The Ringer NBA Show - Can a Mid-Season Trade Help Your Team's Hump Proximity? | The Answer

Episode Date: February 8, 2023

Kyle and Seerat get together on the eve of the NBA trade deadline to talk about how mid-season trades can alter a franchise's championship trajectory. They begin their conversation by dissecting Seerat's birthday pickup game and the Kyrie Irving trade to the Mavericks. This leads to an examination of some organizations around the league who could be looking to add an extra piece this year to retain their dominance, particularly the Bucks, Nets, and Celtics (13:45). Next, they focus on the Memphis Grizzlies and debate if they should be adding another star to their roster while seeing comparisons to how the Bad Boy Pistons were built back in the day (32:43). Finally, they provide some trade advice for the Kings and Nuggets to uplift their rejuvenated brands (55:12). Hosts: J. Kyle Mann and Seerat Sohi Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins *The Ringer NBA squad is coming to Salt Lake City for NBA All-Star Weekend! Get your tickets here!* Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping everybody? This is Logan Murdoch from Real On I have some big news to share on Saturday, February 18th, the Ringer NBA show will be hitting the road for All-Star weekend for a live show in Salt Lake City. You heard that right. We are taping the pod in front of a live audience in Salt Lake next month and we want you to join us. Pull up on us at the stateroom in the heart of downtown Salt Lake. You can grab your tickets now at thestateroom.com. That's the stateroom.com. Doors open at 9 o'clock. Show is at 10. It's going to be a 21 and up event. come hang with the gang and chat mid-season updates draft preview and even have a Q&A with us space is limited so grab your tickets while they last at the stateroom.com or click the link in the description of this show hope to see y'all in there it's basketball is very very very good it's incredible and what an exciting time of the year and what an exciting person to talk about it with this is the answer my name is jcom man we we sort of contemplate the greater mysteries like like aspiring maesters i don't know if we're quite

Maester level, but we're like training, like Sam Wise at the Citadel. I'm joined by Syriott Sohe, the poet laureate of Edmonton. It's her birthday. I just want to say up front, are you private about your birthday or you don't care? No, I love attention. I know that about you, but you did post about it a lot. So I guess, you know, you were. Yeah, I feel like other people posted it and I reposted it. Which counts. I would just, I would just slightly amend that a little bit, you know, I just, I wouldn't want anyone to feel if I was going to repost one person's birthday post. I just wouldn't want anyone else to feel left out. So that's it. That's what it was. I guess it'd be funny if you like went on there and we're like, it's my birthday today. Like,

but just do an original post. That would be, that's kind of odd, I guess. It's not about like an aging thing. It's more just, there are certain types of attention that I just don't really like. I don't know. And whenever I say that to people, they're always like surprised. They're like, well, you used to like play music and you have like a public facing job. Birthdays, like, there's nothing more horrifying to me than like being the center of the room while people sing happy birthday to me and I used to like work at this company that took it really seriously and they were like everybody's birthday we got to do this pomp and circumstance every time and I remember not long after I started there I went to the girl who ran it and I was like I was like hey I don't really

I was like can you just take me off and she looked at me like I had said something horribly offensive. She was like really horrified by that. Really? I don't think that's that uncommon, you know, like especially in a setting like that. Like, it can be very uncomfortable to be the center of attention, especially, you know, we all have birthdays. I understand that. Once your birthday again? Nope, not happening. Not saying that. Sorry, not going to have it. You were born in. You were born in Louisville, right? Not, it's not, I'm not going to say it. But I was, you had some interesting things going on. What time? I'm just, you can just quit. You can just quit. I'll just say it was Baptist East in Louisville.

That's all you're going to get out of me. So if you want to go thumb from my medical records, I don't think that's going. It's actually an important part of the formula. So I appreciate that. Okay. You're going to go on one of those, like, look up their email or number sites and figure it out. It's not that hard. Your B-Day has been sort of had some interesting things orbiting it.

I feel like your life has been sort of like a TV show lately from some of the stories that you've told me, both involving different types of pickup, but different types. types of pickup. And I saw that, well, I saw that you were doing some hoop and on your, on your B-Day. Did you get a good run in? Yeah, I don't have any crazy stories, unfortunately, although, you know, we, we switched up a lot. I was in the backyard of a friend of a friend, but also now, who is now a friend? Are they a millionaire? Because that was like a really nice basketball court. Are you friends with, you friends with Adam McKay? Whose house was that? It was. You don't have to actually say who's house was. Okay. Yeah, well, it's going to, it's going to be a little

convoluted. So, but yeah, it was a good session. I made some new pals, which was good. And there is actually, we switched the teams around a lot. And one of the teams I was on, me and my friend Chris, who's a lost boy Crow on Instagram, check out his music. Very good. And

Sam Miller. We we ran the same team over and over again. We won three straight games in a row. We were playing a sevens and we went 21 and 0. like we shut we shut out three straight games uh that's the only real that's the only real story I have it was like small ball team a lot of shooting uh I was just you know grinding underneath the basket trying to box out trying to keep

people from getting second chance points and usually where they put the lesser skill players we had some real shooters on the team so yeah okay I took a shot at you there yeah did you play pickup this weekend or this week you play you played quite you played quite a bit of pickup I feel like every time I talk to, you were coming back or going to a game. I play probably three or four times a week. Nice. Caves don't get really sore.

That's always my issue. Speaking of being sore, Dallas fans seem like they're a little sore. I know we don't want to dwell on it. I know there's a lot of sort of, there's a lot of dialogue out there about this, ad nauseum. We don't need to be the sole people that cover this. I know, but the Kyrie trade went down. I just wanted to put it out there.

My only take that I want to say, because I know every take is possible. has been out there. I had some people ask me what Charks would have said about it. Bill and I were talking about this yesterday. I weirdly, your impulse is to say that Charks would have hated that trade, but I kind of feel like he would have done something contrarian and said like, oh, Dallas is going to win the title now. My one thought about that trade was, is, I want to watch it. I just want to watch it. I'm really excited. This doesn't happen very much for me, but I was like, I was like Googling constantly kind keeping an eye on almost like a release date for something. I was trying to see when the debut is going to be because I wrote this down in my notes

that like I feel like the Kyrie Luca dynamic is going to be like the cocaine bear of basketball. I feel like it's going to be like horribly chaotic and hectic and people might die, you know, hopefully not. But I just think that I really cannot wait to watch it. I think they could score 125 and give up 130, but I don't know. I'm bizarrely fascinated to see how this plays out. I'm equally as excited for cocaine bear. But you don't think you don't think it could go well?

No, I do think it could go well. Like, it could be, I mean, they could be unguarable. I mean, they could put some, like, I always think of basketball, like a flow chart where, you know, the better the players, the more dynamic the players you are, the more that flow chart sort of like does that exponential thing. Like when each person touches the ball, there's some people who are like not very dynamic. If you think about like Andre Roverson, when he used to catch the ball, his flow chart was pretty limited. It was like one of two things. It was like he was going to drive or not. You think about like Luca and Kyrie, if you have those two like main offensive silos, like all of the variables that kind of ripple out from them.

