The Ringer NBA Show - Bill Simmons on LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Offseason Moves, and NBA Draft Advice (Ep. 126)

Episode Date: June 15, 2017

Bill Simmons is joined by Chris Ryan to discuss the similarities and differences between LeBron James's and Kevin Durant's decisions to leave their first NBA teams (2:07). Later they talk offseason trades and the NBA draft (37:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer MBA show. It is brought to you by Seekek. That is the presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons podcast. The easiest way to shop for the best tickets, thanks to their revolutionary grading system. Everything fully guaranteed. Buy and sell tickets and two taps. Right now, my listeners get $10 off baseball tickets. The first time they use Seekekek.

She's promo code BSMLB. Download the Seatkeek app today or go right to Seatkeek.com. And if you missed my podcast this week, talk to Finals MVP Kevin Durant, taped it one day after the Warriors won game five. Right now we're going to talk to the ringers, Chris Ryan, and maybe some other people. Let's do this. All right, we're here. Chris Ryan.

What's going on, Bill? Long time, no talk. I've seen you forever. I miss you while you were in flyer states. I know. I was traveling around, doing weird stuff. So the finals is over. And there's literally a flyby, as you say.

Finals is over. They're having the parade right now. Dremont is a sweet spot. I like when the finals. I don't like when the finals is. early but I also like when the finals ends early because we have like a nice week to tackle rumors, get ready for the draft. There's probably a correlation between crazy draft rumors and when the finals ends.

Like we're now we've gotten into like people are talking themselves into some wild stuff right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, KOC wrote for the ringer two days ago about he thought this draft had a chance to have some trade downs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to talk about that, but let's talk about the finals really quickly. So I did the podcast with Durant on Tuesday night at his house. What the hell is going on?

There's like helicopters circling us. I forgot to mention about what I've been up to while you've been gone. Like police officer is going to break it to our window. So I did the podcast and I've gotten this a few times from people. I saw it. There was an NBA Reddit thread about the podcast and got some emails about it. And I see the point, but I wanted to kind of dive into it. People are asking, why are you okay with KD going to the Warriors?

2016, but you weren't okay with LeBron in 2010, as if those situations were equal. I don't feel like the situations were equal, but your third party, you have no skin in the game, you don't really care, your team's Philadelphia. Yeah. Here's the thing. So LeBron in 2010, a couple differences. One is that at the time, he had a chance to be the best part of all time. He was a consecutive two-time MVP.

He was from Ohio. He had been on a team that had come close to winning in 2009 in 2010. In the last two games of the Boston series, he had two of the strangest games. Really, anybody could remember from a great player. So that's what started it. It took off his jersey after game six. Then we head into the offseason. He's kind of non-committal about what he's going to do.

He does the decision and breaks up with Cleveland on TV. and goes to Miami, has Wade and Bosch. Wade is the other best player in the Eastern Conference. They have these, basically they're building a super team. They do the press conference after. Not one, not two, not three, not four. Pep rally, yeah. And also went to Miami, which was just,

I think all of us felt like either staying Cleveland tried to build something or go to New York. And I was probably a little too angry about at the time, but I really felt like it was just such a bizarre move to me. Everything about it was bizarre from the playoffs. on through the thing and I just couldn't I couldn't wrap my head around it what was your reaction seven years ago do you remember yeah I mean I remember being dumbfounded at the spectacle of it it's it's sort of strange to remember that that happened this decade doesn't it feel like we've

aged like 50 years probably like in one year it feels that way but it was kind of the beginning of basketball Twitter too yeah I think like you're just following stuff waiting to see and just everybody having an opinion about it I think of it almost more than its importance because obviously the Heat won two championships and then he left. So in the long tale of history, it doesn't feel like it mattered that much. Right.

As an event, it probably is the single most referenced event in basketball history that I've ever edited. Like in every blog post from Grantland through the ringer, the decision was like the most reference thing. It was always like before and BCAD after decision. Yeah. And so that's what I all,

I think it was just a profound moment for player power. for talking about what do these guys owe us? What are these guys owe fans? What are these guys owe the teams who draft them? What are these guys owe the towns that support the teams? And it was a huge moment like you're saying with basketball Twitter for like what it did to commentary. Because it really exploded this idea that like we're going to like fill in the blanks

of what we do and don't know about these people and what we think their motivations are. And why and it, you know, and then it just led to when he went back like the peak of just like following people's planes. checking people's Instagram likes and Twitter likes and seeing what kind of things that they were wearing at different points and what... Looking for little signs. Yeah. And now that's what we... We're like detectives. Yeah.

And now that happened. I just wrote something yesterday. It was just like all this stuff with like Horford and Isaiah following Gordon Hayward on Instagram. Yeah. That stuff. That was not what we were doing in 2010. You know, that was not how it was going. So it's really, it's really a watershed moment for the league. I think I would have felt differently about it if, first of all, if I felt like he left everything on the table in that Celtics game in the last two Celtics games.

Now, maybe the moment was too much for him because you saw in the next year in the finals, he also melted down the Dallas thing. Maybe there was some stuff he had to work through psychologically as a player, like to just be able to channel the moment and kind of get better than not worse. There are a lot of things that are, I think that the KD's decision in a lot of ways, I don't feel this way, but I think you could be, have a lot more ill will towards what Katie did than what LeBron did. Because in some ways, going to Miami, like, LeBron was building something too. Like, you know, I know that. He's building something from scratch, but he had two of the best 10 players in the league. Whereas Katie was joining something.

Yeah. You know what I mean? That's rhetorical. But I do think that it's interesting to think about how what was similar about the two things, both in the public declarations, but it's also like young guys who go to one team outside of a major market. You know, so Bron goes to Cleveland, Katie, one year of Texas goes to Oklahoma, basically has their college experience at their first team. And then... In a tiny town where they're megastars.

And then both are beloved, like, beloved players. Like, nobody... One of the things is so bizarre about, like, a lot of what Katie talks about now about people hating him and... It almost is like those guys needed an extra level of motivation or a second act in their career. I need to become the villain because just being beloved is not enough. Or they never expected to become the villain. And once they felt that he- Durant knew.

Durant knew it. I honestly don't think Durant knew is going to be as bad as it was. I think he knew he was going to take some hits. I didn't think he realized. I think he was probably naive about it. Do you think that the reaction to this warrior super team is in any way, like the way that we reacted to the 2010-11 heat? Because I feel like that was like such a spectacle. And when they went nine and eight, people were like, this is amazing.

