The Ringer NBA Show - Dame Time in the Bubble, the Bright Now Suns, and the Race for the 8-Seed in the West | The Mismatch

Episode Date: August 7, 2020

Verno and KOC discuss the Portland Trail Blazers’ strong push for the playoffs (1:18), the Phoenix Suns’ surprising run (17:54), and the jockeying for seeding in the Western Conference (43:39). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Buffalo Wild Wings. Basketball is finally back. It's time to celebrate the return with Buffalo Wild Wings, where the wings come in 24 sauces and seasonings. When you watch at home, make sure you watch with a wing bundle. Basketball's back, and there's no better way to watch than with Buffalo Wild Wings. Hey, everyone, this is Isaac Lee, intern producer of The Mismatch. Before we get into the show, I just wanted to give a quick heads up.

There are two visual gags in today's show that go completely unexplained. One is that when we started, Verno had on a Memphis Hustle hat, a pair of fluorescent sunglasses, and a fake mustache. That's what Kevin is going to be reacting to in, I don't know, 90 seconds. And the second gag is that halfway through the show, Kev turns on one of those Zoom virtual backgrounds, and it features Devin Booker and DeAndre Aiton, grinning behind Kevin in triumphant glow. So that's what Verna will be reacting to. Anyways, I hope that gave enough context for this audio-only medium. So here we go. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon.

And joining me as he does every Friday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k. Kevin O. Bomber, Kevin O. Candyland. Kevin O. Camer, Kevin O. Conflict. Kevin O. Blaserian. Kevin O'clock. Kevin O'clock. Verno, the listeners can't see you right now. But you have quite the look going on right now. I'm not sure if this is actually that Chris Vernon and I talk to you twice a week. I'm going to tell you something, Kev. I've decided I'm going to change my look. Things have to be switched up. My beloved Grizzlies have a slogan, Memphis versus Uri Buddy that they have used for the bubble basketball. And unfortunately, Uri Buddy is undefeated so far against the Grizzlies as they've

dropped to O and 4. They are hanging on for dear life to their eighth playoff spot in the Western conference with the Blazers getting another win tonight. But there are a bunch of interesting things that have taken place since you and I last spoke, not the least of which is that race in the Western Conference. I think that the general consensus, and you and I spoke about this earlier in the week, is that the Blazers are as fully constituted the best team. That being said,

they needed to go to the last four minutes of the game to beat the Denver Nuggets who were playing nobody, right? So, I mean, this is a struggle for everybody. And I think what we're seeing is the quality of basketball that we saw at the very beginning is dissipating rather quickly. I'm talking about as a game. There are still great individual performances, but team basketball, a little bit more of a struggle simply because this is an inordinate amount of games in a short amount of time. Do you feel the same way? Well, teams are starting to rest, guys.

On Friday, the Utah Jazz are replacing Mitchell. and Gobert and Royce O'Neill. So teams are already starting to rest some of their guys. And tonight we saw with Denver, they rested Yokic and all their starters down the final six, seven minutes of the fourth quarter against Portland. But, you know, Portland still won that game by 10. And, you know, even though Denver did get it close in that third quarter with the run that they had, Damien Lillard still, man, I mean, when you have a guy like him 45 points tonight on 21 shots, some of the shots he made, some of the passes he made,

some of the secondary assists that he racked up that didn't count towards his basic box score stats, but ended up going towards Nurkich or C.J. McCollum or somebody else. Just an extraordinary game from a guy who would have been, would have gotten more most valuable player votes had Portland been in the playoffs. Despite the fact Denver got it close, this is still another game where it further verifies that Portland should be viewed as a three seed, four seed quality opponent for the Lakers in round one, if that's what we end up getting, or for any playing opponent, whether it's Memphis or somebody else, that unfortunately might have

to face them, assuming they keep winning these games. No, you're right, Kevin, earlier in the week, or rather, it was a few weeks ago now, but I remember you writing that article, and we talked about it, that the numbers that you had chronicled with Lillard and Nerkich on the floor together when they had last played, They were like a plus, like it was like 10.4. I remember it was double digit. It was like plus 10.6 points for 100 possessions last season with Nurkich on the floor with Dame. And they were like pretty much even with Dame but without Nurkich.

He changes everything for that team. Okay. So now we take it a consideration that I think the bucks were a plus 11 to end the season. I mean, that's like a team that we were talking about challenging, you know, 65, 70 something wins this year. So we know that history has told us that when Nurkich and Lillard are on the court, that is not like a good team. That is a great team when we're talking about double-digit point differentials. And so we always knew they were going to be dangerous. They've had a very difficult schedule.

Now, they obviously caught a break by not playing a full-strength Nuggets team tonight. But the truth is, you don't know who you're going to be playing down the stretch in these games. because you've got real decisions to make. I think all of these teams have real decisions to make. How much does seeding matter to us? How much does our opponent matter to us? There's no real home court advantage this year. And so how much does it matter who our opponent is?

And how much is it worth for us to play our guys in those kind of a spot for a seating, especially considering that guys may be going down. and you've got a lot of, you've got a lot of minutes in a short amount of time that these teams are playing. I mean, you're talking about eight games in virtually two weeks time that they're going to be playing,

less than two weeks time, actually. Eight games in less than two weeks time. So who knows, it's hard to gauge because we said we didn't really know how the basketball is going to be, but now, obviously, if Denver's full strength and Portland's full strength, Denver is the favorite team.

They have been the better team. they are the better team. They have proven to be that. You say that, but you and I both do agree that Portland at full strength is a three-seed, four-seed quality opponent.

It's not like they're so far off from Denver that like you clearly favor Denver. You might give Denver an edge. Right. But Denver's backups, I don't give an edge at all. You know what I'm saying?

Like, I mean, who they played tonight, that is not indicative of, that's all I'm saying, right? How do we know? And by the way,

Denver still, without Jamal Murray, still without Gary Harris, still without Will Barton. Those are all 30 plus minute per game guys for them. And it's like, okay, so at the beginning of this, we said, wow, this schedule is going to be really tough. But it's hard to gauge if your game is going to be tough because we don't know who is going to be playing in that game. That's what I'm saying.

