The Ringer NBA Show - Celtics Eclipse Sixers, #LeBronto Continues, and Warriors-Rockets Is Near | Heat Check (Ep. 263)

Episode Date: May 7, 2018

The Ringer’s John Gonzalez is joined by HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons to review how the Boston Celtics built a surprising 3-0 lead over the Philadelphia 76ers (2:27). Then, Shea Serrano calls in to discuss LeBron James and the Cavaliers dominating the Toronto Raptors (30:04). Finally, Haley O’Shaughnessy and Paolo Uggetti join to react to the Golden State Warriors overwhelming the New Orleans Pelicans (49:19) and the Houston Rockets pushing ahead of the Utah Jazz (59:32). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's a heat check. You knew that was coming. It's heat check time. Welcome to the heat check podcast. I'm your host, John Gonzalez. Join us every week by the man who makes it happen. Isaac Lee. What's going on, Isaac? What's going on, man? It's summer here in Los Angeles. Finally. Yes. It's been nice here in Los Angeles. There's been a lot of basketball. We've got you covered here at the ringer. Powell had a great story on the site. Has a great story on the site about Rajan Rondo's secret milkshake. You want to check that out. That was a lot of fun. KOC's got a piece on the Raptors and whether they've hit their ceiling. I probably shouldn't do this. but I'm going to do it anyway. Spoiler, the answer is yes. We've also got all kinds of raptors and Cavs talk coming up later in the program with Shea Serrano. Palo aforementioned will be here along with Haley O'Shaughnessy to talk about

Golden State Warriors and the New Orleans Pelicans and also, of course, rockets and jazz. And then, you know, you want basketball? You want basketball podcasts? Ringer NBA show has you covered all week long, as does Bill Simmons. I should mention the boss because I was having a nice weekend, Isaac. I went to a party. It very rarely happens that I get to go out and do anything during the NBA season, aside from watch basketball, which I am not complaining about, and hang out with the dogs. And then every now and again, I get to see my wife.

So I went to a party, and I was like watching the game because I have to watch the Sixers Celtics game. I was interested in it. And I wanted to watch it, obviously, for work purposes. It did not go well. To say the least. It went well if you're a Boston fan. I am not. But it did not go well.

So fine, whatever. These things happen. and I stopped watching it. And within seconds of the game ending, my phone started exploding. And it was all of my friends, because I previously worked and lived in Boston for four years.

All of my, and I'm putting friends in quotation marks, my friends from Boston, who are the very definition of massholes. They all know who they are. I hate them. They're terrible people. And so they were texting me to gloat.

And in this text chain of excited Celtics fans was a message from the boss man. And he is making himself available for heat check. Volunteered. Volunteered. And I was like, well, this is going to go great.

So we're going to get into Sixers Celtics with the boss man, Bill Simmons. That's going to come up right now. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. All right, joining me on the other line. He has been on heat check before.

We've never done this together. I, under normal circumstances, would be very excited about this. Under these circumstances, considerably less excited, it's the boss man, Bill Simmons. Bill, how's thanks? Things are good.

I had a really enjoyable, entertaining weekend. You did, yes. My weekend, less entertaining than yours. It is tough. It's been an existential crisis for the Sixers and their fans. It's really, really got dark the last 24 hours. I would encourage everyone to remind yourself that you're fine. You're going to be great.

You weren't supposed to win the finals this year. You'll be fine. Long term, you're right, but you know how things, like things in Philadelphia have been a little squarely these last couple of months because under normal circumstances, we'd go, oh, yeah, of course, it didn't work out, and you'd just go back to, like, living in your rut. But post-super Bowl, there's, like, this weird feeling,

this weird vibe in Philadelphia that things are supposed to go right now, and now, obviously, they did not go right the last two games. There's this weird moment at time, which I think was, like, eight days ago. Philly had the best odds to win the Eastern Conference. I think they were, like, plus 140. It might even been, like, down to plus 1.25. And, I don't know, the span of eight days. days, LeBron, or maybe it was

minutes, 10 days, I can't even remember all these games happen so fast, but you know, LeBron gets through game four, game five Indiana, and then just rips through Toronto, and now they look like they actually might give Golden State a half decent series. And Philly, it seems

like, you know, that this whole process was getting fast forwarded in two games, it flips. And what's crazy is that, you know, I don't think actually enough to do that about how close to no, those feet were to the line. What was that?

Like eight inches? Nine inches? Well, it was close enough that the confetti guy fired off the goddamn confetti cannon. What happens to that? Did you see the confetti cannon guy what he was wearing? He had a shirt on that said, breaking news, I don't care, which is perfect. Oh, no.

Yeah. So what happens to the confetti guy? Do you bring him back, or does he have to go? No, honestly, they should have fired him before the overtime. There was a couple bad omens for them in that game. that Ben Simmons and Miss Donk, you know, just felt like a moment. Because if you flip it the other way and he gets that, it gets the crowd going. It gets him going.

Who the hell knows? And I don't know. I just wonder how the game unfolds if that goes differently. And then the conceded. And, you know, the other part of it is everyone in the arena thinking they won for like, what, 20 seconds, 30 seconds? Yes, I thought they won too. I had a couple friends that were there. Yeah, my friend Mike Tolan was there.

and they're all like jumping up and down and hugging and then it's one of those things like you turn around and it's like, no, no, there's a flag on the field. So it was pretty cruel how that played out, but, you know, Philly should have won the game. Yeah. I feel like Boston stole game two and pretty much stole game three.

Although, you know, the catch to that is you're only as good as your best players and Simmons and the beach just didn't play well and game two and game three. It's really tough to win if your best two guys don't play well. Yeah, there's a lot there's a lot there. So the confetti thing, that play Brett Brown said, was designed to be a three-pointer. So even the Sixers, the way the Sixers were celebrating, they were celebrating not just like, hey, we're going overtime.

I think we won. And then it turned out that they didn't win, as you said. So that was a bad omen. You mentioned the missedunk. Ben Simmons also had a play late in overtime where he got an offensive rebound with 20 seconds left, and he could have dribbled it out, which is what he should have done and forced them to foul. And instead, he put it up again and missed a bunny. and then all of a sudden that's the end of the game. And I was screaming at this,

I was at a graduation party for a kid who I had just met. And I was watching it on my phone. So I was that guest at the party. It was, there were a lot of moments in that game. You're 100% right where that's a game they should have won. And they didn't because they made plays like that or didn't make plays like that. Well, the alligator armed a little bunny. Yeah.

I thought that sixers were tight. And this is what is supposed to happen in the playoffs. young teams are supposed to take their lumps and learn what to do and what not to do and every year they get more and more comfortable. I was talking, Coral Bob and I were texting today and I was saying, like, you know, for anybody to criticize Simmons or wonder what this all means and all that is just ludicrous. Like, go back and watch LeBron James tapes from like 2004. Watch him the first two years.

Look how different he looks and look how different his game was 14 years ago to compare to now, it's like night and day, this is what happened. You know, I think it's part of the quote-unquote process for him. But, you know, the thing that jumps out to me more than anything, it's really hard to win two straight playoff rounds. We don't really have somebody who can create their own shot. And this has been something they've launched around and cheat your ground. They've had such great athleticism, young legs, and beads of mops, or all that stuff.

But now we're the playoffs, playing the same team over and over again. they're going against the best coach in the league who's putting together one of the best coaching performances that was in L.A. And you know, you kind of need that guy everyone's going on who's like, oh man, they're seven. And Simmons will eventually be that guy, but right now he's not.

