The Ringer NBA Show - Chris Paul Is a Star and the Suns Are for Real. Plus: 10-Day-Contract Life With Paolo Uggetti, Kevin Love’s Outburst, and Russell Westbrook Disrespect. | Real Ones

Episode Date: April 29, 2021

Logan and Raja have given you Darius Miles and Boris Diaw. They’ve given you The Kid Mero. So listen to this lovely basketball catch-up between two good friends as you pat your full belly. First off, the last time the Phoenix Suns made the playoffs, Raja was still in the NBA, so Logan and Raja give Chris Paul and the entire Suns organization the respect they deserve (0:32). Then The Ringer’s own Paolo Uggetti joins to talk about his beautiful piece on the hardships of 10-day-contract life in a pandemic (22:28). Finally, Logan and Raja take a look at Kevin Love’s history of slightly bratty on-court behavior after he carelessly inbounded the ball to the Raptors on Monday (34:45), and Raja fights to the death for Russell Westbrook’s honor (50:00) Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Paolo Uggetti Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Join author and former vibe editor-in-chief Danielle Smith and Black Girl Songbook as she celebrates and uplifts the talent of black women in the music industry. Tune in for in-depth discussions with your favorite songwriters, producers, and artists, as well as anecdotes from Danielle. Plus, you'll hear the songs of black women who change the landscape of American music forever. Check out Black Girl's Songbook exclusively on Spotify. It's popping. Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Rajabelle. We've given you guys, Mero.

We've given you guys Boris Dio. The streets are well fed right now. But we got my guy, Palo Ugetti, later in the show. Lock in on that. I think the theme of this episode is like fuchsia colors and pink and orange and things like that. We're really bright today this morning, bro. We're really ready to go. How are you doing, dude?

I'm good. I got my coffee. Sun's got a dub last night. Some MVP chance in the desert. Yeah, I'm straight. I heard that in a while. I heard that in a minute. At least legitimate MVP chance.

chance in the desert. According to Logan Murdoch, the last time I heard it, it was, it was narrative-driven. So, I mean, this one is, I mean, is this narrative or is this just Chris Paul doing what he, what he does? Chris Paul is doing what he does. Let's let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's change a playoff birth for the first time since 2010. That's a decade. I was in high school then. You were still in the league. Chill, bro. I was just saying, you were just, I'm not chilling shit. You were still, you were still the league. That's a long time ago. B. I beat the Clippers. I'll be it without

Kauai Leonard, but they are in the postseason. The Phoenix Suns are in the postseason. Honestly, a legitimate title contender. Are the Phoenix Suns for real, Roger Bell? Yeah, they're for real. No, they're for real. Now, I mean, and look, this isn't just with my heartstrings talking right now. And I think we both came on when we were doing our

preseason kind of rankings and surprise. We both had Phoenix being a good team. It kind of They weren't like shot out of a rocket Or a cannon to start the season It's kind of gradually built up And a lot of people deserve their flowers out there I'm gonna give Robert Sarver some love

Like I don't do this often Right? James Jones was a great hire It was a great hire Monty Great hire for that team Both of them are doing phenomenal jobs James swinging the deal to get Chris Paul We said at the time that we thought it was going to really tie some things together out there

you could start to see the roadmap to where you want to go as a franchise. And they're following the map. Like they're on their way. And they're for real. We talk, I talk about these two stats like with the NBA, with the NBA offensive and defensive efficiency. You've got to be top 10 for me to really consider you in the thick of things.

Now, they're outliers like Brooklyn's offense is so great that we'll see if it can overcome their lack of defensive prowess. The Phoenix Suns, the Utah Jazz, the Milwaukee Bucks. And I don't think that. there's another team that checks both of those boxes. So when you ask me if they're for real, the answer is unequivocally, yes, they are for real.

Yeah, no, I believe so as well. And I think that when you, to your point about them, excuse me, your point about them, maybe like not even a fast start, just a solid start to the season. When you talk about that, that makes perfect sense. They're a new team in COVID, you know, a different type of training camp,

a different things to do. But they had the pieces, man. I love what they have on their team. It's Chris Paul helping out a lot of dudes, but that means Devin Booker's getting off. Aidan's playing well. Has to get his defense back up. He has to get his defense up in general. McKell Bridges love him.

I really love this team in general. And that's something that I was expecting, though. I was expecting more of a maybe a four or five seed, you know, maybe in the next year they maybe take the jump. Why are they taking the jump in the way that they're taking it right now as opposed to the gradual thing of that's something that we talked about in the start of the season. That's a really good question.

You know, again, I always default to like defensive chops and whether that can be the identity of your team because I know that Devin Booker is one of the best offensive talents in the league. I know what Chris Ball does in terms of orchestrating offense and allowing people who may not be phenomenal

one-on-one players to eat and be better offensively because of what he does setting the table. I played with great guards. I played with Steve Nash. Steve Nash allowed me to average 15 points again. I wouldn't a 15 point of game score, but Steve knew how to get me the ball where I liked it. And so now I'm probably playing out of my or above my level offensively. I know that's going to happen. What I don't know is going to happen is whether Monty can get to this relatively young team and get them to really buy into the

defensive end. Now, Chris Paul certainly helps that. They have some great defensive pieces on that team. But I think that, think that's why, you know, they are sitting there at the second. They've paired a really, really good offense and a good group of young offensive talent with some real defensive prowess. And I think what ties that all together is the one piece of Chris Paul. I'm not saying that he is the best player on that team. I'm not saying that everyone on that team doesn't deserve credit. McKill Bridge is also a great defensive piece. But I think his veteran leadership in that steady hand in the locker room, someone who is not afraid to hold people accountable,

someone who's been in those wars and knows how to handle teammates, I don't think that you could put a price tag on that. I don't know that you can. I think the Chris Paul element, obviously, is the biggest one there because I think there's something to be said when you, you know, you do have a young team, but you have an older guy who's been through the wars, who's been through the big games before to help you in the postseason. Because it doesn't matter, you know, how, good you are in the regular season. When you're a young team, it's totally different, totally different ballgame when you see the postseason for the first time. And to have a calming influence

like Chris Paul is huge for them. And I think that, I think the Knicks game recently was a big example that where he hits a huge shot down the stretch to help win that game. But just to have that calming presence down the stretch really, really helps, right, Roger? Don't you think that? Because when, when a guy is, can, oh, man, when they, when they, when they, when they, there's a game when Devin Booker is, man, I don't know, like down the stretch. Not to say he's going to get queasy down the stretch, but, you know, the postseason is a different thing.

When this team gets queasy, throw it to Chris Ball. We'll see what we can do with it. How big is that when you do get into the postseason? Let me answer it. It's absolutely huge. And let me take a step back and just address some of the moves that were made

as I continue to give James his flowers, right? We talked about Jay Crowder when they signed Jay Crowder. What's his nickname? What's his nickname? Joop's. Joop's, baby. Jay Hoops, J-Hoop's. So when J-Oops went out inside Jay Crowder, what would we say?

