The Ringer NBA Show - Countdown to the Playoffs, LeBron’s Future, and Not Predicting the Finals | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 245)

Episode Date: April 10, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor preview the battle between the Minnesota Timberwolves and Denver Nuggets for the 8-seed in the Western Conference (2:03) and evaluate the potential matchups in the Eastern Conference (10:35). Then, they discuss how the playoffs will impact LeBron James’s looming free agency (31:59), debate whether the inevitability of superteams contending for the championship is bad for the sport (42:32), and react to the raised price for ownership of the Memphis Grizzlies (47:06). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's Ringer MBA show brought you by Google Assistant with the Google Assistant. You can complete over a million actions on your phone in your car and around the house. For example, hey Google, add chips and salsa to my shopping list. Okay, I've added chips and salsa to your shopping list. Download the Google Assistant today. Welcome to The Ringer MBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

aka Kevin O'Brien O'Concert, aka Kevin O Instagram model. Kevin! What up, Chris? This week's crazy! I'm loving the NBA. It is crazy. And what really got it off to a crazy start was you flossing on the top of L.A. hotels, I suppose. Kevin Obama jacket?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me, Pat Maldownie and Keith, we just recorded a video. That's all. And Pat, to test out the angles, took some photos. Well, I'm going to tell you this, it is. We are a few steps away from you hocking, like, T-Mobile. teeth whitening and, you know, tea that makes you crap your pants and all the stuff the models all promote on Instagram.

You're one step away from getting those calls. Drink this tea. Hashtag ad. Hashtag sponsored. Take this teeth whitening thing, whatever it is. That's all teeth whitening and tea, right? Would you do that? Chris, would you, like, advertise something that you don't feel super passionate about?

I have to advertise things that I don't feel super passionate about. On social media, like, you know, those quote-unquote influencers. Would you ever do that? How much? Yeah, how much we're talking? I think that's honestly the fair response. Listen, I'll tell you I drink any manner of tea. Because there's always a number.

There's always a point where it's like, yeah, I'll do it. Listen, I mean, cut the check. Yeah. All right, let's talk about what took place last night, which is, I mean, it was rather unbelievable. We have the Nuggets and the Trailblazers in this crazy game. I think if you would have suspected, we're probably playing in the 110s or 120s

when you're talking about a Nuggets versus a Blazers game, probably thinking they're going to get up and down the court. And instead, it was like 90s Pistons versus Pacers, where neither team even got to 90 points. That was probably the biggest of the night because the Nuggets, especially when they're down at halftime in that game,

that is a total backs against the wall proposition. And with their backs against a wall, Yokic ends up with 15 points, 20 rebounds, 11 assist, and Nerkich, you had like this old school big war, right? With Nerkich getting 20 points and 19 rebounds, two guys that used to be teammates and friends, for sure. But anyways, the nuggets, you know, they have needed to win every single night, and they have won every single night for the last week, week and a half. And so we now set up this scenario where we're going to come down to the very final game between the Nuggets and the Timberwolves.

They have won, yeah, it's six in a row now, and eight of their last 10 have the Nuggets. So by virtue of, you know, the Clippers have dropped out of it since we last spoke. By virtue of the Nuggets winning as much as they have, it's now one playoff spot open, right? And it's either going to be Minnesota or Denver. And really, is there a team that you'd rather face than one that the leading shot taker oftentimes is Andrew Wiggins if you're Denver? Like, they're rolling, dude. Last night when Mike Malone got that technical in the third quarter, that felt like that's kind of when the game changed. It's hard to say if a coach getting a technical swung the game.

But Denver's intensity really did pick up after that. I think they were down nine or ten somewhere in the middle of the third quarter. And they were terrific after that. Yokic did all the little things. like he always does, passing. His rebounding was outstanding. Denver isn't going to be a team that's necessarily going to win a first round series

depending on the matchup, but man, they're fun. They're certainly taking steps forward. All their younger guys are stepping up. It's going to be interesting to see what happens on Wednesday night against Minnesota. Do you think, and maybe this is speaking out of line, but we've joked throughout the season

because at the beginning of the season, you were very critical of Tibbs running these guys into the ground. which we know he does. Clearly, their season would have been radically different had Jimmy Butler never gotten hurt. For sure. But that being said, do you think there is any chance his job is on the line Wednesday night, that if they don't make the playoffs this year, that he may not be able to retain his position at Minnesota? Or do you look at it and say, hey, they probably would have had or certainly could have had home court advantage if Jimmy Butler never gets hurt,

Which do you think? Well, I mean, they only hired him two years ago in 2016, right? It would be very surprising if they were to let go of him after two years when they gave him so much power in the organization. Maybe you start thinking about, how can we do this a little bit differently? Should we, you know, take away his GMing responsibility so we can focus exclusively on coaching? Maybe that's something you do if you're on our ship. And maybe that helps. But maybe not.

Maybe you just give it another year because, look, this team still has talent. It's not like he hasn't made some good personnel decisions. I still really like Justin Patton. I like the Marcus George's Hunt pickup. I like Anthony Brown on a two-way contract. These are good moves, in my opinion. It's just he doesn't use these guys or give them an opportunity. That's what's so frustrating.

