The Ringer NBA Show - Behind the Scenes of the Trade Deadline With Shams Charania | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 14, 2022

Logan and Raja first get into Raja’s thoughts on the James Harden for Ben Simmons trade (0:30) before NBA news-breaker Shams Charania joins to explain all the behind-the-scenes actions surrounding the moves and non-moves at the trade deadline (15:00). Finally, Jomi and Sasha jump on to discuss the new trailer for ‘Bridgerton’ and name their MVP for Season 2 (46:20). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Shams Charania Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Social: Jomi Adeniran Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benefer is back. Brad and Jen are friends again, and Paris Hilton is somehow still making headlines. 20 years later, we're living in the world that the 2000s tabloids created. On this series, I'm going to tell you the story of a decade of American life through the trash we love to consume. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Claire Malone, and this is just like us, the tabloids that changed America. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Robin, Logan Murdoch here, Rajah, there. Shams in a minute. Rajah, I just feel like this is going to become a segment of you just,

we're just going to make this a segment of you just defending people who outright foul other people and just flagrantly foul other people and just take their side when it's a flagrant foul. I just want to set this scene up. This happened five days ago. John Morant was going in for a dunk and Marcus Morris, clearly a flagrant foul, goes in and takes John Moran, who is obviously Roger's Fave, if you've been listening

to the show, it's Rogers Fave. So for him to do a heel turn and just blatantly take Marcus, take a Morris twin side over this. Is this really egregious? But go ahead, state your case. It's not egregious.

It's not egregious at all. And it's got nothing to do with whether I like John Moran, and I'm a big fan of John Moran. And it's got nothing to do with the reputation of the Morris twins. I get it. I factor all of that in.

And what it boils down to for me is, you know, the essence of the game, which is, I can't allow you to just come in here and do this. You're in a precarious situation launching yourself off of one leg. I'm more stable. I go up. Yeah, I'm not saying it's not a flagrant. I don't believe that to be a flagrant to ejection, though, just because of the way he felt. He predisposed himself to falling like that when he launched himself off of the one leg with that type of force.

Like, if you don't allow people to defend the rim when these dudes are coming in doing that, you get what I saw in a youth basketball tournament in seventh grade, which is a score of 90 to 82 in a game that is that is so short you should never be able to score those points. No one's playing any goddamn defense. This is really what it comes down to, bro. You're just what you're just really upset with youth basketball right now. And that was the conduit to get you to sustain your real frustration. No, no, no, no. That, I had this opinion last week.

I appreciate that. But I was frustrated this weekend watching the youth basketball. But the essence of it is this, Logan, when I see someone coming down the lane and I want to challenge them and they've left the floor on one foot and they are ascending to the rim, if I catch him even cleanly on the ball and he decides to try to power through that, guess where he's going? Where's it going, Roger? He's going right to the floor.

His legs in their momentum will continue to carry. forward. The ball has now been stopped by my hand. His hand is stopped behind the ball, thus creating him to lay horizontally on his back and flatly fall on the floor. It's not a fucking flagrant too. Why can't you just contest? Why can't you contest? Why can't you contest? Why can't you just contest like or? Well, you do. But like if you miss the ball and he's coming really fast, right? And so it's a really hard thing to do to judge exactly where that ball is going to be. Plus, it's that guy's job not to give. you the ball to block, right? So if you go up with an arm or a body in front of him to try to stop

and you miss that ball and make contact with him anywhere on that forearm or anything like that, he is falling in a very ugly way. It cannot be a flagrant too. Okay, one, we'll get to some, we'll get to the shits in a second. But I do want to, I just have a question. There is one option that could just, you know, make sure everybody makes sure Morris Twin stays in the game, make sure John Morant is not on the floor. just let him have that. Can he just let him have that dunk in that one? No, what the fuck are you talking about?

Why can't he have that? Let him have that one. You're all the problem, sir. Let him have it. Bro, it is a regular season game, bro. You think the Morris twins exist as NBA players, if they've ever in your life said, let him have it. My guy, it is 90 to 68, but 422 left in the third quarter, Raja.

Bro, you ain't strapped up no shoes in a while. my guy. Like, you don't let them. We mean let them have it. And let them just have, okay, all right. No. Okay. All right.

I'm just saying, you know. No disrespect. I never played, and I'm not, and I'm not a real one when it comes to hoop. I'm just asking just. Let them have it. That's why, that's, that's what I try to overcome at the high school level, that mentality, which is, ah, this one's not real important because that's infectious. And if you subscribe to that, then the next one's not that important.

And now we got a snowball effect. And now what is important? And you just can't. approach it like that, man. Like, look, my job is to not let you score this shit. I take my job very seriously. Raw. When I have kids, you need to coach them because I, clearly, like right now,

I'm putting them on your basketball team. I can be much for kids, look. You got to, you got to coach the little homies, bro. I'm just saying it. I can be a lot. Clearly. Don't allow easy layups. Do not allow dunks, but coach raw, we're eight.

There's not really any dunks. I don't give a fuck. Hey, fuck him up. So, Roger, last week, we didn't get your real opinion on this. Last week, we did a two-parter on a trade deadline Thursday. Me and you took on the morning festivities when we just talked about just the trades that were having them throughout the week. And about 20 minutes after me and you got off, James Hardin gets traded to the Sixers. I have not gotten your thoughts on this.

What is your overall thoughts? He gets traded for Ben Simmons. overall thoughts of the whole trade. I'm giving you the floor on this one because I know you got a lot of thoughts that you have not gotten off about this. Let me just give it the floor. You know, initially,

I am really interested. I can't wait to get Shams on to ask if there's, like, what went wrong in Brooklyn for James Harding? Because I started to see reports that like James, you know, wanted to be traded. Like he was kind of disgruntled.

