The Ringer NBA Show - Blazing-hot Blazers, the Lakers’ Latest Run, and March Madness Prospects | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 223)

Episode Date: March 6, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor discuss the Portland Trail Blazers’ impressive late-season run (3:08), the questions surrounding Kawhi Leonard and the Spurs (9:47), the rapidly improving Lakers (20:23), the coach-GM conundrum as it relates to the Detroit Pistons’ struggles (28:01), regular-season award predictions (38:30), and draft prospects to watch for during March Madness (48:57). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.a. Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Moddle. Kevin. Vernon, you got me hungry. I walked in here. I heard you on House of Carves with Joe House.

Hmm, sound good. I want some fried chicken now. We've got to get you trying Gus's fried chicken, which has a location in Los Angeles, I am told, before we get to anything. Do you know what I'm going to bring up, Kevin? And it's not the NBA. I have no idea. It's that video with that girl from The Bachelor that you filmed.

What did you think of the video? I've never even noticed that I get the green bubble with you. And she's dead right about that. Yeah. You with your phone and the fact that it comes up green, something that you have gotten away with with me that I haven't even, it didn't even, I don't know, it didn't even register with me. And yet there it was when she was saying that, I thought, now this, this is sage advice.

For somebody who doesn't know, you filmed the video, what was her name from The Bachelor? Becca Martinez. Becca Martinez. And then in the course of she was giving you tips on your Instagram, and one of the things she brought up during the course of it was what type of phone you had. And she said that this is a big problem. Then, in fact, if you got a Samsung Galaxy S6, to be clear. But if you got a girl's number and you texted her, the fact that it would come up green would be an immediate red flag. And I thought, wow, wow.

I don't know if that's the primary problem, but it could be one of them. I'm just saying you've got to do everything to help yourself out, Ken. Especially being in L.A. now. It's the best advice I think I ever received. Thank you, Becca. Shout out to her. Something I would have never thought of prior to. But that was not that, hey, Lizzie, beauty may be on the inside, but you will be immediately disqualified from pretty girls with the green bubble.

That's what I gathered from her. I just need somebody that also has a Samsung, I suppose. That's going to be a light field to pick from, Keff. Get with the times, my brother. I don't know, man. I didn't know that on Tinder, they could know if you have a Samsung or an iPhone. Haven't had much luck there either. Oh, really?

Who doesn't have luck at Tinder? I'm going to avoid this. We didn't know. You're not avoiding it now. I'll do another ringer NBA after dark episode. Man, we need to. And in fact, well, listen, for those of you that wondered what happened to last week's episode, the whole damn thing was about Tinder, and so they wouldn't even run it. We brought on everybody from the staff to chat.

We brought on everybody from the staff, and it was all about the, last week is the lost tape just in case that anybody wondered what happened. We had some technical difficulties and were unable to post it. last week. We do have this week's show, though, and there is some interesting stuff going on. Not the least of which, Kevin, is when we wake up this morning on Tuesday morning, I never in a million years would have fathomed that we would be talking about the Houston Rockets being in first and the Warriors being in second. Those make sense. The three seed in the Western Conference as of this morning is the Portland Trailblazers, who have now won seven in a row and nine

of their last 10. And by the way, the four seed is New Orleans. Unbelievable. What is going on? And yet, when you look at the standings, Portland still only has a three-game lead on the Clippers who are in the nine spot and a four-game lead over the jazz and the 10 spot. It's still that tight.

But with Portland, Chris, we had something on the ringer.com today about which team in that three-to-ten range has the best chance to take down the rockets of the warriors. And I chose the thunder. Haley O'Shaughnessy chose the Blazers. The Blazers would have been like certainly one of my top two choices. And the reason why is as we saw last night, Damien Lillard can just go off at any time to either bring your team back in a game

or keep them in it or to extend the lead. And C.G. McCollum was capable of that too. He's been extraordinary for the Blazers over this stretch. And we did not get a very good, we didn't get a good read on them last year, right? Because of the NERCatch injury. You know, they closed the season rather strong last. year. But then he got injured, and so we didn't get to see them at least full strength in the sense that what they looked like the last 20, 30 games. And then we came into this season,

and we were like, ah, well, that was probably just a mirage, right? They're pretty good. They're, they're, you know, they're over 500 team, more than likely a playoff team with some outstanding players in their back court. But when we thought last year, hey, they've been playing as good to basketball as anyone for the last 30 games of the season, possibly. And then we didn't get to see that version of them in the playoffs. We didn't know if over the course of a full season, if it would all shake out the same way. And then here they are again with 20, right? I guess they've played 50, I'm sorry, they played 64 games.

So they got 18 games left. 18 games left in the season. And, I mean, they're chugging right along again, nine of their last 10, seven wins in a row, and they look much like last year, like there's something to be dealt with. Well, they certainly have, and it's not just DAME, and it's not just C.J. McCollum, either. They're getting contributions from other guys. The rookie center, Zach Collins, has stepped up in recent weeks after getting off to a slow start to the season. Last time, he didn't do a lot of four files and nine minutes, but over this win streak and over this kind of last couple of

weeks, he's been really good. Shabazz Napier has turned into a competent backup point card for them. Pat Connton continuing to chug along, being a good floor spacer off their bench, they have depth on that team, both in the starting lineup and on the bench. So I think they're the type of team, look, Houston and Golden State are far and away the favorites. But if you are looking for a team that, you know, hey, they get a shot, you know, they could pull it out. Portland's one of those teams. They might not continue this win streak through the end of the season. But I do think that they are certainly going to be one of those teams that's going to make a little bit of noise in the playoffs. We break ways on this. I don't find them over the course of a seven-game

