The Ringer NBA Show - Collapsing Cavs, New-Look Pistons, Wizards Without Wall, and Trade Deadlines | Heat Check (Ep. 205)

Episode Date: February 6, 2018

The Ringer’s John Gonzalez brings on Shea Serrano to discuss the tumultuous Cleveland Cavaliers (3:30), Jonathan Tjarks to deliberate over the Pistons’ future (18:45), Joe House to question whether the Wizards should trade John Wall (32:35), and Kevin O’Connor and Jason Concepcion to review previous trade deadlines and preview the upcoming one (44:35). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's a boat torch. It's a heat check. You knew that was coming. It's heat check time. Welcome to the heat check. I am John Gonzalez. As you guys have probably realized, because you're smart listeners and you've got a calendar, it is not Monday.

It is Tuesday. Normally we do this podcast on Monday. The reason why we're doing it on Tuesday today is because I was at the Super Bowl. I went to Minneapolis in February to watch Nick Foles, who almost retired, try to beat Tom Brady and the Patriots. And it happened. which is like the craziest thing that's probably ever happened to anybody in Philadelphia. But so as a result, I was traveling back on Monday. And as you can hear, I'm a little under the weather.

I picked up. I think it's the flu or maybe Ebola, but I'm definitely a little sick. So my apologies on that one. It's yet another way that Philadelphia has infected the ringer. So if I'm coughing, take that Bill Simmons. But also Juliet, as you probably noticed, is not here as well. And that's because we're going to try something new on the heat check. We're going to go back to Monday's next week. Juliet is an amazing hang. I absolutely love talking to Juliet Lippman. The problem is everybody loves talking to Juliet Litman. She has been super, super busy. She's got Jam Session, the wildly successful Bachelor Party. She's on Sources Say. She does House of Carbs. She does heat check. Juliet Podcast Incorporated LLC, buy stock in that because she's really, really good. She's also our managing editor here.

So she's spread a little bit thin. So instead of Juliet being on the podcast, every week, she'll be here semi regularly instead of omnipresent. So that's the bad news. The good news is that I work at an amazing place full of really, really fun people. And before I ever worked here, before I had ever written a word for us, before I had ever been on a podcast, I would be like you guys. And I would sit there and listen or read stories and be like, man, I would love to have a conversation with Chris Ryan or Kevin O'Connor or Jason Concepcion or Shea. And guess what? Now I do work here and now I can do those things. And so can Isaac. Isaac is still going to be on the ones and twos. Yeah, I'm still here. Isaac is still here. I haven't been fired yet. Neither of us have been fired. I'm going to

remedy to that immediately, Isaac. I'm going to make sure that Simmons gets both of us escorted off the lot. But so that's what we're going to do moving forward. We're going to make this the same sort of heat check, but it's going to be conversational. We're going to rotate in all your favorite ringer personalities every week and tailor it to whatever conversations are hot in the NBA. Like, heat check is the perfect name for this podcast. The conversations that we have offline in the office, I promise you, I work with an office full of heat check people. So it's going to be fun. I'm excited for it. Isaac, you excited?

Super excited. Super excited. All right, let's get it started. So coming up on the show, today we're going to have Jonathan Charks on whether the Pistons should go all in and acquire more pieces. Joe House is going to be on the podcast. He's going to talk about his beloved wizards and how all of a sudden they're doing a lot better without John Wall.

I think addition by subtraction is very interesting there. And then later on in the program, I wrote a piece about the last 10 trade deadlines where I ranked them. The trade deadline is this week. So we're going to bring in KOC and Jason Concepcion to talk about trade deadlines, which is super, super fun. But first, a guy I love reading and I'm super excited to talk to. Shea Serrano is going to join us to talk about the Cavs. He had some really fun tweets. He was thrown some shade at the Cavs. So Isaac, dial him up. All right, joining us on the other line, one of the most famous people at the ringer, maybe the most famous person on Twitter.com. He's everywhere. It took us a while, though, to get him on the phone

because apparently he gave us a fake number at first, and Isaac had to track down the real number. Shea Serrano's on the other line. Shea, is this your burner? I gave Isers up and down. He knows about rap. He asked me for a phone number. I gave him Mike Jones' phone number. It's the most famous minute. Yeah, it took him a while. I had an email him back. Like, hey, you dork. That's not my number. How dare you? Isaac, his pop culture references begin in 1992 when he was born. I believe I have his date. 1994. 94, excuse me. Yeah. So anything that predates 94, he's out on. No, this was mid 2000. Yeah, see, he should be in on that. I guess so. That's my fault.

That is your fault, Isaac. I also learned this week that Isaac signs his emails as ICE, which is fucking incredible. Yeah, I didn't know we were allowed to do that. Apparently, he's got his own rules. I didn't know he went by ICE either. He said that to me. one day on the podcast and said that only his good friends call him ice, and I have been calling him Isaac. So I guess that tells me where you have to earn the right. You have to earn the right to call him ice. That's even better than just a normal nickname. Apparently so. All right, so I wouldn't have you on to talk about the Cavs because while I was at the Super Bowl, hey, shouts again to the Eagles and Ice or Isaac, at any point, if you just want to drop in the Eagles fight song, feel free to do so.

but I was at the Super Bowl and I was reading your tweets and you had me rolling per usual. You tweeted out that the calves are like if that thing where when you want to just get an argument over with, so you go, yeah, okay, was a basketball team? And you also said maybe Kyrie was right. Yo, Shay, was Kyrie right? I think he was right. I think he definitely knew this was going to happen. At Caval, so every single thing.

They're terrible on defense. Right now they have the 28th worst defense. Oh, no, wait, 28th best. their third to last in all of the defense and all of NBA. They're only ahead of the Kings and the Sun, which is never a place. They're like, I think, tied for 14th and 3s this season, last season they were second. Yeah. It's just really, it sucks.

Also, they play in Cleveland. It's very tough. They're 19th in net rating overall, but since January 1, so for the new year and since Isaiah has come back, they're 29th in net rating. Only the Phoenix Suns are worse. And I think it's like, yeah, it's not a good, as you mentioned, not good company to be in. But then on top of that, I don't know, where are you on Isaiah? Because I love Isaiah, but Isaiah being, like, blaming dudes and saying, like, I don't know the last time we got on the floor for loose ball and talking about defense when, like, I don't think I've ever seen Isaiah play defense is kind of squirley.

Was yelling at the band. Like, what are you guys doing? Why didn't you play a song to tell me that we were going to hit the iceberg? You guys are off. You guys are off note. You got to hit your notes. Exactly. Do you think they like Kevin Love?

No, they've never liked Kevin Love. His whole time at the Cavs, he's been an outsider, which is really crazy because, like, okay, I wrote a thing. Last week I wrote it about Tuesday night, so we were like, you know what, let's not run this thing. Because it was all about, like, is this Kevin Love's fault? Is this Isaiah's fault? Whatever, didn't want to be like, like, that's not a cool thing to do. Another ringer curse.

Yeah. And the piece I was talking about that, about how he has always sort of, you can go back, to 2015, I think it was, when everybody made a big deal about LeBron posting the picture on Instagram where it was like my click or whatever, and everybody was in there except for Kevin Love. Yeah, I remember that. Like, that's been his whole vibe since then. And what's really wild about that is if you look back at that picture, Kyrie's gone, Timothy is gone, right?

