The Ringer NBA Show - Can Kevin Durant Be the Face of Basketball in Brooklyn? Plus: The Present and Future of Team USA. | Group Chat

Episode Date: August 8, 2019

We discuss Kevin Durant's first on-the-record interview since his Achilles tear. What is the NBA going to look like in 2020 without its potential best player (1:00)? Then we break down the present and the future of Team USA, including who should and will make it this year, and who we’re most excited to see in 2020 and beyond (31:11). Hosts: Justin Verrier and Dan Devine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. Up on our site, The Ringer has just published their first ever fantasy football rankings. Our NFL experts, Danny Kelly, Robert Mays, Danny Highfits, and more rank and analyze the top 150 players in 2019 with with you with you wherever you're drafting. To check out our rankings and for more preseason coverage, listen to the Dannessie Football podcast or head over to the Ringer.com. Basketball is very good. Kevin Luni is a max player The Lakers should hire Ernie Grunfeld

Kauai should sign with the Warriors Basketball is very good Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show This is the group chat I guess that's a half-ass attempt at doing the thing we usually do I am Justin Verrier joining me on the line For the first time I believe on the group chat podcast Dan Devine

What's up Dan? Not much I'm very excited to be on the group chat Yeah I mean I think normally I'm on the outside of the chat and you guys are just talking shit about me, so it's nice to be sort of in the mix. Well, as you'll soon learn, it's completely different than every other Ringer NBA show. We do things completely differently. There aren't two or three guys just talking about basketball here. So you'll have to catch up. That's good. Yeah, it'll be nice for me to be able to find something new to do. Bobby Wagner is also here. He is sitting behind a blank wall and I am just looking, just wanting to know whether or not he is reaching for his mic.

right now to contribute. Hello, Justin. Hi, Bobby. What's up, Bobby? Good to talk to you. So we came into today, not knowing what we're going to talk about, but we managed to come up with some things that were basketball related later in the show. We're going to talk about Team USA.

Believe it or not, they're in training camp right now in Las Vegas. They're going to be going through that process over the next couple of days, a couple of weeks in order to find out the team that's going to be competing in China for the 2019 Feble World Cup. But first, Kevin Durant, back in our lives after a brief stint kind of in the shadows after he made his decision to go to the Brooklyn Nets. He sat down with Yahoo Sports's Chris Haynes for his first interview, I believe, since his ACL tear, said a few interesting things, but I'm not sure any of them rise to the level of significantly

altering our perception of Durant, perhaps, where, like, how he ended up in Brooklyn. first off, we could probably start here, which is how the article started as well. He does not blame the Warriors for his injury. Obviously, there was a lot of talk about whether or not the Warriors rushed him back. He came in that game five clearly wasn't ready. He didn't look right from the start

and ultimately ended up tearing his Achilles. His quote, hell no, they did not push him back into kind of competing there. Dan, any quick thoughts on that whole thing? Because I know that this was a big deal at one point, believe it or not. Yeah, that's right. It feels like forever ago. I mean, it's a big deal insofar as there was so much focus on whether the warriors kind of checked off every box and followed the best practices and did the best job that they could to protect the player rather than trying to get him back too early. So if Durant himself is publicly saying, I don't feel that they, you know, that I was unduly pressured or that I was forced into it. Then that's, I mean, that's a big deal. And theoretically should close the book on. that, like they were people wondering if there would be any sort of repercussions for the Warriors

or their medical team or whatever after the way that things went in the finals. But that probably puts all that to bed. So, I mean, that's a positive, you know, you'd hate to see Kevin Durant coming out of it feeling like he was pushed into the most devastating injury. A player can suffer just by a team that didn't have his best interests at heart. And it probably helps the Warriors. It certainly couldn't hurt the Warriors in terms of their public perception and the way that they sort of operated throughout that process. So everything about that situation sucked, but if Kevin Durant is out there saying,

no, no, no, no, that's not what it was. You know, maybe at least puts a cap on that. Yeah, his new thing that he kind of really leaned into over the past year is that he's just a hooper, just wants to hoop. I don't know if you've heard this before, Dan, he said it once or 30 times. And that really seemed to be the theme of the interview as well,

because eventually they started to talk about what led to him joining the Nets. and his main reasons seemed to be basketball, which obviously, but also that's a little interesting considering that's not the sort of thing you respect to hear from a guy who just left potentially the best roster in NBA history. His direct quote was, because I wanted to, Durant said, and response to Haynes' question about why he did join the Nets,

the basketball was appealing. Hmm. So he goes on to say that he left Golden State because it was always going to be for the Nets. If he was going to leave Golden State, it was going to be for the Nets, obviously the Nix where the team rumored to be after Durant throughout the entire season, the one we

expected probably to land them. This is Durant. They got the pieces in a creative front office. I just like what they were building. Dan? Any thoughts on that? Well, first, I mean, it is maybe like the cherry on top of the Knicks

off season to hear Kevin Durant after the fact say it was never going to be the Nix. It was always going to be the Nets. That's kind of like, m'-mm. Chef's kiss for the Nix front office. Whether or not you've totally believed that, that's, you know, that's up to you. It's certainly, it's, it costs Kevin around nothing to say that right now. To me, it feels a little bit like at best a half answer, though. Like, yes, you can't dispute any part of that as far as why you would choose the Nets.

They have the pieces as far as, you know, they've been able to put together a competitive roster. Like, all that was missing was the superstar talent last year. And now you have that. You know, but there are, they build, they hit on Caris Leverta, looks like. they hit on Jared Allen. They find guys like Spencer Dinwiddie and Joe Harris that other teams have passed on before. And they kind of build a competitive roster that would, you know, a star can come into. The front office found ways, you know, like the contract structuring with Durant and