And he like, architectically, I guess, it's similar to the Kyrie LeBron dynamic. If you were going to think about like who's the most offensively dynamic person we could put next this heavy load guy. I know he's up and down Mercurial, but like, Kyrie is he fits that bill. I mean, it's hard. It's an arguable, I would say. I really like the Kyrie

LeBron comparison with this deal. The only difference I'd say is that LeBron could have used that guy to close games. Not to say that LeBron can't close games. That's not what I'm saying. But Luca does not need that at all. Luca is

going to be the guy that wants the ball in his hands. And sometimes when there's a big superstar trade, I think we get bogged down in the argument of like, okay, well, who's going to close? Who's going to have the ball on their hands? I think in this case, it might be an actual situation because these are two guys that you want to have the ball in their hands at the end of a possession, right? Like, I'm going to be curious how it looks. Like, that could work out really well because if I'm an opposing defense and it's like there's 10 seconds left to go in the game, both of those guys are a matchup nightmare. And I also just, You know, they have a lot of shooters around.

They have lob threats. They have, you know, like stretch fours. Like, they have all the kind of right role players that you'd want to have. It almost reminds me of Houston, like the James Hardin, Chris Paul dynamic, where they actually did a pretty good job of taking turns now. Like, that is also, I think Chris Paul and Hardin probably playmake in similar ways that Kyrie and Luca don't. That's the one place I kind of worry about it where Kyrie can just be a ballstop.

sometimes. As scintillating as he is to watch, he's also kind of like... No. No way. Where did you hear that? I know. I know. I know. I know. Is that from crunching tape that you concluded that? I know you were guzzling grinding tape? All weekend, baby.

All weekend. Yeah. Yeah. I just think that could be a situation. But I think it's really just going to take subtle changes in both those guys' games. Like, Luca's just at the highest usage rate that he's ever played at. And I imagine he wants to take that down. We're talking before the show about, you know,

Luca as a player who plays with a lot of spirit. I think, like, you can't necessarily take away some of the things that maybe he likes to do in his off time because he's just a guy who runs on fun and enjoying life. And if you take that away from him, maybe he just loses his spirit. But I think if you look, if you really watch, like, his facial expressions for the last. few months, he looks a little burdened. He looks a little overburdened with the task that he has. He's not having as much fun as he used to.

So hopefully this takes some of the load off of him. And hopefully he's happy to do that. He apparently, you know, he was in favor of the trade. So I imagine that probably is the case. It's a hard life to live where if you're just like throwing, if you're swinging for home runs every time you make a pass, like in the ball dominant style that he does. And if players miss shots, I don't know.

If you're not like in a flow where you're getting rid of it, like not every pass is like life and death. And I feel like Trey plays like this sometimes too where, you know, obviously really talented scores. And then if they get in a situation, usually it tilts towards I'm going to be the threat of my offense causes this sort of pressure release. And I pass to somebody. And when you're kind of living and dying by like if I don't score, there's going to be one pass to somebody. And if they miss that shot, I just see the frustration is going to build. Like I think if like that that to me is where Luca needs to sort of shift his game.

I don't know if that was as hard for Hardin because Hardin played as a connector in OKC. Like he was like that was my favorite version of him honestly when he used to just come off the bench and like get it, get rid of it, score. He was a nightmare to deal with. But Luca, I still feel like needs to make that shift. Yeah. I actually really like this on the net side too. Yeah. Like it's it's something that, you know, me and Rob kind of went back and forth when the trade happened.

And we tackled it together, which was good because, gosh, it's just like there's a lot of unruly possibilities that come out of Kyrie trade, like with all the KD implications. But the Nets look pretty good. And I think they found a level of stability that eluded them in the Kyrie era. Shocker. But they are, they're actually pretty well positioned right now. And obviously, if it turns into a situation where Katie wants out, I imagine at this point, it's Tuesday, February 7th. we're recording this. Trade deadline is about 50 hours away at this point. We haven't heard anything yet, so I imagine Katie is going to run this with the guys that he's got this season. And

this team is very interesting. And they are kind of on the cusp and that's kind of what we're going to talk about today. So, Kyle, I know you are a thinker of the game. You like to think conceptually about it. You like to coin phrases. Like, you just, you just, you are a think think thinker of the game. You like to think conceptually about it. You like to coin phrases. Like you just, you know this pattern really well. No,

look, it's a, it's a compliment. And, and of course, of course, you would take, you love,

you love taking all, every compliment that I give you and turning it into an insult. I'm actually going to pull up our text chain. I deflect it. Like a, I saw you doing that today. This was,

this was absolutely hilarious. I deflect it. So it got like a lightsaber. Like, so it comes back at you. So I'm just like, you know, that's what we're always kind of wrestling with there. I told you you did a good job with a rundown and you said, yeah, I can be a little creatively manic. No one said that.

No one said that. You just brought that in. You just brought that in for no reason. Well, let's, where did your creativity take you today? No, I was revisiting something that I had worked on in the past. Also, when I said, you know, creatively manic is another word for I hadn't eaten a big breakfast and I drank like a crap ton of coffee. I was just like sitting here like I was sitting at my desk listening to like I don't know like Kendrick Lamar or something really really loud at my desk and I came back out Meg was like it's kind of loud like one of the coders and social network. Yeah, I just had kind of like work myself into a frenzy I think and like step back and be like oh that was a little that was a little phonetic.

So but it made me the midseason thing and the Kyrie midseason thing made me revisit something that I had pondered in the past which was what can a midseason trade even. do? What is the scale? What is the range? What are the types of players that are usually on the move and available? And what are the types of teams that are playing in this space? And I kind of, the two categories that I put it into was, you know, usually it's a team that has, and this is the first group, it's the shot in the arm. It's the team that has proven themselves in the past, but they just kind of are trying to keep the balloon in the air and like elongates or pave more runway for their extent, whatever metaphor you want to use, widen the window.

There are a couple of those, there are only like three examples of that leading to a title. In 2007, the Spurs who were sort of like trying to keep it going, added Nasi Muhammad at the deadline. And he wasn't a star, but he was a starter level player. And he helped them sort of bridge, that gap and gave them some depth to pair with Timmy, and that helped them. And then in the late 80s, the Lakers added Michael Thompson, who was a former number one pick, and then in 1995, which that helped

Kareem. And then in 1995, the Rockets, who were fresh off of a title, added an unhappy Clyde Drexler from the Portland Trailblazers. So that's the example of that. Kyrie follows, I was just kind of, we've talked about like the grumpy superstars across the league. I don't know, like, Kyrie was probably the highest impact, like, discontent player that was out there. I feel like that really affected the board, right? There's nothing comparable like that out there. Is there, like a star level player? Yeah, definitely.

I think that's what made this trade deadline kind of weird. We're pretty used to at this point having some discontented superstars up there. And also probably what made a guy like OG on and Ovi so valuable for a bit there. And maybe, maybe again, I think after the trade, I think some teams were inquired. about how Kevin Durant really feels. But yeah, it's definitely, it's a, it's an interesting situation. I feel like this is a deadline that has a lot more of the Sean the Arm guys that you're talking about to, there's a lot of role players on the board.

There's a lot of teams that, like, could use that. If you look at, you know, the J. Crowder to Milwaukee stuff that we've been hearing about that you have to assume with the amount of noise there is probably going to be something that happens. Yakut Perthal has been on the board for a while. And a lot of contending teams want him too. We've heard him link to the Celtics, which is kind of the perfect example of that, right?

