The Ringer NBA Show - Cleveland's Midseason Rebuild and Other NBA Trade Deadline Reactions | Group Chat (Ep. 207)

Episode Date: February 8, 2018

The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier are joined by a plethora of Ringer staffers — Haley O'Shaugnessey, Kevin O'Connor (1:10), Jason Concepcion (13:50), Paolo Uggetti, and Danny Chau (26:10) ��� to try to explain the events of the NBA trade deadline. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, before we get started with today's episode of NBA group chat, which is obviously entirely focused on the NBA trade deadline today. We did want to tell you the Olympics are coming. And while you're at the ringer.com reading about the trade deadline, do yourself a huge favor and read staff writer Katie Baker's piece on the Shibs, a brother's sister figure skating duel who will be competing in the winter Olympics. Katie is one of my favorite writers when it comes to writing about any kind of cold weather sports, be it hockey, be it figure skating, whatever. Bakes is also one of my favorite writers, just full stop. Also, the revamped heat check is on Mondays. We had one this week on a Tuesday. John Gonzalez is hosting. It's basically the entire basketball staff in these short little burst talking about single topics.

Tuesday's episode was awesome. Heat check is on Mondays with John Gonzalez and the deep bench of NBA experts at the ring are sports. So check those things out. Let's get to the show. Basketball is very good. The Raptors are. the best team in the East. Phil Jackson actually saved the Knicks.

Mark L. Fultz will be an all-star next year. Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to the regular NBA show. It's group chat. I'm here with Haley O'Shaughnessy. Just traded you. Justin Barrier. Let's go.

Cleveland's own Kevin O'Connor. What up. I'm Chris Ryan. We are here on NBA trade deadline. We've been on and off live for the last, like, hour and a half because Cleveland blew it up. Cleveland. traded six players or brought in six players.

I don't even know how many players they brought in. We're going to go over the deal details. We'll talk about some of the smaller deals. We'll talk about the winners and losers of the trade deadline. But everything starts in Cleveland. This has been, Cleveland's been the story of the season, bar none.

Even though Oklahoma City remade their roster, even though Houston's like 25 and one when Chris Paul and James Harden play together, Cleveland, all we talk about. Isaiah Thomas basically talks his way out of this franchise after almost winning the MVP award in Boston last season, comes back, hip injury, playing at 70%, throws Tyloo under the bus on a nightly basis.

Boom, he's gone to the Lakers with Channing Fry and a protected 2018 first round pick for Jordan Clarkson and Lairnance. But Kobe Altman and Dan Gilbert were not done yet. They then traded for Roddy Hood and George Hill from Utah and got Jake Crowder and Derek Rose from Cleveland. Sacramento got Joe Johnson from Utah and a Munch Shumpert from Cleveland and a 2020 second round pick from Cleveland via Miami, speaking of whom. traded a second round pick for Dwayne Wade,

who leaves Cleveland after just a few months and now gets to go where he had publicly said he would like to finish his career, back home, reunited with Pat Riley and Eric Spolstra, primed to make a playoff room with that interesting team in Miami. So Justin Very, who has been advocating for months, if not weeks, if not months,

that Cleveland basically get rid of everything and reboot this entire thing around LeBron, you got your wish, is this what you saw? Guys, I did it. You're welcome. Spoke it into existence. Yeah, no.

I mean, shouts to Kobe Altman, young Pacino here, just settling all family business in just one. I mean, we don't know if this move is going to make the Cavs much better. I think they're definitely younger. I think going forward, the fact that they still have this Brooklyn pick puts them in better position. But it's an interesting move. I mean, we saw what happened just the other day against that Orlando Magic team that was starting Kem Birch, them just getting run off the floor.

So at the very least, I think they have an opportunity to not only be better going into the playoffs, but maybe better long-term and maybe even be able to sell LeBron on another year in Cleveland. Well, at least it sells him on the we are capable of making NBA trades that might work. Kevin, now give me, what would you describe this Cleveland team as? This is a whole new roster. Got George Hill starting at point guard. Probably will they start JR at two or Rodney? So maybe George Hill, Rodney Hood in the back court.

