The Ringer NBA Show - Breaking Down the Historic Scoring in the NBA, the Future of the Atlanta Hawks, and the Lakers’ Late-Season Playoff Push | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 27, 2023

Logan and Raja are back to discuss the recent stretch of historic scoring performances from both players and teams, what’s behind the surge, and the current culture around scoring (4:00). Next, they talk about Quin Snyder’s five-year contract to become the head coach for the Atlanta Hawks and what that means for the future of the franchise (22:00). Along the way, the guys unpack what the Lakers-Mavericks matchup says about those two teams moving forward into the latter part of the season (32:00). Later, they touch on the Phoenix Suns ahead of Kevin Durant’s much-anticipated debut (40:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Watch out for mouth tendrils and follow along on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What's popping? We are back. Logan Murdoch, Roger Bell, Real ones in the building. What's up, Rob? Ooh, how was Salt Lake, my boy?

Why you ask you that question? I'm just saying how it was All-Star weekend, dude? Like, I missed it. It was actually my first, it was my first All-Star weekend. And, you know, I was, you know, I was in and out. I was moving and shaking. It was cool. It was cold, it was cold, but not by, like, Salt Lake standards.

It was like a nice little 30 degrees. It could have been colder. You know, it was. Walters? No, so here's the thing. I took a picture in front. Shout out to Walter. I think Walters was doing private events because they didn't, they were not open for us.

And I called them because I was trying to get a reservation. I called them back in December when we found out we was coming to Salt Lake. And they said, we're not going to be open during that time. So shout out, Walters. If I'm ever in Salt Lake City, I'm tapping in. But I did, I did like the walk tour of, um, of, of, um, of, Salt Lake, there's not, it's not like an official tour or anything, but it was just like, I'm going to walk around and see what's up.

And I walked the ball just, I took some flicks. I should have put it in the chat, but it was wellness week last week. And I'm over. And I was just, I wouldn't, I wouldn't think about, you mind if I was not thinking. But, but it was, it was, it was interesting, Rossin. Salt Lake was interesting. Salt Lake is, so like, is, so Lake was interesting. This is my favorite time of year, Logan.

20 last, we're in a stretch, dog. Like, this is what, you know, this is when, you know, this is when, the old NBA playing mindset starts to like kick in like you your old clock starts to tell you it's that time right like it's you could start

feeling the presence of of the playoff run and push and then the playoffs themselves and that chase for the ultimate uh for the ultimate goal so it's a cool time of year I've been listen man so like I go on stages I don't know if I've said this in the pod before But my MBA journey every year is by and large the same, right? You get excitement like late September going in, okay, we're getting back to it.

We're coming back to school. We're out of summer vacation, right? Then like that builds to a crescendo for opening night and the opening week, right? And then you kind of hit a lull around Thanksgiving because you're going into football season. And then the dog days of Christmas, right? after the Christmas is another peak. Then you go into the dog days going into early January. And then like into January, you're just checked out of like NBA stuff because NFL is going

on and stuff. And then you get to All Star. And then it starts to rep up. You start. And then this is my first All Star weekend. So I really got to see how it is like the rev up during the weekend. And then you start revving up because you start seeing people. They start getting giddy.

Like you start asking, who you think going to go? What's their sleeper? Who do you think going to go? So who you like right here. Oh, and then you get a good look at like the standings and things like that. You say, like, what team can go here? What team can do this? And then the first week of the new year, like the next six weeks of the year,

you start getting those Sunday games like we got last yesterday in Dallas, Lakers' Maps. You start getting those games where it's like midday. This is the NBA. It's the NBA's time right now. They're not competing with anything else. they're getting ready to we're getting ready to lock the fuck in and i'm starting to get in there i can't wait to like late or early march or late march where you know guys are starting to like getting in the pole position into into the spring because in the spring you all know we're locked in and we're

starting to get that itch right now we're starting to get there yeah and hopefully cats are starting to get teams you know they've made their they've made their trades obviously hopefully Cats are are starting to reach peak and optimal health so that that run and those playoffs can be everything that that you anticipate them being, right? Because that's, that's it. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's been, it's been interesting. You know, one of the revelations that I got over the weekend, and I do want to talk, you know, I'm doing the stream of consciousness. We had a pre-pod plan, but we're going to deviate a little bit from that. But first we're going to start with like just the scoring that I've been seeing over the last week, right?

talk about Dame Lillard. Early rural one of the weak candidates, shout out to the town, 71 points. We need you to get to another team, pal. But he's scoring big. Clay Thompson gets another 12 burger for three. You have one of the highest scoring games in NBA history with Kings Clippers over the weekend. Kings, man.

