The Ringer NBA Show - Breaking Down the Rudy Gobert Trade and Day 2 of Free Agency

Episode Date: July 2, 2022

Logan and Rob start by discussing the Rudy Gobert trade and what it means for both the Timberwolves and the Jazz (1:36). Then, they talk about Malcolm Brogdon going to the Celtics (16:18), before breaking down some of the rest of the big stories from Day 2 of free agency (21:15). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Rob Mahoney Associate Producer: Carlos Chiriboga Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Available on Spotify. Basketball is very good. What's Bobbin? Logan Murdoch here. Big Rob. Big Rob Mahoney there. We're here for a Thursday edition, a special Thursday edition of the Ringer NBA show.

I'm here to talk to you guys about the ins and outs and everywhere in between NBA Free Agency. How are you doing, Rob? I'm doing okay, but I mean, my wires are a little crossed. There's a lot of players moving around.

There's a lot of stuff happening. I think I might have gotten traded for Rudy Gobert today. I'm not really sure if I'm in that deal or not. You might have been, you might have been like cast consideration somehow on that. I think you might have been in that one.

It's a great segue, because that is the first thing we are going to talk about. the Rudy Gobert trade, which is the news of the day, right, for Friday, July 1st. Thursday was all about Kevin Durant demanding a trade. Now we actually see a trade actually happening with Rudy Gobert. Going to the Minnesota Timberwolves for a plethora of first round picks, Pat Bev, Malik Beasley, Walker Kessler.

We are getting the Utah Jazz are getting the 2023, 2025, 2027, protected picks and a top five protected pick in 2029. First impressions of that. Everything that I just said, just first impressions of that, Rob Mahoney. Boy, that's a lot. That's a lot of stuff. I mean, I think my brain naturally kind of splits this up into two things, right? It's like, do we like the fit and do we like the cost?

And I think those are two pretty different questions for me. I mean, how are you feeling about just the idea of Gobert next to Carl Towns, next to Anthony Edwards with the guys they have. How are you feeling about that? So if anyone has heard me on real ones, you know that I have not been kind to Rudy Gobert, specifically his defense in the playoffs. Obviously, he's statistically one of the greatest defenders of all time.

And I feel like whenever I make that point that he gets targeted and picking roles, he is, you know, all the above of things that you hear about his defensive ability or lack thereof in the postseason. I am told by you, I am told by Sir and Sohee, I am told by everyone, hey, they're in Utah, he was the lone defender, like defensive-minded person on that team,

didn't get a lot of help from his wings, didn't get a lot of help from everyone else that is not a rim protected, right? So when you see him now alongside this roster in Minnesota, you have Anthony Edwards, who can be, has all the tools, in the makings of being a really, really good defender in this league.

And you put him alongside Carl Anthony Towns, who's true, I know in the modern NBA, you might call him a five, but in his true, maybe he might want to play, puts him in his rifle position as before. If Minnesota can get enough defensive wings around Rudy, I think it's a good play, right? I think that that's a good thing. And also, it's a fresh start for Rudy because, let's just be honest, for the last three, four years. It just seems like Utah and that locker room just

didn't like him for whatever reason. Fair or unfair. So I think it's a good, just taking the picks away from it, the compensation away from it. I think it's a good opportunity for the Minnesota Timberwolves to build around Carl Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards, but

I do have a caveat. And I want to hear your opinion on this, Rob. Okay. This trade shows me that Minnesota has gone all in And there's all into postseason success and whatever that means for them, right? They are no longer that team on the bubble where it's like, oh, they could. If they build their pieces, they could build something organically.

They were at a crossroads. If they want to go and make a deal to be a contender into that next upper echelon of Western conference teams or continue their build just exponentially, they chose to vote rightfully into, oh, we're going to contend now. is that, do you think that, do you think one that's the case? And the second question is, do you think Rudy Gobert is going to put them over the top?

Because there's so much compensation going the other way, he kind of has to be that guy. Yeah, I think that's what they're aiming for, right? And you can see if you want to, like, do the math for them, how they got there, right? As the Timberwolves, we pushed the Grizzlies, we gave them everything they could handle in the first round. That Grizzlies team, they went to play the Warriors.

