The Ringer NBA Show - Chris Bosh on Getting the Heatles Together and Much More. Plus: Chris Paul Is the Suns’ Secret Sauce. | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 10, 2021

Logan and Raja talk about what Chris Paul has done on and off the court to boost this Suns team through the postseason after they mollywhopped the Nuggets in Game 2 of the second round (0:53), whether the Nuggets can take a game in this series (22:23), and their predictions for Thursday night’s games (25:30). Then two-time NBA champion and Hall of Famer Chris Bosh joins the show to talk about coming to terms with retirement, the process of putting the Heatles together, his new book 'Letters to a Young Athlete,' and so much more (32:36).  Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Chris Bosh Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if the Len Bias story hosted by Jordan Ritter-Con is the ringer's latest narrative podcast. You can find new episodes every Wednesday on the Book of Basketball 2.0 feed. Here's a quick trailer. You've heard his name, Lynn Bias, 1980s phenom, second pick in the NBA draft. And then, cocaine, tragedy, one of the most shocking deaths in sports history. 35 years later, Bias' legacy is still making an impact. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, this is What If, the Lynn Bias story. I'm Jordan Ritter-Con.

What's popping? Logan Murdoch here. Raja Bill, Sasha Mac on the boards, Chris Bosch and a few. Raja, I'm glad that I'm talking to you right now because it is on the morning after the Phoenix Suns mollywapped, the Denver Nuggets. It was a close game to start. And that third quarter, it just got, it got ugly. It got real ugly. Phoenix Suns look really impressive.

I know on group chat, Waz said that there are teams that maybe newer teams that, you know, see an injured team and they don't really, they don't really give them the bona fide respect that they deserve and they just, you know, maybe they'll play down to the competition.

Phoenix Suns didn't do that. They straight up Maliwop, the Denver Nuggets. On the game after, Yokic is named MVP, or it's reported that he, he is the MVP. Obviously, I'm impressed by this team. I think that they're going to go to the finals.

What do you think about the Phoenix Suns right now? No, that, that, it's, it's pretty cool to watch them play, Logan. First of all, I don't know how much I agree with, you know, them just respecting the hell out of Denver and giving them. I think they would, like, they're just built, they're built to play like this. They're built to come in there and, you know, I play who you put out there against me. It's not my fault that anyone's injured or not injured. Like, I don't give a shit.

I'm coming out there to play. I'm trying to win a championship. And they look singularly focused like that. They're there to try to win a chip. Now, you know, we had the conversation about real versus not real. And that was a little bit more nuanced than it probably came across as they are squarely in the conversation right now for a team that can win a championship. When I watched that game last night and it was a blowout, like everybody had 11 to 19 for Phoenix. was scoring. You know, I mean, like it was just across the board. But defensively, Logan,

what they're doing defensively is is suffocating, man. Like, yeah, I was watching them during the blowout. Like, as the game was already probably put away mathematically by NBA standards, and every single catch that Denver had, it was a closeout with high hands running you off of a shot. Like, they weren't conceding anything. And that is suffocating. That's a problem. them for people. What is it, when you talk about defense and things like that, what it takes, obviously, there's great individual defenders on the Phoenix Sun's team. You know, you talk about Jay Crowder, Aiden at times when he's on in Falchow, he's played great defensively. It's one thing to be coached up defensively, but what is it to have a mindset like they did, especially in the second

half where everyone's swarming, everyone is playing, is locked in, is that coaching, is that mindset, What kind of goes into that, Roger, when you are trying to have a defensive presence in the postseason? There are few factors. I mean, coaching is clearly one component of it, right? Like, that's got to be something that's established as your culture. You don't become one of the better teams in the NBA defensively without a coach, you know, preaching that, without your philosophies being implemented and having strong, you know, foundation and what you're trying to do defensively. you know, having personnel really helps too, Logan. And, you know, when you look at their starting lineup and they got Jay Crowder,

Mikel Bridges, DeAndre, and Chris Paul, Devin Booker, you're switching one through four. Yeah. And your four isn't like a bad switch. Your four is a very solid switch on a one. Do you know what I mean? So it's not like we're putting two guys out there that can't really successfully switch, but we'll try to switch the four and let him get baked. If you're switching very effectively one through four.

And the other part of it is just mindset and mentality. I could give you someone who's not super gifted physically. And if he's a dog and he's got a will to get out there and grind and grit and grab and make an extra effort on every possession, I can give you a good defender. But you can't put that in some people. You know, some people just don't have that. The Phoenix Sons have a bunch of dudes who are built like that. And so the willingness to get out there on every possession

and just try to take away what you want to do defensively, it comes across on the broadcast. And, you know, I was joking last week about the comparisons between you, your team and the Phoenix Suns. But you guys, on the Phoenix Suns, you guys had really great individual defenders. Yourself, you had Sean Mary, you had tricks. What was the difference you think in the coaching of defense

then when you guys were playing, particularly with your team versus what you see from this Phoenix Sun's team, right? Because it seems like they are locked in, whereas you guys had really, really good individual defenders, but couldn't put it together defensively. What do you think is the differences between those two teams? First of all, as much as I love Mike, and I do love Mike, I think he's great. Our focus was offense. It's what we came in and we did every day.

We shot hundreds of shots pre-practice. We shot hundreds of shots post-practice. and most of what we did was based around how we were going to play offensively. I liked it. I loved playing in it. I thought it was great. But that becomes what you default to, right? If that's what's preached to you all the time in the fourth quarter down to a minute

and a half to go and you have to have a stop, that's got to be beaten into you that we are a defensive, defensively tough and sound team. We didn't necessarily do that, right? Yeah. And that's okay. Like, you know, it's what it is, right? Some coaches are defensive minded, some are offensive minded. But I think, you know, it wasn't beaten into us like that.

And then secondly, like, we did have some really talented and defenders on that team. Sean Marion was just a Swiss Army knife of a defender. But you're only as strong as your weakest link defensively. And all, we didn't have willing participants across the board defensively. Now, Steve Nash was a willing participant. There were just, you know, limitations with what he could do. defensively. He tried. He was executing his game plan. Like, you know, he

and I have talked about this. This isn't slander. Like, there was only so much he could do. He was tasked with so much offensive responsibility. But we had other pieces that didn't really mind if they blew a coverage. And, you know, as that starts to happen, like, I might, I might stay with

it because I'm defensive minded as, as a perimeter player for the next three possessions after, you know, somebody behind me didn't do their job. But on the fourth possession, human nature kicks in. You're like, well, what the am I doing? Yeah. Like I'm out here busting my ass trying to, you know,

lock this down and keep it where it's supposed to be and push it to where it's supposed to go and no one's there. Like, and I know I'm running off at the mouth, but do you remember I talk to you about this clip all the time? They show it every time they show a Kobe highlight. Yeah, I was sorry. Yeah. That's what I'm talking about that.

Kobe's at the top of the key. I'm on Kobe. And you could see that I jump to a side, right? If you're really watching it. All it looks like to Kobe fans is that he blows by me and he dunks that shit. But you were waiting on a guy to help you. That was a coverage call. That's a coverage call.