We're going to start talking about the Kings a lot during the backstress of this season, great thing to say in a positive way during this stretch of the season. But you have that, you have, you know, coming on the heels of LeBron getting the all-time scoring title. And it's just, it's really interesting where we've come as a game in terms of scoring. I don't know if it's the lack of defense as much as it's just like we have just seen an historic amount of scores during this time. What have you seen during this last week, Ryan? What does that tell us about where we are as elite. I want to be fair because it's kind of nuanced.

Because scoring is and scoring ability and scoring skill sets, offensive weaponry is an all-time high. We've talked about this before on the pod and the skill development and the ability for the majority of NBA rosters now to have a skill set that would allow them to create not only for themselves, but for other people in a way that didn't always exist. So given the opportunity and the void of having a true number one score, you have multiple people that could step in and drop 35, you know, something like that if they got hot, 40, if they get hot. You know what I mean? Now, again, there are other things that go into that

equation and their rule changes and there are things that the NBA has kind of put in place to make this a more palatable, like product for people to want to watch. You know, you want to see the scoring. But, you know, I often have to start at the youth basketball level because I think it, you know, it all trickles up. You know, what you get at your grassroots, you might not see the effect of it right away in the NBA that you're going to see that in high school, but then, you know, four years from then you're going to be seeing it in college. And then, you know, eight years later, you'll see some of it start to hit the NBA. And then, I don't know, you know, 12 years, you got an NBA full of it. The, the defensive mindset,

set is prehistoric in youth basketball. It is, it doesn't exist. I had a conversation yesterday. I am the old curmudgeon that has a team that doesn't look like it. It should beat you. Doesn't have six, sevens walking around in the eighth grade. Are you coaching a mid-major, Roger? I am.

My, my middle, my eighth grade team is a really tough squad. Our biggest kid is six three on their multiple teams. teams around the country now in eighth grade where they have six seven six eights right um and they got kids that'll just get a bucket however you want a bucket uh but we come in and we don't we don't have all of that but we got a solid defensive structure we got some grimy kids that'll sit down and fight you for every inch and so we're able to play in games we don't win them all but we're able to play in games that you might look at us and not think we can play in that generally speaking because i'm not making this about my team but that attitude that type of kid they don't exist

a lot in the youth basketball world. There are reasons. I mean, you know, like, it's hard to keep kids. It's hard to keep parents trusting in you when you've got to be kind of the type of coach that demands that defensive effort. They just pick up their ball and they go to another program. Like, they don't want to be told that, hey, we need you to do X, Y, and Z. They just want to shoot the ball.

And so I had a coach come up to me the other day, and he was talking about the lack of people who want to defend. And he runs a big program down here. And he's saying throughout the landscape of his program from third grade all the way up to his high school teams, he doesn't have people that want to sit out and guard. And you see that when you go and you watch these tournaments. They're glorified like NBA All-Star Games. You saw what that look like.

I walked in the gym the other day. I'm sorry. I didn't know this was going to happen. But here I go. I walk in a fucking gym the other day in Coral Springs, Florida to watch my 11th. year old play. They're fucking DJs playing. It's loud as shit.

No one can hear anything. So there's no one that can coach in that because this is a party apparently. And then I stand there and watch the high school varsity game that's unfolding right in front of me. And no one is playing any defense. It is an all-star game. You dunk it. We'll get it out of the net.

We'll come down and we'll either shoot a three or we'll dunk it. And so what do you think that turns into when it matriculates up? You know what it turns into? you know what it turns into, Roger? It turns into the All-Star game we saw in Salt Lake City. That's literally what happens, right, where people are complaining. Like, it's interesting because on the surface, and this isn't, this isn't, I don't want to, I'm not trying to bash hoop in the NBA because it's throughout sport in general,

because in the NFL, what are they prioritized? Where are they marketing? They're marketing the quarterbacks and they're marketing the offenses as in general, right? Just around the sports landscape, this is the thing. but I think you can see the excitement when you see Clippers Kings, right? How dope that was. It's like how wild that was as a game, right? But then you go on the other side and you see as your All-Star game where you see

