him at all? Yes.

Like, are they talking? Yes. No, he has been. He's playing with some grit, you know, Josh Jackson is. No, he has been mentoring him while he was playing for the Memphis hustle for going to sakes. He was playing in the G-League all season for like 35 games. Josh Jackson was.

And because of injuries and the trade deadline, with Jay Crowder, Solomon Hill being moved out. He's come in and has gotten real wing minutes and has been absolutely dynamite. Model citizen, model kid, good player. Model kid. That's the big one. Model kid. Okay.

You know, playing within his role, the whole thing. And it's just crazy because I told you the Warriors came to town and I'm talking to people and they're raving to be about Marquis, Chris. And then I see it, you know, now with this Josh Jackson. and I'm like, man, me and Kev talks so much about where you get drafted, you know what I mean, what you walk into? And is it chaos? Do you have 50 coaches in a different front office? And, you know, what's the owner like?

And what's the veteran leadership in that locker room like? Ah, yes. It applies to everybody except for, you tell me, except for Andrew Wiggins, right? What do you mean? This was my Andrew Wiggins argument. What are you talking about? Andrew Wiggins. You think he's been around bad guy?

He played for Tom Tibodeau? Yeah, but I'm just saying, but I'm saying with talent that he's playing with now, it's a brand new situation, a brand new system. Everything you just said also applies to Andrew Wiggins. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, hold on now. I saw Andrew Wiggins. You got any kidding me. Andrew Wiggins was on a team that had home court advantage before Jimmy Butler got hurt.

Like, I saw him on a good team. I saw him on a good team. I never saw Josh Jackson on a good team. I never saw Marquis Chris on a good team. It's not just about good team versus bad team. It's not just about good team versus bad team. It's not like he hasn't been in a winning situation though, Kev. The guy won.

They played in the playoffs. I saw him. Sometimes it's not just about good team versus bad team. Sometimes it's about like motion offense versus, you know, pound the ball offense. Oh, good grief. And Andrew, and I'm telling you, I guarantee you, I guarantee you, I guarantee that next season, Andrew Wiggins is going to have a career best season.

And one of the reasons why is... One of the reasons why is because he's going to do more with less. More cutting, more spot-up shooting, more timely passing, more energy on defense. He's going to be focusing on the things that he's good at and have to do less of what he's bad at because there are things that he's bad at. How about this then? I bet you $100 right now. You just get...

You just read it. Hold on. Everybody can mark this down. March 6th, 2020, right? Okay, that's the date. On March 6th, 2021, Andrew Wiggins will not be on the Warriors. I'll bet you $100.

Oh, my God. I bet you'll take that bet. Please send me the money now because you're going to be dead ass wrong. No, I'm not. I'm marking it down right now. March 6th, One year from today.

I'm setting a notification in my phone about this, too. I'm doing it right now. Send every notification you want. Vernal pays me $100 today. He won't be on the Warriors in a year. Career season, my ass. I'm taking note of the Friday, March 6th. They should have held on to DeAngelo Russell.

Remember when you were telling me about that? You're telling me about how they needed, you know, DeAngelo Rosso. No, I said it could work off. And I told you the whole damn season. He was going to the wolves. I said, I said it was. It could work offensively with DeAngelo,

which it could have. Defensively, no, it couldn't have. Well, that trade was stupid, and they're going to realize that probably way before a year. Probably. There is no way. Good grief. All right, that's an easy hundred bucks.

Thank you, Chris. I can't wait until you pay me next week. You're going to pay me in Venmo, check, cash. How are you going to pay me? Andrew Wiggins ain't going to be on the, he's not going to be on the Warriors, Kevin. I'm sorry. Norman Powell, good grief, this game last night.