Like, if they need anything, they actually had an interesting version of that last trade deadline with the Derek White trade that I think was everybody kind of agrees now that that was a perfect deal for them. They needed a little bit more guard depth. He's an excellent defender, great three and D guy, who is never going to be, you know, you don't worry about integrating him. And he's also, this might be key with these types of moves, especially mid-season,

he's not going to be the guy who comes in and completely changes what you do, right? Like, I think bringing in Kyrie, that changes what you do. I would be curious now. I didn't really, I wasn't, I wasn't necessarily grinding tape the way that I am now in 95. I would be curious if you have. any special, not necessarily. Do you have any special insight on what it was like for the

Rockets to integrate Drexler? And this was a year after they won their first championship, right? Yes, this was the following season. And Kareem was, or not Kareem, Hakeem, got my Eams mixed up there. He was actually out. And they'd kind of had a weird,

it was almost sort of, I don't know, I'm trying to think of like another team that, like, won a title and came back and struggled to do it. I mean, it's kind of warriorsy, honestly, but the Warriors had a lot more precedent than those rockets had because that was in the Michael Jordan lull. I was thinking the other day about how like that that rocket's era was so strange because you don't remember this, but like 1994 was like a really just terrible time to be a sports fan kid because there was the MLB lockout, Jordan retired. It was a dark time

anyway, digression. But for them, I think that they, I forget who they actually sent away in that deal. It might have been Otis Thorpe. I think that was a part. of their first championship run there. But yeah, he gave them sort of a, it was a big shot in the arm, I would say. You know, and I was going to ask you, too, you mentioned Milwaukee. I think that's a key one there. They're a team that is, they're not going to, I don't think that they really need to or that they're interested in tweaking the core of their identity.

I don't even know that they could land somebody that could do that at this point unless they did something wild, like they just like did surgery, identity surgery, and got Kevin Durant. do you think I mean what do you think Crowder is like the way they should be thinking what should Milwaukee be thinking in terms of like retooling and keeping the

keeping the balloon in the air I think that's definitely the right direction for them they're really their success hinges on their core being healthy right and Chris Middleton is playing better now I think he's kind of looking more like the Chris Middleton that we expect to see Janus is back doing

Janus things they're kind of they're actually they might be in a position to round into form kind of at the perfect moment. So for them to add extra wing help and also to steal from the sons who were who they played in the finals, I think like that definitely helps too.

And also you just don't want anyone else to get him. I think that's part of it at this level too. And yeah, I think they are, they're really well positioned. A little extra wing help definitely helps, but they don't really need too much else. I think the front court is great. Obviously

if you have injuries to Janus or Brooke, then you're kind of like, it doesn't really matter what happens from that point on. Sometimes you can kind of steal in sneaky ways. I'm not acting like you want to do this, but sometimes when guys are out and sometimes when there's like a disruption, like,

you know, the Bucks had those runs where they were just pulverizing people in the regular season, but they've been doing this a while now. This is a team that's stacked up a lot of playoff runs in a row and talking about peaking at the right time, like you were saying, they kind of like sneaky stolen some rest for their guys.

You know, Middleton has been out. And I'm sure he's been working. But as we know, like game action and playoff game action specifically. And Yonis being out too, it is possible that what you're saying is that like they could just kind of click into place at the right time. Because we know what they do works. Their guys are at the right age where it's still going to work. That fascinates me.

If they add something and they click into place, they're definitely going to be one of the one of the shortless teams. I think that could get it done. Yeah, especially with like, I think giving Drew Holiday a little bit of. relief on the offensive end really helps too. He's having a great season. His efficiency number is taking a bit of a dip, but I think that's probably just from having to play so many minutes without Janus and without Chris.

But he's been great. I think they're kind of, I don't know, like, is it, can you say that Milwaukee is like a sneaky contender to win the championship? They're not exactly. No, they're not sneaky.

And they're just not a team that we've talked about a lot this season, right? Like we've been talking a lot about Boston. And Boston, back to the Yacht point. that's just a team that I think needs a little bit of insurance for Robert Williams III. Other than that, they're pretty much set. It's kind of like the same situation as last year's playoffs where, you know, if he's potentially, you know, you kind of just have to bake in the idea that he could miss some time. And Yak is a type of depth that can actually matter for you,

especially for a team like the Celtics that has so much offensive firepower. And, you know, two really good creators that can take it into the paint where even if you do miss a little bit of spacing, it doesn't necessarily, have to be the biggest issue in the world, right? Whereas I think a team like the Nets, we're all like what we're essentially talking about right now. And this you were kind of, this is something that you were talking about or that you wrote in our rundown is historically most, most these trade deadline deals have come from

situations where there is a guy that everybody else wants to stop. And right now, I think that the rest of. the East is looking at Embed and Yanis as the guys that you want to stop, especially if you're the Nets, right? Like the Nets, even before the Kairi Retrade, their defense had really picked things up. They had figured out a way, I think, to guard almost every type of player except for, you know, the seven-footer and the guy that can just get into the paint really easily. I'm probably with Klaxen, you probably have a little bit more of an answer for Yannis.

But Embed's a huge issue for them. So if they could get a guy like Yack, that's. great, but at the same time, when you have Claxton and you have Simmons, you can't necessarily afford to bring in a guy that messes up your spacing too much. This is a question I also asked Rob, and I know he just got an extension, but if I'm going to ask Rob, I have to ask you just because I defer to you on all things Miles Turner. Can't compete with Rob Mahoney. Yeah, I know, I know. It's unrealistic. I don't know what. But Miles is, he was just extended. but it feels like he was kind of extended

in like an extended trade situation as much as the Pacers might push back against that. I just feel like if the right deal is out there, he could still be somebody who is traded. If you're the Nets, now you have the Dallas 20209

pick to throw into a potential trade. It doesn't even have to be Miles Turner trade, but you have, you've got Spencer, you've got DFS, you've got Durant, you've got Simmons, you got Claxton, that's a pretty formidable core to go into the playoffs with, but it's not enough.

It's not enough in this Eastern conference, but you might have something to get you there. And if anybody is in a win-now situation, that should probably be looking to make a deal. It's actually the Nets. I think you hit on something that could motivate that line of thinking, and that is, you know, if you're preparing for a type of player,

and Bede is a problem for everyone at all times, just because of how, you know, and especially in the modern game, It's like, how do you negate the things about him that are special, which is sheer size and power? And then you can't really match his flexibility and size and power and not compromise your spacing like you were talking about. Turner is one of the few guys. Like, if you were thinking about like Claxton versus Turner, how would they, you know, Claxton pretty positionally savvy, pretty, you know, a little more slinky gap closery, which has kind of been like a jargony thing that I've just been saying more and more lately, I feel like. But he spatially is quick.

I feel like Turner gives you a little more body, like in terms of the people who have bothered and somebody that bothered Embed, I think we're going to talk about here in a minute when we talk about other trades at the deadline that have made a big difference. He fits that bill. I mean, he fits that bill of somebody that could

at least positionally be near the basket and not be like a screen door. Like, you know, not that he's like, his game has kind of drifted to the mid-range lately, he's not just an exclusively, you know, an exclusively, like, near the rim score. I know we always have to mention Miles Turner, but he is interesting.

