The Ringer NBA Show - Breaking Down the Nets’ Big Win Over the 76ers | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 14, 2022

Logan and Raja first talk about Kevin Garnett’s jersey retirement in Boston and the dry-aged beef between KG and Ray Allen (1:00). Then they dive into the Nets’ blowout win over the 76ers last week (9:00) and the Bucks’ loss to Golden State (30:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Sasha Ashall Associate Producer: Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Benefer is back. Brad and Jen are friends again, and Paris Hilton is somehow still making headlines. 20 years later, we're living in the world that the 2000s tabloids created. On this series, I'm going to tell you the story of a decade of American life through the trash we love to consume. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, I'm Claire Malone, and this is just like us, the tabloids that changed America. Listen on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Poppin. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Roger, how was your weekend, buddy?

Big tings, bro, big things. My weekend was great, buddy. I'm a little tired. Got in late last night, but I'm good. You're good, man? You're good? You're doing all right. Yeah, same.

All right, I got a quick question for you because I was, you know, perusing the, you know, the newsletters, the websites, everything, just to, you know, find content for us, right? Yep. And I came across, you know, the Celtics celebration of Kevin Garnett. And one notable thing happened. You know, Ray Allen was in the stands and, or not in the stands, he was on the floor. And, you know, KG is doing his monster speech. And he tells Ray Allen to come over.

And they embrace for a hug. and then Kevin Garnett says, retire his jersey, damn it. And all the thing was kumbaya and all these things, right? And I just want, this is coming on the backdrop of just a decade, nearly a decade of just like, you know, back and forth, sublims, all these things. And I think I just want to ask an overall question because you've been,

you're in this fraternity. Why are you NBA players so petty, man? Why? Why? Why, why all do, why? Why? Why does it do that? Why do you guys do all this?

Why does it take all these things? And I'm not specifically talking about Ray Allen and Kevin and Kevin Garnett. But it's just a sports-wide thing of just pettiness. Why? Why does this happen? Why do NBA players do this, Roger? Why does it take so long to bury the hatchet between athletes? Why?

Well, I think it's a generational thing, first, Logan. Like, I don't think today's NBA player in 15 years will have the same sort of relationship or lack thereof with the competitor. I think there's way more kumbayanness now. You grow up playing each other in in every kind of AAU game and select team and and you're at all these camps together. And so you develop friendships. We were laughing yesterday in the RV back from the Elite 11 with my son.

Shout out to him. Shout out to him. Shout out to D.D. Golden gun up there at that bad boy. But we were saying my dad and I, a little one of Dias like contemporary. in the class of 2026 for like best quarterbacks in Florida was shouting him out on Twitter and was genuinely excited for his accomplishment yesterday.

And we said to each other like, man, that's pretty cool that these guys can be competitors like that fighting for the same thing and still be cool with one another, like genuinely because we couldn't. Like my dad's generation and my generation, which Kevin Durant and Ray Allen fall into. Kevin Garnett. Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen.

You know, you had a chip on your shoulder. or a different kind of chip. There wasn't as much interaction. You couldn't reach out via social media and know what was going on with everyone. There wasn't as much national event type of situations to be in where you really got to know someone. And so there was this chip and there was this guard

and we played like that. And you didn't let people in that much unless they were your teammate. Now, clearly those two were teammates, but I think it speaks to the overall mindset of a player from that generation where it was like a war. You know, when I went out on a floor,

I had convinced myself that somebody on the other team said something about my mama. Every game. Every game. Even if I had played with you, like I had whipped myself into such a frenzy when I went back to, when Phoenix came to us after Phoenix traded me. And Steve Nash was, you know,

my best friend in the league at the time. But still one of your best friends now. I was going to try to kill him. Yeah. You know, like, I just, you know, just saw a clip. Of you, it was a regular season game against the Lakers, and you're wearing Kobe's,

and you get in, you were in Utah, and you're in this motherfucker's face because you're going full court press on him, and, like, they have to hold you back because you're talking so much shit, Rasha. That's, that's where we're painting a picture of a type of player you were back then. This was like a fucking mundane January game, but go, but go ahead. But no, that's what, that's the way I played. And not for nothing. Like, that's a viral clip I've seen it, too, and a lot of jokes have been.

had at my, you know, at my expense, but it's the way we played. And Kobe was like that too. Don't get that twisted. Now, I would often get the short end of that stick and my job was the thankless job. But Kobe operated in the same space. Every time you saw him, it was on. Like, and, you know, was like that with KG, too? Every time you saw KG was on. Every time. It was locked in, mumbling, cursing. Um, you know, just cursing at you. He was worse. So he was worse than me in that. Like, you thought he might be crazy. He might be off, you know?

And it's just the way he played. And Kobe was more refined with his. Like, he was a lot more subtle. The camera didn't catch as much. But, you know, the reactions that you see, like, my reaction in that clip, that wasn't just, like, me bugging out. That was a, we had been at it for a while in that game. And so, you know, that's the way a lot of us played in that generation.