And Steve Kerr said that was our big. challenge in the playoffs was, I think it was game six. That was our toughest game we played all playoffs long. And so if you're saying we stacked up so well with the Grizzlies, they stacked up so well with the Warriors, the Warriors win the title, why not us? Right. Like, why couldn't we at least get in the mix with some of these other contending teams? Maybe they can, maybe they can't. But I think you zero it in on something pretty smart, which is the problem in Utah was that he didn't really have a lot of defensive help around him. So he was the lone guy manning that defense, propping it up. I'm not sure short of

the kind of advancement from Anthony Edwards that you described like making good on all those physical tools. Like DeAngelo Russell, Carl Towns, even though he's gotten a little better defensively, this is not a stout defensive team, especially when you think about the guys they traded away. Pat Beverly, Jared Vanderbilt, those are two

of their best defenders last season. So Gobert, he's going to have to do a lot again, but I think he's going to have so much help offensively. I think it's just a more well-rounded roster than what we saw in Utah, which was so Donovan Mitchell-centric. I'm optimistic about what they can do. That said, they got some work to do to fill out kind of the periphery of

this roster, to make it a more fully fledged thing to get some of that depth that they're going to need to survive the regular season because the tent poles are pretty strong between towns and Gobert and Russell and Edwards. They just signed Kyle Anderson, who I think is a good fit for them. They still have Jaden McDaniels, who's a good player. They're going to need one or two more guys, and especially they're going to need a lot of shooting to make this thing work if you're going to play too big all the time. What do you think about two bigs right now? And our Lord's year of 2022 where, you know, it's when, and the Lakers, I think the Lakers did this a few years ago, where the league is going so small and you want all these wings. And now this is the late,

the Minnesota Timboros are the latest team to go. Oh, no, we're going to double down on two bigs down there. Do you think that that's going to help them in the long or is it going to hurt them? Are they just going to be left behind in a league that is definitely going small and wing heavy? Is it going small and wing heavy, though? I think that's definitely where we've been, right, indisputably. Phoenix will see where they end up after all the Kevin Durant stuff. But other than that, I mean, Golden State certainly plays small. But Dallas just signed Javelle McGee to play him with Christian Wood.

New Orleans is playing Zion with Biggs. Memphis obviously plays big. Although Jaron Jackson Jr.'s is going to be injured, they may have to figure something else out there. A lot of these teams in the West, I mean, I guess the Clippers are the other exception. The Clippers and the Warriors, who might be the two best teams in the conference, are playing small. Everyone else is kind of playing big right now. And I think it's somewhat a function of the marketplace

and just like we can't get those good wing guys. So let's get these solid bigs instead and see if we can make it work. Maybe that's wishful thinking. But if you're going to try to do it, you can certainly do worse than Carl Towns one of the most versatile offensive bigs we have. And Rudy Gobert, as you said,

this incredibly accomplished defender. Let's roll the dice with that and see if it works. Now, you may not want to roll the dice at the cost of four future first round picks, most of which are largely unprotected. That's a steep cost, but you can understand how they got there. So let's talk about the compensation. Yeah.

Was your jaw, did you break your jaw because it was on the floor? Like, what was a reaction when you saw the compensation for that? Because, man, like for a team that's trying to build, and honestly, you can get in it, we're also in a league. I'll do the caveat that we're in a league that, like, you can get draft picks if you really want to. You can always get draft picks. You can kind of, as this league is also,

shown us you can always get players for draft picks. It's kind of a give and take, right? But how did they sacrifice their short-term future, which is something in the team that they're trying to build? If you're trying to build around Anthony Edwards or Carl Towns, you need to build, the history suggests you need to build through the draft. Did they give up too much for a Rudy Gobert who's 30 and a big man who, you know, big bands don't have a long shelf life here. 30 is as old for big man terms. If they give up. up too much for him? They certainly gave up a lot and a lot in a way that

I think would make you concerned, but when you're in a position like they are, if you're not giving up Edwards or Towns, you're going to be giving up a lot. Because what else do you have to get you that third star to put you over at the top? I think they were really hoping Russell could be that guy. He is very far from being that guy.

