The Ringer NBA Show - David Aldridge on the Washington Wizards, the Current Generation of NBA Stars, and the Deteriorating Relationship Between Players and the Media | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 1, 2022

Logan and Raja are joined by legendary sportswriter David Aldridge to highlight the obstacles keeping the Washington Wizards from breaking through in the modern era and what makes the D.C. area an attractive destination (4:51). Next, they discuss the changing of the NBA guard and the quality of play in today’s league (26:54). Along the way, Aldridge explains what it takes for a team to establish good culture (36:27). Later, they talk about the increasingly disconnected relationship between players and the media (46:21). Finally, the guys close out with their Real Ones of the Week (1:06:17). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: David Aldridge Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The time has come to get ready for the 2022 World Cup. And what better way to prepare than by revisiting the World Cup's most amazing goals? I'm Brian Phillips. I'm making a podcast about the history of the men's World Cup, told through the stories of 22 iconic goals. The show's called 22 goals. It's out now on the Ringer podcast network, and we're having so much fun. Real ones. Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Roger, we have a guest who is a legend turned to the show. And he's really, really, really ready to bring his American University propaganda here,

especially after on the heels of the American Eagles beating the Georgetown Hoyas. Oh. He's ready to go. We whipped that ass. Tell coach you a little bit of the ass. Yeah, yeah. It's David Alters in the motherfucking building. What's up, David?

How you doing, bud? I am excellent, man. My Eagles have won five straight. We were good, man. We got to show me. We might actually be decent this year, Roger. Yeah, hey, listen, man. I grew up a Hoyas fan, but I'm not, hey, it's been some slim years here, man.

So I say go get it. If y'all can get it, get it. It's been tough. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I got a question for you guys. I have a question for you guys right now. We know that DA is in the D.C. area, and we know that Raja is a very big Miami, the U fan, right?

He's a big Miami fan, right? Sure. Is Georgetown the U of college basketball? Oh, that's not a bad comp, actually. I mean, it was. It's not anymore, but it was. I think it was a very good comp. Back in the 80s, it was.

Sure. Yeah, that's pretty interesting. I mean, more like they fall. They're great at a time, and they've fallen from grace. And they have not, and they've been using the past propaganda to get back, is what I'm saying. Well, it's not helping. I mean, I don't mean, I'm not trying to be,

I'm not trying to be mean because I know Pat's got a tough job up there, but it's just tough. You know, it's hard to, look at how long it took Indiana to get back after Bobby Knight left. I mean, it took a long time. It looks like Woody's got the thing rolling again, but it took a long time when you follow a legend. It's going to take, I'm telling you, it's going to take Duke a minute, okay? It just doesn't, you don't replace Coach Kay. You don't replace John Thompson. You know, they're larger than life.

And to your point, I mean, the similarities are very, very apt because Georgetown became a national program, just like the U became a national program, you know, with a national following. So, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good, good call, Logan. It is. And you know what? It's hard to do, too. It's hard when, you know, you're following that legend or those legends. And that next generation, a kid doesn't see the success. Like, I'm dealing with this to some degree with my son, DA, not to harken it back, but like, I love the U.

and he's, you know, becoming a recruitable high school player. Yeah. And the U.S. had, we go to home games, like, we have seats and tickets. They just haven't been relevant in a way that would make him feel the same sort of, you know. And so it's really, it's a difficult thing because now that kid who would have, like, Roger Bell would have died to go to Georgetown. Right. You know, his sons might not.

Yeah, yeah. No, that's right. That's right. And you got to give, you know, other programs that have, I think, and you know this, Roger. I mean, when you have kids who are, who, who excel at anything, like, you have to let them run their own race. You know what I mean? Like, you can't be about, well, go to my, go to your old man's school, you know, like, it just doesn't work. You know, they have to go where they want to go and do what they want to do.

So, but yeah, there's no doubt. And even in D.C., I mean, Georgetown's just not what it used to be in terms of having all the attention. this time of year. Well, it wasn't all, it was always George, Santa, Maryland. Those were the two schools that always were kind of clashing and had all the, all the juice and all the attention. Because Maryland had a really good run, you know, even before, before Gary got there and then sent, you know, and Gary won a national championship and all that, but even, you know, over that 20, 25,

because Lefty had a role in there, too. I mean, they were top five when Lefty when I was a kid. So, so it's always, but Georgetown was always in the discussion for 20 years. And now they're not anymore. And it's, it's sad, you know, because it's got such a great history and pedigree and so many great players came through there, including Patrick for that, man, you know, especially Patrick. You know, he's the one to put him on a map, really. So, you know, but it happens. It's cyclical. Speaking of DC teams trying to cling the relevancy, let's talk about the Washington Wizard, Raja.

Yeah. Yeah, he's getting really good at those, man. His transitions are going to segways. Listen, I'm in a bag. I've been in a bag this season, D.A., I can't hold you. I want to talk about the Wizards specifically. I was in a, I just, I remember when the Wizards kind of went on their, they had a good little start this season. And by good start, they started 2 and 0 and then, you know, started the 10 and 7.

Yeah. And I remember hitting someone, you know, who would be in the know around there. And I was like, yo, are the, are the, are the wizards going to the, just jokingly tongue and cheek? I was like, are the Western Conference finals? What's going on? What's popping? And they were like, the text I got back was, just you wait. They are going to find themselves back into mediocrity.

And right now they're 11 and 11 after a loss to the nets. I know their offseason was basically, you know, Bradley Bill stayed. We're going to figure out how he's going to play alongside Porzengis. What's your report card, right? now on the Wizards right now. And why are they the team that seems to just perpetually be in the middle? And is there hope for the Wizards going forward? They're perpetually in the middle because they choose to be in the middle. That's from ownership on down. They choose to be in the middle. You know, Ted Leonsis, who owns the team famously said a few years ago that he will never tank.

He said, in factions, we will never, ever, ever, ever tank, forevers, right? So, okay, if you're not going to tank, which is a decision, and I'm not saying you're wrong to have that philosophy, because tanking involves a lot of losing. Losing is hard on a franchise. It's hard on a fan base. There's no guarantee that you're going to win after you stop losing. I mean, it took Philly a minute, and it took OKC is still trying to come out of that, and Houston's still trying to come out of that. It's not easy. But if you're not going to tank, then you have to, if you're trying to win, go get some free agents that can help you win.

You know what I mean? Like there's no middle ground here. But they're trying to find this middle ground where they kind of do it incrementally and get a little bit better every year, add a little more talent every year, which they have done over the last three years. But to your point, what does it mean? Where are they? And I still don't think that they are a serious contender in the Eastern Conference. I mean, the teams that are serious, the teams that are always serious in basketball,

the teams that guard people, that defend people, and the wizards still aren't there yet. They're better than they were. They're trying to do more. Wes Unsell comes from a place in Denver that had a great defense, had great defensive metrics, and was the, you know, the defensive coordinator with Mike Malone. Michael Malone, sorry, coach. I guess, I wouldn't say Mike. but they're not there yet.