So I think that's a long answer to your very short question. Okay. So now as you've seen that, right, because I think when we, there was a turn of this new generation coming in of just like really liking each other. And there was a pushback to that. Right. There was just like, wow, these motherfuckers like each other and things like that. Can you just set me the example of like, what is it like when a, during your era, right? When you're coming up, do you guys just not know each other as much?

you guys are isolated from is it a little bit more isolation when you guys were growing up to to what what do you think are the seeds of this much like vitriol when when you feel someone crosses you even if it's like because we the the the the the the ray allen situation and in boston is very nuanced right they tried to trade him a few times and any that's a short short story they tried to trade him a few times and he said well fuck it i'm going to sign with the miami heat you know, I don't, and then on the other side, you got Kevin Garnett talking about loyalty and things like that. What do you, I think my question is, what precipitated all of this, you know, this type of reaction to someone leaving in a way that it's just not like that anymore? Well, we weren't, we didn't, the era right before us, there, there was almost no star movement.

in the NBA. You know, like you, you know, MJs and Larry's and and magics, like not of your own not doing, you know, you weren't picking your destination and just casually moving around and starting fresh. I have no beef with it now, but I mean, that's, it just wasn't happening. So in our era, we hadn't, and the collective bargaining agreement was different. I don't think people wielded the same sort of leverage that they do now. So you just weren't used to seeing it. And, you You know, Ray was a start. Now, to your original point, no, there wasn't as much national opportunity for really, really good basketball players to all be on the same floor, 10, 11, 12 times a year.

That didn't exist. No, there were camps and stuff where it did happen, but it was far less, it was far less opportunity to do so. So you didn't get to know each other. And then, you know, the social media, like, I couldn't follow all your stuff and like it. I'm not present on your Instagram page. So, you know, you don't know that I fuck with you like that,

even though we live in opposite sides of the country, you know, like we're not cool. We can't DM each other like that. There were no text messaging. There was no phones. You just, you didn't have those type of relationships that people have now. So the familiarity wasn't there. This is interesting to me because, you know, Ray played,

Ray's from South Carolina or played in South Carolina for high school and came up in South Carolina and Kevin Garnett, too. So I don't know their personal history that preceded them. playing together with Boston. I don't know if there were some sour grapes or some seeds, you know, sold when they were younger that just kind of festered underneath. I don't really know what their relationship is. But I think KG felt betrayed.

I think he felt like they had, you know, something good cooking. They were right there. They were, you know, they were dominated. LeBron felt like he had to make the move to get out of the east. And I think he feels like if Boston didn't lose Ray, they would have kept riding for a while. And so that's just, you know, that's a personal beef, brother. Speaking of personal beef, Roger, I am glad that, you know, we have a chance to talk about this. On Thursday, there was a game that we were like lightweight preview.

And we couldn't really preview it the way we wanted. We couldn't really talk about it the way we wanted to because it hadn't happened yet. Right. And that is the Sixers Nets. was just a it was just a it was just a beat down it was a beat down dude

um I remember there was a point in the podcast where we're talking to charts from upside high make sure you guys go check that out we were talking to sharks and I just brought up the point of just like are the six

are just going to go out and just you know just run the table is that what was just going to happen right now and both of you guys look looked at me with the like a chill relax also what are you even talking about what what what what and I'm like well no they got like you know they got Joe L&B James Hardin is running a four at three 40 and you know it's going to work out right none of that happened none of that happened absolutely none of that happened I thought that it was this was a game where Kevin

and Kyrie were locked in in a way that just you don't really see often yeah you probably see that You see that, definitely not in the regular season, you don't see that. Those are usually, those performances are usually locked in for the playoffs, where they're just hitting everything. I think in the first couple of minutes, you kind of saw the tone being said when Kevin just went down the lane and just dunked it, just yelled obscenities to the front, to the front row. Just some old school shit. But my question to you is, we'll talk about the Nets point of view in a second, but I want to talk about the Sixth's point of view. because all season, Joelle M. Bid has been asking, yo, can you just give me somebody?

Can you give me somebody? Give me a piece. Give me somebody that I just need. I'm doing my thing. I can roll with it. Just give me something. And then that piece just lays an egg in the biggest juncture of the season.

I don't know, is this tenable? Are we going to, what were your reaction seeing that, that performance by Philly? My reaction was that clearly that meant more to Brooklyn than it meant to Philly for one reason or another. It meant more to them. Sometimes hostile environments can galvanize an opposing team.

It looked like that happened, right? They knew that they were going into. They knew what the level of vitriol for Ben Simmons was going to be in the building, the booze, and they were ready to go. I would throw Seth Curry in the mix with Kevin Durant and Kyrie came out setting the tone, like just locked in. You know, he had just been traded. He was on that shit.

I told you, I was on the first. time we saw the suns like, hey, yeah, points will be proven today. And so it meant more to them. They were more locked in. They were more focused. Their energy was greater. You could feel it. Philly.

And as it pertains to James Hardin being the piece that Ben Simmons needs, I believe him to be that. I believe him to be that. And I'll temper it like kind of a bit because I will acknowledge the fact that they hadn't played great teams yet. Like, they hadn't played really, you know, any great team to see what that looked like against higher level of competition. They were kind of running through, you know, lower wrong teams early. But it looked good.

And I still think it will look good. The end game is to win a championship in Philly, though. It's not to be in the Eastern Conference finals. It's to win a championship. And what I'll say about that, I'm not here to bash James Harden and I'm not going to do that, is he's got to figure out how to consistently, an NBA star in the moments that define NBA stars the most. That's when your team needs you the most.

