The Ringer NBA Show - Can the Rockets and Jazz Turn It Around? | The Mismatch (Ep. 344)

Episode Date: November 27, 2018

The Houston Rockets’ slow start might be the new normal (0:50), the Orlando Magic are ... good? (19:40), and the young New York Knicks continue to develop (36:01). Plus, the quarter-season awards (47:03). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Navy Federal. Navy Federal has a mission to put members first by making their financial goals the priority. Receive a lifetime of membership benefits to help you and your family accomplish your life's missions, like a full suite of financial products designed to fit your needs, 24-7 live support, and access to over 300 branches on or near military bases. Visit NavyFederal.org. For more information, call 1-888-442-6328.8. or download the Navy Federal Credit Union app. Message and data rates may apply. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me as he does every week on the mismatch is Kevin O'Connor,

a.k.a. Kevin O. Bomber, aka. Kevin O. Concert, A.k.a. Kevin O. Canned O. Comment. A.k.a. Kevin O. Bumble. Someone over the holiday weekend told me their favorite one ever was Kevin O. Bumble. I'm not on there anymore, Chris. Shout out to the guys in Connecticut. You deleted it? Yeah, I deleted it. a while ago. I haven't read downloaded it yet. How are you doing, Chris? Everything's good. I know you got to go

to the Northeast for Thanksgiving. Did you get snow? No snow. No snow. But got a lot of good food, a lot of good food. And I'm sure it was nice to get back to your hometown. Yeah. Did they all think you become an L.A. guy now? No, I'm the same person as I was. It hasn't changed you? No, not at all. Not one bit. No. How are you doing, Chris? How was your Thanksgiving? Everything was great. saw a ton of basketball, saw some in person that we'll talk about. But the first thing we'll get to is the events of last evening, which there were a bunch of great games that were going on. The first of which was The Wizards and the Rockets, which ended up 135 to 131, not exactly a defensive classic. Went to overtime, James Hardin, with the exceptionally rare 50-point triple double that did not include assist and rebounds,

but rather assist in turnovers. And then you have this wizards team, which over the course of the last week, has been a topic of incredible amounts of conversation. All the way until yesterday, a rumor comes out that Brad Beale wants out. Brad Beal after the game says that's nonsense. Anyway,

somehow the Wizards are still able to win some games, despite all of the distractions that are going on with them. It feels like, Kev, they're doing the thing that the spurs did with kawai they're doing the thing that we just saw recently happened with jimmy butler which is all the news comes out all of us run to trade machine and are trying to figure out where somebody from the wizards can land you and i talked about it last week every other podcast under the sun talks about it and it feels like they're going to let that all die down so that they're not doing a panic trade or that maybe the offers start to get

better as time goes on. But I'm actually surprised that they're winning some games and especially that was a good win against the Rockets last night. Yeah, they've won three of their last four, six of their last nine. They've been better for sure. It's amazing what changes when you play with effort, right? Granted last night giving up a hundred thirty-one, but when you're playing with generally more effort on the defensive end of the floor, it's amazing how things change, right? And the one thought that I had last night watching that game, Chris, especially towards the end, I was flying across the country, like my Wi-Fi was so bad. I couldn't watch all these games, unfortunately.

It was a great night of NBA, but I got it to work towards the end of the game and like, John Wall. I'm a John Wall hater. We've talked about John Wall before. I long felt he's one of the more overrated players in the league. But when all this stuff happened, I felt like the backlash was really strong. He's still a guy that can get you Ws, right? And we saw that last night with him getting buckets, generating assist for his teammates.

He played a really strong game for the Wizards, as did, of course, Bradley Bale for 32. points in 12 of 18. Those guys, when they're on and when they're trying on the defensive end of the floor, they're a dynamic back court. And so for Washington, I do think maybe the blow it up has some logic for this team, but I do wonder if you're the front office there with the talent on the team, maybe you just want to make some tweaks and just let that die down. Well, and sometimes we get caught up in, and I get it. A lot of these guys get paid a lot of money, and his contract is unbelievable. You and I had a big argument last year. He's overrated and overpaid. He is, but he's still going to win your games.

Well, we had this argument last year where I stood up for Blake Griffin and his contract. And here's the thing, they're still extremely good players. They're all-star level players. You can argue that they make too much money and that they're not good enough to carry you. But they're still great players that on a given night can be the best player on a floor, no matter who the opponent is. and so there's worse things. The worst things are paying bums. Like Andrew Wiggins.

Well, or like, you know, I mean, listen, they got on their bench. Maheem, he doesn't play. Yeah, he doesn't do anything. So, I mean, the bigger crime to me is always paying guys that can't play extreme amounts of money. Not guys that are legitimately awesome, maybe a little more than what they're worth. And you see, like there's flashes like that where you remember, oh, yeah, John Wall can be. super awesome. For sure. And he was last night. For sure. Like John Wall, my issues with his game have always been about, he doesn't try off ball. He puts his hands on his knees and he doesn't try. It's extremely frustrating because he's an average spot-up shooter and he could be a great cutter if he committed to it, but he doesn't. He doesn't defend with effort. When he does, he's good, but he doesn't. That's frustrating. He's had a history of knee surgeries, which is concerning moving forward into his 30s as he's going to be getting paid upwards of $40 million, near $50 million. That could be a bad, bad contract. However, just because I don't think he's like a top 20 player like a lot of

people did, doesn't mean he's still not like a top 30, top 35 guy. John Wall's still a good player. He's still a good player. He's just overpaid. So for Washington, the past week or so, they've seen a lot more of the good side of John Wall as opposed to the downside earlier the season. It was just downright, horrible, horrible to start the year, as was that entire Washington team. Well, and one of the stories that we have to take away from last night is the rocket 20 games into the season, or rather 19 for them, they moved to under 500. I mean, we're a quarter of the way through the season and the rockets are under 500. No one could have seen that coming.

I did not like their offseason, but I also, given their level of success with Hardin, Paul, and Capella healthy, and I know that Paul was out last night. But given their track record and their record, when those three guys are healthy, I thought, hey, I don't like what they've surrounded themselves with, but I still think they're going to win a ton of games. I would have never suspected, I don't care who's been injured, that they would be nine and ten, 19 games into the season. No, it's pretty shocking, really. I'd say in terms of the Western Carpenter teams, them or Utah are easily the most disappointing.

With Houston, you know, winning over 60 games last season with the offensive potency that they had in the all regular season, it's shocking. I know a lot of people have talked about the losses of Trevor Arisa and Luke Baamutei, and that's absolutely part of it, but it's also just been some diminished returns at the offensive end of the floor as well. This season, they're ranked ninth in offense, which is better than their early start where they struggled a little bit out of the gate. But still, last year they were one of the most potent offenses in NBA league history. So when your defense is ranked 25th, their offense is not making up for it right now. I think those losses were the reason Baamutei are certainly valid, but right now their offense just isn't clicking. at the same level that it was last season, not having threes at the same level so far this year.

