The Ringer NBA Show - Ben Simmons Shoots 3s Now, We Just Can’t Quit the Thunder, and Preseason True or False | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 9, 2019

Let’s overreact to preseason basketball! Ben Simmons shoots (and makes) a 3-pointer (7:30), the Oklahoma City Thunder flashes double–Ewing Theory potential (13:07), and the baby Pelicans might grow up quicker than anyone expects (22:59). Host: Chris Ryan Guest: Justin Verrier Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Basketball is very good. Mark Hell Fultz will win most improved player. The only LA champions this year will be the Dodgers. The Knicks will play a five-power forward lineup. Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to Slow NBA News Day. J.K., it's the one and only group chat, except no substitutes. I'm Chris Ryan.

I'm joined by Dust Verrier. The news is always vibrant here, my friend. Oh, man, it's moving very quickly for the NBA right now. As you guys are obviously aware, because it is an international incident, the NBA is having some issues with China, its partners in business. hits adversaries currently in terms of the geopolitical landscape. It was touched on on multiple podcasts this week. John Gonzalez talked about it on Monday on Heat Check, KOC, and Verno talked about it on

the mismatch yesterday. Justin and I, we want to talk about this. We also are fully aware that a lot could change in the next couple of hours. So I think we'll probably keep our remarks pretty vague here, which is exactly what you want, two basketball guys, keeping having really vague remarks about, uh, international political incidents. Justin, the thing that I was really, that really has jumped out at me

over the last 12 hours was the ejection of the fan at the Wells Fargo Center at last night's Sixers game. Fan was holding up some signage, some pro-Hong Kong signage, and was ejected from the game. And it was just more of a sign that I think that this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better,

particularly speaking about the NBA to say nothing about everything that's happening in Hong Kong. Yeah, I don't know if you want me to comment so much on geopolitics, just because I will show my ass very quickly. Right. But I think this is a clear sign that it's going to bleed into other aspects of life. And it's going to be hard to just suppress it entirely.

I think I had assumed that a lot of fans would just turn off from this story, simply because it's kind of like the CBA negotiations where it has pretty significant effects, if not just like the biggest effects of anything. But I just don't know if people want to like dive into like the legal S or in this case some pretty tricky like politics and international relations. but clearly this showing up at a game in the States, it's a sign that perhaps this is a lot bigger and maybe we'll start seeing more of this, not less.

Yeah, I mean, this was a game against the Guangzhou Long Lions in Philly, and we'll talk a little bit about that game in a few minutes. The thing that really also jumped out at me was the increasing feeling in the NBA over the last year, 18 months or so, and this is something that's been affecting the NFL, obviously, in the advent of after Kaepernick and the kneeling protests, was the 24-hour-a-day political observation cycle, which essentially is that everything and anything happening in and around this sport

is up for observation and debate. And you saw it over the last couple of days with people asking Kerr and Popovich and pretty much anybody who would answer anybody's question about what they thought about this situation. And not unlike the way you and I are speaking in halting terms about this, guys being like, I'm not really sure how to address this because it is a really fluid evolving situation. And you can have your personal political beliefs about the situation in Hong Kong.

But I think all of these people now are fully recognizing the severity and the seriousness of the situation, then it's not the same thing as commenting on Trump, which I think speaks to the nature of the situation in China in terms of like how loaded political statements can be. But I think this is just going to get a lot more complicated as it goes on if it's not already like the most complicated thing. The other thing that really leapt out at me was a Jack McCollum tweet. yesterday. That was an excerpt from an interview he did with David Stern in 2003 where Stern essentially says, like, this is going to be complicated in some point. He was talking about the NBA's burgeoning relationship with China going into that market, making inroads into that market. And he was like, it's a real balance. But at the end of the day, I work for the owners. And my job is to make

them as much money as possible. Yeah, I think this is a fascinating look at probably the biggest obstacle Adam Silver has faced at this point. I think for the most part, he's been in sort of a honeymoon phase as commissioner. He could do no wrong. Brian Curtis wrote about this on the ringer pretty well, just how everybody in the media loved him, but now we're starting to view him as a commissioner. And as a commissioner, not this kind of symbol for progressivism, he obviously is going to have to represent some things that kind of clash with even if he thinks he is a bit more liberal on a lot of things. He works for the owners, and ultimately he has to serve owners and make the most money for them. And I think those two things, perhaps, his viewpoint or ideology, is clashing with his

profession and his job. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that the NBA is now being pulled into a world where a lot of different arenas. Hollywood, obviously, the NFL, like a lot of different industries have already been sort of mired in it, which is the politicization of every single gesture and every single quote. It's not even information warfare. It's rhetoric warfare, where it's now you've got, like, the very thing that I think the NBA used to use as sort of a badge of honor, which is the engagement of its fans, kind of turning against the NBA a little bit, right? Where it's like, this was a situation in Hong Kong before Darryl Morey talked about it, but

Darry's one quote has now become something of, not necessarily like a purity test, but it's become a litmus test for people where they're now going to every single person and saying like, this person failed the test. They failed the test to speak up for the rights of people protesting in Hong Kong. And you've got a lot of clashing powers right now pulling in different directions in this. struggle and it's going to be, I think it's going to be a while before the NBA can unknot this situation. Yeah, and I also don't think, yes, Adam Silver has responded in multiple ways and perhaps hasn't lived up to our expectations in that regard. And Greg Popovich did address it.

