The Ringer NBA Show - Breaking Down the Rookie Extension Deadline Buzzer-Beaters. Plus, Awards and Finals Picks. | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 20, 2025

Justin and Rob start by discussing some of the notable rookie extension contracts that got signed today. Then they look back at their power rankings and discuss whether any news or injuries have changed their opinion of a team. To wrap, they run through some news and notes from the preseason before they give their award predictions and a finals pick. Intro: (0:00:11) Rookie Extensions: (2:08) Power Rankings Mulligans: (29:32) Preseason News and Notes: (43:58) Predictions: (49:24) Hosts: Justin Verrier and Rob MahoneyProducers: Ben Cruz, Isaiah Blakely, and Victoria Valencia The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and sitting right next to me. It's Rob Mahoney. What's up, buddy? Not a lot. I am recently revived from the dead. I've been battling illness for what feels like months now. But I'm alive with the spirit of the NBA season.

I simply could not miss the start of all this. What's your cough for 36 right now? It's terrible. Or good? I guess it depends on your frame of mind. Yeah. So we're recording this on the eve of the NBA season yet again. I think this is my 18th season.

covering the NBA. How does that make you feel? Old as shit. But these bones are still getting up for it. I'm very excited for tomorrow. You know what made me feel old as shit? Someone for a social clip, I'm so sorry for not attributing, I can't remember who did this,

past Cooper flag, a pack of basketball cards from his birth year, opened it, and had to see how many players he recognized alarmingly few, and yet these are our guys. It was like, the level of awareness among the youth of even, like, Hidu Turcolu, is devastatingly low. Yeah, they did one.

of those social clips for one of the overseas games where they're like, oh, the last time we've been in this location, I forgot the location, it was like a LeBron team versus, I want to say the magic when Dwight were there and the players could not get any of them. I think like, Yeager Demmon was like, oh, I was one when this game happened. I was like, Jesus Christ, time has passed us by. So wait, do you know what season this is for you? You haven't been tracking this, like, religiously? Like I'm since 2008. Okay. It's about the same time. Yeah, about the same timeline. So I feel similarly in touch with my own mortality, similarly devastated by every passing year. And yet, enlivened. You know,

we're still here. We're still doing this somehow. Yeah, somehow. Well, we're going to get into some of our predictions for this upcoming regular season. We still have awards picks. We still have finals picks, even though we went, what, six plus hours on every single team. So check those out. If you haven't already, there's probably still some stuff to mine from there for our preseason power ranking spectacular extravaganza. But first, we have to start with a little bit of news on the eve of the NBA season as we typically get. This was the deadline for extensions to be signed, specifically rookie contract extensions. So players going into their fourth year. In total, we have nine signed, but I think even before that, we had some that were pretty much just expected. All the max guys,

the Powell Bencaros, the Jehomgrins. That's a separate category that we got done with during the summer. But now these were like the buzzer beers. These were more interesting guys who could have been, you could have signed them and just let them go through. the season and see what happened. Maybe they would outperform and you'd have to pay them more, or you just locked them up now. So an interesting lot of guys, I would say. I mean, usually

if you're still there by this point, the open and shut cases are long since done. These are the more marginal cases. These are role players in some cases. Guys you want to invest in, but aren't quite there yet. There's always like, this is the area where there's negotiation to do. There's actual movement in terms of

who Shaden Sharp believes he will be and who the Portland Trailblazers think he might be. Yes, and we have to start, as we always should, with the Portland Trailblazers who made two of the bigger splashes before the deadline. Shaden Sharp, as Rob mentioned, was the first one, four years, $90 million. Then to Mani Kamara, our guy, our potential goat. He locked in a four for 82. He was a little bit of a different case. He was the year after, the director year after.

But because he was a second rounder, the Blazers basically got ahead of this. He was going to have a team option for next year, and then he was going to be a restrictive free agent. So they pretty much locked up the core of the young team minus Scoot Henderson. I think this is a good idea to do in advance, specifically for Shaden. We should maybe take them one at a time. Sure. Because Shaden has played particularly well in the preseason. And because of some of the injuries they've had on the roster, Scoot Anderson, first and foremost,

but also because of the way the team is constructed for this year, it really is a showcase opportunity for Shaden to be the go-to scorer on this team. It's also the kind of case where he is the sort of player where if he is the best version of himself, he wildly outperforms this contract. That kind of score is so distinctly valuable that you feel okay, whatever your hesitations may be, taking the gamble. Like Shaden Sharp, I will admit,

a lot of times it's not my kind of player. And yet, if I were running a team, how do you not continue to at least play it out? He's so young. He's still so raw. The hesitation for me, and this is something you think about a lot with guys on extensions, is like are you trying to fix skill and like are they trying to hold just too money come on each to hit more threes more reliably right like that's a skill question the things

with shade and sharp that are holding him back are like disposition questions will he show up today will he play well will he care literally any second that he's playing defense will he move the ball in these ways will he hit the glass it's like there are hard things to teach and yet we have seen enough guys make those like progressive jumps especially young players learning to invest on defense. It's a normal arc for a lot of guys over the course of their careers. With him, it's going to be more like, is he getting to the basket consistently? Is he not stopping short when he's the most explosive athlete, not just on the floor, but in the hemisphere? And can he continue to kind of push the boundaries of his game in that way where he's rewarding this sort of investment? So it was good

in that respect because they could get ahead of what could be a breakthrough year for him. He could be a 20 plus point per game score, not only because he has that in him, but also the team is basically set up where their starting unit, which he presumably will be a factor in, is a lot of defense first wings who provides some on offense to varying degrees. You have a Denny Obdia. He could do a lot of his head first crash course sort of drives were a big part of their offense last year when they made a jump in the second half. But it's also a lot of Tumani Camaras.

It's Donovan Klingan who's really still trying to find himself offensively. Drew Holiday would be the fifth guy who's like more of a bonus guy who's going to play in between in the same way Avdi and Kamara do. So that's the good side of it. Sure. The bad side is perhaps they just took away the motivation from Shaden to just outperform what he might have been offered otherwise or what he was expecting and restricted free agent. And all of a sudden, now he can coast, which is the biggest problem with him.

If he had like the dog in him in the same way that Scoot does, Shaden would be one of the best players in the league. But he tends to be a very sleepy sort of guy and tough to motivate to tap into all those supreme skills. I mean, some dogs are sleepy. That's true. Many dogs are sleepy, in fact. I'm a sleepy dog. People do say that about you. I mean, look, this is again, like a yet another way in which you not only need to be locked in on the specifics of every aspect of a player's skill set, how they fit within your team, how they, you know, the synergy of Tumani and Denny and Shaden and how these guys all fit together.

You need to know the psychology of Shaden Shart. Like, if you are the coach, if you're the general managers, if you're someone in touch with him professionally in that way, like you need to understand that aspect of it. and you hope that's the case. But then look, these things are so dicey because if you don't give him the extension, then sometimes you risk, like, miffing him, and then they get turned off, and they start looking around in restricted for agency.

Then they get pissed when you match the offer. It can just turn into a whole ass mess so quickly that a lot of teams do try to get ahead of this stuff if they feel at all invested in what a player is going to be. And I think with Shaden, not only is he good enough and talented enough to take the plunge, he's also enticing enough that if he became the centerpiece

of a trade for a future star in some way or another because some other team was high on what he could be that would be fine too like that's kind of where I'm with these Blazers moves is they're investing a lot of salary in a team that does not have

apparent superstars on it but sometimes you're going to have to trade these guys at these higher numbers and that's really the only way you're going to get any meaningful move done Yeah kind of like a Jalen Green from last year they signed that contract presumably to trade eventually

they put him as part of the package for Kevin Durant this offseason. But maybe don't trade him like two years too late. That would be nice. I mean, with Shaden, the problem is when you draft him, when you draft a player who bypassed college just because he just didn't want to play and he was just so raw and so young from the jump, you practically bound yourself to giving him an extension because you probably weren't going to figure out who he was in that first contract.