Given Andrew Wiggins the money, I don't know what other choice you necessarily had. Getting Todd Gibson, he's been awesome all year. It's not like Tibbs, the exec, hasn't done some good things, right? So I have a, it's an interesting spot for them because, yeah, his coaching is not great. And if they missed the playoffs, it's like, yeah, because Jimmy Butler was out for a month. That's the reason why. Baller's their best player, one of the best two-way players, if not the best two-way player in basketball this season since Kauai's been out. Yeah.

Would you fire him, Chris? We talked about this. I would make him have a boss. It's fair. That's fair. That's what I would do. What you are seeing now is a changing landscape, because. Because, you know, Stan Van Gundy, right, it's going to change.

I think we might be seeing the end of the dual role where we have to get the guy, because these old school guys, what they want to say, I'll do your job, but I want a boatload of money and I don't want a boss. And I think that the best organizations have a boss, I do, and that they work hand in hand, and that there is going, that we are now towards the end of days for the one with, you know, total power at these organizations. Because there has to be somebody to say, hey, you know, we need to think about this and we need to think about this personnel-wise and we need to be able to develop our young guys.

And maybe we need to start thinking about playing a little bit differently in this new age. You know, obviously, I watched them last night because they played against the Grizzlies and they ended up running off on the Grizzlies in the second half. But as I'm watching that first half, I'm thinking of myself, God, I mean, your whole seasons on the friggin' line? and this is how you're playing, and they really cannot shoot. I mean, really. Like, there's not anybody that you're terrified to leave open.

Like, Towns is honestly the one guy that when he's wide open, I think to myself, well, that's a mistake. The rest of the guys, Wiggins, Teague, even Jamal when he comes off the bench. Like, they, you know, they've got more guys that shoot it from long distance, but like there's nobody that I really fear. Usually these teams have a guy that's like a dead eye. And obviously that's not even Butler's game. And so it is a, it's more of an old school team for sure, which might be able to cause real problems. You know what I mean? Butler

looks healthy to me. And so they might be able to cause some problems for somebody like the rockets. I think that they are way more dangerous to the rockets than the nuggets are, don't you? Yeah, I would agree with that. And, you know, big reason why is because If you take those two rosters, probably Jimmy Butler and Carl Towns are the best player on any of the teams in terms of their peaks, their peak ability. If Carl Towns is really, really engaged on defense, I mean, he's a spectacular offensive player. I just can't get over the fact that he only shoots as much as he does. 14 times per game the season. He should be getting like 18, 19 shots.

He is an outstanding offensive player. He's unbelievable. Jimmy Butler, obviously, he does it all. And plus with Minnesota, in the past, Carl Towns has been one of the guys that's given Draymond Green trouble. He's one of the guys that makes Draymond look small. It's been weird watching those matches, because Draymond is so tremendous.

But even Towns, when he was a rookie, he still gave him a hard time. So I wonder if Minnesota happened to get matched up against Gold State, they'd be a tough out for the Warriors. And granted, Golden State, still be favored in that series, Chris. But Minnesota's tough. They're a really tough team.

Oh, yeah, for sure. And I know, you know, obviously, if you're Houston or Golden State, it's now the way it's played out. You want the Pelicans to drop to seven or eight. That's what you want. Pelicans, I would think, is the team that you would want to see if you are the Rockets or the Warriors rather than Oklahoma City or Minnesota or the Spurs. or any of those teams that are at the bottom of the standings.

But we've still got so much to shake out. I think Denver's a team you want to see, though. Denver would be, yeah, but I'm just saying if Minnesota beats them on Wednesday night. Okay, fair. Because we're also going to have, right, we've got that game and we have Spurs Pelicans, which is going to decide a lot. Yeah. It's funny because we've talked so much about, you know, these matchups on all the Ringer NBA shows

or talked about on Bill's pod the last month and a half or so. And even with just a couple days left, it's still hard to talk about playoff matchups because so much can get shuffled around. Yep. And the same goes in the Eastern Conference because when you look ahead, we have Philadelphia at Atlanta. And so that's not the Sixers will claim the three seed if they can beat, if they can beat the Hawks and then they beat the bucks, right? If the Cavs win and Philly drops either game, then Cleveland moves up to three, which is interesting because that's very important because that would mean you would either face the Celtics who are obviously hobbled or the

seven seed in the second round if you're able to get to that. And then we still have the six through the eight in the east that are all toss-ups between Washington, Miami, and Milwaukee. And that one is complicated because the Wizards are hosting Boston. And if the Wizards win against Boston, that makes their Wednesday game against Orlando interesting for the seven seed because a wizard's loss would guarantee them the eight seed since the heat owns some kind of weird extra tiebreaker. So as of right now, the way BPI, what ESPN does the playoff projections as, the wizards have a 73% chance of getting the eighth seed,

and yet only a 14% chance of getting the seventh seed. and yet only a 14% chance of getting the 7 and a 13% chance of getting the 6. So let's just say that's right. Let's say that plays to the numbers. Damn, man. I mean, if you're Toronto, you're like, seriously? You're going to put the freaking Wizards in the first round?

Like, that is the one team. You would have mega backcourt matchups, right? Sure. I mean, they're throwing Lowry and DeRosen, but you're catching Wall and Beal. On the other hand, though, that team is a really weird place right now. You know, Marcy and Gortadoe last week mentioning, you know, how they're a selfish team, how they need to play help defense, how, you know, they all need to help each other. They're in a weird spot.