Perth is gone. Like, everybody left LeBron except for Kevin Love. Kevin Love has always been there. Kevin Love was the first guy in LeBron's arm when they won the championship. if that's who he was holding as he cried with Kevin. But he just gets this. He is a dork, but I kind of like that about him. If you're a dork, I'm a dork, I'm a nerd.

You got to, like, you got to own it. And, like, for example, after the All-Star voting came out, and they asked him where he thought he got picked, and he busted his own balls. And he was like, I was probably last. I'm that tall dude who can shoot that they were just like, yeah, sure, we'll put you on the team. I thought that was hilarious.

He was poking fun on himself. I think it's weird that they don't like Kevin Love and especially because Isaiah's been on the team for a hot second. And, like, Juliette always gives me heat about, about defending Isaiah and saying that there's too much Isaiah love out there. But I do find it strange that he came in and immediately was like, yeah, I'm also going to shit on Kevin Love. Yeah, that's just what you do. Isaiah is so charming.

And also, he has phenomenal teeth, which is really helpful. If you've got that big smile like that, that you just turn on and everybody falls in love with you, you use it to your advantage. You know, it reminds me of this is an anecdote that only I'm going to understand and maybe if my family is listening. But my sister who's underneath me, second oldest in the family, she married this guy who everybody just sort of shits on all the time now. He's like, because he's kind of this dopey, dorky dude. So everybody makes fun of them all the time. For like years, this has happened.

They were married for several years. And then one of my cousins married this other guy. And everybody was like, oh, are we shifting the hate to the new guy? But he showed up. And he was this very charmed, very sweet guy. And like the first day we were hanging out. he made fun of the other guy and everyone was like, well, there we go, we're just going to stick with that. I think that's what happened here.

Isaiah just made a joke his first day. Everybody laughed and were like, well, we'll just keep making fun of the guy who did the chocolate milk commercial. I love that the Serrano family has like pretty ingrained hazing rituals. What's the one who, the cousin or the boyfriend who gets shit on has his teeth? No good? He can't smile? He's got decent teeth, but there are no Isaiah teeth. Okay, so he needs to get those cleaned up. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

What about Ty Lou? are you worried about Ty? A dead man walking phrase. Like, he knows he's just waiting to get the phone call. I like Ty. I think he's fine. But yes, like a couple of weeks ago, or maybe it was even just a week ago, it feels like the calves are aging in dog years right now.

But like when they were like, oh, what are you going to do with your team? And he goes, nothing. I'm going to keep it as is. I'm like, what? What? And then finally he decided to make a move and, you know, it was bringing Isaiah off the bench for a second or benching him in the fourth quarter, which I don't know. You have to, it has to be Tileau. It has to be.

Yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's not going to do anything as like in his car. He goes, I'll just turn the AC off and maybe that'll help. That's what that was. It's totally going to cool it down. It's going to be fine. It's that meme that says, this is fine. I mean, if you're them, like, this feels like it would be, Danny just wrote about this. Danny Chow just wrote about this on the ringer, where it feels like it's a little 20-10-ish where, like, they've got a lot of things going on with LeBron, and they want to make sure that he stays,

so they've got to go out and try to add some pieces just in the hopes that they'll keep him. But if they do, like, they probably got to move that Brooklyn pick or maybe their own pick. Would you move either of those picks? I mean, because for the first time, I think like, LeBron is vulnerable in the East now. Yeah, it's a rap for LeBron and Cleveland,

it feels a lot. Like, if you would ask me at the beginning of the season, will he be there, then yeah, for sure. He would never leave Cleveland. He'd be leaving, and all of a sudden, the Celtics looked like a very serious threat. A lot like he's out of there. because he could have committed already.

He could have come on and said it. It feels like he's gone, man. They can't do anything. He has a no trade clause. Maybe they can ask him to waive that. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, I think, like, they got to try to bring pieces in. But then it's like, you know, what's their actual real ceiling?

It's interesting, though, that you said that you think it's already a rap on LeBron, like even before the deadline, even before they make moves. I've been wondering about this. Just from, like, a narrative standpoint, from a storyline standpoint, because I love the storylines in the NBA. If he leaves, is that an... automatic WWE, like, he'll turn again if he leaves, is he going to get heat automatically? No, he's good.

It's a whole different. Right now, he would leave. A picture of their penis, but not that long ago. Tell me. Of the cabs, I think right now they have 15 active players. 13 of them came either by trade or free agency. I think it was like eight they traded for, five they signed it a free agency. So to me, they've never shown, as I'm saying, there's just nothing, there's nothing that can

happen. It doesn't feel like. It feels like that's the end of the Cavs era. Which is crazy because like over the summer when Kyrie was like trying to get out of town, like at the time I was like, all right, you know what? You get rid of Kyrie and you know, you go with Isaiah and you'll get another pick and it'll be fine. But in retrospect, like if you could hit the undo button, like if they're, imagine like a button where you could just hit hard reset on that and just say, okay, actually we're going to keep Kyrie and like LeBron's going to walk anyway. Like, would you do that? 100% yes

I think I want too you'd have to convince him somehow yeah LeBron was such a compelling and gigantic figure that I think everybody was guilty of overlooking how important Kyrie was it was like oh he's just a guy who's good in the ISO and makes cool layups like that

and now he's gone and like oh shit he was like in a very important piece for Isaiah and I was like oh cool they got like a tiny ear Kyrie it'll be fine everything will be fine yeah it's crazy like I didn't expect Kyrie to be this good

and I didn't expect it to blow up that quickly, but at, what was it, the Eastern Conference Finals last year, Dave McMedaman asked him, do you ever think what it would be like to have your own team? Which is the kind of question that I generally wouldn't think to ask in a pack setting because, like, who's going to answer that? And especially Karee, who tends to be, like, pretty reserved in those pack interviews. But he flat out said, yeah, I think about it all the time.

And now he's off running just, I was like, I was blown away. I was like, oh, my God, I can't. That was a really honest answer. And then, like, minutes later, he was like, yeah, I want the hell out of here. Otherwise, I'm going to sit out for surgery. So, all right. So if this thing blows up, though, and you're right, and LeBron goes, and like you said, he's got that currency from the championship, so people aren't going to hate on him,

and they're not going to, like, burn his jerseys, and it's still going to be okay if he leaves. Where do you want to, forget about, like, where you think he might end up? Where do you want to see him end up? Oh, I have to say this first. That would be really interesting. see him in that jersey. I want to see him with pop. I want to see what happens there when you've got the smartest basketball player in the world with the smartest basketball coach in the world. What sort of shit are they going to come up with together?

Being more to the players like he did with Lamarcus, but he's in player thinking, that would be a cool thing to see. Also, if not there, I would want to see him go to a team like the Lakers. He could do a thing that, like, if you go to the Lakers and win a championship, or even get them to, like, the finals or something. That's a big move that you can. and, you know, put it. Yeah, the Houston thing would be interesting just because, you know, like the banana, half a banana boat down there with CP,

if CP stays. But the Lakers, yeah, like, for the Lakers, I always wonder about everybody wanting to go to the Lakers. Like, look, I live in Los Angeles. It's amazing. Like, I'm never going, I love Philadelphia.

Philadelphia, like, we just won a Super Bowl. I don't know if you guys heard about that. It's all my friends and family are there. I'm never leaving Los Angeles. California is fantastic. So I get that, but like, from a Lakers perspective, like, I don't know, everybody, there's been so many star players, you're going to be one of however many.