But as you mentioned, like Steve Kerr kind of sides stepped up the question. And while I think that's a fair approach to want to like really assess where he is on this, I think you started to see throughout the day that everybody else was saying the same thing. Like Chris Paul, I believe, who's the president of the Players Association was asked the same thing. And he gave a similar remarks. I don't know enough about the situation to comment. Right, which is fair.

And I think it's like a good thing to step back and assess. But at the same time, it felt like that's what they were told to say. Yeah. And so they are at this point just delaying the inevitable, maybe in hopes that people will just forget

about this and stop asking. But at a certain point, guys like LeBron, who is showing up in China soon, if he's not there already, we'll have to address it. Yeah. And there are a bunch of events

have been canceled already. We don't even know the games are supposed to happen tomorrow. They could be canceled by the time you even hear this podcast. So that seems as good as any to put a pin in the China discussion, talk a little bit about basketball. As we said, the Sixers played Guangzhou yesterday in Philadelphia. Obviously, basketball came back in a big way on Twitter because the Ben Simmons three-pointer was basically the fire festival of Tuesday night.

Everybody started tweeting about it at the same time. I have mixed feelings about this. Interesting. Yeah. Because I think most people, perhaps even myself, are pretty pleased by this. Sure. He took a three-pointer at the end of a half against the team that's not in the NBA, and it was Y-opening hit.

I think that's great. He's apparently much freer with his three-pointers during practice. All the players have been like, Ben shoots him in practice, Ben shoots him in practice. I hate that. I hate the idea that this is somehow like a hang-up that he has. Not because, like, I critique him for having the hang-up, but it just gets into that murky,

like why isn't he taking them? Is he not taking them because he doesn't want to look uncool because if he bricks it, he feels like that chips away at his like facade of like graceful perfection that he has. But on the other hand,

if he doesn't shoot, everybody's just like, this guy is just three quarters of a player now. Right. I mean, I guess it was good that he stepped into it with confidence.

And although, as you mentioned, the defender was pretty much like in the pain. It looked like a real shot. Yeah. I just need. him, you know, he's just got to take those shots. He's basically Bobon now. He shoots three with the amount of space.

Why are you looking at me like that when you say that? Well, you know, it's just... They play similarly. How much... How much trolling are you doing right now? Like 50%. 75%. No, I mean, it's a good sign. It is a good sign. These games are meaningless, especially when they're not against actual NBA competition.

Most players, most starters are playing with the first half. Brett Brown is essentially like settling into his rotation. And here's your Galaxy Brain take. The real story coming out of last night's game, aside from the fan getting ejected for pro-Hong Kong demonstration, the real story coming out of last night's game was Matisse Thibel. That's your guy.

He's Kauai Leonard. Okay. Watch T.F. Out. Wow. NBA, because this dude can play defense. And I know, you know what, we don't talk about defense. Because we're all so drunk on dunks. Yeah, and three-pointers.

Ball. Well, we're not drunk on Moray Bowl anywhere, but we're really into three-pointers and layups, and we're all about efficiency. Sorry for caring about the other things. Sorry for caring about the little things in this game, like defense, like deflections, like being pesky. You could say that stopping the other team is the ultimate efficiency.

That's right. If you can't score, you can't win. No, Thibel looked incredible last night briefly. He did manage to hit some outside shots as well. That was a huge concern about him coming out of UDub. Are you sensing a theme here with a lot of the Sixers players though. It's like, oh, it's cute when they make one three-pointer because nobody expects

them to. But here's the thing is, like, this isn't, like, we're going to get to Markle Fultz, but we straight up, like, did not get to see Markele Fultz play. You know, it's, the Thiebel and Simmons stuff is just like there's this element of their game that the Sixers are essentially gambling on being able to construct. Right? Yeah. There is

though a Markle Fultz element to a lot of the things going on here, specifically Ben Simmons, where they're just like, Joel Embed is like hugging him and everyone is celebrating this three-pointer when he makes it where it's just like there's this cutesy element, like kind of permeating this entire thing. I hate the bad newsbears part about it,

because I've been down this road before, and I just think that that should be part and parcel of what Ben Simmons does. And now we've gotten to the point where this is becoming kind of cute. And it's like, oh, everybody like rushed the floor because he had a three. And it's like he's supposed to be able to do this. Right. And I guess this is what makes the Sixers and Sixers fandom kind of a thing. Like, it's really adorable that these things.

that these things happen. But it seems like the Sixers are in a place based on their roster construction and some of the big trades they try to swing last year where they want to get beyond that. And it seems like it's tough to really like divorce themselves from that fully. Does that feel right? Yeah. I think that there's always, there is like at once like there's overdog underdog complex going on where it's like you have, you know what kind of team you have.

