The Ringer NBA Show - Breaking Down the Dallas Mavericks’ Recent Struggles, and Do We Believe Their Raps? Plus, ‘Snowfall’ Talk. | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

Logan and Raja are back to share their thoughts on the Dallas Mavericks’ major struggles since trading for Kyrie Irving and what it means for the future of their partnership (3:00). Next, they bring back Do We Believe Their Raps? to debate the status of teams fighting for playoff spots in the West as the final stretch of the regular season approaches (25:45). Later, Kerm joins the guys for ‘Snowfall’ talk (49:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's no secret the NFL has a problem with race. Think Colin Kaepernick. Think Brian Flores. But this isn't a new problem. It's one that started as far back as the 1930s, with a ban on black players in the NFL, with a past that informs the present. Blackbald is a new mini-series podcast from The Ringer

about the four men who broke the color barrier in football. I'm your host, Chelsea Stark Jones. You can find Blackballed on the Ringer NFL feed. What's popping? Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there. I've been recording for six minutes on record right now because Kerm has beef with me. And somehow you have beef with Kerm right now going into this podcast. You just got back from vacation and you got beef with Kerm? I think, I think, and this could be maybe a question we ask the listeners. I'm better when I have a little beef. I think I'm better when I have a little beef. So if I have to manufacture that beef up top, like I didn't, to your point, I'm fresh off of vacate.

I'm like six shades darker. You know, it was really relaxing. There's no real juice flowing. So I manufacture some beef with Kern this morning and I'm ready to rock. So full transparency of what happened in the prepod meeting. Now, the last, I was to keep it real. Anyone who has listened to the last couple episodes, of our audio has just been fucked up.

Like either me or Raj's audio has just been messed up, right? And Kerm was doing a great job as our fucking producer. And it was just like, hey, guys, your audio has been fucked up. We need you guys to just make sure that your audio is good. And Raj's old ass goes, I quote, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we ain't going to do that. We ain't coming out the gates because I'm going to have to be with you. The old ass is unnecessary in a moment.

First of all, crime was telling us to. check. He was telling us to check the audio, which is fair. More than fair. I've got no problem with that. I said, my audio is checked. It's working. Then Kerm said, I need you to look at the audio and make sure. And I'm like, yo, my boy, I'm 46 years old, bro. I didn't already told you. My audio is working. You know what I don't see a problem with that? You know what? You know why I said old as well? It's because you quote said, I am 46 years old, motherfucker. I don't need the audio being checked. Those are your words. That's why I call. called you old because you said a very old curmudgeon thing to say.

No, that was just illustrating that I'm not seven. And if I've told you that it's already on, then it's on. That ain't got nothing to do with being old, man. Once you pass a certain benchmark of age, if I tell you I've done it, it's done. All right. I just want to say, Kermen been lifting that 315 on the bench press. He's ready to roll. You know what I'm saying is all I'm saying.

He's ready to go. He's looking like. Kerm are good because now my beef is with. so we could pod, let's rock. All right, bro. Oh, man. I don't even know where to start. How was vacation?

Was vacation good? Vacation life was good, man. Sometimes it's, you know, in my post-NBA life, the only real decompression time you have during the year is that spring break. And you forget about how fast pace your world is moving and how much stuff is going on or how little time you have to actually soak everybody in and your family and stuff like that. And then spring break comes around.

And at first, you're like, well, what the hell are we going to do? Like, we don't have games. We don't have practices. There's no school to go to. And you're itching. And then as you settle into it, man, it's dope. Bro, you get a little bit of time with everybody. It was cool, man.

We had a good time. Yeah. No, it was, I was happy y'all got to go, man. I was happy because, like, I don't know, man. Spring break seems lit. And we saw a little preview, you guys. before you dipped. Look nice, man.

Appreciate that. Thank you. I'm ready to go, though. I'm back. I mean, it's that time of year. What we? Two weeks? T-minus two weeks.

Yeah. There are a couple of teams, though, Raza, that are also looking for an early vacation from this season. They're trying hard. They're really trying hard.

The one team that I've been seeing is the Dallas Mavericks. Oh, my gosh. Talk. Talk. Talk. Okay. So over the weekend, they go and they play the Charlotte Hornets in Dallas.

They lose to the point where Luca Dantius is talking about he's losing his joy, right? There are reports out there that Kyrie Irving's professionalism is really, really keeping the team afloat. We're getting nose. We're getting, yeah, yeah, Roger, we're here, we're here. And so we're getting those, right? And then the Dallas Mavericks go to Charlotte. and take another L. And it's one of those excruciating ales where, you know,

Charlotte's winning most of the game. The less talented team is winning the game and up double digits. And then Dallas goes up and they cut it to five here, cut it to one here, cut it to seven here, and they still lose the game. It was one of those, it was like the hard games in the back stretch of the season. And now at this very moment,

the Dallas Mavericks are out of the playing turn. proceedings at this very moment in time in terms of the standings. What has been your read of the Dallas Mavericks? And where do they go from here, man? Because it's just, it's really sad. It's one of those things for me, even if they do make it into the postseason, it's going to be an easy out for them. They're going to lose.

I don't believe them to be a team. They just don't have good juju at this moment. And I don't like what I'm seeing. Well, I mean, I would agree with you. I don't like what I'm seeing either right now in this snapshot of a moment. I think you're feeling. The feelings of the MAVs currently would to some degree be a reflection on how you felt and what you felt their ceiling was going to be post-trained, right?

Like if you were in the camp of thinking they were going to win a championship with Kyrie immediately, then obviously you're going to be like losing your mind and feeling like, you know, that this house is on fire. I did not necessarily think that that move at that time was going to put them in a championship contention like category. It wasn't going to raise their level to that degree like that. I thought, you know, and maybe maybe I'm in the wrong for this. Like I'm not speaking for anyone with the Mavs. Where they were as a franchise wasn't knocking on the door of winning a chip. Even though you won, you know, the way you did last year and beat the Sons and stuff like that,

I didn't, the way you were playing this year didn't necessarily suggest that. You're in a place like where you're competitive. You're going to make the playoffs. You've got this super star and Luca Donchage, but it hasn't proven to be enough. And we're looking to pair him with something that can get us over the hump. And so that might not mean that we're going to win this year, but we got to find a way to attain that star, like find that talent, get that talent in-house right now, and then build from there. And so that's where I was with the match.

