The Ringer NBA Show - Bill Simmons and Pastor Carl Lentz on Locker Room Culture, Secret Scrimmages, and More (Ep. 158)

Episode Date: November 8, 2017

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Hillsong pastor and NBA confidant Carl Lentz to lay out how the secret NBA scrimmages come about in the summertime and many more inside-the-NBA stories from the likes of LeBron and reigning MVP Russell Westbrook. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This special edition of The Ringer MBA show is brought to you by Seekek, the presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons podcast on the Ringer podcast network. Buy and sell tickets and two taps on your phone. Everything fully guaranteed. NBA fans, $20 off your first Ckeek purchase on NBA tickets. Use promo code. BS MBA. $20 off your first purchase. Download the C geek app. There you go. Here he is. My friend, Pastor Carl. Pastor Carl's in the house, Carl Lentz. What's name of your book? On the Moment. We've done this podcast already. We just didn't tape it.

It's true. Am I the first pastor you've ever had? You're my first pastor, period. Ever that you've ever... I'm not a religious person. But that's how I was raised. Yeah. It's my mom's fault and my dad's fault.

Anytime we can blame the parents in the first two minutes, we're there. Yeah, let's do it. But first 30 seconds. It's true. It's true. Thank you for having me though. I appreciate it. Well, you know I love talking to real basketball fans.

There's only very few. I totally agree. I am at least that. So your name started popping up. When did you start popping in these stories? Like two years ago? I think probably even before that with KD. Some people saw us together.

And I knew Jay Will, the Duke, Jay Will, not the white chocolate, Jay Will. Not Shoffer, Possible Shooter, Jay Will. Not that. Not that too, well. There's two options. And I think some, so people kind of knew, but then, yeah, when KD started to kind of take his faith in a different way, I was around. So people are like, who's the, who's the random white guy?

Right. Yeah. So you became a mysterious figure in basketball circles, a little like my friend World Rod West. People are like, who's this guy? What does he want? What does he get out of it? Somebody actually tried to insult me one time by saying you're like the white worldwide West. to which I was like, do we just become best friends?

It's like the coolest thing anyone's ever said. Yeah. But I know Wes, and I'm not him. He makes way more money, and he's much more mysterious and cool. But yeah. So, yeah, if you get around certain people, they're going to make up stuff about you and just speculate. There are some similarities, though. Tell me.

So, first of all, you're in it for the relationship. You're not actually trying to get something out of it. you're more like, you've accumulated these relationships that mean a lot to you. Yeah. And you're there for the people, but you don't ask them for anything, which is the same thing. West is always like a conciliary big brother type, especially like last decade, but wasn't like, hey, cut me a check, buy me a car. Like he was just kind of in it for the conciliary aspect of it and figured out everything

else would work out. Yeah, I think I start kind of with one, one. foot back because most guys who do know pastors, they have been either taking advantage of or have a couple bad experiences. So a lot of guys are really hesitant to trust people on this level. So for me, not having an agenda is pretty cool. Like, we have a great church. I have a great family. And I wouldn't say I ask for nothing. Like, I do ask for game shorts. I do take free shoes all day. I love game shorts. I play in them. So I wouldn't say ask for nothing. And I did ask one time for, I think it was KD to somehow call the 2K people and boost my guy from the start.

I don't know if you're a 2K gamer. I am. I'm retired. I'm in my 40. I turn 39 today. It's my birthday, by the way. Yeah. And I had birthday.

So I still play video games. I'm not ashamed of that. But one time I was like, man, I don't have time to rank my guy up. And Kyrie has like an awesome ranking. I'm like, can you call somebody? Kevin, can you call somebody? So I called the 2K people and they ranked my guy up. So any of your listeners that know how awesome that is in 2K, rather than be like the bum,

my guy was like one of the legend. legends on the court. So that was a perk and I'm not ashamed of that either. That's a pretty good one. I think my, yeah, my relationships with these guys is based on trust and just giving help when needed and not needing much. Yeah. Well, tell the, tell the audience how big your church is. We probably have maybe nine, 10,000 people coming on a weekend in New York. And where is it located? A block from MSG at the Hammerstein Ballroom. So how many people at one time

in there? It depends on how we seed it and it's like different services at different times have like standing room only or there'll be a little bit more space, maybe 2000. Okay. Yeah. And we have a service in New Jersey as well. What was the tipping point moment when you went from basketball fan who just knew these guys as guys you watched on TV and saw in person versus you were involved in somebody's life?

It's a good question. I think it was kind of natural because really the first NBA guy or that level that I hung out with was Jay Williams. And we were playing basketball together. and we became friends, and I kind of forgot that he was Jay Williams, and then I realized, you know, moving forward how normal some of these guys are and that we do have a unique lane. And Jay Will, by the way, can still play. But I remember why we bonded because we almost got into a fight in the pickup game,

you know, me more supporting him. And he was like, man, you're a pastor. That doesn't make any sense. I'm like, you need to broaden your church from because we are not playing charity ball out here. It's God will that we win, and we'll cheat to do it. So that resonates with people. So then what happens next? How do you all of a sudden have KD in your life?

Well, the KD relationship began because I knew one of the background staff guys at Oklahoma. And I can't say his name because I don't want to get him in trouble because I don't know. OKC is okay with other guys reaching out. But I met him. They'll start following him from the airport. He knew of our church. And he just said, hey, some of our guys, you know, kind of know about what you guys are doing. Can you pray for him?

To which I was like, yeah, I'd love to pray for him right now. And then they ended up coming out, him and Russell later that night. And I met them both. And that was it. It kind of hit it off of both of them. And we stayed in touch. And the teams are automatically skeptical, scared. 100%.

What's this guy? Get this guy out of here. But if you're connected to, like, the biggest guy on the team, they can't do anything because there's a lot of weirdos in there. So I think some teams cut their losses with me. They're like, we don't trust you. We don't really know who you are, but we also, you know, maybe this would err on the side of being better than worse, so we'll give you a break. But some teams are cool, though.

Like some teams are really, they open the doors, and then other teams are just really skeptical. And that's funny to me, because I'm like, I'm the last guy. You need to worry about it. Like, I'm definitely stealing stuff out of your equipment room. Yeah. I'm not. I'm good. Yeah, yeah.

I'm taking shots and warm-ups if I can, but I used to do that in college. Like, my boys would come to the sideline and right before that last buzzer. I would always roll the ball to the corner and the dude would come out and shoot. So I've shot a couple on NBA courts, which is cool. Religion in the NBA has been a mixed bag over the years. And you even saw it when Mark Jackson flamed out in Golden State. All those stories came out after about that team got too religious and certain guys didn't like it and they're praying and doing all these things in the locker room

and it split the locker room apart. Who knows how much of that is overblown. But we know how religion fits in. You see it with football. And in basketball, basketball lockerums are more melting pots. I mean, you're talking, you got the black guys, you get the white guys. You have the black guys who came from the worst possible backgrounds, the guys who came from middle class.

Then you have all these foreign dudes. Yes. The foreign guys are awesome, though. Most of the time they're awesome with the religious part or just in general. You know how dark you have in your book how he like, you know, amalgamated into like this hip-hop German dude. Yeah, hip-hop German accent. Yeah.

So I think a lot of the German guys I've found, like, you know, Beano is one of my, one of my close friends. And they're just really, really good locker room guys. But yeah, it is a melting pot of religion and faith and weird beliefs. So yeah. Can you have faith in a locker room? I mean, can you have collective faith? No, no. And it shouldn't be an issue.

The problem is when somebody in an organization tries to force something. And I think in Golden State, when Mark Jackson was there, he got a bad rap for that. I don't think that's the way it went down. because David Lee is one of my great friends. Shout out to David Lee who's engaged. Yeah. Oh, I'm excited for that engagement because I love when athletes marry each other. Well, imagine my child.