James Harden, not nearly as potent this year, especially in transition. Chris Paul has had a slight decline as well in efficiency. But really, when you just look at a team that shoots as many threes as they do, you need to be better than ranking 23rd and 3-point percentage. I think over time they're going to get better, Chris, but right now they're just not performing the offensive end that they need to. Well, and sometimes, like we talked about,

it's just the fit with the team. Areza played the second most minutes on that team. You know, and forget Ryan Anderson, played 26 minutes a game for them. Richard and Bob Muthay played 26 minutes a game for them. They lack the same depth for sure. And like Anderson, again, it's not about his individual what he brings to the table. It was you're a good fit with the rockets because he's got to be guarded 35 feet away from the basket.

So now all of a sudden you've got major lanes for Chris Paul and for James Hardin to do whatever they want to do. You don't command that same level of respect. You just don't when it was Carmelo Anthony or James Ennis or whoever you're rolling out there. No. Or if it's Gary Clark or Marquis Chris or is A Hartenstein or Michael Carter Williams, right? They just don't have the same level of depth they did last season. It's funny over the weekend or maybe it was yesterday morning, Mike Dantonie and said how he wants to play his guys less time on the court.

But going overtime last night, you have Hardin with 47 minutes, Gordon with 43, Tucker with 43, Capello were 38, and their bench minutes are now. 19, 7, 5, and 3. They just don't have reliable reserves on their roster. So I think for the front office, Darry, there's a long time

to go to the season, right? There's going to be time to hit the buyout market and try to add guys that bolster their bench. But right now, they don't have the depth, they don't have the same shooting prowess

that they did last season, and their two superstars Hardin and Paul aren't performing quite at the same elite level that they were last season. It's a lot of factors on the offensive end, and obviously their defense

just hasn't been the same. Yeah, that is. That's obvious. what is most important because they had become a top 10 defensive team last year. This year, they're in the bottom 10 of the league. They're 23rd as of right now on defense. And last year, they ended the season, ranked 6th. Yeah, with the number one offense. One of the few teams that would rank in the top 6 for both. Yeah, a precipitous drop. Speaking of that, you mentioned Utah. That is a shocking score to see come across a line because, you know,

Utah is a tough place to go and play, but beyond being a tough place to go and play, they have been an outstanding defensive team. We've talked about this throughout the season that last year, they were ranked second in the entire NBA in defense. And then you team up that they had had a very good home court advantage. They're a Midland defense so far this year. They're ranked, I think 16th. It's come up a little bit. Now, if we are going to make an excuse for Utah, I thought that team was going to be fantastic this year. year. They're sitting at 9 and 12 through 21 games this year. Their beginning of their year's

schedule has been extremely tough because they've played so many games on the road already. I mean, you're through 21 games so far this season. And if I'm not mistaken, you're 7 and 6. So 13 of their first 21 games have been on the road. But they're 7 and 6 in those. Being 2 and 6 at home is unfathomable for the jazz. Yeah, it's hard to believe. But whether it's home or road, Chris, the puzzling thing to me is the defense, right? If you look on cleaning the glass.com

at the frequency of shots allowed, it's pretty identical to last season. They're doing a great job forcing teams into mid-range jumpers. That's what you want to do. They're not allowing teams to get to the rim. They're not allowing teams to shoot a lot of open threes. But teams are just hitting shots against them.

But it's more than that, of course, because we're watching the game with our eyeballs, right? You look and look at the numbers and say, oh, they're forcing teams in the shots you want them to, but they just aren't performing on the same level, period. And the guys on that team, Rudy Gobert, especially have talked about with the new freedom of movement rules on how that's restricted them. A lot of their aggressive defensive players, Jay Crotter, Royce O'Neill, and so on and so forth. But I don't know, man, like, I think they're going to get better over the course of the year because in terms of the process, they're forcing teams on the shots you want to,

but it's getting to the point now that I just wonder maybe there's just something fundamentally wrong with this team in the defensive end of the floor when they're just hemorrhaging the points that they are. And last night, getting just stomped at home by Indiana. No, Donovan Mitchell, to be fair. Mitchell didn't play last night. Okay, well, what are we going to pencil Mitchell in for?

It's not enough for them to have won that game. Of course. For sure. What was it, 121.88? Of course. I'm not saying they would have won the game with Mitchell, who we could talk about as well, who also needs to prove his office.

offensive scoring efficiency, but that's a different conversation. Okay, some other ones that we do need to mention that took place last night that we could piggyback off are the Hornets, which I'm going to tell you this, that's a sneaky league past team. I swear the Hornets play thrillers all the time. Both of their Philly games have been absolutely unbelievable. Kemba's one of the most fun watches in the NBA this year. And then last night, this game just got extremely crazy at the end, and they end up holding on. though the Bucks made a big time run at them.

They end up holding on 110 to 107 last night. There are 500 team right now, but the Hornets are one of these teams that I would not want to see. Like, come playoff. I think they're going to end up being a playoff team, and if you're a high seed and you draw them, I'm not going to want to see the Hornets because they stick around with these teams.

They clearly have gotten much better than they were last year. And then they've got that one, give him the ball, and he can go get you a bucket guy in Kemba. The Hornets have been sneaky fun this year, Kev. Yeah, and it's largely due to Kemper Walker. The year he's having, even though the odds are, he's not going to continue this just scoring surge right now, 28 points per a game, shooting nearly 39% from 3.

Of Corey, the Synergy, he ranks in the 84th percentile in scoring efficiency has been absolutely remarkable. But even if he doesn't, even if his scoring efficiency does dip a little bit, He still, to me, is an example of a guy where development number stops. At 28 years old now, he's improved each of the last five or six years incrementally each year. And he's on his way to having a career season.

And granted Charlotte is just 10 and 10. They are outscoring teams by 4.2 points per 100 possessions. They're defending better. Temba's supporting cast is solid. It's not great. But they're working with what they have. In my article this week on the Celtics, I alluded to how Boston runs their pick and rolls, like they're setting screens inside the three point line.

I think the little things that Charlotte does, like giving Kemba Walker a downhill lane to get to the basket or pull up from three really allows him to just maximize himself within their offense and maximizes their pieces, which are okay and they're not great. You know, I saw Matt Moore, my buddy from the Action Network, post a stat last night, which was rather unbelievable. After they won last night, since the 16-17 season, the Hornets going into that were 2 and 20 in three-point games, and now they are 3-and-20.

So it stands the reason when you were talking about their point differential. Usually those things kind of even out, and yet they have been miserable in the close games. They've gotten their heartbroken over and over and over again. I mean, 3 and 20 in one possession games? that's just incredible. And so now we have, I mean, at least they got that win last night, and they've been a fun watch. I guess it's maybe they just play thrillers all the time. And that's why every time I seem to watch them, they're playing some game that comes down to the last frigging shot.

Have you gotten used to seeing Tony Parker in a Charlotte jersey yet? It was weird. Yeah, it was weird. And he missed two big free throws last night when it mattered most. He had a big three, though. He did. Andy also had a drive. Yeah.