And so I think one thing about this that I do like is they had a little bit of a scale problem with their defense, which is part of the reason they were so improved last season was they were so much better defensively. And a lot of that came from Pat Beverly and Jared Vanderbilt to role players on their team. And so

the question is like, how do you get even better than that if so much of your identity on one side of the ball is coming from these role players, not from your stars? And so they've solved that problem by replacing Vanderbilt in particular with Gobert. I like how that piece of it fits. It's a lot

to give up. But I mean, as we're seeing with the Dejante Murray trade, as we're seeing around the league right now, and I'm sure as we're going to see in the Kevin Durant trade, A lot of picks, mostly unprotected picks is kind of the going rate for this stuff right now. I want to go to Salt Lake City where Donovan Mitchell is technically a jazz man right now. Technically, there is a lot of chatter around how long that will be the case. And this does, it's funny because there was a similar moment in the first round of the Western Conference finals.

or in the Western Conference playoffs when the Jazz were playing against the Mavericks, I believe it was game four. And Donovan Mitchell throws a lob to Rudy Gobert and that seemed to be the seminal moment of their year like the big like, we're going to be fine. Don't even worry about it, right?

And I think Donovan kind of bought into that right? Now we're seeing the writing on the wall that at the very least, Danny Ains wants to rebuild in Utah. What was the post game quote from Rudy Gobert after that lot? Was it, was it, was it, along the lines. Fuck the talk, right? But like, it was, it's seen, that moment seems so inorganic, man.

It did not, it seemed very forced. I think Donovan was very used to see Gobert. There's like, I'm going to throw this lob and we're going to make this history. And we're just going to make this moment. But everything suggests that the writing is on the wall for Donovan Mitchell to leave. Yeah. That's where I'm of two minds. It does seem like that.

I guess it'll depend on his page. patience, right? Because they got, like, as we're saying, they got a lot back here in terms of picks. Those picks can be flipped pretty much immediately if they're able to locate another star for him to play with or if they want to kind of slow play it. But I think the lesson here overall is that Utah was right. Like they've been holding on Rudy Gobert trade offers for a while, basically demanding this kind of return, you know, whether they were requiring all-star level players, whether they're requiring a package of basically this four first-round picks or more. that's kind of where they had drawn the line. And I think now that they have all that stuff, there's a lot of different directions they could go. I could see, I can see a future in which they keep Mitchell for this season for sure. And he gets to see what a team looks like

with that Rudy Gobert, whatever other pieces they can bring in there, what kind of conversations they can have about who his future co-star could be. You know, he's an ambassador of that franchise in a way that not many stars are. You know, he's really planted a flag there. And I think he's going to hold on to that a little bit longer.

if I had to guess. I'm on the other side of that. I think that... You think he's out. You think the bags are packed? I think... I don't know if the bags are packed yet, but, you know, we're looking at...

You know, we're looking at spots and some beachside home somewhere in Florida. We're looking at maybe, you know, some Scottsdale houses. Who among us hasn't done some casual zillowing, you know? I'm a redfin guy myself. Oh, okay. Sorry. No free ads.

No, but I think that... Whenever you look at this, if history is a guide, if you look at superstars, they all got homies, right? They all have homies and they all have hommates that become teammates. Yeah? You catch him my drift? They have homies that are teammates and that are always going to be good as long as the superstars there, right?

I'm looking at Eric Pascoll. Yeah. I'm looking at him no longer being on the team right now. I'm looking at a, I'm looking at a coach and Quinn Snyder who was no longer with the organization. Yeah? I'm looking at the, no matter what you think of this guy, I'm looking at the second best player on the team. Just packed his bags and he's going, he's on some sort of housing site looking for a new crib, right? And I'm looking at Donovan Mitchell, looking like Will Smith in the middle of the house

in the series finale of Fresh Prince, looking around like, this isn't an organization that I was drafted by. This is not. It's not. Yeah. Different front office, different coaching staff. The only familiar face to him is Dwayne Wade, who never played one minute in Salt Lake. It's just in the ownership box, right?

there is nothing familiar for Donovan Mitchell. So even if he were to play another year, it just seems like a lame duck year. I just don't believe that you could come back from this, right? There's just too many, there's just too much change over the last. And another thing, the last five years, the jazz have been who the jazz are for the last five years.

