The Ringer NBA Show - Daryl Morey, China, and the NBA | Heat Check

Episode Date: October 7, 2019

Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey caused international ripples on Friday night after sending a since-deleted tweet in support of protesters in Hong Kong. Facing fierce backlash from the Chinese government and businesses, the NBA finds itself in a delicate balance between protecting business interests and freedom of expression. Read John Gonzalez’s reporting on this story here. Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Dan Devine, Haley O’Shaughnessy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ringer NBA show is presented by State Farm. The moment we've all been waiting for is about to arrive. The official start of the NBA season, this offseason was filled with a lot of big changes in fresh starts. For the fresh starts in your life, talk to a State Farm agent. So when it comes to insurance, you don't have to go it alone. And talk about fresh starts all over the NBA. You've got Russ now reunited in Houston with James Harden. We're going to talk about the rockets on this show.

We've got Kyrie Irvin and Brooklyn. And in fact, we're going to announce some fresh starts on the heat check program. in just a second. Fresh starts all over the place. We want you to talk to a State Farm agent today about combining your home and auto insurance and get a teammate who can help you prepare for the big changes in your life.

State Farm. Today's show is also brought to you by Dolce and Gabana's new men's fragrance, Kay by Dolce and Gabana. I think Isaac is wearing it right now. Kay by Dolce and Gabana captures the essence of a man in his element. He is the king of his everyday life,

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We are back. I am reunited once again with our producer, Isaac Lee. We're back. It's been so long. When was the last time I even talked to you? Oh, man. I mean, we were slacking all last night in preparation for this show. If any of our bosses are listening, we were working very hard on making the show happen. If any of our bosses were listening, we were working. What I meant more accurately was when was the last time you and I did a show.

It's been, what, since after the playoffs, after free agency, then I went on vacation, then you were on vacation. So approximately 16 million years ago. It's been a very long time. Many, many things have happened. And we have some changes here at HeechekHQ. We're still going to have your favorite rotating ringer personalities on the show. But we're going to have two regular contributors at the top. We're very excited about this. The ringer is a meritocracy.

The cream rises at the ringer. And only the most deserving people get promotions like this to a very prestigious show, the Heechek podcast on the NBA Ringer show. But no one is more deserving than these two people who were previously regular contributors, but now will be regular members of Heechak, and that's Dan Devine and Haley O'Shaughnessy. They're going to be off the top of the show, Isaac, with you and I every week. Very, very exciting stuff.

It is very exciting stuff. Isaac, obviously, can't contain himself. But it's He-Chek coast to coast now because Dan is in New York and Haley is in L.A. with us. So we're going to do this bic coastal thing every week, and we're going to bring them in. Now, under normal circumstances, this show would be full of frivolity. We'd run through the headlines.

We'd do all kinds of segments and things like that. and that will happen in the future. But because of everything that's happening with Darry and the NBA and China and this international kerfuffle, we're just going to get into that first and see how the show goes. But first, let's bring in the two newest members

of Heechak. Boone Shackalaka. He's heating up. All right, joining me in the studio. It's one half of the new members of the Heat Check podcast, Haleo Shonasey, and then way across the country in New York, staring at us through a computer screen, handsome face with pink sunglasses on.

I wish you guys could see. It's Dan Devine. Guys, welcome to the family. Thank you, Gans. I'm blushing. Thank you so much for having me. Haley is blushing. Dan's blushing, too. I mean, let's be honest. This is very exciting times. We're not with Irish people, so we just naturally blush. You have that natural glow about you. I'm excited for you guys to be back. I'm excited for you to be on heat check. We have a lot of things to get into, but one of them is going to dominate a discussion today.

It might be the only discussion that we have because it's so dense and we want to sort of walk through this. If you haven't been paying attention, there has been, what should we call it, an international geopolitical issue between the rockets, the Houston Rockets, and the NBA and the Chinese government. So if you missed it on Friday, Darry, so the rockets are in Japan right now for the preseason swing through Asia. And Darry tweeted an image on Friday that said, fight for freedom, stand with Hong Kong. Now, he quickly deleted that. But it was in favor of pro-democracy protests that have been going on in Hong Kong. since over the summer when there was an extradition bill introduced. And for people who aren't quite aware, Hong Kong is a special administrative region

of the People's Republic of China and operates as this sort of semi-autonomous region in what the Chinese call this one country, two systems policy. So the mainland government is obviously communist. And then Hong Kong being separated has enjoyed certain political freedoms. But that has flared up recently because the Chinese have tried to tamped in the wake of this extradition bill that's been rescinded, have tried to sort of tamp down freedom of speech and assembly. So Darry's tweet that he put up immediately became this hot button issue.

