The Ringer NBA Show - Dallas Wins the Cooper Flagg Sweepstakes. Plus, the Knicks Take a Step Closer to the Conference Finals.

Episode Date: May 13, 2025

The Dallas Mavericks landed the no. 1 pick in the draft, which means that they’ll likely take the consensus no. 1 prospect, Cooper Flagg, after they traded Luka Doncic to the Lakers midway through the 2024-25 season. Logan, Howard, and Raja discuss how the lottery miraculously ended up going in Dallas's favor and what Flagg can be at the next level. Should this year’s lottery be a warning to teams who are obviously tanking? Jayson Tatum left Game 4 of the Celtics vs. Knicks Eastern Conference semifinals game with an apparent leg injury that could sideline him for a long time. The guys discuss how Tatum’s injury could affect the Celtics' future in light of the major cap issues they have looming. Is now the time for Jaylen Brown to step up? Plus, the mailbag! (0:00) Intro (1:00) Show start (1:24) Thoughts on Cooper Flagg to Dallas (22:35) Fan Duel Ad Break (23:56) Jayson Tatum’s Injury (38:39) Knicks - Celtics (50:26) Mailbag The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja Bell Producer/Audio: Clifford Augustin Video Producer: Victoria Valencia Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and John Richter Social: Keith Fujimoto Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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states gambling problem call 1 800 gambler or visit rgdash help dot com ruins what's going on we have a great show for you today we're going to talk about cooper flag conspiracy theories jason tatum's injury and mailbag next what's popping ruins logan murdock here rogerville there howard beck in the motherfucking cup victoria on the video, Cliff on the boards. Very interesting night of NBA action and news. You know, there's on one hand, there's the Tatum news, which we're going to get to in a bit.

There is the Dallas news, which was wild. The Knicks are somehow like finals contenders now. Let's start with the, let's start with the NBA lottery. The Dallas Mavericks, who apparently Raja had on his bingo card who get the number one pick. I don't know if he's he was lying or if he's telling the truth here.

Roger, what were your thoughts on that Cooper flag going to Dallas? I don't have any real thoughts. I definitely said, I mean, if I,

my wife's running around here somewhere right now. Who's going to vote for you and these lies? At least four people were sitting there with me when I said Dallas is 100% getting

the number one pick. And it wasn't any, I just had that feeling. It wasn't it, I'm not a conspiracy theorist by nature or anything like that. I just had a gut. that that was going to happen.

And you know why? Because in Nico we trust. Because in Nico, this was the plan the whole time, bro. Like, y'all just got to let somebody's plan come to fruition. See, that's what we do. We jump to these conclusions. Like, we're halfway home and trying to figure out whether the ride was a good ride or not. Sometimes you got to take the whole damn ride before you can say whether it was a good ride or not.

Wow, wow, wow. Our third eyes just ain't open, huh, Howard? right you know what i'm just not really locked in our chakras aren't aligned we are not here i know no all jokes aside all jokes aside um i did think they were going to get it i don't know i just had a gut with that and if you asked me like my true reaction i think it's a great fit for for cooper flag um and people are going to say oh shit yeah i mean you know most time number one picks are going to franchises that that aren't ready to win games and so on and so forth and i think unique he or him as a first pick is going to need the support.

He's not your typical give him the ball and he's going to get you 30 and pull this franchise out of like, you know, oblivion type of player. He is, he is a, he is a winning player at the highest level that will need help to do that. And so I think that specifically for him, Dallas being the pick was, or getting the pick was was an awesome thing for his career. I want to stay with Roger real quick. Top of mind right now, me and Cliff were talking about this pre-pod. Guys that are top picks going to a ready-made contender, right?

Or at least a roster that is trying to contend for winning. We know Nico Harrison for every decision that he has made is allegedly trying to win. And with this type of pick. Allegedly. Up until now. I mean, little ambiguous. That's what he says. But I was talking to Cliff about this pre-pod about guys that are put into a system so young, right?

And that are top flight picks going into these types of situations. I think about Tim Duncan, right? I think about Andrew Wiggins, although he was traded away, for the reason I'm about to ask you. but like how do you integrate a young player? And we talk about this all the time, Raja, guys that have to figure out the league and figure out how to win at this level

and figure out just the game switch in general. How does Cooper Flagg do that into this roster who he is going to play alongside Anthony Davis? But Kyrie Irving's probably not going to come back until some people say estimate January, but I think it could be a little bit later than that. How does he find his game a lot? alongside everyone else and keep that team in contention the way Nico Harrison says he wants it to be.

Well, I mean, I don't know that he keeps him in contention right away the way Nico Harrison wants him to be in contention. Like he's not going to fill the Kyrie void. Kyrie's a huge, you know, a lot of this is going to depend on what they do to offset, you know, Kyrie's absence until whenever he's healthy again because he's, you know, he's the playmaker, or the guy that kind of stirs the drink offensively. And that's not what Cooper is going to be right away. So to answer your question, I think, you know, a lot of times it's not unlike young quarterbacks in the NFL or, you know, young pitchers, probably in MLB, just young players

in general. Pressure, pressure too early can have real negative ramifications down the road, right? And so there is a certain amount of pressure that just comes with being the pick and having the opportunity to play, but, but you don't want to put the weight of a franchise on, on, on someone's shoulder that, that is as young as our number one picks are. I mean, all of these guys are one year college kids, right? Cooper, Cooper reclassed up to get out. So he's a, he's a real baby. Like, you don't, you don't want him to have to go somewhere and say, hey, man, you do all the interviews, you take all the shots, you answer all the questions when we win and when

we lose. You, you protect them from that, right? So that, pressure is not on him. And having AD, the roster that they have, Kyrie when he's healthy, will not only protect him from the, from the, you know, the media and the circus that that can become, but also protect his game in a way that he can really develop into the true, the true, you know, player that he's supposed to be. Not everyone develops into a 30-a-night guy. Not every, you know, some people, whether we like it or not, number one picks might not develop. they might develop into, you know, just phenomenal, you know, glue guys that are high, high level 20, 22 a game, eight boards, four assists. Like, when you watched him play at Duke, he fills up a stat sheet as well as anyone, you know, in college basketball.