No, I'll never get used to it. I know. I'll tell you this. obviously I watch the Spurs Grizzlies right there over the Thanksgiving weekend. It's weird watching the Spurs. It just is. Without Parker and Genoblee?

Yes, it's just strange. It's very odd. All right, so what you worry about is like game on the line. It's whip, whip the ball around when somebody's going to bang an open shot on you, right? I'm so used to seeing Matt Bonner from the corner or it's Tony Parker running around a screen and roll that he kicks out to somebody that's moved, whatever.

You know what they ran with the game on the line? I'm freaking not. DeMarterozo's in isolation. You know what I mean? It was, it's just weird watching them. It is. To me, it's not weird seeing some of the younger guys change teams because we see it happens so often now, right?

With Kauai and a Toronto jersey and, you know, Damar with the Spurs. It feels weird, but it's not like seeing Tony Parker not playing for the Spurs when he was, what is he, 34 years old now, if I remember correctly? No, sorry. I'm sure he would like to be 34. He's 36 right now. Oh, my. Turns 37 in May.

geez. Oh my God. Time goes by so quickly, Chris. He came into the league. He came into the league like Super Bowl. He was one of those guys that was 19 when he came in. Right. Other thing is you yesterday posted an article about the Celtics and how they can get it back. They moved over 500

with a win last night at the Pelicans. But I'll tell you what, Kev, you got some really good timing. You post about Clay Thompson and the shooting and all the work he does and how the percentages were low, but then he had this historic night where he hit the most

three's in NBA history the same day you post the article. Then you talk about the Celtics and how they can fix things and how it can get better. They threw up 124 last night and one of their most impressive wins of the season. Yeah, and it helps when you put your five best players in the starting five, right?

As much as Gordon Hayward, you would like to say he's one of their five best players, he's not right now. Marcus Morris has been better than him this season, as has Marcus Smart, those two last night, especially Marcus Smart on defensive end of the floor. those guys are really remarkable. Well, and I saw this last year because when you pay somebody a ton of money, you want to make it work.

And the team I cover, they threw Chandler Parsons in the lineup. And obviously Hayward is in a much better shape to contribute that Parsons was. But it is almost this like you want it to work so badly, whereas clearly you were trying to probably ingrain too much too quickly, especially with a team that had gotten so used to playing at an extremely high level together. Interestingly enough, it was the offense that has been the problem for the Celtics. Their defense is still, I believe, number one in the NBA so far, right? No, it's not number one. It did slip.

It was number one early in the season, but it's number two now. But over the last couple weeks, it has slipped. I believe over the November 3rd, I want to say, they're 8th. So their defense is still fine, but the offense absolutely needs to make change. changes. Yeah, Oklahoma City moved to number one, and that obviously explains their surge over the course of the last three weeks. All right, other game that took place last night that is worth noting of things that came out of it. So we mentioned the Utah game that took place last night, the shocking loss for them. We also talked about that Celtics win on the road at the Pelicans, where they, I mean, 124 is a big number for them.

The other one that took place last night was the Warriors and the Magic. and the Warriors are still having to get by without having Steph Curry and without having Draymond Green. And it didn't look good for them. They got outscored 39 to 21 by the Magic in that second quarter. And they needed all of Kevin Durant's 49 points last night and big clutch moment shots to outscore the magic. They're down going into the fourth quarter. They outscore the Magic 37 to 27. Durant has 49.

And so he's the guy that could take over the game and win the game for him. but damn if they didn't need him to be at peak of powers because Orlando, they're going to really regret this game because they had a chance to get a big win. I don't care who's playing for the Warriors. That would have been a massive win. They got literally nothing out of Aaron Gordon, 22 minutes of nothing, four rebounds and no points. They got big numbers off their bench with Terrence Ross. Also, Jonathan Isaac was nice for him. But the big one is Vosovic, who this season has been an absolute all-star.

And he's got 30 and 12 and 6 assist again. And there's been so many nights where Vuzovic has been the best player on the floor. He's now 28. NBA is so weird that you can say that sentence and it doesn't sound silly because it's been true. Well, I mean, listen to this. This is just the last five games, 24 points, 13 rebounds. five assists shooting 55% from the field. They won in LA and he's got 31 and 15 to go along with seven assists.

They turn around on a back to back and play at Golden State. He goes for 30, 12 rebounds and six assists. So he's had 61 points, 27 rebounds and 13 assists in two games. Nicola Vuzovitsvich. What? Yeah, he's a legitimate, most improved player candidate this year, no doubt about it, especially if he keeps this up. None of one of those big men who expanded his range from deep mid-range to three.

And it's made all the difference for him over the last couple of years, and especially this season. 39% from three so far this year. And he's averaging 21 points and 11 rebounds to go along with one block on one steel. He has just been outstanding. Do we just say, hey, this is the Steve Clifford effect? I mean, I was always a big fan of him. This has been happening, though.

I mean, you know, last year is when he really started shooting threes. He shot 31.4% last season. We'll see if he sustains that. That's been integral to his scoring efficiency, and that number could drop over the course of the year. But either way, either way, he's still been really good, and he's been better overall, especially passing the ball too. Well, and I'll give you credit because you marked Orlando as a possible surprise team.

I did. If the playoffs start today, hey, I did. Oh, yeah, that's right. A team to watch. You said a team. That's right. Listen, a team that you could go out of the game. your way to watch. I was like, oh boy.

No, but the reason you said you go out of your way to watch it was not because they were going to win a another game. No. Just because they could be interesting. They have a lot of length on their team. And they could scare people. For sure. They have guys who can go off like Terrence Ross did last night with 28 on 15 shots. They have some interesting players. I mean, they're two guys away or more from being legitimate top playoff team and a lot of development on the roster too, for that matter. But they're interesting. They certainly are. And if the playoffs started today and we're a quarter of the way through the season, they're a playoff team.

They are a playoff team as of today. They have the eight seed right now. Yeah, the eighth seed in the Eastern Conference should not be in the playoffs. We can't change the rules now. I know we can't change the rules, but it's disappointing that maybe this could end up being Memphis that ends up missing on the playoffs because of the conference and balance. It's just disappointing. Why would you say that?

I'm just saying, Chris, it could end up being Memphis. And then it will be a conversation, right? I'll tell you that I don't know what kind of odds you could have gotten that the magic would be one game back from the Celtics after 20 games. It's something else. Outrageous. On the other side of that game last night with Kevin Durant, having to put up 49 to beat the magic,

having to put up 44 to beat the Kings by one on Saturday. Kevin Durant's getting a taste of what it could be like to be alone right now. I just having one star by his side, isn't he? I mean, he does have Clay Thompson still. Of course, he still has Clay, but no Draymond, no Steph. and the supporting cast is solid, nothing special. Well, and he's going to add two more pretty soon, because Curry is evidently full participant,

and so he's really close to coming back. And Cousins, the report yesterday was that he's been playing in their scrimmages and that he is close to coming back probably, you know, or a month out probably, but they're targeting right after Christmas as a possible return for DeMarcus Cousins, and if he's already participating in the scrimmages, So it's not going to be long.

