The Ringer NBA Show - Buy the Hype or Bet the Under? Real Ones Team Totals for the 2025-26 Season

Episode Date: July 12, 2025

Logan and Howard play expert gamblers in predicting which teams will hit their over/unders for the 2025-26 season. Will the Hawks be soaring over 46.5 wins with their new additions and the East being seemingly wide open? Can Denver get back into title contention with 53.5 wins? What will it take for the Lakers to hit their o/u 48.5? Can Philly add 20 more wins for their abysmal 24-25 injury-filled campaign, assuming their stars are healthy? 0:00: Intro 0:30 Show Start 6:22 NBA Futures Over/Under Start Hosts: Logan Murdock and Howard Beck Audio/Producer: Clifford Augustin Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Hit the mailbag! ⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠ The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit ⁠⁠www.rg-help.com⁠⁠ to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It was good. Real ones, Logan Murdoch here. I am joined today by Howard Mother Effing Beck. We do the over unders for every team that you can imagine in the NBA. Not all 30 teams, but every team that you can imagine. We're joined also by Cliff Augustine, who helped us go through the discussion of over, under. Great show for you guys today. Real ones next. Play the theme music. It's popping. Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Howard Beck there. Raja is. probably still at the rental car lot in Atlanta airport. Just we're going to, okay,

first of all, I can't, I just, I can't. We're going to talk, we're going to give the over-unders on all of the teams that Cliff in a second will give us when he comes in his little bubble. But all that to say,

Rajabelle, man. Rajabelle. You know, you know, Logan, we try to plan this show. We send out texts. We send out confirmations. We'll make sure everybody's on the same page. Rajah throws us a curveball. Hey, I'm going to be on the road. It's all right. It's all right. We can push back a little bit. Give you time to get on the ground.

Get your hotel. It's good. It's fine. What was it? Like an hour before we're coming on? The hour before the pod, yes. And the photo is, the photo's troubling. The photo's troubling. It's the line. It's a big line. But what's the first thing, Logan, that you and I would think as frequent travelers, seeing our buddy Raja, who's been doing this a while? He's got kids.

He's a player. He's been traveled for a long time. He's got kids. He's got recruiting trips. Look at this picture that he sends us, ladies and gentlemen. There you go. For those who are watching us. Just a rookie mistake, man.

Just like he didn't, he didn't join a rewards program. How? How? How? What are we doing? Roger? How? How are you not?

No, we've talked about this on this podcast before. We have talked about this on this podcast before me and him. And I think me, all three of us offline, the adjustment that professional athletes have to make going back to real life. Yes. Because most of Raj's life, or at least professional life, was he's going on a PJ, bro. Or he's going on a charter. and then they're going to go on a bus

and then they're going to go to the hotel that they get their keys handed to them and then they're going to go play an arena and they're going to go to another city and do the whole rigamaru all over again but he's been a civilian for how long now it's been a while 14 years

yeah yeah by now and like how many recruiting trips with his kids how many AAU tournaments how many camps and everything else how many family vacations how do you not have how do you how are you not in every reward program?

You got to skip the line. You don't ever. People of the world, our listeners, don't know, don't get in the line. No, you get in the line.

Howard. Howard. This is like, don't give them the game because it's going to fuck it up for us on the other end because I remember a certain airport program that we used to say

on podcasts, I'm not going to say right now because I'm not going to put everybody up on game because I want to make sure that this line is cool. But everybody in the journalism world thought they was cool because they was like, oh, when I go to the airport, I do this, not knowing that the podcast space was going to blow up and that it was going to blow up the secret. So actually, don't give them the secret.

Give Roger the secret so he can be on time for this damn podcast that he's not going to be on today. But not everybody else. Okay. All right. Let's reset here. Okay. Four minutes and no basketball talk.

Let's get back. Let's lock back in. We have our guy, producer Cliff, who is listening to RG3 highlights on his phone, apparently. I was closing out. No, I literally opened my phone up to some, I unlocked my phone up to Twitter, and it had some stupid video. Okay. All right. Exited out of it, so. Okay.

Okay. All right. We're going to, we're going to, what are we going to do today, Cliff? What are we, what are, what are, what are, what are, what are, what are, what are, what are, what are, what are. future's overunders, baby. Come on, man. You got to know what it is, bro. We get excited. Next NBA season's coming up. Because if there's anything I'm known for, it's gambling odds.

Presented by Fandual. I just want to be clear before we jump into this. I know Jack about gambling odds. Do not take anything I say as actual gambling advice, please. But overunders are a good guideline to like kind of assess. Howard, overrunners are the easiest thing, Bob. All you got to do is say, yes or no. Yeah, no, that part of the state, you start doing like plus 5,000 minus 300, whatever.

I got no idea what you're talking. You might as well be like talking a foreign language. Like, I lost me. Look, I got you. I got you, Howard. Don't worry. I'm the professional gambler slash non-gambler here, so I got you. Anything y'all need, I got you.

Y'all know that. Appreciate him. Yeah, Cliff's still taking them trips to Atlantic City. Yeah, you've been to Atlantic City recently years, not? Absolutely not. Okay. there's a reason why I don't be there. Shout to everybody from Lenoxy.

I know some folks from out there, so shout to the Atlantic City. Yeah. I'm good out there, but I celebrated a birthday out there one year, and it got dicey. Ooh. Oh, God. Oh, God. I seen it once on a Nets preseason trip way back in, like, 2012. And we were in and out quick, and I was like, I don't think I need to see this place again.

Maybe it's come a long way to sit. That was a long time ago. It's come a long way, but not in the way that we would hope for it. Okay. Howard, it's coming along way. I still don't want to go back. It's coming a long way in the wrong direction. Split that way.

Oh, all right. It's gone a long way. Guess the nets won't be going back for another preseason. Nah, no. That's what gladly just remain in New York. They will not be in Jersey anytime soon. All right. Y'all want to do this first over under or what?

Let's get us. You don't sound excited, man. Do you want every team? Like, man, do we? you, man. Do you. All right. All right. All right. Let's randomize. Let's randomize. Let's randomize. All right. Let's start off with speaking of New York. Let's start off with the Brooklyn Nets, baby. Oh, man. Oh, shit. Over under 20 and a half wins for the season. Minus 1.20.

Yeah. What are you looking? How are we feeling? The Brooklyn Nets, this offseason acquired Michael Porter Jr. from the Denver Nuggets for Ford Cameron Johnson. They got Terrence Mann as well. They got Drake Powell. They signed Treor, Aeson Newell as a rookie, and Tyson Etienne as a rookie. They had a bunch of rookies. They had a bunch of rookies. Their overhundred total is set at 20 and a half wins.

I'm pretty sure Michael Porter Jr.'s shot over under for the season is at 30 and a half per game. So there you go. Brooklyn, that's 20 and a half wins. Ooh, man. This is how you know that Vegas does a good job with this stuff. Fanduil does a good job with this stuff. Whoever does a good job with this stuff. Because like, I look at that and I think like, I really don't, I'm tempted to say under, but like the other, it's like that's the right range. Like if they, if they win 20, they've had a good season. This is like,

they took a team that was already intentionally not so great. And you, you ripped off Cam Johnson. You replaced it with Michael Porter Jr. who like, maybe you could say like talent for talent, like just different talents but like but there's no there's no there you ain't pushing anything forward here they've added no one of note nobody thought they were using all five draft picks they drafted five rookies like um i don't they have gotten to the point where a year ago i thought i get what they're trying to do and now they've gotten to the point where i'm like i have no idea what they're trying to do under you know what i just looked i was i was thinking the first

thought of my mind came to the washington wizard from two years ago and i was like did they get to like 21 wins no they got to 15 and so it's going to be a tough it's going to be a tough one they're basically the utah jaz east at this point right like there's michael porter junior in the role of lowry marking in yeah he's a bro also i'm very curious to see how michael porter junior is going to come into a team where he's expected to give veteran advice i shouldn't laugh wait you mean NBA champion michael porter junior logan what do you come on I'm not, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not talking about him. I'm talking about Curious Mike, the YouTuber.

I'm very curious to see. This is an Andre Iguada going into a young and hungry locker room. This is going to be an interesting setup, right, because they don't really matter in the New York sphere, right? They're the clippers of the East. Without the wins. Without the wins. and just overall organizational stability. But I like Jordy Fernandez as a coach.

I really like what he does. And I know that he's a type of coach where guys are going to play hard for him. And he's not going to, he's not going to take anything less than the player's best, right? And like, you know, the reason why I thought over and by over, I don't mean like 28 wins.