So maybe he develops into that type of NBA player at its highest level. But having people around you that can carry the weight allows him to do so. And so I just, you know, I think that's for any, any young player in any, real sport if you have the opportunity to protect them and bring them along, you know, at a, at a pace that, that, uh, that you can monitor and you can then decide when they're ready to, to take on that weight. I think that's the appropriate, you know, that's the appropriate way to attack that. Howard, uh, the one of the bigger things that came out of this was the video of Nico Harrison's reaction to this pick, right? It seemed like a sigh of relief. It seemed like, um,

a guy that is just living a life of roller coasters, you know, over the last few months, and we've been living this with him. Where do you think that he stayed? What does this pick do for his future? And what does he need to do with this second wind

that he has gone, that he has had in the last few hours and last few days? How does, what do you want to see from him? What does he need to do going for? word. This is, it's so fascinating, right? Because there's, you know, there's a case to be made here that for anybody who believes in karma, basketball gods, any of this stuff, that stuff, that shit just got shattered. Because apologies to Raja, anybody who saw what happened

to the last few months, the way that Mavs fans had their hearts ripped out, the way that this entire thing was handled, the messaging, the deal itself, the weird negotiation, all of it. The Mavericks as an organization deserved to suffer. Their fans don't, but the organization deserved to suffer and they just got this massive lifeline

thrown to them. And just by the luck of the lottery balls. And yes, folks, it's just luck. It's not anything else shut up. So this massive lifeline, Patrick Dumont, off the hook for now. Nico Harrison, off the hook for now. Anthony Davis and Kyrie Irving,

once he gets healthy, you've now got either a stellar young stud to help bring along and also to help you in the twilights of your respective injury marred careers. Or who knows, they could flip him. Where it comes down on the Nico part of this is, okay, you got this lifeline. What are you going to do with it? Because you inherited a franchise that had a generational superstar and you traded him away for a sack of beans. And now you've got an opportunity to get either a, a, a, a, a, Very highly regarded young stud in Cooper Flag or you could trade him.

You now have to figure out what the best fit is, either with him and an aging Kyrie in AD, Kyrie who may not play until whatever, January, February, if he plays next season at all. Are you on a two timeline thing? Is this the Warriors all over again with two timelines where you're trying to contend in the present, but Cooper Flag is the future? Who are you building around? Nico said after he made the trade, well, we've got like a three to five year window and then Jason and I might be fired by then anyway. He said that. I don't know why he said that, but he said that. Well, that was the realistic window was like you've got a few years with Kyrie and AD in their early to mid-30s. And then it's time for a new era. So what is the priority now? Is it to do everything possible to try to contend for championships with those two as your centerpieces?

or is it about a future revolving around Cooper flag? Or are you trying to split the difference? That's a really fascinating conversation. And I think they have to at least have the conversation too internally of not saying they should trade the pick, not saying they will. But do they at least have the conversation of, hey, if we put the number one pick out there, what could we get, maybe make a better trade this time and get actual value back? You could get Luca back.

And yeah, exactly. What could that pick net you that might be more conducive to the near timeline, which is the Kyrie Irving Anthony Davis time? Well, there's somebody right now, Howard, that is behind the scenes pump faking that, you know, maybe I might be ready to leave Milwaukee. Maybe I might be ready to trade for Roger shaking his head. You would try Cooper flag for Janice Sonday Cumbo? I mean, in a vacuum, I would, but I don't think he's good with Anthony Davis, so I wouldn't do that if I. I mean, I just feel like, it's okay, I just feel like Nico, if his, if this whole deal is just accumulating assets, right? Like, he's just accumulating people, defensive-minded people.

Yonis is a defensive-minded guy. He's a superstar, former Nike guy. I, it doesn't matter the fit, Roger. It just matters what, because it doesn't matter what Nico's going to do. And he's very clearly proven that he will do anything to literally anything in his mind to improve a roster. I want to argue the basketball gods thing. I think that's interesting. Like, what if the basketball gods did smile on a fan base that felt like, you know,

they had lost their savior and it was somebody swooped in and stole them in the middle of the night? What if that was a reward for that? What if the basketball gods? Yeah. What if the basketball, what if the basketball gods swooped in and, and rewarded? someone for like having clarity of vision and what they see a team being. Ooh. And sticking to his guns regardless of what all these talking heads are talking about.

What if that was that? What if they swooped in and said, here you go, Nico. I don't know. Or counterpoint. Or counterpoint light shines on a dog's ass every once in a while, right? Raja missed his calling as a White House press secretary. Whoa. That was a phenomenal spin right there.

That was some great gas lighting. Wait, Howard, while we have you right here, can you just, you basically eviscerated Cliff pre-pod. Can you just tell people why their conspiracy series. I missed that? Yeah, you miss it. That's what you get for being six minutes late. Howard, how does he, uh, can we, let's back up on the, on the, on the verbiage there. I did not eviscerate Cliff.

I might have lectured Cliff. I might have been emphatically speaking to Cliff about this idea. Oh, God. But spare me, spare me, spare me. I love Cliff. We all love Cliff. We also get on Cliff's head. And like, that's just what happened. Can you, the point is, you're pushing away from the subject I'm trying to get to out. Can you, can you tell people why they're full of shit for thinking there is a conspiracy? People like Raja, people like, like, like, Cliff, who think this is a conspiracy.

Well, how am I catching strays? I literally said, I don't think there's a conspiracy. I can't believe you're going to make me do this again. Go ahead. Now, listen, it's out there everywhere. I know, like, that's people's gut reaction, especially when a team has, like, a 1.8% chance or whatever leaps up. And especially given the circumstances of the Mavericks, like, I get it. I understand why people's brains go this way. It is kind of a human reaction.

But it's like, you know, it's like your most primitive human reaction, people. Like, sit back, take a deep breath and think about this. For the NBA to rig the lottery, and I've been in the room, we can get to that in a minute. I've been in the room before I was not there last night. Sottle flex. But for the, Zach Lowe was there last night in the room and his podcast, which should be out by the time this pod's out. He'll be, do it. Zach does such a phenomenal job of storytelling like from the room.

So make sure to tune into that. Forget for a moment whether or not you quote unquote could rig it logistically, right? Just think about the concept of this for a minute and why. this is fucking ludicrous, bad shit crazy stuff. For the NBA to rig the lottery. First of all, who's the NBA? Is it Adam Silver and the people at Olympic Tower in Manhattan? Or is it the 30 owners who all spent billions to own these teams?

Because you're not just perpetrating a fraud on the public. You're perpetrating a fraud on your actual business partners, on the owners themselves. And now 29 of them are okay with a fraud that benefits one of them, the team that they were all just laughing at five minutes ago for trading away their franchise star, and they're going to reward him, they're all going to agree to this. And if it's not involving all those owners, and it's just the league office, then the league office is perpetrating a fraud. By the way, multiple felonies involved here, I'm sure.

Perpetrating a fraud on the 30 owners, the people who employ Adam Silver. Like, how does any of this make a lick of fucking sense? And then when it comes to the room itself, which again, yes, Logan, I've been in the room. So there's a bunch of media members in there for us to be there as neutral observers to watch this. There's a whole process you can see. But it's presided over and administered by representatives of Ernst & Young, this like, you know, worldwide, you know, a global consulting and finance firm. Like they do a lot of different things. They're highly respected. So now is Ernst & Young, are they complicit in it? Are they the ones who are actually doing the rigging? Like, how does this make any sense? There's NBA security in there, of course. There's a representative.

of all 14 lottery teams. So now if being in the room meant you could see it, and then you all had to keep it a secret, great conspiracy, throw like three dozen people in a room and ask them all keep the same secret, now you've got representatives of the teams, the teams that are losing the lottery, agreeing to cover up the, the, you know, manufactured results that are benefiting,

again, the team that they were all making fun of five minutes ago for trading away Luca, none of this makes it lick of sense. It's not the way it happens. I get that people are puzzled, perplexed, annoyed, weirded out by it. Shit happens. It's a lottery for a reason. There's a bunch of ping pong balls in a hopper.