You know what the ceiling is for the team. You've got two generational stars plus like a. newly reloaded roster. And the roster does look deeper and more logical now to me. I mean, like, honestly, you can't really tell anything based on last night's 144 to 86 win over Guangzhou, but Ben Simmons

scoring 21 points, 8, board, seven assists in 21 minutes. Nice job. Nice night at the office. Plus 40. Plus minus is real. Yeah. Anyway, I just thought, Tybal is apparently going to be one of the first wings off the bench with

Ennis for the Sixers. So it's, we're keeping an eye on his development. He could be, he could be like a huge pick for them in the first round. Yeah, those guys, the younger wing players who are of a similar type, the Zeyer Smith, the Thibbles, they're crucial because I just don't know how much you're going to want to rely on James Ennis and a Mike Scott. I was going to say it's fun when Mike Scott punches someone, perhaps not for the person being punched, but it's like he kind of represents this like toughness and edge and it's great. But as you saw in the playoffs, I just don't know how much you could rely on them. I do think there is going to be a point where you need to rely on a thigh bowl for shooting, yes,

but also if you ever wanted play a little bit smaller, if a team is going to force you to play out on the perimeter, they have all these giants, and you need thibble in order to just have the bodies in order to combat that. The other preseason game that I wanted to highlight from last night was the Thunder winning 119 104 over a Luca and Christops free Dallas Mavericks. Obviously, that does not matter at all. But the Thunder started three point cards.

and so I wanted to talk about how the thunder looked sharp. Yeah, in preseason. I know, but you know what? I think I started feeling this like last week. I think the thunder are going to be pretty good. I think my take that's forming over the past week or two is that the thunder are actually the hipster team that we're all going to love.

Because the pelicans were the one everyone expected, but they're way too mainstream at this point. They're playing a bunch of national games. The Grizzlies is a team that I personally love. You're not a hipster, though. I guess I'm just a professional. That's not the only two things you would be. It's not like you can only be a square or a so-sure or a grocer from outsiders.

What am I then? I don't know. I mean, I think that you're a more complicated kind of guy, you know? Yeah, that's true. I have a lot of layers. So your thing is that New Orleans is urban outfiters hipster. Yes. Okay.

Yes. Memphis is real weird loner hipster. Uh-huh. Like a guy who just like sits at home. You're looking at me when you say that. Just pointing out. Right, right. And that the Thunder is like punk rock hipster team.

That's the one where you actually need to know a guy to know about the show. It's like a loft party in Bushwick. This is your team. I feel like you've been wearing the Thunder hat more these days. I just, I think that watching them play a little bit last night was this is the best they could have hoped for after losing Russell Westbrook and Paul George. Yeah. Is a team where Billy Donovan actually gets to be a little bit more creative offensively because, I mean, obviously Chris Paul's going to dictate a lot of this,

but Billy Donovan gets to install maybe some different stuff than he could have because of Russell West Brick's tendencies, tendencies which I happen to love watching as a fan, but might not always make sense on the court. He starts three-point guards. He starts CP3 Dennis and Shea gulges Alexander. Shea goes off for 24 points and 26 minutes. I watched several lovely-looking pick and rolls between Paul and Adams,

especially with Paul now being, you know, with Adams now, at least having the green light to shoot threes, that becomes a more dangerous play. We got Darius Basley's sighting. Whoa. And they just looked really nice. I mean, obviously they played against Justin Jackson and Bobon. So it wasn't like exactly, you know.

Darius Finney Smith, yeah. O1 Lakers. But it was pretty, it was pretty, they looked pretty sharp for a preseason game. Yeah, I think this is some incredible Ewing theory potential. It's stunning. Because you're not even talking you and you're talking, like who is the second best guy on that team.

it's two ewings. Right. It's double ewing theory. Right. I think you hit like the big thing there. It's just they're playing a different style of basketball. You have all these ball movers in place there. And Shea, I think we got lost when the trade happened for Paul George over the summer about all these picks.

And like what a huge reboot it is for the thunder. Shea's really good. When we were talking about Anthony Davis packages, we were saying he was perhaps like the best blue chipper the Pelicans could swing for it. Now, Pelicans got a pretty good deal from the Lakers, ultimately. but I still think Shea could be the best player there. And while we'll see how long this lasts, I just think their team is just so funky and fun. And I think it's going to be like that for as long as Chris Paul is willing to just go along and get along.

Yeah, his health probably has a lot to do with it. But what do we talk about all the time when we're watching teams and we're saying, oh, you know what, though? They just need more like playmakers on the wing. They need more playmakers on their perimeter. All of our conversations about position-free basketball and unicorns and everything always tends to focus on guys like Christops, guys like towns, guys like Davis who play inside but can go outside.

But maybe position-free basketball can apply to backcourts too. Maybe you can run three point guards out there and you can see there was a one play. It was completely inconsequential, but often make Adams inbound to Paul. Paul, with his, as he is, want to do, eyes up, saw Shea on the wing, like about 30 feet down the floor, whipped a pass to him. And then Shea immediately eyes up, found Terrence Furges. It was just like an immediate kind of like, we understand how plays progress

from like an idea to execution. Because we're point cards because we see where guys are. And it's not that Russ couldn't do that, but Russ put it upon himself to be like, my job is to dribble the ball as fast as possible towards the hoop. Yeah, I also think in the front court, they have a lot of just like good passers and smart players. Gallos like quietly had a very good year last year.