Like it wasn't working out. Like, I'm curious as to what went terribly wrong. Like, we've had our opinions on, you know, Kyribian in and out of the lineup and different things, like the instability there. Like, you know, I don't know. What was it that that ultimately got him, you know, kind of out of sorts there in Brooklyn? I ultimately, though, think, Logan, and you might be surprised, but I think it's a win-win of a trade. I think it, I think it's a win-win. I think it works. I think I do. I think it works with, with, for both sides. I think, let's talk on Brooklyn's side first. You get a player who I've always, you know, who I've always,

maintain is really, really good. Can guard five positions. People can throw shade at his performance in the playoffs all they want. But he is a rim-to-rim, rebound, assist, finisher, doesn't need the ball in his hands. There's a lot of space in Brooklyn, so he doesn't have to worry about like Joel Embed kind of being in the way. And then you can kind of just let him go, let him run, let him initiate, let him get up and down the court and get the ball to all these shooters, I think.

And you become better defensively. I think it's a big win for Brooklyn. I always thought that the three miles to feed was a lot. I thought it could work in a perfect world, but it was going to be a lot. So now you don't have one and you get a guy who can initiate and defend if he's in the right head space. Plus, Seth Curry just adds to your ability to kind of space the floor and shoot the ball. I'm pretty skeptical about this, Roger, on both ends. It's okay.

I'm going to let you go. I'm going to let you go. I'm going to let you go. But let me just, if you're the Sixers and you were looking like Brooklyn, you were going to lose, you know, James. James wanted to be in Philly. Joel Embed's never really played with a guy that's as talented offensively as James Hardin. Like, I think that they're going to be a really good fit together. And I think the Sixers are positioned themselves to make a real run at it right now in the Eastern Conference.

I do believe it to be a win-win. Okay, so I'm skeptical about it on two fronts. I'm going to get a little about it for both teams. Let's start with the Sixers. The reason why I'm skeptical about it with the Sixers is because we know that. this about James Harden. We do know that he is a guy that if it doesn't go right,

we literally just saw it. If it doesn't go right, he's shutting down. He's shutting it down. And especially, we've also seen him with another alpha personality. We saw this last time with Chris Paul. How it just, it didn't end well. That did not end well. And then you put him

in the locker room with Joellen Bede in a city like Philadelphia, Roger. A city, you know well. If James is on the shit he was in Brooklyn, he's going to get it from that fan base, and he's going to get it from Joelle and B. Because Joelle and Bede is not going to pull any punches.

Those are valid points. I don't know. We have a few months, and James could be on his best behavior because he wants to. He's got to be. He's got to be, right? He has to be diving for loose balls. He has to be with it.

He got to be with the shits, right? He's got no choice. Based on the most recent evidence, I just don't know. He's got no choice now. That's one more stop. You are 100% right, except what you're leaving out is he just did it. It's a second.

He cannot do that again. He does that again, and he becomes unmovable. And he doesn't get paid. And he doesn't get paid. No, yeah, that's right. He does that again. And you'll have NBA teams being like, now I can't touch that. Can't do it.

Okay. That's fair. But that's my concern in Philly. My concern in Brooklyn is, Man, also great talent, great fit. Love that. What's the best ability, Roger? Availability, bro.

That man's going to be playing. You heard what Charles Barkley said. Oh, you heard what Charles Barkley said. He said about James Harden. He said that boy, that boy would be playing next week, man. His injuries healed when he was. No, no, no, no. I'm talking about the Brooklyn Nets.

I'm talking about the Brooklyn Nets. Oh, you're talking about Kyrie? I'm talking about Kyrie. Kairi. Sorry, about Ben. Sorry. Ben's going to play. Ben's there. Ben's going to be play.

But you put him in a situation where he has to deal with the ins and outs if Kyrie is going to be in the lineup, right? I don't know where to go with this, but I don't know if this, that's going to, you got to deal with that. Plus, Brooklyn, and you don't know if, I just think it's, I think the biggest thing is Kyrie in this whole thing. I don't see it. Every time he asked, he went on a Twitter thing the other day. I don't know if you saw that. They just asked him if he was going to take the vaccine. He doubled, quadrupled down that he wasn't going to take it. And it's my guy.

It's not going to happen, right? He's going to do the Kyrie thing for the rest of the season. You know this. You've been around. I don't know how that jobs well with Ben Simmons or the overall team. They've lost 11 in a row. I don't see. You see what they're rolling out there, bro?

Bro, it's so, it's heartbreaking. You see what they're rolling out there? Come on, man. Like, I mean, you're going to lose a lot of games rolling out. No disrespect to any of the young players that are playing, but they're going to lose. You're going to lose, right? And especially when they play all that, they have a real big home stretch coming. I would be, I would, that doesn't, that doesn't jive well, right?

And then you don't know Kevin's coming back from a knee injury. I think he's going to be fine for the rest of the season. I think he's going to be good because he's had its injury before and play like Kevin Durant. He usually comes back from injuries really, really good. I just don't, I think this can combust in a way that's just historic, Raj. I just don't, I don't know. I'm just very skeptical. Wow.

Look at you being the pessimist. I think you're going to get the best version of Ben Simmons. You got a motivated, you know, player, like, ready to come back and prove, you know, that he can and is able. I think you're dropping him in with a coaching staff that understands his talents and how to use them. I do understand the whole Kyrie thing. That's a mess. Maybe I should put more stock in how hard it's going to be to develop the chemistry they'll need down the stretch. But I think it's going to work out.

I think Kevin Durant is going to fit well. I think your defensive versatility becomes like just even more incredible. I think it's going to work. I don't think it's going to. I think it's just, I don't think it's going to work. And I wanted to work. I hope it works,

you know, both. I still can't believe Kyrie's going to be. Like, you know how, bro, you know how you got to be to be to triple down on that and be like, nah,

like, if I'm the reason we don't win a championship, so be it. Not moving off from my stance. But no, it's the other side of it when he says like, yo, man,

I like, because he, I don't know if you like see what he says on his, I don't. I don't, but they're hilarious, right? Because he'll say, no, I'm not. He's like, you know, man, we got to get some good continuity. You know, we got to start playing well as we're going to start coming together and kumbaya.

