The Ringer NBA Show - Chaos in Cleveland With Jonathan Tjarks (Ep. 134)

Episode Date: July 25, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Jonathan Tjarks discuss the possibility that Kyrie Irving is traded (8:00), the impact of David Griffin's departure (20:00), Eric Bledsoe's defensive upside (28:00), reasons Carmelo Anthony doesn't make sense as a one-year rental (34:00), and LeBron's rebuttal on Twitter (41:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon, and joining me on this Tuesday is Jonathan Charks. Jonathan Charks from the ringer.com. What up, Charks? What's up, man? How you doing? You've gotten a lot of attention over the last couple of weeks, as I unveiled to everyone after meeting you for the first time in Las Vegas, Nevada, that you are seven feet tall.

What does it feel like to be known as one of the tallest media members in the world? Well, you know, in comparison to Chris, I guess. Chris, you know, everyone looks really tall. How dare you? And how dare you say in comparison to Chris? You're talking to me. What is that? Is that second person?

How does that go? No, it just came to me. And I said, I asked you the very important question. How did you get so tall? And you said, my father? It's your dad a giant. He's six four or two. Was he a basketball player?

In high school, he claims to have set like the record in Nebraska for most free throws made, like consecutively. I was like, that's very impressive, dad. Wait, he claims, your father claims to have the Nebraska record. What's what he told me when I was younger? I said, okay, I mean, why would you make that up, right? Have you brought it up since? He passed away a few years ago, so. Oh, no.

So that, well, is there any way to check? this? I mean, why, why, right? Let's just have that in my head as a thing. You just want that in your head? Yeah, yeah, you know. Did you brag to your other friends about this? No, this is probably the first time I ever mentioned in my life because, like, right? I wonder if you were like really small and you claim, it's funny you say that because this weekend we were riding in the car and I have a seven-year-old and I told him, I told him I invented something and he said you're not an inventor and I said yes I am and then I said I told him I invented the microwave I mean kids to believe you it's crazy I know no I have some like little nephews

and these I tell them all kinds of wild stuff and so I'm and then my and then my wife like about 10 minutes later she's like he did not invent the microwave right he's explaining to my son that I did not because I claimed to him that I invented the microwave and she's telling him that I didn't and I'm like don't listen to her. All right. I invented that thing, right? And so I do wonder, God forbid, I hope my passing isn't for a while, but that maybe like one day I'll die and then my kid, like you're saying, my father set the free throw

record in Nebraska, that my kid is going to run around telling people that his dad invented because nobody knows who invented the microwave anyway, right? So it was just something I can come up with. I sure don't. Right? Maybe it was you. Who knows? You know, but I feel like that should be a very significant.

thing, right? Like, we all learn when we're little kids. Like, if I said, who invented the cotton gin? You know who invented the cotton gin, right? I do know that. Eli Whitney. Everybody knows that. Everybody knows that. It's like buried into your head at a young age, yet nobody knows who invented the microwave. And I would say... You know what's funny? I know what the cotton gin even is. I have no idea what that is. By note, Eli Whitney invented it. It's very significant to your life, charts. You didn't know that. Is it? Yeah, it's what it's the machine that separates cotton from its seeds so that you could use cotton into, right?

Like you need Q-tips and you need shirts and you need all manner of things that have cotton. All right. He must be a very rich man. This is not what people tuned in for, but I invented the microwave and Charks' dad, who is no longer with us, is the consecutive free throw record holder in the state of Nebraska. See now one of our listeners is probably going to go like try to look that up. Don't tell me what the answer is listener. Just leave that. Let me have my illusions.

I don't even know who are famous basketball players from Nebraska because somebody could have broken it, right? See, it's not really a basketball state. That's why it's like, I don't know. They play football there, man. They don't really have time for basketball. I can't even. Do you think there are any from Nebraska? I don't know.

Yeah. There's got to be. Eric Piotowski probably, somewhere like that. Ty. Tarot. That's right. That's a good one. Tehran Lou is from Nebraska, and so maybe he broke your father's record. University of Nebraska, great, I believe.

Yeah. I was going to say Taryn, what was it, Petway? Is that the kid two years ago? Oh, yeah, the guy with the Braids. Yeah, the Braids. I liked him a lot. All right, let's get to some of the free agency stuff that has taken place over the course of the last couple of days. First things first, Derek Rose to the Cleveland Cavaliers.

We've got big Cleveland Cavaliers news that we are going to. to dissect. But first, your reaction to Rose signing a deal, I believe it was a $2.1 million deal to sign up with the Cavs. It's just him and Jeff Green together. That's quite a second unit. Like, yeah. I don't know, man.

Yeah. I'd like to think he could be good again. It's really sad to watch him now. I would tell you that yesterday when they were going through and they were saying he averaged 18 points ago, the numbers are not bad on their face. For as much as he has gotten killed, and I know it is, if his name isn't Derek Rose and he wasn't one time one of the best players in the NBA and a league MVP, I do wonder if he has viewed the same way, right? The expectations are high. If that is, if we just named him John Smith and we assigned him those numbers that he had last year, I don't know, man.

I feel like maybe people have gone a little too far on the Derek Rose hate him. I'm wrong here. He wouldn't get that many shots, though, if his name was John Smith. He wouldn't be able to hold the ball the whole game and just jack shots and not play defense. You are like, all right, man. You are really on the Derek Rose slander charks. I am. I mean, I liked him a lot when he was younger.