It's quite frankly, you know, what will determine your legacy as, as, you know, the career winds down. And as of now, he has not delivered consistently in the big moments. Now, we can say he has at times. You could say, you know, his teams have suffered injuries that have impacted their ability. And all of that's fair.

And I'm not here to bash him. I'm simply saying, you have to be consistently better in those big moments. And if he can't figure that out, they won't win a championship. Because now it's, you know, now it's starting to become a narrative, Logan.

Like a couple times, you're like, okay, you know, yeah, coincidence. Like, this is a pattern now. I was going to say that. I mean, everyone can say, oh,

it's just a regular season game. Oh, you know, that wasn't a regular season game. That was like one of, it wasn't a playoff game, but it also wasn't a regular season game. No, no, no, no, no, that was a playoff game. That was a playoff game. Okay. Well, it was a playoff game for Brooklyn. Yeah.

But I'm saying, it's, you know, like during the season, there's like a couple games that, you know, that set the tone, right? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I didn't mean to interrupt. I'm sorry, but that's a playoff game. That game, after everything that transpired, that's a fucking playoff game. We're on the same page here. So I'm just, you brought up a pattern.

And everybody can say. But you could say, what I'm saying, though, is you can make, there's going to be the casual fan that says, oh, man, it's just a March game, right? It doesn't really mean anything. But when you talk about James Harden and his legacy, and we're always in legacy talk, right? We're in this space where we talk about legacy in real time and how these little moments, you know, play out in over a course of career. But I would just like to just point out some things, right?

Let's just go a couple years ago, right? where, you know, 2019, you have a game six at home, semifinals, right, that everyone is expecting you to win

against the warriors. Undermanned warriors. You don't figure it out. There is a 2018 conference finals. Guys would 65 wins, I think,

the rocket's had something along the line. That had more than 60 wins. What happens? Go into the Western Conference finals. Have a three, two lead in the Western Conference Finals.

Have us game seven at home, Roger Bell. Game seven at home. I know what the Phoenix Suns did at a game seven at home once upon a time, but took care of business. Doesn't do it. In fact, we're up 20, missed 20-something threes in a row, at home, lose the game.

Then you have 2017, where, you know, you guys are, you know, you're an MVP candidate. just manage the nobly and Kauai just take your lunch against spurs when you're playing against the spurs.

Then 2015, I can go down the line, 2015, when you said that Steph shouldn't be MVP, you should have been MVP. Fair point, because if 2015,

James Hardham was a monster. Right. Go and play against the Warriors. What happens? You're losing five. There's a pattern here. And he's also in this age, I don't know,

he's in his 30s, right? He's not an old guy, but he's not getting any younger. And so you would want to see that sense of urgency, I guess is what I'm saying. When you say the guy, you know, everybody, all the reports and anything you hear about the league is that, you know, you left because Kyrie, you know, had you messed up. Well, do you know how you even prove that Kyrie had you messed up and you were right? You'll ball out against Kyrie. Nah, that didn't happen.

Kyrie's out here muscling you in the post. Kyrie's out here hitting threes in your face. Talking cash shit. Kyrie was as locked in defensively as I've seen him in a long time. And we, Kyrie, here's the thing about Kyrie, especially defensively. Like, he doesn't play defense a lot, but he can play defense. What?

Yeah, absolutely. Especially when he's locked in and the biggest stages, dude can play defense. He was locked in, Kyrie. You know how you prove that you were right? you do it on the floor, especially in front of that Sixers fan base. Roger, what does the Sixers fan base think right now? What do you think?

What's going on? What's going on in there? What are the talk show? What do you think the streets are saying under a performance like that? No, people in Philly, they can't afford right now, okay, as a fan base to turn on someone else, especially this quickly, right? It would be a terrible look. We talk about the optics for players, you know, when you're going somewhere new and, you

Now it's not working again and you want to leave. And if you're always going somewhere and that's happening, and the places you're going, it's you. Billy can't afford that. They can't afford to turn on James right now. You're not going to hear that anywhere. You can't go out anywhere at Billy right now,

mainstream and hear people, you know, are they holding their tongue though? Are they like, are they like, but, okay, okay. But if you go to the underbelly spots, right? If you could find the local bar, barbershops in whatever neighborhood you go to south philly north philly if you could yeah you

could tap in to the undercurrent not the not the stuff on top the barber that still wears the alan iverson jersey from oh one you tap into that and there's some grumblings in philly about what happened it's just not and here's why because you hit a very good on a very good point when you talked about um energy and what was the term you used you said you wanted to to see him, damn, why can't I recall what you just said, man? We kept talking. But it basically was saying that... He needed some oomph.

Yeah, that's basically what you were saying. And so what I look at as a player, when I watch that game, is... And I put myself in his Philadelphia teammates jerseys. And I'm saying, damn, what would I need from James Harden in an environment like this? What would we need from a... from him as a team to be successful. And yes, it would be dope if we got the point rebound assist production that we're used to seeing.

But NBA teams are malleable. Like, we get it. You're not going to play great every night. Like, we can move on the fly and shift and pick up pieces of roles. We can do that. Like, it's not, you know, stars are stars for a reason because that's not an every night gig for me. But if I have to step out of my room and hold you down with 10 more points than I usually

score, that happens all the time, right? Like, boom, we can get different stuff from different places. but what we really need out of you is to look like yourself. Not in terms of production, but in terms of body language, but in terms of leadership, but in terms of general fight and spirit.