People were obsessed with those guys losing. Like every night they played it was like must-see television because it was like, are they going to lose again? Is it going to be close? Like every other team was gunning for them in a way that I don't feel like teams were playing at the Warriors. Yeah. I think the way LeBron handled it, really shaded how I felt about the whole thing. And if he had done a couple of things differently,

I think I also just personally, you know, 2010, I was probably at a different place of my career a little bit. Like I'm writing from the fans' perspective. I hadn't talked to that many people who are in the league. And over the next five years from doing countdown, from just hustling a little bit, trying to talk to more people,

started to try to see things better from the player side. So I wonder, like, if Durant had done what he did in 2010, that probably would have been harder on them. Yeah. But for me, the LeBron thing still came down to two things. What happened in those last two Boston games? And then why are you doing this to Cleveland in this way?

Those to me are those two things, Durant really didn't handle his business that way. Durant in the Golden State Series, which they should have won. And they probably should have won the title last year if Clay doesn't go off. But I thought he played the best two-way basketball I'd ever seen him play. And I really did feel like, even though he didn't shoot that great the last couple of games, I felt like he did everything he could. And then after the season, you know, was more respectful of the process. If he had handled it like LeBron did and just melted down the last two games

and then had this public spectacle and picked another team, like, I wouldn't have reacted well to that. Yeah. I mean, I think also that what happened the first year in Miami, losing to a Dallas team that a lot of people really liked, you know, because they had so many fun characters. on. They're getting to see Dirk and Tyson Chandler and for a lot of people, like, my age watching Jason Kidd finally get one

was like a big deal. And then Miami blowing it in game two. They're up 15 or whatever was. Like the fake, they make you put of dirt being sick. They just seem like... They get one off of Oklahoma, which is a classic like Oklahoma

just like got there too early or like and you felt like maybe this is going to be great. We have this young team of Oklahoma is going to play against Miami over the next five years. But the reason why I think people look more kindly back on LeBron stuff now is because of how competitive the league felt. Yeah.

Because Miami brought the best out of San Antonio. And those two San Antonio series were so great. And that, you know, people were, you were talking the other day, I think, to KD. Yeah, I think you were talking to KD where you're like, that's the best offense I've ever seen two teams play in a finals. They bring it out of each other. The first, there was some Miami San Antonio games where I was just like, this is like, this is like here in punk rock for the first time. I can't believe what these two teams are doing. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm with you. So, all right, let's look at the Durant situation. The best case for LeBron leaving is that they continually put the wrong people around him. And, you know, they had their first chance, I think, was 06, where they spent a lot of money on Larry Hughes and Ilgoskis. And they kind of went all in versus like the OKC model of let the young guys grow. Yeah. And let's, this is a six-year plan, not a, let's get good right away. So that didn't work.

Then it was like after that, just a series of home run swings at aging guys with big contracts. Like they had Serbiacs contract. They went out, remember they had Shaq, Ben Wallace. And they just added to which you had, it was like Chelsea or Real Madrid where it's like there's a new man. Like, well, Madrid as a manager now. But like every couple of, like every two seasons, there's a new coach. Yeah. So you have instability in the front office on the bench, you know what I mean?

Like constantly trying to find this right combination of fit around LeBron and felt desperate in retrospect. All that stuff feels so desperate. It was desperate for five years. And they had really bad luck because in 2009, I do believe that they were probably the best team that year because of the way he was playing. And Orlando just got hot and made a bunch of shots and they were a bad matchup at the worst possible time and it snowballed. LeBron was great in that series. 2010 they're up to 1 against the Celtics Rondo's unbelievable in game 4

and LeBron really just completely melts down in game 5 and it seems really passive and not attached to the game and I remember afterwards like I remember watching that game thinking I can't wait to hear what Barkley says afterwards because I feel like Barkley's going to be really disappointing what he just saw and they go to Barclay and this is when Barclay really had his fastball

after these games and he was just like I'm just so disappointed as somebody who carried the torch for this league for a while as somebody who loves basketball. Like I'm just really disappointed with how he played. So you have that, you're coming off that, and then the way he handled it. The Durant thing, so there's a couple of factors with Durant that I don't think people take into account fairly. And I'm not saying this to defend him.

I'm just saying this is how I saw it. I personally think he should have gone to Boston over. Golden State, not because it's my team, but just it's a good situation. It would have given him a good chance to win the finals. The Golden State thing... I'm silently slowly nodding for all of the years. No, no. Well, it's partly because I'm a Homer. But, so you started with OKC.

He signs a big extension in 2010. Or maybe 2011. Then Westbrook signs the big extension. It's the same summer they trade Hardin. Right? So they have, they lock up Durant. They lock up Westbrook. Both of whom think that Hardin's going to be there and they're going to have this young nucleus and they trade hard. I've mentioned the Harder traded a million times.

But I do think people underestimate the effect that it had on the rent because that was the first time you're like, wow, we're not putting the best team out there. You know? And then I think the broken foot, when he broke it, then it got re-and-and-up ended up having three surgeries on his foot. Some of the way, you know, they never used their amnesty clause. They never really spent money until the last year. when they were trying to keep them. Yeah, I think an underrated. All that stuff affected them.

I still remember when they went after Pal Gasol and they didn't get him, I think he went to Chicago. And there was like a quote from Durant that was just like, it's just really hard to convince people to come here. Yeah. Even though we've got me and Westbrook and Abaka at the time, it's just really hard to talk guys into coming to Oklahoma City. It's just a difficult thing, especially if you're pal and you've lived in Los Angeles for a long time. and he's choosing between like, you know, and he winds up going to San Antonio, but he went to San Antonio specifically because he was trying to get a ring, you know? Right.

And I think from a resources standpoint, if you look at what LeBron's situation was in 08,09 and 10, that team was spending money. Like, they were taking big contracts. And I remember that in 09, they probably should, Serbia had an expiring contract that they could have flipped for Shaq and they didn't. That was the one time I really remember them not spending as much as they could have. But OKC, you know, there's a pattern. of stuff and the way they handled Jeff Green's situation.

You know, so I just don't think it was the same situation. I think there was a distrust with the organization that you couldn't say LeBron really had because they might have been incompetent, but they were spending money in trying to win for him. Those foot injuries were probably really game changers for him for him to be like, this doesn't necessarily, I'm not guaranteed a 15 year career. Yeah. And I'm not guaranteed that I'm going to be healthy if we need. three more seasons to put something together to beat the Warriors.

And I also think that just like I was saying before, where guys that age, they go to their first pro team and that's essentially their college experience, I mean, you're really good friends with a lot of guys you went to college with. I'm actually not. I mean, I have a couple, but I'm not, I've made new friends.