Right. So in my opinion, like this was going to happen as soon as you drafted him just because you had to take a longer view with someone that young. Tumani, the complete opposite situation where he was an older player coming out of college, two separate college students at Georgia and then Dayton. And he's also someone who proved pretty immediately, I think in his rookie year that he could bring it defensively in the last year, no doubt. Played the offense enough to stay on the core and then became one of the best defenders in the league. Second team all defense. Obviously the apple of my eye. I watched him very keenly

last year. I think this is good not only because Tumani proved what an essential part of that core he is and he is with Denny, I think, the two guys that they're kind of foundational building around at this point. I think there's more to tap into offensively. Yeah, he hit threes last year at a consistent rate. We'll see if he can do it again. But like, there's a real feel to his game that I think he will show. And if you got ahead of that, I think then you're getting a bargain deal. Yeah, I think there's also something with these no fuss players and Tumani Kumar is very much a no fuss player. Like roll the ball out. He will dig into guys. He will play part, like a good cooperative role player.

Sometimes you take advantage of those players if you're a team by like, oh, I'm going to make them wait. I'm going to use their cap hold. We're going to open up all this space. Sometimes you just give the no fuss guy the no fuss contract. And this to me was that. Like you just play it very simply, very straightforwardly with a guy who has become a pillar of your organization.

Like he is one of the most reliable things in Portland Trailblazers basketball. Why not reward that? Why not lock that player into a longer-term deal at a fairly reasonable rate, depending on his offensive development? He does need to prove more, not just as a shooter, but in leveraging the kind of feel you're talking about. Like, how are you able to be a better connector if you're not going to be trusted or really threatened opposing defenses from the corners or from the wings? Yeah. There's some, like, fussing over the fact that because he's a different type of player, he wasn't one of these rookie contract free agents, that like maybe they could have taken him into the team. option next year and like why did you have to do this so soon.

I can see that if you're more of a cap nerd. They ultimately paid him, I believe, like only a couple million less than was his max. They gave him 82. He think he was eligible for 87. Ultimately, I think those sorts of things come in the wash. And I think you're right. A player like him who's shown that like as a young player, we want to build around his

disposition or just a skill set. Like you don't really want to chance it at this point. What he represents is the best things about where Portland is. Yeah. So, yeah, I don't really want to rock that particular boat. Yes, unfortunately for the Sun to just give him away and the DeAndre Aten Trade. They certainly did. Other ones that happened today.

Christian Brown, five years, $125 million. Some money. Brown is a player, I think, universally, I think people just love. High Q rating? Absolutely. He's the Rob Mahoney of Hustle players. I'm glad for him. I'm glad that they locked him up.

I'm a little worried about the Denver Nuggets books going forward. Stop me if you've heard this before. I'm a little worried they may have pushed it in terms of an extension. Yes and no. Look, it's a lot of money. And by committing to this, I think they're effectively locking themselves into the first apron. And probably if they do anything significant after this,

it's going to be second apron territory pretty much immediately. That's tough. Their team is also kind of built. Yeah. So, like, yes, historically, this is an ownership group and a team that has had to make, like, had to make,

has chosen to make financial concessions with certain free agents, or just like hard lines on like, we are not going to pay this guy, we're not going to pay that guy, we're going to trust that these younger players can develop. Hasn't always worked out exactly. This is one of those cases where the young guy did develop. And Denver,

historically, again, locks in anybody who clicks there, anybody who works, it worked out pretty well. And, like, there is a sticker shot quality to, Christian Brown at $25 million a year on average. Like that's a lot of money.

I think especially if you've been following the NBA for a long time, like us old-ass guys have. Like there's just something you have to get over with that hump. But then when you think about who's making $25 million in the league right now, here's a list. Devin Vassell, R.J. Barrett, Jaden McDaniels, Josh Giddy, Anthony Simons, Jabari Smith, Jr., also on an extension previously agreed to.

You're telling me Christian Brown isn't in the ranks of those guys? I think there is a little bit of a sticker shop happening. where it's like not only that, but some of the annual values of the extensions we're literally seeing today and yesterday are circling this 25 a year, like Dyson Daniels who we could talk about next, like 25 million.

We just talked about Shaden and Kamara, 22 and a half, 20 and a half, Kigin Murray, 28. Like, it's all in that same range. It probably is just going to take us a little bit to get used to it. That's like just starter level money. Yeah.

Or like you're betting that they could be slightly better than your average starter. Yeah. Christian Brown's better than your average starter. And like, yes, he is a role player by any definition. Sometimes the role player's part of your core. Like sometimes he is essential to what you do.

You take Christopher Brown off of the Nuggets. I think they would be very hard pressed to replace him. Yeah, the problem with the Nuggets is more historically. It's like the stuff of the past. The fact that they just instantly give guys max extensions, including Jamal Murray, more recently, what was it last soft season. And it feels better when Murray in particular shows up this preseason.

He's looked pretty sharp. He looked really good. He looked locked in. He looks fit. I think he has a new hairstyle. which is always kind of cool. But then it feels better to maybe put yourself up against some of the apron stuff. Because you know that your top guys are coming in.

It's much more treacherous when Murray is like coming in and out. He's like going to UFC, Fides and showing up the next day. I feel a little bit better about the Brown contract in that regard. But I will say like the front office keeps changing in Denver. They keep just giving guys as much as they want. It's a little disappointed. Keep changing. Keep staying the same.

I think where I come down on it is if you're, going to draw the line somewhere. Why are you drawing the line with a guy who plays hard as hell, who is a really good defender who was one of the most improved players in the league last season, expanded basically every single area of his game when you're already a veteran team.

And yes, you're waiting on Payton Watson, who we should say did not get an extension, Julian Strother, Julian Pickett, like all these guys, like you're waiting on them to continue to take steps forward. Christian Brown just did it. Like, he did it. He was a part of the championship core of the team already. He's

only getting better and better. And to me, he is indispensable to the way the Nuggets play. Yeah. They built their entire, like, future around these draft picks. It's good that one of them hit. At least one. That's all you need. Honestly, like, they're in really good shape with only one of them really hitting.

Didn't save their GM's job. But, you know, at least Christian Brown is still soldiering on. We mentioned Dyson Daniels four for a hundred. I believe this is the Josh Gitty deal, which in that comparison, it looks pretty good. This is incredibly reasonable. Yeah. I am a little shocked that it didn't take more than this

to get the deal done for the Hawks. Well, I mean, I think it's just the offense. We know Dyson, I mean, reigning most improved player. Yeah. Defensive champion, just like a guy who could have easily won defensive player the year last year.

Easily. Just breaking steals records, all that. That's there. I think you wonder, what does he have offensively? Can he even get to the heights of last year where he shot the ball reasonably well? But a lot of it was just Quinn Steiner

basically putting his foot down and being like, no, we're going to keep you in even if you miss. Yeah. I think the shot is one part of it and then there is what is he doing attacking closeouts getting into the lane it's like the part of him that gets a little timid in those situations that scares me

I thought we saw less of that last year and like that's why I feel encouraged is not just all universe defense it's like this is a guy who is changing the way he attacks the basket he's changing the way he gets into the pain of what he does with it where he now all of a sudden is like playing in the flow in the way that so many of these hawks do

and like I'm unreasonably high on Atlanta overall but I'm unreasonably high in part because the players like Dyson Daniels. So 25 million for arguably the best perimeter defender in the league, a guy who actively changes games, not just matchups, but entire games with the way he covers. Yeah, I'll live with whatever he can't do right this second offensively. Seems super reasonable.

Also, every time the Hawks are brought up, I know like the hype train is off the rails at this point. But then I remind myself like, oh, they have the Pelicans pick. They could easily, like, let's say Tray Young performs okay. they could replace him. Why are we trading Trey Young? Well, I mean, just or anyone, or they could just slide in

Darren Peterson into the like the Ocongwu minutes. And all of a sudden, like they have like the even better four or five something than they have right now. I mean, they have tons of options, both with the players they have

with these picks at their disposal. Like I think they have one of the more enviable positions in the league. Like it's not a clear path in terms of what they need to do. But you want to just leave all these doors open for yourself. And the way you do that,

is with players who can kind of do a little bit of everything, the injuries are what kind of spook me a little bit. Unless you're the Pelicans, who literally had Dyson Daniels and their own draft pick. Yep, had all the things. They were saying those are the foundation of this promising Atlanta Hawks future. Any of these other ones that came in over the past, what, 48 hours? We got A.J. Green, Nicola Yovich, Kegan Murray.

