The Ringer NBA Show - Breaking Down Kevin Durant’s Ultimatum: Is Boston His Top Choice? Plus, Group Chat Etiquette.

Episode Date: August 9, 2022

This week, Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre discuss the latest news with Kevin Durant (03:40). It was reported that KD gave the Nets an ultimatum to either trade him, or keep him and fire Steve Nash and Sean Marks. They debate whether it’s just time for all parties involved to go their separate ways, before discussing team owner Joe Tsai’s tweet. Also, is KD just too good to trade (19:55)? Can any team remain a Finals contender if they are stripped of all their assets in a trade for Durant? Lastly, Ric Bucher shared a story about Ben Simmons leaving the Nets' group chat, and Wos tells us why it’s time for Adam Silver to be a leader like David Stern was (31:00). Hosts: Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre Producer: Jessie Lopez Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, it's Ariel Hawani. One third of the fastest growing show in combat sports. I'm Chuck Mindenholm. And I'm Preeti Carroll, and together we are three puck. Join us on the Spotify Live app after every UFC pay-per-view and become a part of the best community in mixed martial arts. Or if you can't make it, check out the Ringer MMA show podcast exclusively on Spotify. See you then.

Love you. Hello. And welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I am Rob Mahoney. And this is a very special non-denominational show. This is not real ones. This is not group chat. Though I am joined by one of my group chat co-hosts,

a man of many talents, a legend in his prime. Was, what's up, buddy? I'm good, man, I'm good. I'm happy to be back. It's actually been a really long time since I've been on the Ringer MBA feed or show or whatever we're calling this, talking about the NBA. So it's fun.

I'm happy to be tapping in with you enjoying the summer, honestly enjoying the quiet time. But, you know, we got some news in the recent days, so it's cool to hop on. We do, but let's get a quick snapshot. I mean, what grade are you giving

your personal offseason so far? Ooh, my personal off-season? I think Kevin Pelton would give me an A-minus, for sure. He's a stingy grade or two, Kevin Pelham. He is notoriously stingy. And the only reason, because I have done family time, I've found time for leisure,

I've done a little bit of reading, I've done a lot of stuff in the summer, but I haven't left the country. So I have to get docked some points because I've remained domestic. And so, you know, I'm sure you're seeing on your Instagram feed like mine, Greece and Italy and Istanbul and Spain

and all of this great stuff. stuff in Europe and all over the place. I unfortunately, I've not yet left the country, Rob. I mean, I am seeing those things, but I'm also seeing you staying busy too. Let's not pretend, you know, you're curled up on the couch with me, me all the time, you know. We've moved around a decent amount this summer. I will say that. I will say that.

I think the A-minus is good, though. You know, leave yourself some room for improvement for the international trip next time. You know, you've got to give yourself that thing to chase after. Absolutely. Yeah, this is like the Celtics losing, coming two games short of the finals this season. We got to build upon this and win the championship next year. I will be in I-Bethan next year. I will be fist pumping to Calvin Harris.

I promise the listeners. Well, in the present tense, I have good news and I have bad news for you, was. The bad news, Justin Barrier, our other co-host on group chat, he went to management, he told them it was either him or us. The good news is I don't know where Justin is, but we're here. So somebody made a decision on some level, right? God, shout's to management over here at the ringer. No, yeah, no, Justin is, I'm sure, enjoying his summer and working diligently.

But yeah, man, a lot of people complaining about their bosses, huh? It's a day for ultimatums, apparently. for anyone who has not been keeping up with the NBA, which I get it. Kevin Durant met with Joe Sy, the owner of the Nets in London over the weekend, according to a report from The Athletic, and KD gave the Nets an interesting ultimatum to either trade him, as he's already requested, or to fire Sean Marks and Steve Nash,

the general manager and head coach of the team. It's, I mean, a nice little development, to say the least, in terms of this Kevin Durant trade saga, not something I was necessarily expecting. How did that hit you? What did you make of this situation Durant has now put the nets in, was? You know, it came out a few weeks ago that they were going to have this meeting, you know, to basically meet face and face and have a talk about next steps forward.