series. I mean, I still think San Antonio, Minnesota, Oklahoma City are teams that I would want to see less. What about with like, let's say Kauai comes back in late March. I mean, how confident can you really feel that he's going to be Kauai? Same with, same with Jimi on the Wolves. I mean, we can't feel confident about either of those, but I mean, I have to at least project. But you've still put them ahead of Portland, like in terms of playoff power rankings or whatever. Yes, given what they have been through over the court. Well, and the other thing is, with Minnesota, you're talking about a team that I think can play the different kinds of ways. I do wonder about Portland. See, with the best teams, with Houston and Golden State, you're going

to have to make them uncomfortable. That's your only chance. If you try to play them in their range, you're dead. You can't be playing them in the 110s, the 115s, something like that. And I do feel like Portland will try to get in those, you know, we're just going to try to match the score with you. I don't know. Their defense is top 10 this year. I understand. That's good.

I understand. But I think when they get in those games, you need to be able to drag that game to where low hundreds is going to win it. That's what I think against Golden State in Houston. I don't think that you're going to be able to play high-paced games against those. And I get that their defense is good, but I also think that over the course of, you know, over the course of a series that when those teams figure it out and they get up running up and down. McCollum and Lillard want to score too. You know what I mean?

Like they're fine with getting up and down. And there may be a couple of games in the course of a series where they're able to do it. I just think, you know, you look at when, like let's just say Houston, right? So Portland played Houston in early December and they lost 124 to 117, right? Yeah. Right? I mean, that's not, they played them in January, and they lost 121 to 112, right? Like, these are the type of things that cannot take place.

That's my opinion, right? You can't be playing them in that range. What you've got to do is try to get those games lower, which is easier said than done, for sure, right? But, like, I don't think that once those scores get up there, 124 to 117 and 121 to 12 and these kind of scores, I think that, I don't know. I'd rather have a Spurs team that is willing to play you and slow that game down or a Minnesota team that is willing to play you and slow that game down. That's the tough part with those teams, though. The Spurs' best defender, Kauai Leonard, is out. The Wolf's best defender, Jimmy Butler, is out.

And then Andre Robertson, on the Thunder, their best defender is out for the rest of the season. So, I mean, even with those three teams where perhaps on paper, when healthy, you put them ahead of Portland, they don't have their best guy on. defense. So I agree to an extent with what you're saying, like, you need to have the defense kind of drag the opponent down, but those teams are missing their guys right now. And we don't know. Jimmy Butler, they said out indefinitely. So we don't know when he'll be back. Robertson, we knows out for the rest of the season. And Kauai, to be frank, didn't look great earlier in the season when he was back. Well, I'll tell you this. I watched the Spurs last night. You know, I just figured, all right, this is blown out proportion. Yeah, they're three and seven, but, you know,

Alder just had the ankle thing and whatever. It's not like that has made some kind of You know, it's interesting that we're bringing up, like, injuries now regarding the Spurs, as if that's ever had some significant impact on their success or failure over the course of the years. There was something off with them, though, when I watched them last night. There was something off, and I know that, you know, they had moved to the Dejante Murray in the starting lineup, and then that's kind of had, I think, you know, it started off pretty well, and then maybe more lately it's had mixed results. Pop pulled him early in the game last night. and then even at the end of the game, in the end, it was still Tony Parker closing things out for them. And that was against a Grizzlies team that lost 13 in a row.

And they needed every bit of Tony Parker to get that thing done. Obviously, they had blown the lead over the weekend in short form to the Lakers. Prior to that, they had gotten beat by New Orleans on their home court. I mean, you were talking about, you know, if they lose that game to the Grizzlies last night, they're losing three straight home games, which hasn't happened in forever. So, I don't know, something, it might just be the malaise of the season, that it's, you know, a veteran team and it's getting later in the season.

And so, but I mean, we're going to get a good view of them Thursday night. They are playing at Golden State. And then at Oklahoma City on Saturday, then at Houston on Monday, and then they get another game against all three of those teams over the course of the rest of the season. Two games against the Wizards. Their schedule's really hard coming up. Listen, Kev, you're talking about with San Antonio. I mean, we said that Portland's right now, three, New Orleans is four, but everything's kind of bunched up.

You know, they're three and seven in their last 10 games, as we mentioned, and we just said they're playing at Golden State. They're playing at Oklahoma City. They're playing at Houston. If you hit a three-game losing streak here, you're in danger of being on the outside looking in in this playoff race. Because right now, the Spurs are the five-seat. They're two games ahead of the Clippers. They're three games ahead of the Jazz. And then after that Houston game, you get a game against Orlando, but then you get New Orleans, Minnesota, Golden State, Washington, Utah, Milwaukee, Washington, Oklahoma City, Houston, Los Angeles Clippers, Los Angeles Lakers, Portland Trailblazers, Sacramento, New Orleans.

There's a lot of tough games over that stretch for San Antonio. And I mean, this is something I'll be writing about on Thursday on the ringer where San Antonio, they've gotten through this before, right? Like people have said they've been done, right? People said that back in the early 2010s that San Antonio's done. I mean, they could get out of this. But they're in an interesting spot, Chris. They could be in danger of missing the playoffs. And then with all the stuff of Kauai, the age of a lot of the guys on their team,

the upcoming free agencies of a bunch of others, they're really at a crossroads right now. And they don't have a lot of young assets on the team aside from DeJante Murray where the decisions that they make over this coming summer, really over the next 18 months or so, the next two off seasons, are going to decide the way they look for the next decade. The Kauai Leonard situation, and especially with the story that came out earlier this week,

about the negotiations with Brand Jordan, is just like everything about his whole season has been strange. You're talking about a guy that's been in the top, you know, three or four in MVP voting the last couple of years. And then a few years back, won a finals MVP, and was considered by everybody to be one of the top five players in the league and possibly the best two-way player. And then you have like all the stories have been like negative this year. You got the stuff coming out.

