The Ringer NBA Show - Breaking Down the Gang of .500 | The Answer

Episode Date: December 10, 2021

Chris and Seerat examine the season’s most average teams and discuss which has the best chance of bucking the status quo and breaking out of the .500 gang.  Hosts: Chris Ryan and Seerat Sohi  Producer: Devon Manze Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everybody, this is Warren Sharp, NFL analyst over at Sharp Football Analysis. I want to welcome you to The Ringer Gambling Show. Join me on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays each week during the NFL season with guests Chris Vernon, Ben Solac, and Joe House to guide you through the NFL betting landscape. We'll be talking spreads, game totals, parlays, player props, futures, and much, much more. Be sure to follow the Ringer Gambling Show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to the Ringer Gambling. NBA show. It's the answer. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm joined as always by Siritt Sohey. What's up,

Siritt? How's it going, Chris? We are the patron saint podcast of the mediocre because we are here today to talk about the gang of 500, which is my affectionate term for all of these teams in the NBA right now that seem bunched together within two games of 500. And there's tons of reasons for why that's happening to each specific team. You know, we've obviously been seeing like a ton of COVID outbreaks in the league this week that have derailed practices and games and people are out and then you've got some teams that are

underachieving and some teams that are overachieving and they have the same record and that's why we want to talk about these teams today Sirert's going to talk a little bit about the West, I'm going to talk a little bit about the East, but all these teams that are kind of mired around 11 and 13 or 12 and 12 or 14 and 13 and it seems like one step forward, two steps back, but then when you break it

down a little bit more you can see some some streaks, some trends, some interesting tidbits of information. We wanted to kind of unpack this group and see who we think is kind of, this is who they are, this isn't who they are, or this is who they should be happy to be. Sir, what's going on with you today? Are you excited to talk about average teams? I'm hype for this. I can tell you're on one today. And you also, you volunteered to take the side that has two more teams and looked like it would have two more teams on it. So I'm going to let you start.

Okay. So we can potentially sandwich things. But, you know, we'll see how it goes. Well, look, I mean, there's currently one, two, three, four, five, six teams in the East that I'm sort of counting here. And the funny thing about this gang of 500, it's the Cavs, the Sixers, the Hawks, the Hornets, the Celtics and the Nix. A couple of teams there. Sixers, Celtics, Hawks, I think had pretty, and Nix had pretty high aspirations for this season going into it. I guess the Sixers, that's a relative term. But, you know, I think after the Hawks got to the Eastern Conference finals and the Knicks at least made the playoffs and the Celtics are always going to have Celtics exceptionalism, there was some high expectations here.

And then when you get into sort of what's happening with each one of these teams, you know, the Hawks, I think had some stuttering coming out of the gate this season. And then I've now kind of found their form a little bit and gone seven and three in their last 10. So I feel like, I don't know if you've gotten to see any Hawks this week, but like it feels like Trey is kind of, Trey is finding that gear that he had towards the end of last season and into the playoffs where he's conducting the orchestra and he's seeing the chessboard.

Have you gotten to watch any Hawks recently? I haven't seen them a lot recently. I wrote a feature about them a little bit ago probably about a month ago when they were really struggling. And it looks like they're playing a lot better since then. At the time,

it really just looked like there were probably too many cooks in the kitchen. You know, the shot distribution, the minutes rotation and everything was just, it was, they were trying to do a strength in numbers thing. But I think like when you have a guy like Trey, it's almost, it's inevitable that he's going to take up a lot of usage. And yeah, honestly, like, I got to be real. I haven't watched him a lot lately. So if you want to fill us in on if anything's changed.

It's interesting to watch, like, teams led by scoring guards and those scoring guards, sort of juggling the responsibility. of getting everybody involved versus not necessarily getting theirs because they think that there's probably a way to look at Trey or look at some of these younger guards out there and be like, oh, is this guy understand like the true responsibility of being a point guard? But, you know, you can you can see Trey understand the gravity he commands, which I know is something that you've talked about and written about. And while he leads the team in scoring for most of the last 10 games, you know, 30, 31, 33, 33, I feel like he's also getting other guys, involved. Now, some of the stuff that we're going to be talking about is, I've been noticing this

more this season is it feels like teams are getting essentially gimmee winning streaks if they can take advantage of them. You're seeing a lot of teams that get to do the Oklahoma, Minnesota, San Antonio run of you can rack up some wins here if you're, if you can take advantage of these teams that are rebuilding or these teams that are maybe a little bit under, undermanned. And Atlanta's doing that. And so, while they're still, they're still really, you know, they're having a pretty mediocre season at 13 and 12. They're third in their division.

I still feel like they're kind of climbing out of it a little bit. And they beat Minnesota. They beat the Pacers. They beat the Grizz and the Spurs. They've lost a couple in there. But, you know, they're about to start playing. They got Brooklyn. And then they have a red hot Houston team.