I'd like to see him go somewhere else. He should go to the Sixers. Go to the Sixers, win a title with Embed. It's Title Town now. Go there. That's not homeristic at all. Yeah, no, it's totally homeristic, which I think you just coined that word, Isaac, and I like it. We're going to put that in the lexicon. Ice, you got to call him ice. Ice, I'm warming into it. Like, I don't want to overstep my bounds, you know? Yeah, I don't know if you're close enough for that.

Yeah, he's going to let us know. You mentioned the Spurs, though, before we let you go. Is Quai Alive? What's happening with quiet. Do they still like each other? Is he in witness protection with Markell Fultz? What's happening? You think he's gone? Yes. My sources, by the way, are that... So, I don't know anybody that actually knows anything. I just read it on there. How sad would you be, if that's true? I don't know how sad I would be. The idea has been floated out there long enough that he might be leaving or that they might trade him. That feelings part, you know, when you first get bad news, you're sad, and then you get to the

part where you're mad about it. Like, that's where I am. right now, I'm at the bad part. So if he left, I'd be like, cool, fuck Kauai. Like, I never liked him anyway. I would just start lying and saying stuff like that. And I would be super into whoever they brought in, like, oh, we got Jason Tatum. That's what's up. He's a superstar anyway. That's the card I would play. That's how I feel. It's a defense mechanism. You've got to protect yourself. You got to worry about you. Exactly. You got a family. All right, go back to your wonderful family. What are you working on this week? Anything you want to plug for the ringer? No, I'm not writing anything ever again.

Okay, he's done writing. He's got to... Look, he's got to... Look, he's got two New York Times number one bestsellers. He's good. Only one was the number one. Nah, let's just tell everybody, too. Let's make them both. If Isaac can call himself ICE, then I can lie about my house. Yeah, look, facts, we're in a post-fact world right now.

Chase Serrano, two-time New York Times bestseller. Thank you for joining us on the heat check pod homes. All right, Gonzo. Talk to you, man. Ice, Isaac, my man. Let's dial up our next guest. We're going to get Jonathan Charks in to talk about the Pistons. Lockup. He's heating up.

All right, we're back and we're joined on the other line by one of the smartest guys at the ringer, and we're full of smart guys, which is really impressive. I think that's a very nice way to bring them in. It's Jonathan Charks. What's up, Charks? Well, that was very nice of you. I don't know how much that. I'll take it, though. Truth in advertising, homie.

So when we were putting together the outline for the show, we were talking about, like, various storylines in the NBA. And I didn't expect to be talking about the Pistons because I thought the trade was a little strange. But then all of a sudden, the Pistons, since the trade, have won four in a row, Griffin only played in three of those, but Charks, are the Pistons fun now? I think they kind of have to be, right? There's no turning back for them. Like, they got to put all their chips in and let's see where Blake can take them.

Why not, right? Yeah, and like, for Blake's purposes, when I saw the trade, I was like, that has got to suck. Like, he's an L.A. dude. He likes to, you know, he's dating, I think, Kendall, one of the Jenner's. Yeah, there we go. Kendall Jenner. This is why I need Juliet here, because she would and immediately know not only who he was dating, but also where they had had their last meal and where they're going out tonight. I'm not up on that stuff.

So I was like, ah, that's going to, Detroit, much colder, not nearly as cool. However, team-wise, it's interesting. I don't know what to make of this fit. Do you like the fit? I think if anything with Blake, I just like going to the Eastern Conference. Yeah.

You feel like he was never going to do it in the West, and the East is pretty wide open. He's 28. They have some interesting players, and then he gets a chance to just go in the Eastern Conference playoffs. and try. Yeah, that's a really good point. And as we record this right now, they are tied with the Philadelphia 76ers with a 500 record. Technically, they're a game behind because they've played two more

games. But they're right on that, like, back end of the playoff cusp, which is interesting because, you know, pre-Blake Griffin, I'm looking at their net rating right now, Charks. They're middle of the pack. The pistons are 17th in net rating, which still puts them ahead of the Cleveland Cavaliers, Whomp-womp. Nice. Yeah. Like, what do you think about their prospects

to make the playoffs? Would you put them in? Do you give them a good shot? I think they probably would make it just because the East is so... I mean, the bottom of the East is not exactly Murderers Row. Not good.

But I don't think... I think they'd have to make another trade if they wanted to do anything in the playoffs. So here's the bottom of the East before we get into like what we think that they might do trade-wise on Thursday or before then. The Celtics and Raptors are like way ahead of everybody.

And then three through eight is a total toss-up it's separated by four and a half games. You've got the calves, wizards, bucks, pacer, heat, Sixers, and Pistons. Of those teams, who do you think the pistons are better than? I would say the Sixers probably. I like this. I had only planned to cut Kevin O'Connor's mic,

and Kevin's going to be joining us later in the show. Isaac, make sure that you are ready to cut Charks' Mike. All right, so you've got the Pistons over the Sixers, which is madness, but I'll forgive it. I think you're right. You mentioned that you think that the Pistons have to make a move for the deadline and go all in. What do you think they need, though?

I mean, to me, they need shooting on the perimeter. Like, they need, like, everyone else needs. They need three-ndy guys. They need a wing who can shoot, maybe give us a little offense to and guard. Yeah, that's pretty much everybody, though. And I think you're right, though, that they have to add because, you know, if you're SVG,

I mean, you're trying to buy some time here. Not to mention the fact that they've got that arena and they've got to put some people in it. Yeah, I mean, this is his last chance. You have Blake for five years, but is he going to be healthy in that time? like he's 28. You just got to go for it now and just pray for the best.

Yeah, those contracts, too, for Reggie Jackson and Andre Drummond are interesting. Like, I know that you made the trade for Reggie Jackson, so you had to give him the money. But, like, Reggie Jackson is fine. He's fine. Like, I wonder what this team is going to look like with him and Blake, whoever they might add. I mean, I don't know. I just wonder what they're upside at is. I get the idea of you've got to add because, like you said, you know, what else is that SVG going to do?

not going to just throw his hands up at this point. But I just wonder like what their actual ceiling is. Well, to me, with the wings they have now, it's a first round exit for sure. You really can't trust Stanley Johnson, Luke Conard, Reggie Bullock to be enough. Would you move Stanley Johnson? See, to me, I think the trade you make is Stanley Johnson for Rodney Hood. I think that makes sense for both teams. That does make sense for both teams. Although like for the Pistons, I like it because, you know, Rodney Hood can score the ball. There's no doubt about that. The only problem is to score the ball, you have to be on the court, which not always Rodney Hood's forte. This is true. I think then you're even going further all in. You're saying we got a bunch of injury

prone guys, repraining to the basketball guys that it works out because if not, SFD is getting fired anyways. So let's just hope it works out. Yeah, and Hood had 30 points last night. I mean, he was, he was killing it. And I've always liked Rodney Hood. And I think like now that they've got Donovan Mitchell and Utah, you know, they might be ready to see what they can get for Rodney Hood. That could be a really interesting, like everybody helps everybody outtrade there. It's fascinating to me, too, like watching Blake Griffin incorporate with the Pistons now. And like Blake Griffin, who when we watch him on the court is sometimes like a grump and he's yelling at, you know, opposing coaches or referees or whatever when he was in Los Angeles. And then all of a sudden he gets to Detroit

and he's playing Mr. Nice Guy. Like, do you think he needed a fresh start or is this like a production? I mean, I think everyone did at a certain point. Like, it had been, what, 10 years? Yeah. You have to just try. Life is short. Some things are meant to, they played out. Yeah.