I mean, and that pick is an interesting part of it, too. I think he nailed it. Yeah, now that they have that to play with, that is going to be a very interesting pick. It's in 2020. And Lucas contract expires, I believe he has a player option. And even if he opts in, expires in 2027. And

we don't really, I mean, it's 2029, guys. We don't know what is going to be going on in 2029. And that could potentially be a huge advantage for, you know, if you, if I, I personally look at this Kyrie thing, and I'm like, the best case scenario is they win the title. The worst case scenario is this is finally what inspires Luca to look under the hood and, uh, wonder about the decisions this franchise has been making. Uh, it's not something that. And switch to wine and, you know, instead of, uh, I, in 20209, I expect, uh, that, that chat API, uh, to be running all content at that point. I don't,

it won't be our problem. I feel like that'll, that'll have taken over the whole side, I think, right? It'll impersonate me pretty effortlessly, I think. You're replaceable, Kyle. Come on. I actually spent like an hour talking to chat GPT this weekend. Like, I asked it so many questions that the server was like, yeah, you have to come back. You've asked too many questions in the past hour. Your trial period went up.

Did all the answers have a trial period thing on it? I think you just have to come back later. But I forgot. And I still had questions for it. So maybe that's something I'll do later. But it was really interesting. I've hung back from it. I don't know.

I had a friend at a party, he was like, hey, man, have you messed with this? Like, blog posts? I was just like, why would I, why would I be interested in that? Like, I think I've maybe said this on another show. I was just like, I don't know. I mean, I'm sure it's fine, but I just, I'm not eager to go seek it out. Like, it's just, I don't know. People start talking about it, like, writing blogs and things.

Maybe this is just like an old man-y thing for me, my first old manny thing. I'm just like, I'm just not interested in it. Maybe I'll come around to it, but I'm not seeking it out like you are and having, you know, intimate conversations with AI. That was fun. I enjoyed it. I'm not lonely. Don't check it on me.

It's fine. But it was interesting. Yeah, asked about the soul. I asked about, yeah, I was basically just trying to suss out, like,

hey, do you think you could fuck with humans one day? Like, what do you think's coming down the pipe? Are you returning testing, basically?

You were asking your questions about the soul? I was. I was. I was curious what, like how it would answer sort of some of the big questions and versus some of the small questions. And basically it told me that it gets smarter the more questions I ask it, but it doesn't actually have learning capabilities. And I was like, well, that sounds a little bit contradictory.

Isn't that how human beings also learn? That's like the pacer saying they're resigning miles. It's like, no, I don't know. It's a little bit of a bluff. Come on, man. We're smart enough to know, you know, semantics here. Yeah, whatever. Like, give me, it told me, yeah, it does sound a little bit contradictory, but the difference is that it can only take in text input. Does not obviously take in any sensory input. Does not know how things taste, smell, feel, or anything. But I think that, you know, if you, like, this is really going to be a test of literature at the end of the day.

Like, there's, if you can, like, understand how things feel through reading, for example, which I'm a big believer that you can get pretty close. you probably you can approximate it. You can't actually get in somebody's head. But, you know, like a really good novel, for example, can really take you into experiences that you've never had. So I don't know if you fed chat, GBT, like war in peace, I think it comes out a different beast. I don't know.

We'll see. Yeah. Well, text versus audio, this is why I was telling you, maybe it isn't. But this is why I was telling you I've kind of been leaning towards audio messages over text. I'm kind of on board. Have I, did we talk about this? Did I tell you this? No, no.

I think I'm drifting away from texting. I really am getting a lot of joy out of just sending out those audio messages because A, I don't have to type, B, I can express what I'm saying more accurately and see. I can talk without committing to a phone call. The other person has to sit there and listen to it. I don't have to commit to a call, which is great. I don't know. I'm a fan of it.

Have I partially inspire this? I mean, you're somebody that does it. Usually your audio. We're way off track here, but your audio messages are usually like, I figured out basketball. And then it's like this long, you want to talk about manic. Cyril will just do these like, I'm like, what in the world? It's like a manifesto. She just gets cooking.

If I don't get any on the discussion, it'll go really far. Let's talk about the deadline. Do we cover the other teams that need a shot in the arm? Golden States, the other one. What's the other team that, like, has recently had, like, title success with a play? I don't even, there isn't even another core intact, is there? Golden State in Milwaukee. You could say the sun's going to the finals.

The suns definitely need a shot in the arm. But they are still trying to get to the Promise Land, basically, which is a good tease. Let's move on to the next. So after the break, we're going to talk about the other type of team that isn't doing a shot in the arm. These are the teams that are trying to get over the hump. We will talk about that next. Turn every Thursday into payday with TNT Thursdays on Fandul's Sports. It doesn't matter if you win or lose.

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1-800-522-470 or 7-700, or visit KSgamblinghelp.com in Kansas, 18777-770 Stop in Louisiana, visit wwwbomblinghelp.org in Maryland, 18778 Hope N.Y or text Hope N.Y 467-369. in New York, 1,800 522-470470 in Wyoming, or visit www.w-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. So as we said, you know, people, every team in the league is trying to angle themselves to get to get to the top. And, you know, you're trying to find something that works.

And recently we've, you know, we have a couple teams, like we said, Milwaukee and Golden State that are retooling something that has gotten them there. But there are a few teams that have been circling back. They have some pieces in place, things that makes sense, but they're trying to get that thing that clicks to help them get to what the next category is called, and that is over the hump. And there are a few teams in the league that, and some of this ties back to the know-thyself stuff that we've talked about. I made up something inadvertently in my sort of just free flowing thinking is sometimes your ability to get over the hump is your sort of sense of how close you are to the hump, which is, which is what birthed this term that I made up called perceived hump proximity, which I'm going to use from now on.

Teams that maybe think they're closer to their aggressiveness can kind of be, can define how close they think they are. Now, one of the teams that you brought up and that we've kind of mentioned here and there, Memphis is a big one. Memphis is a team that, you know, took Golden State to the brink last year. They put the timber wolves out in the first round. it doesn't seem far-fetched this year. They're close, but they're a team that seems like they could get over the hump.

Examples in the past quickly of teams getting over the hump that were close, Mark of Wire for Dantley back in 88, the Pistons. That's like the all-time perfect one that like a perfect superstar was available for the Pistons at the trade deadline. And he sort of put them over the hump and secured their core. But a lot of these have a thing in common where it's like they're kind of shifting who they are. It's not necessarily like the other teams where like we have this thing that has worked. These teams are trying to sort of alter their inherent sort of personality. And the Grizzlies, A, do you think they need to do that and how?

That would be my question for you. The Grizzlies are in a really interesting position right now. They are at 21 and 5 at home, 11 and 16 on the road. And I think if we were having this conversation two weeks ago, it might sound different. They're 2 and 8 in their last 10 games. A lot of that does have to do with being on the road. But that is kind of a stress test for where they might be right now. It's a pretty dramatic difference.

They're plus 10.4 at home, negative 2.4 on the road. And the biggest thing really is that their bench hasn't traveled, which we'll get into a little bit later. This is your stats. She's just like going out there like, this is her. I'm doing the money. This is the Grizzlies now. It's a home game for me. These are my guys.