I mean like 21, right? Yeah. Like, yeah. You can get seven, eight wins just playing. harder than another team. Right. Like that's just that's so

that makes me tempted to do it but then I'm seeing like are they going to bring are they going to bring are they going to bring um are they going to bring Cam Thomas back? Is that is that it? How do you do you like is it? Because that's a big question here too right?

He's going to take it also a cams. A Cam Thomas. James Michael Porter Jr. Michael Porter Jr. Back court. No, I'm giving 13 wins. Fuck that. Look the optimism.

Yeah. Jordy Fernandez is the best thing they got going for them right now, that and the fact that eventually maybe they trade Nick Claxton for more stuff or I don't know, in a year, are they flipping Michael Porter Jr. for stuff? I don't know. I don't know what they're doing with Cam Thomas, but the Cam Thomas versus Michael Porter Jr. for who can take the most shots in a game in a month in a season is going to be wild. But Jordy Fernandez is a really good coach. And he did get more than anybody else or anybody expected last year out of them. They overachieved for long stretches of the season. They might

again, which does make me tempted to join you on the over impulse. But I think we're both landing on under anyway just because, like, you look at that roster and it's just an absolute mess. Question for you. You know how last year the Utah Jazz just sat like their starters? Like they sat John Collins just for any explicit injury. Do you think that the Brooklyn Nets are just going to sit Jordy Fernandez in games? You can't get fined for that.

You can get fined for sitting Lowry marketed with fake. injuries. You can't get fined for, if the coach is tanking, if the coat, you get fake injuries to the, you can't, that's outside of the purview. So yeah. Jordi Fernandez, is that carbone with a cough, you know? Like, is that, could that be a thing for next year? We have, we have talked too long about the nets. We should move on. Next. What's next? All right, what is next here? Look who I landed on. The Houston Rockets were one of Logan's favorite players. Over. 54 and a half. half at minus 128. How are we feeling about the Houston Rockets at 54 and a half. I just want to say a

quick disclaimer. Fucking hate you, Cliff. I hate you. I hate you. That being said, go ahead, Howard. You got to show. You kick it off. I was just going to say this is where we miss Raja because at some point I'm going to end up like slightly slandering Jalen Green or something and we need Raj you here to go off on me, but see, we already miss you, Raj. I love you, buddy. 54. Why do y'all make me do this?

I'm a little bullish on the rockets, to be honest with you, man. I mean, is bullish the right word? I don't know. Like, I think that on paper, Kevin Durant is amazing. Don't let anybody tell you that I said otherwise, including the man himself.

I think he's an amazing basketball player. I'm a little bullish on him just because I think Katie's a great basketball player. I want to see what he's going to be as a leader in this context, right? Because, and I know a lot of people are saying like M.A. Udoka is the dude and he's going, Kevin's never had a coach like him before. And this is going to be great for him. I do believe all of those things. But I do think that, you know, whenever Kevin has gotten challenged, he is, you know,

kind of gone the other way with it, right? Like he's gotten challenged and played hard from his, um, on the day to day and played harder, but it has definitely had long term effects. So I think that M.A. has his work cut out for him. Did they get to 57 wins?

Probably. But also there's the KD. health thing as well. There is the question of Alman Thompson. If he's going to be able to take that leap. I mean, Roger doesn't seem to think so, at least for next season.

This is like a multi-year season. thing. I don't know if he's going to turn into prime Kauai Leonard, which is what you want, or which is what you think you're going to get in the next couple of years. What's going to happen with him, right? Is Shangoon going to play any defense? Is he going to play any defense? I will say this, though. I do love the fact that I get to watch a functioning offense down the stretch in Houston, right? Not just Shangoon taking it from half court, and everybody knows he's going to back in somebody and, like, throw in like a little hook shot that may or may not go ahead.

Yeah. Or, um, I'm in Thompson, you know, not necessarily knowing what he's doing down the stretch. Although he did have that great play in Boston. But I do want to, there needs to be maturation from this roster that I just can't, I can't gauge it in, in July. So I think I'm going to say over, but I'm not comfortable with it right now, Howard. They won 52 games last season.

The overrunner's 54 and a half. Like the idea that they would be at least two to three wins. better, I think, I think is, is justifiable. That might have been justifiable, even if they hadn't swapped out Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks for KD. And KD's, you know, the obvious thing, right? He's going to make them better in late game situations. Yeah, you got to get him healthy through the season and hope he gets, you know, gives you at least 65 games. But they're going to be, you know, another year more experienced, another year together, KD to stabilize things in fourth quarters when Jalen Green again was sometimes getting benched in playoff games. That won't happen with Kevin

or aunt, whatever you lost in Dylan Brooks's defense. Like, you've got plenty of other guys. You got Tari Isson. You've got them in Thompson. Like, you've got it. Plus, they signed Doreen Phiney Smith. Dorian Phiney Smith, like, if there were an all-star team for role players, like he's like elite at the role player level. He's, he's great. And you can plug and play him. He can play small ball five. He can play next to Shangun. If Shangoon's a five, you can play next to Stephen Adams, Clint Capelik. Their big man rotation has a lot of a lot of depth and versatility. Their bench is deep. Like the Rockets can play 10-11 legit rotation guys. And we're in an era where depth matters as much, I don't want to say matters more than star power. Stars are still

who get you to the championship and deepen the playoffs. But like we keep seeing how much depth matters now. And the Rockets have it. And so yeah, I'll go over. 54 and a half. Like I think this team is primed to just start stomping people. They were already really good last year with a very young team. And I think the, you know, additions of Katie, Doreenny Smith, Clint Capella, I think that much better. And they, you know, they're going to beat the hell out of teams physically on a given night too now. Yeah. And then they have the scoring ability. Like Katie is scoring like it's five years ago. Like he has his offensive production doesn't stop. And like as he gets older and his like defense kind of declines like he you're not really going to see that on

this rocket's team because they're just so deep defensively right like they have you can pair him with a clint capella you compare him with a stephen adams like resigning stephen adams was such a big deal for them um as well he played really well in the postseason um they're a big team they're a deep team uh i like them you know i like them a lot uh i do wonder though like who's more important And like, Katie's obviously far in a way to number one option here. But like, how do you do that, how do you use him as a number one option while trying to bring Amin along, right? Like, he's clearly your face of the future. So I feel like there's a balance there as well.

Just trying to find tension points here. I think that they're a great team and they're going to be fine, especially in that Western Conference. They are one of only two teams, I think, along with Denver, who have a legitimate chance to challenge the Thunder, right? Like, there's a bunch of other teams that are good. But you've got the top tiers. the Thunder. The next tier is Rockets and Nuggets, who both had great off seasons. And I think, you know, I think the great thing about KD right now at this stage of his career is it does seem like he's, he's thinking about like the bigger picture a lot and what the end game is for him.

And like putting him on a young team, like Phoenix was funky. So we don't need to get into that. But like, going to a team where he's tight with the coach, Ima, Udoca, he's got young guys who do need his leadership, even if it's not like vocal leadership, even if it's just lead by example, even it's just lead by mentorship, even it's just lead by little tips here and there on a practice day or a shoot around. They've got other guys who can beat, like Fred Van Bleets a hell of a leader, you know, and EMA is a leader. Like they don't, he doesn't need to be the vocal guy.

He just needs to be the guy who's like been there, done that scene, everything really smart and knows the game and knows how to develop your game, I think he'll be great for Ahman Thompson. And I don't think Katie at this stage of his career is going to feel like, like, oh, I got to get up more shots in a game than Amman Thompson. Like, I think this is going to work fine. I think my only concern for them at all is Katie's health. And I think they have enough depth that they can nurse him through the season

and don't have to ride him too hard. Yeah. Also, he has a competent for an office that he can't overpower, which is, I think, a really good thing for him. It's the last stop. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Raphael Stone is in a great job and just built. Like they got Katie for damn near nothing.

Like, and they kept their depth intact and they got better along the margins. Like, yeah, Rockets are going to be good. You're right. I'll say like 58 wins. I'll give them 58 wins with a caveat for maybe 60. Cliff. All right, let's take it back east to Victoria's favorite city. That is Atlanta.

Welcome to Atlanta where the players play. All right. Over is 46 and a half. Landa missing is all season. Sae-Hook-Kinard. They got Porzingis. They got Nikol Alexander Walker. Looking pretty good.