I had no reason to think that anything different was going to happen. But just to bring the listeners in, if you talk to people who have been around Kevin Durant, who have a good idea about the type of cat that KD is. In the past, he's been a very malleable dude, let's say, okay? Able to change his mind, change how he feels. He's constantly evolving. That's a charitable way to put it. Some people might say he's a flip-flopper.

Some people might say, oh, he's spineless. But it depends on your reading, right? Like, he's a guy who's able to bend and change his mind. And so I think it's possible that Joe Sy was like, all right, let's take this guy's temperature in the past in Oklahoma, in Golden State. He was a guy who changed his mind. So they wanted to check that out. But there was no indication that KD was going to be backing off from his trade request.

And also, I think the shot happened when they didn't offer. for his best friend, Kyrie, a long-term deal. They wanted something with caveats, with incentives tied to playing. They didn't want to just give him his five years. Here's the most we could pay you and keep it moving. Which is what we've seen happen to superstars. Basically, since the Supermax happened, at no point has any team stood up to any superstars that said, this is what we're going to do.

And I think you're seeing why, Rob? Well, if there were ever a time to stand up to some superstars, This is certainly an interesting one because the Nets have done everything within their power organizationally to empower these guys to make them basically full partners in the decisions the organization has made to this point.

And so to say like this is where we're going to put our foot down, it's an interesting development to say the least. I wrote about this for the ringer.com today. You can read more about it there. But just the idea that what Duran is doing now, it does feel like an extension of everything he and Kyrie Irving have been doing for three years.

in terms of calling their shots, making it pretty clear what they want in this case. I guess the question is, is any of this what Kevin Durant actually wants? Does he really care if they fire those guys or not and will that impact him staying? I don't have a good read on that. I want to go back to something, though.

This is not that surprising as a sort of as a time stamp on when the Nets would decide to do this because this experiment hasn't borne any fruit. You know, like, yes, granted, KD was hurt that first year, but like, following these guys down the path of doing any and every single thing that they say every single time has gotten them nothing of any consequence. Josai has paid a lot of money and luxury tax. And not to say, I'm not feeling sorry for Josai because I don't. I don't give a fuck about that guy in his money. I'm just saying, from that perspective, you can say, I've invested in the idea of,

letting you guys have, you know, a huge outsized influence on the organization. And it's gotten me bubkus. I traded a bunch of asses for James Hardin. I got rid of Jared Allen for DeAndre. That man, he made the all-star team last year, Rob. DJ is barely holding on to a roster spot in the league at the end of somebody's bench. And they basically gave, they just gave him, like literally, we say give away all the time. They literally just like, take this fool off of our hand.

because they love, because Kyrie and Katie love DJ so much. So you do that. You fire Atkinson for a coach that Katie gave approval of. You hired a novice in Steve Nash. You bring in James Hardin, give a bunch of stuff away from him. He's ticked off because you're still kowtow in the Kyrie. Then you trade James Hardin for a dude who doesn't like to, it's just like, it's been one calamity after another rob.

this is an interesting point. I don't know. I think it makes sense. At a certain point, you take enough abuse, you break up with the person. Yeah, I mean, let's look at the final ledger here,

which is three seasons with these two guys. The Nets have won 56% of their games, which is just below the Lakers, the Grizzlies, the Raptors. That's kind of where they've been regular season-wise. They've won one playoff series

during that time. One playoff series. How you would look at this and say, I want to sign up to continue, I'm in a clean house even more than we already have to continue the Kevin Durant, Kyrie Irving experiment, because let's remember those two things are tethered together. I don't think you get Katie to stay

if you're also going to trade Kyrie Irving, so you're signing up for more of that, all to continue something that hasn't really worked. I get why the Nets signed up for this in the first place. I think if we could turn back time and do this all over again and I were the Nets, I'd probably sign up for it again, to be honest. with you. I think you're betting on

certain probabilities to break in your favor that just didn't. And maybe not betting on a global pandemic to throw just a gigantic wrench into the whole Kyrie Irving situation. But I don't know. There's not a lot of warm and fuzzies here to bank on in terms of like this is why this

is our guy and this is why we're going to bow to this particular kind of gesture from him. Yeah. And if you Joe's side, like if you have even half a spine or backbone and KD comes at you with an ultimatum. It's like, KD, where does it end?