It wasn't as injured as he often is. And Stephen Adams always a pretty good passer. I feel like Adams was that of, crossroads moment in his career where we were wondering whether or not the thunder have to salary dump him and maybe that happens like over the course of this season but I think for now I think you're starting to see enough from these guys where it makes some sense at the very least they're upping their trade value and I do think the thunder are an interesting candidate perhaps a patient X for this new tanking environment sure we saw last year teams were still willing to tank but then when the lottery came

all of a sudden the Pelicans were jumping like 10 spots, the Lakers getting to the top four. I wonder if the thunder are willing to lean so heavily into a tank. And I also wonder, given the way the percentages work now, if it makes sense to do so. Right. So their over-under is 32. We talked about their playoff chances a week ago,

and it was like it would have to be the 8-Ced, right? It was basically what we came down to. And that would be at the expense of some cooler teams or some teams that we think of as more ascendant. But provided they keep this team together and this team stays relatively healthy, I don't think it's out of the question. I wonder if they're too good to fail.

But talk to me a little bit more about this idea of what do you mean? Like tanking from the middle? Is that what you're kind of talking about here? Yeah, I just don't know if teams are going to be as willing to tank. Like perhaps the percentages are still good enough that if you're bad, it's better to just be bad, even though it has flattened to a certain extent. There's still better odds if you're going to be the worst.

team in the league. I just don't know if last year's lottery or this past year's lottery, if that creates a chilling effect where teams just don't want to be that bad. There really aren't many teams that are designed specifically to be a tanking team anymore. No, I don't think they're, who are they if there are any? Like the Knicks don't think that they are. Exactly. The Grizzlies, I feel like the Grizzlies are just because they've pivoted so hard to a youth movement. Yes. And they still have their draft pick in the hands of the Celtics. And so it would behoove them to be as bad as seemingly possible in order to keep that.

But other than that, I'm not really sure the Hornets, even a team that thinks that they are frisky. They've signed our guy, Terry, to just like this absurd contract. Yeah, well, the Hornets seem to be operating. It's like it's 2003. Right. Same with the Suns.

Yeah. And the Suns are probably betting on, by the way, like if you haven't noticed, we have the number one pick playing center and a burgeoning star and Booker playing on the wing. Right. So they probably have a lot more confidence in the lineup that most people do because they're not acting like a tanking team.

And I think you're right. I think that it might make for actually like a pepier regular season. I'm sure that once we get after All-Star break and a bunch of teams are like 20 games out of the playoffs, they're going to be like, we're going to shut down this guy, we're going to shut down that guy. We're going to see if we can get rid of some of our expensive contracts of veterans if maybe anybody wants them. But there's too many competent teams.

And then you got the teams like Memphis where you're like, well, we really don't know what they're going to be. Right. Yeah. I mean, I wonder, like, a team like the Kings. Like, that team has expectations to do something more. They're just, like, the numbers aren't going to work out. There's just, like, too many teams going for it.

And so, in the hipster discussion, I wonder if that helps a team like the Grizzlies. If only because the stakes are so low, we could only enjoy them as just like this fun young thing. Do you remember the first hipster team that you liked? That's a great question. I feel like the Lob City Clippers were hipster before they got Chris Paul. Before they went mainstream. Yeah. Right.

I mean, Blake Griffin... For they sold out and signed to a major label. Right. When they were still on subpop or whatever. When Blake Griffin was just dunking on people, that was like a pretty fun experience.

Yeah, I mean, I think the Quentin Richardson, Darius Miles Clippers are very hipster. There's a bunch of different iterations. The Monte Ellis Warriors were very... Were like that. I mean, the Thunder, when they were just a bunch of, like, young guys. Yeah. Like 2010, Thunder, 2011 Thunder.

Right, yeah. They were wearing the backpack. It was all a great time. That was a great time. We're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsor. When we come back, we're going to do some preseason, true or false. Today's episode of Group Chat is brought to you by Floor and Decor. Don't miss out.

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your cleaning the garage. Well, because we're like, we're like two guys with water diviners. We're trying to tell you where the gold rush is. Yeah. That's kind of I'm a mixed metaphor. But you could only get excited by watching preseason because if you see something you don't like, you can just be like it's just preseason. But we're here to try and tell you whether or not some of the stuff you're seeing is true or false,

whether you should believe your eyes. So let's start with this. I'll give you a statement, you tell me true or false. Udub Markell is back. I would say true. Fuck off. Did you watch him the other night? He's looking good.

Does he even exist outside of Twitter? It's a great question. Does Markle phones actually play outside of like, eyeball emoji, inject syringe emoji, vein emoji, husky emoji, yeah, crying Sixer fan emoji, ecstatic Kevin Clark emoji. He's trapped in YouTube.

He's basically in the Matrix. It's a black mirror episode. Yeah, exactly. I know he looks good. He does. I still have some concerns, but to start with the good stuff, like you watch him on the court

and he looks like an NBA player. He looks more confident. He is just doing things that NBA players do. Yes. And for him, that is the bar. I think he could be a contributor as soon as, like, game one. Like, he can be Evan Turner or he can be C.J. McCollum. Evan Turner currently?