So Rocket's owner, Tillman Furtita, immediately responded to him on Twitter and sort of smacked him down and said, you know, Darryl Morey does not speak for us. He does not speak for the Rockets. He does not speak for the NBA. And gang, away we've gone. It has been one story after another that has been quite complicated. and as Adam Silver said, there are a lot of issues at work here. Well, I think the thing that we have to understand here, first and foremost,

is that Haley and I come to you as the ringer's foremost authorities on geopolitical conflict. We're the perfect trio for this. Yeah, seriously. I mean, you're like, hey, come on, come on, do the show. We'll have a lot of laughs, man. There'll be a lot of bits and fun jokes. And I was like, rad. You know, spend your Sunday cramming for, you know, decades of geopolitical conflict.

But the thing that I think we maybe share with a lot of people, people in the league office is that maybe a lot of us are doing a lot of that cramming right now and trying to figure out sort of which way is up in this conversation. Haley has just returned from Japan. So she's our resident Asia basketball correspondent and came back loaded for bear on this one. Yeah, I think that definitely when we're talking about these companies who have, as we'll get to, separated themselves from the rockets and this political climate that as basketball writers, I have not, you guns have done reporting on this.

I'm not entirely qualified to speak on that. However, monetarily for the NBA, this has huge implications. Huge implications. That's absolutely right. And you just, listen, you are quite qualified. You're already serving as a co-host because that was an excellent transition. But you mentioned that the companies that have since distanced themselves from the Rockets as a result of DeraMori's tweet. So this did not go over well. Like I immediately, just as somebody who, you know, has been paying attention to the protests that have been going on in Hong Kong and people standing up for freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. human rights, things that we take for granted in this country, although maybe less so over the last few years, you know, I thought it was a great thing that Darrow Morey did. And yet, obviously, it did not go over a while with the Chinese government and mainland China. So the Chinese Basketball Association said on Sunday, on its social media platform call, I believe it's called Weibo, that's sort of like the Chinese version of Twitter, said that Darry made improper remarks regarding Hong Kong to which the CBA expressed its strong opposition. As a result, the CBA will suspend

cooperation with the Rockets. Then you had the Chinese consulate in Houston rebuke Darry. Then you had multiple Chinese sponsors, including a sports apparel company and a bank halt their business with the Rockets. And to Haley's point, and this is the big one, there's a group called Tencent that is the digital rights holder in China. And they pulled Rockets games from the streaming service and now are offering a Switch Home Teams option. It's sort of like their league pass. They're offering a Switch home team's option for fans who bought Rockets games. So if you're the NBA and you, You just had your digital rights holder in China.

And Tencent had released a press release that said, 500 million Chinese fans. Now, who knows if these numbers are right? But they said they claimed that 500 million Chinese fans watched NBA games last year. And 21 million Chinese fans watched game six of the NBA finals. If they go to this extent and say, hey, we're done with the rockets. You're freaking out. Of course.

Yeah, the severity of it. And then it was almost instantaneous after the tweet. I mean, how long was it? So he tweeted on Friday. It was immediately deleted. And when I woke up Sunday morning Pacific time, the Chinese had decided to retaliate in any number of ways, both by rebuking Darry through statements, official in terms of the Houston Chinese consulate and also the CBA and then also the retaliation by Chinese business concerns. So what, a little less than 48 hours? Right. So then the timing and then also the severity of those bands just kind of makes you wonder, which I guess is the big.