And there's something in that Lee Jenkins piece that went up after the finals about, about Draymond texting LeBron, Kevin, Durant after the finals and starting the process of like kind of seducing him to come to goal state and that they the Oklahoma guys are like the tone of Durant's communication with the team changed right around that time and got more distant you know I mean that's all hearsay or like

you know maybe it isn't maybe that's the case maybe it isn't but I do think that like wanting a new set of friends wanting to hang out with different people and a new city stuff yeah I think he wanted to live in a new city which by the way LeBron did too yeah I think LeBron wanted to yeah so those reasons are even I think the difference or one of the differences is that Durant looks at that goal in state team they'll spend whatever it takes to win absolutely he knows that from that point on he at least has the right kind of resources around him really smart people who've made the right decisions over and over again really consistently well and then a younger team that's going to grow with him and this is before we get to the whole basketball

side of thing which I think is a real thing that people just discount they're looking at it like the Warriors, he's going to a 73 win team. I really feel like if I had to rank, I don't know the order, but I would say either one or two would be New City and then style of basketball. Yeah, absolutely. I think he felt like he wasn't using all of his skills and tools in playing with Oklahoma City for the last seven years, where it's basically like your turn, my turn, one on five, not a lot of movement.

you read these stories that people wrote the last couple weeks about Durant and the Warriors and how they really had to almost teach him how to move with the basketball game. And like the only fight that they had over the course season and it wasn't really much of one was Draymond basically had to go to Kevin and be like you can't stop the ball like that. And the results were dramatic. The results were dramatic and it led to him by the time the finals wrote around he was playing at a level that I just don't think he gets to in Oklahoma City. I think, and I don't think a lot of people are going to get to it because of the team they had.

I mean, removed Durant from it. There's a lot of guys who could have gone into that system. Like, Nuitzky would have been great with that system. Yeah. In that specific role where they wanted him or it's like you can shoot, move, pass. Like, it's just, it tapped into the skills that we didn't know he had. Well, this is the part where you get into the differences between those two guys as basketball players. Because I think Durant, I can, it's really hard for me to even concede.

of Durant's scoring less than 20 points a game now. Like it, I would be watching those finals games and I, I'd even do my head, you know, because you try to like build up an ankle. And you're like, oh, he's having an off night. Where's Durant? And I'm just look at the, and I look at the box. He's got 21. He's like, 21.

And they're like plus 13 with him on the floor. And he's like nine for 12. You're like, where's Durant? And that's, he's the perfect weapon and LeBron's the perfect engine. And LeBron's got to build, you've got to build a team that goes through LeBron. Durant is like the perfect tip of the spirit. for a team. Like, Durant is just always going to get his 30 points.

He's going to be an incredible defender who can guard three positions, and he can score from all over the court. But he's not going to facilitate a ton of offense. I mean, he's a good passer, but he's not going to be like Kevin's bringing the ball up. Kevin's going to find a guy cutting necessarily. He could. It's not the greatest use of him. I mean, he used it sometimes, but not.

But in that way, like, Durant is somebody who should have a system that works for his talents, whereas LeBron just is the system. what I mean? Well, and the other difference is LeBron's one of the three greatest players of all time. Like, Durant's going to be potentially one of the best 12 to 15 players of all time. And I think LeBron going to Miami, as you said, like, LeBron's LeBron wherever he, his game has evolved in some ways.

And I think he's evolved intellectually as a basketball genius, like how to affect the game, went to pick his spots. I mean like there was a the end of game five he was playing like Shaq it was incredible I know he did that was the crazy I was like this is amazing

like that was crazy it was like all right spread out I'm just gonna bully guys down and do this weird spin move and just throw it over and over again I know Golden State was probably like let just let him get it but it was still like

could the bronze score 50 a game if you just did this every time down the floor I was like watching Will Chamberlain in the 1960s he's just like get out of my way but uh But LeBron, for the most part, he's played a similar style. His stats have been the same. The consistency of his stats, like even Carl Malone was in his kid.

Every year, LeBron's like 2877, 2777, 2787 year after year. I think Durant went to another level on this team. And I wish they weren't 73 wins last year. This whole thing would have been easier if they were 58 and 24 last year. And it all happened. But anyway, if I had to do over 2010, I would have thought more about, all right, why is he doing this as a person, not a basketball player? And I don't think my brain was trained enough to think that. And then as the years go along, you get older, you're a little wiser.

But I do feel like maybe part of that in 2010 for him was like, I just want a new city. I just want to try something. I'm tired of this. I'm ready to spread my wings. I wouldn't be Miami. I discounted that in 2010. Do you think that would affect how you think about it if he leaves after next season?

If he leaves after next season, I would have a hard time dealing with that as a Cavs fan because of the rhetoric of... What if the table completely differently? What if he's like, they go to the finals again, they lose, let's say, to the Warriors. Like, the fourth matchup happens. Maybe they get mellow for love,

maybe they go back with the exact same team. Well, first of all, they spent more money. in the Warriors last year and probably this year too. Yeah, and you know what? One of the big problems with what they do is that they don't have Pat McCaw or they don't have Ian Clark, you know what I mean? Like they don't have anything coming down the pipeline where it's like, oh, maybe this guy can take 10 minutes a game and really like keep us, like, shoot well or like,

Pat McCaw was like such a flex by Steve Kerr, but it was like, that's the difference. That in a while ways is the difference. But then that you have to go back to 2014 and this wouldn't upset me as a cast fan because I won the title, but I'd be like 1% perturbed, right? The Wiggins love trade. If LeBron knows I'm going back to Cleveland, I'm here, the rest of my career. You keep Wiggins. You build slowly.

You have the Wiggins for $6 million a year. You figure you have that and Kyrie. You take your lumps at first year and you're in position now with Thompson and add one more piece. You're really going to grow something. they went the other way he's like all in early on the threesome now you're spending money on jr and he wants end of bench positions taken up by friends of his they're sending first round picks away for chaining was chaining fry first round pick i think he was yeah corber was there's one i think that this is the

big thing that c o c keeps going back to in his pieces about lebron's future is griffin at sloane talking about the protections that they put on some of those things because there just isn't for it sounds like it's a real like business deal decision right now. And for as much as it meant for Cleveland and it got the championship, I don't, he could just sign a five year, like, couldn't you just sign the five year deal and be like, this is where we're staying? He's never done that from the get-go. Yeah. Right. So I think that there is- It seems like he's leaving in a year and he's going to leave them in really bad shape, having made the finals three or four years and maybe only winning one title. I don't know. I don't know how

I feel about that. I have to think about it. The Wiggins thing's a tough one. because I think that's hindsight. I just think that that was such an obvious. No, but remember we wrote about it. I think I wrote a piece of Grantland about it. And we reviewed it. I think we've talked about it. Kev wrote about it a couple months ago.

It was the trade. I supported. I see it. But it also should have been assigned to all of us that this was maybe a short-term thing for him. Because it's so hard to build a team around those three when you have, you're dealing with so much. The best asset they would have had is that Kyrie and LeBron, but then Wiggins, for seven million a year. Now you can add another piece, you know.

