The Ringer NBA Show - Brian Windhorst on Victor Wembanyama, LeBron James, and Don Nelson Stories | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Logan and Raja are joined by longtime ESPN sports writer and two-time New York Times best-selling author Brian Windhorst to discuss his story on top NBA prospect Victor Wembanyama and how the French phenom is readying himself for the league (8:09). Along the way, Windhorst highlights how Wembanyama compares to LeBron James as a generational prospect (31:57). Later, he talks about the impact of the late trade deadline moves from the Los Angeles Lakers and what that means for LeBron’s relationship with the team (51:48). Finally, the guys close out with their Real Ones of the Week (56:44). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Brian Windhorst Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's official. One Shining Podcast is back, and I am your host, Tate Frazier. And as March Badness begins, we're covering everything from Selection Sunday all the way to the championship and beyond. We're going to have great guests that are coming through on the show. And look, if you're a friend of the program and you're already subscribed, you don't have to do anything. OSP is back. It's going to be right back in your feed. And if you're not a friend of the program, and this is your first time on the rodeo, then let me tell you this. You need to go to Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast and smash subscribe today because the OSP show is back. What's popping?

Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Raja, who's looking at me funny through the Zoom. We have a special guest in the building. Somebody would be trying to get on for a minute. One of my favorite writers, NBA writers and writers period is in the building. Mr. Brian Winhorse. Brian, how you doing, Doc?

Good morning, guys. How's it going? Wendy, welcome to the pod, bro. Welcome to the pod. Are the Lakers going to win the championship? That's it. I mean, listen, you come on this pod. You have to know.

Like, let me just preface this entire conversation. I mean, I love how you've transitioned totally to full media man. If you're opening up a pod. Will the Lakers win a championship? No, we've got, listen, in the chat, it might not happen today because you're here and you're obviously privy to the chat. But I can, like, once an episode will be mid-conversation and there's some sort of Laker rhetoric in the chat, right?

Like from the people on the pod with me, so just before Ward. Can I tell you one of the favorite things I saw in your career? I wonder if you even remember it. Yeah, absolutely. When you got traded to the Warriors for Stephen Jackson. Okay. Your first game was in Cleveland. I don't know if you remember this.

And before I tell you the story, I love Don Nelson. Love him. But at this point in Nellie's career, and at that point in that season, I'm not sure that Nellie was 100. percent focused on maximum efficiency, maximum squeezing everything out. More than fair. So you get to the team, I believe you've just been traded there from Charlotte, is that right? Yep.

And it's this your first shoot-around. You're going to play your first game that night. And shoot-around is over. I'm there. And Nellie has just announced in the meeting with the media that he's not really there to coach the players anymore. He's just there to coach the coaches. which is an all-time quote. So he's standing over there at this trash can,

and he's got a zipper, he's got a Ziplock bag full of about eight cigars. And that's in one hand. And in the other hand, he's got a three cigar holder. And he's going through each cigar, and he's sniffing it and he's inspecting it. Nope, no good, throws that away.

And he's working on getting the three that he's going to have for his afternoon. You're down at the other end of the court. learning the offense. They're basically saying, okay, this is what, you know, two down means,

you know, this is what our horns upset is. Like they are, you are literally trying to get ready to play that night. You've arrived 10 minutes ago, basically.

Yeah. Nellie gets his three cigars, closes him up, and he's not ready for his day. And he announces, bus is leaving. And you, you're like,

you're like, really trying to get ready to the game because you've been, just dropped into the middle of this bleep show where Stephen Jackson signed a contract and 10 minutes later to manage a trade. And I'll never forget your face. You may not recall this and I hope for your state of mind you don't. But I just remember you were like, well, I guess I'm leaving now. I guess I'll figure out the plays in my room. And I just, I mean, I know that that's a strange memory, but I always remember it seeing it go down. It's a fantastic story and stories like that like kind of take me back in a way that I don't

always get to go back. And what's funny about that is I then at a breakfast, like you know how you have like a lunch kind of set up maybe when you get back. Because I think they might have been on some sort of back to back. And the only reason there was a shoot around was because they had to show me kind of something. Right. So I had to sit there with like, I don't remember exactly who it was. And we had to go over the plays on those, you know, white tablecloths with like salt and pepper shakers at that little breakfast.

Just so I could have like three plays. you know, in the bag. And then to your original point, because I know this is not how we were going to start the pod. But I had, I had, I played only the one game, and then I had to have wrist surgery, right? Because I was injured. And so I stayed home for a while.

And then I went out to the bay to do, to finish my rehab and hopefully, you know, play a couple games to end the season. I was going to be a free agent. I remember coming from manual therapy that was like out somewhere on the outskirts of town and having to drive into the practice facility on top of the Marriott, right?

Parking. Right. So I got there one day. This is the first time I was there. And I see this truck, like old school single cab like little truck. And there's plumes of smoke coming out of it. Right. Now practice starts at 11 and it is now like 10.59. Right. I'm only excused because I've been at therapy. I walk up to the truck because I'm like, oh, this might be on fire. And in the truck sits Don Nelson smoking cigarettes and petting a dog. But listen, this is one minute before practice starts, man. He's the head coach. And I love Nelly too. Like Nellie, I had him in Dallas. I still love him to this day. But he was, I think you were more than fair was saying that at that point,

he was kind of, you know, on his own little thing. It was fantastic. I was talking to Jason Richardson for a story back in, like, I think it was like an oral history of Golden State Warriors for the We Believe year. And he tells the story of Don Nelson during that year of how Don Nelson, he had a dog, would go into the practice that says, like, for two seconds and pick up his dog and say, you know what, guys, I'm leaving. You guys have the rest of practice. And they're like shooting. You know, like the pregame shooter. I'm like, okay, you guys got practice. You guys figured out.

