The Ringer NBA Show - Ben Stiller on Lifelong Knicks Fandom and 'Severance'! | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

Movie star and filmmaker Ben Stiller joined Logan, Howard, and Raja to discuss all things Knicks and his decorated film career. How does Ben feel about the Knicks season thus far, and how far will the team go in the playoffs (2:49)? Has he ever gotten into it with opposing team players from the sidelines (19:44)? Where did Ben’s Knicks fandom come from (25:32)? The guys also get into 'Severance' conspiracy theories (35:50), Ben tells a great story about working with and getting to know Robert De Niro (51:05), and he also stays for the mailbag! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available.Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja Bell Producer/Audio: Clifford Augustin Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and John Richter Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bobbin, Real one. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Howard Beck and the motherfucking cut. The ball cliff on the boards. Victoria on the video. Ben Cruz is here, so you know it's a big fucking deal. We also got Keith, I think, is in here. The resident Knicks fan from the social media team.

So, like, we're locked in. And the reason why we're locked in is because, you know, we have a very special guest. So much so that Raja has been really very, he came on the call really excited. But before we get to Raja's excitement, Let's drop the resume. You know this guy from Empire of the Sun, you know, from Happy Gilmore, the cable guy.

There's something about Mary Meet the Parrots, Dodgeball, Night of the Museum. I don't know if he's severed right now. You also know him as an occasional video vixen and Siza videos. Ben, motherfucking Stiller is in the building. Ben, how are you doing, buddy? I was hoping I get the motherfucking. Oh, you got it. You aren't you, brother.

You aren't. Welcome to the club. An alleged long-time listener to the podcast, Ben Stiller is in the building. This is great. This is crazy. This is crazy because, you know, as you guys know, you're maybe my favorite podcast of all the podcasts in the world. I really, I listen to you guys religiously. And it's always weird when you are all of a sudden part of something that you're, you know, a fan of.

And you don't want to mess it up because I really love listening. listening to it. So this will be the one episode I'll have trouble listening to because I'm on it. But I'm such a fan of you guys. And Raja, you know, it's great to meet you. Howard, we know each other. Logan, we've never actually met in person, but I feel like we kind of know each other because we've talked a bit and we've had, right? We've had some back and forth. Yeah. It's like, go ahead. Can I just know. Can I just say, I mean, you can't mess anything up, right? Like, I mean, I can't speak for those two, but I just come on here and I'm shooting the shit. So like the level of fandom that I have is hard to explain over the, you know, over the pod.

I would just say this. My wife who rarely misses an opportunity to go get her hair and stuff done was going to miss that and was like really fighting me to sit right off camera over here today on the pod. I was like, that's a very rare thing. I was like, no, you know, we're not going to do that. I'm so glad you didn't. I would have made me so nervous. as if I'm not nervous enough. But no, it's great.

It's great to be with you guys. Oh, man. We're excited to have you, buddy. You know what? Let's get to the bat. This is a basketball pod, but we're going to get to the shits at some point. Let's just talk basketball for like 20 minutes and then we'll get to like all the fucking nerdy-ass Ben Stiller questions that we all have that we all have written down. And Roger has gotten his self ready for.

Let's just start off with the obvious, man. Like you would Cliff had a little bit of a back and forth. in before the pod about what the Knicks are going to be. How are you feeling about this team? Like, I see your blue skies and your exes and all these things. There's always an internal optimism from you and your excitement level of this team, but we've seen what they have done with the record against good teams. How do you feel? Where are you at right now? Where's your optimism level? Are you scared to death or are you excited as hell? Well, look, I'm always going to be the optimistic fan because I'm a true fan of the team.

You know, I have this back and forth in my son a lot who's, he's 19. And so like a lot of his formative years were like with the really, really bad Knicks, you know. And so he just has this internal thing where he's always expecting it to go bad, you know. And I'm, I, you know, I've been a Nick fan for so long that to get to this point where there actually are possibilities, it's I have to, I have to look at the positive side of it. you know, but I'm a realist, you know, I know our record against the, you know, the teams that we're going to be facing. But I love this team. And I think, you look, last night, right, you had a kick-ass game against Sacramento. It was actually, I think, look, I think the Jalen Brunson thing has to, you know, work in some way in a positive way for the Knicks to figure out how to, you know,

figure out their offense in some other way than just through him all the time. And it was exciting to see OG step up and you know what I mean to see like a team game happening because they have to do that so yeah I'm a little bit yes you know do do I have blind confidence no but I also love our team I love the will to win I love the chemistry and it's going to be a tough it's going to be a tough right and it always comes down to injuries right into being healthy and you know we finally got Mitch back and who knows what's going to happen with the JB thing but um you know I'm I'm I'm I'm realistically optimistic. You were at that Lakers game, though, right?

The Lakers' next game when it happened, did your heart sink? I sure was. And when that happened, what was your reaction when Jalen Brunson just went down? And is that cool? I just was watching Rick Brunson, who immediately looked to the crowd to find Jalen's mom. And I saw the look of concern on their face. And then I saw him go off. And, you know, I knew it was not good.

It looks, you know, look, the fact we're talking about, like, two to four weeks is much better than it could have been. But it was really, it was awful. It was awful, you know, as a Nick fan. Because the game was so exciting. And the Knicks were actually doing something. And then there was a point in the fourth quarter when I was, I knew they were like up by five or they were up by 10. And I was like, they're either going to, it's either, they're either going to, Lakers are either going to cut it to five or the Knicks are going to go up by another five.

And this is going to be the swing. And it was exactly the wrong way. And that's when it turned. I knew, and it was just, I never felt like they had the game fully, you know, it's just one of those games. But then when he went out, it was just sort of like, you know, it was the worst possible situation. That was that, that was that six minute mark, I think, right around there where, yeah, it was because they were doing such a good job. They felt like they, while it wasn't put away, like they were kind of controlling it. The game was the way they wanted it. I have a question for you

as a, like the heyday of the Nick fan of kind of our generationish was, would have been those you know, Patrick Ewan type of teams were known for just physicality and being brutal and just, you know, everything that a blue collar team kind of represents. Does the Nick fan, does the Ben Stiller Nick fan, would you appreciate a team more that's kind of cut from that cloth, like more of like last year's team that underachieved ultimately maybe? Or a team that's kind of more exciting offensively that gets up and down and scores, I only asked because I was on those sons teams and Mike DeAnne was always about if you're not going to win the chip, let's be really exciting. So just curious. Right. I mean, I love those Knicks teams and the toughness. I think, you know, obviously our team is more, it feels like last year, yeah, we had more

defensive, right, identity, I guess. And, you know, when we lost Isaiah, when we lost, even Dante, you know, just like his grit, it was like he was there for one year, but he was such a Nick. You know, he just made such an impression in that that playoff shot. I was at the guard when he hit that shot against the Sixers. And, you know, there was a toughness there. Look, I love watching Cat play because I feel like I didn't know what was going to happen when this guy came. I really didn't know what his personality was.

And just from the get go, you know, he's like, this is Cap's team. We're in. We're all in. He was like such a team player. I see him giving his all out there. Yeah, he and J.B. are not the strongest defensively, but they're just incredible, you know, They have incredible grit and desire. And I think he sometimes doesn't get enough credit for that, cat.

And I see him. I see him, like, giving his all every game. So, yeah, you know, I love the identity of this team in terms of just, I feel like they really care. They're also, like, accessible guys who, you know, like Josh Hart, like, you know, he'll make a joke. Like, last night he said, you know, why was your defense better? You know, J.B. wasn't there. Like, they're able to joke with each other, you know? Yeah, yeah.

I love that. I love that. It just feels like they really like each other. But, you know, this is a different team. This is their own team. And they are very offensively minded. But we did, you know, it was a tough. I think Hardinstein was a tough,

or Hardinstein was a tough loss last year, you know. Yeah. How is that been, Ben, just in a sense of like you guys went through, as you alluded to, there were some very lean years there for the Knicks. And like, they're fun again, they're relevant again. You've said it. Like there's so much to love about this team. And last year, like, part of the fun of rooting for them, it seemed like, was like every time a guy goes down doesn't matter, right?

They just keep grinding on. And like, they just finally just ran out of bodies and gas against the Pacers. Yeah. This team is similar but different. They might end up, I hate to say it, but the postseason may go very similarly to last year to get that high, high. And then the expectations of the franchise of you guys in the fan base, the city is like, okay, now we got to take the next step. now we've got to go take down the Celtics. We're going to go get McHill Bridges to add to OG and Anobie.

We're going to have guys to answer Tatum and Brown and all this. But it's feeling like, you know, partially Brunson out, partially just the way the season's gone, the defense not being as good. How are you calibrating, I guess, knowing that like. Yeah. Yeah. How am I calibrating for like what the reality of this team is? I guess, yes. Because as we know, reality bites sometimes.

It's really bad. Nice one. Yeah, well, I don't know if it's going to bite that bad. I feel like they, you know, you can't underestimate this team. I think you have to see where they're at when the playoffs start and, you know, see how they are health-wise. And yeah, it's going to be an uphill battle for sure. But, you know, I don't know.

I just feel like they really, you know, they all really want it. I think the depth in the bench is not what it was. But it's not as maybe consistent. But, you know, like if campaign comes out, and he starts hitting his threes, you know, it's like there's nothing like that boost when he's doing that. It doesn't happen all the time. I think, again, I think hopefully a blessing in disguise with J.B. being out because Mikail is going to have to step up more. And I think him being more aggressive in OG. I love OG. I think he's just such a special player.

So, yeah, I mean, look, who knows what's going to happen is what I'm saying. But I think, you know, I give us a chance. You know, that's a really, it's an interesting point. Like not being a Nick fan, I didn't really look at it through that lens. But like, I make the case for a lot of teams and the silver lining that could be that injury you're talking about, Ben. And if I'm being honest, like watching them play, that Laker game was, I thought it kind of summed up kind of perfectly what they could be. Even though Kat wasn't playing great, they were defending. You were getting your usual contribution from a lot of other places and you were able to kind of keep.

the game in your wheelhouse. And that only gets you kind of to a certain level. You tap out at your ability to beat better teams. And what they're going to need is other players in playoff runs to be able to kind of take some of the load offensively. And that's easier said than done when Jalen's there. Like, you know, it's not a Jalen issue. He's just so good.