dudes just, you know, not caring at all, right? And it used to be, we used to be able to get everything in our All-Star games, which was, man, we get to get the vibes for everything but the fourth quarter, at least that was sold to us. In the fourth quarter, we don't play hard. We don't figure this shit. out, right? We're going to play. We're not getting that anymore, right? And I think that and I think, I think we're about a year or two away from the pendulum, and maybe this is me

being hopeful, Roger, of the pendulum swinging the other way, where it's like, no, this is bullshit. This is not fun to watch. We fucking strap up and play some defense. Well, I don't know what. I think that you'd be in wishful thing because I don't know what the incentive would be for the players to go out there and really, really compete in that. And I didn't, I want to take a step back because I didn't, I didn't mean to say that NBA players treat it just like these AAU scenes because they don't. Because at the end of the day, they're competing for livelihoods. They're competing for for for legacies and championships. So as professionals, they're able to lock in and defend, right?

And do them and do the, I don't, I don't want to say minimum, but do what they need to do to be at least adequate defensively in a way that gives your team a chance to win. And so, but youth, youth basketball isn't. like that. And then generally speaking, the malaise and the attitude towards winning is, I've said this before. I've got kids that will play every single weekend. If I provide them a platform to play on or not, they will go find another team to play for. And what happens in that environment when you're playing six games in two days on a team that doesn't practice and you have no relationship with the coach and he doesn't give a shit about making you better or teaching you things is you don't care about winning. You don't give it damn.

You don't care whether you win or lose. You're just out there to get some hoop. You don't care whether what you're doing is really contributing to winner or losing. It's promoting a me type of thing. And I know this is kind of like running parallel to the NBA conversation because this isn't exactly about the NBA. But it's sad. Like as a pure basketball fan as someone that was raised in a culture where winning was paramount and you learned how to do what a team needed you to do to win.

And, you know, team building, even at the corporate level, is based on us all playing a particular role to get the objective done. Like that is being lost and it's not being nurtured. And there's some real poop butts out here running programs and, you know, running leagues where you're teaching them the wrong way and you're teaching them to put stock in the wrong things as young basketball players. And so, you know, when you get to the NBA and you're not in a great culture as a team or organization, and you're left to your own devices to figure out how to win

and what winning looks like and you've got no real background in it and no one's ever taught it to you what the fuck do you think you're gonna get? When I hear what you're saying and I do want to get back to the NBA part of this but when whenever when I hear about what you're saying

and your Roger rants about AAU I just think like yo whenever you do anything for the bread it fuck shit up. AAU now is for the bread. it is what it is. That's what it is. But when I want to get back to the NBA part, when you see a stat line

like the King's Clippers game, what immediately pops out to your mind? That's ridiculous. Something like that. That's ridiculous. Good and bad. Like, it doesn't all have to be bad. I'm not going to come off. Like, I can't appreciate it. Because it was historic. I was like, wow, that's crazy. I'm watching this right now. Yeah. I mean, it's a ridiculous scoring exhibition in a good way.

Like that's, I mean, you know, you got a lot of dudes that are putting on display their ability to, to, to, you know, do incredible things with this ball. That's a true mastery of the scoring art. I have no beef with that. It's also ridiculous that defensively we're allowing that many points. It's just, there's, it's a generation that doesn't put much stock in that. Are we losing recipes, Roger? Are we losing recipes? You are.

You are. Like, they're not a whole lot of grandmas and grandpas and unmas. Monty's sitting around, you know, kicking game. Like, these are, these are kids that have come up in a generation of, of like, you know, we eat out every night, bro. So, like, I don't know how to cook as far as defensively. Now, offensively, offensively, it's a whole lot of, like, you know, master chefs out there. And so it's a ridiculous scoring exhibition.

I can appreciate that as a basketball fan and their ability to do that. but I just generally like to see a balance is what I like. Like I'm not the football player or a football fan that wants to see 100 points. I also don't want to see a 7 to 6 football game. I like to see something that's got a little bit of both. Sue me. You know, the best game that I'd seen, this is a, I'm getting to the point now. I'm almost 30, right, where, but I am getting to the point now where it's like back in my day,

I'm in a big back in my day bag. It's very, it's nasty. I'm not going to hold you. You're a little early for that, but I can appreciate it. I don't know how I feel about it. But anyway, the best game I've ever seen was game seven of the 2010 NBA finals. It was the best game I've ever seen. And if I'm not mistaken, that was an 8379 game.