LeBron, a healthy Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson is the starting five. You've got Clarkson, Nance, J.R. Corvert, Osmond. It's a deeper team. How would you describe them? Well, I would say, like, they were old and slow in October, old and slow, you know, in January and an early February. And they're not quite as old and slow anymore. Okay. They still have a lot of, you know, older players, a lot of slower players, but they also have infused youth.

So I think for them, they're just more versatile. They're more flexible with what they can do. You mentioned will JR start or will Rodney Hood start? You know, will Thompson start or will it be Larry Nance? They can play more small ball five lineups, you know, with a guy like Nance of the five, you know, rather than leaning on just Thompson. I think they have a more flexible roster where Tyron Loo can get a little bit more creative

with the lineups just as the front office did today with the moves that they made. Okay, Haley, last night, the Cavs beat the Timberwolves in overtime on a LeBron James Christian Leitner-esque game-winning shot. He backs off the foul line after he wins the game. He goes running over to the Cavs Ben. She jumps up in the air. And an image that will haunt me for the rest of my life is Isaiah Thomas running up to him

and trying to hug him, like a kid trying to wrap his arms around a tree trunk. And LeBron never paying him at the least bit of attention for the entire post-game celebration. And then after the game, everybody's singing the praises of Setti Osman who came in and was like basically

Isaiah's defensive sub. And Isaiah said, yeah, like he was pretty good. And like, we are slow and we are old. So we basically need this kid to come in and infuse us. Next day he's traded. What do you think of the, I failed Isaiah Thomas experiment? And now in retrospect, is what they got back in total enough for Kyrie Irving? First of all, let's never forget when that clip of LeBron

or Kevin Love like waiting forever for LeBron to high-five him. Yes. Pretty much the same thing except for Kevin Love escaped getting traded. Yes. Which we don't know entirely if that was like, oh, don't trade him or if they just couldn't get anything from him. Kevin Love big winner considering the team meeting they had. It sounded like Isaiah was the one yelling at Love. Right.

And everyone apparently rallied behind that. It was really mad at Kevin Love. And now he's like, well, I'm still here. So probably credit to Isaiah Thomas being. pretty awful. I do think it's worth the return. I think I'm such a fan of George Hill. Really? Yes. I know that everyone is saying maybe they won't improve that much, but I think George Hill is really going to shock everyone with how much he energizes the team. He's a really good perimeter defender. He's having his best three-point shooting year in his career, he's shooting 45%.

Finally, like, they'll have some additional spacing. So I think that he alone, will really put them a notch up. What do you think about George Hill? I mean, like, it's so funny when these guys who are usually on really competitive, if not title contending teams, then sort of get farmed out to tank teams, like the Kings. And so the numbers are kind of all off. It's like maybe he's having a great three-point shooting season. Maybe it's, he was the only person on the team who could shoot three-pointers.

I don't know. I assume that he's, I assume that he's going to make a meaningful contribution to the team, but he's also a health risk. Yeah, and that's the big issue there. And you speak about just some of the numbers. I mean, Avery Bradley wasn't a good defender, according to metrics when he was on Detroit Pistons, as Kevin and Bill will tell us multiple times.

But, yeah, I think in theory, this makes them a lot more dynamic, but as you bring up, the injury risk is still there. These guys are younger, yes, but George Hill has dealt with a lot of injuries, especially last year in Utah. That was kind of why the market seemed to chill on him over the offseason. And Rodney Hood, a guy that was due a payday. I believe he's up for restricted free agency this summer.

But did the Utah Jazz, again, want to pay another guy who's been injured, a guy who, even when he is healthy, didn't really pop in the way we thought he might, especially with Gordon Hayward going out and him being potentially more featured. So I do, there are risks involved here. I think it's the right risk to take if you're the Cavs team, just because if these guys work, you also have some flexibility going forward. I think the one thing we really need to talk about is just that they still have. this Brooklyn pick.

Yeah. We talked about Dan Gilbert, like, this is what he wanted out of not only the first trade, but this is what he wanted going forward because he wasn't sure if LeBron was going to stay. And I think the calves have done a good job of walking the line. We talk about the clippers walking the line between, well, we want to play for the future 2019, but we also want to still compete from the playoffs. Yes. The calves are doing just like kind of a tweaked version of that.

Right. And we said earlier that we're not sure how much LeBron had to do with this, but it's, it's kind of like the best of both worlds, because he's been saying all season kind of encoded words, I need more around me. You know what I mean? Like, you guys have to do something. Like, I'm playing so many minutes a night.