How are you feeling about the hucks at 46.5? Yo. Was that the over under on their wind total? They're over under on how many hours Raj's standing in line for his rental car. Oh, shit. Roger going to be in there for two days. Yo, man, I just real quick about Atlanta Airboard, dog. It don't matter what little special program.

ram you in what fucking list you're on dog you are going to wait you are going to fucking wait it was funny even last night when he was like yo man I'm gonna get to the uh I'm gonna get to the hotel like I've touched out at this time I'll be there in like an hour and in the back of my mind I was like you go into Atlanta my guy like yeah you sure you're not going to Oklahoma City you going to Atlanta I was appalled that's not fired that's some bullshit and for reference Atlanta won 40 games last season 40 games I want to I think Atlanta's my sleeper And I don't even know how much of us. It's over easy.

I think they're going to get 50 wins this season. 50. 50. It's a lot of wins, brother. I mean, the East is, the East is terrible. I mean, they got like the likes of the Sixers in there. Oh, that was greatuous. Some other teams that we're going to have to talk about.

I think the Hawks have a chance. I mean, I mean, the big, obviously the big question mark is Chris Shopport, Zingis' help. Right. But I like what they did along the Mars. They got a new front off. who's doing good and just trying things, right? I think, like, especially if you're in the Eastern Conference right now and by extension in this new apron era,

if you just try things and just try to get players and dudes on your roster and just you can make a run, it's a roll of the dice and you can get to the conference finals, right? And this is a big year for Trey Young, like all these years of trade rumors. I feel like there's a rejuvenation there, and I can see like a repeat of 2021, just for the simple fact. of where are the Eastern conferences. I really like the Hawks.

I really like what they've done. I love N-A-W. I love what they've done in this off season. I think they're, I'm going to take the over. I'm going to say like 48 wins. It's funny because the over under 46.5, you know, whatever, it's like a six-and-a-half win increase from last season. It doesn't seem that dramatic, although going from sub-500 to 46-5.

Like, you know, it's significant. What hit me actually was when I was putting these in order and noticing that they are actually the fourth highest ranked team in the east by over-unders, right? Like, they're only behind Cleveland, New York, and Orlando, another team that's expected to make a big leap based on their off-season and based on presumed health after another rough injury year. But like, the Hawks, by win, by over-under, the Hawks are projected as the fourth-best team in the East, which is wild and is at least as much a statement about the East as

it is about the stuff the Hawks have done. I like the move for poor Zingas. Let's hope that whatever was ailing him in that last several months with Boston gets figured out because he just, he was like he's sapped of energy. It was some kind of infection that he couldn't kick. It was something strange. And he seemed really troubled by it. So hopefully that's all straightened out. Nikiel Alexander Walker is a great pickup.

Kinnard's a nice pickup. They lose Capella, Karras Levert, George Nyang. But I like overall, who's incoming? versus who's outgoing. Like, I think they, I think they improved. And they're going to get Jalen Johnson back, which is the biggest deal, right? Like, that's, that's the huge addition is just presumably having a full season of him after he was having a breakout year. And then Trey Young was, you know, last season really looked like he'd kind of found the right balance of playmaking versus scoring, just, you know, playing off his teammates more, setting them up better. The Dyson

Daniels, Nikiel Alexander Walker combination on the wings. defensively could be really great. I'm bullish on them too. Over 46.5 feels like a really big leap for them, but given the state of the East, I'm going to say, yes, I'm still not convinced

that the fourth best team in the East, but I'll go over on the 46.5. Hey, man. Live show at Cascade? April? Cliff? I feel like Magic City is a more appropriate venue, but that's just me. That's Howard's favorite spot.

Let's move on. I'll be at the coffee house down the street. I'll be at the coffee house down the street. No, Howard is going to get the Loua Lemon Pepper Special. That's what I heard. Yeah, for sure. All right. All right, let's get back out West, man.

Let's go to Denver. The Nuggets over 53 and a half at minus 110. For reference, last season, the Denver Nuggets won 50 games. and they had it loaded off season. Who knows what up? Jonas Valencius. They traded for Cam Johnson. They got Bruce Brown back.

And they got Tim Hardaway Jr. So Denver Nuggets. How are we feeling? I'm still taking the under and it's no disrespect to like them and how good they're going to be. Like 51 games, man. That is disrespectful. That is disrespect. No, it's not disrespectful.

You know why? Because they don't try on certain games. They just outright don't try. Like there's always going to be a curious game in March. or January. There's a lot of people in Denver, I know they're like, you're right,

Logan, this is right. We see this shit all the time. But that doesn't mean they're not going to the conference finals and or the finals. It just means that they don't try during the regular season. Like,

they do just enough to get like a four seed and then they go, say, we can kick your ass anywhere. You know, that's just where they are. I love what they've done with the roster.

I love how they've revamped it. They needed to get rid of someone in that, in that core three. And Michael Porter Jr. was the obvious one to do it with his contract. and just how erratic he was.

I know he was going through an injury in the playoffs, but I feel like this Nuggets team need more of a guiding force in that position or more of a steady force in that position. And Cam Johnson provides that. And they have a lot of, they're a lot deeper than they are with Bruce, than they were last year. They got Bruce Brown back. Christian Brown is still there.

Like I like what, they're a playoff team. But in a regular season, I don't know if they get to 54 wins. Like, you're going to ask me that. I'll say a 50-51 because they don't try in some games and it's annoying. I'm going to go over. But before I get into like the details, like, I just want to say this. Like, props to the organization overall, Ben Tenzer and I can't remember who else they hired. Do your victory.

Hold on. Real quick. Do your victory lap. You were right. Which, what victory lap for what? Do the Mike Malone victory lap, please. No, it's not an. Anything, no, it's more this.

I think that the one question we had about the Nuggets the last couple of years was like, all right, you know, you, you know, you spent huge to keep Jamal Murray. He's, you know, he's probably overpaid by like, by the toughest standards he's overpaid. Michael Porter Jr., certainly overpaid. But you had to pay all these guys because you want a championship. And then it was locked up. And then it was second apron. And then it was how are you going to possibly be, they found a way.

Like in this era of second apron and luxury taxes and frozen draft picks and all. these penalties for being a high spender. And once you're in jail, it's really hard to get out of cap jail. And with a brand new front, not brand new, it was guys who were mostly already there. But they offed Calvin Booth and they off Michael Malone as coach. And they had all this, this ambiguity about who was leading them. And they didn't go out and hire a new person. They just kind of promoted some guys, reshuffled some things. And they had a really good offseason. One of the best off seasons in the NBA, getting Cam Johnson, Valanchunis, who will see if they talk him into playing and not going back to Europe, Bruce Brown, Tim Hardaway Jr., like,

that was a really good offseason. The Porter Jr. trade, you know, I've heard, you know, Bill killed the Nets over it. I don't think it was that bad on the Nets side of it, but being able to trade Porter and his contract and get out of that and get Cam Johnson, who I think is a better fit and a better overall player, like they did a good job. That was a really good offseason for them. And the bench is now deeper. That was a big problem for them. The supporting cast period is just better balanced. And I've never been the biggest, like, Tim Hardaway Jr. guy because like, you know, sometimes it just becomes Tim Hardaway Jr. time.

But I think, but I also can't hurt. When the dude gets hot, like, look out. There was a, I don't know whose podcast it was, whose show it was. But Tim Hardaway Jr. and Cam Johnson were on together and were asked, I apologize to whoever his show it was, when they were asked about like playing with Yokich and they both just like broke into these huge smiles because they know they're going to get all kinds of open shots. And these are guys who both shoot a pretty good percentage from three anyway, but you shoot a better percentage from three when you've got a guy setting you up in rhythm, open shots all the time.

And Yokoj is going to do that. I think they had a great offseason. I think they're in prime position to have a great regular season. And I think to your point, Logan, about kind of dragging through the dog days of the season and maybe not trying, I think some of that is like once you've won a championship, you start treating the regular season a little bit differently. But when you bring it a bunch of guys who haven't won it, who haven't been there, which they have, you refresh the bench a little bit, refresh the supporting cast. And Michael Porter Jr. is one of those guys who's guilty of just kind of like floating through parts of the season. He's gone now. So I think this revives them a little bit, puts a new energy there. Fifty three and a half, I'm over.

For sure. And that was the young man in a three. Shout out to. Thank you for. Yeah. Great show. To the folks over there, for sure. Shout up to Tommy. Also, like, have done a good job. Shout up to Tommy. Also, like, you know, still held down to Ford even with JJ gone.