Sure. And ultimately, this is one of the things you and I touched on before the seating games actually began. Some of these teams are going to end up resting guys. And we're at that stage of the schedule right now where teams are starting to do that. Or whether it's like a little minor injury like LeBron sat tonight for the Lakers, Westbrook sat tonight, for the Rockets, both with what seemed to be very insignificant injuries. But it's the type of thing where, you know, they're resting their guys because they're looking ahead to the postseason already. So they're not taking any chances now, especially

with some of the injuries that we've unfortunately already seen from guys, whether it's Jaron Jackson or Ben Simmons or Jonathan Isaac. Don't want to take any risks. Did you get to watch your Pelicans today? I was just wondering. I watched the game. I watched the game and. Oh, you did?

Their defense is garbage. Why do you call my pelicans? Because you did a freaking 35 minute war in peace style ringer video on them. Yeah, yeah, go check out the restart on the ringers YouTube channel. We did a video this week on BAM at a biop. bio who got plastered by Yonestay. The Kiss of Death.

The Kevin O'Connor video series is the kiss of death. Is Alex Caruso getting crapped on tonight? No, I haven't checked. Cruz isn't fine. You did one on him. I will tell you, I was absolutely shocked.

I know their defense stinks. But to give up 49 in the first quarter out of the gate, I mean, this, you saw Portland tonight play. like a team with their life on the line, right? You saw that. To come out of the gates and give up 49 in a game that you have to have is absolutely despicable.

It truly is. And they got 49 hung on them. They got 140 hung on them in the game by the Sacramento Kings, who that is one of the games that everybody chalked up as part of their easy schedule is, there's a win, there's a win. And it was almost like, and young teams can do this, they look at it and they say, oh, there's a win. And instead, the kings weren't there for it.

And I want to ask you something because they did play Zion 21 minutes. He had 24 points in the game, okay? But you have mentioned this guy before. Have you seen your doctor buddy? Brian Sutterer? I think it's Suterer. I'm not sure. Okay, Souterer.

Dr. Brian. You should just go by Dr. Brian. Dr. Brian. Sports doctor on YouTube has a great YouTube channel. He analyzes injuries across sports. Okay. So I don't know if you had, if anybody's passed on to you, but it was passed on to me earlier tonight,

not knowing that I knew who he was. Because the headline, it was a real GM article, and it said, sports injury doctor says Zion Williamson, quote, in a race against his own body. And it says, Dr. Brian Suterer has become a well-known analyst of sports injuries on YouTube and Twitter and was recently interviewed by Ethan Sherwood Strauss of the Athletic about Zion Williamson. He said, he is in a race against his own body. If you go watch his Duke highlights compared to now, the difference is profound.

In my opinion, his athleticism and conditioning have regressed substantially. He's less explosive, less conditioned, slower on defense, has already had a portion of his meniscus removed from his knee after an injury, and he's still under close monitoring from the medical staff. But this is what really stood out to me. I feel like nobody really wants to call it like we all see it. He's trying to reverse a career trajectory that by the Pelican's own admission is worrisome as evidenced by his reprogramming and scrutinized minutes. He had four months to start making positive strides, and to me he's regressed more. When will he finally start to reverse course? Will it be in time before more substantial fitness concerns and injuries limit him and threaten his career?

Instead of outpacing these risks, I'm worried that Zion is losing the race. Wow. Yeah, Brian and I have DMed back and forth a little bit about that, and I'm glad Ethan interviewed him. Ethan Strauss interviewed Brian for that article on The Athletic. And Brian has been somebody who is calling it like he sees it. And I wrote an article today on the Ringer about Zion's horrific defense. Not an article about Zion. It was about all the West Bubble teams.

And one of the sections was on Zion. And you watch him at Duke last year. You know, he wasn't a perfect defender. He missed rotations. You know, awareness wasn't always there. Like it's the case from most young defenders. but you could always rely on effort from Williamson. And now you never get it from him.

And to me, I look at that, and I'm like, that's because he hasn't played, lack of conditioning. And he's probably, you know, the game's moving faster than his mind is. He needs to catch up. But I do see Brian's point with like the maybe he's not quite as explosive, laterally, especially on the defensive end of the court. He used to really move on defense at Duke. I mean, you saw those highlight plays of him.

like jumping out of like taking two steps from the paint jumping you know and somehow managing to block a three point shot in the corner it was magnificent to see him do that he doesn't do that anymore is that because he's taken an easy because of this reprogramming is that because he's taking it easy because he has such a great offensive demand and he's tired and he's fatigued or is it because he's lost a little bit of athleticism i don't know all i know is that for the pelicans to ever be the team that they can be or need to be, Zion is going to have to get back to that guy we saw at Duke on the defensive end of the court. And to Brian's point, we don't know if he can get there. We don't know. And the Pelicans' actions, as he rightfully outlined, and you quoted him on that,

indicate that they also are cautious and being conservative here with everything that they've done with him. And so whether he gets there or not, I don't know, I can't predict the future here, but there's no doubt that there's long-term concern with his health and conditioning, with his type of body. It is the fascinating thing is it's been four months. So what gives here? I get he was away from the bubble for 13-gates.

He was away from the team too. But that's fine. He still should be healthy. He didn't have access to the same equipment. Yeah, but your body can fall apart in two weeks. What? Who else is? He's falling apart at two weeks.

I'm just saying, like, without this type of, for a guy like him, nearly 300 pounds, a guy who's had weight issues in the past. You know, but I'm saying after four months off, he should be in great shape. That's what I'm saying. But you have four months to ramp up, but then you have two weeks suddenly off

where you're not doing the workouts. We don't know everything that he was doing when he was away there. All we know is he was getting tested every day, but we don't know what his workout regimen was. And so he never played five on, really didn't play five on five. I'm not making excuses here.