Kyrie Irving to be able to carve out enough cap space to also bring in DeAndre Jordan at a four-year, $40 million contract without having to sacrifice any max money for Katie and Kyrie. There was a lot of things that Sean Marks and that front office were able to do to put to get together the sort of circumstances or the structure for that a guy would be appealing to a guy like Durant. But if you're talking about teams that play attractive styles, like you just left the warriors. Like what are we talking about? If you're talking about creative front offices, one of the other teams that was reportedly very much in the running for Kevin Durant or very interested in his services was the Clippers. And Kauai Leonard even went out like saying,

let's play, you know, let's team up. Let's play together. And, you know, we've read nothing. We've heard nothing. But Hosanna is sort of sung and thrown at the Clippers front office and how creative and brilliant that brain trust is. So like it seems to me that there would be something else that would go into it. And it seems like it's being in New York. You know, there's all that all the discussion about 35 ventures and the, you know, the boardroom and the business opportunities and yada, yada, yada, that Kevin Durant sort of been interested in developing. So you get to go to New York. You don't have to go to the hellmouth maelstrom that is Madison Square Garden and with all the things that have gone wrong there over the last 20 years. So like the nets, yes, it's about the

structure they built. Yes, it's about the pieces they put together, but it seems like it's also about it's where I want to be, and I get to do that without being with the organization that I don't want to be with. And I don't see why there's any real downside to saying some of those things, maybe not all of those things in an interview, but it feels like Durant's giving sort of like half an answer without sort of giving you the whole picture. Yeah, I understand talking up the structure, because clearly if there's a difference between the Knicks and the Nets, that's the big one, right? There's an infrastructure in place. Seems like there's a plan in place, believe it or not, that's something a team would benefit from.

Imagine that. I also, I'm curious about bringing up those things in contrast specifically to Golden State because as we mentioned, not only were they successful, they really nailed the blueprint better than most teams ever. This is a team that wasn't, if we're going to go, fall on the whole built, not bought sort of way of thinking. They clearly built this thing from the ground up,

obviously drafting Steph Curry, Clay Thompson, Jemond Green, and getting some of these other pieces around them in order to form. this kind of colossal dynasty. I guess I'm just curious about the basketball fit, because that's also the logic that he used in order to rationalize going to Golden State and leaving Oklahoma City in the first place.

And as I'm sitting here thinking, I don't even know really how you would describe the Nets basketball. Like, there's a clear way that the Golden State Warriors play. The ball finds energy. The whole Steve Kerr thinking, like sort of teachings about, you know, everybody. moving and yada, yada, yada. But as I think about the Nets, a lot of the descriptions I'll come up with are things I would actually apply to the Warriors, no?

Yeah, no, I think that's right. I think that the, I mean, it's funny, there's a similarity to, I know Gons wrote about this during the playoffs, a similarity to like the Nets growth and the process era sixers where it's like, we're going to put a style in or a structure in place and then hopefully we'll just get better players to plug into it. Like, under Kenny Atkinson, if they haven't been a particularly fast, pace team, but they've shot a bunch of threes as the three point rate has risen there. You know, the team has improved.

They've run a ton of pick and roll. Obviously, DeAngelo Russell is a big part of that. Kyrie Irving, you'd expect is going to be a big part of that. Multiple ball handlers space the floor, pick and roll dive, big man with Jared Allen. There are similarities, like, structurally in terms of the way that they, you know, there is a style in place. We're going to, you know, they have never been like a great defensive team in this sort of era, but they have a style offensively, at least that seems like that they

want to be able to get to. And Durant maybe looks at that and says, you know, I fit into that as like the significant jump over Damari Carroll in that situation, right? Like, you know, no, I mean, yeah, arguably. But, you know, if you say like this is the way the team looks where, you know, X amount of passes per game and X amount of pick and rolls per game and X amount of three point shots per game, but then you plug in sort of higher value talent, then that's with a difference between a 42 and 40 record and like a 50, 50, 50.

50 plus win team. And so maybe there is something to that. But again, I tend to agree. Like, it's, he was sort of searching. It's, they said when he went to Golden State. Like, the idea was that he was searching for some kind of, you know, fulfillment of what he could be as a player. He consistently talks in interviews and he mentioned it again in the Chris Haynes piece

about looking to perfect his craft. It's something that he and Kyrie have kind of been sympathetico on this idea of that they are artists, they are craftsmen. They are trying to, you know, get to the fullest level of their skills. and squeeze every bit of toothpaste out of that tube. And maybe the answer in Brooklyn is that you get to do that as, like, the unquestioned number one creator. But then you're also doing it alongside Kerry. It's hard to sort of see the clear through line for him.

But I think you're right. Stylistically, there might be some similarities to what you got in Golden State. But you get to do it away from the shadow of the other sort of entrenched superstars that you've been alongside. And, you know, if you do it here, you're the guy. Yeah, I mean, I guess they'll run probably more pick and roll than he's used to in Golden State. though I doubt he would be involved in many of them. I guess he'll still have as many opportunities to isolate, even though Kyrie Irving is going to be there,

which, again, same thing in Golden State, and even going back to Oklahoma City. It seemed like that's what he wanted to get away from, but then he kind of found his way back to that, more of that in Golden State, and then perhaps maybe it just hits a different level at the nets, and then there's all this whole factor of, you know, what he will be after this Achilles tear.

He's expected to miss all of next season, and although he didn't confirm to Chris Haynes that it does seem like that's kind of what we're up against here. Haynes basically reported that that's kind of the thinking going forward here. But the Kyrie and KD relationship is an interesting one, especially because in the article he compares he and Kyrie to LeBron and Wade. And so this is KD talking here. I think the friendship part of the league has really grown, especially since LeBron James and Dwayne Wade, became such great friends and ended up playing together. People see friendship as the way guys are teaming up. There's nothing wrong with people speculating. That's just what it is, but we're just

good friends no matter what. Let's circle back to that. We didn't have to play together. It wasn't necessary. But we were friends before anything and we just happened to want to hoop together. What's the thing we planned to just came together? The hoop thing is it's relentless hoop. He just loves to hoop. I don't know if you've heard that. Infinite hooping. So a few things here. I think that the comparison to LeBron and Wade is super interesting, obviously.

There are a lot of parallels there. I was making the case that the Nets made a lot of sense going into the summer for Durant, specifically because it was similar to Miami before LeBron went to Miami. It was really just a blank slate that they could really apply their own personal brands to and perhaps turn it into something that it wasn't. before. But also, I think it's interesting to talk about LeBron in contrast to KD because LeBron is the guy that we all assumed that KD has been kind of chasing.

And though KD has performed better of late or at the very least, he's been more successful, and especially in the finals, more successful, we've never really given him the best player in the world belt. It seems to always default to LeBron. And then it seems like maybe this postseason was the time we were going to finally concede. But all of a sudden, you know, Katie has this injury. But it does feel like Katie's decisions as he goes along seem to keep replicating what LeBron has done.