And then a season that they have had their struggles this year so far, and I say struggles, they're still in second place. They've won three in a row. But they're five and five in their last 10. And they've had some problems without guys. And obviously, you knew we've got the Durant-Dremont fight that has already happened. But the Curry thing, integrating him back in and Draymond back in totally easy. I am very interested to see what happens in a month, though, when it is time to integrate DeMarcus cousins into everything and how he fits with this particular team. Yeah, to me, I mean, granted Golden State, a lot of people are annoyed with them being a jugger enough,

but in terms of just looking specifically at their own team and their own circumstances, it will be fascinating to see how they do in a great boogie. It also depends on what level of a player he is. Players returning from torn Achilles in the past have had issues getting back to the same level. First, we need to know what kind of player is DeMarcus Cousins when he returns. But if he's even 75% of what he was, he's still a guy who can make an impact for you. And for Golden State, I think more than anything else, it'll be fascinating to see how it gives them the ability to play big, right? If you can put out a lineup with cousins, Dramond, KD, and that's your front court, that's huge.

That is huge. And that can give a team a different look when they're so used to having to go small against Golden State. Well, and the big thing is, can a guy that averaged 25 points and 13 rebounds a game last year before his injury, can that guy be a role pull? right? I don't know. I don't know if he can be a role player. And you've got this other little sneaky issue where he does need to have a good season and prove himself to be able to be a big time winner because he's in a contract here too. Right? I mean, you know Cousins wants to get at least a semblance of the big payday that he wasn't able to get because of the Achilles, right? Yeah. And the issue is for him, it might have to end up being another short-term deal

for a full, prove-it season. One more year removed from the injury next year. I can't imagine a team giving him a significant payday next summer unless somehow he's just all the way back. But even then, I'm not sure the opportunity is there when he's still below the totem pole behind Kevin Durant, Stefan Curry, and Clay Thompson. He's not going to get as many playmaking touches as Draymond Green.

There's going to be situations where Cousins is a glorified spot-up shooter. Yeah. It's going to be hard to put up big numbers. You're probably right. doing a one year and then another one year for the prove it. And we have seen guys just have not been the same when they come back from Achilles. It's been very, very, very, very, very difficult for anyone to exceed expectations post Achilles and most of them are a radically different player.

It would be interesting to see with cousins, for sure. But they're saying about a month out. Other things that we do need to mention, Markell Fultz, the story was out there. We talked about it last week. Our own John Gonzalez at the Ringer wrote about it this week. He is going to see a shoulder specialist. It is not like the Sixers have missed him or have needed him because they've got now Jimmy Butler the closer who's been closing games for them. They're currently the third best record in the Eastern Conference.

A Bede is playing at an MVP level. And so they're able to be without Markell Fultz and it's no big deal at all. but still, you know, not practicing, not playing, going to see a specialist for his shoulder. And so that's been the latest update on Fultz. What do you think? It seems like as John Gonzalez wrote last night, heading towards a breakup with Markell Fultz and Philadelphia 76ers. And that's probably for the best, right? I think for both sides for Markelle.

Maybe headed for a breakup, Kev, but could his value possibly be lower right now? No. I mean, you wouldn't give up anything for him, would you? Very little. The thing with Fultz is it's not just the player here. It's not just a former number one pick. It's a former number one pick who is due to get paid $9.7 million next year, $12.3 million a year after that, $15.6 in the final year of his deal.

That's a lot of money for a guy who right now is a negative player for your team. That's a significant investment. And it's not like the Sixers would just want to give him away either. No, you can't just give him away. But honestly, I wonder if you surveyed this. the league. I mean, I guess you just need one team that said, hey, this guy was the best player in the draft or believed that. And we've got the infrastructure to help him get to where he needs to be. I wouldn't give up on him, though, for that exact reason, whatever his problem is, whether it's, you know, Gonzalez mentioned it could be a thumb problem.

It's been reported that could be a risk problem. Shoulder, whether it's nerves or something else, whatever it is, the mental component. I still think at 20 years old, there's a lot of time for him to fix it. But the problem is that he could be the type of player. It's not until his second contract. I mean, he'll only be 24 when he gets his second deal, right? It might not be until he's 26 until Markle Fultz is back to being Markle Fultz. And I talked to an executive a while back about those fringe players, right? There's certain guys out there that you like, but you don't want to invest in them.

You don't want to have to spend the resources or the money on that player. So you let him develop overseas or in the G-Level. league or in another organization, and then when you feel like that guy is ready, that's when you go get him. Markle Fultz is kind of in that category right now, especially when you factor in his salary, the amount of money that's going to need to be committed to him. Never mind the microscope he'll be under in your situation and all the problems, but he's still the type of guy that long term, I'm not giving up on him.

I'm just not sure I'd want to be the team that's committing to him right now. Well, and here's the thing. When you were talking about I wouldn't want to give up on him, it's pretty, clear. I think we can determine the Sixers have no idea how to handle it. Listen, they got bigger stuff going on. They're an awesome team. And they've got really great players on their team. They're Eastern Conference contender for the NBA finals. And the Fultz thing is just an incredible hassle. You know what I mean? It just has been. It's been a hassle. And the PR's been terrible. They just haven't known how to handle it.

So on that front, yes, I get I wouldn't want to be the one that gave up on him. On the other hand, this has been way too high maintenance. It really has. It's been too high maintenance. There's been way too much talk about a guy that doesn't even play or contribute for them, especially when you're the third-ranked team in the Easter conference.

I've got a chance to play for a title. And it's just not the best situation for Mark Hill's development either. And on the NBA squad, he's behind Ben Simmons. He's behind Jimmy Butler. He's behind T.J. McCaudill for that manner. He's behind Joel Lambede for guys

that are going to get touches. Landry Shamit, I think I said this to you earlier this year, Chris, or maybe it was in our article, I forget exactly, but Landry Shammett, I made the argument that, you know, with his three-point shooting, maybe he's more important than Markell Fultz as a rookie. He's shooting 39% from three, nearly five attempts per a game. Shamet's been really good for them as a 26th pick in the first round. So Markell's behind all these other guys and when he's a guy that needs touches to develop, he that needs to be in a situation where he can get those touches without pressure. That's not finals expectations.

not going to happen in Philadelphia. Put him in the G-League maybe? Would you consider that? The thing is, though, is even if you put him in the G-League and give him 35 minutes per game, 20 shots per game, it still could be a medical issue. It could still be physical or mental component that needs to get fixed over time

where the cure might not be playing time. It might just be the passage of time. And I'm going to give you a little credit to just circle back on the sham it thing. Listen, I was at a game and I watched him go one for 11 from three. So, hey, you take that one off, the kid's shooting over 40% easy for the season from three. Shamet's a guy I way underrated him in the draft.