So it may wind up that it takes a while for everything to even out here. But with Atlanta, I think this is closer to where they want. want to be. It's not, I just think that they had some disappointment in the beginning part of the season. They also had one of the league's hardest schedules to start the season and they were on the road a ton as well. So I think it was going to be like pretty tough sledding going in anyways. And like just with their defensive effort, it was, you know, it just made things a little bit worse. They're just, you know, I think they're just kind of young and they'll figure it out. Like one thing I really noticed with, you know, making just evaluation.

on these teams is like, like, 500 is really all about what's going on with your team. Like, there are so many different ways to, to kind of look at, like, you know, how things are going to break in the future. And there's, like, a depressing way to be 500, which, you know, there's a couple of those in the West that we'll talk about. And then there's, there's some ways that is, that are actually pretty exciting. Like, you know, Trey having to, to man all that responsibility is like, you know, it's, that's always going to be tough for him. And, like, you know, just the fact that they are doing this at this age is still always going to be a plus. Like we kind of know what they can do in the playoffs.

Like they're almost like they're a team that needs to, I don't want to say they need to get through the regular season. Um, just to like, you know, get to, um, just to make it to the playoffs because they're too young to be like a flip the switch type of team. Uh, but the fact that they've been there before is always just going to give them a little bit of an extra edge. Yeah. And it's going to make me give them the benefit of. out at the end of the day. Well, the other thing there, too, is, like what you're talking about

is it almost seems like they've got the the playoff wildcard with Trey because he is exactly what you want in a playoff game of somebody who can get his own shot and create for other people. They're currently eighth in the Eastern Conference. Let's talk about the team that's right ahead of them. And I think we were going to probably spend

a little bit more time on this squad next week, so I won't believe it for the point, but it's the Philadelphia 76ers, who, against my better judgment, I've watched twice this week, in their entirety, a game against the Hornets, and a game last night on Thursday night against the Jazz. To say this is tough sledding is, like,

to say getting thrown down a mountain in a trash bag is tough sledding. I haven't having a little bit of a personal crisis right now, where fandom and the absence of entertainment are colliding like two Rams in a meadow, you know? And I really don't know what to do. I almost need a little bit of therapy, right here. It's like, when is it okay to say this just isn't, this isn't fun? Even when they win,

even when they come back to beat the Hornets without Lamello, it's just really not fun. They have a really stagnant, slow offense with the exception of Maxie. It falls apart when Embed's not on the court. When Embed is on the court, I feel like he is constantly like, the big guy is holding his hip, but he's going to gut it out here when they're down 16 December. Oh my God. That makes a me so nervous still every time and I just don't understand what like what's the logic here is this like an imbid thing is it just a team wanting to continue to you know I know that they fell apart without him is it that I don't know I don't know why does a Ben's situation play into it like they feel like they got a win like well I mean I think they want to stay attached to the earth you know

like I think that if they're going to go and try and trade for somebody who they think they can get for Simmons if they're waiting for one of these top 30 players to somehow magically become available in a Simmons trade. I think they want to have it so that they don't have to reconstruct their season on the fly. The funny thing is that there's this paradox where Darry, by all accounts, is waiting for the golden ticket

to come along for Simmons. But to stay sort of competitive, they're playing Embed so much coming out of COVID. They're playing as if it's a playoffs, they're in the playoffs now, and Embed might not actually make it through this season at this pace. I don't know. It almost seems like by not making a deal to bring reinforcements.

And I'm starting to feel like Mbid's turning up the pressure a little bit in his press conferences. He made a comment the other day about having $400 million worth of contracts on the bench. And, you know, he just seemed pretty miserable after getting beat at home by the jazz. And, you know, he had a great game, but it was still like a fructive. frustrating experience. He got teed up at the end after like getting filed by Gobert or thinking he got filed by Gobert. He doesn't want to lose to him. No, he does not. He does not. And I just think the things you see when you watch the Sixers is there's the clear number one guy where there's

Embedd. And then there's a bunch of guys who are who should be three to seven options, three to six options. And they've all had to move up a slot. And it's actually pretty weird. You know, It's like you can see why teams have hierarchies and why certain guys are like, my job is to be an able shooter when I get found open by Ben Simmons when he drives into the lane and kicks it out or by Joe L. and Bede when he has a double and he kicks it out. And Seth can only do so much. Seth Curry can only do so much. The big, big, big issue for me is Tobias Harris, who I know I'm not going to be too critical about him because I know he's coming off of COVID and doesn't quite look like himself yet.

but the type of game that he wants to play is deliberate. It's like taking a second with the ball. It's taking two seconds with the ball. It's taking eight seconds with the ball. And sort of picking his angle and picking his spot and deciding where he's going to go. And it's not really working. He's not a number two guy.

Yeah. So I think it's interesting to me that you're actually, that you're this down on them because I think like one way to read the situation is to say, you know, with Ben gone, they're starting to play in a style that's a little bit more Joelle-esque. And when Joelle's been able to play, it's looked really, really good. Now, I understand that, like, you know, stylistically, you've always been on the Simmons side of things, right?