And then like, but the biggest way for you to do that is be in the building. And the biggest way for you to get in the building is to get vaccinated. And he's like, well, no, you know, anything except for that. But I'm a team player. I can do all that. But anything but the biggest thing for me to be a team player is like, no, I'm not going to do it. And, you know, and it's just, I just. I don't know. I don't think that that's why I don't think it's going to work.

I think we're seeing the whole other side of this, right? I don't think we're seeing your, I'm very surprised by you being the optimist, Roger. I could tell you were setting me up. You thought I was going to go like bananas or like on the devil's advocate. I don't know, man. I don't know about devil's advocate rob right here now. I really do think this is going to be a good trade for both teams.

In my gut, it's the way I feel. I think, again, Ben Simmons has been sitting around just waiting. to get out of Philly. I think he's got more to prove than anybody that's been moved this year. I think he comes back. He's motivated to play. Now, that Kyrie stuff again, that's a poop show.

And that could, ultimately... A pretty big poop show that has broken up teams, Roger. Yeah, no, no, no, that's fair. It's fair. But as far as Ben Simmons goes, I think he's going to be good and I think he's going to be good for what Brooklyn wants to do. All right.

And now, our guest of the day, Shams. Right, we got a special guest in the building, dog. It's pretty cool. A little post-trade deadline popping guest out here. You know what I'm saying? One of the homies. We got Shams in the building.

Shams. How you doing, Big Dog? Guys, what's up, man? I'm good. How are you guys doing? Chilling, man. You already know. Hey, I'm coming out the box.

Shams. What was the first, the first tweet that got the whole persona, that is you now rolling. Like, what was the first scoop that broke? And they were like, oh, shit, he's plugged in, man. We got to follow that. That's a great question. I mean, for me, it started a lot with, like, G-League and, like, 10 days and EuroLeague signing.

So for me, those were when I feel like I arrived. But when I think people probably started to notice me with some level of cut a booty, it was probably 2014 January. Luwold Dane got traded from the Bulls, the Cavs for Andrew Bynum. some draft picks. I remember when I put that out, first of all, I had to be 100% right about something like that. If I was going to put any type of information out at that point or at any point, even now in my career, like, the biggest thing for me is being 100% accurate. So as soon as I got that out there, it's like, oh, like I'm first on this, but I'm right on this. And then that's when for

me, people started, I think, take notice. And I think, you know, it started to help me build. And more than anything at that point, I mean, 2014, I was 20 years old. It was just helping me feel vindicated and validated with what I was doing. Because it's the time I was driving to Milwaukee, driving to Indiana for games. I wasn't able to be credentialed for games in Chicago. So I was going to Milwaukee and Indiana. So when I was going, like, I didn't know, like, I'm making these drives. I'm going to these games.

I'm driving back at two, three in the morning at times with a final exam the next day. And I didn't know what I was doing was the right. Like, I was asking myself a lot of the time, like, what am I doing? Like, I should be, you know, partying or I should be. studying for exams, but I knew the path that I wanted to be on. I knew what I wanted to do. And so more than anything, when I put that tweet out, I think it was more validation for me in terms of being on the right path than anything else.

That's what's up. You got to respect to grind, bro. You got to respect it. I mean, that's literally all it is, man. Isn't that the funnest time, no, Shams? Like, when you're when you're driving, you don't know necessarily what to do, man. You don't know what you're about to do, but then, like, that was always the funnest part for me, man.

Like when you, it's not now necessarily, not as fun as now, but it was a great time. I missed those times, man. That was fun. Yeah, it's like, it's like you have a, what's the right word? Naivity. Like, you have a way of yourself where you just, you kind of don't know what you're doing. I so it's crazy, you know, I say this now, but I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing. You know, like I still feel like I'm grinding and trying to like, still trying to learn things.

I mean, I'm at a point now where I feel like people just see the end result. But, you know, how only I'm. know and people that have known me for an amount of time understand what it was like in you know in 2012 or 2013 2014 when I was first starting to really break into this so I know we got shit to talk about that's relevant to what happened but now I'm kind of fascinated by by by the journey right like it kind of parallels like a young hooper who doesn't get drafted right and early in his career and he's on that same kind of grind you're talking about right like driving from CBA City to CBA City or USBL.

Like, it's the same grind, right? Not sure whether that's just going to pop or you should take a regular job or, but you love to do it. And so I'm doing it. I'm interested in like the process of, of you like not being credentialed, but driving down to these cities. And like, how do you start to develop the connects? Like, when you get to the arena, like, who are you talking to?

Where are you? Where you're starting to put together like your network of people that allows you to ultimately be as tapped in as you are. Yeah, so I mean, I knew I wanted to write. You know, like I had a passion for writing. I loved playing too. I just couldn't, you know, I just wasn't at that level where I could play in the league. So once I knew and I got cut playing basketball in high school, I'm like, I got to figure out my next, next path.

And so for me, it was always writing in the behind the scenes of players and trades and signing. So I started writing in high school, junior year of high school. And then from there, it was literally a lot of just analysis. pieces and analysis stories. And I started just cold calling, cold texting, whether it was agents, league executives and players. And that's literally all it was. I was just cold calling people at that point. I don't even know why people responded to me at that point. But the amount of people that did, I saw some connections to this day with people that I first cold called or cold texted when I was 18, 19 years old, literally during the headlights. So that's really how I first started

from the building connections. But you know, like Logue knows. and you know for sure, Rajah, like, the only way that you can really get a feel for people is when you do things in person. So for me, going to Summer League in 2013, going to the G League showcase, going to all these different events over the course of the year, going and covering games, that for me was the big moment where I could finally put a face to people and them to understand where I'm coming from, what kind of person I am. And so when I first covered my first Summer League in 2013, I would literally just be walking up to people. They definitely didn't know who I was. And I didn't really know who they were as people. I obviously knew them by name. So it was during the headlights, man.