He married was Nackie. Was Nacki? I don't know. She's an awesome chick. I don't know how to pronounce her. Yeah, I'm just calling her Mrs. Lee. Yeah, future Mrs. Lee. They're going to have a child that's going to be a dominant athlete.

They're going to have a tall athletic child with good hand eye. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe a lefty, too. Yeah, that would be even better. I don't think Golden State was as heavy-handed as it seemed, but Mark Jackson's so charismatic that if he says, hey, y'all, we're going to church,

you could take it as, like, not an option, when Mark Jackson would mean it as an option, so you get the whole team going, and then it just, you know, I think it was a bad narrative on that. But, yeah, I just, I don't think anything should be forced on anybody. It's all right. So take somebody, like, Kyrie's somebody you're close to.

Yeah. Vary degrees of closeness, because these guys have big lives. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When do you get involved in his life and how does that work out? Completely need to know. So I always tell guys that I get to work with like, I'm here for it if you need me. You don't have to respond to my text. You don't have to call me for anything.

I'm just here. And sometimes guys will reach out when they need it. And if they're going through stuff and, yeah, the rest is, you know, on them. Yeah. So with KD, you got to the point where you were involved with his whole decision in 2016. 16. I think I was involved just because of proximity, like involved meaning talking to him and just hearing him out, like had no hand in it. There's some stuff that was written about me having a hand in even Kyrie's thing. And I keep saying it's not like that. Like we're not back there.

I'm not good enough and smart enough. I thought it was you and Bieber to convince him to go to leave the cast. Apparently I have time to be an NBA agent and a tour manager. But no, with Kevin, I know, I know it went into that decision. That was heart wrenching for him and wasn't. Callas, it was like the biggest deal ever, and he really did what was in his mind best for him. And it hasn't paid off yet, also known as, of course it did. He's a champion. He's playing on the best team maybe that we're going to see in a long time. And I'm happy for him because a lot of guys do stuff out of pressure, which makes no sense.

Loyalty to an organization, even though we know the moment these guys retire, loyalty means you get like a free seat and they honor you twice a year at mid-court. So I just think. Or you might become an announcer for the team. Maybe at best. And I think for him, it's like, bro, you've got to maximize this window. You're never going to get it back, make as much money as you can do it. You have fun.

Because Kevin, what? He left Texas at 19, was drafted, thrown in the mix. It's like if you get to any profession and have the right to write your own ticket, do that. Nobody gets to do that. So enjoy it. I think he did that. Yeah, the first time we did a podcast, we argued about it. He's your unofficial co-host.

I listen is this where he sits am I in this chair no he's never been in here we've always been he he only plays home games on the podcast that's big time you're sitting where charlie's sat though that's a holy sofa now I feel the anointing but the thing with kD though I see it both ways that you know being a super competitive person yeah I get the side where people are like that team beat him in the playoffs and then he went and played with them and those people who believe that going to be swayed from it. And I get it. Yeah. I'm also like, I don't know, for some reason I just

felt, and I've talked about this a million times, but, you know, the situation he was in an OKC, some of the moves they made, and just like what his life was like up to that point, the reason that he left actually really made sense to me. Yeah. And it did make me re-evaluate

how I felt about some of this other stuff. You know, I hated what LeBron did in 2010. Right. And now I look back at it and it's like, It makes a little more sense. He wanted to change. He saw Wade, not like a father figure, but like somebody who could be like his brother

and he could go to war with. Yeah. And get Bosch and just start news somewhere else. He really wanted it. He'd been in the same place this whole life. You must, when you talk to some of these guys, the whole theme of them being trapped in a certain city, seems like it's a much bigger deal than we realize.

I think there was a rookie who just came out recently, and he said the NBA life is so boring. read that? It was very funny. Malik Monk said that. And it was funny because they probably told him not to say that, but people forget, like, it's cool to get drafted and get money, but then you get into the real-life grind. And the NBA life is like a, it's a tough one. It's tunnel vision, the same place all the time, kind of just doing that same routine. And I think a lot of guys forget, these are young men who want to live their life. And so if you get a chance to break out and do something new and free and got to do it. So I'm with you. I thought, we always look,

back at pioneers with like joy but in the moment they're not pioneers they're just like people who are complicated right so lebron changed the game a couple years from now we'll look back and be like yeah players should do what they want to do but that wasn't cool back then so i think i like this generation of guys having a little bit more control rather than an organization manipulating them or putting undue you know burden on them i'm torn on it i see it i i think it's you wish you would have stayed no k cd yeah So, no. I actually think he should have left.

And I think the timing of it with this weird salary cap situation where it was basically this one year to go to the Warriors that made sense with the cap. No other year it would have worked. And it was this one year and he wanted to go and change his life.

I wish he had gone to a different team. But as he pointed out when we argued about it, so if he goes to Boston, he's not guaranteed to win a title there. either. Yeah. I guess that's the part that a lot of people got stuck on is. They're so good already.

Yeah, why does he have to guarantee a title? That's not how competitiveness works. Yeah. That part I don't have an answer for. I don't think there are answers to that stuff. I think it's a personal thing for him and, you know, it doesn't really. I will say, though, the more time I've spent with him talking about this stuff, I really do think he cares about a higher level of basketball.

And I think that was the most appealing thing to him is that he felt like the situation he was in was not a good basketball situation that he wasn't growing as a player he wasn't challenged he was it was a lot of one-on-one and just kind of like the basketball that sucked last decade and it was this level that he i felt like he felt was out there and he's been pretty candid about that but it's not much different than what happened with kairie and i think people felt like kairi's crazy why would he leave lebron you lebron just made seven straight finals but then you if you really what if you watch Kyrie and he saw the games. If you listen to the quotes that he's had.

Right. It's clear that he's so happy right now. He's like, this is what I was hoping was out here. We had this coach. He's talking about Brad Stevens' brain. Yeah. I'm using all these parts of me that I always felt like I had and I wasn't. And now he's bought in and he's been a completely different player all around.

I think it's like a running back. I mean, yeah, you can get four or five yard gains running through the tackles. But if you want to go to a team that runs screens and you can dominate. they don't, to me, that was more Kyrie. He could be successful there. Yeah. But he wanted to be in a different system. And I think he's got the, I think we're seeing that he's pretty, he gambled on himself.

Yeah, it's, Katie had an answer. I asked him, we did a mailbag one, the last podcast we did. And I asked him, you know, it was like, what's the hottest you've ever been or whatever? And then asked would you ever, could you ever gone for 70 in a game? And he's like, I wouldn't do that. that's not a good game. That's not his psyche, yeah. I'm trying to make the best basketball play.

The best basketball play almost never is to go for 70 points. And what's interesting is watching Kai Reed these last couple weeks on the Celtics. He's had games. There's been a couple already when he could have gone for 55. Yeah. He might have gotten it. He might have taken 35 shots or whatever. But he would never do that.

He's like trying to make the right basketball play over and over again. He's good. He's so much fun to watch. I think some guys are like that. I think LeBron, you know, when LeBron went for 50s, seven against Washington this season. Last week. Not typical for him.

He kind of felt like he had to. His team was playing like crap. So I think for some of these guys, the basketball destiny part of it really does seem important. And I'm sure you've heard that, right? Yeah, yeah. I think, I mean, guys want to be thought of well.

They want to get their name in the history books. They just, I mean, people forget these dudes are the top 1% of this craft. and, you know, that stuff matters to them a lot. Yeah, I think, by the way, I think LeBron is looking really good. I don't know if people have seen, if you, have you seen him play live this year? No, I haven't seen him play live, but I've watched on TV and he's just like, athletically is starting to feel like shackish.

