The Ringer NBA Show - Buying Into Analytics and The Advantage of the Multisport Athlete With Dave Roberts

Episode Date: May 7, 2020

Steve and Pete are joined by manager of the Los Angeles Dodgers, Dave Roberts, to discuss how they look at and assess multisport athletes, and how a player's expertise at one sport can translate to another. Later the guys chat about how analytics factor into their respective coaching strategies, how analytics are being utilized for player development, and getting players to live in the present. Hosts: Steve Kerr and Pete Carroll Guest: Dave Roberts This show is raising money for COVID-19 relief. You can help! Donate here! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of Flying Coach on the Ringer podcast network brought to you by World Central Kitchen. Help the heroes in hospitals and clinics who are fighting for us and help keep your local restaurants live. Go to the ringer.com slash WCK to donate, please. If you have the means, it's an unbelievably great and useful cause that helps our hospital heroes, emergency workers, and local restaurants. Give whatever you can. The money goes directly to World Central Kitchen. It's a charitable donation. Once again, that is the ringer.com slash WCK. we started flying coach to raise money for the Warriors Community Foundation

and the Seahawks Charitable Foundation. But as a thank you to all the frontline workers for COVID-19, Pete Carroll and his company Compete to Create are offering a free online course and a high-performance mindset coincidentally called Warriors Edge. You can find it by going to his website at compete to create.net backslash Warriors Edge.

It will be available for free for anyone working with COVID-19 through the end of 2020. of the course is an incredible insider look into Pete's philosophy, culture, and leadership. A lot of the stuff we talk about on this podcast. Coming up, Steve Kerr, Pete Carroll, they're going to talk to Dodgers manager, Dave Roberts. I don't even know if it's legal to have three coaches from three different sports in the same podcast. But we try to right now. Here it is, Flying Coach.

All right, Flying Coach podcast, Steve Kerr and Pete Carroll. And we've got a special guest today. Dave Roberts is going to join us. Pete, you remember week one? you said to me, you know what we got to do? You got to get a baseball coach, football coach, and a basketball coach on one podcast. So here we are. We did it.

I know, this is great. I'm great, but I think this is a pretty unique situation. I'm fired up about it being an all-sports guy myself. So I'm loving that we have a shot to do it. We've got to figure out how to make some sense of this for everybody as they listen. Well, we've got to play a damn game here at some point, too, one of us. But Dave, thanks for coming on, man. This is great to have you.

Big fan. I've been admiring your work from afar and really excited to chat with you today. No, it's great. And I heard about the podcast. So, you know, it takes, I guess, a pandemic to get us all three in the same space. Because, you know, we admire each other. And I've watched you guys for so many years. But it just seems like our paths.

We keep missing each other because of drafts and our season. in. And so this is going to be good to kind of spend some time with you guys. Well, there are a few connections. Pete, I don't know if you know this, but one of our owners with the Warriors, Peter Goober, also part owner of the Dodgers. So that's where Dave and I actually met. I didn't know that. Yeah. Peter Goober introduced two of us several years ago. So I've had a chance to visit Dave in the clubhouse at Dodger Stadium. He's come up to Oracle and come into the coach's office, which was fun. And, of course, you got your L.A. connection, having coached at USC for all those years. And Dave, being a Bruin, so we got a big L.A. connection here.

Get that out of the way. Get it out of the way. You had to tell, I think it was the first broadcast. It was the first broadcast, Dave. He tells me that, you know, he's got to let me know that he's a Bruin fan from all the way back in the day. So you guys are, it's okay. I love meeting guys from UCLA. That's right. That's right. So a couple things with that, Steve. and I'm sure we can get into this too. But yeah, Peter Goober, one of the owners with the Dodgers and his Mandalay production company has done a great job with that last dance.

And so that obviously that's been the talk of sports, you know, watching Michael and obviously with you, Steve. And I got a funny USC UCLA story. So obviously we know Pete's background and me being a former Bruin myself. So there was a point in time when I played for the Giants. and I was fortunate enough to have our equipment manager at UCLA

send me down a Bruin helmet. So one of these games, Pete was at, you know, was sitting behind the third base dugout. And I came out of the game and we had a good lead so I felt a little

levity comedy was okay. And so I went into the clubhouse, grabbed my helmet, my football helmet, come back into the dugout, Pete's, you know, five rows behind the dugout. And then I had to rock my UCLA helmet. So I thought it was funny because Pete took it the way it was meant.

So we've always had our banter back and forth. So Dave, you put the football helmet on your head and looked up at Pete? So we're in probably the seventh, eighth inning. So suffice to say, I'm probably the only major league player that has ever worn a football helmet in the dugout during a big league ball game. Yes. That's incredible. It was well worth it. It was well worth it. That's awesome. That's awesome.

Well, we share that strong L.A. Bond. I know that. I grew up there. And, you know, one of my favorite memories from my childhood was going to Dodger Stadium. My dad used to take my brother and me. We'd sit in the left field bleachers. And so I've been a Dodger fan since, really, since I was about five years old. I would not admit it, though, in the Bay until we actually won a championship. You know, once the Warriors won a championship, then I felt comfortable saying, hey, I like the Dodgers. You had to earn it. Timing is everything.