And so like Stephen Jackson and Barron Davis and Jason Richardson would run practice for the We Believe team because Don Nelson will be doing God knows what, probably at Lake Merritt or something. but that was that was that was normal that wasn't just a you thing roger that was that was a normal no no i had him in dallas brother i know like don nelson is on on the mount rushmore of like characters i mean true like personality characters not like hard nose you know like i'm talking about like just really interesting people nellie it's top like he's on the mount rushmore of coaches no question very candid wendy was is he one of the most candid coaches you've ever been around i remember I called him for a story a couple years ago,

and he was just like throwing flame throws at people. It was just like, oh, yeah, he was trash. He was a week. He was like, oh, he was good. I liked him. I didn't think he was going to be good at all. I mean, he's truly from a different era. You know, Stephen Jackson, those are his stories to tell,

but I have heard some stories about Stephen Jackson, about some nights out. Yes. I mean, Nellie used to take the guys to the bowling alley, you know. And, you know, but anyway, he can tell those stories. But, you know, usually players are worried, you know, coaches are worried about players getting after it before games. Sometimes Nellie was the guy saying, come on, let's go out. And he was the one leading the charge before games.

So. Yeah. But he had 800-some-odd wins, you know, the man knew how to make things happen. I just remember that day in Cleveland. And I felt bad for you, Raj. I was like, well, I don't like your, I don't like the Warriors' chances tonight. Oh, man, that's hilarious. So, Brian, I wanted to get you in here one because we've been wanting to get you in here for a while.

But another one is we're in the midst of March Madness. And, you know, just to be very candid with you, I don't think me and Roger have watched much college hoops this year. All right, cool. But we wanted to talk to you about the biggest prospect and going into the draft who was not playing in American college. Victor Wimbignana, who you went to go see in France, I think in January, I remember hearing you said he went in January, and you were able to see him. And he is now playing for a team called Metro 92. He's probably just full disclosure is the biggest most sought after prospects since LeBron James to come into the draft since LeBron. And, you know, he plays for a team

called Metro 92. And before that, he played for a team on by Tony Parker, which is, and for this season he went to Metro 92. Instead of going to a Real Madrid or a team that is maybe a contender in Eurobasket. And I read your story and I listened to your pot on the Hoops Collective. And one of the main things you were talking about was why it's so important for him to play for a team like this that he's currently on for his development. Can you kind of speak to that? Like, why is it so important? Why is this year so important for him, Brian?

And what do people around him think that this year is going to do for him going forward into his career? I, you know, I'm not one of these guys. I don't do the draft. Like, that's Jonathan Gavoni and some other people's specialty. Like, guys, there will be dudes drafted on draft night in the lottery that I have no idea who they are. I mean, I may know their names, but I don't know anything about them. and I will learn them watching Summer League and watching the league, you know. So this is not something I've ever done before.

I've covered basketball all over the world, but it's been, you know, NBA players playing in those places all over the world. So it's the first time I went over to Europe. And this was a new experience for me, not in my life to Europe, but to go to European basketball. And one thing, this sounds kind of basic, but like those teams over there, like, if they have an 18-year-old who's like potentially a first-round draft, Like, that's nice, but they're not catering to them. They're trying to win. Like, they're trying to win. You know, they're playing, like, in three or four different competitions over the course

of the year. They're playing in their National League. Like, they may play on the weekends in their National League. Then on Wednesdays, they may play, if they're lucky, in the Euro League, teams will, like, go from France to go play in Turkey. And they got to win those games. They're under pressure. And, like, those guys, I mean, some of the players have multi-year contracts,

but those teams are kind of going year to year. If you don't do well in a year, you're done. They'll throw you out. Some of those teams don't make payroll. Okay? So, like, there's a pressure that they got to win. So when Mnayama, like, even though he was going to be number pick on the draft, like, it didn't behoove some of those teams to take care of him.

So his agents who are really experienced, Buna Anjai, who lives in Dallas, he's a French national, but he lives in Dallas and he's been representing guys for 20 years. and his partner who's based in Paris, Jeremy Magiana, they formed this idea. They were like, okay, look, we're going to take him off of Tony Parker's team. This is one of the things that happened.

Before I went over there, I asked, because teams are not allowed to talk to the players. I can go talk to Victor. I can go have lunch with him, and I can pick his brain about stuff, but the teams are not allowed to do that. In the draft season, they're allowed to do it. They're allowed to bring those guys in and have meetings.

But so I asked a couple of things, of teams that were near the top of the lottery that were going to you know that we're sending people over there regularly if you could interview him what would you ask him and one of the things that i heard back was ask him and try to explain why he didn't want to go win the euro league because like we look at luka donchich that dude won everything over there okay he went to real Madrid who's one of the top teams in europe he won the spanish league he won the euro league he dominated the euro league final four he won the regular season MVP he won the final four MVP he won the final four MVP he won the He had every trophy you could win, and he took everybody's neck while he was doing it.

Here's Victor saying, no, I don't want to play in that league. And so they want to know why. They want to know, like, are you trying to, like, get away with an easier path? So that was one of the things I went over there to try to understand. And the truth is that when Yamma didn't want to be basically told how to play and what to do in this very important year. He wanted to format everything himself. He wanted to create a whole situation. So they had to find a team who would let him do that.

So it's kind of like picture if a player was it was like committed to Duke or maybe he even played a year at Duke. And then he was like, yeah, but Duke doesn't run the offense. I run and want to run. I'm not going to get the way I want to run it. So I'm going to transfer to Murray State. And I'm not even picking on Murray State. I'm just sort of picking out because Murray State will really drop everything and do everything I want. He'll let me pick the coach.

He'll let me pick the offense. Let me pick the players. everything so that they don't care whether they win games in the regular season or not. All they'll care about is whether I develop. So this team that you mentioned, Logan, Mets 92, as they call them there, they were about to, like, almost go out of business, okay? They were certainly going to drop down to a lower division probably. Their coach had already resigned, all right?