37 points for the Raptors. That's in that Curry return game. And the Raptors have kept on chugging along. And you see this with the extremely good teams when guys that are, for the most part, role players step up and they can give you 37 in the game. Now, obviously, that's extreme. but Norman Powell, so much attention has gone to see Acom

and kind of what he's become. And you've seen so many guys on the Raptor step up from Lowry to Van Vleet when he's been uninjured to O.G. and Inobie. And now this Powell kid is having a sneaky great season. And it was kind of a capper last night for him to be able to do it in a big national television game.

game. But Nick Nurse says, all you ever want, all these players want is for coaches to maximize you. And in 29 minutes a game, Norman Powell is a 16 point per game scorer who's gotten four rebounds to assist a game to go along with it, all the while shooting 50% from the field and 40% from three. Norman Powell and hell, he's shooting 84% from the free throw line. I mean, if he could get to the free throw line enough, he probably doesn't have enough time to raise it up. But I mean, he could be 50, 40, 90 territory.

What do we make of this? Well, early in the season, maybe early December, a few sources told me that the Raptors were a under the radar team to watch for Andre Aguadawa. And that quickly went away largely because of Norman, Powell continuing to play at this high level after a pretty good early start. Because Powell, the last two, three seasons, after impressive, he was very impressive as a rookie way back in 2015-16.

The last two or three years have not been quite as good for him. But sustaining that success and being better than he's ever been before, there's no reason for Toronto to make a move like that for an old geyser in Iguala, right? So now Norman Powell goes from a guy where you're looking at Toronto and you're thinking about what they might do. At one point, Powell looked like maybe he was a bit overpaid, making around $10,11 million per season.

But now he's looking underpaid with the way he's performing, because it's not just the offense either. I mean, he drove their transition offense with energy off the defense, and he's been an effective defender as well. At 6-3, plays strong, plays burger than he looks. This is a really good two-way player, type of championship caliber player that almost every, type of a team like this has.

And Toronto may not win the title this year, but he's one of the reasons why they're a heck of a lot better than a lot of people thought, because after losing Kauai, you needed to see Pascal Seacum make a leap, which he did. But you needed more than that for this team to be as good as they've been. You needed guys like Powell to get better. You needed a guy like Van Fleet to get better or O.G.

In In In Inobie to get better. And they absolutely have gotten that from Norman Powell on both ends of the floor. It's been really, really fun to watch. 46th pick in the draft, Norman Powell, in 2015. And there's been some guys, I mean, there's not a lot of guys that have careers out of that second round, but there are some really good ones. Jetty Osmond, Montrez-Harrell, Rishon Holmes, Josh Richardson, Pat Conadon, Norman Powell, it's pretty good.

I mean, but by and large, the rest of the, I mean, to see somebody, that's drafted that low, you know, you get a guy averaging 16 points a game that was taking 46 in the draft. That is incredibly rare. I mean, it's incredible. I don't even remember. I honestly do not remember Norman Powell in college. He's pretty good at UCLA. Yeah, I wonder what team, what team was he on?

Was he, was he on the Levine team? He would, no, that would have been, no, that would have been too long. He was on the Kevonne Looney was on that team. Huh. Yeah, I don't, I don't remember him. at at UCLA and he was a four-year player says i mean at that point 16 16 he's 11 point per game his junior year 16 his senior year so it wasn't like yeah i had him ranked as a second rounder and one of the big reasons why because his jumper needed a lot of work um he needed to revise

his form and sometimes with those guys you never know you just never know like if they're ever going to get put in the right situation with a shooting coach or they're able or or or or if they're even willing to make a change to what they do. And he is somebody who clearly was willing to change because he's turned into a very reliable shooter. Yeah, Bryce Alford, Kevin Looney, Tony Parker. What a blast from the past. Remember big Tony Parker?

Yeah, Steve Alford. They're 22 and 14 his senior year. I just went to look it back up. They had three guys that made it to the NBA. Powell, Looney, and Thomas Welsh. You know, one thing I want to point out about this Raptor's team is three of the guys off their bench, you know, Paul, second rounder, Van Vleet undrafted, Terrence Davis, undrafted. All three of those guys were really, really good college defenders.

And all three always played with high effort, high intensity. And there maybe have been like a little bit of flaws in their games. Like you questioned Van Vleet's size. You question how much of a creator he could be because of his lack of like high-end athleticism. With Powell, you questioned his jumper. You even questioned his ball handling. With Terrence Davis, you questioned how real his offense was. But all three of those guys had a proven track record of playing hard, consistently playing on defense, and playing winning basketball at the college level.