Part of that, his injuries, DeLon Wright, was helping him a lot early in the season. He got hurt. He's been out for a month now with a hamstring. But part of it is just your roster construction. Like, the best defender they have is Chris Stops for Zingis. And I'm by a lot, actually, that now the Wright is not on the floor. Like, he is by far.

If you look at the advanced numbers on 538 and all those plays, He says he's actually quite good at the rim. Like, he really is good at the rim. Like, his defensive numbers are really good. But he shouldn't be your best defender. That's the whole point. Like, you know, it's... And so they're not getting that night-in, night-out commitment to defense.

Like, they played Minnesota the other day, the game that Kat got hurt. And they came out hot, and KP made, like, four threes in the first five minutes of the game, and they put 38 up in the first quarter. And then it was just your turn, my turn. It was just trading baskets for three quarters. Like there was no, let's stop these guys. Let's end this game now. Let's have an easy second half.

If we play hard defense for six minutes, we can get these guys out of here. And everybody can rest in the second half. But instead, it's just trade basket, your turn, my turn. And then they wound up, it's not like Minnesota got back in the game, but they didn't. It should have been a 40-point blowout and wound up winning by like, You know what I mean? And that's what they do. That's their MO, is that they don't really put the pedal to the metal down defensively and get stops when they need to. And until they start doing that,

until that becomes who they are, I don't know that they're ever going to be anything more than, you know, okay, 40 wins, 42 wins, 45 wins. There's, look, guys, there's one team in the NBA that hasn't had a 50-win season in the last 40 years. 40. 40. 40. 40. years. And a 50 win season ain't even all that. That's just kind of like the baseline for a good team. Like do you think pop is like, wow, we won 50 games. Let's have a parade. You know, like that's not, no, that's just kind of like, that's at minimum what you have to do to be a legit team is win 50. And they won 50 games since 1979. Yeah, that's, that's nuts. And it's, look, Logan, I say it on here all the time. And that stuff starts from the top. I think you set it off

the bat DA. Like, that's a decision. That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, player's head. Yes, you've, you've made an organizational decision to be in that space. I do think, I agree with you that their roster, I think it's, it's, it's trending. I think they're moving pieces and trying to get to a place. I can see the vision. I always talk about this roadmap from getting from this place we're talking about DA as a franchise to where you're trying to go. And as you move around the pieces, I got to see the plan start to materialize in front of me, like with your, with your roster construction. I, I can at least see the first steps of that.

Here's my question, though, and I love Bradley Beal. I think he's great. I almost feel guilty asking the question, but I think I'd be remiss if I didn't. Or is that the number one piece on a team that's perennially a 50-win team for a stretch of time that has a window of time to win a championship? Like, with his skill set, I don't know him, mind you. And I'm not, I'm asking because I haven't been around him. His talent and his production kind of speaks for itself.

But there's a lot more that goes. into that, you know that, DA. Like, that's not just a skill set role. Is he built like that? I would, here's what I was say about, about Brad. I would say, like, it's very hard, you know this, only elite wins in the NBA. Right. Only elites.

Not really good, not All-Star. Right. Not even all NBA. No, elites. Like, you've got to be top five guy. You know, you have. And I don't even think Brad would say he's a top five guy in this league. Right?

Fair. So I think he will be a great number two. He would be a really great number three. You'd be living really large if he was your number three. But if you're number two, he would be fine. Right. I think. And again, they got within a game of the Eastern Conference Finals with Bradley Beale and John

Wall, with Peak John Wall, with John Wall playing at his best. being if not top 10, maybe a top 15 player those two years when he was healthy. And I think that's the model. Now, can Porzingis be that guy? I mean, I don't think so, probably. But so they need to make, I think they're a trade short. You know what I mean? Like, they need to make more trade to get a really dynamic player to play alongside KP and Brad.

and then maybe you run it back with that group and see how far you can go. What's hurt them is that their drafts have not been that good the last few years. What I mean by that is that they've taken a bunch of high-floor low-ceiling guys. Like Rui Hachamora, he's a good player. He's not bad.

Deni Adia, he's not bad. He's okay. But there's no great there. I don't see any great. And so that if you take a guy in the draft in the top 10, Well, they could have taken Halliburton. That's all I'm going to say. He was there.

He was there. And they didn't do it. So that's the kind of mistakes that they keep them back, have held them back. You brought up Bradley Bill. And I can't think of a more, talking about last summer, I can't think more of like a non-inspired resigning of a superstar in a long time or a really good all-star in a long time. What is Brad Beal's relationship with the city? And what is inspiring for him, both him and the team for him coming back at that point in time, right?

Because there were other times where he could, me and Rajah have begged him to just ask for a trade and get up out of there and just and see what else the league has to offer. I know there was interest with the Warriors. I know there was interest in other places around the league. How is this marriage going to work going forward, right? Is he just content with staying in D.C. for the rest of his career? Or is like, what is the future of Brad Bill in D.C.? I give Bradley credit for this. He could have, as you said, and it would have been very easy for him to ask out.

You know, I give, I respect Bradley Biel because he's not asking out. Because he wants to make it work here. He wants to be the focal point of a championship team in D.C. And very few guys in his position would agree to that. We want to be that guy. We'll want to be, what's the, Cal Ripkin, you know, in Baltimore, play your whole career for one team. Ain't too many guys that really are trying to do that, you know?

Now, why is he, you know, let's not be, let's not be naive. He got a quarter of bill to stay. The bag. Come on. Come on. We're securing the bags. You know what I mean? Like, come on.

And I'm not hating on him for that, by the way. I do the same thing. You know, so. So that was definitely at front of mind when it came to making his decision. So I'm not going to, I can't hate, I can't hate on Brad for wanting to do it. I think the team, I have said this and written this, that they should have traded him two years ago. The team should have done that because that would have been the time they could have gotten a whole bunch of possibly high draft picks, maybe a couple of young players and they could have restarted, you know, they could have.

have started a rebuild, a real one. You know, and they chose not to do that because, I mean, honestly, I think the owner wants to just be good enough to make the playoffs every year. I think that's his goal. Like, okay. I mean, that's a strategy. That's a goal, but it's not, it wouldn't be my goal if I owned a team. You know, I would want to try to win a championship, you know, because you have, you know,

what's the point otherwise? Why are we doing this? You know what I mean? Like, um, so. But Brand wants to try and make it work here. The team is better. It's way better than it was two years ago. Now the problem is, what did they do next summer?