And I'm just telling him, the Celtic fan, I'm so happy when they pound it to Embed. I think it's the best possible scenario for the Celtics. I think that's what the Celtics want. They want your L&B to shoot 26 times. They want everybody to stand around and watch them. And, you

He's just not that efficient. And I also think he's not in shape. Yeah. You know, I know Kevin O'Connor, we were all talking about this in the slack, but I thought it was pretty painfully obvious. Like, kind of the bigger workload he gets, he just wears down by the end.

He looks exhausted on the bench. And he's a big dude who is carrying a workload that he's never really had to carry his entire career. And I thought he wore down. I thought he wore down. I thought he's that tight. And they don't really have that. I got this guy. I don't, do you even, what's worried about them,

I don't even know what you would say their best five. If you were going to worry, like, man, our season's going down, who's our best five? I don't think they know. It usually you have to know by now, right? Yeah, and that's part of the problem. I mean, it was sort of glossed over. It's been a really weird year, because you bring up,

like, you bring up a good point that I think the two best players in the series play for the Sixers. However, neither of those two guys are really like, okay, I'm going to just cook for the next three minutes, and I got this and everybody don't worry about it because we're going to need some buckets. And B, it is excellent. I love them. But you're right.

There were a lot of things that he forced. He made some really bad decisions in game three, especially. And then Simmons, we saw what happened in game one or game two where he had one point and they took him out for T.J. McConnell. And frankly, I probably would have left T.J. McConnell in there. I get that you're trying to think about the next however many years and you don't want to arrest his development. And he's had an amazing year and he's going to be rookie of the year or should be.

and, you know, he's going to be an excellent player. He already is an excellent player. But in that game, when you're trying to win that game, I probably would have left TJ in there. So, like, that tells you right there. But hold on a second, though. See, I actually think they should have left Simmons then. They're not winning the finals this year.

They're not winning the title. The goal for them this year is to put these guys in these situations. And, Mark, and Bede needs to learn, like, oh, yeah, I need to be a better shape. And there's an overtime two days after the last playoff. game we played. Simmons needs to learn like, oh yeah, it would be nice

if I had like three or four moves when I'm going full speed into the P. These are like life lessons for these guys. So, you know, it's funny. I thought going into the series that had the two best, I do not feel that players with the highest career ceilings in the series, but I just incorporate

a better, more reliable player at this point in his career than MBE. I really do. Like, if I had to pick who would I want on my team in a class table, and he knows that. exactly who he is. And it happened with Tatum.

And we went into the series talking about Simmons and Embed. Tim has looked as good or better than both of them. He's really good. And it was shocking to me. He's 20 years old. Barely does what he's doing. And he was sufficient to the point that the

Sixers were actually doubling him and over time. Which I was like, oh my God. This guy turned 20 a month and a half ago. That was outrageous. But he was that good. Yeah. No, he's, look, I'm, anybody who listens to this show knows that I'm a huge Tatum fan,

much to the consternation of all my friends in Philly who hate how much I bring it up because it's a killer, right? Like he would be perfect for them. He's long, he shoots the three, he plays amazing defense, he's totally switchable.

He'd be fucking fantastic for them. And instead they've got Markle Fultz who they can't, who one day might be something, but they could really use a guy who was supposed to have the Markell Foltz skill suck coming out of college.

Like you said, a guy who could maybe help them in situations where they're going to need some buck and instead. that he can't get on the floor. And I just see Tatum going out and cooking, and I'm like, this sucks. I would probably still take umbrage with you.

I understand what you're saying about Al Horford in a playoff series for a team, like a veteran guy who knows what he's doing and is very talented and isn't going to make mistakes and he's not going to ever hurt you. Like, I really like Al Horford. I still think Embed is like a much better player moving forward. Moving forward,

but I would say, I think he has some flaws that have really gotten exposed in the series. I'm not even positive. Brett Brown took him out. Remember Brett Brown took him out in the overtime? And Embed was yelling at him and then he put him back in. When he took him out, I was like, damn it. No, keep him out there.

Like that answer, that's how I'm telling him is a substance fan. That's how I felt. Because I think he really throws their offense off. When you're 26 shots, the way they're able to pull him from the basket just creates stuff in the paint. And people just kind of stand around when he has the ball. and they really haven't figured out of

incorporated it yet. I think they're a long way away from kind of unleashing the full potential in a playhouse series. I'm not positive but it happens with this coach.

But I don't know. The line kind of went small and put him at the center put him in the basket and surrounding him with shooters and did it that way because I think that would have been a tough one for the stuff.

Well, so you, what you mentioned, I think, is fair for this series. But I think part of that, and this goes back to your Brad Stevens point

and your Celtics point, part of what's happened the Celtics played Embed and Simmons tough during the regular season and we're seeing what's happening in this playoff series

they've done really well handling those guys and I think other teams have done that less well right? Like Brad Stevens figured it out he's like okay so they get full marks for this

and I think part of it also is the Sixers in the first round played at the fastest pace of any team in the quarterfinals and in the semifinal round all of a sudden they're way off that pace, right? It was like almost 103 points per 100 per sessions in the first round. And now they're playing at about 96.

Like Brad Stevens was like, what we're going to do is slow it down. We're going to grind the hell out of this series. And it's worked for them. And like, there's still a universe where the Sixers could potentially be up to 1 or down 1-2 instead of down 03. But the way that Stevens was like, we're going to play at a completely different pace, a pace that they don't want to play at. and their defense and everything that they've thrown at those guys, like I think it's,

I think you're right, it's thrown them off. And I think it's less like an indictment of, of MBEED overall than it is just like figuring stuff out in a playoff series against a really tough and smart opponent. But that's the thing. It's not an indictment of anybody. This is,

what if he played 10 playoff games total on his life? Yeah. You know, and he played in the end phase. He was that he went two rounds. Simmons didn't make the Ns years. Simmons played a really smart thing. they learn from the honest

series, but they know how to get back on defense and build the wall, kind of keeps him away from the wind on fast breaks, which is thrown him off. But he's still I actually think he should be doing better. I really do think it just got in his head, and I could see him coming out in game four.

It's awesome. I think, indeed, what we're saying, you're going to see the same level of, I don't know, maybe he goes 12 for 26 in the next game, or 10 for 26 or 8 for 25, like, that's kind of just what he's going to do with me again. Simmons is the one.

I thought he got good shot. I thought he got good shots the whole series, right? They just went on hit. Yeah, game two was a bad game for it. That game two probably was the worst game I've seen him play, and I couldn't even tell you. Maybe it happened, right? He's 20, 21. He's on the road.

Hard to play on the road. I'm going on out. This is an interesting corner for you to stake out, by the way. I expected much more excited Boston, Bill Simmons, and you're serving as Philadelphia Sixers' Apologist, Bill Simmons. This is unexpected. No, no, no. No, I love the selfish game.

And I just going to call my dad right after him. And like an hour and a half line, I'll call him to talk to him more about the game. Tatum is the best rookie we've had in 40 years. That's a killer. He really is. It's a killer. He is. I mean, remember the feeling's bad of it.

Like, the three to happen, whatever, false might still be good. Like, it's just, it's been incredible to watch out he's grown this season and the confidence that he has. And just to be able to play like that in a road playoff game is sick, you know? It really, and it also looks like he's grown. I swear he's like, since then, though. But, you know, just the heart. Forford, um, who really took a lot of crap in Boston the last couple years and people just just jumped by the stats and stuff like that.

And he does so many good things, so smart. the way he's playing a beat who just seems like he's 100 inches tall around him. He's just so good he is you know, they just kind of get it out. They never get down.