And I look at Toronto and I think about what Masayu Jerry and Bobby Webster have done there. And when it comes to evaluating the draft now, you know, it should always be about looking for guys with those qualities in the, late first, early second round, because it seems like oftentimes, they just go on drafted, but they should be those late first, early second round picks. There's value there if a team's able to spotlight

those guys instead of just letting them go undrafted. And Toronto has seemingly plucked them out almost every year. It's remarkable. You know, a wise man once said, get the kids with that kind of DNA because you can fix and improve the shot greatly.

Hmm. I wonder where I've heard. that before when you consistently deny the fact that shooting is the easiest thing to improve it's not it's i mean you just you just literally gave an entire no just just norman paul i mean terence davis terence davis wasn't a great shooter no he wasn't a great shooter but he's always been a shot maker and that's that's what he still is you know but it does take that development offensively and teams have to be very good at developing players in order to pull it off because i talked to you about this there's so many of these guys that I really liked that are the dogs, the bulldogs, the guys that defend, the guys that are

diving on the floor, the guys that, you know, will do anything it takes to win. And now, like, people won't put you on the floor unless you can knock down a three. And so that's the trick. Can you, can you get these guys that, I talked about this kid I saw when I was on with Charks. So everybody talks about the maxi kid on Kentucky. But there's another one that when I was watching their game, Hagen's, who just, I mean, he is up in your grill and he is throwing the ball off of you to change the possession. He's diving on the ground to try to, you know, get a jump ball, whatever. But he's not.

He's not a shooter, you know? And it's like, all right, I've got so much I love about that kid. But nowadays you're watching the NBA. I mean, I guess if you can routinely drive to the basket and get to the cup, then they'll give you a chance. But you've got to be able to shoot. They got to be able to throw it out to you, swing it around, and you knock down an open shot.

And it's interesting with Higgins. Like you mentioned how, like he's a good example of a player, you know, that we're talking about where if you want to find a player who could theoretically improve their shot, you need to find somebody who displays good touch from the free throw line. Hagen's is 79% over his two seasons in Kentucky. And good touch on floaters and layups, whether it's with their dominant hand or their offhand.

And those are the types of things that you're looking for when you want to project somebody who can improve as a three-point shooter. Hagen's being only a 26% three-point shooter over his two years. So there's a chance. There's a chance he can end up being a player. But yeah, like that shot just, it has to get better. It's her requirement, especially for a small guard like him. That's for sure.

Jamal Murray saved the day last night for the Nuggets in what was a game that would have been very puzzling if they lost it to the Hornets. It just would have been an odd score. But Jamal Murray back in the lineup and they are the team that everybody kind of, do you think that the Denver Nuggets are being disrespected? The fact that they are, as of right now, they are still the three seed and they are one game. back from the Clippers, two and a half up on the Rockets. It seems hard to imagine that they wouldn't be a home court advantage team when all a sudden done. And yet, I think when people are listing off who they think can be in the Western

Conference finals, rarely, if ever, does someone mention the Denver Nuggets? I don't think they're being disrespected. I mean, I really like Denver. I wrote the big feature about Yokic and their team last year. They're a really, really good team. But it is fair to question certain aspects of that roster. Jamal Murray's, despite hitting the go-ahead shot last night, he's a very good player, not a great player.

Gary Harris is not the guy that he once was. Michael Porter, the guy who everybody rightfully was talking about as that X-factor on this team was a DNP coach's decision last night, as he has been many times recently. And I questioned personally if coached, Michael Malone on that is making a short-sighted decision here rather than investing in Michael Porter, Jr. And trying to really make him into somebody that could make a difference in a playoff series, if there's some missed opportunity here just by benching him, because maybe his defense isn't what you want right now to win games.