Any of those intrigue you? Would you rather have Nikola Yovic at his number? Four years, $62 million, or A.J. Green, at his number, four years, $45 million. The problem is I know what AJ Green is right now. We do. I don't know what Nikola Jovich is. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

It depends on the rest of your team. To keep answering questions with the question, but like, AJ Green could be a starter playing off of stars. Nikola Jovich, is it as easy, especially if stars tend to be your creators? I don't know. The Yovic contract, I will say just briefly, like, that's a steal. It's $16 million, which is nothing. Is it a steal?

If you plan on having him as a rotation player and you believe in that, yes. Do I personally believe he's a lock, solid rotation guy on a title team? I don't know, but I'm also not saying no. I'm not saying no. And I think, like, look, for a team that is searching for something to believe in, why not pay him this money? Like, from that perspective, very reasonable. I think I just get locked in with Yovich where it's like, what is the positive outcome for him? Not like the best case, but like what is a really good outcome?

is it better Santi Aldama? Like that's what you're aspiring to. I don't throw it with a good time. I like Sonti Aldama a lot. But there's also like kind of like a very subtle but meaningful difference between let's say how defenses respect a Santi Aldama 3 versus the way they just kind of like leave Yovic hanging in the corner and don't really care. I think I just have too much blind faith in the heat infrastructure.

And as we found over the course of like doing these pods like you're not as sold. you're not just willing to write this off as like they'll figure this out where I'm like with Yovic a guy who has talent I believe in them more than most organizations to tap into that I believe in Yovic to be a decent enough NBA player for a long

time he's just in that zone where it's like he's a little difficult to peg on what kinds of players you want to put him with what kinds of holes you want him to fill like you can kind of shoot but only kind of he can kind to make plays but only kind of he can kind to defend but only kind of it's like at a certain point

the defined strengths of someone like AJ Green while also limiting free you up to think about the other stuff. It's like I just don't know what to do with Yoavich. So that's where from a developmental standpoint, I don't even know what direction I would like channel him in. Right.

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Restrictions apply, including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements, and max-wager amount. See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. Gambling problem. Call 1-800. or visit rg dash help.com. Call 188-78-78-9-77-7-77 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut. So these guys were not given extensions before the deadline as we're recording this. Jaden Ivy, Benedict Mathurin, Jeremy Sohan, Uzman Jang, played really well in the preseason.

Oh, he skipped Johnny Davis, though. Did I? The newest member of the Wisconsin herd, I believe, Johnny Davis. God, is he in the G-League? Yeah, I believe he's a... He's technically, you know, in the Milwaukee orbit, but not in Milwaukee. It's bad when you can't even get like a roster spot on the bucks who are just clinging to whatever live body they can have. Jalen Duren, Oshai Baji, Mark Williams, Tar Heason, Dalyme, Malachi Braenum, Walker Kessler, Peyton Watson, as you mentioned with the Nuggets.

Yeah. Which are these guys stand out to you? I mean, there's, I think some that are surprising. Like, the Detroit stuff doesn't shock me that much with Ivy and Duren. Why have he got hurt again? Have he got hurt again? And he's also the kind of player where it's like the best version of Jaylen,

or yeah, of Jaden Ivy is immensely valuable. And also like kind of proven, but not entirely proven. And so you could understand from his perspective why he might want to wait and see or really what he might be asking for is more than the pistons,

given his injuries or are willing to commit. Sure. And Duren, it's like, he's a trickier case because it's like there's really not a ton of benefit on waiting. unless you're just that far apart on the number. And I guess that must be the case.

Because, like, I don't know, there's just not a lot of upside for the Pistons to just wait out this process. They'll have a little bit more flexibility. They could technically do a little bit more with their cap sheet if they really wanted to. But I assume both those guys are both part of their future. And it's just a matter of figuring out what makes sense for everybody. Or how about this? Play hard on defense for an entire season. For who?

Jalen Duren. Because he had a strong second half where he seems like he turned it on. And a lot of that was just being there. and like busting his ass defensively for half of a season and just not slowing down. Whereas I would like to see that over the course of the full, especially for a guy who's so streamlined as him where he's going to go up and get it.

He's going to be a virtual spacer for Cade. Really good rebounder, really good offensive rebounder. But he is a pretty like traditional center in these modern times, right? That means he's going to have to be kind of the emotional centerpiece for what you're doing because he's going to have to play and get a lot of his offense up in the air. And that's a lot of effort. And so I can see them basically being like,

maybe you have to go and get your next contract, much like you got that offensive rebroad. But the other part of this that we should talk about is restricted free agency, if you're an organization, worked pretty well for you this off season. Because a lot of those contracts, giddy, we saw Kaminga,

stretched so far because there weren't any offers coming. And I'm actually surprised, this is a long list of players, most of whom are like solid, but the two pistons in particular are guys that, like, would be attractive to other teams. Absolutely. If you're looking at what happened this past summer, you're saying, like, actually, I'm going to use restrictive free agent, and that might drive down the price of these guys.

Yeah, I think it's a pretty realistic option, especially when you consider someone like Jalen Duren who, again, I can see him wanting to chase the offer sheet. And I'm just not entirely sure it's going to be there, not because he's a bad player, but people are warded off by the process. Like, it's, it sucks to court restricted free agents and to get stuck in it. You know, Myers your cab space for a minute. It's just like thorny in a way that with all of the complications that are happening in free agency, most teams just like do not want to deal with. The one that did surprise me a little bit was Tari Isson. I just thought something was going to get done there.

And especially with Kevin Durant's number on his extension coming a little bit below expectation, I was like, oh, well, this must be an opening for something to happen with Tari Isan as well. This must be a means to keep this roster that already has so many guys financially together. But no deal. No deal for Tara Easton. Admittedly a very injured player to this point, but also a completely complete. completely scintillating player at this point. Yeah, and as we're recording this,

we haven't got any reporting coming in about why certain contracts, like where they were on both sides, like why they couldn't come to terms. So maybe that will come out. But it kind of just underlined the fact that Houston is at a point, kind of at a crossroads

with some of the young intriguing guys where they need to make decisions on guys. And at the very least, I could see if you're Houston wanting Easton to be more in the rotation player that we don't have to count on sort of range of money rather than like one of our foundational players,

like because amen is that and then you have all these other guys coming in behind him that they're going to have to ultimately pay. Let's see if Reed pops this year. We're going to pay him. Yep. So Rubber is meeting the road. And I will give Houston credit in this regard. It seems like they've been willing even before the summer to negotiate hard with some of these players. And it's better for them to the point where they've gotten a little like incentives on some of these deals to go stack some of these contracts together. The KD one in particular. Maybe they just see like we're as an organization going to draw a hard line if you don't meet a. us, then we're going to make this difficult. It is true. It's like on a case-by-case basis, say Christian Brown, for example, it's like the difference between a 25 million annual deal and a 22 million annual deal for one player, not a huge deal. But when it's happening with every contract where you're paying everybody a little extra on top or a little more than you had to, then all of a sudden you get yourself into some pretty challenging corners with the aprons and everything.

So it's like compounding Jabari and Kevin Durant and potentially, you know, pressuring Tari Ysen a little bit and all these other extensions and other deals that are coming down the line for Houston, it does have to stop somewhere. And it does make sense, cruel as it may be, that you would draw the line on some of these guys who just have not been able to stay on the floor yet. And so that's why, between Ivy, between Tari Ysen, like, you can understand, like, the guys who did not get deals are either the guys who have been kind of chronically or consistently injured or the guys who have just been very difficult for their coaches to trust in. Like Benedict Mathuron is another great example of just this is a huge prove-it year for Ben Matherin,

but you don't jump the gun by giving him the big check ahead of time. Like, you need to see what him with his head screwed on right, with the right incentives, actually does for the team in a much bigger role. Right. And even if he does pop this year, like, how does he then fit into a world where Tyrese Hallburn comes in? Like, don't you want to downshift right to the lineup minus Turner, that almost wanted you the title?

