The Ringer NBA Show - Breaking Down the Biggest Deals From Day 1 of NBA Free Agency | Group Chat

Episode Date: July 1, 2023

Justin is joined by The Ringer’s Michael Pina to recap the first day of NBA free agency. They start off talking about Fred VanVleet signing with the Rockets, Kyrie Irving remaining with the Mavs, and the Lakers’ modest acquisitions (02:00). Then, they discuss Jerami Grant’s huge extension, Bruce Brown to the Pacers, and the most intriguing re-signing (33:02). Lastly, they look into the remaining free agents left (55:49). Host: Justin Verrier Guest: Michael Pina Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, Humanoids. This is David Chewaker here with a very exciting announcement. Your favorite wrestling podcast feed, The Ring of Wrestling show, is now going daily. And you can hang out with me and Kaz on Mondays and Thursdays for the Masked Man Show. And you can join me, Peter Rosenberg, alongside Stack Guy Greg and Dip every Tuesday with cheap heat. And on Fridays, I'll welcome a friend or special guest from the world of wrestling. Now, on Wednesdays, we have a very special new show called Wednesday Worldwide that you're going to want to check out. Paperview reaction, one-of-a-kind interviews, fantasy booking, talking about bagels. That's what we do here on the Ring of Wrestling show.

Follow the show now on Spotify. And do us a favor. Give us five stars. And do us another favor. And stay major. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me. He is stepping away from crafting his life-sized Nicola Yokic diorama.

It is Michael Pina. What's up, buddy? What up, JV? How you doing, man? Good. So Waz is at a wedding. Rob has fallen ill, DNP old slash COVID,

but we've got the guy the takesman himself ready to break down free agency. Have you caught your breath at the very least from the first couple hours? I'm Bruce Brown off the bench right now dropping 21 game four

of the NBA finals. I'm super pumped. It is 10 o'clock on the East Coast. I'm drinking coffee right now. So I'm just, yeah, the takes are about to fly. For sure. A lot of activity.

Hopefully you're dropping 21 and making 22 and a half on top of that because that's what our friend, Bruce cashed in on with the Indiana Pacers. We'll get to that one. We're going to go through some of the biggest deals of NBA free agency. Like Mike mentioned, we're only, what, four hours into this at this point, but pretty much like 90% of free agency he was over with. We'll see about Dame. We'll see about Hardin. That will surely take weeks in many. digital ink will be spilled tracking that thing. But we got all the big ones, starting with

Fred Van Vleet, inking the biggest deal for an undrafted player in NBA history, three years, $130 million. That's his max. You know, I think the saying is that you can't buy class. I think you can in this instance. It's just going to cost you everything that you could possibly give in order to get it. What's your just broad takeaway from probably I would say the biggest deal so far. Yeah, it's the only max contract that was signed so far as we're recording. I, you know, to be honest with you, Justin, I wasn't stunned by this. All the reporting over the last few days was that Houston was gearing up to offer him a two-year max.

So we already knew that they were kind of in the ballpark money-wise, just how much of a commitment were they willing to give? and it was between that and it was between Toronto. So in my head, I was just more wondering if he was actually going to go to Houston, the worst, most dysfunctional on-court product we had in the NBA last season and take that money or take probably less annual money over a four-year deal from the team, the only team he's ever played for that developed him, where he won a title, where he means so much. and yeah my homie took the money and good for him uh you know bet on yourself red van fleet a lot of

questions though i i have for i mean first of all i got to say like what is really fascinating about this to me and i understand it for sure but the houston rockets essentially were like james hardin fred van fleet we will take fred ben fleet i just think that right there is very interesting and it's understandable why age, I guess you could say fit, right? Like, I don't know. I don't know what this roster is going to look like next season, to be honest with you. But that right there really kind of stands out is just kind of a really interesting organizational decision for the Houston Rockets.

Yeah, with Hardin, you're basically asking him to take over everything with your franchise. Even if you don't ask him, he's probably going to do. it by sheer force of personality and just the way he plays. Fred has always been the type of player for me that fit on so many different teams, particularly young teams like the Rockets or even Orlando, some of these other ones that got mentioned leading up to this contract because he could just do what he does without disrupting the progress of your young players. If you want Jaylen Green to be this like dynamic occasional ball handler or whatever, like he could still be that and Fred could take a co-piloting role. If you want Alper and Shangriamese,

to finally become the Nikolokic South that I personally would love to see him be. And I think a lot of other people, like, that is still an option on the table. And so at the very least, they're not really disrupting what is ostensibly a young core and the future of their franchise. They're just kind of bringing in a caretaker. And now Fred is basically passing up opportunities to compete for a title while doing so. but again, that's what the money is for. And so if this is what he wants and like I can't blame him for it,

I guess the question is, can he have a meaningful impact on a culture that like he hasn't been a part of? Because as we know, he's been part of the Raptor system for so long. Can what made him so unique as a player and interesting as a player carry over to a new system, a new coach, a new group of players? Yeah, I mean, I think they were cultureless last season. I just like how they played basketball was just antithetical to common sense.

It was just we're going to shoot no passing and we're crashing the offensive glass and we're not getting back in transition. That was every single Houston Rockets game last year. And so what I think is really valuable here, you know, you can kind of criticize the Rockets for accelerating what could have been an organic rebuild.

But I feel like they have enough. pieces. It's been three years. They have a lot of cap space, $60 million. They have their top, their pick in 2004 is top four protected going to the Oklahoma City Thunder. They have every incentive to try to grow and progress next year. And I just think like if you're Jabari Smith, Jr., this is a godsend. If you're Shingun, like Fred Van Fleet pick and rolls with Alper and shingoon, I'm just going to be drooling watching that next season. I cannot wait. It's going to be amazing stuff. If you're Jalen Green, I actually, that's where I'm like, oh, this is really interesting. I'm not exactly positive how, because I think that Jailen Green's the one who actually needs to

sacrifice more than the guy who just got the max. You know what I mean? Like, I think Jailen Green will have to play off the ball a little bit more. He'll have to, I mean, Emeo Doka has already said this, but like if you're not defending, you're not going to play. And Ema O'Doka, he doesn't care. Like, I think he will bench Jalen Green. I really do. So I think just as someone who can hold teammates accountable, can say, hey, guys, like, I was undrafted.

