The Ringer NBA Show - Can Anthony Davis Revive the Lakers' Disappointing Season? Plus the Celtics’ White-Hot 10-3 Start | Real Ones

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

Logan and Raja discuss Anthony Davis’s monster performance and what is required from a franchise-leading big man in the NBA (2:00). Next, the guys talk about the early-season success of the Boston Celtics and Jayson Tatum’s unbelievable play in the wake of the Ime Udoka situation (22:00). Later, they go around the league to debate which fringe teams are legitimate (36:00). Finally, Raja and Logan share a couple of personal stories about their Real Ones of the Week. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey everyone, it's Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Connor. Wait a minute, you're not Chris Vernon. No, Kevin, sadly, I'm not as cherubic or as raspy as Verno, but it is I, Jay Kyle, man. And folks, basketball has been and continues to be so very good. That's exactly why Kyle and I are hosting a brand new basketball show on a brand new podcast feed, the ringers NBA draft show. We're going to have you covered every week as we go in-depth and deep dive in hopes of answering an ever-important question in the NBA. Who's got next?

Whether it's an international phenom like Victor Wimbunyama or the G-League Scoot Henderson. Or stars from Overtime Elite like A. Men Thompson, as well as a full-blown swarm of talented prospects from the promising 2023 NBA draft class. For sure, Kyle. And we're also going to get into players from the college ranks because this is a loaded class. for us to discuss prospects rising and falling, and we're going to revisit and redraft recent draft classes and get into how the league's evolution could help inform what's valuable in a prospect of the future.

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Roger, I was, you know, perusing the box scores and watching highlights over the weekend. And I couldn't help but to see our guy AD balled out against the Nets. And I juxtapose that with another performance that we'll get into later. but I want to get into what it's like to be a franchise leading big man and what is required from a franchise leading big man. And I think that what are you talking about? I mean, I don't know. It would all be speculation. I never did that shit.

Like, I don't know. Welcome to the media world, Roger. That's what I'm saying. I just want to put that disclaimer out there. I don't know. Everything I'm about to say is purely speculation. Continue. But now, I want to talk about AD and I want to talk about how.

what we need from him and examples that he should look towards for the rest of the league on how to handle these things. But first of all, what did you think of his performance? And why can't we get that on a consistent basis, Roger? That's really just what I want to what I want from from AD. What's going on here? Well, what I thought of the performance was it was a, it was a, it was the type of performance that evokes the type of hopes and, and, and, and, and, celebration of AD that would put him in like the top 10 players in the league. Like that's the type of performance that just gets you, you know, salivating at the potential of him being the face of the Lakers moving forward and keeping them in championship contention,

right? The problem is it's not consistent. And there's the next question you ask, how, I don't know how. To some degree, that's either in you or it's not. you're either able to do that consistently or you're not. And there's no real secret sauce to it. Some people are built to do that over and over and over and become superstars because of their ability to do that in win games. And then other guys aren't.

And it doesn't matter what you're labeled or dubbed or what your talent level necessarily is. Once you reach a certain talent level, right, and the projections and prognostications are that you're going to be a superstar, then it becomes whether or not, you can do that consistently or not. Whether or not you can be counted on to to annually have your team in a conversation or play at an all-MBA level giving your team the best chance to succeed. And so, you know, when D. Wade came out,

nobody gave D. Wade credit for being that necessarily. Right? But D. Wade was that. And so, I mean, people miss on it all the time, both ways. And I don't have a secret. I don't have a secret. I mean, I wasn't that kind of player. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I know what goes into that. I just know that some mofos can do it and some can't. I think that you brought up a point about salivating over potential.

I feel like we've been salivating over AD's potential his whole career, right? Where he can be that big man. He can do that. And I just feel like we've, and I hate to do this after a win when he plays, when he scores 37 and has 18. But I just always, when I see AD, it feels like it shouldn't be an event when that happens, Roger. You get what I'm saying?

it shouldn't be it, oh my goodness, this happened. This should be every night. And I feel like his time with the Lakers has been, oh, we're going to, you know, we go as far as AD goes. And then when he doesn't go, we get to, we get these, these games where it's like, oh, man, this could, if he just keeps on going, we're going to be good, we're going to be good. And I just feel like we just need an answer with this guy, man.

We just, we've gotten to a point where, you know, we look at the group chats, me third Ikeye and Kerm, if you look at every Lakers group chat out I've been in and every Lakers thing, it's, man, that was great to see. And then we just all get sad

because we know it's not going to happen consistently. And I wanted to, then I wanted to compare Contrast notes here because you see what's going on in Los Angeles with the guy like AD who you hope to, you know, get the torch pass to him.

And then you go, 3,000 miles away to your old stomping grounds, Roger, to the city of Brotherly Love, and you see a guy like Joelle M. Bid who just puts it on every night, whether he is tired, whether he's out of shape, whether he's injured. He still gets you just these all-time performances,

and I guess that's what you kind of want to see. That's why it's kind of almost serendipitous that these two games happen, because this M. B., it seems like where you would want AD to be and where he should be. It just doesn't ever stick. Yeah, I mean, yes, in terms of consistent production and availability to some degree, even though that's crazy, Joel and Beatem is so much time at the beginning of his career, but he just, he seems like he's got that part of it, at least now figured out.