Yes. Mark Williams, you should also say also along the very, very injured lines. hard to hand that guy like a big old check. It's just like it's just or trade for him. Apparently. To join Nick Richards in the Charlotte Center rotation that for whatever reason Houston imported.

Well, it's been born again. Phoenix imported. Yeah, I know. I just, I'm at a loss for words. But these are like these are good players. Like the best version of Mark Williams is really good. But you just have to prove that you can stay on the floor before you get the big money. Like this is not a new problem.

This is not a phenomenon. Like Steph Curry had to prove that he could keep his angles healthy before he got really and truly paid. So none of these guys are quite stiff, but we're seeing guys have to make concessions or in this case just not get their deals yet until they can prove it. Yeah. Another thing here is also cap holds in terms of like where you were drafted. If you're Detroit and if you have any aspirations for using cap space, it's tougher to go into the summer with someone like Ivy, whose cap hole, I believe, is in the 30 millions, versus someone like Ysen, who's more manageable at 17 because he was drafted lower. And so it's actually a little bit

easier for someone like Ysen to be like, you wait because this doesn't hurt us in other areas as much of what else. Absolutely. Any other Brookie extension nuggets and news you want to tap into? I think we hit the most important stuff. I mean,

this is a weird draft class in that clearly all the top guys got locked in. And then once you get past the top four or so, it's just a real crap shoot in terms of guys who have just not panned out, who have been inconsistent in all the ways we've described. Really, some of the biggest hits have been later first round in undrafted guys.

like AJ Green coming in, Jalen Williams, both versions, but in this case, Jalen Williams, the big, locked into a deal earlier this summer. It's like a lot of those guys who came on later actually have done better for themselves. So it's, I don't know what that says about the reaches of the late lottery, but they have not quite panned out. Or you're Keegan Murray, who just never comes on,

despite all the optimism for you. Sometimes you get paid no matter what. Yeah. Sometimes you just win. So he is making more than Jabari Smith, Shaden Sharp, to Monique Marr, everyone we've talked about on an annual basis. minus the max guys who are in a different category.

I mean, I think Keegan Murray has proven more than Shaden Sharp probably. Yes. But going from this point forward, who would you rather have? I don't know. Independent of the money. Yeah, right? I don't know who Keegan Murray is. Like, I have watched a lot of Keegan Murray basketball.

I have no idea who he is. If you put Chris Murray in his place tomorrow, would you notice a difference? I do think, unfortunately, I would notice a difference. But I see you trying to blazer it up again. All right. Let's flip now to kind of a mulligan. on our power ranking section. So did we need those?

TBD, we should talk through it because we recorded those a little bit in advance. I'm actually curious what people think about that. Did they like that? We had those all structured and nicely produced on video or by the third one or you're like, oh, this is, you guys did this earlier, you know? Personally, I enjoyed it. I loved it. And I happened to know people loved our deep and introspective questions into the souls of

you and was in particular. I think that was a huge hit. We should maybe reprise that at some point. I think every podcast. Yeah. But, you know, things happen over the course of preseason. Yeah. You know, not only results, but also contracts were signed and also injuries occurred.

A lot of injuries, I feel like, occurred over this preseason. Just like even like the two weeks or the two to four weeks getting a lot of those before we hit opening night in earnest. How was your preseason just viewing diet? Did you get any Malavé Leone's tape in there? Not enough, unfortunately. A little sporadic. I try to pick my spots. It's a long season.

We're about to embark on the marathon. I've also been literally fighting pneumonia. So there's only so much I can take. But then you just get like Keishan and George highlights trickling in. I'm like, yes, absolutely. Give me everything you got. Well, what's funny is I ran into our mutual friend who works for the Oklahoma City Thunder.

And we bumped to each other out of the game. And he was like, Rob accosted me in the bathroom because he just wanted me to talk about Malavit. he shook me and he's like, tell me what's going on with this guy. The problem is you could be describing like five different funder employees, but I think I know the one you're talking about.

But he made the roster, I think. Did he actually make it? I'm going to double check that as we're... Let's do some real-time fact check. I'm admittedly behind on the Malifali-Li-Li-Ones beat, so we got to get to the bottom of it. There's real Brooks Barnheiser enthusiasm.

Unfortunately, he was cut two days ago. Come on! But I mean, that's just... Come on! Well, look, it's really... to keep him in the family. He's on the exhibit 10 so we can go to the blue.

It's all part of the plan. Is he quietly getting into like Tumani-Kamara age territory? Yes. But look, when he hits, he's really going to hit. Well, I would say the one team that I'm starting to reconsider

since we've done the power rankings. It might be Houston a little bit. We caught the Fred Van Vleet injury in real time, but then we got the KD extension and also some experimentation with that point guard spot before they,

even considered doing something more dramatic in the trade market. We got the tall ball lineup. Yeah. So what you're saying is you want to move them up now to number one. Well, I saw a lot of graphics not only just showing all their listed heights. We're talking a men, Katie, Katie back at the two, which, you know. PJ Carlisimo is smiling somewhere. Shunning down on us.

Jabari Smith, Shangoon, and then Stephen Adams. Not only did we get the listed heights of those guys, but also in comparison to the one the Denver Nuggets used where it was. It was like bowl bowl and Yokic and in the bubble. And so that's one thing. And then we saw Reed Shepard kind of unleashed. It was in the preseason finale. But like, God damn, when they let that guy cook,

he can fucking just cook something up. This is the thing. Like, you just got to get him a little bit of runaway. I'm not saying Reed Shepard is a perfect basketball player. But he does a lot of the things that all of a sudden they really, really neat. The spacing, even just some like the basic ball handling, like get the ball up, get us into basic stuff. I think Reed Shepard can probably handle that. Yeah.

I think what is in the best interest for the Rockets, maybe not necessarily Kevin Durant, is that they experiment a little bit more than they were expecting. I think they were probably going to do a good degree of it because they had such depth that they could pace out Fred when he was healthy or Kevin Durant. Those guys can only be counted on for 60 games or so, as most players of their age typically are.

And then you could try some things in the midst of that. Now they might just have to lean a little bit more heavily in a certain direction. and I think it would be in their best interest long term to force a doka to have to play Reed Shepard. Not only perhaps start. Well, I mean, he would just have to sacrifice some of his precious defensive culture and just let him be reed.

How do we force him? Like, what do we need a black? Like, what do we do? Just look at him sternly. Like, you have to play. No, I mean, I think it would be in their best interest. Like, for sure. To look at the bigger canvas rather than the result in front of, which is the difference typically between a front office and a coach. Yeah. Convincing coach to not rely on veterans and instead

lean on the young but flawed player a historically doomed enterprise. Like it's just a really hard thing to pull off. 100%, but he also got an extension. He also got an extension partly as a result of the Knicks trying to hire every single coach in the NBA, but also deservedly so.

And he's clearly on the books for a long term, so maybe he has more reason to think long. Yes. So I just think it would be for them not to be as good this regular season. but play, read more, play through some of his mistakes, allow him the rope to do so. Because trading him, you're never going to get full value

of what he could potentially be. And so why not just explore a little bit more? The weird thing about the Rockets is in their way. They are a very experimental team. Every waking minute with Amman Thompson on the court is an experiment. Right. Like we are crossing into new territory with everything they do. The double big lineup.

Like just the size and the way that they orient that length and size on the court. a lot of it's like very inventive. It's not the most inventive offense in the world, like structurally speaking. And I think that's probably one of EMA's, like the things you can hold against him, did a really good job coaching that team last year. But there's a lot to figure out

in terms of just like how the basic functioning of the offense works. And that's where playing Reed Shepard should not feel like an experiment. It should feel like something that's like pretty foundational to playing normal basketball. I think in a way they kind of need to be

a little more normal. Like with Fred, that would have kind of resolved itself, but Van Bleets hurt. So, like, you're going to need to find alternatives to prevent Kevin Durant from having to handle the ball so much, to prevent Alper and Shangoon from being, like, the only hub creator on the floor. Like, you're going to need other ways to just get into stuff.

