The Ringer NBA Show - Damian Lillard Balls Out, Devin Booker in Phoenix, and Should We Worry About the Lakers? | Real Ones

Episode Date: August 10, 2020

Logan Murdock and Raja Bell discuss this weekend’s games, including Damian Lillard’s incredible showing against the 76ers (00:41). They also talk about Phoenix’s momentum and how to best capitalize on Devin Booker’s moment (06:21) before discussing possible concerns for the Lakers, potential reform in the fight for the 8-seed, and players’ relationship with the media. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

to the Ringer NBA show. I am staff writer, Logan Murdoch, and I'm joined by my colleague, my co-host, Apodna, curator of vibes, former NBA player,

budding staff writer, I don't know yet, Rajabelle, what's popping, bro? Same old, same old, man, good morning. Good morning, man.

We are recording this at 6.09 a.m. Pacific time. We get real early to get you guys this. But I want to get right to it, I want to get right to it. I want to talk about Dame Lewis.

I want to talk about a real Oakland dude. I really want to get into his performance last night. He scored 51 points against the Sixers, keeping the Blazers playoff hopes alive. And this was a night after he went back and forth with the clippers on the sideline, Patrick Beverly, Morris Twins, and Paul George. He went back and forth for them.

After he missed two straight free throws, that could have won the game for them. And then he goes back the next night and scores 51 points. I know how I feel about this. Right. How do you feel about this, Rod? You know, I feel like Dame is the closest thing to Kobe

that there is in the game. And I don't mean that from a standpoint of the way they look doing it. I'm talking about mentality, where it is always an assassin mode type of thing with them. They're always kind of creating a chip. I mean, Dame didn't have to in this instance, but there's just always something to prove and you feel that when you watch them play. Like, there's respect that they feel they've earned, that they're not given. And the grades have to do that,

right? That's what keeps you on point is what keeps you questing for the next thing. So he's, for me, he's a problem. I mean, if I had to guard him, I don't even really know exactly where I'd start. The range is what it is. And he's so shifty and really sneaky athletic. I heard a broadcast the other day where they were talking about Russ's athleticism. And clearly, you know, Russ is a different animal athletically at the point guard position. But check out some of Dames' highlights at the rim. Like he's got, he's really, really bouncy. He's a problem.

Did you think that he's underrated, overrated right now? Where would you put Dame right now? You know, for the last few years or for, I mean, maybe three years ago, you know, he was getting snubbed for All-Star Games. And, you know, the conversation was revolving around, you know, should he be an All-Star or not. I think he's probably still undervalued. The market probably has something to do with it.

You know, the Portland's inability to really, really advance in the playoffs has probably had a little bit to do with it. But I do think he's undervalued. I think his skill set with the right complementary pieces is one that could

win championships. And Portland's got a decent team. They got a nice little squad. I just don't know that he's really had the right complementary pieces in his career yet. I think the biggest thing with him is he does have a resume. And he kind of talked about his resume during the post game stuff after the Clippers game when he talks about, yeah, I sent Pat Bev home.

I sent Paul George home. I sent all these dudes home. What do you think about this spiciness from Dame? I mean, I know personally, you know, he's from Oakland. We're from the same city. But I like that in my player. I like that. I like somebody jabbing back.

And then backing it up in a game like how he did. whether there's stakes involved. Yeah, look, and I like the fact that he said he didn't have any beef. Like, the way he approached it was that that's a compliment. You know, the fact that those guys have my name in their mouth like that is kind of a compliment and a testament to what I've done. So I really liked his approach. And what, you know, a lot of guys can approach it like a G.

It's a different animal when you go out there the next night and really double down with your actions. And he came out the next night and was smoking. And that's the way you handle it. And that's the difference between, you know, quite frankly, a player like Dane and maybe somebody that was chirping at him is whether you can just talk it or whether you could talk it and then back it up. Yeah. And the backing it up is the part.

And I know when I was growing up, Kobe was one of these dudes. You know, Mike was one of these dudes to where whether it's imagined or real, they have a chip on their shoulder. Absolutely. One of those guys that if you make them mad, it's bad for you on that next night. Listen. Who are some of those guys to you? But I just see that in Dame in a way that, you know, a lot of players just some don't have.

Yeah, it's funny you say that because that was, it was exactly where I was going with it. And everybody's wired differently. But I got a real early introduction into, like, talking to the wrong person. We were in Utah. Reggie Miller's farewell tour. He was chilling, just kind of, you know, riding and out, taking the, you know, he was still good, but he wasn't caring about being in Utah on this particular night. And I hit him for a couple buckets early.

And at the end of the first quarter, I said something to the effect of like, you know, I might have called him old. And I said, it's going to be all night. And I remember he shot a glance back at me like, what? The stat line speaks for itself after that. I think I hit one more field goal and he had like 30 on a random night in Utah. And so from then on, like, in my mind, it made no sense to go out there and start chirping at a great. I mean, they do this night in and night out.

You might catch them on the broadcast as a fan like, you know, twice a week. But these cats are doing the same thing every night. So if you catch them on a night where they're not engaged, it makes no sense to poke the bear. I thought you weren't a talker, man. I thought she was. I learned really quickly not to be a talker. That was by experience. Reggie was like, hey, Rachel.

Reggie with his eyes. With his eyes. And then with his game. Like he just was, you know, and wasn't really an a hole about it or anything. He was just like, look, you barked with the, up the wrong tree today, brother. And we're going to get to Dame in a second

in regards to the playoffs, and things like that. But I do want to get into a team that is near and dear to your heart. The Phoenix Suns. Yeah. What you got to say about my sons, man? What you're talking about? I mean, I have,

I haven't had a lot good to say about them over the years, but right now, that's why they're at the top of this list. I wasn't prepared to do this, but here we are. You know what I mean? They have won five straight in the bubble, including a buzzer beating win over the Clippers. As of Sunday, they're,

they are, I think they're a half game out of the playoff game. I wrote this run a rundown on Saturday, but they are in the playoff mix in a way that I didn't think they were going to be in. Devin Booker is playing amazing. he's averaging nearly 30 during this stretch. What do you think about this run right now? I'm surprised.