All I'm stating is that in two weeks, your body can change a lot. if you're not getting the type of workout you need as a professional athlete. But the bottom line is that we both agree that there is long-term concern here. And Dr. Bryan's quotes, I'm glad he is talking about this because it is something that the Pelicans are clearly concerned about. It's something that we should be clearly concerned about when you're looking at one of the brightest young players in the league right now. It's unfortunate that this is an aspect of him that is going to be part of his story in his young career. and hopefully it goes away,

but there's no guarantee that it will. It could get worse or could get better. I don't know. But for me, what I watch the Pelicans, all I can do is talk about what I know. And what I know is on offense, it doesn't affect him that much, but it is hurting him badly on the defensive end,

and that overall is affecting the Pelicans in a very, very significant way. It won't go away anytime soon unless he's able to get back to the guy he was at Duke and continue getting better from that guy. You know, it's interesting, too, because the team that they played against, they've just been cast aside,

and you look at their schedule the rest of the way, it's still a very difficult task because you have to get up their past two teams, if we're saying the Blazers and the Grizzlies in order to be able to get into a play-in. But that King's team, they got that win against New Orleans today. Their next game's Brooklyn,

so if we assume they win that, now they would have three games left, and much like we were talking about earlier, Houston, who knows, who's playing in that game or if they'll be playing their guys for that game, then they have New Orleans again. It could be a pivotal game right there. And then their last game is the Lakers who there is absolutely no way. I can imagine the Lakers would be running AD and LeBron out there for the last game right before the playoffs start, right?

So, I mean, it's crazy, but all these teams are still kind of in it. with the schedule halfway done, including your former bright future sons who have gone down to the bubble. And their first two games, unbelievably, were by the same exact score, 127 to 125. But they got huge wins to start it off

against the Mavs and then against the Clippers, back to back. And then it was like, okay, is this a flash in the pan? Is this? And they played the Pacers today, who had been very good. with T.J. Warren, and they won that one. And so now they stay undefeated in the bubble. And it's still an extreme long shot, but they're in it. They're in the mix, right? Which is,

I think we thought some of these teams would fall off. I mean, God, I was looking at the standings right before here. Do you know who is it Brooklyn or is it Washington? Who's fallen behind Charlotte? I looked at the standings and the Hornet, the Hornets were ahead of somebody. I'm like, Holy crap. They haven't even played a game, right? Somehow the Hornets have somehow ended up ahead in the standings.

Yeah, the percentage points ahead of the Wizards right now. But as for the Bright Future Sons, I have a gift for you too, Chris. Oh, you do? Oh, my goodness. Look at this. Now, you do you know how long ago you abandoned them?

I don't know how you're getting to claim them. I'm being dead serious. But let's talk about the Bright Future Sons today, though. Devin Booker. What a magnificent player. Oh, listen. What a talent. You have always loved Devin Booker.

There's no doubt about it. But you also love Dragon Bender and Josh Jackson. I was never a big Josh Jackson fan. Okay, fine. Well, let's throw ahead Josh Jackson. I was a Dragon Bender fan. I was not a Josh Jackson fan. The Bright Future Sons were a bunch of shitty young players and Devin Booker.

That's who you loved. Yeah, but sometimes that's all you need is that star. That's all you need is the star player. That's all you need is the star player. And that's what I have in Booker. That's the hardest thing to find. You know this as a Grizzly fan. That's the hardest thing to find is a star.

You guys just got a young one in John Moran. That changes your entire franchise. Devin Booker is a guy that for the last two years was one of the best scorers, most talented scorers in the league. And now he has the supporting cast around him that has elevated him as an overall player, made him a better player overall. Ricky Rubio has changed him by pushing him off ball back to what he did in high school and in college, elevating those strengths.

but really DeAndre Aiton, he's that second guy. The second hardest thing to find is a second star. And DeAndre Aiton is turning into that. I can't get over how good Aiton has gone to the defensive end of the floor. A guy at Arizona who looked utterly lost. Like he didn't know what he was doing on defense. It was confusing. I got confused about what I'm supposed to be looking at when I watched him on defense at Arizona.

But what he did show is at least effort. and that's something that it's translated directly to the NBA. He has fundamentals now. He communicates. He's in the right position. He's actually an enforcer inside. You put that guy behind Devin Booker who's now playing better defense than he ever has in his life because he has support on offense to alleviate his workload with some wings like

McKell Bridges, who's been great on defense. Cam Johnson, who was way better than I expected. I did not like the Cam Johnson pick, but his shooting is for real. his defense has gotten better. Rubio, the veteran he is. Kelly Ubre is not even back yet. Dario Sarich, who I have long loved since he was a prospect overseas

since he was a rookie with the Sixers and is finally in a situation where he can come off the bench and can just run a little bit of offense through him. He can do a little bit facilitating. This is a team with Booker and Aiton turning into what they are. They are not the bright future sons anymore.

They are the bright now sons. Right now, he's barely missing the playoffs. The Bright Now Sons, they're here right now. Oh, really? Right now, sons. They're not going to have a title when they're actually a contender. Then they're just the Phoenix Sons led by Devin Booker and DeAndre. Where are they?

Right now, they're transitioning from Bright Future Sons to Bright Now Sons. And it's wonderful to watch, Chris. I'm excited. I'm asking, where are they right now? They are a game and a half back from Portland for the nine spot, two games back from the Memphis Grizzlies. and they have a percentage point lead over the San Antonio Spurs. So right now they are in the 10 spot ahead of San Antonio, Sacramento, New Orleans,

all the way down to 13 insane. Yeah, well, they also don't have the tiebreaker against the Grizzlies, so they have to beat that outright. Yeah, which is going to be challenging for them. The Grizzlies went three and one against them, unbelievably, considering their future was so bright right now. And their center was on performance-enhancing drugs, allegedly.

No, he had the, that wasn't the PAD, it was the coming up. Yeah, the masking agent. Which isn't necessarily for PEDs. It could have been for like a party drug, you know. That's why you take a masking agent. You have no idea what it was for, though. No, it was the masking agent that you take for PED. I know.

Yeah, or anything. No, you don't take it for weed. They don't even care if you test positive for weed in the NBA. You kidding me? They tell you 50 times to get, your act right before they do anything. They're letting them smoke weed in the bubble. I don't know why you keep bringing his suspension up, Chris.

Like that was so long ago. Who cares? It was this season. Yeah, I know it was. It was last November, December. We're talking right now, though, in August about what the team looks like today. I don't think I brought it up since he's been suspended. I think you bring it up every time we talk about the Sons.