And teams, you know, we're all human being. So we look at our best player, our alpha and we say, hey, man, we're going to play off of that. And minus that sometimes, it'll allow people to grow into spaces that could be really complimentary, you know, in playoff runs. So that's, that's kind of interesting because Mikhail can do that. Like, you've seen him do that on other teams. You just got to find the platform and kind of the space for him to figure it out with the Knicks. Yeah, I mean, with Kat and OG and Mikhail, those guys can all score, you know, they're right. They're

legitimate scores. It just, you know, it just, it's interesting. Like when when Kat first came to the Knicks, I don't know, maybe I'm making this up, but I remember there's like a couple games when like when jb was out i think and cat had a big game and like they had they hadn't quite yet figured out you know how to play together and they're still i think figuring that out too but you know he has the ability you know i mean look that run he was earlier when he first came that he was going like you know scoring like 40 points a game and he was having huge games so like it's not like we don't have that ability it's just we have to figure it out i think ben me and you have talked about this offline but i want to bring this conversation

on to the podcast and give flowers to Rajabelle, who I know is one of your favorite players that you have watched. You have been waxing poetic on this. I believe your quote was, he should have been a Nick. Right. Like he was a perfect thing. Right. That is high praise.

Yeah. No doubt. Thank you. With Raja being number one on the list obviously, who are the guys that you're like, who's your all time? Damn, he should have been a Nick, Nick? What are the ones that should have been there? Right. And we could talk. I have a other question after this that we could do. So let's break it up and let's break it up into like star stars and then like, obviously Rod's number one on all of them. But let's break up to star stars and then the role guys that should have been like, he should have been a Nick. What the fuck? Why didn't we get him? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, you know, I always, first of all, what do you guys ever talk about, just to talk about one of my favorite Knicks about?

in the day that nobody ever talks about Mike Glenn. Do you remember Mike Glenn, Stinger, played on the Hawks? Sorry. Oh, my God. I'm only like 12. I feel like Roger, you would have known. He was, anyway, he played in the 80s. He was like an amazing, he's a guy who played on the Knicks for a while.

Then he played on the Hawks for a long time, and he had an amazing three-point shot. And I feel like he would have done well on this Knicks team anyway. But I mean, like someone like Charles Barkley, you know, I don't know. How did you like, I mean, what did you, what was your take on Barclay, Rasha? Oh, no, Chuck was, Chuck would have been phenomenal in the, in a Knicks, in a Knicks uniform style of play, like, ability to, to just, you know, captivate an audience. I just think for the, for the market in general and Madison Square, which is, I know we talk about it, you probably are a little bit immune to it because you're there all the time,

but even NBA players that are playing on big stages, there's nothing like Madison Square guard. I mean, there's just like a primetime MSG game. There's no energy like it. I mean, staples, wherever else, it doesn't matter. So yeah, Chuck would be one of those dudes. I don't know. I don't want to hijack your segment. I'm going to think about mine because there's some names that would have been great in Nick uniforms. He's at the top of the list. See, like a guy. Yeah, give me a tag in the thing about it. But yeah, I like Chuck there. I always wanted to play for the Knicks. I just, I kind of got to it a little late. in my career when I worked out for them.

And it just, it just didn't, it didn't materialize. But my, you know, my wife's from Long Island. So, so I got familial, like, you know, they're all Knicks fans. And then when you touch, touch the, you touch that floor at MSG, even for warmups. And the music's pumping and you get to see the people coursing through there. I mean, that's a, you're going down in the elevator and that rickety thing. You think you're getting stuck in it. you might see a rat running through that bad boy like it's there's nothing like it's funny because

most of the games i've ever seen in my life have been in madison square guard so it's like actually interesting and weird for me to go see a game like even like going to the to the crypto or whatever that's what's called not the crypto right i hear that new york i refuse to call it what's what's what's crypto now it's staples what is the staples say it's no it's crypto my bad It's so weird. But I thought there was actually a really great energy there, you know, that I didn't remember because I didn't go to a lot of Lakers games when I lived in. I lived in L.A. for like 20 years. And so I was living in L.A. during that whole late 90s, Knicks run and all that.

But I thought there was actually good energy there. But it's weird to, yeah, to actually go to different places. I saw the game, saw them play at the Hawks in Atlanta. And there's nothing like that, that garden energy, I think when even like a regular season game, no, I'm just, you know, if it's a good game, it's like, it just goes crazy. But like the playoffs, forget it. Yeah. You know who would have been a good Nick?

KG would have been a good Nick. Ooh. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good. I don't know. I'm just playing around.

Did you remember, like, the rumors of like Michael Jordan becoming a Nick or like using little nicks as leverage and being like, ah, baby. Did you ever, who was a guy, did you talk yourself into Mike? I don't remember the, I was like two years old when he did that. But like, I don't remember that. I wasn't that, no, I wasn't that aware of it. Okay. I remember seeing Michael Jordan play though.

I mean, I saw Jordan play a few times. I saw Kobe play a few times. And, you know, you and Kobe, I mean, famously, you can be. It's my guy. We only bring it up about once every three weeks on the five. It's all good. It was only to be. It was exciting to watch my MJ.

Yeah. No, he was crazy. He was crazy. Did I, I've told you guys my MJ, right? Like,

where. The preseason story? Oh, God, Jesus. I had my grandma in the stands talking shit. Like, I was just out there cooking.

I had like 21. And I don't know. I don't know. I just thought that that was life with the old MJ. And we played him no more than two weeks later in Washington. And he had me on the bench by like two minutes into the first quarter with three fouls. You let you know about it too with the fowls? No, no, no, no, he didn't say anything to me.

He was just, it was just an introduction into like, hey, man, that says what we do in the preseason. Don't make the mistake of thinking that that's exactly who I am, right? He turned it up to another level that I just had no answer for. Yeah. What is it? Are you thinking that, though, as a player when you're playing someone like that? Are you thinking like, this is Michael Jordan?

Or are you thinking like, I don't give a shit. I'm like, you know, I'm Roger Bell. Yeah, that's a good question. And I was, we had come off those finals, Ben. So like, I was kind of feeling myself in a way that I hadn't been months prior just coming out of the CBA. But at the end of the day, like MJ was on a different pedestal for me than just about everybody else. So there was a level of deference and just like, hey, man, this is going to be bananas. But it's crazy because as soon as the ball goes in the air, that's all out the window.

Like, it was kind of the same with Kobe. I was a huge fan of Kobe. Like, I'm, I mean, I'm a basketball fan first and foremost. But as soon as that thing goes in the air, you just kind of forget where you are and you just get into like survival mode. Yeah. I was looking up your stats, right? You shot 46% from three in the playoffs career. Yeah, I was blessed to play with some really good players.

Look, so this is a bigger conversation is like taking it back to the Knicks we were talking about. Yeah. In the playoffs, if you play with good players and you're blessed to play with the Brunson and a cat, you get shots. good looks at the basket because the game plan is to stop them. But you have to knock them down. Yeah, you got to lock it down. Knock them down. Ben, we're used to seeing, we're so used to seeing Spike get into it with opponents,

with everybody. Have you had any of those kind of back and forth or are you just kind of like, all right? I'm like saying this already because I'm like so embarrassed. Like I lose myself sometimes at these games. And Spike is obviously Spike. So Spike is the, you know, Michael Jordan of fans, right? He's like, I mean, I love like going to games and getting, you know, getting a high five from Spike.

Like, what's an exciting moment, you know, that's like, it's so much fun. And the way he is with the players, the way is with the refs, you know, he has the license to do that. I sometimes just lose myself in the, you know, in the, like, I just get too caught up. It's really like crazy. Like I get so caught up in it at a game. It's one thing at home when you're like yelling at the TV or whatever. But when you're in a game and it is the garden energy too. But sometimes I'll like, yeah, I'll go like a little too far for sure.

What was the most out of body experience you had in that way? Yeah. Like what was the one where you were like, what the fuck did I just do? Oh shit. I don't know. I mean, I had like a thing. I started yelling at Kelly Ubrey in the player. Oh, yes.

Yes. And like I'm saying stuff that I like why am I saying? Like I shouldn't be saying this like you know like I'm dissing these guys who are like, you know, these guys I'm fans. They're amazing, you know, professional basketball place. But I'm so frustrated. And then yeah, I did like do a tweet where I said Kelly Hubey. But it was like in character.

It's like a dodge ball or something like. And then and then at the next game he came up to me and like before the ball was inbound. said like I'm an average shows no way am i purple cobras so he had a really good sense of humor about but like yeah i mean definitely or sometimes like i will like yell at the rest and then i'll see you know i'll see like on tv or something like or i'll see like a replay or something or i see my and i go like you can't do that like you really have to you really have to hold it back because you know it's ridiculous but it's so you get so into it i'm trying to think of other i mean no i mean It's amazing to me how sometimes players during the games, though, when you're sitting

courts like can be so, can joke around and can be so relaxed within the game, you know? I was, I mean, I remember that also last season, like Nick Baton with a one point was there. Like, it was like 15 seconds left in the game. It was like a crazy physical game. And he, like, turned to me and he says, like, this is crazy, man. It's like a 90s game or something here. And I was like, like, you're in the game. You're talking.