It sucks. It really sucks to see him now. You don't think that he will help the Cavaliers. He might as a second unit point guard. It's just will he be willing to take a smaller role on a team? I guess he has no choice now, but it'll be a big adjustment for him to come off the bench, or maybe not come off the bench. Yeah, I don't know whether you're talking all this second unit stuff.

I wouldn't want to start Derek Rose next to LeBron because I would just not guard him if I was defending the calves I'd say if Derek Rose shoot as much you want your man's to guard LeBron James do what you got to do out there Not high on Derek Rose Would you rather have him than Darren Williams Here's some slander for you

At least D. Will can shoot threes They both don't play any defense Wow I don't know that's tough They're both pretty washed You don't want either up on them Is he still there in Cleveland D Will? No, no, he's a free agent.

Okay. Right? So that's what I was saying. It was a choice to make, right? I don't know what Darren Williams is going to get. I take more Derek Rose. I'll say it. I don't care.

You know, if we're talking backups, Darren Williams is still one of the better of those. He goes to the league. You go through the league. There's not a lot of good backup point guards. Yeah, and he can play off the ball too, which is nice. And he can, like, go against bigger two guards and kind of guard them a little bit. He was good in the playoffs for this.

finals. I mean, he's bad against the Warriors, but everyone is pretty much. Yeah, but if you wanted, if you're like, if you're out there, he's not good as your starter, but amongst other backup point guards, you can do a lot worse and a lot of teams will than having Darren Williams come off to run your second unit. Yeah, I'm with you on that. And I think he's taking a smaller role now. He's accepted who he is. That thing about Rose, does Rose know who he is now? I remember those quotes last year by being a super team in New York. Like, I named my point guard to understand his role. role in the league and his role in this team. Don't you think if you sign a contract for $2.1 million in your name's Derek Rose,

you probably got a pretty good sense of where you are now? I guess that's true. That's got to be a very humbling moment for him. Right? Especially when you saw the contracts that guys like Lu Al Deng and Jo Kim Noah got last for their last contract and now you're sitting at a table signing a deal that says 2.1 million? Come on, man. Yeah, I was talking to something a day about that.

Like, if you look at these old Tom Tibido players, Dang, Ashik, Noah, Rose, like those guys got squeezed one inch their lives. They are all just completely washed now. It's kind of sad. Oh. I don't know. It doesn't make you think about it.

The mileage of it all and the... Yeah, the way, the hard driving where they play, never taking games off, playing a ton of minutes. It tends coach. It's tough. The other one that came out yesterday was Paugasaw's extension, which I'm, I was shocked by Charks. I mean, he opted out, and then I was thinking, all right, well, what's he going to get? And I thought maybe a little longer deal. So maybe

he gave up 16, but he gets an extra year and they signed him up for 20 or 24 or something like that, right? But he got three more years of what he opted out of, and he's 37 years old. And there were a lot of cases where Popovich was either screaming at him or benching him in the most high-leverage situations, I was very surprised if that was any other team but the Spurs that signed him and they kind of get the Belichekian benefit of the doubt where it's just like you figure they're doing the right thing. But if anybody else would have done that, and frankly, even though they did, I think that that contract is really goofy to me. unlike them.

Yeah, the only thing that makes sense to me is it was already done beforehand. They said, pal, we need the space this year. If you opt out, we'll give you X amount of money over Y years. And they had big plans for the cap space. It didn't work out. And they kind of had to stick to their word. This happened with, which is Richard Jefferson a few years ago in San Antonio, where he opted out and they got a big long-term deal.

That must be what happened. That's my only explanation. Just committing almost $50 million to a, 37-year-old is implausible to me. Yeah, I'd rather have Duane Deadman, straight up, than Powell at this point. I was shocked, and they have not

like, you know, I know they've been mentioned in the Kyrie stuff. The Spurs have not had some kind of good offseason. They've lost Jonathan Simmons. They lost Deadman, as you mentioned. They re-signed Patty Mills, which is fine. And so

as of right now, amongst all these teams where there was this huge arms race, they haven't been a part of it. Now, they might have something up their sleeve, but then when that was the move that was announced as a Spurs offseason move yesterday, I was like, what is going on with that? And then they signed Rudy, Rudy Gay, which I don't think is a particularly good signing, and he is a very unspurs-like player. I mean, coming off in Achilles, too. Yeah. And the record for guys that are post-30 coming off Achilles is just, I mean, it's miserable.

So I'm skeptical of that. I just, I look at this Spurs offseason and like, I don't know. They're usually the smartest guys in the room, but I don't like any of their moves, honestly. I think it seems like they're setting up for next year. They'll have a ton of space next offseason, I guess, to go out for somebody to put next to Kauai. I'm not sure either, but that's the one thing that makes sense to me. All right. So those are the two big ones yesterday.

other news that broke over the weekend is that Derek Rose, or I'm sorry, Derek Rose, John Wall signed his extension, and he got the four-year $170 million extension. There was some bit of, I don't want to say worry, but concern, like, why hasn't he signed his extension? And you wonder if the way so many things played out this offseason affected his decision? But if you're a Wizards fan, you have to feel great. because now you've locked in what is one of the, what, top three to five players in the Eastern Conference for the foreseeable future?