You got, you know, Popovich obviously goading him by coming out publicly. I don't know if you read that follow-up article to that. Or no, it wasn't a follow-up article. I heard Adrian Wojianowski say this. And he said he was giving insight to you. Remember when Popovich came out and said, I don't expect to have him back? this year. Yes.

He said that press conference was for an audience of one. And I was like, oh boy. So it was what I thought it was, right? Which is we're attempting to send a message. We're going to let the free world know that you're choosing not to play basketball. It's not because you can't. And then you got all this Jordan stuff going on with the brand joint. I mean, they just, it feels like they just started promoting him with the Kauai, though.

And like, it was just becoming something. And so, who knows, there's something, there's something real that is there, that is going on with him and that franchise that is very hard to figure out. And maybe him personally. It's like we discussed back in January, Chris, when the news first broke, there was a rift between the Spurs and Kauai. And we chatted about how, you know, I heard rumblings that, that it was because of the injury and how it was being handled. San Antonio felt one way. Kauai felt one way about it. Kauai in his circle felt another way. And that turned out to be true. The other part that I heard from

the same person at the time was there's something, you know, it's unclear what? With the shoe company or the inner circle and, you know, him want, you know, there was the talk about him wanting out. And it's like, well, why? And with the report this week that he wants a $20 million deal in the range of like the top end players, maybe the shoe company doesn't want to give that to him. And the reason why they want to give that is because he's a quiet guy in a small market, right, where his stardom doesn't transcend the market. Like Russell Westbrook, Russell Westbrook transcends Oklahoma City. Kauai Leonard doesn't in San Antonio. So whether Kauai wants out or not, who knows? I mean, that's impossible to say. And even if he does within this moment, it doesn't mean he would a week from

now. You can't ride that wave all the time. But the fact is, is there's something weird happening, Whether it's with Kauai or people around him that maybe they feel like a player of his quality should have a bigger name nationally. I don't know. There's a lot of factors. It's a really weird situation. I'm not sure exactly what's happening, but everything seems to be pointing in the same direction, that's for sure. Yeah, he is also not a big individual highlight guy, right? No.

And we can act like this stuff doesn't matter, but just take a week ago. when that James Hardin thing happens, everybody sees that. Everybody. Everybody sees that, right? When he drops West Johnson and he's staring him down, it is unavoidable, right? And like you think about guys throughout the league, there's a lot of really outstanding players, but like they don't have these viral moments and what, and they're not on House of Highlights all the time and whatever else. And so while people all respect Kauai Leonard,

and think he's fantastic in terms of the big highlights or the things that now gain the most amount of popularity, he's not there. And the other thing is, yes, we know less about him than anybody else. And he shows less personality than anybody else. And that goes into buying somebody's product. It just does, right?

And while we might not have not known everything personally about Michael Jordan, we certainly were able to gather what we thought about him with his flair during the games and then at, you know, the intensity of which he played with. Whereas Kauai Leonard, like, if you ask people to do imitations of him, like people don't even know what his voice. People don't even know what his voice sounds like. You know what they don't even know what his voice sounds like. That's a hard sell, I think. I had an agent say to me, and this is more of a general thing, not about Kauai.

It was just a general statement. Let me make that clear. He said he's represented a lot. of clients in his time and he said what people think of them is not necessarily what they are. And with Kauai, like you said, we don't know a lot about him. And that doesn't mean that we can put this person, we can install this personality. There's a quiet guy that's always about the team and he is, right? He has been. But that doesn't mean maybe on the inside he doesn't want to go out there and score 33 points a game because he feels like he's capable. Maybe he wants to be a guy

that puts up 22 shots somewhere to see if he can reach another level. Maybe he wants that. And I wouldn't knock him for it if that's what he wants. I hope it happens in San Antonio. I think it would be amazing. It's reminiscent of a guy like Marvin Harrison, right, in the NFL. He put up amazing numbers. Everybody thinks of Marvin Harrison is one of the great receivers ever, right? And yet, we know nothing.

I mean, unfortunately, we know about the post-career. We do know all of that. The quiet guy very well may be the most dangerous. But that being said, the guy that has the flare or played in a big, market, you would rather have your product endorsed by, say, Odell Buckham Jr., whereas O'Dell Buckham Jr. may not have the career or the seasons that Marvin Harrison had, right? For sure. When you look at the end, but there is certainly something different about that when you're

talking about a sellable entity. But the whole thing's weird. The whole thing is weird. You know, it would be hilarious as if, like, Kauai, like, went to L.A. and New York, and, like, all of a sudden he was, like, Mr. Personality. Right? He was doing, like, commercials. Remember when he first started having commercials and people like,

like, oh, wow, Kauai has sponsors. Kauai has commercials. Nobody says to any other player. Nobody. I did say it about Kauai. Wow, Kauai's in commercials now. Oh, that's cool. He's showing his personality.

It's like, yeah, he has a personality just like every other human being on planet earth. We just haven't seen it for what, I mean, he's a different type of guy, obviously. I think that was kind of apparent prior to the draft. But the fact is, is that it doesn't mean that he might not want other things in his career. That's for sure. All right, Kav, we'll get to it right after this. First, a word from our sponsors. March is here, which means one thing.