They've got to come out and there's like a thousand different number combinations. You can see it all. I think it's on YouTube now. They post it after the fact. It's not rigged. Just stop. It's annoying. I mean, or or it's the basketball.

God's man. Wow. Yeah. I want to say, Raj, just to re-emphasize, the basketball guys shining on Mavericks fans, I'm with. They've suffered enough. They did not deserve. They did not deserve to have their hearts ripped out by your buddy Nico Harrison. By your man's. But it's rewarding the fans. It's like the idea that it's rewarding Mavericks management after making a catastrophic trade. Yeah, I can't quite embrace. Very eloquent crash out by Howard Beck, ladies and gentlemen. Great job. One of the interesting things, though, about this lottery, right, is the fact that all the teams that went to go take were not rewarded for it, right? Quite frankly, with the number one pick.

You talk about the Sixers. I mean, happy for Cliff who got his third pick and got to keep his pick. he's very, very excited about that, right? But I think about a team like the Utah Jazz, who in the final night of the season, saw that the Washington Wizards had won a game and therefore put themselves a half game up or back or something like that

in the standings in terms of draft considerations, and then bench their starters to lose the game, right? To improve their odds. They were not rewarded for that. Neither were the Hornets, who were just terrible all season long. Howard, do you think in some twisted way,

I'm thinking about the basketball gods here, do you think that these reforms actually, is this a victory for the reforms that we actually have a team that for whatever you want to say about Nico Harrison, he's trying, right? Or the team is actually trying to make the playoffs get a pick like this.

Is it some twisted way this helps help the argument for the reforms that have been put in place years ago? Yeah, absolutely, positively it does. You know, the first year the reforms were in place. I'm trying to remember. I think it was like the Knicks, the Cavaliers and somebody else who were top three. And I think all three got dislodged.

And then the Pelicans leapt up from whatever, ninth or tenth to get Zion. And immediately it was like, yeah, this is the point of the exercise. This is why you do lottery reform. The point is to try to, if not to disweight teams from tanking, at least remove the incentive to tank. And if you see year after year after year, teams who had one of the three worst records, who then have a mere 14% chance to win it all, so 86% chance that you're not getting number one, if you see that and you see it play out year after year where teams that were seemingly positioned to get the top to the top of the draft are falling, maybe it makes you think twice about tanking.

Unfortunately, like, that hasn't been the case, right? Teams are still like, yeah, you know what? I got nothing going anyway. We're in a tear down. Our team is a disaster. Our fans are already pissed off. I might as well lean into it. 14% chance is still better than eight or six or two, although apparently 1.8 is enough. So it's theoretically going to give teams pause about tanking because there's not an obvious payoff. And this year is another good example that it can backfire on your ass. I think people should broadly be happy about that. It's funny, though, to watch this. If you dial back 10 years, everybody, and by everybody, it was like the public, the media, us, all of us, all the hand-wringing about tanking and the process and the Sixers and all of this was, well, you can't, the league can't do this. You can't just manipulate your way to a top pick. This is bad for the league. You shouldn't be incentivized to lose. So the league addressed it. They reformed the lottery. They changed the odds. And now that we have these new odds, we're teams that are terrible. are falling to the middle of the pack and Washington ends up sixth and Utah ends up fifth. And now it's like hand-wringing over, oh, well, how are they supposed to get better?

Well, this was the point. The whole point was you're not supposed to be able to game the system. And we just saw that vividly again last night. Tough shit, Washington and Utah. You got to find another way. Are you happy with that? Does the basketball gods do good on this, Raja? to share constant communication with them.

Yeah, I mean, listen, I have offended sometimes. But I try to be on the right side of them. But yeah, I agree with Howard on that. Like, you know, that's what it's in place for. You know, I don't know that you'll ever get rid of teams, you know, doing whatever they can to get their 14. Whatever percent chance. But like I like the fact that it's not an automatic you get the number one pick.

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Gambling problem. Call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. All right. Let's talk about something we're not good. We've been pushing this far into the episode. um just coping Jason Tatum guys um

I see Rogers' face his tears are coming down his eyes right now he's really sad Howard I feel like we're in mourning right now I was watching this at Chase Center last night it was a great game by the way

Nick Celtics we'll probably get to that in a minute but and Tatum was fantastic and it just seemed you knew something was wrong the way he went down and we haven't gotten the official news, but we all know what it is. Like, let's be real.

It's sad because, you know, Tatum is, what, 28, 27, something like that, has, theoretically has so much of his career ahead of him. And then, on top of that, you think about the Celtics who are going into, where I was already going into an uncertain offseason, and whether they were going to break the bread to be able to pay for this roster. And now this injury puts their whole shit in flux. First of all, Howard and Raja,

how did you feel when you saw it? What was the immediate things that came to your mind? I'll start with Howard. And where do the Celtics go from here? Man, we all know because, you know, I mean, Raja, you've been in the game a long time, and Logan, I've been watching the game a long time. Like, everybody who's a basketball fan knows, the guy goes down on a non-contact injury,

the way he went down and immediately grabbing at that part of your leg, you're immediately thinking Achilles and your heart sinks. Like, just awful. And he was having a fucking awesome game besides. Like, he was, like, that was, I know they still had a hole to climb out of once again at that point, but, you know, potentially one of those career-defining moments where if he had led them back, tied up the series with just a dominant performance, then we'd be talking about that game for a long time.

And so instead to go down with the Achilles, or excuse me, with the injury that would appear to be in Achilles, we'll find out maybe even while we're still recording here. But it's just, it's awful. It's awful first and foremost for Jason Tatum for his career and just for him individually. It's heartbreaking. That was the thing that really struck me, guys. Like, whatever the injury turns out to be, he knew. He knew it was bad immediately. You saw it in his face, in the emotions, whether it was.

there's literally just pain or just the emotional pain and the realization that like this is it, I'm done. Like this, I'm done for this series in this postseason probably. And if it's an Achilles, it's a long road back. You know, it's too soon to start talking about the,

you know, what happens next for him physically. But like, Kevin Durant was much older when he tore his Achilles and Kevin Durant has had the best comeback from an Achilles we've seen in the history of the game at a much later stage of his career. So I think that that bodes well for Tatum if it's an Achilles. And I hate to assume it, but like it just looks and feels like it's going to be.