Absolutely. That's right. Hey, guys, I grew up as an absolute Giants fan. You know, I grew up with Willie Mays, man. I mean, it was like he, to me, is still my favorite guy in sports ever, you know, and just as a little kid watching that guy play and, you know, growing up in just across from San Francisco and all that. So, same thing. Sitting in left field, you know, out there in the cheap seats, you know, and with the buddies is right. growing older, you know, and just those experiences.

And the whole baseball thing for me really was all about the Giants. So there's a lot of crossovers. It's pretty fun. No, there is. And I'll tell you this is that one thing that, you know, and, you know, as we look back on our childhoods or when we were growing up and whether it's football, basketball, or baseball. And I think that we're all three of the mind of continuing to evolve and grow and get better.

And, but I will say this, though, is that when you talk about Willie Mays with the Giants or, you know, players in football that were, you know, that were Niners or they were giants and, like, LT. And to see players now changing teams, it's just different because when we knew sports, we identified not only with the players, but Willie Maids was a giant. And I think that's the fun part where nowadays you can kind of see it evolve into players love and fans, you know, fans loving players. Yeah, there was a big connection.

It was really, it was really meaningful. That was your, that was kind of your makeup as a kid to me, you know, being a Giants fan, being a Niners fan and all that was, and the Warriors fans too. And we grew up, that was the way we did it, you know, and it was great because the same player stayed, like you said, and it was a big deal. I remember a story with Mori Wills.

He was my mentor when I was with the Dodgers and I was a player. Face Steelers. So, that's right. MVP in 1962, and he told me this story. We were on the backfield at Dodger Town back in 2002. And he was like, Doc, let me tell you something. man, he's like, if Willie Mays, if that guy was on the side of the street and his car was broke down, I would ride right by and wouldn't think twice about him, you know?

And it's just that there's no love loss, but there's certainly respect. And he would tell stories about when they would go and play the Giants, they would wet down first base so he couldn't steal. And so those are the fun things I love to hear. And Don Newcomb would share those same stories and Kofax, who's around once in a while. So for me, just like you guys are fans and students of our particular sports and all sports, just hearing those stories is always great. Yeah. It's so fun. It's such great stuff. And, you know, there's a million ways we could go with this conversation. But, you know, we're kind of on this topic of multi-sport athletes,

or at least as kids, you know, the three of us all, it was a different era, right? We just played whatever was in season and then you moved on to the next one. I'm interested, Dave, and Pete and I have talked about this a little bit. We're now in an age of specialization where so many of our athletes, so many of the guys who are playing in our respective sports, have kind of locked in on that one sport. And yet there still seems to be something special about the kid who played multiple sports and that there's some crossover that can actually help you become better in one sport

by playing a different sport. Is that, does that something that you think about in baseball when you, when you develop a player or draft a player? You know what? We think about it quite often. And I think that I was a guy that I played three sports. I played whatever was in season. And I do think that it's interesting. There's numerous layers where, you know, on one side, you see the specialization.

And I would argue that these players that, you know, play baseball year round, the travel ball, I think skill set, wise, they're probably better. But a lot of times in our industry, I call them showcase players, to be quite honest, because, you know, it looks good on paper, the arm strength, the power, you know, the speed. But it's like when you need to get a run in with the infield back in the eighth inning, can you put the ball in play? And can you move it forward and not punch out? And the five o'clock hitters that can hit the ball 500 feet are great. But if you can't take the slug or down below the zone, then it's not going to help you win a baseball game. So I think that when you're playing to showcase and not really playing to help your team win,

which you guys, just like me, we grew up in Little League and it's about team and that kind of DNA, I think that we're missing. And I think that I'm probably a little bit broader, maybe a little bit unfairly, but that's kind of the way I see it. You know, it's interesting. So for us to get, and I talk to our team president all the time about getting players that potentially play multiple sports and specifically quarterback. I was a quarterback in high school,

and I just love the guys that play baseball, but if they could play quarterback for me, that's that intangible thing that, you know, in baseball, there's five tools, but that's sixth thing where people say, can he play? But if you can have another box for me, if he played quarterback, then he has feel, he has awareness, he's an unselfish, he's a team player,

and he's got aptitude. So I like that. So it's interesting. And for you guys, it'd be interesting to hear your guys' thoughts, too. Yeah, I think you guys would be surprised that, like, and my coaches know this, when we do our interviews with the players at the combine or whenever we have guys visit or whenever I talk about, you know, trying to figure out who the guys are, the first thing I ask him is what other sports did you play in school?