I won a title. I have a max contract. So screw all of you, like, follow me. I think having that type of presence in a locker room is really helpful. And then also they have, I think, $25 million. left to spend in free agency. And there's some interesting names out there. So Brooke Lopez, everyone's favorite player, Dylan Brooks,

who was rumored to be on the Houston Rockets last week or in weeks past. So it's not, nothing is kind of finished here in Houston. But I like this move overall for all parties. Yeah. I think my question is, how much does it change the, Rockets bottom line. And on the one hand, I don't know how much they care about that because at the very least, they're going to be playing heavy minutes to a lot of young guys, including two of the draft picks that they took just a couple days ago. But as I'm looking at the West, and I'm saying

even in the best case scenario, where Green takes a step forward, maybe Kevin Porter Jr. just doesn't like go completely batch shit off the rails as a result of this. I would be surprised if he lasts the entire offseason in Houston considering some things that have happened with him over the course of his career. But I think they're going to be better than the Spurs, but I'm not actually sure. And I'm looking at the rest of the West, the Jazz, you know, the Pelicans, some of these other teams that finished toward the bottom, maybe the Blazers, depending on how things shake out there. But like, I would probably predict them to finish second worst in the West yet again. Man, that's, yeah, now I'm looking at the standing. I was like feeling really optimistic

for Houston. And I did, yeah, no, it's going to be tough. The West is an absolute bear. There's just, like, no really bad teams beyond. And, like, the Spurs, maybe not. Maybe they won't be that bad. Like, I wanted Fred to go to the Spurs and I actually thought that if he did, they could compete for a playing spot

because I like a lot of the players in San Antonio, and who knows how good Victor is going to be in year one. But, yeah, like, a lot of question marks. Portland with Dame. We're about to talk about Kyrie. and his fit with Luca. I think the Oklahoma City Thunder are going to be like really good next year with Chet. Might win a title.

Yeah. It could happen. I like Utah a lot. I think they're like super professional and I like the John Collins edition, even if there's some positional overlap. So it's going to be tough. I mean, they would need a lot of injury luck. They would need massive leaps from Jalen Green, from Jabari. The Thompson twin needs to be amazing.

I'm going to learn their first names eventually, but for now they're just the Thompson twins for me still. They have a men, right? Yes. Yes, yes. And maybe he's good right. Maybe Cam Whitmore is like amazing and looks like a lottery talent. I don't know.

We'll see. But yeah, you're right. Like I think in the short term year one, it could be pretty gruesome. And then, you know, that's why you give him the three-year deal. right? So hopefully either those pieces

who are young, you can flip for more veteran established talent that are a little bit closer to Fred's timeline. I don't know if that's the smartest move, but that's something you could do if you were serious about wanting to be competitive in the short term. They have a little bit of flexibility

here though, and I think that everyone involved should still be like kind of patient. Yeah. They're forcing him to stay long term. They got the extra year out of him in order to make sure that he does not go anywhere and doesn't ask for a trade immediately as possible. Let's flip to the other side of this just quickly, though, because the Raptors lose obviously one of their few shooters and ball handers on this team. They didn't sign

Dennis Schroeder for a handsome sum of two years, 26 million. That was a questionable one. And then they brought back Yaakovir for four years, 80 million. Pricie, albeit it seems like within the range of what centers are getting, I believe. Fusevich got what, three for 60? So, market value. They did pay a draft pick for him at the deadline. So that's a very least understandable. Other than that, I don't know what Toronto is doing. Can you make sense of these moves? I mean, maybe we get a Pascal Seacum trade. Maybe we get an OG and Anobit trade. Maybe there's just more to come here. But after years and years of just relying on Maasai to do the genius thing, I'm starting to wonder if there's enough evidence slowly mounting that maybe he's getting a little too falling in love with some of his own guys and waiting a little bit too long to cash in on them.

Lowry, obviously, he waited until the offseason trade him. And now Fred, they lose for nothing. Yeah, I mean, I don't know how to look at this beyond like, this is just a misread of the market of Fred Van Fleet's commitment to Toronto. Clearly, they thought, clearly they were confident he was going to come back or you do not give, and at some cost fallacy, whatever with the Yakopurtle trade, you gave up a first to get him. But you do not pay Yakupurtle $80 million.

if you think you're losing Fred Van Fleet straight up. The Dennis Schrooter replacement plan, that's just not it. This team really struggled to move the ball last season. As you said, Fred Van Fleet, by far their best playmaker, their best shot creator, table setter. Their offense was terrible when he was off the floor last year. Dennis Shooter is not a pass first point guard

He that's just not He's a shoot first guard who can't shoot threes That is a good way to put it Yeah And I haven't even like really processed The contract that they gave him yet But like I was shocked Now I'm like looking at it I'm like shocked by that number

Man Yeah Toronto It's just they probably slash definitely should have traded Fred at last year's deadline. I don't know what the offers were exactly for OGI and Anobi, but everything

that was rumored, you know, if there's three firsts on the table, you're not getting that anymore because of this new CBA and the value of draft picks and all that. So I think that they are in trouble. I think that I'm not like poo-pooing being on the treadmill of mediocrity. I think that's a little

overused, but I think that if you are in the middle, you have to be in a position where you can show incremental growth and improvement. And if, I mean, OG, Pascal, no point guard. Scott, like Scotty, it's a lot on Scotty. Scotty needs to be Magic Johnson. So, like, if that's going to happen, great, wonderful. Well, if, yeah, but if not, you're the Bulls. And that's very depressing.

nobody wants it so I mean I guess you got to like you got to look at the market for Pascal you got to look at the market for OG like aggressively

you don't have as much leverage as you did last year which is a huge bummer if you're Maasai but I think that starting over is and building around Scotty is kind of like

what you need to do and the other path is like trade Scotty is like I'm not doing that that's stupid so I think they got to start over I do Yeah, I mean, I understand Schroeder to a certain extent because he fits a type, right?