And so I think it just continued to build and build and build. And obviously, people see the end result. But it was just a lot of cold, cold calls, cold intros, cold, you know, DMs at time. Like, it was just at that point just shooting a shot. And I wasn't really, I didn't really have a conscience with what I was doing. Now I feel like I think more in terms of, like I want to be more calculating, right? In terms of how I moved.

But back then, I really had no sense. sense of anything. So I was just, I was just shooting for everything. That's what's all right. You got to shoot them shots, Logan, real ones. Shoot them shots. Oh, mammas. All right, let's get to the, let's get to the trade deadline. I do want to go over some, some things. Let's start with the Brooklyn and the Sixers with James Hard and Ben Simmons. You know, there's a lot of, you know, I was hearing some things like in the fall about, you know, this potentially happened. At least James going, you know, to Philly. And I know you've heard some of the same things, but in your eyes, Shams, when did this deal come together and why did it have to come together right now

as opposed to in the off season when, you know, maybe a sign-in trade or something like that could happen. Why did this trade need to happen right now for both teams? Yeah, that's a great question. So I think when you look at it from the Philadelphia perspective, they, they were really trying to be patient with the process, right? When you look at how Darry and that front office was thinking, they were willing to wait for the summertime. They knew the guy that they wanted. Everyone knew who they wanted. They wanted James Harden. I remember I did some reporting on it a few weeks ago. A couple weeks before I did the report on Friday when I said that the Nets are now open to discussions. I think that broke the damn. But a couple weeks prior, me and Sam, Amick, a colleague

of mine, we did a story about how Philadelphia was literally going to wait for the offseason to make a move on Ben Simmons, which was going to be a kind of a dull moment for trade deadline where we've been anticipating this Ben Simmons trade and then it just gets prolonged until the summer. So we were all kind of in that same mode. where we were waiting for the offseason for that shoot-a-drop. But over the next two weeks, and obviously that week of the week before the trade devine is really when James Hardin started to sit games.

We saw what happened in Sacramento when he had four points. Then he started sitting a couple games with the, you know, what he said, you know, what the team said was a hamstring injury. I think there was definitely reason for people in that locker room to doubt whether he had a real hamstring injury. For sure, that was a topic of conversation. but that was when it really became real as far as being a real possibility. It was a week before the trade deadline where when Brooklyn understood that if we have a guy

in James Hardin who's checked out, the whole locker room knows it from Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving on down, we need to find a way to address it. And so they could have either continued to go about it the way they went about it and played out the year probably would have been a toxic second half of the season. Like, Raja, you probably know, like when you have a guy that of that magnitude, in your locker room that is clearly checked out. He has a game in Sacramento where, you know, I think it's fair to say where people were within that locker room,

within those confines were wondering, did he just quit on us? And then he sits multiple games for a hamstring injury when, you know, there was no sign of a hamstring injury. There was a sign of that hand injury, but there was no hamstring. So I think it would have just led to a very toxic second half of the season. So that's why the trade needed to happen for Brooklyn.

And for Philadelphia needed to happen because they were trying to find a way off Ben Simmons for a period of time, right? He was almost moved for James Harden a year prior when in January, Tim and Fratita went to James Hardin and said, listen, we'll move you to Brooklyn or Philly and James Hardin chose Brooklyn. But a year later, the deal happens and the deal happens in a way where both sides, I think it was inevitable, that this was what was going to happen? It's only a matter was it going to happen now or in the offseason.

So, Shams, like when someone, when you got, when you have someone that the team is wondering whether or not the injury is real. And we've gotten to that point. And it happens more often than people want to believe in the NBA. But let's, we've gotten to that point as James Harden, someone who would have rather gone to Brooklyn than Philly in the first place. What, were there any indications as to what turned him off to the situation there in Brooklyn? Like, how do you get to that point relatively quickly like that if you're James Harden? I think the biggest thing was just the inconsistency. I think he wanted to go to Brooklyn and he thought him, Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, they'd join a super team.

And anytime you make a decision to join a team like that, you know, he might have thought that winning was going to come a little easier than it did. And when he went there and he saw the circumstances, Kyrie Irving in and out of the lineup this year, obviously they banished him from the team essentially to begin the year because he wasn't following the COVID-19 mandates in New York City. Then he ends up coming back. And that was a lot of, you know, Kevin Durant, there's no question. from Kevin Durant on down in that locker room, they had a change of stance in terms of how they felt. They wanted him back in that lineup.

So when Kyrie Irvin came back, I think just the inconsistency of the lineup, Kevin Durant then being hurt. You know, I always think about if Kevin Durant was healthy for this period of time for the last month or so, didn't have that MCL sprain, what things have been differently? Like, could this have gone differently?

Could they have found a way to handle this James Hardin situation? And could James Harden not even have been upset to the point of wanting to leave? I think that's a fair thing to always ask. And I think there was always going to be this what if that hovers around this team. But to me, the biggest thing would be the inconsistency within the lineup. And also style of play. You know, I did some reporting on it a couple weeks ago. And James Hardin has a very, I think he isn't acquired taste when it comes as a player, right?

He's a guy that wants to have the ball in his hands a lot. He loves to play his brain of basketball from his Houston Rock. it stays. And that's just not something that Kevin Durant in that organization, Kyrie Irving, Steve Nash, that's just not the style of play that they want. So it was interesting. I'd have people tell me that the coaching staff literally would

have to change their game plan when he's on the floor versus when he's off the floor. When he's on the floor, obviously the balls in his hands a lot. When he's off the floor, it's totally different. It's free flowing. And there was a period of time when Kevin Durant led this team with a bunch of role players. I think even Kevin Durant and that whole organization

saw, you know, when we're playing free flowing, The game is funner. It's a better environment. And I think at the end of the day, both sides kind of understood that that's where we want to be. Is James Hardin wants to have the ball? And there's a brand of basketball that Steve Nash, Kevin Durant want to play that obviously is not that. Well, you answered that follow-up I was going to have, Logan, about about inconsistency versus role change. Do you know what I mean?