Two and eight in their last 10, lost four in a row. You know, he only started bitching when Wall came back, right? Yeah, I know. It's very interesting. Let me go back in time. It's very interesting. If we track back, do you remember the game that they played the whistle? Wizards played against Dallas, and Berea and Wall got into it, and they started jabbing back and forth, and then Berea said, basically said to him, or no, went in the post game.

Yeah, it was postgame. And said his teammates hate him. Yep. You could say whatever you want. Like, that was one that, like, cut to the core. You don't usually hear things like that. And I was like, damn, man, this guy's going for the jugular. And I just kind of blew it off.

But then Wall went out, and you remember Gortot, like put up those tweets about great team win and whatever. And so, like, now you've got Gortad bitching again. And I started to think to myself, like, because you know Wall and Beal have never been buddy, buddy. And I was like, wait, do they really not like him? You know what I mean? Like they're not. And on Beal or not being buddy buddy, back in, I think it was probably one of the first 10 or so things I wrote on the ringer, how when Bill got his big money contract, there was a little bit of like jealousy on Wall's on because he hadn't gotten paid, didn't have his shoe deal. And, you know, they worked it out, right?

I mean, you don't have to be best friends. You don't have to be BFFs. You don't need to chill all the time. You don't need to do that shit. But what you need is a good working relationship. And right now, it seems like they don't necessarily have that, which they did last season when they were clicking. They figured it out.

This year's just been really weird with how those guys have worked together. And John Wall is still an unbelievable player, Chris. Let's make that clear. But there's some flaws in his game that I don't know if he can get over. I think with the everybody eats thing the Wizards had, the ball movement was good. They were attacking closeouts immediately off the pass. With wall, the ball just kind of stops. And that's a hard habit to get out of.

It looks more when he's playing. It looks, you know who it looks like? More like Old Toronto. Yeah, actually right. Whereas New Toronto is the way you want to be, which is the ball popping around everywhere. All right, Kevin. We'll get right back to it first. I want to tell you about Seek geek.

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from sports to concerts to comedy to theater. Best of all, our listeners get 20 bucks off their first Seat-Geek purchase. Just download the Seatgeek app and enter the promo code Ringer NBA today. That's promo code Ringer NBA for $20 off your first Seat-Geek purchase. Seat-Geek, right now, right from your phone. Now, back to the show. I kind of hope that these matchups that are projected as we speak today, are the ones that play out.

Because it'd be hard for there to be some kind of matchups that aren't intriguing. But as of the way it is projected now, it would be Raptors versus Wizards, Celtics versus Heat, Sixers bucks. Holy Macro, would that be amazing? And then Cavs Pacers. That's how that would play out. That's a tough path for Toronto, isn't it? Yeah, if you're Toronto, you're like, damn it. I got to beat the Wizards and the Cavs.

even if you end up with Milwaukee or Miami in the first round, but if your second round matchup as Cleveland versus Indiana, that's tough. I mean, that's a really tough situation for them. Because obviously Cleveland, they have a guy by the name of LeBron. Some of us might have heard of them,

some of our listeners. And Indiana, if they happen to upset Cleveland, if they upset Cleveland, it means something's going really right for them. It means Victor Oladipal is playing at an even higher level than he has all season. I had them all-N-B-A.

Indiana is going to be a tough out as well. The 6-7-8, Milwaukee, Miami, Washington, whatever order they're in. Yeah, you know, a lot of talent there. John Wall can be great. Janus is unbelievable. But I don't necessarily fear any of those teams. But second-round matchup against Cleveland or Indiana. Yeah, but how about this?

Wild. It's this. We've all buried the Celtics. If they stay away from Cleveland, the Celtics would have to beat the heat, and then the Sixers. For sure. And it's not inconceivable. They could be back in the Eastern Conference finals if that's their track.

I mean, this is so weird. I don't think you can discount that obviously Brad Stevens is a great coach. And the fact that the Sixers, they have been totally awesome. They are going to be going through this for the first time. And when you're going up against a great coach, there are going to be certain adjustments that are made. And now you are taking a young team that has to adjust on the floor. fly, you know, and usually you find with these young, fantastic teams, they've got to take their

lumps first. Usually it doesn't really go great the first time through. And so I think that if you are the Celtics, this is exactly how you'd want it to play out. Certainly, they could get knocked off by the heat. So that could go either way, right? I think from the Celtics point of view, you go, damn, man, we could make the Easter conference finals. On the other hand, if you're the Sixers, you go, we may get to first.