And then the Celtics, like, Logan, you noted it. Like, you know, Bobby Marks has said our friend over to ESPN, like they're on pace for, I think, like a $500 million payroll and payroll plus luxury taxes. And then the second apron stuff and all the limitations that puts on a team. You've got an ownership change coming where the Celtics going to be committed to this group long term anyway. way, given all of the consequences of that. I think if they won a championship, it's almost, you're obligated to run it back, no matter what it costs you and no matter what the second apron implications are. But if you're not winning a championship, everything's back on the table.

And you also have the short-term fact of, well, if Tatum is going to miss at least a season, Brown, you know, if before we were thinking about, well, maybe we have to peel off a Derek White or a Drew Holiday, well, now you need them both. Now you need everybody. But you still have a payroll issue to deal with. And because of the second apron and repeater tax issues, it's harder to add talent. So you can't even, like, it'll be really hard just to pick up a minimum salaried guy just to like backfill if you have any more injuries. So they're in a really, really, really, really tough spot if this is as bad as we all believe.

It's probably. From a human element, though, Rajah, like, as a hooper to hooper, what did you feel when you saw? Because like, everybody that I've talked to that have toured in their Achilles, it's not a pain necessarily thing. It's more of a realization when you tear it because your shit goes numb. You're just on the floor like, we've seen people who tear their Achilles. Dame this season. I was in the building when Durant tore his.

It was just a realization of just on the floor. It felt like Tatum in the moment knew what it was. And that's, that elicited the emotional reaction of like, fuck, the mountain he has to climb. But Hooper to Hooper, what did you think of what, when you saw what happened to him? Yeah, if I'm going to be honest, I'm going to be very honest with you. Like, I was sitting there with Ty and my wife and we were watching. And when the play happens, you see the turnover and then the ball starts going the other way, right? Yeah. So then you get the dunk and then they pan back to Jason Tatum and he's writhing like in pain or would appear to be.

And so our first reaction or my first reaction is what it always is when I see someone doing that. It's like, what the fuck, man? It can't be that bad because like that's like a rule in our house. Like you can like it or you don't have to. But like, you know, I don't want, you know, it's just I don't like the kids doing that. Like get your ass up. Let's go. Man, hobble off to the side.

Like, we'll figure it out. That's just our thing. But then I saw like something in his, in his, you know, palms in his face. And I was like, let me rewind this real quick. Before they even, I took it back. And as soon as I saw the move, when he took the negative step to go forward, my heart just sunk. I was like, oh, shit, he just, he just potentially tore that Achilles. And, you know, then it did dawn on me that that reaction was probably less about, you know, pain and more about just the, your, you know, basketball mortality flashing before your eyes.

And that's what happens when you have an injury. that. Whether or not Kevin Durant has come back from it, you know, miraculously or not. When you sustain an injury like that, everything flashes before your eyes. Like, the first thought isn't, oh, I'll be back from this in a year and a half. No, that's not what goes to your mind. And so, you know, as a Hooper, I just felt, I felt awful for him. Just as, not just a Hooper man from anybody, you know, playing sports and stuff like that, those Achilles, while I tend to agree with Howard much younger than Kevin Durant, Kevin Durant, very, very, very, very, very, similar in terms of, you know, what they, what they kind of want to do. Like, his game isn't

predicated on explosion and, and he's kind of a glider. He's long. He's athletic. But he's, it's not like it's a ferocious like John Morant or Derek Rose type of like pop to his game. So those type of guys, I think, would have a much better chance of coming back and being exactly what they were. But nothing is, nothing is, is guaranteed when you're trying to recover from injury. Like nothing's guaranteed. And so for all of those reasons, you just, your heart broke, you know, for him, for the, for the Celtics, it was just terrible. And also like in rehab, it's not about just the injury recovery. It's the mental stuff, right? Like, yeah. I mean, I think about even with Clay and KD, it's the, they go to, you go to dark places, right? Like, when

you're alone and you get the game taken away from you. Like, and I think that not only did Tate and I'm, I don't know him and stuff like that, but I can imagine like you said, you see your basketball mortality, but like you see they were, they were on a way to maybe they tied a series up. You know, they're still on a run. Yeah, no, yeah, no doubt. You know, they weren't going to tie it up. They weren't going to tie it up. Okay, okay, we'll talk about the Knicks in the second, the game itself. I'm just talking about what could go through his mind.

Yeah, I got you. You know, like I'm cooking. we could, you know, still go on a run. We're still defending this title. There's so many ramifications to this, right? And it's just going to be tough to get back. And also, like Howard said, and we just alluded to, the South's could look completely different by the time he gets back.

They have to push pause. They have to push. No, no, no. This isn't a year. On their chances to win something, they push paws for two years. Absolutely. Yeah. It's not a year.

It's not a year. A year is when he comes back. He's two years away from, like, He's probably out all of next season. That's not even hyperbole. He could probably just erase all next season. For sure. Yeah.

I mean, if, if, if, if, if it's the Achilles, right? If it is. We still need to at least kind of qualify them. For sure. I don't know. I always, I'm thinking about all the other players that are here. And I promise we'll get to the next at some point, orange and blue skies, baby, we see you.

Anyways, there's also the Howard, the Jalen Brown of it all, right? where he is this guy, even though that he has said publicly, like, I'm great being alongside Tatum, and I'm not trying to bark controversy. What I'm trying to say is he is now getting, in essence, a chance at what he has always said behind the scenes, which is now this is his team for, like Roger said, at least a year and a half, two years. How big of a step is this for him and how big of an opportunity is it for him? Huge. And yeah, I mean, you said it, Logan, going back, I don't know, three, four years. there have always been like these rumblings like, you know, again, the Gossipy League.

And it's not that people were trying to break up Brown and Tatum and all this stuff. It's like there was legitimately, you know, conversations happening. What's that? Tension. Yeah. I don't even want to say tension. There was a very strong, you would say it's a strong vibe or that it was actually people heard things directly or indirectly from Jalen Brown or his people about the fact that

Jalen Brown really saw himself as the kind of guy who could. be a number one and not the co-star. And was that going to lead to an eventual move by him? Kind of like we saw when Kyrie decided, you know what, I'm tired of being LeBron's sidekick. Kyrie decided he wanted to go stake out his own territory in Boston. Didn't work out so well. But that happens sometimes. There's nothing wrong with it.

This is not casting aspersions. The idea that Jalen Brown might have wanted his own team and to see himself as a true number one is not crazy. When you have that kind of talent, that's how you're supposed to see yourself. So there's no crime in that. But that had been a rumbling across the league for a while. It had kind of quieted down the last couple of years, making the finals helps, winning the championship helps. Not for nothing.