And that was concerning to me. That's what didn't speak to me as a former player trying to put myself at someone else's shoes about James Hardin that night. I felt that he let them down in that regard. Like, shit, bro, you're having a bad game.

I talk to kids about this shit all the time. Matter of fact, one of my youngans was up there at Elite 11 yesterday. He plays on my basketball team. And he played, he performed well under his standards, Logan. And the conversation to him was this, hey, bro, that happens to everybody. Don't let your face say it. Don't let your body language say it. Be a fighter.

Every time I look down there, I should see you fighting this inner fight with yourself to continue to try to get over what's ailing you today. I looked over at you. You look defeated. When you look defeated, everyone in a building knows you're defeated. Like you should be out there talking to yourself. Like, come on, baby, I got this shit. I could do it.

Come on, though. Hey, guys, I'm straight. I got it. Come on, baby. Here, one more time. Let's go. That's what I would have needed as a James Hardin teammate from James Hardin. Even if I was picking up his slack in other areas.

And they didn't get that. Philly wants you to fight. They want to fight. There was a moment in the beginning of the game where it goes back to your point that it's an overall mindset. But there was a moment in the beginning of the game where Joe L&B gets it in the post. and Kevin Durant one is hacking the fuck out of him

but puts the shoulder in KD and then they go at it right? Yeah. I love that shit. I love watching that shit. I know you love that shit too.

Yes. Where they're just talking shit. Basically, I'm here. I'm here. Yeah. I didn't see that from James Harding. And I think I wish I would have.

I don't care about, I don't even care about the stats. I don't care. I wish James, would have went two of 47, right? I didn't see that. I just, I didn't see him in the frame. I didn't see that.

If a player has you messed up, I think I just wanted him just to be present. There was a, it was, I wasn't in Wells Fargo Arena. I have, I have not had the pleasure of going to a Philly game before, but it was, it looked lit up in there, bro.

It looked, it looked different up in there. There was, it was the, I think somebody said it was one of, it was the highest ticket. in like a few years all to boo this is some Philly shit.

They pay, y'all pay a lot of money to boo people, which I can respect, right? They paid a lot of premium to see the Nets go down. And you know Philly fans, they want to see blood.

They want to see blood on the floor. Right? Yeah. Joel and B. provided that, but he's only one guy. He's only one person. He's only one player.

I, like, I would have wanted to see by new team, mate just get into some shit. In James Hardin's defense. In James Hardin's defense, because I am with you 1,000 percent. Maybe what you're articulating is kind of

you know a situation like in high school when you're like a freshman and you're about to play in that real big rivalry game. And everyone around the school that's been there for a few years knows how much it means to the school. And you just don't really have, you've never been in that environment. You haven't had enough experience in their jersey to know what that means to the school. And so you're not like I've seen that happen. So maybe just given if I could is what I'm

saying James James Hardin didn't really live in Philly or breathe in Philly or wear a jersey long enough to know what seeing Ben Simmons and the Brooklyn Nets come in there meant to the town, the city, the state and Joelle and Bede. And you could see what it meant to Joelle. It ain't mean that. I'll let you I let you say that, Roger. You know when you give me to look like... Yeah, yeah. You know, when you give me that look, when I try to be devil's advocate,

I'm giving you that look right back. You're bugging right now, but I don't believe it. You didn't believe it. You didn't believe it. You didn't believe it. You didn't believe it. You did not believe that. I looked at you in the face,

and I could say, I know when you're serious an argument. I knew that. I mean, you were reaching. That was a space jam Jordan final scene reach, except you didn't make the shot. That's what that was. It's fair.

It's fair. Fair. If this continues to happen, how many months do you give, like, Philly or weeks give Philly before they turn on this team? No, they can't turn. Again, they can't turn on this team. Playoffs. It's got to be playoff failure.

It's got to be an epic playoff failure. Because what's going to happen is if they get into the playoffs and they play well, and they just don't get over the hump. But it's not a meltdown. And James Hardin doesn't have, you know, the moments that we're talking about. And they just get beat by a good team. they're out there in the Eastern Conference. Then what you're going to get out of Philly is, okay, this was, this was, you know,

this is going to be our next year play, right? Like, we knew it was going to take a minute and, you know, yes, we wanted it this year, but it didn't work. Next year, we're going to be fine. That's what you're going to get. They can't turn on them yet. Now, if it's an epic meltdown and you've got a series in hand or one of those situations that you described earlier transpires where, you know, James Hardin just disappears and Philly

tricks off a lead and yeah, I mean, that's a different animal. Okay, Rajah, I have a question for you. Now, if I'm looking at the standings now, sixes are a two-seat at the moment, tied with the bucks. And nets are an eight seat in the playing. I don't know what it has, what has to happen?

I'm not well-versed now, but what if the first round matchup? Roger. Yeah, yeah, you're messy just like I'm messy. You are messy just like I am. I see it. He is, you guys aren't seeing this right now, but he, Roger has the biggest smile he out.

He's doing, he's doing the, he's doing the Harlem shake right now. He's brushing his shoulders. If there is a Nets, Sixers first round matchup, though, Raja.