Man, that's a great Pete. That's a guy been in the trenches, can trust him defensively in those moments, hard-nosed. He is, his DNA is what you want in playoff type of teams. Tori Craig, right? Another guy, put it in the bucket. But man, he's flying around making plays defensively on the glass. You're talking about pieces that they sought for, like, the toughness

and the ability to get out there to defend multiple. positions and be tough, right? So now let me get to Chris Paul. Chris Paul's not going to carry you every game offensively, right? I don't even know that his legs have that in him anymore. But Chris Paul, given the opportunity if someone else isn't cooking and their number one, Devin Booker isn't playing, is fully capable of taking over for a quarter of basketball. And the luxury of having a dude who can sit back, facilitate, really orchestrate your offense and make sure that everyone is cooking is great. But then to have him have the ability,

if all of that's not working in the fourth quarter to say, all right, I got you put, you guys hop on my back. I'm a carry us home. That's a luxury that, that, again, there's not a price tag you can put on that, man. That is really special stuff to be able to flip that switch. Only the great ones can do that. Real talk.

Only the great ones can sit back, parlay, let everybody else eat, do their thing. And then when you need them to, boom, I got you guys. I'll carry you to. last seven minutes offensive. Give me the ball. I mean, I'd imagine that that takes a lot of bit, a bit of ego, but also humility, right? The ego to be able to be like, no, I got this. I'm one of the best at this in the league historically ever, right? But then to have the humility to be like, boom, you go ahead, you got this, don't trip, it's all good, I got you, and facilitate

the offense. And then when you guys need me, I'm here, you know? And I do think that that's a bit of a a good trait to have in general, but also as an older player, a great trait to have. And I think that you saw that last year with Chris in Oklahoma City, where, you know, a guy that, you know, I think you didn't average 20 points

by any means, you know, but Shay, this is how you, I'm going to develop you, little bro, like, uh, I'm going to give you the ball. This is how you cook. I remember watching Chris Paul early last season, going to a game in Oklahoma City and watching him play. And it was one of those things, right, where his presence on the floor,

Laura was good enough at that point because he is telling guys what to do. He is pulling guys to the side. And, hey, if you need a big shot, it's cool. I'll drop off like six straight points. And then I'll finish with 16 points in the game. I'm not the leading score, but I definitely made my mark. And you knew that you knew my value to the team. So I'm really excited to see what Chris Paul does that.

He don't got an average 25 a game. That was never his game anyway. But he doesn't have to do that. And I'm excited to see what he can do with that. What's up, Roger? Yeah, I didn't mean to interrupt, but here's what he needs to do. And he needs to stay healthy because that's kind of been what's derailed some of the seasons where he's had opportunities to maybe get over the hump a la to Houston a few years ago.

He's guys stay healthy and he'll have a shot. I do think, you know, when you talk about Chris Paul, you have to give credit to his teammates as well. Because I know this about Chris Paul. He is not an easy dude. in terms of I'm going to let you get away with this and I'm not going to say shit. And that can be tough in today's world,

not just the NBA. Like, you know, everything is different. Like, our coaches don't speak to us the same way that your coach spoke to you, right? Like, they're not allowed to speak the same way Jerry Sloan may have spoken to us. It's a different world. But Chris Paul is cut from that cloth.

He will MF you, like, until you get right and hold you accountable. And not everyone can deal with a, on court leader like that. So I want to just give some credit to the cats that are buying in to Chris Paul, like his teammates that are saying, hey, man, we recognize the greatness and what you've done wherever you've been.

We'll accept that leadership. Like, I'll take that. How much of that is, well, one a age, but also that, you know, he's played with a guy like Monty Williams before.

And Monty Williams isn't going to undermine Chris Paul's leadership, right? Where Chris Paul says something, it's probably, that's what it is, man. Right. That's your point guard. That's what it is.

And I'd imagine also Chris Paul, his influence is not going to affect Devin Booker because Devin Booker is just a real one, bro. Devin Booker is going to, from all accounts, is going to take that and be like, I bet, I got you. Don't trip. So when you have your two best players doing that, I think doesn't everyone else fall in line? When you have your two best players doing, having that attitude and mindset, and you have Monty Williams, who's been with both of those guys before, does that help just, yeah,

that everyone else fall in line? Yeah, I think it worked. I think any coach who has a player like Chris Paul and tries to undermine their ability to lead, you're shooting yourself in the foot ultimately because that's what he's there for. He's there to lead. He's there for his experience, not just his talent. So if you were to, you know, and there are some coaches that will, it's my way. It's not going to be Chris's way.

It's my way. The best coach is it's our way. We figure this out. So someday it might be my way, some days it might be Chris's way, but together we win. So yes, it does take money and that helps. And I think we're taking for granted, though, that everyone's built like Devin Booker. They're not. Every great offensive player you see in this league or great player isn't built like that.

They're not built to have somebody come in and say, hey, young fella, listen to me. I've been there. I can help you. And you've seen it play out time and time again where dudes get run out of town and afterwards they're talking about those dudes. You've seen it. So we're taking for granted that every really good young player is built of the same stuff that Devin Booker is and they're not. So I do, I agree with you 100% all that familiarity

works and helps it tie together. But the receptiveness of a Devin Booker, the ability for Monty to understand what they're trying to do there and let Chris spread his wings in that leadership role is critical. Now, you're talking about Chris Paul and, you know, that leadership aspect. And we know that hasn't always been at least received the right in the way that he would like it to be received. Do you think that this helps his? legacy, and you know, we're in legacy talk right now, Roger. Do you think that this helps him in the overall picture of Chris Paul that he's having this type of success on the back into his career where he's like, yo, I'm putting my arm

around these teams and in there being successful? Like, say in a world where, I don't know, the Phoenix Suns win a title this year, right? Where they just, you know, they go on and run and they win a title and no one expected that. Does that help out with Chris Paul and be like, and vindicate him in a lot of ways to be like, yo, I was just being a hard ass, but it worked in the end. Undoubtedly. I mean, if he were to win a chip, you know, that's the piece missing on his mantle right now. Like, that's the only thing you could say is missing from that resume.

And so that box is checked. You know, guys like Chris Paul to some degree, I want to be careful how I do this, because people always get up in arms like you're comparing yourself to Chris Paul. I am not in any way, shape, or form. But the mentality that Chris Paul has is one that I respect and one that I got down with. I am not here to make friends. I'm not here for that shit. I'm here to win. And I'm here to do what I can do to win games. And that's always been Chris Paul's approach. Now, I'll make friends along the way because I'll find kindred spirits. Guys will be built in,

you know, and for the ride the same way. I am built of the same stuff. And you ultimately make friends. But I'm not going to feel any kind of way if you're offended. If you got thin skin, if you can't be held accountable, that's not my responsibility. dog. My responsibility is to go out there and try to win games. And that's what Chris does. So look, they dropped them off in Oklahoma City. Was that two years ago now? The man was left for dead. The franchise was left for dead. I was one of the people saying damn, bro. He didn't even think he was going to play for, what do you think he was going to play the whole season? Didn't even think he was going to play the whole season. Like, all he did was keep that thing afloat and have him viable and help young fellas out along the way.