Like, I probably am too. It isn't necessarily fun, especially when you're hoping to, like, become an actual contender to watch, like, a whole bunch of guys that aren't number two's try to take turns and figure out if, you know, if they can be the guy that day. like sometimes that limbo is cool if you're like a young rebuilding team and it's going to be like a surprise with Philly it's like the surprise is just aren't really fun anymore and I get that but at the same

time like I was thinking about them yesterday and it's like you have now like this situation in Portland that's blowing up and you have zero incentive to make any move now for at least until we see what that's going to look like

you know how much more patience dame has like we really just don't know he seems like he continues to be committed but you know and cj is now you know he's he's out with uh you know an issue with his lung that you know you hope gets gets resolved quickly but um so but you know essentially i feel weird saying this after cj you know came out in the athletic and you know talked about how difficult it is to be and trade rumors but as a result of his lung issue um he's not probably going to get traded anytime soon. Which,

I don't know, it seems like we might get a pause in the whole Ben Simmons situation. Yeah, we're down to like now, you know, there was something yesterday where it was just like,

Ben Simmons would love to be coached by Greg Popovich. And I spent about 15, 20 minutes trying to find something that would like make the sort of, the death leave my eyes when I'm looking at the Spurs roster and trying to imagine,

like what combo of three guys and draft picks would be interesting. And I couldn't really find it. What was the best thing you came up with? I mean, Tim Duncan? Can we get him? Like, I don't know. Like, literally Tim Duncan now.

Can he come play for the Sixers? Like, just five minutes a night, you know? Yo, just give Joel some rest. Yeah, exactly. To move on through the Eastern Conference here, because I think you can group, I want to take two teams that I think are actually in this interest. zone of of, of expectations, because you have the calves who are 14 and 12, and you have,

we can do three teams here. It's like the calves are 14 and 12, the hornets are 14 and 13 and 13, and the Celtics and the Knicks are 13 and 13 and 12 and 13. So the cavaliers are like pinch us. Like, we can't believe it. Not only did we get through this, not have lost Sexton for the year, not only does it look like even if Kay Cunningham and Jalen Green are quite good, we have the player of the draft in Mobley, perhaps a generational player. I still, anytime I'm home and free,

we'll watch the Cavs every night that they're on to watch Evan Mobley play defense. And I don't mean that in the like, I'm just a gym rat who loves it. This is actually watching him play defense. It's good television. It's like watching Clay Thompson shoot for me. It's like, it's such an amazing

execution of a specific skill set. And they must be thrilled. They've gotten through really tough stretches of their schedule already. They've made, I think it would feel like they've made every right choice roster building-wise. They're still doing the three big guys thing,

which is odd, but then they come and change, they can really change up the sort of makeup of the personnel on the floor by playing Rubio and playing love. This is like my favorite team to watch right now. I don't know what's wrong with me, though. I love the three bigs. I love it.

I think it's just like, I think we're, like, we're just big fans of teams doing weird shit. And like, this is, this is probably my favorite iteration of it this season. I'm totally with you.

And it is just like, it's exactly like, it is the platonic ideal, actually. Like the Cavs might be the team on this list, like including the West teams that I have. I have the, the Clippers,

Lakers, grizzlies, and Mavericks. all teams with higher expectations than the calves. For the cabs to be like the most like, you know, experimentally interesting team. And like, you know,

mobily, I think is kind of like what we were hoping ball bowl would be. What I was hoping bowl would be. So it's just, I don't know, it's awesome because it's like, I think like when you watch a lot of basketball, um,

for me, honestly, like just you look at the same patterns over and over again. And you can start to get a little bit bored. Um, Mowgli like literally just sticks out within that, right? Like he does things that you just don't really expect to happen and it kind of like shakes you. Like it can kind of like watching the cabs and kind of shake me out of a little bit of a stupor. Like just some of the unexpected blocks.

And just like, you know, when the stride is like, oh wait, no, his foot shouldn't have gone all the way over there. Yeah. It's just like, it's really entertaining. It's like it's fun for the brain. Yeah. It's basically like watching a great guard play offense. is like watching Mobley play defense. Like when you're watching Chris Paul or Steph Curry,

you're like, oh man, he's just in the exact right place to get this pass, isn't he? Or he's going to make this little curl and he's going to be right there. Or he knows exactly like where the big man wants this pass. Like that's how I feel about watching Mobley defend where there's not actually,

he's not like an effort merchant where he's like, I got to get from one side of the floor to the others and just like really grind it out. It's like, no, he takes like two steps and this guy has no angle to the hoop. You know, and it, and he just goes vertical. and the guy can't, there's no daylight. It's just amazing to watch.

So like the Cavs are in Dreamland. I think the Hornets probably pretty happy with what they've got. They're also a really, really exciting team. There was something the other night about like their overs, like their scoreovers in any single game. And they were on like 90s Denver Nugget Pace or something in terms of how many games they've played that are over 250. So they didn't get the memo about it being harder to score this.

year. They're playing without Lamello right now, but are a super enjoyable team to watch, just to get to get to see Bridges kind of take the leap this year. Hayward's been playing well. Book Night is good for a highlight. It's just, it's been really cool

to see them do, to kind of capitalize on them Lamello pick, but then you've got these other teams like the Celtics and the Nix who are probably biting their nails a little bit. The NICs obviously made a couple of splashy moves in the off season.

After getting to the first round of the playoffs, there's been this, I don't even know if you want to call Julius Randall regression, but just kind of of like Julius Randall lost in the wilderness. The Kemba thing hasn't worked out. The bench is better than the starters. Bing Bong is dead. And the Celtics just have turned

into like a defensive grinder team who like are honestly just the most 500 to 500 teams. I feel like every single, every other night they win, they lose. They win. They win. lose. I don't feel like they get any kind of momentum going one way or the other this season. The Celtics might be the single most annoying team in the league to watch this season.

