The Ringer NBA Show - David Stern’s Monumental Legacy, the NBA’s Middle Class, and the Return of Zion | The Mismatch

Episode Date: January 3, 2020

We take some time to review David Stern’s illustrious life and career after the news of his death (0:58). Then, we run down a list of teams that can go one of two ways: trade their valuable assets and tank or push for the lower playoff seeds (9:03). Finally, we try to contain our excitement for the rumors of Zion Williamson’s imminent return (43:15). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. We've published some great episodes in the month of December, including a rewatchable's with Quentin Tarrantino on Dunker. Sean Fennessey sat down with Greta Gerwig to talk about her new film Little Women on The Big Picture, and Adam Sandler and Kevin Garnett appeared on the Bill Simmons podcast to talk about their newest film on Cut Jems. Happy New Year from The Ringer. Welcome to The Ringer MBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And join me as he does every Friday from The Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O. Concert, Kevin O'Crocent, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Campra, Kevin O'Candiland. Kevin O'Brien,

Verno. How are you doing this morning? Everything is good. This has been a odd week because the overwhelmingly big story from the NBA is the passing of Commissioner Emeritus David Stern at 77. He had gotten ill with a brain hemorrhage a few weeks ago. And then we find out of his passing right after. the calendar turned. And I am struck by, I have read so many different tributes. I have listened to so many people speak about David Stern. I know you sent out a tweet the night that it happened, but this is obviously major news in the NBA. And you could just sense from former players, former executives, owners, former owners, media members, the massively profound. impact he had and to read all of the tributes and to read all of the eulogies slash commentaries on his life were rather fascinating. It was. Everybody seems to have that worked in the NBA in some regard when David Serner's commissioner had a

story whether it was something related to an interview with him and how he may have helped facilitate a story on the media side or whether there was somebody working behind the scenes. in the NBA league office or somebody working for teams as a player for an office ownership. It was amazing to take in stories from David Stern. Ultimately, like, this week was really a celebration of his great life that he had. It's horrible what happened to him and, you know, and condolences to his family and all his friends as well. But it was really nice to read about the things that he did for this league and not just the NBA, but for the sports world as a whole and his tenure as NBA commissioner,

he's going to be remembered fondly over the years. And he is remembered fondly now. And Chris, I think of everything I read, Jeff Zilgit of USA Today, what he wrote about how David Stern handled Magic Johnson's HIV diagnosis in the 1990s, that really hit me because of just how AIDS was perceived, how HIV was perceived at that time. and how David Stern really was one of the key figures by standing next to Magic Johnson during that time and changing perception in the United States and around the world about that.

Yeah, he grew the game internationally and just two things on a personal front, and not me personally with David, but rather things that I thought about when I was reading everything. And one of them that stuck out to me is there are so many of my, peers, people that grew up massive sports fans. You know, people of my age, when we grew up, the biggest athletes in the world were that, obviously, Magic and Bird were huge deals, but that Michael Jordan was the biggest athlete in the world, and he played in the NBA. And I have always thought that that had a profound impact on people that grow up and then decide to do media and what they care about. I get asked about this a lot. I get asked about this a

lot, like kind of how I got into the NBA. And I grew up loving it. And then I moved to a market that did not have the NBA. And within a year's time in Memphis, the NBA came. And he was such a champion of small markets. And I saw the way that the NBA changed a city completely. But back to the original point of all of us growing up, you know, it was natural to me to want to love the NBA and to get involved with it because when I was a kid, those were, you know, the biggest athletes were probably Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, Bo Jackson. These were the guys that were on commercials. These were the guys that were on video games. People loved. And I look around and you see media members throughout the sport. And it is still, to this day, it skews younger and younger.

And there's so many of my peer group that are in the NBA. You look at the NFL. There's not a ton of young media members in the press boxes. You look at Major League Baseball. There's not a ton of young media members in press boxes, but you think about the amount of people that write, love, and care about the NBA and basketball in general. And there are, think about how many are from everywhere from 20 to 40, you know? And the other thing is obviously, look, part of that is Simmons too, because Bill was the biggest writer. You know, he was somebody that spoke to so many people like me when I was growing up, you know, reading that.