I look back in my ranking and I'm disappointed. With Shamit, like, he was a guy at Wichita State where he had a playmaking role. And that's not his game, right? His game is what he's doing now for the Philadelphia 76ers. It's playing off ball and taking advantage of secondary opportunities attacking off the dribble. He's not a primary ball handler like he was asked to be at Wichita State. The role he's in now for Philadelphia is perfect for his game and for his development. There was somebody that I talked to when I was putting together the Ringer article that I wrote about the nine guys that will not fail.

Shamet was one that I considered because I really liked him. When I called around the people and I knew some people that knew him very well, they actually talked me out of it just on the injury thing. Yeah. That he is a big injury risk because he wasn't able to stay healthy. healthy in college. He lost a couple of different seasons while in college. So if I'm just looking for, hey, if I want to be able to look back at this list and say, hey, there's no way that these guys will fail, that's an issue. Yeah, listen, he stayed healthy so far. Here's hoping he stays healthy. But I loved him and I really considered him putting him on that list because I thought he was

ranked too low and I was looking for guys that were ranked low. But he had lost an extreme amount of time in college. Yeah, he underwent surgery to repair a stress fracture in his foot in November 2015, and then he had surgery on his right foot in July 2017. I had him ranked 40th, way too low behind guys like Malik Newman. He's in a good spot right now. Melvin Frazier. Yeah, he's a good spot. He's in a good spot. And he's getting to play in a winning context, which is always, I think, very helpful for development. Because Shamick could be playing for a rat team and putting up big numbers, I'm sure, right now. Or on a team where he's not getting a open opportunities, open shooting opportunities,

where he doesn't have playmakers creating for him. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. First, I want to tell everybody that today's episode of the mismatch is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hiring can be pretty time-consuming. You post a job on several online boards only to get tons of wrong resumes. Then you have to sort through all of those resumes just to find a few people with the right skills and experience.

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And right now, our listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address, ziprecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. If you love this show, show your support to it and ZipRecruiter by going to ZipRecruiter.com slash Ringer NBA, R-I-N-B-A. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Ringer NBA. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to do. hire. Recently, I saw the New York Knicks in person and because of Jerry Ferrara of hontorrhage and power out to Jerry. Shout out to Jerry. He said, I want a lot of Knicks talk and

I said, listen, the rules are. I always talk about the Knicks. Let me say this. I watched them come to Memphis and defeat the Grizzlies. So it was the first time I got to see the Knicks in person. And I know a lot of people involved with that franchise and I was talking to them about kind of their team so far. And one of the things they said was their young team. Did you ask why aren't they tanking? No. They could defend towards the end of games that they would probably have a better record than

they already do. But I kind of asked them about different players. Obviously, this is just us talking. And here's the sense I got. Number one, they love Trier. They do. And Trier was an undrafted kid out of Arizona who they're a big fan of. And they like him as one of the young guys on the team.

The other one that they like is Mitchell Robinson. They think they've got something there with Mitchell Robinson. And then just ask him about some of the other players. I got the Hazzonia thing is a disappointment. You know, I think maybe if you gave him a different set of scenery from Orlando, but the Hizonia thing's been a bit of a disappointment. And frankly, Knox, I thought Knox would be better, didn't you? I thought Knox would be better.

This has been an outstanding rookie class so far being able to contribute. but I figured Knox, the first person that was mentioned to me with everybody with the Knicks that I talked to was Trier. It was not Knox. It was Trier, which is strange. Trier's also, you know, over three years older. I get it. With Kevin Knox age is a big component here with his struggles. But, you know, the guys that are succeeding for that team, it's amazing how many rejects they have, right? Trere going undrafted, Moodye, struggling with the Nuggets, Noah Von Leigh, going from the Hornets, then time with the Blazers and the Bulls, His own, you obviously, looked like a bust with Orlando.

Mitchell Robinson, another guy who, you know, he didn't go to college basketball. He just took the year off. He is a, by the way, he is huge. Never seen him before in person. He's big. He's huge. And he had like, you know, the thing they told me was one night he'll foul out in 10 minutes. And then the next night, like he had six blocks, I think it was against the Celtics and help him get a win.

So, but there's something there with him. Sure, definitely. And Trey Burke as well as a spark plug point guard coming off your bench. Saw him last week, scored 29 off the bench against the Celtics. He had a 30-point game earlier this season. I love him as a story. I really do. Because I went to the NCAA tournament the year that they ended up playing in the title.

They lost to Louisville, right? But they had a team with him, the kid that flamed out with the Oklahoma City. What was his name? McGarry. McGarry, Hartway, also Glenn Robinson, the third. was a third, yeah. Stouskas.

I mean, they were loaded that Michigan team was. Yeah, they were. They had Karris Levert coming off the bench,

too. And I really thought Burke was going to be very good. And he is one of the few Utah picks or personnel decisions that just didn't work out

at all for them. And Burke now, you know, this guy, you get major humbled. You're one of the best players in college basketball. You're a lottery pick.

Next thing you know, you're playing for like the Westchester Knicks in the G League. And now, he's become a really solid player. A guy that I kind of look at and go, I wouldn't want him to be my starter, but damn,

he'd be a hell of a backup to have for sure. For sure. A guy like Trey Burke, I think there's always going to be games where he struggles, like Sunday. He didn't shoot the ball well. It's okay.

He's going to have those games because he's your backup point guard, but he's also going to have games where he just sparks your offense. You know, everything you said about Trey Burke also applies to Noah Vonley. Draft the 9th in 2014 by Charlotte

really was effectively is zero last couple of seasons going from Charlotte to Portland, Chicago. But now in New York, he's been pretty good defensively for this team. He's carving out his niche as a defensive forward, switching on pick and rolls, defending multiple positions, rebounding the ball, and scoring, you know, timely buckets on cuts and dives to the rim. Noah Vonley suddenly, only 23 years old, only 23, looking like at least a guy who's going to be a rotation big man if he keeps this up. The other one that I got to mention is Frankie Smokes, which I hate to report this to Nick fans. Everybody I talked to was out on him.

And it's quick. It's like he's not a point guard. They've been playing him at backup shooting guard, and he hit some shots early in the season, but the kid can't shoot. No, he can't. And it was just not a good report. I did not get, hey, he's going to get there. Hey, he's really got some promise. Or, hey, when he figures it out, it was like, I don't.

don't know what he does, you know, or where he's going to fit. And I was like, yikes, yikes. I mean, I hate to report that, but that's, and maybe they're wrong. But I'm telling you, these are people that are with the team every damn day. Yeah, Frank Milakina, when you enter the drafts, here was the report. This guy can defend, and his offense could take a long, long time. But he's still a lottery pick because of his youth, because he has good passing vision. Maybe if he improves his ball handling, he can, you know, take advantage of that passing vision.

If he improves his shooting, maybe it can open up his game. It's only a second season right now. And again, another one of those guys I'm not giving up. Because if he improves a shot, if he improves his ball handling, he can become a solid offensive player who makes his mark on the defensive end. However, Chris, the early returns with his offense are just absolutely horrific. I mean, he can't score from anywhere. He can't score inside.