The Celtics are your Sixers? Yeah, I think so. I think so. Except I guess like for me, I don't live and die with the results of their games. So it's a little bit. You picked the wrong company to work for. I actually, I actually texted Bill after the, because I saw that he was at the game. I was like, man, that had to be the single most frustrating game, the Clippers game. And it was like, it was a microcosm for what they are. Like, you know, you're going to have to live and die with Marcus Smart's effort. You know, they didn't have Jalen. And Jason Tatum just leaves a lot to be desired as a playmaker.

Like, he's still very much developing that part of his game. And they just don't, they don't look connected at all. They've missed Hayward pretty much since they've lost him. And they just haven't really made it up yet. Yeah. So when you look at the Eastern Conference, we can stop with my, my ranting here. You see a Nets team that probably isn't playing to their potential at 17 and 8.

You see a Bulls team that is having a rough week with COVID, and they're at 17 and 9. So they still are playing like sort of above their heads, or not even above their heads. Like this is who they are. They're six and four in their last 10. The bucks are incredible when the big three are on the floor and I think are cruising right now, eight and two. They lost this week, but they lost their last game. but they're still 16 and 10

and just feel like, to me, it's like until one of those three guys, if they have those three guys, I'm sort of penciling them into the conference finals. The heat are playing through like a horrendous injury stretch

and still look awesome. The wizards are still loving life at 15 and 11. And then you have this group. Now, out of this group, you go down, this takes up to the 11th seed. I think that,

I think that the hawks are going to be fine and I think that I've seen enough of the calves to believe that this is where they're going to be for the rest of the season. I'm probably most worried about the Sixers and the long-term attrition of this season if they don't get

something in return for Simmons soon, it might be a written off season. Just because you're worried about Joelle? I just don't think they have the, I don't think they have the firepower. I mean, I just think that they're relying too much on role players to be stars in conjunction with Joelle. And I think that they have not come up with like a new tactical wrinkle to accommodate the fact that they don't have their second best player. And they never go small really.

Like they did a little bit against the jazz. It was kind of, it was kind of interesting for a second where George Niyang was like playing center. But for the most part. Yeah, they don't have a lot to go small with. Like the Nying gets center. It's just a lot to put on him. Yeah. So though like it's just, but you know, Joel goes out, drumming.

comes in, it's just lumber, lumber, lumber. They have some interesting little pieces, but none of which should be the primary, like, ball handlers or scorers when Embed's off the floor. So, I don't know, I'm worried about the Sixers. The Celtics and the Knicks,

honestly. I know you're going to get your, like, real therapy session in at some point, but, like, you know, this is like, it's boring, but it's temporary. And for the most part, like, the big picture stuff, it's a good week for the Sixers. Thanks.

Thank you. The big picture stuff, meaning the implosion of the Portland Trailblazers? Yes, exactly. Thank you. Why don't we talk about the Western Conference?

Thank you. Great segue. Yeah. Yeah. You know, let's start with Denver because I think they're in a similar situation to the Sixers.

Obviously, they don't have a disgruntled superstar, but they are missing their superstar. They've been missing Jamal Murray, you know, since he tore his ACL. And the hope going into this season was that Michael Porter Jr. was going to,

you know, be able to eat up the, uh, the points and the minutes that, that Jamal missed. And the playoffs looked like he was going to look like he was going to look like he was going to do that. He looked, he looked, he looked healthy, uh, in the end of the regular season. In the playoffs, it was clear that something was going on. Uh, he came in the first nine games this season. He's averaging less than 10 points. Like, I think he was shooting sub 40%. Like, he just doesn't look like, you know, the marksmen that we're used to with him. He doesn't look comfortable. And then they lose him.

They're still doing okay. Because Yokic is like, you know, it's a lot like last season. They ended up losing MPJ and then they lost Osir too. And, you know,

I think Yokic is just a guy that he, you know, he just kind of redistributes the points that we're going to go to somebody else. Like he's just that good of a passer and a playmaker. And he's not very bald

dominant, despite the fact that, like, you know, he scores a ton of points, but he does everything for this team, right? And at this point, like, they have, even without Porter Jr., the starters, they have a 15.4 net rating. And then once he goes to the bench, it's a disaster. Like, last night against the Spurs, they made a 22 and 9 run in the second quarter when he was on a bench, and that was, like, pretty much the whole game, right? Like, they just never really made it back from that. Right. And it's just like, it's tough, but it's also, like kind of a situation like the Sixers where I feel like

it's this temporary blip and while it completely sucks to like lose a prime year of a player as as transformational as Yokic who like at this point we know that like if he's in the playoffs with the right guys like he's going to make a huge dent

and they're going to have a chance to win a championship. Losing one of those years like that's tough. That's really tough. At the same time I feel like this is one of those 500 teams that their decision making has could possibly be like

really impacted by the new lottery rules because they could kind of do what the Raptors did last year where you kind of continue. Yeah. Shadow Tank. Yeah. Yeah, kind of what you see if you need to, right? Like you can you can keep going with with Yokic.