So shout out to them. Who's next? Who is next? Let me get in my East Coast elitist bag and go to the New York Knicks. Over 52 and a half for reference last season, the New York Knicks won 51 at games. Now, is that wins or is that the amount of over-under headaches that our guy Ben is going to have from watching this fucking team next year. Really?

Really? That's where you went with that, Logan? I love our guy. I'll just ask. No, I just, like, you're immediately, like, being, like, Debbie Downer on, on, on, on the Knicks and, like, you're worried about, you're worried about Ben's psyche already, and it's like July, man. I mean, he said he wanted to hear our thoughts on the pod about this new hire.

Go. Hit it. I just want to preface by saying, like, I love Mike Brown. You know, whenever you do that before, whenever somebody does that before, I'm about to say, yeah, you know, the big, the butt is going to just not go, it's not going to be delightful.

Love that dude. Come, however, I just don't think that this was the right situation or the right type of codes for this situation. You basically got a carbon copy of what you just what you just got rid of. And I think it gives more credence, honestly, to the smoke that Roger was putting out there about,

like, it had to have been bigger to get rid of Tibido. Also, it had to be bigger reasons than what was given to, which to get rid of Tibido. And so I think that they're going to play hard for Mike Brown. I think that they're going to be good. I think they just needed a new type of blood. And I don't know if Mike Brown is the new type of blood that you were looking for. Like Tyler Jenkins may have been that, you know.

But I think that they, I think that for a veteran group, I think that Mike Brown is a little bit more suited at this stage right now for a younger crop that he can kind of mold in his image. These guys are already there. And that being said, this is a big test for. him, a huge test for him. Because we've seen what he's done with veteran groups. Like, I think

about the Lakers in, you know, 2012 era, where they were really good, but at a point in time, like, they tuned him out because he works really hard. He works so hard. And he, and that reverberates to, you know, shoot-arounds, a lot of shoot-arounds, a lot of practice days.

And that is, and Nicks right now are a veteran group, so he's going to have to do a lot of adjusting on the fly. And, And I think that there could have been maybe somebody would have, I think this team may have needed somebody with a softer touch while trying to figure out, you know, keeping their identity. And I think they're going to keep their identity with Mike Brown. I just don't know.

I just don't know if he was the right fit in terms of like a guy that's going to work really hard. And also, you know, I'm just like kind of choosing my words wisely here because I don't want to get. but I think that they needed a guy that was going to just have like a softer touch. I'll just say that. I'll put it that way. I would agree with that. Clif's giving me a crazy look right now. So are you going under the 52 and a half?

Cliff, are you good? Hey, look, man, I'm chilling, man. I'm just, I'm just listening to your analysis. That's all, brother. You go edit it right. It's cool. You're going to edit it right. You have a tour to hold me down.

There's no edits on his podcast, bro. We just go straight. We go straight through it. So, yeah, right. To be clear. To be clear. Are you going under that 52? and a half lover? Yeah.

That slight little hesitation to like back the way for like food. Yeah. I think so. Um, look, I see what you're saying with with Mike Brown, especially compared with Tibbs and being in somewhat the same mold. The difference I see is this. I don't think that Tibbs was fired because he had worn out the players, although maybe there were some elements and some rumblings of that in some corners of the locker room. this isn't the classic case of the old coach wore them out so we got to flip to the the player friendly coach and the more personable guy who's going to like you know be the person the relationships guy it this was more about the coach and the front office and or ownership than I think it was coached to players so I'm less I'm less concerned about Mike walking in with the way that he you know coaches and having it be too much of the same of what they just had um but let's start with the players first. So like they had a good offseason. They picked up Jordan Clarkson and Gersh Gershon Yabuselli, formerly of Cliffs' team. They, they, they, I hope folks who are watching saw Cliff's reaction there just now. I'm sorry, Cliff. Good pickups. Like one of the problems with

that team last year, whether you want to put it on the front office for not getting better players, or whether you want to put it on tips for not quote unquote developing the bench, Like either way, the bench one wasn't great. And he did turn to them too late. But those are upgrades. Clarkson and Yabaseli are upgrades, I think. You've got your second full year of Kat with Brunson. You got your second full year with Mikhail Bridges.

Like there's some continuity stuff here that I think plays in their favor. And when it comes to the coach, Logan, I'll just say this. Like, however much Mike Brown might be more in the image of Tibbs than he is of say, I don't know, maybe even Steve Kerr. who he worked for for all those years of the Warriors, Mike Brown is definitely a much more personable and, I think, easygoing person than Tibbs is. That's not a knock on Tibbs.

This is just the way they're wired. And I think that Mike's, even by contrast, softer touch or just more personable touch, a little younger. I just think that that and everything that he learned, you know, the Lakers experience was a long time ago.

And that was a really difficult team. That was, you know, didn't he didn't he have Kobe and Dwight and Steve Nash or was that the next season? No, he did. I think that's when he got fired.

He started off. Yeah, when he had those guys. Like Kobe ain't easy, period. He's the reason why Bernie Bickerstaff is the winning his coach in Lakers. With that like two and oh record or whatever it was. Yeah. No, I think that, you know, Mike picked up a lot during his years with the Warriors in terms of relationships, in terms of how to.

of balance things. You know, like, Steve Kerr's whole thing is like, we don't have to live and breathe this every hour of the day. We can, we can take a day off and everybody can go golf or go watch a movie or something. And I think that Mike will bring a healthier version of this than he might have earlier in his coaching career. And I also think, but pushing back on that, there were some reports out of Sacramento saying that some of the guys were burned out. Now, it is Sacramento, right? Like there were other, other factors, but there were, um, even rumblings during the postseason, I would say, when they went it, went in 2023, like, yo, like, I remember Malik Monk said something.

He said that Mike Brown wants to be perfect in an imperfect world, right? And that kind of like, that was something that was percolating. So, like, I'm not saying that he hasn't, you know, gotten softer around the edges, but what I will say is, like, it's still there. Yeah. You know, even for a young team, it was still there after not even two years. Yeah. Offensively, he's going to, to, I think, be more innovative than Tibbs was.

And I think the Knicks could stand to diversify their offense a bit. They got stale at times. They got bogged down in ISO ball with Brunson. McHale Bridges, as we saw when Brunson was out, can still do some things with the ball in his hands. Michael Bridges, by the way, on my flight from New York last night. Not very incognito. Everybody's like on the like rental card or not the little train taking you from the gate to baggage claim. People are like, that's McHale Bridges.

Like taking photos like for a cross trade. Yeah. It's economical. You guys are in first class together? No. Teterboro. Teterboro. Hey, I'll go.

Bridges can do some things with the ball in his hands. You can run the offense through Kat at times. they could have stood to do more of that. And I think they will under Mike Brown. And I think that that will ease the burden on Brunson, keep him fresher, keep the offense, especially in late game situations and playoffs, a little bit less easy to defend. Points might be a little easier to come by.

And this is a professional veteran team. Like to the extent that Logan, you're saying the Kings might have like chafed a little bit under him. Like this is a professional team. He's not going to have to like ride them that hard. Like no one's working harder than that. like Jalen Brunson and Josh Hart to begin with. So I think it's fine. Like, you know, did they need to fire Tibbs? Is Mike Brown up to you? I don't, I don't, I'm not, I don't care about that part anymore. I said on Zach's pot earlier in the week. Like, I don't think it was like, well, you,

you specifically fired Tibbs in order to hire Mike Brown. They entered, they chased 10 other people. It's more about like, did you have a justification to fire Tibbs? That's one question. Then the next one is, who do you need now that you have a vacancy? Like, who, who fits? I think Mike Brown's a good choice. I think Taylor Jenkins would have been a good choice. What about Jason Kid? He was under contract. It's irrelevant. That didn't matter. I'm trying to dodge the question, Logan. Stop it. Anyway, I'm going over on the 52 and a half, especially in a week year for the East when I think the Knicks and Cleveland of the two top teams, like, clearly. For sure. Also, one other thing, they got to get that defense in order. In order.

New York. I know they play really well in Spurs during the postseason. Mike Brown is a defensive savant, although he's coming off a tenure with the Kings when they very much underperformed defensively. And he needs to bounce back with his next team. The Knicks will also go to the first season, presumably, Mitchell Robinson, which will help out their defensive numbers too. So Cliff, what's next? What's next is West. Oh, you don't want to go up to? You don't want to go up to. You don't want to go up I-95 real quick?