Like, now we're firing the coach you wanted. Yeah. And Sean Marks. And again, like, you know, let's just say in some fanis, let's just say we were playing 2K, you know, and Katie got these guys fired. I'm sure the new GM would have to get KD approval. And it'd be like, oh, Kyrie, don't worry.

We'll give you your extension in January. We'll pretend this thing never happened and everything would be kumbaya. But we know that won't happen because the report comes out, even if ESPN ignored it for six hours, which is another just hilarious story that we're not allowed to get into on this show.

But the report comes out from Shams and the Athletic, and then finally Joe Syne puts out a statement about six hours later saying, I'm backing my guys, I'm backing my coach and my GM, which is basically, okay, again, KD, we'll be out of here. He's still on the market, and it's done.

Was that statement from Josiah that strong, do you think? It seemed a little tepid, you know? A little tepid. I'll put it this way, if I were Sean Marks or Steve Nash, I would want a little bit more than I support my guys. At the same time, the problem with the leverage game in trade negotiations is you don't want to be representing the idea that KD

is 100% out of here. Because if you do, that drives down to price. So it's like this weird, stupid game you have to play where it's like, we're not going to vociferously back our management here because the superstar said, gave an ultimatum.

So it's like, everybody can do that easy math. Robby means, okay. So that means Katie's out. You can't bring them back. You're back in your management. So for a guy who's already out of your door, why should we give you anything of consequence when there's no way he's coming back. So I think that's why you see

the tepid statement because it's like they can't come out and say fuck that. KB is gone and ruin the guy's value. But at the same time they have to speak up in defense of their freaking management. What a world, man. I know. Is there any part of you that takes

this demand from Durant at face value? Do you think there's any scenario in which Durant is looking at the landscape? He's saying Phoenix, you know, like I wanted to go there, but that's situation is complicated now because D'Andre Aiden got locked into his deal. Maybe staying in Brooklyn isn't the worst possibility in the world if I can get X, Y, Z. Or really, if I can get X, Y, Z fired.

I don't know how out there this has been, and aggregators please calm down. But there's been rumors out there that Rich Climand, how the Nix thing blew up, is that he was trying to make himself president of the Nix. and the KD and Kyrie to the Knicks was going to happen, but Rich Klymage is getting so fucking greedy, kind of scuttled that because he literally wanted to make himself the Knicks president. So I say all that to say,

if Joe Sauter wants to hire Rich Klyman as the president of ops over there and make him the top, you know, the top dog over there. I'm sure KD would find it in his heart to stay and they'd get Kyrie paid and all of that. But that would be ridiculous. Of course. So no, I don't see, like, I don't see this as a serious, like, KD being like, you know,

there's a realistic scenario of this thing that could happen. So let me present it to them. And if not, then I'm out. I think Katie is just like, yo, I'm done with you guys. Peace. Well, I think we have to start looking outward a little bit, right? We have to look at these other teams and say, does this change anything at all for the suns or the heat or the Celtics or any of these teams that might.

be interested in Kevin Durant. I mean, does any of this as far as the execution of how Durant has handled himself as kind of a partner in that organization and now the demands he's making? If you're one of these other teams, do you care about any of that stuff at all? Does that change how you feel about Kevin Durant at all? If I'm Boston, I certainly do. Because I've came to two wins from a championship. And my core is young, right?

Like this big owl or whatever, but like everybody else is really. reasonably young. And so I don't really, I'm not feeling the time crunch the way everybody else is. Phoenix is a different story. Like, without Chris Paul, y'all not no championship contender.