So I'm doing my job, jumping to the side trying to force him, and my coverage wasn't there for me. And that, look, one play out of a million, so what? But when that's over and over again, it eats away at the fabric of who you are defensively as a team. Yeah. One other things that their defense has been amazing, but one of the biggest things that I've seen,

and it's really been a narrative here, is this the addition of Chris Paul. And that was something that we talked about in the beginning of the season after he was in Oklahoma City, where, you know, I thought it was just going to make him a five seed, make the sons a five seed. I didn't know they were going to be ready to be a two seed and be a title contender because of Chris Paul. Not to say that, I just didn't think they were ready.

Everybody else was ready. But he's been great for them. And it's not necessarily scoring. It's finding, you know, using the pick and roll to find guys to attack, right? He was attacking my reporter junior a lot last night or even just getting people in the right play. How does he kind of unlock everything else? right? Because they do have a franchise guy like Devin Booker. They do have a guy in waiting and DeAndre J. and DeAndre Aden who they think is going to be one of those guys. But what does Chris Paul at least do for the short term to unlock those guys?

Well, it's it's twofold for me, right? Let's just talk about off, like not necessarily on the court in terms of what he does to make offense work. But in the locker room, on the planes, on the buses, in the breakfast meetings, in short, shootarounds, someone is there to lead. You know, as great as Devin Booker is, and I'm not saying that he's not a leader, because I have no idea, but he's young. And sometimes you develop into that, right? And I can't say that he's had a great role model to learn how to lead from. Sometimes that's helpful, too. You've got a guy that is having the conversations that are keeping the relationships healthy, right? You have a guy that's not afraid to hold someone accountable, even if it's going to ruffle feathers for this afternoon knowing that it'll pay dividends tomorrow night when we get on

the court. Yeah, he might be mad at me in the short term, but this is what we have to do to be be the best version of ourselves. Like, you have a guy doing that now, right? Someone leading. I'll use like a football or soccer analogy, right? Like football, you can have a dope running back. You can have two gangster receivers, a decent O line. If you don't have a quarterback, distributing that ball, like calling checks at the line of scrimmage, making sure that the protection is slid where it needs to go. Like, it's all for not. Like, that shit don't work.

You just got a bunch of talent that hasn't been put together and hasn't, you know, been used the right way. Soccer, like, I think it's center mid, right? You got great strikers and people that can play. But if you can't play through the middle of that field or wherever and they can't distribute that ball, you just got a bunch of talent that isn't tied together. He ties it all together. Okay, soccer reference.

Okay, soccer reference. We see you. We see you. We saw that. But building on that question, like, is like, Chris Paul is not going to be in the league. forever, right? He's probably not going to be on the Phoenix Suns forever. But do you think that he's one of those guys? I think about Kyrie and LeBron, right? Kyrie was a certain type of player before LeBron got there and a certain type of player after. Do you see that with this Phoenix Sun's team,

right? Like when the Chris Paul influence is there, but he's not necessarily there, do you think that Devin Booker or DeAndre Aden or McHale Bridges can use that? It went, once he's gone, still keep that organizational mindset that Chris has kind of helped build during the season? That's going to be the question of the son's future. I tend to think that, when I referenced it a minute ago, that having a good leadership, having a good role model in terms of leadership is important. You know, being a young, I've talked about this at lengths on the pods, coming into an organization where you've got great vets that are role models.

even better if that vet that you're a vet is a star and you and you watch him and you learn how to lead and he's a successful star and he's and you guys are winning and that's not always the case for these super talented guys that go in early you know in the lottery right they go to bad teams typically that means you don't have a great great like superstar vet but i think that there is going to be some rub off left there from chris paul on on d'andre aitens and the and the and the um devon bookers i'll also say this logan because we haven't really been super I know this is a star-driven pod. I said this when the heat got him probably, was it a year ago? I said this when they got Jay Crowder. I said this man is going to be exactly what the heat are going to need. At the time, it was with Jimmy Butler, because he is about all of the stuff that they are about. It's very similar in this situation.

Chris Paul's phenomenal. But the Jay Crowders of the world, like those guys are the fabric or part of that fabric as well. Yeah, it was funny. I was trying to, before this pot, I was trying to find a way to work in Jay Crowder. I just didn't know the question to do it, but I'm glad you brought him up

because, you know, I don't want to speak for you, but he seems like of the ilk that you're in, right? Like that one of those guys that are, that is a dog that is going to play defense, that is maybe not seen as, you know, even a Wantee who isn't seen as like the most talented dude on the floor, but he works his ass off, right? There's somebody that has clawed

and to stay in this league, right? You obviously need superstars, but you need a Jay Crowder or a Roger Bell or those guys that really, you know, they're not who people come to see, but they are the people that really make the team go, well, why is it important to have the Roger Bells, the Jay Crowders, and, you know,

those other superstar-type role players that you usually identify with? You know, like movies have, stars, right? You take your favorite star in a movie, and sometimes they can carry movies. But often, in great movies, you have a great supporting cast, right? You have people that do other jobs and, you know, help develop characters and do things like that that really add to the quality of the movie. A guy like Jay Crowder, there's really no ego. Like, I had an ego, so I don't want to say that. He's got an ego. But we understand our place in the hierarchy. I'm not going to eat before

Sean Marion, Steve Nash, Amari Stademeyer, Leandro Barbosa, and Boris Diao. That doesn't mean there's not still enough left on the table for me, but I know that I'm not going to eat in front of them. So my job becomes really clear. You kind of let go of the to Fizz's point, Fisdale, when we had him on. Like you let go of the me and it becomes about the we. Whatever that means to your team, right? So it might mean one night I don't score. Like we talked and you made fun about me, Guard and Kobe and getting four shots.

but that's my job that night. You know, like 31 minutes on the floor, I get four shots. You know, we didn't win that, but if we do, I've done my job. The next time we play them, I might get 12 shots if that's what it calls on. And I got to step up there. And so those guys and multiple guys like that playing roles, you know, I talked to Jackie MacMullin this morning, like she's doing a piece on Steve. And so we were talking, all stars need a bodyguard, dog.

All of those teams, all of those dudes need somebody that's going to step up if push comes to shove and do what Juan T said he was going to do, you know, if he needed to, or what I told you I would do, or what Kurt Thomas would do, or, you know, you need those dudes to stand up and be like, now, shit's not flying in this house. You see Blake Griffin doing it now. Yeah, what's funny, because it's like, people used to do that for him. People used to do that for Blake. Correct. But now that's his role. And so it really is integral to team success, man, because, you know, stars win for sure. But, you know, you have to have the support of the rest of that team in the effort to get that championship ring.

It's funny because even talking to you and behind the scenes and about role players, I always think like, you talk, brought up ego. And, you know, when you're a fan, ego seems like such a bad word, right? It always seems like it's, you know, this guy's egotistical. He lives above his head or whatever. But when, you know, you're around the league, ego, in my opinion, is necessary. Now, as much ego as you have and how much. you let it consume, you might mess you up.

But what is the necessary ego that a role player needs to have or that an NBA player needs to have in general? Because you have to at least think highly of yourself. You have to be like, yo, I'm going to fucking make this basket when it counts. That's what you did in the Clipper series in the semifinals, right? You have to have that, but you also have to have a balance where, no, Steve Nash is the star of this team and I have to, and that's what keeps us all rolling. How do you have to balance that?

