The Ringer NBA Show - Carmelo Anthony to the Blazers, Kristaps Porzingis Returns to the Garden, and Andrew Wiggins ... Superstar? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: November 15, 2019

We discuss last night’s breaking news that Carmelo Anthony will be joining the struggling Portland Trail Blazers (1:20), before analyzing the Knicks' revenge win over Kristaps Porzingis and the Dallas Mavericks (15:18) and Andrew Wiggins’s 11-game tear to start the season (43:43). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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A little help, hands free. Just say, hey Google, to get started. Welcome to the Ringer. NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Friday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K. Kevin O'Connor, A.K.K.A. Kevin O'Conflict. Kevin O'Cliber. Kevin O'Kerno. Werner, that was a long one. What's going on? Carmelo Anthony is what's going on, Kevin. I don't know if you have heard, but the long wait is over. Carmelo Anthony is going to be in an NBA uniform.

very soon he is playing for the Portland Trailblazers who signed him with the blessing of Damian Lillard evidently. When the news came down, your instant reaction was laughter. It was laughter not like in a mocking fashion. It was laughter in the sense that it's like this is what it's come to for Portland. We talked about it recently. This is a team

that has been relying on Mario, his own in the fourth quarter of basketball games. And the Portland Trailwaysers are a team that entered the season with title hopes. And right now, in the Western Conference, they are not in the postseason. In fact, they are two and a half games back from the eighth spot. So for Portland, this is a smart, desperate decision. Like, this is what you had to do. They had to find a guy that can provide some semblance of upside at that spot.

so even though Carmelo stunk the last time we saw him and he stunk the last time we saw him he at least is somebody that maybe maybe things click for him now maybe he shoots the ball better than he did in Houston as a spot up three point shooter maybe he actually puts in some effort on the defensive end of the floor and is at least average on that end but they needed somebody who can be an upgrade over Mario hisonia and Anthony Tolliver and that's a lot of low, low bar. But with Mello, hopefully he buys in and we see some type of Dwight Howard come back from him. But I'm not sold that it will work out, but it's worth a try for Portland. Okay. So we had this argument a year ago or a little longer than a year ago regarding the Houston

Rockets. I still think it was worth it for what it's worth. I still think that was worth it. Well, that's unbelievable knowing the result that you still think it was worth it. But nevertheless, I hated it when they did it because that was a fantastic. team that I thought made themselves worse. And it is not just the last time, Kevin. It is the last two times. He was terrible in Houston and he wasn't any good in Oklahoma City either. You know, they added him to a team that had Russell Westbrook and Paul George, for God's sakes, and they weren't any good. And I, he has actively made teams worse. And a lot of that is, you know, we live in a world where Carmelow's offensive exploits, which he is still,

a good enough offensive player. He has been a... He wasn't in Houston and Oklahoma City. He's better than Mario has owned you. Again, the bar is very low here. Yeah, okay. The bar is very low here in terms of can he help you be better

offensively. The problem is he might be a worse defender than even the worst guy that you're putting out there. Like, I know, I know. He is slow afoot. And in this day and age, he gets targeted. He might as well be running around with a huge red X on him.

I want to see a Portland lineup with Dame, C.J. Simons, Mello, and White Side. That could be like an all-time bad defensive lineup and still be pretty good offensively. But they're going to give up a lot of points. Here's the problem. You know, everybody makes 100 million contingents. sees on whether Carmelo Anthony can help you. And let me just, let me, let me extrapolate this to what you were saying with

Dwight Howard, right? Okay. So the reason Dwight Howard is working is because so far, and again, we'll see it play out. The reason it is working is why he is on a good team. He is a role player for a good team. The problem here is I would have thought, and let's say all the contingencies play out. He's willing to play a role.

He's willing to come off the bench. He's willing to be this new place, new NBA, right? And now he has been humbled. And so all of a sudden he knows he's not an all-star caliber player, but he's going to fit right in, something that some stars have been able to do and extend their career and a long time. Like Vince Carter.

Vince Carter, someone like that, yeah. Jason Kidd. He wasn't the man for the last parts of his years, but he certainly was a key component to them winning a title once upon a time. And there was a bunch of the guys like that. Even Shaw Marion. Shaw Marion's numbers were not the same when he was playing with Dallas as when he was in his heyday with Phoenix. But we have seen guys that have been able to do it like the aforementioned Vince Carter.

We have seen Grant Hill. And I know he was slowed by injuries. But he also turned into a role player. And we have seen those, and we're seeing it with Dwight Howard, to his credit. And then on the flip side, we have seen the Iverson situations where it can never get right. And that he's just not going to be comfortable, not being a star level player. The problem here is, I think you have a lot better chance of all those contingencies being true if Carmelo Anthony were to join a really good team rather than him,

joining a team that is desperate and, you know, is is waving a flag saying, we really need you. Like, if we really need you, then what they're going to get is the full Carmelo. And I say all that, he didn't exactly fit into a role in Oklahoma City, and he didn't really fit into a role with the Rockets. And those were both, you know, playoff caliber teams for sure. So I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

But I just think that on this trip back, you know, to accept. extend the career, there is a lesson of Dwight Howard right now. Dwight Howard ain't out there taking 15, 20 shots. And Dwight Howard is just fitting in, you know, and knows kind of his place within that team and where he should be in the pecking order on that team. That's harder. I think with Carmelo, especially when they got two guys there that are doing it in Portland, right?