But it's a tough predicament, I think. Well, it's not necessarily that stuff because the Grizzies are still the fifth, the fifth youngest team in the league. So if they do nothing, they're essentially fine. But this kind of gets into the sort of like early Westbrook, Kevin Durant, thunder conversation of when you think your title window is going to be forever and all of a sudden, you know, things just change. You know, you have a couple injuries and then all of a sudden you got like,

you got a couple shots at it and you're not quite ready. Like I think like, you know, the thunder for them getting over. the hump was kind of like that's that spurs team right uh but there were a lot of teams that were just farther along the road than them and in the end that better and experience ended up mattering in the playoffs and i think the grislies might kind of be in a similar situation it's really interesting to me that like that chris haines report that came out that the grislees and the pelicans don't want either team to get ojiannobe because i know that those are both kind of like pretty like those are two teams that plot things out in the future so i think

they see each other as their future competition. So maybe they're still thinking in those terms. They might still be looking at themselves despite what the numbers say this season, despite the Grizzlies being the number two seed and everything, as a team that should be looking to continue to try to develop some of their young talent. And in that situation, you live with the bench because a lot of it is a lot of it is a young guys. I'll just, I'll rattle off some more numbers here. John Conjar at home, 7.2 points, 45%, shooting 41% from 3, 5.3 points, 28% on the road.

Santiago, 11 points, 43% from 3 at home. That becomes 31% on the road. Even Brandon Clark goes from 72 to 61. You don't worry about that one as much because 61 is still very good. What do you think is going on here? I mean, that's an interesting sort of pattern. I mean, we're all about patterns. Is that fluky or is that a thing?

Is the sample size telling us something there? I think it's like a lot of those guys are younger than the core. I think it tells us, well, you can take it both ways, right? If you look at their problems, their problems haven't necessarily been in the starting lineup. The only guy who kind of dramatically, not even dramatically, semi-dramatically, like Jaron Jackson plays better at home than on the road, but not even in a way that you necessarily have to mention. It's not too dramatic a difference. And also part of that is probably the Reddit conspiracy theory.

stuff on on on on on the box score number is uh being being better for him at uh at home the stockton bump basically that's what we yeah stockton bump yeah we'll call it the jackson bump from now i know yeah i know the i know the NBA disproved it but like we're just i'm just you know i'm a bit of a skeptic that said you know jaron jackson is still you know he still blocks plenty of shots legitimately at the same time uh but they're they're in a really interesting spot because they could be there right now and they have they have the superstar and jaw who is embroiled in some some stuff right now needless to say yeah that's yeah that's a that's probably that's probably putting it very mildly but it's uh it's it's it's an interesting situation for them right now because they could keep

going with this if the problems are really just that the bench is young maybe one year from now they are a little bit better but if you want to start getting into trade territory you And they actually do want to stop, you know, a different team from getting OG Ananoi, which I'm a little bit. I don't know. Like that should figure into your decision making somewhat. But I don't know that it needs to be like. I like pettiness. So I'm for it.

I like pettiness. I'm a big fan of pettiness. But I don't know if it needs to fit into their, into their total, you know, the framework for how they see their future. You know what I mean? This is one of my favorite things, though, is that I think you and I had this conversation off air. I don't think we had it on the pod. But there are some, like, interesting, this doesn't add up. It's different eras.

It's just a fun symmetry between, between eras, though. That this team is kind of like the bad boy pistons, like in the fact that they're driven by this backcourt duo, this very dynamic score playmaker, Isaiah Thomas and John Morant. And then this sort of undersized scorer, solidly built, good defender guy. It's just sort of this precocious duo that's trying to claw and get over these established players within the conference. Well, Joe Dumars was the other one,

and then Desmond Bain. And then you think about the way the Pistons altered their identity back in 87, I guess it was, when they made that move. We have kind of talked to, Dylan Brooks is a hot subject within the Ringer MBA group text.

There's a lot of sort of dissension and defense about him. I mean, what kind of a tweet do you think that they, just speak, to it speak to it sir well if you want to continue with the bad boys metaphor the bad boys also had a guy that people straight up thought was dirty and that they probably wouldn't have won those championships without in bill lambier and everyone else in the league hated him but it didn't really matter to the

pistons so i don't know is dylan brooks that guy i'm not really sure uh i think we can go back and forth on this one that's that's kind of what makes it a bit of a conundrum uh brooks is also worth noting the only, he's a, he's a longest tenured grizzly and he's also the only grizzly that has not, has not been part of like the, the Zach Climman era core. Now, I think they still, they really like him. And I think they really, they really value what he's brought to, to like the culture. I think, you know, if, you know, you hear the other guys in the team talk about him. They still have a lot of faith in Brooks. I mean, Brooks, biggest issues are really just his shot selection. And he's, he's overaggressive. He fouls too much.

And there are moments where, you know, for example, the Donovan Mitchell incident, him getting suspended for a game, those things just aren't productive for a team. They're just not. Even if it is at yin and yang of what it eventually brings you, he does have to figure out a way to just taper that down a little bit so that he can just be on the court, essentially. I go back and forth on it. I think last year, the last two years, he's mattered a lot to them. And their plus minus numbers really reflect it. I think at this point, you might be at a place where, like, a guy like Desmond Bain, as like John Morant, Jaron, Jaron Jackson, they know how to be self-accountable.

They don't necessarily, I don't know that they necessarily need a Dylan Brooks type to tell them that. But at the same time, he's such a big part of what they do. And I think when you have a team like Memphis, you have to think about the sort of mystical, intangible aspects of this because that's so much of what has given this team energy at this point is like the fact that they are homegrown, the fact that, you know, they've drafted most of this roster that they've grown together. They believe in each other. So you know, you kind of have to take the, there's no like, you can't, you can't really measure that with like, okay, well, let's, let's throw in an extra draft pick for team culture and chemistry, right?

Like, that's, things don't necessarily work like that. I'm kind of reminded of like when the Celtics traded Perkins in 2011 and it kind of torpedoed their season. I don't know that you necessarily want to react to like a losing streak at a pretty, you know, dull time of the season that way either, especially when it seems like the culprit is really the road games. One thing that I could, that I think they could do, though, is they could package some of the young guys on the bench. They would sacrifice some depth. Maybe they use that to try to get an OG An An Anobie type. Then Stephen Adams to the bench and then start, J. Brooks, OG, Bain. and Jackson and basically play OG at the four.

Do you think that they're like shot creation competency is the thing? Or do you think that they need somebody who's going to like solidify, like switchability, spot up consistency? Like do they need to be leaning in that direction, which would be more of an OG type? Or do you think that they should be trying to find a fringe? I threw a wild one out there like DeMar, like I don't know, because who knows what the Bulls are even thinking?

I don't know what their perceived hump proximity is. But yeah, I mean, Do you think that they should be leaning towards an OG or like somebody that they could get on a budget, like a Beal, the Rosen, somebody that is like a high level late game closer, basically? Because closer-wise, I mean, I'm a Bain believer. We know what Morant can do. It's a little one-noted at times, like in terms of his scoring. We know the playmaking makes it more dynamic. But I'm just kind of wondering, do you think they have a dynamic enough closer on their roster offensively?

That question essentially comes down to how much you believe in the progress of Desmond Bain. He is someone, he's improved a ton this year. He's running a lot more pick and roll. He's become a legitimate secondary creator for them. And his playmaking has improved a lot. He's like, he's basically shown all these things and they've actually manifested themselves. I think if he was healthy, he'd probably be an all-star this season. The one place that you see weaknesses are where there's been a

drop off is his rim percentages. He's still having a hard time finishing at the rim. That's gone down pretty much like with his numbers have gone up, his drives have gone up, and that's come with his dip in his efficiency. So Michael Pina actually wrote this

feature on him back when he was still at Sports Illustrated. It was during the playoffs. It was about Bain's evolution. And when Bain was at TCU, he would basically copy Danny Green he would copy JJ Reddick, he would copy Devin Booker. And I think that shows a level of savvy and incrementalism when it comes to development.