You know, like he plays a ton of minutes but he's generally been pretty sturdy throughout his career. and see, you know, how the Aaron Gordon two-man game progresses, like, you know, see how much more you can get out of the Will Barton train and just like, you know, try to develop a little bit more. Do you think that some of these teams that wound up making, like either making the first round of the playoffs or barely missing the first round of the playoffs or whatever,

you think that they aren't looking at Cleveland getting Mobley and being like, that could have been us? Yeah, we're Toronto getting Scottie Barnes. Yeah, right. Right. Like, I think, like, the move now is to basically, like, try to make the playoffs. And you don't really have to make a decision on it until, like, March now at this point. Because, you know, there's no point in now dropping all the way down or trying to, like, really tank,

especially if you're a team that cares about its culture. And I think Denver does. And I think for small markets, like, I think tanking in a situation like this, it can be really precarious. you don't really have to make a decision to try to stop winning games until like way later in the season now. And now even if like you only fall to like you know 10th or something

you still have a much higher chance at some of like the really good like lottery picks later down the line. Like it's a reverse effect of the fact that like you know the number one number one to four picks aren't going to be doing as you know aren't going to have a higher chance anymore. That means like at 10th you know you could get the fifth pick.

Yeah. And you know you never And now that they've sort of paid this core, and they know who they are and they know how good they can be when they have all their guys out there, it is more about a matter of patience. You know, it's like, if Ben Simmons had just torn his knee or something like that this season, I think the Sixers would be like,

but we're hugely disappointing, but we know who we are and we know how good we are when we have all of our guys out there and we can build around the margins. Now, that might not have been a title winning team, you know, and I don't know if Denver, you know, I don't, Denver with Murray, I think, can go as far,

as far as they want to go, honestly. Like, I really do believe in Yokic that much. Yeah, that's why I think, like, you kind of wait and see. Like, with MPJ, it sounds like they've always been very conservative with him. Like, the reason they made the pick was, like, they kind of made a bet. Like, you know, we're not going to get him until, like, we'll get him at 14th because of all these issues, but he's a number one talent, right? And now they're kind of, this is a limbo that they have to be in as a result of that bet, right? And then with Murray, you kind of see, like, they're probably going to take a similar approach.

with him, they haven't put a timeline on it. But if you hit March and both those guys are fine, then you kind of start thinking, like, all right. But like, you kind of have to see what everything else looks like, too. Right. But, you know, right now, keep rolling. See what happens. Well, speaking of seeing what happens,

let's talk about these, let's talk about these Lakers. Is that who's next? Yes. Yeah, let's do the Lakers. I'm not, you know what? What's your feeling on the Lakers right now? I'll bounce off of you. I don't know because I feel like I have been conditioned over the years to just be like,

LeBron will take care of this in the end. I've never seen a team that for stretches or for a game can look world beating the way the Lakers can. If Russ is clicking and it's all flying and Davis doesn't have to carry too big of a load or isn't responsible for, you know, the victory or not. And then just see them against a John Morant and Dylan book, Brooksless Grizzlies and just get sunned by Desmond Bain. Like, I don't know who this team is. I don't think they know who it is.

I think that the Vogel stuff coming up this early might be the hyperactive imaginations of NBA media, but is, like, troubling. And I think LeBron's getting up there. And, like, this is always going to be something that we would have to contemplate and confront, and he would have to confront. But I don't think that you can count,

on him to just magically wing you a game when you're like down eight or neck and neck going into the fourth and then LeBron's just going to figure this out. That's not a guarantee every night. Okay. Yeah, that's, I'm still utterly confused. That's why I had you started. I'm glad you said that. I feel like we're kind of on the same page here. I don't know. They're 13 and 13 right now. They have a negative 1.1 net rating. They have finally, finally changed their rotation. They started last night They started Davis, Talen Horton, Tucker, LeBron, Westbrook, and Bradley,

which means Davis was playing at the five. And against the Grizzlies, like this is one team where it's not necessarily a great idea because they are, like, they're the best offensive rebounding team in the NBA. They actually played themselves out of, out of this conversation that we're having because they were going to be a 500 team,

but they ended up, you know, they're now 15 and 11 after beating the lake. but they yeah so you know that that game yesterday um i was trying to track how everything kind of looked together because it was the first time we actually really like saw what this type of rotation would look like um and right now it's kind of it's similar to what it was before the season started which is just like a result of the fact that we haven't really had a lot of lebron right so like they're kind of just starting right now like i feel like we kind of have to look and see from here.

Like they made the rotational change that they have to make. I think they probably will have to make a few more as the season goes on. Like vocals in a tough spot. There's a lot of guys on that team that like, you know, you're not going to be able to play that you're going to have to not play at some point. And you just, you can't do it right now, right? Like that's just kind of the tough thing. Like with the guy like Mello, for example, you also don't really necessarily want to.

So last night, like LeBron and the shooters lineup really worked. Like I think him and Mello still have like pretty good chemistry. history. Westbrook and LeBron and Davis together is still kind of a mixed bag. Westbrook without LeBron is really bad. LeBron minutes generally tend to be pretty good. This is kind of the same team as the one that we saw in like the first five games this season. But honestly, like with LeBron missing 12 games, like the fact that they're 13 and 13, I'm still not too concerned. I just still like don't have any of my questions answered. And the big thing that like has changed, I think is just the fact that like, at least in my mind,

and I, you know, I think we probably should have all been thinking this in the off season too. There's just a hell of a lot to put on Tilton Hucker. Yes. I think, like, he's one of those players that because, you know, he has this incredible wingspan and he's, like, associated with these, like, sexy modern things, like, you know, positional versatility, which is, like, the sexiest thing, I think. Of course.