You're just not. And so your window is fairly shaky. And I can understand why you would like disregard some of that stuff. In Miami, I feel the same way. Like Pat Riley is old. And he does want to have one last hurrah. And so they seem to not be on that same type of time. I think Boston's the only

team where it's like, we've got a young core, we've got a proof of concept here in that we can be excellent with them. We've improved the roster. We made KD look bad last year. I think that doesn't get set enough. Like, they beat the guy up last year with the same team. And so I think Boston would have the most to lose by ignoring the fact that he left OKC. He went to, he voluntarily went to Golden State, hated it after, voluntarily went to Brooklyn, got every single thing he asked for. We went through the list of Atkinson and DJ and Jared Allen and James Hardin and getting James Hardin out of there.

And then bringing Kyrie back, even though they said, do you have to be vaccinated and Make an exception for Kyrie. Like, these dudes got everything they wanted. And yet still they sulk. So if you're Boston, you gotta look at that. It's like, what's the point of this? I think that's the right way to frame it. Like, in terms of what do these teams stand to lose

and kind of ordering them that way? And Boston stands to lose a lot. Clearly, they're already a really good team. And I think the other question is, does any of this, in terms of the ultimatum itself, tell us anything about Kevin Durant we didn't already know? And that feels like a no to me. Like this feels, again, like an extension of business as usual in Brooklyn.

This feels like Kevin Durant flexing the power he has been given to flex, that he has been entrusted to flex. All of this just kind of feels like a continuation of what we've already been seeing. And so I think from a personality standpoint, Kevin Durant is an interesting character to bring into your organization. You have to think about his track record now of leaving these teams in the circumstances in which he did and whether you want to potentially welcome that into your organization or not.

but I don't know. Teams are willing to welcome all kinds of people and characters for skill sets like this for one of the best players in basketball history. Yeah, I think everybody who's in the NBA, both on the management, coaching, player side or some of the most competitive people on the face of the earth

and Kevin Durant being an all-time great. If you're a competitor, you see his talent and you say, I get that in my building, I'm going to win. So I understand Boston, this isn't just some cursory glance they've given the KD thing. They're trying to do. They are very interested in potentially making this happen.

I think the KD thing, and again, y'all could do what y'all want with this. But if your team bringing him in, your biggest concern is that he's going to actually want to be there. You know, because again, if he could tell Brooklyn to go fuck off for four years left on his deal, he could tell your team the same thing with three. So you don't want to bring him in on some negative, you know, on a negative vibe, right? Like you want to get some type of assurances that this guy would want to be there. From what I understand about the Boston thing, I don't think he would have a problem going there. Y'all do with that, which y'all will.

So KD doesn't have a problem going in. It feels like Boston has a willingness to move their biggest piece, which outside of Tateau, of course, which is Jalen Brown. So I think that's something to watch. But you know, you can never count out Miami and the rest. And if you're any of these other teams in the East, I think you have to be hoping against that possibility, right?

If you're the Sixers or the Bucks, the idea of Durant going to the Celtics. Do you? It seems pretty bad, you know? I would much rather, you know, if I'm the Bucks, I'm much happier about him going to Phoenix, you know? Sure. Go back to Golden State, be well, you know?

rekindle an old love. Let's see what we can get going over there. Or, you know, stay with the Nets. That sounds cool, you know? Let's be, and I should be fair about Katie getting his ass kicked in the playoffs last year and looking bad in the process. The team that he would be on in Boston is much better than what that Brooklyn team was in this year's playoffs.

Yes. Like the surrounding talent would be more complimentary. The talent level would be higher. Be a much better team, 100%. But again, this guy is about to be 34. Extensive injury history of serious injuries. Only getting older, only going to get worse. I'm not, I don't think this is the crazy home run.

And then again, like the moodiness and the freaking entitlement and all of that stuff. Like, I don't know that that makes for an undeniable juggernaut. That's just me. Okay, I have a fuzzy recollection a couple months ago of you sprinting through. the Netflix series, the ultimatum. Is that correct? Did you watch the ultimatum? I absolutely did.

And I thoroughly enjoyed it. I was entertained by the madness of that show. Did you glean any wisdom as to how ultimatums ultimately set themselves out? Ultimatums are stupid. They don't work. Ultimatums. Don't do an ultimatum. Like, you're going to get left holding the bag when you give an ultimatum.