face the heat yeah to be in the Easter conference finals you know it's an unbelievable story for either one of those teams if they do happen and reach the East finals just based on the fact

that their Star Ferry agent the Celtics did for five minutes before he snapped his leg Carrie Irving missing the rest of the season and if they were to still make the East finals weird it just doesn't make any sense and then the Philly

even even somebody who trusted the process in like the highest percentile possible nobody could have expected them to be in the conversation this quickly. And a lot of that is just on Ben Simmons. What he's done this season without a jump shot is remarkable to me. I can't get over the fact that he has, especially the last two months or so, Chris, the last month and a half during this 14 game win streak and a little bit before that, he has elevated his play at an even higher level like a lot of those, like you like to see from rookies and young players, that they have a second half. surge. And Ben Simmons has just elevated his game to a higher level. And I'm so excited to see how

how playoff defense's game plan for him, how the game changes for him in the half court, because there's been instances this season where he's been limited a little bit in the fourth quarter where he either, A, can't touch the ball because he'll be intentionally filed and put on the line, or B, in the situations they've really played off him and forced him. They've really taken away the drive from him. And I wonder if we'll see more of that starting in the first. first quarter in the playoffs and how Ben Simmons adjust because it's like JJ Redick said on his podcast last week. Ben Simmons doesn't need a jumper to be a great player because he's already a great player, right? But how will he adjust against those playoff defenses? What I'm, I'm more intrigued

by probably than anything else in the East. I think this is, this has at the risk of coming off sounding a little bit goofy, I'll try to explain myself the best way I can. Nothing wrong with that. No, I just mean from people being like, oh, that's stupid, right? Of course you need to be able to hit a jumper. We have so many great players in the league that the best mode of operation against them is to back off of them, right? That was the case with LeBron. It is the case. You know, you'd rather have LeBron, Janice, Westbrook, and this kid, who I've been watching a lot more recently,

as guys that if you have a choice, you'd certainly rather have them shooting. You know, everybody always says turn them into jump shooters, right? Now, I would say that there is weirdly, as I have watched, and this is just my opinion, there's a weird benefit to that being the case. And just hear me out. Defensees then start back so much further from these guys, right? Because you're giving them space. Because what you want is for them to take the jump shot. And what you find with many of these great players that teams are attempting to turn into jump shooters, they use that extra space to get.

a full head of steam. Does that make sense? It's like you are now giving them space to start moving downhill. And you see it with Westbrook and you see it with Yannis and you see it with LeBron and you see it with Simmons. And so there is actually this bizarre advantage sometimes for them not being guys that you hug up on as to not shoot the ball. Because now you're giving them a couple of steps and they still blow past you. It doesn't matter if you're, these guys are such great athletes and are so long that you can be two feet off of them. And if you're giving them that extra step to start getting going downhill, they can make their play. And that's how it feels with Simmons.

Yeah, that's true in a lot of matchups for sure, especially if they're against an inferior defender that it's given them space. Like you said, it only gives them more of a lane to get going. We saw that in the past with Demar de Rosen. and sometimes he'd be spotted up from like 35 feet out and immediately off the catch he'd just attack because he'd have a real lane just to get to the basket with his defender playing so far off and we've seen that with Ben Simmons as well, as you said.

But the playoffs perhaps will be a little bit different. Maybe if he's matched up against always the premier defender on the opposing team, that lane might not be there quite as much. But then again, he has made progress against that defense, against set defenses over the course of the season. We've seen that over the win streak. Like I said, Chris, I'm more interested in that than probably any other individual player storyline in the East.

I mean, there's a lot of interesting stuff. Joel and Bede returning. Victor Oladipo, how he steps up in the playoffs. How LeBron, James, plays with this team that's been in-and-out injuries, the hood and hill. How much of the responsibilities he going to have to own? how do the younger guys on the Celtic step up? We've talked a lot about the West,

but the East also has a lot of interesting subplots too. The East has a ton. I think the matchups are great. Every one of these teams, I would say the one, it was in Boston lost their guys in terms of their big star power, but with the way Oladipo has played this year,

you want to see how he's going to do. Clearly get another year of Janus and his crew back in the playoffs. could see Jabari Parker, right, performing in the, in the playoffs. And then Miami is probably, and even when your eight seat has John Wall and Brad Beal, like, the whole, the whole playoffs there is going to be littered with all stars. I mean, probably the one with the least is Miami, who still has Goran Dragich and has on White Tide as a, as their point guard and their and their center. And they're obviously always well coached and well prepared. So yeah, the east is going to be great. I think the Eastern Conference players. have a chance to be long series and super epic and hard to predict how it's all going to play out, whereas everybody thinks that Houston and Golden State are foregone conclusions to go to the Western Conference Finals, and I'm not so sure about that. I'm not either.

I'm really not. I think we've seen it in the past where teams have adjusted to Houston in the playoffs with game planning, game-to-game adjustments, and that's both with Dan Tony with Phoenix and then with New York and now with Houston, and we'll see how they adjust. I think Houston is the favorite, in my opinion, with Stefan Curry being out. I was high on them before the season. They're probably better than I ever thought they would have been in year one with Hardin and Chris Paul. But there's still a question with how they'll adjust to NBA playoff defense.

We saw Oklahoma City the way they responded to them last weekend. There's no guarantees. Nothing is certain. Kevin, speaking of that, there is a scenario where their track could be absolutely. absolute hell because if Minnesota stays at eight, I think that is a tougher matchup to say the least, okay? Because you're talking, Jimmy Butler and Carl Towns, either one of them could theoretically be the best player on the floor any given night, okay? And they're not your typical. They are certainly at peak of powers better than their record would indicate simply because

they played so much of the season without Jimmy Butler. But they were, you know, the three seat for some for a good amount of time throughout the year. So are they, they're probably more like the third or fourth best team in the conference rather than the eighth, but that's who you'd draw in the first round. And then if Oklahoma City, you know,

sticks at four and they beat the jazz and you got to face them in the second round, I mean, you're talking about having to go through the Timberwolves and then against the thunder in the second round to get to the Western Conference finals. That is no cakewalk, man. I mean, you're talking about those could be, those could both be super long. series. You know what team I think is a little bit overrated?