If you go back to the rhetoric from 14, it really seemed like I'm coming home. This is, but he's basically, I'm coming home for four years. I wonder if he's almost looking at this. Like each trip is like a four-year college stint. Yeah. You know, and this will be his four years,

he's four years of Miami, four years in Cleveland, now four years for L.A. And you also think about the way that, the sports world, the business world, the culture world, all worlds that he's really heavily involved in, guys don't stay at CAA their whole career. Right. They don't stay at Paramount their whole career.

Like, they move on. They get new challenges. Like so much of the rhetoric about those kinds of businesses are like, you always want to look for the next big challenge. So for LeBron, if it's going to the Clippers of the Lakers or whatever, if moving to Los Angeles and like kind of seeing out the rest of his career in L.A. is what he wants to do,

that's pretty in line with what a lot of under industries, Wow. I think I was more idealistic about sports seven years ago. I think every time you take a little hit, you realize more and more. It's just like everything else. They're all wearing uniforms. Yeah. Katie goes to going state.

It's great. He's having a great time. In three years, like if Curry's ankles go and, you know, Clay Thompson ends up signing with the Lakers a year from now and Jemont's thrown out of the league for starting a ride or whatever. Katie's going to go find another team. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. And it's just the way it goes. These guys are going to go in the best. And you're right. I feel like you tapped, you were very, it was interesting when you called the house over the weekend and you were really worked up about like, I don't want to hear people complaining about the warriors because the calves blew the benefit pick. And the calves have had as many shots of the pinata as anybody to get this right. I think we have misplaced frustrations with the NBA sometimes where we're totally fine with a team just being fucking horrible for years and just reaping the benefits of these high lottery picks. And then when Golden State does everything correctly, everybody's like, oh, my, oh, it's like, well, those are they, what did they do that?

Wasn't really smart. Yeah. I mean, they really, I guess the, I was talking about how smart they were. But they also, you need luck too, right? Sure. Curry's ankles hurt so you get that lower contract. They really did try to sign Dwight Howard. They almost traded Clay Thompson for Kevin Love.

Jerry West had to throw his body in for that. The Dwight Howard thing, they were, they were in, they were done, and they ended up like they settled for. Andre Aguadala, who ends up becoming like the perfect piece. They got them in a great price. All this shit comes down. In my opinion, nobody has built a team without a couple lucky breaks. Sure. Of course.

And they definitely got a couple of them. I wonder, though, you know, all right, so they keep it together this year. Right? They're going to have their four. McCall, play more. They'll get two more David West types. And they have this super team, basically, again. but then the following year

I'm still not I wouldn't bet my life on Clay as a warrior although everything he says now is just like it's much more important to me to be part of a team like this but from their standpoint I think from Michael Thompson's standpoint

it might be a little bit more in flux but I don't know I feel like he's pretty sad A lot of money for four dudes man Yeah I mean and we have no idea what Steph's gonna get we have no idea if Katie's gonna take less

but I think if those guys go to the finals for the next five years in a new building with Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, and Draymond Green on the team. Like, Leacob's got himself to NBA Cowboys. Like, I don't know how you, you pay whatever it takes for that. I do think Durant would be my, if the MVP odds, I don't think have come out yet. I think he would be my pick for MVP next year. You think so? Yeah, because I think it's the year after this whole summer you had. It's a correction year. It's a little like the LeBron thing, right? Where that summer, like, you're in a basketball, but you're also, you're changing your life, You're making these big decisions.

I think this year he's going to take a week off. Plus, he's going to be training. The finals recalibrate the narrative. Now everybody, I think, is going to be looking at the Warriors through the lens of Durant. Whereas, like, in the beginning of the year, I think we were like, oh, that's cool.

How are they going to fit him in? And they're just moan teams down. And then we get to the middle of the year, and he got hurt, and he took, you know, he was out for most of the second half. And then he comes back and he just looks like, you know, the second best player in the league next to LeBron. In retrospect, 2010,

and knowing everything we know now. What do you think LeBron, what do you wish LeBron had done that summer? I think he's in... In retrospect. Oh, I mean, there's just nothing, there's nothing like a great Knicks team. Like if he had gone to the Knicks...

It's weird, and this is another reason. Look, I'm not perfect with my opinions. If he'd gone to the Knicks and chose them on TV, I would have been like, that makes sense. Yeah. Good job by him. If you turn around the Knicks,

that's the toughest feet. to do in sports. You know, the good and the bad. Because, like, I remember the good, which is that the only, like, cool Knicks team while I was living in New York was insanity. But the way that that felt in that city and the way that it vibrated was incredible. The bad would also be just LeBron backpitched tabloid covers. We would have so much fun with that.

It would have been unbelievable. And that was another reason I think KD, that got discounted with why I picked the Warriors where, you know, the winning team, all that stuff. But they really have a great crowd. Yeah. You know, it's a top five crowd and they have generations of fans, which I always look, the Sixers are another team like that. But when you have a team that started in the 50s or 60s, you have people like my dad as the fan who's been following them for 48 years or whatever. And you can feel that at these Golden State games.

I mean, there's a lot of money, obviously, in the first few rows. But there's also diehard fans and people wearing jerseys from 35 years ago. Yeah. And I think when you go from that to, when you go from Oklahoma City, they'll go home of city fans, great home crowd, but, you know, you go from that to the history of the Warriors. So I don't know. What team do you wish Kevin Durand had signed with in retrospect? If you could do his decision over again for him. Because I think neither of us would have wanted him to sign with OKC, right? I had I mean I wrote at the time that like I had a lot of like emotional investment in him and Russ and that Thunder team despite all efforts to somewhat dismantle them so seen and I just think that they were a Clay Thompson like Clay Thompson hot street going to and probably winning the finals yeah and my favorite thing in the world was the last few few years was when you know the thunder would play like the spurs and if like

man, the Spurs are so good. The Spurs play. And then that first moment where you realize, oh, the Thunder are going to wipe them out because they're just so long, athletic and fast that no matter how many cool cuts and double screens, the Spurs run, like, they just can't get around these guys. And that feeling of just like,

this is just this amazing group of guys who are so athletic and so complimentary to each other, and they all came up together. That was like a really cool moment, but I understand why it couldn't keep going. I mean, it's just like, it was probably doomed back at the Hardin Trade, like you said. I refuse to be a Philadelphia

and he says, I think the grant should have gone to Boston. So I'm just not, if you're waiting for me to say that, I'm not going to do it. It wouldn't have brought him any closer to the title. I mean, if his goal was to win the title, he should have stayed in OKC for one more year. And I do think, you know, with all this stuff, it's amazing to me in the course of my history, how much luck plays a factor and stuff, right?