question we're going to get to. Does this mean that they will ever be lifted so long as Mori is still in the front office? Well, that's an excellent question because the Chinese consulate said that they wanted the rocket to take immediate steps. And I'm paraphrasing on this exact language here, but to correct what had happened, concrete measures to correct what had happened, which you would think would signal, Dan, that maybe they were looking for Darrell Mori to get a little bit more than to get wrapped on the knuckles. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, you leads, you know, you talk about Sunday morning kind of the big response. By Sunday evening here in the U.S., you had Darrell Mori issuing his apology to all whom he had offended in this situation,

you know, saying, I was offering a comment based on one interpretation of one aspect of one complicated incident. And then shortly thereafter, the NBA releasing a statement that's kind of, I mean, I guess maybe the most charitable way to look at that is like it's kind of a play both sides' words salady statement. Like, we support Darrell Mori's right to. freedom of expression, but we also support Chinese businesses and the government's right to respond to that. And so then it leaves everybody in this kind of tenuous, uncertain middle, no one more certainly than Daryl Morey, who continues to find himself like wondering what the next step is. But I think it leaves everybody. You know, Adam Silver gave today his first comments

that I've seen publicly outside of that statement, a reporter named Joel Fitzpatrick with Kyoto News sat down and spoke to Adam Silver in Tokyo today where the NBA is hosting games over there. And all of the commentary from Adam Silver is very careful. There's no doubt the economic impact is already clear. There've already been fairly dramatic consequences from Daryl's tweet. And I've read some of the media suggesting we're not supporting Daryl Morey, but we are. All this reference to the NBA being like a values-based organization who understands that people have the right to educate themselves and speak their minds, but also that other people have

the right to disagree with that. It's a really complicated place for the league to be living right now, especially when you factor in the gigantic market in China that the NBA has been spending decades trying to cultivate. Also, let's not forget that in the NBA statement it ended with something like, but sports bring people together. Yeah, I mean, and I'm like, really? Are we still doing this? I think that they're caught in a really difficult spot here, obviously, because they're ill-suited for something like this. because on the one hand, yes, they do fancy themselves a hyper-progressive league, and you would expect them to stand up for exactly what Darrell Mori is standing up for, right? Like freedom of assembly, freedom of speech, human rights, making sure that democracy reigns.

And yet, the business concerns here are massive and real. And you mentioned this. And so I think the precision of the language and how they're putting this out there and the differences of the language that's being disseminated in China. As you mentioned, Dan, and the statements that were put out here in America are significant. But there's a lot to unpack here. So let's go back to the beginning here. So before Darryor-Mory issued his statement, as we reported on the ringer.com, sources told me that ownership had, and in my story, I used the word, debated, but probably considered would have been a better word.

Debated made it sound like there was some sort of really heated discussion, and I don't know that there'd be the case. I do, however, know that they had considered Darry's employment status and that Darrell was aware of those conversations happening and that there was some concern about, hey, would they possibly replace Darrell Mori because of this thing? Now, shortly after that, ownership, Tillman Fertita and Rockett's ownership pushback, they had previously told ESPN that everything is fine with Darrell and me, and I have the best general manager in the league. And from my reporting, all accounts about Fertita and Mory's relationship are that they get along fine. So Fertita, though, goes to the athletic, or is people around Fertita and says they push back

on our reporting that they never considered replacing Mory, except, and this is the hilarious part. A different athletic reporter who covers the rockets, and apologies if I butcher this name, but he did great work. Alkan Bajani, screenshoted for Tita mashing the like button on Instagram comments saying fire Mori. So right before they go, no, no, no, no, no, we weren't considering firing Mori or replacing Mori. For Tita's out there liking comments about replacing Mori. So look, we obviously stand by our reporting, and that says everything you need to know about the situation. It is not easy, by the way, to accidentally like... Multiple times.

I don't know if he said since that it was an accident, but you don't scroll on Instagram comments where you would be hitting that tiny little heart you'd really have to pinpoint on the side of comments. Skeptical boyfriends and girlfriends out there, they did it on purpose. It was not a mistake. Don't believe them.

So all I'm saying is, I don't know if he said that this was an accident. I don't know if he's going to, but that's not an easy thing to make. You're also our millennial social media expert. You fill many roles here. I'm happy to fill that role. Yeah.

So, Dan, so you mentioned the apologies that we're issued in the timing of this, and I think that this is significant. So after we report that they were considering replacing Darryor Morey, there was a gap. I had also said, hey, the league's going to put out a statement, and that did happen. And the timing of this was interesting because Darry issued his apology at 818 Eastern time on Sunday night. And his apology, I'm not going to read through all of it, but he said that he didn't intend his tweet to cause any offense to Rockets fans and friends of his in China.