You don't want to take the Amtrak? You mean down 95? Whatever. Amtrak. I took Amtrak from New York. Where we go to D.C.? Like, what do you mean? Like that's what team you want to go to?

No, I thought he was going to go to the Sixers. You don't want to go to the Sixers? You don't want to do the Sixers? No, man. Let's go all west, man. You don't want to do the Sixers? Cliffs like Jersey Shore. We go to the Jersey Shore.

We go to the Jersey Shore. Yeah, Jersey Shore. You don't want to talk about the blue coats? I don't be in Delaware, bro. Okay. Let's talk about the loss and just Lakers. I heard Delaware was popping. Hold on.

I heard Delaware was popping. Who told you that? You? I didn't say that. I was just funny. I'm just funny. I'm just fine. You know what Delaware is good for?

You know what Delaware is good for? Driving through? Driving through. It's a small state. So it's very good to just drive through Delaware. I'm sure they got a great wah-wah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Delaware, they got the gas waw-wawas, plush while, you know what I mean?

They got the cash. All right of these two, don't they? You know, a lot of people go to court in Delaware. Yeah. All right. Shout out to Wilmington, man. Shout to my folks in Wilmington. Let's get to the Los Angeles Lakers.

Let's see here. Right past the Sixers. The Los Angeles Lakers, 40. We're not doing all 30 teams, but we do have to hit the Sixers before this time. When we go back east, however, we go back east, we'll get to the Sixers. The Los Angeles Lakers are at 48 and a half wins. They're over. It's set at 48 and a half wins of minus 118.

They're under obviously would be minus 112, so their odds to win over is a little bit higher. So do we feel the Los Angeles Lakers will win 48 and a half? They won, for reference, 50 games last season, the Los Angeles Lakers, the Luka Los Angeles Lakers. Notice I didn't say LeBron because it's Lucas team. You just said it. I just, I don't know.

I said LeBron, I mean, because it's really Lucas Lakers, but I mean, LeBron and Legote and whatever. How are you feeling about the Dorian Finney Smith to D'Andre Aiton swap? Shout out Bill Duffy, man. That's what I'll say. Shout out Bill Duffy. He was running shit. Yeah, that was the most blank expression.

You said what? That was the most blank expression. Bro, but that being said, man, that is... We got Brony. No, no, no. You got Brony. Brony was hooping last night. He was hooping.

Hey, not for nothing. He was hooping. He had a little dunk in the bay, too. listen, I have slandered enough. I don't want the Illuminati on my ass. I just want to. I just want to say this. I did watch as much of that game between the Lakers and Mavs Summer League teams

featuring Cooper Flagg on my tiny ass TV on the back of the Delta seat last night on the flight out here. Shout out to the league and their broadcast partner for being able to shamelessly present that game as like some kind of massive event. Because it was Brony James, a second round pick from a year ago versus Cooper Flagg, the number one fucking pick and who's supposed to be like a generational star. And that was the matchup. And they sold it. They sold it. Like props to everybody involved. Tremendous. Incredible. Hey, man. Second secondary market tickets were going for like thousands of dollars or something, whatever. People are lining up at 5 a.m. Like I get it on the Cooper Flag side of it. And this is

not slandering Brunny James at all, who I hope. has a great career. But like the idea that this was Brody James versus Cooper Flag was like actually kind of. One, it wasn't even the worst game with a night. And Summer League games suck.

That you're about to- You-Tonio Utah game was just. Was it San Antonio, Philly? Oh yeah, the San Antonio-Filly game. It was a San Antonio Philly game. Sorry.

Sorry. Excuse me. I'm sorry. Apologize to Cliff. Hey, look. Till Vijay come back, I'm out watching the, I put that shit on studio.

I'm watching the studio now. I'm binge watching the studio. I put that shit on Apple TV so fast after I watched. I saw two seconds of that San Antonio game. Secondly, we'll eventually get to the Lakers. Josiah Johnson, you know I love you. You know I love you, but you need to stop with them damn Cooper flagged Bronny tweets. I saw what you said.

I saw what you did. He did a screenshot of Jordan, like, uninterestedly guarding a player on the meme and said it was Bronny James versus Cooper Flag, Michael Jordan there being Brony and Cooper Flag being the guy he's guarding.

Josiah, stop that. Stop it. Anyways, the Lakers. I'm taking, I want to take the under so bad. I want to take it so bad.

But I can't in good conscience take a team. I take the under on a team that has LeBron and Luke on it. I don't, I can't do it. I don't think that they're going to,

if they're healthy, I think they're going to figure it out. The DeAndra Aiden edition was I saw him play against Bigs, great Biggs in the Western Conference in a playoff setting two years ago or

three years ago, he got cooked. If you want to look at that, what happened in the 2023 postseason, the master class that Yokic put on him, but you might guess, go watch YouTube for that. He has a lot to prove. And not only just from a defensive

standpoint, but just from an overall reputation standpoint. He has not elevated any team he's really been on unfortunately. And this is, he's going to be a starting center for the Los Angeles Lakers and the scrutiny that comes

with that is going to be immense. And I want to see what he does with that kind of pressure. And, you know, we'll see what happens. What do you think, you think Luca's going to sign that extension? I think there was a really great discussion on Hoop Collective about.

that you guys go check that out with um timbott and uh mcmann and winhorse did a great job and wasn't the conclusion that there's no real incentive to do it right now yeah but they were but i think uh win horse made the um the partnership the partnership thing and that you know were in a marriage i thought that was interesting too right like i think on one hand i would want luca to lock in because the i get the pressure standpoint right i get it but front offices historically don't do great under duress, right? When they know that a player could leave in two years.

They do look at LeBron's first time in Cleveland, right? Look at, there's a myriad of examples of this where front offices kind of mortgage their future and don't make smart decisions when a player has them over the barrel like that. So I do see the partnership part of it.

Like if he does a two year, like I am on board with that. But we'll see. So I'm tempted to go under on vibes alone here, right? Hmm. Yeah. Rich Paul puts out the statement. I wrote about this earlier in the week on the ringer.com. Rich Paul puts out the statement where it's kind of like, yeah, we're not asking for a trade,

but LeBron's not quite sure, you know, if you're really prioritizing him anymore. We know you have to prioritize Luca, but hey, you know, we're kind of toward the end here. And LeBron really kind of wants to be able to win a championship. Like if nothing else, you could, you could pretty well read into that statement that he's not happy with the state of affairs. And so LeBron's on a one-year deal. Forget all the trade stuff. He's not getting traded. He's not getting bought out.

He's there. He's going to retire a Laker, bro. He's just posturing right now. I don't. But they lost Dorian Finney Smith, who was a very good player and replaced him effectively with DeAndre Aiton, who was a okay player, who got bought out by a losing team. they added Jake Laravia too. So, okay, fine. Like, they're like, fine. But like, what have they done in the offseason? When they got Luca, my first thought was you've taken a step back, at least in some regard, because you lost some depth and you lost a really great big in Anthony Davis. And you need time now to backfill and to restructure around your new core of Luca and LeBron. And I thought, okay, they've got the off season to do that. And here we are. And all they've done is lose Dore and Finney Smith. and replace him with DeAndre Aiton. Like,

this is not... Lucas' best friend in the league. You just let him go. And on a deal, and I get, another thing, like, there's all these rumblings of, hey,

we're going to use cap space in two years, right? Right. You could have fucking, if, what's, one is a crock of doo-do,

because, like, if you're competing every year, you can't take years for granted and with a guy like Luca. You just can't do it, right? No, that's number one.

And number two, you could have signed Dorian Finney Smith to, if that was your goal to a two-year deal. Give him his bread. Yeah, I did not understand that part of it at all. So I don't like the vibes. I don't like losing Dorian Finney Smith, which is not going to make Luca happy, not doing much to improve the roster at all, which doesn't make LeBron happy. Playing this kind of more of a long game, it seems like. We don't know what kind of shape Luca will come in. DeAndre Aiton, if we can believe him.

is saying that Luca's in incredible shape. If so, that's great news for them. Have you seen the pictures from Europe? He looks great. Yeah. Okay. I have not. I have not.

So that's great. Like that's, you know, look, if that was the biggest concern the Dallas Mavericks had and Luca decides to take better care of himself now and like great. But like they got smoked by the wolves in the first round in five games.