And even if you didn't have anything to do with it, now the Cavs are like, look, we have the future more set up than we did before. And also, we've surrounded you with better players and a better chance at getting what you want. Yeah, I mean, it's a very responsive move from the Cavs. I actually would take a little bit of issue with what you're saying about LeBron this year

because I feel like, at least from what I've read, the public statements these made have been a little bit more inward looking rather than blaming the team or the coaches. Like I feel like in a weird way, Isaiah almost made him a bystander. Do you know what I mean? Like Isaiah kind of took on the role of antagonist.

This season really going after Ty Loo's adjustments, basically saying you're not as good of a coach as Brad Stevens. But LeBron has just sort of been like, I got to be better. I got to do this. We have to look deep within ourselves. I'm committed for the long haul in the short term. All this like weird stuff.

But I feel like he was like a little bit more walled off this year. which maybe speaks to why this deal works with or without him. Right, but how, I think that we're forgetting that Isaiah was only back for how many games? This is all been, like, 15, 16? This has all been kind of like in recent, like, even the LeBron, like, suddenly being kind of despondent. Yeah. Has all been, like, very recent. Yeah.

And I think it's all sparked from Isaiah coming back and LeBron kind of realizing, oh, my God. This is it. This is our guy. Yeah. So I think that that has. has a lot to do with it too. To me, there's almost nothing to do with LeBron. Interesting.

It's like they're helping now this season, but they help later too. I mean, whether or not LeBron stays, I feel like this sets them up for a brighter future. Because they retain that Nets pick, but they also got a really good young player in Larry Nance, why I like a lot. Jordan Clarkson is just okay. Yeah. But he's still really young, you know, solid player to have on your roster, Ronnie Hood. You know, granted he's had the injury issues and granted he hasn't popped like Justin said.

He's also had some games where he does pop. You know, maybe if you're Cleveland, you're thinking moving forward, well, Hood's a guy that we can keep for, you know, a fair price considering the market this summer, where if we lose a brawn, you might be looking at a roster moving forward with Larry Nance, Kevin Love, Rodney Hood, you know, Jordan Clarkson with a Nets Pit coming in. That's not too bad. It's not bad, man.

And you know what? I wouldn't necessarily go out of my way to say Dan Gilbert learn from his mistakes, but maybe he doesn't want to do the Feaster Famine bit again. Maybe he's like, you know what? Like, we've established basketball as, like, a popular sport in the city. If I can put out a relatively competitive product, maybe people will come through. And who knows, if I get Donkich, Porter, Trey Young, somebody in this draft, like, I can build my next LeBron. Never, you'll never get LeBron.

You'll never have an iconic figure like that. Like, that just doesn't happen. But you don't need LeBron to win a title. Does this Cavs team, does Brad, Stevens, and Dandy Age, do they get to, you know, do they have their, like, late afternoon walk through Boston Common together. And do they say, man, Cleveland's for real now? Or are they like, we got these dudes? I think, you know, they're probably feeling all Cleveland's better.

But, you know, there's more to come. I mean, who's going to get bought out? Well, you know, Memphis, you know, think, you know what? We're not going to resign Terry Evans. Guess we have to buy them out. Joe Johnson could be on the way. Yeah. And they just signed Greg Monroe officially.

If you're Boston, I think you look at Cleveland and think they're a little bit better. Yeah. But it's really hard to add good players mid-season. season and they added a whole bunch of guys. I mean, they get to build chemistry before April, May, and then Cleveland hopes, June. There's no guarantees that the roster clicks in a way that it does on paper. This is an NBA 2K. Right.

All right. Well, we'll be back in just a second. We're going to keep talking about the Cavs. We also want to talk about the Lakers, some of the buyout possibilities and some of the smaller deals that got made in the margins. Thanks to Kevin. We'll be right back. Hey, guys, today's episode of The Ringer NBA show is also brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Are you hiring?

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Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer MBA. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer MBA one more time. ZipRecruiter.com slash Ringer MBA. ZipRecruiter. It's the smartest way to hire. All right, we are back with the NBA Spice Lord. It's like Dune. Jason gets Fesione.