But yeah, you would want AD to be consistently dominant to the degree that his size and skill level should dominate, right? Like when you say a Joel Embed is as big as he is, as agile as he is, as skilled as he is, like that's a very, very high bar you've set with just the physical attributes alone. And so while, you know, 80's game was phenomenal and you made the comment that like you come to expect that. I mean, it's it's kind of like, listen, you've been blessed with all that. Yes, we expect a certain level. Like we expect you to now, maybe not, you know, the 37 and 18 every night. But, like, it's not far-fetched to expect, you know, 25 and 12 every night.

You know, when you're running around, when you're running around blessed with all of those physical gifts and stuff. And so, you know, Joel Embed still has to figure out how to get his team to a championship. That's fair, right? Like, when you're talking about MVP level, um, individual performances and ability to dominate, like, the next step in that conversation is figuring out how to translate that individual success to ultimate team success, which was in a championship. But, you know, I do think that, I think that M. Bede has more of the makeup up top.

No, we're not talking about physical attributes anymore. We're talking about emotional. We're talking about mental. I think M. Bid has more of the makeup of a franchise type of dude, build around pillar type of player than AD does. I think you've, and you've alluded. I remember when we first started this podcast and, you know, how it was flabbergasted when you made the takes about AD of him maybe being a number two guy.

And I was like, what are you talking about, Roger? He's going to be a number one. This is the only reason why he's the number two is because LeBron's on the team. That's the only reason why. And you made the case time and time again of like, no, it's bigger than that. And I think that's what you're trying to say is it's about mindset. Do we give enough credit to mindset in this league when we're talking about evaluating guys on a night-in-night basis?

Because I don't think we do. well you don't i've been talking about that i'm not trying to say it i've been screaming it from the fucking rooftops like i don't think he's built up top to be to be a number one i think he can be a number one on teams that make the playoffs um or maybe win around in the playoffs maybe they don't like then the next year you might not be in the playoffs and but that's going to be kind of your so those new orleans teams is what you were talking about that's his number one right now for me Like I always, I've said this once before on the pot, I think. I found it interested in sitting in front office meetings in Cleveland when they're talking about,

or at least in that franchise, when we were talking about number ones, and we evaluated every single player on an NBA roster. And they were slotted as a one through whatever number. And then they were given another letter grade, which was character and the intangible things, right? And the ones were reserved for people who could win and be your number one on a championship level team. So I don't believe him to be that. I think that he's got the skill set. He's got the size. He's got the ability. But I've always said makeup and what you have in your heart, number one, not just your head, number two, are ultimately really, really, really important. And it's hard to

quantify that. It's hard to look at something that's as long and versatile and rangy and skilled and shooting threes and dropping dimes, it's hard to look at that and then say, well, you know, what's inside? Like, we don't know, but we got to, we're swinging a talent. Everyone makes a mistake. You're going to err on the side of talent.

We've had this conversation before, but it's what's inside those grates, those all-time grates. Yeah, physical has to, it matters. Sure, I'm not going to front like it does it. But it's their makeup, man. It's their ability to get out of bed and lead when you don't feel like doing it.

it's their ability to say, man, this ankle is swollen. Sure, I rolled it. Could I sit four games? Yup. Will I sit four games? Hell no. Because I got a lot of people in this locker room looking at me for direction, man. And four games could be enough to take this thing off the rails.

And then it's exponentially harder to get it back on the rails. So I'm going to suck that up. You know, I'm going to do extra treatments. I'll be in there, you know, with a personal guy trying to get that ankle right. But I'm not sitting. Now, I'm not saying anyone does this. But these are what, this is what I've seen for me. great leaders and great players, the approach that they've taken.

Like, they do it when it's hard to do it, when it would be easy to tap out, when the excuse is built in and they're standing there telling you, no, I don't want it. Yeah. I don't want it. Like, we got shit to do. And I don't, I don't see him like that. It's interesting to have this kind of conversation after a really, really, really big game from him.

A great game. man, again, that's phenomenal. Like he is, and you could be, you could not have what I'm talking about or if I were right. Let's just say hypothetically, I was right. That doesn't discount you from being the most overqualified best number two ever. Yeah. It just means I don't think you're number one. And that's, and that's okay, right?

And the Lakers have been successful with him being that. But I just think right now, just where the Lakers of, what the Lakers have devolved into for whatever reasons. that's why you need to have a great supporting cast around you consistently, right? And have another guy and have other people. Now, to give credit, the Lakers did have, you know, good stuff from their other guys. You know, Reeves had 15. Westbrook had his got 14, 12 and 6. I will have to say this, Roger.