He definitely showed in the playoffs that he's a bit more of a grinder than he probably seemed to be earlier on in his career, more of a two-way pest at the very least on the defensive end that he could hold his own. And so I could definitely see the interests from a side. It seems to fit like generally what he tends to gravitate toward. But yeah, they're just really caught with a bunch of veterans, a couple of intriguing young guys and no real clear direction. And even a guy like Pascal or, I mean, OJ seems to have a lot. a market whenever they decide to push the button. But Pascal seems like the type of player who might be caught in this weird, like, middle class of stars even because I don't think he's the type of player.

A Knicks would really like just plop down all of their best assets for because he's not going to raise your ceiling so much. But I also don't know how he ends up on a team. Like, let's say Portland wants to trade Simons and Nurkich and Picks and whatever like that. But like, can they afford Pascal Seahakum extension considering what they just paid Jeremy grant and what they're paying Lillard and what they're going to be paying for just an actual roster beyond that. So I don't know. They're really trapped in the middle there. But I do want to pivot now to probably the class of mercurial point guards here in Kyrie Irving being welcomed back with

open arms in Dallas somehow took multiple meetings with the suns, with the rockets, all these teams in the span of 45 minutes because that's when his new deal with Dallas was dropped, was reported three years, $126 million with the player option in year three. I saw some people panning this and to a certain extent I understand it. Like I don't have high hopes for the Kyrie era in Dallas. I think inevitably it will lead to Kyrie probably leaving perhaps in two years to join Kevin Durant yet again on the Seattle Supersonics or for just Luca ultimately leaving at some point. But they kind of made their bed at the trade deadline. You traded for him knowing you'd have to resign him anyway.

So at the very least, two, maybe three years isn't a lot of exposure. You could see out the next couple years and kind of make the best of it. What do you think? Yeah, I mean, if you want to be optimistic, you could say this could have gone a lot worse. You could have paid him a four-year max. Like, they didn't even pay him the max, which is terrific for Dallas, I suppose. You could have lost him. He could have signed a vet-min contract with the Phoenix Sons because he's Kyrie Irving and who knows what he's thinking at all times.

I just, you know, I understand the, they were desperate when they signed, when they traded for him. You get in the Kyrie Irving business and you're tied to him and all of the, everything that they do is about Luca keeping Luca hat. Like I understand all of that. I just think this was like just ridiculous. frankly. Like, who is, who, like, are those off those meetings that you referenced that clearly never happened with Phoenix and Miami and I forget what other organizations were listed there people were tweeting out? Clearly, just like Houston, another one. Macaubi Tel Aviv, yeah. Exactly. Like three years, 126 with a player option, like, what are we, what are we doing? Why? I just don't.

You would rather it go longer or shorter? Shorter. Oh, absolutely shorter. I would have, if, you know, if I'm winning Dallas, I'm getting out of the Kyrie Irving business and I'm like, hey, Draymond, I will max you out. That's what I would do, but that's just me and that's a totally different conversation. I would not be in the Kyrie Irving. I just wouldn't even be negotiated with him at all.

I think that you're asking for trouble. I don't think his, yeah, I just think like this whole thing is going to result in Lucca leaving. That's just me personally after watching this dude for the last few years up close in a few different situations that he basically burned to the ground. So, yeah. I'm writing these takeaways about, you know, reactions for all these different contracts. And obviously, this is one of the most more noteworthy ones. And you look at Kyrie's numbers in the 20 games he played with the Mavericks, which I forgot after the trade deadline and it's just like 27 points. Six assists, five boards, 50, 40, 90 shoot it.

Like, you know, the talent is like undeniable. I'm not like blind to that, of course. It's just all the other stuff. And all the other stuff will pop up again, best believe, guaranteed. So I'm giving a two-year deal. If I have to like, even a two-year max, like that just, it's all about the years, I think, for me. and just that is like the incentive for him to stay focused and committed on professional priorities, I think.

So I think just three years kind of blew me away out of nowhere. I didn't, I don't understand it. I don't know who was, where the leverage was to get this. I just, it boggles my mind. So, yeah, I'm pretty down on it, not going to lie. I don't disagree with most of what you said. I guess it does split the difference between just having to deal with this a year, maybe even two from now, and just constantly having to check in on him and do things in order to fit his preference. At the very least, you've got enough of a runway where you can give this a shot.

And if it doesn't work, you can try to bail on it and trade him to the Sons, at which point they will have four other Max players. and they will just completely be rewriting the CBA, but I don't know. I feel like a lot of what he was doing leading up to this was probably to get more years. And so to split in the middle as opposed to give four or five seems at least from a removed state, like somewhat of a win. And I just like everything else that they've done on top of this. On Draft Night, they made a lot of shrewd moves in order to open up the mid-level exception. It seems like Kyrie not getting the max was at least maybe his part in getting another player. It seems like Seth Curry is also going to be signed there.

It was reported he was on a two-year deal. We haven't had money yet, but I assume it's the mid-level or maybe part of the mid-level. I do have questions about like what a back court looks like at that point because I think we've already been through this where Kyrie and Seth are on the same team. And we had to figure out the defensive just patches around that. But they're just like making a lot of good moves. And I think that's a step in the direction. Like I said before, I mean,

they kind of made their decision to get in the kyrgy business at the deadline. And everything they've done since is fine. It's just, yes, I agree with you that the initial sin is hard to overlook. Yeah, I am interested to see how they fill out the roster. They do have some cap mechanisms to work with.