I saw the suns earlier this season. You know, I've seen them over the years. It ain't the sons that you played for, Raja. Right. Far away from that. So what do you think of this nucleus right now? Yeah, I kind of, I really like what the suns have going on. I didn't see them coming into this bubble and doing what they're doing.

Bigger picture, though. I like kind of where they're out. I've been saying for years, they just seem like a rudderless ship. Like they've accumulated talent through the draft that didn't necessarily like mesh together. It's a revolving like door or a carousel, if you will, of coaches and, you know, general managers and executives. And there's just no, you know, solid structure and framework there in Phoenix. And that stuff starts from the top, right?

That's an organizational problem. That's not that's not on the court, you know? And I think you've seen with James Jones come in, it didn't happen overnight. But James is a really solid guy. And it seems to me like he may be someone that Robert Sarver, who hasn't always put like 100% faith in people, maybe he'll get out of the way and kind of let James and company execute their vision. So the talent is starting to kind of mesh together, right? Like I think that Devin Booker, Aiton, you know, Ubre, Cam Johnson, I'm Rickie Rubio was a nice, piece in there. The kid from Villanova, I forget his name. But that's a nice, a nice nucleus of

talent. And I do think Monty is the right guy for them. Like, I don't know how you feel about Monty, but I like Monty as the type of personality that's going to be able to kind of vibe with that team. It's stages of coaches that you need, right? And there's the coach that is going to bring you to that level of postseason play and that's going to mold you and that is good for coaching a young team. I think Monty Williams is that. I don't know necessarily. He's a good. a championship coach right now. But I don't think the Phoenix Suns don't need that right now. They need a coach that's going to a coach that's going to just get them and build the right

habits and do the right things. I want to talk about Devin Booker, though, because he's somebody that's always been a great young score. He's always been somebody that just get buckets, but the sons haven't necessarily won. Do you think he's taking a next step during this time? Yeah. Well, I think what you're seeing him do now is kind of what you're still talking about. I think he's still just scoring at an extraordinary clip and his versatility offensively is really, really fun to watch.

I think the next step for him, and I guess you could say he is because his team is winning, but it's translating those buckets into results in terms of wins and losses, right? Like when you're in a front office, like, you know, I learned this doing it with Griffin, those guys, and you're sitting there. And you'll go through every single player in the NBA, at least this is what we did. And you'll give them a rating. And that rating is based on whether you can be the alpha and the leading score on a championship level team. And that's where you would be an A1 type of player. And then anything after that, like, you'd be slotted in.

So if you're a number one score, but you're not going to be able to do that for a chance. championship level team, you might be in a 1B or a 1C. And so for him to be the 1A, that has to translate into wins if you, you know, and they're the short sample size right now. But I do think that the roster has something to do with that and the coach has something to do with that. And as they continue to kind of gel as a young team, I think next year, you'll see that start to really translate into wins for the Phoenix Suns. And hopefully it could be a playoff team again. But again, And if Robert Sarver, you know, like you've worked at a lot of companies, I'm sure I've worked at a lot of companies and I've played on a lot of teams. The ones that are run well from the top and you feel as a player that there's consistency in message, you know, and in expectation, like you can operate in that safely and feel like you can do your job and what's expected of you.

When there's chaos, it begins chaos, you know. Yeah. Hold that thought on Sarver and ownership real quick. I do want to ask some more question about Devin Booker because you've touched on a. an interesting point. When you talk about the score who doesn't win and the score, and I'm not saying that Devin will not mature into a score that just wins on a yearly basis, he's still young.

But I do want to know why is there players that score well but don't win? What makes a score win versus a score that doesn't? It's a good question. make sure I'm delicate with this one, because I want to give a good answer. I want to make sure, look, in an NBA game, there are points that have to be scored, right?

And I've always said, like, if you take a lot of NBA players and you put them on really bad teams, points have to get scored. They're guys that can get you buckets. Most people that are in the NBA, most I say, were the alphas and the lion's share of the scoring on whatever team and situation they came from. So give them the ball, put it in their hands,

hands, let him shoot it 25 times a game, you're probably going to wind up with some numbers. That doesn't mean that they could do that on a team with more talent around them when the ball isn't necessarily there. There's as much, you know, in some situations, you might have a guy who could do it, you know, for a championship winning team, but he doesn't have the supporting cast around him. And for book, I feel like it's been more latter than the first scenario I described. I think he can do it on a championship level team. I don't think that they've had kind of the team around him

that's going to give him the support that he means night in and night out. But I mean, the short answer to your question is, bro, there's got to get scored. So the best score on the team is going to get the points, even if he's on a bad team. Yeah. And I want to get back to what you said and you touched on this. What's the biggest difference for you from the Suns when you played versus now?

Because you played at the golden era of Suns basketball. And there seemed to be an infrastructure there. what is the difference now? I do believe the Colangelo family and the way Jerry and Brian kind of established culture and it was established before I got there

and that trickled down through the organization for whatever reason I don't feel like Robert Sarver was as involved in the day to day with them. Maybe it was early in his ownership experience and he didn't really have this big boy pants on yet.

I don't know. But I think they said a really good tone. And I think our teams were put together really well, Logan. Like, we were complimentary pieces across the board. You know, everybody kind of fit the way we were trying to play. But again, that takes me back to like, do you have a vision? Where are you going? What's the road map? And can we execute that? Because we were going to play a certain way. They were in lockstep with Mike playing that way. And then they targeted players that fit that style. Like, they went out and got pieces that they needed to fit that. So it just spoke to some unity in terms of a franchise that they've been lacking.

Like, you can, I looked it up before we came on air, man. Like, it's, it's hilarious how many coaching and front office changes they've had over the last decade. It's embarrassing. When do you think they lost their way? You know what? I think it started when the Mike situation didn't work out. Like, I'm not saying that every one of us on that son's team needed to be there for a career.