Maybe they're still in as the conference finals. They can have one of those 2019 Trailblazer runs where they just got into the conference finals but it doesn't really mean much. I think he's just he's also like on the low flirted with going to other places. I think

the shit has hit the fan Rob. That's what I think. It might have hit the fan and the question will be when does Donovan push, like pull that trigger? When does he go the Durant route and say I need you to trade me? Because short of that they might do the same thing with him that they did with Gobert in the sense that we're going to

wait out the market. Every team in the league expects us to trade Donovan Mitchell right now. So the offers are not going to be where they might be by the trade deadline, going into next summer, whatever that might be. I think you're ultimately right. Within the next 18 months, it would surprise me if Donovan Mitchell is a jazz for that full term. But as far as like, are we going to see something this week? Are we going to see something next week? By the end of free agency, by the end of the off season, I kind of think he's going to start the season as a jazz. It's jazz man, a jazz man.

Shout out to Walters. You know what it is. Let's go to another big trade. And I was texting, you know, I was like, what you want to talk about, Rob? What's going on? And you said, Ruehobere, at another guy you said, I'm going to switch conferences here. Malcolm Brogden, going to the Celtics. So this is one of those pickups that happen when you are already a contender, right?

Where you already know what you got. You already have your two, you have your guys, you were locked in. you just may or may not have gotten a few weeks of removed from a finals run, you know? This is the type of pickup you get to enhance a roster. But I'm just going to be honest. I know this just got like a lot of traction on the timeline, a lot of traction on television shows. I'm not bought in. I'm not bought into this trade.

I'm not locked in. You're nonplussed, nonplussed by this deal. I'm nonplussed by this deal. The biggest thing, and I know that Malcolm Brognan, He averages 19 points a game is a welcome score, extra score to a team that needs it, an extra playmaker to a team that needs it. We both watched the Celtics in the finals.

We saw what it was. They didn't lose based on their defensive prowess. They lost because they could get buckets, right? Now, while Brogden can get buckets, he cannot stay on the floor, right? The guy just can't stay on the floor. You know, I'm going to hat tip this to Brian Winhorse. He's averaged 48 games a season over the last three years.

It's not great. Not what you want. That's not what you want. I will continue my tangent, but I want to know, what do you think about this trade? Are you, are you, I feel like you're a bit higher on this trade than I am. I mean, I'm higher on it on the grounds of do I like Malcolm Brogden as a player better than Peyton Pritchard, right? Like, that's where the line is. Because he's coming in.

I think it's less about do you love Malcolm Brogden and his injury history and more about kind of in the opposite vein of Gobert. How do you feel about this relative to giving up basically a future first than Aaron Neesmith are the only like material things they gave up? And Aaron Neesmith may or may not be an NBA player. We really don't know. So I like it. I like it from the pure gamble of we're already a great team as you outlined.

We need a little bit of ball handling. We need some guard help. it's kind of an outsized version of what they tried with Derek White, right? And that's where I would hope if you're looking at Malcolm Brogden and his injury history and saying, what could be different here? I mean, for one, the workload is going to be different than anywhere he's ever played.

He has a lot of scoring help around him in Boston. But also a lot of guard help. You know, like between Marcus Martin, Derek White, like there's really not a reason why Malcolm Brogden, who, I mean, believe it or not, he's only 29 years old. He feels like he's 34 with that kind of. injury history, but he's only 29, but he should be playing sub 30 minutes a game this season. Like, there's really just not a need to stretch him very far. And so hopefully that gets him

above 40-something games played. The key to this, though, and I agree with you, the key to this is we need to see the next step. Because this isn't a regular season move by any means. The soldiers are going to be fine. The key to this is the gradual evolution of Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown. They have to reach another level next year, right? Like, they have all the help. Malcolm Brogden, if he plays 82 games,

one that's amazing if he plays 82 games. But if he plays 82 games and is a perfect third score for that team, and Jalen takes his lumps and watches a film and holds

onto that basketball very, very tight. it'll be a great move. You know, the Celtics are right there in the, in the Eastern Conference. They're right there. You know, Rob Williams has to get healthy.