And I know that on the surface, that is a nasty, it's a very nasty final score. But what you had was intensity, desire, defense, offensive moments as well, right? You had the whole package. You had everything. And I think one of the things that we get lost in this scoring barrage and all these high-scoring games is. And I'm not saying that like the Clippers Kings game,

what did lack desire because it was a two-overtime game. And both of those teams have things to prove. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the overall, just culture of scoring in general. I think we want to get, we want to get the highlights and we want to get the stuff that lacks substance. I think if we get the scoring and keep getting the scoring, because I agree with you, man. Like, when people get to the league and these young dudes get to the league, they're going to go through a, especially these new cats, they're going to go through a very big learning curve when they go into the league. league in learning how to win and learning how it's hard to get those when you have to learn the

fundamentals when you're 19 and 20 years old as opposed to when you're eight nine years old because it's just a whole different conversation you're telling people and i think there's a lot of ways why like you know certain guys it's hard for them to win early now they do win but they don't win at the highest level like um i think about you know and i know that there was extenuating circumstances but i think about like a guy like lamello ball right who had to learn how to who was learning and has to learn how to adjust to this pro game.

Now there's other shit that happened in Charlotte, but this is a guy that's been in the limelight since he was 13, 14 years old, just jacking threes and being rewarded for it. And then when you have to go to play for a team concept, Alamello ball is special.

He's really, really good. But he has to now learn the other things because he's been enabled to not play defense or just you know, not run back. And you have to learn that and learn that desire. And I think we're going to start seeing more and more guys coming into the league that are like that. And it is in more of an adjustment period going forward.

I think it's going to be more an adjustment period for younger guys. Well, you're 100% right because, like, I'm a Lamello fan. I, you know, I defended, what's dad's name? What's dad's name? LeVar. I used to defend LeVar. Like, I didn't have no beef with that, man. you're you're you're you're marketing in a way that that companies and people have been doing for a long time why we can't do it like you know what I mean why you can't do that for your boys and and and and and uh capitalize on it so you know I don't have to agree with everything you do to say I'm okay with that as a father as someone trying to help you know your kids and your family's legacy having said that um I believe you to be right Logan and I was having this conversation it was an eventful weekend obviously for me right um

on a seven on seven field with a coach the other day. And he was lamenting about his kids playing, you know, anywhere they could play kind of. And we were drawing the parallel to what I was just talking about with my team. And what I boiled it down to is we live in a day in an age where everyone wants to be famous like right now, right? You want to, I'm going to just tell you real quick before, like all my little partners that

listen to this pod right now, bro, being famous is whack. You don't want to do it. Just to be famous, just to be famous isn't like the greatest thing in the world, guys. I just want to just throw free game out to you. There you go. But we live in a day and an age where like the kids, you know, see all of this viral sensation, right? And what it does to your online profile and your clout. Your clout, right?

And now it's been monetized with NIL deals and stuff like that so that when, you know, you go to college, you can reap the benefits of that. So, you know, I understand it to a degree. And you should because you ain't playing for free. You should get your bread. Get your brave with NIO. Right. So, but now you've got parents, right, like that, that see the value in that, wanting to value for their kids, and we'll do, we'll do anything to help them promote themselves in a way that might allow them to, you know, monetize fame or capitalize on it, right?

And what they don't have is the background and the knowledge of the, nuts and the bolts of becoming good enough to sustain once you've got that, right? Because that's show. That highlight is show, right? Like, that is for the cameras. But do you have not just the skill level, bro? Like, trust me, there are a lot of people with skill level that can do cool shit. It'll get them, you know, on some video a thousand times with a million likes and so on and so

forth. But when you walk into someone's building, whether it be high school, college, or professional level. Are you wired the right way? Do you put stock in the right things? Is this just a me, me, me thing because you've been bred to do this your whole life? And so now it's just me centric. And I don't know how to fit into anybody's system. Like, am I, am I accountable? Or can I not be told shit? Because my family's always told me that like, yo, just do whatever you want. But like, you know what I mean? There's a lot that goes into that. Not just the skill, but the wiring of the athlete or the person,

who you are helping them become, can they fit in to these environments where they ultimately aren't maybe the best and they're asked to do something outside of the scope of what they're used to. And now they don't know how to act. Like that's what's being lost. And so, you know, like I get it.

Everyone wants the fame. Everyone wants the viral clip and you're right. We want this video and this, this, I went between the legs, blah, blah, I snatched him and I hit this three. and everyone wants it now, and parents are losing sight, and trainers and coaches are losing sight of building, like, real, sustainable athletes. That's why you're getting a lot of stuff in the NBA of when they hit score and they're down 20, and it'd be like, you're too small.