I guess that's just like a way of dealing. with you know right just sort of like you're in your zone and it's part of the whole experience yeah you that becomes like I was going to say when you were telling your stories which are fantastic like I think most of us kind of enjoy that like we you know like a little back and forth you know we we we play basketball from the time you're whatever age and like part of what makes the NBA special along with the financials and the TV and it is the fan it's the environment so as long as it's not like crossing the line which some you know some people will do inevitably but the the the the passionate fan that's going to give you a little back and forth especially you know if you guys can can

get to the point where you know it's it's just going to stay there within the arena like i always enjoyed it i'd love getting back and forth with fans yeah well it definitely is like there's no experience like sitting i think in a close in an NBA game like there's no other sports experience like that right where you can be that that that close to the action i think it's like for me like the most enjoyable thing. Like the thing that I love more than anything is going to a, go to a Knicks game. How serious,

though, are you about doing that, right? Like, because I'd be, you clearly have hell of projects, but I see you at Knicks games, considering you have,

like, seven projects that you're working on and in your court side. Like, are you like Jack Nicholson with the shit where it's in your contract that, like, I need to, I need to make this game. Like,

even during the Oscars, you over here tweaked about it. Like, what is the obsession of meaning? Like, like I have to be there. What do you do? It's just a natural thing of like, you know, as the last few years, like five years ago,

six, seven years ago, it probably wouldn't have been as much of a thing because you knew what the games were going to be. But now that every game means something, I just started to make a part of my schedule, you know? I just started to like literally like I put it in my calendar. Like there's a Knicks game on this night. And then if they're, because if not that I'm going to go to all the games, but I do watch every game. And I don't like if I schedule a dinner or something like.

that during a Knicks game and I'll get mad because then I'll start to not enjoy the dinner because I feel like I should be watching the game, you know. But then, yeah, going to the games, whenever I have a chance to go to a game, I don't, but I don't like, I can't, if you're shooting something, you can't stop shooting, you know, because you have like 200 people there that you can't just say like, oh, I mean, I think back in the day Woody Allen used to do that, whatever, stopped shooting at like 5 o'clock or I think Spike, though, even when Spike's working, he's not there at the games. But if there's any way that you can work something around that, then, you know, I definitely will do it. Are you watching it while you're shooting now? Like, are you watching,

like, if you're doing severance in the season, right, and there's a Knicks game going on, is, are you like, do you got like one eye on, you know, the severance and then you're like, you got the phone light, yo, what's up there? They're in Portland night. I got to see what the score is. Quietly, yes. That is happening. There is an iPad on set for sure. And it's known. It's known amongst the crew or whatever people know. And it's, it's, it's, everybody's okay with it. How did your Knicks fandom start? Like, was this, were your, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, on your own, like, where, like, what's, where's the, uh, where's the, uh, where's the origin point?

Like, specific player, specific team, specific season. Yeah. I mean, it goes way back. It goes back to the 70s. It goes back to my dad, um, who didn't have season tickets, but had friends who had season tickets. There were these two guys. It's a guy named Freddie Klein and a guy named Stanisovsky who like owned the Carnegie Delhi and were sort of like classic New York, you know,

New York Jewish Nick fan guys. You know what I mean? Like Delhi, go to the games, knew all the refs. They had ath row behind the Knicks basket. And so sometimes we would go and sit there with them and they would like yell at the refs. They knew all the refs

by name and they knew the players. They took me down to courtside. This was like maybe like when I was eight years old in 1973. So, you know, I remember being introduced to Phil Jackson and people like that. And then since then I just started going. As a teenager, I'd go with my dad sometimes or with my friends. And it just was part of, you know, became big Bernard King fan in that era. And then it just always was a part of my life.

So, you know, and then I definitely discons. connected for a while when I lived in LA. Actually, in that time, those late 90s times, I was not as into it on a regular basis. And then when I moved back to New York in 2010, it was like one of the best things about moving back here was like, I get to go to Nick Games and started taking my son, who was little at the time. And obviously the 2010 till like whatever, 2021 wasn't a great time. Who would I mean we know the faces that are at a lot of the games and stuff But is there anybody in your industry that like really knows who like you sit and have a conversation you're like yeah this guy

He's a hoop head. He really gets it Well, I mean the guys who go to the games you know the Nick games like Chris Rock you know Chris is really into it You know all those like sort of like and I guess the guys you see it like Tracy Morgan's hilarious I don't. You guys ever cross paths? I mean, you know, what the fuck is he doing?

Eddie Murphy's impression of him on the SNL was like amazing. Phenomenal. Yeah. I mean, there's guys who like have been like long time Nick fans who've been there forever who'd know like Matthew Modine, people like that who are like serious, you know, just years. And you know, John Tartura who's on Severance has a season ticket, has two season tickets. the next he's been going forever um and uh yeah i mean i'm trying to think of other like you know like celeb people but it's i mean people in new york who are fans like are really you know

they're really into it and you know they take it very seriously i mean i think i've gotten more into it in the last like five years like start i never used to listen to podcasts about it stuff and i started listening to you guys and um you know some of the other ones but sometimes the other one It's frustrating because when you hear podcasts talk about the Nix and they're not, they don't, you know, they're not Knicks fans. It's really hard. I take it so personally. Oh, my God. I can't imagine Nix fans taking it personally when people in my industry say something critical about them.

That's never happened to me in my 20 years in New York, Ben. Wait. On that subject of fandoms, though, do you guys look at, do New Yorkers look at like Denzel Washington and it's like, yo, man, you one of us? How the hell are you a Lakers fan? What the hell is going on? You're supposed to be from Money Earned in Mount Vernon, and you over here at Staples talk about Go Lakers. Like, do you guys look at him?

Like, what the hell? No, because he's in cell. He's allowed to do whatever he wants. He came to a Nick game recently. He came with Spike to a Nick game. Okay. Like a few weeks ago. Yeah.

I mean, no, like, I don't hold it. Like, everybody has the, you know, look, like Jalen Brunson's an Eagles fan, right? Or whatever. So, you know, it's like you have your teams. Okay. So I'm not going to hold against him. Okay.

Then what's your own basketball resume, aside from the scene in the long came Polly? I have that written down, Howard. Like that was, I have that written down. I love that. That's one of the best basketball scenes ever. Still, by the way, still gross as fuck. I replayed it and I was like, oh, my God.

Like the, the, the slow-mo, the sound effects, the just the, oh, it just, it still hit. It's, it's, it still hits. I still, I still remember it. I remember it. That, that wasn't like, that wasn't like a, like a stunt special effects thing. That was his actual chest, right? That actor, that actor was cast purely for his hairy. Oh, my God.

And Phil Hoffman was so, I mean, he was so funny in that scene. He was just amazing. Yeah, my basketball resume. is short. Like me, it was basically, yeah, I, you know, I went to a small private school on the Upper West Side called Calhoun, and there were maybe like 60 kids in our whole, like, I don't know, senior class maybe or something like that. But I tried out for the basketball team, and there were like maybe 16 kids who tried out for the basketball team, and like 12 got on, and I was one of the four that didn't make it.

Of the 16 kids that. But I would go, like, play. I love to play, though. And I'd play pickup games. And, you know, I'd go play the Y on Sundays. My dad would take me. And so, like, I always love playing. But then my kids, it's, my kids ended up going to the same high school I went to.

And my son played, uh, on the seventh and eighth grade or the seventh grade team, the seventh and eighth grade, uh, basketball team with Carmelo's son, Kayam. Oh, wow. So they played, yeah, so they played on the same team together because he went there. And then that was before Kyan. Now I saw him at a game a few weeks ago. He's like, he's like six, what, like six, seven or something? I don't know.

He's a big kid. But he was like four years ago or five, he was like, you know, he was not. He was great. But anyway, and there's my son didn't keep playing basketball, but he did. And he had one game where he hit four three pointers. And so that was his, and then he retired. He said, he said, take that dad. He left while he was on top.

Yeah, Kyan's a bad boy. Like he, we played against him a lot when our kids were young, like in the little travel scene. And he was, I mean, to your point, you wouldn't have thought. I mean, you knew Carmelo was his dad. So he was going to grow at some point. But at the time, you were like, whatever. Right. And then he had a pretty pretty big glow up over the last four or five years.

me he's tough yeah which is great it was fun because mellow would come to all the games and you know just uh as a dad and um you know there's nothing like that i mean i know roger because you your kids like you know there's nothing like watching your kid play right because you just you just wanted to go well you just want it to go well so badly it's almost hard to watch yeah yeah for sure right no doubt like that's the most anxiety i've ever had is sitting in the stands to watch in one of my children play. Yeah. It's just a thing with kids.

You know, you just want your kids to do well. And you can't, you know, you have to let them go through their process. No doubt. All right. You'll learn Logan's, man. Is your one grows. I know. I know.

It's, it's been a blast to just see that. I'm really living right here. I'm getting pointers from Raj. I've been getting, he doesn't know this. But like, I'm like how Steve Kerr was with like Brad Stevens and like secretly taking notes and like, side out of bounds. some Raj's philosophies on being a dad and stuff. You know, I'm just like, just like, oh, he did that. Okay, I'm going to, I'm going to figure that out.

Yeah, it's, I can't wait. He's so young now. So I'm just, he's just, he just barely just, hasn't even crawl yet. So, like, I'm just loving him right now. He's big as hell, but, you know, that's all I can do right now. It's such a cliche, but like that period of time goes by so quickly, right? I know, even so fast right now, like, it's crazy. We're just taking him to the hospital.

I didn't know what the hell I was doing. Still don't, but like, you know, it's crazy to even get to this point to where, you know, you're so delusional out of the hospital. And now you're just like, okay, we have a bit of a routine now and you're sleeping. It's pretty cool. No, it is crazy. I think that thing of like when you leave the hospital with your kid, like all of a sudden you're on your own, you're just like, okay. They don't give you no.

They're just like, yo, bye. Yeah. See you. Like, where's the user manual? Like, where's the, like, there's nothing. You'll be okay. Instructions. Because in the hospital, everything is so.

controlled and they're feeding they're doing this and then all of a sudden it's like all right just go it's crazy it's so jarring you know for for me honest to god for me i think that was the moment in my life i've been with my wife for a long time but that was when i realized like she was in charge because i wasn't going to be leaving there i didn't know what the fuck to do we the whole right home we were like you're like hyperventilated just yeah really but when we got home she was like she she went right into like all right i need you to do this i need you do that and we're didn't do that. And I was like, we're like, yeah, okay, sounds like a plan. Yeah, you got it. Only, only, um, decision that I had was that I played too short on the way home. Just, you know,

get them right. You know, and get them some isms. You know what I'm saying? Just like, get them some, like, some little ism on the way home. That's, that was my contribution to the cause. All right. Let's get to the shits, man. Enough next talk. Let's, let's just like, let's get a little loopy here. Let's talk, let's talk about Ben's career. But first off, I want to ask severance, which we all watch. And the question that I have for you is, obviously, you guys are awash with fan theories. I know because I'm on Reddit and I subscribe to those conspiracy theories and I see them and I go up and what is the, the best and worst fan theory that you love? And what is, and how much of them, which one has a symbol of truth to it?