We got to see, there's still a lot of question marks with Celtics, right? Because, you know, Al Horford, we have to see how he plays next year with another, you know,

I don't know what year he's in, but, you know, he's getting older, right? So there's a lot, there's still a lot more questions with the Celtics. It was a solid move. I am just curious about the injury history.

This can go either way. That really does put everything in perspective, though. Not just with this move, but so many of these moves where ultimately the Celtic season is going to be decided by can Jason Tatum be 20% better than he played in the finals? And maybe that's it. Maybe they win the championship last year. Maybe they went at this next year.

I think if you're Boston, you hope that Brogden is the kind of guy who helps you get to the conference finals, who helps you survive some of those what are looking to be pretty brutal matchups in the East with some of these top teams. The Nets may be out of that group, but everyone else looks like they're stocking up. I want to go rapid fire with you really with you, Rob. Let's do it.

What is a move out there in your eyes that didn't get as much a claim as it should have gotten? That hasn't gotten all the claim. It hasn't been on the ticker. Has it been all that that will pay the most dividends going into the next season. The most dividends. I mean, there's some that just like teams could not afford to lose this guy. Kavana Luni, case in point.

like if the Warriors lost Kavana Luni if someone plucked him away I think they would be kind of screwed and so moves like that not a huge bit of business Kvon Luni getting three years 26ish million dollars Oh it is in the Bay Area I will say this

that is a huge dues in the Bay area Lundog getting his appropriate praise out here in the Bay certainly but everywhere else these are the moves that champions absolutely have to make because you're already losing two rotation pieces and Gary Payton the second auto port you cannot afford to lose your one

legitimate center that's going to buy James Wiseman time, hopefully to become James Wiseman. I know we said rapid fire, but she went to the Warriors. I just wanted to just give my little piece on what they did. They got Dante DiVincenza, which is a solid pickup, you know, a considerate. We called what we called a cheaper Gary Payton the second before the pod. Lost Auto Porter and Juan Anderson, Juan Tiscano Anderson, which I don't think hurt anybody would be. You know, he's going to the Lakers. But the biggest thing I saw from the war.

Warriors is big trusty institution energy from them, right? They didn't, they didn't really, they didn't really make any splashes like that. They just, you know, we, we, we trust in the process. Honestly, the biggest news out of there is if an extension is going to happen, but with, with either Wiggins and, and or Jordan Poole. So, big trusty institution energy from the Warriors. And it's going to put a lot of pressure on those, of those teenagers next year. We got to see what Moses Moody and Cominga does.

Do you, are the warriors, I guess this is my second rapid fire question. Are the warriors going to regret losing the guys that they did, specifically GP2, Gary Payton the second? I think so. And I'm pretty high on Moody. I think he's going to be a good player for them this year. But that's a deep end of the pool to throw a young guy into saying, oh, you're going to come in and have to guard top-wing players as much as, as much as someone like Gary Payton did. That's where you hope Wiggins is up for it again.

You hope you can kind of scrap the rest of it together. But you need as many of those tough-ass dig-in perimeter defenders you can get. And Gary Payton, the second, is about as good as a player as you're going to find in that type. And certainly at that price range. It's just a shame they weren't able to kind of, you know, they only had so much to offer between basically giving him the mid-level or I think early bird rights was really their only other option. Portland outbid them. And here we are. Now he's a blazer.

Yeah. Another question. Which team benefited the most from sitting still? I know that's, we're only in day two of free agency. And a lot can happen. We're kind of at a standstill right now, especially with Kevin being, with Kevin Durant,

not knowing where his trade partner, but early on, who benefited the most from not doing the splashy moves? I think probably Milwaukee. You know, they brought back Bobby Portis to another guy they could not afford to lose, their own kind of Kavon Looney. They brought back West Matthews.