He can't get to the room anyway. When he does, he can't score efficiently there. He doesn't shoot the ball well on spot-up operations. opportunities, doesn't shoot the ball at all off the dribble. About his only positive on the offensive end is his passing vision, but his ball handling is not improved enough for that to manifest in his game. I wouldn't give up on him because he's only 20 still, but he has a long, long, long way to go, and the progress hasn't been there entering his second season that I would have hoped for

since he came to the NBA. And they really needed that to be a piece. They just did. They needed that to be a hit. And obviously, they need Knox to be a hit. And there is absolutely no way to make any kind of. kind of decision on what Knox is going to be yet. It's all fast for him, I think, right now. One of the youngest players in the drafts, just turned 19 in August. Yeah, he's still really counting

on his athleticism is what I gathered, and that he just needs to figure it all out. That's the difference, right? When you talk about Knox, it's like, hey, he was able to be so much athletically superior to his opponents for so long, and he's still kind of using that, and that's not working, and he'll figure it out, right? How to play. within the NBA context, even in Summer League, you saw him athletically dominant, like a steamroller. Whereas on the Nilakina side, it was not like, hey, here's what he's got going and he'll just figure it out. So they needed the Frankie one to be a hit, but it doesn't, I don't know. Well, I guess we'll see.

We'll let that thing play out. Listen, on a given night, Hardaway can go for big numbers and Canther can go for big numbers. I mean, I watch Canther grab 26 friggin rebounds in a game. You know, listen, the East, once you get... past what, Boston, right now in the standings. The rest of those teams, they stink. They do. I don't know who's going to get seven and eight.

Right now, it's Charlotte and Orlando. I like the Charlotte team. But, I mean, you're talking Brooklyn, the heat, the Knicks, the Bulls, the Cavs, the Hawks. I mean, all you would need is a frigging three-game win streak. It might be in the mix. But you think the Knicks should just lose a thousand games anyway, huh? Yeah. I mean, you have experienced what it's,

feels like to get a young stud on your roster and Jaron Jackson. Then they need another one of those, the New York Knicks too. You've got to nail the pick. Yeah, got to nail the pick. Isn't it nice when you have a high pick, Chris, and you have an opportunity to draft a guy that can make an impact like that? Like Jaron Jackson Jr., isn't it great? It's nice when you nail it.

I don't care about the pick. I only care about results. I don't care about the pick. I don't. Yeah. I don't care where you're drafted if you're awesome. The Gasol and Conley injuries last year were a blessing in disguise, except they really weren't at the skies.

It was pretty obvious from the jump, Chris. You get the opportunity to get a high pick. Yeah, once Mike Conley went out, the season was awash. That's for sure. Jared Jackson's been unbelievable, hasn't he? Jared Jackson is unbelievable. He is the first guy that I've thought ever wore a Grizz's uniform that could possibly be a superstar, like a superstar.

Like I think one of the best players in the entire NBA. Like a top 10 guy. Yes, he is an amazing. You're talking about at his age, And what he's doing at that age, and he is great on both ends. You're talking 20 games. He hadn't even figured it all out yet. The other thing is I was watching, I was at the Knicks game the other night?

Like, what the hell was Tom Izzo doing? I'm watching this game. He's got like seven blocks on the game. I'm like, for God's sakes, in college, there's no defensive three seconds. If you just put that condor in front of the basket, you've never score ever. If he didn't have to move. He's just unbelievable. He did block a lot of shots.

He just couldn't stay in the floor because he fouled so much. No, he should have dominated college basketball. And he wasn't even getting to play sometimes. Yeah, he fouled a lot. Izzo screwed that up. He just did. He played older guys. He hasn't had a lot of experience with one and done.

That's always the frustrating thing with Tom Izzo. He played two bigs last season. Yeah, he hasn't had experience with one and duns. There's only been a few over the course of his whole life. It was Zibo, Deontay, Diante, D'Sau. Davis and Jaron Jackson, and I've covered all of them. Yeah, Tom Azzo should have played Jackson for more, and he should have played him at the five more often. Absolutely.

I mean, Jackson was underutilized in that sense. Jackson could also help this cause, not following three times. Listen, just 20 minutes per game. Their numbers with, I went and looked at, their numbers with Jackson at the five and Bridges at the four were like, they would have won the damn national title. What? Look, it's not like you and I know more than like the college basketball coaches, but it just blows my mind. how some of these things that work so effectively in the NBA, you would think that they would use in college basketball more.

But we so very rarely saw that with what should have been an obvious front court combination with Jackson, like you said, at the 5, and Bridges at the 4. Seems like that should be something they should do all the time, as much as possible. And then playing two bigs would be the secondary choice. Instead, playing two bigs with your primary, and Jackson at the 5 just didn't happen nearly enough. Disappointing. Yeah. You got upperclassmen.

You got guys that have been around there. blah, blah, whatever. I get it. No, listen. He was wrong. He was living in folly and error, as my preacher used to say. Quarter season awards. We talked about how great this rookie class has been so far.

Let's start with this. We're 20 games, roughly, for most of these teams, into the season. So quarter season's awards. The season ended today, and we had to give the award. The rookie of the year. Luca, right? I mean, I think it's probably going to be Luca. No doubt about it.

Oh, by the way, shout out to Isaac, our producer. Yeah. good grief you're a great why the hell do you produce podcast when you could sing like that? I like producing podcast This is my job. Are you in a band?

No, no, no. Raynor band! Have you ever been in a band? Yeah, so, I mean, I used to work as a songwriter and it's a producer before I did this job. For who?

Just freelancing. You freelanced as a songwriter and a producer, but you yourself, were you like in choirs and stuff in high school or a band in high school or something? I sang for church

But that's about it. Church singer. You're like, what's her name? Jennifer Hudson. You're the male Jennifer Hudson. You can compare me to Jennifer Hudson. It's a big compliment. You can really sing, man.

I like the Lucas song. That is not, listen, anybody that can play guitar or play anything, that is a hard song to sing really well. It is, especially when you got different lyrics. But it sounds good to me. I mean, the hardest part was not laughing because the lyrics are so funny. Shout out to Jason Gallagher. who wrote him.

It's unbelievable. Really, really funny lyrics. All right. So we got Luca right now. That's who you would have as the rookie of the year thus far. I agree with you. Oh, I mean, who else would it be? Luca does it all right now, man.

Don't make me do it. Don't make me do it. I know. I know. I know. I know. But right now, Luca at 19 years old, dropping 19 points, seven rebounds, four assists. And you watch him, and it's like, huh, he can do more.

I still think he can do more as a playmaker if you put the ball in his hands even more often. He can score from all levels of the floor. One of my favorite plays of the year so far, Chris, was that move when he I think he drove baseline and he pumped fake twice to get Rudy Gobert jumping out of his shoes and he laid the ball up.

Lucas had those moments already, and his step back three is already becoming a trademark shot for him. It's been really special watching him shine so early. Well, and you know this. The other thing that I like is he has contributed to winning, right? It's one thing to put up numbers in a losing

context, it's another to put up numbers in a winning contest. And they've won two in a row. They're seven and three in their last 10. Been much better since they've gotten healthy. They're 8 and 2 on their home floor. And they're 500 team right now. I mean, hell, the Mavericks have the same record as the Spurs and the Kings. And they're right there on the outside looking in.