You know, switchability, right? Like, that gets you going. Um, he's still very much hypothetical as like what the Lakers need. Like I think for this to work, they need him to be like definitely better than a 25% shooter from the three point line. Um, and interior defense for him is just like he's still really figuring it out. Like he's much better as a one on one defender. Like he still gets lost a lot. Whether he's on the perimeter or, um, or in the interior like, you know, help defense is is very much just something that he's still figuring out.

that's fine. Like he's really young. It's just like, man, like, I don't really know that putting him in the starting lineup is like going to be the savior to everything. But at the same time, like, it's only December and just see what happens. And then like, you know, come March, maybe like, maybe it's just a matter of like you stagger, Westbrook's minutes as much as you can without like bringing him off the bench and not having him play with a brawn. You do have to figure out crunch time though. Still have a lot of questions basically. But yeah, I mean, like, like I really feel like it kind of comes down to the LeBron thing. Like I'm not, I don't think I would be hedging this much on this team if LeBron wasn't. You would be like, this is an emergency if it weren't for like the LeBron legacy in the history, which is says a lot about how we have all kind of collectively started to think about Anthony Davis. Because I think that the idea here was going to be, well, they have Anthony Davis. And Anthony Davis and five guys off the street, you know, should be enough to get 500 in

the NBA or something and it's obviously not, you know, and I don't know, there's a lot of reasons for that. I mean, his shooting number one, maybe, maybe the way he's changed his body over the years to probably guard against other injuries. But, man, like, the THT thing, too, is THT's going to find himself in a lot of trade rumors in the next couple weeks, especially if this keeps going sideways for them. So I don't know how that's going to affect his, he's a young guy. I don't know how that's going to affect it when it's like, there's, T.HD for Jeremy Grant, you know, like, I don't know how that's going to impact things. Yeah, I think. like with him, it's just really important to remember that, you know, as of like, I think four years ago,

he was playing guard, you know, like he was, he was not at all a perimeter player. Um, with Davis, the shooting is just, I, I don't really get it. Um, it's just, it's just falling off a cliff. Uh, he improved in the bubble season. He was like, you know, he had that incredible shot over Denver. It felt like he turned a corner as a spacer. Um, and it's just, it regressed month by month, basically, last year in this season he's a 19% three-point shooter, which is not great when you have Westbrook on your team because now you have two guys shooting jump shots that really right now just aren't making any of them on a team that is already lacking so much spacing in the first place. So like the timing of this shooting issue is just that's a tough one for the Lakers.

You know, I don't think anybody saw that coming. I don't, that's just, that's just a tough situation. and Davis in general I think the Grizzlies game last night was a good example but I think like in general when you look across the West like he really dominated in the bubble in a way that I'm not really sure

is going to be replicated now right? If that's who he was. And I think it's still fair to assume that like you know when a guy does that in the playoffs I think like you give him the benefit of the doubt and you say that he will be able to you know, be a dominant force once again. But the West now also, like, you know,

Aiton emerged last year and really held his own and, like, you know, honestly, like, AD was hurt, but outplayed 80 in the first round last year. You got Yokic. You had last night where, you know, Jared Jackson, Jr., who's having, like, just an awesome, awesome season, like, or the awesome, like, last,

like, he's really the reason that they've been able to score it all without Jha. he's not scared of AD like he's barreling into him you know and he's like he's got the size and you know he's kind of got the quickness and you've just there are just more guys in the league that I think can hang with him

in like the 2020 playoffs and there would be in the 2020 bubble yeah yeah who else you have in this gang of 500 in the West? We've got well let's let's let's let's we can go to the clippers. We'll quickly do the clippers. Yeah, across the hallway at Staple's. Exactly.

Exactly. A.k.a.c.a.k.a.a.k.a.a.a. Yeah. I think it was Yoban Buha, The Athletic. He posted a, he posted a picture of the Staples sign being taken off the Staples Center. It was very eerie. Hard day for office supply fans. You know, it was really a moving scene.

Great day for Dunder Mifflin, though. The Clippers, they're in a weird spot this season. It's similar to Denver where they're just like, waiting on Kauai. And I think that like when you're contending and like you just you have, you know, with with the nuggets, it's it's yokit, right? And with the clippers, it's PG. Like when you have a guy like that on your team, like you just, you can't punt the season. And I think that like you also, you know, I think you run some risk in terms of like ruining a winning culture as well. You got a coach like Ty Lou who also I think like likes to get creative. But they're, they're really good.

They have now, it's just going to check this. See if it's updated. Yeah. So, still the fourth best defense in the NBA, which to me is like probably the most impressive thing, the thing that would have surprised me the most about them coming into the season. Not that they haven't always been a great defensive team, but just like you would think without Kauai, there would be a little bit of a drop off. And just that like they don't have like the elite of the elite defensive personnel,

but they have a lot of like they have PG. Z's been gray and like, you know, they can. go to Morris at the five. And they have a lot of guys. They just try. You know, like it sounds so cliche, but they kind of just try really hard on defense.