They brought back Javon Carter. That's kind of it right now. But you have Janice and you have Chris Middleton coming back and hopefully he's healthier at the end of your season this time. And you have Drew Holiday. I think they have a lot of reason to look at their roster and say, we should have won the East if Chris had been healthy. And so let's give it another crack at it and see if we can do it this time.

See, Milwaukee is just one of those teams that lingers. They're just going to linger forever. They're going to linger as long as Janus is there. I think I'm just going to, it's really early. We haven't done the rural ones season preview yet. I just put the bucks in for the Eastern Conference Championship. Just put that as your pick no matter what. Just like it doesn't even matter.

As long as Jan is on the roster, just put them on there, right? Like, there, it's funny because they have, they're the, the Eastern Conference version of, you know, I guess what the Warriors hope to be, right? Where they're just there. They're just going to be there. Honestly, a better example is like the spurs of the, the, the, maybe, about a decade ago, right? Where you just pencil them in, you know?

And where they have the institution, they have the player to build around, they don't have any controversy. You haven't really heard anything coming out of Milwaukee like that. Oh, it's just fine. We're just going to keep on trucking. Milwaukee's just one of those teams for me. Absolutely.

I mean, I have a feeling I'm going to do the same thing. I think we can go ahead and pencil them in as the favorite. Again, unless something crazy happens like Katie goes to Miami, you know, something really seismic. But short of that, I'm going to bet on Janus a lot of the time. Anyone asks me to bet on anything. All right. Are you ready for Legacy Talk real quick?

Do we have to? It's July. No, I'm ready. I mean, yeah. That's when we do Legacy Talk. All right, all right. If Kyrie Irving's career were to end tomorrow or today, how would we look at it?

He's a Hall of Famer, right? Yeah, I think so. I think on those grounds, I mean, I think it's a disappointment, certainly, just in terms of maybe a star who had more within his control blow up in his face than almost any other star in modern NBA history. I think you would look at guys who were chronically out of shape being in that category, guys who just could not get along with other high-calibur teammates being in that category,

but Kyrie really takes the boat in terms of finding so many different ways to shoot himself in the foot at these various stops. I think it would be looked at as a shame. And that's kind of a bummer for a guy who has one of the most iconic shots in playoff history, some incredible moments, obviously has the skill set to be as good as anyone. I think you'd be seen as a Hall of Famer and a disappointment. That's a hell of a juxtaposition. Yeah.

Isn't it, though? It's just, and it's sad because it's like a guy that is supremely talented has the game to play with the all-time greats of his era. And at times, he had LeBron James off to the sideline, like, yo, pass him the ball. I need, pass him the ball so we could get this title, you know? I want him to ISO with the game on the line, the biggest game of my life. Give it to him. And, you know,

I might have a take for you. I've been, and I don't even know if this is going to make the show, Rob. But I think I'm going to compare Kyrie Irving to Jay-Z. Okay. And not like Jay-Z, like, of, I'm going to compare him to the criticisms we get of Jay-Z. Oh, we're getting real better here. I happen to think that Jay-Z is the greatest rapper of all time. But I'm just going to go with the criticisms that we have.

them, Jay-Z. Jay-Z has had two sell-out stadium tour, sir. Two of them, right? And he could tell you that. And he's right. And he's right. But who are those two stadium tours with one, Rob Mahoney?

One was with Justinberlake. Right? Okay. The other stadium tour was with, was with Beyonce Nolz. So he wins his championship. no matter how talented

is, wins his championship on the back with other people. Yeah. Beyonce is the LeBron in this equation, right? Beyonce is 100% of LeBron in this equation. Phenomenal. Phenomenal reference. There we go.

It's a great... And I workshopped this earlier. As a great player, but all of the... I think that a great player that thinks he's greater than he actually is. To the detriment of all the team. around him, right?