I mean, who else in the East would you rather have than John Wall? LeBron, for sure. Probably Janus? I think Janus has more upside, obviously. Okay, and then are we to Walden? Well, is probably better right now, though. I think Wall could be the second best, yeah. You think it might be the second best?

You'd rather have him than Kyrie. Is that right? Definitely. Yeah, definitely. And then Isaiah Thomas. I mean, I'm just trying to think of the guys that were all-stars last year. So you, in that conference, the way it is, the way things have played out, because Jimmy Butler is gone, because Paul George is gone. If we're having the discussion of the best players in the Eastern Conference, I mean, Wall's right there.

Right when you get past LeBron, I'm not sure if there's anybody you'd rather have. I think I'd rather have, Yonis, but that may be it. Yeah, I'd say that's about right. No one else really, I think, is even in the same ballpark. I think Wall's, if not two, he's three, for sure. And don't you have to wonder if you look back at the way... I guess M. Bede eventually. Yeah, M. B., for sure. Yes, M.B. can be on that list. If he's healthy.

But again, we need more than 30 games out of a guy, right? That's true. And I don't want to slander the other guy. Listen, there's some good players still around there. Lowry and DeRosen are obviously really good players. You know, Al Horford, Gordon Hayward, these are really good players. I guess you Hayward's up there now, too. Oh, for sure. I mean, he elevated, listen, if he was going to be the 15th best player in the Western Conference,

he just moved into the top five to ten in the other conference. He just got like five should all-star burst now. For sure. And probably, possibly some NBA finals appearances in the not-so-distant future. Yeah, if LeBron leaves, yeah. That's for certain. Okay, so the John Wall thing takes place. He signs up long term with Washington.

And I do think now you team that up and you have that core and it is John Wall and it is Brad Beale and it is Auto Porter because once Brooklyn made the offer to Auto Porter, they matched in Washington. If you are a Washington fan, are you down with that core? And let's just separate it. Forget. You're not a Washington fan. What do you think of their core? Because that is their core going forward, given the money that they have spent on it. John Wall, Brad Biel, Auto Porter.

Here's the thing. It's like, I like those guys. It's just the GM, I'm not sure he can maximize the rest of the roster. He gave their first for Bogdanovich last year. Now he's already gone. Can you look at it, Wal, Beal, and Porter were both top three picks. So he was basically gifted those players. other than those three guys

like what has he really done as a GM Grunwald that was what would worry me like long term I guess Ubre is okay Morris is all right I think he's okay I think you're right

Morris is pretty good Gortat's okay I feel like he's kind of slowing down though I think he got kind of exposed by Boston the playoffs last year but their bench was just miserable yeah that's the GM's job

it's like that's not hard to do get a decent bench and he could not do it to save his life so that's what would worry me about if I was a wizard's fan I like their top three, but is Grunwald good enough to maximize those guys with smart signings? I'm not sure about that. All right.

Let's say they got a different GM. Just the core. Do you like the core? I mean, it's a ton of money, but in the East, you got to do it. They're all really good players. And I'm cool with it, yeah. Okay. All right, let's get to the big story that everybody is talking about.

And that is Kyrie Irving and the story that Kyrie Irving had requested a trade. This will be our Captain Morgan moment of the week. Even though it happened a couple of weeks ago, it did not get to light until over the weekend. Kyrie Irving goes and he says he would rather be somewhere else. And there were names on his list that included San Antonio. There's teams that included the Miami Heat. And also, to many people's surprise, and I know he's even from the area,

the New York Knicks. Kyrie Irving would rather play for the New York Knicks that have to endure another year playing beside the best player in the world. And that is just the fact that Kyrie Irving would rather play for the Knicks alongside LeBron James is our Captain Morgan's moment of the week. No matter how you live like a captain, Captain Morgan, remind you to please drink responsibly, captain's orders. All right, Charks.

So the story comes out over the weekend. Brian Winhorse from ESPN says that Kyrie Irving went to the Cavaliers and requested a trade. instant reaction was what? My first thought was he must know LeBron is going to leave next year and then I heard that he wanted to leave LeBron I was like wow

that really threw I was stunned to hear that. I mean LeBron James on your team man life is good and the weird thing is now if you are Kyrie Irving and you don't want to play with him it's almost like it's the reverse of what you thought

if you thought that in a year it's almost like it a year if LeBron leaves, then you would, theoretically, get what you want, right? Yeah. Like, you would get your own team. If you think he's leaving, you don't request a trade, right? Or am I crazy? Or you just can't bear playing another year with him?

The other thing that I didn't understand, like, I wonder what is real reasoning because, like, why would you have San Antonio and Minnesota on your list if you want to be the man? If you go to Minnesota, you're not going to be the man. You're going to be probably the third option. In San Antonio, Kauai's the guy, and you're going to have your stats depressed. Pop's not going to play a ton of minutes. Like, he's going to get a lesser,

those are small markets too. That's what part I don't really understand. Is what those, the teams on his list don't really make a lot of sense for the rationale that's been given. He would on those two teams probably be the most dominant offensive player, though. You don't think so?

