The Ringer NBA Show - Celtics Finally Show Up and the Wolves Make Things Look So Very Hard. Plus, Midway Playoff MVP Ballots. | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 11, 2025

Justin, Rob and Wos kick things off discussing how the Timberwolves are making life hard for themselves despite going up 2-1 over the Stephen Curry-less Warriors (3:48). They talk Anthony Edwards' massive game as well as Julius Randle stepping up in a much-needed victory. They shift focus to the Boston Celtics who bounced back in New York against the Knicks with the guys giving their thoughts on why Boston is still likely primed to win the series (27:15). The guys close things out talking through who their MVPs of the playoffs have been so far (47:00). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to The Ringer NBA show presented by Fandul. America's number one sports book has made it easier than ever to get in on the action during an NBA playoff game, even after tip off. Just look for the live SGB tab on the Fandual Sportsbook app and build your bet slip. Then sit back, relax, and track the outcome of your parlay right in the app. If you don't already have it, download the Fandual app today to make every moment more. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. please visit rg dash help.com to learn more about the resources and help lines available and listen to the end of the episode for additional details must be 21 plus and present in select

states gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rg dash help dot com hello and welcome group chat i am justin verrier and joining me rob mahoney big wads i would say a pretty normal night of NBA basketball and almost seems like the playoffs rob went to therapy worked on itself and We just got some pretty good, but not chaotic NBA playoffs. I'd forgotten what it feels like, honestly, to have a normal NBA night. I'm not mad about it. But ultimately, yeah, like we're used to a certain level of just complete upheaval on a night like this, complete mayhem. And this was good, normal playoff hoops.

Was plenty to pick apart. But I know we're going to get into all that. I just need one ruling from was up top. We saw Jason Tatum walking into the game today in Tim's. And I need a ruling from you on who is allowed to wear Tim's and under what circumstances. I mean, everybody is theoretically allowed to wear Tim's. You already said theoretically and this is the problem. Yeah, theoretically, it's just, you know, that boot is so synonymous with New York City and hip hop culture.

I guess he was trying to like make a statement and he's got the overalls on and he looks like treach from naughty by nature. I know I'm aging myself with that. reference. But I was fine with it. It's like, it's Tatum trying to be interesting. It's better than what we usually get from this guy in terms of theater. And so I'm fine with it.

You know, it wasn't him, you know, sort of being disrespectful. Like when, you know, the Knicks would lose back in the day, they put the crying Jordan face on a Timberland or whatever.

He's not like mocking my culture. Got you. So I'm fine with it. He was trying to make a statement, make it fun, make it engaging. It's more a winning. Rome sort of thing is what you're arguing here?

Yeah, absolutely. I like that. Rob, did you have Tims growing up? I did not know. I definitely did. I had multiple pairs. In fact, I was drawn in on the little tree, probably because they were fake in order to just emphasize that these are indeed Tim's.

Why, did you ever do that? No, I know. I never did that. No, I never drew on my timbulins. But yeah, it was one of those things like pretty much before every single school year. you would get a new pair of boots because, you know, it snows a lot, obviously, in the northeast. So you always need a new pair of boots. But the funny thing about it, like, they're not the best snow boots.

Hence why you need new ones every year, apparently. That's not a good sign. It's actually just literally just a fashion statement is not very functional. But, you know, I'm happy Tatum is participating with the theater of NBA playoff basketball. Yeah. All right. Well, we can step into the Burlington Coat Factory a little bit later. first and foremost, I think we need to talk about the game that we just watched.

Wolves dig out a 2-1 series lead against the Warriors and what could possibly be the dumbest game I think I've ever seen. The wolves, Rob, just have a certain way of making things so hard on them. In fact, our guy Law Murray from the athletic dubbed it CTE situational hoops, which I really like because they didn't have Steph. They didn't even make a three-pointer of the Warriors in the first half. Yet everything is just so hard for the wolves. I just don't think they've handled the activity of Golden State's defense at all,

like the fronts, the puzzles that the Warriors are presenting them. Everyone, starting with Anthony Edwards, has that done a great job of, like, cracking that code. Now, there came a point in this game where Ant just decided, fuck it, I'm going to overwhelm it. I'm going to dunk on top of the code. And that worked pretty well. But as far as picking apart this Golden State team, I just don't think the wolves did a good job of it all night long. And that is worrisome after the last series, where we saw them do that very methodically against the Lakers.

This was, you know, the wolves flying a little close to the sun, as they are odd to do. They make some absolutely heinous mistakes and just are completely spaced out in a way that we'll catch them at some point. I don't know if it's going to be in this series or not, because they have enough strength and juice and athleticism and collective defense to probably overcome a series like this, especially if Steph is not back at all or back too late in the series.

But it doesn't make you feel great about, their collective problem solving. The Warriors, I think, has demonstrated that they're one of the best defenses in the league. Without a doubt. And in order to beat them, you need to execute at a high level. You know, like, this isn't just screw around, make a couple of passes. Julius Randall gets to attack Austin Reeves and have fun. Like, this is a completely different animal.

And it just seemed like they weren't up to the task. They just weren't interested. interested, excuse me, in trying as hard as they can. You know, all of that being said, I thought Anthony Edwards in the second half was just utterly just dominant. He's shown that he, like,

when he is dialed in, he is a singular type of talent and can dominate. Just the wolves, they've had this tendency all year to sort of play up or play down to their competition. And, you know, you see Steph Curry on the sidelines looking sad and despondent.

it probably doesn't get you too excited to play in the game. Playoffs and all. Yeah, I just feel like in the last series against the Lakers, when we were talking about, and a lot of it was being congratulatory about his playmaking, the ability to pass out of double teams, to find everybody else and get everything going. He was orchestrating in a way that he pretty much hadn't up until this point in the playoffs.

This series is a little bit different. I think you've got to give the reward's credit for making it harder on him, but the fact that his assist numbers are so low, I think is a telling sign, 254 over the first three games. And in fact, a lot of the times where things are ungunked, Rob,

it seems to be Julius Randall kind of digging it out of the mud. And he had a lot of good plays at the end there. Yes, it was meteoric, the dunk over Looney, just some physical Marvel plays

that he typically does. But it really feels like Randall is the guy that is almost leveling them up with his brain and not necessarily with overpowering guys with his strength. Yeah, I thought their easiest baskets,

basically in the entire game were, Randall setting up aunt on cuts and like playing counterintuitively to the one-on-one style that really bogged

them down and really did gunk them up in that way. Like they, the ball just kind of sticks in all the wrong places and it's the reason my Minnesota goes on these absolutely

putrid scoring droughts. Like they just cannot get things going for extended periods of time. I do think Randall helped them navigate some stuff. I think he also made some really bad

turnovers and made some really bad mistakes. But most importantly to me, he was just like fucking awesome to watch going one-on-one against Draymond Green and cut basically by the end of this game, every ounce of fat out of like the settling for a jumper part of his game

and was just trying to get to the rim over and over and over. And it's like, look, if you're not going to, if you're not going to really lay out the defense and break it down on a conceptual level, at least be aggressive, at least bring intensity, at least be going downhill versus settling for things, which is usually where other offenses kind of go astray. And so I think you have to give Randall a ton of credit

for his all-around game here, but also just the way he was able to bully through one of the best offenders in the world and was a huge part of ultimately, although he didn't draw Dremont's sixth foul, getting Dremont kicked out of this game was six. You know, I feel like pretty much all NBA players

have a context for why they play, how they play. You know, there's LeBron and KD, like, where like, whatever, you put them on Mars, they're going to be Hall of Famers, all NBA, kind of players. But the vast majority, 90% of NBA players are a product of the context in which

they are placed. You know, whether that's where they're drafted, what kind of pieces the GM puts around them once you establish that they're a star, et cetera. And Julius Randall had a piss poor playoff reputation before this because he was the Knicks number one option in those playoffs. And in Minnesota, he's not that. He's not being tasked with being the be all and end all of a team's half-court offense where every now and again he gets a grenade and he's dribble, dribble, dribble, step back three and clanking it off the backboard.