I used to say that about Evan Turner a lot. I fucking love Evan Turner. But I used to, like, whenever anybody was just like, you guys drafted Evan Turner second. Yeah. I would be like, he can play some basketball. He makes basketball plays. But Bill actually always used to say that. He was like, I'm not selling my Evan Turner stock.

Yeah. He's just, he's out there making plays. I mean, it's an interesting comp because I also do think, like, the shooting is going to be essential for him to take a next step beyond that. The hitch is still there. Yeah, but I think he is making plays just with the ball in his hands. And I think that's, like, critical. He wasn't even doing that.

He has this weird thing that's always kind of bugged me where he plays almost like he just mainlined a pixie stick. What do you mean? He's just like, sugary? He's just like all over the place. He's jittery. He's like very... Markkell.

Yeah, Markell. He's just very like a wiggly dude. I don't have enough tape to even say that. Like, how much tape have you got it? him. Even when you were watching those clips of him, like the Zapruder film of him shooting at magic practice, he was doing this thing where he just like leaps all over the place.

I'm like, calm the fuck down. What are you doing? And he plays like that constantly. And it's partly why I was never like all the way in on him as a prospect. I just feel like he can't divorce himself from whatever like I eat like Popeye or what is the thing? Chick-fil-A. I eat Chick-fil-A before I go out in the court sort of dude.

Yes. But he played just like a normal, like, confident, played within himself basketball player. And I thought it was particularly interesting because he was running the pick and roll a little bit and Derek Rose would go way under and on the screen. Feel free to have it.

Yeah, Derek Rose, Fultz was on the perimeter and Rose was already basically at the basket. This is a Pistons Magic game, yeah. Yep. And Fultz just like knew how to do things. He was able to hit men when they were open. He would take a like a jump step back and just like pulled up for a jumper in the paint.

and I was like, okay, Markell, he did that one play where he stole it, and then he went back the other way and went behind his back as the defenders were trailing him. And I was like, that's cool. That's a good thing. Markelle is always going to be a chick-fil-a or the egg situation. By which I mean, everything he does off the court is magnified by the fact that he can't get it together to play on the court, whether it's physically or whatever else. So when he eats Chick-fil-A, people are like, see, this guy.

not taking it seriously. Let me tell you something. A lot of guys eat chick-fil-a. A lot of guys don't take care of their bodies when they're 20, 21 years old. They're like, I'm going to live forever. Oh, yeah. I've definitely seen in the locker room where the people, the players pay like some guy, the attendant in order to go get them fast food. Yeah. I've definitely seen like a lot of shit. I'm sure some of the guys you're talking about are really good. My first experience, I believe, in an NBA locker room was the Wizards during the Nick Young, John Wall era in the Sapal Center visiting locker room. Yeah.

And they were just like going ham on some chicken fingers. Yeah. And you know what? John Wall before every muscle and his leg exploded was the fastest NBA player I've ever seen in my life in person. Right. And listen, I am not above some chicken fingers because I was probably doing the same thing like an hour later.

And now you're like Team Samibble. You're really trying to respect yourself. I know. Although I did stop the CrossFit. So it was too much. I couldn't do it. So if you replaced it with some other kind of cultish exercise regime? I did Orange Theory the other day.

I don't know if I'm an Orange Theory guy, though. What's to deal with Orange Theory? It's like a point system, right? Like today I like crush this many. They hook you up to some sort of monitor and they're supposed to... Hard pass. Yeah. Hard pass.

I'm in the middle. Hopefully they don't intend to sponsor us, but I'm not like the biggest advocate for it. Well, it's okay to have like a... We're talking about you. We're not talking about what our listeners should do. Sure. This is about you. Right.

You just got to find your workout regime. I believe in free weights. Yeah. Yeah. If it's good enough for Rocky Belbo, it's good enough for me. I just like to put like a wagon on my back and run up like the Himalayas. Is that what you were talking about buying some chickens this week? Yes, that's right.

That's right. That's right. Our next true or false. And I know mismatch talked about this a bunch yesterday, but I wanted to get your thoughts as the Trem Lord, the Trem A Lord. Pelicans are already awesome, true or false. 100% true. Like, what a fucking viewing experience that is. watching an entire preseason game. The Pelicans Hawks game was one of my favorite sporting events that I've seen in like six months. It was sick. First of all, just all the names, we're like,

oh yeah, they drafted DeAndre Hunter. Yeah. I forgot. I don't think the Pelicans have a bad player on the roster. Like, I don't know if they have any exemplary players or like All-Stars at this point, but there's just like no bad player. Even when Etouin Moore got involved, you're like, that's exactly how Etouan Moore should be used. He was like starting playoff games at the three. Yeah. And now it's like, oh yeah, you guys have Itoan Moore coming off the bench. That's pretty good.

Even this like European big, I think it's like Nico Melly. I'm probably getting that wrong, but he was interesting. He looked thick and also like able to shoot threes. And then like Frank Jackson couldn't even get into the game at certain points. And I'm like he was a guy that they had hoped for like two years ago as a significant contributor. But obviously like the big show is Zion. Yeah. The only thing, the only mild, like, keep an eye on this is I felt like Brandon Ingram got a little lost.