Just don't. Don't bother. level with people, reason with people, communicate with people, have amicable disagreements with people, or, you know, just separations from people and make your life less stressful. Ultimatums are a bad, bad, bad idea, Rob. I'm very glad you said this because part of me admittedly has been wondering, should I be giving more ultimatums in my life? It's not exactly my style generally, but I feel like I need to be a little more confrontational.

I need to let people know what I want, but if you're telling me not to do it, I trust you implicitly at this matter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't do it, Rob. Don't do it at your crib. Do not do it at work. Don't do it anywhere.

Just banish the ultimatum. Well, that's probably good news for Steve Nash and Sean Marks, I would think. But, I mean, this trade saga is still kind of unspooling itself. What the return will look like is something I'm fascinated to see. And I think in part, I'm kind of wondering if Durant is in that space

where he's almost too good to trade. And there's one detail that jumped out from Shams Tarania's report in The Athletic about this whole situation where he said, and this is a quote, Cy and the Nets have made clear privately that they will take every last asset from a team that trades for Durant, sources said.

I mean, that's some good posturing, absolutely. That's negotiating through the media. There's no doubt. But there's some truth to it, right? in the sense that the only teams that are going to trade for a 34-year-old Kevin Durant, I want to say, are teams that are trying to contend. And yet, is there a way you can contend if you have to give up the stuff you need to give up to get Kevin Durant? That's tough talk.

That seems like tough talk. Like, oh, we're going to get everything, everything from the team that trades. Of course you're going to say that. Like, I want to see how comfortable they are with bringing the guy to camp if he sits out, if he comes, if he sucks. if you like because kd trust me man like he had no problem that last year in golden state being the most unhappiest camper ever on a team that was essentially going to win the championship for the third time in a row if not for a catastrophic injury that kd sustained like he found a way to be miserable with that group imagine what he's going to do if he comes back

with the nets and you wonder what their stomach for that will be on the management side i do worry about that. You know, we're now kind of six or seven years into basically wondering straight up, what does Kevin Durant want? What will appease him and make him content in his life? He wants to do minimal work and get all the credit. I don't even, is that true? You think so?

Of course. Of course. He, yo, you don't remember when he said, oh, I'm tired of double teams. I don't, I don't like double teams. I don't like working hard. I don't like doing it. And then he got mad. Oh, come on.

And then he got mad when he went to Golden State. Then he got mad when he went to Gold Estate didn't get all the glory and the credit for it. It's like, bruh, it wasn't that hard. I'm sorry, we watched you. It was not that difficult for you. You know what I mean? And I think there's something to that. People want to see you have to sweat for your accomplishments, man.

And I think Katie wants to not have to sweat while getting all of the glory. See, I don't know if I totally believe that. And part of it is like look at the nets over the last season where he was pretty much the only guy showing up as far as their star players were concerned. Yeah, but that was an accident. Like they got James Hardin up in there, you know, before the hammy and Kyrie.

Like, bro, it wasn't going to be Katie just carrying them to the freaking mountain top. He was going to have plenty of help in that department. And it just didn't work out. But that's what his desire was, was like, gut our core, gut our depth. get James in here because he can do heavy lifting. Like, this is just a reality of what's happened at both of his last stops.

You know what I'm saying? Well, I mean, if given the choice between an easy route to the finals with the Warriors in which you don't necessarily get all the credit and another, I'm guessing he saw as like a similarly easy route that didn't quite work out, in which you get more of the credit, I could see how you could talk yourself into wanting a little more shine. Listen, it'd be one thing if you was just like, look, I just want to play on the best basketball team possible.

I want to be on a team that reaches heights that this game has never seen. We want to make opponents look terrible and sad and stupid. I am just about producing the highest level of basketball that's ever been imagined. Cool. That don't come with individual glory, though.