But I think they should be investing more in Porter Jr. for the potential playoff series when maybe you need a guy who at 610 can create off the dribble and hit some tough shots for you. I think it's a mistake now not giving him that playing time. Let me ask you another thing about the standings. Lord knows the basketball media, especially ESPN, desperately wants the New Orleans pelicans to get the eight seed so that they could get Zion versus LeBron. I get it. And many of the projections, including 538 projections, have been in love with the pelicans and have said the pelicans are going to be there all year long, even recently.

have given them a very good chance. But they've lost three games in a row now. They are eight and nine since Zion Williamson came to the team. And do you think there is a little bit of the, and their schedule is very easy down the stretch. But do you think there is a little bit of this, they've added this guy who is probably their best player? But it's hard to integrate your best player into the men.

in the last, you know, 30-something games of the season, especially when Brandon Ingram has been your guy, your go-to guy and your guy that made the All-Star team. What do you make of the Pelicans being eight and nine since Zion has come in? And do you think they still, even though they are now five games back, have a chance at being the AT? Yeah, they still have a chance. You know, I mean, they lost three in a row.

One of them was to the Lakers. one was a high scoring affair. They lost only by five to Minnesota, and then they lost to Dallas and overtime on Wednesday night. Yes, their odds might be difficult. There's a lot of competition to get that eight seed, but their end of season schedule is not extremely difficult. There's a chance for them to make a late season push

starting in late March. They face a lot of non-playoff teams or teams that are just on the fringe. They have to beat a San Antonio. They have to beat a Memphis and a Sacramento. They have to beat these other teams contending for the playoffs in the West. But they also have a handful of games against like the Knicks and the Hawks and the Wizards. So this team, just because they've lost a bit recently, it's been to some, you know, a good offense in Minnesota,

to best team in the West and the Lakers and an awesome, you know, playoff team in the West and the Mavericks. I'm not overreacting to that, no. One thing is true that none of the projections. um assuming that these that the that the math is right nobody has the winner of the eight seed having most have them have it under uh 40 wins like very high 30s like maybe 38 39 nobody has it over 40 because i have kept saying as as for the benefit of the grizzlies they are 31 and 31 they got 20 games left this is easy math if they win 10 41 I think you get the 8 seed.

Do you think that the 8 seed, do you think you'd be guaranteed the 8 seed if you win 41 games? What number do you think it's going to take to get that? I would agree with that. I think that's fair. To me, that would insure it. Yeah, I think that's fair.

Because it's very possible. It might be 39, maybe 40, maybe. I think that's fair. Yeah. Yeah? I think 41, 42. The Blazers are the closest, The Kings, boy, they should have won that game last night

against the Sixers when they had their opportunity because the Kings had been the one that had been tracking people down. And what a weird season for them, huh? Weird. Because Sacramento, you know, they started off. We talked about that trip at the beginning of the year, and it looked like, my God, this Luke Walton honeymoon lasted about two days. They lost, you know, they expected to have Marvin Bagley

in their lineup this year, didn't have Marvin Bagley. How's that going for you? Well, hey, it's going to turn out okay. This one I can tell you know what? It happened to me yesterday too. You stick with me over the long haul. Hey, Marvin Bagley's day will come. By the way, when he has played, he's been fantastic.

He's just lost two seasons to injury. He's been okay. But if you stick with me, look, there's going to come a day where people look back and they're going to say, you know what, Verno was right about Colin Sexton. And in fact, if they've watched any, if they've watched any, anytime in the last two weeks they've said that. Oh, he's been good. He was right about college.

We were just talking about guys that play hard. Granted, he was a lottery pickets a little different, but he is one of those guys who plays hard and works hard. All the time. If you give me that, if you give me a guy that will die on the court in order to try to win and you give me a guy that will work like crazy to improve. Because look, you know who I got? You know who else I got?

This Bagley thing, getting beat up over Bagley right now? You know what it feels like to me? It feels like when I got beat up. on De Aaron Fox. How's that looking, too? De Aaron Fox is friggin' awesome. I just saw him in person last week. If he wasn't stuck on that,

for that rat franchise, he would be getting so much love. I love when he'd be saying rat. He would be getting so much love. I can use a super cut of you just saying rat. Because he is, he is awesome, Kevin. Absolutely awesome. And it's a shame because, you know,

kids never on TV. and, you know, team loses. And probably won't make the playoffs again this year. But you just got to give this stuff time. Let it play out, Kev. Oh, I know. I look up in Norman Powell's awesome. I'm with you.