And how do a Jay Crowder and these other role players have to. balance that ego to where it doesn't fuck up the team, but have enough of it to where it actually builds the team up. Well, that's why Jay Crowder is where Jay Crowder is. That's why I was able to be where I was. That's why Juan T is where Juan T is. There probably, or let me want to speak for myself, there were better basketball players than me. They probably deserve to be in the NBA if you're talking about athleticism, skill, and all of that. Before, I deserve to be in the NBA. I was just able to understand while I do view myself as a damn good basketball player, I've been the best player on every team I've ever been on since I was in this eighth grade.

You know, like, it's just what it is. It's not a brag. It's what it's what it is to get to that point. But I'm not the best player on the team anymore. And I'm not going to be the best player on the team going forward. So I can still firmly believe in myself given the opportunity, but I got to figure out, you know, what my role is and be able to say, right like there's levels to this shit baby and unfortunately you ain't on that level so what what can

you do to make a living out of this how can we be a part of something um as cool as the NBA and a lot of guys can't figure that out they keep they keep going into camps or they keep trying out for teams in the mode of I'm the best player on any team I've ever been in and that's the way I'm going to work out today so just give me the ball and get the fuck out of my way no one's looking for that in a in a in a workout with, you know, free agents. Now, you'll score buckets just because you're good, but they want to see you do the things that they can plug you into an NBA game and you can do, the things that kind of translate,

because they're not necessarily throwing you out there from a free agent camp to the first season of an NBA game. Like, you're not going to be the guy, man. They have four guys. You're coming off the bench. They're going to ask you to dig in and defend and, you know, knock down a shot here or there. And a lot of people can't do what you're talking about, Logan,

put that ego aside, you know, in an effort to make the league even, not just to win games. That was funny because remember when Juan T said last week, he was like, yeah, everybody wanted to score. And he's like, motherfucker, that's not why I'm here. Like, I was literally not why I'm here. And I, like, but it's funny to when you hear all that around because score, score, score means if you score 20 points to the average fan, that was better than you getting, you know, the hockey assist right there or that big steel down the stretch or guarding a Kobe Bryant.

or a Steph for 35 minutes, right? I succumb to that last week. You know what I mean? And that's something that you constantly have to deal with. Time to get to the baggage claim. We'll be right back. I was watching the game last night. And I was listening to Kevin Harlan.

First started with Kevin Harlan. Then I went into the TNT crew. And they were talking about Devin Booker. And they saw, they were like, oh, I see that eye. I've seen that eye before. That's that Mamba eye. That's that Kobe I, right? I don't want to, we could get those comparisons to the second.

But what I, it's, it was interesting to me because 20 years ago, they were doing the same thing with Kobe and Michael Jordan, right? And I don't know. I had just some conflicted feelings on that, right? I had conflicting feelings on, because I want book to have his autonomy as a player. You know what I mean? It's, it just seems like I don't want that narrative to be on him because it'll always be. on him for better or worse. If he like, oh, he has that look.

Okay, Kobe was his mentor, yes. Kobe was somebody that, you know, that really liked him, yes. But am I wrong for thinking like, eh, I don't know if I really want that for a play? Because we saw that, we saw that in Kobe's career for the whole career that he embraced the Michael George comparisons. And it was like, you can't talk about Kobe without Mike. And I kind of want that Devin Booker to have his autonomy because Devin Booker is that dude. How do you feel about those types of comparisons between two plays? players. I don't think you're wrong for one, him to be able to to be himself. I think it's natural

that you're going to get, you know, when someone has been, you know, publicly known to be, you know, your idol and kind of a mentor to you, it's natural for that to happen. So I don't see book in Kobe's game as being very similar, though. I mean, he might have, he might have picked, you know, Kobe's brain and I'm sure he's implemented some things from Kobe. But in terms of their true style of play. I don't, I don't see them as being as similar as Mike and Kobe would look at times, if that makes sense, right? Like, from a walk. I mean, Kobe would go out of his way to be like, to like do the tongue, do everything like Mike. Right. I don't, I don't necessarily. So I think, so I think, I think what I'm saying to you is maybe you don't have to even worry because I don't know

that you're going to wind up in that level of comparison at the end of the day because there aren't as many similarities. I think what they're referring to is that that time, when those grates get into that mode where you can see that they know there's blood in the water and they're, it's time to feed. And they know when they're timely with it.

They know when to take it over. They know when to ring off, even if he had 18 last night, run off four in a row real quick, just to push that separation out to a point where the other team knows it's definitively over. Like the great ones have that. I think he's got that.

And I think that's what they were referring to. For sure. We talked about the supporting cast of Phoenix, right? We talked about, you know, everything that they've done well. Everything that they've done well is about as bad. As good as Phoenix has been with their supporting cast, that's been about as bad as Denver's supporting cast has been around Yokic over the last couple of games.

Do you think that it's a, I know that their defense has been trash, so is their three-point. percentage. But is it a function of Murray not being out of being out and not being in the lineup? Is it a function of that more so? Or did they need to figure out some other things that they need to do? Because it does seem like too much pressure is being put on Yokic in this point to where, you know, similar to LeBron and the Lakers when they went out, right? There's so much pressure on him that it just doesn't seem like it's going to work long term until you get a secondary scoring option. Do you think it's other guys trying to step up to fill Murray's void and it's just not working?

Or do they just need to step up? What do you think did the remedy for Denver to get back in this series? Suit up Jamal, Murray, and Will Barton next game. Like, if you're not, I mean, if you're not going to do that, there's nothing, you're not getting back in this series, bro. That's not happening. The Phoenix Suns are, look, the Phoenix Suns have caught some lucky breaks. They caught the Lakers, not healthy. They caught Denver, you know, unhealthy.

there's nothing to be ashamed of there. Every championship team on their run gets a break or two, avoids the injury bug and plays well. Those three things have to happen for you. Because it takes love to win a championship. Absolutely. So there's no apologies needed.

Dog, it is what it is. We're playing you. But Denver's missing Jamal Murray. Like, Monti Morris, it's Monty Morris, right? Monti Morris, I'm bad with names, but that man can get you buckets. Like, he can get you buckets.

Austin Rivers can get you buckets. But there's a reason, you know, they're in the roles that they're in. That's not an every night thing for them. You don't, I've talked about this. You don't want them dudes having to carry heavy weight night in and night out. Those are for broad, broad, broad shoulders. Only a small percentage of NBA players fit that bill, right?

Yolkich, Jamal Murray, and maybe Michael Porter, Jr. But see, Michael Porter Jr. right now is a jump shooter. Like, he's a spot-up shooter. Andy thinks he's a star. He might very well be a star, but he's not. not there yet. Correct. He's on the ascension.

What he needs to do is go back to the lab this summer and figure out how to get some more of KD in his game. Like he's got a wet, but he's got to go back and figure out how he can create for himself. Because right now he don't create for himself like that. And so that's how Jamal Murray ties that together. He's another creator for himself and for other people. And so it puts guys in their normal role.

I catch a shoot. I can play off of Jamal. a playoff of Nikola Yokic, and then Yokic gets the support he needs where he don't have to facilitate and create plays the entire game. Yeah, we'll see what happens, man. Let's get into, let's get into predictions really quickly before we get to Chris Bosch. Now, we have Clippers Jazz. I'll go first and I'll throw you to you.

Clippers Jazz, I really like what DeMarcus cousins did. If he could stay out of foul trouble, I do like him as an extra big that can, you know, that can hit threes. that can post up has to stay out of foul trouble. But I got the Clippers in this game. And the reason why the Clippers in this game is game one felt like one of those games where, yeah, man, I got the Clippers in this. I don't know.

