The Ringer NBA Show - Checking in on the Western Conference Play-in Pool. Plus, KD’s Legacy and Ascent on the All-Time Scoring List | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 14, 2024

Logan and Raja discuss the Kings’ ongoing dominance of the Lakers, the current status of the play-in tournament in the Western Conference, and the four teams most likely to  battle it out (5:06). Next, they talk about Kevin Durant’s legacy as he prepares to pass Shaq on the NBA’s all-time scoring list and what that says about his decorated career (32:12). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (51:25). Email us questions for Mailbag Monday! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Brian Curtis from The Ringer, and I want to tell you about the Press Box podcast. The Press Box is a podcast for anybody who likes news, whether it's about sports or politics or pop culture, and wants to understand how that news really gets made. We have news shows every Monday and Thursday. We have long interviews with everyone from John Crackhour to Joe Buck. Your social media feeds are bursting with information every day. Let us help you sort it out. Join us.

on the press box. Bobbin, Logan Murdoch here, Rogerville, there. Raja, the star of Tiki Talk. Oh, man. Wow. Wait, no, I don't have the Tic Tac, so I didn't, I didn't. No, no, no, don't try to, don't try to clean it up now.

You know what you called it. I'm not, no. I mean, listen, yeah, Tiki Talk, the Tick-Tic-Tac. I mean, whatever. I mean, my sons are on TikTok, I think. I don't know, but I'm not on that shit, so I don't know anything about it. You guys clipped that. It did well.

We clipped it. It did marginally well. It did pretty good. Were people beefing with me? People were feeling what I was saying. It was one of the ones where people were in the comments beefing with each other. So that's always great. I remember sitting it.

I sent it last night to a group chat with Jemmy. Or no, not last night on Monday. afternoon, I sent it like just a raw clip that I said in our group chat. I sent that to a group chat with Jemmy. And then Jemmy just says this season to go on TikTok. And then 20 minutes later it was on TikTok. It was great.

You know, you were holding it down for the old heads, Rosner. Congratulations. I mean, yeah, I appreciate that. I mean, obviously it was the end of the pot. I was pretty excited about like going off on a rant. But like, I did say what's not on the clip. And I will just reiterate that like, You know, players are, players are great now and their skill levels and all of that are better because they've had the advantages of training and using all the things at their disposal now in a way that those, those players did not back then.

But I would still say, even with all of that, like, you know what trips me out? You know what trips me out the most though? What's that? This, it's, it's randoms. Yeah. Like, none of you motherfuckers. could guard me, let alone MJ in his prime. Why are you beef in with me? Right, right.

I'm not going to lie, though. I saw the videos for the first time on Monday. There are a lot of things. But most importantly, they're fucking hilarious. They're fucking hilarious. They're hilarious. Like, I'm not that guy. Yeah. I know. I know you laugh. There was one, there was the Michael Jordan versus

Larry Birdwell, that's hilarious, right? Then there's the, like, there's the Michael Jordan versus Magic Johnson and Byron Scott. Right? he's like, why you're doubling off magic? It was hilarious. Me, Kerm, and Kai also had a funny, fun group chat experience. Just talking about the different one.

It's hilarious, guys. This whole thing is just funny. Good job to everyone involved. It is funny. It is funny. I might have to give myself a tiki talk account. Like, don't do it. Who knows?

I said forever I wasn't going to have a Twitter, right? Like this was roughly a decade ago. I was never going to have an X or Twitter account. And eventually they got me. so I don't know who knows it doesn't you don't have to do it don't do it all right

what I've done with like I don't have a tiki talk but and I sound hell of old saying that I just love how you said it I usually call it TikTok but Tiki Ticc is just game all the life of its own I

I don't have a Tick Tick Tick because it's not my generation's social network right like I don't know what the fuck I'm doing I don't know what I'm doing so I'm just like I'm not even going to fake the funk we let Ringer MBA TikTok do its thing Shout to Ringer NBA TikTok. Make sure you follow that.

But other than that, like, I'll just check in, see how the real ones videos are doing. They generally do well. So just, you know, go from there. And then, you know, hey, that's all we got. I'm with that. I'm with that. I'm going to stay on the gram and marginally on the X. Whatever that is now.

Yeah. I'm sorry. Did it cheap? I promise we'll get to basketball at some point in this discussion. But it's cheapen, like, when it went to X, it cheapen your desire to try to get a very, verify checkmark. Yeah, I've never revisited that.

I thought I was going to be a lot more active on the platform. And really, I just use it to retweet, like, both of my son's stuff and your stuff or our stuff. Like, you know what I mean? So, like, it's not. Same. It's not even worth it for me to get through the hassle at this point. Did you watch basketball last night, rather? Did you see any of the games?

Yeah, I watched a little basketball last night. I went to, I went up I-80 to Macrimanow and saw the Kings versus the Lakers. I saw Sabonis bully that man to run a court. Yeah, so before we get into the, to the playing and all that stuff, let's just start talking about how DeMontas Sabonis basically just proved every point that Raja has made about Anthony Davis correct. And I saw it, not even 4K, I saw it in real life. And it was pretty jarring, Russia.

The play where Subonis goes full court meets Anthony Davis, I think he hit him in the jaw, but I'm not sure if he actually hit him in the jaw. And it had Anthony Davis laid out for a good five minutes in real time at Golden One Center, forcing the Lakers to call a time out. And then I think about 20 minutes in real time. I think they went up for a loose ball. at half court and Anthony Davis again fell down like a ragdoll and just laid out. It wasn't a pretty sight, Roger.