One of the ways is having guards who can handle the ball, reach up and kind of do that. Also, just having shooters who teams really, really respect. And we're going to see with this jumbo lineup, like, how much Katie at the two, Jabari at the three is, like, enough spacing to carry an entire five-man group at once. Maybe. I'm kind of thrilled about it regardless, but there's just like so many little things that the Rockets can do to

maybe become a little bit more of a normal team sometimes. I mean, even amend as your true de facto point card is experimentation, because it's not the role he was in last year. What role was he in last year? Who the fuck knows? Whatever role he wants to be. I love it. But now, like, forcing more offense to him could explore

what he could do offensively in a way that could, honestly, he might be in line for most improved player, just because of the opportunities he's going to get as a result of this. But you're right. There's still a lot of exploration on this team. Javari Smith, I think, showed some versatility, especially guarding into more the wing sort of category in the playoffs. But, like, who knows with him? Typically, he's taking one step forward, two steps back.

Shengun might take another step. If we look at Europe basket, he's like a fucking maniac. A god. Yeah. A golden god. Like, he keeps developing. And we lose track of the fact because he's so much more established, I think, than some of the younger guys he was brought up with.

Like, he's still super young. He was just extended last year around the same time. But I don't know. What is the Mulligan here? I'm hearing that the rockets are still really good. I'm hearing that they have experimental ways to continue to get better. And there's so much young talent. Even just the combination of Jabari Smith Jr.

on a Kevin Durant team, or I guess vice versa in this case, that combination is really exciting to me. Not just the way they play together, but Kevin Durant, someone who has a lot to teach Jabari about how to use his length. How to, like, the version of Kevin Durant, We saw play Golden State in the playoffs as a member of the Thunder, for example, and the switching and the mobility and the way he was able to smother people. You can see Jabari starting to have like the flicker of some of that stuff.

And all of a sudden, you're not going to turn Jabari Smith Jr. into Kevin Durant offensively. But in terms of all the supplementary stuff that Katie quietly does and has done at a super elite level, that stuff he can pass along, that stuff that he could help Jabari be the best version of that player that he can be. I'm very big on Jabari. I also think he's like kind of going to be a connector to whatever version of the team it wants to be, depending on who's her, who's available. Because here he is starting at de facto three, but he can also be their stretch four. If he's hitting shots with consistency for some of your smaller in air quotes lineups where he's the four and shangoon's at the five.

Shengoon, God damn, he keeps doing stuff. But you're right. I think we had them at three. I just don't know who we would put over them, who would vault over them because I believe we had the Knicks at four and then the Cavs at five. I think the team that's getting a lot of momentum as we go through the preseason are the Golden State Warriors. They're really good.

Are they? Yeah. In the regular season? I mean, I think they're built, if healthy, to be really good in the playoffs too. Yeah. I'm just a little more worried about regular season wins. Well, yeah.

And it's probably in terms of feedback. That was the one most passionately thrust upon us based on the power rankings was just, you know, you guys didn't factor in Kaminga's new contract or the new guys they signed. Yeah. Just newsflash we did. We literally talked about all that stuff about to happen.

And then it happened pretty much as we expected. As everyone did. I think the other part of this is that some of the statistical models chimed in, and they had them very high. The one at ESPN had them as the number two team in the Western Conference right behind the Oklahoma City Thunder. And now there's some noise in that because they're taking what happened last season when Jimmy was there and extrapolating over the course of the full.

season. Obviously, injuries will set in. I don't think they'll have as much momentum in order to, or they won't be playing for anything in the same way that they had to stack wins in order to make the play in in the first place. But this is going to be a good team. I'm more excited for them as a playoff team than a regular season team. That's exactly what I said on our power rankings. I mean, I still love watching them in the regular season. I still think as much as those guys can be healthy and available, they will be good. Like, the part of them that made them a juggernaut after the Butler trade, which you're right, they leaned into it super hard

because they had to win. But those foundational things are still there, and they're just kind of accented by Al Horford and Anthony Melton, the guys that they brought in, like, they're going to be really good. I just don't really see a way around that. I don't see them as world beaters. I don't see them as necessarily

the most realistic threat to teams like the Thunder and the Nuggets and even the Rockets. Like, they're a clear rung or two below for me, and that's okay. Very much in the mix. I would say in terms of being swayed from the preseason,

If anything, the injuries has started to rock me a little bit, including with, like, Jalen Suggs, who still, unfortunately, isn't on the core. He's still pacing his way back. I think he's in limited contact as the time we're recording this. Yeah. Even Deeran Fox is scrimaging, so he's a little bit farther ahead, but he still hasn't played.

And that's concerning, especially as Dylan Harper looks even better at any minute he gets next to Wembe. And then Wembe himself just grows a couple inches and a couple more pounds every day, seemingly. The Dylan Harper stuff, I mean, I don't know what I expected. I probably should have expected this. But watching him with the ball is really captivating.

We talked on the preseason pods about how all this is going to fit, right, with Fox and Castle and Harper. Now, like, how do you balance the ball handling responsibilities between those guys? I'm hoping there's like a democratic way where it just kind of settles out, where all of a sudden they just kind of find their spots. And some that's going to depend on some of those guys being better perimeter shooters for sure. but you cannot keep the ball out of Dylan Harbour's hands. Like whatever role he plays, whoever he is playing with,

he needs to have opportunities to just flex because he's really got something special. It's a real harsh truism about life, especially in a competitive environment where it's like when you're not there, like the world kind of keeps going. Right? And it seems like that might be the case with what's happening with Fox. Yeah.

Which is so disappointing because like when they trade for him just seemed like such a joyous occasion. It seemed like finally he would be applied in a winning setting next to this world beating talent and Wendy. And now it just, if he doesn't come in soon, I do wonder if Harper starts to get momentum under him. I'm not ready to bail that fast. I just don't know how you,

maybe this first year will be easy to manage the both of them because Harper is still learning. Yeah. But if Harper shows anything this year, I think your two of this will be messy. It could get a little dice here. And look, a lot of it's going to depend on those guys and how much starting matters to them

or being a point, quote unquote, point guard matters to them. If they're willing to play together in combinations and work off of each other, those three guys, I think there's still a lot you can do. You have a lot of runaway here. And really, I think the Spurs benefit from the fact that they are going to be good and that's going to make a lot of people pretty happy around there,

but they aren't weighed down by the fact that they need to be great yet. Like, they just need to be competitive enough and God knows they're going to be. I think it's going to put a lot of stress on the guys who don't have the shooting in order to play more off the ball in that regard. Fox will see, but I think Castle's probably the one who's probably feeling the pressure a little bit. I mean, maybe not this year,

but I would think if they do make another trade, which somehow they're still able to do. Like, he might be the guy to get it done just because, like, he isn't shooting that well. He didn't shoot that well as a rookie. We'll see if he can bounce back this year. But, like, he doesn't have the ball in his hands. Like, where does he fit?

Especially when Wembe looks like he can play point card if he wanted to. I would believe anything at this point. I think what makes it hard for me in terms of seeing the big picture is in their own ways, I really believe in Dearen Fox, and Stefan Castle, and Don't Harper. They all individually make sense to me. And I think there is, there's a universe in which Castle, by the nature of being the least defined of those three players, does end up in like a weird auxiliary utility off the bench or whatever kind of role. And it could still really suit him.

Like he's just, he has the kind of mentality that I'm not. really worried about him finding a place. I just don't know what the place is yet. Yep. Any of these other sort of injuries that have piled up or any sort of just like news and notes that have happened? I mean, the Grizzlies lose a point card every day seemingly, unfortunately. We got to save Scotty Pippen Jr. somehow.