Who's that? It's Portland. Well, they're limping into this. And it's not just the limping, though. It's the fact that everybody's like, oh, they're the three seed. It's like, yeah, there's a three seed by one game. They're like only two games up on the nine seed, right? It's not like there's a huge separation. They're the three seed. Yes, so what? But also their net rating is closer to average over the course of the full season. They're probably a little bit worse than some of the other teams in the West. I mean, I'd personally be a little bit more nervous about facing OKC. I'd be probably more nervous about facing Minnesota.

And that might sound really silly. And I might look dumb for even suggesting that. No, you're 100% right. And I'll tell you this, the way it's playing out right now or the way it's predicted to play out, Portland was here in Memphis last week. And I was talking to a bunch of people around their team. And I was talking, you know, this is at the time, nothing is even close to shaking. out, right? You don't know how all these games are going to be playing out. And almost to a man,

everybody that I talked to that was involved in that organization when I was talking, they said, we can do some damage in the playoffs. They were very high on themselves, right? In that people are sleeping on us, we can do some damage in the playoffs, but we have to stay away from San Antonio. That was the team they did not want to play with San Antonio. They lined up against them right now. They said they have performed, we feel good about the way we performed about virtually everybody else. And they were like, you can go look. How we've performed against these other teams that we may possibly match up against,

but we don't want to see them. They give us problems. And I was like, oh boy. And now, of course, now it looks like that's exactly right. You get whatever you don't want. I mean, we'll see. We'll see. You don't know.

I believe there's still a chance that Utah could also slide up to the three seat as well. And Utah is a team that I would not want to face. I would not want to face Utah. Absolutely not I mean that's my thing It's like if you're power ranking You know teams you fear in the Western Conference You know teams that I would have

Probably Houston Golden State Utah Oklahoma City Minnesota Portland I'd probably put Portland 6th And then would you rather face the Pelicans Or the Nuggets

That's an interesting one Hmm That's tough It's easier to breathe in New Orleans Yeah Denver has a Better overall team I think But New Orleans has Anthony Davis

right so i i think in that sense you'd probably rather face Denver just because anthony davis is such a remarkable player and they've also gotten contributions from some other surprising places rajan rondo's been really good the last couple weeks on both ends of the floor each on more doing little things hitting big shots um nicola merrititch is still having some really strong performances he's not quite michael jordan like he was earlier in the season for the bulls But even last night against the Clippers, 24 points on, you know, four of nine from three, he was fantastic, spacing the floor, doing what they needed. Drew Holliday, one of the best defensive point cards in basketball.

Yeah, I'd rather face Denver. Because New Orleans has some quality players that are really elevating their game at a time when they need to. That Davis had last night against the Clippers, the one that he caught behind his head with one hand that Rondo threw off the backboard. I was like, this isn't even look real. Yeah. How? How was it possible.

It was really like something out of NBA jam. It really was something like NBA J. Like dunks don't usually make me scream or anything because like we've gotten so used to dunks. We've seen so many great dunks, right? But that one I was like, whoa. That was impossible. That was crazy. I mean, I don't think there's another human on earth that could do that.

From that distance and catch it behind his head as far as he did. That guy had to be 10 feet from the basket it looked like. Rondo, the accuracy of the pass. I mean, the accuracy of Rondo's pass was also terrific. Always interesting to watch Rajvon Rondo. Look, he's not the same player he was before. You've been down with Rondo forever, though.

He's got a soft spot in your heart. Rondo's one of my all-time favorite players to watch. Rondo at his peak, fantastic. And it's always nice to see some of those flashes. And I look forward to his future head coaching career as well. All right, Kevin, get right back to it. First, a word from Google Assistant. With the Google Assistant, you can complete over a million actions

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The offer expires April 15th. Now, back to the show. Let's talk about some of the things that are hanging over these playoffs, and one of them is going to be what happens with LeBron, right? Especially if they don't make an Eastern Conference Finals slash NBA Finals appearance in Cleveland. And I tweeted this out the other day. There was the quote that came out where LeBron Broke,

his offseason choice of whether or not he was going to stay in Cleveland or not. And he said, I thought the quote was more interesting than most because he said, it's going to be about my family and what my family wants me to do. Because you know he has made decisions in the past because of himself, right? He wanted to have a chance to win a title and he didn't think he had that chance. And so he signed up in Miami. And then he wanted to go back to Cleveland and he wanted to make peace with that and try to bring a title to Cleveland, which he thought would be, you know, cement his legacy in his hometown forever, which it did. So it's been accomplished. But I brought up, and you and I have talked about this before, that barbershop, you know, program that he did. If anybody has ever watched that, he talks about how his mother and his wife did not want him to go back to Cleveland. And that, you know, he did. And that. He defied them in doing that and that while he could let bygones be bygones with Dan Gilbert, they could not. They still hate him.

And so when the quote said, I'm going to make a decision because of my family, right? You know, usually guys should say, I just want to win or we'll see the way it all shakes out or whatever. But he specifically said, I'm going to make a decision based on his family. And the only things we know about his family is that they would say, F that guy. Let's go somewhere. I didn't want to be here in the first place. You know what I mean? That's the last people you want LeBron asking if you're a Cleveland fan.