Well, like Jimmy Butler, remember him and Derek Rose quashed in Chicago about touches. Yeah. Butler's trying to get a max contract. from a Super Max from Minnesota. Is he really going to let Kyrie hold the ball the whole game? I really doubt it. Buller, he needs the ball.

And then Carl Townsies the ball, too. He's not going to take any less touches either. That's for sure. You got Jeff Teague there still. He wants to hold the ball. That ball is, Jamal Crawford's there. But the thing with Kyrie's master plan is, when you get the ball from underneath the backboard,

you get to choose where that ball goes. Right? Like, that is the one thing on this. He is not dependent on some. to throw him the ball unless the guy that's inbounding it underneath throws it elsewhere. You're about to see Butler and Towns just run the break themselves. I think the rebound, they're just going. Like, nah, we'll just take it up ourselves.

Right. All right. So you do see that list of teams that he would prefer to go to, but the whole idea that he just doesn't want to play with LeBron James. There's two things that are big about this. One is this whole idea that everybody, that people can understand that people can understand understand wanting to be the man that the number two guy wants to run his own show. And that's in many cases, whether it is business or whether it is, no matter what profession

you are in, many times the number two guy wants to be the number one guy. So that is not something that's outlandish, right? We want to tell everybody, just be happy being the number two guy, right? But some guys aren't wired like that. So there's that. And then the other thing is the way this whole offseason. has played out with the Cavaliers, which I think by any standard would be considered a total debacle, right?

Yeah, for sure. And I think the whole David Griffin thing, you just wonder, and I heard Wynhorst say this, which I thought was very smart, which is if he's there, maybe this doesn't happen. he can go to Kyrie and say, listen, just wait it out a year, right? Let's make peace with this. We're trying to win a title next year. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that.

And then if LeBron leaves, I'll trade you. If he doesn't leave and you want or if he doesn't leave, we'll figure these things out. But just wait a year. And it's almost like there's nobody to have that conversation with, really. And so then you have this. And the next thing you know, you might could have traded for Jimmy Butler and you might could have traded for Paul George and you might could have traded for all manner of things, maybe things on draft night.

But you never had a GM and this whole, this whole Kyrie thing. It feels like very bad timing. Yeah, just kind of like it always starts with the owner. If the owner is not on his game, everything else stems from that. I saw something they said like Gilbert has never had a GM. signed with him. Oh, really? That might be wrong.

I saw it on Twitter, so it must be true, but I've not level checked that. But that's what I saw on Twitter, so. Wow. So he is, and then he had the whole Chaunty Billups thing, which, again. Yeah, and he couldn't pay the guy's money. Right. Well, again, with the Chaunty Billis, first things first, who knows if Chaunty Billis will be a good GM or not?

We don't know. Right? We just, we just assumed he was a good point guard. He was, he's obviously a cerebral guy. But we don't know if he was. would be a good GM or not. Okay? And then, so you have that, which is not like some kind of nobody outside of people that would

really know Chauncey Billbs and have a much greater understanding of him, the man than I would, would be out there saying, what a great hire. Nobody, how do we know? We don't know. He has no track record doing a job like that. So we would know if it's a great hire. But then, so you already have a questionable higher. hire and then it becomes public that you can't even, you can't even hire the guy that is

not like, forget home run. Like we don't even know if he would be good at the job or not. And then it becomes so public and make you look so bad in the process is just. I mean, when your GM, he wants to play in the big three over being your GM. That's tough. It doesn't not look. Billups, in fact, would rather be in the big three than run the Cleveland Cavaliers for Dan Gilbert. Yeah, I mean, that kind of is a solid point, sharks.

And so now what? We have seen people generally think the return that Indiana got for Paul George was not enough, that they got the bad end of that deal, giving up getting Oladipo and Sabonis. people think that Jimmy Butler was robbed away. Chris Dunn, Zach Levine, and then the number seven pick, which ended up becoming Lori Marketing. What are the chances? Kyrie Irving is young.

He is about to enter what should be the best years of his NBA career. He is in the middle of a contract. He's a couple years on a contract left. Do you think that this is like almost every other star we see get moved and we will look at the return and think, oh my goodness, how did they do that? Or they just didn't get enough. Almost never does a star get traded and we love the return that the other team got. I was trying to think of one. I mean, people didn't destroy.

I guess mellow. Yeah, people didn't destroy that one. The other one that people didn't destroy was the Minnesota one for love. That was probably the one. Because they netted Wiggins, right? Yeah. But what are the chances that Cleveland is able to get, let's say they move, Kyrie, that they're able to get great return.

Do you think that somebody is going to give up a lot to get Kyrie Irving? Oh, that's a good question. You see the thing Bill put out today about a four-team trade where they got Wiggins back? I don't know. I think Bledsoe, I think probably. That feels like the most likely scenario is they trade for Eric Bledsoe, and then he that goes to New York as a three-team dealer, he goes to Phoenix. Seems like probably the best deal on the table. I would assume.

Well, because Bledsoe, and by the way, there would be another player in the east or going west, which would be just insane. Yeah, that story that came, there was the one rumor that came out that was like, that included Bledso and, and Josh Jackson, which I could not fathom that. I don't think that they would. They don't want a rookie. Huh?