Even in the overtime, so we scored the first five. And I wasn't that word. I was like, I know we're going to come back from it. I think next round if the Celtics can get there, which seems pretty good,

pretty good chances. So, the way LeBron's playing, it's kind of the Black Cloud hang overall. all this. LeBron's on the best run of his career. And he's just kind of looming.

And he owns the Celtics this whole decade. Are you excited about that series? Because last year it was, you know, LeBron and Kyrie against Isaiah and the Celtics. And it was like, it felt like something momentous. And this year it's like LeBron doing it by himself, which is amazing in its own right. But then the Celtics that aren't like really the Celtics

we're going to see for the next five to 10 years. It's the Celtics with Tatum and Jalen Brown and Al Horford. like probably exceeding reasonable expectations. Are you excited for that series? I think this Celtics team is much better than last year's self-pix team. If I said once I had, it was clear that he wasn't 100%.

I went into that Cav series just thinking, ugh, you know, the whole thing over, like, oh, you know, with the Holter won like six of those seven games, you know? I felt,

I do feel like the Celtics should be up to one, and I do think that series was like, wow, how did we win that? It's just some kind of, The guys that were out there, Amir Johnson and these dudes that just were not playoff guys. This year's team, you know, has gone along. Even when Kyrie got hurt defensively, they've just been really good. And the weird thing about Rojure, who obviously is nowhere near what Kyrie is,

he's a really good two-way player. You know, he does, man, he does, when it's him and smart and Jalen and Thunham and Horford and Bain and Marcus Morris. These guys all are good defensive players. So I think the position to The LeBron thing is just It's just lurking The reason I brought the Philly thing up at the start, though,

is I was really fascinated by everyone flipping out I have a bunch of friends And people I know who are in Philly That's losing their shit over this What do we do? Do we fire up our Brown? It's really kind of fascinating. I actually thought the Sixers team

would get a little more leeway from, you know, I think you would have taken 50 wins And this is round two and all the experience you're getting. It's weird that they, you know, and look, I'm the guy who made the 701, he's the conference bat and thought they were making the finals after the first round. So I get it. But at the same time, like, it does seem like this is ultimately a good season. You got to feel if it ends on Monday night or Wednesday or whatever.

I still feel like this is a successful season, you know. It seems like the mentality now. It's like, what do we do? Do we blow it up? Do we got to get quiet? We got to get LeBron. You guys are good. Ben Simmons is going to be freaking incredible.

You guys are fine. So I think part of that is just like Philadelphia's mentality, right? Like it was shifting expectations. At the beginning of the year, I think a lot of people, I was if they could get to 500 and make the playoffs that's a successful year. But then they rattle off the 16 at the end of the year. Against, you know, like the schedule was a little soft towards the end of the year. And all of a sudden you go, oh, shit, they're like good now.

Maybe not next year now. And then they beat the heat. And like now all of a sudden, like you said, and then the odds change and everybody's betting on them, which, by the way, I mentioned this to House when I saw House in D.C. Otherwise, lovely time with House. Yeah.

The two of you, I know what you're doing over there with the reverse jinks, and now you get to win either way. You either win on your bet or you win on your team. You guys put your mush money on the Sixers. No, no, no. Listen, it was more than mush money. We made a pretty sizable contribution.

to the Sixers final fun. I stand by it. I am really feeling like, I don't know what happened in Simmons to the series although it makes that because of the Young

and Stevens and all the reasons makes sense. I was really in the Kuva. Yeah, a lot of people were. In that Miami series, I just felt like,

wow, this is how it's up. And even now, it's 3-0, you know, nobody's ever come back for 3-0-0-0-100 to win the series.

Which is crazy. The Sixthes are like Quest 650 to come back and win the series. This has never happened in the history of basketball. And even Vegas is like, hey, let's take the South. Let's make sure the South has come in one more here. So you just don't know. They have so much talent. I think the thing going forward, though, is to have this summer where more things could happen.

The Sixers have more kind of sliding doors familiar with. But the Celtics have some, too. You know, Hayward's coming back. Tyree said this draft, they got to figure out what to do it was smart. Lager. And then the whole knows,

is like, why are you on the team next year? Yeah. What if you win the lottery? Like,

there's 40 different ways the series the season could go. Yeah, it's, the off season's going to be interesting because,

one, and you mentioned this, and I really hope it isn't the case, but like, you all of a sudden, you, like,

you hear people throwing this at the feet of Brett Brown, and I don't think that this series is, like, any way on him. Yes,

the, at the end of game two. Oh, no. Oh, no. No, no, listen. You don't really think that, do you? No, I don't think, listen, I think that there's... No, listen, hold on. Was there a moment in game two

when the Celtics were going on a run towards the end of the half where he should have called a timeout? Of course, were there other coaching decisions where he was, you know, where he had like JJ on Tatum and like, I didn't quite understand that. Yes, absolutely. But what I'm saying to you is that there were so many different moments in this series that could have swung the series

and they could be down one, two, or even up to one, where, like, yes, does he take some blame? Of course he does, no doubt about it. But is this all about Brett Brown? No, like, and my point was that you had mentioned, like, there are people going, oh, you know, should they already move on from Brett Brown? No, no. Like you said, the part where you cautioned and said they're going to be fine,

that to me is correct and also includes Brett Brown. I'm in your division. We're both in the Atlantic Division. I hope you keep Brett Brad for a few more years. I know you're not a Brett Brown fan. Please keep them. No, I'm not a Brett Brown. It's not like a Scotty Brooks OKC thing.

I just think he's got his pants pulled down. There's been 20 different moments where I'm just like, what do you, what's this guy doing? I actually thought one of the sneaky dumb mistakes he made in this series, Chris Ryan and I talked about this today. I absolutely want to play false and be in three. I think you throw them out there for two minutes. If anything happens, the crap gets, it's basically like giving the crack cocaine, right? You just start for two minutes.

It's just a test balloon, and you just bring him in and have him try to go to the basket. Just do it. If something happens, there's a spin move, he gets going, the crowd, the roofler come off. Yeah. I couldn't believe him and play him. I mean, please keep him on ice. Well, they, I understand why, because they're trying to win a game and they don't know what they're going to get out of Fultz. And he wasn't very good in the Miami series, and I get that.

But, like, the questions that you have about Brett Brown or the Sixers or whatever, for me, the biggest questions for them moving forward, and especially this offseason are all with Brian Colangelo. Like, I have way more faith in Brett Brown than I do in Brian Colangelo. Brian Colangelo got, I mean, you want to talk about getting exposed by anybody from the Celtics. Brian and Calangelo got exposed with that trade. And now also in this off season, he's got some critical decisions to make. He's got to figure out, okay, like, what, like, Urs. He gets credit for getting Ersson and Bell and Ellie off the discard pile post-trade deadline.

But that's never really happened where, like, two guys catch fire and play prominent roles that were like waiver-wire pickups. So now you've got to figure out, like, how do you replace that production? How many years do you give shots to ringer colleague JJ Reddick? You've got to figure out, like, shooting around these guys and how to replace that production, and that's not going to be easy. I have way more questions about Brian Clangelo than Brett. You know, one of the many mistakes I thought Brown made these last two games was just a minute. I would not play him more than 27, 20 a minute a game. I think he gets super, I don't think he knows out of pace himself.

I think he's super fired up and I don't really think he's capable of playing 38 minute games in the playoffs like with our own tense and physical and everything. He's worn down noticeably, noticeably in these last two games.