That's what I would think. Here's a perfect example, Chris, of how oftentimes what leads to informed sources on a subject is putting pieces together independently, right? So you're taking one thing LeBron said and combining it with something that he said a year and a half ago, right? And you're putting one piece. with another, and you're thinking, hmm, this is your hypothesis that maybe this means he's going to go somewhere else. And so then the next step is to ask and form people about it. And that's

where there have been hints about him leaving Cleveland Cleveland for quite a while now. And one of the things was that barbershop video that perhaps that not everybody in his circle, like you said, his family, wants him to be there. And LeBron is somebody who has also said, I've accomplished everything that there is to accomplish in my career. He feels like there's nothing else to prove. I believe that was the word. He said, there's nothing left for me to prove. So if that's the truth, maybe it's about putting your family in the best position that they want to be, giving them the best lifestyle that they want to have, wherever that is, maybe it's Houston, maybe it's Philly, maybe it's Los Angeles. Who really knows? That's all based off what the family wants. We don't know

that. But the signs are that perhaps this time in Cleveland is starting to run out. Well, and you also know, listen, the LA things hanging out there. One of the teams, for all intensive purposes, in terms of recruitment, is run by Jerry West and the other one by Magic. And I wouldn't bet against either of them walking into a house and walking out with a commitment.

Well, I mean, so when we first put the story up on the ringer.com that LeBron had eyes for Los Angeles, at the time, what I had heard is most of the people that I chatted with said Lakers for the teams he had asked for, but there were a couple that

that said clippers are also a possibility, but at the time they still had Chris Paul, they still had Blake Griffin, um, their team was completely different than what it looks like now. Right. But on the other hand, there's nothing stopping them from creating Max Cap Space to add another guy either,

depending on what DJ does. If DeAndre Jordan opts in, that's not possible unless they were to flip them. But yeah, they can create Max Cap Space. I don't think they'll get LeBron, but they're certainly an interesting team. They're in LA, first of all.

Number one, they have Jerry West. Yeah, if West wasn't there, I'd give him no chance. But you look back, and whether it is Shaq, whether it is Kobe, whether it is Kevin Durant going to Golden State. Like, he has had his hand in so many of the massive transactions and guys ending up where they did. He has a great recruitment pitch. And what he does. He's a logo.

No, you know what he does? Because I know him because I covered him here. He was the general manager for the Grizzlies. And though he was never able to get anybody here. to the chrilly. He used the same recruitment on Brian Cardinal once upon a time. No, what he does? Hey, this is true though.

You know what he does? He goes in there and he tells them about his tortured existence. I'm not kidding you. This is exactly what he does. And he tells them, I didn't. And I wish I had. It drives me crazy because he went to the finals over and over and over again. And he walked away with one, right?

and he just couldn't get over the hump, but he kept losing and he kept losing and he kept losing, and he wishes he would have done something different in his career. And it haunts him every day of his life. And so when he walks into somebody and he explains that to him, here's your opportunity to not be like me. Wake up every morning and think what might have been. It is actually, like if you hear that,

and especially with somebody from his gravitas, it is incredibly, incredibly persuasive because he's sitting there pouring his heart out to you, and I've heard this for many people. And he'll say, I wake up every morning wishing I would have done something different. Don't let that be you. And you walk out, and even if you didn't feel that way,

it's almost like, well, shit, I don't want to wake up it, right? It's coming from a guy that's literally the logo of the league and has accomplished so much, not just as his career as a player, as a coach, as an executive. He's done it all in basketball, and he still feels that way. And you saying that reminds me of back in February or early March when Kevin Garnett was quoted saying that he said his only regret is not going, leaving Minnesota and going to Boston five years sooner, right? So they could have won more in their primes.

And then Anthony Davis said in an interview shortly after that, he's like, that makes you think, right? It makes you wonder if you're following the same path as KG, you know, by staying in your situation, by remaining loyal, instead of just really putting yourself first and thinking about yourself. I mean, that sounds selfish. But, you know, it's your career. It's your one chance to accomplish all the things that you want to accomplish. And that's what Jerry West is trying to say in those pitches that you said. Yeah, and he's saying, listen, people hung around my neck. what I didn't accomplish,

what I didn't get done. And I knew it could have been so much different. I could have been the one with all the rings if I would have made different choices. Because he never won until he was basically towards the end of his career. And look at the frigging numbers the guy put up. Even in the finals.

It was clear if he had more running buddies, it could have been a different story. It really could have. And to be clear, in the year that he won, I said he was. towards the end of his career, but he still averaged 26 points for a game and 10

assists. He was fantastic. It's just it was towards the end. Well, and also, the end for him was much, much sooner than these guys. Jerry West retired by the time he was, I want to say... 35. Okay, 35 was his last year? 31 games last season.

Right. He's 35 years old, right? But, I mean, he was... It's crazy because he had all of those different years where he just fell short, and so he really does use that. And he has had his voice in the head of superstar after superstar for the last 15 to 20 years, and the greatest players. And so that's the reason I wouldn't count out anything he's involved in, because you just never know when it comes to him. I certainly would have never, in a million years, thought Kevin Durant would go to Golden State.