I think when it's all said it done, the bark wasn't worth the bite. And that is saying a lot, considering the fact that he is one of the greatest players I've ever seen live. I've never, I, like, man, I'm just jaw-dropping, right? But chronically stubbed his,

like, just put his foot in his mouth, man, just all these things. And it's just, I just think disappointing. And I think that's my Kyrie take. I think what makes it a bummer is he has to kind of complete your Jay-Z situation here. Like he has the mentality to be a co-headliner. Like the problem is not that he doesn't want to play with Kevin Durant or he doesn't want to play with other star players.

Like when he and Hardin and Durant were out there together and Kyrie gave up the ball, he was willing to cut, he was willing to defend, he was doing all the stuff you would want a star of his reputation to do, to give up in those situations, and he did it. He was willing to be a co-headliner. It's just all this other stuff, whether it's the injuries, whether it's the refusal to get vaccinated,

whether it's I'm just going to peace out for a week for my birthday. Like, there's just so many weird things with him perpetually. I can't wait to see what his next act is and what his next team will allow him to get away with. I do think, and I have a couple more questions for it. But I do think that the most plausible, way and I know he wants to go to Los Angeles and play. He wants to go to Los Angeles and play with LeBron.

I think that might be the best thing for him. I think that might be the best thing that he can hope for. I think that that is the only place and the only other person that he has reverence for, that I think he'll stay in line. And I think that if he comes or goes to the Lakers, I think they're right up there. If they can keep A.D. and LeBron and and, and Kyrie, that's a team that can win a title. Like, point blank, that you could put them talent-wise over the Warriors.

You can put them on paper, you're like, whoa, if they could just put this together. That could be a special team. It could be, but we'll see what happens. I wouldn't be surprised to have part of Kyrie, not to get too far into his head, because whatever is going on up there. Yeah, it's a labyrinth up there. But I would not be surprised if part of him took that part of playing with LeBron for granted. The idea that like when I play with LeBron and I do things, people are going to ask me about it a little bit,

but the spotlight is so fixed on LeBron all the time that I can kind of coast around in the background and do my Kyrie thing. And then when he's gone off on his own, whether it's in Boston, whether it's in Brooklyn, even with Kevin Durant, so much of the attention was around Kyrie at all times, I think he might have taken for granted just the freedom that gives you as like the guy in the background while everyone looks at LeBron That's the hired gun just to just like

I'm just gonna just gonna make shots bro, you worry about him and I'm good because it doesn't seem like contrary to popular belief like I know this is gonna sound wild on the service but it doesn't seem like a guy that wants all the attention bro like I'd think he saw the attention

is like oh shit like he got this LeBron level spotlight and like, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, when he had to explain his raps, it was not, it didn't go so well, right? All right. A couple more questions. Let's do it.

Do we believe the Knicks have a plan? Yeah, why not? What would lead you to believe that they don't? And is signing Jalen Brunson not enough of a plan for you, I guess is the question? I just don't know what they're going to, I think I just, it's my bad. And I probably should be, it's my bad that I just hold the old Knicks against the new Knicks. I think that's what it is.

I mean, they earned it. They earned it. So like everything that they do is kind of scrutinize, overpay. And I think when you're at the level of where the Knicks are in terms of the league, you have to overpay for guys. You just do. You don't have the reputation to just be like, oh, somebody's going to take less to come here. Right.

But Jalen Brunson being the first guy, right, of the regime. like we're going to overpay to get just doesn't make me feel settled with the Knicks. It's not the best but Brunson's a solid player. It's not the best start. No, but he wants to be there. You know, like he's a good player who wants to play for your team and he fits what you need

enough to justify it. Like I think that's where I am. It's murky and kind of hilarious with everything that's swirling around that in terms of who is related to who and who is coach to and who works for whom. There's a lot. There's a lot going on in the Jalen Brunson

situation that's very funny. But in pure basketball terms, he's going to make them better. And does he get them into a rock solid playoff spot? Probably not. But I think they're probably entrenched in that play-in group with maybe the Cleveland's, maybe the Chicago's, depending on how the rest of their offseason goes. We'll have to see kind of how everything shakes out. But I think they're in that six to nine kind of range, probably.