This is another thing that I reported that Darrell had tweeted his support for the people of Hong Kong and the protests and the pro-democracy movement that's happening there because he has friends in Hong Kong and was concerned about their safety and what's happening there. So he said he didn't anticipate that this would blow up the way that it did. He's always appreciated the significant support of our Chinese friends and sponsors. I think that language is interesting. He was upset to see what had happened here. And then he noted that my tweets are my.

own and in no way represent the Rockets or the NBA. So that happened, what? 818 Eastern Time. At 843 Eastern Time, here comes the word soup that Dan referenced from the league saying, we recognize that the views expressed by the Houston Rockets General Manager, Darrow Moore, have deeply offended many of our friends and fans in China, which is regrettable, and they go on to apologize to China. Now, Dan, you had mentioned the Stanford PolySai student who offered the translation. Her name is I Ching Fu, and she noted the differences, she's a Stanford Pauly Sai PhD student. She noted the differences in the language of the translation of the NBA statement.

She said the NBA's original statement went like this. Recognize that Mory's views have deeply offended many in China, which is regrettable. But the translation it posted on Chinese social media said that the NBA was extremely disappointed in Mory's inappropriate statement. No doubt he severely hurt the feelings of Chinese fans. So that's significantly. You're getting two different messages in two different regions of the world. Yeah, and that was confirmed.

The New York Times had their Hong Kong team kind of go through a full translation of the NBA statement as it was released in China and found, you know, confirmed that same thing, that basically you're getting two different translations of this message, one of which the one that's going out to Chinese fans and Chinese readers offered language that, particularly that one severely hurt the feelings of many or deeply offended many in China, that hurting the feelings of Chinese people is apparently a phrase commonly used by China's foreign ministry. So there are people who look at that translation and say, oh, did the NBA kind of have help in crafting that language from somebody who is very, you know, maybe more well versed in the language used by China's foreign ministry? And then to what degree or is that relationship in forming the way the NBA is behaving overseas?

And where does that all sort of fall in with whether or not the NBA really is supporting someone who works within the league communicating and, expressing is free speech and all that stuff. I mean, it is a very complicated set of circumstances in terms of what are you really trying to say to whom are you really trying to say it and what do you mean behind all of that? And I think we're kind of all picking through all this stuff and trying to figure that out. And as always with social issues, it should just be said since they've had this statement that kind of conflicted or maybe was just read a little bit different. The precision of the language was sweet.

And then also supported in a statement, Mori, I guess we could say. As always with social issues, not taking a side is taking a side. Yeah. I mean, I think that it's really interesting here. Like you said, it begs the question about whether or not the NBA outsourced its Chinese apology to the Chinese government or if the Chinese government gave them a helpful edit on the language. And then also like the NBA, yeah, not taking aside is taking aside because it's such an incredibly complicated situation for the NBA. I mean, like, for me, I went good for Daryl Morey.

He took a moral stand. But if you're the NBA, you look at it in a different way because this is a no-win situation for the Rockets in the NBA. If they don't support Mori and somehow he gets replaced or even if they just don't stand up for him, they get crushed domestically by the negative American coverage. Because you've already seen Ted Cruz, Better O'Rourke, Marco Rubio, Julian Castro, Ben Rhodes somehow all landed on the same side of an issue. Nothing unites Americans anymore. Somehow everybody's on the same side. So if they don't support Daryl Morey in his pro-democracy stance for the people of Hong Kong, they'll get absolutely pilloried.

But then if they support Mori and he stays and they stand for him, then the Chinese are pissed off. And they've already cut off Mori and the rockets and are threatening to withhold money and what happens with the streaming service. And now this massive market that they've tapped into suddenly gets much more complicated for them and possibly like there are massive financial ripple effects and repercussions. So this is really, when we talk about like the fine line that trying to walk here, I don't envy them. Well, I mean, ask the NFL, money and morals don't always align. And you have to decide as not even just as a franchise is an entire league what battle you're going to decide to go the money route with. And this, I mean, the implications not only for the Rockets, but for the league are so huge. Not only because of the actual, like we can pinpoint the businesses that have pulled out.