Like, if the Warriors just win that game, he can't go there. That looks terrible. He's just joining the champs. And then he basically, I would guess he would have stayed in OKC for maybe one more year with an opt-out after the year and run it back one more time. Because the thing with the Warriors, just by the sheer fluke of the salary cap, which many people have talked about, because it jumped during this one summer. Right. This was his one year that he could have gone on the Warriors.

It was like either do it now or never or it can never happen because they're going to play part of the reason why he did it. And that's why he did it. I think if that dynamic wasn't in play, he waits a year and tries to be. beat them one more time and then maybe he goes but he didn't have a choice i almost feel like if they had played again in the western conference finals this year and then he went it would have been more sad oh yeah because the thunder had that mixed bag of like every year it was like russ is hurt or kd is hurt or abaca gets hurt it was always like there's something that was kind of affecting them in the playoffs yeah so if they had played them to a t bad juju yeah it's something they really did every

it was like 13 russ got hurt 14 i went actually i went actually I watched the game six again, the OT game against the spurs that they lost. They had four guys. Derek Fisher, like, you know, was playing crunch time and perk had no points. They, it was a four-man team. One of the four was Reggie Jackson, who's not even good, you know? I think the problem with, you know, one of the major issues with these guys, like the top, top, top part of the league, if they leave as free agents, you know, we saw what happened with the Carmelo thing where, you know, I don't know. that he was never on their level probably

in terms of being so close to taking you to the finals. Denver was pretty fun, but they weren't gonna... But it's like he obviously can't trade one of those guys, but that was sort of, you know, last summer when we were going,

we were really losing it about trying to figure out Russell Westbrook trade destinations. I think the problem is that when those guys leave in free agency, it really does leave those franchises in a ditch. Because they've been building

like their cap space situation is entirely built around competing for a title now. It's like if LeBron leaves Cleveland, they're so screwed. Oh my God. Well, but they're added to it would be, hey, he brought you a title. That's why he can leave, I guess. Right. Right. And they have options.

Kevin Love has trade value. Yeah. They have the Kyrie card to play if they wanted to. I don't think they would. But it's not, Tristan Thompson is trade value. Sure. Like, I'm sure they could trade Tristan Thompson for Carmelo right now. Right. I don't know if that's the right move for them. If you were an OKC fan,

what would make you the most mad that Durant went to the Warriors or something else? I can't imagine anything that would make me more mad than Durant going to the Warriors. Does Oklahoma have any rivals? I would be obsessed with the Hardin trade.

I would never have gotten over that. You haven't gotten over it. I'm not even OKC fan. I never got over it. You know, man. They showed... But how does Hardin play the way he plays now with Russell? It probably doesn't.

It was just for what they got for him. The trade itself, the timing of the trade. trade the fact that they didn't have to trade him when they did and what they got for him but they had this they showed him in the final i forget where i saw this maybe it was on the jumbotron they showed kd hugging his or merr sports center one of those they showed kd hugging his mom after 2012 he's crying yeah harden walked by him and i was like i fucking it's just amazing that him harden and westbrook are on the same team hardin's going to be the number two pick for mvp right westbrook's going to win the MVP and durrance the finals MVP who just played you know one of the

best finals anybody's played. I know. Somewhere San Presti is. But yet, San Presti doesn't take shit for this. It's amazing.

I just think there's so many mitigating factors that go into. I mean, the hard and trade still isn't... I can't believe

we're talking about the hard and trade. I know. But you could argue it's the biggest moment of this century from a roster move

standpoint. Right. That decision had the most impact of anything that's happened as even more than the decision.

Yeah. Yeah. It set off so many so many ripples in so many different directions. And I don't know. Like somebody was asking me if a five-man team you had picked to beat the Warriors right now.

You could have any five players in basketball. Who aren't on the Warriors? Who aren't on the Warriors. So you would start with Hardin and Westbrook? I asked this to House on the podcast Saturday. No, the team I picked didn't have Hardin or Westbrook. Oh. Because if I had to beat them, I took Kyrie, I took LeBron,

Davis Kauai and somebody else I can't remember but it wasn't I was like I don't need Hardin Nor Westbrook and those guys now

are so used to having the ball all the time I don't know if I can beat the Warriors that way so how does it was Yonis Jarebko that was the first that was the last guy

but he's going to be afraid of it yeah hit some big shots how does this affect how you feel about this summer for the Celtics and this idea of building for 2018

versus building for 2021. I would not build for 2018. Right. I'm in the camp of assets. Just build assets. I think they should sign Hayward. I would be interested in a scenario where they signed Hayward and Blake Griffin.

If you're going to do that, maybe now you make a run. Can they pull that off? They'd have to get rid of Bradley and Crowder and like the Rozier contract. It's not inconceivable. Both guys would have to take a little less. But, you know, they have to look at this now. Like, if LeBron's really leaving in a year, who are they competing against in the East?

It's your team? It's Washington, yeah. Washington, who's really handicapped from a sourer standpoint. They have to run back the team that they have as much as they can. Yeah. Yeah, or maybe after next year they could stretch Jan Mahimni. Right. And try to carve out enough cap space to get boogie.

It's conceivable. with the stretch is like I think you could stretch somebody out for five years so it's 32 million a year stretch it out so it would be like 6 million a year that that would but they can't pay out of order

if they think they're going to get somebody next year I think they're going to be stuck with the team they have Milwaukee is in this place now not much different than New Orleans where they have this awesome guy they have another piece that's dicey in this case

Jabari who's coming off his second knee injury they don't really have anybody else you would say like that's somebody like they have a couple nice players they still need to get them a second star I think that a healthy Jabari Middleton and Janus

and it's not enough it's not enough but it's pretty good we've really abandoned the idea of being pretty good in the NBA it's so it's really like everybody's allergic to pretty good and I get it I mean you watch what you watch in the final as I understand, but I would love pretty good soon. On the way to great, but I would love pretty good.

What do you want your team to do? I really want us to take Malik Munk. And I know that that's, we would be overpaying for him at three. And this kind of gets back to trading down. I know that they are trying, you know, there's a lot of talk about the Sixers with the Kings five and ten. If I was the Kings, like, I would just have any 215 area code numbers blocked. If the Kings trade five and ten for three, they might have to take control of the team.

Yeah. Adam Silver might have to, like what they do. at the Pelicans. I think you'd have to do three and something else probably for five and ten, right? Yeah. I would sure hope so. Yeah. That's way too much.

I don't think I just, Monk is an off ball score. I just watched footage of him draining threes at the Sixers workout. I know it's just like if you told me that he would be even just like not as quite as good as Bradley Beale, but pretty good. Yeah. I'd be pretty into that. Especially given like what's, the Sixers have like a weird setup next year with Ben being this primary ball handler.