And they were like, sure, we'll do anything you want. And so he picked his coach. He was actually the coach who resigned. The guy rescinded his resignation, who happens to be the French. international team coach. He's like, hey, remember that? He did actually send in his letter. Like, he didn't just threaten it. Like, he said, hey, hey, tear that apart. Let me get that back. They signed all like super young guys, which you wouldn't want to do. You know, if you're trying to win a, you know, you guys know, you guys know, you guys know, you guys know,

win with boys. They signed all young dudes. Mostly, there's a couple of guys who are older, but mostly all young dudes. They signed two American point guards who would just come over from two-way contracts because they wanted them to play with guys who knew how to play American-style pick and roll. And one thing you're not going to do very often is win with guys with Americans who've never played in Europe before. And they go, we're going to create everything around Victor. And it was not formed a way that was going to win games in the French League, but it was formed in a way that was going to help Victor perform. And what's happened is

Victor is so good that they're performing anyway. They're like in second or third place, even with all these young guys. Even with Victor getting beat up, like they just beat the hell out of him over there. He's still leading the league in points, rebounds, blocks, free throws. Like, he's still kicking tail.

And I don't know if they're going to be good enough to get to the finals in that league because they are so young. But like, it's working. And so this is like, so Wembenyama is in the middle of a big experiment over there. And the whole point is so that when he arrives in the NBA next year, he is as ready to go as he possibly can be. And so that's kind of what we wrote about was the experiment that's going on over there to get Wembenyama ready so that when he hits the NBA, he is not like, he's going to have some growing pains because he is very young still and still needs a lot more. body maturation.

But he is not going to hopefully be like so many of these European players who come over and haven't even played 20 minutes regularly in pro games, much less thought about playing in the NBA. Yeah, it's going to be really interesting. And it was a really good article. And it made me think of a few things, a few experiences that I had. First was being over at Tau Ceramica and the ACB, which was a very high-level EuroLeague type of team.

So we had Andres Nocioni, we had Luis Scola, we had Jose Calderon, you have myself, you had Pat Burke, you had Elmer Bennett. While we were all relatively young, we were all pros already. And we would not have been able to absorb a young kid that was the next greatest thing. And at that point, in our professional careers, be kind of receptive to setting that up. So I understand that 100%. I also understand, like, you know, leaving somewhere, like, I left one school to go to another one because the system and the way we played at the first school, I didn't think would help me project and kind of round out my skill set. And I think that's what you're talking about, right? What we're saying is if you join a if you join a Euro League team that's win now, there's a role that you play and that you fit into that's going to have to help a team win. When in fact, that's not necessarily the role that an NBA team is going to ask you to undertake when you become the face of their franchise and playing on a team like the Mets gives you more experience in that particular role. Am I reading that role? Absolutely. I mean, the ACB is the greatest, I mean, I can't speak to the history, but generally, the Spanish League is the best National League outside the NBA. The Euro League of all of Europe is sort of the second best competition. But if you play in the Spanish League, you're going to have to be able to hold your game up. Otherwise, you're not going to play.

Well, and what ways has this, when I hear you talk about this, Brian, what ways is this experience helped Wimby? And which ways you think that it might hinder him in ways, right? Because he's not getting the competition. that Luca got, right? He isn't getting the championship experience. And I guess that would, like you said, I mean, you knock on him. But what are the, what's helping him about this experience and what might give him some? Yeah. So he's playing pick and roll basketball.

They're running some pick and roll stuff as we see every single night in the NBA that you don't always see over there. The biggest difference between European basketball and American basketball is the quality of the guards, quite frankly. Okay, so like I saw him play a game against Asvel, which is Tony Parker's team. And Tony Parker's team is the best team in France or one of the best teams in France. They do play in the Euro League. Right before they played against Wenban Yamma's team, they had just been in Istanbul to play

Buzikas, who is one of the best teams in the world. And their guard, and by the way, the best guard on the floor that night is Nando de Kolo. Nando de Kolo is like a difference-making player. Nando-de-Colo couldn't stay on the court in the NBA. He was like a third team guard in the NBA for a while. And the level of guard play is vastly different. So when you play with NBA-level guards, these dudes are the best in the world. Our big men, unfortunately, do not compare with the quality of the international big men.

We are getting beat by the bigs. We are not getting beat by the guards in the wings. So playing with those NBA guards, his start, Guard and guard is Tremont Waters, who play with the Celtics on a two-way last couple of years. Tremont Waters is not able to crack an NBA rotation, but he knows how to play NBA-style basketball. He is skilled at that. And also, he's their second-leaning score. The guy can play.

And the guy dominates in the French League. He puts up big numbers. He couldn't get on the court in the NBA. But at least he plays with him, and they run some pick-and-roll plays. The other thing is his coach is this guy named Vincet Colet. He is the Greg Popovich of France. He has won that French League five times, just like Poppe has five NBA titles. He has been their national team coach for 12 years.

The French national team is very good. You may remember, they beat the U.S. and the Olympics, ending their super long winning streak in the Olympics in Tokyo. And then they had a rematch in the final, and KD basically carried the U.S. to the win. the French finished second they finished I think they finished third in the last World Cup they are very good Colet is an excellent coach I've gotten to sit with him

he is extremely smart and I asked him I said how is it different when you the way you're coaching Victor is to the way because most of the great French players that have come over to the U.S., Calais is coached either in the French League or with the French national team so he is coached

Gobert he has coached like he had Nick Batum and like 2006 or seven, where Batum was the 18-year-old phenom. Remember, Batum, Batum's made $200 million. He's one of the best French players after Tony Parker and Gobert. Dick Batum is right there. He's been in the league a long time. And he said, when I've had Batum in 2007, 8, and he was 18 years old. And he took two bad shots in a row or three. He was on the bench. Now, if Victor takes two or three bad shots in a row, I say, okay, keep going. That's the thing.

But he's also hard on him. I'll never get this access to Victor again because either he will not be a superstar and we won't want the access, or he will be such a superstar that there will be a whole apparatus around him to prevent. I mean, I rode in cars with him, walked in his neighborhood with him, we sat at lunch and all that stuff. And I got to see practice. Colet let us see practice. Okay, I got to watch him go through practice. And I watched Calais coach him. And I watched kind of the things that he's trying to make him do.