And there are still some interesting players out there who I think can, I mean, like, even someone like Jay Crowder, you know what I mean? Like, bring Jay Crowder signs of vetman or I don't even know, like, how much of their mid-level they have left. I don't, I think there's other players who are better who could, depending on how much money of their mid-level that they have to spend. But just like as an example, like, he was in Dallas before. I don't think he's over the hill.

I think they need someone at that type of position that, a swing man who can, knock down three is played in playoff games he's a professional etc like that could work and be helpful um but yeah i just think like fundamentally like just as a basketball team like um i'm worried about the defense i'm worried about kairi irving doing whatever on any given day um and like you know i don't know i just i think it's fine but i'm I'm worried that he might just quit basketball in a couple weeks. Yeah, no. That's fair. We need like the Dwight Howard clip of Player X come to Taiwan. That's just that could be relevant sooner than later as well, I guess what I'm trying to say. All right. Let's flip now to the other

side of the Kyrie Korn, I guess, if you want to say that the Lakers are that, or perhaps going from just chaotic to Pruden. Somehow the Lakers are now in that boat because they went the complete opposite direction of what you would assume LeBron was motioning for when he did the retirement bluff after getting his ass kicked by the nuggets in the playoffs. Gabe Vincent brings the heat culture over

for three years, 33 million. Rui Hachamura resigns three years, 51 million. Torium Prince one year 4.5 million. That's the bi-annual. So that's pretty much the Lakers offseason at this point. Unless we see something coming from nowhere,

they still have their own free agents who they could resign Austin Reeves, presumably they will match any offer to him. And DeAngel Russell, you have to assume that he's coming back, if only to retain the asset. Maybe that does more damage than good. But I'm looking around it and I'm saying, I'm giving the golf clap for what the Lakers have done this offseason. I know it's not sexy, but basically they're just rolling back the approach they took it last season's trade deadline, where they just get any sort of quality rotation players who aren't

just absolute dog shit and put them around LeBron James and Anthony Davis and Let them be brilliant, and you're going to give yourself a shot. Now, are they Nuggets level good? Probably not. I think they're better. Maybe the win a game or two against them in a series this time around. But they're definitely in the title conversation as opposed to last year, where it seemed like the talk was, will the team make the playoffs? Do they have to trade Anthony Davis, you know?

Yeah. I'll start with. You disagree. I disagree with the big picture. point that you're making. I like the moves that they made. Like, I like Gabe Vincent at 3 for 33, even though, what, he shot like 33% behind the three point line in the regular season before having a couple series in the

playoffs where he was exceptional and a couple where he was not very good. And I think like an ankle injury, he sprained his ankle late in the playoffs. And that probably impacted him a little bit in the finals. He's a really good player, though. And he's way more than a three-point shooter, as he showed. He's got a really nice first step. It's nice soft floater. Pretty tricky layup package.

And he's like really feisty on the defensive end and super smart and was able to survive, not only survive, but thrive, I think, in, you know, all the different ways that are exposed to likes to muck things up on that side of the ball. So I have a lot of respect for him and he's only 27 undrafted. This is a really good story. and I think he's better than DeAngelo Russell. So I think he should start personally.

And I hope he does if they bring Russell back. Yeah, like, you know, Rui is, I'm not surprised by this number. But I do think that if you watch the first three and a half years of his career, this is just an absolutely ridiculous contract. And that's just kind of what it is. it could be buying high on a lot of these guys

yeah uh i think i think gabe's i think gabe's deal is like really fair and ruby is yeah we just said covered but like i i really like the tory and prince move um obviously using your biannual hard cap shoe whatever that's not really that relevant right now for them uh i just think he's even though he hasn't played a lot of playoff games in his career he just like feels like a playoff ready, a playoff appropriate piece. So I really, I really thought that was a really nice value sign and was frankly a little surprised. I understand Minnesota's financial situation. Things are getting pretty tight there. But he's like really good. I think they'll miss him, honestly. And really good size, nice rebounders, position.

always been a good three-point shooter. I think he'll fit in really well next to AD when they go smaller, I guess AD is at the five right now. I was thinking about the Brooke Lopez rumor that was just like boggling my mind earlier. But no, at the four, you can play with LeBron and AD.

So he's really, I like him a lot. You know, Cam Reddish, signed to clutch. And that's why he's on the Lakers right now, I think. Sure. But I guess like just going back, to the big picture thing. Like I just, you know, threw out all of last season through the trade deadline, into the playoffs. I just never really bought in hardcore on what the Lakers were. And to me,

it's like all of this is nice. But at the end of the day, it's like, is 39-year-old LeBron James going to be a top five player in the postseason? That's really all this is to me. And I don't think that the answer that is yes. I have the utmost respect for him. I just don't think he can stay healthy and he hasn't done that over the past few years. So to say nothing of Anthony Davis's physical issues, persistence physical issues. So yeah, I guess that's like where I am with the Lakers. It's kind of like as so long as LeBron's here and so long as he's nearing 40 years old, it's kind I have to see it to believe it, which is crazy when you're talking about LeBron, but I guess that's just kind of how I feel.