And he's seven foot three. You know? And he's not somebody who's playing 10,000 minutes and it's going to be a career. I still think there's a scenario. I could see them when he's four. Then you go to game five in Boston. Who the hell does? I've never felt less safe for the three-neff in league.

Really? You're actually sweating this? I mean, it could have been, like I keep saying, it could be, there's a universe where the Sixers are up in this series, and it's been, even though the Celtics are up 3-0, I think I would contend that it might be the most interesting series in the second round. Oh, no question. Hey, I'll go further.

I think it's one of the same German series that I can remember in the last 25 years. The Celtics were $5.00 in game one. 400 to win the series. The Sixers were, by game time at game one, they were like minus five to win the series. They didn't have home court. He won one playoff series, I think in the last, what, six years? And

the South six are plus five and they're one. Two, they're plus four and a half. Game three, they're plus nine. So, what's game four? Is it all right now? And now it's like, I think they're minus 800 to win the series. But even when they're two-nothing league going to game three,

they were still in minus 130 to win the series. I was trying to think of other ones that were like this. Like I think Pistons Lakers, 2004, like that, 19995 Rockets Magic, where just

something's happening in the series in Vegas is just like, oh, no, they'll be fine, they'll be fine, and then the same thing just keeps happening.

Right. And this has happened three times. Like, you're just bed in the Celtics money line every game you're made an insane amount of money. Yeah, it's been a, it's been a squarely series.

I hope it continues for obvious reasons. And also, because it's been fun. And I'd like to see more basketball and the rest of the second round has not been good. But I think what you're saying is you're going to bet more on the sixes. Is that what's going to happen?

No, no, no, no. I'm going to bet on the confetti guy being a different person in the day four. This is my big bet. That game. I got a bet. That game goes down in history now. It's the confetti game, right? The confetti game. Oh, man.

The fucking confetti. God damn it. Like, there's no question. That's how I want to remember. The goddamn confetti. All right. It really was. You got to go and do other things.

You're probably popping. You probably have a confetti can at your house. You shot it off. You're very excited about the Celtics. I will say, it wasn't very good. Come on. Come on. Come on.

I act like you've been there before a moment. You'll know now. You know, don't shoot the confetti until he makes sure it was game with. They shot that guy with a tranquilizer dart and loaded him off in a body bag to AC somewhere. His family's never going to see him again. Oh, my God. I was actually worried his day was going to be. out of the internet and he was going to have a miserable day, but thank out that doesn't happen.

Bless his heart. Good luck to the confetti guy. Bill Simmons, thank you for doing this. It was better than I expected. I thought it was going to be much worse. God, it was fun. It was fun. Hang in there. You're going to have a great summer. All right, good times. I'll see you soon. All right, there's Bill Simmons. It went exactly according to plan. We're going to get Chase Serrano on next, but first a word from our sponsors. Today's Ringer NBA show Heat Check is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Are you hiring? Every business eats great people and a better way to find them. something better than posting your job online and just praying for the right people to see it,

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Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash Ringer NBA. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. One more time, ZipRecruiter.com slash Ringer NBA at ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. And now, our favorite, Shays Serrana. He's heating up. All right, joining me on the other line. one of our absolute favorites here at the Heat Check podcast. It's Shea Serrano. What's

what's up? One of the favorites or the favorite? I mean, well, the boss was just on. So we had Bill Simmons. I'll take a second place then. I'll take a second place. Can I tell you something? A strong second place finish. I'm going to let you and the listeners in on a little like break down the fourth wall like office stuff here, which I know you love. So we're doing like Bill was on to talk about Sixers in Celtics, which of course, right? So you know, like, Generally for these segments with heat check because of the new format, like we like to keep the ball moving, we keep it to a certain amount of time for each segment.

So the segment goes slightly longer than normal, then it goes a little bit longer than normal. And on our Google Doc, I've got Ike telling me to rap Bill. Hey. And I'm like, dude, you rap Bill.

He's signed up my checks and they clear. He signed my checks too. Listen, don't hang me out of dry like that. I'm like, I'm that rapping bill. out of here. That's the one guy you can't wrap.

We were going 10 minutes over. I was checking the clock. I'm like, yo, we got Chey on next. He's in a different time zone. Same with Bill, by the way. Bill needed to go to sleep. It was like 11 o'clock on the East Coast. I was being considered of my boss and my colleagues.

No, no, you're being disrespectful. That's what you're being. You can't wrap the box. If you're listening, this is all a lie. They have fabricated this story. Remember the part in the departed when Leo first attacks that one guy? Then the other guy jumps in, he's like, I'm the guy who tells you you can't hit that guy. Like, Bill's the guy you can't rap.

Yeah. Anyway, it was nice for working with you, Isaac. I hope you land on your feet somewhere. It was a fun run on heat check while we had them. I just got promoted, too. Well, as we mentioned, if you're looking for somebody, zip recruiter. That's a shout to our sponsor, ZipRecruiter. We'll be looking for a new podcast.

Sounds like the best working ever. Thanks so much. All right, so Shea, we want to talk Cavs and Raptors with you. Yo, LeBron is amazing. He had another game winner. It was an insane shot. He owns Toronto, man. Poor Toronto, like, this is, no matter what they do, they just cannot get past that, dude.

Yeah, it's unbelievable. I was talking about that during the game when it was happening. I was trying to figure out, has there ever been another situation like this where one person very clearly just owned another team? and I was pressed trying to come up with an example because it feels like anyone you could name the other team at some point had at least a tiny advantage

and that's just never been the case with the Raptors it doesn't matter what's happening in the game you just feel like we're just waiting for the Raptors to lose it's kind of remarkable to watch happen at this point like in game two when they were up by 37 points with two minutes left in the fourth quarter and you're just going well here comes LeBron and then sure enough

that just all fell apart we got an overtime game like it's unbelievable it's crazy like I'm old enough that I've been able to see all of Jordan and all of LeBron and I'm not into the big

like who's better I really just like watching both of them but this performance by LeBron in this playoff stretch where a season where his roster his teammates were in flux all year long there was tons of drama

you and I've talked about it a ton on this show right where they barely even got out of the first round. He had never lost a first round series, and he almost did, because his dog shit supporting cast was horrendous. He is basically just taken them on his back by himself and decided,

I'm going to do this. And we've seen so many just LeBron put him on his back performances, but this might be his best ever. I can't believe he's doing this. Yeah, I don't even, you run out of words to say when you're talking about LeBron, because every year he does a thing in a playoff. and you go, well, this is the best that he's ever going to be ever.

And it seems like the last three years, we've had that point when you go, like, this has got to be the top of LeBron. And he just keeps on going up. What do you say? What do you say about a guy who continually does what LeBron does besides, like, whole fuck. Yeah, whole fuck is about right. Like, because of that, because I think, like, sometimes, like,

when I was watching the Pacers series, and I was going, okay, the Pacers have the better team, but obviously the Cavs have the best player, and that trumps everything. But like, we've basically spent the entire season tearing apart two different Cavs rosters, and

it's a series like this that makes me wonder, like, did we over-exaggerate the Cavs issues? Like, does his supporting cast even matter? It doesn't matter yet. It won't matter until probably the finals, but likely next round when they play Boston, because Boston just has so

many rocks to throw at you. Eventually your body just starts to feel a little beat up. But, no, the first two rounds, LeBron is so good. That doesn't matter who you put him out there with. You put him out there with four Delavadovas. And he's going to hang a triple-double

in the first three of the first four games, and you're going to be fine, and you're not going to worry about it anymore. Did you see the S&L skit that got cut from this weekend? That was the other cabs? No, I did not see that. What was that? It was a skit that, for what ever reason, S&L chopped from the one that

Donald Glover hosted this weekend. And it was basically like, we're the other calves, right? And it was like their point guard is a Roomba. And they just like go through and they're just like trashing all the other calves. And I'm like, this is perfect. Because this is exactly right. Like they went and traded for four guys who

have like really not done much, right? Like they reconfigured their entire roster and it really hasn't mattered. And like, I guess Kevin Love, by the way, shots to the ring or curse, which is still real. Like we put out a story, KOC wrote a story about what happened to Kevin Love and then all of a sudden Kevin Love is back. And like, I guess Kevin Love is enough. I guess it's enough. Yeah, I really like, I'm a big, big fan of Kevin Love.