I mean, like Victor, like so many young people, he wants to play outside. If he watched him play in the, in those games of Vegas that were on national TV, guys dribbled between his legs, putting up three-pointers. And he can do that, right? He's super skilled like that. But Colet is like on him, like, okay, but you are seven foot five. By the way, they list him at like 7-2 or 7-3. First off, in Europe, they list guys' measurements without their shoes.

Unlike the U.S., we list him with shoes. And the other thing is, I don't think he's crazy about everybody knowing exactly how tall he is. But the truth is he's 7-5. So he's 7-5, and, you know, Kaleigh is basically saying your value of being 7-foot-5 is closer to the basket. Every step closer to the basket, your 7 foot 5 matters more. I know that this sounds very basic, of course. But if Wemba Jama was at a college in the U.S., and, like, he could transfer at any moment or shut it down at any moment,

I'm not sure a coach could push him to do that. Well, this coach does. This coach does push him to do that. So I'm not saying it is freakish to see how thin he is. His hips. I'll bet. I don't know for sure. I'm not a tailor.

I'll bet he has a 28-inch waist, give or take, maybe even less. Okay? Wow. And he is 7 foot 5, okay? It is kind of freakish to see how narrow his hips are for what he's going to be going into in the NBA. He is going to get pushed around. And you may have seen that footage that went viral maybe about three, four weeks ago, where they were playing in a game.

He was playing for the French national team at that time. and some big dude from the Czech Republic who I think was 7 foot 2 just backed him down, backed him down, pushed him out of the way and dunked on him. And I saw people said, people were like, he's got no chance. I see this Wembeyanama stuff.

He's got no chance. He'll get pushed around. And I'm like, yeah, he will absolutely get pushed around. And by the way, in that game, he had 22 and 17. Right. You know, when you see Wembeyanama, if you haven't seen him and when you see him play, you will be like, oh my God,

there is no way this guy's going to compete with that size in the NBA. And absolutely correct. He will get bully balled, but he will also kick your ass with some of the stuff that he can do at that size. And that is what I suspect you're going to see in the NBA. Man, I have so many questions, so many,

but I'll just start here. With what, I mean, with that type of access to him, who is he? Like, is he, is he this 19-year-old, matured professional who understands like the the weight of of of of kind of who he is what he's about to be and what's about to be asked of him is he a 19 year old that's just super blessed and he's still kind of young and enjoying the ride like how much of it is he aware of do you i hopefully you understand what i'm trying to say like what kind of sense did you get for who he is and what makes him take

super smart learn to read at age three okay um graduated high school a year early you know, one of the things that I've come to realize is when you have incredibly special athletes that are at the highest of the high level, you start to see some amazing things about why they separate from the rest. So, for example, LeBron James, LeBron James is ambidextrous. After all that in his, you know, he's born with this incredible body, right? And he's been born with this incredible, I know, he's got this incredible memory. And he's got this incredible work ethic and he's also ambidextrous. You know, you got to be kidding me. Well, that's how you end up being the greatest scorer in the history of the game is all these things. So when Benyama was born

January 4th, the difference between being born December 30th and January 4th, December 30th is actually LeBron's birthday, is a big difference in Europe because it changes when you can start school. So Victor was able to start school a little bit earlier. And him being able to start school a little bit earlier made it so that he was always with older kids and he was able to compete with older kids so when he was younger and learning the game while he was taller than everybody he was also he also got the advantages i think um malcolm gladwell did this story about how how all like all the great hockey players from canada not all of them many of them were born in january because if you were born in january you have certain advantages about how the calendar falls

well he had an advantage right off the bat that he was born just the beginning of the year so he just got that thing. So he was able to be ahead in school the whole time. He was able to graduate school year early. Obviously, if you're that smart, you know, it's going to translate. When he was 14 years old, he had an opportunity to go to Spain to go play with, I think it was Barcelona, but it might have been Madrid. I can't remember off top of my head.

They wanted him because, you know, he was very, very talented, obviously, and very, very tall. By the way, he was not great. I've seen footage of him as a 9, 10, 11 year old. He threw the ball all over the place. He was not ahead of his time. He was always a player that he was teams taken because he was of great size and great coordination. He wasn't like going with 20 and 10 in games when he was 13. But when he was 14 years old, he had a choice to go to Spain and he elected not to.

But what he did do is he joined this club in Paris away from home. He's from Versailles, Palace of Versailles, Louis XIV. It's a suburb of Paris, like 45 minutes away from town. He did move away from home and live in a dorm room. I went to his dorm room. I saw his dorm room that he lived in. They had the special order of bed for him because he was so tall. So from age 14 onward, he was living by himself.

Now, mom and dad were 45 minutes down the road, and mom and dad were definitely involved in his life, but he was still on his own. And he lived with this club in this door. and he went to a high school that was nearby. And he got a lot of help there. He needed to eat. The people, the nutritionist that he was working with said,

you need eat five times a day. So they got this little fridge for him, this one athletic director, I don't even know the exact, kept his food in his fridge, and he would go over there in between classes because you obviously don't eat five times a day when you're a regular kid in high school.

He'd once at lunch, and he would go get food because they tried to have him keep him, his body up with his growth, right? And so he had sort of special treatment from that age onward. And he went through school. And he went in the summers and played with various clubs. I mean, he went and got his teeth kicked in quite a few times.

He didn't dominate all the way up. And he went and spent three weeks over one summer with Holger, Dirk's coach, in Germany. And Holger worked with him and taught him some things. And one of the things he said was, don't listen to anybody that says you have to pile on weight. Do not eat these protein shakes. Do not eat these raw eggs. I don't care.

People are going to say, you're going to gain weight, but you do not need to pile on the pounds. You'll get ruined. And so that's why you're not going to see him talking about, you know, he's going to have to gain weight, obviously, but you're not going to see him talking about adding a ton of weight. And so he had a choice.

again, he did go to Leone, which is where Asvel is, which is about a two-hour train ride from Paris and did play one year. And he came back for this year. But he's basically wanted to do everything he can to develop to get to the NBA. His English is spectacular. He basically taught himself English. He reads, he's one of his most proud things he's done in the last year is he read his first book in English, which I think was one of the Game of Thrones novels.

he learned English by watching some Netflix, but primarily he had to learn English because when you go play international competitions, Rajai, you know this, the language of basketball is English. So when he's in Spain playing, to communicate with them, he had to speak English.