He also was the finals MVP and the Eastern Conference Finals MVP, which was then held against Tatum in a very strange way by some people, which I thought was stupid. But I think what it demonstrated was not only are both of these guys wired to be able to be very gracious co-stars with each other. This is not Shaq and Kobe. These guys, like, Tatum and Brown could and probably should be together for the rest of their careers, the rest of their primes. I think we're past whatever tension points there may or may not have been and the speculation around that. And now Brown has shown himself to be able to be effectively like the lead guy at the highest leverage points of the season, conference finals and finals. Now that said, he had Tatum on the court with him to carry a lot of the load too. So it's a big deal.

difference when you don't have another star next to you. And tomorrow night, it's going to be the first day of how does the Celtics team look as a Jalen Brown-centric operation, right? Because that's what it, again, assuming this injury is what we think it is. For the foreseeable future, their fate is tied to Jalen Brown. And that does mean a higher usage rate. It does mean more responsibility. It does mean taking on more. And not just shooting and scoring. It also means playmaking and being a great leader. And that is, that is absolutely clearly his role now in Tatum's absence. Look, we shouldn't write them off entirely. This is a defending champion that won in part because of their incredible talent and depth

going all the way down to like seventh, eighth man, right? They now have Jalen Brown plus all those guys still, right? Like the Knicks absolutely should and probably will win this series. But there's an opportunity here for Jalen Brown, Derek White, Drew Holiday, Al Horford, to the rest of this group to, you know, to write history in a different way. Let's see if it happens. What intrigues you about that, that, that, that, the space that Jalen is in right now, Roger.

Well, I mean, you know, I look, everyone, not everyone, but when you are that good of a player, and I would put Jalen Brown in that category, you, you, you, you, look, everyone, not everyone, but when you, You will always harbor somewhere deep down in you the feeling if you're not provided the opportunity. What if I had my own team? Like those thoughts, you can't help but have those thoughts. Even if you are a gracious, you know, teammate and you guys can share that spotlight, you and Jason Tatum. There's always a piece of you. And probably with Jason Tatum too.

Like, you know, this is our fate and we love each other and we're going to work together. But man, what if? Like, what would it look like if it was my own? And we're about to find out for a while. I would, I would, I think Jason, Jalen Brown's awesome. I think he's fully capable. It is a very, very different animal when you are out there and the game plans are solely for you. Now, I know he's had, he's had stretches in his career, make no mistakes, where he was the focus of a game plan.

But in most of those instances, you still had another game plan that had to deal with Jason Tatum. that way because both of them are so good, you know, off the bounce and never in a playoff context either. We both know there's a difference in that, right? Yeah, they can really drill down on you in that way, especially in the playoffs. So look, he's a fantastic player. I don't know that he will or won't, but I'm fascinated to see it because make no mistakes, even if he is a great, you know, teammate. Like, there's a part of him that has always wondered and probably would always wonder, like, what it would look like if it was his. Yeah.

Now, Raja. Last time we were on this program, you got up in here and said that Knicks were cooked. I did not say that. And the Celtics can take control of the series and you believe in the Celtics. Well, I definitely did not say that. What I did say was I was worried for the Knicks

and rightfully so, until Jason Tatum got hot. And then he shot them right out of the game. Like everybody, I see everybody today talking about how great of a game he fucking had. And I feel terrible saying this because on the heels of the injury and everything like that. But I was saying it while it was happening. I almost put my little fingers out to tweet it.

Like he's going to shoot them out of the fucking game. This has just become him coming down the court looking for Carl Anthony Towns in a pick and roll and shooting a fucking three. It shot him right out of the game. New York was in trouble. Now, I'm not taking anything away from the brilliant performance that was Jalen Brunson and his supporting cast because they were awesome. They did everything they were supposed to do. They took it. but they were,

for everything I said on the last pot, it was looking just like that. And then he got hot. And it was the worst thing that could have happened. Howard, Howard, I mean, Roger said this in a chat.

Rogers is very, he's participating a lot more in the group chats. It's definitely playoff time. I will say that. But, but, but, next to the finals,

that's what, that's what, that's what, that's what, uh, that's what, uh, that's what, uh, that's what, uh,

Roger's saying right now. What do you think? What's up with the, how are the Knicks feeling? What is the vibes in New York? What's going on there? How do they feel about this team? And do you think that they really do have a very unlikely run in them? Because just like a month ago, we were like, there's no way that the Knicks are going to get this far.

They're going to lose to the Celtics at some point. And that's going to be that. I mean, a month ago, Knicks fans themselves were probably saying that. Like it was always. And Cliff, by the way, and Cliff too, by the way. And Cliff. No, it's been a really weird, kind of just, like, the emotional journey for Nix fans for New York over the last 12 months, because the team that went through the playoffs last spring was beloved, right? Gutty, resilient, gritty, a guy goes down, somebody else pops up and gets 20 points and 10, whatever.

Like, they just kept coming at you until they finally ran out of bodies and ran out of bodies and ran out of. of gas and lost game seven at home to the Pacers. And it was, man, if they had just had one more healthy body, they might have been in the conference finals against Boston. And then you lose a lot of that grit when Hartnstein leaves for Oklahoma. And you lose some of it when Devencenzo gets thrown into the Randall trade for Kat. Kat's not exactly known as being Mr. Grit. Trade from Mikhail Bridges. Also not exactly Mr. Grit. And I think a lot of the season, Knicks fans were sitting there going like, yeah, this team is really good, but I don't see how we're getting past Boston. Like that was, everybody I knew as a Knicks fan was like, I hope we can beat Boston.

I don't, I'm not sure we can beat Boston. And I'm not sure I love this team quite as much as I love the one that went down to the playoffs last year because those guys were a lot of fun. And suddenly, like, this team is embodying all that again. Like, like, you know, we're never going to confuse Kat with, I don't know, Dennis Rodman or something. Like, he's, he's, he's always going to be this highly skilled scoring first versatile big man who is not going to protect the rim, he's not going to block shots, he's not going to throw his body in the way, but like he's come up with some really big defensive moments in this, this playoff run. They look and are playing like and are resilient like last year's team again.

And a ton of credit to Brunson and Hart, who still set the tone for all that, to Tibbs, of course, because that's how he's built and the tone he sets. you still can't do it without some things going your way, but that's every team. Like, there's always going to be some luck. And if anybody's going to chalk this one up to just like, oh, well, the Celtics lost Tate, I'm like, they're probably going to win that game and go up three one anyway. And like, yeah, could the Celtics at full strength have rattled off the next three wins and still won the series?

Maybe. But whatever, like the injuries happen every postseason. The Knicks have earned this. That they're going to the conference finals almost certainly is, I think, beyond the dreams of most Knicks fans certainly as of a few weeks ago, a month ago, a couple months ago, they didn't think that this was going to happen. And then it's against a Pacer's team likely. Again, we don't want to ride off the Cavs before it's time, but it's certainly looking like a Pacers, Knicks rematch at this time in the conference finals. Like, and two teams that are just like,

that they're all grit. Like, I know the Paces of this high powered offense and everything, but like the Pacers are like, look at the way that team has been just like, busting up the calves and look at the swagger they play with and look at like freaking knee smith getting into guys and math and matherin like stern it up like uh this could be an incredible series we're way ahead of ourselves now but nick's pacers in the conference finals uh we're going to get all the 90s throwbacks we get all the spike lee reggie miller stuff dude can't fucking wait grew up grew up on nick's pacers in the playoffs man yes baby yeah Yeah.