And they need a third. And this is where they went to get the third. And I don't know if that's the right thing. I see what you mean, Chris, and I'm with you. Like, he does need to be that quote unquote third guy for them. But it's not that he didn't buy into his role in Houston. And that's where some of my concern is for them. I mean, with the Houston Rockets last season, he did start taking fewer mid-range shots.

Only 31% of his shot attempts came for mid-range, according to cleaning the glass.com, whereas over half, 51% of his shots came from three. The problem is, is in that spot-up shooting role, he shot the ball like garbage. He shot only 31% on 51 three-point attempts off the catch last season with Houston. In the past five years before that, he shot 40% in his years with OKC in New York. So he was a high-level catch-and-shoot three-point shooter in the past. But last season, he didn't do one of the things that was key for him, and that was shooting the ball. in addition, like he's stunk on defense, like we said,

and that's something he's never been good at. It's something that it's hard to believe that right now, at his age 35, that he would be suddenly be good at now. But if he's at least able to be average on defense by just putting all his energy into that and spot up shooting, maybe he can help this team that needs it. But I'm after the last two years with O KC in Houston, I'm not optimistic.

I'm rooting for it to work, though. Yeah, this just feels like a real Hail Mary only 12 games into the season. It is. That's what I'd say. And you and I talked about how they could logically improve this team. They do have some pieces that they could move. And, you know, I don't know. Is this, I get that it's a free roll and you're already four and eight.

But you're four and eight. You're not four and 15. You know? Like you're a four-game win streak away. from being right back in this mix. And I get that it hasn't gone well so far. But if it does somehow make you worse, you know, then I don't know. I mean, it just feels like a hellmery when it's not going to make you worse.

It doesn't make you worse. I don't know. It doesn't make you worse. I'm not sure. Their defense already stinks and they're adding a bad defender. Their offense, they can score. You know, they haven't done as well. this year, but you know you've got two guys.

That third guy you are adding is certainly for, I mean, that's an, the best way you could put it is it's an offensive edition. It is not a defensive edition by any means. He is too slow-footed to guard threes, and now we're going to see, you know, the league changed a lot for Carmelo Anthony. It really did. And now he becomes a guy that is sought out.

You know, it's like, and we saw guys like this where they just didn't adapt to how the league changed and became absolutely. You got to remember, it's not that long ago now. One of the huge free agents was Greg Monroe. Think about that. And who want, you know what I mean? Like, he was unplayable. He was unplayable. Put it this way.

This can't be it for Portland. We talked about this in a prior podcast. Neil L. Shea can't sit on his hands now thinking Carmelo Anthony is going to solve everything for this team. He can't think Yusuf Nurkich is going to come back and miraculously solve everything. There needs to be something else coming from this team at some point this season, if they want any shot of making serious noise in the postseason and having a real shot of winning the title, they need to find one other guy, whether that's Gowanari, whether that's Kevin Love, or whether that's a Blake Griffin or Aaron Gordon, whoever it is at that four position, they got to find a guy there.

And maybe Mello's part of the equation in the playoffs. Maybe he's not. But I think at some point, you got to trade either Baysmore or Whiteside with future draft pick assets and add another guy and try to maximize this window that you have. There's an opportunity here with Damian Lillard playing at an MVP level right now with C.J. McCollum doing what he always,

always has and Anthony Simons ascending into like a very nice role player already and maybe something more in the future. Olshey needs to maximize this window at some point in the season and Mello is not enough. He's a placeholder. They need to find somebody else later at some point in the season. Yeah. They are to what I was saying earlier and again, not efficiency wise, but points per game wise. They are giving up. I mean, they are middle of the, they're 12th, I think,

in points per game in the NBA. They are ninth in most points given up. So, I mean, this has been a, you know, their defense has certainly been a lot worse than their offense has been so far this year.

And you're adding Carmelo Anthony. I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know if I buy it, won't make them worse. All right. Enough mellow. Enough mellow.

Yeah. Well, hey, He is a, I mean, this guy was a star for a long, long time in the NBA. And it has been weird that there, I mean, there is a reason nobody has signed him. This could be it. This could be it. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it. Do you want to remind everybody today's show also brought to you by Luminary.

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at Luminary.com slash Ringer NBA. After that, it's only $7.99 per month. That's Luminary.com slash ringer NBA for two months of free access. Luminary.com slash ringer NBA. Cancel any time, terms apply. All right, last night, real heroes welcome for Christaps Porzingis in New York. That was something else, man. They did not, they didn't let me down.