That you're like, oh, this is actually true. They're on to something. well it's hard because there's so many different ideas that people have and obviously I don't want to tell people what what's right or wrong you know what I mean because then it'll take the fun out of watching it right no no it won't no we still love those those those those those those those video those camera scenes of just water for 30 seconds you know it'll be fine you could give it up a little bit um Logan suddenly a cinematography critic here I'm locked in. I'm locked in. Ben, though. You know, I have to say that for me is a little bit, and I'm like guilty of this, but like for so many years making comedies as a director, you know, you have to like put

in from an audience and they have to, you know, you test it, right, to see where they're laughing, where they're not laughing. You know, back in the eight, like they still do it, but like score cards, you know, like what would you rate the movie, good, excellent, whatever. And studio movies go through that whole thing. And then when I started working not in comedy, as much. It was really freeing to not have to do that, to not have to, you know, make sure something paced up and was like, you know, a laugh every 30 seconds or whatever. And you could

just do shots of water and things like that. So it's kind of like me rebelling. Shots of mountain ranges. It's one episode, one episode. But, you know, I mean, I think some people have gotten close. it's it's for us yeah for us to ultimately like you know I want the show to work and I know Dan Erickson who created it and everybody who works on wants to work on an emotional level you know like the characters and like the relationships or the characters I feel like are the most important thing and then all the questions about like what the numbers mean and what's looming up to and is there you know there there's like I know there I've seen some like AI theories and things like that you know

which I don't want to say they're not right, but they're not, you know, it's not AI. On the official pod. They're not dead. They're not dead. It's like like with Lost, which you haven't seen incredibly. I can't believe you said this on your podcast with Adam Scott the other day. You've never seen Lost. One of my favorite shows.

I know. I'm not like I haven't watched like a lot of television over the year. I mean, I've watched some things and I've loved, but like I never watched Lost and I know it was great. It's just like there's a lot of shows. a lot of episodes and a lot of seasons. And we do get compared to it a lot. So it's kind of, I feel good that I haven't watched it. Well, and Dan, who you mentioned the writer, sorry, Erickson. Yeah, Dan Erickson, yeah. He's, I think he's noted, right? Like, he was a huge

lost fan and has actually, like, there are some illusions in severance to loss. Like, he's slipped in a few things, which I think our, our friends on the Prestige TV pod have, have picked up on. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I mean, it's just like the amount of, you know, of analysis and, And in that way, like, I feel like we all bring what we bring to it. And sometimes we talk about this stuff and sometimes we don't. But that's what's been fun about working on the show with Dan is like he comes from, you know, he's younger than I am. He has a different generation. He comes from a different place.

He has watched different stuff. I have my sort of, you know, library of things that are in my head. And it's been fun to just come together with him and just sort of like what we've made together, I think, is something that we wouldn't have done if we, you know, weren't working with each other. So that's been fun, you know. Yeah, that's true. I'm always, I'm always fascinated. I hear, am I listened to a couple of pods? And I hear a lot of people talk about that comedy versus more like, like drama genre,

especially coming from a comedic background probably. And that always fascinates me, right? Because I didn't realize how demanding it is trying to get the laugh, if you will. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I never really kind of put that, I didn't put two and two together with that. But I would, I mean, I don't have a. Yeah, Roger, I would say. It's like literally, it's such a simple thing.

It's like somebody comes to a basketball game. They want the player to put the ball in the basket. It's like you go to a comedy, you want to laugh. And it's like a very binary thing. And that's what that's the tough thing is like if you're not performing, if you're not getting right, if you're not making people laugh, then, then, you know, then they're not, you know, happy. So when you say something's a comedy, that's what's to me, by the way, that's great

because I love comedies and you got to deliver. And that's why I think it's a higher bar in a way to do comedy. Because drama, you can, you know, do shots of mountains or whatever things. I'm going to, you know, creatively express myself. No, but which is, you know, subjective. But laughing is kind of like either you're laughing or you're not laughing. But then, right? And then, but different people laugh at different things.

So figuring out what's going to make other people laugh can be challenging. Yeah, no, I just find that so fascinating. It's absolutely right. I just find it. Hey, it just blew me away. I mean, I don't really have a question because I'm just such a fan, but like, I mean, along came Polly. I don't know, Logan, you were too, you were too young for like when that came out in the movie theaters. I swear to, I swear to God on everything I love.

I've never laughed as hard in a movie theater again in my life. Like, it was the wildest thing. And the cool part, do you guys film that in Miami, right? Polly, we know. No, I'm sorry, something about Mary. I apologize. Something about Mary was all. Yeah, it was South Beach, Miami.

Yeah, it was great. Yeah. You guys used weird little thing. You guys, the driving range that you guys were using in that movie was, I, correct me if I'm wrong, you might not remember. But it looked like the one in Hollywood, Florida. It's one that my dad and I used to go to. You were hitting out into like a little lake out there. It was the craziest thing.

Sure. Maybe, yeah. I'd never, I mean, I'd never really work there before. I had the best time. And also because the Farrelly brothers who directed that movie, just, you know, were like they had no rules about how they did anything. So they just would do stuff to make, make people laugh. And they were doing practical jokes on the set that now you would get thrown in jail for.

Wait, Ben, Ben, I just want to say, first of all, fuck you, Raja, because something about Mary was the first Benziller movie that I actually watched. Oh, I just thought you were, I just thought you were too long. I mean, I was sick. I was. I was when I was still watching that shit. So that leads to my question, which I had on this on my on my doc. What was it like filming the scene where your character zips up as you film me in the bathroom and like, tell me about that day. Tell me about that day.

What was that day like? Please tell me about the day when. I cannot believe you. Yes. Well, that was okay. I mean, it was like I felt like we were doing like a Marks Brothers movie or something. It was just so over the top. There's like this set.

We got a bleeder. Yeah. And it was just like a guy walks by the wind. It was like a like a vaudeville routine or something. And I thought, okay, this is just like so over the top. And then we kept on, they had this giant like prop of the of my pants with the zipper with the Franks and the beans and the zipper. You know, like this like this big like oversized prop because sometimes we'd make them oversized so they get the camera. And I was looking at it and I said to the director like, there's no.

no way. You're never going to shoot that thing. That's like disgusting. That's ridiculous. There's no way you can. And he's like, yeah, yeah, we probably won't use it. We're not going to use it. I don't think we're use it. And then of course, they see the movie. And the reason why it's so funny, I think, is because they wait so long to cut. Like, the scene goes on and on and on. And then very late in the scene, they cut to that close up. So it was, yeah, the more lonely day of shooting was the, the scene where, you know, I have to go in the bathroom and, you know, all. Or the date with Mary and, you know, try to, you know, you know, I'm talking about. That was that, I mean, that might have been the single, that shot is the laugh I'm talking about.

That's what I'm talking about. That's the shot, right? Like, when I was like, I think I jumped over railing or something. It was the wild. Bro, I laughed so hard. And I was just obsessed with, you're talking about this stuff on my ear, right? No. Yeah, no.

No, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the zipper scene where you. And every man related to it instantly, no matter how, how that, I'm talking about that scene. Well, the ear scene where I, you know, she comes over for the date. That one, I was talking. Yeah. Okay. That one I was obsessed with like why I wouldn't be able to feel it on my ear.

That was my, I had long discussions with the director, like, did, like, did my character have an accident when I was young and, like, I lost all sensitivity on my earlobes? Do we need to set up the fact that at some point I lost like I injured my ear so that I feel stuff because I couldn't understand. He was like it doesn't matter. It just doesn't. Even though like the physics of the physics of how did it get there? But like I don't, you don't want to think about it. At a certain point you just don't even want to think about it. So I'm sorry, Rajah even brought this up.

Oh my God. That's great. All right. Your kids are now, I think, both in their 20s, right? They're slightly old to the mind, right? We've established. My son's almost 20. Yeah.

My daughter's going to be 23. At what point did they see some of these scenes or some of your movies or the ones where you cringed as they're, like, as they're growing up, there's like, you know, not at the museum, whatever, fine. But like there's certain stuff where you probably had to wait. I'm curious how much they were interested in all this in the first place. But also, like, when did they finally see scenes that Raja has? described that one that one I don't think they that I still don't think my kids have

seen that one I have something about Mary at least they haven't told me about and I'm not like running to like hey let's screen this thing together you know what I mean I went to I had I went to the premiere with my parents I remember my parents were at the premiere and I remember sitting at the premiere and my parents thinking oh my God like this is I didn't think about this so that was and they were like behind me and I was like and I remember just watching it like not wanting to turn around. Yeah, my kids, it's weird. Like, they're so aware of all this stuff, you know, obviously, but it's kind of like there's certain movies that we have, you know, watched together.

I think my daughter saw Tropic Thunder for the first time, like a couple years ago, you know, and that was, you know, it was fun. It's fun for like, you know, if they come to something, they want to see it. But you don't want to like, try and, like, say, hey, check out this or check that out. And like, the song got married, I'm just like, at some point, they'll experience. that maybe or maybe they won't, which would be okay, too. You talked about your parents just a little bit there. Sorry, how cool was it? I mean, how often did you work with your dad?

I remember one specifically, Zulander. Like, how cool was that? Yeah. I mean, I grew up. My parents were actors. You know, I grew up around. They were a comedy team. I actually had just been working on this documentary about them that's about to come out.

And so, like, my whole life was just being around. their world in New York show business in that period of time. And they, you know, it was fun to work with them when I started to do movies. I'm glad I was able to do it. Sometimes it's complicated when you have, you know, relationships with parents who are like, you know, we're both in the same business. And my dad was doing Seinfeld and kind of had this sort of like new chapter of his career when I was doing movies.

So that was really great because, you know, I think he was. just a really, he was a really funny guy. My mom was really funny, but also like very sort of interested, I think, in more, kind of like more like where I go, like more serious stuff also and wrote and read a lot. And, you know, anytime I could work with them, it was really fun. But it was also, they were helping me a lot when I was growing up. I mean, you talk about like NEPO babies and all that. Like, I can imagine a world where like not being, like, I wouldn't probably have gone into what I do if I wasn't around it all the time. And so. and wanted to be a part of it.