I got the Clippers in the game too, man. I don't know. I have them. And I'm just going to go with that. I think that they might do that. I don't know why. I just have faith in the Clippers in game two. The Clippers are funny like that, though, right?

Because when you think that they're not going to win something, they wind up surprising you. So I think I've just, I think I've just have that in my mind of just, again, the Dallas series. And they just tricked me. And maybe they might trick me again. But I have the clippers going in the game, too. Who you got? Let me double down on what you just said real quick.

They were also, Reggie Jackson was out down the stretch too. It was a huge piece. Like, I don't think people touched on that enough. He had been playing great. And he was in foul trouble and couldn't be on the floor at the end of the game. There's part of me that I understand exactly what you're saying, Logan. I understand because there's like, 49% of me that says the Clippers are going there and win game two.

They were off of a seven game series. That is a trap game. If there's ever a trap game, Utah is a super difficult place to play. That team was on five days rest waiting for you. You roll in there. Emotions are probably down. And you had a shot. You had a shot that could have, what, tied it at the end of the game.

Like you were right there. A few bad possessions down the stretch. Some guys in foul trouble. But, but I'm going to take the Utah Jazz tonight. man. They're playing wait, is Michael Conley Jr.? What's the word on that? I'm going to take Utah. I'm going to take Utah. I'm going to take Utah.

For no other reason and no one's going to be mad at me if I pick Utah and they lose, right? If I pick the clippers and the jazz win, I'm going to get smashed. So I'm going to take the jazz. I think it's another close one. Did you get your pressure in at picking the jazz just now? Is that what happened? I like the jazz. Chad didn't shoot well first quarter.

you know, they were without one of their, you know, best playoff performers right now. I think the jazz figure it out, but it's like 51, 49. Okay. Percent.

All right. All right. I don't know. You kind of hedged your bet on that one, bro. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. You said, I don't know if I can go back. I don't know.

Okay. All right. All right. I don't know. Let's go. Buck's Nets. Now, we were told that this was going to be an epic series,

all the stuff, everything. and the net straight up just mollywapped the buck's first two games. I'm going to pick the bucks just because I hope that they have some pride about themselves. And I think it's just that I just hope that they, you know, the home crowd, role players tend to play better at home. And they need this game. They just need this game. We all know how game three is when you're down O2 going back home.

You need to just blow the brakes off of Brooklyn. and I just think, you know, everything that they talked about against Miami, I hope that they back it up that this is different. I just, as a point of pride, I'm going to pick the Milwaukee Bucks. Who do you pick for game three of this series? The Bucks are going to win tonight. Oh, you're, oh, you're. That's just a straight up guarantee.

That's it. The Bucs are going to win tonight. And if they don't, Raja. And if they don't, then I mean, then I'm wrong again. I just, you know, when you Typically, man, you get whoop like that, you go home.

You know, that shit weighs heavy on everybody, man. That's not a loss. That was an ass whooping. You have to know, and I don't think I'm spilling beans on this podcast, that the powers that be in Milwaukee

are doing everything they can do behind the scenes to influence the way the game is going to be called the night, the perceived like non-fowl, on certain players versus other players. Like there's all of that jostling for position going on behind closed doors. I'd even go as far as to say it makes more sense for the NBA to get a series out of this.

Wait, wait, do you have your third eye open? Do you got your Coofy on right now? You got your, are you right here? Are you here with it? You know where I'm at? The Milwaukee Bucks will win tonight. That's where I'm at. You know, I think that it's funny because this is one of those games, and you know this,

There's one of those teams every year where shit just has to go right or it goes completely wrong. Whereas, you know, Coach Bud right now is coaching for his job right now. And he has to win. It's one of those games where it just feels like, yo, we put the chips on the table. We got you, Drew Holiday. We got Chris Middleton. You have to figure all this stuff out. This is for you to make sure that this happens.

And you kind of get the sense to go, at least for me going to this game three, that like, yo, if this don't pop, it's probably going to be a sweep. and bud we're looking at you funny player i agree i agree with you and i don't know if i said this before but the the the the miami heat or the absolute worst draw for the milwaukee bucks in the first first round man because the level of you when people say having their eyes on the prize like the prize is the championship so if you become if you become too excited about a serious prior to the championship, you've taken your eyes off the prize.

And the bucks, I think, they were so consumed with exercising the demons from last year, which specifically the heat, that I could make the case that they just took their eyes off the prize, man. And it's really, it was just an awful draw for them in the first round. Now, I still pick them to win tonight. I agree with you 100% on Bud. Like, hey, man, that, hey, you're a tough spot, bro.

But we'll see you tonight. That's interesting that you said that. Because we've had teams that have lost in previous post seasons and just go are locked in for the next season. And they try to exercise those demons. But I think that the problem people, the teams face is that they try to exercise demons on one team. No, you're trying to exercise a lot of shit. You're trying to like, no, bro, you're at the end of the day, Milwaukee, you're still in the second round where we, by and large, just expect you to be. and our biggest gripe is that you don't get past the second round.

So now you need to figure that part out. That's the demons you need to exercise. So we'll see what happens, man. We both got the bucks. And I think that we're just holding on my thread on this. We're just like, yo, y'all got to hold us down on this. You guys got to hold us down. So, yeah, man.

Man, that was a dope conversation. Now on to Chris Bosch. And we are back. Rewan's Logan Murdoch here, Raja Belt. Raja, I let you do the honors on this one because every time we have an NBA player, it just seems right when you do the intros. Raja, who do we have in the building?

Yeah, we have a Georgia Tech legend. Don't know how he got out of his home state, except we got a little backstory before we came on air. He was a beast up in the T-DOT before he came down to Miami and started winning chips. We have one, Chris Bosch on the show. Welcome to the show, Chris. What's up, fellas? Man, thank you. That was a nice intro, man.

I appreciate that. Absolutely, bro, absolutely. What's this been like, what's retirement been like for you, Chris? Because I've always seen you as someone that plays. And every time we talk to a retired athlete, there's always seems like somebody, it's a reinvention that they have to make for themselves. And sometimes it has to be hard. Sometimes it's easier.