I expected raucous booze, and my God, we got them. I hope I had seven three from a fan point of view inspiring to see just the entire arena rally around that. I mean, like it was all their pent up frustrations from the past two plus decades directed at one man who, you know,

Chris Saps wanted to leave just like a lot of Knicks fans are pissed off. So in some ways, like they can understand each other. But not last night. What was funnier than, you know, we just had, you know, a week, this week, the guys, or over the weekend, the guys come out, Mills and Perry come out and say, you know, we're not where we want to be and this is not what we expected and yada, yada, yada.

And then you're watching them in a big game last night on national television that everybody's watching. And you suddenly realize that the down the stretch, the big shots are being made by Marcus Morris. And their leading shot taker is Marcus Morris. and he got it done last night. I mean, to his credit, he got it done last night,

but I do think there is, there is that moment where you go, I mean, when Marcus Morris is your leading score, how good did you expect to be? You know? And obviously, maybe they overshot a little bit, but 106 to 103, they end up winning that game.

And on the other side, you have another triple double from Luca Donchitz with 33, 10 rebounds, 11 assists, go along with three steals. I mean, the level he has been at so far this season has just been absolutely absurd.

I mean, that was an awesome game, period. It was a lot of fun to watch, especially that fourth quarter when it's close down the stretch. Frank Nilakina, my guy playing a very, very good defense on Luca, had a big play fighting for a loose ball, and he hit two clutch free throws.

Frank was great. also came down and almost broke the rim. It's all right. On a big shot in crunch time. It's okay. It's okay. I know a very good 18 minutes on the court for the New York Knicks. With New York, it's probably all downhill from from here.

This was their Super Bowl. They beat Chris Stavis twice, which is honestly kind of embarrassing for KP. But what a win for the Knicks to beat the Mavericks twice. And then on the Dallas side, the Mavericks have a top offense in the league. And Rick Carlisle has been an awesome coach for for many, many years.

So I feel like it's a little bit misplaced to even say this. And yet, I feel like it's something that a lot of Mavericks fans would agree on. And that's why are the Dallas Mavericks wasting so many possessions on Chris Stapp's poor Zingas postups? With about 90 seconds left, KP has a poor defensive possession where he flops against Marcus Morris, who lays the ball up easily.

Then on the other end of the floor, he goes right into the post and they feed him and he takes this weak-ass little turnaround jumper and for KP this season he has been horrific in the post shooting only 8 of 26 on post-ups according to Synergy Sports and yet they are feeding him a lot and I think for Dallas there's logic to that because we talked about this before the season

I put it in my feature on the Mavericks the upside of this team is their ability to just destroy Mitch mismatches. When you're switching on defense against a Luca Donchich, Chrisaps, Porzing his pick and roll, there's opportunities for you to have KP on a smaller guy, a Luca on a slower guy. And they can expose those mismatches to an extent. But KP cannot yet beat those post mismatches. He can't beat anybody on the post with consistency. And I think for the Mavericks, it's at a point where I think they need to just give it up a little bit right now, especially at points in the game like last night with 90 seconds left.

It's as if they were trying to create a moment for Porzingis instead of doing what works. And for KP at his size at 7 foot 3, he is a weapon from beyond the line. He is somebody you can run off screens off of handoffs or simply having him spot up creates a more expected points per possession for the Dallas Mavericks. I would be willing to bet the numbers would show that from second spectrum tracking data or whatever teams have proprietary behind the scenes. I would be willing to bet that. And Dallas doesn't do that as much as I don't think they can.

Despite how potent they are, I think they can be even better on the offensive end just by tweaking their utilization of Chris Stabs. Interesting. You know, like there's two guys that you really worry about, especially down the stretch. And Luca last night, I mean, not getting the ball in bounds to even get that last shot up to possibly tie it was a perfect ending to what was very sloppy basketball from the Mavericks down the stretch.

But you're right, that was the Super Bowl for the Knicks last night. And they ended up being able to come away with the win. Let's talk about some other teams and some stuff that's gone around the league since we last spoke. how much are you believing in this Boston 8 and 1 start? I'm buying. I'm buying that Boston is far better than we expected. I think when you look at this roster, Chris, before the season, you wanted to see a couple of things.

You wanted to see. By the way, forgive me. They lost their first game. They are nine and one. So they have won. They lost opening night. They have won nine straight games since then. you wanted to see Jason Tatum make progress.

You wanted to see Jalen Brown make progress. You wanted to see Gordon Hayward look like Gordon Hayward. And all three of those things have happened. Obviously, Hayward's out right now with the broken hand. But Tatum and Brown have been terrific. Jalen especially, he looks like a new and improved player, changing speeds, manipulating defenders off the dribble. And Tatum has just been sensational.