I mean, they're at least in the hunt, possibly for an 8th. He threw 20 games into the season. And so I do think that he deserves that. But he may have some competition there at the end. And by the way, for all the people out there, sure did cool down on the Trey Young shit talking to me. I like that. I hadn't heard anybody talking to me about Trey Young in a while.

Colin Sexton's been really good. Say what? I tell him to stick with me. I tell him, Kev. Trey Young's shooting like a quarter of a percent for the last three weeks from three. But either way, whether it's on the positive side or the negative side, this happens every season. And then this goes for everybody, including

me and you is like, let's just chill out with rookies and not overreact too early. With Colin Sexton, it was too much criticism early on. Trey Young, maybe it was a little bit too much praise. But both of those guys, I still think Trey Young has shown the positive aspects of his game with his playmaking. Colin Sexton has shown how he can be a dynamic score. There's going to be struggles. There's going to be highlights along the way for both these guys the rest of the season. It's going to take them into year three, four, five to really become guys that we understand.

understand who they are or it could take even longer like it does with Kembo Walker. The ones at the very top, you're talking, Aiton, Bagley, Jackson, Donch. It's like everybody's excited about their rookie, right? Whatever teams' fans are talking about. For the most part, they're very happy about their rookie. But I want to mention one that's a lower down the totem pole, and I feel like should be highlighted through the first 20 games. I think I know who it's going to be.

This kid for Oklahoma City, Diallo. Ah, no, that was, okay, I was expecting somebody else. And this guy is a 45th pick in the draft, 45th, and had a very marginal, like, whatever career at Kentucky. Sometimes guys are better suited for the NBA game. Kids a hell of an athlete, big-time defender. He is contributing to winning for them. And I'll be damned like Oklahoma City, they have done this in the past where they have been very smart with the players that they have picked. I mean, hell, they built their franchise by nailing the picks that they've.

had. The Durant one was easy, but the Westbrook one wasn't, and the Abaka one wasn't, and the Stephen Adams one wasn't. Those weren't all the conventional wisdom at the time that they made those picks. And I feel like they might have gotten another real steel here with the Allo. Now, the pick was made by Brooklyn. Was that a draft night trade? Yeah. How they got him? It was. It was. It was. It was. There's a draft night deal. But listen, I didn't think all that much of the kid going into the pros, but he had been dynamite for them. so far. And in fact, the other night, when they were without him, people were talking about, damn, I hope we get Diallo back.

Especially with Roberson out for that team. Diallo's been so important to them. Last year at Kentucky, Diallo showed what he can be on the defensive end of the floor, right? I think his versatility and length and size and strength and rebounding, all of that is already manifested for him on the defensive end of the floor. Really, going back to high school, the reason why he wasn't quite a top 10 guy, I believe he was 11th or 12th high school ranked prospect, but what held him back was his offense. And still, in the NBA, that's going to be the question that determines his upside.

But at least he's been hitting spot-up threes at a competent level, around 33% from three. It's not good, obviously, but it's not horrible. It's not Andre Robertson level where you just don't defend him. He overall has just been really impressive, absolutely a steal. And think about these late ones that we've already talked about Mitchell Robinson already today, got a shout out. Trier got a shout out. Also, we mentioned Landry Shammit, Gary Clark. I mean, these are guys that are already contributing so far this year.

And some of them contributing towards real winning so far. Who did you think I was going to mention when I shouted out Diallo? Oh, I thought I was going to be Isaac Clippers, Sheigilgus Alexander, non-top guy. Oh, yeah. Smooth, too. And when I talked to Kentucky fans that loved Kentucky, you know, Gilges Alexander was generally projected until the very end higher than Knox. And all the Kentucky fans I talked to

thought that was insane. And obviously Knox ended up going before him. But the early returns on Gilgis Alexander, everybody I talked to within the league really thinks he can be something and possibly really special. Six-six point guard. I mean, for goodness sakes,

they might have nailed that. The clippers, it feels like they nailed that. I mean, that's, again, the early returns and this stuff will all bear itself out. All right, MVP. I would say my initial reaction was Kauai because they're 17 and 4. I'm actually going to see them in person tonight, Toronto. I have not seen them in person.

I've only seen them on television, but I'm going to get to see them tonight. Listen, he's averaging 25, 8.5 rebounds, 3 assists for a team that's 1,81% of its games and has a plus 9 point differential. So he obviously is still a great defender. So Kauai and Mbid were the first ones that came to mind. The West is just so jumbled up when you're talking about the top 14. record-wise right now being the Clippers, the Warriors, the Nuggets, and the Grizzlies, you know, they're 20 games, MVP. You said Kauai and Nemean, what about Yannis?

Yeah, he went in there in second, right? Yeah, I think Yonis and the Dacupo would be my selection right now. But yeah, the other means you mentioned are right up there, but I just think Yonis's two-way contributions, how much of the offense that is funneled through him, granted he's not shooting the ball well, everything else has been at an elite level for him. Zach Cram had an article in the ringer today about how Janus is the new king of scoring inside the paint. He has

just been remarkable. I love the way Mike Budenhouser has used him in different roles as a ball handler as a role man in the pick and roll. His playmaking has been better this season. Janice's defense also, you know, has been outstanding. Again, versatility,

blocking shots, rebounding the ball at a high level. His ability just to turn defense into offense, I think, has really helped Milwaukee out. Over all, I think Janus is the MVP so far. And Kauai has also missed some games, too, so he's going to get knocked for that. I would have absolutely no problem with that.

I'm a huge Janus fan. I'll also tell you that when I watch them, and this is a credit to him. I'm not blaming NBA referees. This is a credit to him. He is such a freak of nature, and he has those Euro steps, and these slip thurs and all these different moves that he does in order to get to the basket.

He gets away with so many travels. He really does. Yes, he does. Watch the games. I'm telling you, the kid gets away. way with travels all the time. He does. But you can't tell because he can take one dribble and two steps and get to the basket. But he moves his pivot feet a lot. Trust me on this. Just watch. What needs to happen the rest of the season for Curry, Durant, or LeBron to win MVP?

I think everybody's going to want new blood. I mean, it's usually the way it works. People want new blood. There's going to be enough resent for the Warriors and they're not going to win a million games. So they will not exceed your expectations. They're in an impossible spot. But before Curry got hurt, he was 30 points per game, almost 50% from 3, he was unbelievable. And then now the narrative is, oh, they're worse without him.

If he comes back and if they go on this just amazing run, I think... Oh, I'd have no problem. I think that could happen. Or if the Lakers go on a run as well and LeBron James continues putting up big numbers. I just think you're always up against it when you can split votes and when people are going to say, dude, you're still

awesome, right, without him. Right? When we're talking about most valuable. If you look at the bucks, you go, they ain't went to shit without Yannis. Right? You look at the warriors. They're like, oh, boy, they've struggled. They're in second frigging place.