They spoke English to him. When he's in Germany playing, he has to learn English. And some of the coaches he was working with spoke English. So even now, his team, which is a team in France, which most of the players are French, the instruction from the coach a lot of times comes in English because there's, you know, a couple Americans on the team and other players who are not French, who don't speak French, who speak English. And so his English is excellent. And he's, he's, he really wants to, he's look, he's very much looking forward to coming to the United States.

He's very anxious to do it. Um, he's last summer. He came over and he went on vacation. in San Diego for a few days. And then he came to Dallas. And for three weeks in Dallas, he spent time working out, working out with some NBA players,

but working out in Dallas. And he was blown away. I know this sounds cliche, but he's blown away by how everything in Texas is huge. The highways are huge, the parking lot of huge, cars. I was sitting with him in this range rover.

It wasn't a full-size rangeover. It was kind of like the one down. I just felt so bad for him because his feet, he was just so crunched up in that car, even though it was basically in the, he was basically sitting in the back seat. And I was like,

Victor, when you get to the U.S., you've got to go see about some of these, I was like, escalade. I was like, you've got to go check out. I was like, Tahoe, buddy. Find a car that you can fit in. But, you know, he's looking forward to going,

you know, getting big cars in the U.S. too. So he's very prepared for all of that, even though he is also very proud to be French. And he is very proud that he has stayed in France and he is of France. But he also recognizes the best basketballs in the U.S. and that's where he wants to be. And he's been getting ready for that for years now. Get off the bench and bet the NBA with Fandul.

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and it's fantastic. You're feeling good. And after all those long days of classes in practice, and don't forget about those ramen noodle dinners as you pull an all night or trying to finish that astronomy paper, hey, now just maybe, you'll get 10 minutes of playing time off the bench as your team gets bounced in the sweet 16.

But at least the scout see you on TV. No more having to show your student ID to get free chips at the school store. So now you declare yourself for the draft. You're so excited about it until they don't call your name. But if you go overseas after a decade in the EuroLeague, oh my God, you'll finally get your minimum G League contract. And when you do that, if you give enough high fives and fill those jugs of water, you'll get put in the rotation, where you'll be the backup center to the backup center,

and boy, is that cool, you'll get to set screens and practice for the backup to the backup point guard who never went to college. He's actually the coach's stepson. All these hoopers wanted to make money at high school. Not me. I learned, okay? I was an RA. You know how many kids I wrote up? More than the points that I scored. No, I never dropped 30 points, but my five rebounds, and I kept me satisfied. When an agent walks up to me and says, hey, you know what a max deal is? No, I don't know what it is, but I bet you I'll get picked up first when I play at the YMCA. My name is Victor Wimba, and I approve for this message. We've referenced LeBron a few times in this podcast, and, you know, especially at the top when we're talking about, you know,

Wembe being the most highly sought after prospect since LeBron. You cover LeBron all the way through high school and you are, you know, have the inside track cover in Wemby at this point. What are the biggest differences and similarities in their assent as prep stars coming into the league? First off, they're both super highly competitive. I mean, I watched footage of Wembe when he was nine. I can't believe I said that, but Gavoni, Jonathan Gavoni, he finds this stuff and he found footage. We watched him as a nine-year-old taking on 11-year-olds. And he was getting worked over, by the way, in this particular footage.

and every time I gave him a basket, he would grab the ball and slam it on the ground. He was very upset. And when you, there's a really important game that he played in 2021. He played a game in, I believe it was Latvia. It was the world under 19 world championship. The French played the Americans,

just like they would play the Americans the same summer in the gold medal game in the Olympics. They played in the gold medal game in the world championship. ships and he fouled out with like a minute and a half left. Chet Holmgren was playing for the U.S. team. Jaden Ivy was dominating. He played great in that gold medal game.

Chet really didn't guard him, by the way. Kenneth Lofton, who's with the Grizzlies G-League team, is like a 6-6 bowling ball. He guarded him to kind of body him. But anyway, when he got ejected, there was no fans because it was still COVID measures. he basically walked around the gym so angry that he had fouled out. You bring up that game and his face turns dark. And that's how LeBron was.

LeBron was exactly that type of competitive person. And LeBron was also extremely gifted. And from age 14 on was basically in what we have as a development system. He was going to the top camps in the summer. He was playing for the top AAU teams. There's a massive difference. between them. The big difference is that Wembenyama is way more, his skills are way more developed. You look at the way his shot is, his shot is textbook. You look at, like he's being coached by

one of the best coaches in Europe, like on a daily basis. No offense to LeBron's coaches, he had good coaches. He didn't get the skill development training that he has had in France. He has been a part of a professional team basically for years now. LeBron didn't have a nutritionist when he was 15. LeBron had trainers, but the trainer that he has, like, has a master's degree. And, like, is at the cutting edge of doing training and preparation and, like, recovery. LeBron didn't have any of that. When LeBron came into the league, his fundamentals on his jump shot were awful.

He would lean to one side and fade when he shot, which is why he was a real shaky shooter coming into the league. Wembeyanama's shot is technically perfect. but LeBron had an NBA body. LeBron walked into the NBA at 240 pounds. He's played most of his career above 260. And his rookie year, I'm pretty sure only one player physically intimidated him that, like, guarded him. I mean, I'm sure Shaq is physically intimidating.

And that was Ron Arthest. Ron Arthest, and he played him twice in the first 10 games, Cavs, Pacers, and our test just bullied him with his size and strength. I promise you, LeBron had never played a player as strong as Ron our test. And that was, and, you know, sometimes he would come across the lane and get hit with hard picks. Like, I know that when, like, he played the Pistons, I think Ben Wallace put him on his backside once or twice. But for the most part, LeBron was either equal physically or stronger than the man he was going up against on a night-in-night-out basis at age 18. Victor is not going to be that way. Victor does not have an NBA body.