We got like wrapping him in bubble, all these guys. The Grizzlies actively terrify me with who is even available to play on a game-to-game basis. Thank goodness, Jaron Jackson is back. Hopefully John Morant is back. I don't know what to make. But maybe that's a mulligan for us. Like we had the Grizzlies ranked pretty favorably

because they do usually just win a ton of games as long as Job Ranch is even reasonably available. Maybe this is a year that doesn't turn out to be the case. Maybe this team is just too weird and too lopsided and doesn't quite work. I would believe that outcome if you told me that's what happens at the end of the season today. Yeah, Jaron Jackson, the very least showed up

in the preseason finale. So that's like some good news and probably the more meaningful news. Also like Jacques Landel like playing a couple games center. Totally fine. Shout out. He just plugged the hole for DeAndre Aten in a playoff game. It was better than Aiton.

So not very low bar, but at the very least, that's like a guy you can funnel minutes too. Russell Westbrook signing with the Kings. Sure did. I'm still. I guess I can't even say I'm perplexed. It just seems like what the Kings do now. They just sign players they're familiar with. I'm just really upset about the state of that team.

Also, the 18th season for Russell Westbro, as I know, because that's his jersey numbers. Yes. We're all sympathetic on that way. You know what, I didn't even think about that. I do remember being in the Russell Westbrook versus Eric Maynard trenches of, like, who should play point guard for the thunder? So there's like a formative alignment between the way Russ has lived his life and the way that we have lived ours. What side were you on there?

Russ. You sure? Yes. Look, you can dig up blog posts way back in the day. There was a lot of really fishy on-off stuff where Eric Maynor was playing a lot with Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook was playing a lot with, bless him, Jeff Green, that was kind of cooking the books. And I think people overreact, to say the least. God, Durant is now teaming up with Stephen Adams and Jeff Crean in Houston.

Yep. Like, that OKC team was like the nexus of the universe for like the next decade of NBA basketball. And now there's a new Thunder team that's the nexus of the universe for who knows how long. That's true. Cooper flag playing point card, sure. Why not? Literally who else is going to do it. Yeah.

And then Joel and B. played in a preseason game. He sure did. He looked. like an NBA player playing basketball. So that's a start. Yeah, I'm just like constantly on Joel movement watch. Like, how is he shuffling?

How was he jumping? What would you say he was, how would you say he's moving? About as well as I've been lately, which is mildly concerning. But I hope for better for him. I hope he's back in MVP form. The best version of Joel is obviously incredible. It's just like guys like him once they get to this stage. And we've seen this with Kauai too, for example.

It's like part of their appeal is that they were such. two-way forces. And then when they get injured, they're forced to pick and choose, whether of conditioning or otherwise, or just trying to preserve their bodies of, like, when to exert themselves defensively. And if Joelle is a guy who's just kind of like hanging out defensively, that's a very different player. And I'm not saying he would be wrong to make those decisions or to pick his spots. It just might be the reality of who he is at this point. But I hope he can get back to two-way Joelle and Bede again. I hope that's a real thing that could exist in the world. Is the current version a top 100 player?

he was not in our first top 100 for like just straight up like he was redlined out yeah because we were not ranking anybody who was too injured to as we assumed start the season yes joel hadn't played in what almost not like eight months we had the radical idea that you should

have to play in the NBA to be ranked in the top 100 yes this year especially with the injuries to some of the top stars we drew a hard line and said guys like tyrese halliburn jason tatum who were expected as we were voting to not be available for this regular season. We'll see about Tatum. We won't rank them until they actually play basketball.

And that's why Joel wasn't there. Fortunately, he took a shot at us. I think... So what was the shot? I didn't even see this. I think he was talking about something else and he's like, your colleagues don't think I'm a top 100 player. Which I guess is technically true.

We don't think you are. But that's specifically because you weren't playing. Yeah. If we knew that you were going to play... The second he steps on the court, he's a top 100 player again. And I'll also say this. Like, just because you played in a preseason... season game doesn't mean you're going to show up on opening night too because we've seen that

trick before too interesting so when joel plays we will rank you but for now he's not a top 100 yeah i mean look injured players are the worst part of the top 100 because if they have already played and then they get hurt they just start drifting down the rankings slowly yeah because other guys move up other things happen like it's you become to start to think of them in a different way and that like the alternative is they just like if joel and b was at 12 and got locked in at 12 and didn't move the entire time he got hurt, he's almost like protected in the rankings because he's not playing.

Like there's no good answers. Yeah. And so we did a thing that I think is pretty reasonable. Yes. It's a very difficult thing to manage. Robin in particular finds himself flummox a lot over it. Genuinely. It is tough though.

Like, because you don't want to do a service to a player like Joelle. No. Who won a goddamn MVP in this league. But if he's not playing or playing well, like you got to go down. Yes. And then you end up with situations like

Joel and Christian Brown are ranked right next to. each other. And so to avoid that, we did not rank. That's right. Well, since we're talking about MVP's, we should do some award picking. Yeah. I did mine on the site, and so you can check those out at the ringer.com. We did a whole

staff group post. Rob was, unfortunately, on his death band. Yeah, it wasn't going great. So we'll go through them. I'll say this about just awards picks in general. I tend to not have many passionate opinions, because these are projections about largely good

players who might be slightly better than other very good players. But having said that, for MVP, I have Luca Donchich. I also do. Oh, okay. And we talked about this some on the preseason power rankings pod, but I think it's going to be a combination of look. He looks incredible.

He's in very good shape. Clearly, he's highly motivated. I think the Laker narrative machine is going to be so potent that it's going to be hard for other, even other, like, I think Yokic will have an MVP season. I think Shay and Yannis will have MVP. seasons. We have no reason to expect otherwise. I just think the Lucas that's going to be so loud. It finally breaks through. Yes. I think largely narrative plays a factor in this, if not the biggest

factor. And if you're looking at the story of Luca, not only is it the revenge season, not only did he get in shape and broadcast that to anyone who was paying attention on the internet over the past three months. He also is setting this up, so LeBron's not going to be around. So he's going to be the primary source for driving results. Wait, he's setting that out? Maybe not he setting that up. You think he gave LeBron sciatica? Maybe. Maybe a little Nancy Kerrigan.

Oh, my God. I hadn't even considered it, but something nefarious could be in play. LeBron is not there to muddle the narrative that it's anyone other than Luca who was driving the results. But I should say, like, I do wonder how high the results can be for a Lakers team that's going to have a lot of competition in the West. Yeah. I would assume, like, if OKC and Denver and Houston, some of the other teams we're talking about, if they're all at the top of the West, then it becomes a little harder for Luca, but let's say the Lakers get into, I want to say top three, top five in the NBA, perhaps. Then it becomes in play.

Because I was thinking to myself like, oh, man, maybe if he gets like a 34 point triple double, he could be in the mix there. And then I looked at the numbers and literally did that two years ago. The numbers are going to be stupid. They're always stupid. The variables to me are, yes, like the Lakers obviously need to hit a certain threshold to even really for him to qualify. To say nothing of the fact that he needs to say healthy enough to literally qualify. qualify. But if, depending on how the Thunder season turns out, that's the kind of one I'm watching. Yokic, I like, look, I was a Yokic voter last season. I thought he was the best player

in basketball. I think there's a very good chance he will be again, basically until proven otherwise. The Shea stuff, though, is very compelling. I think there's a non-zero chance that the Thunder have an even better record next season, right? Like, that they push even harder, that they are even better. And if the Thunder are a 70-win team, it's going to be very hard-pressed to not have the MVP on that team, with Shay being as good as he historically has been. You would think with Denver building out their bench, with the Thunder having

benches upon benches, that they would paste those guys out a little bit more. We'll see. But you're right. Like, I think historic results will trump most of Lucas cases. Yeah. And the Thunder could win 70 plus games this year, easily. Or the Nuggets could set a franchise record in wins just because

they finally have guys to spell their stars could lead to more regular season wins. So I think it's going to be a difficult path. for Luca. But, you know, the way things are shaping out, they finally also have, like, defensive components that they can usher in while LeBron's away that might just lead to more regular

season wins. Theoretically. I just think, like, they won't be a better team when LeBron is out, but they could be better suited to trudge through the regular season. Yes, is what I would say. Could be. All right, so we both have Luka MVP. Most improve. What do you got? I think Modus Buzellis might win.