I'm the one saying Andrew Wiggins is going to be good with the Warriors. Oh, God. You got to let that go. I'm not letting that go. You got to let that go. Andrew Wiggins is in the Jeff Green family tree. It's him and Rudy Gay and Jeff Green and Andrew Wiggins. they all branch off

My, hey, I'm By the way, hey, listen, like, what you just said, I don't disagree with you. But that doesn't mean Rudy Gay, like, hasn't had a highly successful, like, 15 plus year career. Rudy Gaye has never won shit. He's played 15 years in the NBA, Chris. He's never won anything.

But what winning team do you remember Rudy Gay being on? What winning team do you ever remember Rudy Gay being on? He was drafted in 06 and he's still in the NBA. Last year, Spurs team, what winning team? Every team from Sacramento to the Grizzlies to Toronto, every team that moved on from Rudy Gay got better. Every one of them. Same way with Jeff Green.

All these guys are the same way with Wiggins. Hell, the wolves are better without him. They just went down and beat the pelicans without him. These guys, why are their teams better when they're not there anymore? Don't give me some cause and effect here when Kat's also out too right now. I asked you what winning Rudy Gay has ever done. So you tell me how good he is and you'll do the same thing with Wiggins. Andrew Wiggins ain't going to be a warrior a year from today.

We got a hundred bucks on it. And this will be my peace de resistance. You will come and you will, you will say, Chris, for all these years, I deny your incredible brain. And now I accept it. I accept it. You told me and I've done. done with Andrew Wiggins.

Oh, boy. Rudy Gade was on the 11-12 Memphis Grizzlies roster that lost in the first round of the playoffs. What happened? 41 and 25 in the regular season, pretty good. Yeah, what happened? You want me to remind you? Please, yes. I'd like to hear you recite the Grizzlies failures.

I would like you to go back and watch game one of that series where they're up 26 in the fourth quarter. And Rudy Gays guarding Nick Young, who hit, they came back 27 points in the friggin' fourth quarter. I watch this guy loaf down the down the court. Not tracking down any shooters. I'll never forgive him for that. Ever. Ever. And by the way, when they won their first series guess what happened?

Sound like a Yorkie parking here. He was hurt and they brought in Shane Batier. And then when they went to the Western finals, they traded him and put in Tashon Prince. Come to me with the, I know the history of this. I know that. I'm not, I'm not telling you he's played for winning teams. I'm not telling you that. But again, like this touches on exactly what we were talking about before.

Situation, I mean, he didn't choose to get traded on draft after the drafts in Memphis. He didn't, he didn't choose, you know, telling you these teams aren't as good to get to get traded to Sacramento. He chose to resign in those places. Yes. Bro, that was a whole, that's my point of this. These are players that you are worse with. You're better off moving, having somebody else. Replacement level. Yeah. That's what I've told

you. Last year, Rudy gave was damn. Last year, Rudy was damn good with San Antonio last year. There is a, there is a term in the scouting world and in the college, and in the recruiting world. The kid is good enough to get you fired. That's

what those players are. They're good enough to get you fired. Because they're so good and tantalizing that you play them, and yet you are not better with them. In the end, they will be a negative for you. And that will be true of Andrew Wiggins, and those leap year guys,

or what do they call themselves, leap years ahead or whatever in the Warriors? Light years ahead. Light years. Yeah, leap years. They'll get, they'll be light years ahead, and they will see that this is the truth also. If you say so. I mean, look, I think Wiggins of those three.

Wiggins' peak can be highest of those three players. Well, Jeff Green, I'm all the way there with you. I just disagree with Rudy Gay. They're the same, you know, tree of player, as you're saying, like Rudy Gay has always had his flaws as a player. Like, that's factual, but I don't, I just don't subscribe to your point saying, like, what winning team did he play on? He did not choose to go to Memphis.