So any naysayers or anybody who don't shade at Chris Paul's name just because, you know, he approached. approached it, you know, the way he approached it and held people accountable and sometimes could get fiery and feisty, then you just missed the whole point. Like, he is an ultimate competitor. We praise Kobe for that. We praise M.J. for that. We praise M.J. We praise M.J. We're were, everybody watched the last dance, right? And there's a clip, a singular clip. And I think that that when they're running and And like Mike says, I wouldn't put anybody through that that I wouldn't go through because I put you guys through all the shit and demand everything that I demand for myself.

And he started getting teary-eyed. I saw you can separate the people who feel Mike and who don't feel Mike and you see what kind of people each person are. When they're like, no, Mike, you shouldn't do it like that. You shouldn't. Why are you being an asshole to these people? like that. And I was, this was one of the first, and I was, I remember just being like from the outside looking in on that camp, but like, Mike, you could treat your teammates better, but like, I was young. I didn't know it. I wasn't around the game. Then when I saw Mike say what he said

during that, I was like, I was damn near emotional. I was like, I feel you, dude. Like, yeah, you want it. You want it. And I think that Mike's cut from that cloth. Larry's cut from that cloth. Kobe's cut from that cloth. I think Booker's cut from that cloth. Chris Paul is obviously cut from that cloth. And you kind of see when the Russell Westbrook's cut from that cloth, but you kind to see the way these guys are criticized or praised. Who is praising them and who is criticizing them? You see what kind of people those people are when you see the kind of praise and criticism of Chris Paul, right? The people that are, by and large, those people that are like, I mean, I don't understand why he has to do this at pride and things like that.

Well, I can kind of see some things in life with you, player. I can kind of see how you kind of go about life. Logan, 110%. What happens to someone watching the NBA from the outside is because you're so invested as a fan, you think that everyone in that uniform is as invested in winning as you are. it's simply not true. It's not. And that's in life.

That's in life. It's not just sports. The NBA is a microcosm of society, bro. Like there are plenty of people. They're clocking into a job because they're really good at it. They've been super blessed with talent and size and all of that. They're not, they're singularly focused on winning basketball games. Right?

It could be about the bread. It could be about the celebrity. It could be about any number of things. but Chris Paul and the ones you just talked about there's a singular focus there. It ain't about the money with them. Like, I know it's weird to say that, but I could,

it's not about the, at a certain point, it's not about the bread, man, it's about really wanting to do it. Because we know this. When people get paid and stuff like that, they are,

some of them just like, okay, I got paid. I don't really care anymore. I'm chilling. But like those rare people like, like the people we just named literally just who, man.

you know, Steph has that in them, you know, like, you know, it might not be, like, looked at, but, like, all the greats have that in them to a certain degree where it's just about who. You know, I know we shit on, like, I know he gets shitted on social media. Kevin has that in him. Kyrie has that in them. All these people that are singularly great have that oof in them to where they're just going to, like, I'm going to fucking push myself to exhaustion. Obviously, LeBron has that.

But, like, I think Chris Paul is a, is, I used to be annoyed with, you know, a lot of, the antics and things like that. But the mindset, like, it is what it is. You can, it goes through the screen. You can tell. And you can learn a lot of life through these guys if you just, you know, like actually look at them in their mindset and just take away all the, all your jealousies and all of your things. You can really like, learn a lot of shit from them. And I'm not saying Chris Paul can't be a dick. I'm not saying that. No. Yeah, I'm not saying that. Yeah, I'm not saying that. But that's all part of it. It's all, yeah, I'm cool with that. That's part of the thing. bro yes you fucking like yes anything that makes like raja bell fucking clothesline a motherfucker

you know what i mean i know that you i knew that you were cut different from a different and like being around you i could just tell bro like like i would like to think because since colby and i we we were cool after that it took a moment right but i would like to think that a that a guy like colby and he's said it as much to me um and i've had some of his friends say it to me, like, he fucked with you because he knew what you were about, right? So, like, great ones like that, even in that moment, like, Logan, like, that's what they're looking for in teammates a lot at a time. You know what I'm saying? That's what they admire about their peers, not necessarily me, but their peers. Like, they, they want someone who's built like that to ride with them, you know?

And so, you know, just not everyone, you just take for granted that everyone in the NBA is built like that and everyone is not. I think that's even in life, too, man, because I remember, and this is like a real thing. No, we're just kind of taking the, the, the, the,

uh, taking the curtain back from real ones. Like, bro, I remember when, uh, we got paired together and it's just like, I don't,

man, I hope that he, you know, wants this as much as I do. Like, I hope that like, Ra, Raja wants this.

Like, I'm really invested into this, whatever this is going to be, right? Whatever this NBA show is going to be. I'm really invested in it. And I hope he is too. But I remember just thinking like early on in this process,

just like, Oh, Raj is locked in, you know. Raj is locked in. He's ready to go. He wants to, he wants this. And that was refreshing because like, bro, I swear if that was the other case. Like, bro, I would be pissed.

I would be fucking pissed. And I'd imagine that's what like a lot of these guys feel like. And that's the only comparison I can probably give because like I'm not no hoop or whatever, but I do know that mindset like, bro, like we really want a common goal. We're going to figure this out. We're going to, we're going to make this the best it can be. But that's, and if you put it in those terms, and it's weird, when you put it in those terms, I feel like normal civilians and people know what I'm talking about. But then when you go into, like, put it in basketball terms, you put the money in it, they all of a sudden forget.

Like, they're like, well, I don't get why you would be being. But like, no, bro, we want the best product out. And we want this. And we just want similar-minded people in the trenches with us because this is a hard job to do. It's a great. It's a great way to put it. It's a great way. It's a great way to boil it down. And you're right, man. You just want you want people that are about it.

Like you're about it. That's what you want. Yeah. Say a quick break. And we have something for you. A guest. Mm-hmm. And we are back. And we have a guest, Roger Bell.

We do have a guest. He wrote a great article. It was near and dear to my heart. Yeah. Yeah. It was, I know it touched you. It pulled at your heartstrings. We have Palo Yuggetti, NBA writer for the ringer in the motherfucking building, had a

really good piece on these struggles with 10-day contracts and the NBA in the COVID world. Now, Paola, big fan of your work. What was the biggest thing that you got, the biggest thing that opened your eyes while reporting this story? Because we know that 10-day deals are hard to come by in general for NBA players. It's a hard game. But what was the biggest thing you learned in the COVID world what NBA players go through during this process? for sure. Thanks, thanks for having me guys. I think the thing that stood out to me was the fact, well, two things. First, well, there were around the same amount of 10-day deals given out so far this season as there is on average any year. But when you look at how many of those deals have been converted to end of the season deal, a number was way lower. So I thought that was interesting, you know, and I think when I started talking to some of these guys, I think the thing that stood out was that normally, you know, you could bounce around, have 10-day in Sacramento, 10-day New York, et cetera, you know. But now with the protocols and the testing and the travel restrictions,

it just made everything feel a lot more tense and more and difficult, not to mention the fact that, you know, everybody's kind of scrambling to try to find a job. You know, for these guys, it's kind of like you're trying to find your spot. And so you have to maintain not just your basketball, like, well, being in health, but also your actual health because, you know, if you test positive, the team, you know, there's less willingness to sign it. I think those two things stood out.