Now he's able to attack in, you know, the ways that are most optimal for his given skill set, which isn't like, you know, playing around on the perimeter. It's like attacking guys. It's overrising dudes. It's left shoulder straight into your body.

Straight up Jerome Bettis, you know, out there on the court. And, you know, like we said over and over again because he continues to do it, getting rid of the ball as soon as he draws help, spraying out to open shooters. Like, you know, it matters that now that he's not the New York Knicks number one option. And he gets to be the sort of Batman, excuse me, the Robin to Anthony Edwards' Batman. He's just a completely transformed player by that. I don't think we can do that.

This is now too many Batman and Robbins. Oh, is that exclusive to the Golden State? Well, who's the Elford then? Is that Conley's? Hey, well, no. I will say Conley has him, first of all. I don't appreciate it. Came up big late, though. I have to give Rob credit.

I don't know why, but I always associate you with Mike Conley. I'll take it. He had the, he locked down Jonathan Camingo on that crucial possession late in order to allow Ant to come and swipe down. Then they get the run out and then they kind of ice it there. But like Conley showed up defensively really well. I do think Randall and what you're talking about was might be a good entree into the comminga part of this because there are kind of parallels happening there at the very least that the fact that Steph wasn't out there and Steph is so often the punctuation on a lot of what the Warriors want to do because Jimmy wants to play the orchestra right and Draymond in his own special way off the ball is kind of doing the same thing. They're seeing the bigger picture. They're trying to get other guys involved in order to ultimately score the points. And I do feel like Kamenka, Slotted into place a little more easily than he ever had before.

And on the one hand, Caminga, not a perfect player. I don't want to just absolve him of all of his sins. There are a couple of bonehead and mistake in this game and throughout the playoffs. There have been a ton of them, Rob. But I do feel like the fact that he was more featured

did optimize the few things he does well, because when the defense is tilted and he has the athletic advantage, like he can score on that. And he had 30 today. And so I guess I'm giving him more credit because I'm seeing his play a little bit differently today. I do see his play it a little bit differently. I struggle with Kaminga because he is good at exactly this,

which is if you want to make it the Jonathan Kuminga show, he can do some of that stuff. And look, there are times in this game where I have no idea what he's doing, but clearly he has some sense of it, and he's doing things that no other Warriors role player can. Like, if he does not do this, Brandon Pajemsky's not going to do it.

Kvonne Luni's not going to do it. But he healed's not going to do it. Like they needed this sort of performance from him. It's really their only means of staying, alive until Steph gets back is to get this from somebody. So the fact that he's able to step up and do it is important. I think that's almost a separate conversation between who is Jonathan Kuminga from a Golden State team building perspective. His future is often a separate bucket. Right now, it's like, how do you get past today? How do you survive this week? How do you get past

this step absence? And he's critical in that. I just don't know that he's critical in anything else that's happening with the Warriors. It's crazy because there were moments where I'm like, oh, This is the theory of Jonathan Kamenga actually coming to fruition in this game. Like, this is cool. And then there's other moments. Oh, my God, this guy kind of sucks. It's kind of crazy that these happen

within the same game, right? Like, he can't even just produce like a consistently good game. Is he in his fourth year or his third year? I believe he's in his fourth. This is his fourth year. He can't put, like, you know, sometimes with young guys,

they can't do it game to game. Kaminga stringing together quarters to quarter of like good consistent play And it's just like man, it's so frustrating Because when he's going in a more positive direction It's so obvious how this guy can help a real team Win basketball games with his athleticism And his motor and all of that stuff

But then like some of his decision making Just leaves a lot to be desired You can see some of those ebbs and flows though Like his athleticism is what makes him play in this series and what makes him a good counter in some ways to Minnesota. It's also what makes Moses Moody just look completely overwhelmed out there. This is just not

a Moses Moody series. And I think Kerr in Game 2 cast this really wide net with his rotation. Like we were getting Kevin Knox rotation. It was a crazy wide. It was a lot. There was a lot going on. By the end of this game, there's like seven guys playing. And one of them is

Jonathan Cumminga playing essential minutes, playing an essential role as a score. There's just no way around praising something like that. This was a tremendous performance in a way that Golden State absolutely needed. I think you kind of hit it there. I think this was a showcase of what Kaminga could be in a different situation, almost. If anything, it underlined the fact that he's probably better off away from the

warriors, because when they lose their warriorsness, when Steph is out of there, all of a sudden Jonathan Kaminga is featured. He's a 22-year-old still trying to figure out who he is as an NBA player and constantly the story with him is who he thinks he is is coming right into collision with who the warriors have always been for the past decade or so. And so that's tough to navigate for a young player. And so I kind of like, I feel sympathy for him in a way that like I probably hadn't going into this game because he he's just like a big athletic guy who just needs to play basketball and figure it out. He just can't do that in the wards. You think he's going to succeed

in his, in his next at his next stop, Justin? Depends. I think if he understands where his strengths lie and like lean into those and then layer stuff on top of that. But for instance, if he goes to the Wizards, is he going to try to be Kobe Bryant or is he going to try to be Sean Kemp in the modern NBA and just like use his physicality to attack downhill? I doubt it, but there is a path there. What do you, what do you pay a guy who's in his fourth year, but it's still considered a project? Probably 25 million because that's what everybody gets on their guy. That's like the floor for a lot of this highly drafted. What's, John, Josh Getty going to get, probably 20 to 30 million.

Well, we should ask you. You're his agent. I don't know. If it was up to me, he would be making as much as possible. But yeah, no, I think Kaminga played well, but we also have to give it up to Jimmy who just like, just stepped up. Just completely becomes a different person in the playoffs. It's just, it's happened so often now. I'm almost numb to it. But God, Rob, this is just like he did it again. Well, you also mentioned it, Justin, too, in terms of wanting to play the orchestra. Like, this is not who Jimmy Butler wants to be. to be playoff effective and like a playoff killer,

but he doesn't want to have to force it this much. And I think you saw some of the limitations of that. Like he doesn't actually want to take threes. And he can't really finish contested layups that well when he's not getting calls. And that puts him in like a pretty narrow zone of like he has to gut out these very specific footwork heavy, technique heavy, mid-range heavy buckets.

And he just did it over and over and over again. And he made like Nas Reid for one look kind of unplayable at points in this game. I thought basically every second that Rudy Gobert was off the floor, Jimmy was just feasting, getting basically whatever he wanted, getting the switches that he could dominate,

getting to the rim at will, and putting Rudy in changed a lot of things for a lot of different warriors who were trying to get inside. As you mentioned, this was not a team that was super interested in taking a lot of threes in the first half, was so reliant on getting to the basket.

And Jimmy is a huge part of that. Like his playmaking, his creation, he knew what he had to do today. And you have to respect a guy who's willing to put his own personal vision of basketball aside to say, you know what, today's just a game where I have to score 30. Like, it's just what has to happen. There's a play where Jimmy was like backing into Edwards. I forgot. I think it was in the second quarter. And it was the type of spin. Yes, the spin off of him.