I did love movies as a kid. My parents were doing nightclub stand-up comedy. And I thought, okay, well, I want to be in movies. But then when I started to try to do my own stuff, I would say, hey, dad, could you be in this tape I'm doing on my mom? Like, they were really supportive. And it was just part of, it was just part of our lives. And that's kind of part of what the movies about that I've been working on is that

just sort of like, it wasn't like sort of like, hey, I'm going to help you out. It was just sort of like, this is the world that we live in. And I imagine it like if, you know, like with your kids, if, you know, in sports, like you're going to try to like impart what you know to them and help them, right, in whatever way. And they have to figure it out themselves. And like obviously it's a greater question you could, you know, talk about. But for me, working with my parents or them being a part of what I did was it was like a really natural thing. And I was really grateful that we had that, you know, that experience, those experiences together. Yeah.

That's very cool. My dad, not that anyone asked, but I'll just share it. Like my dad was a, my dad was a college wide receiver. He didn't get to play in the pros. And so he became a PE coach. And then he was an assistant athletic director in Miami. But his world was sports. He played every sport.

I went to every field. And although it wasn't on the professional level, you just described it, right? Like, I was there. I was loving what he was loving. I was watching his love for it and loving it and developing my own love, right? and that's just, that's our family business to some degree. So like our kids, even though you don't push them there, like they just see what you love, right?

And they're like, well, that's pretty cool. And they could love it if they want. Yeah, they make that choice for themselves that they want to do it. I know I made that choice for myself. I saw, and my kids, my daughter is out there, you know, starting work as an actor and went to drama school. But she just like made a choice at a certain point that she wants to do that. And same thing with my son.

And you got, you know, I want to be supportive. of that. But I think it's also like, yeah, growing up around it, if you see something that you're drawn to, I think that's a good thing. Sometimes the flip side is like you're not around as much, you know, when you're working and you're so focused on that. But also I think your kids experienced that because I saw that with my parents that they were so focused on their work, but they also, you know, they loved us and everything. But that was sort of like what they were modeling was that commitment to the work too. I'm looking right now, like speaking of, I guess I wouldn't say father figures, with someone I played your father in a movie.

I'm thinking about Robert De Niro and how much of a method actor he can be. And I'm wondering, like, what was it like to be alongside that? And what is your best story from him? I'm just working alongside. I mean, you know, I was lucky in that and meet the parents because De Niro, you know, was so intimidating as a presence. And my character had to be intimidated by him.

So it wasn't really like I had to do that much. And he was really nice, but I think he also understood that that dynamic was there. So he was always sort of, I think, like, kind of like whenever he could like lean into like sort of allowing me to be intimidated, he would. We, he's the sweet. We've become friends over the years, you know, which is just surreal to me because he's one of my favorite actors. but he um you know he has an intensity about him i mean even you know like even now i saw him recently at the s nl 50th um thing and you know he gets really you know he's really upset by what's going on with trump in the in the country and everything like when he gets intense and like it's like

you're like literally in a scene from goodfellas you know what i mean like you like it's real it's very real and um that's what i think is so fascinating about him as an actor is that he has both that that super scary intensity and he's also incredibly sweet and kind too and so you know that flip side um but i do remember once we were in the car doing a scene like we're driving together and then he got he was like we they'd stop the we shoot the scene and then they cut the camera and then we had to drive the camera back around the car back around to where we started the scene so we'd just be sitting in the car together and it was like and it was supposed to be, you know, awkward and uncomfortable in the scene. And then it was like probably

more awkward and uncomfortable on the drive back to the beginning of the scene. And then he started telling me about like a real estate person that he felt had, that I guess something had happened. And he got started getting upset with this person who had like done something wrong. And I heard him like go and I was like, oh my God, this is like the intense De Niro, right, thing. And I was and it was just like, wow, that's like. And and and then he was like, yeah, but you know, whatever. And so I don't know, there's nothing like when you're in the, with somebody who's like one of your acting idols and they're just sort of like, you know, being who they are.

And for me, it was very, it was kind of cool because I felt like he, I felt like he was kind of like opening up to me a little bit. And like we were actually like talking like two people. I don't know. This is pretty cool. Were you like, oh shit, that's Robert De Niro being Robert Niro as. Yeah, exactly. It's like, that's where it comes.

It was my life. Yes, exactly. And he, but like, it was just sort of like, but in like a. real way where it's like, oh, this is how he channels this into being those characters on screen, you know? Can you still get starstruck at this stage? Like, is there anybody who you still, you walk in a room with and go like, holy fuck, I'm in a room with fill in the blank? I mean, I get starstruck by athletes for sure, right? I mean, there's something about, you know, the athletes who you look up to. I don't know how you guys feel about it because you, you know,

you are an athlete, Roger, but you, Howard, you write about. I don't know, like, what, you know, Logan, what are you, like, how do you guys look at? I'm curious, because for me, that's musicians and athletes, right? People who create music that, like, affects you on this deep emotional level, like someone like Elton John or something like that for me. You know, like, I haven't met Kendrick Lamar. I'm huge. We were talking about Kendrick Lamar the other day.

Like, I'm huge fan of his. I would be starstruck meeting him, you know. I think it's honestly, man, at least for me, I can speak for, I don't want to speak for Howard, but I think it's just more of a suppression than anything, right? Like, we just, we, because we're, we see these people in a place where we have to a job. You know what I mean? So like, we have to focus on a job and a certain thing. So, like, for me, at least when I see someone that I've always admired or, and I've seen a lot of people, you usually don't, like, notice it until you get home and you're like, what the fuck was

tonight? That was crazy. Right. But in the moment, you're like, oh, shit, that's such and such and such, for show, right? But, like, I have to get something done. You know what I mean? And I think it's more suppression than anything, right? Like, I've had the opportunity to, like, cover Steph on a regular basis for the last, like, seven years, right? And he's like this, he's like this global star. I remember there was this one time where I was, I think I was walking out with either Steph or KD, like walking out into the court. And I, there was this jarring reminder of who these people actually are, right? right? Because you're on a, you're with them on a day to day. I'm sure Raj and Howard have dealt with this where you're walking with a person. And then you start hearing like loud like screams and stuff. And you're like, what the hell is that? Because like your human instinct is, is something going wrong. And then you're like, oh, no, I'm just with like Michael Jackson right now. Like I'm just standing next to that type of figure. Right. And you don't, it's, that part is jarring. But for the most part, when you're around these people, at least I'm suppressing it because you have a job to do. And then you look,

back and you're like, damn, I was in this place at this time during this moment. So it's a bit, it's a little different as someone that covers a lead. What do you think, Howard? I've gotten kind of numb to it, to be honest. It's not even suppressing it anymore. Like, there's very few athletes who could walk in. He's also Howard motherfucking back. So like, it's, there's that. No, I'm just like, dude, when you start your career covering the NBA, covering Shaq and Kobe, like everything after that feels like, honestly, it kind of just numbs you out to everything else. And so whether it's LeBron or Steph or whoever else, it's not that I'm not impressed with like how incredible they are. It's just the celebrity factor does not, does not come into play for me

anymore. There are some exceptions. I never did get to meet and I wish I had. I never got to meet the great Bill Russell. And I was in a room with him a few times like at the NBA finals and other events. but like he's such a presence that there was it. It's not even like intimidating. It's more just like this is this this is royalty, man. Like this is. And so I did not want to impose on him in any way by walking up to say, hi, Mr. Russell, Howard Beck from wherever I was working at the time.

I just never did it. And I wish I had. But he's one of those ones. He just has this presence, this aura about him. But aside from him, like listen, man, you guys know. Like I grew up on the 80s Niners. If I walk into a room of Joe Montana's in there, I will probably turn back into a 15 year old and be like all weird and like goofy.

I really want to see that because Howard be over here like, I don't care. I'm not fuck all these athletes. I ain't tripping off of them. I really want to see him kind of like, Raj, don't you kind of want to see a fan boy out just a little bit, bro? Oh, yeah. I like to see Howard get uncomfortable. But I have the inverse of what Ben just described,

which has been like you're saying like it's the athletes you still kind of have on that pedestal. It's not athletes for me. It is actors, musicians, other people who's worked. Like, again, I'm wearing my R.E.M. shirt today. But if I walk in a room and Michael Stipe is there, I am not going to be able to even function or speak coherently. I would love to meet Stipe. But like, I don't, I'd embarrass myself.

So that's where it still hits for me. And with athletes, it's just like, eh, whatever. I've seen these guys before. Yeah. I'm kind of like that with, I mean, with basketball, with male athletes, I'm fine. I would be a fan. Like female athletes, Megan Rapino. I've like

front of this show yeah no doubt but but you joke with me all the time like I would fan out like um obviously Ben and and and actors and actresses like not even not even a question but but you know football players basketball players I guess it I guess it is what you have access to right because I've had a lot of access to football and basketball like I'd fan out over like you know I got a chance with Steve um Nash to meet a lot of world class soccer players you know just kind of tagging

along being his friend at different stuff And those dudes get me freaked out a little bit. But yeah, basketball football and stuff like that, I'm good. But this would be, Ben, I'm sorry. Like, I don't know. This was a big one for me, man. Like, this was. Not done yet, Roger.

We're not done. No, I know. I'm just reiterating this. This is a big deal. No, real quick. That is an interesting thing. No. World quick.

But it's an interesting thing, though, to me, because I guess what's interesting to me when I meet an athlete that I'm a fan of is just, or, you know, it's like the insight to how you do what you do because I guess I as as journalists you guys you know you have to come at it from a certain place I always come at as a fan from and maybe this is also my dad because my dad was like a super generous sweet loving funny guy and he would he never he grew up super poor uh during the depression and I don't think he ever got over the fact that like he like was able to like you know, just live in a nice place and never worry about having food. You know, he really had that deep in him.