How has that transition been for you? It's been difficult. I'm not going to lie. It's been difficult. It's been a process. But it's just like basketball for me, right? trying to be successful was a process. It was difficult. And one thing I always kind of point to when I tell people,

I'm going into retirement, we have to find out who we are. I had to spend time with myself, with my family, and just figure out who you are, who I am, because all these things have happened. You know how fast time flies. And I got to a point where it was amazing. Wow, all I ever did was play back. basketball, which was amazing. That's what I wanted. I wanted to be the best. And I had other interests, but basketball for the better part of my life. So, you know, it's just I had to find out what I like, find out what I don't like, get used to my children. They had to get used to me. I got five kids. So you can imagine that having kids and dogs in the house is noisier. At pregame nap, there's no such thing as that pregame nap. It's no such thing as that pregame anymore. That was like a moment of time that my wife carved out for me, you know, and helped me

with, you know. So it's just really getting used to the real world and interpreting that. And then just figuring out where you stand after that. And I just kind of followed my heart in a lot of things. And, you know, I was able to make some cool things. And it's been a great ride so far. Chris, let me ask you, man, because, you know, by most accounts, like the career came to an end, not really on your own terms, right? Like, and a lot of us hope to go out kind of on those terms. So I know that had to be difficult. But did you find, like, for the hardest thing for me was finding,

I still felt like I had some competitive juice left in me that I didn't get out. So transitioning into that post-NBA, like life, and you talked about all fascinating things because I have four kids. I mean, you got, God bless you, bro, like five, I couldn't even imagine. But did you find? What did you find? that competitive void because that's a hard thing to really find you know really I got it all out for the next two years I tried getting back into the league I tried everything from talking to

doctors to um doing intermittent medicine to just trying to gather data to present to maybe even play so I was working out I was still in the gym for another two years and you know it just kind of the flames just went away. And mainly, I always tell the story, mainly is after I saw Gordon Hayward dislocate his ankle. You know, I hadn't watched basketball in a year up to that point. And I was kind of, you know, not done with the game, but just kind of in a space where I said, you know, I need to get into it. This is what I'm going to do because I need to do this. And the first game I watched in the first quarter, the first five minutes, he dislocates his ankle. And so that was the moment for me when I was like, yeah, I mean, you know how it is. I've been out of the game for like a year

and a half, two years now. It's going to be an incredibly hard to get back into it. You know, I don't think I can do this anymore, you know, and I had to come to that realization. We're talking to you right now because you have, because you have released a book called letters to young athletes. And one of the biggest things, and I read a bit of it, and it was really interesting. You were basically, it was an advice book, and you were giving advice to younger athletes.

What would you kind of advice would you give yourself as you right now, going into the Chris Bossett early 20s that is making that decision in free agency to go to the Miami Heat? What would you say to yourself if you would do that? The old classic cliches, stay the core. or something. You can come on here talking about no state of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to let you come on here talking about state of course.

Here's the thing. What am I going to tell yourself? Am I going to tell myself something that's going to deviate my, where I'm at? You know what I'm saying? So what am I going to tell myself something that, you know what I mean? I watch back to the future all the time. You know, it's like you can't mess with the past, you know. But I would, I would, really, I would tell myself, you're going to have to

take some lumps, man. It's going to be hard. It's going to be difficult. If this is what you're trying to do, that's great. Just know that you're going to have some fights coming. It's going to be tough, but you'll get through it. You got to just, you know, really keep putting the work in and focus on what you're supposed to do. That was always the main thing that helped for me, you know, because I love basketball. And that was a thing that kept me straight. So when I was a professional, to make that decision. What was important to me was an NBA championship. And I ask guys, I ask, you know, different legends in the game, Dr. Jay, Magic, Bill Walton, you know, I was asking for advice. And, you know, I took their collective opinion and made it my own. And so, yeah, that's what I

tell myself. Just know that it's great to celebrate, but just, you know, you might take, you're going to take some blows, but just you got to keep going. You got to get back up and keep going. Chris, I always wanted to ask because I lived down in this market, right? And so, you know, you guys would be playing for championships and I'd be home in the summertime. And I'm listening to Sports Talk Radio and stuff like that. And as the big three comes together, I always felt like the biggest sacrifice had to be made by you. And I felt that from the outside, you know, looking in. And then I spent some time with LeBron, Kyrie. and Kevin Love in Cleveland. And I felt like Kevin Love was in the same kind of place you were in with the heat, where on your own, you guys were phenomenal players.

But to make this work collectively, someone had to give up the most of themselves. And to me, it looked like you guys. Am I right in that? And then I would ask, like, how'd you deal with that? I mean, ultimately, championships were won. You clearly got to a good place with it. But how hard was that? It was extremely difficult.

and the interesting thing about our team was that we were still pretty young getting together. Usually in that type of environment, guys are later in their careers. More has been established, right? Yeah, very much established, and they know for sure they have given it. They're all, now they have to do something else and make another decision. We were kind of in a more flexible position, you know, so, you know, that was a part of it. And then, of course, you have the Miami-Heist style.

So it's a very teamwork-oriented style. That's why I talk about it so much in my book, because I knew the things I had my dreams and aspiration that I thought I wanted, right? Or you get to this place where if I'm not scoring, if I don't get 20 and 10, then am I successful? You know, them pushing me more to be more of a defender you know, that was a huge difference.

And me, just taking it on and just trying to figure things out. But it was extremely difficult. I'm not going to lie. It was, and it changed every year. You know, that was one of the hard parts. You know, we just had to, it was like a constant conversation, just constant, you know, yeah, constant conversation, constant teamwork, constantly trying to figure things out, you know, because it wasn't easy. Chris, when you were talking about, you know, I remember when you guys were first, the 2009-2010 season where there was all this speculation about, you know, the 2010

free agency and what was going to come of that. And there's always a talk about you guys, you, Bron, and Wade all planning to come. How much truth was there into that versus, because free agency is so unpredictable. What was how much truth is it in that, oh, we're just, there's this toast, there's this thing that we're about to do versus what actually happened. How much truth is in like, we're going to play together? have this vow to play together versus it just kind of naturally happened. Yeah, I mean, look, it's a mix of both, really.

We talked about it. A lot of people thought it started like in 08. They were like, oh, you guys were in 08 and this. I said, look, I tell people, look, if that meeting went on, I wasn't there. Okay. You know, but I mean, we had always been friends. And throughout the course, not only as friends, but as free agents as well, we had conversations, of course. You know, we picked up the phone.

We would see each other. Even Duane and I, we had our free agency meetings in the same. We were both in Chicago. We had the same agent, the late Henry Thomas. And, you know, we were doing our thing. The thing I didn't anticipate was how psychologically challenging it was going to be because there were so many different scenarios. And the pressure that everybody kept putting on me,

anytime I had a meeting with a team, they said, look, if you come right now, one of them are going to come. Yeah. So that was just like, you know, and me and my ego, it's like, yeah, I could get 25 and 12. It's just like, you know, you start doing the math in your head, whether it's true or not. And so I didn't anticipate that kind of being a part of it. And, you know, Miami had to do the work to get under the cap to be able to have the cap space, you know, because even after they signed us, I think we only had like five or six people on our team.

Yeah. Like you guys had to sign UD right after. You had to, UD wasn't on the team. Y Donna Sousousalm wasn't on the team. He had to sign, like technically wasn't, right? And you had to resign him afterwards. They had to like move money. It was, it was crazy.

But it took like, it took days to put the team together. So in your meeting, I mean, in Brown's meeting, apparently it's the legend of like Pat Riley putting the rings on the table. Was there, was there a grandiose? So how was your meeting with the Miami Heat? Was it, was it that thing? Was it that same vibe?

What was that for you? Oh, yeah. He put the rings on the table. He put the rings on the table. Tell me how that goes. What happens? Like, is he talking like, yo, Chris, I got something to show you.

What is the rings on the table conversation like? So, okay. So we're walking in, all right? I got my dad and my agent with me. Okay. You know? And so my dad, he's over there geeking out. Like, man, you know, man, that's Pat Riley.

man, I was like, yo, chill out, bro, you know? Like, it's business. Chris Bosch. You know what I'm saying? Come on. So we walk in and everybody's just, you know, it's one of them, those round circle tables in the meeting areas, right? And everybody's just kind of sitting down and I was kind of thrown off by it because even Spoh was sitting down.