No, man. Also, not for nothing, man. The garden has been fucking electric. You got Timothy Chalemay. You got our friend Ben. You got fucking Tracy Morgan. We got Jordan Woods and Kylie Jenner being friends again. Let's fucking go, man.

Let's go. Y'all don't get that. Y'all not in these, these streets. But we got Cardi B and Stefan Diggs, bro. We got it just lit out of this motherfucker, bro. But let's go back to the encore stuff because the off-court stuff. But let's go back to the encore stuff. Roger, what have you seen from the Nick?

down the stretch because it really felt like in game four, they really controlled the game from the standpoint. You referenced Tatum before. I know that he shot them out of the game, but it also felt like the Knicks were in control of this game, offensive and defensively, throughout the night. What have you seen from them and how have they evolved throughout this series? Well, they took a good punch.

Derek White came out really hot. And honestly, in that first quarter, they could have got their doors blown off, but they hung in there and they kept hooping. And when they did that, I knew this was going to be a game. This was going to be one of those ones that goes down to four or five minutes left in the game. And now we're talking about who can execute better down the stretch. I just want to clarify when I say Jason Tatum shot him out of the game.

I mean, he made some of those shots. And he had 42. He made some huge shots. But you have to when you've stopped the ball moving in the way that he did. So, like, you got to make, you got to score 50 then because the ball stopped moving, right? It was just him handling it, just searching for that pick and roll, and then you're going to shoot that deep jumper. What I saw from the Knicks was Brunson applied more pressure. Brunson did the same thing.

They shot about the same amount of shots. I mean, he had 39. You know, the ball was in his hands a lot. But, you know, Ty again, was sitting next to me. and there was a play late in the game and we had watched Tatum a few times. And Brunson had it on the right wing maybe, if you will. And he was like tween, tween, tween.

And, you know, you could tell he was setting his man up. And then he quickly, like, laced it to the corner real quick and somebody hit a three. And Ty said to me, he's like, yeah, I like that because he was looking to cook. He was like, but he realized he had taken too many dribbles. And so he just sprayed it. And he was doing that better than Tatum.

was doing it. He was getting to his bag, getting his shots, because he's the guy that makes that go, but also figuring out ways if it was, if it was two ball monopolizing to just get off of it and give someone else a quick opportunity. Those guys, when they had those opportunities, made the most of them.

Tough shots. You know, dudes were making tough knockdown shots. An Anobie. Damn, why? I get all these names mixed up, man. But it's Villanova teammate. Oh, Miles Bridges. Yeah, bridges on those on those tough mechanical Fade and like those guys made the most of those opportunities

And then you know you have Josh Hart And those guys just digging out extra possessions Digging out loose balls like doing what they do to supplement it And so look that It wasn't all on Tatum but but the Celtics and Tatum When Tatum just started saying when Tatum got hot All ball movement stop It became that and the rest of those guys

didn't, they didn't play off of that well. Maybe that's a Tatum issue. Maybe that's the them issue. But the combination of the two was, they became really stagnant and one shot at the rim and were out, where the Knicks became an attack mode. And here's the other part. Brunson, for, it's really crazy for the stature,

the size, and the athleticism, you'd give all of those to Jason Tatum, right? Absolutely. You'd give all of those. He checks every one of those boxes in a way that Jason Tatum doesn't check. But Jaylen Brunson was making his money in the paint as much as he was making it at the three point line. And that collapses the defense, that forces rotations, that allows a body defensively

to have to react to that, which gives his man on offense an opportunity to swoop in an offensive rebound. And Jason Tata wasn't putting any pressure on their defense like that. He was just making phenomenal 25 to 30 foot shots. Well, we'll give you that shit. It's cool, especially a Knicks type of defense who predicates itself on physicality, on you're not going to get any easy buckets, and you're going to have to. earn this shit. If you're doing stepbacks,

who gives his shit? Those are hard shots to make. Logan, I swear, as soon as he got hot, as soon as he got hot, I looked and I said, this is going to be a problem. Because this is what they're going to do. Now he's hot, and this is the shot he's going to live with for the rest of the night. Where the Knicks just kept hooping

at your rim on top of the rim, Middy, make you work defensive. Like, they just had a variety of offense that allowed everybody to get involved. And they executed better down the stretch. They do that, though. This is what we said, if you get into a street fight with them and you take it down into the fourth quarter late and it's about who's going to close better and who's going to operate in the clutch better,

they're going to beat you. That's the thing. I told you this Roger last episode and that's my thing with the Celtics, man. They're just too finesse. And they are always susceptible to getting punched in the face and not necessarily responding. And one thing we know about the Knicks, they're going to punch you in the face multiple times. No.

They are ready for the fade. the Knicks did everything they were supposed to do and all of those guys. I mean, Brunson had 39. I'm not looking at the stats. But I think everybody else in a starting lineup had over 20 except for Josh Hart. They were just, they were hooping. I'm giving them. And Josh Hart used them fouls too, didn't he used the fucking fouls.

That was his stats for the night. I'm still telling you there was an avenue before, before Tatum got hot and they stopped moving the ball, there was an avenue for this to be two, two, going back to Boston. It was as clear as day. It was sitting right in front of anybody who knows hoops. It was right there. Nix fans couldn't see it, but anybody who knows whoops saw it. It was right there, and they just wouldn't take it. How much, what percentage of Roger right now is a Nix fan? Because I know you got a lot of Knicks fans in your family. Are you like 25% right now? Yeah, I'm not a fan of anybody. It's hard for me to be a basketball fan. So I can't, I like the NICs story. I will ride with the Nix.

Yeah, I like them. fan of anybody. Also, shout out to Neftai for making his Papa proud over here saying, you know, they should have just did this, Dad. They should have, what the hell are they doing? Yeah, no, those are good moments, man. I enjoy those. All right.

It's time for a motherfucking mailbag. Cliff, how you doing, buddy? Congrats on the number three pick. Could have been much, much, much, much worse. Man, I'm just happy. I had to challenge Howard's theory on, you know, the debunk, whether

the ping-paw balls with the right way. Although Howard was in a room, so, you know, I got to respect that, OG. I got to respect it. But let's get to this first question here. This is from Kevin Nye, depressed Cavs fan, Logan, Roger, Howard, Cliff, Victoria, and all. First time, long time. As a lifelong Cleveland sports fan, my mind is headed to a dark, albeit quite familiar place. Assuming the Cavs loot tonight, May 13th, what the hell are the Cavs options for getting better and legitimately competing for a title?