Like, Blake has to at least have a chance to do something different. I really like Blake. I really especially like off court Blake. And on court Blake, I've liked more recently because, you know, like the, and you wrote about this last year, wasn't it you that wrote the piece about like Point Blake? Yeah, yeah. He's an amazing passer. He's a fun player to watch.

But the idea of like max contract Blake, two years from now, now in Detroit? I wonder what that's going to look like. Is SVG even still around? All of a sudden, like, then it's not, this is new and I'm excited and like, let's see what we can be. It's just, oh, yeah, shit, I live in Detroit. Yeah, I mean, I'd say the odds of this blowing up are really high. I think Bill mentioned a while ago, the Amarid in New York thing,

and it feels very Amari to New York. Like, they'll probably work right away. You got an older guy on a massive contract with bad knees. The odds of the working long term are really low, realistically, just because of his health. If you're Blake, like, what odds would you give on? Let's just say that, like, forget about the SVG component and like this team and what it can be. You met like the health component is a really important part here, not to mention location. Again, he's now in Detroit, which I think like, and in a couple weeks he's going to look around and like really miss Southern California. Like, what percentage chance would you ascribe to him like one day being like, you know what, I'm good. I'm not even going to play through the end of this contract.

Oh, I mean, zero percent. That's too much money. Too much money to go up. $80 million. Yeah. You know, you can always act. I don't think there's any. He's going to be acting as a basketball player. Hey, as Andrew Bynum once said, man, there's a bank in every city, you know. That's a good point. I don't feel too bad for Blake. That's a lot of money. That is a lot of money. And like, he is getting paid to stay in Detroit.

All right, Charks, why are you here? I also want to get into a little Dallas stuff because you're our resident in all things Dallas expert. Dirk New Whiskey is still in the league. I was in Dallas. I actually worked for Dallas Observer way back when Dirk was a rookie. Your prime. Your peak years in Dallas. They were my peak years. It's been downhill since then. The ringer is getting a shell of myself. But so he's

played over 50,000 minutes now and I think that's absolutely bananas. And there was a stretch of 13 years there during that stretch, he only missed 42 games, which I can't even comprehend. Yeah, I always say, if you never jump, it's hard

to get hurt. You stay on level ground. Like, you just doing shooting drills for 13 years. You walk up and down the court. You just do your shots. Don't jump. Don't move on defense. You stay healthy. You stay healthy, right. You got to, I actually realize this, like, the older, I'm 40 now. So, like, the older I get, the more that, like, physical activity on anything that isn't super forgiving as a surface acts to, you know, hamper me. Oh, I mean, I'm 30 years old. Nice. I feel that. Like, I can't barely move Yeah, I went for a run the other day and was pretty sure I was going to end up in traction. So the fact that Dirk Gilleske is like still running up and down the court is amazing.

And also I think it's pretty great that he has stayed in Dallas his whole career. I know that, you know, some Mavs fans, you know, and it's probably a distinct minority, maybe one of them to reset earlier. But there's something to be said for a guy playing out his entire career with one organization, being the face of the franchise and still doing it at his age. Like I think it's really cool to watch. I know it's been a bad season for them, but it's okay with me to have this be his farewell tour

because I want nice things for you in Dallas. That's really what matters is my entertainment. It's really at the top of my list. You've got the right thing. You've got the right stuff in mind. It's really at the top of my to-do list. It's like, in the morning I get up and I'm like, all right, I have two dogs.

I have to walk the dogs. And I'm like, what can I do to make Charks smile? Now we're talking. That's it. You got anything you want to plug coming out on the ring of this week? We're just doing a bunch of trade deadline stuff. Then we got a cool. I think that's next we're doing a LeBron versus MJ series.

I've got a cool piece coming on that. That should be fun. Nice. The Friday show. And the Friday show. Oh, yeah, the NBA draft show. Thank you. Isaac Lee, podcast or extraordinaire.

Friday NBA draft show. Jonathan Charks, he's everywhere. He's writing stuff. Read them. Listen to him. Charks, thanks, Holmes. Yeah. Have a good one, man.

All right. All right. We're going to get Joe House on the line to talk about the Wizards. And then later on in the show, we're going to have Kevin O'Connor and Jason Concepcion to talk about previous trade deadlines and the upcoming one.

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I'm very excited for our next guest on the other line from House of Carbs and from Shack House. How'd I do on that one? It's Joe House. It's okay. You have to work on this Shack. House a little bit, but not a bad try. Wongon. I'm going to call you Wangan if that's all right, John Gonzalez.

This is the first time we've podcasted together. I want to make sure that we have our own special term of endearment for each other. So you can call me whatever you want, but I'm going to call you Wangan for these purposes. You can call me whatever you like. I'm thrilled to have you on the program to talk about your Washington. I believe you call them the wizards. All of a sudden Joe House, they're good. And I don't know, there's a certain guy, John Wall, who hasn't been around for this five-game winning streak.

Your boy, Bill Simmons, tweeted out just a pair of eyeball emojis after they won their fifth game in a row with that wall. A little nervous about them being better with Adam? Well, look, before we get going, I have two questions for you. Tell me. And by the way, I don't call them the Wizards because I've never subscribed to the terrible process that led to the change of name away from bullets.

I don't mind changing the name away from bullets, but it was a terrible era here in Washington, and the Wizards are never something that I would embrace or adopt. I call them the almost bullets most of the time, but I will accept Wizards every once in a while. Here are my questions for you, John Gonzalez. Right, I'm ready. My boy, Wangan.

My very first question is, are you still drunk? It's a combination of that and Robitussin, because I picked up some sort of hyperflu while I was there, and I'm just coughing all over. I think that this is Bill Simmons's microphone. I'm doing that as my... I brought him back a sickness. Just like one more present from Philadelphia for Simmons.

Yeah, right. That's unbelievable. Well, there's nothing wrong with the Tussin. I'm happy to hear that's part of the mix. Yeah, it's a part robo trip, part booze bag. But yeah, I'm out of sorts. Well, on the subject of the National Basketball Association and my hometown team, my question to you is, are you going to come on here today and slander John Wall? Are you, I just want to prepare myself. I want to know whether or not, you know, you have jumped onto the bandwagon with this popular internet meme of the Wizards are better without Wall and Wall's contract is all should the Wizards be thinking about trading him already? Like all that's silly internet nonsense. Are you prepared to come on here today and slander

John Wall in that manner? My boy, Wong-Gon. Look, so I really like John Wall as a player. I'm not as anti-John Wall contractist say like our boy KOC is. He threw some slander on yesterday's podcast with Chris Vernon. I mean, KOC is a maniac. I'll have to listen to that and I'll find my opportunity to get with him. KOC is long-harbored a disbelief when it comes to the transcendence of John Wall. We had a lively conversation over the summer around the relative attributes and qualities of Kyrie Irving versus John Wall. And, you know, I think we agreed to disagree at the end of the day. But I know he's a long time in the closet wall hater. We all know that about KOC. I don't even think so in the closet. Pretty out. Now he's out. Now he's out. Pretty out about it.

the contract, he's making $18 million this year. He's got one more year left next year at 19.1, which is fine by current NBA standards. The problem is that you're after that when he's going to get a supermax, and then all of a sudden you have to ask yourself, like, with his age, whether or not John Wall is worth it. I really like John Wall. He's one of the best point guards in the NBA.