It just wasn't a pretty sight. What were your thoughts on the game and Anthony Davis' performance and said game? Well, I mean, it's a game. It was a big game. I mean, you're talking about two teams that, you know, have a lot at stake right now. The Kings, you know, trying to stay out of the play. in situation and and the Lakers tried to play their way, you know, out of it in some regards, maybe even, well, no, I think they're not really in jeopardy of falling out of the play in.

Like, there's a pretty good separation between them and 11. But the point is that's a big game for both teams. So, you know, the Kings holding it down or the Lakers dropping the ball, their ramifications there. I'm more interested in the other part of it, which is the physicality that Sabonis plays with. It seems like it's ramped up even a little bit more when he sees Anthony Davis. I saw a stat today. He's like 0 and 10.

Anthony Davis is against a bonus. That is a same. That's a wild stat. I would just say this. And I know I'm going to get a lot of pushback from this new age. We're sensitive. Tiki talkers. Yeah, we're sensitive to head injuries.

And we got to lay down every time someone gets hit in the nose. We got to make sure they're not concussed. and they have to lay down, it's better safe than sorry. I know I'm going to get it from you. I don't give a fuck. Could care less because what I'm about to say brings true in any generation. If somebody goes through your chest right squarely through your chest and basically an one's you and puts that in a hole and you get hit, get your ass up and get to the bench,

you can be hurt. Hear what I'm saying to you. You could be hurt. There are optics here, my boy. You're the biggest player on our damn team. we can't have you out there writhing in pain acting like you got shot get your ass up and get to the bench do it over there go in the back

I haven't seen a visual like that since Pachia out of just a band sprawled out on the floor for everyone to see and he keeps playing like if you're if you're going to do that you're out for the game you understand what I'm saying to you Logan if you're going to do that and you're going to tell me hey fellas listen I'm packing it up I can't play

anymore. I can't feel what you're feeling. Like, if you are hurt or injured, I should say, you're injured, man, go do that. But I sit here and tell you, you remember my young and who I gave real one of the week, and it's going to be crazy. But you know the one I gave real one in a week two the other night? Yep. They lost in their conference championship game, all right? This dude played with two torn ligaments in one ankle and a broken toe. How does he walk? He could barely, but he's out there hooping. And look, I'm not drawing any equivalent to him as a player or anything. like that, but that's the type of shit I'm on. So if you ain't telling me you can't

play anymore, get up and get to the bench. Roger, it was the old school Sacramento crowd there last night too. They gave out cowbells. They gave out free cowbells walking in last thing. So when that

when that play happened, Roger, they clipped it, they clipped it, reversed it, all the o-ops. They just, It was just, they played it and it went into a timeout. So they were just milking this shit out of it. And you know, it was, it was the absolute worst time for this to happen because it was a nationally televised game.

It was against the Kings who hate the Lakers. Kings fans hate the Lakers. There was somebody who had a fool and a suite that I saw who had a full Kevin Hurter full ass outfit on. Just a full headband and all the whole nine just bored like, no! Like it was just, it was just, it was turned. It was turnt. And that play is going to be played at Golden One Center for all eternity. Every single time the Lakers come to town, it's going to be on every sizzle reel.

It was ridiculous. I genuinely mean this. And it gets lost. I know because I raise my voice. It happens around my house. Like, I raise my voice. It's just the way I talk, right? And when you do that a lot, people, it loses its effect.

Yes, it loses its effect. Yes, it loses its effect. So let me calm down when I say this. There are people on your team who can get bullied and ride around in pain once in a while. Guards, wings, your backup big. They're different people. Not the biggest person on your team. Honestly, he was the biggest person on the court.

Yeah, not what is supposed to be the physical impediment defensively to any other team trying to assault your paint. That player, he can't do that. That's a terrible look. It's just not a good. look. So after that happened, right, LeBron got caught for a foul,

and you're going to love this. This is your whole bag. So at Golded one, they have the top cameras from the cameras. It was like, you know, the old school, like NBA Finals cameras where they go down to the court. So they had that from the Jumbotron,

and they zoom in on LeBron's face as he's looking up at the Jumbotron, and they play Kirby's enthusiasm theme. And even LeBron was like, all right, fuck you. Respect, fuck you. So they were in their bag last night. They were in their bag last night. Golden Onsenter was in its bag last night.

And it was just like, respect to the kings who are now, who now sit for, not firmly, they have the tiebreaker, I think over the suns. They sit in sixth place right now. And they're out of the plan for the time being. but they just systematically demolished this Laker team for like this, for the second time in about a week span, uh, only on the tiebreaker, not only on the tiebreaker,

swept the season series against Los Angeles Lakers. You don't, I got, I got on the call on Riverside call with Kai, um, before you got here. And he was just disheveled. He was a shell of himself.

Kerm didn't even show up this morning. That's how, what the Kings did. to the Lakers. I just, we could put this into a play in discussion in a second, but just what is a loss like that do for a team when the Lakers do what they do? And what is a win like that do for a team like the Sacramento Kings? Because I know this, you played for the Phoenix Sons and there's just a different allure to

beating the Lakers and beating the shit out of the Lakers, especially when you just embarrassed them and send their ass back home. What does that do for a franchise when you do something like that? Well, I mean, you know, aside from it being the Lakers, you know, aside from it being the Lakers and all jokes aside, it's a historical franchise with meaning across generation. So beating the Lakers is always good for anyone that's not in a Lakers uniform, right? That's always going to feel pretty good. There are a few franchis like that.

The Celtics are like that too. Like you're just storied franchises. But what it does in the now for this specific team coming down the stretch is it's just solidifying. your mind fractionally that we're good to see them. They won't beat us. When I tell you they were shoulders shrugging, bro, they were like, get them the fuck out of here. It was very disrespectful what the games were doing last night.