So I was reading in the article about Tim Frazier, to your point, having to make the decision to not train at home with his family, but go out to Arizona and train kind of remotely just to minimize the chance to, you know, be infected so that if he got called, he could, you know, kind of be out of town. I couldn't imagine that. As someone that was at home training when I got called or I was back in like the CBA, USBL playing, that has to be really, really difficult. I do want to ask, though, like when I played, you'd have a lot of guys bounce around on 10 days.

Not everyone would stick right away. But teams would tend to load up right before the playoffs, right? And that's kind of how I got on. And then you wind up sticking through the playoffs. So did you get any indication one way or another, whether teams towards the end of the season are going to say, all right, now we're going to grab a couple pieces to ride into the playoffs just so our decks are stacked. Yeah, well, the interesting thing about this season in particular is there are a lot of guys coming in and out because there's, you know, like, especially at the beginning of the season, there was positive tests. and like the rosters were expanded and all that. But I think it was interesting because one of the guys I talked to Tyler Cook

had already been signed for the end of the year deal. And when I reached out to Tim to talk to Tim Frazier, he was still on a second 10, a second 10 day with the Grizzlies. And literally the day I talked to him, hours before, the grizzlies let him know that they were signing him through the rest of the season. And then after the article came out, a day later, Rondea Hall of Jefferson got signed through the end of the season. So it seems like there is more, as we get closer to the playoffs,

teams are making those decisions. I think the Kings also did it with Damien Jones. And then they waived Krasova to sign Chimesi Metsu to a two to your contract or something like that. So there's a lot of the shuffling going on. And that's where these guys, you are hoping that they stick, which some of them have. Do you think that this, you know, because that was one of the things that you referenced early on was the percentage of players that, that stick on for the remainder of the season versus, and historically,

I think historically it was 20 to 40% of the players stay on for the rest of the season and they get their deals converted to that. This year that was 9%. And I know that has a lot to do with what you said, the COVID restrictions and things like that. And do you think that this year is just an anomaly with that? Or do you think that next year it will return to form to get to that 20% to 40% range? Yeah, it's interesting because I think that somebody like Tim Frazier,

was talking about how this season actually opened up opportunities for some guys in terms of the young, young guys going on two-way deals and, you know, being able to bounce back from the G-League and the pro team, but also the G-League showcase was limited, too. So there was only a few amount of games. So I think next season, if there's a full G-League season, you might have more of those guys, you know, and more teams willing to sign those guys. There's more opportunities for them to play and to showcase their talent. So I think it'll start trending back up.

Maybe I think this is, I mean, this year is an anomaly for a lot of different reasons. So I feel like we almost can't take it as though this is the trend going forward. Because I feel like guys, I mean, teams are still going to need these guys toward the end of the season. Injuries, you're just trying to fill in minutes here and they're trying to take a chance on a guy. Like the Blazers, for example, with Rondea Hollis Jefferson, I think last night he was the first center off the bench. So they're playing him in a small ball lineup. And they're just kind of grasping for something different on defense. And so he's been able to come and fill that role too.

This is, I'll get to a question in a minute. But I was coming out of the CBA. I had made, you know, I don't know. I hadn't made a lot of bread. So the 40 racks that I got for my 10 day before it ever got converted was, was like more money than I was making in a CBA season. So they changed my world. Some of these guys already have had pro deals like Tim and Ronde. So they've got, you know, it's not like they're not going to eat if they get the 10 day.

But I am curious, what is a 10 day going for these days? Like I need to know. it's uh i think it's just a minimum i believe i think it's just a minimum the minimum contract i believe i don't maybe quote me on that maybe i should i got you but but yeah it's i think it's just the minimum and then it gets rich if it gets rich to um a multi-year non-guaranteed they get guaranteed for the rest of the season and the next season is uh non-guaranteed but they can go through the training camp which a lot of these guys mentioned because they're able to stay with what the team for a longer period of time and try to actually build something there got it yeah and

And how does this, have you seen power how this has affected maybe team building, right? Because you have less, you have less players going, getting converted to, to full year, multi-year deals. And do you think that that, does that help or hurt team building going forward in terms of like, hey, man, or is it just a matter of, hey, we just, the guy just didn't work out. It's fine. Yeah, I mean, I'm always like kind of surprised by how, and it makes sense. I mean, how quickly teams kind of just go through guys.

especially toward the bottom of the roster. It's like he's waived, you know, 10-10-day and then he doesn't stick around. So I feel like as, you know, the teams are probably looking at it from the business angle and also just from the, okay, we're going to try different things. And then, you know, if this guy doesn't work out, then like the next guy, you know, which is tough because I feel like that's part of the reason I was interested in the story. And really, I think some of the stories I've been interested in over the last like year and half since the pandemic was trying to like humanize the, the, what's happening to players lately,

you know, and being like, well, yeah, like obviously the NBA now more than ever is having to prioritize business, you know, but these players are caught in the middle, right? And it's whether it's, you know, the two-way guys, the 10-day guys, the international guys. And there's always like a hustle that's happening behind the scenes that I feel like people are not always so, so wherever, or the things that guys have to do to stick and, you know, get paid. I always found it fascinating because, like, there are a lot of guys sitting out this year that you wouldn't, you know, if you're not really watching rosters, you probably don't even realize that they're not in the league. You allude to that in the piece.

I always found it kind of fascinating, Logan, that, like, you could sometimes be too good in this space if you're sitting around to really make the 10-day. Because teams, if you look at them like puzzles, like most of the bigger pieces of that puzzle are already kind of in place. They're looking for a really specific piece. Like, right? Most of the time, they're looking for something really specific. And so when you talk about a guy coming in and they're going through players, you know, they may look at me and say, hey, I need a wing defender that can knock down shots.

And I get in there and I'm just not able to like handle the ball as much as they want. So they're looking for really specific things. And there are instances where guys are just kind of maybe too good. You know, a team would be like he's too good. Like I had an instance where, you know, Oklahoma City, Not Oklahoma. I'm sorry, it was New Orleans. And I had a friend in the New Orleans building. And I was sitting at home waiting for a call. And they called and they kicked the tires. And I thought I was going to go up and they never called again. And he called me and he said, yeah, they were just, they were afraid that you were just, you know, too good to really want to come in here and do what they were going to ask you to do.

And so they didn't go through with it. And so that's, you know, that's another piece of it. They're looking for something very, very specific when they're giving out possibly that last contract. Were you like, yo, bro, I'm not too good. I'm over here. I'm literally here to take it a 10 day. Like, I'm here to take a day. What do you mean? I'm too good to take a day? The nature of my situation suggests that I am not too good. I am sitting here waiting for someone to call.