I know me. I know, yeah. Like, it hurts your individual value when the discussion becomes, if I took them off that team, what would they be? Yeah, I don't see Curry or Durant winning a VP. I think LeBron could have a chance. I think when you factor in standings, that's going to matter in the eyes of the voters.

Toronto, Milwaukee, Philadelphia, right up top and the standings in the east. The Lakers could end up being a sixth seed. That would work against LeBron. Speaking of that, I think I'd give Boodintholzer coach of the year. Me too. So far?

Me too. You know who else deserves consideration? And how hilarious would this be? Listen, Nick Nurse gets hurt because Casey won it and they won a million games last year. But how about Dwayne Casey? I mean, seriously, if they stay winning, if they're a playoff team

I mean you're talking they've only played 17 games where a lot of teams have played 20 but if we look up at the halfway point then Detroit's still at like you know a top six seed in the Eastern Conference I mean you at least have to look at him right in terms of exceeding

expectation yeah I think Dwayne Casey with the way he's overhauled that system in Detroit is one guy you could also look out West another coach that's been around a while Doc Rivers with the clippers probably the most surprised team in the NBA so far in my eyes, the Clippers?

Really? Oh, come on. We're going to do this? I mean, just because I say the Clippers are the most surprising, doesn't mean that the Grizzlies aren't surprising. And by the way, we talked before the year about how having Mike Conley back, having MarkaSoul back, they're going to be better than people think they are.

Oh, good, great. You wanted to blow it up. You wanted to blow it up. I wanted to blow it up years ago when those guys had value. When they had value, Marcus Saul's number one in the friggin' NBA and real plus minus, you dick. kid. They had value.

What do you want? They're literally the most valuable player in the NBA. I'm talking. How dare you? You know what I'm saying. You know what I'm saying when Gusshole wasn't 33.

Oh God. Yeah, I know he's out there with a walker. Speaking of most surprising, you know what? I got no problem with your Clipper thing. I don't. Of course not.

Cope is there another team that I want. wanted them to do a targeted detonation, which they did with Blake Griffin. All right. So Clippers, if we go more surprising, most disappointing team so far,

are you going with the Celtics? Or are you going with the Rockets? Or you're going with the Jazz? Yeah, Utah. I think it's them. Really? More so than the Rockets and the Celtics. Yeah.

I think because there's a feeling, don't you feel like if we looked up and the Celtics or the Rockets won 10 games in a row, it wouldn't be shocking to us? It wouldn't be at all. But at this point, it would be shocking to me if Utah 1 10 in a row.

That exact reasoning is why they're most disappointed me. You wouldn't be shocked with Boston or Houston, but I kind of would be with Utah. Yeah, something's a miss so far. And being 2 and 6 at home, as we mentioned earlier, is probably the most surprising of all the things to me. It's funny, the opposite side of it. Like with Boston, their defense has been great, but it just doesn't feel like they haven't had that same grit on defense. They've allowed a lot of high-scoring games.

their pick and roll has gotten eaten up. Utah, we already talked about their struggles. Houston has just been horrific on defense. And the other side of it with the Clippers, like every guy up and down that roster is just like a badass on the defensive end of the floor. Every guy is killing it on that team. They just have a lot of good players.

Tobias Harris. Gallinari's had to come back season. Shegildas and Alexander, one of the more impressive rookies. Montre is Harold. Outstanding coming off the bench for that team. There's a lot of hard-nosed players on that Clippers team who know how to play basketball, that attitude could help out a team like Houston.

That attitude could help out Utah. Granted, they have it. They just haven't performed at that level. Well, and the other thing we've got to give them credit for is Williams has been a total closer. You just give them the ball and he wins your games at the end of these games. Seriously. Having guys like that's nice.

Tobias Harris, to me, though, is the one having a career season, only 26 years old, going to be an upcoming free agent. It's like we talked about Kemper Walker. He's another one of those guys where he's improved every single season of his career, every season. Now with the Clippers, he's having his career best year. He's putting opportunities to succeed. He's coming through. It's enough Clipper talk for me.

I have to hear from him from Isaac all time. And Isaac texts you like every night about the Clefers. It's like best team in the West, baby. It is weird because I watched them and like they don't, for so many years, they had such hateable characters. seriously. This team is so lovable. I know. They're so likable. That team that Chris Paul, Blake Griffin, DeAndre, that team was just infinitely

unlikable. They didn't even like each other. Yeah, right. They didn't even like each other, so how the hell am I supposed to like them? Whereas this team, you look up and down and you go, who do you hate of those guys? They're all guys that you like.

If they're on your team, even down to like Mike Scott, you're like, damn, I'd like that Mike Scott. Seriously. I know. Yeah, Ty Wallace, Boban, right? Listen,

I was a certain, he's gotten buried, but I was a Thornwell fan. I loved him in college. They just have a lot of good players. No, like, even the very end of their bench,

I'm like, damn, I kind of like it. You know what? It is this, and we've talked about it. Maybe there is a level of market inefficiency

in just having players that don't suck. You know what I mean? How many guys on your team? It's simple, but it's true. don't suck. Like the guy,

like how many times do you look out on the court and you go, that guy sucks. Like, you know what I mean? You never felt that way with the Spurs.

You watched the Spurs for 10 years. It didn't even matter who they brought in. Most of the time you were like, who the hell is that guy? Right? Why is this guy bombing three? Who is Davis birthday?

And why is he bombing threes? Like they bring in guys or Jonathan Simmons. Be like, who is this guy? Because they weren't even like big college guys or anything like that or maybe they were from overseas.

But you never watched their game. and go, God, that guy sucks. Whereas there's a lot of teams that start guys that I say that about. Clippers are fun. Clippers are fun. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. I'm glad you had a good Thanksgiving. You too, Chris.

This is a good time. Everybody out there, if you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. Thanks for listening, and we'll talk to you next week. Hey, guys, how's it going? I'm Annie Finberg. What up? Vince Carter.

It was good. Kent Baysmore. And this is The Wingin' It Podcast, part of of the Ringer Podcast Network. We are so excited to be here. We're going to be bringing you guys NBA news, but not just that life of NBA players. A lot of funny. Right.

You going to laugh. On a scale for one to ten, how excited are you? I'm like literally off the charts. I'm up there actually. Are you really? I'm glad you're excited. This is pretty cool. This is going to be a podcast we got going on all season long.

We're going to have a lot of really cool guests coming along. Former MVP's, All-Stars, regular guys. Not-so-regular guys. What else are they going to hear from us? Shoot, man. Anything and everything. We're going to wing it. It's all over the place, man.

I think we don't want to be the typical. We think we all, you know, be on that. We're not going to be the typical. We're not going to just talk about basketball. We're going to talk a little bit about a little bit about everything. We talk about some golf, a lot of golf. 30% will be golf. No.

We have our first episode coming out later in November, so don't forget to subscribe. Rate us five stars on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast, and we can't wait to talk to you guys. Thanks for listening. You're going to enjoy it. I promise. Yeah, it's going to be awesome.