We haven't talked about the Sons in eight months for good reason. They haven't been relevant. And as soon as they are relevant, here come the tweets. Hey, Phoenix fans, remember me? I'm the one that liked you in the media. The fact is this is a team. I know. Devin Booker's the greatest.

Devin Booker's amazing. You're so sour about your competition in the West. You're so sour about these other teams in the West. You're jealous of Zion. You're jealous of Devin. Jealous of Zion? For what? If you did that draft over.

You wish the Memphis Grizzies were getting more attention, which is understandable. You have a Marcus Hustle hat on right now. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. I couldn't be more happy. They're not getting more attention right now because the attention would all be nothing positive. That's true. It has not been.

It has been a disaster for them at this bubble. They lost the first game in overtime. Like in the end, this is when you start to learn. This is a zero-sum business. People can talk about how they love processes so much. Results are what people care about. Nobody cares why the Grizzlies are 0 and 4. They only care that they are 0 and 4.

They had Portland dead to rights and they blew it. Dylan Brooks fouled Demard de Rosa with literally one second left in a game, and they lost that. I mean, the world is a different place for them if they're 2 and 2 versus 0.4. But it is what it is, right? Devin Booker made the shots. And so now you get to give him fallatio on the Ringer NBA show. because he made the shot against the clippers.

He didn't lose the game. He won the game. And so they get the praise. And so in the end, these things can come down to one shot and we can make massive proclamations about any of these teams based upon one shot going down or one shot missing. But the truth is the Grizzlies are 0.

But what does it matter if they win or lose that game in terms of the fact, like you're talking about what they're going to be moving forward or what they're looking like today? The winner loss matters when the season. discussing if they're going to make the postseason around. You wouldn't have talked about it if he misses the shot. You just wouldn't.

Why wouldn't I talk about Devin Booker? Had he not made that shot, he scores 32 points against one of the best defenses in basketball. Making the shot matters when talking about their chances of making the postseason play in tournament. Making that shot against the Clippers has nothing to do with whether this team has a really positive feature or not. Bro, here's the thing, Kevin. You woke up this morning and you're like, if the Grizzlies go 0 and 8, here's what it is. The reason you're talking about the Grizzlies going 0 and 8 is because they lost. Kevin.

You're not going to be talking about the season playing tournament. I'm not talking about if the Grizzlies have a bright future or not. Nobody does that after losses. What don't you understand? You're not sitting there watching that game going, oh, Joe Morant.

It's going to be very great in the future. Like nobody's saying that you're talking about the winner. The winner gets the attention. That's the way this works. Did you click the link? What? What link? What link?

And that you're talking about the tweet for the O, if the Grizzlies is going eight, here's what the pro season. Did you click the link? Yes, you wrote a note on each team and about the bright future. The Grizzly section was about despite all the bad right now, despite the O and 4, despite Jared Jackson getting hurt, it's hard not to look at this team and feel good about what they're going to be.

That's what you say about every team, Kevin. You say the fucking Knicks are good. Like you're not a team in the NBA. There's not a team in the NBA that you don't say something positive. You're just a positive guy. No, that's not true. There's plenty of teams you look at and you're like, this team is probably going to be the dumpster. We've talked about Detroit before.

There's a lot of teams right now, undeniably that you can look at their roster and be like, they're in a good spot for a rebuilding team, undeniably, undeniably. It doesn't mean it's going to work out, but there aren't a lot of teams right now in the league. The teams that I have always said need to blow it up that suck that are doing the wrong things are the teams that are making short-sighted dumb-ass moves. Right now, there aren't a lot of teams that are doing that. So is when those teams start doing that, then I'm going to rip them. Then I'm going to tell them they're doing it wrong.

Then I'm going to say the changes need to be made. But right now, what you have are a lot of teams that should be competing that are competing and teams that should be rebuilding that are rebuilding. And so I'm calling it as I see it. I don't even understand how we're arguing about this. Like, Kevin, you're not tweeting out nice things about the Pelicans today because they fucking lost. That's the way it works.

Like I don't understand why I'm having to argue about the teams that are good are the ones that get everybody talking about. them. And so what I'm saying is the sons have won a couple of games. So this is the opportunity to say all these great things. And if they lose, you're not going to be tweeting out great things about the sons. Okay. Let's move on because I've already made my point there. Move on. My praise for the sons would not change. Had that Devin Booker shot, miracle shot against the clippers went in, would not change. Maybe for you, maybe for others it would. But for me, it doesn't make a difference. It does not make a single difference. I don't know how you want me to get away from it when I'm

looking at them constantly. He's looking at me. I've barely, I don't. I don't. even see you. I see Devin Booker and I see DeAndre Yaten staring at me. That's who I see. Like, how do you want me to get away from this when I'm being, I'm looking at them constantly? You're looking at like blinds or like something hanging on my wall. That's because I have Photoshop skills. You don't. I don't have any Photoshop skills. I don't have any Photoshop skills. Actually, that was made like in preview on Apple, not on Photoshop. It's very, very quickly done within like four minutes. Hey Chris, before we move on, let's hear from today's sponsors.

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So, Philadelphia, we talked about the injuries when we started this off. They have lost Ben Simmons and the news is like really scattered on how bad an injury this is, how long he is going to be out. There's no great like timeline on this. and you look at the Eastern Conference, and right now, clearly those top teams, the Bucks have their place sealed. Toronto pretty much has their sealed.

I mean, it would take something extreme for Toronto to lose their spot, for Boston to lose their spot, and then you've got this group. Indiana has played better than I think we thought they would without a bonus, but you've got Philadelphia, you've got Indiana,

and you've got Miami at four, five, and six. And then there's the precipitous drop off from there. And so let me ask you this. If you are Boston, would you rather play Philadelphia, and let's say Simmons is out. Would you rather play Philadelphia or Indiana? I don't know. I'd want to win games.

I'd want to get this right because their defense right now is trash. to ranking 21st out of 22nd and defensive rating right now of the 22 teams in Disney. I'd want to get that right above all else and that requires playing your starters, playing the guys that are going to be in the postseason and however the seating works itself

out is however it works itself out. Not to mention that Boston also has that game against Memphis where if Memphis loses and falls to the 10 seat or falls from 8 to 9, Boston gets their top six protected first-round draft pick. And so the Celtics organization has incentive to treat that game as a real game and win that game.