Which like maybe no other human can do. Like it's asking a lot of someone like Anthony Edwards, but I almost feel like it needs to be watching Jimmy get where he wants to with guile and just the awareness of where everybody else is and how every move he makes seems to be leveraging what he anticipates the defense to be doing, where what Edwards is doing is a lot of just reading, reacting, just overpowering people with his athleticism. Was, does that ring true to you at all? Yeah, for sure. Jimmy is just the ultimate balance in footwork king. I think Ant has great footwork when he's setting up his jump shot with the hand, like the combination of the handle and the footwork when he's like setting up that step back or he's

just like straight up dribbling by people. He's really good at that, but he doesn't have the footwork when he gets closer to the cup. He's kind of just like taking off and like, I'm so athletic. I'm just going to figure this thing out in midair. Whereas Jimmy is like, like you said, he is setting up his moves with a faint here, knowing that he's going in the other direction. It's like a completely, you know, it's almost like one guy's playing electric guitar and the other guys playing the bass.

Like it's just a completely different register when it comes to, you know, an approach to paint finishing. And that stuff takes a lot of work, man. Like people don't just become like these great paint scores overnight. Like everybody goes through with Steph, Dame, all of these guys who, you know, made their names as like, all right, man, if you leave me out here on a perimeter, I'm going to kill you. And the scouting report is like, make him put it on the deck because he's not going to be able to finish. Those guys overcame those limitations. It became, I would say, like, good to damnly a great thing.

finishers, you know, when they were at the peak of their powers. And, you know, Dame is really athletic guy, not as athletic as aunt. I think Steph Curry is sneakily athletic, which is ridiculous, but he is. But Aunt is just on another level of athletes. So you would think he's just working at, like, you know, his base floor is just higher to become just some incredible finishing. And there's times where it feels like, you know, when he gets going downhill, that there's nothing anybody could do.

And other times when he just misses three straight layups, And you're like, what the hell is going on? I mean, a lot of it is Jimmy. If you'll pardon the like JV coach bullshit, I'm about to spew. Jimmy is like the playoff of two feet king. Like he always keeps his balance, always keeps his pivot. And as I would do too, if I had a 40 inch vertical, I would play off one foot a lot. I'd be leaping into the air and figuring it out later.

So I can understand it. What is your vert? We don't have to talk about that. No, don't worry about that. We jumping over paper here? Barely clearing it. You know, sometimes if you pull the paper, I might, I might slip. So don't, don't move it around too much.

Yeah. I don't want to denigrate too much of Ant just because he ended up with 36. And like you guys were mentioning, you did kind of give them the closing punch that they needed. But the difference is taking the game by the throat in the first half as opposed to the second half. The warriors are wounded. They're not even shooting threes, let alone making threes. They're over five in that first half. It's about like seizing the opportunity and leaving no doubt.

And that is the difference between where Aunt needs to go and where he is right. now. And so it's mildly disappointing just because coming off of that Lakers game, I was feeling the juju, you know, like the vibes, my sixth sense for, for predictions was just like, was bringing all over the place. I was like, the wolves might have a path to the NBA finals here. And like the path we should mention is a little bit easier than what the thunder are dealing with right now with the nuggets. We'll get that a little bit later. But it just also feels like things are clicking into place with the wolves. They have everything you would want. They have the lineup versatility where they can go big and small. They have the shooters. They have the guards. They have the guards.

are reels in place with Randall now and Conley unfortunately like things just like the bells that's just never all the way there and I think and deserve some of the blame for that just because like he's the guy who is going to when things aren't as clean and crisp as they need to be he's the one that should be the stopping point and be like no we're doing it this way and we're just going to end this in five after watching today I don't know if you guys got the same feeling as me but I'm like man if you add in the domination that Steph was enjoying you know 13 minutes into game one and watching these jokers

almost, you know, trick this game off. I'm like, Golden State would have beat these guys. Golden State would have been going to the freaking conference finals as Steph didn't get hurt in this series. I don't know if you guys felt that. That's what I felt like watching this thing today. For the record, they still might.

Yeah. This is where I'm at. Like, it seems fully viable that Golden State could steal this series. It also seems fully viable just that the wolves could end up in the NBA finals. I'm not ruling either. I would come out. And I think this is the power of aunt is that we're offering all this

like, I was a constructive criticism. These are the gaps between him and the absolute peak top three kinds of players in the world. That's the stratosphere he's trying to reach and I think could reach. And for minutes at a time, for quarters at a time, he does it. The question is always going to be can he do it consistently?

Can he do it against the best playoff defenses and Gold State is one of, if not the best playoff defense? And can you do it as the matchups are changing and evolving right under your feet as you're going from series to series as you're having to rewrite your patterns and your recognition in real time how do you respond to all that stuff and he's learning how to do it and it's messy and sometimes it's frustrating to watch sometimes there's nothing like it and it's absolutely like incandescent basketball and so we have enough of that

anthony edwards that i'm not ruling anything out for this wolf's team it's a real nice parallel though to the other series in the west because it is two teams struggling to meet the moment when we expected that moment to be right now versus two teams that have just like the championship medal and all of the muscle memory for executing in high leverage situations that they're just like they're just winning games purely based off of that they just know what they're doing and they're executing and the other two teams are struggling mildly with that uh anything else with this one rob did you like the trace jackson davis ceremonial start for 10 minutes i did do we want to talk about his beard uh yeah he's going for something also that he's going for

I mean, look, Trace Jackson Davis, I've always been a fan. I know he gets the yip sometimes. I know he's not the stoutest defensive presence. I understand why ultimately he gets played out of a game like this. I still like the skill set. And I like the fact that he vanished from the rotation for like three months, came back with the beard, is evil Trace Jackson Davis now. It is at least making some kind of mark on this series.

I thought he earned a look based on how he played in game two. It's just you really get a sense of why Golden State has to scrap through as many minutes as they do just to find any kind of scoring at all, like some of these lineups, especially the ones where Jimmy is off the floor and they'll have Draymond and Gary Payton on the floor together. And it's like, there's just no room to do anything.

And it is another thing. Like when the end result of a play is a Gary Payton part two, corner three, it just like it just feels weird when that's the end point of a play, right? Like for whatever reason, when it's Steph doing it after he draws, three, it feels like the right thing to do. But like, I don't know, under like these circumstances, even though like logically you're

like, these are kind of the best looks these guys can generate. It just feels so much nastier. But when steps not like involved in generating those shots for them, man. I just want to say, I think we need to adopt part two for all the seconds and juniors going for. Gary Payton, colon, end game. He has the two Roman numerals on it. That's why I am.

It's the sequel. Yeah, it just feels like with Steph out, Kerr is feeling himself and being able to explore the wonders of his depth chart. Oh, this is what he's been dying to do. He's so happy he gets to do this. I can't think of a single other team that just yo-yo's guys around like that. I feel like a lot of these guys should be calling Jason Tatum just to like,

just commiserate because they now would have liked now. Fandals turning your bats into bigger wins. with a parley profit boost. That's right. Build a same game parlay or parlay and you can boost your winnings by 30% with a profit boost. You pick the teams, players, stats,

all of it. Fandle just adds a little fuel to the fire. We're looking at Sunday's slate in the NBA playoffs. I'm looking specifically at this Cavs Pacers line. Cavs minus five. I'm a little worried

because the Cavs played so well in that game three, just blew the Pacers off the court in that one that like, I don't know if everything's going to go perfectly for them. But if they have their full team, I like what they did defensively. I also like the offensive punch. And so if they're playing the half court more, they have the ability to leverage their defense. And so just give me the Cavs minus five, even if it is an indie. Hal Burton's dad isn't going to be there. So maybe that swings things in the Cavs direction. So give me Cavs minus five on Sunday in game four. And whether you're betting three-pointers, home runs, goals, or birdies.

Fandual's got markets across every sport and every game. And the best part, when you win, you'll get paid instantly. So go check it out. Fan duels where your parlay gets paid even bigger. Head to fandle.com slash ringer NBA to get started, Fandual America's number one sports book. Must be 20 plus and present in select states or 18 plus and present in D.C. Optin required.