I just think it's interesting that all of a sudden, like, they take them out, and they look like they're playing well, they look like they're playing well together. They look happy. They didn't look happy earlier. Do they not like him? I don't think they like him. I have a lot of things. to say about the current state of the almost bullets and all the factors that may be sort of driving

what we've observed over the last five games. So let me make a very quick observation on the contract point, which is this. Let's worry about the contract two years from now. Now's not the time to be looking at, you know, how much he's making relative to his peers and what, you know, whether his health will sustain and his durability and where he will be two, let's see two years from now where the franchise is, what he's done in terms of his own contribution to mission, and how close the franchise is to its goal of being a repeat Eastern Conference finals, attendee, participant, and maybe even cracking through and jumping through to an actual finals appearance. Let's just let the next handful of years play out. We don't have to assess

or a judge whether or not John Wall's contract is onerous now, because it's not onerous right now. It might be an onerous two or three years from now. It might be market two or three years from now. We don't know how the collective bargaining agreement is going to change in the next iteration. And we don't know how the cap's going to move. So let's chill. I mean, it's okay to have some thoughts and think about it. Everybody gets excited because Blake Griffin just got traded. And, you know, the clippers cut bait. That's not the position that the almost bullets are in. But let's talk about where we are right now. That was amazing. That was amazing. So the state of the almost bullets.

All right. So let's get into that. During that monologue, I heard, I think I heard you say. And it was a, you're on the right podcast. This is called the He-check podcast. That was a hell of a heat check. But I think during that monologue, you mentioned possibly the Wizards making it to the conference finals.

And I would like, tell me about this. Because right now, there's seven and a half games back on the Celtics. I think we could all agree that they haven't been as good as the Celtics. They haven't been as good as the Raptors. They're in that Cavs, Wizards, Bucks tier. Are you feeling optimistic? But Wongon. that is a perfectly salient observation you just made.

They have indeed not been as good as either of those two teams, but I will tell you here and now, without hesitation or reservation, that they are as good as either one of those teams that are currently ahead of them in the standings. There was not a team in the East that I fear Juan Gonzalez. Well, I don't think you should fear them. I'm looking at their net ratings, right?

And like the Raptors and Celtics, obviously, they're three and four. in the NBA and net rating. The Wizards are eight. They're pretty good. They're a good team. But I just wonder, like, this chemistry issue, I'm going to keep harping on this

because I know it, like, makes your eyeball twitch. Like, this chemistry issue with John Wall, like, I wonder, would they be, like, think about the hall that they could get back for John Wall. I saw Isaac Lee, our producer, emailed you to ask you to come on the show, and you said, you would come on the show

because you love John Wall and you want to defend him, and there's no way you would trade him unless it was for Kauai, which I loved. That was funny. Everybody got a good chance. chuckle, right? I loved it. There's got to be other people. I mean, you could get a nice

haul for John Wall, I think, and maybe not Kauai, but you could get a nice hall. What if, you know, all of a sudden you're adding pieces around Brad Beale, who is suddenly more, this is how bad it's gotten for you. Brad Beale is suddenly more durable than John Wall. No, no, no, no. This is ludicrous. That's an asinine thing to say. I gave you credit for a salient observation, and now we're in Kuku land. Let's start from the beginning. And here's the thing that I resent more than anything, which is that in terms of a team, a franchise, managing its fans' expectations, my franchise, the Almost Bullets, routinely missed the opportunity to prepare us and season us properly, because we, as sensible basketball fans, ended last season feeling

fairly buoyant about how the team performed, about the young pieces that we have in place, about honestly the improvement in personnel on the bench, and there was nowhere to go but up after last year's extracurable conflagration. That was so grotesque that I'm sure I don't think there are three players no longer than the NBA that populated the almost bullets bench last year. Yeah, it was ugly. But my complaint about the management of expectations comes down to this, they knew, they had to know coming into the season that Johnny Wall was not 100%. And our own eyeballs, as almost Bullitts fans, could observe. We had Fat John Wall.

We had Fat John Wall in October. Chunky. He was, let's not call him fat. Whatever you want to call him. I mean. Slightly overweight for him. And that is not all that uncommon. Now, he gets credit because he goes away, spends a lot of time in Los Angeles, getting

ready for each season. And he does, he has come back with a. different skill, like he will work on a singular skill, but it is pretty apparent year over year that he uses the first month of the season to kind of get himself in basketball shape, in regular season's shape. He does not show up the way that DeMard Rosen did two years ago, like having run with a tire on his back up a 50-foot sand hill. That ain't Johnny Wall's thing in the summer. It's hard to do. Yeah, right. You could do it. I could see you hustling up a hill. Well, if there was a cheeseburger at the top and I was going to hit my,

beautiful Callaway Rogue Driver 400 yards. Yes, of course. That's nice synergy on your pods, by the way. You like that. I did. I did. I like to tell you time together. We get it all in there. You know what titillates me, John. I do. I have a sense of what gets you going. I love how much you love the Wizards. That clearly is true. You might be the only person who pays this much attention to the Wizards outside of like maybe Andrew Sharp. But so. Sharp is, of course. Sharp is my boy. It's you and Sharp and Ernie Grunfeld, who not a great history here. So like you said, you have some ideas about what they should do to add. So who should they add? Here's what I want. I want a shooter. I'm pissed that Meritich already went somewhere because I thought he would have been a terrific

almost bullet. Now I have my sights set on two players. All right, heavy. Danny Green, who I don't know. I have no idea whether or not he's available. I just know that he's an unrestricted free agent next season. So maybe there's a there's a conversation to be had with the Spurs. And the other guy who's a known commodity that everybody loves and the price is probably higher than what the almost bullets can offer is Lou, sweet Lou Williams. I mean, I want Sweet Lou in the run that he's on right now. I want that. House, I really like you. I was very prepared to make fun of you for Danny Green giving up your first round pick and like hoping for the best. The Lou Williams thing really turned it around. You saved yourself there at the very end. It was an amazing save. And

I think you're right. Lou Williams would be great for them. But the thing is, Lou Williams would be great for a lot of people. They're going to get a lot of nice offers for him. All right. I got to let you go. Before I do, though, real, real quick. Who did you root for on Sunday? Because I know you're a Washington football fan. So that's kind of a conundrum for you, because you got the Pats and you got the Eagles. Tell me the truth. You know who I rooted for, Wangan? My wallet. I root for my wallet. How'd you do? I won. And the reason I won is because I made a rational decision. I was able to divorce my DNA, which is, you know, anti- Eagles, anti-Giants, anti-Cowboys. In order of vehemence, it's cowboys, it's cowboys, Giants Eagles are the team that I feel the least ranker. Yes, exactly, the least ranker. Beautiful

use of rancor there. Thank you. I used words for a living. So I wasn't, it didn't, you know, it wasn't impossible for me to look at the team in green and hope for right outcomes. And I really liked the Eagles in that underdog position. I mean, the dog masks, the whole thing. They were nobody believed in them. So I was happy with the outcome. My wallet was happy with the outcome. And I'm happy for you. And really, I'm happy for the heat check pod because not only do we do a podcast today, but in this particular segment, it was basically like House's Washington therapy session. So it worked out great for everybody.

Thank you for putting me on the pillow, Wong-Gone. All right, my man. That's Joe House. Make sure you listen to him. House of Carbs. He's got Shaq House. He's everywhere. He's very famous.

He's very talented. House. Thank you so much. Love you, boys. Later, buddy. All right. We're almost done, Isaac. Yes, we are.