So if I'm them, like, I'm not worried about the seating at all. Like, they got to get their defense right before these real games start. Because whether it's Indiana or whether it's Philly or whoever it might be, that's a tough team, despite any guy they might be missing. So I wouldn't really worry about it too much. Do you think Philly is dead without Ben Simmons? I mean, they might be dead with Ben Simmons, for that matter. This team doesn't look dramatically different from all.

I mean, look, I did the video about the Sixers a couple of weeks ago after, Brett Brown talked about the changes that they were going to make to their team. And, I mean, there's subtle differences. We saw the good shake-bilton game he had where he had the go-ahead shot down the end and he played really well on offense that game. But their defense is screwed up, man. There's something off here with the communication. And I can't exactly pinpoint what it is. I'm not sure you can unless you're in that room with the coaches and the players.

But they alluded to it after that first game they played with, I believe they made a mid-game change. and something was off with the communication and the understanding with how to execute. And so for that team, I just think there's a fundamental communication problem. I don't know who this fault that is. Maybe it's Brett Brown. Maybe it's the coaching staff in general. Maybe it's the players for their inability to execute. I don't know.

But the fact is that something's wrong with that team on defense. And again, there's another team, like I just said with Boston, it needs to get it right before the postseason before I can ever take them seriously. And by the way, Ben Simmons, before he got hurt, he was really bad on defense in Orlando after he had what was a tremendous, unbelievable season on defense. And I wonder how much of that was him getting back into conditioning or if that was this overall part of the entire unit being off. But Ben Simmons wasn't totally himself either in the games prior to his unfortunate injury, which we don't have clarity yet on what's going to happen. happened with him, but it's the type of injury that seems like knocks guys out at least for a couple weeks at a minimum. But it's really unfortunate, man, because Philly was a team that I was looking forward to seeing

getting more time together because maybe then we see some of the ideas where Brown talked about starting to actually manifest. So I don't know if we're going to see it now. It's a team you never want to, like, give up on because the talent is the talent, right? They've got Joel Embed and they've got Tobias Harris and they got Ben Simmons. they got Al Horford, they got Josh Richardson. I mean, they should be a lot better than they are. Sixers fans don't want Al Horford anymore. I know, but they should be a lot better than they are.

I think that's how everybody feels when they see the roster and the collected talent. And I'm fascinated with what you say about Boston and being kind of down on them. They've not had a lot of Kemba. He's played very sparingly. Kemma looks good, though. And by the way, Kemba said on our new podcast with C.C. Sabavi and Ryan Ruko, that his knee is feeling good. And, you know, this is something that was a problem from him.

And he's saying it, but it also looks like the knee is good for him. He looks bouncy. He looks agile. He's getting to the rim. He's, look, has burst. Kemba looks like he's back to being himself. So that's a real positive sign for Boston. There's just something awful with their defense, too, that needs to get resolved, again, before the postseason.

But I was still high on Boston if they fixed the D. Good Hayward flashes. Tatum looked bad. The box, Tatum looked bad out the box against bucks, but then he got it going again. Yeah. Right. And so, I don't know. I mean, do you, all right, here's the best question.

So we have talked all season, how we, you and I have both agreed. There is a pretty big divide or pretty big space between whoever you like third in the West and the L.A. teams, right? They are prohibited favorites over, and you take your pick. You can like Denver. You can like Utah. You can like Houston. you can like okay see whoever but there's a big divide as this now has played out and we have seen these teams now play admittedly a small sample do you feel like because i am starting to feel like

there is a significant divide between one and two and the rest of the east that maybe we didn't talk about before where we said it's kind of more evened out on the top six in the east but that Milwaukee and Toronto are in fact significantly better than whoever would be third, let's say Boston, and then the rest of the pack. I mean, I feel like we've consistently felt that Milwaukee is the clear one. I wouldn't say Toronto. Toronto, two from three, you're saying. Correct.

Okay, so you're not putting Toronto next to Milwaukee. I'm not down on Boston. I'm just saying their defense needs to get fixed. Okay. The fourth. And by the way, I just want to correct what I said earlier. they're 16th of 22 in defensive rating right now. They were 21st a couple of days ago,

so they did move up slightly. But still, that's something that needs to get better. I'd still think, I mean, there's Milwaukee and then everybody else, but Boston with what they can be is not far off from Toronto, nor the case with Miami, who's missing Jimmy Butler and Goran Drogrich right now. But Toronto has the highest upside of those teams, for sure. So you do think it's more bunched up in the east still.

Yeah, I still think Toronto. I would say it's Milwaukee, Toronto, Boston, Miami. And then after that, Philly, then Indiana, assuming like we're talking what they can be at their best. I'm just talking about it for putting it in tears. I'd still put Toronto and Boston in the same group. You would. Okay.

So you're not that down on. You just need to get the defense fixed. All I said was their defenses needs to get fixed. So, like, that was in response to your question about what seeding when I care about. And I don't care about the seating. I'd want to play the starters and resolve this. And then maybe if you get it fixed, if things seem right, you know,

and practices and film sessions, and you see it in a game or two, then maybe you start resting guys the last game or two at the end there. So that the priority is getting things right. And I think we saw that in one of these games today with Milwaukee and Miami. Milwaukee had a bad first half. They were down, but they came out in that second half and they just destroyed. the heat, just destroyed them. And this was a team that they weren't quite as at the level

that we may have expected them to come out of the gates. But they sure looked like that in that second half. So that's another good example of a team that played a tough game against the top of Miami opponent that's beat them twice a season. And the Bucks took that opportunity to really throw it all out there and show what they can be, not just to everybody else in the league, but to themselves. and to really just get one of those games in, there's a necessity.

Playing a hard game, playing a lot of minutes, and playing with high intensity, locked in on defense. And I think each of these teams need one of those to click back before the postseason. And Boston hasn't had that yet on defense. Toronto has had every game where they're great on defense. And Milwaukee just had theirs in the second half against Miami today. I mean, Janus was just, oh. I mean, he showed why he's the MVP.