I like that he's just always been there with LeBron sort of in the background. And nobody realizes that that's like his A1 dude. Like he just never is not there for LeBron. He's always around. Just getting shitted on repeatedly, every single chance. And he's still there. Like, if you look at that, the big picture that came out after LeBron hit the game winner was LeBron jumping in the air with his arms out, and Kevin Love sort of wrapped around his torso. And when I saw it, the first thing I thought of was when they won in 2016, and the first guy that was there to hug LeBron was Kevin Love. Like, he's just always, always there. It's great. I love those two guys together.

He's been a constant. Tristan Thompson has played a role at various points during this. You know, like they went back to Kyle Corver. It's been a very weird, like series, well, season too, but series in specific because, again, like one series ago, I was like, well, this is terrible. I don't know what the calves are doing. They're almost losing to the Pacers because the Pacers are just playing better as a team and the Cavs have one dude. And then all of a sudden, you know, LeBron is obviously throwing them on his back, but they are getting some contributions from other guys. I'm really interested in, you mentioned this, like, to see what happens in the next round. apologies to all my people in Philadelphia.

I will retract all of this and deny I said it if somehow the Sixers come back from O'3. But the Celtics have a lot of really long switchable players that could give the Cavs fits in the same way that the Pacers did defensively, only they're better at it and they're better coached. So that next round will be, it's not going to, like it's still LeBron.

It's still LeBron and I still think, I still think that they're the favorites, but that's going to be an interesting series. You know what I was thinking of when I was looking at the Cavs Celtics series? And this is not going to make any sense to anybody except for me. I love this. When I was in high school, when I got to high school, I was in the ninth grade. There was a kid who was two or three grades ahead of me or two or three years older than me.

I don't know if he was in the grades ahead of me. He was a bad kid. His name was Isaac, coincidentally. Naturally a bad kid. Yeah. His name was Isaac. And he was very much. It's like in the gangs.

The school I went to was a super not great school. And Isaac was like one of the worst kids at the school. And one day after school, we were hanging out waiting for a football game. This was on a Friday. And there were four kids who decided they were going to jump Isaac. They were going to jump him at this place called Rachel's Country Corner, which was like a little tiny convenience story that also had this weird petting zoo in the back. Okay.

And they said, we're going to jump Isaac today. Nobody had ever tried to fight Isaac before, to my knowledge. So the word started to spread around that they were going to jump Isaac. So there was very much crowd that was gathered around like to see this happen. Isaac knew what was going to happen. And he showed up anyway. He was like, fuck it, let's go. He gets there.

Isaac is there. The other four guys are there, like standing in front of him. And it's like the scene in Jack Reacher when he's like, don't forget you asked for this. And then they all start fighting. And it's just straight up like fist fight roadhouse style. these guys are just going at it. This isn't like a gravel parking lot.

Dusty garage lot, so dust is all in the air. They're swinging, and Isaac is just fucking laying these guys out. Like one after the other, he's just ka! And they're falling. There's blood all over the place. They're getting their shots in, too, mind you. He's not invincible. They're sort of jumping on them, kicking them, whatever.

But by the end of the fight, all four of the guys were all beat up, all bloodied, and Isaac is standing there like a superhero just in the middle of this dust cloud. blood on his eyebrow, blood on his nose, but still his fists mulled up, and nobody left to challenge him.

And this is what I'm picturing when the Cavs and the Stelthex play. Like, that's what it's going to be, is going to be LeBron just sort of swinging on Horford and smart and Jalen and like just Tatum. He's just coming after all of these guys, and it's going to be ugly and it's going to be violent, and it's going to be fucking perfect playoff basketball. I'm so excited.

This might be the best series of the whole playoff. That was the best Shea Serrano story of the heat check, and that includes that dude with the amazing hair, the story that you told me about the soccer dude that was super handsome, that I said that we were going to have to track him down. This beats it. LeBron as Isaac from high school in, I want all of that. Which, by the way, so if that's,

I don't know if you have any other wonderful metaphors and parables and stories, but whoever if LeBron is Isaac then the raps are super not Isaac like they have they have nobody and like I always look at the wraps and I go oh this could be the year

it's never the year this isn't the year either it's never the year the wraps are the guys in the movie that the bad guy has to fight before he fights the big fight you know they do like a tournament and there's just a couple of quick shots you see him training

you see him warming up and then there's one hit went ahead and they're getting knocked off the matter or whatever. That's the wraps for some reason and I just don't, I don't get it. They're not the big boss. They're never going to be the big boss. KOC wrote a story wondering like, you know, if this is the absolute ceiling

for the wraps and it is. And he mentioned in the story, they haven't had the best player, like this is subjective, but if you really look at it, they haven't had the best player in a single series since 2014 when they got bounced by the nets in the first round. And it's like, yeah,

So they brought back Lowry. Okay, fine. They brought back a Baca, fine. They brought back, you know, Norman Powell, and they got C.J. Miles, and like, okay. And they've got $126 million in guaranteed salaries on the books for next year. And I was thinking about this, even though the Raps had a great season, and they were the most consistent team in the regular season in the Eastern Conference all year, I think just in terms of talent, I might rather be the whiz because of they've got Wall, Beal, and Porter, and as individuals,

like, I love De Rosen, but they didn't even play to Rosen the other. the night. I couldn't believe that. The Raptors are coming back and you're just like waiting for them to put De Rosen back in and he never put him back in. And I feel like that's the moment we're going to get to when we look back and go like this is when this was the end of the Raptors when they didn't put De Rosen back in during this comeback to try to save the series. And Lowry talked about it after the game. Yeah. He was like, oh, De Rosen was on the bench but he was cheering for us because he was a great teammate or whatever. and like he was there and he was clapping short

but that definitely feels like a thing that happens when you get to the end of a time with a team together you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it's a weird dynamic like in our Slack a bunch of people including Pallor who's coming up hot next with Haley were saying like what happens and Charks wrote this story.

Charks wrote a story about how Tailu is running circles around Dwayne Casey which is like kind of an amazing sentence to say that Tailu running circles aren't anyone coaching wise, but like a bunch of people that we work with who are otherwise good people but really want blood are hoping that Dwayne Casey wins coach of the year and gets swept out of the playoffs by the, by the tabs again. Like what a storyline that would be, right? Especially because like you said, in the last 14 minutes of the game the other night,

down 16, they make a comeback and DeRosen's watching all of it on the bench. And he was a, he was really bad in that game. He was a minus 23, which is a team worst. But he was saying afterwards, he's like, it's extremely hard to watch this, and it sucks. Like, I'm sitting on the bench. We're watching this comeback. I think he can contribute. He didn't say I've been our best player, but he's been their best player. And it's really a weird thing

for Dwayne Casey to be like, yeah, nope. Yeah, that's a big stance for Casey to take. And I feel like if I were in that position, clearly I'm not as intelligent as Dwayne Casey, but if I were in that position, like when we get to eight or six, I've got to have

I got to have Duma. And they're like, Damar's just the guy. If you're going to win that game, it's going to be because of him. And he didn't go with that. And that's a big, like, I don't know what you call it, to jump over. That's a big chasm to get across now. Yeah. That's one of those things like now you wonder.