Ron's like to want a rookie. Oh, buddy, I'd take Josh Jackson along with Bledsoe in a deal. I like Josh Jackson, too. Yes. I think they would go like Bledsoe and they'd get that pick the heat gave them that's unprotected for Drogich. Then you have that pick. And the reason this comes up a lot is because Bledsoe, obviously, it doesn't make a

tremendous amount of sense. They're in Phoenix anymore. And he is represented by clutch sports. Yeah, it's clutch guy. And if you have Bledso, you get like, I don't know, T.J. Warren or some of Alex Lenn. And that pick, Bledsoe and that pick is the main thing. Because that pick probably becomes something else pretty good, too. Well, then Kairie would certainly have his own team.

Well, him and Booker. Yeah, I did an article about it today at the Ringer, Kyrie and the Sons. It'd be a tough, I think he'd be a good long-term fit for him, but he would find out the other side of the coin. Like, you want to be the best part of a young team. You're going to lose a lot. It's not going to be very easy. No, it's going to be a while. before the Suns win.

Yeah, I like their pieces, but Kyrie that are still probably two, three years away from being a contender. Yeah, you have talked about it. And it's funny because you wrote today, if we can, we can talk about this a little bit, the Sun's emerging as the perfect summer blockbuster trade partner. And so whether that is Kyrie Irving or who knows, listen, now that one came out of no. I was shocked by it, weren't you? That one came out of nowhere to me.

What the Suns? No, no. The Kyrie. request. So all I'm saying is you never know who can, when this news is going to drop. The NBA has gotten totally crazy. And so maybe next week there's somebody else that wants out. But just walk me through why you think the sons are the perfect trade partner for somebody in order to land somebody big. This is clearly what McDonough, their GM has been lining up for. I'd really liked Jackson. I like Ulyss.

Obviously, Devin Booker is fantastic. I will tell you, and this is maybe just an overreaction after Summer League, I was not in love with Bender and I was super disappointed in Marquise Chris. So I don't know. Yeah, I think Chris has been disappointing. I still

like Bender, though. I'm a Bender guy. I think the things he does well, he's super young. He can shoot threes. He's mobile for a 7-footer. He knows how to play. I know that's kind of a smaller thing right now, people believe in Bender, but I'm still a Bender, believer. He's like 19 or 20. So they have four lottery picks under 21, Booker, Jackson, Bender, Chris. They've got Bledso's movable. They've got Ulyss and Alan Williams, solid young players. And then they've got Len and T.J. Warren, former lottery picks who could be moved to. So, I mean, there's a lot of pieces there. And so now do you think that they, if we're lining, yeah, if we're lining up everything that everybody's going to make their offer.

don't you think though you could get a great player in return for Kyrie? None of those are great players. See, I like Eric Bloodsoe a lot. I think he'd be great in Cleveland. I'm a big Eric Bloodsoe guy. You know, the other thing is he also, when I was thinking about that like Bloodsoe and Jackson and whoever they could throw in, I'm thinking of it through the prism of, and you've got to wonder, you've got to think that Cleveland management is thinking this.

how do we build to beat Golden State? Like, do we, with that in mind, and Blitzow is the perfect kind of guy, I think. Yeah, he actually plays defense. Well, he did. He used to, he used to be the kind of guy that you couldn't get the ball past half court without it being a total struggle. I think the losing has really gotten to, he has, I will say this, he has got the capabilities to be an elite level defender.

I feel like he has short-shifted himself the last few years. Well, I mean, it's tough to play elite defense at point guard on a young team who doesn't play. Like, you're playing great defense. You got Marquis, Chris, and Bender behind you. They're still going to score, right? Booker next to you. It's tough to play elite defense on a team with young guys that's not going to win. You're like, you know what?

Let me hold my energy. Let me get my stats. Like, on a good team, I think Bledso would be a lot better defense as my suspicion. Okay. Well, here, we must mention the. the Knicks possibility because A, Kari Irving wanted to, listed them as a team,

and they kind of have a guy on a big contract that they are looking to trade. And so what are the chances we get that kind of a blockbuster? And would that make sense for both teams? If Kyrie doesn't want to be in Cleveland anymore and they're going to move him, and you've got the whole Carbello no trade, but he says, fine,

I'll accept a trade to go. play with LeBron, could there be a deal there to be made? And would that be smart? I think so. I think it makes sense. It'd have Kyrie. I think you'd probably trade love after that. You wouldn't want to have Love, Mello, and LeBron, because they wouldn't all start and that wouldn't go very well. But I think if you can get like Bledso-Mello, LeBron, and then trade love for more wings, it's a pretty interesting team. From the York's perspective, you got a young point card with Porzingis, get rid of Mello. Then I guess thinks would get nicotina probably and he gives them a young point guard like i don't know if the money would work but it makes sense for all sides i could see it okay well what about this what about

if they make that deal and does that i mean wouldn't you need some level of assurance if you're carmello from lebron like yo you can't because he's got a couple years left so that's kind of the that's kind of the issue here right yeah that's if you are carmello you go Yo, I got two years left, and I am not going to be in Cleveland by myself while you go off to L.A. Like, wouldn't you have to make that call to him and be like, all right, tell me you'll stick around for the next year? Because what I'm not going to do is accept this trade to Cleveland, and you may bolt next offseason. I could see that one stopping the Carmelo thing, just from Carmelo's perspective. No, that makes a lot of sense.