And that is the epic meltdown that you were speaking of because I'm gonna be real. Be very real. Especially like if it's some shit, we're like, I don't know if Kyrie can play, and that's another thing

that I don't really want to talk about right now, but if Kyrie can't play and can't play to road games and they still win in like six at the next. winning like six, then what happens, Roger? Then what's going on? Yeah, that's the, I mean, that's, it's not to be messy. No, no, no, no, no.

That's the situation that I was talking about. Okay. With gasoline on it. Like, you've just ignited. Now, you're talking about Kyrie. You know what? They just said, you know what. And then Ben Simmons comes back and then like,

if Ben Simmons is present and playing well and whooping that ass, oh my God. And Kevin just says, I'm just going to like, we're just, and they have a rallying cry, Kevin and Kyrie and the rest of the Let's just say, we're going to win it for Ben. We're going to win it for Ben. Oh, now mind you, like Philly fans, ain't nobody saying that's going to happen. Don't hop in here with like, oh, these two.

No, this is make-believe world. If this was a fifth, people. Here's a thing, though. Here's a thing, though. If that were to happen, if that were to happen, Logan, they're out. You know who, we're actually on Philly's fan side, though. We empathize with Philly fans.

They're thinking this shit, too. They're thinking this too. Yeah, sitting in that barbershop this morning, somebody's thinking that shit, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All my broad street bullies. Y'all know what it is. Y'all see it.

It's Monday. Hey, do they cut hair in Monday on Monday in a bank? They don't say, they're stewing right now, Roger. They're stewing. So on Tuesday. Philly fans are, yeah, they're stewing. They're stewing right now, right? They haven't even, like, R.O.G. Barbers, they ain't even had the chance to talk shit.

Well, maybe on Saturday talk shit, but it ain't, it's not, it's not the same as that Tuesday, is that Tuesday during the week when you're in the trenches. And you got a lot of time to think. You got the whole weekend to think about this. It's unfortunate, man. I just, ah. he's a hey well you know this is what separates we i hear the argument for people saying everything doesn't have to be defined by championships or big moments and why can't we just let people

well the reality is they're separators of you know their levels to this shit we talk about it all the time and so when you're putting yourself in multiple MVP conversations and you're doing that and you're playing at a at a certain level and we expect to see you at that level um the the rest of the people that fall into that level in that category we have to separate them so somehow. And whether you play in big moments and whether you can overcome those moments and succeed, like those things become separators of people at those levels. And it's a fair conversation to have because as of as of today, what we have as a sample size for James Hardens, that like the answer to whether or not he can do that consistently enough to win a championship is no. Now,

you know, I actually hope for Philly that he's great. That Joe is great. Philly deserves it, man. Like, yeah. I just want, you know, part of me also thinks this, man, like if Jimmy Butler would have stayed on the team somehow out, that's a perfect marriage. I would have been a perfect marriage. I don't know if they would have won titles. I don't know how big that ceiling would have been.

But, man, that would have been a team that Philly loved. That's random, but I just, you know, I just thought about that. Yeah, I mean, if you could get to where you're saying, if you could get to a point somehow in this magical NBA world where you had Joel and B, Jimmy Butler, and James Harding? Is that what you're telling me? I mean, yeah. I don't know.

I don't know. Also, man, also. No, but I mean like if you had that trifect of talent, like, yeah, it'd be dope. It'd be dope. All my Broad Street bullies, keep your head, man. Keep your head, you know. Hey, all my Broad Street barbers, please don't be nicking nobody fucking up their line just because you upset. Please don't do that.

Don't do that. You know. But let's take a quick break. I want to talk about the rest of the Eastern Conference. Ra, we are back. So it took a little field trip on Saturday, you know. There's only a few players in the league. I know you're kind of far removed from this and like you don't never lead a house for shit.

You know, I don't know this. You don't ever leave the house. But there's a few players in the league that no matter what, if they're in the general vicinity of me, I have to go see. No matter what. There is, I think it's Kevin, it's Steph, it's Luca, it's, it's, it's, it's, John Morant, friend of the show. It's another guy that's always on that list, no matter what. Trey Young's on that list, too.

Yeah. But Janus, I did a cumbo. You know, Janus is one of those guys. A circle on the calendar. If I'm going to be in town, I'm going to go watch him. No matter what, I have to go see him play basketball. So he came to the Bay Area. With an underman buck squad, you know, Pat Connington wasn't playing.

Brooke Lopez was not playing. but Middleton was playing and he was playing and Yonis was playing. You know, they had enough of a squad. And they just got ran out of the building. And I don't want to take stock in, you know, I haven't watched a ton of Bucks games this year. I don't want to take much stock into it.

But the way I saw their roster make up, and, you know, they're a big old school team with a lot of older bigs. You know, they got a Serge Abaka, who could still hit that three, and he will let you know about it. and they have Brooke Lopez who's coming off of a long-term injury, who's 33, 34 years old.

And, you know, it's just an old school type team. And I'm just, I just wonder about them because, you know, they ran a table last year. And as of right now, they're tied for a third in the Eastern Conference. But a lot of people have them in favor to come out of the East. I just, from what I saw, I think got to pump the brakes a little bit. Okay. Well, I would, then let me reverse our rules.