Bonus issued as non-witrable profit boost tokens. Restrictions apply, including any token expiration, and max wager amount. See terms at sportsbook. Fandul.com. Gambling problem, call 1,800 gambler or visit RG dash help.

com. Speaking of Jason Tatum, let's get to the Tatum Tim's game here because that was the other one on the docket. Some of the most hype I've seen for a game

in a very long time. We heard about the ticket prices all get in there. Celebrity role was so filled out. We couldn't even get like a former Sopranos person there. No Bobby Bacelot. I didn't even see it.

Falco though. She must be not in town, but Brett Tisholomey level. I was about to say, shout out to group chat listener Timothy Shalame. He's really showing up for us. That's right. But the Celtics also showed up in this game finally and kind of left no doubt. Was it seemed like it was easier than it had been before. Yeah. I mean, they played like the team. Again, I thought they should have played like this in game too, but they played like

their season was on the line. The New York makes offensive. has not been good this entire series and game three was no exception to that. And we could get to that at some point. But I thought the defense, they were super locked in and offensively it's like, bro, they took 19... This game

was over by halftime. They took 19 threes at halftime. That's fine. Nobody's telling you to never shoot threes again. But when you take 60 in a game, it's kind of ridiculous against the team that you're obviously better than, obviously

have a lot of size advantages against. Like, they were just more well-balanced in their diet. And the other thing that I thought about, too, is I think that in the media or as fans, like we like to build up these narratives and, like, you know, Jason Tater faced adversity. And he responded. And, you know, we like to think that a lot of these responses

are like LeBron Game 6 against the Boston Celtics in 2012. When it's reality, it's just this. 22, 24 points, like mediocre efficiency. But the team dominated because that's the nature of this team. This team doesn't win because Jason Tatum drops 40.

Like they're just way more well-balanced team than that. Like it was never going to be on Jason Tatum to be, you know, some insane like drop 40, triple double, blah, blah, blah. Like basically like LeBron

in Cleveland, right? Like that was never going to be how the Celtics would dominate this series or win this game. But it's just funny that we could build ourselves up into thinking that that's what this game was leading to. And ultimately it was like, it was a nice Jason Tatum performance.

Not bad, but it wasn't like, we're not going to be telling our grandkids, like putting them on our lap and like, kid, Tatum and 25 against the Knicks at the Garden, kid. He showed up in Tim's. He had 22, 9 and 7. It was fine. That's the thing that he's very rarely, if ever, bad.

Like Jason Tatum has very few bad games. He's always quite good to sometimes very good to sometimes great. They don't always need great. And in this case, it's more like, you know, ultimately they've got five different guys with 15 points. That's why the Celtics win. The defense is, as you said, was smothering and particularly smothering in a way where, you know, Jalen Brunson got cooking in the second half a little bit. Those were, like, he had a hard night of shot creation, like hard night generating room to do anything.

And OG and Mikhail combined just like did not have any. offense going. And that's where you see the discrepancy here is like the Celtics can get by with a fine Jason Tatum game because they have this diversity of opportunity. And they only have that diversity of the opportunity if they're not settling for as many threes. To me, it's less about the number and honestly, even less about the end point. It's less about the three versus the two than it is like, what is the balance of your offense? Right. And in this game, you got Jalen Brown driving like hell coming into the first half. And I thought it was such a dedicated attacker of the basket in a way that's really important.

You had more cutting. You had free throws in the first half as a result of those things. You had more fast break points than you did in game two. You even had like, you know, they would have Tatum with holiday screening for him as the basically like a fake big rolling into the short roll spraying out passes. Like, guess what? That's real diversity. That's actual offense.

And that's the fucking ball game. Like, if they do that stuff, they win. And if they don't, then they're going to give the Knicks a chance in every game, whether it's to come back or otherwise. It's the type of DEI could get behind, Rob. Well, I'll try to pick it up from there. I definitely think that the Celtics showed up for this one right from the jump. The defense was on another level.

Also, it felt like Missoula was ready to cut the shit, including his rotation. Like, they were virtually down to seven plus where the cornet minutes as the eighth person was kind of just like, I think he was like 10 or so there. It was like, it was really everything you can get out of Porzingis plus Peyton Pritchard, who was on another. level in this game. Richard was great. On the Cornett Porzengis front, I'm just at the point where I'm not so convinced those shouldn't just all be Luke Cornett minutes. I mean, KP has not looked good. And he had moments of rim protection and shot blocking that ultimately paid off down the stretch. Like, I understand why he's out there. He's a different kind of threat. And you need him down the line in a way that you're not going to rely on Luke Cornett. But just so we're all clear about what's

happening like today, Luke Cornett is playing more impactful minutes today than Chris, that's Porzingis is. And if this were a different kind of series, and maybe it will be that kind of series, maybe that will become an actual tension point. I'm just like looking at those minutes and I'm looking at KP settling for shots and I'm looking at him,

looking lost navigating the floor. And I'm just like, I don't know what he's bringing to this team on this run. I just don't know. Do you know what's wrong yet? Does he have like Wasplagus or something? A mystery virus that has not been identified.

And they said it was three months ago. Wasn't it like March or something that the virus? actually happened? Who knows, man? Like, I seen Shams try to, like, report on it, but he didn't have anything. You just like, yeah, it's just, he's been dealing with it for a few months, and they don't know what to do. They're trying everything they can. All right. It's just begging for a last of us joke here. God damn. You know I can't say quadriceps.

God damn it. Corticeps. You're saying, like, some kind of fungus is operating KP's limbs and just running him around out there. I mean, but at the same time, they won the, one that's, They won a championship basically without him last year. I mean, well, the bulk of the run he was a part of, it was just at the end they had to get over the final hump without him. And they can, they can do that. Well, also coming off the bench there was Pritchard, who should we talk about?

I had him in my notes last game and we didn't get around to it just because we were doing too much Schadenfreude, unfortunately, for the Celtics. He kind of like he had a couple shots late that I thought they need. And you kind of carried over that effect into this game. We almost had like a Brunson effect where he's just such a good shot maker and he's so good at breaking from what they have in order to get there. It just seemed like they needed someone like him, like just a classic six man type to break free from the beautiful ball movement and getting into the three point mess in order to make a difference there. As he just, oh, God, Watson. As long as he's taking spot ups, I'm good with it.

Like, I don't need him doing the Jason Tatum or Jalen Brown stepbacks. but like if he's at the end of some crisp ball movement, man, like he's one of the guys that I'm like, as soon as you catch it, you should be firing it. And he's gotten so much better off the dribble, attacking closeouts, finishing in the paint. He didn't have any of that stuff, you know, like two years ago even. He's just like so improved with the actual ball in his hands,

like going downhill that just rounded out his game. So, so nicely, man. And so, yeah, I'm not surprised that he made some big shots today. Like, he is just a money shooter when, you know, teams are panicking in rotation. But yeah, he was a big part of them blowing this thing wide open today. I thought there was also just like a material difference in his mindset, where in the first two games, he was weirdly passive for Peyton Pritchard. When that's your role is to come in and be a gunner, to come in to attack gaps. And he would have opportunities not necessarily to take quick shots, but to like,

have a driving lane where you could either pull up for a two or go all the way to the rim potentially, that he just like passed up and would veer out to reset the offense with like eight seconds left on the shot clock. And it's like, what good is that doing anybody? Him seizing those opportunities that that was really important. Like they need the balance that he's bringing to their offense. Unfortunately, he's probably like the biggest target that Jalen Brunson has on the floor. And you can see the sort of like relief in Brunson's execution and shot making when he has

Pritchard on him, which is a totally different thing than anybody else. So there's some tradeoffs there. but Boston needs him to score that way. They just need him to push because ultimately, like they need that ingredient to their offense to bring it to balance. My Portland brother.