Because both Porzingis and Kyle Kuzma can opt out, and I'm sure they will opt out. Why wouldn't they opt out, right? So now you've got to decide, are we going to pay luxury tax on a team whose ceiling is maybe the second round? Maybe. That's a big maybe. They could win around if things went right and broke right. But after that, I mean, they're not, this is not a conference finals or finals level team. They don't have the guy.

You know, they don't have John Morant here. He's not here. Like, just my opinion. I don't think they have them, you know? So how do you, and it's hard to get one of those guys. It's really hard to get one of those guys. So that's where I think they are. But I really do, I do not hate on Brad at all.

for being loyal. I think loyal is an admirable thing, and I respect the fact that he wants to stay here and try to make this work here. We talked about Brad a lot, and I've kind of, I'm pretty sure I said similar things to DA in that regard. Like, look, I respect a dude for standing there saying, I think we can make this work. I think that the organization will get it right. I certainly respect the dude for getting a bag and making sure that you've secured, you know, legacy and all of that kind of stuff for the family and and generational type of shit. I just were, you know, you sit back like, you know, I'm 10 years removed now. And I wouldn't say regrets, but, you know, looking back gives you a different perspective on, man,

like that window was a lot shorter than I thought it was. You know, you thought it was going to be open forever. It felt like forever when you were in it and then sitting back 10 years removed from it. It went like that. And what would I have done differently in my way of signing things or taking opportunities, you And that's always interesting because I do believe him to be really super talented. And I think you're right. I think he's, I think if you put him in Porzingis as your 2A and 2B or 2 and 3,

you know, now we're cooking. But I think you're kind of going to be stuck in that same spot. And that's just an interesting thing to, you know, I hope Brad Biel finds a way at some point to be on a team, whether it be in Washington or somewhere else where he can say, hey, we really have a viable shot at this. I agree. And like I said, they got to make another. trade and I don't know that they have I don't know that they have the inventory to make you have the

pieces they don't have pieces I mean to get it you're giving up one of one of the two we're talking about right exactly so you trade porzingis for a great point where are we're back to where we were five years ago you know like so yeah it's and it's difficult and again that's why you have to hit on the draft you have to get that guy in the draft Cleveland isn't Cleveland if they don't get Mowbly that changes everything but they got Mowgli you know what I mean like that but you have to hit on who's on a rookie contract for five years that allows you to build around him when he's not really making that much money.

You know what I mean? So that's the problem. That's why I thought they should have, I mean, I'm not, that makes me especially smart. I just said this last summer was, y'all got to go all in to get up into this top three. You got to do whatever you have to to get one of these top three guys in the draft, you know?

And now it's too late. They win too many games. They can't tank now. You know, they're not, they're not going to get Wimbunaya. You know, like so, so you're, you're kind of stuck now, you know, unless you move up to get to and get Scoot Henderson, which you know, he's, he's legit. But you have to put a lot of, you'd have to trade a lot of pieces to do that. When I think, we talked about this, you know, pre-Pi DA, but when I think about D.C., like, it's a beautiful city. It's a beautiful area.

It's great in the wet, great, great, great, great, great. East Coast City, phenomenal. Is this city a player away from being like a, you know, just coming all out for hoop? Like, are they, are they, is DC a sleeping giant? Like, I feel, because everywhere else I think, I think about Dematha. I think about, we just talked about Georgetown. I think about, I think it be a great. The whole DMV area, dog, that's it.

No, no. Can I'm so hard. Sorry, DA, because this is your home. So let me. This is, having played in every level of hoop coming up. Yeah. You always, some of the best hoopers at every level, some of the thirstiest, most, like, basketball hungry,

steeped in tradition type of players from the ground, literally the black top up, come from that damn area, bro. That's where they come from. Come on, man. If you put an all-star team full of dudes from the DMV, I will put that team against anybody, just anyone. Well, our starting forwards are Kevin Durant and Elgin Baylor. Who are yours?

that's what we're rolling out you know what I mean so you know so yeah no no come on this is a this is a basketball town it's always been a basketball town I've always said that written it said it as loudly and as often as I can

because it's the truth because people got caught up in the team that was known as the Redskins back then thinking that there's a football town and it's not there's no football tradition here People love that one team because they were successful. But there's no, I mean, there's good high school football here, but nothing compared to Georgia and Texas and Florida.

It's not even close, right? There's no college football tradition of any kind in D.C. None. None. And there's, you know, but compared that to basketball, you mentioned my alma mater, Demath Catholic high school, is Father James insisted. Talk to them.

You know, and the history, not just, not just DeMatha, but Spingarn, where Sherman Douglas played, and where so many great players played over the years in the century, you know, going back into the dayday, so many guys. And McKinley and St. John's and Paul the Sixth now, the Catholic Leagues and the D.C. public schools, there's just, you know, Dave Bing, that's what I was trying to think of, played at Spingarn, Hall of, Famer back in the day. About Dunbar, those schools. Dunbar, you know, and then you talk about college basketball.

You talk about Georgetown and Maryland, you know, being top five schools every year, you know, and even GW made the elite eight once, you know, my little school has the last guy to average 20 and 20, Kermit Washington, who played in NBA, an NBA player for many years. So even a little school like mine had an NBA player go there, you know, so. Yeah. And then the bullets were great. When I was a kid, they made four finals in 10 years. You know, so it's always been a basketball.

I've always said there's three NBA cities. If they get it right, guys will do anything to play there. Atlanta, Washington, Golden State. That's it. If you unlock them, it's going to be a gold mine. You're going to print money. Golden State unlocked it. They figured it out.

they're playing in a $2 billion arena as a result of me. You know what I mean? So that's the task for Atlanta's kind of get on the way there, and Washington's not there yet. But if they ever figure it out, it's going to be ridiculous here. Oh, man, I hope, I hope for D.C.'s sake. Let's take a quick break. I want to talk about the changing in the garden NBA when we get back.

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1,800 522470, Wyoming, or visit www.w.w.1-800 gambler.net, West Virginia. Hey, Logan, it's Rob Arvilla from 60 songs that explain the 90s. It's come to my attention that you and I share Kerm as a producer. which makes us podcast mortal enemies now. So fuck you. But before I go, I just wanted to ask you who you think the Cavs finals MVP will be. And why is it SETI Osman? And we are back.

So I'm watching, I'm perusing the, the, the, uh, I'm perusing NBA TV. And I'm perusing, you know, just, just basketball last night, DA. And, you know, I just see two great performances from Deep Book and, uh, Jason. Tatum, just incredible. And this is something that me and Roger talk about on the show a lot, but just like it feels like we're in the midst of a changing of the guard, right?