He has been one of the better wing defenders in the game this season. After being pretty good last year in his second season, he's taking smarter, better shots on the court, less early mid-range, more threes, more at-rim. And the results have been mixed, but it's progress. And I think with those two playing the way they have, and Hayward being back to himself, on top of the fact that Kemba Walker,

it's hard to assess from our couches and from our seats, but you can tell. You can tell. Chemistry's better on this team. And a lot of that has to do with Kempa and the enthusiasm and love that he plays the game with. And he's playing on selfish basketball. He's playing with his teammates, giving the ball up to them, letting them do what they need

to do rather than pounding the air out of the ball like we saw oftentimes from Kari Irving. But when he needs to do that, he can. So Boston's getting everything they needed from their variables, Brown, Tatum, and Hayward. Kamba's being Kamba. In the big man position has not been nearly as bad as a lot of people would have expected. Cantor missed some time, but he's still scoring in the matchups that he needs to.

Robert Williams, the Time Ward has been really, really, really good for them. And Daniel Tice is probably the position that they can upgrade as that floor spacing versatile defender, but he's been solid enough for them. So this Boston team, I think they're one piece away from being a real championship contender. but they've certainly closed the gap in my eyes with both Milwaukee and Philadelphia in the Eastern Conference. How much of this is an indictment of Kyrie Irving? I'm serious.

I'm serious. I'm serious. I think you can put last season on a lot of people. I think for one thing, you can't put it all on Kyrie. Well, here's what I know. Let me just say this, though. Boston last year was such a unique environment. They came off, they came off a game.

seven a game seven against lebron james without kairy and without hayward and then you bring those guys back and one of them hayward stinks and yet he's getting a lot of opportunities and the other one kairie is just you know going off the rails and it created an environment where a lot of guys weren't happy and that goes down to some of the role players like a terry rosier it goes down to these younger guys Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum who are wanting more opportunity after leading their team to a game seven. So some of that's on Kyrie. Some of that's on Brad Stevens, in my opinion, for feeding the ball too much to Hayward too soon. And someone that's just out of everybody's control. It just was what it was last year for that team. And a lot of that's on Kyrie, but not all of it.

Well, I know Boston's a lot better and Brooklyn's a lot worse. That's what I know. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I know it's, you're right. And with Kyrie, There's also a pretty good clip I saw tweeted out of him pushing one of his teammates pretty aggressively into position, into position on the court during live game action. All right. So you believe in what's happened with Boston and you do think that they are now more like the elite of the Eastern Conference than they are middle of the pack Eastern Conference. I do need to make.

Undoubtedly, yeah. I need to make an apology for one of our early, early season overreaction. one of mine was about a team that has been on a win streak as of late, which it was in retrospect and overreaction. The Pacers have been playing really well, Kev. And is it, now they have played bad teams, but they have blitzed some of these bad teams. And the Sub-Bonis numbers are just getting crazy.

You know, this is a team that's never on national TV, got a soft spot for them. So Bonas is averaging 20 points and 13 rebounds a game. He is also averaging four assists. And of those 13 rebounds, four offensive rebounds a game, which is a huge number that you don't see a lot. He has been absolutely unbelievable,

all-star quality player. The Brogden signing has worked out famously. And then these other two that they had signed, you know, Lamb has finally been able to play and he's come along. they have lost Miles Turner and he's been unavailable, but T.J. Warren has turned up and is now a lot closer to the...

T.J. Warren playing best defense of his life, too, for what it's worse. A guy who has never played defense until this season is playing pretty well. It's impressive. And he's a really good, and he's a really good score. He's a good bucket getter. And so I thought that, you know, their depth was really going to hurt them. Their depth obviously got hit by Turner being out. But you look at what Sabonis has done.

done over the course of the last, I mean, geez, this run that he is on, listen to these numbers. 18 and 17, 13 and 17, 17 and 14, 21 and 16, 18 and 16. I mean, what the hell? He's grabbing, you know, 17, 17, 16, 16 boards all while scoring still. and he's also dishing it out. The other numbers on that, by the way, four assists, seven assists, six assists, seven assists,

two assists. I mean, this is like yokech stuff that Sabonis is pulling off with even better rebounding numbers because the assists are high too. I mean, it's almost as if and clearly they don't have Turner and you have said,

hey, maybe them together is not the best fit. Well, now we're seeing Subonis without Turner and it is ungodly so far. It'll be interesting once Turner returns to see how those guys coexist. But to be fair, though, it's not like Sabonis was putting up trash numbers when Turner was on the court. No, no, no, no, no. It's like he was still putting up really, really good numbers early in the season before Turner was out. I think Subonis, it's just more like these guys are falling in.

into a placement in their role, which is allowing the whole team to get into their rightful roles when they don't have to share the floor as often as they were. So I think it's more of a team-wide thing that's helping more so than just those guys hurting each other. Like Sabonis is still a good player with, with or without Turner. I think with this team, you know, you and I have talked about this before, Chris, with Malcolm Brogden being a major loss for Milwaukee. But as the season progresses, and as Malcolm Brogden continues to rack up very, very efficient playmaking games, low turnovers, high assist numbers, but also being a guy who can be relied on as a scorer.