I have to put respect on Russell Westbrook's name. Flowers. He's been, flowers have been given to Russell Westbrook. We could talk about him for a long time. But he's had a really good stretch. but there isn't enough what this Lakers team is missing and I don't know like

if LeBron is necessarily you know too old to take on this role I'm not sure but they need a guy day in and day out that can they need AD to be that guy and there's no other guy on that roster and I think that's what's so frustrated about this and the thing is the Lakers have nowhere else to go from here

there's no more they all their moves are done it's over to the point where they're future. If they had their draft picks, they could go get Wimby. But no, they have Anthony Davis, who is just inconsistent. But I don't know. Where do the Lakers go from here, Roger? I guess that's what I'm saying. I don't know. I'm just sad right now. It's really sad. It's been a real sad start to the pot. Let's see. Yeah, this is, I mean, for a Laker family. Okay. We're not, you know, it's interesting when I talk about AD, I often think youth and out in front of you and

potential I still think of as a word that comes to mind except he's how many years in is this now I'm trying to count him on my phone as as we're doing this segment what's this is this 12th year yeah we're the same age which is kind of wild right so I mean like technically young but like you got 12 years

on you by 12 years you kind of know what somebody is yeah I mean you you kind of know whether you can count on them to be the beacon of hope in this like stormy night or if they're just going to be you know uh rocking on the boat in the waves like the rest of us right and i would argue he's just like on the boat with the rest of them right now you know now it for the lakers i think what you would try to do is steady steady steady the ship like i'm on this on this nautical shit right now but steady it right now um let's start playing

good basketball let's let a d now if i will defend him for a second Let's do it. Allow me to. I won't be fair to AD. It can be really hard to develop your leadership skills and spread your wings and take that next step into face of franchise with the shadow of a LeBron James looming over you every day in the building. Not taking anything away from LeBron. It's not LeBron's fault. It's just when you're around LeBron, the deference of people, they just, just you're going to default to letting it's LeBron, right? Like so. Or if you don't, or if you don't, if you don't do that, you wind up being in a

chyriece situation where you're like, fuck this. Like, I just want my own shit, right? That's, there's the other side of that of trying to play with LeBron. If you do get indifference with LeBron, it's the, the, the trend seems to be either, it's not, I'm going to take the baton from LeBron. It's, I'm going to go do my own thing because LeBron's going to be so great for years to come. Well.

You know, we talked about this, too, when it first started to happen. I was, I have no insight into this. I am not in touch with anyone in the Lakers organization and have no finger on the pulse of what's going on there. But I said this, LeBron was going to have to be willing to maybe mentor for a couple years and show the ropes and teach the winning culture. And then he was going to have to start taking a step back in terms of, you know, overall, leadership and whose it was, Allah kind of deweighed with LeBron

in Miami. And I don't know that he has or hasn't. So I don't know if AD hasn't been able to really mature into that for the Lakers because LeBron hasn't been able to or I don't know if LeBron keeps holding on to it and saying no, like I got to do this because he sees that AD is rarely healthy and

is kind of inconsistent. I don't have the answers, but I will in defense of AD say it's why, you know, sometimes to become a man, you got to leave the house. You know, you got your dad there. You want to be a young man. Like you want to grow up. You want to figure these things out, but dad's still there. And dad does all of that. And so, you know, you go away to school. You, you live, you learn. You, you F up. You bounce back. And then before you know it, you started to cut your teeth as a young man. And so it's kind of that same analogy. Like he's, that could be difficult

in fairness to AD. So maybe, sorry, sorry, sorry, so to answer your question. What they need to do now is, like, AD needs to hit his stride while LeBron's out. AD needs to hit his stride while LeBron's out. The rest of that team needs to figure out how to play. They need to win some damn games. And then when LeBron comes back, right? When LeBron comes back, LeBron has to take a full account of where they're at, you know, where he's at, and what he wants out of this season. And moving forward, right?

Because if you could come back and say, oh, shit, well, maybe this young buck is ready to kind of go a little bit. Maybe I could figure out how to play around the fringes a little bit more. Not taking anything off the plate, but just augment in a way that he could continue to grow. And then maybe there's some longevity in it. Right now it don't look like it, though. It don't look like it. I remember there was

this, and I remember in the 01 season. It's interesting you say this. And I would like to piggyback on. I remember the O-1 season before the Lakers ended up playing your sixers. Kobe had gone out for an extended period of time. I'm not sure what

heard exactly, but he had like a 15 game stretch, right? And this was the time when, this was after the Lakers first season and Lakers first championship in that run with Kobe and Shaq. It was a year later and Kobe was doing his Kobe thing, was like, no, man, I want, this is, I want this to be my team. I want to, I'm going to score in bunches. You guys can't tell me anything like I have worked hard to get to this point. I'm going to do this. And he got injured and Shaq went on a run, started balling out of, control and Kobe saw it on the sidelines and was like, okay, I need to get in gear and adjust my game to make sure that this team is on, on, you know, readjusted to get the ball in the shack.

What is being, at least for certain players, what is being injured due for you in terms of adjusting your game and helping it get to a point where it can be successful for the team? We're talking best case scenario for the Lakers, right? Like, I don't think this is going to necessarily happen. But what does watching how a guy moves from the sideline from a. experienced a period of time, help once said guy gets back? Well, I mean, there are a few things, right? Number one, it's just a different perspective.

Life is all about perspective. We're experiencing the exact same thing, but I'm seeing it through my lens. You're seeing it through yours. And then, you know, it's so when you're not playing, it's not unlike when you're not coaching, right? When you're coaching, there's so much shit going on. When you're playing, there's so much going on that it's just, it's all the encompassing. It's all you can think about. And you're just seeing this small picture of what's going on

on the court. Like what's happening in the pick and roll scenario? What's happening when we run our get action? Like, how are they defending? Like, these are the things that are occupying your mind when you're playing. And so when you're able to, and it's, you're seeing a smaller picture of it. When you sit over there on the sideline, you see a bigger picture. It's from a wider lens. So you're able to see more stuff, right? Like coaching's the same way. There's so much going on in a game and you think you got your finger on the pulse of all of it and you think you got it all under control and then you watch that film or when you sit up in the box like as a general in the general you're like man how are they missing that well it's not on purpose it's not because

they're bad it's just because there's a lot of shit going on right and so you just can't see it from the from the distance that you need to see it from with that kind of bird's eye view so the other thing that can happen is sometimes that can be humbling when you're sitting over there and a team wins sometimes it proves your point right i'm so nice look, they can't win without me if you had a point to prove. Other times, it can be humbling in that, hey, I'm out, he's playing great, and the team's winning. So now I look like an asshole.