And we still don't even know what kind of NBA player is. Some guys are like he's going to shoot 5% from outside of the... The guys played 28 basketball games in two years. And Embedes played, I think, 30. Come to Philadelphia.

You won't have to play much basketball. You don't actually... You just look good on paper. Yeah, we have great orthopedic surgeons. The funny thing is like if they turned... See, I would go the other way. If... I still feel like there's a Philly Boston trade

that could work. So there's... Like if you go and get Fultz, and you're just like, we're just going to, we have all these assets, we've grabbed all these picks, and we're just going all in. We think Fultz. Now, maybe they don't think Faults is that great. But if they think Faults is like the guy, if he's six foot four Tracy McGrady and you can add him with Simmons and Embed, then it's like who the fuck even cares who else is in the team? You have like three awesome young guys. Right.

Maybe they don't feel that way about them. But it does feel like there's something. If they're staying, if they're not getting up to go for faults, I would just, I would just, if Monk seems like the perfect fit for that team, and I cannot actually remember the last time we drafted a guy for fit. Not usually when you're the top of the first round, you're not drafting for fit. But we've always done BPA. We've always been like, yeah, whatever, just bring another guy, like another center and whoever the project is. And I just would love a guy who drains threes. Like he was hitting threes at the Sixers workout.

I swear to God, the nets were like rock hard stiff because no one had made a three. In that gym Since like It's like ketchup coming out of the net It's a true holiday Got traded Hey quickly Wanted to mention

On Spotify You can listen to Bill Simmons Podcasts to watch With Chris Ryan A bunch of other podcasts From the Ringer family On Spotify The streaming service

That you know And you love for music Only now it's fully loaded With podcasts You can find our Ringer pods In the podcast section Within the browse tab

When you're using Spotify and mobile Or just by searching for the Bill Simmons podcast, the ringer NBA show, whatever. While you're there, click to follow us to have our new episodes delivered right to your Spotify library. Head to Spotify.com slash podcasts for more. We're on Spotify.

That's pretty cool. Yeah. So what's funny about this draft, the Lakers should take Lanzo, and I think they probably will if I had to bet my life on it. And I think Lanzo is the second best point in the draft. I still don't understand how him and D'Angelo Russell will make any sense together, but they'll probably end up taking him. And then you have the Sixers that I don't know what they want.

I don't know what they need. I guess you need a scoring guard. The Sixers are in a pretty good position to get a very good player and then regret it in five years when the guy who they got picked after him is. So when Josh Jackson is the next Quai Leonard or, you know, or we take Jackson and we take Jackson and Malik Monk turns into Clay Thompson. You take Josh Jackson and he has a whole bunch of personal issues. Yeah. I mean. Josh Jackson's kind of the could haunt you.

matter what direction you're involved with him. Or John and Isaac turns into this incredible, like, two-way player, you know? That's, I think the Celtics are fans of his. Yeah. But not at number one. Right. I don't know what the Celtics are up to because I really do feel like they're hoping somebody overpays for the pick. For the one. Yeah. They had that, I felt like the romance was very hot and heavy with Markell to start with. I think it's still there. I think it's a fine. Shone and the banners, all that. And now in the last, I think O'Connor was saying the last 10 or something. Fault hasn't like retweeted or done anything with the Celtics, which he had been for a few minutes.

I think they're in a great spot because you always want to be there when somebody's ready to make a panic over, over trade move. Like here's 130 cents of the dollar for this pick. We're just excited for this pick. Here's a crazy offer that you eat. So they're kind of waiting for that. That's why they haven't committed to faults. Who knows? You could see.

the only team I couldn't see trading up is the sons. If the Kings offered them five and ten for one, I wouldn't do it. But you'd have a meeting about it, right? Porzengis for number one, I would do. You would do poor zingas for number one? I would. So did you see all the reports today that all these guys are going in for their next workouts are doing like up to like, it's like 45 minutes to 90 minutes of triangle?

Oh my God, there is. And it was like, Monks said that. it's like the only thing that he did there was work on the triangle. It's amazing. It's horrible. Phil Jackson is just wreaking havoc. I never know what to believe, especially with the Celtics, because stuff never leaks out with them,

but there was like Avery Bradley's Sixers stuff. And I know for a fact in February that when the Celtics were trying to get Noel, they wanted Avery Bradley for him. So we know the Sixers like them. So if there's a trade, let's say one in Avery Bradley for three in blank, what's blank? Is it the 19 pick? Is it the 19 Kings pick?

Or the 2018 Lakers pick? The unprotected one? Yeah. Would you trade three in the unprotected 18 pick for one in Bradley? I don't know if the Celtics do that. I'm not sure that's enough. And then I have to pay Bradley. A year from now.

No. You wouldn't do that. So neither of us would do that. I honestly just don't really know what to. I think everybody I've talked to says Fultz. is basically like Damiena little bit taller who can play defense. So it just sounds like a really good idea to draft him. Yeah.

But I'm just, once you get into like where you're drafting a three, you get so seduced by all these other guys. So I'm kind of like, well, like, what if? I'm asking myself all these what ifs right now. And to me, Avery Bradley doesn't really necessarily move the needle. He's really good. He is really good.

I wonder my fear with him is just his body because he always says he's banged up dumb injuries. Yeah. And if I'm Avery Bradley, like, do I really want to re-sign with the Sixers in a year anyway? So you'd have Faults, Bradley, Covington, Embed, and Simmons. That's a fun starting five.

Or I get, I have my starting lineup is Embed, Sarich, Ben, Monk, and Kyle Lowry. I don't see how you play Embed, Sarge, and Simmons together and expect to win anything. Just the way basketball is played now. The thing is that we're not going to have, like, we only get like 40 games of Embedd. So you have to plan accordingly. I don't want to, I'm going to knock on wood because I like Mbid. I want him to stay. It's not, it's not good.

The three knee surgeries already is a problem. Like I think the history of the league says this is not great. I think you have to plan hoping that he goes against it. You're hoping for it. I do. I'm not. When everybody, whenever I listen to like writes to Ricky or read like everything is planned with Embed as the center piece of the team.

And I feel like you almost have to act like that would be the icing rather than the cake is if you have Embed. And that's okay because you're never really going to get us. You don't feel the way about Simmons though. You think Simmons is back. Yeah, I think that was a fluke injury. I think he's fine. I would be fine.

What about the fact that we have no idea if he could make a shot of more than eight feet? That doesn't really bother me. Okay. That doesn't really bother me. I know that's good. I mean, I doesn't really totally bother me either because I feel like you can learn how to shoot with very few exceptions. Yeah.

That's just getting the gym and shoot every day. They're just going to like sag off him like 15 feet from the perimeter. Yeah. But yeah, I'm okay with it. Like Westbrook was a horrendous three-point shooter and turned into a pretty good three-point shooter who made tough threes. Simmons has that LeBron quality of like having, he has passing lanes that nobody else has because of his size and speed.