But they had their mind wrapped up. And, I mean, it was their call. And so it was what it was. But in Philly, they had lost in the trade for DeKembe Mutumbo. They sent Pepe Sanchez to Atlanta. And they couldn't get him back in time to make their playoff roster. And they needed a big guard, someone who could defend because they had Allen defending ones.

and they had like the Eric Snow's of the world guarding twos. So I theoretically could come in. They thought maybe I could play the one a little bit, but definitely guard twos and that's what they needed. And so that's how I get picked, not because I'm better than anybody, but because I fit that mold. And when I got there, I defended.

Yeah, and I feel like for some guys, like for example, for Ronde, like he said in the piece, he didn't really expect to be here at this point, you know? And so now he's kind of having to rejigger his mindset to being like, okay, I'm going to come in and fill this exact role. one before. It was like, oh, no, I'm a role player, which is a little bit of a different thing. So that was interesting, too. One of the things that I saw, which was the stories that I saw was was Tyler Cook, who was a guy that is a good young prospect, but had kind of dealt with the

politics of the NBA. I think one of the things that you wrote about was, you know, he had an opportunity in Brooklyn, but as soon as that, as soon as Blake Griffin became available, it was like, nah, kick rocks, it doesn't matter how good you are. And this is just what it is. Did you sense, a guy like that, was there frustration when you listen, when you hear a guy like that, it's like, oh man, I'm trying to get into the league. It's, it's not as, it's not as easy as I'm thinking. It's not as nothing to do with my

game necessarily. It seemed, it seemed like he went into the situation and very quickly found out that like, you know, Blake your friend's coming. And it's, when I, I try to ask him about that, like, what was, how, how was it like, was that frustrated? And he, he kind of was like, I mean,

he's a multi-time all-star. Like, you kind of just shrug your shoulders and accept it, right, which was like kind of a good mindset on his end. But I think, well, maybe he found frustrating what the beginning was the limited amount of opportunities he got to show, not just in Brooklyn, but in the G-League showcase before. Like, there's only a few games. So that was, he was really banking on those games in the G-League showcase to be able to get the next thing. So when he got it and that did it work out, it was like, okay, where is it going to, where is it going to come from next? But when the Pistons called, there was a different mindset because

he knew that, okay, they, they're more of a, you know, brief, building team. There's an opportunity there. And it seemed to him like right away from the moment he got there that if you just put in the work that there was going to be an opportunity for them to invest in him, which, you know, is not something that maybe he got in Brooklyn for obvious reasons because of the type of team that they are. So he took it pretty well. For sure, for sure. Well, thank you, Powell. Thanks for coming on, man. You can read his work at the ringer, one of our best NBA writers, man. Thank you so much for coming on, man. Come again. And we love your jacket. Thank you. You have a fire jacket.

I love all your jackets. I don't know if you guys see this. Let me just paint the picture real quick. He has on a brown velvet-like jacket. He has the, it's like a, it's like a mustard yellow. Mmm, a mustard yellow. Okay, okay. It's like members-only vibes.

It's kind of fire, bro. Like, store vibes, you know. There you go, man. Saucy. Yeah, you're saucy out here, man. Thank you so much, Palo. Thanks for having me guys. And we are back.

Shout to Palo coming on. I want to talk about something else. We talked about the 10. day grind. Let's talk about someone who's been in a league for a very long time and it's the whole opposite of the 10 day grind. It is Tevin Love and what he did

in Tampa, Toronto, Toronto, Tampa, Toronto, Tampa, Tampa, Tampa, Tampa? Let's go with Tampa. Tampa. Tampa. Tampa, Tampa. Tampa. Tampa. Tampa. The Traptors. You play the game. The traptors. The traptor. Hey. Hey, what, your robot. The Traptors. He was playing against the Traptors.

And the game, it's in the third quarter, the game was within reach, right? There's a basket being scored as baskets do get scored in the NBA. You miss a defensive assignment. Something happens. You're still in the game. I think they were down like three points the Cavs were or something along those lines. The Traptors make a jump shot. Kevin Love throws the ball at the station.

The ball goes to a Raptors player. He hits a three. And after that, what was a sizable, you know, it was a manageable deficit turns into a sizable deficit. And Kevin Love throws the ball at the stance and walks off. And it's just like, just, yeah, just walks off and it's like, yeah, whatever. And like, it looks like he fucking quits on his team. That's the optics of Kevin Love apologized and said it didn't think it,

when he was in the moment, didn't think it was as bad as it looked on television. He fully owned it. yada yada yada that'll be good that'll be all good and well this wasn't the first time that he's done something like this I remember a time last year where he was bad about I think it was Colin Sexton a pass that he did

and he just fucking threw the ball very hard at Sedy Osman and just was like like what the fuck and this is like one of those other things where he just like why would you do that as a leader right at least optics why would you do that as a leader Kevin Love is a veteran has an accomplished career, you know, won a championship, you know, has made some All-Star teams, has, you know, made a lot of money in this league. And now he's on a team where he has to be OG Kevin Love. He has to be to OG in the locker room.

It's a set of example. These are two big things where he has not set the example. Raja, do you think this hurts his standing in the locker room as a quote-unquote, leader when you do stuff like that? Yeah, no question. There's no question that there are ramifications within the locker room when things happen. Here's what I don't know. I don't know, clearly, I don't know what he is so frustrated about, right? Because clearly he's frustrated and he's at its wit's end. I can relate to that. I've been frustrated. There was a play. We were in Madison Square Garden. I was with the jazz. Jerry had retired. We did not share the ball.

a unit where everyone was looking to kind of carve out a name for themselves in the league. I was not there for that. I was trying to win. Something happened. I had been wide open four times. They didn't pass me the ball. Someone went one on four, shot a shot. And I did not get back on defense.

I did not. I stood right where I was and I did not get back. And so the next day, Tyrone Corbyn calls me into his office or into his hotel suite and asked me what's happening. And I was like, you know what? I fucked up. But here's why I fucked up. I'm just frustrated where we're at.

I don't feel like we're playing together. I don't feel like we're sharing the ball. So this was my story. That was my frustration. I had to own the fact that I did not get back on D. Same way Kevin Love. I don't know what his frustration is. If it's with his teammates,

and he shows this in practice a lot, and now he's having outbursts on the court, I'm sure there could be some people in the organization and within the locker room looking at him sideways like that. If it's a general frustration of being on a team that is in a transition phase and their window and timeline for success doesn't necessarily sync up with his. I think some people would understand like, you know, this is a platform.

Now, I'm not saying he's right for that. Kevin Love makes $30 million a year, Logan. It makes $30 million a year. And we can't all be in a situation we want to be in. That's the way it goes. I know firsthand. But I also know that you can get salty in that situation. it can bring out the worst in you.

Right? So while I will talk shit about Kevin Love, like because he got to be better than that. Like he makes $30 million a year and you kind of owe it to some of those young dudes to be what Kobe Altman and company need you to be, which is an elder statesman holding it down, teaching them the ropes.