And I mean that as a compliment. Exactly well said. He's in 12 feet and in on the basket, he's become really kind of unstoppable. But the really precise moves, like his hero isn't trying to get around a guy as much as it is, too. I just might clip you as well. Right. You're going to go through the backstop. I'm talking about big guys.

I saw them lose to the nets the other night, you know, live and in color. I just could not believe how fluid he is. But I also saw him pregame standing on this like core. The yoga thing. Habistro wrote about that. Yeah. He's doing yoga bubbles. He's ahead of the game with his.

Honestly, he could be like, you know how Rashid kind of developed later on? He could play any position for five, six more years if he wants. He could just be a post guy. Yeah, there's a whole Carl Malone chapter of his career that we might be about to enter. I'm up for it. Where he's just a lot of like half court post up, but then also running point guard out breaks. Interesting thing about Kyle Corburt, because if they were in town, I caught up with him, who's just a legend. You love him on this.

He's got a million awesome perspective. But he was saying the biggest difference playing with LeBron is where he used to be able to catch the ball. He has to live like this because he's like LeBron throws fireballs. Right. So he's had to adjust to because he's always been the. an amazing shooter, but whereas maybe he could do this. Like with LeBron, you just never know when he's going to do that. I've never seen anybody since Magic make that like when he looks this way and he guns that

thing. Yeah. Kyle Corver said, that's been new. Like the ball comes right there. So you've got to have that split second. He's probably in some gym testing it. Yeah. He's sitting there with like dialing.

It is cool how he keeps making, he keeps adding stuff to his game. Like when he had the 57 against D.C., I went and looked it up immediately because I was like, is anybody? in year 15, ever had a game with that? It's like nobody's come close to. No way. With the rebounds and the points and the efficiency that he had in that game, it's completely uncommon.

But we're seeing this in football too with Brady. Yeah. In the old days, we would just suspect like PDs or something. But now it seems like you see all the stuff these guys are doing off the court and actually is more logical. Like, yeah, there's LeBron standing on these little yoga bubbles. And he's working out for four hours in the morning. Like he's pretty sure Kobe was on this.

of this we were making fun of them sleeping in hyper hyperbaric chambers and doing weird doing weird things yeah but yeah i think i think the thing is if kobe hadn't snapped his achilles i think he could have kept going the problem is once you're knocked out of it yeah you can't your body can't come back to where it was you know what i mean that's what all the guys i know that are getting older say they're like it's not the game as much as it is the game after yeah and it's not the workouts it's like the the fifth workout in July, late August that you're like, man, I just don't feel like, you know, as young. People are saying that's why your basketball game slipped a little.

It hasn't slipped. That's the thing. You're not. I've never been better than I am right now. You're really? You're picky. You're like LeBron. You're standing on yoga bubbles?

Yeah, I do. I do it all. I feel like I have gotten better. And it's, it's, I have played a couple times with NBA guys. And I last approximately two minutes and mysteriously sub myself out. So like when Mello had those runs, a couple of years. years ago. Oh, the hoodie mellow? This is before Hoodie Mello. This is like when

Terminal 23 was a Jordan gym and I was in there. I played one whole game, pick up one time. I had Andre drumming on my team and I did what everyone logically would do, which is feed the ball to drum and he was awesome. But the problem is guarding anybody. You can survive if you can shoot maybe

but once they sniff out that, like hey, who's this guy? And they clear out and then you just, then you're embarrassed forever on somebody's phone. So I'm always like, I'm my hamstring. somebody get me but yeah you can be Kyle Corver until you're kind I was till my mid four like about 44 I can I had this whole you're talking about playing a lot of pickup because I'm retired now I'm old you really hungry I might come back or I may make one come back

next year but yeah you can survive if you understand basketball and from an IQ standpoint and you know where to go what to do what not to do and if you can keep going if you have friends out there yeah if you have friends looking at for people you played with if they don't if you don't know anybody they will eat you alive I've seen like rappers come out and in their mind because you know rappers in their mind they're good at everything this is these aren't your boys no one thinks you can play and they just eat them alive it's awesome there are some rappers that can play though are you involved that all in that uh that weird underground summer pickup scene it feels like you are my friend chris brickley yeah is the generator of it

and he is my let's talk about this um chris is a guy who kind of does what i do except for on the basketball side. So he's got a lot of trust with guys. He's so good at what he does. A lot of guys gravitate towards them. And it just happened where everyone's looking for a place to play pickup. Nobody wants to play with average guys. And they're all in town for Fashion Week. I think Chris just maximized the moment. Shout out to my book on The Moment. And he has he has access to all these guys. So I saw all those games. And it was awesome. How did they decide? I've never heard the adequate. I think LeBron and KD probably picked them, and Chris had something to do with it. I thought Brickley was the one who made the teams.

Chris would have, but I'm sure he's going to check with those two guys. I don't have facts on that, but yeah, I don't know who picked the teams, but they were good teams. There's always a random dude who plays overseas that you forgot about. I thought they're killing because he's got something to prove. Yeah, he's a big giant chip on a show. Right, and then the NBA guys pick up their pace a little bit, and it gets really, most of the games were pretty good, pretty intense. All right, so if we say the bottom shelf intensity is the All-Star game. Yes, the bottom bottom.

The next rung is Summer League. Next run is pre-season. And next rung is like a really boring regular season game in like New Orleans. All right. Where do these games drink? We've shifted to the right and say it's its own thing because I think guys work on one specific thing. So LeBron will go out there and go from what I can see. I think maybe there, there's.

not trying to, I know with Mello one day who was just working on this post move. So no matter where he was he wasn't shooting a lot of threes. He just kept going down to the post and doing the same thing over and over. I think some of those guys in the summer they're like, I'm not going to bust my butt right now, but I'm going to work on this.

So LeBron work on a step back or whatever, but it's intense because those guys are proud. So they might try to act cool, but when it gets down to it, what kind of shit talking is going on? It's more it's more respectful. It's nobody really going at it unless Russell's involved. If Russell's there, it seems like everybody, because

Russell doesn't care who you are. Yeah. He would play in flip-flops, you know, and try to win. But I think most of the time, I didn't see any, like, real, anybody young out there gets definitely no respect. It's very funny. They might try to pretend to call a ball, and the people would be like, like, didn't even happen. Katie said Carmelo went through a phase where he was just calling every cheap foul if he didn't make the shot he'd call the foul late and they would him and dante jones yeah he's out there he's a monster out there yeah but they'll go at people for sure they'll go at people i'm surprised they let dante jones in that game well i mean he means business so i think you need people that are going to play d and i have to have the ball all the time

but he's he's a he's a huge asset because he goes at it all the time they had that rookie or a guy who's at kentucky this year i think some giant dude yeah But you see some guys who you're like, wow, you know right away you're going to be something special. And you see other guys, you can tell they got a couple years before they have the heart to be able to match. Can you do it. Can you see it. All day. All the seeds are there, right?

All day. You can see it. Yeah. Because, like, Westbrook, to me, doesn't seem like he can play basketball at any other speed than the speed he's at. No. If he's in the All-Star game, he's at that speed. Yeah. And he's looking at everybody else.

Like, they're crazy. Yeah. I'm getting 50. I'm getting the MVP. If you want to be Joe cool, that's fine. But I'm going to go ahead and get 50. and I don't care if anybody likes it. And I love that about Russ, by the way.

Cameras? Do they take all the phones? No cameras. LeBron has a lot of dudes that roll with him. He has some heavy hitting security. So there'd be like these sweet little people who live in that building. And they go, no cameras.