Now maybe not as good as LeBron, obviously. but when you watch how in that first warrior spurs game how the spurs were like shutting down all of Curry's driving kicks because they just like jumped the angles and stopped all those kickouts you can't do that against LeBron and I think ideally you wouldn't be able to do that against Simmons the problem is Sixers don't have anybody who can shoot except for like Bob Covington Covington you signed for next year I really like Covington so he can be traded now with that contract I don't think they want to trade him.

They love him. Would you trade Covington 3 and Sarge for one? Yeah. You would? I think so. How? Now we're talking. Now we're at the table.

I like both Sarge and Covington. Covington is a guy to me that I could see either those. Why would you do that? I don't know. I'm just trying to figure out what the value is of both sides. I really like Coventon. I mean, could Covington have played in the finals? Yeah.

I think he could have. Yeah. Richard Jefferson played in the finals. Could he have played 25 minutes in the finals? Yes. Yeah. Could Sarach have played in the finals? I feel like certain matchups, yes.

Could you've gotten Kevin Love's minutes in the finals? Sarge had like a real nice flat track bully period there where I wasn't. I'm not sure how many teams he was playing against were actually trying to play. Yeah. Like that was down like. True. Yeah, he was in like the Cancun tankablusa. Yeah.

Tankapalooza stretch of things. But I love Dario. If you, out of the top eight, What would be your pick to be the bust? It's a fun question. I don't want to say. I don't want to say Frankie Smokes. No, Frankie Smokes.

Frankie Nicotine isn't. Marlboro Man? No, he said Marlboro Man is that type eight. Yeah, you know. My top three. I think Isaac just because Isaac's not going to be a bust, but Isaac has a hip and a foot, which are like never the greatest signs.

And it's also like he's got a lot of like, have to teach him how to play basketball stuff. going. And his, yeah, it's not like his team was unbelievable last year. I would have him as my fourth choice. I think Dennis Smith would be one. Yeah, but Dennis Smith also could be the best player in the draft. Well, that's what's great about him, though.

He could end up being, you know, Kyrie Irving. Dennis Smith said all the stuff you want to hear after a workout, like when he went to the Lakers workout and just destroyed guys. Yeah. And he was like, I'm a dog. You should draft me. Right. I love when the guy, usually, what's the success rate of guys that do that?

It's usually pretty high. But it's, I love it, though. He sounds like a walk-on. It's just like... Josh Jackson's another one. Like, I think he's slightly risky because some of the stuff that happened. Tatum, just because his game isn't...

His game is not... I'm in on Tatum. I think he's Danny Granger. Danny Granger is really good. What's Danny Granger today? Put up 25 points a game. Yeah, but back when... Went toe to toe with LeBron and he got hurt.

Yeah. He would have had a great career. We could have been a Hall of Famer. If Mitch Richman's in the Hall of Fame, Dan Granger got in there. It's one of the best small... forwards what else what other NBA things oh I want to ask about something yeah talk to me about this clippers thing which part so I we wrote something today about it but we were talking last night

about how this feels like the first this is like balmer taking over the team for the first time so it comes in there's a lot of that I think he realizes now that the buzz on doc is just too terrible yeah and it just feels like that between the stadium and the west thing and the and the and If it's the same setup, and you'd have to imagine West wouldn't leave unless it was the same setup. The setup in Golden State was West reported to Lake, not to Bob Myers. Yeah. So I would imagine that West is reporting a Balmer instead of Rivers. Doc's not going to like it.

Right. And then even though Jerry West is really good at talent evaluation and the Clippers only picks, it might be the kind of guy who comes in and is just like, look, you're not running things right here. And there's just some things you have to change about this team if you want it to be sustainable. But it felt like the last couple of days where like the first big Balmers taken over the Clippers days. I was glad Walsh talked about Blake going to the Celtics possibly. Yeah.

Which I had talked about last week on the pot of Blake was like the hitting giant or free agency. Everybody was like Gordon Hayward, Gordon Hayward. It's like Blake's a free agent too and Blake was the third best player in the league two years ago. He's also had a lot of surgeries and he's super risky. And I don't know if he could even get a four-year contract. Maybe he can. But I think there's a real chance he could leave.

And they, and Bombers now trying to. to show the optics of no I know there's a problem I'm trying to fix it let's we're gonna things are be different this year and he's trying to to show that I still think Blake could leave Chris can't leave right because you just basically had the CBA written yeah it's too much money for the exact reason for him to get like a contract like he's about to get Blake's gonna opt out and then you know the clippers will offer him whatever he wants but I don't think it can't be what as big as the Chris deal right no So I never rule out Miami with the stuff.

I think Boston and Miami are positioned the best. I think Blake makes a ton of sense for Miami, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, are you kidding? He makes sense for either team. He'd be great with Boston, too. I can't wait to see the Miami Medical Department. Oh, yeah, the Miami Medical staff, getting a hold of Blake finally.

But like Whiteside, Blake, Justice Winslow, all their swing dudes. The best player in the world, James Johnson, Drogich. You forgot best player in the world, Dionne Waiters. Best player in the world, Diem Waders. That's a really fun team. Yeah. Just as basketball fans, Blake going there would be fun. I think Boston would be a strange.

Does that Miami team if LeBron? Does that Miami team in top three if that's their team? Is that top three in the East? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I still feel like Durant if he had gone to Miami last year. There's two teams Miami could have gone or three teams. Boston, Washington, Miami.

Durant had gone there to any of those teams. Like, if you've gone to Washington, that team might have, I don't know, they could have made the finals. Yeah, I think with Miami, too, it's like Spolster is one of those guys who's now proven what a good coach he is. And Durant said that to me during the second pod we did. He was talking about how much respect he had for Miami and Spolster and it. I think within the league, that's a real thing. I think the players respect Golden State, Miami, and Boston as the organizations that know what they're doing, that the teams are well coached.

And San Antonio. Yeah, they don't even count. Just the fact that the Chris Paul stuff is even out there is a test of that. Yeah, and I think Utah's climbing up the ladder too, which will be, that's the best reason for Hayward to stay. It's a really well-coached team that's well-run, that's made a bunch of smart decisions, you know? I would put them in the top five. I don't, is there any other team you would even say, like, from the outside you go, that's a well-run team. Those guys know what they're doing.

No. You know? That's the top five. Yeah. The clippers are not in the top five. And the Jerry West thing, I think, is the start of a bunch of chess pieces. There's a bunch of places that are attractive to play. There are a bunch of places that if you have the right combination,

like there's a fan base there that's like incredible bowls, blazers. You know, like if you got it right, you would have like a sleeping giant on your hands. So if Blake says, I'll resign, but I want the max. And the fit five years. And I want a no trade clause. Do you do it? That's why it's going to be so interesting over the next five or six weeks.