Yes. Spiciest day in a while. Jason, just give me your thoughts, like, off the bat on like this whole Cavs Territ down, build it back up again. Aracus, Desert Planet, Home of the Spice. It's truly shocking. I think, you know, the NBA has become such like an year-round league. I think it's kind of wrote to say that now. this kind of thing is, it's truly wild.

Just like the need to take advantage of LeBron's window. This is like a knock-on effect of the one-plus-one deals that LeBron constantly signs and has pioneered, in fact, in order to maximize his leverage. This is incredible. They essentially traded the entire team. Yeah. Shots to Justin Verrier.

They have, I've seen, I think, Jason Lloyd or Joe Vard, and we're tweeting about, like, they might only have six guys on Friday. This is... I can't wait for this game. The other guys aren't going to be available until Sunday, so they might go out there with, like... I love this. A bunch of Canton guys or whoever their G-League team is.

And tonight, I think it's the Lakers, and that's basic... Well, the Mavs play tonight and the Knicks play tonight. The Lakers play the Thunder. The only people... Yeah, that's basically the only people it affects. Teams that affects. One of the great unwritten, like, alternate timeline stuff,

is like, what if the calves played tonight? Yeah. It would be phenomenal. And what if, like, all the G-League guys for the calves were incredible, like, Jetty Osmond were in. Tyler was like, wait, hold on. Nobody told me these guys were good. Maybe this is how they got Dan Gilbert to sign off on it.

It's like, we're going to fuck over LeBron for a day, but then we're going to be good. Everyone's going to be fine. What do you think goes on in Kobe Altman's mind right now? Like, this is his, like, trial by fire. This dude is fucking flexing right now. He's kicking back, and he's just like, I fucking. just got rid of Dwayne and Wade. I think it's entirely possible.

Wouldn't she be so fearful though? Because like Griffin was successful and then he like let him go. Oh yeah. I mean, Kobe Altman's going to be gone in two years. Yeah. He's the cycle of Chosho are going to have a food blog. I think that it's entirely possible that the calves and to some extent maybe even the clippers and maybe other teams we don't even know Memphis.

Yeah. There's a couple of teams out there where I'm like, I wonder if there are two front offices that work here. Like I wonder if there's an owner making phone calls and a GM making phone calls because with the clippers, they seem to. be going back and forth with like, let's, let's remake this roster, but let's re-sign Lou Williams. You know, let's, we're going to lose DJ for nothing or we're going to keep a 30-year-old center who can't shoot free throws, okay.

Charlotte? Yeah, exactly. There's no reason not to trade Kimball Walker, get off some of those deals and start a new. Right. And then with Memphis, who are going through an ownership, something. Something. They can't get Tyreek Evans, who all of a sudden was valuable for the first time in five years. They can't get anything for him?

That one is the one that perplexes me. Because it's for basically all season. And certainly for the last several weeks, it's been like, everyone has been saying, Memphis has to trade Tyreek. Memphis has to trade Tyreek. It's just why everybody believes this. He's their piece,

their one tradable piece. They were shopping deals, lots of interest. And now they're like, oh, we can't. We need. What are they, yeah, they're like, what are they expecting, like, oh, at least we get to unload as like two million contracts.

It's like they're trying to sell a used PS4 for retail. And this is the only time he's like It's like a Marvin Williams situation essentially for Tyreek at this point in his career But Haley you wrote about this this week where there was like all these interesting guys Who are now untradable because they have 2015 contracts 2016 well yeah and now it's 2000 and now we're talking 2018 economics So many bloated contracts

So Baysmore where he is actually the wing that all these teams are like I'm use a little Baysmore out here you know 40% free point shooter? You brought up Philly Yeah Oklahoma, like all these teams who were like, that would be nice, except you have to pay Camp Bayes more $20 million in two years. And that guy is basically a role player. And the thing is like Atlanta's trying to unload him.

Earlier, there was reports that Travis Schenck, as I you're not. New GM was like, hey, guys, everyone's available except for our rookie, like John Collins. You can have anybody like just send me a good deal and nobody was calling him. I feel like Tate might have actually written that statement for Travis Schenck. He was the only person who's like John the Baptist College is on third. I think the thing with Tyreek though is I wonder how much the ability to just have to pay him immediately kind of factor. And not only is he a free agent this summer, but he's also on a minimum. So you only have restrictions in order to pay him if you have his rights.