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Don't miss out on March Madness. Get your bracket in before the games tip off on March 15th. Build your own bracket now at Yahoo.com slash Turney 2018. The other thing is we've got these crazy win streets going on, Kev, right? Houston's won 15 in a row, Golden States won five, Portland's one seven, the Pelicans have won eight, and so with these teams winning... Raptors are four. Yeah.

Well, the team's winning at these excessive rates every single night. Like, if you lose, you could very well be dropping all the way down in the standing. Oh, there's one other win streak, too, Chris. You missed it. Oh, I did? The Grizzlies have a 14-game win streak right now. How dare you? It's the truth.

How dare you? Every loss is a win. It's the truth. You know, this makes Adam Silver cringe. I pulled up ESPN's like standings page today. And, you know, they've got like all their tabs on the NBA. There is a, I had never seen it until this morning. There is a tab on there that says tank race.

I see it right now. Yeah. There is literally a tab that says tank race. That is amazing. Tank race. I mean, you got damn near a third of the league not putting forth their best effort. It's preposterous. That is funny.

You have 22 teams that are attempting to win and jockey for position in the playoffs. And then you have eight that just couldn't care less and are actually fighting for the bottom. 64% odds that have top three pick, Chris. You should be feeling really good right now. I should. Yes, feeling great. Unbelievable. Should be on top of the world.

Last night's win for the Grizzlies is remarkable. Listen, I come to my non-excitment honest. Let me just explain this very quickly. So about a week ago, I had what would be called the talk with my son. And this was not a talk about sex. I was like, wait a minute. Where are you going with this? Actually, frankly, I wish I would have had that talk instead of this one.

It would have been easier for me to explain and less crushing for him. So we're outside shooting hoops and he says to me, out of nowhere as kids do, he says, who's the worst basketball player ever? And I immediately shot back Hashim the beat. And he said, who is that? And I said, he played for the Grizzlies. and he said he did? I've never heard of him.

And then he starts asking questions. I said, yeah, he's a really high draft pick for the Grizzlies, and he was just awful, just awful. He's not in the NBA anymore, William. That's what I told him. He said, when was he drafted? And I said, right behind Blake Griffin. He was drafted number two.

And he said, he's drafted number two? He said, well, who was drafted behind him? And I was like, James Harden, Steph Curry, Ricky Rubio, Tyreek Evans. And his response was, oh, my God. And I said, yeah, oh, my God. And he said, James Hardin and Steph Curry could be Grizzlies. And I'm telling you, Kevin, the look of horror slash disgust on this child's face.

And so then go in, Grizzlies are getting beat 60 to 30 by the Boston Celtics in the second quarter. And I then have to have this subject, you know, I can then say, hey, this isn't all bad. You know, they're going to get a high draft pick. But that's a conversation that I can't have at that moment because I have just explained to him. Because the last time that they got a super high pick, they literally took the worst basketball player in the world. So at least I'd come by this honest. So I hope everybody out there is rooting for my sake, at least, that this is worth it in the end. Because I have certainly, not only have I been through it where it wasn't worth it, it wasn't close to worth it.

It was the worst possible outcome. It is like, you know, people like, when they're little, they get bit by a huge dog, and for the rest of their life, they're spooked by dogs, right? Yeah. Because they had this horrible thing happen to them. That's me. When it comes to tanking for draft picks, I'm the guy that got bit by the huge dog. Right?

So get the frigging away from me. Get this tanking away from me. I want no part of it. When William asks that, who's the worst player to make over 20 million dollars? in the NBA. What's your answer going to be for that? Oh. How dare you?

How dare you? How dare you? Because you've also been bit by the free agency dog, too. I mean, this is... I just don't want anything anymore. This is really rough. The fact that I don't hate the NBA by now,

he's unbelievable. I know. All I do is get bit by big dogs. Oh, And over and over and over again. You've just been mauled by Grizzlies. Like Leonora. Yeah, that's what's happened to me.

All right. So, hey, we mentioned Portland. Let's touch on a couple of these other things. Portland got their win with a huge fourth quarter, which they needed in order to beat the Lakers, who were on a five-game winning streak before last night. And it really feels like Lonzo has been figuring it out. Certainly, since he has come back from the knee injury,

he has been a different player, Kevin. Hell yeah, baby. Looking good. he's looking really good. I think all the bus talk has quickly faded away. Even last night, even last night he hit some big shots again. Right.

He did hit some big shots again. And he, but the big thing is the threes. Like he is now shooting confidently and putting weirdly, and again, the sample size is so insanely small. But the back court with him and Isaiah in it at the same time has worked and has not been ridiculous defensively,

which is kind of shocking to me. I would not have suspected that Lonzo and Isaiah would be a decent pairing together necessarily, right? Yet it has been pretty good when you look at the numbers. It actually been really good when you look at the numbers. It just depends on how much stock you want to put in it. So you have Isaiah Thomas, Lonzo Ball, and Brandon Engram Granted, he's going to miss a week with a hip injury. Those three guys can all handle the ball. They can all make plays off the dribble.

They can all create for themselves. They can all create for others. And it looks really good on the court for the Lakers. It's looked great the past couple weeks ever since they got IT and Ingram has taken control and Lonzo got back. It looked really good. What happens when you insert LeBron in Isaiah's place? I'm just saying it's a perfect fit.

It's a perfect fit. Oh, stop. For Move IT who still isn't really that great right now, he's scoring it efficiently, and plug in a superstar, they could be really good really soon. And the reason why is because of the development of Lonzo Ball and Brennan Engram. Both of those guys have looked great the past couple weeks. Don't you think if LeBron makes it to the finals, he'll stay and leave one?