Those situations can bring out the worst in you when you're in one that you don't want to be in where things aren't going well. And I'm not saying that it's not run well there in Cleveland because I don't know. But his attitude would lead me to believe that things are going on behind closed doors that that that Kevin Love knows aren't the way to do things and that's the way I could best put it.

I have two points on this. There was a time at the beginning of your current deal that you're making 30 mil on. And shout out to you for getting to the bag, bro. Like, I'm not even hating on you getting to the bag. The thing that I'm saying, though, is when you signed said deal, we knew LeBron was out of there. We knew that this was going to be a rebuilding phase. you knew that this was going to happen, right? You signed, you literally signed up for this, right?

And there have been plenty of times where, at least on the outward perspective, there have been rumors that you might get dealt. Now, I don't know if there was deals in place. I don't know about that. But there were times where there were, that you, you know, there were rumors that you were going to get dealt. And when those rumors come ahead, you could be like, you know, there's two things that you can do with that.

You can be like, trade me. okay cool trade me because players of that magnitude have the ability to say yeah I would like to be traded he's never done that he's saying I am well locked into Cleveland this is all the outward perspective right this is this is what we hear this is this is on record you have been saying I want to work this out in Cleveland I want to do all these things in Cleveland I want to do this I want to get this done in Cleveland I want to be a part of this rebuild I don't want to leave I don't want to go to a contender I want to be right here in Cleveland well this is what's going to happen if you do that yeah right that's fair and my second point is yo, if you keep doing this, you're not going to help your standing around the league when you do want to leave or if and when you do just get fed up with this because it's like, bro, we want you to be a guy in the locker room

that is going to help our ball club, right? And then get your stuff off and then get your numbers and you figure it out. But when you're throwing balls at Stanchions, when you're undermining the future of the team and you're not really helping them, that's when you get a divided locker room. That's when you get one of the young guys that forget who it is,

liking a tweet saying, Kevin Love has stolen X amount of dollars from this organization. That's when you get those types of things, though. That's when you get those things when you're not leading that example. It's okay to be the guy that gets the bag in the locker room. It's okay. But I feel like there's a mindset that you have to have when you get into that role. If you're going to be a mentor,

be a mentor. And I don't, I think these two, um, instances haven't shown that, yo, I'm in it with you guys. It's not. It's just like, fuck, I'm pissed now and I'm going to make a ass out of myself and now I have to, now it's going to be a thing when we're trying to build something. We're not trying to build controversy. We're trying to build up a culture of winning. So, um, I was disappointed to see that from Kevin. I think that's all fair. Um, let me, let me go back to you saying like, you, asked for the trade. I mean, the media doesn't, I mean, I could have asked for a trade.

My situation, I've told my story time and time again, Kevin O'Connor asked, do I want to trade? I didn't want to be that dude. I didn't want to quit on it. Like, there's something to be said for that. I should have said, yes, trade me now in retrospect. Give me out. Because it wouldn't have festered and it wouldn't become what it became.

And I think Kevin loves kind of in that situation right now. But you can't win if you're a player asking. How many players have asked have been traded and, and, and, you know, and, you can't win. and fans come out and say, yes, dude, good call. Good call. You need to get out of here, man. We support that. Nobody.

You get crucified asking for a trade. Secondly, what happened in the, we go through the psychology, I guess, of the Kevin Love career. Kevin Love was, whether you think the numbers supported or not, or they were valid or inflated being in Minnesota, those teams not winning. Like, I have my stance on it. I think those numbers were slightly inflated. But he was a star. No, he was.

It's okay. It's just my opinion. opinion. He was a star, though, in the NBA. Like, it was Kevin Liff. It was a perennial all star. He was Kevin Love, man. And so this all happened to Kevin Love. Over the span of a career, you have a natural arc of like if you're a star coming into the league, boom, then you get into your stardom, it plateaus for a while. Maybe you peak a little bit, and then, you know, there's a graceful kind of fault. This all happened to Kevin Love so fast, right? Boom. Yanked out of Minnesota, be the third option in Cleveland. Not the second, the third.

Here, take this. So Kyrie's going to eat. LeBron's going to eat. You shut up and do it. supposed to do, but you're going to win a championship, right? Boom. So you got that. And then real quickly, the rug was yanked out from under him. Now, we can argue whether he took the bag or, and that was prudent or he should have went somewhere else for less money where he could continue to play. But he took the bag. And then you go into rebuild mode and we can't really use you, Kevin Love. And so now you're on, now you've been cast like there was no plateau of your career, really. Like there was no graceful like decline. This was all really, really fast. And the money is supposed to take away all of the feelings that go with that.

And I don't think that's fair because you're going to feel some kind of way. Yeah, I make a lot of money. And I am also saying at $30 million, you have a responsibility to do your job. But it doesn't just take away all of the feelings and all of the emotion that go into, damn, what happened to my fucking career? Like, look at me. Like, I mean, that's fair too, right? Like, fuck, I was sitting here five years ago, six years ago. It was all good.

How the fuck did I get here? And I think Kevin Love is going through those three or four seasons. seasons ago. I was just in the NBA finals. I'm getting DnPs now. I'm sitting down. Like, I think, you know, Kevin Love is dealing with some of that too. And I think it's fair to look at it from that lens as well. That's fair. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. That's fair. That's fair. But then what's the solution then, Roger? Because I think that's the biggest thing, right? Like, I do, I do sympathize with K. Klov going through that. I do sympathize with that. But what's the solution, right? Is it? Kobe Altman. Is it a talk? Kobe Altman and the Cleveland Cavs need to do what's right by Kevin Love. Kevin Love held them down. Like it was mutually beneficial. He took the bag, but it kept them to some degree having a star in building and so on and so

forth, right? Instead of them, the mass exodus that would have been stars out of Cleveland, you held on to one, kept you afloat to some degree. Do what's right, both of you guys. I don't know what he's got left on his deal. So, but there's got to be some buyout situation in the near future, maybe next season, where Kevin Love can leave, go to somewhere where whatever's left in his, tank can be put on display and he can help contribute to a winning organization. I don't

imagine anyone's trading for that contract right now. Maybe that's an expiring deal at some point. But I think the calves and Kevin have to figure it out. And it starts with the calves. Kobe, you need to let the man go. Like that's not helping, it can't be helping what you have going on in your building. No, no, it can't. And I think it would be, you know, at a point in time. And it's love, too. Like at a point in time, he's got to par ways, man. It's just not. It's just, it's just his wood. I think he has a nearly $60 million left on his deal. Kevin Love getting to the bag. Kevin Love.

Kevin Love gets to the baggage claim. Yeah. Kevin is here. Kevin's straight, dog. Look, work that out. You guys sit down, break a little bread, men fences. Kobe, like, real talk, if I'm Kevin Love. And Kobe's my man. Hey, Kobe, how the fuck can I get out of here? You tell me, what's this need to look like?

Let's start the negotiation because I need to get the fuck out of here. Yeah, yeah. And you know, Kevin's made enough money to where that'll be good. It's fine. But yeah, I do hope that works out because, man, there's some potential in Cleveland. There is. There's some potential in Cleveland. We'll see what happens.