And while it doesn't look great right now, I think you're positioned in a way where you can see if these two really work together, if this talent, this dual of talent is going to be complimentary and then the move was moving forward from here like next year once we start to put pieces around it to to you know build build the team in in the way that you want to build the team to support those two and so it doesn't look great i'm not pointing any fingers i just think it's one of those things and it's always it's always a possibility when you make a move like that late in the season for everybody not to be clicking on all cylinders and that's there's some funk right now in in Dallas.

I got to be honest with you, Roger, when I see the Dallas Mavericks in there and how they've, at least in the last few years, have built or tried to build around Luca, it reminds me a lot. And it's two things. It speaks to how hard it is to build a team around a superstar in this league.

But the second thing is it reminds me of when, you know, LeBron's first few years in the league, when you have this great, great player and you don't, you're having trouble building around him. So what you do is instead of like systematically building a team around him, you go and you make a trade here to figure it out, right?

You make a, you make an ill-advised trade on one hand that doesn't work out. Let's talk about Chris Stops for being this. You could say what you want about him as a player. But it just by and large didn't work alongside Luca. And then, you know, you trade for Christian Wood. Well, maybe that'll work, right? And then somehow, and then I've come around on this, right? get rid of Jalen Brunson, like he's offended by the offer that you give him, right? And then so

he goes on to another team. And then you trade for Kyrie to just like not only get a superstar into the mix, but also cover up the mistakes that you just made as a front office. And so like, I'm seeing these moves and it seems like a lot of band-aids are being put on the roster instead of an actual systematic approach. And we have more things to consider. you know, for the off season. Like, this isn't a finished project by any means, but there's still question marks. Is Kyrie going to come back next season?

He holds all the leverage here. So you're going to have to pay him no matter what. And that goes to your point a few years, about a year ago when I was like, is Kyrie going to be good in the league? And you were like, somebody's going to pay him, Logan, right? So you got that on him.

He's going to, you know, he has you over the barrel. And then you don't know, you don't know how you're, you're still in the same position of how, you are going to build the roster is it's it's just band-aids at this point and you don't really have a hold on what the roster is going to be and there's even been criticism on jason kid and him as a coach going down the backstretch of this season there's just so many question marks and i wish that there was just a more um refined approach to a front office ship overall and i just wish that they just had it seemed like there was more of a plan instead of every move being reactionary raja um

That's a lot. Look, everybody is under a more magnified kind of microscope when you're losing, right? We can point fingers and everyone's culpable. You know, every player, every member of the front office, every coach, everyone's got their part to play in both winning and losing. Like, where you can't sit here and say that supporting cast and coaches and give them all their credit for winning and then only want to point to stars and stuff when we lose. Like, we can't do that. everybody's got their role to play in that. So let me start there.

But let me just say that I want to be careful because I've said this before. And Luca is this amazing talent. Like he's as gifted. And I mean that as there is in the NBA with the ball in his hands and his ability to create and get a bucket and just skill level off the charts. But it plays a certain way. And so, you know, you could be. There is a world in which you are.

trying to put pieces around Luca for the last how many years? I mean, I don't know, forgive me. 2017, about five years. Five, six, yeah. You've been trying to put pieces around Luca in ways, you know, that would help get you guys over the hump, but they haven't necessarily done the job that you thought they could do. And that's not all the way they're fault.

Like, LeBron is like this, too, like two. like to play with LeBron in any effective way, like you would have to give up some of what you did if you were a playmaker and a ball usage person, right? Like, think about, you know, the Kay loves or and the, and the Chris Bosch. You know, the Chris Bosch's, but those were threes. But even the number two's in those scenarios,

even D. Wade in year two with heat, had to say, hey, this is yours now. I will be the number two, thus giving up a little bit of himself, right? And so I think that there is a world in which you're trying to put pieces around Luca and you expect them to look a certain way and you think that they should do X, Y, and Z. And because of style of play, they're not able to do that. Right. And so then you've got to pivot and move and try to find the next piece and the next piece. And so now you're at Kyrie who also plays like Luca.

So you're like, look, yeah, the whole NBA right now is predicated on, you know, pace ball movement, you know, spread in the floor. getting up and down, maximizing possessions and so on and so forth. Luca doesn't necessarily play like that. We're going to get another guy who can just you know, ISO and dance.

So if Luca can't, he can and we know that they both do it and everyone else can just spot shoot. And so this is a very weird team to have to build and have to figure out because you've got to start that's as good as Luca is but plays a certain way. you know and and I'm not I'm not absolving the Mavs front office from having made mistakes in their quest to find this person or this team that that really accentuates and highlights, you know, Luca in a way that can produce championships. But it could be more difficult than if you had a really versatile star, a person that could, you know, play in multiple ways and do multiple things.

Luca is going to play a certain way. It's the way he plays basketball. And so you have to figure out the recipe around that. you know, Alan Iverson was a great example of that, like early, early when I got to play with Alan, there was a certain recipe that worked, right? And when I say worked, I'm talking about at the level that could get you to the finals. Those guys are so good that you can always win games with them. Like, they're that good at talent, right?

They're going to win games. They're going to put up points. But the supporting cast that can help them get to the championship has to be cut from a certain cloth. And the Mavs are trying to figure that out. And that's what, and I think that's why I am very hesitant to, even if they get to the postseason, think about any type of postseason success with them because I just don't like their supporting cast at all. I am completely out on their supporting cast. I see a guy like, you know, I see Christian Wood. I'm not all in on that.

You know, I think he's, I don't know, I don't think he's designed for the role that he's currently in is like a starting center. Like maybe somebody that comes off the bench, he can be an effective point. player, but not in the current role that he's in. I love Tim Hardaway. I think he's a good. I think he's a boy. I think he's really good. But other than that, like, I'm not, I'm just looking down the roster.