And he loved going to best. We go to the Knicks games. He loved going to games. But he was never a guy that was going to get down on players, you know, or like yell things of players. And I think I kind of, I kind of come from the same place as him, which is like, because it's not my job to talk about them or to analyze them. just the fact that these guys are here at this level. Like we take it for granted. Anytime you see one of those celebrity games on the All-Star game, whatever,

you are like so quickly reminded of how, like, what normal people look like playing basketball, right? You know what I mean? Like what people who are even, or like even guys at like a pickup game in a gym, that's why I think Yokic is so fascinating because he doesn't look like this guy who's like the best, right? One of the best ever. he just looks like a guy at the Y who like would be annoying at the Y and you're getting out but like he's doing it with the best in the world and when you see normal people play another you go oh yeah this is like it's so like we get so used to that I appreciate that so much

you know I guess I just appreciate at that level that it's hard for me to like go after guys like personally I can get frustrated but I also feel like I'm just fascinated with how you do it how you're able to lock in and like what it takes to be where you're at and and I guess that's more just like my sort of like as a fan of other people, musicians or athletes. It's like I'm, I'm just, it's not what I do. So I'm really curious about how they're able to do it. And when it comes down to it, a lot of it is just like just natural ability. And then it's mindset. And it seems to me that to be able to be a clutch player, to be able to shoot a free throw in front of 10,000 people. You know, that's like a, yes, it comes from repetition. And everybody I've ever talked to is like,

you, we've been doing this since we were little, but not everybody can still do it at that level. Yeah, no, you know what's interesting, it's about that. I mean, it's just the, I mean, I'm the absolute opposite of that, right? Like, in terms of viewing what you guys do, like, I, you know, took a drama class. My drama was like, in college was like, hey, you're pretty good at that. Like, you know, like, I never thought I was going to be an actor, but there was one moment, like, out of the sons where, you know, I had an agent and, and they brought me a script. And they were like, hey, do you want to try to do this? And I'm like, yeah, man, what the fuck?

Like, let's do it. And as soon as I had to read in front of like a camera, like, oh, I can't do this. There's not even a chance. Like, not even a chance. Like there's nothing in me. They could pull this off. And so like it's, it's just the reverse of that, right? Just fascinated by, you know, this is, this is what I do.

It's natural. Like we train to do it. Like there is an element of like, you could train as much as you want and you still might not be able to do it. But for the most part, you've got this natural ability and then you've sharpened your tools to a point where you could pull some of this off. But it's, I mean, it's the same thing for you guys, right? Like, it's the same exact thing. Like, not everyone can turn on a camera and talk into it and look, look natural doing that. Whether you sharpen your tools or not, there's just no natural to it. Yeah. I mean, it takes, it takes, you know, time and, like,

getting used to it. I definitely wasn't great when I started. And I would get, nervous and auditioning. I was not really good at auditioning. And even like when I, I think over the years, I felt more and more comfortable in front of the camera. But even still, it's like hard when you jump in on something, you know, like for like if you're doing a part where it's just like one thing and you're just coming in for a day, it's much harder than if you're starring in a movie and you're, and you've had the lead up and you had rehearsal and you've then kind of start working and you have the first day or two where you're kind of getting the kinks at. And then it just becomes sort of like, you know, just front of the mill because you're, you're, you're, you know,

used to it. Yeah, that's, dude, I'm sorry. You guys cut me off if you want, but that's so fascinating because, like, with an NBA player, right, like, let's say a really, a good one that is drafted into an organization. There's a level of stability. There's a level of opportunity that you're going to get to make the mistakes to kind of work your way through it. There's investment from the club. And so there's this safe space where you can kind of develop. And weirdly, like, I, we had auditions. Like I had an audition to get in the NBA. So like you'd go somewhere for a day and you'd go there with 30 other dudes and they'd throw a ball out. And they, you knew you were only getting one person out of that getting called back.

Right. And so like those were terrifying. Like the first couple of times you do that, like you just have to go to a place where you're, I mean, you just got to find this little crevice of your brain where you're like, you know, I cannot think about what's at stake here because if I do, I won't make a shot all day. Right. So you just get in fight or flight mode as quick as you can. And you just try to take it back to basic instinct.

But it's very similar to the audition process. I have to imagine where you're like, hey, man, good luck with this. You got about 30 minutes to show us you're good enough. I mean, yeah. And you weren't drafted, right? Yeah, I wasn't drafted. No, this was like free agency stuff. That's like a whole other thing too.

Yeah. I mean, that's where you're, yeah, it is your instinct. You're young. I mean, I also think it's when you're young and you don't know any better. And you're just thinking this is what I want to do. That's what I was going off of, right? I just wasn't even thinking about it. I was just like, well, I wasn't even thinking that it's not going to work out or what's my plan B.

I was just like, no, I just want to try to do this and I'm just going to go forward. Ben, I'm curious about actually, this brings up something I've been wondering about just in shifting to directing. Like, acting just looks like, and I know from the outside, everything looks very different. Our jobs, my job always seems glamorous to people in ways that I try to explain is not. And then I've given up trying to explain why it's actually very. A lot of lonely nights by yourself with the computer talking shit to you that you can't do something. Exactly. But acting just looks like so much fun and especially the kinds of movies that you've done in your career, like all these comedies and just like everything's just like just like just joyous.

And directing, I don't, this is where I'm like talking out of my ass because I don't know shit about how this all works. But that seems like the work part of it. And the acting seems like the fun part. And I know I'm ridiculously oversimplifying. But what do you find fulfilling or enjoyable in a different way about directing versus acting? Like, I know you're still, that you're not done with that. But this is, you know, Escape Danamora and Severance. And like, this is this period of your career is really defined by the directing, it seems like.

So is it a different level of enjoyment and satisfaction than being an actor and comedian all those years? Yeah. For me, since I was 10 years old, I wanted to be a director. director since I was like had a super eight camera and went to see you know beside an adventure or planet the apes or whatever it was like these were the movies I was like I want to do that I want to make movies and then it sort of morphed into acting and directing and when I was a teenager and anyway I I always love directing I always read articles about directors and the book of the making of jaws when it came out I was just fascinated with behind the scenes.

I had subscription to American cinematographer as a kid. And I was just fascinated with a technical aspect of it all. And, you know, it's a full experience when you're directing something because, you know, you're taking it from the beginning all the way through to the end. And when, and through editing, music, all of it. And when you're acting, you just go in there and you do have, if it's a comedy, yeah, you want to have fun. You want to try to find the life in it.

and, you know, whatever the situation, all of that is great. And working with great directors is really exciting as an actor, too. But for me, to be behind the camera, working with great actors, working with a great crew, and coming up with what this thing is going to be, and then putting it together sort of brick by brick, which, you know, it takes a long time. And figuring that out and kind of trying to figure out how to make something that you really feel connected to. and feels like an expression of something you want to see, that to me is like the best experience.

And I love going to work every day when I'm doing that because I'm grateful I'm not an actor those days, usually, because the actors have to, you know, all of a sudden, the camera's right in front of your face and, you know, you've got to do an emotional scene or you have to be scared or you have to, whatever it is. And that's so hard to do. And I have so much more of an appreciation for actors now

that I've been spending more time directing and not acting. But I think it's like, like one of the best things you can do creatively. And I feel really lucky that I get to do it, honestly. Cliff, our guy Cliff, resident Sixers fan, told me he has a question for you. And then we might do a couple of mailback questions for you and get you out of here. Cliff, sixers are, I feel, you know, come on. And thank you, Cliff.

You know, Cliff is still mad that you guys keep fucking infiltrating Wells Fargo Center. What the fuck? I mean, that's more of a Philly problem than anything. but yeah exactly and ben i'm sorry to let you know but the pissons will probably knock y'all out in the first one of them yeah k hey jell and d'allin d'all jane i sayerre they're they coming they come in they definitely they definitely have some momentum for sure but but question here dodgeball came out over 20 years ago right and it's such like a cultural phenomenon you're fucking a ross is hell bad he didn't go ahead yeah yeah it's such a cultural phenomenon and you can recite a million lines from

the movie and I wanted to know like after you guys were done you know shooting every scene recording whatever editing all that the whole process right did you know that that was going to be that like do actors know that all right we got one like this is this is definitely going to be like the film that you know takes us for a while um and no I mean it was a movie about dodgeball nobody thought we this is it you know I guarantee you nobody was thinking of me mentioning it 20 years later. No, it was, we thought it was funny. I mean, you know, you make something, you put in front of an audience, like I was saying, you do the test screening, right? So you hear the laughs. So we knew that like, oh, there were laughs here and it seemed fun. And then it came out.

And when it came out, people went to see it. And it was such a silly idea. I remember just thinking like, oh, this is like, I don't know, I think we all did it because we knew it was, it's kind of ridiculous, but it just seemed like it would be really fun and funny. The original title of the movie was underdogs, because it was really like the underdog story. And then it ended up being called Dodgeball. But no, I don't think we had any

idea it would be something that, I mean, it's so crazy that people still talk about it. And I feel like, it's great. You know what I mean? I feel so lucky that there's like something there that we did that people still resonate with. Bro, what did you do to get into that character?

Like you were... White Goodman? That was White. How the fuck did you get into White Goodman? Like, what did you do? What did you watch? I hit the spray tan, you know? Wow. I mean, you know, I watched, I think I watched like, there was some like, you know, tennis,

I don't know, it was like Jimmy Conner, like celebration, like, you know, point victory celebrations that White Goodman would have sometimes. I got deep into and then, you know, tried to go lift a couple of weights for a little. little white Goodman and his little singlet. Wait, how did you, before we get the questions, how did you prepare for Zoolander,

which is my favorite movie ever of yours? Oh, thanks, man. What was the, what was the, did you, how did you practice Blue Steel? Well, Zoolander was like a long process because we did it as,

we did it as a short at the, and the VH1, back in the day, they had the VH1 fashion awards. And so we did it as like a short, like behind the, scenes. There was like a little short about a male model, short about a photographer. Actually, Joe Rogan was the photographer. Andy Dick was like a publicist. It was like these little

shorts. And then the Zoolander one was the was the male model. And so that, you know, was something we did again, that we did it a second year. And then it took like two or three years to get the script developed. It was actually like a really long road to getting that thing made. But like the actual like character just came from, I, Drake Sather, my friend wrote the sketch, the original sketch and I said, what should I do? And he said, like, well, maybe just do like a, like, you're like Marilyn Monroe or something. And so it was just like, it was just like, coming up with something. And the look was sort of like the look that I would like do in the mirror when, you know, I just trying to make my hair look good. And it's like,

can you, can you? Can you know what still do blue still right now? Can you do it if you can. Can you get some? Hell yeah. All right. All right. All right. Let's go. Get out of here. that made the podcast. Wait a minute. Can I say something before this is over? No, no, no. We have mailbag questions for you.