And I'm not saying this to be true. And I'm not saying that it's unequivocally would play out like this if they played each other. But you got mind control over that right now. They deba-it-it, yeah, it don't matter what you do. I got you. And that's the way you're feeling as the team that's winning. They didn't even debo them.

They cragged him. It was at the end of the movie. They cragged him. They got a brick and just whoop. But for the Lakers, I mean, again, and on the flip side of that, what you're trying to do, given any opportunity,

and people ask me a lot of times about Kobe and his mindset. And I like to say, I never say Kobe was a bully, right? But Kobe had bully tendencies in that on the court. If he could get mind control on you. He was going to take that. Every time. Every time. And keep you guessing as to whether or not, like, you could beat him or

deal with him, right? Like, that was his thing. On top of being, like, a brilliant player. The other part of it was, like, don't even think you can beat me, bro. You cannot. And the greats have that. Like, MJ had that. Larry Bird had that. Like, all the guys were talking about on their tiki talk. Like, those dudes would whoop your ass and, like, talk to you in a way that was so crazy that you'd feel like, damn, is he supposed to be whooping my ass, maybe? If you were built like that. And so that's what you're doing to the Lakers.

Hey, bro, don't even think about it. Don't even, you all know, and don't even think about it. Now, you know, I'm not saying that the Lakers feel like that. But that's what a win like that is doing. That's what a sweep is doing. It's essentially planting those seeds like, you know you can't beat us and we know you can't beat us. You know how like when you lose a game and like the, reporter just makes it worse when they ask you a question.

Just like a very fair question, but they just ask, a friend of the show, Dan Wojke of the LA Times, I'm pretty sure it was him. Just was like basically asked Brant after the game was like, yo, it just got to a point where it seemed like you guys just couldn't stop them. And every move you guys made, they had a counter for it. How did you feel about it? It brought just like, well, damn. Thanks for the question.

Thanks for the question, bud. So this sets up a very interesting time in the Western Conference, which honestly, I don't know why it is, but the Western Conference always has these great playing and playoff races. Just historically speaking, I think about the 07-08 season when 50 wins barely got you an eighth seed. It's kind of getting into those vibes right now as we get down the stretch of the season. But let's talk about the standards right now. Kings at 38 and 27 are currently in six, but they're tied with the sons who are also 38 and 27. Both are those are at 38 and 27. I can't read.

Then you have the Mavericks who are 38 and 28, have game out of the playing. And then you have at the eighth seed. And you have the Lakers and the Warriors slugging it out right now in the 9 and 10th seed right now. Where do you see this going? Because when I look at the seeding right now, I see the Lakers and the Warriors who honestly, you ever just like look at two teams where you're just like just put them out of their misery we really don't want to see them we don't want to see them anymore we know what they are they they have these both the lakers and the warriors have had these fake runs over the season where it kind of tricks

you but then they tell you who they really are like after those like two and one runs get them out of the paint so that leaves the mavericks the kings and the in the suns how do you see this playing out as we're at march 14th where do you see where do you think we are as as a playing. I see three tiers of teams really in that in that one through 10, right? You have Denver, Oklahoma, Minnesota, and the clippers. I think they're safe, even though the clippers are only, what, two and a half. Also, very curious injury from Kauai.

Yeah. Now, all of this, let's preface all of this by saying, you know, what's going to be the most critical thing down the stretch is that these teams stay healthy and avoid major injuries. And so if any team sustains something like that, we could be talking about something different. But I do see kind of like the clippers and up. Then I see the pelicans through Dallas, right? That's a separation of what? One and a half games from eight to five.

I see that as being fluid. And then real talk, the nine and ten, I don't really see them playing their way out of the nine and ten spots. Just, I mean, you're two and a half games back. What is it? 16 games left in the season. Is it doable? Yes.

there's nothing over the course of the season that would suggest you guys get hot like that and so that's kind of the way I see it, Logan, and it's weird, but you could have a playoff situation this year where there's no LeBron, Steph, or AD in the Western Conference playoffs, which would be really, really interesting. Now, the other part that goes into it, I guess,

would be strength of schedule coming home, right? And, you know, Phoenix has the second toughest, second toughest road for the last 17 games. Then Sacramento is eighth toughest in the league. You know, the Clippers at 13. But then you've got Dallas, the Lakers, and Golden State all there at 21 through 23. Really, Dallas is interesting because Dallas will play the Kings twice who are, you know, still fighting for life. And they play Golden State twice, who's going to, you know, be fighting for life.

And so, you know, that's interesting because you got four games that aren't, that aren't really worth a half game. Those are worth, you know, full games in terms of you can, if you can win those, you know what I mean? And so they've got more of those, I think, than anyone else. So it's just going to be an interesting race. I mean, I said a lot to not say much, but it's what it is. Say the standings are where they are.

They finish the way they are. If you're looking at these standings, we know last year, last year was like the year of the playing team, the playing team run, you know, who got the Miami Heat who made it all the way to the finals and the Lakers who made it all the way to the conference finals. Do you see that this year? Because I think like 1-8, let's say, let's just go 1 through 8 because we don't, we have, as a real one staff record label and mother effing crew, I think we just, let's just get the Warriors and the Lakers out of here. It's just, I don't want to see them move. Do you see any potential of one of those teams making it?