You know, and some lady just like walking to her apartment. And, you know, he has to go away and shame. But yeah, there's not a lot of phones in there. Chris edited all those and had his guys get the photos that people saw. I got a couple. No money? No money. No.

They don't play like 2-11, 2,000 a person? Not that I know of. LeBron's Venmo and Carmelo money afterwards? Not that I know of. I don't think they had any money on that stuff. What is the ideal number of an entourage for these guys? Whether it's Bieber or Carmelo or whoever. It depends on what stage of the career.

Oh, I like this. What's that mean? I think early on in the career, you have a lot of guys around you because you don't know what to do. and you don't know who to trust, you don't know where to go, so you have a lot of friends. So you trust the dudes that liked you and you didn't have anything.

A lot of guys have mixed loyalty. So a lot of guys will say, if you're with me from the beginning, you're with me for life. And I always tell guys, like, loyalty is about a principle, not a person. So if the person sticks with the principle

that got them there, cool. But if they don't, being loyal, doesn't mean letting the guy that's been with you from day one continue to fleece you and steal and put you in bad position. So a lot of guys have to learn that the hard way.

Like, that's my guy, he's been with me forever. Yeah, he's been terrible forever. Yeah, that guy's been with you forever with this hand out. If he doesn't change with your growth, he's got to go. And a lot of guys make that decision. It seems like for my, I wouldn't say I've limited experience because I've crossed a lot of paths at this point. Pretty sure. That's an understatement.

You're kind of like your own guy, though. Not as many as you. No, I'm on my own guy, but I'm just saying from what I've seen with the hoopers. Yeah. they like to have their dudes, and it's usually two or three, from back home. Yep. And you know whether back home is like high school or like AAU or college, but there are these two or three people.

They just trust those guys. And they don't, everybody else is regarded suspiciously until they cross. Like, KD has Rich, who's like Rich climbing, and he's like his dude now. Yeah. I'm sure there was a feeling out period where he's like, I'm not sure with this guy. I like this guy, but over the course of time, he became a guy. Well, Kevin, Kevin is a trusting guy. So I think with Rich, who's just an awesome guy, he was quick to give trust.

But Kevin's had some guys he's had this whole life. He just trust. And you could tell those guys are different than hangers on. There's some guys who genuinely love these guys. And they're like, I don't care if you're rich or not, I'm your guy, anything you need. And there's other guys who they love the life. You know, you could tell. They love it.

And if that were to change, I don't know if they'd be around. So like how deep is LeBron's entourage now? Because he's got out bodyguards and stuff too. LeBron is like a professional corporate mogul. I mean, he just, he runs, he's got the tightest crew, tightest camp I've ever seen in my life. Everybody's got a job. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

And you don't, if you don't produce and you're not like, if you don't help his image, and I think it's smart, I don't think you're going to be able to be around, LeBron for a while. So you never see LeBron in tabloids, you never see him in trouble, never see him. and partly because he lives a pretty solid, clean life. But the other thing is he's got guys that represent him well. Yeah, LeBron, considering when he became famous, and all the pressure he's been under.

He's done awesome. He really has. It's unbelievable. And I know we're in an NBA culture where no one likes to give credit to anybody, but my gosh, has LeBron changed the game. It should have gone a lot worse. A lot worse. Yeah.

I'm trying to think of, I mean, the dumbest thing he's, did was the decision. I still think that was stupid. I don't think him leaving was stupid, but I think him doing it as a TV show was just really callous to the Cleveland fans. It's still indefensible. Yeah, and I see that in my profession a lot where you'll see a guy, a big time pastor, say something. Well, you know it's not them, but you're like, who told you that that was going to go over well? And I think that happens with NBA guys all the time. But somebody like Westbrook, he's not a huge entourage guy. He's like, he has no entourage. Yeah, he's married. He has his He's dad.

Have you ever seen his dad? His dad's ripped, right? His dad looks like he's 37. Yeah. And his mom is incredible. His brother, Ray, who is awesome. He's at everything. But I'm pretty sure Russell's entourage includes Ray and his wife.

He does it. He's that kind of guy where he's like, I'm good. I don't need friends. I don't care if you like him. He's happy in Oklahoma City. But he's also, have you talked to him? Have you had him on this couch yet? No, he doesn't like me.

I don't think he, I'll have to ask him. Him and KD were mad about the hard and trade stuff. I'm not taking credit for this. Call me crazy, but I was on national television talking about how stupid it was to chair James Hardin. I don't know. I was one of my wacky opinions. I went to bat for you before Kevin liked you.

I know Rich might try to take credit for this link. Rich takes credit. Rich, I publicly defy that. Katie was the maddest about the Hardin stuff. But I remember. Like, it's my job to talk about this stuff. But you weren't necessarily wrong. I was not wrong.

But, you know, I mean, guys get attacked so much that they're quick to hate all. all media guys, but I think with any criticism, see if it's true. First step to any criticism before you get mad, see if there's any truth to it. Well, I think with that one, it hurt. It actually was too close to home. Yeah. And now that we've done these podcasts, in the fourth mailbag one, Katie talked about

the Hardin trades, like the biggest what-if of his career, he never would have admitted that two years ago. But it is crazy that these three guys, like Hardin, we're taping this on a Monday. Hardin had 56 points on 25 shots last night. He's on the same team with Westwood. Berk and Durant. It's shocking to think about it. Do you think they could have survived, though, with those three guys being?

I don't know. I think they would have had to take different forms that might not have been as good for their ultimate destiny. But that includes, that's three-person humility. I don't know if that's happened. At that level? It's happened. Like you saw it. I mean, you have to go way back.

Yeah. You'd have to go back to like Russell Celtics and stuff like that. Those days don't count. Yeah, those days don't count. These, I don't know. You've seen it on the dream team. Yes. You've never seen it over the course of a whole season and over the course of multiple seasons, you know.

Yeah. It's tough. Basketball, this is why I love the stats, but at some point the stats only go so far. Yeah. Because there's still this whole other part of basketball that people don't account for. Like, all right, Westbrook, won the MVP last year. I didn't think he should have, but he was a candidate. Yeah.

I would have not put him below top three. but now you look at Canter leaves he goes to New York all of a sudden he's an asset again yeah Oladipo leaves

gets in better shape so not all that's on Westbrook but goes to this team he's empowered he's playing better Sabonis looked like a bozo last year like he looked like a complete bust

and is now an above average starting center and it's you got to look back at that and you go Westbrook Westbrook was the MVP but did he make those guys better no

the situation made him better. I think where you're astute at pointing out a lot that if you're not like, you know, on the inside of the NBA, you miss tone and vibe. Like vibe of a team. Like so if team gets a win, watch them walk to the bench. Like you can find out so much in interactions. Like so you've got to win, but you know this dude has hit three in a row and teammates should clap. Teammates still shaking his head looking at his boy in the stands. You know that's something you can't, you can't statistically. Some of that's set from the coach too. It's the coach and the best player. Absolutely. Like Stevens with the Celtics, the guys, your minutes might get yanked around or whatever,

but you look over the bench, they're all locked in. It's culture. Yeah. It's culture all day long. And coaches set that. And like, they're not having it at, what's Stephen Jackson, who's a legend, he gets, you know, removed from the team. I think that's pretty heavy. And that's, that's San Antonio culture will not accept anything less than, you know, the best.

Right. You think you're as good as Kauai. You're not. You have to go. Yep. I know Kevin has said some coaches would tell him ahead of time, hey, You know, I'm going to say this, this and that in front of the guys, and then come out and do it. And then it's like, I think players respect, all I've ever heard about Steve Kerr is he treats you exactly the same everywhere.

So if he's going to chew you out, it's going to be in front of people. If he's going to praise you, it's going to be in front of people. That sets a tone of accountability. He learned that from Popovich and Phil, though. Yeah. Those are the guys for that. Phil Jackson? Huh?