And so Pat was kind of pacing back and forth. He takes his jacket off. he loosens his tie and he rolls up his sleeves and then he gets a bag and then just push the rings on the table and they go everywhere a little bit and he's like you know then then that pretty much kicks off his speech so then that's like his intro with no words and then he just like went into that's what it's about it's about being a champion it's about this we have an opportunity you duane lebron we can you know we can we can uh huh if you guys make this decision.

It was pretty good. It was pretty good. And then, and then, so then look at the end, he's like, yeah, take one of the rings. And you give it back to me when you win one for yourself. Oh, damn. You know, so just like, that was like the closing. I said, you know, it's a good one. You know, let me go think about it.

How involved, how involved is Pat? And I don't mean in any way to lead you into a question that would minimize what Eric Spolster does because I think he's fantastic and he's been groomed to be fantastic. But like how involved was Pat on the day to day? Like I was never in that building. I never got to play there. Culturally, though, I think he kind of, he culture began, you know, with him being there. How involved is he or was he at that point? How present was he when you guys were around a building and stuff?

You know, he's there. We all know where his office is. He comes to work every day. He's in his office every day. You know, and they watch practice every day. He doesn't say anything. He's not interjecting the coach's coach. You know, I know he's a firm believer in that.

But he's always had an open door policy. And he's always been that person where you can go in there and knock on the door. I mean, we had a bunch of conversations. It's just me knocking on the door. And if something needs to be said, organization, you know, organization-wise, like if things aren't right, then he will speak up. Those things will be addressed. That's more of, you know, his role. But he doesn't, he doesn't, he's not, what's the word, just overbearing or anything. He does kind of get a knock for that sometimes, but it's totally not like that. I mean, he's, he's hands-on in a sense where he is a hands-on president and he knows how to do his job.

both he and Spow to watch their relationship change. And look, right, he's got to fight those emotions just like everybody else. If we have a bad game and he felt as a coach, Spoh could have done this. Sure, they could have that conversation every night, right? But there is, they, I learned from them that there is a mode of keeping it separate and allowing the coach to coach and the president to be the president and everybody to do their role. so the machine can work. When you guys were, it seemed like during that time, you know, he puts the rings on the table for all you guys.

Pat does. And then there's a time to announce. And I remember your announcement, you and Dwayne Wade's announcement was a sports center hit. I mean, it was a sports center segment. It was a Wilbon. And I remember there just being, you know, still uncertainty if LeBron was going to come

and he wound up announcing the next day. Was there? How did that make, you guys feel because it was like you guys are going but then we still have to wait on Bron. Did you guys know Brown was coming? Can you guys, can you take me through that process of when you guys announced versus when LeBron announced in a decision? Yeah, so it was making the move and the host that he would make the move. The cap space was there. So you had no idea that he was going to like you guys. I mean, you can talk to it. I mean, we, you know what? It was so exhaustive. We

stopped talking each other. We couldn't. I mean, it was the last thing that we wanted to talk about because it was just so, I'm telling you, because I thought it was like, oh, yeah, it's going to be, oh, yeah, okay, these are situations, and then we'll make our decision in no time. And then it just, it kept going and going and going. And, I mean, we would just want to hang out and just not even talk about it, you know, it got to that point. But, yeah, I mean, there was a mode to not knowing, of course. I mean, he had, it was a whole, you know, thing, a program. And I would sit on the edge of my seat too, to be honest with you. And then, you know, made the decision, no pun intended.

And, you know, the rest is history after that. Would you guys have done the same spectacle if you could do it over again? You think, like, yo, we're going to win five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven rings in five years. You know what, man, like, It's when you're younger, you don't know all the way. You get wiser for a reason, right? Right. And then we were having so much fun.

We were caught up in the moment. That whole day, we didn't know what was going on. So pretty much what you were watching was just people totally in the moment, not even thinking about anything, just having fun. That was unfiltered, you know. And that's why, you know. because it was like, you know, it was funny. He kept going and the more he kept going, everybody got louder.

Yeah, yeah. So we were caught up in the thing, you know, it was so much fun. And, like, we were finding all this stuff out on the fly. Like, they'd come to the gym. It wasn't until night. We're like, yo, what the hell? Then they're showing us where to go. Like, man, what the hell?

And then the next thing you know, we're coming out the thing. Wow. It's crazy, bro. It was crazy. It was crazy. And, you know, everybody, you know, Miami loves to have a good time. You know, it looked like a living in a choose.

It looked tight. It looked hell of fun. Classic. And then the problem was not really thinking that other people are watching too. Never crossed my mind. I don't think it crossed any of our minds. We were just, yeah, we were just in the moment. Chris, like people make fun of coming to South.

beach and having to play right and talking about having to south beach flu and and all of that when you're a pony um now yeah right but you're you're you're there now you're living in miami um you guys are the heedles there's every eyeball is on you did you guys like did it make it more difficult to do your job was that was that something i mean coming from toronto at the time i mean i have to imagine that was a huge difference in in coverage and markets and all of that did could you feel that was their pressure associated with that? I mean, there's, you have to have discipline. You definitely have to have discipline. And as a team, I mean, you know, you have to figure out that area of commitment to the team, right? Like, you still want to have a good time while you're out, but,

you know, not that much of a good time, right? And then for me, you know, I was, I was engaged. My wedding was coming up. I was doing a lot of wedding planning and stuff like that. So And we were hanging out too, you know, going hanging out. And, you know, the tough part, and what's funny about Miami is that usually on our road trips, we would, you know, like Arbazel or the boat show, stuff like that. Like the cool stuff when the city's on fire, we'd be out of town. Right. You're missing that. So, yeah, you know, it would be things you miss.

But, you know, eventually the championship is more important. And if you're lucky to every now and then have a night where you can go out and hang out, you know, you do it responsibly. But yeah, it's right there. I will say that. It's right there. Listen, bro. I mean, I'm saying, especially as young ins, right? Like, you talked about being a little older and getting into that situation where championships are paramount and you've established.

But, I mean, that discipline also comes with maturity. So that's got to be a really tough, you know, thing to do, bro. come down there get dropped in. The world's on fire. And then you guys got to really try to compartmentalize and be about that championship. That's got to be really tough. For sure. It was tough. And, you know, it was tougher for the young guys. It was tough for the young guys, man. It was crazy. I mean, it was just the games going just when you're competing for championships. It's just the city. It's a magic in the city. You know, when it's the finals in the town, I mean, it's nothing like it.

And we got to experience that for four straight years and just the seeing sports fans hopeful. And, you know, seeing kids hopeful and just going to road games and seeing heat jerseys. It was, you know, it was a lot of fun. I'm glad I got to live that as a ball player. What was that first year? Because I remember when you guys assembled in that first year, I was a Laker fan. So I was one of those people that was just like, no, no. And just like part of that backlash, you know what I mean?

But real, like you guys had to deal with that a lot, right? You guys had to deal with that. And it felt like at least in the first year, you guys were using that as fuel to, you know, win games, especially during the middle part of that season. Do you think that was healthy in the, like in hindsight? Was that mindset healthy? Like, we're going to prove everybody wrong mindset that I didn't think you guys had in a years after that. But specifically in that first year when you guys are playing Dallas, it felt like you

you guys are trying to prove something to us as opposed to like winning it, winning it. If I have that wrong, let me know. But how was that with that mindset trying to prove everyone wrong in that first year? Was that healthy in hindsight? No, you know, it wasn't. And that's why I talk about mental preparation so much in my book. The way we were preparing for games, what we used as fuel and like you were saying, the things that we were paying attention to, I felt that it took away from the team.