Is he? Really wanted, yeah, I mean, he's from Portland. From Portland, went to, Oregon.

That's right. Doug. Yeah. Felt like I was going to go forage some Swiss chard and just like spin around my head like a helicopter. Have you done much foraging?

No, but people love doing it with mushrooms. I'm just out here just trying to grow Brussels sprouts, man. They're growing. I just need them to keep going. What else are you growing back there? Do you want to get into this? Because I can go to 50 minutes.

So we started with Brussels sprouts. And I was like, that's it. Because I just wanted to make sure I could do something easy. And for a while, I was a little touch and go. But we're like arms length at this point. So we're feeling good right now. Are they easy? Because that's quite a dramatic looking plant, the Brussels sprout.

I think because they're more cold tolerant, you could start them earlier and they're a little bit less finicky with the changes in environment. Okay. So it's a Jason Tatum type plant. A little bit. That's right. You can build an offense around it. And I have because I've expanded out to a couple tomatoes. We got some peppers.

And now this weekend a couple days ago, we also added some corn. We got some like leafy greens. I basically got it. I got a taste of success and I just kind of rolled with it. Yeah. And my neighbor, you're a corn husker? I'm a corn guy. Yeah.

But only two. So I can't really do a full on maze, but maybe next year, you know, the whole backyard might be just all in the design. Wait, you're growing two individual ears of corn? Well, two stocks, yeah. Fast. Okay. I mean, I guess we're going to have to keep posted on the results. I literally thought he was going to say he got like the basil plant from the supermarket and plant.

but this guy's like got an entire farm back there. I'm at the nursery multiple times a week. In fact, Jay Kyle man called me and I was going there and I was like, dude, this is what I do in my free time just to like get away from it all. Hands are in the dirt guys. Yeah. Farmer Justin.

Just crushing it. He needs some sprouts in the Portland area. I'm your guy. Anyway, back to the basketball game. Well, Rob, you kind of called it before the game.

You were like, oh, I can't wait for Joe Missoula to write this off as just like variance with three-pointers. He actually shied away from that. I was surprised. He didn't take the bait. He actually was like, no, actually it was more about

live ball turnovers and finishing quarters. That's all we talked about for the last 72 hours. You're surprised. I respect that. I respect him not taking that particular bait. Because I would say like, ultimately you watch this game.

This is Boston winning their way. There's no doubt about it. I just think that this game better embodied what it means to play their way than games one and two did, which were at times like a caricature. of the Celtics actual style. And Joe Missoula, for better or worse,

has a little bit of like Mike Boodenholzer to him. He is not a radically transformative, adaptive mid-series type of coach. He's much more of a... The type was a very specific idea of what he thinks smart basketball is and he believes in it and he coaches to it

and he'll tailor strategies to it. And of course, I'm not saying he doesn't make any moves or adjustments at all, but he's not going to be warded off by some bad shooting nights. He's going to fine-tune. He's going to bring. the offense into a healthier place by adjusting here and there, trimming out some bits and pieces,

some bibs and bobs, but ultimately, like, this is who they are. They're going to be shooting threes. They're going to be gunning for this kind of offense. They just need the other stuff, too. Can I say something about the Knicks offense, man? We must. I hope one day they realize that they should run stuff for Carl Towns. You're $60 million player.

Everything he does on offense is self-generated. they're not running any sets specifically to set up Carl Towns at a spot he really likes or to get Carl Towns a mismatch or to like get Carl Towns on the move or like they don't do anything for him. It's just like here's the ball, Carl, figure it out against one of the best defenses in the league by yourself. Like it's really frustrating to watch. I get it.

Defenses have decided, especially the Celtics, they're like, you know what? We're just going to switch all Horford onto Jalen Brunson and live with the. the results. So it mutes the impact of the pick and pop. But that doesn't mean there aren't other ways to get your dynamic, offensive weapon involved. And they do none of it, dude, like nothing. And it's really frustrating to watch.

Very occasionally, they'll do like a cross screen in the post to set him up. That's about as complex as it gets. And it's like, even that's not bad. You know, even that's like the first play we put in in C. Y.O basketball in seventh grade, by the way. pretty straightforward. And for someone like Carl Town,

sometimes is enough to get him a second of advantage, a nice matchup, a turnaround bucket, whatever it is. But you're right. Like there's always so much low-hanging fruit with the Knicks. Where it's like, why don't you do this? Why don't you do that? Whether it's pick and roll, whether it's setting up towns,

whether it's like feeding into anything resembling preamble offense, rather than just give it to someone, usually Jalen Brunson, and make them do something. You have more at your disposal than this. Yeah. Are we sure Carl is, fully healthy. No, we're not. Because he finally made a three for the first time since game five

of the Piston series. I believe he's taken eight since. Yeah, I think he had one and one in the first two games of the series and then he took a bunch of this year. This game, he was one for five. He also dodged a question when asked directly if he has a broken bone in his hand, which I thought was fairly curious. Who could possibly relate? You know, me and Cad just on incredibly similar wavelengths this time of year, apparently. Yeah, but, and you guys are both playing through that. You guys are both playoff Titans. We're fighting through it. Although, like,

isn't, correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like the hand that I see him grabbing during the game is his left hand. It could be. Yeah, I don't know how much they're related, but it does feel like he is playing through something. First, he's definitely playing through something. I think the three point volume is interesting, and it's not a coincidence that all

of a sudden the Knicks, like, can't hit threes. Like, you look at their team numbers and they just have putrid percentages in these games. Some of it's like their best three-point shooter, Carl Anthony Towns, is not taking them that often. Like this was the first game. He actually even attempted really many threes at all in any one of these games. That's a hopefully positive development for the Knicks. I think some of that comes from him rightly and understandably trying to flex more inside. Like he's trying to play inside and play bigger. And that's coming at the expense of some of the three-point attempts. But they, again,

this is another area where the Knicks have to walk the line there. Like they have to have him on the perimeter space the floor sometimes. They have to have them on the perimeter space the floor sometimes. have to actually be leveraging one of the best shooting bigs who's ever lived without just totally giving up the farm well you know reasonable minds including me and cats can disagree yeah that's where it almost feels like they need towns to do both and so if he's diverting his attention toward the post and trying to optimize him in that way like who's picking up the slack from there and that's where i start to point the finger at bridges oftentimes not necessarily in this game but ojiannobie is there's a complete nothing offensively.

It's just like if those guys are going to be critical core four members that are making this amount of money, like there's only so much you can get away with without having to produce offense. It can't just be Brunson pivoting his way to follow line. It can't just be cat. There's got to be more than that. Big man and three point stuff. Yeah.

Um, question guys. What do you got for this series? I personally think the Celtics are going to win this in six games. Um, six. Yeah. I think they're going to win the rest of the way. They've been sufficiently smacked around and just excoriated in the press. You know, everybody's just being online, everybody.

I think they're going to win the next three. They are just so suited to guarding the Knicks, to scoring on the Nix. Like, they are just so perfectly, like, in terms of personnel-wise, like, they're just NICs killers, you know. And nothing I've seen for the first three games has dissuaded me of that notion. I think the Celtics should win. As we talked about last time, I also thought they should have won the first two games.

So it's like, what can you do with that? I think they will win. Six may be steep at this point. It may take them seven to get there. Just because, you know, look, the Knicks have some magic in them, clearly. Like they have the ability to gut out some of these games.

And Boston, although they came to this one with the requisite level of focus, does not always, at least in terms of like half to half and quarter to quarter bring that level of focus. So who knows what could happen. But I do expect the Celtics to survive. I just, I think they have ultimately too much and you look up and down this Knicks roster and you do see how slim the margin for error is here.