and the revenue that they brought in or whatever the effect. But this is affecting a huge international fan base. The other side of this would be a really big disappointment is that the Rockets have really represented Chinese American fans here. And it's been great for them to have that. And, you know, but kind of like embrace this franchise and feel represented by that. So the fact that all this conflicts going on

is really disappointing for them as well. They are hugely popular in China. There was a recent study that I cited in my story on the ring. saying that they were the second most popular team after the Warriors. But by all accounts, if they're not second, they're first. I mean, like Joe Si, and we're going to get to Joe Sai, the owner of the Brooklyn Nets in just a second here, was saying that they're the most popular team in all of China. And in fact, last year, as one of their alternate jerseys, they had Chinese lettering

that said Houston Rockets on their jerseys as an homage to their Chinese fans. So they are huge. And obviously, Yao Ming, who played for them, is a Hall of Famer. He's the most popular player in Chinese history. He's now the head of the Chinese. Basketball Association. So there's deep ties between the Rockets Organization

and China. All right, before we continue, let's just take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. The Rear NBA show is presented by State Farm. The moment we've all been waiting for is about to arrive.

The official start to the NBA season. This offseason was filled with a lot of big changes in fresh starts for the fresh starts in your life talk to a State Farm agent. So when it comes to insurance, you don't have to go it alone. A lot of NBA players

not going it alone right now. You've got, as I mentioned, James Harden back reunited once again together with Russell Westbrook. You've got Anthony Davis and LeBron James now and with the Los Angeles Lakers. And across the way, Isaac Lee's, Clippers, you've got Kauai and PG teaming up. So a lot of fresh starts, a lot of new duos. We're excited to see what happens in the NBA this season. And we're excited for you to talk to a State Farm agent today about combining your home and auto insurance.

And get a teammate who can help you prepare for the big changes in your life, State Farm. Today's show is also brought to you by Indochino. I'm very excited about this. Indochino was founded on the belief that you don't need to spend a fortune on a custom wardrobe. I, in a previous life, had to wear suits a lot, and I like a suit. I like a suit that's cut properly. These are hard things to find at a quality cost. Indochino, however, is one of those places that will tailor your suit and not kill your budget.

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So he's come out, he owns the Brooklyn Nets now. He's a Chinese American businessman, very, very popular in China, deep business ties over there. And he has been sort of mum since taking over the Nets. And then all of a sudden this thing happens and he issues a Facebook statement that was interesting to say the least. I mean, he was definitely trying to apply pressure on the rockets, on the NBA, and where Daryl is standing up and saying, hey, I'm, with the people of Hong Kong, Joe Si went the other way.

Yeah. First in his comments to the New York Times, he started off right off the bat by referring to the Hong Kong protests and protesters as a, quote, separatist movement saying this is not really a protest about freedom of speech and freedom of assembly and freedom of expression and opposing extradition bills. This is sort of a separatist movement that puts it in line with a very different sort of ideology. Whereas, you know, for American audiences that are looking at it and saying, well, all Darrell-Mori did was say, we support freedom. Why would that be something that you would have to defend or argue for?

Josiah is saying, well, there's another way to look at this, which goes back to that Adam Silver was saying, you know, there are multiple ways to look at it. And also Darry and his apology saying, you know, I offered, you know, one thought based on one interpretation of one complicated issue. Josiah saying, well, here's the other complicated side of it. He said on Darrell-Mori, I don't know Darrell personally. I'm sure he's a fine MBA general manager. I will take at face value his subsequent apology that he was in.

not as well informed as he should have been, indicating, again, like, if you're not really deeply invested in or involved with what's happening in China, maybe you shouldn't be forming your mouth to speak on it too much. In the Facebook post, though, when really kind of like over and above, and what he referred to largely was he kept talking about there being certain third rail issues in certain countries, societies, and communities. And this one, again, he goes to that, supporting a separatist movement in a Chinese territory is one of those third rail issues.