Like that's not the way that works. But we were in the middle of something really good. And I feel like you blew it up too early. And I think the evidence is in Terry Porter taken over and it didn't necessarily work out. But Alvin Gentry going right back to the same style and then being right back in the Western Conference Finals again. And so that's basically, you know, there were different pieces, but it was the same philosophy. And so I think that was the beginning of it. And then, you know, Alvin hung on for a minute.

And then, you know, once Steve and Steve and Steve, Steve Nash, and once they left, you know, that was kind of, it was going to be a mess. But I want to tell a story real quick. Like, I went to Robert Sarver and Steve Kerr. And I guess, you know, I do have to throw Steve Kerr in the mix there because he was part of the new group that came in. They couldn't work with Mike DeAntony and they philosophically weren't aligned, which is really important.

and it ran Mike out the door, and then we went to Terry Porter. But anyway, I went to Robert Sarver, and I wanted an extension, and it was early. It was probably too early for an extension. What year is this? This was maybe, what I play, 06, and then 06, 07. So this would have been 07-08.

We had some good years. I was two-time, like all defensive teams and was leading the league in threes, one of those years. So I was just going to take a swing at it. And, you know, it took me to lunch, and I asked him, I said, you know, he's like, I understand you want an extension and this and that.

And I was like, yeah, You know, we've had some success here. And we went through the whole thing. And his answer to me, I'll never forget it. He said, do you deserve an extension? Yes. Am I going to give you an extension? No.

And he was like, do you want to know why? And I was like, well, I guess. And he said, because I don't have to. And look, you're fully within your rights. I mean, I get it. Like, I'm not going to get the extension. But the execution of that was in such poor taste, man. Like, if that's the way you run your, you know, you've just,

You turn me off. Like, I don't even want to be there anymore. Was that even, was that early in a meal? Like, what did you even get? Bro, we didn't even get to his salads. Damn. And you just, and so you just eating through that and just knowing like, damn. Just, yeah, like I got pissed right down.

Now there's, what is there to say? Correct. Correct. But, but, I mean, that speaks to, like, you know, you're, you don't, you have to have a deft touch to sometimes run these, these organizations if you're going to be involved as an owner and he just lacks it. You hear these stories about Phoenix. And I think that that's something that we're going to get into.

First of all, I, I will say this. Let's not get away from the point. Phoenix is bawling right now. And I think that if they stayed as course, they can have a bright future. And I think in past years, they have gotten away from that.

Even in the 2009, 10 season, when they won in spite of, you know, the front office turmoil, I think they have a chance to do that now with the talent that they have. They just have to stay the course. What do you think they're missing? Like, what do you,

what pieces would you like to see, them add to this nucleus that they have. Probably another veteran presence. I think that they have, and maturity, they just need to play with each other. You know what I mean? And I think that, you know, it's going to start with Book and Aiden.

That's just what it is. If you can, I know I could just talk about it with the Warriors. If you get like a veteran player who's seen a lot, you need that in the locker room, but not just a veteran player who was above the hill. I'm talking about somebody who would still play. Yes. You're talking to Iggy type of person.

Aigodala type of personality that can transform that locker room. And, you know, we'll see what happens. And I know we talked about Monty Williams as the coach. If they do get to that championship level, I'll be curious to see if he's still there. I would just say a veteran presence that can ball. Yeah. And I think that's what they need. And, you know, just the gradual maturity of the young guys.

Yeah, I agree with that. And but aside from that, I know that the sons have gotten criticism from all sides. And one of those sides has been Draymond Green. And he has criticized the sons on a number of occasions. And he took another swipe at him. And he said in regards to Devin Booker, it's great to see Book playing well and Phoenix playing well. But get my man up out of Phoenix.

It's not good for him. It's not good for his career. Sorry, Charles. Sorry, Chuck. But they got to get Book out of Phoenix. They asked him if that was tampering on inside the NBA on TNT. And Draymond didn't deny it. And he got fined $50,000.

But my question to you is, we know Draymond's an outspoken dude. And we know, I know as a media member, I don't like dudes that are boring. And we don't, and this league isn't entertaining off of dudes that are boring. And I feel like with Draymond, you put him out there and ask his opinion.

If he does ask his opinion, I feel like he's in a no-win situation. How do you feel as a player turned media member, staff writer, curator of vibes, how do you feel if you're in the league and somebody is trying to ask you a question and you can't necessarily answer it candidly? How do you fix that? Yeah, I think that that's another good question. As a player, you want to be able to get your voice out there when things need to be said.

And this is kind of what I would say to Draymond. Like, if it's important to you, if it's something that moves the needle for you as a person, as a brand, as a family, certainly use your platform to do it. But sometimes like situations like this, they don't move the needle for Draymond. Do you know what I mean? And while it is interesting, you really have to toe the line if you're a player on not doing things that are detrimental to the brand. And so if you start getting players taking swings at different franchise,

is just, you know, all open in the media like that. That's not a good look for the league. And that's why Adam Silver and the NBA has to step in and say, hey, look, here's the fine. We can't have you doing that. And so I like Draymond. I think he's really interesting. And obviously, you know, he's a great follow.

You never know kind of what he's going to say. But he's still a player. And you definitely want to kind of tow that line. And, you know, not even to mention that, like right now, I'm sure Draymont feels like he's a Golden State warrior for life. like this ride is never going to end. But all rides end, you know, and then when it's time to get off the ride,

have you said too much? And other people out there like, hey, man, you remember when you talk crap about the suns? Yeah, we're not interested, you know? So you got to really be careful. I like him. I think it's great that he does that. It's great entertainment,

but you got to be real careful as a player, not a, you know, biting the hand that feeds you, so to speak. I mean, I'll say this. And I covered Draymond for my first three years on the beat, and he was a media member, dream. You know what I mean? He said what he loved.

And we knew when Draymond was in the chair in San Francisco and in Oakland that we were going to have a lot to write about today. It was like, okay, Draymond's in the chair. It's not going to be boring. Draymond says whatever is on his mind. And also he has the money to do it. Like 50 racks isn't nothing to Draymond

or a player of that caliber, right? But I feel like it's a double-ed sword, right? Because you ask him to do that. Like, obviously, like Charles Barclay can do that because he's retired, right? Right. And Dremont is trying to get in that lane, and I just feel like it's probably not fair.