And though LeBron is super influential, and it seems like the whole league tends to follow LeBron's lead. I think it's interesting when someone pretty much on his level keeps kind of following in his footsteps. Does that make sense at all? So, yeah, sort of. I mean, I think, and it kind of calls to mind something. I think it was you that wrote it, like,

for the year-end package we did, that 2018 going to 2019, the idea that, like, LeBron laid out this blueprint and then this whole generation of stars that's coming after, like, in terms of maximizing their flexibility with their one plus one,

two plus one deals. You know, try to sort of not necessarily being tied to one particular franchise, one particular outcome, but giving yourself the flexibility to dictate the way your franchise is going to operate and what, you know,

what role you're going to play in it, all those sorts of things. Sort of the ramping up of player power, how LeBron, you know, was the central, figure in that and then after that Kyrie, after that KD, after that Kauai and so on and so forth. I mean, I guess what I would say is just like if you're going to follow any sort of blueprint, LeBron seems like a pretty good one to follow in that sort of, in terms of maximizing your money,

your power, your success and your control. And that seems to be where Durant is at this point. Like, I don't really know, and I don't really know where else he kind of could go because just playing excellently only got him so far because then he was considered number two under LeBron winning championships only got him so far because he was considered like secondary to Steph Curry in the market and to anybody else who like won the title quote unquote on their own beyond that and so now it's like well what you know I guess what do you want to be past that well I want to focus on my you know what makes me happy and my business stuff and whatever well that's also LeBron, right? That's also going to, it's going to L.A. It's go, it's, you know, what makes my

family happy and, you know, so on and so forth. So I don't know, I mean, I don't really know what the particularly unique move that Kevin Durant could make to strike out in a completely new direction would be. But I think that, you know, this one, the move to Brooklyn, it maybe allows him, I mean, if he is able to, you know, come back at or near the level that he was beforehand and transform the nets into a consistent contender, like the greatest, player in Nets history is probably what, Jason Kidd, you know, beyond that. I mean, like, going back many years, like the most Nets players, maybe like Buck Williams or somebody like that. Is Dr. J? Dr. J. But that's sort of like the ABA era before you get into the really the NBA.

So yeah, but right, but that, right, Dr. J for a few years there. But in terms of like sustained success at the NBA level, they're just, there's not a whole lot of competition for the number one spot franchise wise. So like, if he makes them that, then yeah, then you're, you're the guy that people think of with that franchise maybe. So maybe there, there's sort of an aspect of that. But yeah, I think it winds up where he's got, you know, he has the, you know, the runway to chart a new course, but it's going to be really difficult to do that in a way that's sort of outside of the framework that somebody like LeBron has already laid out. Yeah, he is in a tough spot because like you mentioned, LeBron pretty much owns all the IP.

And so anything that he does will just be interpreted as following his footsteps. I guess the moves he's made have been very, like, there's very clear one-to-one. that it seems like he's following the same steps, whereas he joined the super team in hopes that that would kind of validate him just purely by winning titles because that's all anyone ever wants to talk about. It didn't happen.

And it seemed like going to the Nets was a similar sort of thing. I guess the clear departure from that sort of track that LeBron lays down would be the Nix. Not only because the NICs were the blank slate and a team that we all associated with KD more than Kiree, but also because that's the thing that LeBron never did, right?

But we all wanted him to go to New York. He seemed like he was interested and had they had any sort of infrastructure in place. Perhaps that would have happened as we learned from like the whispers from Dwayne Wade and LeBron James on the court. Was that this year when they were on the court in L.A. And they're like, yeah, we almost went there. Oh, yeah, because it was Wade's last game and it was at Staples Center. And they were talking or last game at Staples Center. And it was like, oh, man, there's only one way.

only two places it could have happened, you know, here MSG, and then, of course, that led to everybody going, like, wait, was there ever a chance that it could have happened there? And then, you know, days of naval gazing and bloodletting among next fans. I wonder how many, like, NBA players

just like fucking with us. Because they know as soon as something that, like that happens, we're going to be talking about this for, like, three days. I mean... Yeah, absolutely. If I was an NBA player, I would definitely lie constantly,

which as a journalist, I shouldn't be advocating for, but at the very least it's good for content, you know? I agree. And speaking of good for content, I want to go back to that idea of Kevin Durrett being like, listen, people are going to speculate. That's fine.

If I can't, the exact quote was, there's nothing wrong with people speculating. Kevin Durant, who has spent most of the last 12 months saying exactly the opposite of that, you know, getting into very public fights with like Ethan Strauss and other people who have written other things.

You know, there was a quote from beginning of training camp last year, October 2018. You know, when they don't know, when people really don't know the end, the conclusion or why I did something, they're always going to speculate and create stories and clicks, and that's only going to make me more upset. So, Kevin Durant, is it okay to speculate? Is it not okay to speculate? You know, I understand we all just want to hoop, but there might be also some time to sort of get our story straight on here. Who is hoping, though, as now Kevin Durant moves into this next phase of his career where he's got a few years, you know, under contract in Brooklyn and, you know, the sort of established building something else. if we start sort of speculating, maybe he can, you know, we'll all come to a new agreement on what is and is not okay in that framework. Right. Yeah, I think the one problem with players kind of fighting for their whole voice in the matter is,

it doesn't seem like Durant really has much he wants to say or any clear, like, through line of, like, how he thinks about these things. It seems like he kind of waxes and wanes depending on the situation, which is totally fine. Like, I probably do the same thing about lunch, for instance. Like, if you were to ask me about my lunch every day, I'd be like, I don't know. I'm a real salad guy this week, but next week you never know, man. But it just seems like even within this whole conversation with Haynes, it seems like there isn't really a clear understanding of what's going on or why he ended up in Brooklyn. Even when talking about Kyrie and saying that he wanted to team up with Kyrie, he was like, oh, yeah, yeah, like, want to play with my friends, but it would have been fine if I didn't play with my friends.

And so what do you, like, so why? What's going on here? And why is DeAndre Jordan there if it's not about playing with your friends? Like, what's the point? I mean, it's okay. I don't know. Yeah, I feel like I don't really know what the end goal of that sort of paragraph answer is, which that's, listen, that's okay. Sometimes you just start talking and you don't know where you're going to end up.