And I want to know, you know, what kind of a player they were in that sport, you know, so I'll have said, you know, what position did you play? And, you know, I'm looking for short stops. I'm looking for guys that played down the middle. I'm looking for the pitchers. And if the guy played right field in the Little League, you know, okay, that tells me those big guys, you know. And but it goes to that general awareness that you develop,

which each sport has its unique ways about it, but they all fit together in some sense when it comes down to making the plays you got to make them when it's time to it. Are you going to take the big turn or you're going for it? You know, how are you going to do it? You know, there's so much to that. And it allows me to paint a picture of what kind of a person this guy has become through his background, through his experiences. It's hugely important to me.

So it always will be. I think I can find more information out of that by tracking the guy's sports background than almost anything. Pete, didn't Russell Wilson get drafted by Major League Baseball? Yeah, he's been drafted, I think, a couple times, hasn't he? Might have been by Houston or something like that. He continues to go back to camps. He loves baseball. you know, Dave, do you know much about his makeup or background?

I don't know a whole lot. I love the player, love the guy, and he actually lives down the road for me up the freeway. But I do recall meeting him in spring training when he was with the Rangers. And I think he went back a couple times. And I think I was a coach with the Padres at that time. And saw him take batting practice, saw him take some grounders. One of my favorite teammates of all the time was Agent Beltray. So they had a nice little bond, but to see, you know, Russell on the baseball field was pretty interesting.

Yeah, he's worked out with the Yankees in the last couple years at times in camp. He spent a couple days, you know, and then they let him come on back. He was a second baseman, and it shows up all the time. It shows up all the time in the things that he chooses. He's such an extraordinary athlete, probably as close to a football, baseball guy as anybody, you know, and it's really part of his makeup. You guys are probably not going to be surprised to learn that Steph Curry, was a hell of a baseball player in high school.

Is that right? Yeah, and one of those guys who, you know, you hand him a golf club, he's scratch, you know, you hand him whatever, whatever ball he's going to be really good. But I remember a few years ago, we had a practice during Super Bowl week, and I think our guys were tired,

and instead of having a normal practice, we ended up throwing the football around having some competition where, you know, guys had to partner with one player and do patterns and run through our facility and, you know, complete passes to different spots. And I always kind of, you know, I knew Steph and Clay were great athletes, but to watch them throw the football was incredible. They both have absolute cannons. And then the other guy who can throw a football about 75 yards, got him most Spates, Maurice Spates, who, and here's, and here's,

Here's the thing that ties it all together. They were our three best shooters, too. So I remember thinking to myself after I watched that. It was just for fun. And we just had a good day. It was one of those kind of blow-off days where you just need to blow off some steam. But I remember thinking, you know,

should we be looking for guys who played quarterback or played shortstop or, to your point, who pitched, is having a great arm. somehow connected to also being a great shooter. Is it connected to hand-eye? I don't know the answer, but I know it fit exactly on our team. Yeah, there's no doubt to me. I totally think it fits together.

I've seen connections for years and years. And a guy is not a basketball player, but he's a track athlete and a football player. That tells me a whole lot about his hand-eye coordination, his sense, his spatial awareness, all those types of things. Yeah, I agree. And I think that, you know, and I've never even thought about that. That's interesting, Steve, where I can, you know, as a former quarterback, I can throw a football. I can't throw it, you know, 70 yards like spades you can.

But I can spin the football. And it's kind of like basketball or football. It's like, you know, we talked about Russ earlier. It's like he can spin the football and he can spin the ball. And it's like that's that, you know, being able to repeat that throw. And so now it's kind of like when you shoot a basketball to get the right spin and to be consistent with your stroke. So that's an interesting way to look at it. Yeah, Dave, we're only talking about the most accurate guy ever shooting a hoop.

Right, exactly, right. Pretty amazing. So, and he was, Steve, you told us, I think, the last time about pitching in Dodger Stadium or something, too. So that's a perfect connection. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God, that was so much fun. Dave, I don't know if I ever told you this. I pitched in Dodger Stadium.

My junior and senior year of high school, we made the city finals. And we lost both times. my junior year, we lost 13-0. And the other pitcher threw a no-hitter. Guy by the name of Brett Saberhagen. Oh, wow. Well, he turned out to be a pretty good ball player. He was okay.

He was okay. But unfortunately, I was the pitcher, I came out of the bullpen and got shelled in about the second or third inning. But what a thrill to play in Dodger Stadium. And yeah, it's a different time, you know, now. I mean, back then, we didn't even have the option really to focus on one sport all year long unless you did it on your own. You know, back then it was just, all right, season's over. You move on to the next sport and you just go.