I know that Mobley and Garland are super young and most likely continue to get better, but it seems kind of silly to run it back with the team that potentially hasn't made it past the second round in three years, especially when you consider how expensive this team is about to become and how they might lose key role players like Todd Jerome, Dean Wade, and Sam Merrill because of the salary cap this summer. Is it insane to start thinking about the Cavs could get for Arlen, or Alan, I'm sorry, Allen and Garland and hoping they were tool around Mitchell and Mobley? Did I play a round to see if trading Garland and Strews for Janus and the NBA trade machine

this morning? Possibly. Am I overreacting? Do I need to be more patient and enjoy the ride? Thank you guys for providing the most immaculate dancer all season long. Thanks. Kev from Hudson Valley. LeBron James.

What age of LeBron James? LeBron James. This older, this version? Yeah, man. I heard it somewhere. Somebody said it. I was listening to the radio yesterday. They were like, he comes back and takes the minimum and does it.

Everybody wins. Everybody wins. Does he bring Brony? He asked to. I mean, Bronny got to play. Like, Brian's not fucking around with that. Like, Brody's got to play. Roger, are you saying the league fix something?

What's going on here? Whoa. I said, what? Huh? What? This sounds, you know, honestly, this sounds like a Howard question to answer. I just say, you know, I don't know. No, I'm sure.

Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. Just because what are you seeing in this series where, like, if you've got a 64 win team with those four guys and suddenly they're just like completely imploding, like, and I know there's some injuries involved here too, but still, like, what are you seeing? This is a tough one. This is a really tough one.

because of the injuries and the the the the the wiggle room that that gives you in that mental space of like maybe we were like it's it's tough and you were so good and you were prolific through a regular season it's really tough um I would bet that they don't make a move to do anything I think that they would run it back I would not mind exploring garland and and uh someone um I don't I like Mowgli. But no, I don't like, I like Mowgli. Like I would explore some things.

I would try my best to hold on to like the three of them being Mowgli, Allen and, and Donovan Mitchell, whether that's possible or not. I don't know. What do I get back if I give up Mowbly or, yeah, I don't know. My names are terrible. But I think I would probably explore making a deal. I think they stay put, though, Howard. So the thing is, from the moment that they got, that they traded for Donovan Mitchell, and from the moment it was clear that, like, the young guys, you know, Me, Mobley and Garland

were definitely on the trajectory that you hoped they'd be on, which is to become stars. Like, you can't have three max players. Plus, Jared Allen, I think he's sub-max, but he's still making a lot. The clock is ticking on them, just as it was ticking on the Timberwolves and why they had to trade cat, just as it's ticking on the Celtics, as we have already discussed. this CBA makes it incredibly difficult to keep a bunch of high-level talent together. It's the whole point of it. It's what the league wants.

They want talent distributed across the league. That's how we get this incredible era of parity. And so the clock is ticking on the Cavaliers, even if they were up in this series, even if they went to the finals, the clock is ticking from a financial standpoint. And they know that. Kobe Altman and those guys are really smart. They know that. They know that their best case scenario is,

to win while you can still do it without luxury tax, repeater tax, second apron, all that kicking in. Can you, now if you lose, ownership's always going to be much less willing to pay luxury taxes anyway. And also, you have to then reconsider. Well, if we don't have the right combination and we're going to start getting hamstrung by second apron limitations, maybe we should proactively get out of that before we have to put ourselves in that position. So losing maybe clarifies it or speeds things up. I hate to say that. And then it's difficult too, right?

Like, all right, Donovan Mitchell is the bigger of the two stars in the back court, but he's also the older of the two. Garland is awesome. And I'd be really reluctant to give up on him. Evan Mobley is showing signs of being incredibly awesome and a two-way player and is a really rare kind of commodity, the size and the length and the athleticism and everything, all that he can do. but you know something's got to give you i don't think you can keep all four for for the next three four five years so at some point you got to peel somebody off and figure out what the right you know the right return on that is the better return and yeah now that you're down in a series three one after winning a 64 after winning 64 games and everything else like you do have to consider

whether the best upside is for the post post season is is a different combination I don't know. It's tough. I wish I could tell our listener something more uplifting and positive than that. But the good news is this. You had a team that was good enough to win 64 games with four really, really good players. And even if you have to retool, it's probably only one of them going out the door and you're still going to have the other three and you're going to get some good stuff back. Like you're in great shape regardless. That's the upside. No doubt. I'll just say this again. The one thing I do know is that those injuries, they make it really difficult because they cloud they just it makes it hard to see exactly what's going on if you need it and out if you wanted it out anyone in the room you could be like yeah but um

much more clearer view of that if you were playing healthy all right next question uh this is from ziyadh amad parker hi guys you are all awesome the intro is an all-time favorite of mine anyways my question is about yannis what position does he play going forward and give me the three best teams for him if he gets traded from the bucks con regards what what position does he play like what does he play on the floor yeah i guess yeah that's what he said what position plays whatever the hell position he wants to play he's fucking yonis adacumbo he plays he plays he plays he plays janice ball it doesn't matter what he's going to do he's going to have the ball in his head he's going to play point sometimes you're going to play in the post like he's going to do whatever the hell he wants

to do um the real question is the three best teams though i think he just added that in there for show um Houston obviously is in there if they can you know with their young core they're not going to trade I'm in obviously but Houston seems like a really intriguing place um especially they can get Jalen Green out of there uh San Antonio maybe they have assets but I don't think they I don't know if they can make a deal consider because they just have a lot of players on rookie deals so I don't even know how they can even get that return you got some guys making like close to 20 mil okay They can make a shake.

Yeah. Okay, so I would say Houston, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, who is, who might not get out of this series, as a front court guy and Chet Holmgren that is catting off in the clutch, they could be a player too. They have a whole bunch of picks. They have a whole bunch of assets that they can give Milwaukee. So those three, I would say San Antonio, Houston, and Oklahoma City.

Go ahead, Howard. I think that that's the right list. I think what's really gotten interesting here is that a team like San Antonio now has that number two overall pick to play with, too, in any potential trades. And when I, you know, I was thinking about this earlier today, like, if you're the Rockets and you go into a Janus trade discussion, a men's off the table. You know, you can have Jalen Green, you can have Shang-Goon even. can have Tari East and whatever, but amends off the table. Now that the Spurs have this new trade ship, the Bucks are in a great position to be able to play teams off each other too because they're like, oh, well, San Antonio is going to give us the number two picking the draft and

Stefan Castle. You know what I mean? Like it's, it changes the marketplace a little bit. And this is a theoretical marketplace, right? We are assuming who's going to be in pursuit. We're assuming that Yannis has asked out. We're assuming that the Bucks are willing to do it. We're assuming that Yonis has not already- He's slow pushing it, though. He's slow pushing it. He is, he is, but like, a lot of stuff still has to happen. And some of the things that we don't know for sure are, is Janus going to say, but only these three teams? Or, you know, and what does Milwaukee want out of a deal too?