And here's this guy and he loved the NBA so much. So, but Stern, you know, he oversaw all of that and was like head on with digital media. And now I think about the impact that that had in him and the effect that he had on the NBA. and how many people of my age set now cover the NBA, talk about it, love it, more so than in some of the other sports. And I think it still skews younger. And then the other thing is the small market thing, as I mentioned. I was at the first press conference when he stepped in foot in Memphis and David Stern to announce that the team was going to be moving. And it was like a rock star walked in because that kind of stuff didn't happen in Memphis, you know?

like David Stern wasn't ever going to be at Memphis. And there he was announcing the team was going to come. And you think about all he did for small markets and really being a champion. And, you know, Oklahoma cities had sustained success and Portland's had sustained success in Utah. I mean, Milwaukee's got the best record in the NBA right now. And basketball stayed. He saved it in New Orleans. And so that's one of the things that obviously has mattered a lot to me over the

years because of him being a champion and wanting it to work in smaller markets and then kind of evening the playing field, you know? Like years ago, you go back to like 2009, the Lakers are spending $91 million on their payroll. Somebody like the Grizzlies or the Hornets or this type of team, they're spending 50, you know, and now that can't be. And I think, I don't know, man, this guy, he had such a massive, massive impact. But those are two things that stood out to me. right how he grew the game at an important moment for so many people my age and then how much he championed small markets growing the game in the united states and also growing the game internationally um obviously with the dream team in the early 90s other international competitions that david stern had pushed for over his 10 years commissioner really did help grow this game globally um leading to the just constant influx of increasing influx every single year of

of international players entering the league with worldwide interest in the league. He was an unbelievable man, unbelievable commissioner. Yeah, but this. I'm not going to, there's so much slower stuff that I still have to read. You know,

I've just left the bookmark open for it. There's so much out there. To the point, I mean, you think about huge stars in the league right now, Janice, Luca Donchich, Pascal Seaccom,

you know, I mean, guys from just anywhere, all over the world, literally. And he's got a hand in that. Like that, that happens in part because of David Stern

and the attention he paid to growing the game somewhere else besides just the United States. Truly unbelievable. And also it's not even just like the players on the court too. It's the jobs that people have around the world working in offices in every single country across the world. There's something related to NBA. Yep.

We are, Kevin, now as the calendar has, turn, that means we are about a month away from the trade deadline, a little more than a month away. I guess we'll start with, you know, because the trade deadline is not too far away, you have people starting to comment on said trade deadline. And one of those was the Pistons owner, Tom Gore's, who addressed it. Now, they have been without Blake Griffin and Reggie Jackson and Luke Kennard and Markeith Morris. Blake has missed 17 of 35 games. But, He was asked about, you know, the trade deadline and kind of which direction that particular team was going to go. And it was even asked specifically about guys like Blake Griffin and Andre Drummond.

And so we have kind of our first, you know, big leader owner commenting on the upcoming trade deadline. What did you make of what Pistons owner Tom Gore's had to say and just kind of addressing that teams are going to have to be making a decision? which direction they're going to go within the next three weeks. What he said precisely was, quote, we have to look at everything because we're not winning, so you're not winning. To me, you have to assess everything, end quote. And reading that, it's interesting because here's a guy who, when the Blake Griffin trade happened, wanted to get into the playoffs, wanted to be a consistent playoff team.

And that risk did not pay off. like many expected that it wouldn't, that the cap on this team with Blake, with his injury history, with his declining athleticism, that it would not make as much of a difference as they would have hoped for on paper. But now, on the flip side of that, is you do have to assess everything, and that's true. You should always be assessing everything. But the fact is, is what can you really do? Andre Drummond is months away from becoming an unrestricted creation. Blake Griffin has all those issues that I just mentioned declining health, declining athleticism, and he has not been good this season. So with your two best players on paper, I'm sorry, but like what move is there for Detroit

to even make? Because teams entering the season that I liked for Blake Griffin, I'm not so sure a team like Portland should be making a move for him right now. So what can you do? Okay, do you think anybody wants Drummond? Uh, I mean, at 28 million would be with the ability to become under restricted free agent. He has an option for next year. Sure, but I'm not really sure how much they would want drummond, you know? Do you think it makes it a lot more if he, if he were to pick up the player option, if you get, you know, some kind of, if he puts up the player option, do you think then it becomes more enticing to get him?

No, but we just talked last week about how you can get a good center on a cheap deal, and that might be the way to build. Well, I'm going to tell you this, Keb, Drummond, to me is, I mean, a colossal waste. I know it's box score numbers. The box score numbers are crazy. They're like 18 points, 16 rebounds. I get it. But they're 24th in defensive rating and they're 25th in opponent's points in the paint.

So what's a point? I'm with you. I agree. I agree. I mean, that just can't be. How can you be that bad defensively, literally in the paint? and you're paying a center of $28 million. Like, I don't need it.

I am with you. And that's why with Drummond, it's going to be so interesting to see what decision he makes this coming summer. Does he pick up his option? Because maybe his agent will advise him, hey, man, look what Clint Capella got with Houston, around $18 million annually. To me, that's what Drummond should be.