Shouts out to me on this whole podcast. I was going to say that's the group chat podcast, my friend. Yeah, that is the group chat podcast. But it's, I feel like he's, it's sort of like an almost like an answer in search of a question that wasn't really what, Haynes was asking or a presentation in search of like what makes it make the most sense. Listen, I think we can all sort of get on board with the idea that if you wanted to be out of Golden State, if you wanted to be on the East Coast, if you wanted to be in New York, clearly Brooklyn is a better opportunity for you right now than the Knicks would be

and clearly playing alongside Kyrie and I guess to another extent DeAndre Jordan as a, you know, friends of yours and guys that you have the Olympic relationship with and so on and so forth. like that makes more sense than not doing that if that's sort of if you've already laid out the parameters of what you want. So just like, yeah, go do that. And then, you know, get well soon and then get back and we'll see what, you know, what it actually looks like when you're out there. But it feels like, okay, Kevin Durant has spoken, but what the hell did you just say? Right. Well, I do wonder, like, how much he'll even be speaking this year. Like, when's the next time we're going to hear from Kevin Durant? And I also wonder, like, one of my big questions about

him going to Brooklyn is that's traditionally a pretty sleepy market. They've struggled to really draw fans to that arena, which is a really nice arena. Ben once or twice. Chris Almeida wrote about this during the playoffs for us. What is a Nets fan is essentially the question with the Nets franchise. And although landing two of the, I don't know, top 10, 15 players in the league, that's a good way to draw people to your arena and to create an identity. I do wonder

to just where Durant is at his career or in his career and where the Nets are as a franchise I wonder how much Durant will be in our lives over the next couple of years I guess the best way of putting that is like slowly have we just kind of lost the window

in which Durant is going to be the best player in the NBA? Because we're already kind of moving on to Janus. Does that sound fair? Yeah, no, it's kind of crazy. And I remember us talking about this you know, in different forms in written form in, you know, podcast and sort of general office chatter, like,

was there, it was like, what, a week, two weeks where we were, everybody was sort of ready to assert that. We had, you know, Charks wrote about how Duran has become sort of like the ultimate player. And there was the opening of the playoffs against the Clippers where it was like, holy shit, this guy can do everything. And is the only reason that the warriors are not down to the Clippers right now. and then he goes away because he gets injured, and Kauai is that guy. And then they're in the finals. And even though Kauai was pretty clearly dragging his legs around, you know, he wins the championship and Durant goes out again.

And he's going out for a year. And so it's Kauai. And now we're right back to the discussion of like, Janus wins the MVP and the award ceremony that took 16 years to get to. And everybody forgot about. But Janus wins the MVP. And so the question is, is they, you know, what does he have for an honor? Concord? Is he now going to establish himself that way? Is Hardin going to reassert himself now that he's alongside Westbrook and, you know, able to, you know, sort of redouble Houston's efforts to go for the title with the Warriors now hurt?

LeBron is coming off his longest sort of sustained rest period for in whatever, a decade and a half. And so is this now his like last effort to really show that he is, in fact, the best player in the world still? He hasn't been knocked off the mountain yet. And as we do all that, it's like, And then we'll see what Kevin Durant looks like after he gets done rehabilitating. Again, like literally the most devastating injury that an NBA player can suffer in a year. So I wouldn't want to close the book on it entirely, especially, you know, and other people, smart people have written about the possibility that the way Durant's game is will allow him to come back from this in a really, should allow him to come back from this in a positive way, maybe not, you know, lose all, you know, all of what has made him so special because shooting and, you know, the sheer size of him makes him a different player than somebody who's smaller and relies on explosion and

athleticism in the same way. But so it seems like that if the window's not closed, it's certainly, you know, narrowed. And the opportunity that he had to sort of at long last go from being the guy who's always number two to the own question number one guy. Yeah, it seems like that kind of passed by pretty quick. Yeah. And I guess it ultimately, I don't know how much it matters, that he never really grabbed the reins and was the face of the league because we have this discussion a lot.

lot, like who is the face of the league, which is different than the best player. And it's pretty nebulous and it involves a lot of other things like selling shoes and just like whether or not your mom knows about this player. But it seemed like Durant had all of those, like, not skills, but at least characteristics. He checked all those boxes in order to be that guy. And I just, I think we'll look back, you know, 10 years from now and wonder like whether or not he was ever the guy in a season. And perhaps maybe that's what drove him to Brooklyn in the first place.

But, you know, I think one of the interesting wrinkles, and it's something that you read about recently for our Are We Shore series about the Nets, is just they're going to have this bridge season now where Durant isn't there. And so Kyrie is really going to be driving the ship pretty much the same team that they had last year outside of a few new additions, including, you know, DeAndre Jordan, as you mentioned, Garrett Temple, some of these other guys. but I do wonder if we start to associate the Nets even with Kyrie instead. But I guess we'll see there.

But I think that opens up the question, which we could probably wrap on here, is, you know, next year the Nets aren't going to have Duran. So what are we expecting from the Nets? Like, do you think they'll be much better? We'll go with the prompt that we kind of put in the article. It's like, are they going to be much better than last year's Nets? Yeah, and I was a little bit skeptical. I mean, I think my simple answer is I think, yes,

they are going to be better. I like the, you know, a lot of what they lost around the margins is not, you know, the significant game changers that you would be looking for, you know, that are going to, like, seriously hurt. I think losing Ed Davis has a best sort of backup five defender. He was, he's better than people realize and he played a bigger role on that team that I think people realized. But theoretically, DeAndre Jordan's a good rim protector and another big body in a way that, like,

you saw in the playoffs that the Nets got, like, destroy. by Embed whenever he was on the court. DeAndre's at least a big enough body to be able to bang with some of those kind of guys, which they didn't have before. They added, again, theoretically, more shooting around. Like, Kyrie's a better three-point shooter than, you know, than DiAngelo Russell was. Kevin Durant, whether he's around or not, like, he's, you know, whenever he does come back, he's instantly the best shooter on the team.

You know, you still have Joe Harris. Tori and Prince is a reliable three-point shooter. So, again, theoretically, more shooting around opens up the floor more for either Kyrie in the pick and roll or isolation. When KD's there, him in the pick and roll or isolation, maybe the additional attention those guys draw can create more space, more opportunities for the other guys. You know, your complimentary players.