I do wonder if, because you watch the Bucks and you watch Toronto have this, and you watch a lot of these other teams, and when they bring their bench units in, it can get pretty dicey, pretty fast, right, for any of them, outside of the best of the best teams. And I do wonder, as this thing plays out, as we're seeing so many games in so little time, as injuries are starting to mount up, guys sitting out, starting to. to mount up that if this year, it used to be that teams didn't go very deep into their bench when it comes playoff time, right? You shorten your rotation. You play your best guys. You might end up playing their best five guys, 38 minutes a game, and then you play three guys off the bench or two guys off the bench, and on regular occasion when it comes to playoff basketball. And I do wonder if this year, because of the way it's set up, if, having a lot of depth is going to be more critical than in years past in the playoffs,

simply because of so many games in so little amount of time and then the injuries and being able to cope with them. And if that is the case, I'll say even tonight, as I watch that Portland game, like Denver, their GM, like their management has done the most unbelievable job because they didn't have anybody that would normally be playing for them in crunch time in the game, like not one player that would normally be in the game. And I watch them and I watch Toronto. I watch Milwaukee and so many of these teams with really good benches. And I do wonder, are you going to be able to run these guys out there 40 minutes every night? Westbrook sitting out tonight. LeBron's sitting out tonight. Anthony Davis is sitting out tonight. But what about when we get to the

playoffs. It's still going to be a lot of basketball games within three weeks time, four weeks time that they'll be playing. I don't know. You think that having a bench this year is more important than having a bench in a normal season. Probably because there's not quite as much time between games. So maybe you won't see some high minute totals from teams that you otherwise would have seen. But this is something, again, that's unpredictable. I mean, we'll see how these games actually unfold with what coaches do with their rotations

when every game is a must win. I mean, right now the games matter for seating, but like we're not talking about for, you know, 90% of the league is in right here. You know, they're in the postseason. There's only, you know, a handful that have a chance at the postseason right now. So for most of these teams, seating manners,

but, you know, you're still looking forward here. So I would lean towards, yeah, the bench will matter a little bit more, but I still think ultimately you're going to see guys get high 30s, low 40s, and minutes as this progresses towards, you know, second round, third round, in the finals. I wonder if this is the first year that a guy would sit out of a playoff game for rest. I don't think so. No, no chance.

Maybe you could. Milwaukee could. If you're up 3-0, yeah, yeah. No, no, Milwaukee could. If they wanted to, they could sit about the whole damn series and win. It wouldn't matter. For it's worth, we're recording this during the Rockets, Lakers game. Rockets, end of the third quarter right now as we record up 94-7-9.

That game looks pretty wrapped up without LeBron James for the Lakers and without Russell Westbrook for the Houston Rockets. Jeez. So, I mean, we've now had what? Because they just got beaten their last game, the Lakers. And so are they going to get it back going before playoff time gets going? or they just, hey, we've got our seat. You know, we've got it, they've got it wrapped up.

They're not losing their spot to the clippers. No, they're not losing. So are we going to see the mega intense Lakers again before the postseason? Probably not. Maybe for a half. And that's what I sort of alluded to with Milwaukee. They took that second cap against Miami. They're like, we need to stop our foot down and show what we are to everybody and

ourselves to get this thing right in at least one big game against a really hard opponent. Even though Butler and Drogent were out, Miami's still. tough. I was looking through all the schedules today and trying to figure out this Western conference thing. And then I just, Kevin, honestly, I just threw my hands up in the air. And I know you chronicled it in the article and like, hey, this is what this team needs to do. This is what this team needs to do. But as I pulled out all their schedules, I'm like, how, I mean, okay, so the sons beat the Pacers today, right? Their next three games are Miami, Oklahoma City, and Philly. Well, like, I didn't think they were going to beat the Mavs, the Clippers.

and the Pacers back to back to back. So what do I know now, right? Like, I don't know. Maybe they can. And all joking aside, as much as you and I have fought about the Suds over the years, let me say this. I saw them at the beginning of the year. And when I saw them and saw Monty Williams, he got them sharing the ball.

I think they led the league and assist at the end of the year. That team did not play that kind of pop the ball around, unselfish type basketball, and they had added Ricky Rubio as their point guard. And here's another one that is not getting mentioned. And as far as I know, I know he didn't play today, Baines. He's out. And that was, I mean, a great signing by them, great signing by them. And he's not even there.

And look at what they're doing. You know who's been interesting for them? Campaign had a really good year in the G-League. I believe when we were talking about G-League signings, One of us mentioned him as a guy who likes to watch for. No, you did because, and I told you he's a Memphis kid. Yeah. And he had a good year in the G League.

And he's played well in his couple games with Phoenix. And small sample size. Let's not overreact here. But Cameron Payne, only 25 years old right now, after struggling early on with Chicago and OKC and Cleveland, looking like a quality backup point guard to me. I mean, I watched his film in the G League. He looked like it. He's looking like it still now.

The sample's getting bigger and it's in bigger games. Looking like a quality player for Phoenix. Possibly a late bloomer. He was a major. You know, I live in a city where I know who the best 13-year-old is because it's just a basketball city that's a way it works in Memphis. You know these kids by the time they're going into high school and then you know which high school they're going to go to.

Campaign was one of those guys. I didn't even know about until his senior year. and then he went to Murray State. Oh, major late bloomer to the point where, I mean, he went to Murray State before Murray State, you know, had the same kind of connotation that it does now with Morant and they've had the players.

For sure. But Cam, he was going there in part because he wasn't, I mean, look, the Memphis Tigers, who were the school in town, they didn't even look at him. They didn't even recruit him. How about this? There's another one I just saw. Chris Chioza, not recruited, by his homeschool. He ended up going down to Florida,

and now I saw him the other day. But back to the whole campaign thing, the other thing, it's impressive, Kev, they've got Javon Carter on that team, and they drafted Ty Jerome. Yeah. I mean, that's four point guard, and two that are young guys on your team,

and they signed him, and he jumped both of them, and is playing well for them. For sure, no doubt. And it's been interesting to see, I mean, actions sometimes speak louder, and Phoenix going out getting Ricky Rubio, making the trade that on paper looks horrible,

T.J. Warren, and for cash considerations, was to open up cap space for Rubio, signing and drafting all these point guards when you have Devin Booker. Booker, what pissed me off so much about the criticism of the past with him, people calling him a ball hog, you know, a guy hates to pass all that. It's not what he is. He had to do that by necessity for that team. He's at his best when he's playing a hybrid role now

because of the on-ball player he's turned into. But he's at his most efficient when he's sharing the ball in the back corner, whether that's Rubio, whether it's a guy like Ty Jerome, if he's able to develop, or whether it's campaign. If campaign keeps getting better, who knows?