I mean, but I guess it, but that doesn't matter, right? Like, entertainment is for post-career. Like, you're not supposed to be the outspoken media member as a player. You're still a player. Like, you can have your pods. You can talk, you know, and do what you do, but you still can't, like, your employer is the NBA.

And you made a good point. Like, the money is so great now that, if you really just wanted to do that and you like, I keep it 100 no matter what, then 50 grand isn't going to stop you necessarily from doing it. But guys have to realize that that's post-career, like Chuck and Shaq and all of those dudes are post-career. The second thing is, you know, media was,

I never thought the media was my friend. Like, I knew that the media had a job to do and they may be friendly. What are we? Are we like an acquaintance or something? Like, what are we to y'all? It's weird at the dynamic. Yeah. What are we to y'all?

No, we're acquaintances and we can be friends. but we're not friends because when push comes to shove, if I say something that's going to further your career, like more than likely, you're going to write that. Like, you know what I mean? And so you just have to know that when you're a player. And then we can be friendly.

We can kick it. We can have a drink. We can eat a meal. But I always have to be on guard if I'm a- We're inherently not on the same side. Absolutely. Unless we grew up together, bro, unless, you know, we were neighbors when we came up

and we went to school together. Yeah. And even then it's still. gray area too. It's a weird thing, right? Because we got a job to do, but you guys have a job to do and there's leverage. There's a lot of nuance. I want to talk about that sometime down the line because I feel like it's a great conversation. But in the, in the, when it comes to Draymond, I get, you know, why they find them. And, you know, sometimes you got to tow that line, you know, to plug a ringer podcast. Steve Kerr was on the Bill Simmons show and they, and he was asked about Janus and couldn't do it. It couldn't even talk about it. You know what I mean? and I get that. It's just what it is. It's what, like, they're put in place.

Those rules are put in place because if you let NBA people negotiate and sell through the media to other NBA players, it would be pure chaos. Like, it'd be chaotic. So do you think tampering should just be on the low? Because, I mean, tampering happens.

It just happens. Absolutely, it happens. I was, look, I... All right, talk. Go ahead, man. Let's talk. Some of my free agent experiences is we're talking about, I don't know,

a quarter of the way left in a season that I might be playing in and I already kind of knew where I wanted to go and that there was mutual interest. So that happens. You know what I mean? Like that's not something that only happens,

you know, a week before the free agency opens. That can be happening throughout the course of the season. You got a real story about this that you can do? You got something that you got something that you got something that you're going to say, sir? I got nothing I want to say other than there were multiple times that, you know,

my representation had been contacted about possible interest. I got my air quotes up from a team that was still playing, and my team was still playing. But yeah, I like that on the low. I mean, I don't know if that's just me being like, I want to keep my head in a hole, but I like it on the low. I don't like it played out into me.

Is it usually when you're on a losing team that you kind of know where you're going to go, or is it even on a winning team, you kind of know, I know when a winning team, sometimes you just know like you're not going to be there because the money just isn't right for that scenario. but do you kind of know during the end of the season when you're going to lead? Both of my experiences were on, well, I was on losing teams and I was being contacted through my representation by winning teams, you know? So that was my experience with it because we weren't going anywhere.

There was no playoff chase. When I was on good teams, the only thing I was concerned with, even if I was a free agent, it was trying to be, you know, the best I could be to win because the championship was the goal. Man, I really wanted to say, story, man. Maybe next time. You almost had me. Almost. I was there. Like, you know, because that's another thing. Sometimes we'd be

like, oh, man, they're about to get a story and be like, nope. I don't know what the statute of limitations is on the story, so I can't, let me do some digging and maybe we can get back into it. Man, Roger Bell is retired and still pump baking. That's crazy. We'll get back to the show in a second, but I wanted to tell you guys it's about Fandul.

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is the Blazers versus the Grizzlies at 42 percent, followed by the Grizzlies and the Sons. What is Rajah Bell's odds? Because I think that the Blazers are going to end up with, are going to end up in the postseason. I think the Blazers are going to overtake the Grizzlies because the Grizzles are just injured. They have not had a good bubble experience right now. So I think that it's going to be the Blazers and the gris. What do you think? Yeah, I don't know about the percentages for the play-in game, but the Blazers are getting it.

Like whoever they play in the playing in game, the Blazers are getting in for the reasons you just express. Like Memphis has been a great story. I like John Morant, but without Jared Jackson, Jr., like, I don't know that they have the chops to hold on to either the eighth or the night spot, let alone, like, win their way in. But I think the Portland Trailblazers have a lot of things going on from. They're healthy for the first time in a long time. And you've got him motivated Damian Littler.

Like, again, for a guy whose guy, he don't need any, like, fuel for the fire. And you gave it to him. I just, I think they're motivated, man. And Carmelo's been a great story, too. Yeah, I mean, it's just the motivation is different in the town, Roger. I don't know if you know about, I don't know if you know about that. I don't know if you know about that life. When this is over, maybe we can, I may I can show you around, you can come out?

I lived in Piedmont when I was out there. Oh, no, you don't know the town, bro. You don't know the town, bro. Did you go outside at all? Did you kick it? I lived in Piedmont. I didn't know. We were, look, I didn't know much about the town.

The team was young, so I didn't have anybody to like. I'm low-key disappointed right now. I mean, I get Piedmont. You could have lived by the lake. You could have. There's some other places you could have lived, bro. That's all I'm saying, man. We, that's for another day.

But the town is different. And I think that that, that, that, that, that, that, um, that, that, um, that, that, um, that, that I mean, I think that goes into another question, though, because we talked about the playing game briefly, but I do want to shed some light on the playing scenario. So under the current format, if a team that finishes number eight in each conference's standings is more than four games ahead of the night seat, it ought to be. qualifies for the postseason. If the two teams, eight and nine, are within four games of each other,

they enter a play-in period where the number eight seed needs to win one game to advance, and the ninth seed needs to win twice to advance. Do you think we should keep this long term? Because I kind of like this. This is kind of hard. Down to stress, I think it gives another wrinkle to the playoff race, especially, you know, because we already know what's going to happen at the top, and that's entertaining in itself.