If you look at right now from 1-3-8, do you see any of those teams that are maybe at the bottom that could maybe pull an upset, maybe, get to the conference finals. If so, which team do you see from that bottom, that bottom three from 1-8 to maybe make a run to the conference finals or beyond? Like, say, get to the right side of the bracket. Shit pops off. It's kind of like the 22 Warriors run where just right side of the bracket

and they just win against the overcome injuries, all that stuff. Do you see that with any of these teams in the bottom half of the bracket? Here's what I'll say about the bottom half of that bracket. I would say that anything that gets into the Western Conference playoffs that doesn't play Denver, I give you a shot. That's not to take anything away from Oklahoma City. They've been fantastic. Minnesota's been great.

I told you the other day. People aren't going to want to play them. But I say that you got a shot because you're going to have to prove that. Now, Minnesota has been there more recent than OKC. OKC's brand new to this. That's not to say that because you are, you can't be great. But if you're one of those teams that draws them, I mean, and you're looking for silver linings and hope, like, that's it, right? Like, they haven't been to the promised land in a way that that really solidifies in their mind that they know how to do it.

And so I give you a shot. I think it's kind of open. I agree with you. I will say this. Every team in the Western Conference is going to be circling the Kings and say, we want to face them. if they're around, if they're at the sixth seed, Timberwolves are like, let's face them. Even though I will say, and this is also King's Propaganda,

which we don't get much of on real ones, there is King's propaganda out there that they only beat good teams. They're one of those teams that only plays well against teams that they get up for, which I got to say that I have seen that in a lot of ways, right? They just, they get up and down, they're a fast team, and they do play harder. They just play harder against teams that they know when the lights are on, they play well. I mean, you saw that honestly. Say what you want about the Kings last year.

When the lights were on, they put a little bit of the fear of God and the Warriors to the point where Steph had to go off and having a store of performance to beat them at home. Yeah. I look at the bracket and I'm like, don't underestimate them, but we'll see what happens. One of the teams that I do like, though, if it were currently constructed, that's sons, sons matchup in the two seven matchup. I think that's the, the biggest opportunity for a upset.

And I'm only saying that as a matter of inexperience from the Thunder. The Thunder are really good. I wouldn't be surprised if Chet, you know, comes of age and plays well. Like that front court is really, really good, just very young.

Like you, I said a lot to say nothing. But if I were to look, I do think, I do look at that Sun's Thunder matchup is like, uh, maybe we got action there,

maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, that's kind of interesting because it ties into what I was going to say next, which is, you know,

teams, we talk about the game slowing down in the playoffs and doing all, you know, the old cliches of it. I'm not going to get into all of those. But what I will say, and I think this is, you know,

undeniable that in the playoffs, you have to have guys that can go get buckets outside of the scope of what you're traditionally trying to do offensively. in a way that they don't have to do throughout the course of the regular season. Because of the game playing, because of the detailing, because of the deep dive into what you're trying to do.

So those mid-range assassins, those dudes who can just get to the cheese, like they get really scary in the playoffs. And so a team like the Sons, to your point, with Kevin Durant and Devin Booker and Bradley Beal, they can get to the cheese in a way that if they are working and they are high, you could be the better team and they just outplay you in that.

Do you know, if that makes sense? Also, the Mavericks are like that. I talked about them, you know, a couple episodes ago with, with two just offensive geniuses in Luca and Kyrie. You know, their teams, look, I don't mean to throw any shade of dent, like Yolkich clearly and Jamal Murray, you know, Shea and, and Anthony, like the clippers are another team. with, you know, roughly three dudes, you know,

if James Hardin is going to show up in the playoffs, but three dudes who just can get a bucket if, and if it was a fifth, we all know what you beat. But if they are cooking, those are scary teams to play in the playoffs. Because you could be the better team and find yourself at home. Who, you reference the thunder. Who on the thunder are you concerned about

that might not be able to get his shot? when the chips are down, that you're like, damn, they might need one more year just to get there. You know what I'm saying? Like, which guys are the ones that concern you? Or in the top, like, of these young teams, who are the ones that concern you, like, when the ships are down? It's not necessarily that I'm concerned that some of their better offensive players won't, won't be able to play and produce. You're just talking about, again, let's take a blank slate. And you said, give me a name off the, give me a name, what, like, go with Chet.

Well, no, She's good. Like, Shay, I'm not worried about the Shays. Like, I'm not worried about the Anthony Edwards. Like, they're going to be fine. But, like, go to Chet, right? Yeah. Like, if you told me Chet or Devin Booker, what do you take it? Well, here's the thing.

I think I'm taking Devin Booker only because. But let me clarify it because I want you to not in terms of like who's going to be a better player in, who's a better player right now. In the context of we have a game, you got to give him the ball and he's got to get buckets in a way that's going to win. I'm picking Devin Booker. You know why? I understand what you're saying. I'm picking Devin Booker because Chet just hasn't had the series yet where he just gets his ass whooped. You know, he just hasn't had that.

The KD 2010 series, right? We all the every, like, pick a Michael Jordan series, right? Chet is the leaky guy. They're probably going to put Nerkich on them, just have NERCES just lean on them for fucking however long. This is a hypothetical series. We don't know if this is actually happening. But if the Sons play the- the thunder. That's what they're going to do. They're going to target

Chet try to beat the hell out of him and we'll see how he responds. It's different and as Roger and I know there's going to be a lot of real ones that are like, oh man, what do you mean, Logan? Have you seen Chet during the regular season? He's really physical. He's going to be fine. I'm not talking about that. It is a different physicality in the postseason and they, you know this, Roger, because you were one of the people that did it. You just beat people's ass for seven or six or seven games. You just kick their ass. You just foul and do little things. You know what I mean?