And this happens a few times. You know, it's happened a few times in the NBA. I think like the biggest, you know, 84 is one of those swing points, obviously. I think post-lockout in 99 is another kind of inflection point. Where do you think we are

as a league right now in the NBA? Are we, because, you know, the KD's and the and the and the and the bronze are beginning to phase out sure sure sure and it seems like we're who are the next guys that you're seeing and where are we at as a league right now

where do you where do we think are we in this transformational phase where do you where do you see it? Oh I think the league I think the quality of play is better than it's ever been but I don't think it's even close you know and I'm you know I revere the old days I revere the you know I prefer the game the times when people actually hated each other

I like that. And we punch each other and getting fights. I like that. I love that era. But that's what I grew up with. You know, so I respect this era. I respect what these guys are doing.

You know, you know this. I mean, both of you guys know this. I mean, Steph's the most amazing player I've ever seen. It's amazing. You know,

and even he's, what, 34 now? So he's kind of on the other side of it. So, but, but the new generation, next generation, look,

I mean, whether Janus, Whether it's Janice or Book or Tatum or Jha or Luca. I mean, these guys are ridiculous, man. They're so good. You know, it's so the, the talent level has never been better in this league. I think the league is in great hands. I think it's in great shape.

You know, I think I do still think it's important that the Lakers and the Celtics and the Knicks and, you know, and the biggest market teams, I think it's important that they're good. I do think it's important. It helps, but it's not necessary. Like, you know, people, it's different now. The world's, you know, because of social media and everything, it doesn't really even matter where you are anymore. You know what I mean?

Like, so if Memphis gets to NBA finals, I don't think people are going to lose their minds and go, you know, it's just like when Phoenix and Milwaukee were in a couple years ago, it was great finals. People loved it. It was terrific basketball, you know? So I don't think people are as perplexed. as they used to be when it comes to, well, if the big cities aren't in the finals,

I'm not going to watch. They'll watch John. They'll watch John. You know what I mean? Like, they're going to watch those guys no matter where they're at, you know. And if, you know, if Shea Gildjus, if LKC ever gets good, they're going to watch Shea Gildjus because he's nice. You know what I mean? Like, he's really nice. So that I think the league from that standpoint is in really good shape. You know, my issues with the league are more about the things that they think they have to do to kind of gin up interest, you know, like in-season tournaments and the play-in tournament and all that stuff, which I really, I really don't like because, you know, I just, to me, what's the point of playing 82 games if everybody gets into the playoffs?

What was the point then? Why don't you just start? Why don't you just have an 82 game playoffs then? You know, you play the regular season to eliminate the media. ochre teams. That's the whole point of the regular seasons. Because once you get to the playoffs, it's supposed to be the best teams in the league playing against each other. So I don't think the play in tournament works against that

kind of argument. I'm just not for it. But I understand because it keeps more fans interested and the more teams get in and the ratings go up and I get it. I agree with DA again. The league has never been as skilled as it is right now. The quality of play across the board, like from the top

of your roster through the meat in the middle of it down to the to the last guy never been as skilled ever as it is right now and that you know for a for a viewer who's who's grown up watching the style of play that's on display now like you need that you didn't necessarily need that when DA's talking about being a huge fan and when I came up because there weren't too many dudes they were out in space with the ball doing it so like you could get away with having two dudes who could do it Because of the style of play now, everybody's got to do it, and they do. Like, the league is in great hands in that regard. It's just going to be fascinating for me, like, all of those names that you just talked about.

I mean, Janice has one already, but who's going to grab that shit? Yeah. Next time. Who's going to come out and put a chip on the table and then, you know, double down and try to get, like, that's going to be interesting to watch over the next few years. Who's the first to that, to the table with that? It's hard to not think it's going to be Tatum, man, the way they're playing. Yeah, they're tough.

Dude, and they're not even playing good defense yet. You know what I mean? Like, this is all offense. This is historic offense that they're just bludgeoning people. When they get locked in defensively, as we've seen them do, we know they can do it. Oh, my Lord. Well, it's interesting with Tatum because, you know, me and you both were at the finals this year, D.A., where Tatum, it seemed like he was coming of age.

Time will play it out, but it seemed like, oh, this is the time where he gets punts in the chest, and he's figuring himself out. Do you think he's about to take that next step in terms of like, yo, this is my conference. Like, this is going to be between me and Yannas for the next 10 years. This is us. I mean, I always think, and Roger would know much better than you or I. I just always think that the crucible of the playoffs,

you either learn and get even meaner and tougher or you fade away. I don't think there's any middle ground. And so when you play at that level and you're playing against, you know, champions, like Draymond and Steph and Clay, champions. And they come into your place and step drops

drops it on you, gives you the good night. You either learn from that and get leaner and tougher or you go away. You know what I mean? Like, they came in and said, no, no, no, no. Y'all ain't champions yet. Because you ain't beat us yet. You know what I mean? And that's how they rolled in there.

Well, there's nothing like, there's nothing like when a team celebrates in your building. There's nothing. There's nothing like it, bro. When you got to see it at acidity. Yeah. And I think Jason was like, oh, okay. All right.

All right. That's what you got to do. Okay. I got you. I got you. And I think he will learn from that. And I think they will. You know, and you never know about injuries.

That's always what happened. It's always the healthier team in the playoffs and in the finals. So it winds up winning at 90, 95% of the time. But if Boston's healthy, man. I mean, let's give him Milwaukee a pass because we ain't really seen Middleton yet, and he changes their whole calculus. Also, Janus, man. Janice, Janice is Janice is Janice. He's great.

Don't get me wrong. But I'm saying as a team, the Bucks become a championship team when Chris Middleton's playing at his best. 100%. You know what I mean? Like he did during the finals a couple years ago, you know, like so. So those two teams to me are clearly head and shoulders above everybody else in the east. That Jason Tatum thing.

I do think, and we've had that conversation before, Logan, about him and the playoffs, what you wanted to see from him? We had that, what should he be working on? What does this mean for him? And we had talked about, you know, the natural arc of a young superstar and having to face the hurdles, the MJ thing with the Pistons and the Celtics and understanding what that looked like moving forward, what he had to adjust and change in his regimen to be prepared for it. And, you know, you can see that in Jason Tatum.

I mean, Jason Tatum is a star, but you look at his game. I mean, he's shooting more free throws per night. He's shooting a higher field goal percentage. Like, there are little micro changes and adjustments that he's making in his game that if you're really watching him, they're going to bear fruit in the playoffs. Now, whether that gets him over the hump this year or not remains to be seen. But the fact is, it's learning. Like, he didn't go away to DA's point.