Yeah, and you kind of catch up with everybody, you know, as they get there already getting started playing basketball and you're kind of getting a basketball shape. And then, you know, the baseball players are playing. And then you're trying to get out there and take swings. But the thing that's really that I think that we understand is that those sports are, any sport that you play gives you a different skill set and physically, mentally, that help you in whatever sport you ultimately land in. And I think that to the staff, to the Russell, it's like, you know, baseball that I can speak to is it's a game of failure, you know, that we talk about three out of ten times you fail and you're a success. So there's nothing in life we can do to fail

seven at ten times and we're a success. So to do that and to punch out with the base load and to go out there to deal your position and have to make a play defensively. It's not easy. But I think that that grit certainly helps players and other sports, too. That presents its own challenge as a manager. And I think that's one of the most interesting things about this conversation is that, you know, obviously all three of us are trying to accomplish the same thing. We're just trying to help our players become the best players they can be and in turn help

our team win games. But the sports themselves are so different. Pete, Pete's team spends all week preparing for one game, you know, hours and hours of game planning. You know, you guys have a game every day. We're kind of in between, you know, game every other day. But I'm interested, Dave, in the communication you have with your players. When you have a game every single day, and there's 162 of them, how do you handle that interaction with your team? How can you make that impact that you need to make without being overbearable?

at the same time. Well, it's interesting, is, and I think that we've all lived this where you get into coaching because you love the game. There's a passion. You have the desire to teach. But as a major league manager, your scope obviously broadens, and there's front office, there's media, there's ownership, and obviously the coaches, training staff, and then the players. And the players are always most important, but your time is certainly more limited.

So it's ironic that as you kind of work your way up the ladder, you get less and less time of what got you and what got you initially into coaching and what you love to do. And that's connect with players. So to that question, I try to make a point every single day to touch base with every single player. And fortunately, I don't have to worry about 50, 60 players like Pete does. But I think that I talk to, touch, check in on every single day. and I think for the most part, it's kind of the bench players or the role players

or the relief pitchers. Because the starting pitchers, starting five, the position players that essentially play every day, those guys really are kind of turnkey. Mookie Betts, Corey Seeger, Justin Turner, Cody Bellinger,

but it's the guys that are in the pen that really don't, that want to make sure that you love on them, they know their role, guys that don't play, every one to give them heads up and tell them you still value them. So I do touch base with everybody,

but I really have a keen, sense of those guys. I want to make sure they stay relevant and on board. Well, you were that guy, right? For, I mean, as a player, that was your role too, right? I was. You know, I went from a young player to then I had, you know, five years where I was a starter. Then it goes the other way. You're on the other side. You're on the outside looking in. So to have Bruce Bochie, who's going to be a Hall of Fame manager to say, hey, Doc, I got you in there in a couple days. Just stay ready. I'm trying to get you some at bats. Be ready to pick Barry up when he needs it. But, you know, that's,

Just that bit right there makes me feel like I'm a part of things. And for him to not shun me because I wasn't a starter or Terry Francona when I wasn't a starter coming off the bench in 04 with the Red Sox saying, hey, man, I know your value. You came from the Dodgers in a trade from a first place team. You were a starter. This is not the situation right now, but I value you. I'm going to use you. And that right there, that communication, which you guys do so well, meant the world to me. You know, Steve, that one of the things that really connects it with what Dave's saying here is when you're in college and you have 110 players on your team.

And it was always important to me. And I think we had the same thought about this, Dave, is that during stretch lines, you know, when we're stretched, we take 10 minutes to stretch, get the team stretched out. I always wanted to connect with the guys that were at the back of the lines, which were the walk-on kids. And with the thought that the guys that are playing, they don't need as much love in connection. But it's the guys who have to just keep going out there and grind it. doing it because of the love of the game and they're just they may never play you know and all that that those were the ones that I felt like if if we made that effort to keep them connected and feeling a part of and and whatever the role that we could build with those guys it really was

meaningful it was meaningful to me that I would not ignore those guys you know and I didn't want to that was the last thing I wanted to do so yeah I think that's a real common sense you know and this you get down Steve's got like 12 to 15 guys on his team he goes even smaller he gets to love them up every day, which I would really, I would really love to have that relationship, you know, where you could be that close, that connected that often. Yeah, it's a huge advantage to, to have fewer players. It's easier to communicate. And I'm the same way with you guys as you guys in terms of really trying to stay connected down at the end of the bench. And I played that role most of my career where I was, you know, eight, nine, 10th, 12th man, not playing for a couple

games and it was just so important to hear from my coach to know that I actually mattered on the team. And so that's always been a focus. And I think it's, maybe people don't realize how important those guys are for the overall morale of the team, you know, because if you got the guys on the end of your bench fully engaged and invested and they're all fired up and they're cheering on everybody else and it just becomes contagious. And it's, it's not as, you know, it's not as easy as it sounds because, you know, everybody's jobs are on the line. And Dave, I've watched you guys, you've probably platooned more players. I don't know that I would say than any team I've seen in the big leagues the last few years, that's got to be a juggling act. It is. It is. And I think that,

you know, it kind of goes back to, you know, where we're talking about specialization. And I think that, you know, with baseball, where you have, you know, starters, you have a guy that, you know, to, you know, right-handed specialist, left-handed specialist, you know, we platoon guys. And I think that, you know, obviously our jobs is to, you know, you're sensitive to the players, their emotion. Everyone thinks that they're the best option. But our job is the best interest of the ball club collectively. And I think that for me, day one, that's the message.