If I come back and say, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, I want it back the way it was when we were losing and I was scoring 35 a game, not using Kobe as an example or LeBron, but just in general, right? Like, we've all had that. We had in college or high school or whatever. So then you got to figure out, you know, how do you humble and come back and say, all right, all right, all right, right, right. I'm a pretty good player. I think I can figure out how to add to this.

Maybe it isn't me scoring 35 a game. Maybe I'm getting 26. But now we're winning and he's getting a couple extra and the vibes are high and things are going on. And so, you know, being able to see it from a different perspective for sure. And then, you know, sometimes, sometimes you earn some trust for someone else in the process if they're playing well. your absence and the team's winning. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not really too confident. It's checked back with us in a month. For now, we're going to take a quick break and I want to go to the East Coast, Roger. Logan, it's Justin Sales. Listen, I just woke up and

I had 10 texts from you that said baby Keem is the future and nothing else. I'm just calling to make sure everything is okay. I am getting a little worried about you. I know Kid Cuddy let you down, but this is still very strange behavior. If this keeps up, I'm going to have to hit up Raja to get him to intervene. But anyway, hit me back when you get a second. I got those Celtics tickets you were looking for. You can wear your Robert Williams jersey. It's going to be a blast.

All right. Peace. And we are back, Rara. I want to talk about the Boston Celtics. We didn't, we haven't talked about the Celtics in a while. and, you know, just kind of wanted to wait and see on how they did this season, you know, with the Udoka situation. Just having a new coach in general on the fly in this controversy just can, it can do a lot to it, do a lot for a team. But I feel like with this team, I think I failed to realize that this team's been through a lot of shit pre-U-Doka, you know, just going through different coaches, going through the, but somehow like the institution, somehow is still winning out.

what have you seen from the Boston Celtics just to start this season? Are you surprised that this has happened? Or is this just kind of what this team does or this group does over the years? Yeah. Let's see. Am I surprised? Yes. Should I maybe have been surprised?

No. I'm surprised because I thought that the E-MAY situation was going to be a distraction in a way. And I got to give NBA players more credit than I do, I guess, because I also thought, remember last year when the Roberts Arvert thing happened, the Suns, it was going to be too much, right? It was going to be too much of a distraction. And they played great in the face of that, right, before the playoffs. So, you know, I thought it would be too much of a distraction.

So I am surprised that they're out to 10 and 3. But I shouldn't be because, you know, you've relatively, you got a very, you know, tight roster that's been through. a finals run together. It's mostly intact. You added a couple really good pieces that seemed to be producing. Philosophically, your foundation was laid. You've got some really, really complimentary offensive pieces.

Two of the best young wings in the game right now. And so I'm not surprised that they're doing there or I shouldn't be. I am worried about them though because defensively, at least statistically defensively, they aren't where they need to be. They're just not. They were number one in the league last year in terms of defensive efficiency, and they are, I don't know,

25th, 26, something like that right now, I think. 23rd, that worries me long term for them, because that's what ultimately makes them the finals participant and possible finals winner, right? It's that ability to score the ball like they do and shoot it like they do, but really choke out your offense and lock you down.

It's what they did to KD. You remember in the playoffs? Yeah, yeah. You know, it's what they did to some degree to Milwaukee. That was the secret sauce. And I do think eventually, you know, that's going to bite them in the butt a bit. And I think that is coaching, I believe.

Yeah, it's, And a lot of that, as coaching and also, you know, injuries, you know, Robert Williams III is not in the lineup right now at the surgery in the beginning of the season. But I think one of the bright spots, though, you know, I know it's not defensively, but Jason Tatum. And Jason Tatum was a guy that, like, you know, I saw during the finals. And I think I talked about this during the beginning stages of the season where, you know, it was just a question mark of, like, how does a young guy, you know, respond to, you know, his first big loss on the biggest. stage, right? You could tell that he wasn't necessarily ready for the finals moment, you know, just wasn't all the way ready for that time. But I've really been, I've really been juice with what I've seen from him over these last few weeks. You know, he's playing really well this

season. Did I, I feel like I overestimated just the, the, and I think this goes overall to do the team in general. I didn't take it to account how much NBA players, or good NBA players or athletes in general, really thrive off of just some, not, I wouldn't say controversy, but every athlete it seems like needs a chip or needs something to assemble that they can prove wrong. And I feel like Tatum has done that from a certain extent,

just from his last year, from his last year's finals performance, and to this overall team, like how much does, how much does that, Do an athlete or a person in general just need that carrot to be successful? It helps. I mean, there's some self-motivated people that don't need that external carrot or failure necessary to motivate them.