I don't know if a team is going to try to pay him $20 plus million dollars, but Drummond, in my eyes, should be like a $15 to $19 million player. And I'm sure like there are some people like, are you kidding me with the numbers that he puts up, 20 points, 15 rebounds, he can pass the ball. He can do things that make a nice impact for you. But because of the role of his role he has and the impact he makes,

I'm not so sure I'd pay him anywhere near a max contract. In fact, I know I wouldn't pay him. Well, he likes having the ball way too much recently. I mean, the other night, We have like seven turnovers in the game, and I know they were short-handed, whatever. But I mean, this guy wants to act like he's a point guard now sometimes. It's unbelievable. And that's sometimes the concern with him.

It's like, yes, he can pass the ball. He makes him really slick passes from the high post. But then other times, like, he's trying to do too much. Bro, you're not Nicolai. You are not Nicolai. Well, you're not, you're not, you're not Bam at a bio for that matter. Right. You're not even close.

You're not in the same universe as Yokic. You're not on the same planet as at a bio as a passer. a playmaker is a decision maker. And that's one of the inherent flaws with Drummond as a player. And that gets back to your original thought with Gore's. What do you do if you're Detroit? Are you trying to just say, screw it?

We're going to try to add and make the most of this year with Blake and Drummond and all that. Because I don't think so. I think that would be silly. That would be short-sighted. But I don't really know if you can pull the plug on what you have because I don't know if anybody wants to take that on. This is always the hard part, right? and my old buddy Ed Stefanski is now in charge up there,

and now that I recall. And he, I mean, I don't know the situation there, but I'm saying like I've been through many of these situations where a team goes and they look and they say, you know, the owner and the management have to get on the same page and just decide, okay, this is going to be a process and this is going to take a little while, and here's what we need to do and what best suits the team.

Or you are scared for your job, And so you go and make some win now moves, like what you're saying, and just try to scratch a claw and get to the playoffs because then you'll get to keep your job for another year. And I don't know. It just depends on the patience of your owner and how your owner sees the situation. It's unfortunate because last year, Detroit, obviously they're just an above average, an average team, 41 and 41 by the numbers. But Blake was a very, very high-end player last season. he was an all-star.

He was all-N-B-A. All-N-B-A, 25 points per game, shot a career best, 36% from three, assist, rebounds, he did it all. But then he got hurt, and this year he's still hurt, and the numbers are,

like, it bothers me to even look at them and read them out loud. 15 points per game, 35% from the field, 40% effective field goal percentage. He is not scoring the ball with a,

efficiency and it's a low volume. He's not playing as many minutes at 28. He can't even be on the court. He's been heard. It's, it's, it sucks. He's only 30.

And he still is owed over 30 million dollars for this season and two more after that. So if you're Detroit, you took a calculated risk in dealing for him. Everybody knew it at the time. It was a save my ass decision by Stan Van Gundy that he made to try to save his job, to try to get this team.

into the playoffs because gores wanted to get in the playoffs front office had to make that choice even though it was short-sighted we're finding out now it may have been even more short-sighted than we expected because blake does not look good and that's scary for detroit's future scary for what they are now and i don't know what the move is that you make because nobody's going to trade for blake and drummond is a devalued asset because of his free agency because of his salary so what do you do you do you might have you do you might have you well right because, I mean, you could sit there and you could say, hey, and I know he acknowledges, like, hey, we've had a lot of injuries, which they have.

He's like, but you could tell with the owner, there was a little tinge of impatience even in that. He's like, other teams have had injuries, too. Here's what I know. I would try to find a place for Drummond. That would be my first order of business. The Blake thing I'll have to figure out, and I just pray you can come back healthy and be a large percentage of at least what I saw less than six months ago.

But with the Drummond thing, Like, I don't care who has him. If he picks up that player option, it don't matter if it's the pistons or if it's anybody else. Nobody's winning. Nobody's winning with $28.7 million of Andre Drummond on their books. Except for Andre Drummond, he's winning. He's winning. I mean, the team that has that contract.

That just seems unfathomable to me that you could spend that percentage of your salary cap. Because you and I talked about this when we're talking about role playing, you know, big men. Bro, if you can't, like, if you can't, if I'm 20, fifth in points in the paint. Everybody's shooting threes and layups. And if I got a big man, I'm spending that kind of money and he doesn't prevent the layups part, forget it. I mean, that is just, it's a death nail.

Chris, to your point, drum it at $28 million this season. Would you rather have him at $28 million or Javelle McGee at four? Oh, I mean, I would much rather have, I would rather have anything. Of course, exactly. Exactly. It's an easy answer. and that's why I don't see what team is going to trade for him. Here's what you know.