And every single day, you know, every player is supposed to believe they can hit righties, hit lefties. And that's what you want from your players and to not be happy when they're sitting in the bench. not getting a start. I get it. And I understand that. That's what I want. But I do believe that we've shown the consistency of using our entire roster. So, you know, whether you start a game, you might come into a big spot in the sixth inning and finish out the last four innings, and you might make the difference in the game. And I think that now with all of our sports, you're talking about workload and you're on the margins trying to give players and your team, ultimately, the best chance for

success. So at any moment, I just feel like we have the depth that we can plug somebody in that gives us an advantage. And however it plays out, we don't know. But I think that when you do play 162 games, that ultimately that's the way it'll end up ultimately the way you kind of forecast it. And our guys have looked back over the last five years and said, hey, you know what? I am valued. I'm not getting 600 plate appearances, but my 525 and spread out and I'm a team guy, this guy's taking 75, this guy's taking 75, being ready when called upon, I think it's made our

ball club better. And again, when you're talking about 162 playing through October, you need your whole roster. Yeah. Can you feel it like when you're dealing with the guys that there's just time, sometimes you know, you watch a guy, you're watching handling the disappointment of

not playing as much or the frustration of it. Do you find that at times you'll play guys just because you know they need it? Absolutely. Yeah. I know that that's I agree with that to you. You have to find your way to keep them because we got to keep nurturing their mentality as best we can so they can stay strong and be ready and alert and ready for the opportunities. Yeah. So I've had a chance to watch Pete at work.

He's been great to invite me a couple times to Seattle. And with 53 guys on the roster and another five or six on the practice squad, I almost look at Pete as like a butterfly. He's just floating from one group to the next and just trying to hit. on every group. But Pete, one thing I've never asked you, out of the 53 guys, is everybody pretty much playing because of special teams? Or are there guys on your team who don't get any snaps? Yeah, no, rarely there are there guys that don't play week in, week out. You know, everybody's, they have some role, you know, we'll play basically with eight offensive linemen, give or take, you know, it depends on the game. But those guys, the backups generally don't play,

but they play on some special teams. You know, they get on field goal stuff, but they're always on the ready. But for the most part, everybody goes because of the special teams aspect of it. And if a guy can't play on special teams and he's just sitting on the roster, sitting on a bench, there's not many of those guys because we need everybody. How do you manage to stay connected with so many human beings? Not to mention all your coaches, because you don't just manage your players. You manage your coaches.

You manage your staff. There are so many people in that room. So how do you manage that? It's amazing. Well, just try to keep bouncing. Just like you said, it's kind of like being the butterfly. You know, you just keep bouncing around and use all the opportunities. Some of the moments, it's really in moments.

It's like as you're waiting to go in the meeting room or another part of the segment of the team is in there and you're in the hallway, those are important exchanges, you know. And find guys in the lunchroom, you know, in the stress lines and just the in between moments that we capture are really crucial. So I know that it probably doesn't always make the guy feel great, but I'm feeling like I'm working at it, you know, and I try to keep that relationship going because you need to love these guys up, you know, because you don't, in an instant, we need them to win the freaking game, you know, and so we want them right and primed. And so it's just an ongoing process to try to keep nurture and, you know, keep the connection. Yeah, you know what? And also I was going to say is it's interesting.

It's like one of the things that I can see from both you guys that, you know, we can't have a bad day. And I think that, you know, being, you know, relentlessly positive, I think is very powerful. And, you know, Steve, yourself and Pete, you know, running around from group to group. And with that energy, it's like, that's what players look to. And we've played and we know the grind and how difficult it is. But to see, you know, the guy that's kind of running the ship being positive and showing energy, I had one of the biggest compliments I had was Justin Turner said that, you know, if I see Dave Roberts, our manager, positive every single day, then I can't let him down. That's the way I have to be.

And, you know, and it's like that's what you expect from yourself, your coaching staff, because, you know, it's tough. And the way I kind of manage things is when things go well, I sort of back off. When things are going well, I push them. and I get on them because I don't want the fear of complacency, but when things are going bad and, you know, we're losing five or six, that's when I kind of pick them up, pat them on the butt, say, hey, man, keep going.

And let's keep trusting the process. How have you been able to kind of blend in the whole analytics side? Because in all of our sports, everything's changed with the addition of analytic staffs and so much more information that's coming our way. and I'm sure baseball has had the biggest impact of any sport. But I'm really interested in the process, Dave, in which you receive information, how you use it,

how it gets to the players and going from there. I think the thing that, first off, is some of the best people that I've learned from have been outside of my industry and sports. And so now if you look at it from that lens, and understanding that all industries value and need information to continue to get better to grow. And I think that baseball should be no different and sports should be no different. And I think that with baseball in particular, we've always been about statistics.