But most grades need something. There are those that don't, but most of them need something. And, you know, there was no, for me, there was no real issue or failure for just. Jason Tatum. I saw, I saw it as just an evolution and a journey to where you're trying to be. And along those lines, there are times where you don't win. There are times where, you know, shit, you made the finals. You didn't win it, man. Like by most people's accounts, that's a win. It's just part of your path, man. Now you go back and you figure out what didn't work. Like, what part of your game or your body or your mental makeup did you not love in the finals? And then you go

back and you just work on that. Maybe it's your size. You know, they make a big thing of MJ realizing that the pistons and that Eastern conference were just trying to beat the hell out of him. So he needed his armor. Right? So MJ went back and committed himself to lifting weights and picking up 15 pounds so he could deal with the beating.

Like it doesn't necessarily have to be that for Tatum. But whatever that thing is, those times when you don't get over the hump are okay because they highlight those things. and then you go back to the drawing board and you work on them and thus become a better player. And I think he's done that at every turn. Like he's just continued to come back

being better than he was the year before. This year is no different. And, you know, again, him and Jalen Brown out there on those wings, that is, that's murder. You know, I played with some dudes. I ain't going to say no names. I played with some dudes,

I'm not going to say no names, but real talk. I played with some dudes to be like, Ra, right, you get them. Yo, because that other team would only have one gunner, one dude who would cook, like, Mello, or T-Mack or, you know, Vince, or who you name it, where they'd be like, no, no, no, no, you get him, you get him. And right?

And I'd be like, you mother, like, okay, like, what I'm going to do? Yeah, I got him. Like, I get it. That's my job. I'll go over there and get him. Kobe. But this team, they wouldn't be able to do that to me. Because there ain't no hiding when you're playing Boston with them wings, bro.

twos and threes have their work cut out for them. There's no hiding. There's no assignment ducking when you play the Boston Celtics if you're a wing defender. What do you do? How would you approach this team? How would you like, okay, well, Raj, this is this is 28, 27-year-old Raj. He's going to Boston. I know he's probably, he's probably kicking it the night before because you know he loves

Boston. But what is he thinking going into a matchup against these two guys? What are you looking at? What is it that makes them ticking? and how are you going to try to stop them? That's a big question, Logan, and I'm not prepared to answer that, man. You're playing for the Sixers,

and, like, you know, PJ Tucker's your teammate and Beat is your teammate. You guys are chilling, you guys are kicking it, and then you guys got Boston in the morning, or in the end late later that day. Yeah, I, you know, I don't know. I mean, in fairness to our listener, man, like I haven't really broken either one of them down

like that to give you a, hey, man, I had force him left and try to keep him off I haven't done that. So it would be hard. What I would probably do just a big picture with one of them is say, let me get him and ask my coach if I could be excluded from any of my help assignments. So let me just stay home, right? And yeah, it's going to put a little extra on other people's plate.

But if you let me stay home, then I can try to suffocate one of them. Okay. And if I can, if I can, I'm not saying I can, but if I do get it wrong, right, then we're good. We're going to win that game. So just let me blanket him and let me just try to dog him everywhere he goes. And if he gives it up, you know,

that's the type of team. If you do that to one of them, they have so many other options that he might not get it back. So you can maybe take, okay, so for Kobe, for instance, Kobe on those teams, I could do that to Kobe. And there were times where they were like, don't help off of him, deny it back.

But it's coming back to Kobe in most cases, right? Unless, you know, there were times where Swish Parker thought it was his ball and he'd go do something or, you know, like there were times like that, but that's a win for us if they're doing that, you know. But on this team, because they have a Jalen Brown or a Jason Tatum, depending on who you're guard, and then they have a Marcus Smart and they have a Malcolm Brogden, and then they have, you know, all these players that can get a bucket, he might not get it back.

So I probably try to chop one of them out of the equation, just ask if you let me stay home, I try to get physical and try to maybe get him into some shit with me, you know? They seem pretty level-headed dudes, but I give my best to try to get one of them barking with me and see if I could get them on tilt. Well, how do you balance just because you just said you would ask your coach to just like, yo, chill on it. I'm chilling on the help today. Like, my focus is on this one guy as a primary defender. Is that very common? Like, how often would you do that as a defender to be like, or that for special games?

Like, how do you differentiate when you can do that or ask for that as opposed to other games where you're like, oh, I'm doing my help assignment and for a whole team? How do you balance that? Yeah, that's pretty, it's pretty rare. It's relatively rare. You know, there were a handful of guys in the NBA when I played, you know, Kobe for sure. Ray Allen was kind of like that. Well, you kind of had to be. Yeah, yeah, you had to be attached. He runs around so much, yeah.

It had to be attached. You know, but it wasn't for every two guard. Most of them you play straight up and you play your team defense and you, you know, you trust your help. And therefore, when it's my responsibility to be in help, I got to be there for you. And then, you know, if I've been pulled on this in this invisible string because somebody had to go and now I have to go, I have to trust that the guy behind me is going to run in my man. But the cobies of the world, pretty rare. The cobies of the world, Ray Allen's. I'm trying to think of.

Is McGready one of those guys? Alan Iverson, yeah, T-Mac. Those type of dudes just meant so much to their point production on their teams. I try to take that to post for a... So usually like teams with like a superstar wing is when you could be like,

yo, I got to get him because he's their most important player. As opposed to like if you're going against, I don't know, Shaq or Pat Ewing or something like that, and then you have to, you can go and like kind of be more in line with your defensive principles as a team, right?