Phil Jackson? Well, he had filled the good version. Good Phil Jackson. Chicago Phil Jackson was the good Phil Jackson. I agree. I think Lakers won got a little full of himself. Got a little bit of Kobe Shackism. Well, the thing with that team, though, that's the all-time, I'm trying to think of the combustible chemistry combo.

Yeah. Two guys that were just wired not to like each other if they played together and they happen to play together during the primes. Have you ever pointed out the triangle offense myth, though? Like, I just don't think it. They never really stuck to it when it actually mattered. Michael Jordan. They didn't. time the triangles work, he's had one of the greatest players of all time. If they can't work

outside of that sample size, I'm not buying it. I watched the Knicks try to run the triangle for four years. Well, the spirit of it, Steve Kerr has tried to do with the Warriors, he's taking little pieces of it. He basically wants everyone to touch the ball, which is what the triangles. The triangles is not always everyone going to touch the ball, but you're going to obey these specific rules. You will function in this orbit. But it doesn't work in the three-point. and shooting era. Now you have team shooting 30, 43s a game. Correct. I don't know. Can you

have two alpha dogs in the same team? I don't know anymore. I used to think so, but in Golden State, it's kind of proven they do. I think Steph and KD are the closest you can get to having two alpha dogs. You put Draymond in there. I think Draymond's his own kind of dog. I don't know if you can label him. I would say

Dremontzi. I would say he's the alpha dog. Yes, but I do think... I don't think Steph and KD are wired like alpha dogs. I still think your best player, like as much as I of Kauai. I feel like your best player has to be the biggest, strongest leader in the NBA. I do. I think at the end of the day, that's what the guys listen to. So I think when it comes to Golden State's got the best of all world. They have Draymond, who's the biggest culture carrier. And I got Stefan KD, who are pretty good leaders in their own right. So now you've got three.

And Clay is probably, he's just quiet. Clay's just a chill dude. But he could be if he needed to be. But I haven't seen in the NBA in this era, I'm interested to see John Wall and Bradley Beale. What's going to happen there? I'm very suspect of that one. What's going to happen there? Like I think it seems like it's going okay, but I don't know. At some point someone has to go, I'm okay to play the B side tonight. I almost feel like the whole concept of alpha dogs is morphing to something else because, like,

I don't feel like KD and Curry are traditional quote unquote alpha dogs, but what makes them great among all the other things, they know exactly who they are as basketball players. Well said. They have no illusions. they're like, I'm good. I just want to win. I want to make the right play.

If I get hot, I'm going to ride it. Yeah. I love playing basketball. The problems are when the guys don't, like John Wall, I don't think he totally knows who he is yet. Let Bradley shoot that thing in the corner. You saw the other game where he was wide open and he kind of, and he did take it on himself, but to me, it just makes you better.

The worst thing that ever happened to John Wall was when he made that three-pointer and jumped on the table, that game. Yeah, because I don't think he's a great three-point shooter. He's not good. And then the half court, not as good either. I love John Warr. I think he's amazing. I think when he realizes that with a minute to go, down one, get the ball to Bradley Biel,

this is what's going to help us win. He's better than I am at this one thing. That's when he'll get there. John Paxson, who are these guys? These are a little spot-up guys. It didn't make Michael Jordan any less, you know, to hit the wide open guy. But yeah, I think that seems to me like a more traditional alpha-dog struggle. down the road because Beale's going to just keep getting better and better.

And at some point those guys are going to look at each other. I noticed it with Lillard and C.J. McCollum. Lillard hit a big three and I was looking at the tape trying to, the Blazers are jumping over on Lillard and I'm looking like, where's C.J. I always look for that too. And I didn't see him and now he might have been on the other side of the court. It might have been a fluke. But I don't know.

I always look for that stuff. Was C.J. happy that he made that? I don't know. He better be. Yeah, you better be. It's the NFL receiver thing. You know, you won by 20, but you only had two catches. What's that malcontent going to do in the locker room?

Same concept. So for me, that's where our thing is a big deal, because if your faith is where it should be, you should want other people to do well. Ultimately, everybody does better, but it's just not like that, unfortunately. I don't know. Dame Lillard, that song he has with Little Wayne is really good.

He's a good. I think that's a really, the Dame Lurrard being a good rapper is one of the craziest things that happened in 2017. They played that song that was watching the Blazers OKC game, and they came out of commercial and played it because Little Wend was there. I was like, it's just a great tune. He's good.

He's really good. It's really good. He can be the Bo Jackson. KD can rap. I haven't heard the KD. Shump can rap. Shump? You heard Shump stuff?

Amon Shumper. Tommy's nodding. Okay. I think Amon Shumper's great. Yeah. I can't, I don't want to get in trouble. I don't know. Who, Jalen?

Yeah. Jaylen Brown. Yeah. The smartest basketball player in the league. You think so? I'm worried. I think he's going to head toward that road. There's going to be people writing stories about how smart he is,

and it's like, that does not fly in the locker rooms. Guess what you don't want to be is the self-proclaimed smartest guy in basketball? Yeah. That's not going well. Yeah, that's tough. That's tough. Do you agree with my philosophy that I wrote about in the book, which you claim to have read? No, I know you read it.

I have, hold on. I have footnotes in my book. It's an ode to you. I have it in there. Thank you. And no one's ever done it. I can't believe I'm the first guy to copy it, but I give credit to you. I copied it from David Foster Welles.

I didn't know who that is. Or care. He's one of the greats. I copy Bill Simmons. I read ESPN.com. I don't know what that guy is. Do you agree with my premise that 99% of NBA beefs are about cards or women or money? That's not a premise.

That's a reality. Cards, women, or money? One of those three things. It's not even in question. Is there ever been a beef that didn't involve one of those three things? You have to add shots, like bad shots taken. Oh, like shot selection. Over a course of a year leads to an explosion.

Interesting. I actually have a funny, there's another thing also due to misuse screens, so I know a lot of big guys. And after a while, when you have a gunner, like, I've seen guys like set screen after screen. And then the guy will come back at a timeout, like, yo, set me a screen. I ain't setting you no more screens because you keep taking dumb shots. And the guy's always bigger. That's my favorite fight, and it happens all the time. Because these guys are always demanding these screens, right?

So these big dudes who have been busting their, but I haven't touched the ball in nine games. And they finally set that last one. The dude doesn't even use it. He misses a shot. They score timeout, and they're running back, and the score starts to come in the big guy, and the big guy's like, nah, I'm setting you no more screens,

and they'll leave him out to dry, seen it many of times. Gortak got that way in the Wizard Celtics series. The Polish Hammer? He was so mad. The Polish hammer was so mad. The greatest tattoo in the game. And I suppose again, afterwards he had the whole crazy quotes about, all I do is set screens.

I can do more. First of all, you can't. You set great screens and you look like a cartoon. He does set some good screens up. Yeah, he does. What locker room over the last 15 years do you wish had called in Pastor Carl to try to heal, other than Shaq and Kobe, which is the obvious. That's where I was going.

They could have used you in that wizard's locker room during the Gilbert Arena era. I'm not trying to get shot in any locker room. I'll tell you that right now. I love Jesus, but I'm not dying in an NBA locker room as a bystander. I feel like any time there's like a, it's frustrating when you see things that are straight pride related. Yeah. Pride is something we all have to fight. And anytime I see something, there's some things that are just not going to work and it's like, don't even, I want nothing to do with your locker room.