Okay. Okay. But I'd like to say one thing before the mailbag. Is that all right? Raja, I sincerely feel this. And you guys, Howard, Logan, you guys are awesome. But Raja, I do feel like you have a potential career doing color commentary on NBA games. and I really think you have like such a specific style and you know way with words and voice and everything like I feel like you should be doing that I that's very high praise sir I appreciate that um I've never really I've tried it one time Ben like and I got a chance to do it when I was with the bobcats and I wasn't playing and I actually kind of enjoyed it like there's a little bit of a cadence to like hopping in and hopping out and you know making sure that the broadcast runs smoothly um

You know what's honestly if I'm if I'm being before I ever did the pod and stuff like that And I was blessed to meet Logan and Howard I I had done a little work with TNT Going up to like NBA TV. It just the schedule of it with my kids being as young as they were was really difficult for me So like I had always said as as much as I could be at home and present and I get to coach them and just those years that I wasn't ever going to get back I wanted to be around as much as possible so I had to let some of that stuff kind of, I had to let some of it go because I just wasn't really going to commit to it the way I needed to. So who knows?

But thank you, dude. That's really cool. Well, you don't know how colds you are, right? I don't realize how cold he is, bro. You know, speaking of NBA TV, you know who I'd be seeing occasionally

and he'll be always asking about you? Who's that? The guy Tara August, always is like, what is Roger doing now? Is he going to do it? No, I love those folks. They were really good to me, bro. Those were, and not for nothing.

Like, when you see those guys up there, you take for granted, like, actually how much goes into that. And, like, you know, at least I did when you get there and how much of a day, how much of a night that is, because they're usually shooting, like, once the, once the NBA night is over and into the wee hours of the morning. So it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a pretty big deal. I had a blast. They were super cool to me, but I, you know. Well, there's this new NBC. deal, right? Howard? Is there like a big deal they did? NBC and Amazon both are staffing up. So Raja, you know, I like my dogs though, man. You can I can do both though, right? You can do both.

But don't fucking leave us. Don't you fucking leave us. I'm just saying. I appreciate you, no doubt. Cliff, what's happening? What's going on with the question? Let's good. Let's get to this first Melbaugh question. Hi, my name is Anna Bennett and I'm a junior in high school from Minnesota. I'm a huge fan of the real ones and I listen to every podcast episode. And I'm also a huge Wolfs fan. How did you guys get into writing and into the NBA world? My dream is to work in basketball, either in media or in a more front office position. And I take any tips. Also, do the wills have any real shot this year? Oh, that's dope, Anna. Thanks for the question. I guess on the Timberwolves part of it, uh, me, no, sorry, I don't think so. All right, buddy. Got to be honest.

Um, it's called the real ones. Uh, on the, you know, the career side of it could be a three-hour presentation. I won't do that. But like, you know, like with anything, like you follow your passion, right? So I was a fan first. I became a journalist along the way, but it was my fandom that got me into it, that got me interested. So like ride that passion, like the more passionate you are about whether you want to cover the MBA or whatever it may be. Like dig in, dig all the way in. Watch documentaries, read stories, read your favorite writers, especially if you want to be a writer, you got to read the people whose work speaks to you the most because you're going to, you're going to try to not copy but emulate, you know, different styles, different voices,

different approaches to storytelling. But just learn as much as you can. And actually, one thing I wish I had known back at the start of my career is the last piece all throughout to anybody listening. Like advanced stats and breaking down the basketball aspect of this has become so much more important than it was when I first started. that if I were to start this all over, the two things I would absolutely do, I would take a bunch of stats classes because it's actually really important to understand that stuff, not because

it's the be all end all, but because understanding it at the level that people talk about it and the teams talk about it now is important. And the second part is I came into this as kind of the generalist, right? Like I wanted to cover the NFL. I was a huge Niners fan, right? The NBA, it just kind of, that's where my career led me. And I would have taken time along the way in college definitely to like, you know, there's sometimes through like the, the athletics department or PE departments, whatever, you can take like, here's the fundamentals of whatever. Like, even if you've played the game, you can go educate yourself on, on it on a different level. I think I would have done a lot more just in terms of like the educational part of it, just to

prepare myself. The writing came just with reps and reading a lot, writing a lot, the reporting, interviewing techniques, all that stuff you just kind of learned by doing. But yeah, I would have, would have, I think, dived deeper into just some of the preparation along the way. Hope that helps. I would say, like, to add on the Howard's point about keeping the passion, that's the only thing that's going to get you through. I mean, if you don't have the passion for this, like, you're not going to get to the point that you want to get to because there's going to be a lot of really hard nights writing.

You might not get paid early on in the way that you feel like you should, and that's just the reality of the situation of the economics. you gotta really love it. Like I started in locker rooms when I was 18, and I didn't get paid at all until for like five years into it. And that was like freelance stuff, right? And so that's just the reality of the situation. And you have to have that passion for it.

And also I think one of the things that I think I would have told myself more to do is kind of embrace what made me different. in the space because when you first get into writing and reporting and stuff you kind of look at everybody around you and basically become a mock-up of like a few different people that you admire and I think Ben can speak to this right

like you every that's how you start off when you're creative it's like you you you are just an amalgam of the things that you have seen but then you kind of find yourself right and you find yourself and you find yourself and you find out who you are, if I could have done it again, I would have tapped into what made me different even more so because I think that would have helped out my writing and my creative part.

So I think that that's my advice to Anna. Anna. Yes, Anna from Minnesota. Do you have any advice for Anna, Ben? Like just as a creative in general? I think it comes down to that one thing. You've got to believe in yourself and you've got to be willing to just do it no matter what.

Everybody has their own sets of challenges when you decide to go for something like that. And you're right. It's like just getting even just getting hired is so tough, but then you have to also you have to have a voice and you have to develop your voice and like Howard was saying you just have to

keep on doing it. You have to keep on developing who you are and allowing you know, it's sort of like it just it's something that takes time and if you're lucky enough to get an opportunity to do it in any way, I think you just take whatever opportunity you have and then just keep going. But you got to do it because you love it.

It's a tough time. I imagine it's a tough time to be a sports writer right now. Absolutely. It's a tough time to be in the newspaper and journalism business in general, let alone sports. Well, allow me then, because I think she said something about maybe like front office or something like that. Did she say something like that too? Yeah, she did. A lot of avenues to being, like a lot of avenues that are open now.

Howard touched on a big one in terms of stats. Like people are making their way to front offices in that way now. That wasn't available, you know, 20 years ago. Like you had to be a basketball background person. I've met people in front offices that are purely statisticians, capologists, people that are great with numbers in math, and they can, you know, there are so many different avenues that are not necessarily. truly basketball ops that if that if you you know meet connect intern um and just take those opportunities

still have to be passionate like these guys said but like there are a lot of avenues that if you're not like a true basketball getting on the court working with guys player development type of person or even a film room person you could still find your way to a to a position on in a franchise let's get to the next one uh this is from dennis stack next scape go coach firing what up logan Roger Howard and Cliff. First of, thanks for the wonderful, informative and entertaining content each week. Y'all are my favorite basketball pod, and I appreciate your work. I was curious as to which or as to who each of you think is the top candidate to be scapegoat firing among NBA coaches this summer, aka who's the Frank Vogel of 2025? And follow-up question,

do you see any of these potentially fire coaches or already fired in the case of Mike Brown having an immediate? Y'all fucked up successful season with another team, a la J.B. Bickerstaff with the Pistons. Thanks for your time. Keep up. the great work peace dennis that was a great foot don't hold back guys yeah i mean it might it might be vogels replacement i mean i don't know that he's going to but like that he he's a candidate for it right like he that's i think it's bigger than i mean obviously now we've got enough sample sides that's bigger than a coach issue right so you keep replacing it's talking about boon-hoster yeah boot and hoser yes yes i i would i would definitely um

I could definitely see that happening with Boot and Holzer. Because he's a great coach. And like what's the point? Like I thought the sons were going to be better. They came through the bay like a couple of weeks ago, a few weeks ago. And it was just, it just, the energy just sucked, man. It was gross. I, I, let me look.

I'm looking at the, you know who else I think it would be one? A fuck you one? Nick Nurse. Like if this all goes bad. Sorry, Cliff. I mean, if this all goes bad, you know, y'all will talk. Oh, it was bad. It already went bad. Yeah. I can see.

No, he's better than that. You're right. He's way better than that. What's going on right now? He could definitely find a way to a new team and say, fuck you. So yeah, those are, that's, big nurse is my candidate. Who's your candidate, Howard, and then Ben? No, Nurse was the obvious one. I hate speculating on coaches getting fired, anybody getting fired. But, like, that's the obvious one where if you just need to hit the reset and you're

trying to, like, just do something to placate ownership, placate the fans, placate somebody, you throw the coach overboard because you can't do anything. anything about the roster and the idea of nurse then landing somewhere else and immediately turning that team around like not far-fetched at all we've seen Nick Nurse succeed. So yeah, he's he's the most obvious. I mean, yeah, but that the Sixers, I mean, that's, there's so many other factors, don't you think. Yes. Yeah, but that's the scapego part of it in the question. Right, Cliff? It was like they're like, like, Vogel got scapegoated in Phoenix, got scapegoated in L.A. Vogel, they should just name the scapegoat award if there were one after Frank.

Vogel. Vogel. Vigner. The annual Vogles. You got Vogled. Okay. Let's do one more, Cliff. All right.

Let's do one more. SGA's whistle. This is from Matthew and Brousal. Does SGA get the friendliest whistle of any player this decade? It seems like he continues to draw files while jumping sideways into players and going into unnatural shooting motions. Even though according to the recently modified rules, these actions should no longer draw a file. If he doesn't have the friendliest whistle this decade, who does?

Thanks, Matt B. I could think of one guy in New York. Oh. I could think of one guy in New York. Wow. Okay. All right. Here we go.

All right. All right. All right. All right. Let's settle out. Cliff, don't let your bitterness seep through. Wow.

What bitterness? He's a Philly fan. Now they have is bitterness. That's all they have. It's literally just to be bitter. I'm not sure an M. B fan should be, uh... Right.