Yes. And there's so much interesting shit happening in a Pelicans game. And, you know, Lonzo and Drew were such a fascinating backcourt. And there was a lot more JJ on the ball happening, like JJ being a little bit more of a playmaker. And I just felt like it's going to be really hard to, like, keep everybody involved. This kind of goes back to the whole Kerr-Durant Warriors' offense thing. and how Durant was like, you know, everything was past, pass, pass, pass, back cut, back cut.

Like, we didn't run a lot of pick and roll and we didn't run a lot of ISO until the end of the season. And then it was up to me to fix everything because everything slowed down. What happens when you do that kind of stuff is guys, if you don't play, move the ball, ball finds energy, like guys like Ingram can get lost out there.

And it's going to actually be on Ingram to be like, clap, clap, hit me, hit me with the ball. Like, I deserve the ball. And it's going to be on Gentry to not just be like, it's a democracy. You go out there. and whoever has the best shot should get it, he's going to have to design some plays to get Ingram fed there.

Yeah, and that's going to be their challenge this year. The Pelicans have been leaning into this idea that Zion is just an average rookie. We're going to treat him like that, and he really has to kind of find himself on the court, which would, in theory, allow them to lean a little bit more in Ingram, a guy who is going to be a restricted free agent next summer and is really in kind of a make-or-break season for himself. I don't know if that's going to happen.

I think this game was a pretty prime example that, like, this is the Zion show. and you're even seeing, even if the pelicans aren't putting Zion out there, he's doing all the shoe marketing. And like there's this big billboard or just like he's on this big wall right near the arena. Like this is Zion's thing and like everything is going to come off of that. Yeah. And the way that the X Laker guys deal with that will be interesting.

I thought Lanzo responded really well. Yeah. Well, Lanzo's now playing in a back row drew holiday instead of Rondo. Right. Lanzo's with the perfect partner. He's with like a guy who can take the pressure off of him if he needs to with the ball. handling, but can score pretty much like, Drew Haudet, it gets scored 20 points a game if he wants to.

Right. Yeah, and I think it goes back to, like, the hierarchy thing. I think Lanzo is the type of player, we've always said, works best within, like, being able to hide, being the fourth option or guy who move the ball will make right plays, and now he's hitting, like, step back three-pointers or just open three-pointers, which is an incredible sign for him. Ingram is more of a featured piece. I think he needs to be a go-to-scorer.

He was doing a little bit where he was getting into the teeth of defense and was scoring above guys with his length, which is going to be essential for his career. But I do think he's going to reach a point and perhaps he would be better served on another team because of this where he really needs to be fed. He really needs to be... This is your Simmons thing. Yes, exactly. There are certain guys, even if they're not the best players in the league, they only really

work unless they're the focal point. The context needs to be built with him as the first guy in mind. But Zion was that guy. And as you saw, even off of activity, he was just incredible. He was playing essentially, like, offensive free safety. I don't know. I think it's going to take half a season for people to figure out how to defend him, if they ever do. Because him kind of like lingering out on the perimeter, but with an eye, like, if you step to me, it's just going to be your funeral.

Yeah. He's just, he's so aggressive and I think he's so smart that he was able to like work off cuts in like fine ways to get involved. Or just like even off of pick and roll, being able to find guys. I think what's going to end up happening in Paulo Getty wrote a. about this on the ringer right after that game is just he needs to figure out the shooting. Yes. Right. Good God, the shot is horrific.

And like, teams are just going to follow him to get him to the line. Now, he is also a rhino and thus will be able to probably finish through contact a lot of the time. Right. But that has to happen because he's probably not going to make the free throw. Right. So it's basically like, if teams have to like calculate, like, how many fouls are we willing to waste on guys who might be out there who might be valuable to us.

I don't know if people are going to be fouling out trying to hack. a Zion. But it's something to keep an eye on. The other thing that's just, like, we alluded to, is just the pelicans sneaky going, like, 11 guys deep now. Yeah, and, I mean, JJ is an interesting case study in that. Like, what is the best usage of him? Because I

do think the pelicans are going to get into a situation where they need more shooting on the floor. The Lonzo Drew backcourt is good if Lonzo is hitting shots. Drew, not necessarily a marksman for three, but like a good three-point shooter when you need him to. But otherwise, like,

Ingram is shaky. Zion, as we mentioned, is shaky. Derek Favors, if they want to continue playing him alongside Zion, not the guy you want to rely on there. So it's going to have to come from somewhere. They have all these guys, but they really need to figure out the combination. And I do wonder if someone like JJ, because he's more of a specialist, is able to, you're able to fit him in more than someone like Ingram who has amazing potential. To be fair, I mean, Ingram scored 19. So it's not like he was, he led the Pelicans in scoring, actually. So I shouldn't make it sound like he vanished for the game.

I'm talking about like the feel of him being in the offense out there. And, you know, this is going to be kind of a running thing. Because I would imagine that Ingram's numbers are going to be better than Zions, but Zion's going to get all the highlights. Yeah. If you're showing like a three-minute package or a two-minute package of the Pelicans, you're not going to show a lot of Brandon Ingram. Oh, nice 17-footer.