I think it's only 120%. So actually other teams can pay him more. And so I wonder if the grizzlies got into a situation where they wanted a pick so badly. They wanted a first. that they were playing a hardball and then they finally got to the end of the line and it's like oh crap we didn't get anything so I mean this is just kind of the madness

of a deadline but at the end of it it's like at the very end who couldn't you call realizing you couldn't get a first rounder and say like oh take this guy on he's super cheap well maybe Danny Ainsh replied back well no it's five minutes to the deadline you get you have a sell and that's it like I don't know this is how some things kind of fall apart Jason I would be remiss if I let you go without talking about the Lakers

we don't have all of the incredible Rob Polinka quotes at hand. When I checked in on the press conference, he was talking about remodeling a home. He was talking about how sometimes trades are win-wins. You get to send Larry Nance back from whence he came and that Jordan Clarkson gets to go to the playoffs now. I have not yet heard about how they feel about Isaiah Thomas.

We talked earlier on the video about how Aaron Goodwin apparently hit up Rachel Nichols, all caps, and said, Isaiah Thomas will not be coming off the bench. and then Luke Walton was like, we'll see about that. So let's talk about the Lakers. Are they, after all the tapping up allegations, after all the tampering allegations, you know, magic's not allowed to mention any NBA player by name,

but have they just set themselves up to make a run at LeBron and or Paul George's summer? I mean, that's clearly their strategy, and it's the traditional Lakers strategy over the last 15 to 20 years. They're back. They're back selling Los Angeles real estate, and trying to get big-name guys.

I think one of the most exciting things that happens right now in the NBA is Magic Johnson in front of a live mic. Yes. I was waiting for him to be like, and you know, this is a great move for us because, hey, LeBron James and Paul George and then just like hearing like cash register sign, like sounds go as like he names dudes. Yeah, this is clearly they're in the market for stars. Yeah.

This is what they've always been doing. I think one of the subplots to watch is the Isaiah's starting situation. Is he going to start? Come off the bench behind Lonzo. What's LeVar going to have to say about that? Apparently, Magic and Rob said IT, they think he can play with Lanzo and mentor him. That's fantastic. Guys, what's the opposite of dead poets is I like?

That is Isaiah Thomas. Imagine that your mentor is being Lovar Ball and Isaiah Thomas. Oh. Lordy. And Coos just taking snapshots. And Coos just roasting you every day for not knowing anything about American history. Listen, you, as Jason was alluding to, the Lakers have been selling this for so long. You have five months until July 1st.

First of all, you better fucking get this right. And second of all, you better have an IMAX movie ready to sell LeBron James. What if they don't get it right? Is Cheney Bus really going to fire Magic Johnson? I honestly don't think they necessarily have to sign a. a big name this summer. I'll tell you why. I'm, no, I'm serious. Because this is exactly, this is exactly why Bus hired them in the first place. She was like, look, my brothers haven't been doing it. Like, you guys have to at least set us up to be the Lakers of old. Like,

we at least have to have the chance. You know what I mean? And it's like, it's their first year. Okay, like give them time. They've at least done this. They've at least created the opportunity. And at the end of the day, eventually, it's Los Angeles. Yes. If it's not this summer, it's going to happen next summer. They'll at least come out of this with Clay Thompson in two years or something like that. And you know what? You're right. And they have been doing a good job.

Like the problem with these guys is, is they have the franchise history hanging over them. So they can say we want to build the right way. We want to be like Boston. We want to have this deep bench of interesting guys who could be assets or could become real contributors. But like the recent history of this team, specifically the dream team, is going to hang over them. And so everybody is always going to assume that Robin Magic are constantly on the verge of, basically being like, do we have to give LeBron James like half of the city to come here, whatever it takes?