But I still think there's like a huge gap between them and the nuggets. Like, can they beat the Sons? I don't think we're going to talk too much about them, even though they signed half of the league to unbetter and minimum contracts. But like the talent disparity is wild. Right. Yes. I think the biggest issue, as we saw in the playoffs, is where can they get that on the ball

juice when they need it when LeBron cannot provide it. And I think that has been the overarching question for this team, practically since AD joined the team. I guess if you're being an optimist here, you could say that pacing LeBron throughout the regular season is easier than it's been since what, probably 2020, since the first season with AD and they won the title, which was the principle, the guiding principle ostensibly from getting Russ in the first place, right? That you bring in some high-level ball handler who could take a lot of the reps. Now, ultimately, he did the complete opposite of that where it really taxed A.D. and LeBron to the point where they're probably more injured than they have been in recent years. But if you

could just get through the regular season with LeBron playing 50 games, potentially, if the LeBron of feet comes through and gets him into like the Kobe Germany system or whatever he's doing out there, then maybe you can have the better version of LeBron that wasn't there late in the playoffs where he was just jacking threes and settling and not being able to get by players. Maybe that player just isn't in there anymore, but I am waiting to see it happen first and foremost, kind of like the death of the spurs. And also, I wonder if the internal improvement, some of these other guys can get that. Can Austin Reeves just do enough of that in order to fill in the gaps? I know he's probably going to be manufacturing fouls rather than beating guys off the dribble,

but like, as we saw in the playoffs, that thing carries and it works. And so, I think ultimately they're kind of at the same place where they were in the playoffs, where it's like, yes, they're a good team, but can they be a great team? Which is ostensibly why LeBron was frustrated in the first place. But I don't know. I don't think that's a bad place to be considering just how bad it was before this, right? At the very least, like maybe you just play half of the season, stack some wins and roll some of these guys into maybe a high level guy who wants to come play for the Lakers. Maybe in the offseason, next offseason, maybe at the deadline. I don't know.

That seems difficult, but they have options now, which I think people forget last year. It seemed like this was the end of LeBron's career. Yeah, and you know, you bring up Austin Reeves, who's like their third best player, like by far. So he's pretty important. And I didn't mention him just because he's still unsigned as we're recording this. And there are, I think that, you know, they would be foolish not to match any offer for year, 100 million, if that's it, backloaded, whatever. You got to match it.

It's just what it is if you're the Lakers, you're in that position. But there are teams, I'm interested to see if there are teams out there that will, like, force them to put up or shut up with that. There are some teams that have enough cap space and, yeah, that'll be interesting to see how that unfolds, but I anticipate him being

back on the Lakers and probably better, even better than he was during that playoff run. And he was damn good. So that'll be interesting to see how it unfolds. The Spurs, if only for like the ghost of Tim Duncan and Spurs Pass, should at least give a fuck-you offer to Reeves and just play this thing out. Agree.

Speaking of fuck-you offers, sort of, Jeremy Greyhead, five years, $160 million. This is the one that drops from Jaws before the Fred Van Fleet number started to roll in. On the one hand, I get it. It seems like the Blazers are going to play this out with Dame, and at the very least for the next couple of weeks, try to prove to him, that he should come back. We definitely have to talk about that. But this is a lot for a player that I love. Like, I love everything about Grant. I think he's the type player who could fit in so many different situations. I feel like I mentioned him for 20 different

teams leading up to the offseason. Like, oh, the heat should just fill their void at the forward Jeremy Grant. The King should go out and get Grant if he can't resign in Portland. So I like the player. I don't hate the situation because it puts him right back into a place where he could be like a two or three on offense and still give you all the high-level defense stuff that he made his bones with in Denver, et cetera. But I don't know, man. Is this enough if you're dame to be like, all right, let's bring this one back? And I think long term, I have questions about if this contract is tradable at like a $32 million a year annual value.

I think the years, for me, under this new CBA, I'm basically always going to be surprised, or at least for the foreseeable future, I'm going to be surprised whenever someone gets a four or a five-year deal that's nine figures when you're not an All-Star. I think that Jeremy Grant had obvious leverage here. His representation goes to Portland and says, like, what are you going to do, not pay us? Like, you want to keep Dame.

That's clear. It's what Joe Cronin said publicly in his statement. They're committed to building a winner around Damien Lillard. So, like, they obviously know more than, we do. They've been talking to Dame. There's a lot of rumors about Damian Lillard being unhappy and

wanting to go elsewhere and blah, blah, blah. But like, if he's talking to them about, you know, I'm like bring back Jeremy, get getable free agent X who's still available. Like,

I'm patient enough to see what scoot looks like and see would, I don't know who else would be on the roster. Like move Simons for something. Move NERC. I don't know. But like I'm a big thread the needle person here with Portland.

I think that that's the route that they should go. Dame is still a top 10 player coming off his best season. He's just so amazing. Like I see a path for this team to as competitive as the Western conferences. if these guys all stay healthy, including Jeremy Grant, who averaged, what, 20 and shot 40% by the three-point line last year? He had a great year. So the length of this deal is, you know, it's not ideal. I don't think any team would be jumping up and down at signing Jeremy Grant, who's 29 to a five-year deal, $160 million with this new CBA, no. But they kind of just had to do it.

And I understand that. And I understand that. and I want to see them try with Dame and Scoot and whatever they get for Simons and I want them to build around the margins there and make smart moves and I don't know I'm that's the path I want to see and maybe I'm just being really naive about all this

I just want like five to ten games of Scoot and Dame playing together like I just want to see scoot and Shaden Sharp just like throwing lobs to each other and Dame shooting from half court. And they'll probably lose because they aren't going to stop the San Antonio Spurs even.

But it's just like there's something there that could be so goddamn explosive that I don't know if we've seen anything like it. And it's probably not going to happen and it's going to be a disappointment when it doesn't. But like, just want to get a glimpse of what Dame and Scoot could be together.

I guess the question ultimately with Portland is what can they do on top of this? It seems like the money is driving. at this point, like, is there anything out there for Simons and picks that they could actually turn into like a credible rotation player that would convince Dame that like we could do better than just like a playing competitor even? Like, I mean, Pascal, we just threw out Pascal, right? Like, would the Raptors even take all the picks plus Nurkich and Simons for him? No, I don't think so. So what are we doing?

like that's why we call it threading the needle right like threading a needle is really hard uh you got to have sharp make a leap and what is he's still like 19 years old uh you need scoot to look like the rookie of the year right away you need obviously you need dame to look way more like he did last year than he needed two years ago and stay healthy you need jeremy grant to be awesome uh like I would just, instead of being super focused on getting an all-star for Simons with picks, I would be like, all right, I just want size. I just want either a big four or an actual five. Like Isaiah Stewart is someone I wrote about in my recent column.