But, God, when I was playing, I knew analytics in the sense of this guy likes to throw a heater up and in with two strikes. Or Kurt Schilling, when he doesn't throw his split unless he gets. to two strikes. So Mariano Rivera, he doesn't throw over more than two times. Those are things that now we can quantify. But it's always been there. Pete can talk to Willie Mays and say,

yeah, I know that I hit better right-handed than left-hand or whatever. And then those are things that the managers now have and now with social media, people, fans, media are more, they have this access to this information now. you know, I think for me, it's just being open to it and how the coaches certainly have to have the buy-in to then disseminate to the players. But yeah, Steve, it was tough early, but I think that our guys are starting to soften. And when you get not only great players, but smart players,

they start to, they can understand it better too. How about you, Pete? How do analytics factor into your well, we're, you know, we're trying to be at the cutting edge of it. We want to know everything that there is to know. And I'm fine about all of the information coming to me and we have our ways to interpret it to kind of make sense of it because there's so much stuff that you could go with. But I do think that it comes to the point where it's like any situation or any decision I have to make. I want all the information laid out in front of me and then I'm going to go for what feels right. But I trust the analytics and I trust the numbers to inform us. But then there's still that next step. It isn't just about the mechanics of that. And I would think,

Dave, you guys have so much stuff and so, you know, with every pitch and every, you know, every position on the field and all that stuff. Our stuff, it comes down to, for me, I'll have four or five situations in a game when the real analytics that come to me where the decision is going to be based on should we or should we not, you know? I love those situations. I mean, that's what coach for you know, if you get to do something, you know, because otherwise I'm watching the game and cheerleading and having fun. you know, chewing a gum and all that. But the information, and I want the information to come on a regular flowing basis, not just,

boom, okay, you should do this. You know, I want to have the buildup of the accumulation of the numbers and how they fit to situations so that there can be a strategy to utilize the information that you get. Do you have a guy who's standing next to you or somebody in your ear where, you know, let's say there's a, I don't know, you know, fourth and three, if you're midfield and you're down nine points or something. And, you know, it's one of those ones where... You're going for it. Yeah, well, I know he's going for it. I know. But if we're sitting in the stand, Dave, you and I are sitting in the stands and you say, you got to punt it here and

trust your defense. And I go, no, I think you got to go for it. Obviously, somebody in your organization, Pete, has said it's, you know, if we go for it, we have a 53.7% chance of winning or whatever the number is. Do you have somebody with you all the time constantly sharing that? No, I don't have him on the headphones with me, but I'm prepared throughout the time to look for the opportunities in the situations. And my guy that I lean on the most, Brian Ayers, he'll get to me a message if I need it during the game, what's going on if the numbers or the stats or something that are important to us. But we've basically done the work ahead of time so that the game can flow and we're not back.

and forth with it. Because I pretty much know how we want to go. We want to be as aggressive as we can. We want to go for it whenever the opportunities. You're right, Dave. Particularly back in the days at SC when we were really good, we'd go for it all the time because you guys are going to make it. You know, they're going to come through. Well, the league's a little more evened out. So there's more decisions like that. But Steve, I would ask you that, like, say like when you have to make a decision like that, whether you're taking a foul or not and the clock's winding down and there's 13, 14 seconds left, you know, how many, or say it's like 30 seconds. How many do we want to go with the next opportunity, you know, for possession and stuff like that. I mean, you don't have time

to look, I don't think. You've already prepared yourself for that, I think, because, and you have to play the game, too. So I think as much as the analytics are available to us, and they help us in so many ways, we still have to play the game and play the situation and play the people in the game, too, you know? Russell Wilson, he'll defy those darn numbers so many times, you know, if you just keep getting chances, he's going to turn a game around, you know, but you've got to keep giving them the chance and keep putting them out there. And so I think it's just, it's a blend. We have to blend the stuff.

But I have, it's always there when I need it. And, you know, we have our guys with their charts and stuff like that that are always, have different guys that I go to for the different situations. I think the biggest thing in basketball right now is, as far as analytics are concerned, is the shot chart. You know, everybody now is trying to avoid the mid-range shot, take more threes, more paint shots, more free throws. And so we have, that's the kind of information.

we're getting, and we see each individual players shot patterns. And then it's up to us to figure out what all that means and what we want, right? And so then we've got to communicate to our players, hey, you know what? If Steph Curry wants to shoot a 15-footer, he gets to shoot a 15-footer, right? Because he's the best shooter in the world. So go ahead and shoot whatever shot you want, Steph. You know, but if it's, you know, you guys over here, you know, here are your percentages. And, you know, and so how do you communicate that, right?

It's tough because you don't want to tell a guy, hey, you're not that great of a shooter. But so it's the way you present it. You present it with video. And the way we try to do it is, is to remind our guys that, you know, in basketball, ball movement, the ball always moves faster than the defense, right? And so if you can, if you got 12 seconds on the shot clock, you're, you got a 15 footer, but you got a guy all over you, put it on the floor one time, move it on, let the next guy make the play and use that shot clock to try to get a better shot.

And those things are all quantifiable, right? And it's up to us to try to figure out, you know, how to use them. But I think what's most interesting to me is we're now entering the age. And I know this is true in baseball, in basketball too, where analytics are really entering the player development side. You know, I mean, I read Moneyball by Michael Lewis. It was amazing. But I guess we're now beyond, everybody knows working the count is great because you get to the bullpen faster. You know, a walk is this, you know, guy on base and you don't want to, you don't want to steal too much and get thrown out.