I'm like, do I see anyone that I can trust in like the second round in a game five? Like, no, I don't, other than Kyrie and those three guys I named, Kyrie, Tim Hardaway, and Luca, that's it. That's only people I even see being on that level of basketball player. So they got a lot of things to figure out. But, you know, the biggest question is, I think I want you to put your GM hat on, the biggest question is here, you've had a sample size of Kyrie and Luca together, right? And I think I'm of the mind that you have to keep the asset, right? No matter how good he, no matter what the plan is, how hard are you going to keep Kyrie in your organization?

And not even on a character trait, right? But like you've seen a sample size of how, or a small sample size of how they go together. Are you saying, you know, we're going to sign him. We're going to, we like some potential that we saw. We like some of the good times of them playing together. We're going to build on that. Or are you, like, what are you saying going into the offseason your MAV's GM? I really hope that I haven't underestimated the MAV's front office and ownership group

to the point where they would have made a move like this and given it a three-month window of time to look good together. Like if they made a move like that of that magnitude under that criteria that it has to look good in these three months or we're moving off of, I've grossly overestimated them. And I don't think I have. Like I've got the utmost respect for Mark Cuban and Nico Harrison and Cruz. So I think if I'm them, this was a long-term play.

Like we're not, we've, there's something in Kyrie, you know, and I get it. I told you this before. Like you just alluded to it. That's, that's it, that is a, a bag of talent that is exploding from every scene, right? And so you've said, we think this will work. It may not have borne fruit right away, but we're, if we can, if we can come to an agreement with him, like, because I don't know what he's asking for or what the situation looks like, but, you know, we wouldn't, we wouldn't necessarily be afraid to pay a market.

I'm not, I'm not trying to like do anything stupid necessarily. I think, you know, having flexibility and some leverage with Kyrie is probably, going to be every team in the league so the Mavericks would be no different in this conversation. But if we could get all of those things done and the numbers are good, I want Kyrie. Because I want to see what this looks like as we get

into an offseason, as we can go shopping and free agency for pieces that we might not have had the opportunity to get around the trade deadline that we think pair nicely with these two. So yeah, I'm keeping Kyrie. Now, you know, I,

Kyrie's, Kyrie in terms of a locker room guy and a professional has been really good in Dallas so far, right? And as long as that's happening and we're working towards this goal and we still have a roadmap to success, at least in our minds, I'm good with that. Because where do you go? If you punt on Kyrie, let's say, sorry for cutting you off, but let's say you, let's say it's not a situation where you guys can't come to an agreement. and Kyrie is like, yo, I can't come to an agreement with them. I got to move on.

Like a Lamar Jackson. Like, if you don't do your best job to keep him and you say, all right, we're out. Where are you going now? What are we doing? After we just made the trade, like I don't understand at that point, right? Yeah, and then you just,

and then you're sitting at Luca like, what do you say to Luca after that, right? Like he's, and Lucas has been, by all intents of purposes, Luca has been a good soldier through all of this, man. You ain't heard Lucas, like, doing those sublims about the roster or anything. Like, I mean, I think you've definitely,

I will say that you did hear that athletic story back in a couple, like a couple years ago. I think Tim Kato and Amick did that story. But by and large, Luca has all the power in this. And he could flex his muscles, I think, a bit more than he does. And he hasn't done that to his credit.

So I think that when it comes to Kyrie, barring like, you know, the last two summers, Kairi have kind of been a little too lit for his, you know, for, for, for, for, uh, both him and the team that he plays for. Hopefully for this season, he can, this summer means he has a plan of knowing who he's going to play for next season. He knows that he's going to have a full training camp with these guys and they can, if it all goes perfect, they will have a training camp and they will have a better roster than they do right now and they can go make a run at it. It does, and also, and also,

So if they lose, Roger, here's another thing. If they lose and don't make the postseason, they have a top 10, they did trade a pick to the Nix, but it's top 10 protected. If they get that number one pick, Roger, and they get Victor Wimbignana, then what? Then what? And then they sign Karee, then what?

What are you seeing now? They build a roster. Is that a championship, is that a championship roster right there? No. Eventually, maybe Victor Weimegov is not coming in. in the league in my estimation and helping you win the championship next year. Do you know what I mean? Like I just, he's going to need some time.

Like we, you know, we had Wendy on and he was telling you like, you know, how, how he's got all of these amazing traits. But there is going to be a learning curve for him, right? This isn't a wemen, and yama. But yeah, I mean, look, now you've got, now you've got at least in theory, the three pieces and like, you know, the trio of people talent-wise that would eventually, whether that's year two or three,

like I don't know, but I don't know that it would be year one. Can you dig what I'm saying? I just, again, I'm going to go back to pace, right? Like, there's no secret as to why, you know, the Mavericks pace of play is like third worst in the league.

You know, you're, you've got, you've got these amazing, singular offensive players that, that, can do incredible things with the ball. You go down and look at,

but the key is to not be that low. even with guys that can do that, is to have the pace, you know, middle of the NBA pack, where it still gives you some room, if you're Kyrie or Luca, to do what you do with the ball when, you know, shit's not going well.

And, you know, a team has a scouted and our action isn't producing anything or the others on the team are off. Whatever that looks like, boom, we can still drop into this. But the pace, in a lot of instances, allows the mees of the world, the supporting cast of the world

to get off in a way that can help support you with enough points that now your 33 win the game instead of your 42 losing the game. So they have to find a happy medium of picking that pace up and it doesn't have to go to number one in the league where Luca never has the ball in his hands and Kyrie never can dance and be this brilliant player.

But it can't be bottom third in the league and be bad defensively. You can't do that. Exactly. And also to your point about just like making sure that all the points to get, you know, deviated and stuff like that and make sure that they, like, that it's evenly dispersed. And obviously, like, you have Kyrie and you have Luca that they're going to be, like, they're always going to be high use as guys. But, like, every once in a while, you want a box score where, like, Kyrie had 19 and 5. Luca had at 21 and 7 and they win by 35.

Like, you know, you want everyone, you want a game like that, and that speaks to the core, like the supporting cast. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to articulate a little bit. You did a little better job there of me, and that's twofold, right? Like, that's number one.