Oh, my God. I think he might win. Not only do I think he might be good enough to win. But like, I just think he might really surprise some people. Yeah. Again, if you've been locked in in Buzella's world, I don't think he's going to surprise you. Like, he's a funky

mover, an interesting driver, a good connector. Like, he had all of these elements to his game. I just kind of think it's going to pop. I don't think the Bulls are going to be all that. Anything other than what they've been, which is just kind of like around in the mix, in the worst possible way. But I think

Buzellas is going to be the best part of it. And I think he will actively surprised a lot of people. I don't know what I was expecting, but I was not expecting. What's wrong with Modis Buzealous? Well, I love Bezellis. I think he is in line to play very well. He came on really strong last year. I think it's odd that people were excited about his second half,

but Josh Gittes, he's the second half. Apparently didn't happen and discredited immediately. It happened. I just don't know what it meant. Actually, I do know what it meant. Irrelevant basketball, for the most part. But Bezellis. Well, yeah.

He's the young upstart within the system that is fundamentally broken. That's bullshit. He is not to blame for the Bulls problems. Okay. I think it would be rare, if not unprecedented, for a second year player to get the award. Yeah. He was also drafted in the lottery.

I think guys get dinged for that just because you're expected to be very good if you're drafted in that position. He wasn't a high lottery pick, so there's that. Typically, this award goes for an already good player who takes a meaningful scoring leap and is like all-star fringe, all-star caliber. we've seen Kevin Love in recent years. Laurie Markinen.

He was more deserved because the leap from the caps of the Utah was pretty pronounced. But also Dyson Daniels. Like you get guys who are not necessarily in that quite all-star or even fringe all-star category, just like going from a situation that doesn't quite work to one that all of a sudden does or isn't playing enough minutes and then all of a sudden is. Or sometimes you're just a young guy who kind of has it together and then all of a sudden very much has it together. Right. Tyrese, I think is the shining example of this, where he was already a very good player.

And then he just scored a little bit more. And it's just like, all right, you're the guy. And for that reason, I picked any odd via. Also, I'm a fucking homer. Yeah, you would. But I also think he has one of the best cases because he came on at the end of last season. I think there's a little bullseying effect there where it's like, oh, second half basketball is this very real. And so it's almost like the public, like the broader public probably didn't catch on to the fact that he was kind of cooking.

Their best player at this point. I wonder, especially at the way, as we mentioned, the Blas, There's offense is set up, he, in addition to Shaden, could be showcased in a large way. And if they're winning more than people expected, if they're in the plane race all of a sudden in two months, it's like Denny's the guy. I would like to propose to you a catch-22. Okay. Denny Avdi, if he's going to win most improved player or any award or just like be nationally recognized, we'll rely on the Portland hipsters like yourself. That's right.

To get out the vote, right? To raise awareness. are those St. Portland hipsters yourself included capable of saying that Dennyovdia wasn't already great? That actually, yeah, his numbers are better, but wasn't he already this guy last season, as you basically just did? Well, the hipster take in and of itself

is that you didn't realize how great he was and now look at how great he is. It sounds like he's not that improved. He's just already good and will continue to be good. Give him his credit, God damn it. I just don't think that's how the award voting works. I actually, I disagree. I think that is exactly how the way the boards are voting works, but it shouldn't.

I think Amend Thompson also has a big case for this this year because if he adds more offensively to one of the best defensive players I've seen in my lifetime maybe, then he's a shoeing. A name I've seen going around that I'm very curious to see if he ends up in this race or not is Andrew Nemhard. Going to have so much more on-ball opportunity potentially this season. I assume we'll play a lot more point than he's used to. will just like the numbers will rise as a result of that in terms of assists in terms of just like having more scoring opportunities

all that stuff will be there. I just wonder if Andrew Nemhardt is a guy who's offense scales that much in that way where you'll just see the year for you and be like, oh my God, Andrew Nemhart. Like his opportunity is shifting. Everything in Indiana is changing without Tyrese Halliburton.

I don't know. I don't know if he's going to be there or not, but I can understand the argument. I can see it. I just want to see it play out. I kind of don't like that expectation of him as well. Like, I think if he just adds a little bit more offensively, if he actually hits shots in the regular season,

as opposed to only being a playoff specific shooter. If you're going to pick one, he picked the right one. Right. That's true. But, like, if he finds a balance between those two players, like that in and of itself is an extremely helpful, awesome player to have, especially when Tyries comes back. I almost don't want the pressure on him to perform at, like, a near all-star rate.

Yeah. I will say, though, it is easier to get shining in the Eastern Conference. Like, all of a sudden, if he has a good, the first three months, he's in all-star consideration because the East is just so depleted with guys in general. It's true. So I could see it. A defensive player of the year. Is it anybody other than

Wembe? No, but I propose that we find a smaller trophy, just like a miniature version of the existing trophy, or just a small trophy with a different player, perhaps like a guard like Gary Paine or someone. And we give that to the second place winner for the next decade because

Wemby's going to keep piling. Just lock it in. Yeah. I thought you were saying to give him a smaller one for the even more comical photo of his giant hands cradling the now minatures trophy. Perhaps we do both. I do think it might turn into that kind of award. Like it may turn into the kind of thing where like Evan Mowbly feels very thankful that he got the one in under the wire, even though he may go down as like one of the best defensive

players of his era, but he's not this. He's not the potentially like world changing sport changing defender that Victor Webb and Yama is. It's a tough break potentially to be alive and playing in the same era that this guy is. So enjoy your mini trophy of Men Thompson. I guess so. It'll be cheaper to ship it to you. Six men.

A stupid fucking award that I hate that they give out. This is such a dumb ass award. Yeah. Why are you against just awarding excellence, in this case, off the bench? Because you're doing it against lesser competition. It goes to someone who scores at a high rate against worse players. Often true. And often because you have some flaw in your game that you can't.

be in the first unit. That you score at a certain level, but not at the highest levels of the list. Yes. In that spirit, every time I look at this award, and I had this same problem like going through my actual bout last season

where this was not like the trendy pick in part because guys like Peyton Pritchard had such good seasons, but it's like, why is it not Nas Reid? Why is Nas Reid, who's a really good player coming off the bench, admittedly flawed, and exactly the way you're alluding to, in ways that may prevent him from being like a full-time

defensive anchor, for example. but he's just really good and really important in all the most important matchups and produces. Why is he not just the six-man every year? Yeah, we should probably just give it to him every year like Wemby. More small trophies is the answer to everything. It's not in Penn in quite the same way as Wembe, but it's like every time I look at six-man credentials at the end of the season

or in this case six-man like candidates and who could even be in play, I just have a hard time talking myself out of Nas Reet. I think for the same reasons that Andre Aguadala tended to be the hipster pick for six-man back in the day. Because he was the best player coming off the bench. Exactly, but he wasn't a high score. And thus didn't get the shine.

It typically went to the Jamal Crawford. It was fucked up then. I think we should rectify it now. We waged those wars together, my friend. We certainly did. We went to battle together. We were in those trenches. Unfortunately, because of precedent.

I went with Anthony Simons, who is going to put up a ton of points. And he's going to have the green light, like not only because he plays from the selfish thing, but he's going to put up probably 10-3s-a-game. Yes. And this is a guy, if you haven't checked him out in Portland,

I don't blame you because they've been playing some pretty poor basketball over the past two to three years. He can fill it up in an instant, like few players I've ever seen. It's very Dean Lillardesque, and that's the easy comp, but it's the right one because they just turn it on

and he cannot miss. And I think he's going to do that a lot in the spotlight of Boston. He's going to be on national TV doing that. I think he's going to be a prime candidate for this. One is not surrounded by a ton of talent, but a system and guys who know how to play, at least enough of them carrying over from the previous Celtics team

that'll put him in pretty good spots. Like you put Simon's out there with Derek White and all of a sudden it's like, oh, he's just getting these easy feed connective passes that are going to lead to some of those shots for a guy who has it points in his group been just one of the best shooters in the league. And on top of that, has like a lot he can do on ball.