Well, wait. He was actually getting filed, though. And B was coming. Oh, fuck out of here, man. He does a little swing. He literally jumps into players. Stop. Stop.

Stop. He's up and under. He's getting pushed around. And B was getting fouled. James Harding. And fouling. Let's not forget that. He's a hack for sure.

I think Mitchell Robinson is speaking about. Yes. Let's go. James Hardin, obviously, he played in the last decade. They still drawing fouls. Yeah. I would say him as a prime candidate. I was going to say Dwayne Wade, but Dwayne Wade has played, like, he hasn't played effectively in the last decade or so.

Like his prime, he was like that. The 606 finals definitely come to mind with that. But I would say James Harden, Jewel and Bede and Jalen Brunson. What about Trey. Wait, what about Trey Young, though? Trey Young was getting that bad. Yeah, Trey Young, too. But, you know, for Jalen Brunson, though, wouldn't you say that if that is a thing, it's only really in the last year or so, right?

Right? Because I feel like for so long he wasn't getting calls. Yeah. I think you are, look, look, the reality is you earn your way to that, right? Like, there's a, there's a level that you get to as a score as a number one, like, threat as a team carrying option that there's a level you get to where you, you know, just for better or for worse, you're going to get the benefit of the doubt with these officials. they're human at the end of the day, right? And so, yeah, I think Jalen Erna, he certainly wasn't getting that in Dallas or his first year in New York. Like, that wasn't the case.

And SGA does, SGA does get that. But like, I, and everyone's, I've seen it on socials. There I rate over it. It's like the hot topic right now. But like, that's been, that happens, dude. Like, we can point to that in every generation where a handful of dudes are going to get a bunch of calls and they don't make their living score.

You don't score 30 some points a game in the, NBA without a baked in amount of free throws. Like, I'm not going to go down that rabbit hole with people again, but like, you just don't. Not this episode, at least. Yeah, you just can't sustain the level of shooting that is required to average 30 a game unless you're a master at getting to the free throw line for whatever, whatever that means to you. Yeah, I think I see one more question for Ben from Murdoch Logan 510. He's, I'm not sure.

of the of the the the the tough free eight that the superstar free agents that the nicks have like i noticed i grew up a leger's fan i know like you know that they have the memes or like this person's coming in free agency this person's on the way the the katy kreys the lebrons the every summer which of those guys that didn't come to new york broke your heart the most um that you talked yourself into the was going to happen. Yeah, I don't think I ever was expecting, you know, when they were talking about like KD and, and LeBron. I could think LeBron was the one, you know, that was like, that would be incredible.

Were you in recruiting at all? Did you like, did you say? Were you in that pitch video, that awful pitch video that Bloomberg was in? I don't think so. Good. Like what he played? I did. video. I honestly, I don't remember who it was for it. I'm being totally serious that like like seven or eight years ago. They asked me to do a thing. But it was I think it might have been maybe it was LeBron. I don't know. Anyway, I mean, I don't think Nick's fans mentality was always like it's never really going to happen. But I for a second it was like, oh, if LeBron came to New York, that would be insane. And I don't think that was ever very real though, was it?

he dropped some hints during that season, that 09-10 season. He was definitely flirting. He was overtly flirting. It was a toxic thing going on. He was like wearing a Yankees hat at a like baseball game in Cleveland, I think. Like he was doing some stuff that certainly I think led Nick's fans on. Yeah. I mean, that whole Boston, I mean, so Brooklyn, you know, KD era was just like, what a, what a frustrating thing for the first.

for Nets fans. I mean, you know, right? That was just what a mess. Yeah, that was tough. I would have,

maybe like, Steve, I hope you're not listening because I would have really enjoyed kicking it with you for three years, but maybe one of the best professional calls I ever made, Mac. Good job,

buddy. Good job, buddy. He was supposed to be on the staff for the Nets. He picked real ones instead. It was great. It was great. By the way, Steve, Steve Nash is a great tennis player.

Did you know that, too? Like, he played. I played in a Dirk Novitsky tennis tournament, and he was, he won it. He was like, and he just took, took up tennis like three years before or something like that. Yeah, he's, Ben, he's like, well, he comes down here when he's down here. Like, I'll be like, yo, man, are we going to, like, get a drink or something? He's like, I just got done, you know, hitting with Coco.

So, like, he hits with, like, Cocoa, like, competitively. He's serious, yeah. Weird, not weird, but just, like, blessed. What, you take him to play golf and you're like, yo, you hadn't played golf in four years. years and he might shoot like a 92 or like an 88 he's just right natural good good yeah good at stuff like that yeah is he one of the most underrated athletes in NBA history because like he's like a great athlete like multi sports but I don't think like he gets the credit of being like the athlete athlete that he is yeah because he's not like well I mean watch and play soccer and I don't mean

this to be like a geek out on it but watch him play soccer he plays with world class soccer players and he looks like he's he's fine like it doesn't look crazy for him to be out there I think because he's not he's not like above the rim type of dude that people kind of get you know they're different kinds of athletes you don't have to be like the most powerful high jumping fastest running person to be the most athletic person right like is there's hand-eye there's timing there's all kind of stuff that goes into being a great athlete and he fits up he checks a lot of the boxes he's a lot bigger and and stronger than you generally think too yeah yeah oh man another guy that could have been a great nick sorry ben um all right man

This has been this has been a treat, obviously. And I'm dead serious when I say this. If you need, if you have a part in anything that you got going on for, you know, three smucks that do a podcast. I know three smugs to do a podcast, you know, that you can write in. I'm just saying. Three schmucks in a podcast. Let's get it cracking.

I'm just saying if you have like a severance opening, one of them weird ass fucking goat themes and you need a podcasters to like fucking announce it, I don't know. I'm spitballing here. Who knows? We're right here. I love it. And Cliff, you're included too. Okay.

Let's go. Let's go. I need my first big role, man. I need my first big rule. I just hear, this would be my dream job, right? And Howard, this is going to tie,

I mean, Ben, this is going to tie into what you were saying. If, if there's ever a Dodgeball remake, I would gladly do play-by-play with Jason Bateman. I'm just letting you know. The Ocho.

Because he's like one of my other favorites. So, like, that would be, if I did that, I'd not even question. You're definitely on for that. Definitely. Yeah.

All right. But I want to hear you in the real NBA game. So that's still my, yeah, that's my focus. Hey, Ben. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, no. I was it going to say also, this is my last time.

I mean, hopefully maybe someday again, I'll come on, but like this is my only chance. Logan, the other thing about you is how do you have this crazy encyclopedic knowledge of like NBA, like games and history? Because you really do. Oh. Like you go, yeah, well, like, 1986, that, the third, you know, round and whatever, you know, everything. Do you study it? Well, I think I get it from my mom, man. She was one of the people that, like, when I was at a, I mean, Rogers met my mom, Howard's been my mom.

She's literally the same, like, literally the coolest people. Yeah, but like she, when I was growing up would just be like, oh, yeah, like, I've been a Lakers fan since Kareem was, got traded in 1975, right? Like, I don't say stuff like that. So it was kind of ingrained in me to have these things. And also, like, I'm a fucking basketball geek. I love this stuff, man. I used to watch, like, all the documentaries, every single thing. Like, the reason why I became a Laker fan, and the reason, and I told Howard this,

the reason why I became a Howard motherfucking Beck fan is because I got a VHS at six years old for the 2000 title run. And I just got obsessed with everything Lakers. And then I saw Howard with the Nirvana, Harrow. cut in the grunge outfits and all the documentaries and I would just watch them but like I literally it was I gotta see those I haven't seen that I'm not I'll send you to I'll see you to but like I would just I would just be immersed in it and honestly like it just you know it kind of just saved my life man like I just I just love this thing and like I get recalls through basketball dates in general for everything right and

so yeah it's just something that I'm just like really obsessed with well that kind of goes back to that question, that other earlier question about just like you have this love of it, it's just so ingrained you, but then you, you know, but then you also have, makes you put in the work of like learning all this stuff and knowing all this stuff, which is so important to what you do, what you write about. Yeah, I appreciate you. I appreciate that, man. Thank you, bro. Yeah. Just wanted to say it. Anyway, and Howard, you know, I feel like, I feel like we've known each other now for a while, kind of. Yeah. A furious, uh, DMing relationship for, for a long time there before we finally What fuck is going on on my Knicks, Howard? What the fuck?

I always want you to like the Knicks more, Howard. I can't get you to like the Knicks more. Nix fans are tough audience, man. It's, you know, the nine years I covered them. I mean, listen, in my defense, I covered them during, like, the most dysfunctional period of, like, their existence. So, and I wrote some nice stories along the way. It was coincided with Ben not even, like, being a Knicks fan at the time. He was not even there.

He didn't come back till the dysfunction seems. A little bit. A little bit. Took a while. Took a while. But no, Ben, this is awesome, man. I'm so glad you were real spent some time with us today. Don't be a stranger, bro.

Don't be a stranger. You guys are great. Thanks, man. I'm enjoying being in this moment right now. Just being here, part of the podcast. That's why I appreciate you guys. Also, real quick, and I'm going to do this. I'm going to put me, Rajah and Howard, all three, all four of us, all four of us, four of us,

four of us on a group chat. Because Rajah doesn't believe. he didn't believe that you were a fan of this pot. I don't even think he believes right now because he literally would be like, shut the fuck up. He's not coming on the pot. Shut the fuck up.

He's like going to pot. And I'd be like, Roger, he's coming on. He's a fucking A-list star. But like, we're fucking coming on the pot. No,

dude. Ben, this guy was, I was, he's absolutely right. And I'm not so sure that I'm not dreaming right now. But like, like,

something happened on the, on the old X where like I had something and I was like, I don't know, you liked it or if you or something and I was like no fucking way not even no that was me that was Jesus man yeah this was this was super cool man like I just huge fan obviously and oh same so kind to do it man thank you guys are awesome keep doing your thing yeah you definitely earn friend of the show family of the show and you're been motherfucking stiller so we can't like to see you um next time when you're on the pod we will be the group chat about to be pop

and talk to you guys soon. We'll see you guys Friday. Thank you to Cliff. Thank you to Ben. Thank you to Victoria. Thank you to Keith. Thanks to all the homies, man. All the affiliates.

We will see you guys soon. All this shit. Bye.