Word. You know, that's why we're getting that. Let's take a quick break, and we're going to go around the league. Ryan, we are back. Time to go around the league. Did you get your plane ticket? Because I got mine. We're going to take a quick trip to the A.

Hmm. Oh. One of my favorite places ever. Yeah, I like Atlanta. You know, we're going to go down and see what's up with the Hawks who have just hired Quinn Snyder after dismissing Nate McMillan, who I think is on the All-Raja team in terms of people in the league. Yeah. Can I say this? I like the Quinn Snyder hire.

I think he's a great coach. I hated the Nate McMillan fire. Can both of those things be true? Get right in your back. Tell us why. What's up? What do you think about? No, no, no.

I want you to continue. I want you to continue. But like, I just wanted to put that out there. Like, I like, I like Quinn. I think that's a great hire for that team. But I think it's bullshit that you run Nate McMillan out of town. Oh, 100%. And this speaks to just like, I think,

front of the show, Sam Amick, kind of alluded to this, but I'll go all the way. The level of dysfunction that you are hearing outside of Atlanta just seems palpable, right? It just seems that way. Behind the scenes, but also what you have seen in front of the scenes, right? You know, Lloyd Pierce gets fired mid-season, right? Of course, Nate McMillan did a great job, but they didn't seem to be some stability. Like, when he took them, after he took them to the Easter Conference Finals, it still

didn't seem like stability. It seemed like one of those, oh, wow, the Hawks made it to the Eastern Conference Finals. I don't know if this is happening again. This is cool, though, right? It didn't seem, it didn't seem like they had things figured all the way out. Like, if you're going to trade John Collins, trade them or don't trade them. But to have that lingering for as long as it's lingered and then have, you know, the things behind the scenes, you know, Landry Fields has to figure out what he's going to do, but just the constant turnover is what

concerns me in Atlanta. And I hope Quinn Snyder can come and bring stability to that with Landry Fields. He's a great coach. Quintznyder is a great coach. And I'm really happy to see, you know, him get back on his feet. But I'm just curious to see it's really, really early in this process. This can go a number of ways. And it's going to take all three levels being on the same page. Quinn Snyder with Landry Fields with ownership. And we just haven't seen that. We haven't seen that level of stability in Atlanta. And that's what concerns me. And hopefully they can, they can write the ship there. I think you're right to be concerned. I hope that Quinn would have gotten unequivocal yeses to the questions of whether or not you guys have my back in terms of

the vision and whether we're going to be able to hold people accountable. Because the fourth level of cooperation that you would need to have on the same page as the player level. And I'm not in that building. But I've read reports. I've watched. You know, I've seen interactions. And it seems like at times that's where the disconnect is, right?

Like you have players that don't necessarily buy in. You know, I know people who have friends on that Atlanta team. And I hear some of the things coming out of there in terms of who likes to play with who and who's hard to play with. And so I would just say, without pointing any fingers, they all need to get on the same page. And you can have three levels all in sync and lockstep. And if that fourth level isn't or that fourth component isn't on board, right, we got a problem. So then the question becomes, what do we need to do?

Because I look at their right, will the three levels pull the trigger in a way that makes that four. level look more like it needs to look to buy in. Whatever that means to you, whatever that means to you, right? Because I know, you know, we had a moment on the pod with the Trey Young stuff when it broke and stuff like that. I don't know Trey Young. I don't know. My perception from the outside, and this is just my perception, is it looks like he could be a little difficult to play with. And it looks like he can be a little difficult to deal with in terms of coaching and

organizationally. I don't know for a fact. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this is my opinion. It's what it looks like from the outside. He does not have the greatest reputation in the league circles. It is, I mean,

it is what it is. Ask anyone in the league. So we got to get that on board in a way that allows us to be productive. Here's the thing, and I harp on this shit all the time. As I look at their roster. The most tenured, like,

in the league, mind you, not with the Hawks, member of the Atlanta Hawks is Clint Capella. Right? We're eight years in. The next two would be, what, Dejante Murray five years in and Boyan Bogdanovich or Bogdan Bogganovich five years in. That's a relatively young team, a lot of which has been raised in that very culture that you are saying,

you have reservations about. It's not that easy to flip a switch. Now, I believe Quinn Snyder, like I saw what he did with the jazz over an amount of time, given support and what he felt he needed to make his vision come to reality. And so I hope for Atlanta fans and for the Hawks that that's what they do. But that's a relatively young team raised in relative dysfunction. And so what do you get? You get inconsistency.