And I just don't see there's any improvement other than they get a full season of Luca and maybe a full season of Luca in better shape. Other than that, what is the, and LeBron's turning 41 in December. remember where's where's the improvement based on changes from last season to this season other than what I just listed there's just not a lot to go on and then you've got like I said just like bad vibes so I'm taking the under a big year for Rob Belinka because new ownership there could a year from now we could be talking about a whole revamped uh a front office for the for the Lakers so all right

what's next we got time man just Cliff just give us a fucking team we have some time Eventually, I got to get... Big year coming up for LeBron James. Where you got to go, Howard? Where you got to go? I got to get to the gym. Got to get to Thomas and Mac. Cox Pavilion.

Summer League. Summer League is fantastic. When's the first game? When is the first game? It's like 1230. There's something else going. Oh, okay. All right.

I don't come out here without an agenda, Logan. I come out here with... I got people to see. I got babies to kiss and hands to shake. All right. Whatever. Anyway, go ahead, Cliff. All right.

Let's go back out of these to Logan's favorite. team that he wants to talk about so badly. I don't know why. Philadelphia 76. Dun, done. Wait, why don't you want to talk about your favorite team? That's how you know that's my favorite team, first of all.

Because I don't know, the fucking Sixers poster you have above Tupac at the background. All right, sorry, I need to take that. I need to take it. I need to take it down. Just in a bad way. You know what, it's July. This is when everybody's supposed to be

optimistic, Cliff. Everybody's zero and zero. Everyone's got championship dreams. Come on, man. Right. Look, I'm optimistic here too. Ben Simmons is a free agent. Y'all can bring it back. All right, man. Let me see how we took it too far. The over is a half. The under is also, well, obviously, 43 and a half. But the odds are at minus 114 for both. So therefore, they think this could go either way for the Sixers. The odds makers believe 43 and a half, they won 24 games last season. Philadelphia 70s, folks. It's just like silently laughing.

That's not a take. Laughing is not a take. You just said bad vibes, right? You talk about bad vibes with the Lakers. Like, that makes, oh man, this is like how the bad vibes in Philly are like reminiscent of how it smelled during the sanitation strike. and Philly over the last couple of weeks. It's pretty terrible, man.

Wow. I'm not... Good Lord. Sanitation strike. I'm not optimistic about this right now. We know how the program feels about Paul George. Joelle Embed is just sad, man. At least you guys got Tyree's Max that you guys can, you know, galvanize.

And McCain is good. I'm going to go under, bro. Let's say like 30. 32 wins. Oh, Jesus. Like 32 wins, bro. Are you being disrespectful now?

You don't even like the team. You don't even like the team. I mean, all right. You better root for Sequin this year. Come on. You already know what that's happening. Yeah, yeah. But all right, look, 32 and a half, look.

Here's the problem with the sixes, right? Every year it's always, if healthy. And I'm so sick of hearing that if healthy, if healthy, if healthy, if healthy. But my head always tells me, all right, if healthy, this team is actually pretty solid, but on the other end, it's like, I don't know how healthy this team can actually be, which freaks me out. So I don't know. I teeth the line with this. I would say, if healthy, they should definitely went over 43 and a half games, but what are you picking though? What is your pick? What do you mean? I would, are you over under? You know,

all right. You know why? I'm going to take the over. I'm going to rely with the foundation that Embedd and Paul George will remain relatively healthy throughout the season. So I'll take the 43 and a half if they're relatively healthy and the east is wide open. So yeah, yeah. I think this is a case where perceptions and not recency bias, but just recency experience has kind of put this permanent cloud where it is, it is fogged up everybody's perceptions of the Sixers. Everybody's forgotten about how dominant they actually can be and how dominant

Joelle Embedd is, asterisk went healthy. But Joel Embeddead's not 38. He's 30, 30, 31? Like, it's 31. We have jumped too quickly to the idea that he will just never be the same again, as if there's some chronic thing or as if he went through, as if he blew out as Achilles or something. I don't think we're there yet. I get that the last season and a half, two seasons have been injury marred, starting with Joelle

Embed and then everything cascades from there. He's gone through another knee surgery to try to clean up whatever was not cleaned up the last time. I'm going to go from a working assumption. and it may bite my bite me in the ass, but it's July 11th. So I'm going to feel safe in saying this now. We may see something different in October when these guys are in camp. But as of July 11th on the presumption that surgery worked, by the way, never in the history of NBA surgeries is a surgery not been successful.

Just check the press releases. They've all been successful. If Joelle and Bede, if that, if whatever it was is finally cleaned up, Joel and Bede's back to being at minimum a top 10 player for however. many games. I mean, you want to say, oh, he's going to get hurt again. We don't know that. I get it. I get the pessimism. I get the belief that he will just never stay healthy. I get it. I get it. It's okay to work from assumption of at 31 years old on a knee surgery again. This is a reconstructive stuff. This wasn't like an ACL. This wasn't anything dramatic. He just has to be himself again.

And if he's a top 10 player, I'll say it right now. The Sixers are top four in the East. Because partially, again, the East is a wasteland. And Joelle Embed is one of the best players in Eastern Conference when healthy. And him healthy means Paul George is that much better because it ain't all on him. Tyrese maxi takes another step. Full season of Jared McCain, see what VJ. Edgum brings to the table. I think they probably end up keeping Quentin Grimes. We'll see where the restricted for agency stuff goes.

And, you know, maybe Daryl's got another move up his sleeve. But I'm going to bank on the idea that Embeded is healthy for enough of the season for them to be who they've been in better times. They're top four in the east. I'm taking the over. If it was a fifth, we'd all be like Cliff in New York. You know? Wait, what do I be in like in New York, bro? What should be like in New York?

Everybody in Brooklyn, all the cliff spot does at Brooklyn tap in. Anyways, what's the next one? We got to go to another team. Let's get to the bay. Slow motion with the potion in the ocean, whatever Logan likes to say. Slow motion with the potion trying to get to the ocean. The Golden State Warriors, 46. six and a half.

Their under has the same odds number as well at minus 114. So it could go either way, according to the odds makers. And last season, the Warriors won 48 games. How are we feeling about the Golden State Warriors this upcoming season? I don't feel that good about this team. But 46 is just like, that's kind of like, you're not getting to the plan like with 46 wins. I think they at least get to that.

So I guess I have to take. So 46 and a half makes them the seventh ranked team in the West based on over-unders, right? So that's right at the top of the play-in. So to your point. Okay. So I- And last year, two teams in a play-in were Dallas and the Kings who had 39 and 40 wins collect each.

I just, I'm just, the Warriors are just, yuck. Just absolutely yuck. I mean, I, this is what I think about the Warriors right now, man. I think that, well, I know that they're in a holding pattern because, they can't get a deal done with commingo, which is just, who they're trying to do a trade they should have did three years ago. And we don't have to get into the office stuff. But I just think that next year, they don't have,

they don't have a, I mean, I guess they're going to have Al Horford. Like, that's like the wink, wink, he's coming. But we got to just get this comming a thing done. Like, he's going to be here. That's your starting center now, right? And I know that he is like somehow older than Howard and still like doing work. But do you really want to trust him for 82 games? And I know that the Celtics did a really good job last year of rationing his minutes

and getting him fresh for the postseason. But he's not going to have that luxury in the Bay Area. It's going to be him a starting center. And I think the backup center is Draymond, right? This team is so old. and you're going to you're not you can't trust jimmy butler to play 82 games right like he's going to 50 to 60 step's going to have to take you're back at square one that you've been every year since duran has been gone right where you're going to just put so much of the offensive load on step

in his orbit and he's only getting older yeah i think i might have just talked myself into the under but i'm still going to go the over because so i can you know go outside and you know not get yelled at by weird words. All right. So not by E-40. Ooh. No, shout out to the, hey, man. Shout to the homie 40, man.

Shout out to Uncle Walter. He know the vibes. He ain't tripping off of that. He know the truth. I'm not going to say that them going 23 and 7 with Jimmy. We would just like extrapolate, project out and say like, oh, they're great. They'll be fine. Because, yeah, small sample and.

And he didn't play most of the season in Miami. He was very fresh. He was very fresh. And I agree with you. He's probably playing 60 to 65 games because that's been the pattern for the last several years. He usually gets banged up at some point along the way. There's a lot of health, age, fatigue, volatility with this team, right? Curry, Butler, Draymond, but, and then Al Horford on top of it, most likely, it seems.