I don't know. Why would you come west? Seriously. More to game. I don't think there is. You're in the finals every friggin' year. You've got to win a series. But, yes, you're in the finals every year, but you're losing in the finals every year.

And like with Michael Jordan, nobody knocks Michael Jordan for the series that he misses the finals, but everybody knocks LeBron when he loses in the finals. Everybody knocks Tom Brady for losing three Super Bowls. Everybody knocks the person for losing in the big game, but not for not getting there. I don't even think he'd get to the finals in the West. I think he could. I really do. I really do. But your beloved Houston team wouldn't be able to beat him?

I don't know. I think if you add LeBron and let's just say Paul George to another year, another year of development to Lonzo Ball and Brandon Ingram. And then every veteran. You didn't say Paul George, too. Well, you said LeBron with all these young guys. Of course you need more than just LeBron. Right. But all the youth on that team and then every veteran would want to flock there.

I don't know. If it's not Cleveland, L.A. just feels like a no-brainer to me, to be honest with you. All right. We also need to mention, in the Eastern Conference, it appears as if the eight teams are going to be the eight teams. Now, Milwaukee, which could be a very dangerous eight seed, is now the eight seed, as the standings are today. But again, all of this is extremely fluid. But there is a big separation, whereas there are 10 teams fighting for eight spots in the Western Conference. it would take, certainly the Pistons or the Hornets would have to start winning big and start winning quickly.

Like you're talking winning eight of ten games in order to get themselves back in the mix to be able to fight for that last playoff spot. The way they have both played recently with Detroit losing eight of their last 10 and even worse than that, and the Hornets now losing three games in a row, it does not appear that that would be on the horizon, that they were going to. suddenly turn it around and go eight and two over their next 10 games. So the big one is right there on the outside, which is Detroit. And they made the biggest splash, I think is fair to say, outside of Cleveland,

redoing their entire roster. The biggest splash, certainly in terms of name, was the Blake Griffin deal that Detroit made. And in the end, they were, oh, I don't want to say really good, but they were pretty good with Reggie, like, is it possible that Reggie Jackson is literally that important to that team? And sometimes it's not necessarily the quality of the player, but rather the extreme nature of the drop-off, right? So it's not that you don't have Reggie Jackson as much as what you do have in his place, which is, you're right, lifelong journeyman is Smith or whoever it may be, having to man that position. But it has been a disaster.

And Stan Van Gundy, I think, would certainly be pretty high on the list of guys that wakes up in the morning and would be worried whether or not they're going to be doing that same job that they're doing next year, right? For sure. No doubt. They took the ultimate gamble, taking on Blake Griffin with a billion dollars left on his contracts and an endless list of injuries. Everybody knew it was a risk when they did it. and maybe it'll work out, but it does not look good. Oh, boy.

Hold on now. Putting this all at the feet of Blake Griffin is not necessarily fair. By the way, I hate with the fires of seven hells that I've somehow become a Blake Griffin defender. Trust me. I hate this.

It's not all on Blake at all, but he hasn't been good. He just hasn't. He's shooting 29% from 3, 45% from 2 point range. He hasn't been Blake Griffin, the superstar in L.A. He's been, there's no doubt about that.

Blake Griffin, the above average to good sometimes. I agree. Overpaid guy on Detroit. That's what he's become. That's kind of sad in a way. But here's what I'll say. So they played a game at Cleveland last night, right? This is their starting lineup.

Is Smith, James Ennis, Reggie Bullock, Blake Griffin, and Andre Drummond. Off the bench was Eric Moreland, Anthony Tolliver, Stanley Johnson. I mean, what is this? You know what I'm saying? Langston Galloway. Like, what are you expecting?

I mean, you start is Smith, James N, and Reggie Bullock. So forgive me if I'm not necessarily, right, Blake Griffin sucks, right? I mean, I get it. He's not having a good year, but you are many times a reflection of who you are playing with. And that is because you are going to get, who else would you even, I mean, give a shit about on that? Like, who are you worried about scoring? Seriously, he is the only. guy in that starting lineup that you would even care about if you're a defense.

What do you worry? You worry to- It's rough. It's Smith, Andre Drummond, James Ennis, and Reggie Bullock? When you read off the names, it's like, oh, wow, the Pistons have 29 wins. They're 20-win team when you just read the names out like that. That starting lineup is an outreach. You know what I mean? And to be fair, they're missing a couple guys.

They're missing Reggie Jackson and John Lur. So they're missing a couple of guys. I'm not sure that would propel them into playoffs, but they're missing a couple of guys. I do kind of wonder, too, if this is one of the things that stood out to me. If Stan Van is one of the guys that gets, you know, his heads on the chopping block, right?

You are now moving into a era where, and we have seen it happen with general managers and guys that run teams, but also with coaching and the last of the guys that, like, they ain't trying to listen to what you got to say, right? They're not, all of these, and especially now with so many young owners,

they want everybody to be pulling the same rope. They want to, you know, arm in arm, walk out of the room and everybody be on the same page. And then there are the defiant ones, right? Like the Stan Van Gundy, like let's just let me coach my team, shut up, leave me alone, right? And many times you've got to put, them as running everything, which they did, which now they're taken away. Same with Doc, right? These

old school guys, they don't want to, they don't want a boss. They don't want anybody telling them what to do. Like, leave me alone, man, let me run this. You want me, let me run everything. And I wonder if, like, that will signify the end of that, right? I mean, you got these guys that are like, you know, your elder statesman, like the Popovic's and the Carlisles or whatever else. Tibbs in Minnesota, like, said that I can't show too. But by the way, but by the way, runs everything, right? Yep. And I wonder if that is going to be,

if we've seen the last of that. Because we have seen now, we'll see what happens with the Tibbs stuff, but we have seen Doc Rivers get that title taken away, and we have seen Stan Van Gundy get that title taken away. And so is there ever going to be a time where somebody is now desired so much that they could come in and say,

Yeah, I'll take your job, but I want to run everything. Boudinholzer got his taken away too, right? For sure, yeah, another one. So we had Doc Stan, Boodenholzer, and that was kind of the deal, right? I'll take your job, but I want to run everything. And I think we're to the point where once the Stan van stuff goes totally south, we'll probably never see that again. You agree?