He did not choose to go to Sacramento. They choose to resign there? Yes. But we don't know what other options are always available in those situations. He did choose to go to San Antonio. Toronto got better when they moved on from him. The Grizzlies got better when they moved down from. Toronto got better when they moved down from Sacramento got better.

Every team that moves off of him and play somebody different gets better. You figure that out. You think that's coincidence. Okay. Of course, he hasn't been on a bunch of good teams. I'm not saying. But he's part of the reason they weren't good is what I'm saying. I'm not saying.

Rudy Gay's, you're acting like Rudy Gay's the whole reason Memphis Green Grind era started. You're acting like the whole reason Toronto became good was because Rudy Gay's gone. The whole reason, you know, Sacramento. What is Sacramento? They're not better with Rudy Gay.

They're not better. I didn't say the whole reason. Yeah. I didn't say the whole reason. I don't even think it's even a big reason. He's like, he's a very replaceable player. He's a fine player who's had a successful 15 year career.

Good for him. I hope you tonight kiss your Rudy Gay and Andrew Wiggins poster that you got hanging on your wall. Because they are cut from the same cloth. All right. Last thing. Chris Paul has been amazing this year. This Oklahoma City team, as I said, a week ago, I think is a very dangerous team come to playoffs. What one thing people have to notice, once they got, you know, the first, you know, the growing pains out of their system at the beginning of the season, their record has been absolutely fantastic post Thanksgiving.

In fact, up till last week, they had the second best record in the Wester, or in the NBA behind the bucks post Thanksgiving. Because there were people that were hit me up when you were off, I was telling Charks, once you get past the L.A. teams, the team I wouldn't want to play the most is Oklahoma City. and I had a bunch of people tweeting me, oh, did you forget about the rockets? Did you forget about the nuggets? Did you forget? I didn't forget about anybody. And the truth is, outside of the bucks,

Oklahoma City's been the best team in the NBA after Thanksgiving. So it's not my eyes deceiving me when I'm watching them. Their record's been great. But they've got 100 million draft picks over the next couple of years. Gallinari's a free agent. They probably move off of Paul. Like, everything's, they do is always with the long view in mind. But somehow it has surfaced, especially with Leon

Rose now in charge at New York, that if the Knicks are going to try to go get somebody, that that would be an available option and that we might be able to see Chris Paul and Madison Square Garden as soon as next year. What do you think? I'd love it for the Knicks. I would love it. And, you know, look, Chris Paul will be 35 next season. And he's getting paid a heck of a lot of money. God, he would replace the great French hope, Kevin O'Connor's own Frankie Nillikina. That's another reason why I might love it, Chris, because Oklahoma City could do something with Frank Nilekeena. They could do something with him.

Oklahoma City is going to fix Frank Nilequina. But, you know, back to the point about Chris Paul, though, with the Knicks. They've seen nine foot rims there? I've seen some reaction that, you know, why would the Knicks do this? There would be the most next things possible to trade for 35-year-old player. And like, yeah, it would be the most next thing possible to do. However, having Chris Paul, at least you would have a guy in your team that can maybe be a lure and make you look like you have some competence on the court.

Getting Chris Paul, he's somebody who could help R.J. Barrett and his development, who could help Mitchell Robinson. They would be a dynamic pick and roll duo. Chris Paul and Mitchell Robinson would be. And look, with Paul, if you head into the 2021, one summer with Paul maybe being an allure to another star free agent out there in that loaded class, I think it's worth it. And then, by the way, Paul would only have one more year after that season.

He expires in 2022. So, you know, if you're the Knicks, I think it's the type of move that would make sense to make as long as you're not giving up too much draft equity, which I don't think you would have to do, even though he's an all-star. It's a good move for the Knicks if it happens, but we're a long ways away from that happening. I agree with you completely. I'm a little surprised.

So let's end on that. Okay, cool. Kevin, have a great weekend. Oh, and also just wanted to say thank you, everybody, for reaching out after a Tuesday show. It meant a lot to be able to talk openly about that on the podcast. So just thank you for reaching out and for all your kind words. Me and Chris really appreciate that.

Thanks to Bobby Wagner for producing another episode. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps, and we will talk to you next Tuesday.