He has some of the greatest height in history of the world. He does not have an NBA body. So where LeBron was able to physically compete, Victor will not be. But where LeBron was behind in skills, I believe Victor will surpass him. I shouldn't say behind in skills, behind in skill development. Victor, I think, will outshine him at the same age. When you talk about just with LeBron and Wembe, and I know that they had like a brief exchange in Vegas, but how much of a, is there going to be a mentorship role that LeBron carries?

Is there going to be, or is it going to be kind of like a wait and see like how are, how was there, how was LeBron going to just take on that dynamic? I know in past years, you know, with, with Zion, he says, you know, Zion has my number if he needs it or other guys of that nature. How was, how do, what's your sense of how he would approach a guy like Wimby, who is, there are so, so many similarities? I actually wish Zion and LeBron had linked up because one of the things that LeBron has developed as much as anybody is caring for your body for the long term. That's something that he can give advice on that, you know, players, when you talk to players who play with him, that's one of the things that they have said for a decade plus style is how they have learned from him the way he takes care of his body, not just in the season, but also outside the season. I don't get the impression that Victor's looking for that. they are both in the Nike stable. Victor has a Nike deal.

It's a short-term Nike deal. I don't exactly. I think it might be a three-year deal. I think he might be in year two, but I'm not 100% sure of that. But he does have a Nike deal. So obviously, there would be a connection there. I think Victor,

Victor is a bit of a loner. I mean, when I talk to his teammates, part of reporting out a story like this is you talk to his teammates. And I talked to his teammates that he had both this year, and that he had last year when he was at Asvel.

I remember when I told him about that, he looked to be funny. He was like, you talk to my teammates? I was like, yeah, man, that's what we do. He doesn't go out with his teammates a lot. Like, I talked to one of his teammates last year, and he told me that he went out with a team twice, and they were both after they won championships,

after they won the French League, and after they won the League Cup. They partied, and he went out with them. I talked to one of his teammates this year, and he told me that he does, he has organized some team events, but they've been like brunches. Like he's not going out to, you know, out to the clubs, you know, in the evenings with his, with his team. So I think he's, he's, he's extremely focused on the game. He is definitely

invested in the game. His, his trainer and his agent wanted to get 11 hours of sleep a day, which is wild, but they're on him about that. And he also goes through several hours of training in a day, like physical training. The 11 hours, though, because I did find that really interesting. Like, is that to maximize more height, or is that just general recovery trying to be injury preventative? Like, what it was, is there a method behind it or it's just what they want? I'm sure. There must be, Rajah, there must be some study behind it or whatever, but like, this was non-negotiable with these guys. Like, they would argue that him getting that, that amount of sleep every day is almost the most important thing he could do. And I mean, I don't want to

speak for them, but the way they talked about this is not just like, yeah, everybody should get, you know, eight ounces of milk and brush their teeth three times a day. No, they were not screwing around with this and they hold him to it. And they wanted to take a, like, they were rushing us, you know, at one point, you know, we had some time with him and they were rushing us along. Like, you know, they were like, let's get this interview over with. Not because he had to let go to a photo shoot, because they wanted him to go take a nap. They were like, Victor, needs to be done by X time because that is his nap time. And it wasn't like Victor was like yawning.

They were like Victor has to get back there and take a nap. You know like I know that once you get, okay, like you can control that situation to some degree where you're at prior to being on the NBA's timetable. But once you get here, it's not always as easy as that. Granted, we have a lot of downtime. And you can kind of make your day. And obviously they'll accommodate for their star in a way

that they may not for their role player, but still there's more stuff tugging at you. There's less control by the individual camp and their medical team is there is responsibility to the NBA franchise. How do you see them navigating that? Is that going to be something hard for them? Sure, but I mean, I don't want to put words in their mouth,

but I think they intend to have his therapist come. I don't know that for 100% certain. And I know that he is going to have, I mean, this is what he's told me, he's going to have one of his parents with him at all times. Right. And it's funny, when you talk to him about which teams he might be interested in playing for, he's already aware of which cities have nonstop flights to Paris.

Again, not that he would say, oh, I'm not playing in so-and-so because, you know, I have to connect in Atlanta. I mean, but, but, you know, access for his, you know, family and connections to get there is also something that they've looked at, you know. There was one team in particular that I wasn't sure if he was going to like, like, and we talked about it. And one of the things that was mentioned is there's a nonstop. It's a nonstop. They can get there relatively easily.

So I think he's intending to have, like, support with him to hold him to that. Now, look, do I honestly believe he's getting 11 hours of sleep every day? I mean, I don't know, man. But what I would say is that he is super. super, super focused on basketball. Like, this is what he, like, you know, you don't always see this with, with I guess he's 19 now, you don't always see us with 19 year olds. Even the most dedicated 19 year olds, you don't see it.

So he is, and like he has been this way for a while. Again, he has basically been a level of a pro player since he was 14. When he elected to move and join this club, and I'm not saying he never had any fun in the dorm with his friends. I mean, he was with a bunch of other guys who were his age. I'm sure they had, you know, good time. I'm sure he's had fun on road trips. But, you know, he is, from what I can tell, having spent a week there,

having talked to him, having talked to people about him, there's the other thing. Like, when his coach, you know, like, one of the things that he says is he doesn't, he's not on his phone that much. And I'm like, and he likes to draw, okay? And I'm like, okay, this is what you're telling the reporter. This isn't, you know, a 19-year-old is not telling me that he's not on his phone, right? So my job is to, not that I'm trying to impeach him, but like, no, I go check it out.

I talk to his other teammates or I talk to his coaches. And they're like, no, I swear to God, will be on the train. He'll pull out a book and he'll be reading a book. And, you know, he tells me he likes to draw. I talk to his agent and his agent says, because Buna and Jai lives in Dallas, he came and stayed with him. And he goes, one of the first places we went to, he's like, I need some drawing supplies. and I don't know, they went to Michael, I don't know where you go to get drawing supplies.