What about what you saw gives you pause for making the claim that they could come out of the east, given what we know about the flaws and the rest of the teams in the Eastern Conference? I think the biggest thing is just like, I'm not a fan of like, I haven't fully, I know the league has like gone, just done this reverse of just going, We're going to go big. We're going to go fully big. I'm just not, I'm not on board with that just yet. You know, I do think that, you know, we've, we haven't talked about Miami a ton,

but I think Miami with their influx of guards and a mobile big, like Bametabio, can really wreak havoc on a Buc's team. And that's something that I know that they're good. And I think, you know, the more that I think about, I just don't know about this Eastern conference. I just don't know what's going to shake out in this Eastern conference because every team has question marks. And is that, I think my overall question and something that I've been thinking about is,

is that good for the league that we just don't have a clear-cut team that's just going to run the table or two clear-cut teams that are just going to run the table? Does that help us because we have more foddered to talk about because we really don't know anything and that we could, or is it bad that we don't have like a clear-cut favorite? on honestly either side of the NBA? I think overall for viewing purposes, it's good that you don't have a clear-cut favorite. At least for me, I know super teams, people love them and stuff like that,

but I like watching, you know, not knowing what the outcome is going to be and kind of being surprised at times. I don't want somebody running the table. I think the Eastern Conference is as interesting this year as it's been in a long time for my money just because of the uncertainty. I would agree with you that I don't trust Milwaukee necessarily. Like I said it, I don't know. What was this? Was it a month ago?

A month and a half ago maybe? Yeah. And we were talking about Milwaukee. And you made the point that I had to acknowledge that Brooke Lopez, you know, hadn't been there all year. And maybe that's what my eye was kind of like, you know, subconsciously missing. And it is. It is. After reflecting and watching like that, without Brooke Lopez, that was a huge part of who your defensive identity was. And they are currently sitting outside the top 10 in defensive efficiency for the first time in a while.

And a lot of that, in large part, has to do with that big shot blocking vertical presence at the rim. Like Brooke Lopez was a really, really good defensive piece for them. and it gave them depth in the front court. It gave them someone that could, you know, pick and pop on the offensive end and knock down three, stretched the floor, keep space for Janus with a big having to honor that.

Like, it gave them versatility. And missing that, I wouldn't have them head and shoulders above anyone in the east. Now, I still think they could win the east because I think they're a tough out in a playoffs. You beating them on a night in Golden State? Okay.

locking down and stopping what they could become in the playoffs, like when they're going ISO with Janice, and then they're going ISO with Chris Middleton, who wasn't great, by the way, in Golden State. You know, at Drew Holiday, when he gets to cooking, I think they're built for the playoffs more than some teams. And so I don't see it being right easy in a seven-game series. Is that why you think they get the benefit of doubt for most observers?

Because every time I see people talk about the league and who's going to go to the title, it's makes you guys, it goes to the bucks, which is true, they're the champs. like, of course. But do you think that's the reason why everyone is like, hey, they always give the bucks that benefit of the doubt no matter how good or bad they play, at least from a national standpoint, is that because that their team more built for the postseason?

Or I just, I always feel like there's always a team that people just say, yeah, man, just make sure, you know, they're the team that you need to focus on when they also don't always earn it. Like, yeah, there could be, there could be some of that and it could be laziness, is what you're saying right now, where you're like, oh, they won the championship. so it's got to go through them. Like I don't necessarily operate like that unless your roster is sound and kind of the same. When you're missing a piece like Brooke Lopez and you've lost some of your depth,

I don't think you can treat it like that. Now, I do believe that some people are looking at them because of what they've been able to do defensively in years past when they're whole and how long, athletic, versatile, you know, they can become and how hard it is when they really lock into what you're doing, how hard it can become to score on them. But if you're not factoring in the slippage that's there in the numbers and the fact that they don't have Brooke, then again, you're kind of being lazy with that. I think more than anything, what people are looking at is they've proven, you know, that they can run that gauntlet and win the chip. Janus is as dominant and unstoppable of forces there is in the

NBA. And then you've got, again, Chris Middleton, who's now a perennial all-star, and Drew Holiday, who's one of the best guards in the league. And you can put those two pieces on your two best offensive wings in most scenarios. And they can, you know, I'm not saying stop them, but they can put up a good fight. But so I still like the bucks. But I like Brooklyn if they're whole and they're playing well down the stretch at Ben Simmons is, is kind of integrated into the mix. I like the Sixers again. I don't think James Hardin is going to poop the bed. I don't. I think he'll be okay. I don't. I really don't. I think, and again, do they win a chip? I don't know, but I think he's going to be formidable enough like the team's going to be all right in the

playoffs. They're dangerous. And I like Miami, but my concern about Miami and I said this to a dude the other day, not that you asked me, but allow me. Okay? They just, I don't think they have the star. They don't have the dude. The closest thing they have to it offensively right now is Tyler Hero. Like, like Jimmy hasn't been that dude this year offensively. Yeah. What do you? Or you're like, Hey, man,

we need a bucket. You think about the Celtics. Yeah, and the Cs too. Forgive me, but the Celtics, the Celtics, too, because they have two dudes

who can get buckets and they're, they're one of the best teams in the league defensively, and that's, you know, God, bro,

you're gonna get me out. Maybe it's the coffee kicking in. I don't know. I got you in a bag right now. It is about defense, bro. Yeah, yeah. Also,

the bulls kind of regressed to me, too, you know. You called that. I don't know. I just, And you're right. You know, after we talk all this,

bucks are, bucks would be the team to beat by all that logic, right? They are. They're the champs. They're number two. They'll figure it out. But it's just interesting, man. I think,

I think all I'm saying is, we don't know what the fuck's going to happen. And it's, I think, I think that's what's hard right now because we, for the last few years, we've been able to pencil teams in,

right? Yeah. Like, first was the Warriors, then was the Lakers. And we always, We thought the Nets just had a, you know, we just thought that they were, put three all-stars like that together, superstars like that together, we're going to figure itself out. It's just interesting to look at a league now that where there are no answers.