Like, he's back 31 and a half a game. Like, yo, you'd be. beat me. Fuck it. That's where you beat me. I wasn't ready for it. But I went back to the drawing board. And, um, you know, that, that's pretty cool to watch. And he's got, he's got something that, that I don't think the other ones really have to the same degree. And it's, it's that, uh, you know, that, that true roster construction around him in, man, like that, that having fucking Jalen Brown, you know, I'm just going to use Jalen Brown, right? Like, he's got a bunch. He's got Marcus Smart. He's got all that. But having a cat like Jalen

Brown where if, and it's hard to quantify this, but if I shouldn't be on that night, he's got it. Yeah. Man, that's a huge, that's a huge weight that if you needed to get off your chest, you could get it off your chest, right? For any given reason, you're not just carrying that around where it's all on my shoulders every night, even though he produces every night, you know, like he's got that in his back pocket in a way that some of those other youngans don't really have it. D.A., what is it about also the Celtics?

We all know what happened two months ago. You know, and this team, this is a team that is, I think if you look at like their last five, six years, they've gone through like a lot of changes. And also a lot of changes that would break teams, right? Where you talk about even, you know, Kyrie and All Star leaving, you know, and then also talk about what happened, uh, with the MAU doca situation. Somehow Boston has just kind of continually just been around. We don't give enough credit to just teams that are just around throughout, through a lot of trials and should be like, What is it about Boston that it just, that makes them one of those teams? I want to talk about Phoenix in a second who's also a team like that.

But specifically, why is Boston like that? Well, I mean, first and foremost, they got Jason Tatum. Let's not get it twisted. You know, you can kind of come back year after year when you have guys that good. To Roger's point, when you got two guys that good, you know, you don't really go away. But, but along with that, which I think is just as important, we talked about this earlier with the Wizards. they got different standards in Boston. Okay?

You know what I mean? Like, you go, like, during the finals last year, because there was just so much media, I had to sit, I had never been this high up in any arena ever. I was literally in the rafters. Oh, you were in the hockey seating, too? I was in a hockey press box.

And dude, those banners hit you different when they're in your face. Bro! You know what I'm wrong? Yes. You go, 1957, NBA, champions, 1958, NBA champions, that Boston propaganda is different.

That Boston propaganda is different. Dude, them cats, that's no joke. I always tell people, man, when I first started, when I was at the Washington Post, you covered everything. When I first started, so one of the things they said, we need you to go cover is a Stanley Cup playoffs. And I don't know nothing about hockey, but I was like, all right, I'll give it a shot, you know.

So they said, I had to go up to Montreal, so they were playing the Bruins in a series. And I went to, it's the old Montreal form. They got a new arena now, but this was the old Montreal forward. Dude, they haven't got no conference championship banners up in Montreal. They ain't got no division championship banners up in Montreal. Stanley Cup champions, that's it. That's all we care about up here is Stanley Cup.

That's all the Celtics care about is NBA championships. And that's the standard you have to live up to if you play for the Boston Celtics. So that's why they come back. all the time. That's why they're never out of it. That's why the Miami Heat are always there, because that's the standard they have. You're trying to make it the first round and be pleased.

You know, like, that's not what we do. You know, we're trying to win a chip every year. And so that's why I think the Celtics consistently are there. In addition to the great talent they have, is that standard that they, that they are not going to accept mediocrity in Boston when it comes to the basketball team. What that should look like as a way player, Roger,

when you go on and see that Parquet foreign in banners, bro, what that look like? You know, I was a young player. It is kind of daunting, man. When you go places like that in the Lakers and you got some minutes pregame and you're always in your element and focused on getting these jumpers up,

making your said number of shots, what's on the clock, when do I got to get back to my locker? probably got to talk to DA a little bit and maybe Logan. You know what I mean? You have a daily kind of itinerary that you just keep track of when you're an NBA player. But when you steal those three or four minutes, when you ain't got nothing to do and you can be in a place like L.A. and Boston and kind of look around and it smacks you in the face. Like who played on those courts?

Like what type of teams are being cheered for in those arenas? It is kind of overwhelming at times. I mean, you know, we all grew up as fans of the game. I grew up hating the Celtics. I hated Larry Byrd and Kevin McHill, Danny Aange, and Robert Parrish and those dudes. But had the utmost respect for him, right? Like, because they were some cold-blooded killers. They just were meeting my teams.

So when you look up and you see those, like, it is pretty fascinating, man, the emotions to start to course through a player even as an opponent when you're there. But I just think you can't overstate or understate how important the culture is. And that's what DA is describing. It's the same thing that we talk about just on the flip side when you're talking about teams like Minnesota and at least Sacramento over the last five or six years as to why they don't do that.

It's because they don't have that established culture that is in place. And it doesn't matter who you bring in because this is from the top down. That's where it's established. You talk about cultures. And I wanted to get to Phoenix really quickly because they're also just like a very interesting case study and culture, right?

Because they've also had their shit in the beginning of this season and also seasons prior with their ownership. I always think about the successful Phoenix teams. They've always had a good infrastructure in spite of that. Like Sarver's always been the owner of the team. And Roger can attest when they were good, they had a really, really good culture. And I see what's going on now. How do you see that they've been able to weather that storm? this season and still be a really successful ball club,

one of the best in the Western Conference. It's still now like a title contender again. They're right back in the mix. They were smart enough or lucky enough, however you want to phrase it, to bring in a guy like Monty Williams and to bring in Chris Paul, right? That's right.

You talk about culture resetters. You know, these are people that come from winning organizations and Chris Paul, as you know, is, you know, the most driven, hard to play with. And I mean that in the best possible way, hard to play with God. Because he demands so much of you, you know? And Moni just, in a different way,

demands so much of you in terms of always being present and always doing the right things and not skipping steps, right? And so it's not a coincidence that they went from 30 wins, you know, 25 wins with the things. Same guys. You know, book was on that team, Aiton was on their team, the same guys. Bridges was on that team, yeah. To 55, 60 wins when they brought Monty Williams and Chris Paul in. You know, you need somebody to kind of say, this isn't good enough. What you're doing isn't good enough if you're trying to be about something in this league. And that's why, like Roger says, culture matters. And when you have bad culture, it shows. And when you have good culture, it shows. And that's why I don't understand. why you wouldn't want to have good culture.

Like, it's not rocket science. You have to have people in there who aren't ever satisfied. Yeah, yeah. You know what's interesting. I mean, DIA, you're a parent, man. You know, so like culture, sure, like you would want to have good culture, right? Yeah. But you know that raising something and putting standards in place

and working through goals with your child and, you know, trying to game plan and map out how we're going to get there and trying to teach them to be a good human being and holding them accountable in those spaces and those times when they fail, but being consistent enough that they know that messaging isn't going to change so that you're actually raising something the right way. That's not easy work. No, it's not.

So, like, that's what happens in a lot of those instances. Like, players, you can't fool a player. Right. You could talk that shit. You could be all up in your first meeting talking about, hey, this is how we do it. And we're going to do it and two weeks into that shit, They're going to be players sitting around a table playing a car talking about boy, he ain't shit.