Oh, great follow here. It's going to be Zion. Yeah. I just, I wonder what this team is going to look like at the end of the season. I think it's great that they have so many guys. It's just like at a certain point, you really just need to pick a path. And everything is going to be based around what's best for Zion. And I wonder, like, if they are successful.

I'm a little dubious that they'll be in the thick of the playoff race. I think they'll be a fine team. But the thing is, is that, like, they obviously picked up Redick favors and kept Drew because they are hedging against the idea, like, what if we're good? Yeah, no, totally. And I do think that it's important to maintain relevance in that market. I mean, they had an open practice where the gym was full. and someone showed a photo of like two or three years before that,

which I was probably at. And you were the only person in the picture? There was like, there's like 10 people in this thing. But it's interesting. They're kind of, they're just like the thunder. They're on a team like right in the middle where, but I do wonder like which path they're going to pick.

Another team that we are kind of trying to figure out and trying to figure out what's the tanking path here, or is there a tanking path as Knicks? Oh yeah. Go ahead. I hate this team. Okay, I was going to ask, Are the Knicks the real hipster too?

Now, the Knicks, what's the opposite of being, like, into something? They're like the Steve Miller band. Yes. Yeah. Yes, right. Nobody actually wants to go and admit that they're watching it. Yeah. Holy shit, Marcus Morris is already on one.

Yeah. Just not only gets ejected for just... Gunning and then, yeah, just like, complete, like, black hole on offense and then gets ejected. There was one play. He was out on the perimeter, and, like, there was a scramble for the ball. He lost it or something. And then immediately...

jacks it from like way out from three and there was 21 seconds on the shot clock as like this guy this guy is going to completely ruin everything they won they beat washington uh 10499 in this game that we're talking about r j barrett let's talk a little bit by him so he was the big takeaway 40 minutes in a preseason game shout out fizz it's not great you don't want to see that uh everyone is talking about kind of his line he made two threes which i think were we're left pretty wide open for him, and they probably will continue to be, because that's kind of the book on him at this point. He played well in certain aspects. I thought it was interesting that he would work off of Julius Randall when Julius Randall had the ball, and he would find cuts. He was basically doing what Zion

was doing. He was just like finding a way to be useful, which is great. It's great to see. But ultimately, as I watched him and Julius kind of trade off being the primary ball handler, I was like, these are the same guy. Yeah. It's just this bigger ball handler or not that good of a shooter who really needs to play downhill. And I just don't know how that...

RJ and Randall are the same guy. Essentially. There's a lot of like... It's a scatming race. I know. I'm actually a Julius Randall optimist. I think that was a really good signing to just like if you have reps,

just like allow him to find himself and maybe he could be a little bit more. I just don't know if you really want to play them together all the time though. I know this is silly because they're in different conferences and they have different objectives this season. but let's do me a favor off the top of your head.

Give me the ranking of these four teams. Okay. Oklahoma City, the New York Knicks, the Atlanta Hawks, the New Orleans Pelicans. Like where they'll finish the season? Just their records. Like who will have the best to the worst record out of those teams? Thunder, Pelicans, Hawks, Knicks.

You think the Hawks will be better than next? Yes, definitely. I mean, I agree with you. Yeah. A hawks will be frisky, but they still feel like a year away. A lot of their guys are super young And like, Trey Young was like, yeah, he nutmeged JJ Reddick at a certain point

To the point. They also gave up 130 points. Yeah. Yeah. And he also like took one of those like I just like pulled this three pointer out of my back pocket And just like hoisted it. Yeah. And it just like, I think it airballed or hit the backboard and I was like, what are you doing?

I believe in Trey. Yeah, no. He's past the point where we're like, are we sure about Trey? Yeah. He could have a little bit of a sophomore slum. But I think I believe in him. He still, I mean, yeah, he came on late last season. but there is now that shred of doubt where it's like, well,

could he just, like, what was the outlier? Was the second half of the season or his first half? And I think he's a good enough past. This is one of your things. Yeah. You hate second half of the season fake news. I like sample sizes. Well, because I remember really early on in our,

and what I hope is a lifelong relationship. You were like, there was that Portland team that went like 20 and 7 or whatever in their last 27 games, and everybody was like, next year of Portland. Yeah. so good. And you're like, they're going to be trash. Yeah, they were good.

But I liked, I think it was also like a Miami thing once. You were like that? Also, I was a big fan of Utah, which actually went the other way. They were good in the second half. And you thought they were going to be good the next season. Yeah, I've been down the Utah is a sleeping giant waiting to happen, but it just never happened. They are actually just a sleeping average human.

I got to say, I hesitate to say this, because I know that Utah fans are very passionate. Get them the hell out of my finals predictions. I'm not the biggest optimist at that point. Yes, I agree with you. It's just like, they'll be good. Okay. Which is nice. True or false.

He or a playoff team and we're about to see point bam. The bam stuff is good. I saw this same clip that you did and I was glad that you put it in here. This is small sample size. I am not sure if he did this more than once, but I was just like, let's have this. Let's do point bam. Because it was pretty sick. Right.