But this is what elevates Booker when he can cut off ball, come off screens, come off handoffs, and just attack a defense that's out of position in addition to the stuff that he has developed himself to be able to do on the ball. And for Phoenix right now,

you look at their roster, they're still raw. I mean, they might not make the postseason here. If they drop one game, it significantly hurts their chances of even getting the nine spot. I mean, like, they really need to go eight and no, seven and one at worst to get in here. So their odds are still slim despite being four and O right now. But I still just look at this roster right now. And despite some of the decisions that I didn't like this past year, whether it was the T.J. Warren return or whether it was the Cam Johnson pick. I was wrong about Cam Johnson.

Looks good. T.J. Warren return not good on paper, but Rubio has at least been super important for that team. It seems like James Jones hiring Monty Williams with the roster that they're building, they are on a trajectory towards being a

yearly fixture in the playoff race in the West. Whether they can elevate to that team that is a fixture in the playoffs requires Aiton to continue getting better. It's going to require bridges to get better. It's going to require them

add another guy. But this team right now with what they are, it's really fun to see what they've become in a short amount of time. Because this is, you mentioned some of their struggles during the season and like, we joke about them. They did deal with a lot of injuries, guys coming in and out.

Oh, for sure. Baines was great for that team and then he got hurt. And now because of what Aiton has continued to turn himself and to be, they're still doing well without him. So I'm incredibly encouraged by what we're seeing from the Sons. Look, in all honesty, and I think I tweeted this the other night, everybody's lucky that they were so far behind because they are playing the best.

You know what I mean? Like, they're dangerous teams. That's three good teams they took down. Now, Dallas lost again tonight. Dallas lost to the Clippers. And Dallas has looked very up and down. I mean, and we saw them, you know, at the beginning of this, they played that game against Houston,

and it was like, what, like, 170 to 170. I mean, it was ridiculous. It was just two teams flying up and down the court. And so I don't really know what to make of what's going to happen with them. But it felt like the Clippers, you know, they played their guys. And that kind of felt like they cared more about that game than they normally would because that could very easily.

And in fact, pretty likely be the matchup, the Dallas against. Well, if that was a preview, that's going to be a pretty shitty series. I mean, Dallas can play better than they did, you would think. But they've also been up and down all year long, too. This is part of what they are. It's a bad matchup for Luke. It is a bad matchup. I mean, the clippers are a bad matchup for virtually everybody.

They're an incredible team. Guess who else is a bad matchup for? LeBron. I saw yesterday, LeBron's got his worst shooting percentages against them of any team in the league. You know, so I mean, it's not just, it's any, I mean, they have frigging Quai Leonard and Paul George to throw at you if you're a wing. Yeah. It's not easy.

I mean, we've talked about this a bunch, and we'll have a lot more time to talk about the Clippers as the postseason unfold. But you still look at them on paper, and it feels like this is a team that's going to be able to peak in the postseason. They have the ability to play any type of style on the court, any type of lineup. They can dictate matchups with who they put on the court. And they have wing defenders that other teams lack. I mean, Portland, as fun as they are right now, as fun as Gary Trent Jr. is, you know, turning into to this knockdown shooter, gritty defender. They don't have wing defenders of the quality that the clippers have.

Few teams do. They don't have any. Yeah, Portland doesn't have any. Trevor Reese's at home. Yeah, exactly. But few teams have them at the quality that the clippers do. Never mind the fact they can go small if they need to with Michael Green at the five or Patrick Patterson at the five if they want to or they can go big with Zubots and

Marcus Morris in the front court. They can play any style. they want. And that to me I picked the Lakers in the finals before the year. I'm picking them to win the finals now. But the back of my mind, I still look at the Clippers and I'm like, this team's peak is probably slightly higher than the Lakers.

If they get things clicking the way they can. Isaac? Yeah, yeah. Big difference a week makes, huh? Man, I was just sitting here in disbelief that you guys are finally giving the Clippers some recognition. What? I cannot believe the fact that you... I'm the one that went over the top on it. him after the Laker game.

I know you did, but Kevin O'Lakers fan definitely did not. Definitely did not give us the recognition that we deserve. I mean, I'm still picking the Lakers to win the finals. Here, Exhibit A, right here. He can help himself. He's still picking the Lakers. He just has to mention the Lakers for some reason, just has to mention them. When you're giving the Clippers props for having a great team.

Yeah, look, I'm going to say this. I certainly like what I've seen out of Denver and they don't even have their guys yet. And the Porter thing, we'll see. But it wasn't just a one game flash. It's now been a few game flash for Michael Porter Jr. And if he is getting minutes, even when the guys come back, that adds an element to them. And then the other ones, Oklahoma City has looked good,

and then they've looked dicey. Certainly their bench looks a little weak without Schrooter. The one that I, I mean, obviously I saw the Grizzlies play against Utah yesterday, and Ingalls was lighted out in that game. But my God, Kevin, when they go to their bench, it is dismal. It's like Emmanuel Moudier, Tony Bradley, George Nying,

like, I think, Rajan Tucker. I mean, it was, that's the cost of losing Bogdanovich, right? And so that Utah team,

who I had very high hopes for, and Conley finally looks like Mike Conley again, and that may be because Bogdanovich isn't there, the Utah team, they're the ones that I think, if I'm one of those teams stacked up in the middle, that's who I'd want to draw. in the first round for sure that Utah team i'd rather play them than just about anybody i could

think i'd probably rather play them than Dallas unbelievably how about Portland i wouldn't i'd rather face Utah i mean and it's hard to say head to head you remember that first game is the one that Utah ended up beating the pelicans and then they've been okay i mean they got they got beat up pretty bad by the lakers then they beat the grizzlies ultimately it doesn't matter it's not a choice for the Lakers or whoever. It's not a choice for Portland either. It would be kind of cool if the Lakers and Clippers were the first two picks in the West then they could choose their opponent.