This season, he's shooting 14 of 23 out of isolations. He's the same pick and roll wizard that he's been in the past. So in addition to be playmaking, Brogden is scoring more with the ball in his hands without having somebody else create for him. and he's doing it with pretty good efficiency. And I'm buying Brogden. I'm buying Subonis. And it's just going to be interesting to see how this team evolves when Turner returns.

But maybe it even makes them better. Well, and it also sets up. We're recording this on Friday. It sets up something to really pay attention to tonight. I will be very fascinated to see how they play against Houston because while, I don't know if it's a mirage, this four-game win streak. You know, they've been playing Oklahoma City in Orlando and Washington, which are games that, you know, you could absolutely see them winning.

Now they play against a team that is eight and two in their last 10 is on a five-game winning streak. And they're playing against, you know, a guy in Hardin who is putting up historic numbers through the first 11 games of the season. You're right? So now. So they might get buried tonight. And then it's like, oh, well, that was just a good four-game win streak against rat teams. I don't know.

Yeah, but regardless of what happens tonight, one game out of 82. I understand, but it is a much greater level of competition to judge them. You know, are they more the team that can go in and play a tough game against Houston? Are they a team that beats up on teams like the Wizards? Absolutely. No doubt. By the way, with Houston, what Hardin's doing right now, man.

I know, I know you don't like to watch this game. I know a lot of people don't like to watch this game. but this guy's just crazy, man. 38.2 points right now when he's only shooting 31.8% from three. If he were shooting the same percentage he did last season in Houston, 36%, 36.8%, he'd be averaging over 41 points per game. And I don't think it's inconceivable that at some point he regresses to the mean hair

and has a ridiculously hot shooting stretch like he did on Wednesday in his 47 point game against the LA Clippers when he shot 7 of 13 from 3. I mean, this guy just continues to get better every single season, adding more and more to his game. So it's like like it or not how it looks and how he plays within that system, there's no doubt this guy's getting better every single year. And right now we're seeing some of the best basketball we've ever seen from James Hardin and some of the best offensive basketball we've seen from any player ever. it came in a loss last night, but we saw the return of Paul George, 24 minutes, 33 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists.

I mean, that's not exactly easing back into it, is it? No, not at all. Very impressive. It looked like he did not lose anything. Looks like just one game, but the shoulder did not expect the shot, three of five from three, 10 of 10 from the three throw line,

hit a handful of other shots from mid-range. he looked like Paul George and he did it all in 24 minutes like you said Okay so at least we are now through 10 to 12 games of the season dependent upon how many your team has played the Lakers whose schedule has been easier but they have started off 9 and 2

the Clippers have started off 7 and 5 and the Clippers as we know were prohibited favorites going into the season and there was this whole like going to take L. layback. Do you, you are my boots on the ground in Los Angeles. Do you feel like the Clippers have made any traction in terms of interest around that city? I mean, it's, it's a Lakers town and it always will be. I mean, I think that that was apparent

on opening night of the season where the Clippers had a quote unquote home game, but it sure felt more like a Lakers home game. that's that's not going to change but i do think you know walking around the city uh you do see a handful more clippers shirts and clippers hats yeah i mean you do see more and i think there's more interests in the clippers uh but but it's a lakers town and i that's okay that's okay what what that's okay what matters is the product on the court and and the clippers are right there with the lakers as being a finals contenders in the west and regardless of who has more fans that's ultimately what I matters most.

Well, I will tell you this, years ago, when I was in Los Angeles and I was wearing a grizzly shirt around the day of a game, everybody that came up to me or mentioned the shirt I was wearing was like, hey, hope y'all win tonight. Hope y'all get a win.

And I'm like, wait, what? It was the weirdest thing. I have never been in an opposing city where people, like, randomly would come up to me saying they hope the grizzlies were going to win the game that they were in this. Like, so even Laker fans didn't like the Clippers, right? I mean, I mean, I had like an Uber driver who was listening to the Clippers game on the radio

after he picked me up one time. And I asked him, I was like, hey, man, are you a Clippers fan? He's like, hell no. I was like, your Lakers fan is like, a course. Oh, that's hysterical. So, yeah, similar response. And you do get that a handful. of times where people like,

of course I'm not a Clippers fan. I'm a Lakers fan. Well, I hope our old producer, Isaac Lee, is not listening to this right now. Well, and it's weird because I think we probably expected, even with schedule, that the Clippers would be the one there

towards the top, but there they are. You look at the top of the standings, and it's the Los Angeles Lakers, and then you look down to right now, at least as of today, in seventh place in the Western Conference is the Clippers. Bobby, I have a question for you. Is it like this at all in New York with either the Yankees and Mets or Jets and Giants?