But you can't have those two instances like that to build a team. It's just you can't do it. And I get everything that Kevin's going through. At the end of the day, you can't have that, especially on television. So let's see in this day and age. It's terrible look. It's terrible look. Terrible look.

Before we get out of here, because this is something that we talked about in the pre-pot of meeting that you guys aren't privy to. So we just give you a little peek to the prepod meeting. We were talking about Kevin Love's performance on the back side of his career. And, you know, not necessarily, at least from outward taking on that challenge of being that guy at his time. And then you juxtapose that with a Russell Westbrook who went to a Washington team who hasn't been good and very vilified throughout his career, fair and unfair. Who knows? but we're going to use this opportunity for Raja to give Russell Westbrook his flowers.

Oh, I know. You fair or unfair? I know the answer. It is unfair. Now, you tell me you didn't win a championship, I got you. I hear you 100%. But that man is built from everything that you want a basketball player to be built from. You can argue that he doesn't shoot the jumper in an analytically driven world in a world

where we put stock into space and being able to shoot the three. I got you. I'm not saying he's a great shooter. I'm still telling you, he's built from every single damn piece of DNA that you want a competitive athlete to be built from. He plays at 110% every single minute of every single game. I coach basketball. I know how rare that is.

I know how hard it is to get people to do that. This man does it on a professional level. You throw him in different situations. This one in Washington, it sucked. We were talking about Bradley Beal needed to get traded out of there like they got it can't figure it out. Yeah. It was ugly at the beginning. People were crucifying Russ.

What's the man done, Logan? What's he done? He just put in triple double after triple fucking double. And I'm going to be real. I'm going to do this. I'm going to be real because I'm not going to I'm not fake. I was really hesitant about this pairing. You could go look it up.

I was hesitant about this pairing because Russell Westberg was coming off an injury. He was hurt last time. He was coming off of COVID. we saw, we can both agree, me and you, we saw the worst of Russell Westbrook in that bubble. For whatever reason, he was hurt, didn't play well, right? So that's the last thing I can think of. And I wasn't, and I wasn't, I wasn't, I wasn't in, I wasn't all in on Russ.

And I love Russ. This is your, this is, this is, hey, look, I'm glad you said that because this is even further. I'm eating my words. It's great. It's even further proving my point. In a day in an age where mofos won't play if they got a hang nail, this man is in the bubble post-covid. with a hamstring injury, looking like shit,

and listen to all y'all talk about him, but he doesn't care. He's still out there pouring it on the line for his team, bro. Okay, I would say I'm going to push you back on that one. I'm not going to say he doesn't care because I'm not going to say he doesn't care because he acknowledged it. He acknowledged the shit that we as a collective media has said. And he is, I would say, instead, he has internalized it in a positive, constructive way. It's typical media, bro.

you're taking responsibility for Russ internalize. You guys have created Russ. No, I'm not. You guys have created Russ. No, no, no, no. We haven't, no, no, no. We have not created Russ.

Russ did his fucking thing. He was always, this has always been a narrative on Russ. But like he has done to put into work and he has done that shit. He just internalized it. Russ is a motherfuckerucker, bro. Russ comes to play every minute, every game.

And to the triple double. Like people are going to tell me hollow stats. Like, I've heard all the arguments. I was not a star in the NBA, right? I was a double digit score as a career. I scored double digits as a career. I wasn't bad. You know, you know what I'll tell you, though?

I'm better than 99% of the motherfuckers walking the planet playing basketball. High five. Yeah, I'll high five. Yeah, I don't do that regularly. But I'll tell you that. Now, I'll also tell you this. You know how many triple doubles I have in a career playing basketball, not just at the NBA level? How many?

None. In high school. It's fucking hard. And high school average 28 points a game, multiple 40.20 rebound games. I still have to fill an assist or a steel category with double digits. It is a very hard fucking thing to do. And people marginalize that shit and try to normalize it. And it's really, really, really difficult at any level.

You know what I want to say? You know what I'd like to say about that? This is one thing, and this is probably me going to be bashing the media, but guess what? I don't really care. I don't like how we try to minimize greatness in this game. I don't like it. Like we can talk about, we can, you know, we can talk, we can criticize and that's very much in our right to do that, right? But I think the biggest thing that we've seen, I think it's a lesson.

Like during Russ's MVP run, we try to discredit it so much, so much is triple doubles. And he fucking did it again the next year. Right. No one had done that since Oscar Robertson, bro. Bro. Like decades, lifetimes ago. But he went and did that for her whole season. We didn't give him his flowers. Then there was always some kind of, well, he didn't do this.

Well, he didn't do this. Instead of just looking at the totality of the season and being like, brother, this was fucking impressive. This was so impressive. And it's not like his teammates are like, fuck Russ. No, man. He's whack. He's whack. No, bro.

If you ask any one of Russ's teammates, they swear by him. So I just don't like, I think Russ is an interesting case study in how we cover the league because we always discredit greatness in this time to try to build somebody else up or try to do that. In a lot of ways, we did that to build Kevin up when he didn't need it because he was great in his own right. Both could be great. It didn't work out between the two. But Russ is really good. And I think we made him a villain in a lot of ways.

And I think that messed up our ability to see his greatness because we wanted a villain. We wanted to sell a lot of this fucking idea of a game. When that really just wasn't it, bro. Like, you just pit two men against each other, bro. And I thought that was just whack in general. And I just think that how we've covered, historically covered Russ has been kind of way. It has been whack. And I think we'll go back.

It has been whack. And I take it a step further, Logan, because on the court, I'm not open for argument on the court. I don't want to hear shit, all right? Other than the threes and you don't have a championship. Fine. I'll give you that. I don't want to hear shit because I know what it takes to go out there and do that every night. but the man is like a model citizen off the court, right?

Like philanthropic efforts, never in trouble, conducts himself the way you would want to a pro to conduct themselves. And so you throw all of that into the pot and I am with you 100%. Like what are we talking about? Why must you catch that kind of flag? I think because, and this is, you're going to probably be triggered by this, Roger, but it goes back to our media player conversation. And I think why there's such a divide, bro, because

Russ historically doesn't talk to the media. He doesn't. He has probably been given some of the most, the best answers he's ever given now in Washington. But for the most part, it was like, I don't want to talk. I don't want to do that. And then also like, you know,

you got the thing with Barry Tremel, that, you know, the columnist where he was just, where it was a back and forth there. But there was always a combative relationship between Russ and the media. And we see this time and time again when a player doesn't want to talk to the media, how they get vilified.

We even saw that this year with Kyrie. And I'm not saying that's a different example. But in the case of Russell, I think a big thing was he didn't want to talk to us and he didn't want to give us the answers that we thought we deserved. And I think that we vilified it. Here's what I'm going to say to that.

And knowing full well, I'm a member of the media now, okay? Here's what I'm going to say. It's the same thing I say about referees. You're not the fucking show. You're not the show. Media, I am not the show anymore. I was at one point part of the show. I'm not the show.