I'll do it. I'll take the money. I want a no trade clause for the 15% trade kicker if you trade. And what if the clippers say no to the trade clause? I think he leaves. He leaves $45 million on the table? If Blake doesn't ask for a no trade clause,

he's being represented by fools because if you're the clippers, the number one movie do is you lock Blake up and then in December you start shopping them if it's not working out. So he's got to, even if you did a no trade clause for the first two years or whatever,

like you got to protect yourself. If I were him, I would go to Miami. We were talking about this yesterday. One of the underrated storylines is because Drew Holiday is getting linked heavily with Dallas. And if the Pelicans... And if the...

And if Pelicans lose Drew, like just how screwed they are. I mean, they're screwed anyway, but... That's the story... How quickly the big guys in New Orleans become going to play if that happens basically? I can't believe that the Davis,

that that hasn't become a fake sports story, whether the Celtics and Davis, it's just perfect if they want to make the move. And if I'm New Orleans, I would trade them right now. I never advocate trading superstars, whether it's to Boston or somebody else. But I just feel like we know how this is going to end, right?

How are they going to make that situation better? It's probably the height of in a weird way, like a team like New Orleans, from what I understand about like the, I'm sure they have like a really like passionate fan base, but it's a pretty small one. So it's like if you traded Anthony Davis, it would be like, you know, you lost Chris Paul. It would be like you've basically gutted the team twice in the last generation. And that would be really tough to take. But that being said, like, couldn't you, isn't this probably the best haul you could get from? It's the, it's just raiding the Boston Warchest. If they said, all right, let's say they called Boston.

They said, give us Jalen Brown, this year's Brooklyn pick, and next year's pick, and we'll give you AD. So they would have Jalen Brown, Markell Fultz, DeMarcus cousins, and next year's pick. And next year's pick. What do you do if you're Boston? If no one says, that's the price. But the Boston thing is that you have to decide whether or not you're, what are you building for then? Right. So you're going to resign Isaiah, resign Avery, go out there with.

Because also Anthony Davis is making a ton of money. now you can't go get Gordon Hayward. You'd almost have to wait until like August to do that. You sign Hayward, you get some contracts, and then you think like in December we make that trade. I don't know how it works. I don't know what New Orleans does. I mean, because I've heard that Justin Holiday is going to be like a $10 million year guy.

I really like him, by the way. I thought he was one of my favorite. And now, I mean, whenever you can get two other brothers on the same team, you get Seth Curry and Justin Holliday. How does Dallas have the cap space? for that though. They have a bunch of guys, I think. They don't have a lot on the books, really, I don't think.

They got Matthews, they have Harrison Barnes, they got dirt. So they take dirt takes less. Maybe, but after that, it's like a lot of guys like yogi and like a lot of guys like Berea, you know. Let's go. We got to go. So last fun thing. Most fun player for each team in the top eight.

If you're just doing it like, what would be the most fun situation? Oh, okay. Number one, I think faults to the Celtics makes the most sense. Who's the most fun Poir to go to the Lakers? Lanzo, right? It has to be Lanzo. Okay. Yeah, just for all of us.

Okay. Most fun player to go to the Sixers, I think you're right. I think it's Mock. I think it's Munk or Munk? Monk. I got to get this right at some point. I get emails about how I'm... People don't understand.

I have certain speech impediment names. I just can't get my name around. You're beloved. Don't worry about it. Monk. Monk. Monk. Most fun for the sons would also be Lanzo.

Yeah. I would argue to say Lanzo and Booker together is now a much it's almost like macollum and lillard on steroids like i would i would like the the jonathan isaac to the phoenix and just have nothing but like weird athletes who are like like the athlete guys who were out like out of the gym is great right fox to the kings would be great it's it feels like it's destined to happen it's just great they're in love with him he's fox and buddy a bulldog yeah six is orlando yeah dennis smith give him the car keys.

I just draft, but the most fun would also be if they, I mean, Hammond's not going to make this mistake, but if they just took like Markinen. Oh, you know, Jesus. You get Lori. Right. Seven is mini. Yeah. Can anyone shoot?

So that monk would be the best for them to. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Unless they just throw away the Chris Dunn pick and decide we want to redo on point cards and take like best point guard available. And then the Knicks. monk to the Knicks would be my favorite of anything.

But I think that they... But it feels like he's destined to go one spot before the Knicks so they can all have the Curry flashbacks and lose their minds about that. Right. Right. So fuck a curry. And then the Nix take like marketing. They're like, ah! And they just lose their minds. To Likina. And they're like, oh, no. Who's on the watch this week?

We did a show on Monday that was about Twin Peaks and stuff. And then today we had all the New Yorkers from the ringer on to recommend one thing. The New Yorkers, the New York staff. Lindsay, Cam, Donnie. Yeah. All right. Don't forget about Seekek. Go right now.

promo code BSMLB and you get $10 off baseball tickets. Seekek, the presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons podcast. And also Spotify, go to Spotify, the podcast section within the browse tab. Search for our podcast. Search for a ringer NBA show, the Bill Simmons, whatever. And follow us and you'll be able to hear us on Spotify. Thanks to nephew, Kyle, for producing. Kyle!

We have a ton, a shitload, a cornucopia of NBA content coming next week. Keep it locked. We're going to be really busy next week. Let's just say this. Kevin O'Connor's flying out. Yeah. We're going to work him like a dog. I'm going to work him like LeBron in the 2015 finals.

Kevin O'Connor's been 47 minutes a game. Only the triangle, though. We're going all out. And don't forget to check out the ringer NBA draft guide, too, because it's one of the best things we've done since we started this site. It's awesome. If you're just diving in now, I can't recommend a better place than the draft guide, John, Danny. I was always beholden to Chad's mock drafts for years and years and years and I still love them.

I would put our draft guide against anything out there and the expertise and just all the stuff. It's always changing constantly. It's really great stuff. They're all fighting about Tatum. Yeah. Yeah, where does that stay in now? That's coming next week. Is there the three wise men are having a breakup over Tatum.

Who's Danny's favorite foreigner now? I think it's Frankie. I think he likes Frankie smokes. Yeah. So we've gone for calling Frankie Nicotine and Frankie Smokes. I like Frankie Smokes. I like the Marlboro Man. I know that that might be, I don't know if that breaks some ethical boundary to advertise a cigarette.

But yeah. Not for me. Yeah. It just feels like he goes to Dallas, followed by Cuban just leaking stuff out. We think this is the best prospect we've ever seen. Yeah. because you know a lot of that. Nobody knows.

Nobody knows what's going on. Chris Ryan, thanks so much.