You're really hitting close to home there. Yeah, it's like this with the Yankees and Mets. I feel a camaraderie, a certain camaraderie with the Clippers fans. Isaac and I have bonded over that in terms of, because I'm a big Mets fan in terms of the way that it's not actually like a Little Brother, Big Brother situation, but the Yankees and the Lakers fans think that it is. It's more of just. just like a familial passed down thing, at least. I mean, I don't want to speak for Isaac. Hold on now.

It is a big brother, little brother thing in New York. Come on, Bobby. They've won 27 titles. They're not even in the same. I mean, though. I understand, but I mean, you walk down, you were just in Times Square, Kev, walk down the street and you walk into one of those stores.

There's 600,000 Yankee things and two Mets things. You're right about that. In New York, I do think it is a little more geographical. borough-wise, which I think is maybe underrated. I can't speak to the Los Angeles aspect of that, though. I don't know if it's geographical between Lakers and Clippers. It just feels more like generational between Lakers and Clippers. Yeah, it's like, well, the Clippers were, you know, the people.

I actually felt, I liked the Clipper scene when I was there because it felt a lot more blue collar, right? Like it didn't feel, it didn't feel like everybody had plastic surgery and was dressed up the gang. That comment is sure to go over well, Verno. Yeah, I know. Come on, Chris. That's true. Felt like home in Memphis. It did. It felt like more real people were in the stands than everybody was, everybody was just, oh, God, half the time of those Laker games, they go to Lakers. They go to Lakers games so they can take the Instagram everywhere, Chris. Oh, shut up. They'd go to Lakers games so they can get the Instagram photo. Yeah. Yeah, there are. Yep, you're right. There are people to do that. Yes. I felt like the Clippers fans were there for the

As if at every other city, there's nobody taking selfies or having pictures of them off on the court. I didn't say that. I said 90% of them are there for the Instagram photo. And then there are the basketball fans. As you might say, Chris, good grief. Good grief indeed. Go check it out. It's a different crowd.

Right? And probably that has to do with the price. It's expensive as hell to go to Laker games. That is for certain. All right, Kev, we'll get right back to it. First, we want to remind everybody, today's show brought to you by Stant's socks. Do you remember when socks used to be one of the worst things you can get at Christmas? Well, times have changed because Stance has completely changed the reputation of socks.

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This NBA season, Mountain Dew is all about the threes. The shot that is changing the game. The shot that we will see if Carmelo Anthony can bury in Portland because as Kevin mentioned earlier, it did not go so well in Oklahoma City or Houston. Brought to you by Mountain Dew, the official beverage of the NBA, Do the Do.

We've talked about some of the teams that have been very hot so far. In terms of teams that are on losing streaks, we covered the San Antonio Spurs in our last podcast. There is no particular reason to talk about the Golden State Warriors and what they have been through so far. the other one is the Detroit Pistons

who have lost three in a row as well as the Brooklyn Nets. None of those teams. So there's nothing that has happened since we last spoke in terms of hot teams and cold teams that stands out all that dramatically except for, to me,

Indiana and kind of the streak they've been on. And now we get to see when they're playing against Houston, you know, what kind of what tier we should put them in because once you get past Indiana in the east Kevin everybody else has a losing record by there at least three games under 500. I think I think you're missing one though. Okay.

I think Philadelphia. They just inched by Cleveland on Tuesday night, 98, 97, a game that they should have won handedly. And then on Wednesday granted Joe L&B didn't play. They lost by 15 to the Orlando Magic. Philadelphia this year. I mean, they're seven and four. They're not bad. I talked about this with Bill Simmons on his pod.

This week, I don't feel like they are nearly as great as I thought they would be. Entering the season, I picked them to win the Eastern Conference and represent the East and the finals. They do not strike me as that team. I think right now, Milwaukee is a better team. I think Boston and Miami are right there. And oh, by the way, Toronto with Pascal Seacom continuing to put up MVP numbers may very well be just on the same exact level as Philadelphia. I think Milwaukee's the favorite now. And then you have a group of four, Boston, Miami, Toronto, Philadelphia.

And I think the Philadelphia 76ers can be better and should be better. And they're just not for like a long list of reasons. Well, Josh Richardson was always the favorite of people that watched him play two games. games a year. And they replaced him. And he's shooting 28% from three. And their other wing, Tobias Harris, is shooting 20% from three. You know, especially in this day and age, that is not going to get it done.

Yeah. And with Tobias Harris, there's been times this season where he's just flat out passing up open shots. It's been really weird to watch with this team. Oh, did you? Were you watching the end of the Cleveland game? I actually watched that game the other night. and they threw it to him at the top of the key.

There was nobody within 30 feet of him. And he drove in and got a charge. And I was actually watching with my son. I said, what the hell is he doing? Like there's nobody. He could have dribbled in five feet, 10 feet, 15 feet. And he would have found nobody. And said he drove all the way down and then just rammed over a guy.