But when you talk about the bottom half of the bracket, if you could have another level of entertainment, I think it's worth it. What do you think about reform? Does the postseason need reform in this way? Yeah, I think so. I mean, I'll give you three perspectives on it. If I was the A seed, I would want no part of it. I'd want to just, you know, I've done my work. We got in.

Everybody else, you know, you had 82 games to get it done. You didn't get it done. If I was nine or 10 and we were closely bunched there, I would love it. You know, you're giving new breath because I'd been on teams. that have been mathematically eliminated. Those are long days when you get into April and you're playing. You've got your house packed

and the movers are ready. You've got vacations and you just got to play it out. Those are long, long days. But from a fan's perspective where I sit now, I love it because it does. There's more intrigue. There are people, again, invested in playing down to the wire rather than having teams that are out

and we got to watch a nationally televised game. And one team has absolutely no, those are boring games for me. Now you have people actually hooping. So I really like it. And I think the NBA is the type of league. They've shown you this, that they will go out and at least, you know, test the waters with some of these things and see if they make sense, you know, moving forward. I love this.

And even if you're a seat, it just gives more incentive not to get you comfortable. It gives more incentive for better basketball. Because, I mean, if you are four games ahead of the night scene, then you good money, then you're straight. That's a good point. It keeps you sharp. And also I think that it helps you going into that first round of the playoffs. And I think that that's another wrinkle that we're going to see is, you know,

the Lakers are at the top of that Western Conference bracket, and they're not playing well. We're going to get that in the second. But they come in and they face a red hot Blazers team. We've talked about this before. I don't think that the Blazers are going to necessarily beat the Lakers, but it's still going to be, could be a hard, five game series. Yeah, more than more than the Lakers bargain for. Right. And I think that going into,

you know, if they continue to do this in future seasons, I think that's another wrinkle that if this team is just rolling going into the postseason, that's going to be tough on the top half of that bracket. Yeah, that's a really good point. And there's something to that. I mean, I've seen only one one guy that I've witnessed up close and person will be able to turn it on and turn it off. That's LeBron. And he really could hit a switch and be. playing. I like momentum. I know some people don't believe in it, but I think teams playing their best basketball going into the playoffs tend to be more successful. And so it's a wrinkle I hadn't thought about. I think it's a great point. And I'm, I'm sure we'll get to the Lakers in a minute,

like you said, but there's some real chinks in that armor that are showing up. And I don't mean to have a knee jerk, but I wouldn't discount Portland if they were really hot and playing well, because, you know, it might take the Lakers three, four games to figure it out. By then, it's too late. See, we're going to let's just get to it right now. Let's just get to it. Let's talk about the Lakers. I was very forceful last week about my Lakers pick. I still am there.

I'm still for my title pick. And I don't think that I don't think that they've done, they still won the West. Like they're still in the mix, but they're trying to, they're going through some things. Two and five in a bubble. LeBron is shooting 45% right now,

28 from 3. They've clinced the Western Conference, but they are not playing well. should we be concerned? I say no, not necessarily, but I can see the argument why you be concerned. Yeah, I'm going to agree. I'm going to say you should be concerned,

but they're levels of concern, right? Like, we're not talking about a house on fire right now, a level of concern. But there is a little bit of an ember starting to spark. And, you know, their inability to shoot the ball has created really congested lanes. So, like, you're not seeing LeBron be able to get downhill and, you know, like the court isn't as open as it used to be.

And it's kind of, you know, showing maybe a chink in their armor in terms of being able to shoot that ball like that. I do think that there was a lot of stock probably put in winning the Western Conference this year. And there was a bit of an exhale. You saw LeBron even in his postgame when they clinched. Like the comments were even like an exhale. Like, I did it. you know, and LeBron, I know he doesn't necessarily think that that's the end game.

Some of the other guys on that team, they may have just let the guard down enough after that to be sitting, you know, where they are right now. And like I said before, LeBron can flip a switch. I don't worry about that. Can Anthony Davis flip a switch? As great as he is, I don't know. I will say this, though, to your thing about Anthony Davis, he's the one that's been falling.

No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think he's the biggest offensive. Like, we talked about that. Like, he has to be good for them to be that championship level team. And he's been good. But, I mean, like, if you shift focus for, like, a split second away from winning a championship and put it on, hey, let's have a glass of wine because we won the Western Conference. What happens to, like, let's leave Anthony Davis out of it then?

Like, one and two are still focused, you know, on the goal at hand. What happens to, like, three through nine? like did they sleep, like feeling like they've accomplished something and wake up the next morning with just a little bit less focus? Because you're talking about fractional, like, levels of taking your eye off the ball, you know? And I worry about that with some of them. I'm just being honest. It doesn't look like they're hungry right now. How much do you think of plays in the part of they're an older team?

Lakers are an older team. They are a team that I feel like they have to still get their win back after a lot of ways, or they still have to get their run back after a lot of ways, or they still have to get their rhythm back. How much stock do you put into that? Because we talk about LeBron and we've seen him in past years where we've seen him going to the playoffs Red Hot. We've also seen him go into the playoffs kind of cold.

Both times he's gone to the finals, right? So there's part of that in me too where it's like, okay, man, they're two and five. They won the Western Conference. They have LeBron James. They have Anthony Davis. Why am I really being pessimistic right? right now. I mean, why am I tripping? These guys, like, LeBron James has done this before. And

am I wrong in that? I think it's fair. I think, you know, I would always air on that, like, and I have always aired on that, train and thought myself, like if you got LeBron and you pair him with anybody like in Anthony Davis, I'm going to bet on that. I just, I feel comfortable with that. There's, there's enough proof in the put in there. What I would say to play devil's advocate is this is just a different set of circumstances being in this, this bubble, having the shutting for as long as we've shut down. And then you just talked about them having to kind of find their sea legs again and figure out as an older team how to generate that energy again.