I wonder like which team, like who would the Lakers choose? Who would the Clippers choose? You know, that would be kind of nice. I'm saying this. Like, if I'm Houston, that's the team I'd want. I would much rather play them than have to play against the other two that I could possibly face. Is that fair?

Yeah, I mean, it's not going to happen. No, no, no. I'm saying Utah. Yeah, I mean, if they move up to five, it's possible. But then again, Utah could also slip down to six. So it's, I mean, so much is out of their control. Yeah, if I'm Houston, I'd write, if I could draw one of those teams. I would rather play them certainly than Denver.

I would rather play them than Oklahoma City. Yeah, but then if Houston moves into the four or five spot, then they get Lakers second round. Would you rather have, you know, Utah first round, but Lakers second round, or would you rather have another opponent first round? and then Clippers second round. Either way, either way,

the road of the finals and the Western Conference is tremendously difficult because you've got to go through one of those behemoths, the Lakers and the Clippers. I mean, they are better than everybody else.

We talked about the Bucks being better than everybody in East. Lakers and Clippers are still a level above the rest of the competition. Either way, I don't think I worry about seating as much as you do. I really don't.

It's not something I think about a lot. I will more so next week, like when we record next Tuesday, and there's fewer games left, then I'll look at what can change more. But right now, so much can be swapped between these rosters. I mean,

Houston is going to win tonight, so they'll be in the five spot Friday morning, or the four spot, depending on the tiebreaker. They'll be tied in record with Utah. But so much could change by next Tuesday when we record again with how close these teams are that I'm right now not looking that much at it,

except for the eight spot and the nine spot in the West. Okay. I think Portland's going to be there. I think they're going to play against the Grizzlies. They may flip them. Do they take the eight? So flip? Yep.

Yep. They may flip them. They may flip them. So it would be eight and nine. But I think it will be Portland versus Memphis. Because Memphis, again, I told you at the very beginning, the last game of the season is against the bucks. And that's Boodinthoser at Taylor Jenkins, you know, coach for him. I'm not going to say he's going to give him a win.

But, I mean, it's not like the bucks are going to be mega motivated for that. And do you get a lot? one of these others. They could certainly, they've played decently against Oklahoma City and then you really don't know. I know you said Boston will play their guts out for that pick, but players don't give a shit about that pick. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know the players don't, but what I'm saying is that

the coaching staff would treat that as a game. Right. We're playing the full 48 minutes here. It's still, you know you're going up against a team that hasn't gotten a win. And as soon as you take somebody lightly whose life is on the line themselves, then you end up getting beat. That's the Pelicans, right? They took somebody,

they probably thought they were going to walk in and beat the Kings today. And then they got 49 hung on them. I just think their defense is bad, period. 49. It's the defense is bad, and the Kings were red hot from three in the first quarter, too. I mean, Bogdanovich was hitting absolutely everything. It was partially bad defense.

It was partially the Kings were on fire. And when those two things happened together, I mean, that's what you see is 49 points in a quarter. So because of the way these teams, when I look at the Spurs schedule, the Sun schedule, the King's schedule, Pelican schedule, I mean, the Blazers, I think, are very, very likely. You know, their next game's, the Clippers, they could drop that. But, I mean, they've got at least another win against Brooklyn. So I think they'll be there.

And I think that they may flip it to where it is them and Memphis, and Memphis has to beat them twice in order to move on, which is tough road to hoe, especially at this point. But do you think, who do you think the Blazers? are playing in eight, nine. If you had to guess now. I mean, I don't know. Like I said earlier,

there's so many games left, so much can be interchanged. Are you asking, like, who will they be playing in eight or nine? Or will they be eight or nine? I'm not sure if I heard you correctly. So if we say the Blazers are going to be there,

we agree on that. No, we don't agree on that? Yeah, we agree that the ways it will be there. There'll be a play in. And so they'll be playing somebody. And I'm asking you who you think they'll be playing.

You think, Memphis is losing their spot? Probably not. I mean, Memphis only needs to win a game, and their odds dramatically increased to get in because of tiebreakers, because of the percentage points of games played. So in all likelihood, they'll face Memphis. I would say probably Portland, Memphis.

That's just what the odds say. With Portland being eight. I know. Like, we're talking on a podcast. We're supposed to make a prediction, but the fact is this is unpredictable. We don't know what teams will rest, when they'll rest. we don't know which teams will treat us serious or not we just don't know these things i'm not asking you

put money i'm not asking you to put any money on but like i can't even predict whether it's you know monopoly money or not i just can't predict because we don't know if it's the day of the game and then you find out which players are going to play or not then you can make a prediction but right now it's just throwing shit against the wall yeah all right well i think it'll end up being blazers probably probably jump. They probably jump. And then my grizzly dreams end.

Unless they could beat the Blazers two out of three. They're already over, unfortunately. Oh, how dare you? I mean, without Jaron Jackson, it's sad, really. It just sucks it ended this way from Memphis. It really does because this year is so

freaking fun watching this team. The Jared Jackson thing hurts. They could actually get by. The one that has killed them, and this is one of those sneaky ones that fans of the team that watch all the time realize, but like unless you watch them all the time,

it'd be hard to realize. The Tyos Jones injury has just killed them because they don't have a backup point card and De Anthony Melton can't do it. And now John Morant is like, anytime he's not out on the court, it's a debacle. And they have to get him back in the game.

And he just gassed out against Utah. He gassed out. And not having Tyos Jones has really, really changed their team. Like their second unit just can't run. And that's what we talk about. You know, their depth was such an asset because they had like four good players. They ran out there, Tyos Jones, the Anthony Melton, Brandon Clark, Kyle Anderson. And that's kind of what ran out there.

So they've lost three of their top, what, six guys? Because Justice Winslow was supposed to be their starting. small forward too. So they've lost Justice Winslow, Jaron Jackson, Jr. and Tyos Jones. Brutal. The worst. It's just the worst. It's been rough. Really bad. All right. It's going to do it for another episode of The Mismatch. Thank you to Isaac Lee as always, and we will talk to you next Tuesday.

Looking forward to winning. Thank you to Dan Bailey and John Titterington for the music. Have a great weekend, everybody.