I think you would say, like, maybe if you have Carmelo and Bledsoe there and you trade love for like some defensive players, the team is better possibly. Then he has more of his guys there. Maybe he's more willing to stay next year in Cleveland. Because Mel's one of his best friends. Him in Bledsoe are real tight. And it's all LeBron's guys. Like J.R. is a clutch guy.

Tristan's a clutch guy. Maybe that gets him to stay. The thing is that LeBron's not going to commit. That would be... I know, but that would be an intensely savage move to say, hey, yeah, Carmelo come over here. Carmelo accepts it. And then next year, LeBron goes in place for the Lakers.

And Carmelo Anthony's a Cleveland Cavalier playing alongside Iman Schumpert and whoever. Yeah, that would be savage, but it's a cold world out here. Because LeBron could say I'll do it and not resign. What's Carmelo going to do at that point? He left Wade in Miami. He's too smart for that. That's a good point. That's a good point.

Yeah. I mean, it's because it just doesn't line up. If it's all one-year stuff, like that's why the Paul George thing was perfect, right? Yeah. Because it's just one year. And so what? And that's the other thing on the whole, because I know Bill put out there about this guy who's in the management at Oklahoma City, Weaver wanting Carmelo. And I listened to his pod yesterday.

He's talking about how he's a guy that recruited him to Syracuse and on and on and on and that they are kind of circling each other. But that, to me, again, is the major sticking point where Carmelo, because he's got this power of the number. trade, he would have to have total assurance because we're talking about a couple other places. If he goes to Cleveland and LeBron leaves, that situation sucks. If he goes to Oklahoma City and let's say those two others pick up and leave after next year and then you got another year there. Because if Carmelo had a one, if it was a one year deal, then that would just open up Pandora's box to trade possibilities.

You see the power of the no trade clause. If I was an NBA star, give me a no trade clause, please. It gives you so much control of your career. Well, because now look, because he's got that second year, if I'm him, I don't go to a place where I think the other guys might bolt. And that is certainly the case in Cleveland, and that is certainly the case in Oklahoma City. Almost nobody. You were at Vegas Summer League.

Nobody thinks that Paul George is staying in Oklahoma City. Nobody. Yeah, I mean, that's a really good point. Maybe it has to be Houston for him then. Only a place where he knows they're going to stay long term. But then again, Paul's free next year. I guess Hardin's locked in, though. Yeah, but yeah.

So at the very least, you're playing with James Hardin. Yeah. Long term. Yeah, and that Houston thing. That's what I kind of feel. I kind of feel like Carmelo would say no to this stuff. So now it's just figuring out what kind of return you can get for Kyrie Irving. I do think this.

I think the Kyrie, and you start. started off by slandering Derek Rose, so God forbid what you're probably going to say about Kyrie Irving. People have gone way too far on him. A, he is an amazing playoff performer. He is one of the best offensive players in the entire. I think he was 11th in scoring. He averaged 25 points a game.

He shoots 47% from the field. He shoots 40% from 3. He can do it at a high volume. And then in the playoffs, he gets even better. I feel like it's gone a little too far on what level of play, you know, and the bad way, on what level of player Kyrie Irving is. I think Kyrie Irving is one of the great players in the NBA, and now it's almost like he's put himself in this situation where it's like,

I don't want to play with LeBron, and so people can kind of resent that, and they want you to just be happy being a second fiddle. But I'm not so sure. Like, I think it may have gone a little too far, Charks. But you've probably got him ranked as, like, the 50th best player in the NBA. I don't believe in rankings pass like top five anyways. But, yeah, I have plenty of Kai Rieslander. I mean, he's great.

Obviously, he's an incredible offensive player. Well, he has against Gold instead of year in the finals is incredible. It's just he has to be on the right team because he doesn't play defense, doesn't pass the ball. He can pass, if he's past the ball more, which is, like, tough for good scores. I'm glad you're saying this. Because let me just stop you. I feel like with Kyrie Irving, this is going to get to the point.

I finally think I flush this out. You've triggered something. When people bring up Kyrie Irving and many in the basketball intelligentsia, they bring up what he doesn't do first. I feel like it went this way with Isaiah Thomas too. All right. And at some point you go, dude, he freaking averages 30 points a game. or in Kyrie's case

he averaged 25 points a game and with games in the balance in the playoffs he can get you a bucket and he can if you needed 45 one night he can just go get it for you and so with guys like IT3 with guys like Kyrie

maybe that's what I resent is that the first thing that comes up about them is their shortcomings rather than how awesome they are yeah I mean I need a who can play defense though and a guy who can give me like eight assists again to me that's just my philosophy like i feel like points per game it's how many shots you take right it's the recollection

then get rage on rondo you had him in dallas charge he hasn't played defense you had him ronald doesn't play defense either he did in the playoffs that's true for two games against i and by the way who was guarding him isaiah thomas looked amazing see now you get back to i say i'm just tired of like these guys like Kyrie and Isaiah Thomas, it's like everybody's always telling me what they can't do. Let me talk about what they can do. These guys are like, of all on planet Earth, which Kyrie may or may not believe is flat. On plain earth, on square earth. He is one of the five best people on it at scoring a basketball, in my opinion.