Why they would trade for him. It doesn't make sense to do. You can. You can't like say like these these contracts that were signed, you know, four summers ago, three summers ago, these 18, 19 millions that are just like, you know, end of the bench, salary cap fillers for some of these rat teams. Like it can happen, even though most of them that have those players are not very good. But even like the end of a contract for like Baysmore, who's at least contributed, right,

to a team. He can play for you. Those you can withstand. 28.7? Like, you can't withstand that. You can't. Whoever you pay $28.7 million has to be amazing. Has to be.

You can't overcome that. They have to be an amazing player when you're getting to that range. Like over $25 million, they've got to be amazing. or else your team's just not going to be any good. And so I don't know what that. That would be my first order of business. I just try to find somebody that will take him on. Now, we got these teams.

The Pistons just kind of got us jump started. But last year we saw things that, you know, change the balance of power. I mean, you had the Raptors get Markasol. You had the Sixers get Tobias Harris. The Bucks went out and got Mertitch last year. And so now we have a. a bunch of guys that are out there, but it doesn't feel like as big a names yet, right? Like the ones that we know are like the Gallinari's, Iguodala, Bogdanovich, the Sacramento version,

maybe Marcus Morris, right, who's on kind of a, you know, you just got a rental with him and maybe could change some stuff, Dwayne Deadman's ass for it, Jay Crowder, guys like that. You know, not, you know, because the salaries have gotten so big for the better players, it feels like these guys that are up for contracts, that those are probably the ones that could swing things. And I could see like those top three that I named, Galinari, Igwadala Bogdanovich, like, those could all have big impact, don't you think? Yeah, Gallaudari, of course, is a player who can help somebody.

He makes $23 million, so you've got to have the right salaries. in a deal to get him, but 6-10, versatile score, health has always just been the loan question with him, but there's no doubt that he can play. It's just about finding the right fit for salaries and for Oklahoma City isn't worth making a deal now

because he's an unrestricted free agent this summer. They could wait until free agency and he could be a guy that they sign and trade. And a lot more teams would have the ability to trade for him at that point because either cap space or other salaries, are up, more guys available to trade, more flexibility. So, OKC, I have heard there's a chance they would wait because more opportunities could be

out there for deals during the summer, but maybe a team makes it worth it now because he's a guy that could definitely swing things. Well, you could absolutely get more than a first round pick, I would think. Especially this year, perhaps. Yeah, from one of these teams trying to win, yes. You know, again, they've got to have the spots and expirings. You know what I mean? If you're Oklahoma City and you sit there and you just.

I mean, God, you're going to look up and you're going to have every asset in the league. When it's all said and done. You know what I mean? You're just going to have this war chest of assets. You're going to have half the draft, you know, if you can flip guys like Gallinari for picks. It's interesting because one team that I would like him for on paper that's a little more difficult to find a trade is the Dallas Mavericks. I am going to be fascinated to see what they do because their team, they make sense for Ewa Dala and it could make sense for Gala. There's a lot of wings or forwards that make sense for them.

And they have the assets. They have an $11.8 million trade exception that they could use to absorb a salary. They have Courtney Lee, who makes $12.7 million. They have Tim Hardaway, who's been solid, you know, but it might be more valuable to use that $20 million salary he has in a bigger deal for a better player. And with them being the five seed right now, with Luca Dantzich being an MVP candidate, Chris Daps, Porzingis playing well on the defensive end of the floor and contributing offensively. They're a team that they're far ahead of schedule with what everybody expected them to be this season because of Luca being what he is.

But because they're ahead of schedule, I do think there should maybe be a little bit of urgency in making a move. You're not going to do anything rash that hurts your future. But I do think that they should be aggressive in looking for somebody that helps them now. Because that trade exception expires, right? It goes away. Courtney Lee's deal eventually it goes away. He's a free agent.

Now is the time to make a move that can help you in the short term without really hurting your long term too much. What do you do with Bagdanovich in Sacramento? Because they're now, you know they're trying to make the playoffs. They are tired of not being a playoff team. And it's been forever since they have. He clearly helps that cause a lot. You are also in the situation where you could lose him at the end of this season for nothing. I mean, they paid Harrison Barnes and they paid Buddy Healed. And so do you,

do you pay him? Do you expect to pay him when you get to the all season and then just figure it out? Or do you need to get something for a guy like that now? I think it's the same question with Galoisian. By the way, real quick timeout, I love him. Yeah, me too. And I think he could absolutely, I mean, he is, he could be a starting two guard. He's just on the same team with buddy heal. Is he somebody though that you want to, you would prefer to keep him? He's restricted.