I don't either. Right? Right, okay. Right. So Jonathan Gavoni, who was with me on the story, asked me who his favorite artist was because he said he was into art. And he brought up this artist.

And Jonathan and I looked at each other. We didn't know who it was. In other words, like if you say to me, who's your favorite composer, and I say Mozart, you know, it's kind of easy to say, right? Who's your favorite artist? And I say, oh, it's Monet. He like, and we did look it up, and I don't remember it now.

And maybe you guys would know who it is, because I just not educated that way. But it happened to be a guy who was an American graffiti artist, who also was popular in France. And so in other words, he didn't just give an answer, you know, in other words, when I've checked out this stuff that I hear about him, I haven't disproven anything yet. I haven't like checked with somebody and I'm not just yeah I'm not just taking the surface level I'm going to the next level you know okay and like you know I talked to

a player on his former team you know where it actually didn't really work out and he's like yeah you know we didn't really get along with the coach the coach is T.J. Parker Tony Parker's brother they weren't on the greatest terms that's true

but I'm like well what about does he party does you know he's like no no that you mean he everything I've checked out with this guy backs up. And so look, he may come to the NBA and fall flat on his face, but kind of like with LeBron, the guy, like, the thing about LeBron is every stage he got to, he exceeded expectations.

And I remember, you know, they play O'Kill Academy on December 2nd, 2009, or 2002. And it's on national TV. The ESPN decides to televise this game. And I was like, man, this is a risk. It was only the second or third game of the season. You know, if he has a bad night, you know, I wasn't sure how it was going to go. I mean, it was kind of a risk.

I mean, they're promoting the game on ESPN throughout the day. They send in Dick Vital and, you know, and Bill Walton to call the game. And LeBron is so incredible that night that I think it made him $50 million because Nike and Adidas and Reebok already wanted him. and then when he was a star on national television, and then we had the highlights. Like, again, in 2003, not all the games were being streamed online, you know? Like, now we had national television highlights

of him, you know, making these plays. And Yo Kilt was the number one team in the country, you know, whatever ranking it was. And they slapped them, okay? And I think LeBron made $15 million that night, 5-0. Now, maybe it was $100 million, maybe it was 20, I don't know. But before then,

the shoe company people I was talking, to we're talking about like a, you know, a $20 or $30 million deal. He ends up getting $90. Okay. So Victor comes over to Vegas in the fall, right? His parents were like, no way. We are not doing this. You know, Victor, you should not do this. Other people in the basketball world telling his agents, what the hell are you doing? He's going to be the number one pick. Why would you bring him over to fly to 11 hours to Vegas? By the way, play NBA rules. which he's not used to. And they're like, no, he wants to do it,

and we think it's going to be good for him. The dude goes for 37 and 36 and two games, nailing threes. You know, one game shoots a bunch of threes. The next game plays inside. I think he might make $100 million off that game. Maybe more. Okay?

And because there is a lineup of people who are trying to sign this guy. He could have 10 endorsement deals, but I think he's kind of waiting to see, fit, but he might make $100 million off that. And that reminds me of the LeBron move in 2019 years later. Actually, it was 20 years later because LeBronz was in the December of 2002. This was in, I think October of 22.

It's kind of the same thing. And so, like, his ability to deliver under pressure and to live up to what you hear about, I went and checked it out. I heard about it. I went and checked it out. And I'm telling you, I can't. I've yet to find something that doesn't make sense. We have two Lakers fans as our producers.

So I'll be remiss if I didn't ask this question. We all saw what happened during the trade deadline with the Lakers. And how they've kind of revamped their team getting Vanderbilt and getting Rui and getting a lot of guys around him. Maybe it won't work this season, but maybe next season. But the question is, what did the trade deadline and the Lakers' performance in the backstretch of this season doing for LeBron's confidence into the Lakers front office and how will that bode well going in the future? How did that affect how he feels about his relationship with the Lakers at this point? I'm still surprised that he extended his contract

last August. He had a window to extend his contract and he did. And he took his free agency in 2023 off the table by doing that. He basically gave the Lakers a president. of time. Don't even worry about me. I'm committed. And the day he signed, I reached out to Rich Paul, and I'm like, why, why? Why did you do this now? And he gave me an answer and I'm not going to speak something that was off the record publicly. I didn't think that the reasoning that I was given was adequate to have him have signed it. And Polinka later, Rob Polenko, the GM, later kind of implied that there was sort of an understanding that if LeBron commits the Lake will commit as far as trading the future pick.

But the team that they put on the floor to start the season was an unacceptable team. And I just didn't believe in it. I didn't believe in the philosophy surrounding it. I was flabbergasted it. They started Westbrook and started him. I know it was a short thing, but, you know, they got off to a ridiculous start. They were 0.5 out of the gates with Westbrook starting. And they started off 2 and 10.

And those games, like I think eight of them were in L.A. I think one of their road games was against the Clippers. and so here they have this stretch where they play eight of their first 12 basically in their building and they go two and ten and they're basically still crawling out of that that hole that I think you know as we're doing this or one game under 500 if they had gone and they couldn't have with that with this roster so I'm not even saying what if their roster was completely ill-equipped had they gone six and six they would be in fourth place right now we'd have a completely different discussion about where the Lakers are I thought that LeBron signing that extension and keeping

the Lakers out of the pressure of putting a better team on the court to start the year was a mistake. He was a mistake by LeBron to give him that when he did, and I think it was a mistake for the Lakers to put that roster out. It was a mistake to bring Russell Westbrook back. Now, if Rob Polinka was here, he would probably say, well, the trade that we made in February was not available to us in August, and it took that long before we could make that trade. And that is a reasonable thing to say. but they also lived in a stress-free world in terms of LeBron. So that is just, those are two facts.

Saying that, I think, as damaging as the Westbrook trade was, what they got in return for trading him away was excellent, the value that they got in that trade. And now they have a roster that, in my mind, is the top five roster in the Western Conference. The problem is LeBron is hurt, and LeBron might have gotten hurt because he played too many minutes, I don't know the answer to that.