Like he's always just tried to inch himself forward. He's not overly, he's not unrealistic about the guys that he could emulate. And he really built his game brick by brick that way. I think he went from just like one of the biggest additions in his game was just adding that one dribble off the pump fake to make him, you know, pretty much like if you do a flyby close out on. him. He'll, he's really good at that, at that move. Um, and he's kind of built from there, right? Like, it's always been one move on the other. And the guy these days that he's studying more is Donovan Mitchell. Now, Donovan Mitchell and his rookie year got this package like of 11 different finishes. Yeah, yeah, we talked about it. Yeah, we talked about that. And it came with this dip in

his efficiency for, for a few years. And now if you look at what Donovan Mitchell is doing, the bag has completely come together. He's mastered all those. things and he's basically unguarded now. So Bain is someone that because of his previous track record, because of the way that he approaches improvement, because he's so smart about the guys that he looks to to see that he could emulate, I personally believe that he could become that guy. You don't know with these things. The one sort of, the one thing that I think made him drop in the drafts was the fact that

he has a negative wingspan in a league that like everyone's kind of obsessed with wingspan. When it comes to finishing, that does matter. so that could actually put a ceiling on it. But at the same time, there are other ways to get around that. He's obviously he's big, he's strong, he can use his body down there, which is something that I don't think he necessarily, he's getting to a free throw line, but he hasn't really necessarily mastered that part of it.

So far, his body, he's used it to be a great switchable defender and probably like one of the better stuff, in the league that can also kind of go down on your fours and stuff. But he hasn't necessarily figured out how to use it on the offensive end. I think that that can come with him. I think he's just like, man, like talk about knowing yourself. His self-assessment is incredible. I think he's going to be the type of player that gets the most out of what he's able to do.

So me personally, I believe in Desmond Bain, which makes me the OG thing I'm, I feel kind of two different ways about. I think OG is a culture fit. He's an age fit. He's like a fringe defensive player that you're a candidate. And if the Raptors were better, he'd probably be. like more of a legit and he didn't get hurt, he'd be more of a legitimate defensive player that you're a candidate. I also think that OG, his value has never been higher. And if you're Memphis,

you don't have to rush to make the deal right now. I think if you let someone else get in on the OG sweepstakes, you keep your picks and you wait for the next superstar to be unhappy. And you can see how these guys do. You can see if there's truth to my Desmond Bain theorizing. You can see if Dylan Brooks does, you know, figure out the fouling stuff. You can see if you can just ride it out with him and you still have those picks. And the thing is, they've been so good at drafting that even as some of those picks that, like, they have, they have less picks than they used to. They still have a ton, but they have less than they used to.

But those guys, they've drafted well. So they're still valuable. Like, there's still a lot of young players on the Grizzlies that, I mean, every team would rather have picks and pick their own guys, but there's still a lot of young players on that team that other teams would like to have. And there's still, even the contracts that they've signed, you know, most of the guys on the team are pretty positive assets. Like, they're still pretty flexible to be able to make a deal.

So I don't know that they necessarily need to make a move right now. I still think they're pretty flexible. The only sort of place where you start worrying about it is, let's say they are actually ahead of schedule. And by the time the playoffs come around there, like, in a Western conference. Prince battle, and they're thinking, oh, God, it would have been actually nice to have O'Gia and O'Oby right now. I have a feeling that it's probably going to have a similar ending the last year.

I don't know. I'm just, I'm doing the psychic thing. That's my vibe. Like, I don't, I don't know. I'm kind of, I kind of wonder sometimes if they are going to have to make some kind of a pivot that's going to sting a little bit, you know? Like maybe, you know, they've built great culture. And I think you're right that, like, I think that one of the things, one of the superpowers that

they have as an organization is they can, like, create value out of picks that maybe are like they can create value out of like later picks basically like and they've shown that like and they've they've shown one of the remarkable things that they've really done is I was talking to somebody about this recently that they have this ability to let guys ride out weirdness and massively inefficient production and still be a good basketball team which is extremely hard to do you and I both talked about like the two timeline thing like the fact that like santi aldama got to play last year and he was like negative five plus minus all year and this year he's like a totally competent starter like i was watching them last

night and i was just like this dude hits three he's at like almost a 40% clip and he's like an awesome cutter and he's huge it's just a but they they do stuff like that all the time and i and i think that that's that's something you don't want to always assume that you're going to be able to just develop anybody and that it's going to just keep going maybe you got lucky and hit on some people that in a row that are that are that we're able to develop like that and you never want to assume but that's a like a huge tool that they have as as an organization I think yeah that's a situation that they're in with Ir Williams right now yes yes oh my gosh I go they should they let grace and Allen go because they thought Desmond Bain was ready to make the step this year they let

Kyle Anderson go and they thought that Zaire Williams would be able to to step into that role and Zire has largely struggled a lot of this year he was injured for sure. So that's a big part of it. But he's trying to step into his playmaking role that he hasn't necessarily been ready for. His shooting numbers are all down. He hasn't really had a consistent role this season. So some role definition would definitely help. But that kind of shows you the other side of it, right? And as they get closer and closer to striking distance, I think it's really going to be an organizational question for them, right? Like how much longer are they willing to put up with the growing pains of a guy like Zyre Williams when they are getting closer and closer

to striking distance because those mistakes can hurt you more the closer you get. But if they do believe in what they have, if they do believe in continuing to be patient, it can also work out. Like, I think it worked out really well for the Warriors last year. There was a time we're looking at it's not like, I mean, this year, I think they have a lot more problems to deal with. But last year, you were looking at some of Jordan Poole's shot selection. You're like, what the hell? How was this guy? going to, you know, basically be a productive player for them, the playoffs, right? And they were also, he was up and down the playoffs, but it was good enough that, like, it was worth it for them.

So, I don't know, it'll be a really interesting question. I think it's just kind of like a really look at yourself in the mirror, look at what you think you can be in the future, and, you know, whether you believe in this core, because, like, the other side of it is the team I kind of like to compare themselves to, and me and Chris, actually did this quite a bit last season. The teams that we compared a lot were Memphis and Boston. And Boston is a team that, you know, we talked so much about breaking up that core before they actually went to the finals. And I don't know.

We all did. We all did. And like, Mark is smart. Stephen A still wants to break it up. Did you hear him talking yesterday about trading Jalen Brown for Katie? I was like, we're really doing this again? Again, guys. You wonder if he's doing it on purpose.

He just, Sean Freud. I don't know. Maybe, maybe. But yeah, that's another team that, you know, they kept it together and I think they're better off for it. But there are a lot of questions along the way. And I think Mark is smart as a guy that earlier in his career, you know, had a lot of similarities to Dylan Brooks. Obviously, Mark's a better playmaker. I think overall he's a smarter player than Brooks.