We've figured all that stuff out. But now I'm reading about how player development is being or how analytics are being used for player development. Can you talk about that a little bit, Dave? Yeah, well, I think that it's starting earlier. And I think that's a good thing. As far as young players are being exposed to it at an earlier age, where you get guys that are already on major league rosters that, you know, I mentioned Justin Turner, Clayton Kershaw. who are, you know, all-stars every year. So now this stuff that's being introduced,

those sometimes can be the most resistant because they've had great success without it, right? So now when you get these younger generation that are open to it or exposed to it at an earlier age, they understand the language. But I think to what Pete said, which is something that us as coach has always got to be mindful of is the gut, the eyes, the heartbeat of the player,

certainly always has and will matter. So it's like, and I think that even now you see players in bullpen sessions where you've got these cameras and looking at spin and release point and what the characterist of the baseball is doing. And you've got guys in a hitting cage and you have cameras and computers that are saying exit velocity, the angle of the baseball coming off where these guys sometimes have a tendency to go to these analysts instead of talking to the coaches. And it's like, wait a minute here. I get the end result. but your mechanics when you're pitching, your delivery certainly matters, which reflect these numbers. Now, let's not forget this. And also, just trying to hit the ball at 18 degrees and hit it 110 miles off the bat,

you know, you got to still stay connected to the ground. You know, your elbow's got to be in there. You can't be casting. So there's other things. And also, now you're not can't forget about the compete. What's he trying to do to you? You know, you got to go out there and put all that stuff out, block that noise out, and still be a competitor at the end of the day. So as a coach, that's what I kind of have to manage as well.

Yeah. Let me ask you guys this one. We have a concept that we use, we refer to it as player's mind. And we're trying to, in all of our teaching and all of our coach, and we're trying to get the guy to get in the frame of mind where he's just playing the game. And I think it goes to exactly what you're talking about as I interpreted David, that, you know, the player's mind to me is the reactive, responsive, natural, you know, in the game, not in the stats, not in the numbers, not in the score, not in the standings, not in the stats, whatever, and get them out of that. We can coach them so much that they're thinking about so many things that you can't flow and freely play like we're capable of playing. So I think that is, that's part of our art is to help these guys use the information,

find the frame of mind that allows that to have a place. But yet we, I mean, I'm asking you guys, are you in tune with that thought that you've got to get your guys to that natural instinctive modality so that they can function where they can really go with their best? Is that, that's how I talk it. Do you guys, does that make sense to you guys? Yeah, no doubt. I mean, it's, you know, that mind-body connection.

And Pete, I know you and I have talked about the inner game of tennis, the great book by Tim Galway that we've both referred to many times, just, you know, trying to find that that zone, that sweet spot where we can get our players to compete without thinking, right? Your body and your mind are just connected. But that's kind of the secret, right? Like, that's what everybody is trying to reach. And I would think, Dave, especially in baseball, you talked about earlier in the podcast. I mean, seven out of ten times the best players in the game are failing. So how do you keep that flow and that freedom of thought and freedom of the beauty of just competing without letting all those stats and numbers weigh on you when you're getting out seven, eight times out of ten? I think it applies essentially to everything.

And this is the way I try to live. And I've learned as a manager, you know, the criticism, the scrutiny, you know, what you're under every single night. And I think for me, it's living in the present. And I think that, you know, where you have failures that at times bleed into the, to the next at bat, the next game, you have successes sometimes that leads to complacency or you want to try to do get more. You know, you hit a homer and I want to hit a homer 400 feet. I want to hit a homer 500 feet this time. And then you get long and you're swinging, you pop it up and you're throwing your bat down the first baseline. So I think that, and thinking about winning a World Series, we've lost two World Series in four years, but you can't win the World Series in February or March or right now we're in May.

So I think that for us to kind of, you know, what I tell our guys is whatever we're going to, whatever we can collectively to win one baseball game. And that's all we care about. And whether you start, you're on the staff, you're a strength and condition. I don't care what you do. That's the only thing we care about. And so being in the present, I think, and that's pitch to pitch. And it's easier just to kind of manage it to dominate that one moment than it is to kind of have that baggage of the past with you.

Steve, you know, one of the things about baseball, it's so fantastic, incredibly unique about baseball, you're just one pitch away, just that next pitch. You could be going, you might have gone 0 for 12, but that next pitch, you knocked the hell out of it and it feels so sweet and the whole world shifts. and you could be back just based on that one instant. Same thing with throwing a pitch and winning. I love that about baseball because it just comes down to that next swing. And that is, to me, is the positive.

It's the optimism. It's always just one swing away from you. You're back on again. And we can talk ourselves into and out of slumps and all kinds of stuff, which has to happen. And that one pitch could be so much. It's not quite like that in football to me. It's that football doesn't seem the same.