I think it'll become less common. I think you can have it, but it needs, I mean, you don't know it's the right guy until you really have him in, you know, the building until he's actually running the show, but it can be effective. It can work, but you need to have a collaborative culture within the front office. There needs to be a lot of voices and there needs to be a lot of openness. There needs to be a lot of empowerment of the lower people, lower level people in the front office to feel like their opinion matters, to feel like they're valued. And when you have that, I think you have a culture where everybody's willing to speak up and everybody's willing to,

everybody feels like that their voice matters. And when you're the lead guy, whether it's Greg Popovich or Bill Belichick in the NFL, when you have that, I think that's where the best ideas come from. Well, and the greatest, I think the greatest asset to the structure of actually having a front office and then having a coach. And the coach works in conjunction and for the front office, right? He has a boss. is that when things need to change or when roster needs to change,

that sometimes the best are the guys that can adapt. And I think we have in this particular case this year, we have two great examples of that, Kevin. And those are two what would be considered more of the old school guys in Dwayne Casey and Nate McMillan. And they have altered what they have done for many years and have found great success as they have adapted. And those are great stories, right?

Whereas there's nobody to listen to if you're Stan Van Gundy, right? There's nobody to like run stuff by and say, hey, maybe we should do this or maybe we should do that or maybe we should, right? Like you want to be the guy that can't be told nothing. And I look now and I see Dwayne Casey's team is the number one seat as of this morning. And Nate McMillan's team is the number four seed as of this morning. And both of those guys changed, right, after many years of being head coaches. And I think that's the good example of working with management to the benefit of the team. By the way, even with Greg Popovich, he relinquished his role as general manager back in 2002 to R.C. Buford.

So he had that role when he first came back to the Spurs. Right. Then when he was head coach, but he gave it up in 2002. And granted, he still has a powerful voice within the front office. he gave that up to somebody else, which I think speaks to his ability to defer the decision-making responsibilities to, I guess, like I said, empowering others within the front office. Because R.C. Buford was just the head scout at the time. And he immediately elevated to the general manager.

All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. First, a word from Just for Men. For over 30 years, men have trusted just for men to provide easy gray care solutions. Now they trust just for men to provide hair regrowth solution as well. formulated with the number one dermatologist recommended ingredient proven to regrow hair. 5% monoxidil. Hair regrowth from Just for Men is an easy-to-use topical solution that's clinically proven to help regrow hair. It works by reactivating hair follicles to stimulate regrowth, perfect for men with thinning hair.

Plus, with a unique precision spray applicator, this is hair regrowth made easy. Simple spray in, sit back, move on. Because when you look as good as you feel on the inside, every date night, every meeting, every guy's night out will be something to look forward to. Start winning over thinning. Look for the one or three month supplies of hair regrowth in the shave aisle or visit jfm grow hair.com and use the promo code regrowth 25 to get 25% off your purchase. That's jfm growhair.com and use the promo code regrowth 25 for 25% off. Three fourths of the season is done. So there's about, you know, as I said, some of these teams have like 18 games left.

Some of them have 22 games left. But there's about a quarter of the season left for virtually every team. Therefore, we will make our quick predictions now on what these year-end awards are going to look like at the end. The three-quarter season awards, I think that most of these, we are going to be in lockstep and they're going to be pretty easy. The MVP, if we have to predict today, would be James Hardin. They're the number one seed. his season has been ridiculous. I think somebody tweeted this jokingly,

but I don't think it was a small thing. Remember how I was talking about the highlights and what goes viral and what is on the, was on people's minds all the time? And it might be silly, but it is true that every damn night last season, Westbrook was doing something.

Every night. And that was just not the case with Hardin. His quote, highlights are not highlights that are the things that get retweeted a million times, right? He doesn't have these viral moments all that often, but he did, and he probably had the most viral one of this entire basketball season. Seriously. It was beautiful.

It was the first thing I thought about the following morning. I think that West Johnson thing is real. Like, I think that that, the fact that that got passed around so much that that was, so somebody tweeted like, hey, was that his MVP moment? And I know it was like maybe half joking, but I kind of thought like, you know what, this kind of stuff does matter, right? It is, it is this image of this season, which is him breaking people off and staring them down and just having this dominating season. And the team, frankly, having the best record in the NBA. So we're on, we're on the same page on that, right? I don't even think anybody has a great chance at it.

Anthony Davis would be the one that could take a run I think he would need to continue playing just outrageously like Will Chamberlain and Shaq and Kevin Garnett all at the same time for him to have a chance but I don't know it's unfair to expect that this is an interesting one coach of the year

I think that if it ends up if the Raptors keep on and they win you know it's Dwayne Casey it's gotta be I'm with you I think so right I'm with you I think it's Dwayne Casey think about this they have the second best point differential in the NBA. They do.