Like if OG and McHale aren't producing, they lose. Like they just don't have it. There aren't enough guys coming off the bench who are going to give you points. We saw Mitchell Robinson. Again, like the whole saga continues. Not great.

March to the line. Yeah, we have precious to chew a minute kind of with and in place of Mitchell Robinson at various points. So it's like they're just like Tom Tibido's trying to plug holes in this rotation, but there's not a lot to work with beyond that core group. That's always a sign of

like a wounded team when we're trying stuff that we haven't seen before and you start seeing even the beat riders be like we've only seen this for 17 minutes in the regular season and all of a sudden it's a playoff combination they're trying out. And so I agree with you guys. I would predict that like the Celtics win probably in

the thing that you have to worry about is this team constantly like allows Porzingis to be basically the zone buster for a lot of what they're doing and they rely on him to be that kind of stopgap and whether they don't necessarily for White or Holiday who typically get what they're going to get offensively in the flow of off of what of J.B. and Tatum and Porzingis do and if he's hobbled, it just throws them off and we've seen how much this team can spin out of control when just like one of its like five legs just like isn't quite right. And so I think they are going to drop one of these games, but you're right.

Just like, have we seen a good Knicks offensive performance at this point outside of like the final five minutes of crunch time when they just like make things happen? That's what they need. So, yeah. It's a tough ask. Yeah. I should mention that I also have strawberries and raspberries going, just enough of life. Okay. Yeah.

I think you're going to need to produce on this video podcast proof of some of these gardening efforts at some point. You know, if anything comes to bear here during the playoffs, I think you've got to be. bring the goods. A little YouTube short, just walk through my garden. Please. Don't tell me. Sponsored by Home Depot. Let's go. Um, you're gardening, the YouTube channel coming your way soon. Splinter channel. There you go. Um, all right, before we get out of here, we want to do a little bit of canvassing of the rest of the playoffs. I believe every series now is 2-1 in the second round. And so it's it's good time to reflect. Take a bigger picture look at where we are basically at the house. halfway point home until we get to the finals.

And so we're going to look at our playoff MVP ballots at this point. All right. One through five, we all came to the table here. I kind of want to go first with my number one because I think I'm going to veer from where you guys are. Of course you are. But I'm staying in the same city because I have Aaron Gordon. Wow.

as your playoff MVP. As the MVP of the playoff thus far as he continues to anoint himself as the modern day Robert ori. Yeah. Just first of all,

he's won two games in the playoffs, one with a miracle dunk, the other with the three against the thunder, then hits the game tying shot against the thunder the other night. Yep. And that's on top of just like all the other things that he's contributing here.

One, just like the, the perfect cutting off of Yokish, the physicality defensively that rounds out this team and kind of makes them as special as they have been since he's been there. He is kind of like the unsung hero underneath Yokish's shadow. I also think like quietly has become one of the best three-point shooters in the NBA. It's insane. It's really great. That shot last night to tie the game was a movement three-pointer.

This dude freaking ran off of a screen or got. lost throughout the course of running, sprinting to the corner, catches and shoots it and catches it to tie the game and send it to overtime. That's insane. This guy couldn't shoot for shit in Orlando. He was horrible. That's a career power forward who has turned himself into a hop shooter. I don't even know how the fuck you do that.

Like if you look at his footwork, genuinely insane for a player his size. He's 5041.91 in the playoffs. And he wasn't too far off from 5049 in the regular season. 91% of his free throws. That's insane. We have Michael Porter Jr. essentially from the three point arc, but one of the best offensive rebounders at his position in the league.

It's just like the combination of brute force and now finesse that we all kind of like dreamed about when he was playing the three in Orlando. Like it kind of is kind of happening here. And so I think that plus the execution in big moments. He's my number one. Aaron Gordon's amazing. Hold on. We need Justin to explain to us what MVP means.

It's a ridiculous pig, but it's fine. Gilles and Brown one last year. He wasn't necessarily the best player. He just, like, came up in the most moments. Also, he said Aaron Gordon was unsung as if Rob Mahoney ain't been writing Aaron Gordon profiles like a king. Come on now. We've been singing this man's phrases for years.

Tell him. I forgot to tab that in my RSS fee, I guess. It's tough. But you guys didn't know. Don't have him. I mean, Aaron Gorn's been amazing. Yeah.

You don't have it on the ballot. I don't have on the ballot. No, he's not on my ballot. For me, it's top down, who are the best players in these playoffs?

Yeah. I just think like he's come up with the biggest moments. Amazing. Of this playoffs. And he's also been more consistent than I assume the guy that you probably have a number one.

Yeah. I think nobody's honestly, why I like this discussion is nobody's been consistently dominant. If we can barrier this thing and leave our top tier empty, I think number one should be vacant, to be totally honest with you. No one has been consistently dominant enough to be the definitive MVP, but if we're going to pick somebody.

Yeah, I'm picking Nicole Yolkich for sure. And like my ballet goes, the way I looked at it is like, who have I seen be the most impactful throughout the course of the playoffs so far? And so that's why it's Yolkid, Shea, Anthony Edwards, Steph Curry, and Tyrese Halliburton. Look at you. Look at you. I love Brunson. I love you.

You've been heroic in the fourth. But even in some of those games, you had horrific stats throughout the first three-quarter. Can you repeat your five for me, Wazza? Yon, Shay, Aunt Edwards, Steph, and Tyrese Halliburton. You know what's fascinating about this? I want to hear your 2 through 5 as well, Justin. My number two is just like not on your list. And that's Donovan Mitchell.

Yeah. He's been excellent. Unreal. He's been excellent. Let's talk about Yokish for one second, though, just because, I mean, coming off of one of the worst shooting playoff games, maybe he's ever had. Like, I've just never seen him miss that many and those specific shots before. All that stuff is valid. You turn it over, I think, eight times in that game while he was at it.

Not a good Yokich game. Still one where. the Nuggets won his 44 minutes and won the game basically in part because of everything he creates. I also think as far as this stuff goes, if we're talking playoff MVP, there's who has played the highest consistent

level across all the games that they've played, which if that's the criteria, maybe Yonis is the playoff MVP, and he already went out. But some games matter more than others, and I'm going to be honest with you, 42, 22, and 6 from Yokic in game one, while marching his team to a win

against the best team in basketball, that game matters more than other games. And I'm not saying that the blowout that followed it didn't come at a cost. I'm not saying his inefficiency in game three didn't come at a cost. I'm just saying like that game one was as impressive a performance

as I think any player has played in this postseason. And to me, all the things that Murray's able to do on offense that everybody on the nuggets are able to do is flowing through Yokic's gravity and presence. Like, even when he's not scoring as efficiently as we've become accustomed to, he is the person the defense is keying in on. Like, he's the number one key, even when he's not getting the buckets on a regular basis. So to me, he's still number one.

And it's like, you know, OKC, you know, everybody, the 96 Bulls, the future champions, according to my podcast, co-holes, you know, like, he's doing this against the. best defense in the NBA and like, man, like this, it looks hard. It looks really difficult. So shot of manufacture offense against this damn defense and he's doing it. Do the bonuses hit your guys bank accounts immediately after we finish the pods or does the direct deposit take a couple of things? I don't know what to tell you. Nicole Yokic is pretty fucking good.

Yeah. Like, even in the games where he's not hitting a lot of shots, like he still has a massive impact on the game. I think he's been pretty awful the past two games. I probably was awful last night. I mean, he missed a lot of shots for sure. Where are we set in the bar?

Like, yeah, awful for the standard that he said. He had five points, eight turnovers. Like, he missed virtually everything, especially as the game went along.

He was also minus 36 in the game where they got absolutely godsmacked. Yep. In game two, like he basically spiraled out. It almost seemed like he, he followed out intentionally just because he could not take it to be on the court any longer.