You got to trade guys. Yeah. But there's sometimes when the team is so close, like we had a really good team in New York with J.R. Tyson, Mello, J. Lynn coming through. Like, we had something. And if you're there and you saw it, you knew. but in Amari was there. And there just was so many things floating around where guys wouldn't die to maybe their own cause

over the long course of a season. It leads to disunity. You got different competing agencies. Oh, my gosh. Picking guys against each other. And it's New York. And coaches. It magnifies everybody's desire to be a star.

So that's what New York will do to you. As we are recording this, the Knicks have given their fans hope for the first time since that Carmelo's season you just mentioned. And Porzangis went to another level. Porzingis is a baller. Frankie Smokes, the rookie point guard.

That's what we call him. I'm a Dennis Smith guy. He's got to show me so much. Well, unlike Dennis Smith, Frankie Smokes plays defense. I'm not interested in defense. In any way. I'm not going to MSG to watch somebody lock up. Well, you got Porzegis winning the scoring title.

You need a well-rounded team. He does seem like he's going to be a great player. I actually like him. I mean, I wasn't wrong on him because I didn't know anything about him. I love Mok. Yeah. But him and Mark and Marking. the finisher with two ends.

Yeah. Both seem like their players. It seemed like a great draft. I'm nervous because leadership starts from the top down. And I don't know James Dolan, but I'm really hoping he keeps on letting people make decisions. I don't even know who's making the decisions right now. Steve Mills.

Oh. Is he definitely the decision guy? I don't know. Was it his decision to give Tim Hardaway $80 million or whatever? No, if it was a bad decision, I don't put it on Steve. If it's a good one, I can do whatever I want. So I'm just going to say everything that was bad was Phil. And, you know, Steve's going to bring us a new day.

Alan Houston's involved. He's awesome. But other than that, I don't know. I just hope they keep making just even logical decisions is okay with me. We don't have to make good ones. Logical, like, don't trade Porzingis. That was like they pulled that off. Yep, they pulled that off.

Maybe we shouldn't trade the 7-foot-3 guy who could score 30 a game if we were replaced. And all he does is play ball. Like, you're not going to see Porzingis out on the town in New York. being ridiculous. Like he plays ball, he's kind, he's humble. His brother is his only entourage guy. And they just are really simple, awesome people.

So I hope we keep him forever. What's the biggest entourage you've seen without naming a name? Have we gone over 20 with an NBA player? Yeah, it's tough. It depends on the situation. But some of the guys that we've mentioned on this podcast already have giant entourages. But they're good with it, though. They go to it.

If you go see an NBA guy in a club, that whole section is their crew. But normally, you know, I think that error is over a little bit because it's just too much can't go wrong. What about musicians versus NBA players in the entourage side? Musicians have to have more, right? Musicians have more. They're definitely not as cool. Like, I think NBA guys have cooler entourages. Right.

Definitely more weed in the entourage's, I would guess. Yeah. J.B. in his heyday had some crazy entourages. What year are we talking? Maybe a couple years ago. 13? 14? No, I mean, he's like 23 now. Like a couple years ago, he just, everybody loves Justin.

Like, I did a chapel with the Steelers one time. Yeah. And he was with me to stay with me at the time. I brought him. Every Steeler went in a hang out and talk to him. And then Terry Bradshaw gets on next day. And he's like, I can't believe they let Justin Bieber into a chapel and just starts going off. And he had nothing to do with it.

He was just rolling with me. Yeah. But I've never seen somebody be, you know, that universally loved. guys love J.B. That's weird because the perception is that he's way more polarized than that. Yeah, for sure. But as we know, perception is often really far from reality. Remember that week when you convinced Kyrie to leave Cleveland and Bieber to quit his tour the same week? Yeah, it was a big week, Bill.

Where did you guys have breakfast where you said, hey, guys, here's what I'm thinking. I said, guys, here's what I want to do. I feel like we don't get enough Scientology rumors. So if you guys could make giant colossal decisions and just allude to the weird random guy that runs a church that people don't know about in detail, that would help me out. So I enjoyed that cycle of news that week.

Let me tell you. It was great. You didn't enjoy it. Not really, because you can't answer all of them. After a while, it's like, no, no, we didn't brainwash this guy. So now you're like a religious quack. Well, that would be like the negative... I don't mind.

When does it become, when you become pigeonholed by like fake stuff? I'd rather be mysterious and weird than just answer everything. So some people are like, yeah, you know, you guys at your church, you guys have like different levels of entry. We're like, yeah, for sure. How many people come to church? I heard it's like 100,000. We're like, yep, sure. All NBA players have to run their contracts by you, maybe.

You just answer random stuff. So it's just, it's not as spectacular as people think. But it is cool. It is fun to be a part of that. I just love basketball. So it's like my fun. That's something you'll appreciate. in Kevin early days we were talking about if you don't have to be a soft Christian on the court right

because a lot of guys are like I don't want to anything to do with faith that's why jeff van gundy hated chapels you know that story no despised the nix haven't chapel because he felt like it was the wrong mentality for them oh interesting yeah oh yeah there's some stories about it because that's why the nicks are like you know they're very interesting with the chapel thing but um i was telling kevin you know like because you're a christian doesn't mean you can't be a killer on the court and i was like matter of fact you know next you dunk on somebody, let's do something cool. Like do like a praying hands thing and like a slit the throat. Like we'll kill him now, pray for him later.

And he took it literally. Does it. It gets fine 25. Yeah. 100% my fault. I turn on first take next day. Skip Bayless is like, this guy says he's a Christian. And now he's doing throat, you know, throat cutting thing.

And I just felt so bad. But it was also kind of awesome. Kevin still thinks I owe him 25 grand. Yeah. I'm paying it, you know, someday. He'll be fine. I thought it was the funniest thing to see him do that. And he just, it was like an awesome play.

Did the throat slash praying hands. And, you know, so I'm responsible for that fine. Football seems like the sport where there's the most, the cloud of religion. And I don't mean that blackout. Like, just the cloud is kind of always lingering over the games. Anytime somebody gets hurt, they all get in the prayer circle. They pray after the game. NFL chapels are very somber.

You can tell dudes are like, If you wanted to, you could manipulate it. Like, hey, if you're in here, God's going to protect you. There's a fear of physical safety that goes with football. Yeah, the urgency is different. Because basketball, you signed your contract. You got a four-year, 30 million deal. You're good.

You don't care. Football, you can not have a job the day after. So guys are very... Or you can be getting wheeled out on the injury cart. Yeah. You can do some serious damage. So I think there's a couple... Some NFL chapels are a lot of fun.

Others are really quiet and chill. that has a lot to do with the quarterback. Best chapel I've ever been to, Chicago Bears, because of Josh McCown, who's like one of the best leaders still to this day that I know. But he's a gatherer, and I went into that chapel and I was like, my gosh, it was packed. Because most NFL chaplers got maybe 10, 15 guys. But it was packed. I met Brandon Marshall there. It's still like a lifelong friend.

Just an eclectic group of guys, but it all comes back to the leadership. Also, you need, there's a religious element to the speeches that either the guy gives before the game. James Winston they had when yesterday it was a disaster. He gave like this eating his fingers. It was the most awkward thing I've ever seen. The guys were like, cool. That's where it goes bad. End this quickly.

Yeah. But some of them are good. And then the post game ones, I love, like I love sounds of the game on NFL network. I always taped that. I always watch it and make sure there's not a good post game. Some of them are great. Some of the coaches, you're convinced that this is like 80% how they got hired because their speeches were good after the games.

Yeah. Yeah, I would hire Tim Tebow just to address the team. Like if I was a coach, I would have that guy in every locker room, because that's his gift, you know. We don't have that in basketball as much as that, right? No. Guys don't. I mean, unless Popovich is talking about Trump, you're not hearing a lot of fiery speeches. I don't know.