Man, it's my eyes over. You know what I mean? So, like, you, that's the hard part, right? They all want it. But, you know, and it's, I didn't mean to turn this into a Brooklyn thing or any other team, but like, that's what happens when organizations start dancing and, and, and, and dipping and dodging and acquiescing and doing shit like that. Bro, you lose all credibility.

Exactly. Exactly. And even when you're doing it for the sake of, like, because you're just most in Brooklyn. Even when you're doing it for the sake of trying to appease your best star, trying to do it for the sake of trying to win, that shit don't work. But you can't, but you can't do that. That's why I always, you know, we all watched The Last Dance. And even you know, even though they, they sort of gave Jerry Krause his respect. They didn't really, you know. But Jerry Krause was the one guy that would tell Michael Jordan, no, I'm not doing that.

I'm not making that trade. I'm not doing it. And got vilified for it. You know, in the back end, right? And you need somebody in the building to say, no, we're not doing that. You know. And so, and you need a coach and Phil Jackson to go, yeah, you know, yeah, you're great, but you ain't one shit. So, you know, you need to try something different, bro. You know, and have the respect factor that Michael acquiesced and tried to do it,

do something different. They wound up winning six chips because of it. I mean, what is every, what is every superstar? Like, there's always a common thread. You have to earn their respect, right? Where by earning their respect, you've got to sometimes stand up to him. Steve Kerr is a perfect example of that, right? Like, just you have to.

Have to. And that goes all the way down. If there's not accountability on this pot or on this, on this pod. If we've got accountability on this pod. I know you're not getting to each other after the show. Yeah, yeah. You already know. All the top.

We're going to buy. There ain't going to be accountability on this pod. There ain't going to be accountability on this pot. But you got to have the speech. Speaking of accountability, though, DA, I've been really meaning to have this conversation with you and Raja, you know, for the last few months or ever since we were going to have you on the show. But where do you think we are in the relationship between media and basketball in general? Where do you think we are in that? Because we're in this, in this large, in this stage where me and Roger always talks about, talk about it. You know, there's the new media and then there's old media, whatever, however you want to slice it. Yeah. But it seems like specifically in the NBA, there has been a disconnect between, you know, the subject matter. And I always hear stories from you and JA and anyone you can name.

Back in my day, you know, we can just walk up to them and it was good. You know, they wanted to talk. Yeah. Where are we at right now between media and player and team relations? It's, you know, it's not good. It's not good. it's not good. And, you know, part of the reason it's not good is that it's just generally media has been,

I would say the traditional media, I'll put it out with, a traditional media has been under a relentless attack for the last five, ten years. Outside of the sports realm, in the realm of this country, is that people have decided to vilify the media at every turn and make them literally call them the enemy of the people and say it over and over and over again until about, you know, anywhere from a third to a half of the country believes it.

You know, so they think any media is an enemy of the people and anybody who dares ask questions of powerful people is a hater and just looks for clicks and isn't serious. That's kind of where our culture is right now, and it's permeated sports. I've said this because I've talked to a lot of people about this over the last couple of years. I have zero problem

with players taking control of their own narrative. Zero, none whatsoever. I'm happy when guys go on Players' Tribune. I'm happy that there's the boardroom. I'm happy that there's the barbershop. I'm glad that they're taking, this is

what I want to say and this is how I want to say it about whatever the subject is. And that's great. Okay? Because they should take control of their own narratives to the that they can, all I ask is you not lump all of us in the same bag. And that's what happens far too often now when people critique the media. They say, the media does this. No, that person does this. And if you have a problem with that person, call them out by name. Don't put me in that bag with

that person or those two people or those four people because I don't do that. Okay? I come to you stand in front of you and say, this is what I want to ask you about, do you want to talk about? I have no agenda. I don't care about, you know, I never have written a story. And I'm not saying this to pat myself on the back. In 35 years, I have never sat down and go, this story is going to get a lot of clicks. And I think the vast majority of people who are in our business do not operate that way. Do some? Yes. Yes. Some do. Well, what was the metric back in the day, right? Because, Because, you know, you're asking questions. And, you know, we have, I think as media members right now, we have this, the metric,

which is Twitter, which is like retweets and, and it's engagement. What was there, was there a metric to ask to be like, hey, I got to write the story because this will get this X amount of whatever? Well, in the, you know, it was newspapers when I started. I mean, newspapers were kind of the most powerful by far in terms of, you know, attention. and if a story was in a paper, it got major traction on television because, you know, at that time, there weren't a lot of, frankly, they just weren't a lot of TV journalists, people who worked on television that were actual reporters, you know, like, it could really report a story out.

There were some, but not many, you know. So it was newspapers when I started, you know, and so you would always be looking on the wire to see if there was a story written in the New York Times or the LA Times or the Chicago Tribune or the Washington Post where I worked, you know, because those were kind of the gatekeepers. But then television, when ESPN got big, that changed the whole game. And then ESPN became the big place, you know, and still is to a certain degree. Now, I don't think it's all, all encompassing, but certainly ESPN certainly sets a sports agenda on a daily basis. Absolutely.

You know, first of all, like we're way to as a culture now, like we're, we're, way too knee-jerk reaction to everything. Like it's just, and it's always got to be black or white. There's no nuance in it. There's no, there's no room for a dialogue. And I just find, like, you know, to your point, it's not all reporters. It's some people, and this is me looking from afar. I haven't been to locker room in a long time.

And I bet, I bet if I went into a locker room, I'd be disappointed and not having more of the type of reporter that was around when I played is what I'd bet. because, you know, a lot of the things that probably could have gotten written all half-cock without really doing any due diligence and really asking me the question and you put out some shit and now I'm, I'm, you know, in the papers for something that, and it's got this snowball effect and now I'm up here apologizing to people. All of that can get sorted out one way or the other. Maybe I did run a foul and meant to do it. Maybe I didn't. But you know how it all gets sorted out by fucking having a conversation.

Absolutely. Like, hey man, this is what happened. Raj, I know DA. DA comes to me. This isn't like, hey, man, this is a conversation. Like, DA, oh, no, no, no. Wait, hey, hey, let me explain this. Now it's up to DA to interpret and try to figure out whether he, you know, do with

that what you will. But way too often, I think there's a segment of the people in that, in that space now that aren't credible journalists and aren't willing to put in the, Sweat equity. Yes. Like the relationship building. And it's a two-way street. Like there are a lot of players that are super defensive and have these walls up and don't

don't give their time in a way that helps someone do their job. Right. So they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt either. But like I feel like just as a world, that's where we're at. I say this to my kids. Listen, bro, you don't have to like someone to try to find like some common ground or to try to see where they're coming from. It doesn't mean we just don't talk and go.