I mean, I don't know. I don't know what kind of lasting damage it does, but it doesn't not do any. It's got like all of a sudden you're looking across the way and you're like, shit, you didn't trust me enough to put me back in. I wonder what that means for him. I wonder what that means for our team dynamic. KOC, Mr. Blow It Up, and his story was wondering about that, about if they need to break up the corn. You know, initially they were trying to get D'Andre Jordan, and they thought maybe you could move Valchunus and somebody like, you know, Yacquip Pertl or maybe Dilan Wright to the clippers in exchange for Dandre Jordan.

But regardless of what the actual machinations would be, would you blow it up or would you just like, because some cities, some teams, right, some organizations, they go, okay, we were really good. We're going to pack the place. We know we're going to be in the mix. We're going to be in the playoffs. We're going to make a lot of money. And that's good enough for us. We probably can't win a championship, but that's okay because we're relevant. And other teams and cities and organizations go, that's not good enough.

I'd rather, you know, bottom out in the service of something bigger. What would you do? Would you blow it up or run it back? No, I run it back. I'm going to be the Knicks in the 90s with this. And I'm just going to keep filling up that stadium. And we'll be the team that's on the championship DVD. for the other guys.

We'll just be that, but we'll just be those people. No yearbook video for you. You'll just be on everybody else's. I like it. All they need is for Jordan to retire, I guess. Yeah,

they just need LeBron out of there, and then also the Warriors out of there, and then also the Rockets out of there, and also the Celtics and the Sixers out of there, and then, boom, championship time for the wraps, maybe. Championship.

Plan the parade, Toronto. It's coming to a town near you. Shea Serrano, this is always fun. You've got, what, a zillion things coming this, week. You tweet, you come on this podcast, you write a zillion stories, you've got 47 books, you've got a family. Do you sleep? You never sleep? I don't sleep a whole bunch, no.

They plug them in to an outlet, but we're happy for it because we get more content from him. You're the best. Thanks for doing this. All right, John, take it easy. All right, homie. Love talking to Shea, love talking to Paolo and Haley, who are up next. But first, one more word from our sponsors. Today's heat check is brought to you by ADT. Is your home an ADT home? If not, you should get ADT and help protect against break-ins, fire, and carbon monoxide. And for a limited time, get ADT's lowest rate starting at just $2899 a month. From the most trusted name in home security, that's just a dollar a day,

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Heechek is also brought to you by Pro Flowers, PSA. Mother's Day is Sunday, May 13th. I'd like to mention that to my wife, Colleen, who always listened to Heechak, because Colleen, Mother's Day is Sunday. We really got to get on that for our moms, and we need to remember to do something special for our moms, pro flowers. Doesn't mom deserve more than one day? I know mine does.

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you know. Just choose the delivery date you want, and it's guaranteed. You can even get your gift delivered on Mother's Day. Mother's Day is this Sunday. Don't forget to show Mom how much she means to you. Send her 100 colorful blooms with a free glass vase for just 1999 plus shipping and handling. I'm actually going to do this. My wife doesn't, but I hope she does. Visit proflowers.com. Click on the blue microphone in the upper right corner and use the code ringer. That's proflowers.com, code ringer, and now the blog twins. All right, joining me in studio promoting their good work and them as people. They're fine people, wonderful people.

Palo Gettie, Halee O'Shaughnessy, two of our favorites here at the Ringer. Two of the most prolific people here at the Ringer. Constantly typing out words. You can find all their words at the Ringer.com. Curtsies. And also their words on Thursday on group chat. You guys are periodic appearances here at He Check. Never together, though.

No. First time ever. How lucky for you. This is wonderful. I see you guys. together doing stuff. And then I hear you guys regularly together doing stuff, but never hear.

So this is wonderful for your he checklist. Be sure to tell Bill and Shay, we are so appreciative for them opening for us. Yes. And, you know. They were the opening acts for the main act. Exactly.

The headliners now. And you guys, you guys have two series that we're going to get into, we'll do the Golden State in New Orleans first, right? Why not? Golden State lost a game

and decided that's enough of that and throughout the lineup with death to start. It seriously was a decision. Yeah. Yeah. That's what it was. They decided, like, we're going to just put our foot on your throat, and that's going to be the end of it.

And that's what happened. Kerr put out that lineup first. And then at the end of the quarter, which it had gone very well for them, he was like, well, actually, more than even the lineup, it was effort. And that has been the entire story of their season. He loves taking those, like, subtle shots of them sometimes. Like, our efforts suck. They're like, we were just awful today. And, you know, like, with that kind of team, I feel like it makes sense because what is their motivation at this point?

Well, he said it during the, you know, and I don't know. really put much stock in the in-game sideline interviews. Sure. It's bad for both sides. It sucks for the media person doing it because like what kind of information are you actually going to glean very little. And it also sucks for the coach who's in the middle of coaching a fucking game. And they're like, I don't really want to talk to you right now.

But Kerr is generally as diplomatic as anybody is in the league. And he used the opportunity in the game against the Warriors. I forgot what the exact question was, or in the game against the Pelicans. I forgot what the exact phrasing was, but it was, what did you like? And he goes, effort. Like, let's just say where he'd keep it up. Like, we need to try.

It kind of reminded me of those, like, when they mic up the coaches, and obviously they're not going to give away any of their game strategies. So it's like, why are you doing that? Because every time they go to the huddles, it's like, effort, guys, let's get some more effort. Just keep going. It's a long game. Right. There's more game left.

The funny thing is, I think, that with him, it actually is meaningful that he says that because he has a team so talented that you can only pinpoint something like that, you know what I'm saying? Well, that's the annoying part of this postseason, I think, is that their story is still they can beat themselves, and that's it. Are they going to decide to win or not?

What you're mentioning about Steve Kerr and about the Warriors and about them trying to sort of overcome themselves as their greatest challenge has been a thing all year. This is something that we've talked about a lot on the show, that we've talked about on the Ringer NBA show. I wrote an entire story, story about it where I went out and

talk to them and I said for people who aren't reporters like generally with this stuff right you go and you would ask questions like hey you know are you guys bored right and it's a question when you know you have to ask you're like shit this is going to suck because they don't want to answer that kind of thing you're going to get

like what are you talking about of course not we're trying our hardest the warriors two way man we're all like yes we are fucking bored yeah they were like uh we're trying to keep ourselves interested and amused and that happened all season long, and I think they broke out of that in the playoffs, and now we're seeing like... Well, no, but they really didn't because the one game that they lost the spurs and the game that they lost the pelagans, it was seriously that.

Well, but those are individual isolated instances? I'm saying, like, are they susceptible to it in individual isolated instances? Yes. Yeah, but I almost think that that's really, really scary in the playoffs. Not to the point where it's like somebody is going to upset them, especially. Like, I'm not super impressed with what the rockets have been putting out, but it's, So maybe it's more annoying than scary. I'm less worried about it because I feel like they almost thrive off of being put on the ropes, if you will. Like that's why like they've had such good games after they've lost because it's like. Paula, read the text. Oh, yeah. Well, so tonight after we're recording the Sunday night.