And I think KD wants his individual glory. I always wondered if, you know, especially with the Nets, if what he was after was a sense of authorship and kind of building that thing and having, you know, more of an active hand on the scales of what was happening. And I mean, I think we're seeing that come back to bite him a little bit in terms of

exactly the way things have played out. And I don't want to make this a player empowerment conversation. Oh, God. We're going to put our shot collars on and Jesse, our producer. I'm going to encourage you to zap us if we use the phrase player empowerment again on this podcast. But it is hard to look at this situation as anything other than the chickens coming home to roost a little bit, not even necessarily for Durant, but I think absolutely for the

Nets. Yeah, I mean, look, they went all in on the idea that they want to be quote unquote pro player at literally any cost. And the idea that we would show a spine or a backbone in, you know, basically showing these guys like, yo, there's a boundary to the, there's boundaries to how much we're willing to follow you guys, you know, follow your lead. Like, we'll give you important stuff. But like at the same time, like we get paid for a. reason. And when you listen to guys like Kyrie talk about what management or coaches does, it's obviously super dismissive. And the idea of being like, you guys don't know or do anything. It's on us. And so the Nets, they bought into that whole hog and definitely bit them in the

ass. And the KD thing is hilarious. Like, just the idea that you would want Nash and, and, Sean Mark's gone for being incompetent when their incompetence is directly tied to giving you everything you wanted. That's kind of incredible. It's rich. I mean, it's why I hesitate to really like moralize any of this stuff because the- It's just such a weird situation altogether. And like I wonder

if Kyrie Irving was just a normal star, do we get here? Like, are we in this place if he just behaves like a normal human being who is a star basketball player? Probably not. No. James Hardin doesn't demand a trade. They're just a much better team for not disrupting that big three thing because when they were right

for the brief amount of times that they were, like it's comical the amount of games that they actually ended up playing with each other in those a year and a half for however long it was, they were pretty damn good and unstoppable. And so, yeah, it is a shame that Kyrie Irvin just, you know,

getting his Dr. Sabion couldn't salvage this thing. Yeah, I mean, for all we're putting on Durant and talking about what he wants and what's going to make him happy, and his failings and his leanings. I think, I mean, it just seems like he made a pretty bad decision in terms of who to partner with ultimately. And that's going to cost him pretty substantially here.

I don't know if he's going to have to sit out games or if he even wants to do that. I don't know how long this thing could possibly stretch out, but I think there's reasonable scenarios in which he doesn't get traded until mid-season, right? And so it's like, what is he giving up by going this route at this point? Man, the guy's,

shown such a willingness to not show up to work. I don't see how you can discount the idea that he would do that. But I think the Lakers are going to find a way to bring that guy to L.A. Yeah, I really do think that's going to happen. They've been hesitant because, you know, they felt very, the front office and ownership has felt very wounded by stuff in the press about them being incompetent themselves. So they want to win the Kairi trade, so to speak.

So I think eventually cooler heads will prevail. and that deal will happen because it's the only one that makes sense for all parties involved. And I think, yeah, eventually KD gets moved for a pretty good package and we all get to move on with our lives, man. God, I hope so. I mean, certainly we've gone around and around the bend with this stuff. And with the super team stuff in general, like, I'm at the point now where I'm wondering, like, do we romanticize the pre-super team nets too much? Like, you gave a loving tribute to Jared Allen at the top of this podcast who I think is a really good player. but in all of the discussions and the breakdowns of like,

oh, this is the sequence of events that led us here. This is the firings, the replacements, the trades, they got the nets to where they are today. Like we're talking about DeAngelo Russell and Carissel Verde and Spencer Dinwiddie, aren't we? No, no, of course. Of course. And I'm definitely not opining for the culture nets. You know, that whole idea.

The culture of a 500 team. Yeah, the culture nets is definitely not what I'm opining for. it's more about process. The process getting here was nasty. If we're being honest, like the just naked way in which they just straight up sucked up to these guys unapologetically was unbecoming. And it didn't work. You know what I mean? Like it didn't work. They failed because of it. And so, you know, I think it's fair game to talk about it, man. Yeah, I wish it were more complicated than that. But the fact that it didn't work is really the whole thing. And I think historically, if you look at players who are entrusted in this way, like, it's Kauai Leonard

and LeBron. Those are the cases where it works. Yes. Everyone else is big question marks. And that includes Kevin Durand, who's one of the best players in human history. And if he can get dragged down by this, I think that's proof that it's not about who you empower. It's not about the structures in place. It's about like, you better be very careful about who, like, these specific players you are alying with in these situations and the position that puts your whole franchise in. I have a related question. There's kind of an offshoot of this story.