You get, again, hopefully a healthy, you know, fully rehabbed and healthy, Karis Lavert, who looked like he was on the way to being an all-star last year before he suffered that gruesome foot injury and then had to work his way all the way back during the season. You know, Spencer Dinwiddie's still in the mix. There's enough talent there for it to, still, you know, enough young talent that's progressing to take a step forward and Kyrie being an upgrade over DeAngelo Russell, which he should be. I mean, he's a more, just a more talented

player overall than DeAngelo Russell is, although he comes with certainly his fair share of caveats. I think that that, you know, that should drive them to being better. But I mean, does that, you know, I think there's a lot of Nets fans, I heard for many of them. And, and some other sort of, you know, National observers too, look at that and wonder, like, are you penciling them in for 50 wins? I don't know. I mean, it seems more likely to me that you're looking at like a 40, maybe 46, 47, 40, you know, 45 win team, unless sort of everybody takes big steps. And maybe they will. Maybe like a healthy, a full, healthy season from Lavert is worth two wins.

Maybe a full, you know, instead of Spencer Dinwiddie missing, you know, 14, 15 games if he's healthy the whole way, maybe that's worth another win. So maybe you are talking about like a baseline of 46, 47, and then if Kyrie goes nuts, it's more than that. But I think that there's a decent chance. And maybe that even goes to your point about what are we looking for from Durant? Like maybe we see how the Nets manifest this season and you're like, well, that's where he fits in. You know, like instead of having to play Tori and Prince 28 minutes a game or like asking for that much more out of your sort of second tier forward group like Rodion's Kourukes, as good as he looked at times. imagine putting Kevin Durantin over there and like that's the that's the leap. So maybe we wind up

elevating him in estimation even though he's out of sight. He's not out of mind. Yeah, that's the benefit of signing a player who won't play for a year is that you really can't like fill his role any other way. So there will be a Kevin Durant chalk line outline in the rotation even though you know, we won't get to see how it plays out next year. Yeah, they won 42 games last year. They finished sixth behind the Pacers. I would assume they'll be in somewhere in that range as well. You assume the Celtics might take a few steps back, maybe in the 45 win range. The Pacers won't have Oladipo probably until the new year. So they might not be as feisty in the first half of the season where teams, some teams tend to stack some wins. So yeah, I mean,

four, five, six, that seems about right, which is, you know, that's still something, especially considering going into last season, I think there were some doubters about whether or not they could even make it into the playoffs that year, considering a lot of their guys are still on the come-up. But I guess we'll see, and we'll see how Durant fits in from there. Who knows, maybe he comes in the playoffs and is the savior in that regard. But we're going to take a quick break here, and when we come back, we're going to talk about America. All right, we're back. Dan, it's Bobby.

It's me. I am Justin. Hi, how's it going? We're all on a first-name basis now. Well, if you've been listening to 35 minutes of Rionan Curious talk, I imagine you know what's going on here. So the thing that's actually happening in August is Team Eose is at training camp right now in Las Vegas.

I believe today, Thursday, is the last day of a three-day mini camp there in which they're hoping to start finding out some of the guys who are going to play for this team in China later in August and going into early September. I don't know if you've heard this before, loyal listener, but there have been a few dropouts from the original roster that we expected to be playing here. Here's the list of guys who has dropped out just from the initial list they put out at some point, I believe earlier maybe in the season or a couple months from now.

So this does not include the guys like LeBron, guys who have played in Olympics and have been kind of keycogs in this team before. Anthony Davis, pretty big one, James Hardin, Damien Lillard, Bradley Beal, Tobias Harris, C.J. McCollum, Kevin Love, Tamara Rosen, Paul Millsap, Eric Gorman, Jordan, JJ Reddick, Andre Drummond, Montrez, Harold, and even Julius Randall, but that one was a family scratch.

So we wish him the best. That's in total 14 guys that we all expected to be on this team who won't be there. Dan at one point in the midst of all these dropouts wrote that Damien Lillard could be the guy or had to be the guy really to step forward and be the face of Team USA. Unfortunately, I believe the next day or maybe the day after he also dropped out. Is that correct? The post went up on a Monday and then Tuesday morning he was out. So, I mean, listen, as long as it went up on Monday, it got a few hours to be out there. So that was worth it for that.

But yeah, it was a tough beat for your boy. Yeah, I mean, pretty much we could just put Kemba Walker in there and just control pace, you know? That's right. I was talking about it with Ben Glickman, you know, one of our esteemed editors here about like, really, if you go back over, the dame should be Captain America thing I wrote. And you just replaced all, with the exception of maybe like one paragraph that was specifically about the Blazers, every other instance of like, he's a high volume three point shooter. He's a great ball handler.

He's a veteran who's sort of having his own moment now. He's, you know, the kind of guy, he's, you know, widely respected and viewed as a leader. Like all these sorts of things, all we just needed to like strike through all the references to Lillard and plug in Kamba. I don't think we can do that in the content matter. management system, though. We might not be able to cross out a headline. That really is the only reason we couldn't have completely rerun the column the next day. But yeah, so now, Kemba, I'm kind of shocked that he hasn't dropped out because every, as you said, just about

everybody, every other notable name seems to have gone by the wayside this summer. Yeah, so he is the only all-MBA guy left in the field. There are still some all-stars here, although you have to kind of squint to find them. Amidst the available pool currently, the all-stars, let's just start there. Kyle Lowry is still here. He's the only one, I believe, with a medal amongst this group. No, Harrison Barnes also does, correct? Oh, and Mason Plumley. So Mason Plumley from the 2014 World Cup, I think,

and then the Lowry and Barnes from 2016 Olympics in Rio. And so Lowry, unfortunately, I don't believe has participated in the camp yet because he just went through thumb surgery pretty recently. The other All-Star in the midst here is Chris Middleton, who just recently made his first All-Star team, I believe this year. The rest of the roster or the available pool,

there were 17 players until things started to change today. Amongst the guards, you have Walker and Lowry, you have Donovan Mitchell, you have Deer & Fox, who was upgraded from the select team before the start of training camp, and Marcus Smart, who is also hurt. Wings, you have Jason Tatum, another Celtic,

that will be a theme here, Jalen Brown, another Celtic, Joe Harris and Middleton. I group these guys as forwards, because they're not necessarily wings, or kind of center types, but Thaddeus Young, Dan Devine's guy on the come-up. We'll talk about that, I'm sure, for 20 minutes.

Overnight's success, Thaddeus Young. There you go. Kyle Kuzma, Barnes, and PJ Tucker in the center group, is Bam out of bio, Brooke Lopez, Miles Turner, and Plumley. And now, just for reference sake, the select team, which is usually just a bunch of young guys

who get to scrimmage alongside. Some of the more veteran players and potentially are guys they can groom for the future. You have Jared Allen, Marvin Bagley, Mikhail Bridges, Jalen Brunson, which is a bit of a surprise there.