Just like, I don't think they can do this deal anymore because they ruin their cap space and Detroit is just like a total mess. But they could have done yesterday at this time, like Simons for Stewart straight up. I thought that that would make a lot of sense for both teams. stuff like that, like around the margins there, getting a rim protector. Like, can you do some work something with like Nerkich for Gafford? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know.

It's just going to be really difficult. But to all the points that you were saying, like, I just want to see it. I just, I think it will be really exciting. You know, they still have their mid-level, I believe. So Dylan Brooks is on the table. like just get crazy. Culture setter. Yeah. 100% exactly.

Hey, Dame, we got Daniel Gafford. It's like, what? So is that like a G-League guy that Scoop played with? No, no, no. He plays in Washington. Oh, man. Super efficient. Yeah, I can't even.

I'm getting sad. I couldn't get Daniel Gafford's name right for like a good five months at one point. I think he called him Justin Gafford. Frank Gafford. Look at the ego on you, Justin Gafford. Wow. I wish. Yeah, it'll be really difficult.

And they have a lot of paths, or not a lot, but they have like very different paths that are all conceivable for them to go down. And I just think it'll be fascinating to see what they do. But I don't think that they're going to trade dame in the short term here. And signing Jeremy Grant to this deal kind of signals that to me.

Yeah. As fun as it was for everything to pretty much fly off the board immediately, the next couple weeks are just going to be absolutely insufferable as we all wait for Dame to do something and he won't do anything. And now you have Daryl Morey in the mix basically just like waiting, holding on to James Hardin until like September 25th right before they start training camp because he just wants to ink out every possible option. So yeah, strap in. in the meantime Bruce Brown your guy cashed in big time as we referenced do you have a Bruce Brown tattoo

at this point did you go with with Michael Malone to the parlor I don't yet you're saving space for the Yokich one

you got the full back tat my Yokich one is actually life size so it's still it's really going to take I don't know

how we're going to complete it to be honest with you it's We're brainstorming right now. But no, I'm really looking forward to being completed at some point. And it'll look glorious. Yeah, it's just a full body sleeve.

Well, maybe Bruce Brown can help you pay for it because he's now making two years $45 million. And there's a team option on the second year with his new deal with the Indiana Pacers. But good God. Remember when we thought that Bruce Brown could have been had for the mid-level exception? I know the Lakers may have thought that at one point, but it turns out, He's going to be making more than like a lot of, like, not stars, but near stars. Yeah. I, you know, like, honestly, with how the CBA is, I anticipated crazy short-term deals, front-loaded,

like Joe Engel's getting $22 million. That was insane. It's just like teams just need to fill up their cap space, get a. above the floor and not commit long term to people. So like this deal right here, it seems insane. And it's just like it's not. It's like they had cap space. They thought Bruce Brown would be a wonderful fit next to Tyrese Halliburton, Benedict

Mathuron, Miles Turner. They can play a lot of different ways now with him. They can do the thing that he did in Brooklyn, go small, play him as like a screen and roll dive guy. They could do a lot of creative things with Bruce Brown, who like hit threes last year, handled the ball in the playoffs, ran pick and roll, and just proved to be like a super valuable, effective utility player. This is a blatant one year, at least overpay because they have a team option in year two, which is just great for Indiana and makes the contract all the best. better. But I just feel like there's no risk here. And it's just like if they like him, they can keep him. And maybe they have a long-term partnership. He's about to turn 27 years old.

Should still be getting better. And it's like obviously like a really nice culture fit. Everyone who plays with him likes Bruce Brown and does the dirty work. And yeah, like I get it from all that, from that perspective for for Indiana. I think like the only criticism is opportunity cost. Like would you have rather them throw, you know, I think they had over $30 million to spend. So would you have rather them thrown that money just a more established shooter or someone with more size?

Obviously Bruce Brown is undersized, even though he's pretty, he can guard up a position. So that's just like the, the criticism that you could have. Like, why didn't you throw that money at Cam? Why didn't you throw four for 125 at Cam Johnson? Whatever.

But I think this is fine for Indiana. And if you're Bruce Brown, like, this is, yeah, this is like a dream come true. Like, even if they turned down the second year of the option, still making more this year than he had in his entire career up to this point. And he has a ring. So shout out to him. I'll say this. So in place of all the NBA basketball that I'm typically watching,

I've been watching a lot of house hunters. And let me tell you, the Indiana market, dirt cheap right now. This dude can basically buy like seven mansions and link them all together and just live in basically his own town with this type of money. So shouts to him. I love the fit. I just think the Pacers are going to be fun as hell. If they're just like ripping and running and getting up the floor, floor with Halliburton spraying the ball around to

guys cutting like Brown and guys spotting up for three-point shooters like Turner. I think it makes a lot of sense. And so definitely fits the general POV there where they want to be good, but they're still like development happening between there. You don't have to rush Benet McAtherin into a spot

that he's potentially not ready for. And he definitely had a worse second half than he did a start. And so I get it. You know? When are we pitching the house owner's pod? When are we doing that. Anytime. Do you want to do one right now? You want to just finish this off with a look at a two-bedroom tutor in Silver Lake? I'm down. You'd let me know. Put it on my calendar. I'm,

I watch House Hunters every night with dinner. So let's go. Me and you will, that's a whole different conversation. But I'm looking forward to that part of my life. House Hunters, come sponsor group chat. Well, I do think you make a great point because it did cost a lot for guys to change teams. This was pretty much just a flurry of players getting overpaid by their own teams to come back. And we mentioned a couple of them before. But I do want to go through a couple of other deals that we didn't get a chance to mention. And let me know which of these re-ups is more interesting to you or most interesting to you. We had Draymond back to the Warriors, four years, 100 million player option in the fourth. Kyle Kuzma, four years, 102 million. Chris Middleton to the box,

three years, 102 million with a player option. Cam Johnson to the Nets, four years, 108 million. Herb Jones, four years, 54 million. I'm sure there's a few others that I left out, but any of those strike you was like, oh, that's mildly interesting. Yeah, even though Dremont to the Warriors was

predictable and all reports indicated that it was going to happen after they traded Jordan Poole for Chris Paul. I still think this is really meaningful And I think that at the number that Golden State got him at is a win for them. It's a win for him considering 267 days ago he punched Jordan Poole in the face and it looked like he might never play another game for the Warriors ever again.