I know he was playing through some injuries when he hurt his foot. I don't know. But I think he felt that he had to play so many minutes because the team was poor. And so I will never know if that was an issue. And I will say that this Western Conference this year is just not good. We shouldn't look at the competitiveness of it and say, oh, what a great year. It's competitive because all the teams are deeply flawed. And you're looking at this, you know, look, and if the Warriors put it all together and Wiggins comes back, they may be the same team they were last year and they may win the West.

It may not even be that big of a deal. And I don't know what's going to happen with Durant and the Suns. Obviously, if Durant's playing full power, they may be better. But as of right now, there's no team in the West that this healthy Lakers team wouldn't think they'd have a chance against. And I'm afraid that at the end of the season, the Lakers are going to get there and they're going to say, this was a year we could have won the West. if we had not had this team at the start of the season, if we had gotten rid of Westbrook in the off-season, and if LeBron had stayed healthy,

which is a huge if this weakness in the West we could have taken advantage of, and maybe we lost the LeBron's season here. I don't know that. Maybe LeBron will come back and the Lakers will put it together, but I'm sure that there's some missed, there's some feel of a missed opportunity, because if you look at the team the way they have it now,

And this Western Conference, I can't rule it out if they were 100% healthy. I wouldn't pick them, but I couldn't rule it out. We'll see what happens, man. Before we get you out of here, you're technically on our Thursday show. So every Thursday we do a segment called Ruin of the Week where we shout out a person, organization or entity that just won the week. I'll start off, go with Ron, and then we'll end with you, Brian. I'm going to go with Jimmy G.

You know, everybody knows on this podcast, I'm a big Raiders fan, and I was heartbroken last episode when I realized we, couldn't get Lamar Jackson, but I'm fine with Jimmy G. And honestly, I have talked myself into Jimmy G being Rich Gannon 2.0. I know that sounds crazy and I know that's wild. But I think that he will be a better quarterback for our team than Derek Carr. I think that we will be able to get to the postseason. So I'm going to go with Jimmy G as my ruin of the week.

Rah, who is your room for the week? His way say, Jimmy G. Oh, God, dog. Let's see. Hey, honestly, you messed me up with that. I mean, you wasn't ready. I was not ready for Jimmy G. No, my real one of the week will be Janice Ante Dekumpo and the Milwaukee Bucks,

who were the first team in the NBA this year to reach 50 wins. I do think there's such a thing as kind of hitting your stride. I watched them last night just as a team, and I know that it's a real one, but I watched them last night, man. And, you know, the amount of guys that they have that can get up and, like, jam the ball and play really tough-nosed defense on perimeter ball handlers, getting over ball screens. Like they have a wealth of those.

They have size around the rim. Like they just, for me, they look really good. I think Yannis is closing the gap and making a real push for that MVP. I lobbied for him last pot. I think real one of the week, Janice and the bucks. Real talk, Raja, the bucks are the best team.

I don't know if you're going to win it. Straight up. Straight up. My real one of the week is Joel Embed. Now, I'm not saying that Joe, now listen, I voted for Joel for rookie the year when they played 32 games. I voted for him for MVP last year.

Okay? It's not because I have anything against Yokic, it's because I'm a big believer in this guy. Love the way he plays the game. I know he's had some injuries. I know he's some eyes come up short at the end. I love Joelle and Beade's game. I love the way he approaches the game. The dude is absolutely bawling out of his mind right now.

Okay? And he has got an opportunity because the nuggets, because three, four weeks ago, Yokch had the MVP locked down, okay? And I'm not saying that because I'm just talking out of the side of my neck. We do a straw poll at ESPN with the actual voters. Timbantams does it. Yokic had as big of a lead as anybody has had in like the eight years he's been doing it at that point in the season. We don't vote on February 17th or whatever it came out.

We vote on April 15th. But he had it locked down. Okay. And no matter what anybody wants to say, Yokch was the MVP. And by the way, in that straw poll, I voted for Janus. And again, not anything else. that's Yokic, just because I value what Yonis does at both ends, okay? The door is now open for Embedd to win the MVP.

And of course, he wants to win the title more. He really wants that MVP, man. He wants that MVP, okay? And I don't blame him, all right? Yonah has two. Yonis has two. They can both win it. Indeed, wants it MVP. And he's got this stretch of game.

He's been awesome in this recent stretch. He's got a stretch of games coming up. I think he's won player of the month at the Eastern Conference, which is the dominant conference this year, okay? The three best teams in the league are in the East. Doesn't mean that the Warriors won't put it all together, but the three best teams for the last five months are on the Eastern Conference. He has been Eastern Conference player of the month for the last two months.

He is just coming off another Player of the Week award that he just won. A week from Monday, okay, March 27. No, it's a long time from now. He is playing in Denver against Yokic. Okay? Yokich came in to Philly about a month ago and Embed laid the wood. He got manhandled. You can say he got manhandled.

And I am not going to sit here and tell you that one game is going to determine the MVP. I have been an MVP voter for decades now. I am getting old. This is my 20th year covering the NBA. I got gray hairs coming in over here. The other day I was talking to Grant Hill. And he goes, well, you know, you've been around the league about as long as I have. and it kind of messed me up

because I watched Grand Hill when I was in grade school. But it hurt. It hurt when he said that. He was trying to be nice, but it hurt. That game, a week from Monday, Embed, Joker, I don't know where those two teams

are going to be when we get to that point. I don't know where they're going to be at the end of the season. Joel Embed is making his move. And they got a tough road trip. I think it's the end of a four-game road trip. I don't even know where the Sixers are going to be as an organization at that point.

Watch out for that man. making a run. And I'm sitting here telling you, I had Janice on my top line a month ago. I'm sitting here telling you, I'm watching Joe L&B. There you go. I'm not mad at that. There we go. Thanks so much, Brian, for coming on, man. I really appreciate it. You could catch him on the Hoop Collective Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays. We can get your podcast. And you can check out real ones every Mondays and Thursdays. We will see you guys next week. Talk soon. Hala.