We learned that eventually. But at the same time, it's a reason that you learn these lessons, right? We were in the finals and we're playing against the veteran team. I mean, Dirk Novinsky, he won the MVP and they had the best record in the league and they lost in the first round. And then after that, he finally gets to the finals that he beat him. So he's back. Jason Kidd got to the finals twice, lost. I mean, you finally get to the finals.

And then it's like, oh, yeah, all right, Kobe and Shaq. Two years in a row. Like they had the, you have to go through your process to kind of understand that that pain you have to take with you. And we hadn't developed that yet. And during the course of that season, we hadn't learned yet that things ought to be said. Things that are being said, they're going to be said. What we need to do is focus on teamwork. We need to focus on communicating with each other.

We need to, hey, when I'm at this elbow, you know, are you cutting or are you coming off? You know, those are the things that were more important at the end of the day. We realized that after losing and then, you know, came back and said, okay, no more excuses. This is the focus. And if there's another team out there that beats us, I'm willing to risk that bet. And because I know, you know, these guys I'm playing with are with me. So let's do it. Yeah.

The, I felt like, so I talked to you about having a sacrifice, right? And so the first year, as, you know, I watched, I came to some of those final games. It felt almost like there was an uncertainty. Just you guys were trying to figure out, like, exactly what this was going to look like down the stretch. like exactly, you know, what role that was, right? Chris, like, I mean, three great players. But we all know the ball at the end of the game, nine out of ten times has to find a hand or someone has to. Talk to me about how that kind of organically morphed. Like, it looked like your two.

There was a lot more, like, certainty in who you guys were within what you were trying to do there. Yeah, it was creating that system. So one of the strengths, one of the huge lessons that we learned, from that Dallas series was to run. Let's use our strengths. Let's run. But now we're going to keep the floor open. So that's when you saw us running and spreading.

We would not want anybody in the middle of the court, running down the middle of the court. So that way, Bron and D could attack. We could run those quick drag screens, away screens. You know, for our shooters, I can pick and pop, pick and roll, make those reeds. And that got us into more of a flow of the game. right and then in our packages when it's time to get that's when brawn said okay i'm getting in this

post i'm gonna start working and then eventually i found my way it was almost like you know brine was the five d was the four and i was the two because i stretched the floor and i start my game with jumpers as opposed to you know it being spread and getting those picking rolls and then we progress into that spread you know to shoot shooting threes and stuff like that. Yeah. I just feels like that second year, it all culminated the,

you know, the hate that you guys are getting, you guys trying to prove everybody wrong. That seemed to, the maybe nearing the end kind of culminated, I feel like, in that game six in Boston. And I know you know what I'm talking about.

We were talking to Coach Fisdell, I think about a week ago, and he was talking about how LeBron was very locked in after that game five in a way that, He wouldn't talk to anybody. He was engaged, but he wouldn't talk before the games and things like that. Did you think that was going to put on a performance like that?

Because Fizz said that Wayne Wade told him, oh, he's going to put on a show tonight right before that. Did you guys know that he was ready to go? Man, I didn't. To be honest with you, I had a growing injury. And so I'm playing with a tremendous amount of pain. So my pre-game thing was being just like, what can I do today? what am I going to do? You know, I can't move like I usually can.

Okay, what hurts and when I do this, this hurts when I, okay, all right, cool. It's just like I'm going through my mind because this jump's about to hurt. And we're in the garden, you know, it's intimidating. And so, you know, you can hear a pin drop in the room. I'm just kind of in my own zone and it was everybody's quiet. Nobody had to say anything. Go over the plan. Cool.

and I just remember Brian, us being in the back of the lock, you know, in the hallway, stretching, about to run out there, you know, getting your mind ready. And he just was like, they brought the trophy today, huh? We were all like, yeah, David Stern here too. Okay. Like, yeah, let's go, you know? And I didn't know he was going to do that, though. I didn't really realize what was going on until about me away through the second quarter. You know, because I'm under the goal every time.

just crashing the boards. And I'm like, yo, every shot is good. You know, and I stop crashing the boards. It's like, you under there, you see the ball. Oh, that's good. Oh, that's a good one. Wow. Dang.

He is on fire. That's a good one. Filling it tonight. And then for me, I just said, all right, cool. We don't have to worry about offense. Let me just get a stop. Let me concentrate. I start putting on my concentration on defense because he was rolling.

Well, that was one of the coolest things watching. Obviously, offensively, you guys were fantastic. but you guys were one of the better defensive teams. Like, I mean, man for man, you guys could be one of the better teams of all time. Real talk, when you guys decided to lock up and strap up when it meant something.

Focal point coming into a camp just, again, morphed into that? Or did you guys come back year or two and say, hey, man, we got to, it starts here. This is what we're going to do. I'm going to give credit to the heat way. Yes, defense first. That is the first thing we do at camp. And that's coming from the top down.

That's coming from Spoke, you know. And we always knew that. We wanted to be the best defensive team in the league. That was our goal every time. We wanted to be dynamic. We wanted to be fast. And, I mean, we wanted to play that style to speed other teams up and then kind of let D and Bron be the free safeties, you know, just be like Ed Reed picking, you know, getting into those passing lanes, getting those dunks, throwing off the backboard, all that crazy stuff. You know, we wanted to kind of get up and into a lot of teams, be physical with them, but fast at the same time.

We still played that smaller version of it. I mean, it's a lot smaller now, but we still wanted to spread and attack. I don't think you guys get the credit for, you know, the Warriors always get the credit for small ball and that. But you guys were that beforehand, in my opinion. But before I get to that, I want to get to the game six. One more question about that. Was there a sense if you guys didn't win that game that it was going to be over, that this experiment was going to be over? Did you guys think, or was that in the back of your minds?

What did you think was going to happen if you lost that game, Chris? That was a team conversation. Oh, yeah? You know what it is. We can't fail. You know what it is if we fail. And it wasn't anything out of panic. It's us being professionals.

It's us appreciating the moment. And, you know, we're here for a reason. And one, that'd be cool. but I've had encounters with people to be like, oh, one, that's cool. Oh, gosh, that's crazy. It's the hardest thing ever, but it is what it is, you know, that's sports.

And, you know, we knew that. We knew that we knew that we had to perform when it was time. We had to come through as a team individually, all those things. We had to get through it. And we did. So that's why I can finally look back at those things because a lot of that stuff is the preparation and opportunity, those lucky instances, you know, keeping your mind ready and really just holding on to that visualization, you know, and just keeping that dream alive even when it does and look that good.

When on those, I know when you have, we watched LeBron's career and stuff, and I don't want this to be this as LeBron conversation. I just wanted to ask in terms of like, you know, his last year in Cleveland, his first last year in Cleveland, When you kind of got a sense that he was going to leave, right? And then when you look back on his last year in Miami, it didn't seem like that he was going to leave throughout the season. But towards the end, it seemed like, you know, that Spurs, that Spurs series, at least for me, it seemed like there was like, okay, it doesn't seem like he's coming back. Did you guys have that instance that, oh, he's probably not going to come back? And then the inevitability of the happening at the end, like, what was your thinking? Like, run it back or like, this is it?