And so the play that we're talking about. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, he was basically. bringing the ball up the court. He sees Derek Jones Jr., I believe, in the corner, and Dejante Murray is basically, he goes to stop Bam because he thinks he's the point guard, I guess, loses track of Derek Jones Jr., who is his guy. Bam calls for Jones Jr. to cut. Like, actually tells him where to go, finds him perfectly in stride, and Jones gets an easy layup. Yeah.

It was pretty incredible. This team's interesting. Yeah. More interesting than I thought they were going to be. They had a nice little game. And I think, again, another team where you're like, surprisingly deep, you know? Yes.

And even like a guy like Tyler Hero was a guy who started to pick up Steam in Summer League to the point where Charks almost wrote about him and I'm upset that we didn't end up getting to it because, like, he could have foretold this, but he had another good game. And I think he's a guy who could really help him. They're just deep with a lot of interesting guys,

similar to the Thunder, where it's just like, there's a lot of talent on this team. They just really need to figure out how to deploy it. Yeah, Dragach, Shwaters, Butler, Olinic, and Bam is sort of their starting five. But then you have to imagine that Justice will be

playing some point justice. He might come off the bench. It depends. Like him and Dragach are pretty much right there. Justice Winslow, Tyler Hero, Derek Jones Jr., Myers-Leonard, James Johnson. So eight guys there who can play? Yeah. I mean... In a team that is essentially

like, I think, ready made to be competitive every night? Yeah, I'm a little concerned that Myers-Leonard is still starting. Yeah. But at the same time, like, Spoh has a way to really kind of bring out the best of these guys. The key is just that they have a lot of these science experiments. Like, their team at certain points just looks like the island of Dr. Monroe, where it's less like, Derek Jones Jr. is a wing who actually plays like a center.

I thought you said the island of Dr. Monroe. And I was imagining a Dr. Moreau remake about Greg Monroe. Sure. Or it's just like Greg Monroe hanging out on an island. You think we can get that greenlit? I mean, they love IP in Hollywood right now. Right. So if we're just like, it's a fresh new take on Dr. Moreau.

Mm-hmm. The Ringer Films Division. Would you direct every episode, Fukunaga style? I would hope so. Yeah. We'll bake that into the deal. Yeah. We'll have to hold out for about 30 years, but I think we can make it happen.

If you promised me a 10-minute tracking shot. Oh, yeah. That's classic you, the oneer. You know me. Let's get two more before we get out here. True or False, Michael Porter, Jr. could swing the West. This is my take. He scored nine points, man.

Congratulations. He does look a little stiff, I have to say. I think he just looked a little stiff. slow. Yeah. He also didn't know. But that might be his game. His game might be a little bit more like loping and graceful, but not like, it's hyper athletic.

Is a gazelle? Whatever. He just looked like he didn't know where to go. Gazzles are pretty fast. I don't know if I have much experience. Jack check that, Isaac, Gisels? I'm going to, I'm just, you know what's going to help me here? Google.

Are gazelles fast? They can reach speeds up to 60 miles per hour. So bad animal. What about like a kangaroo? They kind of hop? Does he doesn't look like a kangaroo? He doesn't play like a kangaroo. What is he then?

Michael Porter Jr. Should we do a... Coming off of major back surgery? Should we do a segment where we just make anamorphs out of NBA players? How significant is this if he's 15 points a game guy for them? Could be the thing that decides the NBA title, my friend. This is my take. This is something you really believe.

Yeah. I just think that they have enough to swing a package for Bradley Beale or whoever to get it in there. But you will be sacral. So you think this is more important as... setting up a trade because Michael Porter Jr. then sort of frees up the Harris or Murray as a trade piece thing. Right. Or he just plays well and just raises their ceiling. I think there's a lot of ways that he can like completely alter the landscapes in the West. Yeah, I just think that the nuggets have guys they can swing a trade for, but they would really be altering who they are. I think you could have a, with Porter playing well, you would have a glut of assets where you could probably have both. Last one. Cam Reddish, true or false. I don't have anything to say about camera.

Oh, did I... Did you put that in? I put it in because I was sick of all the slander that Cam Reddish was getting. Oh, Isaac. All summer. A surprise one from Isaac. He looked fine. He looked great.

He looked awesome. And I am sick of all the people online. When did you become like a Cam Reddish stand? This is like in the beginning of the Duke season last year. Do you like Duke? No, I don't. But I was like Camerich isn't going to get any shine. Because of Zion.

Because of Zion and because of Barrett. You know what? That happened in the game, too, because the pelicans destroyed the haunts. And Cam Reddish looked good. What was his line? 4-4-7, 11 points in 15 minutes. Oh. And he also said after the game that he was pain free from the core injury that he had all last season.

So, Isaac says it's true that Cam Reddish is Cam Reddish, the best possible version of himself. Core is strong. Mm-hmm. You think he's doing CrossFit? It's all about the core. I don't know. I mean, like, it's flipping tires probably. He's probably not eating Chick-fil-A. I hope not.

Yeah. They might actually be a sponsor in Atlanta. We will be back next Wednesday. It'll be our last group chat before the beginning of the regular season. Excited for it? Sure. Yeah. For Isaac, for Justin, I'm Chris.

This has been group chat. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.