And we're familiar with that language in the U.S., right? the idea that like politics is the third rail or religion is the third rail and there are these things that in polite company or in polite society you don't talk about because you wouldn't want to offend somebody or cause any sort of consternation and you know mess up any business dealings whatever the reality is though and you know as haley was talking about the wide variety of business interests that align here like this is like the blown up 15 times the size version of you can't stick to sports right this is like when you are talking about having decades long business interests and dealings with another culture, and then there are complicated political

realities there. You can't just say we're part of this and we want to be here and want to be involved in this culture and this society, in this business, and then say also we can't say a word about any of it, and we have nothing to do with it. You know, Tillman Fertito can say the rockets are not a political organization all they want, but they are a multinational, multi-billion dollar business that is involved in other business dealings with another country and in other country's businesses. Well, Adam Silver has said that. He said, we're not immune as a league to geopolitical issues and pressure. And now we're seeing that, right? You can say we're not a political organization, but this is politics writ large on a global scale. And I think it's interesting that, you know, U.S. senators on both sides of the aisle that I mentioned. And also I reached out to Ben Rhodes, who was the former deputy national security advisor under President Obama, who now is part of the crooked media crew with Pod Save America and Pod Save the World. And they do excellent work. And he's told me that it's been common in the past for China to bully U.S. companies.

tech and media to refrain from criticizing human rights violations. And while it may have put Mori in an awkward spot, it's much more of a warning shot at the NBA broadly. And he thinks it would be terrible for the lead to indicate that it would silence the free speech of players and executives in deference to an authoritarian government. All of a sudden, this thing is so much bigger than Darry. It's so much bigger than the NBA. It is, I mean, like, you know, we've been seeing a trade war going on between America and China.

and now this is like part of international relations. Yeah, and there was, our colleague Justin Charity wrote a little bit about the protest in Hong Kong earlier this summer in connection with also protest in Puerto Rico, so sort of a general idea of a summer of protest around the world. And you talked about that, you know, that airport protest in Hong Kong that had shut down international flights in a sort of big financial hub for a couple of days,

cancellations, chaos, mass demonstrations by several thousand anti-government protesters. And the chief executive of Hong Kong, Harry Lamb had warned the protesters at that point against pushing Hong Kong like into the abyss. That idea that the more you pursue this, the more we push this, the less we maybe have control over where it's going. That obviously coming from a control perspective that has different meanings for which side of the protest you're on. But I think for the NBA right now, that's kind of the feeling that Adam Silver might be having. Like we are about to be pushed into something or we are being pulled into something or we're propelling ourselves into something that's a big sort of black box.

We don't really know what's inside of it and what's on the other side of it for us. And I think that's where, you know, going back to that interview that he gave in Tokyo this morning with the Kyoto News, Commissioner Silver says, what I'm supporting is his, meaning Darrell Morey's freedom of political expression in this situation. I am also supporting Josai. I realize, as I said, again, these are complex issues. They don't lend themselves easily to social media. And I can't ultimately run the NBA based on trying to satisfy every.

one on Twitter. And that is, of course, the kind of frame of reference and sort of perspective that an executive like Adam Silver needs to have. You can't make decisions based on who's yelling at you about one thing or another. But you also can't ignore the commentary, not so much coming from Twitter, but from all angles. Because now, as you said, there's people on all sides of the political spectrum from all walks of life within the sports world and without it now saying, looking to what the NBA is going to do here. And it really gets to the question of what is a sports league's responsibility. The NBA is a for-profit enterprise that's aiming to maximize the amount of money it can make for its shareholders vis-a-vis the 30 governors and the 30 franchises

in the league. It's about trying to extract as much value as it can from places like China that are these gigantic markets, but it has also, as we've talked about, branded itself and presented itself as this thrusting force for social justice and sort of progressive politics and things like that. Now is where you find out, you know, when the rubber meets the road and there's something at stake, namely maybe billions of dollars, you find out what those values of a values-based organization are. And I think this is a pretty significant moment, maybe the most significant moment in Adam Silver's tenure since the Donald Sterling fiasco. That fence that he is straddling has to be super uncomfortable.

Not to mention the fact that the timing here could not be worse. Because as we know, preseason NBA, a bunch of teams go over to various parts of Asia. And you mentioned that he, Adam Silver gave an interview. so he's in Tokyo. Well, guess what else? The NBA hosts two exhibition games in China this week, and Commissioner Adam Silver will be in attendance. So on top of all the things that he just has to deal with as Commissioner Haley,

he has to go into the shitstorm that was created by his people in the NBA and sit with the Chinese and somehow figure this out. I would not want to do that. What are the two games gone? That is a great question, Haleo, Sean. See, that's why we have Dan Devine here. Dan, what are those games? Those games.