Like that's what it is. It's going to be inconsistent. Well, I think the guy is going to good around Quinn Snyder is, you know, when he was with Utah, you know, he inherited a relatively young team as well. And they did really well. Right. Yeah, young Donovan Mitchell. This was. And also, like, he coached through Gordon Haywood, Gordon Haywood leaves and Harris's dude,

Donald Mitchell, who's amazing. And the one, they were on pay, they did really well during Quinn Snyder's structure, right? Like, they found a way. Now, they didn't do great in the playoffs, but again, you know, like, in terms of, like, revitalizing an organization, he did that. What is the conversation that I need you to put your, your, your, your Quinn Snyder hat on, your Quinn Snyder right now? what is the first conversation with Trey Young?

What are you saying to him? What are you telling him? How are you approaching that? Because at the end of the day, he's the face of the franchise. He is the guy. He is the one that you need to talk to. What do you say to him? How can I help you get this team where you want it to go?

How do you see me being able to help you get it to where we wanted to go? Now, that wouldn't be my natural instinct. as Raja, right, to come in there hat and hand and kind of approach it like that. But knowing who I'm dealing with and hearing what I've heard, that's probably the way I'm going to approach it, right? Hear what he's got to say about the situation. I probably already have the details of all of these kind of, you know, interaction. So I kind of know what I'm dealing with.

But I'd be very keen and very interested to hear what he had to say about how he sees it and how he sees the offense and what he thinks I can do to help that, right? And, you know, from there, you know, I would get into like, yeah, I mean, you know, you'd have to agree with some of that stuff. And let me tell you some of the thoughts I have, you know, about helping you get there. Like maybe you haven't thought about this. But let me, let me illuminate it. And let me tell you how it works. This is what I did to help Donovan Mitchell get from point A.

Now, knowing Donovan Mitchell was going to do it on his own, like he's a star. But here, let me tell you how I helped him get from point A to point B with a. supporting cast. Like, you know, you're, you're feeding into the ego to some degree, but at the same time getting answers, right, so that you know what you're dealing with. And then, you know, kind of setting the table for what you're, what you're going to want to do. I think, you know, Nate McMillan is a really good basketball coach. But Megan McMillan is all, you know, Raja team, as you said, right? And so that can be a little abrasive. And for most people's accounts, Quinn Snyder is a player's person.

he's got great people skills. And so I think, you know, today's player, and this is today's player because they're all as young as like I just kind of said, he's going to be able to communicate with them and relate to them in a way that maybe was hard for Nate. And I say hard for Nate because I know it would be hard for me. You know, and so I think Quinn might have a lighter hand, if you will, in some scenarios. And that might help them. But, I mean, that's how I'd approach it, Logan. I don't have a great answer. I mean, on the spot, I'm just off the top of the dome.

I'd probably go in there and keep it real light at first because I think that's got a tendency to be a little bit unstable and then gradually kind of, you know, tighten the screws. All right. So now we're going back. We're back at the airport. We're heading LAX. Going to LA.

You got your room set up at the low. at Santa Monica. You got you all your vibes already. You know the vibes. I'm watching, I watched the Lakers Mavericks yesterday, which was a

very interesting game, obviously the comeback, but just all the other things that had nothing to do with the actual game that kind of manifested through the game, right? Where you have Kyrie, you have Luca, you have LeBron, you have AD, you have this, you have this,

you have this come to Jesus moment for Kerm who was going crazy what are your impressions on both sides of that matchup and what does that game tell you about both teams at this point? Well, what it tells me about the Lakers is no matter who you are in that Western conference

the Lakers are that they're scary I mean, I'm not sitting here telling you I'm picking the Lakers to win anything. But what I am telling you is like you probably want to avoid them. You know what I mean? Like you don't want to see LeBron and AD and you just, you don't want to see them. So they could pop up, get hot, look good, and be just about anybody. I don't know that they could sustain that. But I think that's when you're asking me what that game says, like sort of like that.