John Collins, Pat Connitt, another surprise. I think there's a story on the ringer.com. You can read about his pitching exploits if you'd like. That's right.

Shouts out to Alan Siegel. Shout to Alan Siegel. Jonathan Isaac, Jaron Jackson, Jr., Mitchell Robinson. And then these last two are two guys who are particularly interesting, Trey Young,

who I believe left the camp today with an eye infection. so it doesn't seem like he'll be in the mix for a veteran club roster spot, even though it seemed like he was one of the guys who could potentially vault from the select team. And Derek White, a guy who was getting a lot of buzz,

specifically from Rick Buecker's Instagram account, which I guess is where people report things now. Buecker reported today that White is expected to be brought to L.A., which is kind of the next phase of the training camp process. And it seems like he, is a guy who could be in the mix for a spot here, much to everyone's surprise, which is interesting because, you know,

I don't know if everybody knows this, but Greg Popovich is now the head coach. Right. Of the Team USA. What does it call? It's not the veteran team. It's the... I think it's like the senior team, right?

Senior team. There you go. Sure, whatever. And so Derek White seems like he has an inside track to perhaps like maybe vault over some of these other guys, maybe if Kyle Lowry isn't, healthy or Market Smart isn't healthy, maybe he'll end up on the team.

But we have a few questions about Team USA, because again, this is all we have to talk about. Let's start here. Who should start? So, Feeba rules, same as NBA, five players start. Dan. It would be amazing, though, if it was like, actually, hold up. They just remix the whole thing. Six guys on the court at all times.

Four point shot. But isn't there a three-on-three tournament happening, or is that just at the Olympics? No, I don't, I, well, next. Okay, we are above my pay grade. We're into Roger Sherman territory on terms of who's in the three-on-three situation. Right. But I know there is one, and I believe one of the Team USA three-on-three dudes is a podcast producer, and the other one might be Canyon Barry.

Wait. Is that fair? Is it Bobby? Bobby, have you been doing the basketballs outside of work hours? Have you been doing the basketballs? I've been moonlighting, yes. For Team USA, I'm very patriotic, Justin, you know this. That's a big come up for young Robert here.

All right. Dan, who is your starting five? Well, I think we wound up, as we picked this a little pre-pro, I think that we wound up with the same guys. I would have expected Kemba,

I mean, obviously Kemble Walker, the lone all-NBA guy, Captain America, I don't know if you've heard. I would expect him to start. Probably Donovan Mitchell alongside him. The reports have had him

playing at shooting guard a lot in the mini camp. So you probably figure they go alongside each other. Middleton as again sort of a versatile guy but also the other All-Star available at one of the forward spots. Jason Tatum is one of the guys who was like a

you know an early selection from the initial list they put together has been here throughout the process. He kind of feels like somebody that they you know the team USA brass kind of wants to insert as an integral piece of the program moving forward and if he is you know he can shoot it he can handle it he can play a few different defensive

positions he's you know young and long and big and et cetera. He seems like he would make a lot of as a small ball four or a small forward in the Fiba game. And then the five spot, it's kind of tough because, you know, you mentioned those guys, Bamadabai was sort of a late addition to the group, but there's Brooke Lopez and Miles Turner. I feel like Miles Turner as a shop blocker, as sort of a mobile big man who can also step out on the floor and shoot, but a younger guy that's a little more athletic than

Brooke Lopez might make sense as the starting center. But honestly, kind of whichever way that shakes out wouldn't surprise me at all. in that they're at the starting five spot. Yeah, Lopez is definitely a guy I could see starting there, especially because he has the veteran savvy that you feel like a guy like Pop would kind of value there. And that's also why I think you could see something where maybe Mitchell doesn't start and maybe they go a little bit bigger

and it's more Kemba, Tadam Middleton, and they try to slot one of these veteran fours in there, kind of like Harrison Barnes perhaps, considering maybe it's just like a nod to his veteran experience on the international stage. Could we even see starter Thad Young in the mix? I think if we're going to see... Now, Justin, I appreciate you clearing out for me to get into my Thad Young talk.

I think that there's a decent chance at least in one game that you could see Thad Young playing a bunch of minutes if he makes the team. Greece, Yonis out of Koumbo. Nobody in the NBA has defended Janus more over the last couple of seasons than Thad Young. He is weirdly good at defending, I mean, as good as anybody is outside of Kauai. at defending Yana Saddakumbo, that's the guy who can do it. So I don't think he makes a ton of sense

in other aspects. Like if you're looking for a defense first guy, PJ Tucker maybe makes more sense because he can shoot threes better than Thad Young is and in the Fiba game, that's so important having the outside shooting. But for that one game, that one matchup, I feel like it could make sense.

And we have seen in the past team USA rosters go a little bit bigger. But that was, I mean, it's all under Mike Shoevsky, so who knows how Pop is going to want to play. The roster makeup, the available options seem to tilt towards smaller lineups. But in 2014 in the World Cup, you had lots of, like, Anthony Davis with Kenneth Fareed together. You know, you had, you know, Carmelo being sort of like a power forward alongside DeMarcus Cousins or DeAndre Jordan in 2016. So I could see there being two bigs.

And if you have like a second real big, maybe it's PJ Tucker, maybe it's that young. Maybe, as you said, Harrison Barnes being that sort of like small ball four, but who still can, you know, handle himself in the post and make some sense there. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how Pop wants to play on the international stage, just because not only have recent Spurs teams kind of zagged and gone away from the three-point shot, how much that's a result of having personnel guys like DeMarco Rosen and Marcus Aldridge is a two-best player, who knows. But, you know, he did popularize the corner three long ago, but has been on record many times now in saying that he really hates the three-pointer.