Is that fair to say? Yeah, I mean, post players presented other problems, right? You'd have to double them like back in the day because if they, if they were that good, you doubled and then that would throw your defense out of whack and then you'd have to scramble as the ball moved around. And it's harder to front in the NBA. So you can't really deny a post player the way you'd like to. You could fight them and fight them and fight them. But if they just keep moving, you know, off the block fractionally or up the line, like eventually you got to get behind them.

you know, if he keeps moving you up the line on the post and you fronted him, before you know it, it's a high, low, and you can't guard that at all. So eventually you have to kind of concede, it's easier, I think, to deny and keep it out of people's hands when they're out on that perimeter. So, you know, I guarded mostly wings. I would guard Alan Iverson. When I was on teams, I guarded Steve Nash in brief, you know, kind of... You know, asked me to be in shape guarding them to, bro. Spans. You had to be in shape.

But they were too quick. Like Tony Parker wasn't my assignment a lot. He was, he was too quick. Like we put something else on him with better length. But like bigger guards, like J. Kidd, I would guard those point guards.

And then I guard anything down to like a, you know, a T-Mack or a, or, those were tough. Hey, that shit was, that's a thankless job, man.

Great memories, but a thankless job. All right, man, let's, let's take it around the league. Okay. I'm going to,

I'm going to, we're going to do some quick hitters. And then we'll just see if they're good or not. the Nuggets are top of the Western Conference with the 9 and 4 record. Yoke's is back to MVP numbers. Murray, Gordon, and Porter, Jr., all averaging at least 15.

I am usually a guy that doesn't really trust what the Nuggets put out because while they're great regular season team historically, they have not been really good in the playoffs. Should I believe in the nuggets of this season so far as it too early to tell? I think ultimately it's too early to tell. Yeah, it's too early to tell.

But with that much firepower, they're always going to be a threat. No one's going to want to see that. That's a team that can always beat you, no matter who you are. But again, look, it's corny. I get it. You got to defend.

You have to be able to defend. And there's still a bottom third of the league team defensively. And so... Which is surprising because that's Mike Malone's whole bag. He's a really good defensive coach. Yeah, sometimes you got to have personnel, though. Yeah. You know, like we can...

Should, I could scheme up all I want, but if I don't have the right personnel and the right people and the mindsets to do it, I'm not pointing any fingers, but that's what scares me about them. They'll always be so dangerous offensively that you don't want to play them and they can beat you. But ultimately, to win a chit,

over the course of that playoff run, you got to have some good solid defense, man, because you ain't always going to be hot. I'll say this, man. The Nuggets, and this is historically speaking, and I've always seen the Nuggets as a team you do not want to play in January. It's just a tough team.

And then if you get them on a, they're the ultimate trap team because they're in Denver, and that the ultimate, like, second night of a back-to-back team where they just run you out of the gym, that's just their whole thing. They need to figure out,

it doesn't matter what their record is in the regular season. They need to figure out how to translate that into postseason wins. So I'm on the same page with you. I want to talk about real quickly the Cavaliers who started out really hot, had an eight-game winning streak. And now I think they've lost three or four straight, have the same record as they did last season around the same time. And that was a team without Donovan Mitchell.

I feel like the Cavs are a year away. What do you think? Yeah, agreed. I mean, Donovan Mitchell's out right now, right? He's out. He was out last night. But did you see, did you see Garland last night? Yeah, he went crazy.

That was crazy, man. That boy stops on a dime and gets it up. Hey, that boy is, by like, if you were to look at Darius Garland just in a lineup or walking down the street, you would not expect the game that he has at all. But he's fearless and he's going to get buckets if he needs to. I love watching Darius Garland play basketball. Yeah, he got a torch. His ability to go from full speed to.

stop and get it in the air. The amount of time that that takes is upper echelon NBA type of shit. He is going full speed, stop in the air. But yeah, they're a year away. I mean, they're good. They're going to be good.

I think it's sustainable for them to be a good Eastern Conference team. You know, a threat to win a championship this year, no. But there's some things that Kobe's got to figure out in terms of, you know, next moves to get them over the ultimate hump. I do believe them to be on the right track

and pointed in the right direction just maybe a year or so away. I think it's time, Roger. I think it's time to put some respect on on the names of Mike Brown and the Sacramento Kings. We don't ever talk about the Sacramento Kings here. We don't, much of the chagrin of people in Sacramento, you know, I got love for y'all.

Shout on Natomas. Shout out of Oak Park. We out here. But listen, they're on a three-game winning streak, have won six their last eight games, including they beat the champs last night in a great game. It was probably too late for you, Raj.

I know you got a bedtime. But I think we need to put some respect on the Sacramento Kings name. It's early, but I think it's not. No, I do. I'm fine with that, and I didn't know. I did not see that game. Another really, really, really good,

top five offensive team in the league. Not very good defensively. But a lot of this has to do with, like, the bar that you, set. Like when we were talking about AD earlier with all of all of these tantalizing gifts, like you just expect, I mean, Sacramento, what have we expected as of late, right? Not very much. Right. And so that's not to throw any shade because I like what they're doing, but they can, we can put respect on their name and still say we don't know that, you know,

they're ready to win anything right now because like these are steps in the right direction for a franchise that needed to take steps in the right direction. This is what I'll say about the Kings. And I do agree with you with the stats right now. But I will say, we're not at the stage for the Kings where we should be looking at stats. I think we should be like go look at vibes. And this team fights. This team fights for everything.