I think if you're going to make the case for Yokk, which isn't the first round, is that he was consistently just the most dominant guy in a series that they probably should have lost. Like, the margins were constantly tilting. And that's ultimately why I went with Gordon because he was the one that pushed him over the top. But you want to give Yokish more credit for being the driving force of everything that they're

doing. Also being like a pretty impactful defender just by parking himself in the paint. Like their whole defensive approach against the thunder, for instance, is like, we're going to pack the paint and force you to either manipulate your way to the Lineshay or somebody else to beat them in the two games that they've lost. Like they haven't been able to hit shots or they haven't been able to beat them. So I have Yokic too because I'm fair and balanced. And I do ultimately appreciate Nicola Yokish.

I just think Gordon has just had way more moments and I appreciate the moments. Look, we will never be mad about shining a light on Aaron Gord on this podcast. Even if it has not been just such a contrivance to do. I love the guy. And the other thing that I love about this Aaron Gordon pick is like he's like seems to in a state of Zen. Like, if you go and watch, like, his postgame interviews after all of the crazy games he's having, he's just like, I don't even know, like, how to describe.

He's just like, yeah, man, we're just trying to make the right play. Like, we're just trying to take a possession at a time. And, like, he is so even kill right and on task. It's just amazing. I mean, it's a fun player, man. Yeah. Considering just, like, the family stuff that he's gone through of late, the fact that he has found that like special place is remarkable. He's,

he's been unbelievable. He's like, he's the exact winning player that you would want around every superstar. And like somehow he's gotten better at that since they won the finals. That's incredible. I know. Really just an insane run that he's been on. Like, we can't say enough about it. Yeah. So my ballot one through five is Gordon and I have Yokic at two. I have Jalen Brunson at three just because the numbers are just fucking incredible, including the clutch numbers. He actually has 41 total clutch points.

in these playoffs and that's 20 more than second best which is Gordon in towns. So that's pretty nuts. Gordon also second on it list just to just to buoy his case a little bit more. Then I have Mitchell and then I have Janus who despite only winning one game put forth one of the most monster fucking first rounds that I've seen in a very long time. He had virtually 13 free throws a game in that series. He did everything he could. Unfortunately, he had to play off of Ryan Rollins and Kyle Kuzma going one for 15 every year. Yeah, it was needless to say, everything that happened in that series was not his fault.

Janus played a hell of a series. He's deserving of merit here. I think what hurts him is like he didn't have the chance to go into a second round where the level of competition is up and to like prove something in the way that some other guys have. But to be honest, like nobody's case is clean. Like Yokic is we already talked about like he's had some bad games. Everyone that we'll talk about has demerits where they've had bad losses. They've had one or two kind of like real stinkers of their slate so far. makes it really hard to make up

one definitive pick as like this is the guy. I think Yokic is the closest to that. So I have Yokic, Donovan Mitchell at two. I still have after tonight, I have Ant at three. I think games like tonight are enough in addition to his first round performance to kind of pull him up. But honestly,

three and four, I have Ant and Jalen Brunson. They could be pretty interchangeable. I still have Shea at five, even coming off of a pretty brutal crunch time execution for him in terms of the way the way that things went down and him settling for shots in the way that he did, him being off balance,

him trying to bait out contact and being unsuccessful down the stretch against Denver. Tough to watch, not his best basketball, has not covered himself in glory, but it's not like he hasn't been a productive score. It's not like he hasn't shown up in these playoffs in a way that very few players have.

And so I think, like you could go Jason Tatum there. Like was, I was extremely tempted to put Steph in that spot, who I think has been like as transformative on the Warriors' offense as any player in the league has been transformative on theirs.

Even I can't go as far as Halliburton, but I respect it. Do you want to talk about that? There's like a circling back on last week. They're up to one. That's it. You got a reward the winning. You know, and he

is just so, like a lot of the stuff, you just have to be watching the sort of tenor of Indiana's offense to know that it's like, it's Halliburton. You know, like, the stuff that's giving defense is a hard time in terms of, you know, covering the amount of space these guys stretch you to, meaning 90 feet, man, like you have to be on it.

You know what I mean? I think it's Halliburton that's doing it. It's tougher with the, like, his individual numbers aren't always going to look like that. But, like, the overall, like, quality of play of the pace is, I'm not saying he's, like, carrying them, but, like, in terms of how they play, why teams have a hard time, I'm dealing with what they do is because it's Harry's Halliburton. So I wanted to, you know, up to one in a series that they were

expected to lose. You know, I wanted to reward the guy. Winning matters. I'm a winner. It has taken just a pretty impressive performance by the Cavaliers, particularly defensively, particularly with their front court where it's like Evan Mobley at the top of a zone

and Jared Allen just like looming in the paint for them like in order to disrupt them. But this is my opinion about Hallibor. It really hasn't changed when he's doing well versus when he's doing poorly. It's just like he is an engine of a system and he does that particularly well when you need him to rise above that and to make things and break things off in the way that ant for instance can do just with raw physicality and just like playmaking. It's tough. Also like, you know, the fact that he doesn't, he isn't like a particularly physical player, like leaves him

susceptible to more dings and dense. He did hers wrists in that game too. And so like those are the things against Hallibur and he has overall had a very good playoff performance. I think like the past two games, much like Yoke, it's just like haven't been the best for him. But much like I think what we're kind of outlining here is my ballot probably reflects recency bias a little bit more than your guys. There's the point where it's like I don't have Shay but he was incredible

in the first round whereas like for instance Janus hasn't had the opportunity to be bad in a second round too. I thought it was pretty good in game one too. Yeah. Even the game that they lost I thought She was damn good. Can we get some series predictions from you guys?

Hold on on the Tyreys Hallibor in front. I want to say I do, I hear what you're saying, Justin, I think overall, you're right. He can't force the issue in a way that a guy like Ant can. It's just not his game. I think Hallibrudis shown like real progress, picking out mismatches and attacking them in late game situations in these playoffs. Like guys like Jared Allen, like Brooke Lopez, like forcing those switches.

Like Yonis off the dribble for a game winner. A series clinching bucket on Yonis. Like that's a great example. Like it's not all step back threes with him anymore. And that's a kind of growth. So I think yes, he's not at aunt levels yet. But I think he is showing some improvement. Yeah, I don't want to, I don't really want to knock Haliburton because he's been very good this postseason really very good over the second half of the season as well.

It's just like if we're drawing the line in the sand between the very best players versus that next wave, Halliburton consistently does it. Like, Steph isn't going to have a four point performance. And like that is a perhaps tough bar to set with someone, but that's where we are. We're in the second round of the playoffs. We're talking MVP's. And I also look, Waz is a winner. He's making case for winners. I'm a loser.

I just think we have to make the case for Donovan Mitchell. 91 points over the last two games. And I think to me more than any player in this postseason has embodied the sort of like whatever it takes mentality that playoff basketball requires of like you don't have the luxury. Like we're talking about with Jimmy earlier of playing the way you want to play, of playing your style of, you know, Donovan Mitchell in most games is a great jumper. In some of these games, hasn't been able to hit anything outside of like 10 feet.

And he just turns into a driving machine and gets bucket after bucket after bucket and a parade to the free throw line because of it because he's like physically unstoppable in terms of preventing him from getting to the basket. And I think he's been sensational in that creative capacity, whether it's, you know, with all their guys in the lineup, whether it's been these games in which, you know, Mowgli is out, Garland is out and Garland is back, but looking kind of like a shell of himself currently, like not fully operational yet. I think Donovan Mitchell's been exceptional in all of those capacities.