Okay, like, let's just show you like, like Minnesota, to me, would you rather have Kyrie score the ball or Butler or towns? To me, I'd rather have a buller in town scoring the ball on the team. And so they're going to. Aren't they having that issue with Wiggins anyway? They're going to. They're going to have that issue with Wiggins anyway. Well, yeah, I have more. I have Wiggins slender if you want that as well.

But that's the thing I hear of them. You hate him too? Give me guys who play defense, man. It's tough to play they don't play defense. If their offense outweighs their defense, I'm okay with it. I mean, were you the guy sitting around? crapping on Steve Nash during the MVP years? You know I'm a Dallas guy.

We got better worth out of him, man. Oh, God. The mouse lost Steve Nash, out of jet tearing got better. It just feels like all the, like Isaiah Thomas comes up, or Damian Lillard comes up, or Kyrie Irving comes up, or Andrew Wiggins,

or on and on. So many of these guys, John Wall got it last year. John Wall is great. He can play defense. He can. but people will. He also died on every screen in the Boston series. He just did. And I do think there is some of the conserving energy

to be the amazing offensive players that they are. Clearly anybody is capable of playing defense. Some guys are not. Isaiah's not capable. He might be incapable. He just might be. No, he definitely. Genetic limitations.

Yeah. He can play as hard as he wants. and there's, he's never going to be tall. Well, that's the thing about Kyrie. He could play good defense. It's upsetting to watch. Like, you could play, but you wanted to shoot the ball all the time and never play defense.

It's like you're playing with LeBron James. That works. Other teams, maybe not as much. I'll be interested to see. Do you think there's any chance he's a cavalier next year? I really don't know. It doesn't seem like it. But I think the Cavs, if I was the Cavs,

I would not be like, let's train him tomorrow. You got three months. Let's get a good offer. This is very important deal, obviously. Ring her ambiation. brought to you by Hotel Tonight if you're like me and you're not so great at planning ahead. I've got good news for you. There's an awesome app called Hotel Tonight that helps you find amazing hotel deals at the last minute. It sounds counterintuitive, but unlike flights,

hotel rates actually get cheaper at the last minute. And Hotel Tonight helps hotels sell their own sold rooms, allowing them to pass those deals along to you. These aren't last resort places. They're actually cool, top-rated hotels you can stay in. It's perfect for a spontaneous getaway or finally going on that trip. You've always been one. wanting to take. Hotel Tonight. When you're out driving, like, how many times are you out on a long road trip and you want to stop off somewhere? But then you've got to book a hotel on your phone, like you're just going to catch a night's sleep and then you'll drive the rest of the way in the morning. This is perfect for that because even though the app's name is Hotel Tonight,

you can book even up to a week in advance. So get in on these killer last minute deals. Download the Hotel Tonight app now. The show also brought to you by Sacks on underwear. All I've been telling you about Sacks for a long time. A lot of you have responded tell me you've gotten it and it is the best underwear you've ever had. I told you shopping for new underwear does not seem like a top priority, but it should be. The right pair of underwear can make a huge difference and that's Sacks underwear. They'll improve how you go about your day, even how you work out, so supportive, so comfortable and they look good too. Sacks has everything you didn't know you needed in a pair of underwear until you try them.

I love my SACS underwear. The feel, the fit, the patterns they are the absolute best I've ever had. And no matter what you're doing, they've got you covered. They've innovated their design so you can move around freely in total control. Every pair comes with Sacks' patented ballpark pouch. It keeps everything in place. No chafing. And there's nothing else out there like Sacks.

I want you to try Sacks underwear with my special limited time deal. Go to the URL. Sacksunderware.com slash NBA. You'll get 20% off your first purchase. Go pick up a few pairs. Go to sacksunderware.com slash NBA. That's sacks with two X's. For 20% off your first purchase, go to sacksunderware.com slash NBA.

LeBron James was reportedly eager for Cleveland to trade Kyrie Irving. LeBron went on Twitter this morning and responded, responded, not facts, people. Boo. Get another source. Another tweet. LeBron James is extremely unhappy with Kyrie. trade request, quote, LeBron James would be tempted to beat his ass. LeBron James says, hashtag, not facts, people, boo, get another source, enjoying my summer,

you do the same. There you go. I just feel like why even secure LeBron? Why say anything at all? He is booing people. He is booing people. Well, he also obviously didn't want to, because then he got in this tricky spot where He wanted to act like the president, but knew there would be backlash if he acted like the president.

And so he created the hashtag not facts. Like he should have called it like the, you know, don't believe the failing slam magazine or something. Oh, that would have been hilarious. The failing slam magazine? Just out it, man. Hey, Trump is good at Twitter. He's like the world's best Twitter person. I love, by the way, I love slam magazine.

Shout out to all the people there. I also would have spit out my drink if LeBron James would have said, pay no attention to the failing Slap magazine. See, that would have been the Captain Morgan moment of the week. There would have been the Captain Morgan moment of the week. But instead, he just put up, not facts, people, boo. See, you could have done, like, you could have actually made this funny, too. You could have done the-

See, LeBron needs writers. Like, he should pay us money instead of. Right. You could have done fake news. you could have done alternative facts, right? But it is pretty funny that he addressed wanting to beat Kyrie Irving's ass. That's the headline. Of all the headlines that he could have pulled,

the one that he pulled was LeBron James would be tempted to beat his ass. It just makes him look ridiculous. Like that makes him look real. I see why he responded. It makes him look so dumb. What? Did he want to beat his ass? 300 pounds bigger than Kyrie.