And, you know, and you got like, Paul George just having like a really grimy season. And, you know, just gutting out some wins, like, you know, squeezing out some offense. Like,

they go, they play in transition a lot more this season. He's creating more threes. He's shooting less threes. I have to assume we're not going to see Kauai this season. but it does give me, I have some, I don't have questions necessarily about how Kauai

and PG are going to fit together, but the fact that they're this good kind of lends more fuel to the idea that they don't fit together that well. Charks wrote about this a couple weeks ago. And a lot of it is like they like to play in the same positions, And, you know, I think, like, when Kauai's back,

I think it's a good idea for them to just start tinkering with a couple of different ideas. Because, like, they kind of have a similar issue as the Celtics. They have a lot of talent. But, you know, Jalen and Jason kind of are similar players. Paul's a better playmaker than any of the, like, he's probably the best playmaker among those four. And, like, he's really improved this season,

which I think you can take as one of the silver linings of Kauai not being, not being able to play. But in general, it's like, you have like they do have a problem to solve and I think that they might lend themselves like a couple ways to to solve it because of some of the things that are happening this season whether it's like PG's playmaking just seeing how much more effective he is like within the rim um you know maybe it's just like one of those guys um one of those guys um and they go like a five four like super small lineup with those guys um I think that would be really fun to see down the line um or like you know just like more more high low stuff. I don't know. Like, whatever it's going to be for them, like,

it's, it's tough. Like, we've seen how tough it is to make those fit when you don't have playmaking. But, you know, if you're the clippers,

it's just like, this is kind of a strange lost season, but like, you got to be, you got to be okay without what's going, I guess. I think that this is a really good example

of compare the, the clippers to the Sixers. You lose, lose a key player. Kaui obviously is a little, is probably more important, league-wide, I guess,

or like, the perception of Kaui is league-wide, more, he's obviously a better player than Ben Simmons. I think the Clippers should be really happy with where they are. You know what I mean? I think the Clippers are seeing a lot of great things out of Paul George. You're seeing kind of a renaissance for him.

And I think that partially this comes down to a little bit of aesthetics. It's like I like watching the Clippers play. I like watching Ty Loo draw stuff up and I like watching the ball move with them. And that's like kind of the opposite the experience I have with the Sixers. Now, if I was a lifelong Clippers fan, I might be a little frustrated, I guess. But this is, they're doing the best that they can with what they've got. The Reggie Jackson experience, if you were like emotional. attached to it.

Exactly. It might be a little bit more difficult. Like the air plus of parents. By the way, get Brad and Boston all those minutes. Like all of them. So, what do you think?

So what's the last thing we got here for you? We've got the Mavericks last. We're going to go doom and gloom here. We're going to go a little bit doom and gloom here. I'm getting, I'm getting major Portland Trailblazers vibes from this team. Yeah.

Like this is going to be, they're stuck in neutral as this team? Yeah, like, so I went through their, they've never really drafted well, so I decided to go through like their draft history. They've had outside of Luca, they have really not hit on very many things at all. Since the championship, pretty much like the only picks that they've hit on are Luca, Jay Crowder, in 2014, in 2012, in 2012, and Jalen Brunson in, in the second round, I think that was, that was the year before Luca, I think. But they've just, they've had a lot of misses. And that's just, like, that's, it's really bad for 10 years. Like, that's three guys in 10 years. And I'm not

exaggerating. Like they had they had the rights to to Rudy Fernandez became Demetrius Jackson, which was part of the Rondo trade, which was disastrous. And they tried to get in on like the disgruntled superstar market, but they kind of

picked the worst guy in Christops to do that with. They gave away a few first round picks, which like I mean that trade looking back at it, it's kind of a wash. It's like the first round picks don't really matter because they weren't going to draft well anyways. they yeah they're just they just don't make a lot of good decisions and I feel like maybe we've just been not paying enough attention to that but yeah I mean like they're they're doing this thing

that the Blazers did with with Lillard like all these years where like they take they sign a role player and they put like they first of all they blow free agency so like the Mavs the Mavs had a ton of cap space this year and they didn't get anybody right and if you look at like, I think, I think if you're a Mabbs fan, like, you're probably looking at the bull season being like, oh, cool. Like, yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. That's a great example. Yeah. Yeah. Especially since you're the Mabs. Like, you already have, like, Luca. You already have the guy that you need. So, like, you know, the Bulls probably have a, like, a lower ceiling overall because they don't have a player like Luca, right? Um, and it's just like, why? You know,

like, you get Reggie Bullock, who is a great. player. You know, he's a great role player. And then you try to sell the fan base on this idea that he is more than what he is. Right. And now he's struggling coming out of the gate. Tim Hardaway Jr. is struggling coming out of the gate. They will improve their shooting. Like, you know, this, the place that they're in right now, like, they're a little bit better than that, right? Like, they're just, they're really stagnant and they aren't hitting a lot of their shots. But, you know, more than anything else, I think, like, the big picture is, like, the concern with this franchise. And the other thing, man, like, you know, actually, let's say on that, but I have, I have, I have a Luca thing. But like, just a long-term thing of this, like, trajectory of this franchise, like, outside of Luca, just not a lot of great decisions. I don't, I don't even know what, whether or not the coaching decision is in that category for a variety of reasons. But, like, I don't know whether or not, like, it's almost like, I don't even know why they changed coaches. Do you know what I mean? It's like they've, do you see their play style changed much in, in, in,

from the Carlisle of the kid transition? I think they definitely have less movement. But honestly, like, that is one of the things I had in my notes is, like, this team is just not appreciably that different from last year's team. And why would it be? Like, why are you, like, acting like, Reggie Bullock is going to change the fate of your team in the playoffs? Like, that's not Reggie's fault. That's, like, that's just, like, that's them, right? So, yeah, it's just tough, man.