We've got one more. We're going to bring in KOC. And we're going to bring in. Jason and we're going to talk about previous trade deadlines and the upcoming one. That's next. All right, we're back with two of my favorites from the ringer. Jason Concepcion, Kevin O'Connor. We're going to talk about the trade deadline.

Before we do that, we had Kevin O'Connor on the heat check pod last week. He was very excited about the Eagles, had renounced his Patriots fandom. He really did. He was like, I hate them. I left Boston. I'm never going back. I have turned my back on Tom Brady, he said. Lise, lies.

raised one hand up in the air. And on top of that, he's wearing a trust-the-process t-shirt, which is wonderful synergy. Kevin O'Connor, I got you something from the Super Bowl. I brought it back. It's Nick Foles's out. It's Nick Foles out. Isaac.

You know what? You're never going to get tired of hearing it. Yeah, it's okay. And it'll be playing in perpetuity for the next year. So congratulations on that. It doesn't bother me. They get five. Congratulations to you. They get five.

Real quick before we do the trade deadline. So we all did the, the 360 video for the ringer, which was super, super fun. One of my absolute favorite parts was Kevin O'Connor's halftime hostage video

where he was like, I really hope they get it together and make adjustments. I don't know where he is right now. It's like blink twice if you're okay. There's no context within the video. The full video was, hey,

you know, it's my dad's birthday. I'm having fun, you know? It did not look like that. I can encourage everybody to go back. incredible. I'm not actually mad performance right now. I'm really not. So anyway, the Eagles won.

I'm glad you got to feel that feeling, John. He's very excited about it. As is, as is Jason. I am. But I wanted to talk to you guys about trade stuff. So I wrote this piece for the ringer.com today, ranking the trade deadlines. We're just going to do the top three. Because you guys have like a, you took a little on bridge with the ordering. No, no, not really. Just like slight, slight. I've got the 2017 trade.

deadline is number three on my list, the 2015 trade deadline, which was absolutely bananas in terms of like the sheer volume at number two on my list. And at number one on my list, it was the mellow trade, which Jason, the mellow trade. I mean, like, tell me, like, are you against the mellow trade deadline of the last 10 years? Am I against it? Yeah, I'm against it because it. It ruined everything. It didn't ruin. Here's the thing about the NICs that I'll never understand. Like the rationale for making that trade is how he was going to go Brooklyn. Let's call the guy's bluff. Let's see it.

Yeah. Let's see it. The Knicks' team pre the Melo trade was really forgotten. Gallo when he was healthy and really kind of fun. Wilson Chandler, Ray Felton the first time. Timothy Mosgoff when he was not completely washed and was like a young frisky center from Moscow. They were fresh over from Moscow. They were a really fun team, you know, like, and it was, it ended something there.

And also just the idea that you would spend enormous amounts of money to pay Mike Dantone to install a free-flowing egalitarian system over multiple seasons. Right. And then trade for Carmelo, which is the antithesis of that. Pound the ball. Ball goes in, ball doesn't come out. Gotta love the Knicks. But at the same time, like, like that deadline, so in retrospect, all of the things,

All the things that you're saying in retrospect are right. But it was exciting to have Mello go to the next, right? Like that in a vacuum without the system component, without all the ripple effects of all the players that they unloaded. Like I remember going, oh, like, NBA narrative-wise, this is fun. Yeah, I think from a narrative perspective, it was like, oh, it's like, this is crazy. It's actually happening. It's actually being moved after rumors happening for so long.

But then, like, the basketball analyst in you was like, wait a minute. Why didn't they just wait? Right. And that's the way I came away from that deadline. But it wasn't just Mello either. Darren Williams being traded. Two big-time players at the time going to New York. The Darren Williams trade to New York was a big one. It would have been the biggest one if not for Mello.

Here's the other one that I threw in and the reason why it ended up getting pushed over the top was the Clippers trade. The Clippers, holy shit, the Clippers, the Clippers in that same trade deadline unloaded Baron Davis and their 2011 first round pick to clear cap space. Unreal. And bring in Jamario Moon. and Mo Williams. Jamario Moon. Jamarouin,

who I've forgotten. I want to apologize. I want to apologize to Jamario. He's a big fan of the Heat Check podcast. We're laughing with you, Jamario, not at you. But the reason why we're laughing

is because the 2011 first round pick that they unloaded to the Cavaliers ended up being Kyrie. Kyrie! So if they hadn't done that, they wouldn't have to trade for CP. All of a sudden, you've got Kyrie and Blake. Lob City looks completely different.

Completely different. And then the clippers still have all their pick allotments. It's a totally different deal. Like, what would that Clippers team have looked like? Amazing. I just want to say one thing about Darren Williams, who I love. And is obviously the winner of the who is the best point guard of the last 10 years debate between him and CP3. Runaway winner. Right at the top. You're just like driving a dagger into Isaac's heart.

I just wanted to say that he's got my favorite NBA hair of the last, I don't even know how long. Darren Williams' hair is like the seaweed on a rock as the tide goes out. That's it. That's all I wanted to say. That's a beautiful picture that you've painted for all of our listeners. And I think also another reason why 2011 is the number one trade. Trade deadline. You guys had 2015 because it was bananas.

Yeah, because it was like, oh, it's going to be quiet. It was not quiet. Everything came almost after the deadline. Like, you thought it was almost quiet then. Boom, boom, boom. All point cards got traded. So I don't know where. you guys were for that one. You were Grantland. You were in Boston, right? I was working in Philadelphia

at NBC Sports Philadelphia and had thought that it was going to be a very quiet trade. And then, remember it was like almost like past three o'clock when the detail started trickling through? And Sam Hinky basically ruined my life that day, trying to track down everything that had happened. Before we get to the big ones, he unloaded Michael Carter Williams. Rookie of the year. The rookie of the year. Charles Barkley. Stunk freaked the fuck out about it. He lost it. Michael Carter Williams is selling

screen printed t-shirts on Venice Beach right now. What is he doing? He's thinking wistfully about the two-three zone. It was a great trade for the Sixers. Not such a great trade for the bucks. On a day where the Suns made a lot of bad trades, that was one of the two terrible trades the Suns made. For sure.

And you know, with Michael Carter Williams, I understand why a lot of people thought that trade stunk. But with Carter Williams, he was probably one of the worst rookie of the years we've had. Yeah. The side of Malcolm Brogden. Yeah. I mean, Burgdon was pretty good.

Bucks corner the market on quasi-Ruckies of the year. You know, the Sons really did drop the ball that deadline. But with the situation that they had, I understand that the risk that they took. But clearly, I mean, Isaiah Thomas turned into a killer. Yep. Brandon Knight, stunk. He still hasn't really done anything with that team. Drogich, you know, turned into granted injuries, got him into the All-Star game.

He's had a lot of success with them. I wonder what feel. Phoenix could have done differently that deadline to set themselves up for a better future. I wonder if there are other options on the table that we don't know about that might have positioned themselves better than they are now. The Sons, there were so many weird things that the Sons did in that deadline. So not only did they move Isaiah Thomas, who, like, let's not forget that that trade, like, that group that they put together, like, so they had Isaiah and Bledsoe and Drogic.

And then they were like, that's not going to work. So they're going to unplug two. okay, fine. I don't think any of us realized that Isaiah Thomas because he hadn't been with the Kings and he wasn't with the sons.

But then they went and compounded their mistake by moving a bunch of other pieces around, including Scalabessier and Papa Giannas, to get Chris, they gave up Bogdanovich who might be the best player

in that whole deal. Yeah. Like they screwed it up like 12 different ways. How are the sun still a franchise? It's especially tough for me to take because there are like 400% more sons and ex-sons point guards involved in that deal than the Knicks have had in like 10 years.