Like, and role change maybe because of the inconsistency. And I like to separate the two because you can have beefs with the end. inconsistency within the organization and the way players are kind of in and out and how things are being run. But, you know, it's completely something different when you're just not really if you don't love the way your role has changed and you don't want to play like that. And he answered that question. And I will just double down because I know you want to talk. People take for granted when people are so good with that ball, how difficult it is to play with them sometimes. All they see is that person giving you the ball to get your jump shot off. And they're like, well, he's got

11 or 12 assists like he's doing and and you as someone on the team is like yeah but i haven't touched that shit in three or four minutes so like it's really difficult to just you know and so in their brilliance with the ball sometimes you know what gets lost is it can be really hard to play like that if you're someone else around them yeah for sure how you spoke on shams you said something brought up kevin and he's the one that's kind of in the middle of all this right where he he's the reason why James is there, was there. He's the kind of guy that keeps this thing altogether. Where does he stand in all of this?

How does he feel? Because at a point in time, you know, James was his homie. James was, they were, they played in OKC, they, you know, and he brings him back. How does Kevin feel about James dipping the way he did when they had a goal in mind to win a title together? Yeah, I think the biggest, the biggest thing I think Kevin during, not only Kevin Durant, but also Kyrie Irving and that whole locker room,

I think this year there's been such an importance on just winning, right, and trying to win a championship. And I know that's what Kevin Durant has got his mind on this entire season. He felt like this is a championship year for them. And they were on that trek. And I think before he got injured, and I always asked like, what if he didn't get hurt? What if he was able to be in the lineup?

He probably would have kept this thing together. And James Hardin's frustrations might not have boiled over to the point where he ended up, you know, basically, finding a way out of that organization. Maybe that doesn't happen if you're winning games. And Rajah brought up the point about our role. There's no question. Like that's definitely something that played a part in this because there's two totally

different methodologies. And as much as Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving, James Hardin met to try to figure out some kind of a consensus. They just couldn't get on the same page when it mattered most when there was turmoil, when there was adversity. That's when you need all those characteristics to come through the most. And so I always wonder if this team was winning games, if they weren't just, you know, they're on an 11 game losing streak right now as we're taping this.

Let's say they had won seven of the last 11 or nine of the last 11. Maybe James Hardin is still on the team because if you're James Hardin, you probably don't even try to find a way out if you're winning games, right? You can't. You can't. When you're winning games, you're like if you're discontent and you're winning games, you're a real asshole if you act like one. But when things go bad, it gives you the platform to go ahead and do what you want to do.

Well, build it on that route, I do want to talk. I want to make sure I talk about the whole totality in this. And this is something that me and you talk about often on this podcast is the element of Kyrie. Right. How does that work? When you're bringing Ben Simmons into the fold into a new team and you want to have continuity. Raja always talk about you need consistency within a roster, how does Brooklyn try to find that when there's the element of the vaccine with Kyrie where he is going to be in and out of the lineup, whether he's healthy or not, until. something until if or until something changes, how does Steve Nash or how are the Brooklyn

that's trying to navigate that situation? Well, first is like getting these guys on the floor, right? So I think I think Seth Curry, Drummond, will get on the floor here sooner. And then Ben Simmons, the hope is that him and Kevin Durant come back in line up after the All-Star break at some point. So just getting that back on the floor and building some habits. And then really just after that is praying and hoping that the mandate in New York City drops.

Because if that mandate doesn't drop and get lit, in New York City. I mean, this team is going to have to deal with struggles, I think, for the second half of the year because you need Kyrie Irving in your lineup. That guy is so important to that team and winning games.

And I think that's what Kevin Durant in that entire organization and the players and the roster understood is when they went through that first half, first stretch of games without Kyrie Irving and they lost against the Warriors. They lost against the Phoenix Suns. They understood they're not really on those teams level without Kyrie Irving in the lineup. And when they brought him back, He gave them a level of, I think security, gave them a level of confidence that they didn't have without him.

And so, you know, even going back to your previous question on Kevin Durant, I think it's just having guys that are committed and that are really all in this organization. Obviously, James Hardin was not. And now you're bringing in guys, Ben Simmons, I've been told he's very excited. He has been working out. He is ready. And mentally, he wasn't ready to play in Philadelphia. Now, I think you're going to see a shift. I think he'll be ready to go.

I think he'll be ready to play. But how quick and how good he'll be right off the bat, that will be an interesting question. But he should play that Draymond Green role at bare minimum, right? When he talk about a guy that can guard one to five, they can ball handle, can distribute, can rebound, can block shots. But it's just about getting these guys on the floor and then hoping and praying that the mandate gets lifted. I mean, Philly, we're talking about James Harden. He's opting into a player option, to my understanding. And what does that mean for an extension in Philly?

What does his long-term future in Philly look like? So he was going to opt into that player option. I reported he opted in. And he actually, the paperwork was filed, but they did not meet the buzzer for the opt-in. So James Hardin, so I guess that's breaking news on this. I think people have covered it since then. But he still has the option to opt-in in the summer. There was a time period where he could have opted in before the trade in conjunction with the trade.

They ended up not filing the paperwork in time. so a little bit of a procedural, you know, situation where that didn't happen because of paperwork. But he will have the option to opt in and then extend in the office. So he can get up to five years, 275 in extension, you know, or does the organization go the route of trying to persuade him over the next, you know, three, four, five months and see if he can opt out and then sign a deal like Chris Paul signed, right? Chris Paul opted out from 44 million-ish and then signed four years 120. So he ended up getting more over the course of that time period, but obviously 30 million over the course of the four-year deal while James Harden would get about 50 million per year on that new extension. So we'll see what happens. I think the opt-in, obviously, that that situation will play itself out.