Like, it's just different. And that's what Ted has to learn at some point. He's a rookie. Yeah. And he's not going to get the calls that he's going to get later in his career in this postseason. This isn't taking anything away from Chad in any way, shape, or form. Tell me the last rookie that was like a bona fide bucket, you could count on him in the stretch of a championship type of run for their team.

Tim Duncan. Right. He was second year. That was Tim Duncan. I was his second year. his second, there's a second year. This, and I mean, this, you could technically, it's Chet's second year, but the point is,

this isn't to take anything away from him. This is, this is just to say that he, I think he's going to be fine in the playoffs. I would still say, in terms of pure bucket getting unconscious, one on one, everyone else stand and watch, you're going to take Devin Booker over Chet every day.

You're going to take KD over Chet every day. Bradley Beal is we could debate that But that's sometimes And I'm not I'm not trying to boil the game down to That's what it becomes in the playoffs and that's all that matters That's not what I'm saying But in a lot of cases there are those moments in playoff games We've all seen them

Where you're like damn dude This cat is cooking and he cooks in a way That is just enough for his team to get over the hump And those teams with more multiple guys that you trust to cook regardless can be scary in a in a playoff series. That's the point. It's not that the Sons would definitely beat Oklahoma. It's that dudes like that will scare the shit out of you because they could just go off.

Another thing before we get out of this segment, the Timberwolves have just slid in the standing since Carl Anthony Towns has been out of the lineup. What is, and it's funny, Nuggets are just, the nubberwolves have just slid in the standing. Nuggets, they just waited in the winds, and now they're just, they're number one in the West. Hey, their old friend, the Denver Nuggets are right here, ready to go make another title run. But what's your concern level right now? We haven't talked about the Timberwolves in that regard that much since, you know, the cat injury. What's your concern level with them at this point? There's a very real concern with, with Kat, not being able to play the way he needs to play for them to be the team that we all watched.

throughout most of this year. If he's back and he's 75%, I mean, that's just enough when you're talking about, you know, just fractions of being better than someone on any given night. If he's 25% less than he should be, you know, that's enough to change a game and to change a series. If he's healthy, and I don't have the answer to that, look, the rehab on something like this,

it's pretty boilerplate, but you never know when you get into these rehabs. You hear all the time about a guy coming back and before you know it, you know, he's like, oh, well, he's a week behind. We just don't have, you know, that's not a luxury right now. Yeah, no, as I'm saying, you know,

I still think they're a really good team, but it would definitely change, I think, where I think they could ultimately, you know, wind up winning their way to, if that makes sense. Yeah, because then you're put in a position where Rudy Gobert is your number one big in the postseason, and we've seen what has had.

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See terms at sportsbook. com. And we are back. I haven't talked about this guy a lot this season, but he's an old talking point for both of us throughout the years. And that is one Kevin Durant who is, I believe,

52 points away from passing Shaquille O'Neal on the all-time scoring list and ready to have some good old legacy talk. I was just thinking about Kevin and I'm just just like off the dome right now. Just kind of where he is in his career right now. I remember when I first started covering the man just like he was very much, he always talks about that being his like very, the most focused time he's ever been in in Golden State. And now I see him. in Phoenix after his time in Brooklyn. And he just feels like he's just letting go of a lot of things that he cared about in the beginning, constructively, of course.

And I feel like he's a lot more in the moment and just in a better headspace and just in a better play. Like just, it's funner to watch him right now that it's been in a while, you know? Like I've seen a couple games of his, I've watched him in person like maybe once this season. And he's in an interesting point in his career, Raja, where you, I don't know, I think this is, this is NBA's athlete life, but it's also just life in general where you get into the league, you're trying to make a name for yourself in the league, then you become generationally great. And then you press to try to win the title. And then when you get to the backstress of your career, you're like, man, I have a better perspective. and I'm just, I'm advised if I want another title, I want another title. What have you seen from him during this stretch?

He's scoring as well as he's scored. He's not as like, he's not as athletic as he once was, but he's coming off in Achilles and multiple knee injuries. But he's playing really well. What have you seen from this iteration, Kevin Durant, at this stage of his career? Coming back from an Achilles probably, that's no probably about it. It definitely isn't what it was when Dominique Wilkins tore his Achilles. But it's still a catastrophic type of injury that is really, really, really hard to come back from and look the same.

And while he may not have the exact same burst, he's still fantastic, man. He's at his 15th year, man. This is the six highest points per game, you know, of his career, Logan. Like, this is 15th year, man. He's played 58 games this year, man. Three point percentage is, I think, fourth highest of his career. He's just having an incredible year in a way that I wasn't sure he was going to be able to do after tearing the Achilles. Not because I doubted him, but because I know what that injury does.

Even with today's medicine and rehab at your disposal, it's just a devastatingly bad injury to sustain. And I don't have the words necessarily to describe how impressive it is to watch that dude go out there. And continue to cook and score at this level. Now, yes, he's 6-11. And he's, you know, Uber skilled. That always helps. But do you know what it's like to be the number one score? I mean, I want to be clear because there have been a lot of guys in the.

NBA that have made a career out of scoring the ball where he falls on the list of you know that's that's still TBD but i just want to say to the layman because guys guys who played they they kind of understand this you might get cast in the role of the number one guy on any given night um maybe there's some injuries your team is sustained maybe you get traded to a bad team and you go from being that's what happened to me you go from being the number four option to like on any given night larry is trying to run plays for me to score 25 so that we can win in Charlotte. Do you know how hard that is? I didn't find hooping hard.