Correct? Yes. So I think maybe you gamble and go into free agency and see what happens because not a lot of teams have cap space and he's somebody that you would prefer to keep. Maybe it makes more sense to try to move some other salaries and keep Bogdanovich than just

lose Bogdanovich. But are you spending that kind of money on same position? What's he going to get, though? What's he going to get? I think a ton. I think a ton. The market's so light.

The market's so light. Once you pass with the shooting guards, you're talking about guys like Bogdanovich and Malik Beasley. These guys that have not resigned with teams, I think they're going to get a... There's not a lot of money out there, though. Keith Smith from Yahoo recently tweeted the updated cap projections for the summer.

teams that'll have cap space. Atlanta, 75 million. Your Memphis Grizzlies, 53 million. Nix, 46 million. Cleveland, 29 million. Charlotte, 23 million. Portland could have 18 million. Phoenix, 17 million.

So of those teams, are any of them going to splurge with over 20 million for Bogdanovich? Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. But I'm not convinced that he's going to get paid at this crazy amount that he's going to be somebody that Sacramento is going to be like,

you know what? Nah, we're good. I think Bogdanovich is worth keeping and it's worth gambling unless something's worth it. He's not untouchable, obviously, but he's a good player who he still fits in with what they have. You mentioned being the same position as a guard like healed or Fox.

Yeah, but they can still play together. All right. Let me ask you about Denver then. I had mentioned Beasley in passing. with this ascension of Michael Porter Jr., which you mentioned, I mean, look, yesterday, you watched those highlights. I mean, the step back three. I mean, he stepped back four feet.

Dude, it started as a post up. My God. I mean, 11 for 12, 25 points, and 23 minutes. And you watch those highlights and it's like, Jesus, like the guy, number one, I was around him earlier this year. He is huge. huge, like tall, tall, tall. Like, and watching him yesterday, making those kind of moves at that height, you know, you see, you know, look, for many, many years, Michael Porter Jr. was ranked the highest

in that draft class. You know, all those recruiting rankings had Porter Jr. The best in that class. And, and by the way, in retrospect, the class was loaded. And people evaluated them and said, that's the best one. and of course his is one injury-plagued year in Missouri and then trying to play in that tournament was not a good representation of him and then he got went then he was going to play in the summer league and he got hurt right before and we didn't see him at all last year and so this is the

first like real long look we've gotten at the guy and they have found a way to get him minutes and get him on the court and my God Kevin the first. first glimpse is spectacular. He looks like the guy that was expected in high school. Number one prospect, like you said, a versatile do-it-all score, 6-10 with size and speed. And not just that, though, but skill. The step back three was a very skillful shot with good smooth footwork creating against what was pretty solid defense.

But his ability to get to the basket, he had the athletic. up and under layup, where he started on the left side of the left side of the court, when up and under underneath the rim twirled the ball off the backboard. He had the athletic dunk. He scores from everywhere. He had post-ups as well. I mentioned that the step-back three possessions started off as a path. I think Gary has thrown into the high post and Porter somehow turned it into a step-back three.

He does it all in the court. And now for him, it's about staying healthy. he still has the foot drop, which is concerning for his health moving forward. That's never going to go away. But for Porter, if he's able to stay healthy and able to keep refining and mastering his skills, he's a guy who raises Denver ceiling this season as a helpful young player who can score and have big games for you like he just did last night against Indiana. But long term, if he's able to continue getting better and keep scoring like this with consistency,

the amount of creativity Denver can have with their lineups that they run, considering that they have a 7-foot 270-pound point guard. It's really weird when you think about it. This team could be one of those teams that dictates matchups with the size that they have, with how they interchange positions with Gary Harris or Jamal Murray being used as a screener for Yokic. Well, they can do that for Michael Porter Jr. too. This team can be really a handful to defend this season. And especially in the future of Porter keeps getting better with the amount of interchangeability that they have and play roles.

Yeah, I would love to see him, you know, live out to his potential. And we saw it, you know, we have seen a glimpse of it. And again, he's just starting to get minutes, but how awesome he looked. Because so many guys have had that once unbelievable promise and then got it taken away from him. Now, some of them have been so immensely talented that they've been able to make careers out of it. not what they would have been, but still have careers. You think about guys like Sean Livingston. There was that kid from Kansas State years ago, Bill Walker.

He was obviously so good. He ended up getting to have an NBA career. But like coming out of high school, Harry Giles is another one. I mean, people were comparing that kid to Chris Weber in high school. And they're so good that even despite their injury setbacks, they're still able to have NBA careers. But it didn't look like, like that didn't look like the. a guy that's going to just have a career. That looked like a guy that could be special.