There's is 8.6 and the Warriors is 8.5. I mean, that's incredible. That is incredible. The Raptors have a better point differential than the frigging warriors. Even like aside from the results, Casey and that coaching staff

revised the team's style of play. They're moving the ball, shooting more threes. They effectively made that change happen and the Raptors have elevated their play and we'll see how it translates on the playoffs. The other thing is, man, you watch them. He's so often,

pulls the right strings with that bench and when to leave them in. Sometimes he'll just let them close games. Yes. Because that bench is awesome. Instead of just doing the whole, oh, it's time for me to get my starters back in, if that bench is rocking and I'll be damned if more often than not they are, right? He'll just let them roll with it. And sometimes, like I said, close out games.

I think he's done a very, very good job this, Twink Casey. He's pushing the right buttons. Yeah. And I also think it would be a nice honor, considering, as you said, you do get credit for altering. You do get credit for changing what you have been. I think that signifies being a great coach. Rookie of the year.

Ben Simmons. Yeah, I had thought that Mitchell has a great shot at this. I don't know if they're going to get to the playoffs or not. And if he's a leading scorer on a team that gets to the playoffs, I think Donovan Mitchell can get the award. I still think that. I mean, he's averaging over 20 points a game, right? and he's been fantastic.

But if Simmons team is in the playoffs and as of now, that's the other thing about the Pistons sucking so bad, is that now it looks like the eight teams that are in are in. So I think I'd have to agree with you. In the end, it's going to be a historic season, the numbers that he puts up as a rookie, and his team is going to be a playoff team, which I don't know if that was necessarily a for sure case

the last time we talked about it, right? Because I talked about Simmons team might not make the playoffs, and Mitchell's team does. And if Mitchell's team does, winning is valued so much when it comes to these awards and he may get it. But Simmons team is for sure going to be in the playoffs, I think, right? So Donovan Mitchell doesn't have that over him is all I'm saying, right? Ben Simmons from day one has just been dominant for a rookie. And I think that simple as that really. Defensive player of the year.

This is tough, isn't it? I think it is tough. there's been this sentiment that it should be Kevin Durant, which would be unbelievable. I don't mean crazy like stupid. I mean crazy like unbelievable. I've heard some sentiment for Paul George, right? Some of these superstars have gotten more talk this year.

Well, Kauai's out, obviously, and Gobert missed a lot of time. My go-to is always Dremont. Yeah. If you told me pick a defender, he's still the guy I'd take. Because he, you know, because of how devastating. He can go out there and guard your point guard on the last position. possession just as well as he can guard your big guy on the last possession. This is hard, man, because with Paul George, ever since Robertson went out, George hasn't really

been elite, elite, elite defensively because he's had to play more on the ball. He's not able to be like a free safety. How about that? How about that? How about we just give it to that guy? Because I swear to God, they were like one of the best defensive teams in the world with him, and they are crap without him. It's unbelievable.

And then you get some bigs too. You got Rudy Gobert, you got Jobeard, you got Joel and Bede, you got Al Horford, you got Clint Capella. Man, I mean, I don't know who it is. Like, the guys that I have on my list, Draymond, Kevin Durant, Rudy Gobert, Joelle & Joellabee, L. Horford, Clint's Capella, Paul George. Those are the six guys that I would consider voting for.

And I don't know who it is. Here's the thing. If he would have played all the games, I think this would be the year that Gobert would get the honor. Problem is he's played 38 games, Kev. That's hard. That's hard, right? He's going to play significantly less games than everybody else.

So cross him off the list. Cross-Goberer off because of games played. Yeah, that's what you. what I'd say. And by the way, Roberson is third in the NBA and defensive real plus minus, whether or not you want to care about that or not, right? He is on that, he is on that list as a guy that has that level of impact defensively. And frankly, when I see the impact that it's had on the team when he's been out, I do kind of think you should get it. I think I'm Dremont, right? I mean, because of the versatility still. Yeah, I think the versatility, I think that

just what he brings to the table in terms of being able to guard all. everything on the court, right? He can guard everything on the court. Has he been Draymond, dream on at his best? Even if he hasn't been, maybe that's still worthy of being defensive player of the year. Yeah, I think there's some level of fatigue

when it comes to Golden State, right? I mean, come on. In what world would we not be talking about Kevin Durant being an MVP candidate? But we didn't, right? Yeah. He should be. He should be.

Or Curry, either one, right? Like there's just been some golden state fatigue, which is, you know, that's the way it goes when they're not the fun new thing. That's what the rockets are. That's what the Raptors are, right? They're Woody and these are like Buzz Light year. I look at defensive efficiency right now. Number one is Boston, two, San Antonio, three, Toronto, four, Philly, five Utah, six Golden State. So those are the top six as it stands right now.

I think the two guys that don't really get discussed enough for a defensive player of the year are. Horford and Capella. I think those two guys, they anchor two of the better defenses in the league. The Horford one is a good one. I mean, they're number one in defensive efficiency, right? And it's largely due to El Horford. I mean, you mentioned the versatility that Draymond has. Horford has that. Horford's rebounding is fairly weak. And the past couple weeks, I think his defenses slipped individually a little bit. He's still really good, but hasn't been top end guy in that end. So I don't know, man. I have a hard time with this. I really do. A defensive player of the year this year is tough. There's no, there's no clear guy that stands out except for,

like you said, Roberson. Roberson's absence really speaks to how much Oklahoma City has fallen off. Yeah, just wrecked them for sure. And it made Paul George worse too. Paul George hasn't been the same without him. That's for sure. And then, uh, most improved player, most improved is usually like somebody that's in their second year, right? That just gets a lot more minutes and so we give it to them. But the answer is Bolodipo, right? Yeah. You got turned in one of the best players in the league, for God's sakes. Yeah, it's him. It's not even close.