I think it's because of the long season. After a while, you want to save your voice a little bit. But, you know, Doc Rivers with the Celtics had a theme that he hammered home. Ubuntu. Yep. It actually worked. Of course it did. I mean, we almost lost to the Hawks in round one, but it did work.

But any message you do repeatedly becomes culture, and coaches don't realize that. So if you have a nice thing to say once a year, but you're always that jerky, manipulative coach, that's your culture. But Doc stuck with that theme. It helps when you have KG, Pierce, and Ray Allen desperate to win a title. Doc's like, I have this idea for Arbunta. They're like, fine, whatever. You're a big KG fan, right? I am.

I think he's one of like the great teammates of all time. I would say he's in the top four or five or whatever list. Russell would be one, and then after that, whatever else the list is, KG's got to be with next four. Kendrick Perkins picked up all those traits. Yeah, by the way. That's why Kendrick Perkins should have been kept by the Cavs. I agree.

He would have helped out a lot of the stuff. Those guys are, Mike Miller's like that. That's why he was, you know, almost the list you're just playing because you have to have that guy in the locker room. Mike Miller has saved more team chemistry moments and probably, and he's like the Guardian. Remember that movie? Yeah.

Yeah, that would be Mike Miller. Not only can he still get it done, but that guy can talk anybody into putting their shoes back on, going back out to the bench. It sounds like a team should sign you. The craft should have signed you to a minimum. I think they. You could have been in the corner of your hand up, and then you really could have done all your magic off the court. David Griffin is a friend. He's awesome.

I don't know the new guy. But, yeah, sometimes I get a chance to help with some culture stuff. but it is cool. What's the biggest misnomer about NBA players? Oh, man. Great question. Thanks. I think.

Biggest misnomer? I think because media is so good now, there aren't many. Like it used to be they don't listen to media. They do. Yeah. Well, they have too much spare time. Biggest misnomer, though, I think, is that these guys are really good people. I think the perception, that's why I don't agree with necessarily what Stephen A.

what his hoodie comments were taken as, I think he was more talking about, like, sometimes the perception of NBA guys is that they're just bigger than life and they're just these guys that don't, you know, care about stuff that's deeper. I haven't found that to be true of any of them that I know. I mean, these guys care.

They're really good people. They're just in a tough job. Like, if you're famous and rich at 20, good luck trying to be a good person. Right. So the fact these guys are, you know, doing as well as they are is amazing to me. So the biggest misnomer

is that these guys are just basketball. of all players. I think they're... You missed your calling because really 20 years ago is when you could have had the most impact. Thanks, Bill. With the Kenny Anderson. I came in here on my third night birthday feeling good. I definitely missed my peeve. It's going to time machine. You could have

think of all the careers you could have potentially helped. All those dudes from the 90s that got way too much money too soon, the jailblazers, all those teams, Spreewell. That league was crazy back then. The league was so normal now. It's almost boring. People like Westbrook. Westbrook I'm mad at the officials

after the post game. It's like That was like a one out of a hundred. Kyrie gave a hand gesture to a racist Philly fan. It's like this isn't news. I mean, can you imagine going back to the that's why the 30 for 30s were the best thing of all time. Like the one first of all, did you see the clip of Isaiah

choking assistant coach? Have you ever seen that? Isaiah Thomas, yeah. Oh yeah. I never saw that. So the other day I'm like this is the greatest thing ever. He's bleeding from the eye. Like that era, I miss it. I don't like the everything's a 30 minute review, is it a flagrant? Like back then, if somebody died,

they're going to look at it later on. That's the only way. They're going to play through it. So I miss those days. The stakes are higher now. Yeah. Especially with social media and everything. Like, you know, like, Dremont and Bradley Bale had,

I didn't want to call it a fight. They kind of danced and they fell into the crowd. Yeah, I don't think if they squared up, Bradley would take it the same way. Like, he had a good head start from behind. I'm going to bet on Jemond against just about anybody in a real fight.

I caught a game. I caught a cab to a game with Draymond one time. Yeah. One of my best stories. What's here? Well, I was headed to Miami Heat Chapel. And Draymond, I guess he just missed the team bus. I think he might have been a rookie or a year after.

And I was like, dude, you're going to the game? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, you missed the bus. He's like, yeah, I'm going to drive bus. I said, I'm going to the chapel. Got the cab. I told the driver, I was like, hey, take us to American Airlines. 25 minutes later, I'm like, where are you going, man?

He's like, American Airlines. terminal. I'm like, no. Right. Arena. Oh, God. Went over the media. We booked it there. And I think we just made it.

And I don't think anybody really knew. You don't think anybody knew? Nope. I think that Draymond had that rep. He's going to get here. He's going to be on time. And it was just really, it was funny. He's the one I worry about as much as I like him.

You can't control him. If you've seen the guys try to control him and he's losing it, he's not having it. Like even KD, all the guys will run over. I think his mom, if she was in like, his eye vision, maybe she could control him. But when he gets going, yeah. It's the same dynamic you have, like if you have the family,

the one member of the family who after two glasses of wine might start crossing lines at Thanksgiving and everybody's like, uh-oh. Too vulnerable. Yeah, uh-oh, oh. Auntie looks like she's getting in. Hold on. Hold on.

We got to change the subject. Take her drink. It's that same kind of nervous. kind of vibe that that whole team gets when Draymond Mount Draymond is about to start bubbling you can just see it and it's honestly the one thing that can that can submarine them if if he can't figure out how to channel that stuff better I this is one of the few sports talk radio arguments that I actually don't poo poo right because that team on paper should beat anybody the one thing that can fuck them up is Draymond and and whether if he just keeps going off the

reservation at some point there becomes real costs i think that honestly golden state the only they have to keep it they have to keep it interesting and so stuff like that they lose games here and there draymond but when they have to lock in i don't think it's going to even be close right people are saying that about the calves but i actually think i'll gamble on lebron he i don't think he's going to go down easy i'm not worried about the cats i would game on them making about four more trades true but jr shooting what 27 percent he's going to catch fire at some point. Like literally catch fire?

No, he's going to start hitting threes. Okay. I love J.R. is one of my favorite guys. Jayr's pouting. He's pouting. He doesn't like the Dwayne Wade thing. They're a classic chemistry gone wrong experiment. I watched them and it's like...

Did anyone think that wasn't going to happen? J.R.'s mad. They signed Dwayne Wade. Tristan Thompson's mad. He's not starting. Kevin loves mad because they try to trade him all summer. Derek Rose is mad because he's not used to having the ball. Dwayne Wade's mad because he's Dwayne Wade. Now he's going to come off the bench.

It's like it's all the checkpoints for this is bad. You know what? They gambled on LeBron, the gatekeeper. They're like, we can get all these groceries and LeBron's going to cook something. And it's not a bad gamble. He's done it before. This is the toughest batch of groceries though, no doubt. Well, and it's also, the league is, it's just harder to turn it on and off because of the way people play basketball.

When you have, this is why the Celtics. are so sneaky good right now because they're really, they really play hard and they're good at defending threes. Yeah, and everybody's firing up 33s a game. You can't get lazy on defense anymore because of the math of it. If you're not running out on shooters, you're going to give up like a 15 to one run all of a sudden.

The essence of defense, though, is not looking cool. The biggest problem in the NBA is everybody wants to be cool. So when you see teams that are really, like, Marcus Smart, is that your guy in Boston? I mean, he's not only, he's our guy in Boston, but he's also my guy. He's your guy. So the way he plays D, you know, guys today, it's not very cool, right?

To lock up, it's not cool. You want to, like, you know, saunter down the court. And when you see teams that are winning, they're closing out, they're doing stuff that nobody wants to do. That to me is everything. I think it's... That's why I like my dude, Frankie Smokes. I got...