You touched on it, having maybe some higher level talent in some instances, and I'm not throwing any shade. Like I haven't broken down the Mavs roster, but your talent has to be able to produce, right? Like your supporting cast has to be able to produce, but you have to provide a platform for them to produce. And in a lot of instances, you know, and I say this all the time, a lot of us mid-level guys,

you know, your meat and potatoes, hard hat kind of journeyman type of guys, we feel like given some opportunity we can produce, you know, but like if we're just standing there watching, then, you know, it's always going to come down to someone saying, hey, Luca's got no support. and I'm standing over there like, well, fuck. I mean, I'd love to help support, but, you know, I don't get any shots. And so, you know, you have to find a happy medium. Under no circumstance, am I saying that the ball should come out of Luca's hands all the time and he shouldn't have the autonomy to get into his shit whenever he wants to.

But you've got to pick the pace up to a degree that allows some of those dudes to do what you're talking about, Logan. So if everyone's cooking on a certain night, hey, Luca, Kyrie. you ain't got to have 40 and 30, man. We got you. You can have that 19 and that 22 with a bunch of assists, and we're going to blow someone out. You know what I mean? But, like, they have such a small margin for error

when you're bad defensively and your paces. So those two have to be, they've got to be on. And even when they're on, they're going to have to hit a game winning shot to beat you. I mean, it makes for exciting basketball, but damn, you know, like every night of that, right? Right. How many years do you think that it takes to build a roster?

like this, right, to build a roster that can't compete in your mind. Like, obviously you got the two pillars, right? You got Kyrie and Luca. But how many years do you think that it takes to build out the rest of that, or to take one off season? I think it'll take one off season because of the point in their careers that they are at, Luca and Kai. They're both ready to win right now. Like, they're both in the prime.

Like, they're ready to win now. So you just got to get the recipe right around them, you know? You're not looking. Now, again, if you throw Webanyama, like, let's say hypothetically, in that mix, and he's going to be an integral part in the winning of a championship, then I think you're talking about another year out, because I don't know that he's ready for that.

But if you go out and you have identified and you're targeting certain players on your wish list and you're going to hit on more of those than you miss on, I think that you could flip that and be ready to play, you know, be ready to be in the mix next year. We'll see, man. It's very intriguing the Dallas Mavericks. Let's take a quick break.

And we're going to play a game of Do We Believe Their Raps, Raja? And now, live from the Real One Studios, this is Do We Believe Their Raps? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got all the fucking vibes. Okay. Got the production value up. You see the lives. All right, guys, it's another edition.

It's time for another edition of Do We Believe Their Raps? where our panel of esteemed producers put together a few questions for me and you to answer rah-rah. Just as we are in this NBA season, just to see where the NBA season is that. So, all right, this is just going to build off of our last segment. This is from Kiggity Kerm. Should the Mavs just pack it up and get on the tank bandwagon or just try to string together some wins behind Luca and Kyrie? only one way to play this that's the only one way to play this

you're trying to win you're trying to win we're talking about maybe this not being this year but a build into the future like I don't you're not set in precedent or culturally like with Luca and Kyrie in the building talking about tanking unless someone is injured

and can't play but no hell no we're trying to win some games we're not that now if you far out of playing now if you do like I would say you shouldn't tanked I mean, I wouldn't say under any circumstances. Like, if you have, like, nobody on your team, it just is what it is.

You've got to do what you got to do. But, like, if you have Kyrie and Luca on a team, they will revolt if you even go out and say we're tanking or if you even put out the notion. Now, if you do, like, end up losing by playing hard, it's not the worst thing in the world in this draft. Okay? If you fuck around and get a number one pick,

it's not the worst thing in the world. So I say, you know, go try to get some lends, Because it also builds, here's another thing that messes up with tanking. It just builds a bad president and just, it sets a bad tone just in general because all you're doing is going into every game to lose. It just, it doesn't, it doesn't set a good culture anyway when that happens, right? Even if you try to do it, you have to make the illusion that you're not just to keep the culture, right? It's going around the league. The thunder bounced back after losing to the Lakers on Friday night with the wind against the blazers on Sunday.

have a tied record with the Lakers of 37 and 38. If you had to pick between this young Thunder team with SGA, Giddy, and Lute Dort, and this newly formed Lakers squad going into the playing tournament, who are you riding with, Raja? Going into this play-in tournament, I'm going with the Lakers, even though they didn't look good yesterday with LeBron coming back. I just, you know, LeBron A.D., I'm going to go with them. And forgive me, I'm sorry, it's probably stupid at this point.

but I'm going to go with them. Now, if you had asked me, like, what core am I going with moving forward and you threw the big, what's a big fella's name that hurt his foot? Chet, Holmgren? Chet Holmgren? Yep.

Into the mix with Oklahoma City. Oh, I'm going to go ahead with that. I'm going to actually double down on that, Roger. I'm not going to, I'm not going to say, I'm going to actually pick the thunder. Okay. And for one game in the play-in, I might pick the thunder.

Okay. Like, me and you watch enough Laker game, You, I'm so sorry that you had to even put yourself through that. But the Lakers, there are three different personalities on a given day. You never know what's going to happen. You never know how it's going to work. And I just trust what this Thunder team is building right now. There's just, there's so much dysfunction in Los Angeles right now.

It's not even good dysfunction. Every day is just something, dog. It's just, it's so annoying. I don't even know how third Ikeye and Kerm do this. I don't know how they keep doing this. It's tough. Also, quick note. And we've been meaning to get your opinion for the last day.

Did you see what Pat Beth did to LeBron yesterday? Did you see? Did you see it? Where he scores on LeBron and says LeBron is too small. Usually on normal occasions, you know we don't condone that on the real ones podcast. We don't like that. I had to respect it.

I personally had to respect it on that one. I normally don't condone it when you're like losing and, you know, time and place with that. But that one was perfect. I mean, it was some G shit. That was perfect. And here's the thing. But, you know, obviously, I've had my issue at times with the Pat Bev antics and stuff like that.