But who knows? Maybe they have like a more elaborate and elegant plan in place. I don't think they have a plan, just to be clear. I think the danger is if they strike out on George and LeBron, that they then go bargain shopping and spend too much money. That's the classic free agency mistake. You miss out on the top tier guys and now you're looking at Jabr-O-Rie Parker and going to with Paul George that Indiana did, which is thinking that he could be the only, like,

the number one guy on the team when he really is the 1A. He's Scotty. Before I let you go, really quick, Moody A to the Knicks. The deal was, uh, sorry, Orlando, no, sorry, Denver, New York and Dallas agreeing on a three-way deal. Sources tell ESPN, Moody A to the Knicks, Devin Harris to Denver, Doug McDermott to Dallas. Um, on one hand, New York's making themselves a clearinghouse for your distressed assets. Sure. On the other hand, what do you do? with Frankie if you're bringing Moodye. That's, I mean, that's the issue. Like, is he going to play behind MoodyA?

Can they play together? What is this due to his development? I guess, like, the way you talk yourself into this is, hey, it's, you basically got the seventh pick in the 2015 draft. Great. That, of course, negates the fact that in that intervening time, Moenae has shown himself to be bad. Yeah.

So, you know, it just all comes down to development. Can the Knicks develop young players? the eternal question. History says no. History says no, they can't. And it's also, you know, I'm getting some bad like Hornacek and Phoenix with too many point guard vibes, so we'll see what happens.

Scott Perry coming out and saying, I'll evaluate the coach at the end of this season. I would rent if I were you, Jeff Hornacek. Yikes. Time to get on Zillow, my guy. All right, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back to talk a little bit more about the crazy trade deadline that was.

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and freshly dipped strawberries from sherry's berries. Visit proflowers.com today. Enter promo code ringer at checkout. That's proflowers.com promo code ringer. All right. We're wrapping up NBA. group chat, but we couldn't do it without bringing on Danny Chow and Palau-Ugetty to join us. I'm still here with Justin. Hello, everybody. What's up? I'm shaking, but I think it's because

I'm just extremely hungry. Yeah, I think that the, you know, I've kind of worn off. I had to steal one of college protein bars. Yeah. Not because of George Hill. You're the George Hill, you're the chief, you're John the Baptist of the George Hill Church. Correct. And I told John Gonzalez earlier that George Hill is one of my favorite players of all time, and he just shot me a look like I was just completely bat-shit, but he's not wrong. Okay. So what's the ceiling then with the calves with George Hill? Oh, it's not.

It's not anything. Look, I love him as a player. I love him. He's, you know, a great perimeter defender. Guy can switch basically three positions because his arms are like eight feet long for a guy who's only six three. Great three-point shooter. I think Haley's

covered all of this, but I mean, to be honest, I think he might be kind of washed. What's the hunting scene like in Cleveland? Ohio gets real. Outside of Cleveland, you can go two hours one way or another into a national park? Yeah, I don't really know either.

Could take him to another level. Just saying. Of the other players included in that Cleveland, the Cleveland Hall that they got, who's the most interesting person? Is it Clarkson? Is it Nance? Is it Rodney?

It's Rodney Hood. He's the best player who was acquired in the trade deadline. And I think this is the chance for him to show what he can do because he's going to be a restricted free agent. this coming summer. He was playing in Utah with two extremely tall men who couldn't space the floor.

There was no space really for him to do what he does best, which is kind of create off the dribble. He could shoot off the dribble, which is something that you just don't really get with wings nowadays. And even then, he was coming off the bench averaging almost 17 points a game. Yeah, and he's capable of really going off

and getting a 30 point out. I agree with Danny, but I'm kind of intrigued also by Nance I'm sure you know you guys have talked about this like he brings a level of phyticism that I think Cavs were kind of missing you know and and he's just this scrappy guy like and he's already buying into it like I mean his dad played for the cabs and he put an Instagram up just now being like oh be forever gave for Tilla Lakers and he hashtag it just the kid from Akron

but you know come on like oh he's already buying into the bit I love it I love it so I'm intrigued by Nance I have something I want to bounce off of you okay um does LeBron James make teammates better yeah he does I mean, maybe not like their confidence and like long term just because of all the sub tweets and shade that he throws out. Okay. Like Kevin Love is probably like going to need therapy for years. But I think overall, like he's the guy that's just going to accelerate your offense for sure. I mean, even in the playoffs.