And to this point, he and Brunson are tied for the most 30 point games in these playoffs. And it feels like it. It feels like Donovan Mitchell is putting up 30 every night. Yeah, 48 and 43 over his past two. Just like a real visceral like stamp on the game, the past two games in a way that you want from your best player. And like, honestly, now that the rest of the team is clicking into place, guys are coming back from injury. You're starting to see the calves look like themselves again in Mitchell in particular. We should probably, if we want to talk about forecasting, we should talk about that series.

I'm starting to worry about the Pacers now. Like, I definitely think they have the upper hand. But if the calves are going to be fully operational and play like, like this, especially defensively, as I mentioned, with just the synergy Mobley and Allen are shown out there. It's like, that's like, that's another level. I can't imagine another team replicating that amount of just length and rim protection and just overall complications that they could throw out at an offense.

Jenny Hekison putting Evan Mobley at the top of a one two two zone or three two zone, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, it was crazy. Is insane. It's so terrifying, bro. Like these guys couldn't do any. thing while he was over there. And of course they got Jared Allen back there,

you know, basically gobbling anything up that gets to the paint. I just thought that was just a brilliant plan to deploy. And obviously the kryptonite to the play spaces is making them play slower, making them play more methodically deliberate in the half court.

That's not their strength. You know, they want to get up fast shots. They want to get up quickly. And the cabs forcing them to sort of, you know, do a knife fight in the mud. was just brilliant on Kenny Atkins's point and Evan Mobley coming back and, you know,

playing like a defensive player of the year was just huge in that game. That's one thing I might expect to change. If I had to guess what's going to, like how, you know, the next game might differ from this one, it would be the Pacer's reaction to that zone because I would say,

if you look over the last, I don't know, 15 years of NBA basketball, Rick Carlisle teams are as, like, consistently good and creative against zone defenses as basically any team out there. Like he has his teams usually quite prepared for this stuff. For whatever reason, they were a bunch of deer in the headlights. A pack of deer? A herd of deer.

It's got to be heard, right? Yeah. That's their G league team, the herd. Well, the Bucks. The Bucks's G league team is the herd. Oh, 100%. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah.

Yeah, we're on this. We're all on the same page. We're all deer hunters. Yeah, we're big buck hunters. So I do think that Indiana will be ultimately better suited to attacking that zone. And you could see them find some ways to get around it a little bit, attacking more from the wings. But it is so smart stacking the top of the floor like that against Indiana because they do want to run everything from the top. They want high pick and roll.

They want that handoff game. And if you're making OB Topin and Pascal Siakum attack from the wing as kind of the entry point to the offense, That's, it's really counterintuitive and runs counter to everything that the Pacers are about. Yeah, it even seemed like the Pacers as they went along in that game. The Cavs almost forced them out of that zone. And so maybe they even figured it out as it went along. But I just feel like they're tapping into the flexibility and versatility with Mobley in a way that you almost wonder like what else can they cook up with? Like a couple of years ago, we were talking about two bigs basically using that to sell out against rim protection in order to choose.

whether or not you're going to stop the three-pointer or at the basket. And that's why we saw guys like Robert Williams start to pop. The Cavs in particular did that as well. Now we're at the point where one of those centers is guarding the perimeter while the other one lurks in a traditional center spot. It's just like my mind is kind of warped at like what we're able to do. It harkens back to the conversation we were having last pot about like defenses becoming more sophisticated because the players are just so goddamn impressive physically and just like what they're capable of doing. So, yeah, I would say calves, probably in seven, but it can go anyway. The calves are the better team.

I think like, like clearly so when they have their guys. So if these guys can stay reasonably healthy, I know we say Garland doesn't look like himself, but like just having him out there and not forcing, you know, your bench guys to have to step up in that way is huge. So I think they're going to ultimately pull that out Obviously I think the Celtics will do the same I think the thunder Will come back to probably eke out this series But this shit's gonna be hard man

I told y'all this shit ain't gonna be easy for these kids But it's right there for them to win Like the nugget like bro The amount of minutes these guys are playing The insanely timely shots and like bro, they are giving it everything in order to scratch out these victories. And so, you know, the young guys just got to play more in transition. Like, stop playing at half court.

Y'all got to get back to that game too, forcing turnovers, playing in space. Because half court is not your strength, even against the Nuggets defense that nobody had any respect for coming into the playoffs. And like the Thunder just straight up struggling against these guys. in big spots. But I just feel like they just have so much more. And even when it is not working, it's ultimately, it's like wide open jumpers for NBA players, man.

I think they'll eventually get that done. Who else we got yet? And the wolves, like I said, I don't think Steph's coming back. The wolves are winning that series. I think the Thunder Roll win too. Yeah, I agree with you on the wolves. It's just hard to anticipate without Steph

how they're going to find enough scoring at all. over the course of this series. I think, and we already talked about the Celtics, I think the Cavs Pacers are where I do think the early struggles are going to catch up to somebody. I think the Cavs could have survived giving up one of those first two, but giving up both, I think is really going to come back to Biden. And I think the Pacers are going to feel.

I'm flipping. Coming in, I was on Team Cavs after, I mean, after 02, I think this is one where I don't think these teams are that far apart. Corn Boys, stand up. Yeah, are you an honorary. corn boy now? Maybe. Maybe I could provide the luncheon, you know, for you guys,

for your meetings. The Thunderman, this fucking team. It's just, I have no faith that they're going to do that, even though everything like logically is suggesting that they should win this series. The flip-flop between struggling

against a team without Yokic in order to like to get past them versus just blowing them out by historic margin. is just like the flip-flopping is just like kind of racking my brain in a way that like I feel like I have CTE at this point.

I would guess that they'll win the series because I feel like the nuggets lose a limb virtually every game. Yes. Porter's like I should be out four to six weeks. It looks like Yokic is wearing two arm sleeves and I don't think this is like a fashion move. People are saying this. He's got an elbow issue.

Oh, yeah. And so like they shouldn't win this series. But we were saying that against the clippers and they still won. So I wouldn't be surprised if the Nuggets dig this out, but the thunder, I guess I would predict them to win.

Let's just say seven. They deserve some benefit of the doubt. Even in this game, yeah, they didn't have it down the stretch. I thought they squandered an opportunity to put that game away. J-Dub was awesome. Like, they had enough guys

who were having awesome individual games. I just thought at the end, they, not unlike the Celtics, during some of their game one and two struggles, like oversimplified. It was way too much strictly isolation, and maybe one pass away if you're lucky kind of offense.

That's not who the Thunder always are. They can win that way and they certainly do play that way sometimes, but they're at their best when they're more dynamic than that. The piss your pants factor. Just, whew, off the charts with this team.

I still don't know what we're measuring. Whether a team will piss their pants in a high leverage situation. So it's not us pissing our pants watching them. It's them pissing their pants on national television. So if you go to basketball, reference right now and you look up PPR, which is after working

with the marketing arm of the ringer, we've decided that's what we'll narrow it down to. PPR. You will find Jay Gellis, Alexander's PPR, Chet Holmgren's, Nickley-Ochish. Those are quite high relative to the

biggest. Those are historic at this point, whereas like a Yokic, like, we're in the negatives because they got to find it in this series. They're a young team, but they got to find it. They got to pull it out. Like, there's no way they can look at this last game and think that it wasn't there for them to have. They didn't get their asses handed to them. Like, they just straight up got out executed by an older, more experienced squad. And, you know, unfortunately for them, this is, this is,

this is baptism by fire, man. Like, it's time. All right. We should wrap it up. I've got a garden to attend to. Pour some fertilizer. Yeah. We'll be back. Wednesday? Yeah. Wednesday. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll talk to you next time. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus in present in D.C. Gambling problem.

Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Call 1-88-88-889-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline, ma.org. 800 327 50-50 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-8-7-8 Hope NY or text Hope NY in New York.