Going out there and playing an NBA games, I didn't find extremely hard. I had worked my whole life to do it. I was good at it. I didn't find that specifically hard. But when you said, hey, man, the whole defense knows what's going to happen. They know what we run. They know what you do. You're going to come off these screens and they're going to be waiting for you when you come

off of that screen, but I still need you to score. that is incredibly difficult. And with Kevin, everybody knows what he's going to do because he's been doing it. He has a signature game. We know he's going to come off the pick. We know he's going to,

and the post what he's going to do. We know everything. We know his game because we've seen it for 15 years. He's an artist. He's an artist. That's what he is. And I hate to be corny about it because I know he kind of,

I don't know him well, but when I see him, he kind of projects like that. Like he looks like he's got a little hipster vibe to him. He's a sad boy artsy hipster vibe. He's he's one of those. He's a sad boy hipster vibe. But he plays like that. He plays like it's

art. He plays like Kyrie is similar to that as well. Kyrie is very similar to that where this is a canvas. You know, like LeBron plays to win. And this, I don't want this to be a viral type of clip because I'm not saying they don't play to win. Everybody relax. But all the tiki tops relax. Clearly they play

to win. But you understand what I'm saying, like LeBron's doesn't look like art necessarily. LeBron's looks like wrestling sometimes. I'm not going to lie real quick, though. I just want to say, there should look like ballet.

I just want to say a quick aside. This is what I want all my real ones to do, including Roger. Go watch just clips. I watch the clip of LeBron. You could do it with Durant, Steph, whoever you want. Just go on YouTube.

Press mute on the, on the highlight, and just put summer madness by Cool the Gang on. It's amazing experience. When you talk about art, he's glad to do that. Get you a little beverage,

Raja, and just go do it. And scoring, scoring to him is, is, you know, it's an art. And he is,

I remember playing, I remember playing him when he came into the league in Seattle. And, I mean, everybody knew he was going to be really,

really good. You know, he averaged 20 a game that year. And he was a matchup nightmare, both offensively and defensively. And quite frankly, you know, that's the piece that people miss the most about him because it's hard to always quantify what you do defensively. Not in the same way you can put a number.

He scored this many points. He this and this from the three point line as a percentage. But with that type of length, especially, you know, kind of when he was younger in the athleticism, what that looks like defensively when you plug it into almost any lineup is crazy. But so that gets that gets lost on him, but we you knew he could score. You knew he was going to be really good. I don't know. I don't know that that I necessarily saw the mastery of the craft being able to sustain for this long, if that's fair. I mean, because he was so long and so slight a build and you never really know.

Like it wasn't, it wasn't like I also you had never seen anything like that before. We had never seen it. And I was, and it was 6-11 out there with a ball in its hand, playing like a guard. Like that just didn't really exist like that. And so, I mean, it's been really, really cool to watch.

I wonder how much he's got left in him. It doesn't look like he's slowing down. So, I mean, I don't remember what you asked me about him to start, but I just had to diffuse praise. Are you going to watch Kevin DeRan highlights after this, after this podcast?

Are you going to just go, let's pull up the highlights and just be like, you know, let's look at the, let's look at the compilation. Is that what you're up to? because you kind of got a little, you got in a bag right now. I did, I did get in my bag, but I appreciate, I mean, I have a true appreciation for the art of it and the way he approaches it.

But the answer to that's no, man, I got to pick my son and get a haircut. Bibs. But the thing that's interesting, though, and this is a question for you, I always, I caught him in Golden State and just when he was just at a different time in his life. And I do wonder when we get into a little legacy talk, what Brooklyn did for that legacy, right? because let's be honest. I mean, I know there was the Achilles hair, but it was a lot of wasted years there of his pride, right? That could have just been put to, like,

I just wish, based on how everything went with that situation, um, I was there for, you know, maybe I, I parachuted in for a little bit. You had seen them, you know, a little bit. And it just was a toxic environment. What do you think that,

that does to, like I almost wish he was just on another team to where he could. Like, he's probably going to get dinged a lot for Brooklyn. What do you think that does for the ultimate legacy? Because he's a little later, longer in the tooth than Phoenix right now. I don't know how many years that they can sustain at this level. What do you think that Brooklyn time will do when we look back on his career? What do you think that it'll have an effect on him? I think it almost certainly derailed what his legacy.

ultimately could have been had he not gone there. And that's not to disparage whatever his legacy is going to wind up being. But, you know, those were just kind of wasted years in Brooklyn. Like, he played great when he was healthy and I'm not taking anything away from it. But the point is, you know, if he had wound up in another situation that was more stable and maybe you're not winning championships, but you're playing and getting close to them. You know, we always give LeBron credit for being in the finals as much as he is. He ain't won them all.

But his teams are getting there. And if he was in a situation that was more stable and would have allowed, you know, his talents and the ones around him to kind of get him to that spot. I think his ultimate, you know, the ultimate ending of his career and the legacy that it becomes would have been different. And I think that's fair, right? Because because, you know, it's hard to press pause on a, on a career that was, that was. or is as as like celebrated and phenomenal

as KD's is and like right in the middle of it kind of prime you pick a destination that was really unstable. I mean the injury doesn't help but but the winning doesn't come with that in the way that you would need to to continue to advance the narrative

about your legacy and that's purely what it is right. It's about the winning it's not about who he is as a player or what he did ultimately that legacy, he's in a realm of player that this isn't about whether you're a great score or not. This is about whether you're one of the top, however many people we want to argue about

to ever play the game. And in that conversation, we ultimately boil it down to winning. And hardware. Because he is a winner. I would say hardware. Yeah, he's a winner. But I mean the rings, sorry. The rings or we're playing in the finals, you know, shit like that. Because he has an interesting case, right? Like he beat LeBron, Prime LeBron