I don't know if you saw this. So there's a story in which Rick Bueger told the story on Colin Cowherd's show that when the Nets were down 03 to the Celtics in the playoffs, the Nets are in their group chat. Somebody asks Ben Simmons if he's going to play game four of that series. Because that was a possibility that was in the air at the time.

It was being reported that that was a possibility. And as Buecker tells it, Benson has just straight up left the group chat when someone asked him about that. Where are you on the group chat etiquette of that situation? Is that an acceptable thing to do? We're the host of group chat. I feel like we have to comment on the biggest group chat related story. So, oh my God, this is great. So I've been in, you know, over the years, so many group chats. And I remember all of the most dramatic. group chat exits, such as such as

exited the group chat. You got to hit us with one of those. What are you got? Oh my God. I can share this. A friend of my, it's a group chat of about three or four of us.

And one of the people in the group chat betrayed the confidences of the chat to a woman who was friends with the woman another person in the chat was seen. So,

this wasn't like, Rob, this wasn't like pillow talking like, oh, such and such said X, Y, Z, no. Screenshots. Oh, no. Screenshots of the group chat sent to the friend of this woman where, you know, some decently, not the end of the world,

but some unsavory things were said. And, yeah, without warning, It was just like, I guess that person got scolded by the woman or whatever. Such and such has exited the group chat. Then later on, of course, I found out why. And I was like, holy moly. So, yeah, that was definitely the most dramatic one in my life where it's like, bro, like, you really like, not only you just pillow talking, like, you're providing states evidence.

We're like, what are you saying to me to bull? You're wearing a wire in here? Some Alex Jones shit going on right there. Craziness. And so, you know, it's crazy too because, like, from what I heard, Vince, basically everybody thought he was playing. Yeah. And he just didn't show up the day of the game. That's crazy.

That's craziness. That's something that is like, like, literally the league might have to step in with that kind of stuff. But, yeah, like, you know, and again, that's the kind of thing that doesn't. gratiate you with your teammates and helps you lose a lot of respect, to be quite honest. I mean, I can definitely see why. And it goes to your point about ultimatums.

Like, just communicate with the people in your life. You know, it's not that hard to tell your teammates that you might not show up versus leaving the group chat. But I did see today, and this is not a bit, that WhatsApp is literally adding a feature as we speak where other people will not see when you've left the group chat. And I'm, I can't help but wonder, the timing of all this,

What kind of poll does Ben Simmons have? Like, clearly he knows of people in the right places. Why does anybody need this, guys? Like, yo, just stand, listen, stand on what you believe in, bro. Like, you know what I mean? Like, if this is how you want to carry it, then carry it that way. Like, come on now. We're better than this, folks.

Well, I think the answer is if you're a player who hasn't played NBA basketball in, like, 16 months. and you don't have it in you to tell your teammates that you will not be playing in the final game of their season. I guess that's the only way to go at that point. By the way, for the record, never left a group chat. No. You're staying in.

Listen, if I lose the usefulness of a group chat, I'll put them on mute. Do not disturb. I'm not going to, it's not going to say, Waz has left the group chat. I'm just not doing it. You're going down with the ship. You're AHAB.

I'm going down with the ship. You invite me into a group chat. I'm a lifer. Is there anything else we need to untangle with this Durant mess? This is obviously the biggest story of the week. Look, if you want to get into Dejante Murray and Paolo Bancaro doing, doing whatever it is they're doing, we can do that. But I feel like this is really the only game is town.

I'm sure there's other people on the internet doing that crap. I'm just curious how the league deals with this going forward. That, to me, is the only other question? Which part of it? Is it the, that it's so early in his extension and he's pushing for the trade? Is it like what element do you think the NBA is telling? Like you can, and I don't even care about the trade, but it's like, is KD really not going to play? Like you're really like you are one of the most important people in the entire operation as far as the NBA as a whole.