So there's no danger that we've reached a point where like LeBron is almost in this Kobe zone of its like LeBron incorporated. And like it's really more about like what LeBron does on a night to date basis. And for as much as he's like, I'm invested in this team and the short term in the long haul. for this year, whatever the hell that means, that a bunch of these new faces are going to come in, and LeBron does the math in his head and it's like, yeah, this isn't going to work this year. I mean, you're going to get a lot of open shots,

and that's what we were kind of saying about some of the other options going into the deadline, what we were saying about IT and some of these other guys, like, you just need to sit there and you need to shoot it. And to a large degree, the Cavs couldn't get that right because a lot of these guys, their legs were just weren't there. They were past their prime. And, like, we got to the point in that Orlando game.

You said this the other day, LeBron didn't trust any of them to do anything. And so he was just trying to go, I saw LeBron, and he was getting deeded up by young birds. I think everyone they acquired today knows what their role is going to be on the Cleveland Cavlers. He's getting me fired up for the Cavs. The Cavs are going to be pretty good?

Look, are they going to challenge the Warriors? No. Are they better than the Celtics or Raptors right now? I don't think so. Raptors. But I think like there's just so many. We were so worried about how Isaiah would fit in right away with the cabs when he came back.

what's not to see that you're adding a bunch of, like, it's like Isaiah's situation, granted, they weren't injured, but to another degree because you're going to have to mix in so many new players. Like, I'm kind of worried about that in general. Yeah, just the, I mean, like, okay, so the interesting comparison point, we've talked about this a little bit,

would have been Oklahoma. Oklahoma took, what, 30 games to start clicking. The defense was working, but they were blow games late. There was an unclear, like a lack of clarity about how their end-of-game offense is going to work? Is Russ going to move the ball, or is you going to go ISO Russ like he did last season?

And they seem to have figured out some of that. They always seem to rise to the occasion in big games but can't seem to take care of business when it's just like beating the Kings or whatever or something like that. With Cleveland, how many games do they need to integrate? What is essentially an entirely new roster? And what kind of test is this for Ty Loo to do this?

This is training camp and the beginning of a season in the second half of the season. I think that's a good point. I think the detractors would say, man, Tailu really needs to figure this out. He needs to get these guys in there. On the other hand, they pretty much just run pretty basic stuff anyway. So you could just throw guys in. It's almost like Alvin Gentry does, where it's a lot of it's just based on pace.

It's spacing. It's just like dribble handoffs and spread pick and roll sort of stuff. You just run a lot of basic stuff. I think these guys are versatile enough. George Hill, Rodney Hood, as Danny alluded to. A lot of these guys could run, can be the ball handler, could set some off-screen ball screen. I think a lot of it makes sense. I feel like the blueprint here is when, you know,

the Cavs acquired Channing Fry. He comes in and he's just like, okay, yeah, I'm just going to be a pick and pop guy. And it worked perfectly. And that's still what he does. Nothing's changed. You know, the Warriors have an incredible offense. They have all these different combinations.

They can throw at you. But essentially when you get down to it, those three guys are unguarded by five guys, right? So that's the proposition that the calves are hoping to make. that if George Hill, Rodney Hood, LeBron James, and Kevin Love were on the floor, you can't guard all of them. And one of those guys will get their basket or at least get a good look. Right.

It goes back to exactly what Isaiah Thomas wasn't doing, which was making shots. He was shooting 30% from the deal. There's no gravity. He was pulling no gravity off the floor. So if George Hill and Rodney Hood can shoot even just a little better than that, then the offense should work better. Do you guys have any smaller deals you want to highlight before we go? Absolutely. So, the Sons in Magic traded for a swap between, it was a swap between Alfred Payton and a second rounder.

And this is clearly a huge win for both teams. One, because Alfred Payton was basically ruining the magic. Whatever the magic we're trying to do. You can't have a, you know, a ball-dominant point guard who can't shoot in today's league and expect. to be anything more than a, you know, seller-dweller. But on the other hand, the Sons were starting Tyler Ullis, who is the smallest player in the NBA, possibly with the frailest frame,

and their backup was a guy named Josh Gray, who paid $150 to do an open-run tryout at the G-League. I did not know that. He is their second-string guy because Isaiah Canon. Didn't they have like 11 point cards in the line? Where's Brandon? It was all attribute. Have you heard from me?

him in like a year? Yeah. No, I mean, just like, has anyone checked on him? Yeah, no, I read a USA Today article about him or Arizona Republic article about him the other day. He's like, I'm getting there. And so bad. You drop in a top 10 pick out of the one who is very bad.