So I do wonder how much he'll lean into three-point shooting is kind of his primary. primary objective here. Another guy, I'm sorry, before you go ahead, on that, I think the difference in the international game tactically might force him to, no defense of three seconds in FIBA, so you can have dudes just like pack the paint, plant themselves in there. So you have to shoot them out of basically, like, you have to make teams pay for not defending out on the arc or further out beyond that. So like you, the more guys that you have to shoot to be able to bust zones or to draw

teams out, the better your chances are of actually getting some of the dribble penetration of the rim, which is weirdly why a guy like Joe Harris might have a really good chance of making this team because you need like, you know, the only, you know, it's the Michael Redd, it's the Kyle Corbbers or whoever, like, you need those guys that can bust zones theoretically. So I think he might have to lean into three-point shooting if he doesn't want to. That's a great point. Although I could also see Pop leaning the complete opposite way and just like taking advantage of the feeble rule where you could like tip it off the rim and just putting out five centers and just like tipping the whole like the shit out of the ball as if it were like

volleyball or something. The only other guy I considered here was Jalen Brown just because if you need more defense on that first unit, he could flash as kind of the defensive stopper there, although it would give you a Kemba Brown Tatum kind of threesome there, which is basically the Celtics team next season. So which would be interesting but also a little bit weird on this stage. All right. So going that those are our fives going forward though we're going to have to find out who will actually make this team i think the best way to probably start here is who are the guys considering there's so much kind of influxier who are the guys that we assume are going to be there who are the locks how about you start by naming your guys yeah i think it's you know kemba as we mentioned i would go with that starting five the you know kemba donovan mitchell although you know as you said there might be an argument against that um kyle lowry just based on his sort of sort of service time with the national team. If he's healthy, I think he's there. Middleton, Tatum, again, I think, is somebody that they kind of want to lock in and bring

around. One guy that we both sort of, we both kind of thought about, but it feels weird a little bit on both sides of it. Harrison Barnes has put in the time. He's been part of the national team program. He was on the 2016 gold medal team. But he also, it's a, this team is, so on one level, maybe he makes the most sense at the lock because of just, you know, brand equity or whatever.

he's put into the time to commit to the program. But also, like, do you, if you are bringing Middleton and Tatum and, you know, some of the other sort of combo forward types, do you feel like they need Barnes? Or do you feel like that's just like in recognition of what he's given to the program? Well, I guess because he has the international experience, I'd probably put him above some of those combo fours that we're talking about. I guess he's also probably the most versatile offensive player among all of them. I mean, Thad Young, notably, as you know, Dan, does not shoot the three ball all that well. I'm not a Kyle Kuzma fan, although perhaps he would just jack it on this stage, and that would be enough if he would be able to spread the court for some of these other guys.

And PJ Tucker. They were talking about maybe, in practice, they ran Kuzma at the five a little bit, and apparently the other team scored like three straight baskets. So it's nice to know that what's happening with the U.S. national team is the same as what was happening with the Lakers. in like October, November, December, last year. That's great. That's great when things translate like that. And then, like, I mean, PJ Tucker is another guy like that, although PJ Tucker, I mean, good defender, obviously, probably one of the better defenders in the league and definitely one of the most versatile ones, but, you know, just a spot-up shooter.

So, Barnes theoretically can pass the ball a little bit. He doesn't really show that skill off much. We've heard tell. We've heard rumors about it. Yeah. And so I guess I could see that kind of playing out. And just, I mean, he's also a prominent guy. I mean, he was on the Olympic gold medal team last time, right?

He was in Rio. I don't know. It just, he seems like the type of guy. And then Tatum is an interesting one as well. I didn't put him amongst my locks, but you did. I think that's the guy if they're going to maybe grow the next phase of Team USA. He makes a lot of sense there, not only because of this type of game that he plays, but like, you know, it's last year around this time.

we were talking about him as a potential just superstar in this league. I do wonder if he could still play that role and he could be a frontline guy for Team USA. Let's move on here, though. So which guys are they going to cut? So this is really what it comes down to. Seems like there are a lot of places

you could trim the fat. It really comes down to where you'd want to go. I think pretty clearly the first cut is probably going to be Mason Blumley. although he has team USA experience, it seemed like he only got it based on his relationship with Coach K. It seemed like they needed another bouncy five. It seems like this is a consistent theme with Team USA.

They just don't have a guy who could play the center minutes and Plumlee filled that role adequately, but really hasn't taken much of a step forward in his NBA career. And although perhaps he has some inside knowledge about how to guard Nikola Yokic on the Serbia team, perhaps I'm not sure that's enough to to kind of carry him in the roster Smart's another guy

if he's not healthy excuse me I don't expect him to be there and also he seems like a long shot to me to begin with because even though he is a defensive bulldog a little bit too much like PJ Tucker without perhaps the ability to guard as many positions Bamada Baile late add another guy who

seems like an intriguing player but maybe a little bit too soon for him Kuzma not a fan and that young. I'm sorry, but like, oh, he's fine. Well, I'll always have the image of him defending Janus for national pride and World Cup glory. That'll always be what I imagine. I mean, it makes a lot of sense because Greece is one of the maybe like two or three teams that they really have to worry about,

even though the talent level is significantly dropped, has significantly dropped from years past. like this is still clearly the best team in the field by my eyes. And so, you know, if you're worried about Janus is one of the only teams that could pose a threat, you know, just bring it along Thad Young. I'm sure he'll be a great veteran presence in the stands as they're waiting for their next game. All right. But I think what's interesting from there, though, is going forward, obviously. It seems like this is a bridge to the next phase of Team USA, as we mentioned. I do wonder which of these young guys you're intrigued by.

Which are the guys do you think from this team could potentially form the next phase of Team USA? Well, you mean in terms of guys from the select team moving up or the guys that are likely to make it? Yeah, I think the select team makes the most sense to start with. And then we can talk about some guys who aren't really in the mix here for this year. Okay, yeah, I think from the select team, it's interesting to see that Marvin Bagley's name has come up a few times. I think Buker on his Instagram post. And then I believe it was Mark Stein also sort of seconded that, that he's been one of the, he's sort of flashed in the select team workouts.

You know, you just mentioned that they're sort of forever looking for bouncy big man who can defend in space, who can get out and run, who can shoot from outside, who can protect the rim. And Bagley really came on like the second half of last year for Sacramento doing some of those things. He's got all the physical tools to be able to do it. and certainly had the pedigree and the profile as a prospect and then at Duke. So the idea that he has the talent that might sort of play up in an international sort of role, alongside that Jaron Jackson Jr., also one of those sorts of guys who seems like he can kind of check every box.