They're not going to, I don't know if they're going to make the play in. We'll see. But they're going to be a team that you're going to hate playing. Especially if you're a good team, bad team, you are going to hate playing them. That is a step. in the right direction for that franchise, to be able to say that. We're saying the same thing.

Those are steps in the right direction. Yeah. Shout out of Mike Brown. Shout out your guy, Leandro Barbosa, who was on the staff there. Oh, really? Yeah, Leandro Robosa is on the staff.

L.O.S. Yeah, LB is out here locking in on the assistant vibe. So we're going to end this with around the league. The Golden State Warriors, man. And we have abstained from talking about the Golden State Warriors for the last few weeks, just to kind of see what happens. But right now, it's not looking great, bro.

It's not looking great at all. They're 27th in defense, which is not something that Roger likes. They're 5 and 8 right now. And this is, and Curry has had, Steph has had 40, 47, and 39, right? He's putting together an MVP campaign into, individually, but it is still not helping. Fibes are off, bro. Is it time for us,

how long is their benefit of the doubt going to persist right now? Because they're five and eight at this point. They got the spurs tonight on the second night of a back-to-back. And the spurs, I don't care what type of team they are. You don't want to play them when you're doing bad because they are going to play hard.

Is it panic time for the Warriors? So we played 13. You said five and eight, right? Five and eight. 13 more. 13 more. It's 26 games in. Yeah.

It's over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's over a quarter of the way. Yeah. I mean, listen, you'll know.

I think you'll know. No. Caviot would be they're one of the few teams that might be able to spark it just because they have the experience. You know, like knowing that you've done that and having that in reserve somewhere, you can always call on that. If you've never done it and you don't have it in your reserve, you can't just call on it.

They would be one of the teams that I could say could call on it, but I don't believe that they'll do that this year. 26 games in will know. If they get this defense tightened up, if vibes look better and they're playing and trending in the right direction, in 26 games, you will know it.

I think their vibes are off. I think that, I'm just telling you, this is my opinion. People don't want to hear this shit. I get it. We swept that shit under a rug that guy swept on like it was just swept under a rug. Their vibes are off. Shit like that can affect locker rooms in ways that you can't quantify. I so I will say I haven't we haven't talked about the words, but I will say this. I don't. I think it has less to do of what happened in the beginning of the season and more to do.

And I'm talking about the Jordan Pool, uh, Jorymond. situation. I think it has less to do with that and more of the fact that their bench, the younger guys that we talked about last year that were supposed to take a step simply have not done that. That's fair. Jordan Poole has not done that. Jonathan Cominga has not done that. And their bench is suffering from that. They're relying on guys that are two-way guys right now off their bench. And they don't, And what they're really missing is that the type of guys that were on their bench last year, the type of guys like Otto Porter Jr., right, the Elitza, right?

The Gary Payton, the third, you know, just dudes that can just really lock down. And also, or presences in the locker room, they are in a place that I just, I don't know. I'm with you, wait for like 13 games, but I just, I don't see it right now. I just, I don't see them doing that right now. I don't. Through 13 games, I would reserve judgment for most teams. So I think you'd be prudent to do that at 26. I think you'll know definitively.

I am not blaming their 5 and 8 on what happened in that locker room. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is everything that you just said factors into the equation, the missing of the depth on the bench, those veterans that hold you down in times of crisis that you can count on to come in and give you six solid minutes in a game where you're just trying to, you know, keep the lead until you can get your starters. Like all of those things play into it.

But so do the vibes in that locker room. When you talk about Jordan Poole not being what he was, all of everything has to come into account. And I will say this again. Shit like that, people don't get over it. They can say whatever the fuck they want. They can sit here and look you in the face and tell you know, I'm good, I'm cool.

That's not how that works. Do you think, If that didn't happen, how do you think things would have played out? Like, if they were just, you know, just a normal training camp. They could still be bad. I'm not saying that's the only reason. I'm saying when times get tough, when times get tough and you have to rally the troops and we got to close ranks and we have to really figure out like the nuts and bolts of

who we are and how we get out of this shit. Yo, let's talk. Let's chop this up. How do we ultimately get out of this? When it's time to do that, you need vibes. You need people who F with each other, who will have each other's back no matter what. You need brotherhood. You need camaraderie.

You need trust. Right? So what happened ain't the reason. They'd still probably be bad, Logan, because they got personnel to your point that that isn't allowing them to do some of the things they want to do. But when those things aren't in place and you still need to have these conversations, then everything that I just talked about needs to be present in a way that I'm not sure it is right now. because of what happened.

And it makes it exponentially harder to get out of that situation. The fortunate thing is, for them at least, is they do have the infrastructure and the guys to be able to do what you're describing. They just got to figure that shit out, man. Because it just, it just,

the joy is just not there. It's not, it's not there. It's basically Steph trying to recreate that. And, bro, all these words you're using or emotional words, man. Do you hear the words you're not describing physical things? You're describing emotional stuff, which is what I'm trying to tell you. I'm listening to a lot of Teddy Pendergrass over the weekend.