And now they're giving him $100 million with a player option in the fourth year that's amazing for a 33-year-old. But he's still one of the best, if not the best defenders in the entire NBA. and Steve Kirk kind of shot their leverage in his last press press conference saying that they're just not a contender without him. They have no chance to win the championship, and that is an accurate statement. So bringing him back was huge. Yeah. Bringing him back was huge. So I like that for them.

And, you know, they cut their tax bill, getting him to take a $4, $5 million pay cut in the first year of the deal. Like, that's cool, I guess. but Joe Lakeb was really happy about it. So that one was just, I think that's significant, if nothing else. It's not surprising. It's significant. You know, like, why did the Wizards give Kyle Kuzma $102 million? Can you explain that one to me?

I assume it's sort of like the Brown thinking where we have to hit the salary floor. And we should mention for the audience now in the new CBA, you have to spend 90% of the cap before the first day of the regular season as opposed to the last day. So you can no longer do what, for instance, the basers did with Miles Turner and wait until around the deadline and just give him a lump sum of money. You have to spend that all now. And so I assume this is probably a wink, wink, hey, we're going to pay you more than you could probably get from Sacramento, from an Indiana. And then if this doesn't work out, when this doesn't work out, we're going to send you somewhere tournaments, right? And as we're seeing with Hardin, perhaps, maybe it's a little bit easier to

get around to a contending team via a trade as opposed to in free agency, it just opens up opportunities for a team like the Clippers that's willing to overpay for certain players. And so I assume this is a wink-wink sort of situation. Otherwise, I don't know what's happening because it's basically going to be Kyle Kuzman and Jordan Poole, like trading off 30-point shot at 10 nights like basketball Eskimo brothers. So I don't know. It could get pretty bleak if they're they're planning for the long term here. But if it's like a stopgap asset play, I'm for it. So then why isn't it two years?

Like that's just the part I just like don't understand. Why isn't it a two year $50 million contract? Like I, and even moving on from this. Or less? Oh, it's less. Less. It's more if it's shorter. I don't think anyone wants to take on salary.

That's kind of the trend going around right now in the league. So like I, the length is almost a detriment. But yeah, I don't know. I feel like the market just kind of dried up around him. Obviously, there was the Kings. Clearly the Pacers weren't interested. Clearly the Rockets weren't interested.

Well, the Kings is a good example, though. If you're Coosma, why not just take $25 million for the Kings? They had that. I know it would have probably restricted what they could do on top of that. They ended up bringing back Harry B. and bringing back Trey Liles. So they got more for their money rather than just focus on a Cusma. But personally, I thought that fit was way better, a better move for Cusma individually.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I don't think it was his call. But. Which is insane, by the way, considering the trade they made in draft night in order to open up that space. They got Chris Duarte, you know. That's true. They did. Another victim of Bruce Brown. Yeah.

Yeah, I'm just looking around. As we're recording, a trade just happened. I don't know if you're aware, if you're up to it, if I'm breaking news to you right now. So you're saying you're only half listening to my gripings about the Sacramento Kings' off season? No, I'm locked in on everything you say, Justin, don't worry. But the Wizards, speaking of the Wizards, traded Monte Morris to the Detroit Pistons. I just I think the Pistons are low-key, the biggest dumpster fire in the NBA right now. I feel really bad for their fans, and we don't need to have a big Piston segment.

Actually, they did make another trade today with taking Joe Harris into their cap space. Like, bizarre. So, yeah, that was just a thing that happened. But going back to the contracts that you laid out earlier, I thought Middleton would get more, frankly. You know, 3102 pretty big number. It's more than Draymond got, frankly. And with Middleton's injury history,

I figured that Draymond, who has been pretty durable and he was a little bit older, different kind of player, but all money considered, I think I'd rather have, Draymond on my team, or I think that just financially that they are more equal than this.

And I also think, like, if that's all Milwaukee was willing to give him, I'm a little surprised he wasn't able to get more if he wanted more. If no team out there was willing to give four years to get Chris Middleton, kind of surprised me or even going higher on the annual amount over three years. Because he's still, like, really good, I think, when healthy, is there like a serious knee problem that's just like, that's not going to get better? I don't know. He's been banged up over the past few years, but I just thought that if I was Middleton, I would be able to squeeze the bucks a little bit more because I have a ton of leverage right now, and it's similar to the situation. Brooke Lopez, who is unsigned, is in where it's like, you guys need me. So 102 is a little low is kind of just my snap reaction to that contract. Yeah, I guess we'll see what else they end up doing this offseason. Maybe it was a way to clear more

space for Lopez and do other things on the margin. I don't know, but I agree with you. There was a little bit surprising because I believe he opted out of what, 40 million in his last year, which is a handsome sum, and he definitely took a pay cut off of that. Yeah. Fred, uh, Herb Jones, the Pelicans, a little curious, if only because they opted out of his deal and sent him to restricted free agency a year before he was actually, actually had to. And then so now they're paying him, I believe, 12 million as opposed to 2 million. And now on the one hand, you reward him for what has been a pretty awesome success story coming from the fringe's, I believe, second round of the draft, to becoming like one of the most

intriguing young players in the league. But on the other hand, it seems like a weird piece of business. And I believe it sends the Pelicans into the tax for the first time in franchise history. So I don't know, that one jumped out to me is just a little curious. Yeah. I mean, I think everybody loves Herb Jones. I am trying to scour their tax situation right now live as we pod, but I just, you know, exactly, big picture.