You know, one of the common and most popular comps for Jaron Jackson Jr. at times was Chris Bosch, like a young sort of developing version of that with a three-point shot. Chris Bosch was like a hugely important piece on the 2008. team that won in Beijing as a defensive center sort of like laying the groundwork for what he would wind up being in Miami with the big three heat team. So I could see Jaron Jackson Jr. being that sort of guy taking over the mantle as a stretch five rim protector, you know, that sort of dude. And then I don't know, I'm really interested by this Derek White thing. I think that sounds like it makes sense in part because of Greg Popovich as the head coach, but also like big guard can defend a few different positions,

was a, you know, showed he can be like a borderline elite defensive player in the NBA last season as sort of his breakout role, you know, at times capable of taking over, you know, as a bigger scoring load, breaking people down off the dribble, you know, advancing three-point shot. He, maybe he does make sense as sort of an international player, but I don't know, was he somebody who's named even, like, registered with you before they started this select team process? No, I didn't even know he was on the select team until I saw Rick Beaker's Instagram this morning. As we are, we typically wake up, get the coffee going, hit up Eugers Instagram.

Right. Always double tap on his photos. Yeah, no, it's really interesting. I do wonder if the next phase of international competition will come down to Jamal Murray of Team Canada versus Derek White. And that will just be what we have for the rest of eternity. I mean, we got to clear out for Charks for like a year. That's right. This is the Charks Bowl.

But yeah, in addition to some of those names that you mentioned, I'm pretty bummed that Zion was not among the select team this year because clearly that's a guy who could have vaulted into the senior team and potentially just kind of ran the summer. It really could have been the summer of Zion. I totally understand especially

considering what happened to him at Summer League kind of going out after nine minutes why he wouldn't want to continue on playing outside of the Pelicans organization. You know, and I'm just curious about next year how many of the veterans we all assume to be a huge part of Team USA will make a comeback.

Anthony Davis hasn't played for a while. I remember being in a press conference scrum where he announced he wasn't going to play in the Olympics and he started to get legitimately teary-eyed. I think this is like something that is important to him and yet he hasn't been able to do it for a variety of reasons, some of which are self-imposed.

We should mention, I mean, Trey Young's another guy, I think would be really fun on the international stage, Bagley, if he continues on his progress from this rookie season. I think that's got, he's a really intriguing guy. a guy in transition, a guy who could

playing off of some of those veteran guards on Team USA, I think he could do a lot of fun things. The guy I'm just super curious about is Kauai. I doubt that he'll ever join Team USA, but especially considering all the load management, it takes him during the regular season just to make it through the entire playoffs.

But that's a guy if he just all of a sudden woke up and decided instead of going to the taco stand, he was going to join Team USA. I wouldn't be shocked. And it would kind of fur, this idea of like Kauai is the guy in the league and he's a number one guy and now he's assuming that mantle on the international stage. Oh yeah, he's he's never so I mean of those veteran guys it's that that's the sort of the crazy thing is that there is so you go through like

the 35 man like roster pool later they put together for like this cycle of 2019 World Cup 2020 Olympics and you're like oh right if like this the wing core of the 2020 Olympic team could be Durant Paul George LeBron Kauai and Jimmy Butler and then you're like okay, so then I'll see you later, Jason Tatum. You know, like maybe you don't actually play on the team at that point. And in the back court, like, again, you could have Steph Curry, James Harden, Kyrie Irving, Clay, maybe like Chris Paul as the like ceremonial Jason Kid in Beijing kind of role. Like the, you know, the guy at the end of sort of toward the end of the line, but it's been

part of the two gold medals before that. There's so many guys who have been part of this process over the last, you know, 12 years or so, and so many of them are still around, that it's kind of like the number of open spots for guys to come from this iteration of the team into what comes next year. There really aren't all that many of them. It might open the door more, honestly, for somebody like Miles Turner or, you know, whoever the sort of second big man would be behind AD if AD gets to play, like, because there's just so much depth on the wing and in the back court among the U.S. player pool.

that if those guys decide they want to, you know, I mean, if LeBron says, I'd like to play in 22, you know, like absolutely nobody is going to stop and he walks into a roster spot. So then that means like, okay, maybe not Chris Middleton, right? Or something like that. So the, the, the, how interested those established veterans who have put in the time, who have the gold medals already on their, you know, in their trophy case, if those guys decide they want to, it may be, uh, it can mean the opening or the closing of the door for one of these sort of young up-and-coming guys who then might have to wait another four years to get another crack at it.

Yeah, I mean, but the one thing, as Jerry Colangelo said in an interview with the athletic today, in the midst of throwing unnecessary shade at Carmel Anthony, was just how, you know, in 2008, the redeemed team won, and then all of a sudden in 2010, it was a completely different roster for the world championships in Turkey. You had guys like Durant. You had guys like Rose. You had guys like Curry. The talent level is probably a little bit higher than what we're dealing with this year. But I think it's a similar sort of, idea where it just kind of ushers in the next phase of guys. And I am in particular really interested to see when all these guys get together who really stands out as the alpha dog. And while that could be a bit reductive in the NBA context, I do feel like when a guy pops amidst other all-star level players, I think it's significant. And a guy that we keep hearing about in addition to some of the ones you keep mentioning,

Deeran Fox, a guy who just completely jumped off the page. He was supposed to be on the select team. all of a sudden he jumps up to the senior team, and all the reports coming out of Las Vegas this week is basically Fox is the guy. It's like every time he steps on the court, he's making an impact. And I could see him not only being a really good international player, but being the sort of guy who carries that into the next season. All of a sudden we're talking about, hey, Bagley Fox took a next step.

And even though Buddy Healed is 32 now, maybe he could be the guy on the wing, that fills everything out. Fox makes a ton of sense. Team USA in the past has played a lot of pressure defense. He's a guy that can certainly do that. It's a team that has run a lot. It was a fantastic playing 100 miles an hour for Sacramento last year. The shot came along, and even if he doesn't have it,

there's going to be enough shooting around him. It makes total sense as far as somebody that would play up at the international level. So we'll see. So they'll go through Vegas this week, and then they're going to go to L.A. And then I think eventually they make their way to Australia and then eventually to China. So we have a long ways to go here. Pop is even talking about bringing more guys than the 12 that they'll ultimately settle on throughout some of the next few phases.

So this one could drag out. But it could be interesting just to see all this play out and some of these guys interact. And then eventually take the stage against Mighty Canada and maybe Italy, Nigeria. We'll see if anybody can really hang there. But that's it for us this week. I will not be here next week. So somebody, potentially Bobby, will be. hosting group check next week.

But until then, for Dan for Bobby, I'm Justin. We will see you next time. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.