And I'm like, what is going on with this dude? It's bizarre. And I think some of this has. to do with guys just aren't shooting well. Some of it has to do with Brett Brown. I want to see a little bit more creativity from him with this funky mix that he has. I mean, there's been too many occasions this season where L. Horford is just floating around the elbow or the baseline when he needs to be spotting up from three. A team that granted Horford's taking five threes per game, a career high for him, a high for the Sixers, which says a lot. They need Horford to always be spacing the

floor because this is a team that lacks spacing. And you're shorting yourself if you have him sometimes on the baseline or at the elbow when already Ben Simmons is hanging around there because he's too scared to stand in the corner. And then Joe L. Ambide is a shooting the ball very well at 38% right so far this season. But he's not necessarily considered a potent threat by defenses. So I don't think they're maximizing the spacing that they do have partially because players aren't shooting. They're either scared to go behind the line like Ben Simmons.

or they're just not being coached to be behind. They're like Horford all the time. You and I spoke on Tuesday. And I believe, I think probably first to speak on it a lot on a national level. And then it became a massive topic over the course of the last 48 to 72 hours. And that is Andrew Wiggins. And we brought it up on Tuesday. And one of the things you said was we have been.

fooled by this before, but there are a lot of extremely positive signs. And we have seen people say that over and over. Well, since then, since even Tuesday, when we spoke about it, it has continued. We were coming on on Monday. Well, then he turned around on Wednesday against San Antonio and in a 15-point win, shoots 52% from the field, 57% from 3, and has 30.8 rebounds and 7 assists. at what point is it no longer a mirage? This guy is like one of the best players in the league right now, Kevin.

He seriously is. Yeah, well, it's still only 11 games. Okay. But like we've seen hot stretches from Wiggins in the past. Not like this. I know, not like this. You're right. And that's what you and I touched on.

There's positive indicators here, especially the passing. The passing's the big one. He's making better. smarter, quicker decisions on the floor. And partially, I think that's from him actually developing this. That's something that I would need to look into further and talking to people around him.

But it seems like it's something that he's focused on improving this summer. But also, though, it's kind of a reflection of the symptom here. The system here, Ryan Saunders is playing five out or four out offenses nearly all the time. And that's making for easier decisions for Wiggins and other players on that team with the spacing that they have. So with Wiggins, man, like, I buy that he's better for sure because of the playmaking. That's real.

That is real that we're seeing right now from him. Whether the scoring efficiency stays the way it is, I don't know. Like, we'll find out, but I'm encouraged. Wouldn't he flip everything on its head? I mean, we have talked in the past about sometimes guys have a different timeline. And it might be four years into their career before they really, get it and turn into the player. This is six.

I know. This is six. I was trying to think if there's somebody. He's only 24. He's not like 28 right now. He's 24. I was trying to think of if there was somebody that is, that was like

six, like kind of six years into the career, because it is rare that somebody would turn into a all-star caliber player at that time. What year was it with the year? You look up Lowry. The one that popped in my head was was Billups.

Because Billups, you know, I think through, yeah, I'm going all the way through here. You're talking about, I mean, he was already on a couple of different teams. He went from Boston to Toronto to Denver to Minnesota. He landed in Detroit when he was 26 years old, 26 years old for Chaunty Billups and was coming off a year where he only started 54 games out of the 82. for Minnesota and shot 42% from the field and average less than 13 points a game. For what it's worth,

Lowry's first really, really good season was year eight and this first time becoming an All-Star was year nine at age 27 and 28 respectively. A little different because, you know, Lowry was a late first-round pick. You know,

Billups and Wiggins were both high first-round draft pick. So they're coming in with different, different expectations. But I, you know, I. Billups is a, Billups is a good one though, because it's about the same kind of it was, I mean, I guess what, by the time Billups did not become a big time guy that people paid attention to until his time in Detroit where he clearly found a great fit for him.

But by the time he went to Detroit, he was, yeah, he was 26 years old. 26, yep. Wow. Yeah. And look, I mean, development is not linear. And I think with Andrew Wiggins, it's. the type of thing where I mean, I've bashed him plenty. I know.

He was a guy who didn't play a look at defense, a guy who didn't know passing was an option. His passing button did not work. He doesn't rebound the way he should for a guy with his athleticism. And he took a lot of dumb shots. And he didn't shoot them well either. But he put up raw numbers. And I think the talent was always there, which made it so frustrating. Because, you know, you look at Wiggins as a player from his timing.

Kansas from his tie when his time in high school when he was putting up these amazing, amazing high school highlight reels compared to like the next Jordan and all that. And he's not that player. And he proved that pretty quickly that he's not that player. But he's always shown flashes, which made it so frustrating when areas of his game that seemed improvable were not improving. And maybe this is the year things are starting to click. And I hope they are because it would be, it would make for a really.

great story after the first five years in the league when he has not been good, signed the big contract and suddenly looked like an albatross from Minnesota, a detriment to Carl Anthony Towns, their superstar center. But right now, you know, it's only 11 games, but he's sure as hell looks like a perfect compliment to cat. And I hope it's real. I'm rooting for it to be real. But I do want to see more.