But Mr. Huddle up himself. He is, yes, dude. He is consistent. He is with that at all times, no matter who you are or no matter where he is. So, I mean, he hit the nail on the head. other day. Like, it was perfect, man. Got him down. Stop. A little turn, little kind of half baby hook over LeBron and then too smalled him and then kind of giggled. Oh, man, that shit was funny to me. And then guarded him and LeBron threw that three up and bricked. And like, Pat Bibbs just won

that whole thing. Because also, I believe Pat Bibbs' raps. I know that wasn't the question, but I believe him because he came in and he said, yo, we're going to come in and I'm going, we're going to beat the Lakers. I'm going to beat the Lakers. They're going to show how they have me messed up. Woo, wow. And he did it. Also, he had some interesting comments, though, about Darwin Ham and just like, yo, man, you have me guarding these wings all the time, just have me playing out of position and things like that.

And just saying all these things, one, we have enough of a sample size. What do you, do you believe Darwin Ham's reps as a coach right now? That's a tough. I don't want to be unfair to Darwin Ham. He was handed. He was handed a ticking, like, time. He was handed a grenade with no pin. Yep.

You know what I mean? And I get it. Like when you are a young coach, especially a minority coach, when opportunities present themselves, sometimes you don't have the luxury of sitting there and being like, nah, no, no, I'm good. That one doesn't look like the most stable situation. You got to just jump and take it, get your feet in. But he was handed a grenade.

And so I don't know what, I don't know how I could put a fair criticism. him on what he's done so far. There's just, to your point, it's a team with multiple personality, like, disorder to some degree. Like, they're just all over the place. It's been that way from the start with the Russ situation to the, to the, you name it, the injuries, the chasing of the Kareem agenda there for a while. Like, you know, there was a, there's a lot in a season for a first time damn head coach.

This is, I think the Lakers job is the, especially. Especially right now with the roster construction and just, you know, the overall dysfunction and everything that goes into just being a Laker, I think that's the toughest job in the league right now. At this very moment, it's the toughest job in the league because usually when you, I agree with you, I believe Darvindham is a good coach and I think that that will bear fruit throughout his career. I think right now, though, it's really hard to be a head coach in that type of situation because we both know this, Raja, your first year is about implementing things. Your first year as a head coach, implementing your philosophy and trying to set a tone.

Remember, Steve Kerr said, like, he didn't even have a play. He didn't even have the full playbook in the first year when he was with the Warriors. He just did it, right? And that's under normal circumstances. With Darwin Ham, he has to do, he has to put out fires, making sure Russ is okay on a daily basis. Make sure he doesn't have LeBron mad about something and sulking, right? making sure AD is going to be healthy on a day-in-day-out basis, right?

And then making sure he's implementing sets. Just a simple thing of implementing sets and time-out structure and how when substitution structures, how do you even make sure you have a substitution structure when you don't even know who's going to play on a day-and-day-out basis? No, all of that is very fair.

And, you know, I have a little bit of experience with this having dealt with a first-time NBA head coach in David Blatt on a LeBron James team and the expectations and the microscope that he was under consistently, not just by the media, not just by the players, but by the front office and ownership. We had daily conversations about, you know, this cat and whether he was the guy. And I mean, you know, the questions that I would have to field from ownership and, you know, David Griffin and company about what I felt as a former player

this looked like to the team and how his message was getting across and wasn't handled right like and that was a guy mind you David Blatt who had coached and won multiple European League championships he was a seasoned veteran of a coach for a dude taking the reins

for the very first time in Darwin Ham to be met with all of what we just talked about in terms of the distractions and the things going on in L.A. in general but add to that the LeBron James effect And I don't, this is a gift and a curse, right? LeBron is obviously great, but it is win now and it is, it's all being scrutinized it at every turn. You can't even really get comfortable, man. Like that's, you can't. Like you can't get comfortable. There's no time to be comfortable. You hop in and you're immediately like trying to keep your head above water. There's, there's no period of time that you're graced where people are like, yo, just let him get his feet wet. Let let us see how this starts to look in. a little while. Let him lay his foundation. Nah. Nah.

Because that doesn't exist. I can't imagine, Rajin, being in a job where like every single day is scrutinized. Every single day that you are, that you are trying to coach, it's scrutinized, bro. The injury report is scrutinized. And on top of that, that happens usually when you're just a Laker, right? You put the LeBron factor into that. It just supersedes everything, man. And then you got to deal with that on top of the fact that the, we, I don't even know if we're even going to fully appreciate the Russ tenure in L.A. We got, we need some, a few years to decompress from that just to just, just to really just think about the day in and day out of what that was, right? And then you have the brief two week, like, trying to be a coach, then you have the brief two week rumor that Kyrie's coming, right?

And then you got to like, just figure that out and just go, it is, it is so stressful to be a Lakers coach on top of the fact that you have to coach LeBron on James. I don't envy anyone that has to do that at all. Facts. Facts. So the jury would then still be out for me on Darwin. Okay. Before we get to the next one, I just got to read the direct quote from Patrick Beverly. It's fantastic. They asked him if Chicago's a perfect fit for him. He says, yeah, if I'm a spoon, Billy Donovan is using me as a spoon. The Lakers, you know, I was a spoon and they used me as a fork. Well, all right. All right.

Pelicans sick at 8 with a 500 record after beating the Clippers on Saturday. Are the pelicans cooked? There is still no time table for Zion and their fall from grace is something serious. Remember, they were a top team and a top seat in the West earlier this season. I'm going to go first. I don't believe their reps. They're cooked, Raja. It's done. It's over. Pack it up. See what happens next year. It's just not a good situation in New Orleans. Like, you get the whispers that like, you know, of Zion and how he's not doing the things that he's supposed that you would want as a young superstar just in terms of, you know, you get the whispers of work ethic. You get the whispers of just maybe he doesn't have everything altogether that you would want.

from a superstar. Now, like, is it bad? No, not, it's not, is it, is it worse as it could be? I don't think so. But the fact that you're getting that so early and those types of things so early in a career, that that's not, that's not good. He has a long way to go up sure. He still has a chance to be a Hall of Fame or all these things. But when you hear those type of things about a player and those types of questions about a player, it's tough, man. It's tough. So I don't believe there are wraps this season and the jury is still out to go to keep going. Yeah, I don't I don't believe they're raps this season. I don't believe they're wraps this season. I don't I don't I from where I started with them at the beginning of the season in terms of expectation and possibilities to where I am now.