This is over. Oh, yeah, my idea was running back. Yeah. My idea was running back. That was the intent. But once free agency started, it's free agency. And once that process started and it was kind of just the sound of clocks, you know what I mean? Just total silence.

I was like, okay, all right, cool. Let me start working these phones. But he was the main chess piece. He was the card. everything else fell after him. So, you know, we were just really just waiting on him and trying to figure things out. But, yeah, that was my experience. I didn't see him leaving.

I wanted to run it back. I thought we could have, we could get back to the finals and compete for another championship. It was disappointing. It sucks getting to the finals and lose him, but let's get back to it. And, you know, one thing led to another, and he made his decision. But, you know, I've talked with other people about this, too. I couldn't imagine people back home or in the home area not liking me or, you know, feeling a certain type of way. You know, I would have to, I could see now in hindsight how difficult of a decision it was to make,

but to put himself in a position to get a championship for Cleveland and then actually, you know, do it. That was pretty cool. I want to ask you, I mean, this is going to segue just a little bit. I mean, you get back to the arc of the heat. But I want to ask you about another teammate, though. I want to ask you about James Jones, who's a Miami guy. I've known James since he was in high school.

He's doing great out with Phoenix. He's built a beautiful roster, like the vision. As soon as he took the job, you could start seeing the vision, and it was lacking before he got there. Did you see that in James? Like, was there, you know, he was a teammate. Like, could you tell that that was going to be in his future, either coaching or being in the front office?

I didn't see some sort of front of. front office, he was always a numbers guy. I didn't see him being in that position. You could kind of tell the things he was trying to figure out or talking about or working out. But that's one of the things I love about the team, team full of smart brothers, you know, and James was one of them. And, you know, not only one of the best three-pointers shooters I've ever seen, but just the way he sees life, you know, the way he raises his kids, his beautiful family. You could You could see the gears turning. And it was interesting.

As soon as he went to Phoenix, I was like, that's going to be interesting to watch. But, you know, just to be able to not only do the numbers and interpret the CBA, but put the talent together to actually find the guys to plug in, to make the right draft picks, you know, to be in a position. And I remember the GM got fired or quit and he had to, he went from assistant to, Right up to the quick, quick, you know, so I'm sure it wasn't easy days, but he was always like that. Always a smart guy. Always, always a winner.

And I'm not surprised at all that they're making it happen out there. Are you content with kind of how your career has played out? And are you in a good place with that? Because, you know, with the Miami Heat, we always talked about, you know, you came in as a Toronto Raptor dropping 25 and 10. You know what I mean? You are this guy and they have to go into the, this role, and I know psychologically, there's nothing wrong with you, is just the fact that

you're an NBA player and you're used to certain things and have to take on a different role. Are you content with how everything played out is you know, you weren't the number one guy like you were in Toronto and then you won two chips. But now, like, that is kind of your legacy, is that you want two chips as a part of this grand thing. Are you okay with how the career is ended for you? Are you content with everything that happened? Yeah, absolutely.

I mean basketball took me around the world man I got to play at Madison Square Garden and it was cracking a bunch of times playoffs yeah you know a playoff series there yeah you know what I mean I got to play with Kobe in the Staples Center Kobe and Shaq and I got to just be an NBA player

that's all I ever wanted to do and to actually you know that's one of the things I'm most proud of and I say this a lot in my book as well you could have the ego and it can always be about you. Of course, yeah, you winning a championship and scoring 25 points a game. Everybody will take that. But would you win a championship and score 18?

A bunch of people wouldn't take it. You'd be surprised. I've seen a bunch of them. But, you know, putting myself into the team, I became a better basketball player. I had more of an experience because I wasn't competing. I wasn't competing on the stage. I talked to Bill Walton. He said, you want to play on that grand stage.

And I said, okay, this is, you know, older guy saying this. So, yeah, I want to play on the grand stage because that's where I saw Michael Jordan. That's why I saw Kobe Bryant. That's why I saw Clest City do that thing. You know, so that was important for me. And to actually live that out and actually get to have these experiences.

And now, you know, going to the Hall of Fame, like, it's crazy. It's crazy. You know, and I'm just so appreciative. for the ride. You said that you were, you talked to Magic and Bill Russell during before your decision to dip or you talked to a lot of these guys

that guy. Bill Wall and Magic. Yeah. Talk to Magic. What were the conversations like? What was said during that conversation and be like, yeah, I need to do this. It's time. What I just say? You want to play, that's what Bill Walton said,

you want to play on that stage, big fella. Oh, yeah. I was like, yes, I do. voice. Yes, I do. So I said, okay, you know, that's what I started, you know, thinking about it and just, you know, thinking about those things to help make my decision. Yeah. So do we have a book. We, like I said, let me plug it one more time. Letters to a young athlete. Got it right here for it by Pat Riley. You know what I mean? He's right here. What's next? We, you know, we talked about retirement. What do you want to do? What is, what is, what if, where are you in this next step? in your life.

Yeah, I mean, I love the, you know, the literary game, the publishing game. It's cool. I love doing it. I love speaking to you trying to motivate people that, you know, get the best out of themselves to get over obstacles. It's just trying to figure that out. You know, man, I produce music and stuff. I do all kind of stuff, man.

I'm just really into my hobbies. I'm into my kids. I've been, I told my wife, my kids. challenge, I'm going to just kind of just ride the wave and see where things go because that's how this book came about. So now I'm kind of trying to reset and see where I'm at. But until then, we have a lot more work to do. You know, it's been great just to have these conversations like with you guys and, you know, push the message, man, and then see what happens. Chris, who's going to win this chip this year, bro? Like, who's winning that? I mean,

The net seem unstoppable. If their bench plays like that, I mean, it's their, Katie, Kyrie, James Harden, of course. They can do their thing. They can score 100 points between them. But the bench, they're just so dang. Joe Harris is just like everybody's on another level, you know?

And it's hard to see someone beating them. But Phoenix looks tough, man. Just as a basketball player, watching them play the game, I'm like, yo, I don't know how we stop that. They put you in, they have book. CP, you know, big day, they're balanced, they're big. You know, they could be an interesting team.

But, you know, that's why I love the playoffs. You got to, and it's intense too. They're out there playing hard. I love it. We, let's get to, real quick, let's get to Rewan of the Week. Somebody that we, Rewon of the Week is an entity and organization or a person that won the week in our eyes. I'm going to go first.

I'm going to go Nicola Yokic, MVP. I really love his game, man. Balled out this season is well deserved. Raza. Who was your real one of the week? My real one of the least is Tennessee Titans, bro. You got Julio coming over there? You got Julio to pair with the weapons that they already have offensively out there.

Tennessee Titans won the week for me. I don't know. What was it, a second round pick and a conditional or something like that? That's a no-brainer. Chris, who's your real one of the week? Man, you know, I love, you know, I know it's serious stuff, but I'm going to go and name, you, Osaka, you know, just for her speaking out and saying, yo, if something's not right,

something's not right and i need to get myself right before i can get back out there so i applaud her you know for for starting the conversation and looking out for her mental health that's uh that's a that's a great thing to see that's so man thanks so much man thanks for coming on man we'll love to have you on again thank you so much man thanks a lot talk to you guys soon to see you