Dallas has to get it figured out. They're really good offensively. You know, I saw the J.Kidd interview after the game saying we've got to grow up. I heard people speculating as to who they thought he was kind of lobbing that out to. I don't know. I'm not going to speculate. But I think generally speaking, they do have to grow up in terms of they don't have a lot of time to get this figured out. That maturing as a unit process, that kind of.

chemistry building, that has to take place on a, on a, on a quicker trajectory. We don't have the time. We got 20, 20 games left to get this figured out. And so, you know, they're just, you know, defensively, it's going to be a struggle. So that just means that offensively, we got to be really, really dialed in, right? Like, it's a sliding scale. The worst we are defensively, the better we got to be offensively. And they've got to get that figured out. Now, you know, the Lakers, the Lakers are interesting because, I mean, I don't think they're great either offensively or defensively. They're not great either offensively or defensively.

But because of, because of LeBron and AD, if health, you know, is there and they're coming down the stretch, I would just probably want to avoid them. Like, I'm not saying I'd be scared at them, but I just want to avoid them, right? Like it's one of those things. If you can, why not? Kerm, are you doing okay, bud? Are you okay? Yeah, it's a little slander there, Raja.

I don't know. I'm just saying, man. Them role players looking nice right now. Vando was, he took over yesterday. No slander. I mean, I don't, again. I don't, I mean. Fair enough.

You didn't say it was trash. You know how these Laker fans are, Roger. You know how they are. I'm just saying post all-star break. They three and oh with this new. roster. Three-note this new roster. The role players,

they role-playing. That's all I'm saying. You got Vando who took over yesterday, Malik Beasley, terrible shooting night, no D-Lo, but we get a guy like Vando that comes in and literally

puts his imprint on the game in a way that they're kind of everywhere defensively and garden, you know, Luca, Kyrie, and, you know, playing help doing all that.

I'm just saying it might not be a championship this year. But shit, dog, if they get in the playing, something could happen. Don't roll your eyes and be Logan. Something could happen. Thank you, Kerm. Thank you, Kerm. Thank you, Kerm. I ain't matter, Kerm.

Currge and want to hop on the mic because that's essentially what I said. I have no beef. I'm not counting the Lakers out. They just, again, health is always a critical component to this. I liked the trades that they made around the trade deadline. I'm happy that they are that they're bearing fruit right now.

I don't think that you would want to see the Lakers. It's what I said to start the comments on it. Having said that, I ain't picking the fucking Lakers to win. Bro, you know what's hellful funny to your point about health? LeBron, right after the game. Yeah, my leg is feeling okay. We're just touching go, though.

We'll see what's going on. We'll see in the next couple of days, right? Like that's that's the biggest thing. We're going to go back. I'm not going to say we're going to end this, but I want to talk about your sons because one Kevin Durant is supposed to make his debut this week. What do you think is going to happen? How do you think is that going? Because that's another thing, right?

We're talking about, we're just talking about the Mavericks and just the you got to learn on the fly quickly. I think Katie is going to be at Phoenix a lot longer than like Kyrie is going to be in Dallas. But they still have to figure each other out. What are you looking for for the first few games of this new Phoenix Suns era in Arizona right now? How do you think that's going to play out the first week or two of the Katie era in Phoenix? I don't really know how it's going to play out. I think you will see both Chris Paul and Devin Booker. or do their best to make Kevin Durant feel integrated and valued and all of that.

And at the same time, I think you'll see Kevin probably look a little, I don't want to say tentative because he's never tentative. But I think he's probably going to be feeling, it's a feeling out process. He's going to be feeling out how he gets involved here. They're going to be trying to like make sure that he's fitting in. And so it could look, it could. I'm not saying it will. It could look, you know, a little uneasy to start.

I think they get that figured out really quickly because Kevin Durant's skill set as an offensive player, he can do anything. I mean, you know, he can fit into any equation. Like, bro, like you put Chris Paul and KD on a roster to the smartest guys in the league in terms of IQ and can figure shit out. Like just one way of both savants, 100%. But and so, yeah. But in terms of natural skill sets, when you look at. players and they're put together and you're like, I don't see how that works. Well, Kevin Durant is one of those just like wild cards. He's just got all kind of skill sets. So you, you know, coupled with his

ability and smarts and, you know, IQ is this, this really malleable set of skills where you could just say, hey, bro, all right, here's how this is going to look in this, you know, offensive system. Now, you know, get comfortable and let's rock. So I don't know exactly how it will look, but I think it comes together pretty quickly. So Phoenix is interested in me. I was before to I didn't know where we were going to go with this shit. So I was looking, you know, doing a little fucking homework. And I was looking around at like, you know, who I thought would be real contenders, right? Like who fit the criteria?