Like it's not just a catch-and-shoe guy really can play the pick and roll, can create for himself. Like he is the prototype of a sixth man. So I get the vote. But also why is it not Nasreid? can't play a lick of defense. He's actually the anti-Nazri or anti-Anguadala. But also, like, how do we know these guys will stay six men over the course of the season?

Because a lot of the best candidates tend to get put in the starting lineup because of injuries. Because they're the natural candidate to be in the starting lineup. That is why it's kind of a bogus award. I mean, look, most improved also kind of a bogus award. Coach of the year is usually awarded, like, a year late or in response to the wrong thing. Yes. We don't do these well. But here we are.

Well, we're trying to do it better, right? Like, we're trying to rectify mistakes, although, I don't know, we're mostly speaking to who will win and not who should win. The who should, you know, talk to us in April, I guess. That's right. I mean, Josh Hart has to be named here. Yeah. If he is indeed going to come off the bench, looks like that's the case.

I would think so. Chris Paul, I think Howard Beck nominated him. I dig it. I like it as like just a bookend to his career. Yeah. We'll see how many games he actually plays. He only plays 82 now. That's right.

That's what he does. And then I wrote down, Jerome, but unfortunately he's also hurt because he's a Grizzly's point card. Rookie of the Year. It's Cooper Flag. That's an easy one. I don't really, you know, we don't need to dance around it. You know what I love most about his preseason highlights, which are spectacular in their own right?

Quite. It's in the midst of a sizzle reel. He's doing something different to, like, shock and all you on every possession. Like, one, he's like running the pick and roll and pulling up for a three. The next he's catching a lob dunk. And the next one, he's going behind his back in the lane for a pull-up jumper. I'm like, that's three levels scoring already in a pretty season highlight. Cooper Flagg is so fun to watch that you just describe like versatility to us.

Oh my God. It's what it is. Like, he just can't do. Like, there's a reason why in a pinch he's all of a sudden playing point guard. And I think it's the reason why whatever you think of his absolute ceiling as a player, the floor is just like so phenomenally high. At least it seems it. Like the fact that he is as competitive, that he plays as hard as he does, that he is a two-way player.

and he can just do all of this stuff, there's just only so bad, like a player like that can only be so bad. All right, last one. Coach of the year. I think it's going to be Jamal Mosley. Okay. I just think the magic are going to be that kind of team. So the Suggs injury, you're not...

I mean, it always alarms me. Every time Jalen Suggs gets hurt, which is a lot, I'm always concerned. Yeah. I just think overall their offense is going to be significantly improved. And I hope that some of that is, you know, mechanical as much as it's just like plug in and play in Desmond Bain, It's not just like, oh, we brought in a shooter and some point card help and all of a sudden everything's fixed.

I think there's some ways in which they can clean up the way they play and better prioritize and kind of triage what the elements of their offense are. And I think, like, I trust Jamal Mosley to do those things. I think he's going to do it. I think the wins will be there. And history tells us if the bump is there and wins, then he will win. The bump is why I went Quinn Snyder, because Hawks could take a similar bump in wins and they sure could. Have an easier path because they had the depth. no injuries to speak of at this point.

I'm a little bit worried about the magic, but I do, this is why the Tias Jones signing was, we made so much about it. He's not an emergency point card. He might be your point card. He might be the point card. So like, what is it that, is it just the injury stuff that concerns you about Orlando?

Yeah. And just like you've seen their offense get particularly sludgy when Suggs isn't there. You wouldn't think of him as being the unsticker there, but he not only has connector skills and he's gotten much better of that over the past season or two. he's just like the fact that he plays so goddamn hard like I think also galvanizes them in a certain way

and so maybe Bain can do that he has the exact game in order to do that and Jones is similar regard but I want to see it before I really get behind it I can understand it I think I'm just like to Orlando build at this point in terms of completely buying their defense completely buying Franz

I'm really optimistic about Palo's season and what it's going to look like in part because of these additions and so yeah look Jalen Suggs changes their team whenever he's on the floor. I hope he's healthy immediately, if possible. But if it takes slow playing it to keep him healthy through the back part of the season, then I'm willing to concede that.

I can see it. All right. Finals picks. It all comes down to this. Yeah. You will be rated by this your entire life. I wish I had a more interesting answer than Thunder over Nix, but I just feel like it's going to be Thunder Over Nix.

Yeah, I have nuggets over Nix. I talked about this in the Power Ranking Spine. You've really come around. Yeah. How does it feel? Did you just decide to reverse engineer the fact that you were going to believe in the nuggets now? Or did it come to you naturally? Came naturally.

I talked about this last season how I was convinced on Yokic just watching him decide that he was going to be one of the best shooters in the league. At that, it's like it's really hard to put up a fight about anything. Okay. And then the fact that he is always available. And the big problem with that team last year was that they just didn't have the depth in order to supplement what they already had. and I just see it all coming together with a couple of bench players. Like they were the team that pushed the thunder. Obviously the thunder are going to be the ones chase this year.

Have a chance to be awesome yet again. I can easily see them winning another title. But if it's not them, I have a hard time picking anyone but the numbers. I'm not going to say a bad word about the construction of the nuggets. Like that's a really good team that's going to be competitive with everyone all season. It's not about what Denver can't do. To me, it's OKC coming into the season, having proven everything they need to prove and only having the potential to be better,

like to build on their continuity. I think Chet is probably like one of the players to watch in terms of potential upside swing, what he's ultimately going to be, the clarifying importance of his development for the Thunder as a franchise, but it's just like, I expect Jason Wallace to be better,

I expect him to be better, I expect J-Dub to be better. Shea will come back with somehow even more ways to make you look like an absolute idiot while you're trying to guard him. All of these guys are going to be incrementally better. and so that feels overwhelming to me. Even in a world where nobody repeats anymore,

I think the Thunder are just going to repeat. Does Leon get a ring? Of course he does. Of course he does. Well, no, but he should. He should get, again, a smaller ring sent to him that I think he deserves it. How will they fit on those big old hands? You know what?

I think we should implement that rule. Like if you're on the OKC blue, why don't you get a ring? I think you probably have to pay at some point, some of that. It's like a gift, right? You probably have to pay taxes on that stuff. Oh, you're saying as the player. Yeah. Okay, yeah, we don't want to do that.

We don't want to like extreme makeover people where they help them to pay like property taxes on something they can't afford. Yeah. In that case, maybe let's just leave it to the pros. But Nix, you're buying them in the East. I'm buying them relatively. I think they still have, you know,

their offense, we're going to need to see kind of consistently humming to understand what it is and how formidable it can be. But most importantly for them, I just, I buy the depth. Like, I think Gabby Staling and Clarkson is actually really, really meaningful. And the combination of them, plus hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, having Mitchell Robinson healthy for the whole year, that's kind of enough for me to believe in them as a, as,

as I was going to say as a playoff team, they've already won a hell of a lot in the playoffs, but to get over the kind of hump they would need to to beat Cleveland and Orlando and Atlanta and all these other kind of would-be challenges that they're going to run into. Yeah, I think that Malcolm Brogden in prompt to retirement, like shook my fears a little bit because like, there's a little bit of a, there's depth. Yeah. And that's why I believe them in the same reasons that you do.

I took it as like Malcolm Brogan is so shook by Tyler Kolek. He's like, I can't even compete with this guy. Maybe that could be, or like Landry Shamet part 19 of just clinging to a good roster and just like maybe being able to do something in the playoffs, but not really. He did though. Yeah, but like, will we do it again? I believe it. I believe in Landry Shamet at this point. I think we have been proven wrong.

No, but I think the Knicks have the right calculation or the right mix in order to get past what they were last year, which was a very good starting unit. And then it was like, we'll see. Yeah. So I believe in then. And I also believe in the Nuggets, despite your pessimism and doubt about my dim. What are you talking about? Yeah. All right.

That's it for us. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to all the 19 people back there, Elmo and what else is back there? Jomi, I see. Hey, Jomey. We'll be back on Thursday.

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