There's clearly no answers. I think it's exciting. Yeah. No, I do. I think it makes for, or at least hopefully it'll make for some really entertaining, you know, early series in this year's playoffs. No, I'm excited for it. Um, LeBron is creeping up on Carmelon on that scoring record. Hey, Brian, get them buckets, dog.

So about all. Just get the buckets, bro. We're not going to talk a lot about this, but it's hard to watch the Lakers now, man. Get the buckets. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. That's what people are coming for.

Yeah. It's what people are buying tickets for in L.A. right now. Unless you couldn't get seats to the big game and somebody just gifted you seats to, like, There ain't nobody coming. They're coming to see LeBron and get 50 right now, dog. And stare down on people's girlfriends. They're staring down. That's when they're coming to see LeBron.

The show that is LeBron James. People, people, you a wild boy. People go to Laker games no matter what, man. You know how L.A. is. They just want to be seen. That's true. People just want to be seen. And crypto arena is a great place to be seen.

They'll be at the games. That's true, man. Ain't nobody. Okay, all right, all right, all right. They don't go to Clipper games. Clippers's been good for a long time. They don't go to that. Outside.

Outside of the fact that people go to the crypto arena to be seen, is it more likely that they go to the game to see LeBron James score a bunch of points right now or to watch good basketball and cheer for a Laker team that they think could win a title? Which one of those is more true after? That's fair. That's fair. But even their devs are not going for entertainment value because even in the wake of LeBron being like amazing and he has been amazing, those games have not been good, bro.

Those games suck. Now, what I would say to anybody listening, if anyone's listening, go see LeBron. You deserve it. If you're an NBA fan, I didn't say that earlier, LeBron. And I just have to just do this just for the record. LeBron is also, like, obviously a guy you have to see whenever he's in your region, bro. Whenever he's in within close proximity, LeBron James. Oh, you wanted to go back and check that box?

I had to. That's an egregious box not to check, bro. That's very, that's terrible. That's not a good place. But I would pay, I would pay right now to watch LeBron in the quest to pass Carl Malone. Like every time you, you can, I'd be telling you this all the time. You can get into arena at any point. You just don't like to.

You just don't do it. Do you think I can? I know you can. How? How would that work? Bro, are you serious right now? Well, I just walk up to the gate and be like, let me in. Nah, bro.

You know how many people you got where you live that you know that can get you into FTX arena? So, no, so expel this out for me because I don't, I don't, I don't, don't like to do it. I don't ask favors from anyone. That's the thing. So explain how this works. Who do I call? Tell me who I call with the heat.

I never played for the heat. Tell me who I call. Hey, bro. You think it's, who do I call? I told you this already. I was like, yo,

you know, Leonardo Robosa might be going, you know, go see an old friend, you know, go see somebody. You're talking about, yeah,

I could call somebody on a staff that you would want to see, bro. Anytime you want, you know everybody in this league. You just don't like, you just don't like getting out the house and you just like don't like driving, bro.

Like, I don't, you could do it, but you over, I'm just, I live 40 minutes from the Miami, we hold people accountable on this podcast, because I know you would do this. You call bullshit on me all the time. I'm calling bullshit on you saying that you would go out and go watch. So you're saying, all right, all right, all right, big game. Let's say a heat game that is,

the heater not playing someone, um, that I have a personal relationship with. So I can't call. someone on the rockets and get a ticket because I don't know nobody on a goddamn rockets. So you're saying I would be able to just hit up the Miami heat. I probably could.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. I hit up Steve and I hit up Steve. Yeah. Yeah, okay. God damn it. All right, fine. I'm like going to the fucking games.

Thank you. The parking is too fucking obnoxious. Thank you. I don't. I don't. Yeah. I don't like it. Sorry.

You got kids. You don't want to fucking get them ready to go and shit. It's okay. It's just like it's a lot. It's 12 o'clock by the time we get home. My five-year-old's up at 645. Like, who wants to do that shit? Also, bro, like, and I aspire to this.

I say this at some, like, with all love and respect. You're washed now. You don't want to do all this shit, bro. It's a lot of fucking work to go all the way to Miami and fucking go to a game. You just said I was washed, bro. You washed me? Yeah. That's how you did me?

You act. Like, what you just say, bro? What you just say? What you just say? Priorities change, dog. Like, what? I just said I aspired to it. It's not too much.

It's not that bad of it. It's not a dis. I mean, I get me a nice, like, bourbon or a cab and sit on the couch and I can pause and rewind my feet are up. You see how you're saying now? My toes don't hurt at the end of the night. Like, I mean, that just sounds so much better. And I know when you go to a really, you got to talk to people you don't really want to talk to

and shit and you're just all talked out. You're leaving by the third quarter no matter what's going on in the game. You're leaving. You're not going, you're not staying for the whole time. Oh, no, no, no, no. We're out there half time. My son said to me the other day, you know how many conversations I have with people where I'll have one of my sons next to me.