I believe they could do it. But Logan, like we just talked about if you catch a red-high Portland team who's been scrapping and clawing just to get in. And let's say it takes you three games into a playoffs to really hit your stride as a Laker team, it's too late. Like that, you're just way in, you're in deeper than you ever thought you'd be in. And at that point, anything can happen. So, you know, I still would lean on the side of, like, I'm rolling with the Lakers too, but I have concerns now, you know, seeing, you know, their inability to shoot the ball. And I, I think we've discounted like Avery Bradley, you know,

not necessarily, he wasn't shooting a great this year. He was like mid-30s, but he was a defensive, you could put him on anything, you know, and, you know, Lakers were a good defensive team. And, even Rondo, who like when you look at his splits and his numbers, he wasn't the Rondo of old, but you're still getting five assisted games. So that's time when you can have the ball out of LeBron or A.D.'s hand, and he can run some pick and roll and get guys some easy buckets. Like missing some of that, it hurts. Yeah.

And our super producer, TD, just put a quote in here. And something you talked about is the new environment. And this is a quote from LeBron James where he says, I'm getting more and more used to being out there. It's a very weird dynamic. I haven't played in an empty gym in a very, very long time. And I'd imagine this guy hasn't, and it's true, he probably hasn't played in an empty gym since, like, AAU or something like,

I don't know, a CYO basketball game or something. Like when he was seven. Yeah. And so, and we talked about this last week. You feed off the crowd, and that's different when you can't play in front of a crowd. Do you think that that is also kind of messing with them a little bit? Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure that's effective. not only him, but a lot of guys, especially on teams that, you know, to the point we were making before,

have kind of solidified some things. You don't have the juice, right? Like, you don't have the organic juice from, like, having to play hard every night to secure something. And then you don't get the juice from the crowd or the circumstances around you. I think a lot of guys are navigating that. I think that ultimately that the Lakers are going to be fine. I think that they're going to figure it out. Nothing has scared me from my pick of them being coming out of the Western Conference of being the champion.

I do want to give the Easter conference some shine right here. I guess it's shine. I don't know if it's shine. It's not shine. Ben Simmons is hurt for the season and he's not going to play anymore. Yeah, that's anti-shine. That's anti-shine. But he has a left Patela subbulaxin.

Yeah. And a subluxation is a. is when the kneecap pops out of place but returns on his own. And he's going to have to get surgery on that. That's nasty. Yeah, that does sound fun. And it seems like he's going to be out for the season. Does that it's a dumb question?

Does it mess up Philly's championship hopes? Did they have championship hopes before this? Does it, I didn't, I wasn't on the Philly bandwagon, but I don't think that they have any title hopes. If they didn't before, they definitely don't have any now. Right. I want to say, listen, it's weird, weird thing to say when you subtract the talent like Ben Simmons from the equation.

But I actually could make the case that they run more smoothly as a playoff team without Ben. If you just run it through Embed with a bunch of shooters. And see, I always felt like they kind of overlap. Like this conversation has been had a million times. But their skill sets aren't necessarily complimentary. So if you subtract one and just make the other one the focal point, like you might have a little bit more chemistry. But that's a tough blow for the Sixers.

and I'm just making the case. Like I tend to think that without him, you don't have a hope either. Before the Simmons injury, after the Simmons injury, I'm just not sold on the Sixers. And I think that they've shown over the years they've had some of the most talent in the Eastern Conference. They just haven't proven it for whatever reason. Brett Brown just hasn't, I don't think he's gotten the best out of them.

I think that they should have been in the finals or should be competing for the finals in over the last few years. and it just hasn't happened. You have a Jimmy Butler there. You have a Ben Simmons, you have a Jewel and B. The process is here, right?

And I think that, I don't think that they've lived up to the process that they have. And so I didn't really have much faith in them. They were a team that I think that just will self-destruct when it's time even before or after Ben Simmons. That's my take on the situation. That's, you're like opposite the Lakers take with them. Like it's just,

LeBron is gold and you can count on that. And the Sixers somehow finding a way to jack it up is gold on the flip side of that. Right. But I mean, at least with LeBron, it's proven, right? Right.

Right. Well, you know, what's interesting. And you talked about the, you know, kind of Brett Brown. I'm a Brett Brown fan.

Like, his dad recruited me to Boston University. But, I mean, I'm a fan of him personally. But you may have a situation, not unlike the one we talked about with Moni. Like,

Brett could have been the guide to navigate you through all of that, trust the process. Trust the process. That doesn't necessarily mean he's the guy once you've got the pieces that's supposed to take you to the promise land. You know, I'm not saying that I believe that, but you could have a situation like that. And then letting Jimmy Butler and Reddick, and I know, like, financially, I'm not even talking about how you were going to resign those guys. But that was your team, you know, and you let that kind of get away from. Yeah.

And, you know, we'll see what happens. I don't think they're going to win the title this year. I didn't think they were going to do it beforehand. I think there might be a shake of it. And maybe that's Brett Brown. maybe that's a trade. Who knows? But I think at the current state of the Sixers,

just don't see them as a title, as a legitimate title contender. That's just me. And I'm probably going to, I'm probably going to make Chris Ryan mad. He's a resident Sixers fan on the ringer right now. He's probably pissed. Tyler Times is probably pissed as I talk about this right now.

But it is what it is. You all know what it is. Something that we talked about last week, and it was right after we recorded the Monday pod last week. and we both put out our sleepers for the Western Conference. And I put out the Oklahoma City Thunder as the biggest sleeper in the Western Conference. I want to amend that right now. I think I want to amend that.

And we texted back and forth about this. I think I want to put the Houston Rockets in that mix as the biggest sleeper in the Western Conference. I've texted people. I've talked to you about this. I can't figure them out. Yeah. But I like them. right yeah i know they don't have a traditional they don't have a traditional center they play dudes

that are as tall as me and you at center james hardin has been bawling they they beat the milwaukee bucks with a team with one of the biggest front lines in the league down the stretch when they were out rebounded they beat the lakers who is another big team can they can is this sustainable russia i don't i don't i don't know man i don't they are They're confusing team, man. You know what? They do better than just about any team I've ever seen, aside from like ICEU with Westbrook and Harden.