at the biggest stage. And you guys can say, oh, he had this person on his team. He had this person on his team head to head. He beat LeBron on the biggest stage twice. And so he has that like, he has two rings. He has that distinction of beating the greatest player on the planet at that time. And at least for two weeks, he could say, I was the greatest player on the planet. He could say that like twice in my career, for two weeks, I was the greatest player on the planet. And so he has that case to him. And I think that case immortalized him into the rarefied class that we're talking about where, okay, you're good enough to be in this stage. Like, is he, if he wins a couple more rings, are we speaking on him in the, that's the difference between where we speak on him now versus like, is he better than Larry Bird? Is he better than, he's not quite better than LeBron, but can he catch Larry? That's where we're kind of getting in terms of where he's at. And I think that's ultimately what the Brooklyn thing,

up, you know, the fact that he could have been into that, into that rare by class. That's exactly what I was saying. That's not, look, legacy is still a phenomenal legacy, right? We're now nitpicking. It's phenomenal legacy, but where it, if with continued, you know, runs to finals or winning championships, and we're assuming a lot, but if you take that three to four year span there and there was some more of that in that three to four year span, now we're having another conversation about another club you're in in terms of legacy.

And that's all I'm saying. I think you said it perfectly. Look, trust me. His legacy is solid with me. But we're talking about legacies, you know, as a goat legacy. And can we put you in the conversation with goat legacy? And I'm not talking about purely as a hooper. Like, I mean, if you want to debate his skill set and ability to score the ball and all

of that versus goats, we can do that all day. but I'm talking about accomplishment and overall, you know, rings and MVPs and shit like that. To play the Boston Celtics tonight, another reason why we're bringing this up. And he said some interesting stuff to also friend of the show, Dwayne Rankin of the Arizona Republic, Girl Stopping Grounds, Roger, basically saying that Jason Tatum is going to, one is an MVP candidate, obviously, but he is going to control the league when in this next guard. He is going to, I know I've been in this league

for a long time now and I know when it's a passing of the guard. I know when the young dudes are going to come in and do the same thing the older guys are doing and also believes that Jason Tatum is one of those guys that's likely going to control the league for the next 10, 12 years and be a staple in our game in the history of our game. I thought that was really important.

impressive. Just to say something like that. Just like what, because, you know, KD at this point, it's supposed to be like, yo, fuck the little dudes. You know what I mean? Like, I still got to shred on the tires. And it's saying that type of stuff. But more basic point of it, though, is you see a lot of Katie and Jason Tatum, right?

The, the tall, I don't even want to call him guard, wing, all these things. But you see that in Jason Tatum. Where do you think when he does get that baton that Tatum can't, what do you think he can do with it? Jason Tatum's a fantastic player. Jason Tatum is going to be one of the faces of the league. If he isn't already. Yeah, I mean, but he's going to carry that torch for sure because he is, but I don't know that it's KD for me. I just don't know that it's KD for me.

Now, in fairness to Jason Tatum, he's got a lot left to do. Sure. So we could be having this conversation. years from now and I'm like well yeah he was I just you know there's there's a lot to be done between now and then for jason tatum but he's an excellent you know score of the ball um for that size the type of athlete he is the skill set he possesses super difficult matchup um you know defensively continues to to get better I would guess like most young players uh you know and so if anyone's going to tell you, you know, who they think the face of the league is and who's got the game

to kind of and the ability to pull that off. If anyone's going to tell you that, it's the LeBron's, it's the KDs. So if they're talking, it's like EF Hutton, if they're talking, you need to be listening. Yeah. Because they recognize it. We could sit over here and, and debate all day. But when those dudes are telling you, hey, man, we strap them up against these cats. Like, these are the ones. People need to take note of that. Yeah. It's going to be a fun matchup. Can't wait. So I don't really tap into the early games that much because it's just like, you know, I still got my day going, but I'm going to tap in on Turner at 430, man. The Sun Celtics.

It's just going to be a vibe. 430. That's crazy. That's crazy. Well, also, like, and I know y'all jealous of this, we've done with our night at 1030. We get both of our games at 1030. We're done. Yeah.

We're out. Yeah. Hey. You know, I guess they're pluses and minuses. They're both, right? West Coast is the best coast. Y'all know what it is. It's how I'm on the West Coast real ones.

Y'all know the fives. You know what I mean? I could be I'd never watch a 430 game like it would it's impossible I mean no one actually on the west coast actually watches 430 games we're at the arena we're like we watch the end of it like we'll watch like the third third and a half to the fourth quarter type shit you know I mean we don't really like it's you know I'm not you ain't got no kids you ain't got no kids if you have if you have multiple kids of age to be playing a sport or have or have anything recreationally or that they have to do after school. This is really why y'all be hating on us, bro, because y'all don't watch us. No, I'm not hating. I'm not hating.

I'm just saying like 430 is impossible, but people ain't getting picked up from practice until 630. Like, we can't watch. You ain't tapping in. You ain't got it on your phone? You ain't got on the Turner app or the ESPN Plus or the tiki talk or some shit like that?

You don't got it. You ain't locked in on the, no? Okay. If I had to, maybe I would be, right? But since I don't have to be,

I know I'm not on the phone watching games on my phone. But I can barely. It's a whole other topic of conversation, man. This whole screen's blurry to me right now. That shit happened overnight. It happened overnight, man. I woke up. My son put his phone in my face.

And I was like, I grabbed it and I moved it back. And my dad was sitting next to me. And I, and, wait, do you have the readers now? No, I am about to put him on. I'm not going to do that. You got the readers? You got the readers? I'm not going to do that for you all to clip it and put me on a tiki time.