And they'll be like, yo, dad, who was that? And we've talked for three minutes. And I'd be like, I don't know who the fuck that was. And they'd be like, they'll just be laughing. I'm like, I don't, I dude, I don't know who that was. Or like the other day, I was hysterical laughing. Some dude said something after a three minute conversation. And he busted out hysterical laughing.

So I just busted out hysterical laughing. And he walked away. And Ty was standing next to me. He said, Dad, what do you say? I said, Ty, I don't fucking know. That's how you just get out of conversations. That's all that is. You just get out of conversation.

I told him it's a lot easier that way, Holmes. I just keep it moving. So those are the reasons I don't go to games, Logan. Yeah. So don't give me that shit. Yeah, yeah. Don't give me that shit. I know you.

I know you wouldn't do it. I know you wouldn't do it. Maybe LeBron if he goes and like if he was going to, if you knew he was going to break the record that night. But he would have to break in the first quarter and you're leaving by by half time. Full disclosure, I might go to the Brooklyn game when they're in Miami a couple weeks. I might go to that one. I might see you there.

Oh. Oh. What? Did I say that? What? Did I say that? Bricking? I don't know. Did I say that? I don't know if I said that. Did I? What did you say? What message?

Okay. Did you watch Snowfall yet? Have you seen the last episode of Snowfall? No, no. No, you haven't seen this weekend, bro. Yeah, let me chill. Uh-uh, don't do it. Do not do it. We'll push that. Have you watched that, uh, what's, what's it called?

The Laker, the Laker, uh, winning time? I have one time. I've only seen, I've only seen, I've seen an episode one. I've seen, like, halfway through the second one. I like it. I like it. I know that there's a lot of stuff going on about like Jerry West and like all the stuff. I'm, I'm going to be honest with you, man.

I'm, I'm here for just the entertainment value. And I don't really care. It's a dramatization, and I'm just going to watch it. Jerry doesn't like the way he's been depicted so far. Right. Did you see how Jerry's been depicted, bro? Bro, they went in on Jerry. They went in on Jerry, bro.

I would be mad if I was Jerry West. However, but it's all got nothing to do with me. That has nothing to do with me. The facts. But it's really good. What do you think of it? I think it's really good. I like it.

I like it. I like it, I like it too. I, you know, a little peek behind the curtain. I would have been too young to know to have known any of that, but it's, it's been fascinated so far one episode in. I'm like hooked, you know. The debate didn't have to sit in the water too long. You got me.

Yeah, we out here. Also, man, you are so far behind on this. Billions. I'm out in Chuck Rhodes. I'm out on them. I was a Chuck Rhodes guy. You know I was a Chuck Roots stand. The last two episodes, I'm fully caught up, by the way.

The last two episodes have just like broken my heart. I'm broken. The roller coaster ride that is Chuck Rhodes. I am broken. It will take you through this emotional journey of just fuck. Oh, you're out. Broken, bro. Like, just the way he does Wendy Rhodes, I just can't do it.

I just, I can't. You know I'm a Wendy Rhodes stand. You know I'm a Wendy Road stand. Yeah, I mean, that's complicated, man. It's a complicated thing. I'm back like a season, I think. And so I am at the point where, where am I at? Chuck just hit her with like, this is what he wants from, from, like,

yeah, from the settlement. And I'm, I'm kind of at that point. So I, I'm back. I can't, I can't really get into it. But I'm still at a point where, I'm still at a point where I'm team Chuck on that whole, you know, thing because, you know, like, I'm still team Chuck. You see why I was team Chuck. You see why I was team Chuck for like a bit, right?

You see where I'm at with it, right? But I'm also a whole season ahead of you. And I'm broken, Roger. I know. That's not. Fucking broken. You've made me sad because now that's what I'm going to loom over every episode I watch. I'm just going to be waiting for him to fumble a bag.

Yeah. I mean, as he typically does. He never wins. And that has been another edition of our Monday, real ones, which you check us out every Monday and Thursday. Man, we have some cool little episodes basically. You guys want to go back, listen to our Mavericks week last week. Listen to when we had Mark Cuban on You know, we had Jonathan Sharks

We got some, we got we coming with some Hitas, man. We got some stuff going, dude. All right, make sure you guys go check out In our Bar Mony Jones episode. You know, he had his show Game Theory. That was pretty cool. But in the meantime, make sure you check out our ringer slate

That is upside high As Weekes with Woz. That is Fall in the Void! That's the Void with KOC. Make sure you check out group chat. Make sure you check out the answer with Siritz-Souhi and Chris Ryan. Make sure you check out the ringer

music show with Charles Holmes. I'm going to be on that on Wednesday. Make sure you check that out. We're talking Atlanta. Do you watch Atlanta? Watch Atlanta a little bit? No, no. Okay. That's not your will house. I don't think it's right. What's that? That's Donald Glover. Show with Donald. No? Okay.

Okay. To reverse this somber note, let's keep the propaganda. Make sure you check out R2C2 with who, Roger Bell. Crest-side clown. Vallejo legend C.E C-C-Sabatio. Make sure you check out Black Girl's songbook with who. Rajabelle, keep it going.

Town legend. That would be town legend, Miss Danielle Smith. We'll see you guys on Thursday. Holla.