But after the game, the story released on ESPN, Draymond Greens, quote, long-ass text at 4 a.m. It elicits and I got you reply from Kevin Durant. So apparently after they lost to the Pelicans, Draymond sent a, quote, long-ass text to Kevin Durand at 4 in the morning. And apparently it was about, you know, getting him, like, you're not being aggressive enough, like, you don't have that fire. Like, we need you to be more, like, assertive and all this stuff, right? I mean, I could rid of verbatim, but essentially that's the general message. So then Katie's reply was, in the morning when he woke up, was just, I got you. And then they went out of the one.

And then he did get him. And the team as well, he had 38 points. Kevin Durant had almost had a double-double. He had nine rebounds. He had five assists. He was absolutely amazing. And Haley and I were talking about this. And it started from the beginning.

He was a kill. A killer. You can always tell with Kevin Durant. He was a killer. And the Pelicans bust their hearts. So they threw a number of different things at Kevin Durant. In the very beginning, it was a lot of Drew Holiday. Drew Holiday is an excellent defender.

There were multiple points in the game where I was like, holy shit, that is fantastic defense by Drew Holiday. There were a couple of plays where I was rewinding it. And they did it in the game broadcast as well, where you saw he was so up in Kevin Durant's face that I'm not sure that Kevin Durant could have seen the basket because, because Drew Holiday had his hand, like as close to Kevin Durant's face as he could have without actually putting his hand on his face physically and still Kevin Durant trained the shots. I mean, like, it couldn't have been better defense.

Well, but what do you do? What we were talking about earlier is that Drew's best asset against somebody who's six inches taller than him, Drew 6'4, is basically trying to force him into the most uncomfortable shot possible. Kevin Durant's always going to be able to shoot over you. The question is, can you force him into a bad shot? Yeah.

That's what's kind of fascinated me about, Durant in these playoffs, especially when Steph came back in game one against the Pelicans, or was a game, no, game two against the Pelicans. When he came back, it was so evident to me that, like, I almost want to call Kevin Durant a luxury for this team because he has the ability to just realize at any given point in the game, nobody can really guard me and I can get any mid-range shot over everybody, anybody that I want. And in that game, because Steph has such a strong, like, return, he didn't have to do that until the fourth quarter. In this game, he had to do that throughout the whole game. So it's like it's so, it's so both hilarious and amazing in the testament to his talent that he can be such a... But also so frustrating. Sure.

Yeah. That it's like somebody who has that much ability maybe doesn't always turn it on. And that's why, like, I guess a lot of people are frustrated that he went to the Warriors in the first place because that's a place where he doesn't have to do what he did tonight every night. Right. And then there's always the quote where he was like, I didn't want to be the leader. So, you know, I don't like being the leader here. Right. But I also think it's interesting that Draymond tech says it all is that Draymond literally, he was that.

had to pester him into being like, hey, last game, you weren't really that aggressive. Let's be aggressive. I think it's one of those texts, too, where you're just like, you get it from the coworker and you're like, ah, okay, I'll do it. Before we go on, let's all share our last long-ass text. Oh, my gosh. That'll be coming up and not. After the break.

He checked the after show. But so on the other side, you have the Pelicans who, look, it's been a fun season for the Pelicans. I think that they've exceeded all reasonable expectations. interpretations. Anthony Davis is a monster. But as KOC mentioned on this program last week, and I was like, you know, Anthony Davis did Anthony Davis things. Kind of the same thing happened here. He had 26 and 12 and two blocks. And KOC was like, they need him to have 46 and 12. And that's probably right, right? Like he's good. He needs to be better than good. He needs to be the, like, the best player on the floor. And he wasn't. It was Kevin Durant. And then beyond that, I mean, Drew to Holladay has been really good all season. He's been really good in the playoffs. Still not enough. You wrote about your guy, Rejohn Rondo, and his secret milkshake.

Didn't trick enough of them. Apparently not. I mean, that was a fascinating story that I got to just kind of stumble into, which was really fun. I like that you just called your own story fascinating. Okay. I don't know.

I'm not referring to the text specifically, but about the fact that the milkshake exists. That's hilarious. No, but so it's one of those things where, like, if you actually look at the splits and the numbers around February to the end of the season, Rondo had to play more minutes, and he had to carry on a bigger load,

and obviously it was kind of went alongside with Boogie's injury, and, you know, they concocted this 12 ingredient shake that apparently gives him a boost for the third and fourth quarters, and then afterward it helps him recover. So, but you're right. Like, he may have not had enough during this series,

or maybe it's just that the Warriors are really good. I mean, well, they were, I mean, you know, and not surprising development, they were sacking so far off of Rondo. It was like, he was in the gym by himself. And they're like, okay, you could take whatever passing angles you want. It's still not going to matter

because we're now playing like 5 on 4 on defense. He did really take advantage of those, though. Yeah, I mean, that was impressive. He did. I mean, he's, look, he's an all-time transcended passer, right? He's one of the best league of his generation. But in this series, when you need more scoring, there were so many times where I was watching that game and going,

they need scoring. Where's it going to come from? They just don't have anybody, really. Well, their bench is definitely more solid than anyone expected going into this season. And also the addition of merit. helped a lot because he is actually like a score who can give them those points that they're needing. There's still a huge gap into what they're getting and what they needed.

Well, especially relative to Golden State. Exactly. No one points out more than that. Yeah. Do we, I mean, is this, it's already a rap, right? Yeah. Like, not even another game for the Pelicans. Poor Micah. But you know what?

This is what we've been waiting for, right? It's good. The Warriors are going to get through and the next series that we were talking about. We were watching this. And it was sort of a little tug and pull between the ringer staffers, because on the one hand, we want a good second round series. And for the most part, the second round has been a boss with the exception of Philly and Boston, which has been fun, but is a 3-0 deficit for the sixers. So that one, like unless something really crazy happens is also probably right.

But it's been fun to watch because that series could be, as I've said previously earlier on this actual show with Bill, could be 2-1 or 1-2 the other way. Right, exactly. But the rockets go out, they beat the jazz, they're up 3-1. And that game was never really in doubt that jazz tried to make a couple of runs. And it looks like we're just barreling towards Rockets and Warriors, which is what we've been waiting for all year anyway. I mean, that's something I've been talking to Haley about a little bit too is it's like, for the Pelicans and the Jazz, great job, great effort. You got here, nobody really expected you'd get here. You can only play the nobody believes, you can only feed off that nobody believes in us card for so long.

And it's finally we're getting what we wanted to get. And we're probably going to get it with the same amount of rest for both teams. And like the perfect stage, and literally the only thing that we have been building, up to this season is this. And I'm excited for it. Well, with both of them, it just boils down to a talent differential being, you know, so great. So it's, you know, we all expected to be this Western Commerce Finals, but do we really want to watch anything else? I mean, I, like, no, yeah. I mean, I expected it and I'm excited about stylistically, you know, like the old saying it's, like styles make fights. This is going to be an interesting one because you've got the warriors

who whipped the ball around the perimeter and it's a really beautiful brand of basketball. And The ball never stops moving. And then you've got, and this is something that we have talked about at length and written about at length here at the ringer most recently by Mark Titus, who wrote, you know, are the rockets actually fun to watch? We talked about this on heat check last week. We'll talk about it right now. Sure.