And again, it's one glimpse. Exactly. Exactly. Well, it's not just one glimpse. He had a career night earlier in the week, too. And then he's scoring 19 against the Kings. And that was an impressive game as well with his first career start. But last night's game, especially, it's not just the number. You can look at the 25 points. You can look at the 19 points, but it's the way in which he scores.

Like, guys can score 20 plus points just from a hot shoot. shooting night or some open transition opportunities. But Porter was used as a dynamic weapon all around the court. Like they ran actions for him off screens, getting him towards the rim. And he made plays for himself. Like we mentioned, the step back three, attacking closeouts. He did it all. And this is a glimpse of what he could be someday with regularity as a star go-to option

next to a star point guard and Nikolow Yochich with a back, a weird, you know, versatile backcourt with Jamal Murray and Gary Harris. He changes what we can, what we think of the Denver Nuggets moving forward if this continues to be real. And it seems like it is. You wonder what they can get to because with his ascension, there's more guys that, you know, their stock has gone down a lot. You know, guys that you, you, a year ago, you really could have gotten maybe big return

for them. And I'm talking about Milly Beasley, Tori Craig, uh, Juan, Hernan Gomez, you know, these guys who, you know, in Craig's case, I mean, the guy was starting last year and now he's a 3-and-D guy that, you know, was only shooting low 30s from 3 and gets D&P coaches decisions. And then Herni Gomez's stock has gone down. And Malik Beasley's has had probably at all-time low, certainly since the first couple of years in the league. And he gets some DMPs or scattered minutes here and there. And you wonder kind of how they can bolster that Denver. team because if you're if you're if you're just saying hey you've already added this thing to the mix

that is a possible you know can come in and get you 25 in 20 something minute you know what do they do other than to bolster and do they just let all these contracts go off the books and let these guys go into their different types of free agency or do they get some return on it where they can you know kind of round this roster out sure it sort of changes that the mindset here for them because if Michael Porter is the real deal and if they have some level of confidence internally that he's able to stay healthy despite the issues that he's had really I mean since high school if they feel that level of confidence that raises the question what do you do then with Paul Millsap who there he can be a free agent this summer and he's older of

course makes $30 million is he somebody maybe that you would potentially think about either just letting go or maybe trying to trade him now ahead of time to get something that you're building with today and for the future because of what Porter can bring at that same slot at the three, at the four, where you would play Millsap now at the four, maybe you're changing the way you look at how you're building this roster, not just how it plays in the court, but how Tim Conley, who runs the Nuggets,

would make decisions on how to build this thing out. Let's talk about some of the injuries that have taken place. Caris Levert coming back, so that's good news, coming back for the Brooklyn Nets, who now are one game under 500 but are sitting there in that seven seed in the Eastern Conference. And the kid has just gone through so many injuries all the way back to college. And they need somebody back because they've lost four in a row now, and they don't want to be fighting, you know, for a playoff spot. by any means.

They're still a little solidly in there. They're four ahead of whatever the team on the outside looking in. Charlotte in Chicago, I guess, are the ones on the outside looking in. But here's hoping, and they spent the money on Lavert in the off season, and it sucked for him to get another injury, but you got them getting Lavert back. Any thoughts on that?

Good. It's great. I hope Kyrie gets back soon too as well, because this team 16 and 17 has been overwhelming, obviously, because of a lot of injuries. We've seen guys like Spencer did what he perform well, but I do want to see

what the rest of this team looks like when it's actually healthy to get a better idea of what they can be when Kevin Durant eventually does return. And you also wonder, are they a team that maybe not going to win a playoff series against one of the top three, but can they turn it into

to a, you know, can they be good enough to where if, if one of the top teams suffered a big injury or if they played really well by playoffs, they could take them to six or seven games in a first round series? It's possible. It's possible. Because, I mean, they've got, you know, I am, I'm doubtful with Kyrie Irving in that lineup, but we will see. And that would at least be, it would make for more fun because right now it feels like

seven and eight doesn't even matter. They're going to get trashed. You know, so hopefully we get, it'd be nice to have a seventh team that could do something. One note, one note on KD. Nets Daily reported this week that,

Kevin Durant's Achilles injury was ruptured high on the Achilles. And they, they said, quote, the rupture was high on his Achilles where blood circulation is good and healing is more rapid, rapid and complete, end quote.