But Brooks is probably more of a scorer. But I think in terms of intensity, moments of overaggressiveness that make you question the whole pursuit in and of itself. and also just defensively, they both have this thing that, and it contributes to why they also overplay things sometimes, is that they just see everything. I think they're just like one of those people that are like really hypersensitive to all the action going on around them, that they can see it, see it, they can point it out,

they see it developing, they see like little micro movements, and they want to act on those, right? So I think, you know, I don't know, what do you think of the whole, what do you think of the Marcus Smart, Dylan Brooks, this whole Celtics comparison? I think I brought that one up. Did you just like, did you just pull? Did you just pull my pistol off my belt and shoot me with it? Sir, what was that? What was that? That was my, that was nice. I did just watch Kill Bill too again last night. So maybe that maybe there was something there. I had to make it known that I was the one that said that first. I'm sorry. I didn't, I didn't mean to stay. No, no, no. Don't you go taking my comparison and waving it my face. How dare you? I'm just joking. I don't think that's a tough comparison. sword. Yeah, exactly. I don't think that that's a tough comparison, but to make, because we've

talked about this before, it's the pilot light thing. Like I've said, you know, that that fire is valuable and not quantifiable at all times. Dremont has this for the Warriors. You know, Marcus Smart has, and you can't, I just feel like he, he's unexpendable at this point. Like, I just don't think the Celtics fans could imagine parting with Marcus Smart at this point. I doubt it. And I feel like that went on. And that those are just tricky things. that you have to balance. And I guess it comes down to the person and your belief in like the foundation and structure of your culture. And that's a thing that you have to kind of build over time that are close.

Well, these are these, I take that back. These two teams are sort of in varying states of hump proximity. The Kings, what they do at this deadline, I think they're an interesting one. Like what they do is going to say a lot about how confident they are. How close do you think the kings are just like elevator pitch here? Do you think they like, do you think they should wait or? Do you think it's time to make? I was trying to trade Jared Vanderbilt to that team.

I feel like some kind of connector, switchy, strong, big forward would be cool for them. What do you think the Kings are up to? Are they close? I really like that trade because of his youth, too. I think he's somebody who could kind of grow with them. I don't think they're close. I don't think they're close enough to be, like, you know, actually trying to compromise some of the things that make them good.

They remind me a lot of the nuggets where, like, you're building around Sabon who is an incredible passer, but also kind of, like, you have to figure out a way to build around him defensively. So bonus being more of a natural form might make that a little bit easier of a thing for,

for the kings, and it will for the nuggets. But, yeah, I don't think they're necessarily there. I think it's more like a furry-sized hump than it is, like, I don't know, like a, just like you got to walk over a puddle or something. Like, it's a... We need, like, a hump scale.

Like, what are the... Yeah, we need to label it. We'll have to iron that out. Anyway, you know, I think, yeah, there's the garden hose. There's, you know, they're just varieties of, there's Ayers Rock, you know, and there's like, that's the biggest, that's the biggest. Now, those were the two teams that I was thinking of.

I don't know if you intentionally did that, but Denver and Sacramento, there's similarities. That's a great point. I mean, like, and sort of maybe, are they in a similar situation timeline-wise? Are we seeing sort of this like DC comic universe thing where the Flash is seeing like the future version of himself here? You're like with the kings and the nuggets, like where are they a snapshot? Are the nuggets a snapshot of where the kings need to sort of slowly build themselves to be, do you think?

Is that hairbrain? No, I don't think that is. I think, although I think the nuggets are squarely in a win now position. Whereas the kings are an interesting situation now because the West is so open that you almost just, if you're them, you almost have to start thinking about it. But I think after you think about it, you come to the conclusion that you're not there. Whereas a nugget, it's like, A, they're, they're hell. healthy. You can't count on that with this team.

Now, Jamal Murray's only just had like the, he's had the ACL tear. He looks incredible right now. I think that needs to figure into your decision making as well. He had a great game this, this week. And then also in the postgame interview with Katie Wingy, she asked if this is the most confident he's ever been. He just smiles big and nods knowingly. It was like the cutest thing in the world. He's always had this, of course I watched him here. It was only for like eight or nine months. but he's always had this like, he's had this confidence that is funny,

but it like irks people, you know? Like it gets under people's skin. He tweeted right after the Kyrie thing happened, and I know people were kind of like reading between the lines that maybe that was aimed at him. And then some people were like, was that aimed at Bones Highland? Something about like, you know,

don't demand something you haven't worked for. I don't know if you saw that tweet. It's a hard to keep up with all that shit. But he's always kind of had that. It could. It could. It could. I don't want to be here. Eric Bledso, right? He was like, I'm at a salon, you know? That meant one thing. Yeah.

That meant one very specific thing. I'm going to just start, like, claiming these really cockamamie like explanations for my vague tweets. But yeah, it's, Murray, Murray has always had that. And I think you're right. I think over time they've done a good job bolstering. But if they were going to do one thing, I think we kind of both are on the same page. And I don't think it's a unique thing that maybe like just resupporting that front line. It seems like it's something that they probably should do. right? Yeah, the Bones Highland wrinkle to this makes us

a pretty interesting moment for the Nuggets. I don't think we need to have any discussion about where they're at right now. They are trying to win a championship. Absolutely. Their number one seed, their defense in the last 25 games, has been very good.

I think they figured it out on the perimeter. All the off-season signings that they made have really clicked. Bruce Brown has been great. KCP has been great. And so good. in fact that I think it's well it's sideline Highland a little bit and Highland hasn't necessarily had the season that they were hoping that he would have they really they really talked him up

and then also the other thing is Christian Braun who was another guy that they were very excited about who's another just man like you never just see a guy is like he's a gamer like Christian Braun's a gamer you know oh yeah yeah but he's got he's got some fire he's got some defensive shops he could be another really good guy for them to have on the perimeter I think they would like to give him some more minutes I'm going to to say something. Christian Brown is like us. He's like you and I. Like, like the, like Christian Brown has this thing where like if you push him just the right way, he just turns into this hellfire monster. Kentucky played them in the Champions Classic a couple years ago. And I saw he did

something. I think it was like Brandon Boston. He had some, I'm sure they knew each other prior, but he had some play where he's, he just like screamed at Brandon Boston and like the veins popped out of his neck. And I was like, who is that? I was like, what is this like? What is this like? All alter ego this guy has. Like Christian, you're right, he's a gamer, man.

Like he, he is very competitive. That is a guy that climbs, climbs the chimney to steal one from Jha. Like, a very, very fiery dude. Yeah,

and he seems unassuming when you first see him. There's nothing about him that suggests that, but brings it out, man. He brings it out. So he definitely, he gives him a little bit of an edge. He gives him a similar edge

to what Bones Highland that hypothetically gave them, what Bones, I think, gave them last season. But now that Bones is available, I think that makes things very interesting for the Nuggets. They could actually go out and get somebody that could really help them.

Now, I know that you've been rearing for an opportunity to talk about Kenrick Williams on this podcast. Always. What would you think? I just want to give you five minutes on him, but also, what would you think about that swap? Oh, Kenrick to, that's interesting. Wow. I don't, yeah, I don't know about Bones with the guard dynamic. Like, it's not a good sign if you're a first round pick within like two years that the team is trying to like move you.

You know, it's kind of like the, I guess the worst version of that is like the Papayanas thing that Sacramento had where they literally waived their lottery pick. That's probably the worst I've ever seen. But, I mean, bones, bones in OKC, I don't know. I just, I, the point that I was making to you is just that like I think Kenrick is interesting because he's cheap. He doesn't. He can be low. He can be really efficient and effective on low usage. and I think that he's somebody that could.