The rockets, I actually do like their sort of isoball heavy, like hunting for fouls basketball, because for whatever reason, like I think there's an art form to it. And I kind of like watching it. Other people don't like it. Where do you go to stay? I subscribe to the theory that. there are actually two Rockets teams within this Rockets team, which is that there is the Isoball heavy rockets team

that is hitting shots. And that's very different because I think that, for example, when I went to the Clippers game, Clippers Rockets this year, it was a game where Hardin basically ended Wesley Johnson's career. And that game was so, so fun to watch because they were just, you could tell they were on a rhythm

that was just beyond anything anybody could even compare to. And they were just hitting shots off the dribble. Hardin was playing so smooth. And it was so fast. And you were like, wow, this is actually appealing. But then there's the other rockets who are far more willing to draw those fouls and getting to these more bogged down, low-you-to-sleep kind of possessions. Well, that also happens when they're missing shots.

Exactly. So that's my point. So it's very ugly. I'm in favor of the very good hitting all the shots, smooth fast rockets, as I'm sure a lot of people are. But the other version is the one that I'm kind of like, not so sure I'm enthused about it. Right. I agree with him. I had fun watching them tonight.

but probably because I was in such great company. Wow. That's nice. I like that you guys. I'm just trying to get back on this podcast. That little plug in there. You guys are always welcome on this podcast. We should probably talk about the jazz, right?

I mean, like, I hate to, like, throw Utah out and the greater jazz fan base they've had a fantastic season. I think it's a better season that a lot of people would have predicted considering that Gordon Hayward left. I think a lot of people thought that this was going to be a step back year for them. I wrote a piece about them towards the end of the regular season where I was like, look, if you look, if you look, at Quinn Snyder's done a hell of a job when they got Rudy Gilbert back from his second injury. I talked to Rudy about this. And he flat outside, he was like, there was a stretch there where we lost the hawks on the road where we were about to start this long road trip where I was like, I think we're cooked.

Like he was looking at the standings and like, and I'm paraphrasing here, but he was looking at the standings going, I don't know how we overcome this. And Quinn Snyder was like, you know, just focus on what we're doing here and we'll see how it goes. And all of a sudden, boom, they go on a run. They won the first round. it's a tough it's a tough matchup though because as you mentioned the rockets have more talent right like you look at the jazz and charks wrote about this donovan mitchell that's already his team he's a rookie and that's great but it also calls out like the talent disparity right well but it also shows how

amazing he is of course i know look i love don michael you love don't so amazing that not to call haley but so amazing apparently that before the season her and i wrote down who we thought our playoff are going to be. And I wrote that... I saw this. You guys... We made a bet. And I wrote that

the jazz would make it in as an eight seed. Granted, they didn't... They made it in a little bit higher than that. But I wrote them in. And Haley didn't have them making the playoffs.

So I don't know about that Donovan Mitchell belief in retrospect. But it's a lot to add. Like, it's one thing to say, like, we all like... I loved Donovan Mitchell. It's another to go, oh my God, he's already

really good in one of the best players in the NBA. Yeah, I had no idea about that. Yeah, nobody did. I had no idea about that. And by the way, Not for nothing, neither did the jazz. Neither did the other, what?

He was the 13th pack, neither did the other 12 teams ahead of him. Otherwise, he would have gone a lot hired. If you were redrafting, he'd be, I mean, just in this class, if he's not one, he's two, right? Like, I'm not talking, Ben Simmons doesn't count. Of course, he wasn't in his draft. Right, just this draft class.

He is a rookie talking about the draft class, but he's been amazing. I think he's really acquitted himself. Well, Shea, in one of his many prolific tweets, I wanted to bring this up to you guys, tweeted that in this playoffs, his top three guys for, he's really done a lot for his reputation. He's got Donovan Mitchell number one, Drew Holiday number two, and then Joe Engels number three. Joe Ingalls is another guy who, I was not a Joe Ingalls fan.

I thought that they just kind of signed him again because who else were you going to, the jazz going to get, right? I mean, it's not a destination. He's been great. Yeah. Well, I remember that when they signed him over the summer, it was kind of presented as this, oh, this is your step one to getting Hayward back because there such good friends. And everybody was like, okay, it's a lot of money for Joe Ingalls, but if you get Gordon Habord with that, then you're kind of okay with that. But he's actually lived up to the contract. And I mean, not to add on to Shay's, I'm sure, foolproof list, but I think another guy

who's there, who should be there and on the same team is Ricky Rubio. Yeah. Ricky's been great. I mean, we've talked a lot about Ricky here at the ringer, not solely because of his basketball talent. Of course. I mean, he's at the top of my NBA handsome rankings. I think he would be there for mine as well, yeah. It's really shot up in the opposite. The new look with the long hair and the beard is something, I think, like, Isaac has been with me throughout this entire heat check

iteration, both versions 1.0 and 2.0. And Isaac, have I talked about anybody as more handsome than Rick Rubio? Never. You have an unwavering affection towards Rick. I love that guy. How do you feel about the look he's sporting on the sideline with the blazer over the hoodie?

You can't do anything wrong. I dig it, but there are some people out there who are kind of questioning. Is that not the look of the entire postseason bench You know what I mean? Like sideline player Tom Brown suits Bench uniform

By the way Shots to Meg Schuster Who's my fellow Rick Rubio enthusiast But I wonder Like for the jazz moving forward Because we sort of As a preemptive

Exit interview I was saying like for the Sixers I'm really nervous about Their offseason Just because I'm still not sure About Brian Colangelo I like Dennis Lindsay a lot better In Utah

I think he's a much He's got a better track record And we've already seen what he's done with these guys already, they need more, right? And I don't know where they get it. I don't know where they get it. I mean, like, I guess it's going to be in the draft,

but like you're going to be picking lower and I don't know how it goes now. Well, they have an interesting cap situation where a lot could happen, depending on who they resign, some decisions that they make, Derek favors, for example. But also, I feel like it has to be a draft, something born out of the draft, A, because you're a young team, but B also because, yes, Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Go Bear, probably very appealing, but it's never

going to be a free agency destination. And they've shown that they can draft well, even if they don't have a top pick, as they did with Donovan and Rudy as well. So I think for a small market team like the Jazz, I think that's the way to go. I do think maybe getting a better version of Jake Crowder might help

or something like that. Maybe, you know, that's, I guess, one way another three and do you wing. I just can never go wrong to pair alongside Mitchell. That's everybody everywhere. Of course, yes. That's the NBA in the nutshell. Also, they've got thoughts and prayers to Dante Exum, who went down, grabbing his hamstring, and who knows what's going to happen there. So, good season for the jazz. Welcome to, you know, the brink of elimination along with the Sixers and everybody else.

We'll be monitoring all that. We've got a lot of ringer podcasts for you guys, gang. Basketball never stops. We got KOC and Verno on Tuesday. We've got sources say on Wednesday, group chat on Thursday, and of course draft class on Friday. And the big boss, Bill Simmons, you heard him earlier in the program. He'll be back later in the week. I want to say thank you to Bill Simmons.

who was surprisingly kind to me and magnanimous as somebody who was up 3-0 in the series and also as a big Boston fan. Well, kind to you, of course. Kind to me. They're up 3-0. Yeah, I expected a little more gloating. My friends from Boston were big gloaters. Bill was not. That's to his credit.

Shea Serrana was on the program. He told an amazing story. He killed it. And of course, Paulo and Haley, who they don't go home. They just stay here and they write words. And we unlock them for their shifts. And it's wonderful. And, of course, Isaac Lee, who's our excellent producer.

Isaac and I will be back next week on the heat check. After what I did today, I hope I'm back on the program. I'll be back next week. TBD on Isaac. Thanks for listening to the heat check podcast, everybody gang. See you. There's a fly all around me. Isaac Lee, what the hell?

She's making a lot of justiculations for those of you not in the studio with us right now. But I think it adds to the whole dynamic.