I would I would have to say that I'm that I don't believe their wraps. Let me I just as I ramble here I'm trying to think of what I want to say about the Zion situation. I think you you are correct but you did a good job of being politically correct. There are too many reports of him being a bad professional. There are too many reports of it at this point in a very, very young career for me to sit here and say, oh, it's not that bad. That's really bad. It's really bad. You can't stay healthy.

You can't get on the court. You know, I'm sorry. He is a talent. He is this incredible force when he's on the floor, but he's never on the floor. And by accounts, by a lot of accounts, he doesn't do what he needs to do as a professional to be available and be on the floor. And we used a number one pick.

And we've invested the way we've invested. It is very bad. Now, can you change that? Yeah, absolutely. But I mean, you got to want to change. It can't be a one-way street. We can't just say, hey, you need to change. Hey, you need to change.

Hey, you need to change. Like, you got to want to change at some point. And it is bad. And he needs to tighten his, he needs to tighten that shit up. He does because they're, you know, he needs to tighten it up as,

as not, he owes it to himself to tighten up. Like, fuck the pelicans. And I don't, I mean, I, you know,

I love the pelicans. I love Griffin, everybody there. But what I'm saying to Zion is like, if you ain't doing it for the pelicans, do it for yourself, my boy. Like,

get your shit to, And it's interesting because, like, this, this marriage, this is a long-term marriage. They just signed an extension, right? They just signed a, like, y'all are together. And the fact is, like, you know, I think one of the things you've got to realize is, you know, when you're a player, bro, they're investing. Not only is the team invested in a monetary value with you, they're investing, there's so much invested in Zion as a player, bro. like the resources that they have put in place, the Pelicans, and I'm sure you know this as well,

has been, they've, just in terms of just like Zion's day to day that they wouldn't do for a normal player, right? Just like, you know, making sure that there's just so much invested in him. I don't want to get into too many specifics, I just want to make sure that I'm saying. I'm just treading a line here, but there's so much invested in him.

The city is invested in you, right? There were questions if New Orleans was even going to have a team. a couple years ago, right? There is so much, it is so important for you just to seek to know that importance that you have not only on yourself as a basketball player,

but everyone around you, man, because it's, it's just, there's so much talent there with Zion and there's been so many, so much talent. It's really, especially with this contract, you've got to get on your shit. You got to get on your shit.

Another example for me, And hopefully he grows out of this. Hopefully he does. But, you know, if I'm going to pride myself on keeping it a buck and we call ourselves the real ones and I call a spade a spade, just another example of what can go wrong in this AAU coddling culture when nobody is there to tell you, hey, bro, this ain't it. Hey, my man, you got to tighten this up. Like, yo, the way you're moving and the way you're working isn't reflective of what's been

invested in you. It's not what people before you have done to. to be successful and stretch a career out and have, you know, sustained success. Like here's a blueprint, man. Get with this. Don't veer off of this. And too many,

too many of them come up in this world where they are this golden ticket and no one wants to offend it or rock the boat for fear of being dropped by said ticket. And now you wind up with somebody who, you know, it's just, hey, man, look, I hope he gets it right for him, not the Pelicans. He's too good of a player, but you've got to be out there on the court. You've got to take care of yourself and do the things that you need to do and be serious as a pro, man. For sure.

Two more questions from, do we believe, their wraps. Minnesota beat Golden State last night. Carl Anthony Towns is back. He had a game-winning free throws and at Dagger's three. It was some g-shit. That three was incredible last night. And there's some ways hitting their stride as a team. This is a question from Kai.

who I've gotten information that he has done all the questions here. So apologies to Kai. Kai has been holding it down for us. There's some ways hitting the stride as a team. How far can they go now that CAD is healthy? And also keep in mind that Anthony Edwards is out too. I don't. I don't think that the temperwolds are hitting their stride.

It is what it is. They're having a nice stretch. They're not going to do much in this postseason. Honestly, man, I think, and I'm going to keep it a buck because that's what we say, we're going to keep it a buck. I just want the Timberwolves to just stop playing games and just build around Anthony Edwards. It's very clear he's the guy, whatever you got to do.

Just build a team around him and then go from there. It's so clear. I feel like the Timberwolves are just in between two eras at this point and they want to appease everybody. No. Anthony Edwards is a guy. Build around Anthony Edwards. That's what I have to say about the Timberwolves.

All right, then I'll just say this because I'm not even going to dig into into the Timberwolves as a franchise. fun to watch but do I believe they're wraps in terms of really being a threat in the playoffs? No, they're too bad defensively. Sorry. And there you go. That's what we got in Minnesota. I'm actually seeing them play tonight, which is fun.

No, don't get me wrong. Fun to why a lot of talent. Fun to watch them too, like when they're healthy and the stuff they can do. But you can't be bottom third in the league defensively and be for real. You know, I heard from the very smart basketball playing mind. that the only way you win a championship is if you're in the top 10 offensive and defensive efficiency. That's just, you know, that's how you do it.

I mean, it's not rocket science. It's being good, right? You're good on both ends. So there you go. You have a chance to win a championship. Aha. Anywhoop. Last question on the, on the, of do we believe there whaps?

The other side of the matchup from last night is the Golden State Warriors who lost to the Timberwolves at home. It was a nasty, it was a nasty finish, Roger. I'm not sure if you saw it. I did not. Two straight possessions. Draymond throws it to the other team. Next possession, Jordan Poole throws it to the other team, and it was over.

It was a very winnable game for Golden State. They were at home, but they just fumbled the bag. So here's the question from Kai. Do the Warriors still have enough juice in them to make a postseason run, or is it the end of the road for their dynasty? They've been incredible at home, 30 and 8. They've been absolutely horrid on the road at 9 and 29. That is insane.