It'll be interesting to see if somebody like maybe kick the tires on that to me. Because Kenrick is sneaky, one of the like bargain bin. I don't know. He's like that guy, like when you talk to a music fan that like knows about this album that's like really like a cult classic or a cult favorite, but not everybody knows about it. That's kind of how Kenrick is. Like he's a good player that I don't think the broader fan. necessarily is aware of. Like, I think he could contribute to a good team,

which is why OECMEA want to keep him around because they think they're close. Their hump proximity is that they think they're closer than maybe other people think. I don't know what they think of their hump proximity. They're going to, I mean, they're a couple years away from really doing anything,

but they're on the upswing. Yeah. But Cameron, he's just, he's just such a Denver nugget. You know what I mean? You think so? Yeah.

Yeah, totally. I think he'd fit in really well there. I think he'd play really well next to Yokicch on both ends. I think he just, like, he's like when Aaron Gordon's on the bench type of guy. And maybe he could, like, he's smart enough that like maybe he develops into the guy in the future for them too. Because like the one thing that I worry about with Gordon, as good as he's been this season, is just like, will his defensive IQ hold up in like a final series? Yeah. That's so, I don't know.

I like, I like him. Chicago has been linked. Caruso. Caruso is, I mean, Caruso is Caruso. I'm sure you feel the same way about him that I do. but they're kind of locked and loaded on the perimeter. You play really well in Denver, I imagine. I just don't know if they're having struggles with finding Bones Highland minutes.

Like, I don't really know what they do when Caruso needs minutes unless they start going small, which you could do with a guy when you have those type of perimeter defenders. But yeah, I don't know. I would like to find some sort of deal that kind of helps shore up their rim protection. I'm surprised that we haven't heard much about Pertil with them. But one that I love that could actually work out timeline-wise for both teams is a Mo Bamba swap. Oh, yeah. What was the deal there, though?

Because Bamba clearly is not part of the long-term plan in Orlando. But he's been relatively efficient. It's just we haven't gotten to see him play that out and explore it because of just the glut of weird dudes that they have. This is a luxury, I guess. but what could be even the deal there? I haven't messed with the trade machine on that one. I think that they should be able to use the Montemoris trade exception to take on Bamba salary if they want to just do a straight split.

I don't know. I haven't heard that out there or anything. I just think the nuggets have a very enticing, talented guard that's now available and they have a very clear weakness in their rim protection. and they're trying to win right now. So I'm trying to put something together. Well, another one that could be interesting. Of course, he could, the Bones Highland, Terrence Ross sort of parallel there is interesting

because you're talking about seeing yourself from the future. I mean, Highland and Ross are not terribly dissimilar. I think Highland's a little bit bigger. No, he's smaller. I don't know why I had that in my head. I was talking the other day with KOC about Amani Bates. I feel like it's taller, Bones Highland. No, I mean, they've done business together before.

It'd be interesting if they swooped in there and did it again. Yeah, look, it'll be interesting. They're one of the most interesting teams in the league for me right now. So I do hope that they find something. I'm kind of, I feel like a closet of Denver Nuggets fan sometimes just because, I mean, you love Yokch. I love Yokic. I want to start. The number one seed contending two-time reigning MVP, Denver Nuggets are interesting to you?

I mean, do you think that that's like, do you think you're unique and you're just kind of spouting that like that's like some quirk about you? I mean, they're really good. Yeah, I mean, I'm just like, I'm like super random, Kyle. Like, I'm just not like other girls. I just like, I really like the Denver Nuggets and I really just like, you know, my idea of a great, like, for, I didn't really do anything for my birthday yesterday. I just, you know, I had some fried chicken and I rewatched a classic. I just, you know, I'm just super low key. I'm low key like Yokic, you know.

I don't care if I win the MVP. I don't need those things. I just, you know, I'm better. You just want to hang with your horses and, you know, chill and don't ask me questions about why I'm so good. You know, that's kind of,

I see a lot of parallels here. Exactly. Exactly. You get it. And, you know, you're kind of the same way. Like you said at the top of the podcast and you don't really like attention. So,

you know, he's like, you know, just kind of the official player of this podcast. So, you know, it's, uh,

it's fitting. It's fitting. It's fitting. Anyway, this has been, you know, that we're now, we're going to be about 48 hours out from the deadline. I think at the time that most people listen to this. So it's, I'm just going to be fascinated to see what actually

happens. A lot of teams are still in this phase where it just doesn't really seem like anyone has figured out exactly the direction that they're going in. There's definitely a couple places where there's some bidding wars going on that I think that Kyrie kind of came in and shifted attention for a little while. The KD stuff shifted attention for a little while. Now I think we're kind of getting back into the place that we were at actually a couple of days ago. So things will be fascinating. Check out the ringer for all of our trade deadline coverage. And also, it's going to be wild.

It's going to be chaos. There's just so much coverage. I know what you're going to tease next. But the last thing I wanted to tag on there is that like the self, we talk about self-awareness and hump proximity and knowing thyself and all that stuff. The self-awareness in the league right now is just, it's disgusting because I want carnage. I want total lack of self-awareness. I want to shuffle the deck as somebody that covers this and doesn't have a team. I just want, I just want, I just want it to be entertaining.

I want them to hit the button and have like the steam gun thing go off and annoy Brian Winhorst. I want, I want it all. And they're like, and these teams that are just being calculated and, you know, conscious of their future and cautious. I'm just, I'm fed up with it. Yeah, man. Have teams just become too smart? Yeah. It's an AI kind of a thing, right?

We need to scale this back. We need some humanity here. Like now the Sacramento Kings are no longer like the Sacramento Kings. Who is going to be the team that gets fleeced all the time? And that just, you know, I don't know. I had this weird thought where when you were talking about the Kings where I was just like, you know, I was like, well, you know, Monty McNair. This is a weird thing when you're thinking about the Kings in the past. There's just like, well, Monty McNair knows more than us and he's going to make a better choice than either of us could do and think of more.

things in it. And I just thought that what a weird thing there. Wow, the Kings. Look at them. Good hands. It's a good fan base. I'm happy for them. I really am. Yeah, me too. It's a nice change for them to be like, oh, we actually make good choices. But go ahead and tease the thing you were going to tease on our way. A very fun team to watch to boot. Well, hey, like it's going to be chaos. There's also going to be the, LeBron is going to break the scoring record either tonight or on Thursday. And we've just got a lot of great coverage about that. Mirren Fader wrote a feature about LeBron, Kareem. unearth some new material on both those guys, which is very difficult to do with guys that are as well

covered as both of those guys are. We're going to have, I think, penis going to drop something. Rob did something last week. That was great. We had Zach Cram. We're going to have everybody. It's going to be all hands on deck pretty much. It's LeBron.

It's a trade deadline. It's a great week to be an NBA fan. Yeah. What more do you want, you selfish bastard? This is like, it's as good as it like seriously, you know? Of course, I'm saying I want carnage. There's a lot going on. I'm contradictory.

But speaking of good teams to watch, if you're going to be in Salt Lake City for the All-Star game, we are doing a live show after the All-Star game at the State Room, live podcast. Sir, it's going to be there. I'm going to be there. Pina, KOC, Logan. Don't think I forgot anybody. Maybe I did. Raja Bell, Utah Legend.

Come on out and see us. It'll be fun.