It's going to be a pay. of games between the Lakers and Nets. So, again, Joe Sye, the new owner of the Nets, prominently involved. So it looks like Thursday, October 10th in Shanghai, and a rematch on Saturday, October 12th in Shenzhen. Yeah. And, I mean, you know that they're going to feel a lot of questions for the American press for sure about that.

And as Isaac Lee, our esteemed producer, told me as he got in our year here, they also canceled the G-League game that was scheduled, one of the teams that was scheduled to play in that G-League game, the Houston Rockets affiliate. So this is going to have continued ripple effects, and it's something that we're all going to be paying attention to for at least the next short little while here.

You know, and Gons, as you mentioned, maybe the idea here is to just hopefully, if you cross your fingers and say, well, Daryl makes his apology, Adam Silver makes his statement, the league does whatever it needs to do behind the scenes to try to smooth over the business relationships, and hopefully in a couple days, we all get back to business as usual. I mean, now James Hardin has been asked about it. If the Lakers are over there, you know, LeBron James is going to get asked about it. You know, other players, you know, Josai now over there with the Nets, they're going to be asked about it. This is not something that everybody is just going to be able to know comment and kind of like blithely, you know, something's for you and something's for you forever twirling toward freedom or not freedom.

Like nobody, you're not going to be able to get away with that. Players are not going to be able to get away with that. So I don't, I think that if the hope is this goes away pretty quickly and then everybody gets back to making money, I think you, you know, maybe need to have another expectation involved. All right. So just to wrap this up here, though, like to, from a basketball perspective, because we haven't talked much about basketball. Wait, we talk about basketball in this geopolitical hotspot conversation podcast? Really? Okay. The Chuck actually does talk about basketball here. But the basketball implications of when I was reporting that they had at least considered

what to do with Darry, Darryl Mori just, I mean, you know, some people go, oh, he's never won an NBA championship. You know, nuts to that. The man makes smart decisions frequently. His reign for the Houston Rockets since I believe it was 2006 that he was hired has been the most successful in franchise history, accepting, of course, the two championships they won in the 90s with Hakeem. He's an excellent executive,

and I think Tillman Fretita, the one thing that I agree with him on is he's got the best general manager in the league. It'd be very unfortunate for him to not get to see his vision through. I'd be shocked now, considering the blowback if they did it. I'd be shocked now.

Yeah, there's the question of if you're firing Darrell Morey, putting him on the free agent market, as it were, there's a lot of teams that would love to have a guy with that kind of resume, that kind of success in his back pocket. But I wonder, though, as this continues to unfold, like, you don't want to use the word radioactive necessarily, but like, would it be a really tough time to hire somebody like Daryl Mory?

Because all these other teams have relationships in China, too. So, like, it's a very uncomfortable position, certainly for Daryl Mory. And I think trying to have everybody else around the league that's making these choices has to figure out, you know, what they're comfortable with, what's, you know, where they want to land on it. And I don't think those are easy answers for anybody. I am keeping my fingers crossed for Daryl. he's a good general manager and he did a good thing. So I hope he doesn't have to pay a price for that. You guys have done a wonderful thing. This was an excellent first show for all of us. I'm jet lagged. I thought we were going to talk about M. Beets height. You come in here.

I don't care what the numbers say. He's a legit seven-footer. Before the show, Gons threatened me. He was like, look, this is your tryout. If you this up, you're never coming back on the show. And then this is what we talk about. I would never do that. Pass with flying colors. Haley, you censor yourself now? If you bleep this up, come on, Haley. I would never do that. She knows that I'm one of her biggest fans, and she acquitted herself wonderfully, as did Dan Devine, as did Isaac Lee, per usual. Gang, I promise you, next week, he checked back to stupid frivolity and basketball conversations, and we're going to laugh and love,

and it's going to be wonderful. Thanks to all three of you guys for having an excellent show. Thank you for listening to us. Please rate and review us on Apple Podcast. Please read all of our excellent content on the rigger.com. Listen to the NBA show on the ringer podcast network as the NBA season rapidly approaches. Keycheck will be back next week and every week thereafter with our brand new roster. We're excited. Thanks for listening, gang. Bye.