They want to bring back to Anthony Melton coming off, it was the ACL, right? Are you going to find a 10-day to this team, Howard? I think I'm too old even for them. Bradley Beal apparently, like they're in the Bradley Beal thing, maybe if that buyout ever happens. Like, let's face it. The Cumminga thing is the key part of the whole entire, like the entire offseason hinges on the Cominga thing, right? They're either bringing him back in which case they're probably not all that happy of having him back and he's not that happy to be back and they still got to figure this thing out. And he doesn't really fit next to Jimmy and he doesn't really fit in Kerr's offense. It's like a sign and trade involving Cumminga and what it may bring back is the whole offseason now. it feels like. Because if you, they did, listen, they did a great job last year in cashing out on clay and turning him into multiple pieces that actually were contributors and gave them some depth and gave them some youth and gave them some shooting. I think if they can find the right deal with Cumminga in a sign and trade, it's still,

it's July 11th. Like, there's a lot of summer left and all the restricted free agents, giddy, cuminga, grimes. Like, these guys are all still just in a holding pattern because restricted free agency is tough and even tougher now in today's MBA. that's the whole thing. That is the whole thing. What do you get back for Cuminga? Does it solve some of the problems, Logan, that you just outlined?

Do you get a little younger? Do you get another serviceable big so that you don't have to play Al Horford 30 minutes a night? Because you just can't do that. So there's a like there's a big asserisk on this thing. Like their off season is incomplete. If we were doing the grades thing, we'd put incomplete. We don't know where this lands. But I'm still going to be bullish on Curry Butler, Draymond.

and yeah, they're all going to miss some time. But I'm taking the over. They won 48 last year with only a partial season from Jimmy Butler. I'm saying over on the 46 and a half. I think they're in the mix for being top four or five in the West. In the mix four. I didn't say they're going to land there. But it all depends on the comming.

Howard, Howard, Howard. Moving on. about these warriors, man. You be blinded by these warriors, dog. They come and they have their brilliant game in Brooklyn once a year. And you just have fucking, and you have hard eyes for them. That happens, dog.

But I have to watch the fucking Tuesday in January at Chase where they play so uninspired and like Curry goes six of 25. Like, this is the thing with, this last thing I'll say about the Warriors, man. This off season is such a microcosm of the last, I'd say four or five years where they always try to kick the can down the road. Yeah.

And in the name of like continuity. And also I think this summer is like we're finally seeing the front office power struggle in real time. Right. Because Lake just doesn't want to let go of comminga. And meanwhile, this is why I don't think that their offseason is going to be like that great. Because who are they going to get? Miles Turner is already with a new team. a new deal, right? Like, all the players that they could get or that they would want to get right

now that could really help them have already been dealt. But that was free agency. Like, there's, there are other teams that also have their own issues to deal with right now. Somebody out there wants it. Somebody out there wants Jonathan Cominggan to sign and trade. And what are they willing to give up? Like, I don't know the answer to these questions. None of us do. But that's, but that's my thing, though, right? Like, because of this comminga thing, like, we just saw. Pascal Seacom help a team get to the finals. You know who, like, Pascal Seaccombe was linked to.

It was linked to the Warriors a couple years ago, but like they don't want to give up comming. Like, this is the thing and the reason why the Warriors, it's one player. And I feel like I'm triggering a lot of people and I'm really sorry, but this is the facts. They have fumbled a lot of things because of the stuff that's going on in the front office and the power struggle that's happening in that front office. And they're going to have to figure that out, not just for the. next two seasons with Steph's there, but like when Steph's gone. So it's an annoying, it's an annoying, just state of affairs in Golden State. We should go speed round so I can get moving here. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. All right. Let's get Howard moving here because Howard has so many great things

to do, huh? Out in Vegas. Let's go to the regular. Let's go to hang out. It's going to be, hey, man, he's missing the lunch with Sean Powell and BT right now. Okay. We got to fucking, we got. We got. We got to get them out of here. That was breakfast, man. Lunch is a whole thing. Howard's missing the slots. That's what Howard's missing the slots.

Anyways, let's get to the Top Dog in the East last year by record. The Cleveland Cavaliers, their over is at 56 and a half at minus 112. Last season, the Cleveland Cavaliers won 64 games. How do you feel about the Cleveland Cavaliers? Over, but they're going to disappoint us. Howard. Yeah, I think that's right. Over 56 and a half, like that's way too low for a team that won 64 games.

games and brings back everybody. They added Lonzo Ball, so they got yet another playmaker off the bench there. I like that. They may lose Ty Jerome. They still haven't actually lost Ty Jerome, right? I think he's still in limbo. You expect another leap from Garland and Mowgli. Yeah, and again, east is a wasteland. I hit the over. There we go. Let's go to the champions, the Oklahoma City Thunder. Their record is set at 62 and a half for the over at minus 122. the under is at 62 and a half so Vegas really believes that they'll get that over easy. They had 68 wins last year.

Do the Thunder, do it again? They're not getting 62. I think that's just a lot to ask right now. I mean, maybe they will. Maybe they will. They're young and they will play hard. But like, I'm just thinking about the championship fatigue and trying to go back to back.

I think they'll be right back in the mix for another finals run. But I just, I'm going to take under. All right, go ahead, Howard. I'm going over. You know what they remind me of? You're going to love this, Logan. They remind me of the 25.

Warriors when they won the championship in that young group that is super professional and like the Warriors won 73 games after winning a championship. Like that never happens. Teams usually have a championship hangover. They get a little complacent, happy with them. Like there's nothing about this Thunder team that strikes me as like guys who are going to get complacent or happy with themselves. Like this is like super professional, kind of pretty humble for a championship team, even on their way to it and and through it. Like, I just, they added nobody of note. They lost nobody of note.

They, everybody got massive extensions. They're all going to be happy. But I just think that this team is so professional in the way they approach the game that dipping from 68 down below 62 seems almost insulting. I'll take the over. Okay. All righty. Let's go back east to the Orlando Magic.

The Orlando Magic, they're over set at 50 and a half at minus 128. The under for that would be at minus 104. So Vegas truly, truly believes up there. We hit that over. 50 and a half. For reference, the Magic won 41 games last year. The record was 500, the Orlando Metro. Under.

Taking under. Liss Paulo turns in like, you know, six-year LeBron. I don't like the roster construction. I'm not with it. You know who's taking the over? Michael. Mother fucking Beck. Michael Pina.

Oh, okay. Well, then I'm right. Cool. Great. Cool. That makes me real confident in my kick. I'm going to go under just to make peanut mad. That's not very hard, by the way. He loves the magic. I love the Desmond Bain and Tyos Jones additions. Those are good additions. I still don't think that they've got enough of a strong hand guiding this offense to get the most out of Palo and Franz and make this more. This was the 27th ranks. Your two best players are offensive players, Franz and Palo. And they were the 27th ranked

off. Now, I know they have a bunch of injuries too last season, like whatever, but they've, they have not been great with that one-two punch efficiency-wise since they got together. So they got to stay healthy. They got to hope that Tyos Jones and Desmond Bain solve all their playmaking, organizing type issues and creating better shots. I think they're going to be better. I don't think they're going to be top three in the east with a win total over 50. So I'll take the under. Okay. Let's go back west.

The Minnesota Timberwills and Ant Man, the Timberwell's over set at 50 and a half at minus 102. The under for that would be at minus 1.30. Wow. This is a nice little stark difference there. For reference, the Timberwolves won 49 games last year. Do they hit over 50 and a half wins this season? I'll take the over.

I'll take the over. I'm mad at it. They lost Nikiel Alexander Walker. they didn't add anybody. I'm putting a lot on aunt right now. He said he's going to work as hard as it. They still don't have an alternative to Mike Conley Jr. at point.

Like, I mean, you talk about old. Like, love Mike Conley, but like, E. There's just not enough playmaking and depth there.

Can Rob Dillingham grow into some kind of backup point guard role in year two? Like, the Randall Reed combo. You know what's crazy though? Like, the thing that's really messed them up is like they went all in, around Ant, I think, a little too early, right? Yeah, maybe.

They make that, whereas, like, the Rudy trade, and they trade all those picks, so they, that's what's the tough. It's really making team building hard for them. And so you're kind of seeing the fruits of that. But I put my chips in on Ant. Now, does that mean that they're going to make a deep playoff run? I don't think so. But, like, he said he was going to work the hardest he did this offseason.

And I want to see the next step that he makes. And I believe in them. So I'm going to take, I'm going to take a over. But not like, I'm not saying 58, it's 50. You know, so like I can see them making 51, win a 51 game. Yeah, you're, yeah, you're giving them like a half win over the over under and I'm probably shorting them a half win to go under. Like, it's that close.