But they're just going to do what they do. Like a lot of NBA teams have a game plan. They come out. They, you know, they amend it on the fly. They're going to try something different. They'll throw another scheme at you. And they've sometimes, you know, you've outthought it. Like, you just, they just keep coming.

Like, you know what they're going to do. You know that they're switching everything. You know that they're spreading you out and just dancing. And eventually, like even when they're down, like 12 points, like I don't worry about it because you're not going away from it. They got a lot of guys that are match up problems. And, you know, the crazy thing is they don't even have probably their third best guy on the ball.

Like Eric Gordon hasn't really even been, you know, in that mix yet. So that's another guy that could go out there and just get you ISO buckets and collapse defenses. I remember when the, I think it was the Warriors were playing the Rockets. their 2018 conference finals. I remember the game one, the Warriors just, they just smoked, they just smoked the Rockets in Houston. And this was the year that the Rockets were talking big,

you know what, about the Warriors and like, we're ready for y'all. And the Warriors just go in, they just beat them. You know, they go in and just beat them. And the next day,

it's the first question that comes to Mike Dan Tony and James Harden is, do you guys think you should, should change up your approach to go on with the Warriors? And it seems like, I remember the narrative being it just seems stupid in hindsight. It seems stupid in hindsight the narrative then, but the narrative was they should change what they are. And James Hard and Mike Ed Tony was like, what?

No. Right. We're going to keep is going to keep issuing. This is what we do. And this is what got us here. The Rockets were the only team to, they did collapse a few times, but they were the only team to really just stick it to Golden State by doing it. exactly what they do. So I've always had a respect for the Rockins. I may not necessarily agree with what they do all the time, but they are going to go down swinging and they're

going to go down swinging their way. And I do respect that about them. Super entertaining, super fun to watch. It took me a minute. Like in all honesty, man, I'm an old school kind of basketball mind that's just kind of, you know, accepting that we play this way now. Like I wasn't a guy who could dance on the ball. That wasn't, I like to come off of staggers. and like pin downs and catch and shoot and, you know, catching closing out in one dribble. So aesthetically, maybe two years ago when it started to happen at that point, I think it was just kind of high pick and roll with James a lot.

I was like, man, they're not going to run no offense. And now it's like wide open. We're not even running a pick and roll. We're just going into ice situations. And I love it. It's like watching a really, really high-end style of pickup ball with just great players, you know? What kind of mindset do you got to be in? to just be in the corner and just when I get the ball.

And then if you get the ball, you better make it the four times you get it. What is the mindset when that happens? Do you even know that mindset? Like, what is that? It took some getting used to, man. Like, it's, you know, for every NBA guy just about, for 99% of NBA guys, that was not your role coming into the NBA. Like, your role was to have the ball and score it.

And so morphing into that type of role takes some maturity. take some, you know, it takes some buy-in, quite frankly, it takes some money. Like, I wasn't, you had to pay me to do that. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I spent years in the NBA, three of them being told that if I defended and just made a three here and there, that I'd be an NBA player, but nobody paid me to do that. It wasn't until I got like 12 a game in Utah that somebody paid me. So, you know, there are a lot of things that go into playing that role. And I've said this, and I'll say it again, the best thing to, ever happened to me was going to the Phoenix Suns and accepting that role on really good teams.

But it also stunned my potential growth as a player because I no longer had the ball in my hands ever. I'm not saying that I would have been a good pick and roll player. I'm not saying that I would have been a creative, you know, off the bounce guy. But those opportunities were never going to be really available to me in bulk again. And that was okay because I wasn't I wasn't good enough to do that. But it's a fine line, right? you have to figure out whether you're good enough to be a ball in the hand guy. And if you're not, then you get you behind in that corner and spot shoot.

Yeah. They remind, this rocket team reminds me of a lot of the 07 warriors where they just, they just say, forget anything, any traditional, anything. We're just going to go super small and we're just going to beat you this way. We saw the demise of the, the 07 warriors in the second round against Utah. I really like this team. I do, I have no idea what they're going to do. I have no idea what they're doing, but I like like it.

I really like it. I like it too. I do, but I think they're ultimately, bro, like I think they're too small and it really, when push comes to shove. And I know that's really, this is the easy cop out, but somebody out there is going to make you pay for that, man. Like somebody's going to make you pay for not having anything in the middle of that paint. Now, TD is beating me up right now because a friend of the show, Austin Rivers, balled out and got 41 points. and he made it a personal note that we talk about this.

Okay. And we talk about this. This is for TD. This is for the Austin Rivers Hive somewhere out there. I also have respect for Austin Rivers too, man. I do. And because he's going through a lot of shit, a lot. Yep.

You know, just being, TD just said he's captain of the Austin Rivers Hive right here. But he's going through a lot of stuff. And he is inherently the stuff you go through when you are a coach's son. Like that just is what it is. Whether you're a good dude or a bad dude, if you're the coach of son, you're going to, lack of a better term,

go through the ringer. Yes, yes, well done. And I thank you, sir. What do you think of Austin Rivers rise? Because I'm impressed by it and I'm impressed that he's been able to carve out a niche for himself. And I think that he's a factor for the Rockets. Yeah, I like Austin Rivers' game.

And I should have probably mentioned him in another guy who can get buckets individually off the bounce. Perfect situation for him in what Houston's doing, right now because of his style of play. It lends itself to him being successful. You know, it's interesting, like, because I coach and I watch the dynamic with my son and his teammates. And I talk to him about it.

I'm like, look, man, you have to understand you're going to get a whole lot of slack just because, you know, you're my son. And so navigating that in the NBA, I could not even imagine some of the stuff that's been said to him. Like when we spent when dad gets him. him the bread and he went to the colors. You know what I mean? Like, that's got to be tough. But he's a player and it's a perfect fit because of his skill set and the way the Rockets play.