I fought it for as long as I could. I looked over my, I felt my dad burning a hole in the, like, side of my cheek. And I looked over it. like, man, what the? And he was cracking up. And he said, you mean, you don't remember when, when, when that happened to me. I was like, no, I don't. I was like, but it is blurry. And, uh, I went a couple weeks long like this. Oh, man. I told my wife, she tried to give me a pair of readers. I was like, man, get those get those out of my face, man. I am not wearing. I will not. I refuse.

There are a lot more exhalatives when you said that shit, but it was fine. Yeah. I could not. I could not. I could not. I could not. You over here looking at it. Again, bro. blurry. Crazy. So, so I like to tie it back to what you're saying, it's really difficult for me to watch a game on the phone because I can barely see it. I only got a few more years to say this, a few more decades to say this, but Roger, you old as hell. Let's get to a little segment we'd like to call a real one of the week. I don't have a real one, Roger.

So I'm just going to find one until you go. What do you got? Where are we going? What's going on? Not a ton of stuff. But for me, I guess I'll go with Seekwan Barkley. try to get a deal done with the New York football giants last year. It didn't work out.

Running back market is what it is. They can't get paid. And he finally finds somebody who values him to some degree with the Philadelphia Eagles. It's going to be a good spot for him with A.J. Brown, J. Brown, Jalen Hertz, the Slim Reaper. I was happy for him, man, because, I mean, people are saying he got overpaid for a running back, so on and so forth. But man, that man's much more than a running back, a la Christian McCaffrey. Like those dudes, they represent more than just running the football. And so I was happy for him.

And he was a good soldier. What was more impressive was, you know, he didn't hold out. He didn't do any of that stuff. He went to camp. He played football. He was there for his teammates. He did all of the stuff like a good soldier. And he was rewarded at the end.

So I give a shout out to Sequin. Real one. I'm going to go with the NFL as well. I'm going to go to the Las Vegas Open L.A. Raiders. signing D-Tackle Christian Wilkins. Big fan. Big fan of that signing. Gardner Midschew, I don't know.

Don't, I knew you were going to ask me. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, the dolphins ain't happy would you guys sign at Christian Wilkins. I'll tell you that. Shit, they'll be all right. It'll be fine.

I don't care. It's fine. We ain't got no, Raiders, they got no quarterback, though. What do you think about Gardner, is you think you're going to do something with the Raiders? Like, I don't know. It's either him or 80 McConnell.

I like Gardner Mitch. I like me or you competing for the quarterback. back spot. Stop it. But don't disrespect Gardner, Manchu and Aiden O'Connell. Boy, I wish you would. I, you know, I will not participate in that. I am not participating in that.

Absolutely not. Those dudes, they might not be Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes, and that's fair. But there are not too many people on a planet that you could take, have them drop that football in the one foot, like, radius

that it has to be a fair point. to be placed in 47 yards down the field on the run. And there are a couple of them. I'm going to say this. I remember I played quarterback in high school. I remember going to Elite 11 for the first time. Like this is a regional camp and being like. I'm going to go into journalism.

Think of a right. Oh, shit. No, real talk. I don't know if I told this story. And I remember, we're just vibes, 57 minutes. I remember, I think I might have told you this story, maybe offline, maybe on the podcast. But I remember I went to, I was on a passing league against McCleman's High School, Marcus Peters.

I might have told you this offline. And they were playing a cover two. And I thought that I could get the, I could get the football in the window before the safety comes. Just throw it in that window. A whole shot. I thought I could get one, right? Yep. Marcus Peters jumped in the middle of the zone, one-handed it, picked me off,

didn't even run to the end zone, just ran to me and said, here. Oh, I just take that. With an expletive, with an expletive, but it was like here. For everybody, my dad was at the stand. So disrespectful, bro. It's tough. That's tough. So you got to be choking that stuff.

So, you know. Wait, wait, wait, were you, let me, let me ask you a question. Were you, were you trying to hole shot him like up the sideline behind the corner and before the safety? Or were you trying to split the field like and hit something like a post or something in the middle to the safety separate? Like, where were you throwing that ball? I was just trying to hit a little fade route. I was just trying to hit it. And he knew what I was doing as soon as I did it.

And he just, he just one-handed it, took it. Here. Ah. Yeah, here you go. I was like, yeah. Oh, that's tough. I'm not making this. This is not going to be my career.

I'm not doing it. We knew he was going to the league when we was eight. You know what I'm saying? Like, we already knew. No BS though. Like, because, you know, I've toured a little bit and I've been going around as we've seen schools with Dia and stuff like that. So occasionally, you know, I'll sit in and listen to the coaches talk, talk football.

I don't, I don't get to do that with him in high school. So, you know, it's the first few times I'm hearing. It's like I said to one coach. I was like, this is like another language, but it's like Chinese. Yes. Like really,

it's like it would be like trying to learn like Arabic or or Chinese or something I have no familiarity with. Like I do not know what you're saying. And not only that. Every team has a, every coach has a different language for the same thing. But it's just a different line. It's,

it's wild. Yeah. I remember I saw, I told you this. I saw Lamar Jackson just fucking around at a training camp. And I'm like, this is the most athletic person I've ever seen in my life. It's like,

I'm, there's no way. There's no way. Freaky. Anyways, a little housekeeping before we get out of here. Real onesmailbag.com. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com.

Real ones mailback at gmail.com. Taping with us on Mondays. We got Howard Beck. Other fucking mailbags. We'll answer your questions. You will get amazing moments like we did on Monday with the tiki talk. We will see you guys on Monday with Howard Beck. Tap in.

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