You could have gotten like 1 to 12 point guards. Can I get one point guard? Do you want Isaiah Thomas now? No, well, it's a little late on Isaiah Thomas. But it's just wild. I have not watched a point guard as good as any of these guys like in a long time. I need a quick non-trade deadline aside then.

Where are we on Frankie Smokes? I think he's going to be good. He's just not ready now. He's like three years away, but you can see it in flashes and fits and starts. Defensively. He's a natural. He's already one of the better defensive point guards in the league.

Yes. Right? And he's only a teenager. What do you be scoring wise, though, he looks very hesitant. Like, every time I see him, like, not passing or not defending, he looks like. He's been more aggressive lately. I think, I think that's okay, though. I think, I know what you want Frankie Nicotine to turn into is a top end defensive point guard

who can defend bigger guys as well and who also is a good pick and roll passer, a good pick and roll decision maker and who can hit spot-up threes and, you know, occasionally off the dribble not like your go-to guy, but that's the way you're going to have to build your roster with him. That's okay. Like, you don't need your point guard to be, you know, a 25 point per game score. Which is fine, but what are they doing with Jared Jack and Trey Burke? Like, I don't explain that to me.

It's the eternal tension between Tank and win now that the Knicks are going through. Which is why they're always the Knicks. Yeah, they obviously feel, they feel some pressure to win, obviously, for some unknown reason. and yeah who does when they could be simply developing their young guys like with a lot of minutes so yeah they're trying to win

and it's absolutely perplexing you know what I heard I heard that they have or at least they've inquired about Malik Monk with Charlotte I don't know I don't hate it I gave a little shoulder show I don't know what the price would be

I don't know even how available he is but I think they're out of Monk already yeah I mean I Monk isn't really in the best situation if they're making moves though like pre-deadlong as we're barreling towards it. If they're making moves where maybe Batum gets unplugged

or they're moving camera or somebody, right? Like doesn't that free up minutes for Monk? Like, why move him already? He hasn't even played hard. Maybe you've soured once you got him in. Kind of a red flag when you draft a guy and all he can talk about is how he

wanted to go to the Knicks. Yeah, well, I mean, like, right, right, there's the red flag for a lot of reasons. He would be an amazing Nick because still, and I've mentioned this like a thousand times on the ringer, but one of my favorite moments of the entire season was where he tried to do

a self-ally-oop off the glass and Aaron Gordon's very tough phenomenal. Monk would be a great fit alongside of Frankie Nicotine too, right? He's your chucker against your top end of the point guard. I mean, as a young core, I don't hate that at all.

And again, it's just with the Knicks, the question is always development. Can they develop these guys? One more quick mention about the 2015 trade deadline that I really liked. The Reggie Jackson trade, where he left, he left okayc they hated him in okayc he's like i'm going to get out of here he goes to detroit he

gets a new contract and stan van gundt can't open his mouth without shitting on reggie jackson like it's he went from like teammates hating him to his own coach it's phenomenal um i also like uh let's see what were you talking about the two i had i always like were you talking about 2015 the i like the drag each brother's trade as if you had to pick one of these from out of them just because like When do you ever see brothers from Europe get traded? Goron and Zoron. Yeah, it's like Tomax and Zaymont from G.I. Joe. That is a phenomenal reference.

Yes, and they felt each other's pain. I love that cartoon. For me, the one takeaway from that deadline is the Isaiah Thomas trade going to Boston. And the reason why is for that deal, like, I predicted that like a week before it happened with like no sources on that. Just because you connect the dots sometimes. Sure. Boston called Isaiah Thomas on July 1 the summer before. and they just didn't get the opportunity to sign him.

So I think that's something to keep in mind for this deadline and deadlines moving forward where it's like when you hear rumors about interest in free agency, keep that in mind any time like a trade deadline comes up. Because if that guy seems like maybe he's in a situation where he could be available, just look back at the teams that had interested him in free agency, and you might find who actually might be going for him at the deadline. I can't wait to find out what Dealer Danny does this year. Before we get to Thursday,

they won our number three deadline of the last 10 years was 2017. It was last year. Buggy finally moved. At first I wasn't on board with the Abaca move. I was like, I don't get it. It makes the Raptors more Raptors like, but we've seen this year the Raptors have been much better.

The Nerlands trade made me very, very angry at the time. Fake first. Because it was a fake first. I still contend that Nerlands is a good player. However, whether or not Nerlands is a good player or not, we still got halftime hot dog Nerlins out of it.

I love half-druck. That makes it all worthwhile. Just having to explain, like, you know, I was practicing really hard and, you know, my energy was low. I needed to bring my energy up. I decided to get a hot-dye. Not playing. He just wanders in.

So that's something you've probably noticed from covering games. Like, sometimes, like, the pre-game buffet for the players is not up to snuff or there's not enough of what they want. So invariably, like, you'll be in the media room eating. And you'll see a player walk in. Like, last year for the Clippers in Utah, uh, Rudy. go bare after he hurt himself. Sure.

He was still hungry, I guess. Yeah. So he limped into the Los Angeles media room and was like eating tortillas and fajitas with us at our table. This is how NBA players gain weight over the course of the season. He was hungry. Yeah, they're done with the games and they're hungry and they have full dinners at 10 p.m. I don't begrudge them a halftime hotline. So that was a great one.

That was a great one. And then, of course, we had buggy. The boogie trade was incredible because obviously at the tail end of all. Star Weekend this thing came down. That was taking place in New Orleans. So the joke was like, don't even just stay here. Like, just get a hotel, stay in your hotel, and don't leave. Which locker do you want? It was, it was, that was truly wild. It really was. When we found out about that, me and a couple other people from the ring, including Micah Peters, who is a Pelicans fan, we're walking down the street in New Orleans.

I get a woge bomb on my phone. And I'm like, hey, Micah, look at this. Show to my phone. he's like, he just flipped out. And we were just screaming down the street. Boogie to the Pelicans. Bittersweet now, of course. It is. And that's what I'm saying.

It's kind of sad. Ripple, part of this column was, you know, like how many big trades happened. Part of it was entertainment value, which is the Nerlin's halftime hot dog thing. And the other thing was impact.

So now, like you and I talked about this KSC last week where we went like, okay, it made sense for sure for the Pelicans to do that. And now I think it makes more sense for to just double down on it because what do you do? Like you already invested all these assets in getting to Marcus Cousins.

It sucks though because, as KOSC pointed out, he's a giant dude coming off an Achilles, which is too, like you don't want to hear that. And you're going to have to give him a gigantic contract, but I don't know how you don't. The list of guys who have come back in any shape or form to be similar to what they were is extremely, extremely short. And also, listen, I don't doubt DeMarcus's dedication. and ability to come back, uh,

it just takes a long, long time. Like it takes years to come back to be a contributing player, anything like you were. And the way his game is predicated so much on strength and this kind of like, explosiveness, you know, like can he turn himself into like a bigger Zbo?

Sure. Maybe he could do that. But it just feels like this is, we're going to see a much different to Mark his cousins after this. You're right that, you know, it's, they probably should double down.

And that's what they did, of getting merit hitch. They're trying to maintain their playoff position. They're trying to keep their spot there and maintain a winning team. And then you hope boogie comes back and he's 80% of what he was. That'd be good. If he's 90% plus or 100% what a gift, right? Then you're in a good position.