But like, you know, he is better than Ulyss, at least. This is the Brooklyn thing. It's like, hey, bring us your distressed first round lottery picks. Look, it gives Alfred a chance to redo his entire, you know, image. Yeah. Like, what if he just pins as, hair back. This is a suggestion.

That's all I care about. That's all I care about. You pin that flap of hair back and suddenly he either looks like a British Sentinel or you know what? It might look like a Pope hat the way it's shaped. Right. Yeah. Dub himself the young Pope.

Change the look of his career as well. The young Pope. That's a great nickname. That's a good nickname. Palo, before we go, any deal, either a small deal that you liked or a deal that didn't happen that mystifies you. Like, why didn't this get? I mean, it's too easy to say Tyrie Kevin's not getting dealt. The reports are coming out that basically, like, they had multiple offers from not just, you know, from somebody like Denver who offered Moodye and a second one pick. And apparently they just want to, I just don't understand what they were looking for. I mean, Jason talked about, you know, the PS4 analogy and all that. It's just, it makes no sense. Like, what are you going to do with Tyroek Evans? There's so many teams who were willing to give you something for him. Like, this is as high as the stock is going to get. It's not going to, it's just going to drop from here on out. There's no, there's no point. I think the ripple effects are super interesting. Yeah. You look about the team.

look at the teams that didn't do anything. The Rockets and the Thunder are pretty much involved in every deadline. I can't remember the last time the Rockets didn't swing some little trade. And you wonder, like, yeah, we've talked about 2018 this summer just being just kind of a chilled market

because no one's going to have cap space and like, sure, maybe this is best for them long term. But I think it opens up really interesting questions. Why didn't they do one thing? I think it's because they read Zach Cramm. Yeah, exactly. You don't need to make a move. Yeah, if you're a final contender.

Hey, if LeBron is, isn't going to go to the Lakers, maybe the Rockets, based on not doing anything, have more moves. I also wonder about the bottom of the West. Yeah. The Pelicans all of a sudden look very vulnerable, because the Clippers still have DJ, they still have enough. They still have Ivory Bradley. There was a rumor this

morning that they were looking to trade him for Danny Green and a pick. Yep. Yeah. It's just like, I can't believe that Popovich would do that and he didn't. I mean, in that sense, the Warriors are kind of winners. I saw somebody point this out because Avery Bradley didn't go to either the Spurs or that's a really good point. And I mean, that's

just he would have given staff or anybody trow on that team so just the fact that nobody even like tried to one up or get that guy on their team is just like kind of mind-boggling. Yeah, I didn't even thought about that. That is good. I mean like I think that Boston and Toronto are going to have to say, okay, like we're going to have to do a new, a whole new, like,

scouting run on these new cabs. And in a five, seven game series against LeBron James, anything can happen as we've seen over and over again. But it will be an interesting challenge to see it's continuity versus completely new rosters. the Eastern Conference. Anything, any closing thoughts, any other check out this or make sure you keep your eye on that going forward? Rodney Hood, man. Rodney Hood. I love it. Rodney Hood is the best player traded on trade deadline is a take. That's a good take. Pistons also got James

Ennis, which I think is like a sneaky good one at the buzzer just because like they need some help. And Jamir. Yeah, I like Jimir on that team. Well, yeah. Come on. A little Orlando Magic nostalgia, of course. I like the buyout market. I mean, everybody's been talking about how like it's going to be robust and going to be guys at there you have like Joe Johnson. Derek Rose. Derek Gross who's apparently going to go. Maybe Isaiah Thomas. Yeah, maybe I was Zia Thomas even though the Lager said they don't have plans on buying him out.

You know, Brooke Lopez, Corey Burr, even Yokam Noah. Anybody want to give him a chance? He seems like a classic, like, decrepit person to go be on the Thunder. So take the Kendrick spot. All right, thank you to Danny, to Powell, to Justin, to Haley, to Jason Concepcion, and to Kevin O'Connor. I'm Chris Ryan.

You can read all about NBA Tread deadline today on The Ringer.com. We have tons pieces up there. I'm sure we'll have more pods. We have tons of video. Check it out. It was a hell of a day. We will be tracking this the ripple effects from this trade deadline for the rest of the season. You're welcome, guys. Basketball is very good.

Basketball is very good.