I still think the intent is to opt in. This is obviously for James Harden, but this team will have a period of time. But this is where he's wanted to be, right? Over the last few weeks, it's been apparent Philadelphia is going to be, you know, probably a good shot to be as long term home. Logan, I want to go back to you asking about Brooklyn and what they do. What you do to help with the continuity there if Kyrie is in and out, while I agree completely that they need him to be that upper echelon beating championship level teams. You tell Kyrie to just be a closer. Like, just finish, please.

don't have the ball in your hand, a ton. Like let Ben Simmons push that thing, get it off the board, let him play that Draymond kind of role. And then it's easier to drop a mercenary type of player, a cat that's just going to come in and finish plays back into a lineup sometimes, than it is to drop like an orchestrator of your offense, a guy that's going to have the ball all the time.

So I think that's the way you approach it, at least from an X's and O's in a philosophical standpoint. Like, look, Kyrie, we know you're going to be and out that's going to be sporadic, just don't dominate the ball. Let us run. Let us get out. When you get it, cook. But like, let's let's let everybody else run and continue to do what they do. And then we just kind of drop your offense back in, you know, when you're available. Yeah. Well, I do want to talk about some other things around the league. You know, we saw one of the less, it wasn't as big a trade as the Brooklyn trade, but Pryzing is going to Washington.

And, you know, I don't necessarily want to talk about the Pryzingis, how he's going to fit in. but more so of like, what does that mean for a Bradley Bill who is, you know, is going to be approaching free agency and, you know, watches at the stage where they want to, you know, show Bill that, hey, this is a viable place for you to stay long term. We want you to finish your career here. What does that, what do that move do for Bradley wanting to stay or maybe having eyes elsewhere? I think it's a good indication that the Wizards feel like Bradley Beal will be there long term,

that he's going to sign that Supermax, you know, contract in the offseason, five years around $250 million. I think that that is an indication that they feel like they compare Chris Osport, Ingins and Bradley Beal together and try to make a run in the Eastern Conference. Now, whether a KP is the guy for Brad Beale and the guy that should be put around Bradbill, I mean, only time can tell. I think he's dealt with a lot of knee issues and foot issues over the years. We'll see if he stays healthy and on the floor.

I know when you look at Dallas getting off him, I think that was the major surprised the deadline, right? When he look at, for them to trade Chris Dasperos-Zer after billing him as a star next to Luca Donches, as a co-star next to Luca Donches, and just flipping him away for a guy like Spencer Dinwiddie, who, you know, like he had a tough start to the year. And there's no question that there was turmoil in Washington.

Davis Bertons as a boatload of money owed him over the next several years. So I think that that trade was a surprise because no one thought that Chris Osperoszegis was going to get moved for so little, right? when you think about the value that people perceive a guy on a max contract should get. So Toronto Raptors, they definitely consider a possible trade for Chris Oswald. That didn't pan out, obviously. And so the Mavericks were really, really motivated to get a deal done for KP. Now, is that a good sign for the future in Washington?

I'm not sure. But I do believe that the Wizards and that organization feel very confident in the future for Brad Biel there. What about the other side of that, Luca? You know, you trade away Porzingis, and then you get, you know, Spencer Dinwiddie, and you get Bertans, who is not necessarily on the same level, like it's skill-wise as Porzingis is. What does that mean long term for the Dallas Mavericks and what Luke would want? I know he's going to be there for the foreseeable future, but like, you know, his team, it's on paper, it looks like they've regressed as a roster. I think, I think it makes it clear that they still need a co-star there with him. So that's for sure going to be a priority long term.

but I think bigger than anything, this allowed them to clear the books. And they wanted to make sure that they were able to have a clean slate, not have that max contract, that second max contract with Luca Danty's hanging over that organization. And Spencer Dinhutti's got two years left on his deal. The third year has a partial. And Davos Bertans has a few more years left too. But the hope is get another max contract off your books and be able to go, be aggressive when you want to go pursue another max player.

I think that's obviously the mindset of the Mavericks right now. I want to switch gears, Logan. I know it might not have been on your rundown, but we talk about the Lakers all the time on this bad boy. And obviously they weren't able to pull anything off around the deadline, but I want to know if you have any indication of was it, was it a close, like, were they close to pulling anything off? You know, where is their mind?

Because to me, it just looks like they're in a really bad place as a funky locker room. So I'm just curious. I mean, I don't know. Like what was the indication around that? around the deadline or where they may go next, even this offseason? Yeah, I think they were active in terms of they had a couple of players that they targeted. One was Cam Reddish and another one was Alec Berks from the Knicks. So they tried to make a deal, a three-team deal.

They would have ended up with Alec Burks and Cambrich. They would have sent a second round pick to New York, Taylor and Horton Tucker to Toronto. Toronto would have sent drocket to the Knicks, maybe even Ken Birx somewhere. But overall, Nerlins Noel was going to end up in Toronto. there were a couple hiccups on the Knicks and Toronto Raptors end that ended up making it so that there was no deal. The deal, the Lakers were motivated to get that deal done. And they were even willing to put in another second round pick if that's what it took to get a deal done. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

But after that, they discussed another framework where Taylor and Horn Tucker would have ended up in Toronto for a potential first-on-pick. But that deal didn't end up happening either. So they made a couple, they made a couple attempts on the edges. But any time there was anything big that came up, every team wanted their 2027 first round draft pick. And when you talk about trading a pick that far out, I don't think it would have been a wise move for the Lakers because that's a pick where you don't know what it ends up being.

It could be a lottery pick. It could end up being an asset that you need down the line in a couple of years when you might have a better team suitable to make a run. This team, I think, you know, I think that as much as the Lakers put stock into this year in terms of wanting to win a championship this year, they went out and made that Russell Westwick trade, I think they've understood as the years gone on that this team, if we're going to be judicious, be smart.

But how we approach these next few years in the future of this organization, we can't make short-term moves for this team. Because I don't think this team has the championship makings. I think we can all kind of agree on that. So I think if you know that and you understand that you want to make sure you make judicious moves in the long term. That's really interesting to me, man, because that's typically very hard to do with the LeBron window open type of team. like it's usually in like contradiction to what he's trying to get done. So that's, that's just interesting to me, right?