And like you're watching the game last night. Or what was the game? Which game was it? After the Nets game. After the Nets game. Which, you know, so Luca, Luca after the game was asked about his weight. And like, he looked so sad.

Yeah. He looked so sad, honestly. Like, I think that was my biggest takeaway from that. It was like not really like his weight. Because, like, honestly, he's, you know, like, yes, he could probably, like, have better conditioning most seasons. But, like, you know, like, he said, like, he was, like, he said, like, when he was asked about it, like, he played in the Olympics this year. He got three weeks off. And, like, yeah, he's not, like, necessarily in the best shape.

And he, like, he was a little bit passive aggressive about it. He was like, yeah, I guess I, you know, I got to rest for, like, three weeks. You know, maybe I relaxed too much. To which I say, like, honestly, Luca, like, just don't become a victim of burnout culture. especially you, like you're just so happy when you play. Like the whole,

you know, I feel like everything in Dallas, like relies on that guy having a smile on his face. And he just doesn't right now. So, yeah, things aren't looking great there.

So you, so this is interesting. So if you are looking at tea leaves, if you're looking and you're like the crystal ball, like of your group of 500, who do you feel like shakes off the cobwebs

and gets better? And who do you feel like is who they are. You know, I think it's tough because most of the teams in the West are kind of stuck in neutral, right? Like, the Clippers, I assume it's just because it's Kauai. Like, you kind of have to think he's not going to be back this season. I think they're kind of what they are. I think the Mavericks are going to get a little bit better than what they are,

but they're kind of essentially, you know, it's Luka and a bunch of guys that aren't really number twos. I guess Chris Dops is probably like the biggest X factor within that. Like I think he's had games this season where he's just been a lot more like motivated than he's ever really looked before. So possibly something, you know, can can happen there. That's probably like their biggest point of upside. But the Lakers are really the one where it's like you got to see what happens. But they have the highest ceiling out of all these teams that we've mentioned. But it's because like they shouldn't be in this conversation, right?

Like they should be in the other conversation that we might have like a different day about like the jazz and the sons and the warriors. Like the sheer fact that they're here is kind of the issue for them. But you know, it's it's LeBron. They'll probably end up in that end of the conversation.

I don't know that they're like a Warriors' sons team. But you know, like this, I feel like all the teams that they're not, it's not a lot like, it's not really like the East. Which I guess I'll pitch that question over to you. Because I think there's a lot more room for growth.

slash regression with the teams that you had. So who do I think has the most... Say that question again? Basically, like, who do you think has, like, the best chance of breaking out of this... In the West? In the East. In the East?

I think in the West, it's got to be the Lakers. In the East, I guess... I honestly think it's the Hawks. Honestly. Like, I just feel like they're young, they're athletic. They have guys all over the place. By the way, we didn't do, we were going to, we were going to start making a segment out of best single game plus minus of the week. I think it might be hard to top Gallo on any given night because it's always 20 points with a minus one plus minus.

But yeah, I have a, I feel like the Hawks have the most potential to kind of get out from under the mediocrity. And they're, they're obviously trending in the right direction. Yeah, I'd say that's, that's, that's probably fair. Unless there's a Sixers trade. And, you know, unless they trade Simmons for Luca and then you know, maybe Luca will start smiling. Yeah. Which of, okay, last thing before you go, which of these teams

do you think is asking them some very, asking themselves some like very serious questions about Campbell Walker and John Wall? Oh, about like, as like a trade chip? Oh, man, that's a great question. In the East or just in general? You can go East. I'll start.

I'll say the Clippers. You know, just because of the playmaking issues that we talked about. But then that also then suggests that, like, the Celtics might want to get in on the... Maybe John Wall, maybe welcome, you know, try the Kempa thing again. They love letting go of guys and then bringing them back and them not being as effective. So, you know, that could possibly be a thing. I mean, Kemp is not... The problem with those two guys is that Wall is this huge contract,

and Kemp is relatively affordable, but it looks like his... game is shot. I think if the Cavs were like, let's build on good feeling here and we've lost sexton to the year, like maybe they take a shot at Kemba. But I don't know. If I'm the Cavaliers, I don't mess with my chemistry until it's absolutely necessary. Yeah, you also, I mean, we're here. This is all fun and dandy, but like, you know, if you're the Cavs, like, you don't really need to be out here winning more games than you're supposed to. Yeah, exactly. What's the point? Exactly. Why don't we wrap it up there? Next week, we have one more show before the end of the year.

We have one on the 17th, and then we'll be taking a couple of weeks off because the Fridays happen to fall right on the holidays this year. Sir, thank you so much for joining me today. You're never 500 in my book. Thank you so much. Well, if I was in any gang, a gang of 700, a gang of 600, a gang of 600, even a gang of 300, you know, I'd like to be in that gang with you. Thank you.