Okay, so I would like to hear your opinion. first on this and I got some thoughts. What do you think, Roger? Yeah, I don't think they make a run this year. I think we've got a, I mean, we got a whole season worth of a sample size now. And while I've been for most of that season in the camp of, oh, they can get it together, they can make a run. And I'll still hold out a sliver because they are the defending champs and, you know, the seasoning that is on that roster. I don't really believe

it. I guess what I'm saying is, I, it wouldn't be like the most surprising thing in the world ever if they were to be a decent playoff team this year, I don't think they're winning a championship. But I think you know what they are at this point. I don't see them just miraculously turning it on. And I think the uncertainty around, you know, Andrew Wiggins and his availability to that team is massive,

especially and even more importantly, in the playoffs. I'm going to echo what you say, Raja. I believe that to be true. I don't think that they make a run this season. I don't necessarily think it's the end of the dynasty. You know, because I think that this was just a bad season, and I think that they do, they can retool. They have a lot of question marks going into the off season.

All they got to do, just go pay Bob Myers, and then just go back to the drawing board and have another summer to figure it out. I do think that they have a competent front office, a more than competent front office, is going to go down as one of the best of all time, I think. And they have the pieces to be able to make a run in the future. I just feel like it's just a team after a certain point continues to tell you who they are after months and months of doing the same shit.

Right. Like every time I've seen the Warriors, you know, I see them at home most of the time. So when I see them like, oh shit, are they back? They're back. Oh, man, they just beat this team. But they're at home. And then I go see them on the road. And they do they just, they just lose to somebody just clearly beneath them.

Right. And then they'll do something like they did the other week and beat Dallas. on the road and have just one of the best road games of the season, you're like, oh, shit, maybe they are prime to make a run. You never know. But I'm of the mind now, especially with the Wiggin situation, especially with just what's gone on over the last few. I just don't trust him.

I don't trust him. Now, I say all that to say, if they get a three-six matchup with the king's first round, who am I picking? I'm picking the Warriors, right? So, like, it's a two-fold thing. then you start talking to yourself in, do they have the right side of the bracket? Can they go make a run on this end? They go pick a team after the Eastern Conference beats themselves up.

Can they beat an Eastern Conference team in a seven game series? I don't know. But overall, I don't trust this team. We'll see what happens next year. I think for whatever happens, they're going to have a good showing in the postseason. They're going to be on some G shit. They're going to lose admirably. And we'll see what happens in the off season.

That's my take on the Golden State Warriors. All right. Raj, it's time for Snow Talk. And I think it's time to pour out a little liquor, man, for our guy. So we got to bring Kiggity Kerm out of the motherfucking cut. What's more? It's going to be a little sad conversation of Snow Talk. Kerm, bud.

How are you feeling? Let's set this up. I'm feeling fucking terrible, dog. I think that's why Roger was feeling shitty to start the show, man. Like, it's a tough, it's a tough segment coming up. Hadn't I just said that was my favorite character? Did I say that on an episode? Yeah.

He did. Emotional episode from really start to finish, even before we get Jerome passed, and we just got so many intense scenes. But I guess to kick things off, let's treat this whole segment as a memorial today. So first question over the six seasons of snowfall, what were some of your favorite, you know, Jerome moments that come to mind?

Oof. That's a tough question. That's a big question. I saw this in the in the, in the, I saw this in the, uh, in the outline before we went on. So I went to go watch a compilation of just great funny Jerome moments. And when he talks about, got to learn how to squab. When he goes to the, when he gets into, you got to learn a squad. I think that's my favorite one when he's in the car and he just beat somebody's,

and he just beat somebody's ass who disrespected him, who had a gun. He was like, got to learn of a squad. Quah, little homie. That's my favorite Jerome moment. There's plenty of Jerome moments that are great, but I just think that that's at the top tier of Jerome. I'm going to miss my guy. I'm going to miss Hawk, man.

I'm going to miss Hong, man. Look, my favorite Jerome moment. I don't know. There are too many of them, Kurt. So sorry if I don't answer the question all the way. But it was in the episode, the last episode, when he finally told Louis, like, I'm out. Like, I'm done with this.

been here for you. Like, this is not what I have, I've been wanting. It's been on my heart and I'm leaving. And I knew right then. I knew it. I knew it wasn't making it. As soon as he said it, I knew it. And, you know, amen.

But anyway, yeah, that one, that would hurt because Rome was my dude, man. And I, you knew it was bad, though, bro, because you know if you really going to Jamaica, you ain't telling nobody, you're just getting on the plane and leaving everybody, bro. You're not going bad. You knew it was bad. What soon as he stepped foot in that house? more drop bro no no what did no no no no no no yeah that's a perfect transition i kind of want to talk about that scene a little bit more or multiple scenes between jerome and louis in the

episode you know so we saw like a drunken jerome ready to leave louis in the game for the trip to jamaica louis apologizes for putting him in this position and begs him for more time uh because you know jerome is essentially her protector in the game and keeps her valid And she's talking about, she's in pursuit of chasing, you know, her self-fucking worth by continuing to self-crack to the group community. So let's, uh, let's keep it a bean here. Does Louis' pursuit of self-worth in the game make any sense to y'all? Because I was, I was a little confused.

Sis, you got to find self-worth and something else, bro. Like, you got to find self-worth in your equestrian work, you know? You're out here outside. You know, you got to, if you're going to beat a black princess, Diana, you got to just be that. That you could find self-worth in that, right? You could find self-worth. How about this?

Just being alive. Just being alive, right? Also, if your protector's leaving, I don't know about you guys. I'm leaving with my protector. All right? I'm going over with them. I'm going to go where whoever is my, I'm going with them. I'm so, and also in that compilation that I watched,

I saw a lot of fuck shit from Louis of just continually getting the family into some bullshit. perpetually getting them into some bullshit, Roger? No, listen, don't get me starting, man, because I don't want to come off. I don't like Louis at all. I don't. I feel a lot.

I feel kind of like you, I feel like a lot of that. Now, clearly Franklin has drug everyone into this life, but I feel like things and the, like, we could have kept existing in this world where we were all doing it together, even though you're not the boss. like fundamentally

I'm not greedy like that like I'm not like I got to be the shine or I got to be the boss like I'm not wired like that so people that owns the um that owns the fucking chop shop and you just got your money and you're just chilling that seems like the kind of guy you are right I just want to chill so it's really difficult for me to see

people that ain't happy ever no matter what and if they if they can't run it and they can't have it like be the boss of it in the face of it, that they rather burn it down than keep living in this great world. And so that bothers me. And then on top of it, like, that was so hard for me, dog, when this man just told you he don't want to be in this.