Because even once Yonis provides a list, if he provides a list, then Milwaukee, it's like, does Milwaukee want players who can keep them afloat right now so they don't bottom out? Because they have no incentive to tank. They don't have their picks. So if they want players, that's different because there are teams that only have players to deal and don't have picks to deal. there are other teams that could just give you a shit ton of picks. Like the nets have a lot of picks they could trade the bucks.

But if the bucks fall off a cliff and they're sending lottery picks to everywhere across the league because they don't have control over their picks for the next three, four years, that's kind of painful. So, like, it's, we don't know what Milwaukee wants. We don't know where Yonis wants to go. And if that is going to limit how, you know, the negotiation process. So, but yeah, Houston, for sure, San Antonio, for sure. You know, I proposed Atlanta when we did this exercise a week or two ago at the ringer.com. The Hawks have interesting pieces they can move. But I don't know that's too many others, right? Like people are going to throw out the Lakers. The Lakers can't make that deal. I don't think the Clippers can make that deal. I don't think the Warriors can make that deal.

The Knicks theoretically could, but they don't have picks to add to the players. The Nets could, but they have more picks than players. and if you traded the players, then what's Yonis playing with? If Claxton and Cam Johnson aren't there anymore. So I don't think it's a very long list. I don't think the Nets have the talent requisite to like, give you honest what he wants anyway. No, if the whole point of asking out of,

if Yonis has gotten to the point where it's like, I got to get out of here because we don't have a championship window anymore, you can't go to a team that also does not have a championship window and doesn't have the requisite supporting players unless they have another path to get there quickly. Yeah. There's no time. What about Wildcard?

I'm just throwing this out there. I don't even know. Toronto, maybe? I don't even know. Do they have the, they only have Scotty Barnes. They have the same thing. They have the talent gap as well.

Like they're not. You're getting like R.J. Barrett, Emmanuel, quickly. And I don't know. Because you're not going to, yeah, Ingram. Like, you don't want to send out Scotty Barnes in that deal, right? Yeah. Although I'm not as high on Scotty Barnes as a lot of people. And if they were off of him, like, does Janus plus all the guys who are left over, is that good enough?

I don't know. No, probably not. Okay. Last question. Last question. But, and be for yonest, who says no? Real quick. The Bucks.

Bye. And beating that number three pick for Yonis, who says no. This is title, Playoff Scars. This is from Howard Beck's burner count, Doug Beck. Still no relation to Howard, but a big. fan. Your colleague Chris Vernon loves to talk about young teams needing playoff scars. I believe the Thunder got some scars last year and then got one early this season by getting blown out by the Bucks in the Emmerits Cup. We saw a pretty crazy leap in the playoffs for the Pacers last year after

they made the in season tournament final. They looked to me making a return trip this year. Do we think the Emirates Cup scars are actually helping younger teams in the playoffs, helping them accelerate their learning curve? Thanks, Doug, aka Howard. I think, yo, I think it helped the, based on where the paces were at that time, I definitely think the Cup helped them. I think that the, the OKC just, they just got Vegas. They didn't, I don't think you put any more stock into that, that, that cup than that. But I do think that the Cup can be good for a young team up and coming, like, no one was, last year, no one was expected in Indiana to go to the Post.

season before that cup. And I think it gave them really good experience in terms of like games that matter to a certain set and playing in front of a large audience because I don't even think they had national television games

going up before that. And it kind of just brought them to a national stage and taught them how to win on a national stage very early and showed the world that, yo, we're a factor here. But okay, see,

I don't think it really had any effect on them whatsoever. I think that they got Vegas. As president As president of the NBA Cup doesn't matter club, I'm not going to put a ton of stock in battle scars from a game in mid-December that meant nothing. But I do think that the attention paid to those games,

the way that they're marketed, the way that it's built up, the hype machine creates an atmosphere that makes it feel bigger. So therefore, emotionally it is bigger. So it's not nothing, you know. Are they going to even have it next year? Have they even made a decision on that or where it's going to be? Like, they just felt like they've given up on it after two years.

I don't think they've given up on it. They've given up on All-Star weekend. They're going to, like, trash the whole thing and start from scratch again, I think. But, like, I don't know. No, I think the NBA Cup is here for a while, at least and probably to stay. But, no, I mean, I think the more important battle scars are the ones you get at times like now. Like if the Thunder lose this series, they'll walk away, feeling something, hopefully learning something. if they win this series,

like these are the ones that matter. Like having to beat a team four out of seven times in the spring is just different. Whatever stock we want to place in the cup, it's just different in the spring. Thoughts, Roger? Nope. Okay.

Retweet. Do we have another question? Is that it? No, that was it. Yeah, that was the last one from How was Burner account. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I set myself up a cup question

just so I could crap lines. Just so you could go on the half on the cup. I love it. threw the al-A-oop to himself. All right. I learned that from Jamal Crawford. Hey. Hey, it's not enough.

All right, anyway, that has been another edition of Real Ones. Rogers checked out. Howard is kind of still here. I'm very tired. That was Real Onesmailbag at gmail.com. Real onesmail back at gmail.com. Real ones mailbag at gmail.com. We do this every single time that me, Howard, and Ross.

are on the program together. So you never know when that's going to happen. Did you just Howard Schnellenberger? Did you just program it? I did. Programmed it. All day, baby. All day, baby.

Rosh, we got scholarship for Tye too, by the way. Hey, no, by the way, hold on real quick before we go. Sorry, real quick. Sorry, real quick. This motherfucker Cliff sits in the group chat about, and this was his recruiting pitch, by the way, from Temple. It was not a recruiting pitch. This is a random incident.

So, anyway, there was an instant. Instagram post, right, from Temple at this, apparently there's a famous McDonald's on campus where motherfuckers be having talent shows and a whole bunch of stuff. And he's like, this is what Ty is going to, the tradition, the tie is going to be a part of. This is what he, we got to get him up in there.

Clifford. As Victoria said, as Victoria on here to validate, I just said absolutely none of that. Logan is lying. Victoria saw it too and said, Barry Ghetto, one out of 10 McDonald's. This is the environment that that Cliff wants tired of go into.

By the way, Roger. Just saying. I'm just saying. I was a big fan of Temple coming out. I'm on record. John Cheney. Don Staley, Legends. Yeah, yeah.

Eddie Jones, Aaron McKee. Eddie is just from around the way. I play golf with Eddie, man. Mark Macon. Everybody. Oh, my God. Macon was so cold. Yeah, I was a big fan.

That's 6 a.m. No, the 6 a.m.'s got me. The 6 a.m.'s got me. All right. Rulamble's Melvick at gmail.com, ladies and gentlemen, we'll see you guys. Me, Howard, and potentially a special guest on Friday. Taping all the shits. Bye. Must you see 21 years and older and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino. And 18 and older and present in D.C.

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