Would you? If you go back and down, that was shocking. That was a what? Murray three-win team, you for real? I mean, it's still kind of shocking. What was your reaction when the news came out that morning on July 4th? Was it shock? Was it surprised? Was it disappointment? How'd you feel on Katie's signed of Golden State?

My first reaction was, oh, this is bullshit. Bro, you just lost in seven games to them. Yeah. This is stupid. Like, why are we even going to play? That was my reaction, right? Like, what's the point? You know what I mean?

If you're a fan of any of the other 29 teams, when that news came out, it's like, oh, come on. You can't have a 70-something win team and then add the second best player to it. This is just stupid. So, yeah, that was my reaction, that this is bullshit. Me too. That was certainly my initial reaction that I had. It was just utter shock.

I couldn't believe you went to Golden State. But then shortly after that, you know, I would take a step back, you cool off. And it's like, yeah, like, they're certainly the favorite for the next four to five years, but nothing's inevitable. I mean, there's no team is. unbeatable. We've seen great teams get taken down in the past, and the team I always go back to is the 18 and O Patriots when they

were greatest Super Bowl favorites in history against the New York Giants, and yet they still lose the game, and their magical offense wasn't so magical against the perfectly constructive defense. Let me just take a quick time out. They wouldn't have lost no four out of seven, though.

You're right. You are. They play one game. They might, they probably wouldn't have lost out of three. They probably would have won the next two. No. They certainly would have. I mean, so in the NFL, you don't, you get one shot at it. And we just saw the 73 win warriors lose a couple weeks prior to Cleveland. Right? So nothing's inevitable. And that's what's so interesting about this season is like, yeah, Houston's the favorite. Yeah,

Golden State's the favorite too. They're both the favorites in the West. Yeah, you still got LeBron in the East and Toronto's at the top. But there's no certainties. And that's what makes it so exciting for teams like Philly. Okay. It's unbelievable. Yeah, let me ask you about that. All right, let me just backtrack real quick before we get into a couple of quick hits before we get out of here. On that particular topic, so yesterday, and I'll just give an example, I'm not going to kill the guy, but like, you know, you and you tweet something, and there's always, you know, there's always people out there that are jerks.

And so there was the one tweet, I think I retweeted it, and it was about Ben Simmons saying that no other rookie has impressed him. And then Donovan Mitchell put up that walk-a-flok-flok-off meme, right? And it was funny. It was funny. It was like somebody had posted, imagine not loving the NBA. And, of course, inevitably, somebody's going to respond to me.

And there is say, oh, you mean where they play 82 meaningless games and it's a foregone conclusion because two or three teams have a chance to win the championship? And I just let it go and I don't even respond or whatever. But do you think it's bad?

If we talk like this and we talk ourselves into something different happen, if we get another Warriors versus Cavs, while the ratings will be fantastic because anything including all those stars will be great. Do you think it's bad if we get that again? No.

That it will prove that all this, that you guys could talk yourselves into that the outsider, the person that doesn't care about the league can say, yeah, that's why I told you, right? Like it's stupid, right? That's, well, I could have told you at the beginning. Why did they even have to play a season?

Let's just fast forward to them playing again in the playoffs. I don't feel that way because, you know, Anybody who's actually watching the games and they're not just looking at, like, NBA history, NBA finals history, and they see Golden State and Cleveland four times in a row. They know the challenges that the team had to go through to get there. Golden State, it's not going to be easy for them if they get to the finals. It's not going to be because Stefan Curry's hurt. The team is vulnerable.

It really is. I mean, the fact that we're even talking about how a team like Minnesota could give them a hard time kind of says all you need to know. Cleveland is the frigging four seed, dude. I mean, we're talking about maybe Philly can beat them. I mean, Toronto is the one seed right now. Cleveland is not the favorite. It would be a great story if we get Cleveland and Golden State for the fourth year in a row. And not only that, Chris, but when we look back at this time, when we look back 10, 15, 20 plus years from now,

and we see Cleveland and Gold State met four times in a row and had these great epic series, a 3-1 comeback. We saw LeBron James going against one of the greatest. teams ever four years in a row, we're going to think, man, that was awesome. Great times. Nobody's going to worry about how it was, quote, unquote, inevitable, because it's not inevitable. And anybody sensible knows that. All right, fair enough. I will say, you know, back to that when you're talking about Minnesota, like, if they can

get it done and they remain, whether it is seven or whether it is eight, they are a team that I would just not want to see. I have told you a hundred times, my opinion. on being able to play the Rockets of the Warriors, whether it was the Grizzlies that gave them problems, both of those teams for years, when they played that old school style where they could drag the game into the mud

and be comfortable playing you in the 90s, right? And that's exactly how Cleveland was able to beat them in the year that you mentioned. They beat them by not letting those games get into the hundreds. Minnesota is that team. I think Utah is that team too. Those are the type of teams. anybody that will be super comfortable playing you half-court basketball

and dragging that game all the way down are the ones that are going to be able to make the awesome teams uncomfortable, right? And so that's why I think they're pretty dangerous. I do. They are for sure. Can I say one more thing about Golden State? This isn't going to last forever either.

It's just not. I mean, Katie's probably going to sign those one-and-one deals for the next X amount of years, just like the Bron did. He's going to be a free agent every year. Clay Thompson's going to be a free agent in 2019. Draymond's a free agent the following year. This is not going to last forever for Gold State. Well, and Steph's ankles have been failing him.