And, yeah, and the fact is, look like the West, after you get past the top three, there's so much variability from everybody else. Like Houston and Denver are on Oklahoma's tail, right? But then Minnesota, Lakers, Clippers, we haven't talked about yet, Warriors, spur's the Mavericks with whatever DeAngelo Ross. Damn, we got hell of teams. We're not doing all these. We're not doing all these.

We're just not. I got to get out of here. I'm just saying like the four through 10 all the way down to Memphis. Like there's every single one of those teams has a very wide range of outcomes. All right. Let's do a couple more real quick before you get Howard out of here. Let's go to my favorite city that I've never been to. Detroit basketball.

The Pistons. They're over set. Everybody in the 3-1-3. They're over- It's going to kill me every time. They're over-under-set at 44 and a half. Ooh, that over is minus 130. The under is at minus 102.

Looks like Vegas loves Detroit to hit that overmark. For reference, they hit 44 games last season. The Pistons hit the over on this. No. Wow. Logan just staring icily ahead. It's funny because, you know, normally when a team has a breakthrough season, odds makers, fans, all of us, everybody's just like all in on a team.

And it feels like maybe it's because of some of the losses in the offseason here so far. But like they win 44 games and the over under is 44 and a half and they're only pegged as the fifth best team in the east by over under behind Atlanta and Orlando. I feel like they're getting shorted here. And I don't know if that's because they lost. Trudeau and Hardaway Jr. and Malik Beasley with his gambling investigation, they added Karris Lavert and Duncan Robinson. I think they're going to be fine. And I think, you know, Jaden Ivy comes back. And I'm not sure about the Jaden Ivy, Katie Cunningham fit, but still,

that's a talent upgrade when you get Ivy back. And Cunningham's going to keep improving, I think, and he's already awesome. I'm going over. I think I'm puzzled by how short they're shorted they're getting here. Let's get back to Los Angeles and the Clippers. The Clippers over set at 47 to half at minus 120. The under is set at minus 110. The Los Angeles Clippers, for reference, won 50 games last season. Do they eclipse the over at 47.5 and minus 120? I don't know, man. It depends on if they get Brad Bill or not. I mean, that Norm Powell losses. I get why they did it, but it's still a loss nonetheless, especially if you're, if, uh, Kauai doesn't play as many games as you would want him to. Um, that being said, like James Harden, like, say what you

want about him in the postseason played really well during the regular season and really carried that offense. I know Norm Powell had a lot to do with that in terms of a number two, but I say I'll just say, I don't know, but I think I'll take it over. I'm going on. I think they're a well-coached team. I think that they're just one of those teams that plays hard and lingers are well coached. Tailu does a great job. He can get 50 win. He can make teams overachieve in a way that not a lot of coaches can. So I'm going to just take the over just off institution. I'll go over just based on this. They won 50 games and only got like a third of a season from Kauai.

And they may only get a third of a season from him again, but we already know they can survive that. So if they get 50% or 60% of a season from Kauai, they're that much better. Also added John Collins, added Brooke Lopez. I think they're getting Bradley Beal. They may get Chris Paul too. There's great depth there. And as you said, like Tailu's a master of just like putting the pieces together.

So I'll go over on the clips. Let's do two more teams to get Howard out of here. Back to the east we go. And that is the Milwaukee Bucks. You're over under a set at 42 and a half. The over is at minus 128. The under is at minus 104. so Vegas believes that Milwaukee will hit that over.

How are you feeling, guys? I think I'm feeling like Cliff might be undercover degenerate, but um... Shout out the fandom, man. Shout out the fandom, first of all. I think I'm going to take the... Fuck. The slight over just because I respect Janus, but like who's going to play their point?

Who's going to be their point guard? Kevin Porter, Jr.? Oh, God. This is what we meant, Janus, what we see? said like you should leave. You know? Like we were, this is what you're coming back to.

And it's no shade. Like, it felt like the end of the road and this is what it was. And you're gonna, you thought she was mad last year? This is tough. My theory about them, I said this on Zach's podcast early in week.

My theory on the whole Yanna situation, you know, like three months ago, we were all like, oh, this is the summary he's going to ask out. This is the summary's going to ask out. And he still hasn't. And it looks like, They're just running it back and they lose Brooke Lopez.

They replace them with Miles Turner. The wave and stretch dame. Nothing else really has happened. They don't have a point guard. Like it's kind of a mess. And my thought was like they're going into the summer where Janus is probably like, my speculative, you know, version of this is, okay, he told them like, I'm not playing the trade me card yet, but you're on the clock.

Like, let's see what you can do. So they went out and they got Miles Turner and they bring on Gary Harris. Like they're, you know, these are not like massive needle movers, but there's still a lot of summer to go. Maybe there's another trade or two that John Horace can make. But like the clock is ticking loudly now, I feel like, because Janus has made it pretty clear he wants to win another title, at least be in contention, and they're not. By win total, by over under projections, they're rated as the eighth team in the east right now, which seems right to me. 42 and a half wins. I think I'm going, I think I'm going under despite Janus being there. I don't like the cloud that's hanging over this

team now pending other possible moves i don't feel good about them okay all right for this last one i'm gonna give you all three options the san antonio spurs the phoenix suns or the miami heat who will we choosing i won't take the spurs okay i want to i want to be positive i wouldn't lend this on a positive no see san antonio i'm glad we ain't talk about the celtics you was trying to get us fire um but um quick, the more I looked at it, the worse I felt about them. And I was when my initial thought I'd been like, I think it can survive a year without Jason Tatum. Like, they got Jalen Brown.

He's like, and then like no Drew Holiday, no Chris S. Brazingis, no horfer. And I'm looking at the bench. And I'm like, eh, Lou Canette. So yeah, we don't need to go. Let's go to the. Let's be positive. Let's be positive.

Anthony Seidens. Come on, guys. What are we doing? Luca Garza? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, hey. There's center rotation. Tori, take his fucking bubble out.

Take his bubble out. He's done. I love to see the Celtics. First of all, I love to see the Celtics not be good, so no complaints for me. I'm going to take the over, man. I think they're going to win 50 games. Spurs are winning 50. They're going to win 50 games.

I didn't even give you the game total. I got it right here. I got the motherfucking. Can we, the audience needs to know what the game total is? Oh, sorry, sorry. It's at 43 and a half. All right, man. I'm going to take the over.

I'm going to take it over, man. I think Wimby's going to take another leap. I think Stefan Castle is going to take another leap. I think they are going to be a factor in the Western Conference, man. Like, what are we doing? I think I really love Dylan Harper's game. I think they're going to be something. I think it's time.

I'm really glad that they didn't trade for Kevin Durant or Janice and did a cumbo. I think that they did it the right way. So 43 and a half would be a leap of about nine wins. Correct. And they tanked last season as well, Howard, for reference. But still ranked as the eight, well, and Wemby got hurt. Wemby went out with the DBT. Wemby looking like he about to make another Wutang album, dog. Like, it's ready, we're ready to go.

It's time. I'm going 50 wins. I'm not sorry about that. So at 43 and a half, that would be the eighth best team in the West. But as I was saying a few minutes ago, like, there's a whole lot of volatility through that stretch from like four through 10, right? So there's like there's so many different outcomes you're possible. I agree. with you, Logan. Wemby's going to take another leap. Staphaun Castle is going to take a leap. We're going to get a full season of the Deeran Fox Castle back court, plus throw some Dylan Harper in there. They bring in Luke Cornett. They traded for Kelly O'Linnick. There's just a lot of interesting pieces there. And at the center of it all is Wembe and whatever Wembe's partnership as it develops with Fox and Castle. And I think there's a lot to like there. They've got Vassell and Johnson and Sohan. they're just interesting. They're young. They've got a generational talent. Yeah, I'm,

hitting the over too. I don't know that I'm going 50 yet. But I'll go on the, I'll hit the over there. They got a chance to crack the top six. And at minimum, they're at the top end of the plane. That's it, right? Over under on how pissed Howard Beck is right now. Over under on how quickly I'm going to have to take the shower before I go to the arena. There's going to be like a two-minute shower. The arena. Okay, man. All right. That's a, that's, That's Howard motherfucking back live from Vegas. I will see you there tomorrow. Quick programming note.

We'll be back on July 24th. That is 13 days from now. So that'll be our season finale episode. You know how we do on the anniversary episodes. We might have a little award show popping. We might do a little mail bag. Ooh, it's going to be. Maybe Raz is going to be here.

It's going to be popping. Roger? Roger, who? Who? He's still. rental car line. Oh, man. I, I, all the shit.

Bye.