The shooting has fallen off the past couple months, but he's still the guy, still most improved player of the year. He's been outstanding. Yeah, I mean, everybody destroyed that trade. Everybody thought that that was bad return, right, when it came to this. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. First, a word from Black Tucks. As a married man, I go to a lot of events where I got to wear a suit or a tuxedo.

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Charks get away with some of the most outrageous stuff I've ever heard. A, I'm not a big soup guy. I've never really eaten soup. I'm like, what in the F is going on here? And then the second thing he said, and he said, isn't that a thing? Ramen noodle soup?

Ramen noodle soup? Like, what? Does he do this podcast from Mars? Like, I don't even know. What's up with Charts, man? I can't wait to. talk to him again and I'm going to be like what are you talking I have never like for all the draft analyses that you guys do and I quite enjoy it nothing will ever stand out to me more than him saying

I'm not a big soup guy I never have really eaten soup and that isn't ramen noodle soup a thing like it was like he didn't even know chicken noodle soup like I don't even know what's going on next time he's in L.A. or we're all in the same place at the same time we're going to find the best soup in whatever city we're in and we're going there and we're taking in there. Because my theory is, for whatever reason, he just hasn't had good soup. Maybe he just never had good soup in his life. It was never a choice he made going out to eat. Maybe family never made soup at home.

Here's the thing, he's not nine. You know what I'm saying? It'd be different if you were talking to a nine-year-old and it's like, hey, try something new. Oh, I never had soup. You know what I'm saying? Like, he's been around the world for like he's 30 plus. years old. Guy just got married for God's sake.

I swear to God, in all my life, I have never heard anyone say, I've never really gotten into soup. I've never really had soup. Like, of all the food, like, you could say, hey, I've never, like, if somebody told me like, you know what, I've never even had sushi or I've never had oysters or I've never had, you know, something like that, right? That is reasonable. What is unreasonable is the fact that you've never had soup.

Like, that's... It's like the most irreversal food. Like Michael Angelo like took breaks from the Sistine Chapel and ate soup. So this is a long way of saying, I don't trust any of his draft analysis anymore. I can't trust a guy that's never eaten soup. Oh my God. This is an outrage. Who are you most excited to see how they will perform during these big time conference tournaments that are going on this week?

would you peg out that you want to make sure to go out of your way to watch them in their conference tournament? I'll give you a couple for the month as a whole. Let me hear it. DeAndre 8 and the top guy, obviously, I think Jonathan Gavoni of ESPN recently bumped him up to number one on his board. And I think it's worth thinking about him within that lens, one of the top guys. Charks wrote an article today. I'm McHale Bridges from Villanova. He's a guy to watch, a junior prospect 3-and-e style guy. I'm definitely not as high on him as Charks is, but interesting guy. I'll be watching for Daniel Gaffert from Arkansas. I have mixed feelings on him.

Interesting player. How about Trayvon Duvall from Duke? Interesting point guard. All right. We have some people within the ringer's offices who think he's quite underrated, kind of an early second round pick type of guy. Those are just a handful of names thrown out there.

Jalen Brunson, also from Villanova. There's a lot. Go to Theringer.com and read our stuff. Yeah, well, now, as you know, Kevin, Like, it used to be way back when I would go through and I would look at where all these mock drafts have everybody. And what I would attempt to do is try to find the small school that had the NBA prospect on it, right? So you could find, say, a Washington state that had a guy named Clay Thompson. Or you could find what was the little school that Farid went to?

Was that Moorhead? He did go to Moorhead. Okay. Right. So what you could find over the years was sometimes if you're, could find those teams that had like an NBA caliber player on the team, then those would be good ones to find upsets for, right? And so that Moorhead team knocked off Rick Petino's Louisville team, big upset, right? And then we look up and Kenneth Verrett had a good NBA career for

sure, even though he's been in witness protection, I think, for the last three. I haven't even heard his name. But this year, there's like nobody on any of these small schools. Nobody. Like they are all piled into all the big schools now, aren't they? Like, I mean, there's the Shamit kid on Wichita, who I love. But there's just not, like the small schools don't have guys. I saw there was one from Boise State, right? Was it Hutchison? Yes.

Okay. Chandler. He's a guy that's draftable or at least projected to be in the first round. But there is no, like, guy that's at the small school. There is no Damien Lillard, right, that's at Weber State or something. Not a lot of guy. Yeah. Or even first round for that matter, right?

I mean, I think Boise was the most random of the schools. You know the guys that kind of are interesting to me? Two guys on one of the biggest name schools that really are, they're not highly touted on Kentucky. Shea Gildes, Alexander, their guard, and then Jared Vanderbilt, back up forward. All right. Both those guys are really intriguing to me, even a little bit more so than Kevin Knox, the guy. Everybody, you know, rightfully has ranked as a mid-to-late lottery pick. Shea Gilgesa Alexander,

Guard, and then Jared Vanderbilt forward. Those guys are really, really interesting to me. Obviously, both outstanding high school players and big-time recruits, as is everybody that gets a scholarship at Kentucky. Put it this way. Jared Vanderbilt's one of the weirdest players you watch. I'm not going to say anything about him.

Just watch Jared Vanderbilt. He's a weird player. Weird player, hard to figure out, but could be really good in the NBA, I think. Fair enough. Kevin, it's always fun. I'm glad that we were able to make up for last week. Me too.

That was fun. I'll have to try out the Clippers' new sponsor, Bumble, instead of Tinder. Oh, good grief. I'll have to try that out. Good luck with Bumble, Kevin, switch that phone. We'll do, Chris. Good, good chatting. It's going to do it for another Ringer NBA show.

If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you next week.