Like, because Logan, we talk about it all the time. Like, it's a very hard thing to balance. I think it's the right approach. But when you got LeBron sitting there in a window, it's not that easy to say,

hey, we're going to be judicious and we want to protect. You know, you're usually giving up shit to make that, that a possibility. Yeah. 100%. And I think when you look at Laker fans and how I think the uproar was when they

didn't make a deal of the deadline, I think it's tough to appeal to an audience like that. But I think teams around the league, other executives, I think even they look at the Lakers and say that they made smart moves by really not making any moves. Because their best move was really letting this team and let this year run its course, let the contracts continue to come off the books and then make decisions coming up this summer when you have only one year left on Russell Wester's Steel. When you have guys that might be entering even further down in their contracts.

So making no moves is probably the smart move for the Lakers this year. Lakers were in San Francisco recently, and Russ had a good game. But there does seem like to be a weird vibe around that team with Russ. What happened with him during the deadline? Was there ever any moves to get him maybe on the table for him to be traded? And why did the ultimately, if there were any moves that Russ is still in the Lakers roster? And what does that mean? That's a lot of questions, Sean.

What does that mean for Russ's future in Los Angeles? Angeles. Yeah. I mean, the Rockets were one of the teams that initiated conversations with the Lakers, something around John Wall. You know, there are a couple different scenarios that came up. John Wall and Christian Wood for, you know, Russell Westbrook and a first-arm pick or John Wall for Russell Westbrook and maybe a draft swap or picks from the Lakers going

in the Rockets. But, you know, when you look at it from the Lakers perspective, like that deal doesn't make much sense, right? When you look at a guy in John Wall, you know, he, does that make you a better team right now? I mean, if John Wall is healthy and he's looking good, maybe marginally, but that's not a move that you make and giving up future draft capital to make your team marginally better. That's not a move that I think made sense for the Lakers. And obviously, they ended up not giving that scenario much thought.

I think that was something that obviously the Rockets came with, but it never made sense in the totality of things. And other than that, they had nothing. I mean, it was not like there was a flurry of calls for Russell Westbrook in terms of trying to see if there's a, there's a trade viable. I mean, it's hard to look at his game and say he's, he's, he's, it's obvious he's on another point in his career right now. But, um, I think more than anything, that contract makes it even more tougher, right? If this is a guy that's making the minimum or a guy that's making five million, you're probably not looking at him in the light that I think obviously fans and people are. I'll move up the up to the Pacific Northwest a little bit,

talk about Portland because we had a healthy conversation shams regarding, um, you know, Dame, we've said for a long time, at least in my opinion, I thought Dame needed to, you know, explore other opportunities, right? And so Logan was talking about that. And then they moved CJ. And I played Devils Advocate, and I was asking, well, what if, what if the CJ is the Blazers finally realizing that this core isn't it? We're going to liquidate and position ourselves to really build around him. So my question to you is, what are they thinking up there? Like, what's the game plan now to, for the for the Trailblazers? Because this can't be a rebuild. Dave's not signing up for a rebuild, right?

So I got to imagine they're looking to be real players real soon in something. Yeah, I think definitely that those two trades were probably were definitely a, you know, a sign that they understood that that core. When you look at Dame Lillard, C.J. McCollum, that wasn't going to be the core that was going to be moving forward. I think they explored deals for C.J. last offseason, obviously nothing came about that at that point, Neil O'Shea, their GM at that point thought was worthy. and then, you know, the new interim GM, Joe Cronin,

he was able to look at the landscape again. And obviously made that deal in New Orleans where you get Josh Hart, who, you know, is an energetic player, can bring some toughness, as well as getting draft assets. And then you clear Norm Powell, who signed that massive five-year, $90 million deal. You clear that off your books and get a second-round pick.

So I think those deals were definitely a lot, helping allow them to clear some flexibility for the future. But there's no doubt that this summer, there's a level of pressure on Portland to make sure that this team is competitive and not rebuilding or retooling. Because if it is rebuilding, retooling, Damien Lillard will look at that situation and have to look at his other options. And that's why the onus will continue to be on Portland and that organization to find ways to contend. And I would expect them to try to find a way back into the Jeremy Grant sweepstakes. Jeremy Grant stayed in Detroit through the deadline.

and I do believe there's going to be another window possibly right before the draft. You know, Detroit's going to have to make a decision. Do we extend Jeremy Grant or do we trade him? And if it's another time where they're going to be open to trade talks, Portland's going to be definitely very involved there. So we'll see what moves they end up making. But if Portland doesn't find a way to, you know, retool the team in a winning manner and make this team a more competitive organization,

Damien Little will have no choice. I'm told but to continue to look at it. other options. Well, there it is, man. Thanks so much, Shams. Thanks for coming on, man. You can read him at the athletic.com. Man, so much fun shopping it up with Shams. But before we get on here, did you see the Bridgerton? Did you see the Bridgerton?

Bridgeton, boys. Bridgeton, boys. Okay. We're back. I don't know, though. The Duke's not, I don't know, bro. I'm going to just going to be honest. I really enjoyed, you know, that first season.

I just, because Sasha Mac had some takes. we have to get Sasha Mac on here to really, she has some big takes about this. What did I feel like, Jomey. Jomey's here too. It's time for Bridgetton talk. It's, Jomey, Jomey's joining him too. Right.

Before we get to your point, I want to get to Sasha Mac real quick, because Sasha had some takes about what is wrong, including the fact that someone is may or may not be a hottie. So, Sasha, what is your beef with this, this new season of Bridgetton and, Do you think they can overcome the level of hotness? My main problem is that I don't think this,

the brother can hold up a season, the older brother. He's not, he can't carry. He can't carry it. I don't think that he has, like, I just don't have the interest level. I found him like really annoying last season. And just like hardheaded and making poor decisions, the first two,

the whole like dual part of that season was. so dumb and that was completely his fault and he couldn't get over his shit and i just i just find him like so annoying she was like don't do it and he was like i have to do this i'm going to die for this and it's like you don't maybe you should you know what i mean maybe you should i don't know my question to you is really quickly and i want to get raja's take on this well but i want to ask you this first yeah is lady what is it going to be the level of messiness that comes from lady Whistledown. Considering her identity

has been it's revealed to us. We know who it is. Yeah. The fact that it's revealed, will the messiness get to a higher level or will it go to it? What is the messiness meter?