So I am mad at you, T.D. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, in Austin, I know he's, and he's been very candid about this, is the chip that he's had on his shoulder just for the sake of being a coach's son. Yeah. And just being and even playing for Doc. And he said, you know, that he doesn't even want to go back. He said that on his podcast with TD bagging in the, I guess a month or two ago.

I think that I'm glad that he's able to get away from that, from that Clippers and just being under Doc just for the simple fact that he can just be him and kind of carve out his own lane. He's Austin Rivers right now and he's bawling and I'm happy to see that. Another thing that's going on right now is we talked about this last week as the protest and NBA Social Justice Initiative. and what we think about it. And one of the things that I say is it's cool for all the lip service and things, but we need to see that action. We need to see what you're going to do. We need to see from an NBA standpoint,

how are you going to support your black players? And the NBA announced a $300 million investment into the black community. These team will donate a million dollars annually or $30 million collectively over the next 10 years. and eight-person board of directors will be installed with four of those seats going to the representatives from the board of governors. And it is to drive economic empowerment for the black communities through employment

and career advancement for high school and college ready black men and women, plus aid to organizations and job training and mentoring. What do you think about this? Look, we talked about taking steps. That's a big step. you're putting actual money like where your mouth is now here's here's the deal man like the NBA like 300 million dollars a lot of money but the money that you've generated off of the backs

of of of black players like that's a drop in the bucket like you know what I mean like it's it's good it's more than you were doing but it is a drop in the bucket and so I I want to say I like it at face value just because you're you're doing something and you're moving forward I do still think there's there's there's there's way more to do and and the players have to continue to take their opportunities while while we have the movement going to to leverage their situations to continue to affect the change that they want to affect so i mean i i may not have answered you exactly like the question but i try to like i like the fact that they're putting money where mouths are but i still think there's a lot more to to go and i do think that that's pretty that's dropping the bucket

compared to what you've generated off of the backs you know what i mean i 100% agree with that. I think it's a step, but also, man, we got to see transparency in this too. You know, we got to see where these dollars are going if they're reputable organizations. I know when the NFL did it, there was some stuff that came to light on some shady

organizations that they were donating to. Is it going to be vetted? Also, I would say to the players that your fight doesn't stop here. And I think that it's a great step, but in the words of babyface and Lil Wayne, don't ever get too comfortable. And I think that, you know, this is a good step, but it's going to take more than that even from the NBA, you know, a financial thing. But like I said, going to Congress

to push agendas that serve your black players and serve your black constituency and making sure that they are heard. Now, this is good and it's a start, but I think that there can be more and I think that there should be more. We'll see what happens with that. But I think there needs to be transparency. And I think that, like you said, man, it is a drop in the bucket. 300 mill is a lot, but they made billions of dollars off that TV deal. Correct. I will say this in defense of, it's really not even defense, but let me allow, like, I don't know, David Stern was great and David Stern brought this, brought the NBA into a whole new,

like, golden age. I think that Adam Silver is going to be better for this initiative than David Stern was. I think he, for some reason, I feel like he's more player friend. and if you were going to be able to advance this cause and this narrative, that he would be like hand in hand with the players, even though he works for ownership, he doesn't come across all the time. Like he works for ownership.

He comes across like we're in it together or they're in it together. And so I do think he is better suited for this job and could get it where it needs to go. I do feel that. I think that it'll be good. And I think that for all intents of purposes, Adam Silver, been more of a players commissioned than a lot of commissioners, you know. We have to wrap this up. But first one, first before we wrap it up, real one of the week.

Oh. Where we talk about somebody that, somebody or something that we just thought was real. And we, we were just, man, I like that. You go first. I think somebody hasn't found the real one of the week and hasn't done their room. But I got mine. I'm good. Okay.

My real one of the week, a real ones of the week, are the WMBA players. Oh. For once again, stepping up, players for the Atlanta Dream and other teams across the WMBA showed a defiance for Georgia Senator Kelly Loffer, who has had an adamant disdain for the Black Lives Matter movement and said a lot of disparaging things about the Black Lives Matter movement, including that the BLM should not be celebrated during the Wubble and instead should be replaced by an American flag. And she has been against the Black Lives Matter movement from the start. And players like Elizabeth Williams and other Atlanta Dream players and also players across the league,

including Sue Bird, had worn shirts, Black Lives Matter shirts, which was so gangster. They wore shirts saying, vote Dr. Rafael G. Warnock, vote him into the Senate going in the next election going on in November. It was so gangster, Raja. They came out and they used their voice and the WMBA women have used their platform for years. And I'm sure you've known this and have seen this against police brutality, against systemic racism, against homophobic slurs and things like that. They have been at the forefront of this movement. So this was another step in that direction.

And I think that they're real ones for that. They are certainly real ones. And I feel silly naming my real one after that. Because there is no debating they were the real ones of the week. There's no question. I'm going to go on to court though this week. I'm going to go with Michael Porter Jr. His stats kind of speak for themselves in terms of the way he's scoring, you know, in this bubble.

I think big picture, he's the type of piece that a Denver team, if you could kind of keep that nucleus together, would have been missing, right? that matchup problem inside, outside wing, get to the rim. I just think he's coming into his own for this Denver team at the right time. It might not be sustainable this year. He might not be ready for that. But Denver has found themselves a real one moving forward. And I'm happy for him because the injury bug is hard to navigate, especially early in that career. I like this Nuggets team going forward, bro. I really like it. If Michael Porter Jr. can sustain this for years to come and it could stay healthy, that seem going to be really good. Now, the conspiracy theories we need to talk about, we need to, somebody needs to take him to the side and just tell him to

chill out and think about science. Facts. But on the court, he has been a real one, and I think that Denver's going to be a problem going forward. So that has been the Ringer NBA show. I am Logan Murdoch, staff writer at the Ringer. And that has been Raja Bell, curator of vibes. No doubt. inspiring staff writer, former NBA player, tap in wherever you get your podcast. We'll talk to you next week on the Monday edition of the Ringer NBA show.