Like I like the price for him. Was it like 12 annually? Something around there, if my math is accurate. Like that's a pretty good price for someone who is in the conversation for best on an off ball perimeter defender in basketball who will presumably continue to get better on a team that

I guess like, you know, the pelicans are really in a weird place for a lot of a variety of reasons, but I think if they want to go places, having someone like Herb Jones along for the ride makes a lot of sense.

So locking him up right now before anything could get screwy. And then also So it's, if you are in the mood to flip Herb Jones in a deal, this contract is easier to do so. It would be my reaction to all of it. That's a good point. I just think my general POV on restricted free agents is always like, it's kind of a bogeyman. Like, we always worry about like, oh, this gangbusters offer that's just going to totally screw up your cap sheet.

And she's like, do those ever really come outside of like the August, Ennis Cantor, Hail Mary that is done? barely out of spite. But maybe some team would have done that. And if, like you said, if the Pelicans have to like finally manicure their cap in order to stay out of the tax and or the second apron, like that makes some sense here. Just a couple last guys left on the board here.

Brooke Lopez, Dylan Brooks. We got the Austin Reeves, the Angela Russell situation, Max Trues, Russell Westbro, a couple others. Any of these just jump out to you is like the thing you're looking out for going forward? Or is this all just kind of low rent in comparison

into like whatever happens with dame and hardin no i think that these are impact players um max truce is really interesting i thought that he was earmarked for orlando made a lot of sense in orlando and they signed joe ingles uh just that that one's just like i someone's gonna have to explain that one to me i don't i do not understand it at all. I don't get like being I just yeah I have so many questions just makes no sense and I love Joe Ingalls but it just did that one just makes no sense. But I thought you know Cleveland they use their or part of their mid-level on Georgian Yang I thought that Max Drews was a really clean fit there and I think Max

Juice is better and he's better than George Nying and then also I think can be more useful in a playoff series where, you know, George Nyang has been known to be unplayable in high leverage situation. So we'll see if that holds true in Cleveland. But I just thought Max Trues was a really nice fit there. Maybe that still happens. There's been reports about some like sign and trade, three-team sign-and-trade involving Max Drus to get him to Cleveland. I don't really understand how that'll work. So he's interesting to me and where he'll go is still a question mark. I am maybe the only person alive who still thinks Dylan Brooks is really good at basketball. So I was a little surprised to see no one go after him with, I guess like people are

kind of waiting to see who's left so they can teams with their mid-level to spend, seeing who's out there, just kind of being patient there with a guy like Dylan Brooks. But I think he can have an impact on a really good team. And I think Memphis could miss him. I mean, I like how Memphis is so far pseudo-replaced him. But yeah, I'm just higher on Dylan Brooks than a lot of people, I think. And the guy made an all-defense team last year, and he's not really even in his prime yet. So that's really an interesting piece.

And seeing where he ends up will be pretty interesting. The player you don't have listed here, who I'm keeping my eye on is Eric Gordon. I think he has to clear waivers before he's allowed to sign anywhere, who was just waived or cut by the Los Angeles Clippers. But I think he's still like really good and always been a fan of his game. I thought he played pretty well in that first round series against the Phoenix Suns in a really tough situation where they had him like guarding Kevin. Durant and Devin Booker. And I think if you have him in a more appropriate role, he can have, he can give you like really good minutes if you're a really good team.

And he would be awesome on, you know, we mentioned, we were talking about Dallas earlier, like Eric Gordon on Dallas really fits. I think he accentuates Luca, accentuates Kyrie. So he's someone who's still really good who's out there. And then Brooke Lopez, everyone just kind of assumes he's going to Houston, I think, is like the vibe right now. And I don't know, I don't think that that's, I don't like that. That's not the vibe.

I don't see why. We spent all this time talking about Houston earlier and throwing Brooke Lopez into that. I don't, you're not, you're still not going to be competing for the plane. You know what I mean? And he's 35 years old. So that one, I don't get it. I would love to see him in Oklahoma City, frankly, and I think they still have like $15 or $16 million worth of cap space.

And if Milwaukee is hard pressed and doesn't want to spend that much on him on a two or three year deal, I think that could be really interesting. But also San Antonio still has cap space. So Brooke Lopez, I feel like it's still a question mark. You can obviously still go back to Milwaukee, and they really need him. But those are like the most pressing storyline. far, but I do think that the players who are not signed are really interesting. So what I took away from that is you would like to see a Brooke Lopez, Chet Holmgren,

Davis-Bertan, Center Rotation, Oklahoma City. Yes, yes, yes, yes. You just want the cornyest group of centers ever around one of our precious young gems and Shea Gildesress Alexander. Best, give me the best defense in the NBA and give me Shea and let him cook, and we are going to the playoffs, baby. Okay. So we're going to end this podcast, but we're not going to talk about.

about the Chicago Bulls because I want you to just have a pure first day of free agency experiments, at least on this podcast as opposed to whatever you have going on for the website and otherwise. I appreciate that. I'm about to go to bed. I don't want to really let them cloud my brain and my thoughts and everything before I shut my eyes. So that's a shout out to you.

I appreciate you. I don't want to talk about the Chicago Bulls. I'm here for you. All right. We're going to wrap it there. The Ringer NBA show feed is. going to be around all weekend capturing some of the best deals on the market that are left out there. Thanks to the mic for joining us. Thank you to Eduardo Campo on production. We'll be back

next time. We'll see it.