We might never know if there was some common ground. Like we got to take an opportunity to kind of talk shit out. Communication cures a lot of shit. Exactly. It's okay to have a hard conversation. It's okay. We stop getting, we stop doing. I think right now, I think media or at least where we're at, it just seems like professional

wrestling right now, right? Which is like the battle of the headlines. And we don't, we don't, I think we read headlines more than we, we actually read the content that is behind. Oh, that's always been the case. Oh, sure. That's always been the case. Yeah.

I did have a question for Razor really quickly because me and DA have experienced this of, you know, last year and the years because of the pandemic, we didn't have the locker room access. Right. And we just got that this season, which honestly, DA can attest that shit was a fight. And but how important is that dynamic for what you just described, right? Where, like, yo, man, if I write some shit that you don't necessarily agree with or anything like, that me and you can have a conversation in a in a controlled setting. Like how important is that locker room dynamic between that,

for that relationship, Rob? It's integral, man. It's the foundation of the development of trust that has to be in place for there to be real, like, accurate storytelling and, and shit being written. Like,

otherwise, you know, if I don't, I don't know you, bro. I just see you on a Zoom. And the first question you asked me is some inflammatory shit. because, you know, I don't, like, my guard is up.

Now, I get snippy with you. Now, you're like, oh, he's an asshole. So anytime you get a chance to slam me, you're going to slam me. When, if you're in my locker room, I mean, you guys know this. These are intimate spaces, man. These are vulnerable. Dudes are sitting there in towels, man. Yeah, right, right, right.

You know what I'm saying? We got to respect that more. I do think that as well. I agree with you on that. We have to respect that more. We are coming into y'all house. Yeah. I think for the most part, like at least when I played people did.

And I'm saying this, I'm saying this as a, like when we're at our most vulnerable, I'm sitting there in a towel. I'm about to put my lotion on. If I'm going to speak to you guys in that space and give you 10 minutes, I trust you. Yeah, yeah. Like I wouldn't let a random motherfucker come and grab me out of the shower at my house and start asking me about, bro, I don't know you. Right.

Do you know, but like we've developed these relationships because you're in my locker room. Like you're asking me about what's going on with me. I see you on the court. you're you're you know we've you've taken two minutes to talk to me and then they had nothing to do what a story you're writing about exactly you know what i'm saying so like yes these are built relationships and what you're talking about logan that face-to-face you know i don't i don't i don't know that a player has time in his schedule or someone on the media to say hey let's hop on a zoom for five minutes to chat and get to know each other i'm not writing the story you

know so without your access it's it it really starts to deteriorate the trust level no you know one thing, Raj, I always tell young reporters when they're just starting out, put the notebook away every once in a while. Put the textbook away every once in a while. Not every once in a while, like more than every once in a while, like 60% of the time. How are you, how are you doing, man? I ain't got nothing. I just wanted to see how you doing. That's all. You know, just me and Raj. I just wonder how Raj is doing. And so that is hard because young reporters want to make. their name and they're like, I got to, you know, I got to get out of this market and go to the higher market or I, or I got to be at ESPN by the time I'm 25 or I'm a failure. You know what I mean?

Like, and that's, that's, there's a lot of that in our business, you know, and so it's kind of warped in that sense. Right. The, the time I, to your point, the time I spent talking to Daryl Walker and talking to Jeff Malone and people like that when I was covering the bullets, just talking to them like people, you know. and them talking to me like a person and us getting to know each other over many years. It makes you a better reporter. I don't know why people don't get this. It makes you better because you have more empathy.

I think reporters have to be empathetic. It doesn't work otherwise. Like, you're just, that's stenography. You know what I mean? Like, there's a difference between reporting and stenography. If I just write down what you say and put it somewhere, that's stenography. But if I say, Rodgers said, this, but here's what's going on in Roger's life that might explain why he said this.

You know what I mean? That makes it better. I think it makes it a better story. It makes it more three-dimensional as opposed to two-dimensional, you know? Now, Roger. Yeah. I think me and Diego, I've been born to pick with you right for us. Oh, shit.

Oh, God. And it relates to this conversation. All right. Just full disclosure, Rara was late to the, to the, to the, to the, uh, No, no, no, no, no, no, three minutes, three minutes, all right, three minutes. I was waiting on my link, dude. Listen, to be fair, that is, that is really early for Rajo on some of this case. But, so I'm, so me and me, I'm, so, we see that you late.

And I do, I give a joke to D.A. like, yo, we're waiting on the NBA player. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, uh, and, what's new. And then he goes into this diatribe about how Kevin Garnett left him waiting, which we'll get to a second, left him waiting for an hour and a half after a playoff game. But what I would like to know is... Not just me, everybody, but I was there. He left DA. He left DA.

You know, DA got big respect in these streets. But what is the other side of that ride where you keep a motherfucker waiting? You got to talk to him. You're going to talk to him as a member of the media. You as, you know, that's, you know, we already have an agreement. but you take long as fuck and we have to be there on time. This is not even just you that I'm asking. I'm asking all NBA players you are in Avatar for this.

But like, what is the reason y'all make us wait hell along after you say, oh, I'll be there in five minutes? Wait, all right, listen, listen, maybe I didn't fully understand. Are we talking about in my work setting, like when I'm at the arena? Or are we talking about like, oh, uh, talking about like after a game, pregame? After a game. Like after game pregame, it's all encompassing for us. You guys are always late to us.

I was, I mean, barely ever important enough to command you guys waiting on me, right? So, like, I would, I'm speaking for others, right? I will be the avatar for this. I think that, typically, like, correct me if I'm wrong, you guys get a feel for who's going to be ready when, right? Like, because some dudes are just going to be late. Steph's going to be like an hour and a half. He's going to be late, right? So you start to get your little schedule together.

Whereas Draymond's, like, 30 seconds after the game. He's ready to talk. I can't wait to talk. He's a full of uniform. Right, right, right. So you guys, you guys know where to kind of make your way to when you see. I think what, you know, happens is the human element of it, dude. And that's, again, why I think if it all goes back to relationships and communication, like, if I played really bad or was really upset with something that happened in that game, felt I disappointed a bunch of people, like any of those things that could have got me, you know, just in a really bad space that.

might get taken out on the media, not in terms of like being angry or confrontational or anything like that, but in terms of respecting your time, because shit, I might have had to go down in the gym and shoot an extra couple hundred jump shots or, you know, I might have felt like salking. I'm a human. Like, I might be in the back, like, licking my wounds. I don't know. But I think most guys try to do a pretty good job. And I can't speak for the KGs and the AIs and the steves and the Kobe's who get pulled in

10 million directions. I've never lived at. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know. Yes, yes, yes. But I could speak for me in that regard. Like, I tried to be pretty, pretty scheduled in terms of, look, this is what you're going to get out of Raj. If you need to talk to him, he's going to come in, he's going to ice, he's going to shower, you know, roughly 35 minutes. He'll be at the locker getting dressed and I'm ready to go. Unless I, unless I laid an egg or something like that. Yeah. No, you know what? I have, and I have no problem with that. Really, I don't, as much as I carp about it. If, if, I know there's guys that like to lift after games.