A lot of Mays and Frankie Beverly dog. Like, I'm in a bag, but I feel what you're saying. I like that. I like that because when you're looking at a team, when you're talking about Fonks, yes, it is physical and everything that goes along with having the right personnel to execute and play a game and compete. All of those are important. but what you're talking about and what the words that you keep using to describe them

are emotional, mental relationship type of words. And those are the things that have to be in a place to get out of that. Yeah. Yeah. They need a hug. But, um, all right, man. Have I told you that story? I've told you that story, right?

Which one? The hug. I've never told you my mom's story with the hug. Have I told that on now? Tell me the hug story. You never have told me that period. I want to hear the hook too. Story time.

So, you know, what was it, 06, 07, Kobe and I were beefing. We had gone back and forth through the media a couple times, right? Like he said, we need to get in an octagon. I said we don't need, we don't need no damn octagon. We could do this right here. Like we're- Bro, y'all did everything but fight. Well, I guess you did what you did.

But you know, like, you did everything but like square up and run to fade. We were going through it. So one of his, you know, he had a lot of barbs. Like he was good with it. He was slick with the tongue. but he hit me with like, who is this kid? Like, I don't even know him. And then he said, maybe he wasn't hugged enough as a child.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, right? So, you know, you got to appreciate that again, right? I mean, I can be beautiful. He was ruthless, bro. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we beat them. And he had to exit the arena.

And as he was exited the arena, he passed a lady who was standing there with her with her wares in her arms, just a regular brown-skinned lady standing in the bowels of the Phoenix arena. And she said, hey, Kobe. And he turned around and said, oh, hi. And she said, hi, I'm Rajah's mom. Could you use a hug?

Man, shout out to my auntie, dude. Shout out to my auntie Denise, bro. Shout out to my auntie Denise. For the impeccable timing. It was phenomenal. It was phenomenal. Now, I wasn't there to see it. the story was recounted to me by many people that were down in the family room,

which is right next to where it took place. But that's my hug story. Denise Bell, real one. Hey, that's our real one of the week, bro, collectively. Shout out to Denise Bell, my auntie Denise Bell, who always holds it down. That is going to be our collective rule of the week. Are you good with that? I'm fine with that.

Denise Bell in the building. Shout out to Denise Bell. Denise Bell. Wait, I'll tell one more story. It's story time because I'm going to. Let's get it. I got to go. Let's get it.

I'm going to tell you the stock she comes from, right? Marianne Champion is 94 years old right now up in the D.C. area. That's my grandma. And her sister was my aunt Ev, right? My great Aunt Ev, who has since passed. But love the casinos, love to go out to Atlantic City, like, you know, and get it in on the slot machines. And just so I'm in the USBL.

We're driving around the East Coast and we're playing in Atlantic City. and I look up into the stands and I see my grandma and my on Ev. I didn't know they were coming to the game, but there they are. They're sitting in the stands. Boom. Games taking place. We're rocking out. I go up on the rim and go to a dunk, like one foot, two hands, one of those dangerous

plays where you can flip off the rim, you know? So this dude, I don't even know who he was. He ran under my legs. It was probably not on purpose, but the young me perceived it as him trying to like pull me off the rim. So I kicked him, right? So when I come down off of the. rim, dude is coming at me. So I'm kind of backing up and he's coming at me. And so I stick him

with a jab, bah, right? And so now the whole stance clear and everyone's rushing and it's a brawl. And so I'm backing up as this brawl's happening and I run into somebody's back. I stop right around the mids midline circle. And I turn around to see who it is. And it's my fucking grandma, my great aunt with their purses, they're swinging them. They're throwing hands. Like the whole This was going crazy. Yeah, so that's the stock that Denise Bell comes from. Br, shout out to that. Yo, I remember, shit, we tell him to your time.

Fuck it. Let's do it. I remember I was at a practice one time in high school. And our quarterback's coach, I don't know where he is right now, but he was just getting into my shit for no reason, honestly. There's really no reason. Just being an asshole, right? Yeah.

And so this is, my dad never really went to practice like that. He never did. You know, he just wasn't a guy. He wanted to give me my space as a player, right? Sure. But for some reason, he just happened to be at this practice. Maybe it was a weekend practice or something like that. And he saw the coach yelling at me.

And my dad is cool, or was cool, RIP, it was cool about, you know, coaches yelling or whatever. It's fine. Like, dogs, like, this is what you have to do. I'm not, I'm, this is who's in charge right now. Right. Right, right. And so, anyway, he didn't like how the coach was speaking to me.

And this motherfucker went from the other side of the stance, unbeknownst to me because I'm like trying to, I'm trying to get the scrimmage. You're locked in. I'm locked the fuck in. Out of nowhere, he comes from the other side of the stance and comes onto the field as a very pertinent conversation with this coach. Yeah. Yeah.

Hey, don't get a twist of his throat and he said, don't get it fucked up as basically it was what it was.

So shout out to him. No doubt. Parents and relatives of the real ones of the week and just in time for the Thanksgiving holiday, damn it.

No doubt. Man, that has been another edition of real ones. This is only the Monday real ones this week. We are going to see you next Monday, no Thursday show

for the next two weeks because we have Thanksgiving next week. Yeah, man. That was a good episode, Ben. We will see you guys next Monday.

Tap in. Make sure you check us out Mondays and Thursdays. Otherwise, except for these next two Mondays. We're only on Mondays. So see you guys next time. Holla.