But if he's not, if he's 60%, if he's 70%, you're screwed either way, though. You're screwed for sure if you don't. So you have to try, I think. Yeah, I agree. One more quick just mention about like from the entertainment perspective. Like, I like these, like, weird trades that make me laugh. It made me laugh at the time. I didn't get it. In retrospect, it's really goddamn funny. The Bulls, when they traded

Taj Gibson and Doug McDermott, who were probably the two best players in that trade, for Cameron Payne, who has since been unseated by Chris Dunn. Chris Dunn is good, but, like, and on top of that, the Thunder got a second round pick. Like, the Bulls were like, sure, you can also have this. Like, that is one of the head scratchers of that year. Campaign's major impact on the NBA is, or was his handshakes. Those pregame handshakes, yeah. That's it. That's it. That's it. We really couldn't come up with anything. And then Taj Gibson right now is probably one of the best defensive big man in the NBA for the Timberwolves.

I have always loved Tosh. I think he's way underrated. He's a really good. He's a guy who is not going to hurt you. He's just going to help you in various areas. And he's perfect. He's perfect for Tibbs and always has been. Okay. So we've got the deadline coming up. We love the deadline. We're going to have a lot of content here on the ringer. What are we excited about? What do we want to see? I think it's going to be quiet overall. I do. I mean, maybe one domino falls. If DJ gets traded, then more stuff happens.

But I think overall it's going to be kind of a, you know. Lou Williams? Yeah, maybe. Do we think Lou goes or do we think the clippers hold on and try to, like, rebuild on the fly? I think there's probably more interest in Lou Williams than the others than be Andre Jordan. For sure. I think so, too. I was just talking about this with House.

You can go through the list of T. First, he's playing out of his head. Yeah. And he's on an expiring. So, you know, like, who cares? You can figure it out. Right.

Exactly. So if you need to add shooting, go get Lou Williams. I mean, if you're a contending team, you could say that the calves could use him. The wizards could use him. Well, the calves, defensive-wise,

they wouldn't, that wouldn't help him. But a lot of teams. There's nowhere to go, but nowhere to go enough. Right. He and Isaiah could figure it out together. Imagine a back quote with Isaiah Thomas,

Lou Williams, Derek Rose. Jose Calderone is out there getting minutes, guys. I mean, What are we talking about? I think O'KCs could be an active team. I've heard that.

I've heard they've been connected to Marco Bellanelli, Avery Bradley, Marcus Smart, like if Joe Johnson gets bought out, a handful of guys, they're all like guards and wings. I don't think they haven't nearly enough to try to get Bradley.

Yeah. I don't think they have enough to get smart either, but maybe they're a team that tries to add another wing. Somebody to fill Roberson's minutes. What about, we also hear a lot of stuff about Tyreek Evans, which had a report saying that, in Denver and Philly are the main ones

and that Miami might be in the mix now. I, like, Tyreek Evans, Philly dude. We always had like really high expectations for him. I watched him when I was in high school. He, it's, how long's it been? He's a long time. And all of a sudden, like, after all those injuries and all those years of him not doing anything,

Tyreek suddenly is like a hot commodity in the league. I think it's amazing. And it's also just, it's a great object lesson and you can't really ever give up on a guy. I never thought I'd see anything like this from him Like just the all around game You know the passing the playmaking It's it's been great wild

He's been great He had like a procedure done Before the season I guess that he thinks you know Helped him you know get back to this level Like kind of you know lessen his injuries He's been a lot healthier this season right But I also wonder how much of this is like

It's a contract year You know and he's putting everything Contract year is the greatest steroids The greatest But you know what? But you know what? if it is, it doesn't matter. Because if you're a team trading for him,

all you care about is this season. So what do we think he costs? Would you give it up if you're the Celtics? Like, would you give up a first for him? Your own first round pick? Yeah. Back end of the first. It's like a nothing first rounder if you're the Celtics.

I mean, first round picks are always valuable, though. I'd feel a lot more comfortable with an early mid-second round pick. I mean, there's no bird rights. That's not going to do that. They won't get it done. But you could get that from Philly probably. But what if nobody's giving a first-round pick?

All right. So would you give it if you're Philly? It's going to be a late first round pick. A late first. No, I don't think I would. I'd play hardball here and try to just get a second. Throw on a bunch of protection. I mean, you're talking about a near 29-year-old guard slash wing who has not been that great for seven seasons and who you probably won't retain past these next couple months. I think if I'm the Sixers, I definitely wouldn't give it first.

If I'm a team that has legitimate, you know, contending potential, like the Celtics, you know. It would have to be a. If the Sixers did it, Sixers fans would lose their shit. Oklahoma City. They would lose their shit. If I'm Boston, I do it. If I'm the Sixers, I don't. Would you do if you're Cleveland?

Like, would you give your own first if you're Cleveland? Cleveland's got to do something? This is actually a fascinating discussion aside from whether they get involved with Tyreek Evans. What does Cleveland do? Because they're in between several rocks and several hard places. You know, like, does LeBron stay? Does he not stay? Do you leverage your future post-Lebron in order to get put together a team that maybe would win now?

And are there even any moves out there? There aren't lateral moves. Yeah. I don't think there are. Because if you're Cleveland's the type of thing where if you give up, let's say your pick ends up like 24, 25. Like that's not a great first by any means. No. You know, and let's say you still don't win the finals anyways.

Let's say you don't even make the finals, right? And LeBron leaves and you end up like the seventh pick from the Nets, you might wish that you, you had that 24th pick to trade up a spot or two, possibly. You might wish that you had that to get an extra guy in the late first that you think is actually a lottery level talent. First are valuable, man. Because everybody has, you know, different rankings. Like you said, several rocks, several hard places.

If you're Cleveland, Danny wrote about this already last week, 2010 all over again. Screw it either way. Like, what do you do? I think you have to try because if you don't, you're screwed anyway. I feel like unless you get some kind of indication that he'd stay, you have to assume that he's leaving and you have to prepare for the future. I think the Miami late entrance for Tyreek is very interesting. It is quite interesting.

Like all of a sudden, like that in the East, who knows what's happening in the East? Anything could happen in the East and Miami is in that middle of the pack. Why not? I'll tell you what, at like at 259 p.m. if I'm Boston, I'd give it the first. You would? I would. Because I think Tyreek Evans is. I think that would be the best fit. Type a guy who comes off your bench who can, you know, play-making.

for you a little bit who can handle the ball can hit spot up threes in space the floor who even though he's on a great defender at least has a little bit of versatility I mean that you have to put one of the Marcus's in that I mean I think what they're trying to do is flip Marcus Smart for Tyree for another first so it's a type

of thing where right right get your pick back maybe they get a better first you know for Marcus Smart and then they trade their worst first or like Danny you know he's always on the move he's fantastic we're super excited about the trade deadline we're gonna have a lot of content this week on The Ringer. We're going to have plenty of podcasts. We're going to do some video

stuff. We'll probably have some group posts that we'll throw out there. So check out the Ringer all week. Also, you've got NBA desktop with Jason Concepcion, which is taking the internet by storm. It's amazing. He's got binge mode. He's everywhere. He does everything all the time. Jason doesn't sleep. Kevin also does not sleep. Check out all of KOC's content. Thanks to everybody who was on the show today. Shea Charks, House, our producer, Isaac Lee. We will be back on the heat check podcast, per usual on Mondays next week. Be sure to check us out. Thanks for listening to everybody.

Bye.