So as it pertains to Russell, like Westbrook, just because that man don't feel like talking or giving you what you want doesn't mean you have to slander him with every article you get. It is not, now, you're going to tell me, yeah, it's part of his job. He's got to give a quote. Nobody says he's got to give a good one. Nobody says he got to get up there embarrassed soul. They just say he's got to fulfill a requirement of media availability.

And so if a person is, you know, to some degree, an introvert or, you know, they're prickly and they don't want to address the media all the time, but they have to do it and they're there and they don't necessarily give you good quotes. Don't take that shit out with your pen or your typewriter or your fucking keyboard. You ain't the show. I have an example about this happening. And I remember one time we were in, I was with the Warriors and we were in Miami, right? We were, I think Jordan Poole, who we've talked about on the show very briefly,

had one of his first good games of his career. Now, Jordan at the time, and I don't know how he is now, because I'm really going to be now. But I don't know Jordan at the time didn't really talk to media like that. And when he did, it was very short answers. He wasn't trying to... And I remember talking to him about it.

He was like, I'm really just trying to focus on the game. I'm not trying to focus on my quotes and things like that. I'm trying to focus on my game because as of right now, I'm not playing well. And I want to get, like, into a good place. And so I remember during the media session, he was giving really, like, very quick. quick answers, right? So I'd noticed that about him and I was like, okay, he's not answering

no questions. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go around and ask his teammates about his journey to this point and paint a bigger picture. I'm not going to rely on Jordan Poole to give me quotes because clearly he don't want to talk. What I'm, the overall point I'm trying to say is if somebody's not giving you a quote, one person is not giving you a quote, there are a whole bunch of other players in that locker room that are more than willing to talk about this player, especially if they like him. You go just do your job.

It's all I'm saying. There's all other things that you can do to still tell a story about a person without taking it out on a person that doesn't want to give you a quote, bro. Like I said, I defer to you in that space. I think that's great advice to journalists.

I feel like that's fair, right? If Rodson don't want to talk to me, I'm going to see if I can get a quote from Nash on how Steve's been, how Rogers has been doing. I'm doing that, right? But I feel like there's a lot of feelings involved or whatever when someone doesn't want to talk to you, bro. And as my guy, Coach Alonzo Carter from San Jose State says, get your feelings out to shit.

Get your feelings out to shit. And make sure that you just do your job, bro. If fucking Russ doesn't want to talk, don't take it out on Russ. Go get a quote from somebody else, man, and go tell a complete. story about him. And that's really what it is. It might be a little harder, but shit, that's while we're in this business. I would also, let me follow up, because I think that's great. I really think that's phenomenal. We talk about this a lot. And this is just my personal experience. It came into the league. Nobody knew me. Didn't give a shit about me. Never got an interview.

Fine. Soon as I did something in the finals and in the Eastern Conference finals, 35 reporters at my thing every time. Go to the finals. I'm part of the discussion. Like, they want to talk to me, right? Next year, I'm not even on the radar in Philly. I sit the whole year. Not a reporter in my locker ever. Don't give two shits about me. So you start to realize as a player that you don't give a shit, you don't care about me. You just care about the story. And so what I would say is what I always say about reporters. If you want to then come to me when I'm when I'm a story again, check in on me when I'm not doing great, bro. Check in on me, bro. Ask me how I'm feeling, man. When I'm in my locker looking dejected, I got a tear in my eye because I don't know if this shit is for me anymore.

No, seriously, because there are nights like that. And you can see that as a judge. journalist. Come over and tap me on the shoulder and be like, hey, Raj, man, tough of your dog, you're right? And then when I pop back on the scene and you want something, I'd be way more willing to bear my soul to you. I think one of the things that has set journalists apart, the good ones, like, that I've seen, and the ones that I've kind of try to model what I do around that I've learned from, I'm talking about, you know, Marcus Thompson, the Mark Spears, the fucking Chris Haynes, the Rachel Nichols, the Candace Buckner's, right? The all these people, what they do is they don't always, they talk to the stars, obviously,

because you need the stars. But whenever they're, you know, the pre-game scrums or whatever and free things, they go around the locker room, they just do a lap and talk to everybody to see how they're doing. And also, that's how you get a better picture of the team that you're covering when you're doing that, when you're talking to people. And that's just another thing. But I feel like the best journalists and the best beat writers go and they see the totality. of it, right? Why isn't Russ talking? Is it because he got burned on this time or this time? And,

and, like, you, you're able to tell a bigger story when you, when you look outside of yourself and everything that has you fucked up. And I just feel like that, I feel, I wish Rush got, that fairness. I wish he got that. Like, get your feelings out to shit. We all in this together, bro, and just figure it out. But, like, to just dismiss somebody and dismiss a triple double MVP. he's seasoned because your feelings hurt is trash. I'm with you 100%. Here's what I'm going to say. I'm going to leave it like this.

Anybody got some shit to say about Russ's game? Holl at me. Because I'm telling you, I don't want to hear none of that shit. I don't want to hear nothing about what this man comes to bring to a organization night in and night out. That's not debatable. It's real shit. Speaking of real shit before we get out of here, let's get to a little second.

We like to call Raja, real one of the motherfucking week, real one of the week, where we talk about a entity, an organization, or a person that just gets our flowers this week. I'm going to start off first because it is, it's a real, you know, I'm usually with Osama Rowans. This is not Osama Rowan. Shout out to my guy, Van Lathen, who got an Oscar for a short called Two Distance Strangers. That is, that is tight. Co-worker got an Oscar.

Shout out to you, Van Lathen. Also got an Oscar on that one, was Kevin Durant also got an Oscar for. that one. So shout out to them. But Tal Van Lathan, man. That's really cool, man. You know what it is, Van. I don't know how much you listen to the real ones, bro. But shout out to you, my guy. Real one of the week. Bet that. All right. I'm going to take it back to something I said

earlier in the show. I'm going to give a real one of the week to my man, Jay Hoops, J. Hoops, to Monty Williams, Robert Sarver. I'm a lump you in there in real ones. And the whole Phoenix Sun's organization for being relevant again, for mapping

out where they wanted to go to executing the game plan and to Chris Paul, Devin Booker, Aiton, all of them cats for holding it down for the Valley because it's back and it's pretty cool to see. Plus those Valley Unis are fire. Phoenix, if any Sons, execs are out there listening and I need one

of those, dog. Maybe a couple and you sizes. Howl them. Real ones. Phoenix Sons. Phoenix Sons is a staff record label. And as a motherfucking crew. And if you ain't down with the Phoenix Sons, then YouTube. I love how you didn't curse that time.

You could have, okay, all right. That was weird. That was another edition of real ones, man. It was good to get back in the lab with you and just, you know, like, you know, we usually do the guest thing, but it's always good to get back in the lab with Rasha. Make sure you check out all of our NBA podcast, including the mismatch group chat and the answer.

Also, check out some of our other podcasts on the ringer slate, including R2C2 with who? Vallejo legend C.C. Sabathia. Also check out Black Girl's songbook The Town Legend, Daniel Smith, out here. Man, we will see you guys next week. Hala.