What a story. What a story. I mean, if he, if this is, if this is real, because, I mean, he's averaging 26 points a game, which the points per game is not the huge deal. Five rebounds, almost four assists. And you look at what he's done over the last five and ten games.

And playing harder on defense too. Well, and maybe it said he's 24. Maybe it, like you say, development's not linear. Or maybe he was super pissed off by not being put in that top 100. You remember that story? When he said there's not 100 players in the NBA better than me? when people came out with their preseason list of the top 100 players.

And he took that personal. He's like, oh, come on. There's not a hundred better players than me. And maybe he's out to prove. I mean, hell, he's been playing like a top 20 player so far this year. Maybe they really got him mad with that list. Sometimes that's what it takes, man. You never know, right?

Like, this is where I'm at that people are shitting on me so bad that they don't think I'm one of the hundred best guys in the league. Like, are you kidding me? there's only, right? There's, there's only 30 teams. So how am I not in the top 100? The thing is sustaining it. You know, with Wiggins right now, he's putting in more effort. You know, he's focusing more off ball, you know, going for some blocks and deflections off ball. On ball, he's been pretty okay. And it's nice to see that progress from him in terms of effort and focus. Now it's about sustaining that over the course of the full season. about sustaining his newly learned habits of sometimes resisting those early clock mid-range

jumpers and taking the smarter shot or making the smarter pass. Now it's about sustaining this. We're seeing what he can do. He's seeing what he can do. And now it's about building forward and making this newly learned habit into something that comes naturally to him over the course of a long, long season when fatigue builds, when maybe you lose some games and you start getting frustrated. That's what needs to happen next for Wiggins to show to us that this is real and to prove to himself that this is real too and to the coaching staff to continue empowering him. But the first 11 games are encouraging, but next step is just making sure and verifying this is real to everybody watching, including himself. Last week we had the Kimball Walker returned to Charlotte, which got emotional.

Last night, we had the Chris Taps, Porzingis returned to New York, which got emotional. I will be on the game that is on national television tonight. It's an ESPN game where Mike Conley and the Utah Jazz, he is back in Memphis for the first time. And he will get the massive heroes welcome and they'll have the, you know, they'll run the video tribute to him and whatever else. But for people that like like good moments where a player gets to come back to a city and people go absolutely crazy and cheer on that.

player like that will be the case when it comes to Conley. And it's a different situation, you know, for people out there that have, that we'll see this tonight, you know, now because of John Morant and what John Morant did, um, the other night with the game winner and everybody's so excited, it's one of those where it's like everybody's happy for Mike Conley and hopes he goes and, you know, is there in the Western finals and maybe can win a title because, you know, your own fan base is thrilled about the future that it's got and with its guy. And so sometimes when a player comes back, you end up getting a down fan base. Like, God, I wish I still had that guy or I loved rooting for that guy and things aren't any good now. This should actually be the perfect mix tonight

because you've got a fan base that's already thrilled with what's going on with them and their point guard that they've got. And then their hero comes back. And it's hard for me. And it's hard for me to express to everybody out there how much Memphis loves Mike Conley. I mean, he is a favorite son. The same way that a superstar can come back, the same way Tony Parker went and got his

jersey retired the other night at San Antonio, he is that to the city. And so he will get an ovation like you have never heard before. And it's a big game tonight on national television. People are going to watch that to see Morant anyway, right? Like, he's now become a TV

draw. It's a good point card. matchup. Conley versus Morantz. And hopefully for Conley, you know, he's had some pretty poor scoring game so far this season. He's been a bit better as of late during Utah's four game winning streak. Hopefully for the jazz, that continues into tonight. But that's absolutely going to be an emotional game. And I'm jealous you'll be there, Chris. It'll be fun. Yeah. And then that I think what is the, what is the late game that is on tonight, the other national TV game tonight? because I'm going to pay attention to, I'm going to try to keep my eye on that Pacers game

that we mentioned the Pacers won against Houston. But I think there. Tonight we get Boston Golden State. Oh, God. Yeah, I know. Oh, yeah, exactly. Here, try to guess the line on that game. Boston minus 12 and a half.

Oh, we're getting line value on the Kevin O'Connor line. It's eight. Eight. Interesting. It should be 30. Should be 30. Maybe maybe should place a bet on that.

That's a pretty good line. You want to bet on the Celtics? That's a good line right there. Any other good ones tonight? The only other ones that are tight lines are that Rockets Pacers is five and a half. Magic Spurs.

That's a three point line. I mean, look, the ones to pay attention to are that Rockets Pacers games a good one. The Grizzlies and Jazz is going to be on national TV. And then Lakers Kings is the late game, but I'd expect the Lakers to mall them. Even though the Kings have one, two in a row. Shout out to them. Kevin, have an unbelievable weekend, and I'll talk to you on Tuesday. You as well, Chris. Have a good weekend, everybody.

It's going to do it for another edition of the Ringer NBA show. Thanks for listening. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you on Tuesday.