What does that prove? If you beat his ass? Yeah. A different way. Doesn't mean anything. It is interesting if we just examine the headline. Do you mean he wants to beat his ass? For what?

Yeah. Because he doesn't want to play basketball with me. I don't believe he thinks that. There's no way that actually he said that. I don't know. I guess Steve Ney's got good sources. At the very end of this, let me just play the devil's advocate one thing.

I'm going to defend Kyrie Irving, right? What if Kyrie Irving came on here? And by the way, Kyrie, you are always one. welcome to come on the Ringer NBA show. And he said, and you know what, forget, he doesn't say it publicly, but we're just out with him somewhere. He's like, I can't stand being around the guy. I can't take it.

He drives me crazy. Everything's about him, all these locker room videos with him dancing in a leotard. I just, I don't want to be around him anymore. I don't like him. I don't like his homies, and I'm tired of it. I don't, I, and so I got to say what I got to say. But truth be told, I don't want to hang. I don't want to be with him all of next year.

I just want to go somewhere else. Like at that point, I almost feel like people would be like, oh, okay, you just don't like the guy. Sometimes you just don't like people you work with. Like that would be the most plausible reason. Like forget basketball and I want to be the man and all that kind of stuff, right? Like, me might just not like the guy. Like, that's totally possible.

You know what I would tell him? I'd be like, I totally get that. Ron seems pretty unbearable, but part of being a professional is dealing with people you don't like. Do you think I like Chris Vernon? Do you think I like hanging out with him? I got to do my job, though. You know what? I'm going to put up a headline.

I'm going to beat John. I wish I had never seen you and you were like five foot seven or something because I would put up down. I'm not a fighter though, man. I'm a pacifist. You could probably beat me up. Really? What a fucking waste of size you are. You are.

It's like middle school. You are a waste of size, sharks. I get buckets, man. I'm not fighting people. Oh, let me guess. You hold the Nebraska state record for three-pointers made in the game. If I played Nebraska, man, I'm playing out in Texas? Nah, we play real basketball out here.

Oh, you were a Texas basketball player. Of course. Oh, okay. So tell me about the time that you got four points against Chris Bosch or something. No, actually, here's one. I remember I played Dorell Arthur. And I was like in ninth grade. He was like in seventh or eighth.

And I was like, that's it for me. I'm not playing in the NBA. This is Dorel Arthur, but like, he was way too good for me. I was like, wow, this guy, I have no chance of guarding him. He can score me every single time he touches the ball. This is kind of sucks. There was a kid who was the number. He ended up being the ACC champion, or the ACC player of the year, years ago,

who played at Duke. His name was Chris Carrowell. Oh, yeah. And he was, and when I was growing up, I went to, like it was one of those tournaments we had. I was probably in like the seventh grade, and he was in the game before us, same age, and he dunked. And I was like, okay. Like I couldn't even dribble with my left hand, hardly.

Like certainly not proficiently all the way up and down the court. And this guy was dunking, and I was like, all right, hockey it is. Yeah, there's a lesson there. It's good to how, you know, everyone gets humbled eventually. So there you go. All right. Oh, and by the way, let me. just say this. Two things. First, the inventor of the microwave was Percy Spencer. Is he American?

First sold in 1946. The U.S. guy? That's 1946. I would not have guessed that as the year. So clearly, I'm not going to be able to hold on to that one. I do want, my goal is for my son to go to school and for him to tell his teacher that my dad invented the microwave. That's pretty awesome. Right. He totally should. Invented the microwave. The other thing is, I did want to say this. I am a, please do not.

I have not talked to you since. So please do not ruin this and tell me that there has some kind of bad ending. You did get married, right? I'm getting married on Saturday. Oh, it's this Saturday. Yeah, this Saturday. Okay, I thought it was this past Saturday. I would not be doing this podcast if it was this past Saturday.

That would be a quick divorce. Five doing a week. podcast on my honeymoon. Do you know where you're going for your honeymoon? Cancum. There you go. Well, congratulations, Charks, on the wedding. This will be a very stressful weekend for you, but I hope it goes extremely well.

Thanks, man. I appreciate that. Awesome. I didn't mean it, by the way. Yeah. It is very stressful, though. She's very stressed right now. She is?

Oh, you didn't. You made her playing the whole thing, didn't you? I wouldn't say I made her? She wanted to plan the whole thing. All right. Give me one thing that you contributed to this wedding this Saturday, besides yourself in the ring. No, seriously nothing.

It's bad. It's bad, no, I didn't do anything. One opinion, one choice that you made, anything. God. Who my best man would be? I mean, seriously, it's bad. I feel terrible. She's very stressed.

And you're not helpful at all. I tried, but it just didn't go very well. Well, you'll be on a plane to Cancun and Kyrie Irving will get traded, and they'll call you from the ringer and say, hey, we need you to write 1,500 words on Kyrie Irving getting traded. I'm going to leave my phone in Dallas because, no, she gave me that very clear. There'll be no work being done on this honeymoon.

My laptop, too, is going to stay in Dallas. Congratulations on the wedding coming up this Saturday. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks, Charks. All right, thanks, man. All right. That's going to do it for another Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, give us a rating and review on.

iTunes, we will talk to you next week.