Yes, they have. He's missed more games since he signed that massive contract than he had in the last five years. And that's why I always say, don't take LeBron James for granted, but it's the truth for any star, anything that you love and enjoy in life, don't take it for granted. You have to enjoy it every day because even though Steph has just been remarkable for the last five seasons and he's been healthy. after having ankle injuries early in his career, it doesn't mean he'll always be healthy. And hopefully he gets back on track, especially this season. Man, I want to see Golden State at full strength

against Houston in the West Finals. Last thing that does reference the business of the NBA is a team that I am very familiar with the Memphis Grizzlies. Their owner, Robert Perra, who there was a very weird clause that was signed five years ago that was going to allow, almost like a Texas shootout style, where it's, you know, there's three different guys.

You're going to be able to put your bid in. And at that point, Parra could either match it and say, I want to keep the team or he could sell for that price. Right. And so it's almost like, you know, like that's the best way to simply explain it. And Zach Lowe reported some of the details of it this morning. So the people that were involved were Robert Perra, Steve Kaplan, who has been involved in trying to buy a lot of different teams. he owns a now an English Premier League team. But in addition to that, they tried to buy the hawks.

They've tried to buy the Timberwolves and maybe some others. And then this guy, Daniel Strauss. And Zach Lowe reports that Daniel Strauss actually put in the biggest bid. And that's the one that Para had to match, which was $1.3 billion, I think the number was put at. 1.3 billion for the Grizzlies. I mean, you don't think this league's doing well? It's doing great. I mean, these things are not depreciating in value.

I get it, right? But my God. I mean, I think the team was bought for 300 million something. 300 million. And that's five years ago, Kevin. Remarkable. One point three billion. And I'll tell you this.

I know Pera. I know Kaplan. I have never seen, met, heard from. Daniel Strauss in my life. Daniel Strauss could walk in this office I'm in right now, and I wouldn't know who that was. And he's the one that put in the highest bid.

Never seen him in my life. I've covered the team and I've worked on the broadcast for what? I don't know. Long time. Years, years, a lot of years. And I have never seen, heard, or so that was kind of crazy. It's like, wow. Could a team could have been, like, I mean, if Perra just said,

hey, you know what, you can have it for $1.3 billion. they'd be owned by a guy that, I mean, Kaplan was around. I've seen him a lot. And obviously, Robert Pera has owned the team for some amount of time. But that price tag, ooh, boy. I mean, if the Grizzlies go for $1.3 billion, like, that's the mark. That's the floor. There's nobody that's going to go for less.

It's interesting. As Forbes, they did their valuation of NBA team values, and they had the Grizzlies at 1.025 earlier this year. So the lowest team was New Orleans straight up at $1 billion, right? Right. So obviously they paid 125% more than the one, the valuation that they had. And that makes you wonder, a team like the Knicks, they had 3.6 billion. Would they actually be more like 4.5 or even close to five? Are they worth significantly more than we actually think? And in fairness, that is not necessarily what you would put on the market and get. You know, this is like a high stakes game of poker. If you have the team, Kevin, and I come to you, And I write my number down on a sheet of paper and you write your number down and then I slide it over and I say it's $1.3 billion. Now you have to make that choice.

Either I'm keeping it for that. So you theoretically, you would try to bid a number. If you really wanted the team, you would try to bid a number that the other person won't match. Because in the worst case scenario, they do match and they've got to buy you out of your shares at that number. so you want I mean but you're you're really playing chicken there exactly right

because what if the guy says all right F it take it it's yours you're like oh crap 1.3 billion dollars just to put it into perspective the teams that were worth between 1.1.3 and 1.4 according to Forbes were Toronto

Sacramento, Washington, Cleveland, Portland. Wow. This is betting on the come as they say right that these things have appreciated in value in such a massive way, it is becoming a bigger and bigger sport every year. The younger generation is more into the NBA than ever before, I would say. And so the idea that these things are all of a sudden going to depreciate in value when there's only 30 of them in existence,

that even the smallest of markets, the value is not going to go down. And so, yeah, maybe it takes a little while before that's the value, but it will eventually be, you know what I mean? It will. I have a random thought, Chris, that's just on my mind. Please. Do you think Russell Westbrook gets his triple double? He needs 16 more rebounds. Last game of the season. Do you think he gets it?

I don't think there's, I would bet my life on it. Against Memphis. I bet my life on it. I think he gets it too. Stephen Adams will clear the way. Yeah. Right? I mean, they may start him at center.

They could. against the Grizzlies, and he'd be fine. Yeah, they should announce him as that, like kind of tongue-in-cheek joke. I mean, you got 18 last night against Miami. You know, he had a disappointing game against Houston with only seven, but I bet he gets it.

I bet he does. There's no doubt in my mind. Kevin, by the next time we speak, we'll be talking playoff matchups. I can't wait. Dude, I'm pumped, dude. I can't wait to get the season over with and start playing the real games

starting Saturday night. I'm pumped. Saturday afternoon, actually. Even better. Saturday afternoon. That's right. Thanks to Isaac on the other side of the glass. Kevin, I'll talk to you next week.

Hell yeah, Chris. Talk to you soon. Thanks to everybody for listening to another Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes. And we will talk to you next Tuesday.