They like to get on the treadmill for a few minutes to ride the bike or whatever it is. And that's okay. I've always just said, just tell me when to show up. That's all. If it's 40 minutes after the game, I'll be there 40 minutes after game. If it's two minutes after the game, I'll be there two minutes after the game. Just tell me when you're ready to talk and I'll be there. So I'm cool either way.

It's just that deadlines still do matter to some. Absolutely. In some ways. Now look, I'm going to keep it a buck. Like, I mean, if we're keeping a buck, you guys know it. like NBA players are like not unlike most NFL or MLBs or NHLs like we're all spoiled. We're all used to the world revolving around us to some degree. Even me who wasn't a great NBA player.

Like in my world, shit revolved around me, bro. I play in the NBA. I walk into a restaurant. They give me what I need. Like I don't wait at a doctor's office. Like I, you know, what the fuck is this airport security? I don't want to go through that shit. Like I just want to walk on a plane.

And we, you know, like in that world and in that in that coddling and, and protective bubble, you can start taking other people shit for granted. Yeah. You just can. And also like, again, like we are also in y'all space too, right? Like, we can't, like, if we want to get somebody pregame, we do also got to respect that they got a shooting time. You know what I'm saying? And they got a job to do as well.

You know, like it is tough. DA, what was the KG Stewart? Can you tell us how, why he kept, where were you guys out? No, it was a playoff game in Boston. He was just getting treatment after the game or whatever in the cryo chamber. I don't know. Like, he was just doing his post game. It's not, that was not an outlier.

That's just KJ. I know. I know that. I know that wasn't out of weight. You know, like this was an unusually long way. It's all I'm saying. You know, look, when you're a star like that, there's got to be a, you know, you have a team in place of people. I would just say bounce that shit off of them.

Hey, listen, man, this is my routine post game. Does it put these dudes in a real bad way? Or am I, like, what is the number? What's the number on the clock that I got to get out on time to make it palatable for these people to do their job? And then respect that. Like, if I can't get that done, then maybe I come out and give you what you need before I start my routine.

This is, see, that's where it rises. See, that's where I would, I've always made this argument to teams and PR people and players is, well, now it's a, what is it, is it 20 minutes cool enough now? I think it's 20 minutes after the game. Okay. So if, if the locker room open 20 minutes after the game, you could, I mean, you could run in and get a shower and get dressed, or you could wait and have, you know, put a robe on or whatever and sit there and answer these five minutes of questions and then you're done. And then you can go do your routine. Like, you know, I don't, I can't think of too many post-game media sessions that lasted 45 minutes with a player. Like,

you just peppered players with questions for 45 minutes and they, they never got to get anything to eat after the game. They never got to take, that doesn't happen. Most of the time, it's like six minutes. You know, wait. So what about, like, I know Michael Jordan was legendary for like keeping when people waiting. Like, he would have to, he would have to be fully suited and he would have to be ready to go. Ready to go.

Like, how long would he take? Mike was about 20 minutes to half an hour. Because he would have to get, not just get dressed with the suit, but he would have to cool off so that his head wasn't, he wasn't sweating, you know, because you didn't want to be,

there was guys back in the day that would come out and they just, ugh, it was so bad. They just, boy, sweat. Locking rooms were terrible. You remember, Sorry, you remember the New York Knicks visited locker room? Oh, sure, yeah, yeah.

You took a shower in that shit. You were going to do whatever. You could never dry it off. Ever. You know what I mean? Remember there was a King's locker room back in it? Remember the King's locker room back in the day at Arco? It was just so small.

Some of the old buildings were just terrible. The whole Chicago Stadium visiting the locker room was ridiculous. You know? Yeah. So he would like literally cool off and then get dressed. So he was like 20, 25, 30 minutes sometimes, you know. Whereas I think Horace, Horace Grant would talk immediately. Scotty was pretty fast, if I remember.

I don't think he was, I don't think he waited too, too long. You know, but they had, you know, they had, Phil was always available. He's a good talker. Kerr was a good talker, as you know. So, I mean, that locker room was easy. You know, you just worked the locker room until Jordan was ready. You know, so it was fine. It was fine.

All right. Before we get out of here, we got to do it. It's Thursday, so you know what that means. We're going to do our little segment called Real One of the Week, where we point out a real organization, agency, or a person. It just won the week. I'll go first, and then we'll go to, go to Rajan and with DA. So I'm going to go. My real one of the week is Devin Booker, who just bawled out of control last night, score 50 in three quarters.

Also really efficient, 20 or 25? Like, don't. And, like, everybody who listens to this pod knows that Devin Booker is one of my favorite players to watch. I love watching him play. I hope that he takes his next step in his journey because that will unlock the Phoenix Suns. So I'm going to go with Devin Booker. Ra, Ra, who's your ruin of the week?

Yeah. So my real one of the week is going to be Jim Harbaugh and the Michigan Wolverines. I mean, what was it? About a year and a half ago, man, or two years ago they were calling for this man's job coming out of the pandemic with the season. And all he's done is,

is turn it around and get a point into the right direction, whoop in Ohio State. I'm Ohio State fan, but without Blake Corum up there at the horseshoot, like that's a hell of impressive win, man. And JJ McCarthy deserves some love too. I don't know the receiver's name and the other back, but they deserve it, man.

They were real ones of the week for that, man. Shout out to Michigan football and Coach Harbaugh. Also keeping it college. Hey, man, give my dog Caleb Williams at Heisman, dog. Stop playing USC's back, right? Run that. Run that. Oh, man.

All right. So I need to give a real one. Let me give it to my man. What's my man's name? Christian Polisic. What's the soccer player? Polisic. Yeah.

Policic. Polic. Yeah. My man went growing first to get that goal. That's respect. That's right. That's right. My man put it all on the line to get that ball in the net, you know, for that one-old

that they had to have. So I give him big respect for putting, literally putting his body on the line for his team and his country. Yeah, that's the best one. No doubt. There you go. There you go. Well, DA, man, thanks so much for coming on.

We've got to have you coming into the playoffs, man. Friend of the show, come back anytime, bro. Thanks for coming along. You don't have to wait that long. Shit, I'll be on next week if you want to say. Let's get it, man. That was David Alders, the God. We'll see you guys on Monday.

Make sure you check us out Mondays and Thursdays on the Ringer NBA feed. We lock in with us real ones. We see you, man. Happy holidays. We see you guys on Monday. Howling.