And I don't, I don't even know. I don't. Do you think basketball is Steve? because I would think maybe not. It's not quite the same. But I don't know, I don't know how you feel, Pete, but I always thought like there's nothing as pleasing as crushing a baseball. I know.

Like that feeling of like you get the barrel on the bat, you know, and you make that contact and the feeling the rush you get when that ball sails out, you're running the bases. Man, fun stuff. It's great. It's great. And I think that that's what's interesting. is about, you know, our sports and, you know, you're playing 82 games, you're playing 16,

you're playing 162, and there's just different things that it would be hard pressed for any one of our athletes to try to go out there and play, let alone dominate and get through one of those seasons. And there are just so many things. And I just love hearing your guys's perspective, because one thing that I've always admired about you guys is you always make it about the players. and that sure shows through. Well, appreciate it. And I think that- Hey, can I hit you guys one thing?

I don't know if you're wrapping up or not, but I wanted to ask you guys this question. In baseball, you play 162. You play 82. You play 82 in basketball. We play 16. I've often thought that our games, if we lose a game, it's like for Dave,

like you lost 10 in a row. And then you win a game, it's like you won 10 in a row. You know, when you add it up, And it's just, it's so hard to imagine what it would be like to swing your season. Okay, one 10. Oh, we got beat the next week. We lost 10 games. Our game seems so, it's so condensed in the focus.

And I don't know if that's why it's, you know, it is what it is. But it's just so different in that regard. Because you get to come back and rejuvenate and relive and come back to life so much quicker than we get to it. I admire that you guys get that one. Maybe I envy it more is what I should say. I don't know. I think that baseball in many ways has to be really difficult because the game can swing so easily. There's such a small margin of difference, right? If you have the best record in baseball, Dave, and you play the team with the worst record in baseball, you could lose easily.

You know, pitch your pitch is a great game. They make a couple plays. Like, it's not really an upset. It just happens. And so that's the thing that I think would be the hardest is, and you've felt it. You know, you've had an incredible run. You've had all these great teams. You've been right there. Ball bounces one way or the other, and you don't quite, you know, get over the hump in the World Series. But it seems so random. It seems like there's just a, you know, like flip a coin sometimes.

Yeah, absolutely. And that's the thing about baseball where I think that you have to, If you don't have a process and believe in the people that are around you, you're going to drive yourself mad because you can't figure it out. You can run into a hot pitcher. You can run into, you know, Rendon, hit Clayton Kirchall slider that's three inches above the ground, off the ground for a homer. And it just, that's the thing.

That's a great thing about baseball. But it isn't one of those things where the best team, you roll them out there. and the probability of you're winning, it just because, yeah, you get that hot pitcher. Guy, it's a three-run homer, then that could be the difference in the game. And then you play, if you play 162, then the best team wins out, right?

Like, over time, that's how you determine who's a better team, right? Over time, over 162 games, that's going to be determined. But then you go into the first round, you play three out of five. That doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand why that. why that's the case. And then four out of seven. Seems like every round should be four out of seven,

but I don't know. I feel the same way. And I'll tell you right now, it's, it's not 16 or 82, but this year, it's going to be interesting to see once we get ramped up. And hopefully, I'm still hopeful we still do have baseball, but it's going to be more of a sprint than we've ever, you know, been around. So, you know, when you're talking 80, 90, 100 games, it's certainly different than the 162 that we're used to. So, I might have to pick your guys' brains on the urgency of a shortened season. Yeah. Well, I think we're going to be watching you probably because, well, I know I will.

We're out of the playoffs already. So if the NBA comes back, you know, our team is pretty much done. I think baseball would be the first to start, right? And then football, well, I guess I'm getting ahead of myself. The NBA playoffs could start before anything. We don't know anything. We don't know. We don't know.

We can all say that together. We don't know nothing right now. You're right. You're right. I don't know. People would love to tell. I sure miss watching. I miss sports.

I know I speak for everybody. I just miss having a game on. You know, I miss coming home and looking forward to whatever game it is, whether an NBA playoff game or Dodger game or, you know, it's just weird without sports. And I sure appreciate, Dave, you coming on and sharing.

your thoughts and your vision about what it's like to be a coach in baseball. It's awesome stuff. Well, I appreciate you guys. This is good, Pete. This is good, Steve. This is fun, man. It's fun. I'm glad you got to put us back in the baseball mind because it's kind of that time of year,

you know, and all. It is. It's fun to put us back in it. Well, we'll figure it out someday. We'll get this thing worked out, guys. All right, guys. Take care. Thank you.

Awesome stuff. Thanks, Dave. All right. See you guys. See it. All right, thanks to Pete and thanks to Dave and thanks to Steve Kerr. Don't forget to go check out the Warriors Community Foundation and the Seahawks Charitable Foundation. And if you want to help World Central Kitchen, go to the ringer.com slash WCK.

And if you want to go check out Pete's website, it's compete to create.net backslash where's edge if you want to talk about it. And if you want to take that course that we discussed earlier, flying coach will return next week. See that.