You're being paid handsomely. Like is this guy, look, if Katie's willing to miss game checks to not play to be like, yo, I really don't want to be him. I'm waiting for y'all to trade me. All right, cool. I'm cool with that. But, like, don't you can't expect to get paid and not play. That don't make no sense. So I'm really curious to see what happens with that.

And then, to be honest, man, like, Adam Silver, bro. Like, you got a lead at a certain point, man. So often this dude is on defense and reacting to stuff. Like, you got a lead. And David Stern was no saint. He wasn't the biggest genius in the world. Like, he'd like everybody to think. But, man, this shit could never happen on David Stern's watch.

Like, it just couldn't happen, bro. Like, you're hurting the league with this stuff. Like, have your disagreements with your franchise, all of that. But, like, bro, you got four years left on your deal. Show up to work, play. People want to watch you play. You're a generational talent. Like, you're being rewarded handsomely to display your talent.

You know, I'm not one of these people who just, like, shut up and play. and blah, blah, blah. It's not that, but it's like, goddamn, bro. Like, play, bro. Yeah, I do think it's pretty stark in terms of the way this kinds of stuff needs to be legislated and needs to be legislated against.

With the same kind of ferocity that the NBA tackled load management, the idea that a player's going to miss like three games a season is going to be a huge deal. But Kevin Durant could sit out until December or January, and that's just kind of part and parcel of the way the league operates right now. There needs to be a middle ground for that.

in which players can still move around the league in ways that they like and get to the places that they want to go for their careers, but in which players aren't giving up games in the way that Ben Simmons clearly did and that which Kevin, like, we're talking about Kevin Durant

not playing basketball games just because he's not on the team he wants to be on. That doesn't seem great. Yeah. And I know the NBA in the past, and I think the first instance they were moving away from this

posturing towards corporate progressivism was the, the pandemic and the sort of like, yo, listen, man, we're not losing billions of dollars because it's the progressive, quote-unquote, thing to do to be deathly afraid of COVID. Like, they just straight up said, forget that. We need the money.

We're going to do that. And we've seen them move in that direction, generally speaking, going forward. And I think the quote-unquote player empowerment stuff was rolled into this idea of the NBA being somehow, some progressive, liberal bastion of a corporation which was always overblown, half-baked, and nonsensical, right? This is a freaking corporation.

They care about making money. They don't care about fixing police brutality or ending world hunger. It's crap. It's nonsense. And so I think they're going to move away from this player empowerment stuff, and they're going to try to crack some skulls here because it's gotten ridiculous and the empowerment of who, to what end, right? It's not as if, you know, the 13th man on the bench is now more empowered than ever before.

It's not true. It's like four guys who wield power. And I think they should. They're exceptional people. But, like, as with anything, there should be some checks to it. You know what I mean? And, you know, I think outside of the NBA bashing these guys in the head for their 57% revenue split, they've basically been good partners to these dudes in accommodating them.

outside of clawing back that bread, which I think the players deserve, to be quite frank. Outside of that, they've been pretty good and fair partners to them. And that's all you can ask from a partner slash employer. And I think this stuff is the NBA being, NBA players being bad partners. Ben Simmons, bad partner in this case, disingenuous partner. And I think they need to clean that up going forward. Well, this is also the logical endpoint of this podcast.

We have traced a meeting in London to the dissolution of partnerships in the NBA and between the league and its players. Why, we did it? I mean, we wrangled, controlled this podcast. We went on a journey. I think we solved all of the net's problems. I mean, do you feel that way?

Listen, more importantly, we made compelling sports podcast content in the month of August, okay? I want to pat on the head for that, people. Get in my mention and tell me how great I am. Thank you. Well, God, I hope you're right. But thank you for joining me, Waz. Thanks to Jesse Lopez for producing this podcast.

Thank you to all of you out there who are rising and grinding through the offseason with us. And we'll catch you again soon.