Now that you said it, I'm going to give it a fair shake. Frankie smokes these up. Do you, would you agree with me on this? Do you think that no one in the NBA has actually committed a foul in the last seven years? It's the most annoying thing because what happens is refs. to build up this lack of tolerance for guys. And towards the middle of the year, I always tell guys once in a while,

try to tell the ref it was a good call. Just try it. Kobe was great at that. Every play you never foul anybody? Every play? It's like everybody complains. After a while, refs are like,

they just lose it, they just start calling the worst fouls. But do you agree that no one's ever committed a foul? When was the last time you saw a guy go, B, good call, sir. If you do that twice to a ref, it's going to go well before you late in the fourth. But if you have been cussing them out all game and you've clearly walked or you've clearly killed a guy, just once in a while, it actually endears you to everybody.

We do that to the refs and my daughter's club soccer. Yeah? We'll yell at them once in a while, but when they make a good call or even if it's a good call against us. But good call, ref. That was a hard one. You got to butter them up. I joined the coaching staff of my son's flag football team after two losses, took over the offense, installed a run and shoot. Yeah.

Blew the team out. I also accused the refs of being high because I'm not sure this one guy was even watching the game. I'm like, bro, you're getting paid 20 bucks for this hour. Right. You need to just focus over here. I've never had as much fun as I'm having helping coach my son's team, though. We're doing exotic blitzes. We're doing bounties.

I got video game bounties. You score. You're looking at an Xbox card $50. Oh, my God. This is like the next grade sports scandal. It's amazing. And they don't miss. I mean, we're doing straight up.

We went from having a really vanilla defense to exotic corner blitzes. I mean, stifling the other team. And I'm proud of it. And we're not out there to have. How old are these kids? Eight years old. My son, Roman, aka White Odell, aka White Lightning, he will be, I always say, son, you're going to be the next white cornerback.

Now, we realize, since Jason Seahorn, this hasn't happened, but you're going to be the guy. So he has in his mind that he's going to be a white skill position. Like McCaffrey, I'm really proud of that. I don't, I think that maybe Roman can be in that, in that vein. He's got giant, next Jason Seahorn. He's got one to be the next Jason Seahorn. I just know that Jason Seahorn made it possible to believe that my son can come out of the hood of New Jersey and be a D.B. Running a four two.

One of my friends, Prince Amookamura, who is like fast wounded. That's how fast he is. I had him try to teach Roman some moves and he's just, he's too cute, too funny. He's got giant glasses, headband. 17 different wristbands, great cleats, tied up his little jersey, you know, like, he's ready to roll. Was this harder or less hard than doing the Breakfast Club? This was one of the highlights of my life, and that might seem weird to people, but this is awesome. I love your show.

I think it's really cool. You had a pastor. I don't know if you have another one. What question didn't I ask that I should have asked? We didn't really get deep religious. Well, I mean, I think this is. Dude, do like a three minutes spiel, end it. You got to think about...

Just do your three minutes. What are you living for? I'm giving you three minutes right now. I'm giving it. Motivate my listeners right now. They're in the car. They're on the treadmill. Like, make them rethink their life right now.

You got a purpose. You need to figure out who gave you the purpose. You need to figure out what legacy you're going to leave. What people are going to say about you when you're gone. We're recording this a day after 26 people were murdered going to church. Not a single person in that church. woke up that day thinking that they were going to stand you know on the door of eternity and I think when you start thinking about life from that angle that we

don't have a tomorrow that's promised that maybe these little moments matter more than they do I think it changes what you live for and it changes why you live and so the purpose of my life is to remind people that there is a God he did create you you do have a purpose and don't let weird religion stop you from a relationship with God that's the number one problem in cities like this is people People have been to weird church, heard a weird thing, and now they've shut off from maybe the most important thing in life. So keep your heart open, try to figure out who made you why you're here and live for that purpose, and you'll never work another day in your life. What did you say my religious strategy is?

I told you. I said, I believe that everybody has a different God or whatever. I say, you said there was a term for that. I mean, everybody believes in something. Someone would call you a universalist. Okay. Explain what a universalist is? leads to heaven. Your faith is okay. My faith is okay. At the end of the day, they all lead to the

same place. It's inherently false because my God says that this place is different. You know, Muslim says this is different. So a lot of people, it's cool for you, Carl. I got my faith, you got your faith, and I always say faith in what? Right. I'm a man of faith. Faith in what? Faith in faith is called insanity. You have to have faith in something. So when you answer these questions, I think there's peace that you can find in this life you can't get from a better job or a new track, you've got to live for something more. So, but how do you stay tolerant of all faiths when you feel that way? Well, I, you know, I believe that Jesus would have, you know, set a course for us to be able

to disagree without disparagement. Yeah. To have discourse without disrespect. And so why am I, why would I be threatened by your different faith? Either I'm right and you're going to change or you're right and I'm going to change. Either way we win. So for me, my belief that Jesus is the only way doesn't mean that your way. I can't listen to and I can't get to know.

We both agree that the triangle off that sucks. We agree on so much. We agree that we could run a hell of an NBA franchise. At the rate the NBA is going, don't roll it out with some of the people that are running these teams. If you keep succeeding, you and Gary Vee can combine forces and buy a team. What's Gary V? I know that name. He's an incredible motivational guy, but he has a dream to buy the jets. The Jets?

Yeah. So, I mean. Not many people dream to buy the jets. Today is a position move for me because when you do buy a team, I put my hand up to be the equipment manager and you're always going to be short gear. I'm going to make you the 15th band. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm ready.

Just being like, JR, why are you upset? You want to ring. Come off the bench. Dwayne Wade's one of the best two guards of all time. It's fine. You're still going to get your six threes a game. Come on, buddy. Be with us.

We need you. I predict that J.R. is going to catch fire soon, and we're going to love it. What would you say to Markell Fultz? I would say, I want to know what happened to his shoulder. I don't know what happened. Or if anything happened. I would say don't play until your shoulder's perfect.

Doesn't sound like he has the right people around him. At all. At all. We say that. We know this to be sure. I think he needs one person that he could trust around him. Markle, do what's best for you. Don't play with one arm.

It's a long career. That's what we'd say to him. Yeah, especially all the ex-exam. expectations. Yeah. Do you? There's video him shooting left-handed threes.

It's not right. On the internet this morning. It's not right. What the hell's going on? They traded two massive assets for him. They also picked up JJ Redick, who I think is the best. Just shout out to JJ for no reason. Okay.

Embed? Hilarious. I've got to know him a little bit. He's hysterical. It sounds like you should just line up with one team. One of these owners should just be like, we're just, we're taking Pastor Carl. We're preventing all the other teams from using this great resource.

I'm open to it. I'm a Knicks, Nets guy right now. I'm sure Dolan will figure it out. Dolan's listening. James, if you've made it this far. I'm the guy that we always bump into each other in the hallway, sir. They've good chemistry to Knicks, though, this year. Better?

Yeah, I've been impressed. I was impressed by the reactions on the bench, how much it like Porzingis. My guy Courtney Lee. It's one of my guys. Courtney Lee, they have a lot of good team guys. They don't really have any cancer dudes. Nope. Not sure what Joachim Noah is doing lately.

He's chilling. You know, he's... He's chilling out. He's just being... You can see him on the street in New York, just walking. You're like, there's Noah. There he is. Seems like a really good guy.

How about setting a pick? I wish he didn't get hurt because he was a beast. He was awesome. I voted for him on my baby. He also has opposite rotation on the ball, which is very hard to do on purpose. All right. All right. On the moment.

It's out right now. I love it if you check it out. Thank you, Pastor Carl. Thank you, Pastor Bill.