Well, I think it's going to be like at a, I think it's going to be an eight out of ten, right? Here's my figure. Because the audience, we know who she is, right? And so you hope that the show plays into that. And you know,

notes or whatever and people are like, oh, I'm going to go see spoiler alert. And then she kind of like cover it up or something. You know, she got to be on a little sneaky sneak, you know, because we know who she is. Ultimately, though, I think as a whole, the show is going to be a little interesting because the streets have been saying that Kate, played by Simone Ashley and Anthony, the book readers say it's like enemies to lovers type trope. And I'm going to be, I'm going to be here. I'm here for that. I love that stuff. that's one of my favorite tropes in all of books and all of in all of television. So I don't know.

It's not our boy, right? It's not the Duke, you know, but it has a potential to be, I don't say as interesting because I don't know if Anthony has that charisma, you know, clearly. But, you know, it's going to be interesting to say the least. There's going to be some sexual tension problems. Oh, I mean, it's Bridgetton. Come on now. Like, this was the show that, like, I would be watching this while full. laundry and awesome would come in and he'd be like this whole show is just is it just a one giant

sex scene and i was like no i promise there's other stuff but like yeah kind of though uh then no yeah let me just let me just put this out there i was here for duke and daphne all right like that was my i like that's what i was there for i was there for yeah ultimately what i am going to do is trust in shonda That's what I'm going to do. I've loved all over shows. I'm going to put my faith in that shit. And I think she's going to deliver. She's never let me down.

So that's where I'm riding. Trust the Bridgeton process. So without Simon there, we all know Simon put up 45 a game, 45 an episode, brought down 17 rebounds, gave us 10 assists. Every single episode, he did it. He did his job every single time. Okay. he burns for this for this series right raja how big of a void is that going to be and can the can the show

overcome it like how is it going to be you know who's going to pick up the slack look when you lose a player like that i don't think you replace him with another player right you lose someone like that everyone's got to step up and play a bigger role everyone's got to chip in right so like every character's got to bite off a little bit more to fill that void you i'm telling you you had to I don't think I'm in the minority when I say I was here for the Duke and Daphne. Like you guys all nodded when I said that. So thinking that you're going to slide the older brother

and to Sasha's point, expect him to carry it, I'm with Sasha. I don't know that he's got the chops for that. I just need everyone. This is why I say I trust the process with Shonda. I trust Shonda, right? To create a storyline that just gives you more from each character to supplement for us missing the Duke.

I don't think you were a place to. Duke dog. Okay, all right. A little rapid fire before we get out of here. I'm going to go first. I'm going to ask who is going to be the MVP of this season. My MVP, I got Lady Whistledown going for 40 at night. Okay. I got Lady Whistledown going. Sasser Mack, who is your MVP for this season? Who's going to be the one that we go and we're like, oh, okay, they won that season. Who you got? Okay, so I have, Jomi, what's her name, the new person from Syng. Simone Ashley. Okay, I have Simone Ashley as my like top. I think she's going to be an awesome addition. She's so good in sex education.

I just like her new, a little new blood. It's good. It's good for the show to get some new people in there. And like, you know, you lose in some of the old storylines. Let's get some new people. I'm excited about that. And then also, again, I don't know her name. It's been so long since I watched the show.

Who is the lady? I don't need. I might just have to show you a picture. Yeah, the Duke's like kind of like sponsor type of lady. You know exactly. I'm talking about her. Yeah, I know you're talking about. I have no idea what her name is.

Okay. I don't know her name either, but that's where I'm going. I saw a shot of her looking mischievous in the, in the trailer. And I was like, okay. Because she was like, she's like watching a cotillion kind of like. She knows everything. Yeah. Does she know who Lady Whistledown is?

I don't know. She's hell and as she's got a big part to play. I would like, she's a character of. who played a kind of medium small part in the last season that I would like to see that turned up because she killed it. There are more shots out there. Is that your MVP?

Is that your MVP, Roger? That's your MVP. I was going to say exactly what Sasha said, but in reverse order. I was going to go with her and then New Chick because I don't know her name. Okay, okay. I was going to go with Simone Ashley as well.

But, you know, hearing what, we're hearing what Sasha and Roger said, I'm going to, I'm going to zag a little bit, right? I'm going to say, It's going to be Jonathan Bailey as Anthony, man. Oh. See, I'm going to trust the Shonda Lam process. Like Rajah said, right?

They don't bring him up, you know, to be the star guy without any reason. That's fair. You understand? You know, it wasn't an accident. And they cast him before, they cast him, and they knew that the second season was going to be about him when they cast him. Oh. Exactly. You're on to something.

Exactly. You know, they traded away to star to make a bigger role for the home. me. So this is like, what you're saying it's like Brett Favre Aaron Rogers

type stuff. Hey, it might be. Alex Smith, Pat Mahomes. It might be. I'm not there to say it yet would come back to me

halfway through, you know, and we can revisit. Philip Rivers Drew Brees. Montee Ellis, Steph Curry. Something like that. Something like that.

I'll tell you right now. March 25th, lock the fuck in. Bridger, boys back. Back, baby. Let's go! That was been our Monday edition of

Real Ones. We will see you next Thursday, but in the meantime, make sure you check out our slate on the ringer NBA feed. That is upside high. That is fall on the void with Kevin O'Connor. That is group chat. That is the answer. You ready for this propaganda, Roger? Man, is R2C2? With who? Rajabelle.

Valo legend, the crestside clowns Cecee Sabathia. Let's keep it going, man. Season 3 on Z-Way. Black Girl's songbook with who? Roger Bell. My girl, town legend. Daniel Smith. Holla.

See you guys Thursday.