And, you know, and if you ever loved him and all of that, and you're talking about give me more time, you literally do not love me. Like, that's what you've just said to me. You do not love me. That's what I'm saying, Louis. You over here trying to keep this. CIA happy and then you also bring it a cop up in our operation and stuff bro like what are we doing

a crack smoking cop like I'm your bodyguard that's what I am like basically right because you can't have no love for me if I just told you that and that's where that's what you want I'm sorry right what's the next question yeah after these intense scenes not only just Jerome not gets to go to Jamaica but Louie gets kidnapped by Kane's crew shit gets real ugly with the torture and the abuse we don't got to dive into that. No, no, no, no. We definitely don't need to get into that. Definitely not, uh, Ringer NBA show proof.

So I guess walk me through your emotions when we see Franklin get the band back together essentially and, and try and, you know, make peace with Jerome, gives Jerome info on where his queen is. And, you know, we get the whole crew including Scully, uh, Leon, everybody getting ready to go and tackle Cain's army. How are y'all feeling when we got that, you know, that, you know, that. come together moment. I was feeling mad as hell because I knew Rome was about to get God.

Like I knew that was the end for Jerome. I knew it. Now, there was a part of me. There was a part of me that was, you know, like when push comes to shove, that's family.

And I was proud of that for them, right? Like, we're not going to let it go down like this. Even after we've tried to kill each other for, for three months, like ain't nobody else going to kill her. You know what I mean?

Like, we're going to go in there and get her back. But I knew, I knew, I knew it was. going to be the end of Jerome and that made me really sad. And then I just want to say this and put that out there.

The previews for the next episode and the stance that Louis is taking, bro. I know this isn't all about Louis, but that shit is all on Franklin now. Jerome's death is on Franklin. I'm all the way out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dog, listen, bro.

I might not even be able to see the actress in person, Logan. That's where I'm at. I might not even be able to see the actress in person. Hey, Roger, why are you yelling at somebody ready? Why are you doing it? Roger, get back over here. I'm sorry, bro.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay, so I'm not going to hold you, bro. I kind of shed a thug tear when I saw everybody gang getting back together, right? Because it looked like a storybook ending. It looked like they were going to be back on top. I felt, I felt good.

I felt really good. I felt, I felt, I felt good. It felt like the Warriors at a home game. I was like, okay, the bands back together. They're going to go with a title, right? That's what I thought. And then, like, it increasingly gets to the point when they go back to Kane's spot, bro, that it's just not going to end well for anyone.

You can't go into a, they went into an ambush, bro. There's no way that it was going to go good. I'm just sad right now. I'm just really fucking sad. And here's a thing, man. I would have rather Jerome stay alive. Even if we went and they killed Louis, Jerome still alive. Okay.

everyone, we're fine, we're good. Then Franklin be like, I told you about them, I told you, I told you was all bad. Then Jerome was like, you're all right, nephew, and then let's go kill everybody. We own it, right? Now I'm conflicted. Are they, are they going to kill Louis?

I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what's going to happen. I have no idea. What's next, what's next term? Does Franklin have any share of blame in this for Jerome's death? Because y'all clearly are in agreement. Louis, Louis is at fault to a certain extent that Jerome died. I know she was tortured this episode.

So pour one out for Louis because that was sad. Poor one out for Louis for show. In the blame game, do you give Franklin any blame or is it just Louis? I give Franklin some blame. Franklin is the genesis of all of this, right? Like Franklin is what is, and his greed is what got us to this point and got us started at this point. But I would just say this. We were at an okay place, right?

when you decided you needed the plug for yourself, Louis. Like, that, that for me was that that was the point where, where lives were now put in jeopardy from each other and all that shit kind of started. Like you, that, and so I don't hold Franklin responsible for that. Louis, what did you think was going to happen? When you went behind the man's back, what did you think was going to happen when you stole Teddy? See, I'm not going to go about Louis, bro. like she don't think things through man like you could have had your whole like cool ass equestrian

lifestyle bro and now you got people out here now you got people coming to like the burbs out here trying to pop you bro like that just louis just brings trouble no matter what man no one no one asked her to do all of this shit and the fact is bro you brought you were so bad at what you were doing, you brought everybody together to come save you, and you still came out fucked up in the game. Right? Every problem, you can look it up. Every problem that has come up in the operation of Franklin Saint and the operation of the drug

game. Every problem traces somehow back to Louis, bro, the expansion, right? Like, don't, this ain't on your operation. You ain't even really part of this family. If you want to keep with a bean, you're not even really here, right? Right? Your last name ain't saint.

It is, but not because it's not, it ain't blood. So you need to go over here. You should have been taking several seats. And now we out here. And now I think it's also crazy because they have done a, so far has done a good job of this, right?

Because there are no redeeming characters. And like, they couldn't have Jerome live because you can't have all your cake and eat it too. And now, Louis is in this space of like, it's so conflicted. You will lie, but you still, like, I'm sure Franklin and then want to pop you steal, you know, because you just got my uncle killed. Like, there's so many, they do a great job of bringing conflicted emotions. So good job on Snowfall.

But Louis got the game fucked up. And I think, if she walks, I don't think she, listen, I'm going to just say this. If something happens to Franklin and Louis, is left standing at the end of this snowfall. I don't know what I'll do. I don't know what I'll do. I don't know what I'll do. That's probably going to be said.

That's probably going to be content saved for the group chat and the group chat only because we, they, it is. I'm just pissed right now. Great show. All right. That was our latest edition of Snow Talk. Well done, Kerm. I have no idea what's going to happen, man. But it's just like the NBA season.

We're just going to have to wait and find out, Raja. That has been another edition. of our Monday Real ones I'm so happy to have you back Bud It's great It's been good

Man We're here for the home stretch Y'all know what it is We will see you guys Thursday Talk soon All of the shits Hala tap in Ahah

See y'all so Peace Put it in the chat