Two more questions. Are we going to look back at this mini deal? Just bring it all full circle. Are we going to look back at this mini-deal? at this many deal in five years like, oh, this was the success? Or damn, we gave up a lot of assets and we're fucked. I'm going to say neither. I think it's going to be a relative success that'll get them further in the playoffs,

that'll make them a more sustainable team, and the picks are going to be fine. I think one of those picks is going to turn out to be a real player, and there will be a section of the fan base that rings its hands over whoever that is. But look at the pick they gave up. They gave up the number 22 pick this season. That was part of the trade package. This guy they just selected. Are you really going to miss a couple of number

22 picks? I mean, it sucks not to have it and to have that in your developmental pipeline, but that's not what dooms you as a franchise. Especially like Tim Connolly, one of his strengths running a front office was finding guys. You know, was finding a Tory Craig off the scrap heap, finding

a Gary Harris and turning him into a player. Like, that was kind of he did in Denver and we'll have to see if he can do it again or if that was the scouting apparatus, if that was his decision making, who knows. But he's going to have a shot at it because they're not going to have first round picks for a while. Last question, man, before we get out of here just to do it. We talked about this on a KOC Spotify Live. I don't know if you went on there. It was very long. It seemed like a party. Everybody else was in there. It was like three hours long. I kicked it for like an hour and I was like, I got to go. But one of the questions that was brought was

what's the what's the team that you want Kevin Durant to go to? What's the destination you would want to want to see him at? Memphis would be my pick would love I mean the combination

basically when I'm thinking of Katie I'm like who are the electric guards who can play off of his shooting as well as anyone and that that answer starts and stops with John Moran right?

Like if you can get those two guys together and I almost don't care what it takes to get there I know you're probably going to have to give up Jaron Jackson Jr. who I think is a tremendous defender. I don't know you might have to give up a Dylan Brooks or a Desmond Bain or whoever that is to kind of make that package

makes sense, but man, I would love it. I don't think KD wants that, but that's what I want. You know, Memphis would love Kevin Durant. You hear me? They would love him. And it would be fine of the co-sign that Memphis has always wanted in this league, right? They've always

one of the... It would be also interesting like how Memphis and Memphis probably go get there at a point in time whether, I don't think Katie's going to Memphis but Memphis, I'm curious to see how they are

as a winner and is like an expected winner, right? Just like one of those teams where they're not the underdog. Like no, everyone's, bro, the barbecue is the best and we already know this, right?

We already know. We already know Central Barbecue was the best, you know? But I think, I would like to see him like, see him to Phoenix would be kind of tight. This is one of those cases where the highly reported favorite destination is actually pretty cool.

It's pretty cool. Like, you get to, like, you see him. He's in, like, Golden State's division. He has a chance to see Golden State in the Western Conference finals and just redeem and just throw a middle. Could you, because we're going to be at that game. Like, like, he has a chance to beat the warriors and, like, throw a middle finger and chase in her. Just like, I don't, okay. Yeah.

All right. You guys talk, like, he has that chance, right? That would just be very entertaining for, for basketball. Also, he could also do that in Memphis, which I don't know if I haven't answered for that. It'll be, it'll be him throwing a middle finger and John Morant throwing a middle finger to everyone in the front row of Chase Center. That would be cool. That's just a middle finger throwing team right there. Don't you love it? Oh, I just love it. I just want them to just harness that a little bit more and just like play smarter down the stretch. They'll get there.

They'll get there one day. It's such a treat to have you on, man. It's great to have you on to lock in which you, Rob. This has been another edition or another edition of the partnership between me and Rob on a podcast. Hell yeah.

For the Ringer NBA show for day two of the 2022 NBA free agency July 1st. For regularly scheduled programming, Real Ones will be back, I believe,

next Thursday. So Roger will be back. He's on vacation with the kids and stuff. We'll see him. I'm sure he has a lot to say. You can catch me on Real Ones,

every Monday on Thursday. You can catch Rob on group chat and pretty much every Ringer podcast like this week. Any Ringer, he was on Simmons's pod. He was on group chat every Wednesday.

You check out his all his work on Ringer.com. Thanks, buddy. Thanks for coming on. Thanks, Logan. This is a blast. For sure, man. We'll see you next time. Hala.

Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.