Brian Suterer who does just absolutely amazing work on YouTube. He's a doctor who talks about sports injuries had interesting comments in response to that report. He said reading his tweet, the ruptures are usually four to six centimeters above the heel insertion where blood flow is poor. And for KD, if it's true that the rupture is closer to the muscle tendon area that could actually mean that this could be good for his healing, could be good for

his comeback, could be good for his recovery and what he can be, whether it's closer to 100% he was, rather than being like 50, 60% of what he was. If we can get a KD that's at least 80, 90, or close to 100% from what we saw prior to the injury, very interesting. Yeah. Little Nugget, if that's true, that this could be a good sign for him moving forward. Yeah, I didn't. didn't even know there were different types of Achilles. I just thought it was, you know. I guess it's like where the rupture is on the Achilles. I get and apparently it does matter according to Dr.

Brian Suterer who like I said, does awesome, awesome injury breakdowns. I've learned a lot about, you know, I'm not a doctor, but I've learned like some basics from watching his videos. Uh,

more injury news. And this one's super disappointing. Jonathan Isaac, who had been certainly, certainly breaking out defense. And you and I were both fans of Isaac a lot going into last year. And it wasn't a great year. But it's really starting to come along, you know, and progress 12 points per game,

seven rebounds. He was the only player in the league that was averaging 2.4 blocks and one and a half steals every game. And teams were shooting low percentages at the rim with him defending. He had really become a very good defensive player. He's out two months, severe bone condusion and sprained to his knee. you know, and they're sitting in eight right now, Orlando. Aaron Gordon, God, when I was going to look this up after, you know, realizing the Isaac injury was going up, boy, does he need to step up?

He has been miserable. It was super disappointing season so far for Aaron Gordon. So they need some guys to really step up because Isaac had been good for them. This sucks, man. I'm disappointed because with Isaac, like you said, he has emerged as, I mean, really a potential. all NBA defensive player. With his level of versatility, effort, intelligence, he's an awesome defensive player. And then he's shown some flashes on the offensive end of this floor as a shock creator.

His handle looks a bit tighter than we've seen since he was at Florida State. And that's encouraging. And it stinks to see that he's actually going to be out for two months now. And you mentioned Aaron Gordon, he was one of those guys before the season. When you're looking for potential breakout players, guys who could swing the fortunes of a team, Aaron Gordon was one of those guys that you thought about, or at least I thought about, and for him to really stink as much as he has this season, I want, again, I wonder what do you do, if you're Orlando here? Do you try to flip him? The stocks, you know, the stocks low right now.

And so I bet you're going to get offers. And you know, you know this. We've talked about this a lot. That a Orlando team, it's a collection of guys that like you like, talented guys. It just doesn't, it doesn't fit. Like everything's strange with it, with Busevich and with Isaac, and then they drafted Bamba and Aaron Gordon and what position does he play. Traded for faults?

I mean, it's just, it's strange. It's a strange collection. And we thought that they, going into this season, there's still a team I keep an eye on because they got a bunch of these guys, like these veteran guys that are good enough players that can certainly start in some cases and absolutely be in a rotation of some good teams. teams, the Vucevich, the Fornier, the Tarant Ross, like these kind of guys. And then they've got a bunch of young guys too, Aaron Gordon, Mobamba, Isaac, on and on and on. They're one to keep an eye on

because, you know, they've got, you could throw stuff together to be able to, you know, expiring or a veteran player that can really play and a young guy on a good contract to get you something real in return. But, I mean, I don't know. I, Aaron, Gordon, I don't know. I mean, I guess, yeah, you could move him, but damn, you're going to get way less than you were going to get a while back, right? Unless a team, well, you're probably going to get less, yes, to that. But I still think if you're a team that can put him more in a Blake-esque role, where he's a little bit more rim runner, you know, short role, maybe like Draymond Green style. The passing numbers aren't there for him.

like it doesn't show in the stat sheet, but Gordon can pass. And that was the thing I loved Aaron Gordon in the draft. In 2014 draft, I had him ranked, I think, fourth, I'm pretty sure that year, which was, that's where he got drafted fourth overall. But I think that was fairly high in comparison to other rankings because I really liked his playmaking ability. He showed a lot of interior passing ability in Arizona that he hasn't really gotten a full opportunity to show in his years with the Orlando Magic. And I still think that there's something there with him to use as a short rolling big man like a Blake Griffin like a Dreamong Green he's not as

good as those guys but I still think there's value there when you also factor in the like his offense has not been good but he's still a really good defensive player there's something there for Gordon to be an impact positive player for you but it hasn't been there so far

well and the book's not written and all it takes is one team that has a real conviction you know even as you do to sit back and say this guy just needs a change of scenery look at the way he's been used. You know, look at all the different positions he's been playing, all these different ways he's tried to play basketball, you know, with that team. If we get him, it's worth giving up a lot because we could foresee him being amazing in the way we play. So I could see it. And I don't know

what kind of decision you make. It does kind of change things when Isaac's out for two months. Because now you hope that Gordon just steps up and becomes awesome. It plays way better than he has so far this year, I think. Two other things. Paul George went out with a hamstring last night or a Pistons game. They say it's hopefully nothing. He wasn't walking with

a limp afterwards or anything, but it's something to at least keep an eye on. And then Zion Watch appears to be the news has been very positive. Very positive since we last spoke. He said he's been wanting to play for two weeks. They say that he's been through his first practice. And so

I think we might be right around the corner. That's what all these articles sound like. I am so pumped and jacked for the return of Zion Williamson. Yes. Let's go. I'm so stoked. Kevin Kevin's pumped and jacked.