And, you know, Phoenix really good defensively, but offensively, not great. Do you know what I mean? Like, I also saw, like, on the flip side of that, Milwaukee really good defensively. and not create offensively, right? And I think both of those teams made moves that address that. So you could see them start to like make the moves to, to be in a position, at least historically, analytically speaking, that they would be a true contender, right? Because if you're saying that Phoenix needed to address the offensive side of the ball,

well, I think they've done that in a way that would be very hard to beat. that offense, at least in theory, should be rounding out very nicely and hitting a stride right when you run it to hit. And they're already pretty stout defensively, although you lose some of that. Don't get me wrong. Like you're going to, you lose some real defensive pieces. But, but, KD is a pretty good defender in his own right. And Milwaukee's been playing all year without, you know, not all year, but like Chris Milton's back. Like, they've had some fluctuation of roster too.

Do you know what I mean? So I think offensively, when you're starting to have pieces healthy again, like that starts to look better. And so those were two interesting teams. And I know you didn't ask me about Milwaukee, but I think Phoenix is one of those teams that, you know, as they hit, start to hit an offensive slide, uh, stride, provided they don't have a ton of slippage defensively. Yeah, they could be a real problem. I'll say you what. Give me, Yonis first, Katie, in the finals. I'll take that. Give me seven games of that. I don't know how it'll happen. Well, let's get it. Question for you as a former son. I think I ask you this every time the Sons are really good,

but particularly I think this is a different question because y'all didn't have KD on the roster when I asked you at the beginning. How do you feel as a Sons alum at this point? Just in general, not just the KD move, but just where the Sons seem to be going. You know, ownership change. KD is now on the roster.

They are making a push to win a title this year, and they have a good chance of doing it. How do you feel right now just as a fan of the Phoenix Suns? It was probably bittersweet. Like there were some people that moved in that trade, and that's always a hard thing as a fan, when you've attached yourself to guys who have gone so far in the playoffs. But you wind up with Kevin Durant.

And, I mean, that's really exciting. And what you could envision it being at its best, with Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, and Devin Booker is a beautiful thing, you know, offensively. And so I think, you know, the Valley and the Suns fans probably needed a little shot in the arm. New ownership and James Jones provided them that with the moves, not scared to roll the dice. And I think it's going to be a great run in Phoenix this year in the playoffs. And then obviously, you know, as you approach another opportunity to find pieces that fit, you know, I think James has showed you his ability to do that.

And with ownership support, I think they continue to build that. Like, I'm really excited as a former son. I'm imagining once you get over the initial loss of some of your, you know, every fan has his favorite. It's not necessarily like the biggest star on your team. So some of those dudes that moved might have been, you know, might have been pieces that people are like, oh, shit, man, we had to get rid of, but once you see it cooking the way it could possibly cook, you're going to be fine.

If the new ownership calls, be like, right. We got first class C for you to Sky Harbor. And we got, we got a sweet. Why would they do that? We got a suite for you to come back. You know what I mean? We're going to pull up. Will you go to a game, Ron?

I would definitely go to a Phoenix. Very hard to get you out of the house. It is. I would go to a son's game. We got plans on going back to Phoenix. I haven't been back to Phoenix at a long time, man. My kids were born there. I owe them a trip.

I owe my wife a trip. I owe a bunch of friends out there a trip. I just got to get around to doing it. I really, yeah, I would definitely go see a son's game. I love the son. That was my favorite, you know, my favorite stop. Like, I love the sons. hashtag get Roger to Phoenix, all right?

All right. He may not get verified, but maybe we get public pressure to get him to fucking Phoenix because, you know, it's not going to happen now, but it's not going to happen. I'm done trying.

It would be a slap in the face to get verified at this point. Did you know Facebook is now doing the pay for verification now? And so like, but you as an Instagrammer, has already, I've already had the verified place.

So you, it's already, you're already set in stone there. But it's interesting. Yeah. The verified is this kind of trash now. It's okay. Who wants it now? You can pay for it.

Yeah, I'm not, I ain't paying for none of that. Keep that. I ain't doing that. Shit. But on that note, that has been, we are back, ladies and gentlemen. Real ones are ready for the stretch run. That has been our Monday edition. We will see you guys on Thursday.

Talk real, real, real soon. I don't know what Kerm's up to right now with his Lakers' stand. Maybe he'll be in a better place or maybe he's in a good, place. Who knows? Maybe, uh, I don't know what's going to happen, Ben. We'll see what happens. We'll see you guys Thursday. Talk to y'all soon. Hala.