I am, man. I'll get you not be excited about the return of Zion, man. Hold on a second. This is great. Let me look real quick. I'm going to look at their schedule and we're going to see which which would be the best one for him to come back for, right? They are right. I want to

I want to go to Memphis for that game. The Martin Luther King Day game, but that's a few weeks out. I know. We'll see. I'd love them to try to make it happen if I can leave home. Well, they play the Lakers on ESPN tonight. That'd be pretty awesome.

They play the Lakers on ESPN. Then they play at Sacramento, Utah, Chicago. Hey, a week from tonight, Friday night, at New York, Zion versus RJ. it's on ESPN. Ooh. How about that? That'd be a good one.

It would be a good one, huh? It does seem like we'll be here soon, though, because Zion did say how he, if it was his choice, he would have been playing two weeks ago. So he must, he must feel healthy. He must feel healthy.

So it's about taking the proper precautions, making sure he's actually a hundred, 25% healthy, not just 100% healthy. And it's the right call for no one wants to do that, but if he does return, boy, is he coming back at the right time, though, still coming off the 4-8 winning streak that we talked about on Tuesday's show, tonight against the Lakers, like, odds are you lose that game.

But still, there's some winnable games coming up on the schedule. You know, you get Sacramento, Chicago, New York, Detroit. They could get a little street going here, right? They could get. Oh, they've already got one because you look at the teams. Look, they've won five of their last six in addition to the four in a row. and they lost that game at Golden State 106, 102. But the other wins, dude, these are not easy.

At Portland, by double digits, or by eight, at Denver by 12, Indiana, by 22, and then Houston by 15. It's not like their four wins were against the dregs. It's not like it was, you know, bad teams that they were playing. They were playing some of the best teams to get to this win streak. And also, one thing that's interesting with New Orleans is if you're looking, we were just talking about their upcoming schedule. If you look into late March, April, the last month of the season, their final 15 games, they only have one game against a team that's currently in the postseason. That's a serious threat, Philadelphia.

They also face Orlando as well. So they have two games against current playoff opponents, Orlando and Philadelphia. Everybody else is out of a playoffs at the moment. You have some tougher games like San Antonio, but that's about it. That's about it. They could really win a lot of games at the end of the year. And you say that, you know, it's a suspected loss tonight and maybe they will. But that is revenge game.

By the way, sorry, let me, I correct myself. San Antonio did slide into the eight scenes. So they are currently the team that would be in the postseason as well. San Antonio, Philadelphia, and Orlando. All right. Well, look, you counted the Lakers game as a probable loss, which of course it is, but cannot discount it. It's a revenge game, Kev.

You got Ingram and Lanzo going back. I mean, I believe, let me look at their schedule real quick. They played a game. They played at home against L.A. They have not played there. So this will be their first trip. this will be the first time back in the arena for Lonzo, Hart, Ingram,

that group that got traded. So maybe you get a, and Lonzo's coming off his best game. And you know what Ingram's done. Who knows? That'd be kind of fun. That'd be fun if they made a game of it or if Ingram went off or Lonzo went off in the game tonight at L.A.

You know, 10.30 start. I'm going to power through and stay up tonight and watch that game. Look at you. I'm going to power through. Being in the East Coast now. I've recently been trying to... How awful is it? Seriously. I mean...

No, it's for sports, like, when they're starting at that time, oh my goodness, you just... Your whole life, like, I don't understand. I don't understand how people do it. For real. I mean, I feel... I stayed up last night to watch the Grizzlies Kings, and I was exhausted by the time it was over.

Put it this way. Like, moving to the West Coast has been, a life-changing experience for me in terms of football, NFL football at 10 a.m. in the morning is crazy. I know. It is awesome. Oh, you love it. Great.

Oh, I love it. Yeah. It is great. And then with basketball starting at four, the night games at 730, I do really, really love that. On the East Coast, you just have to adjust. I'm thankful to do this for my job. I'm internally, you know, grateful for that. but 10.30 is tough.

It's just hard. You're talking about 1 o'clock before that thing gets over. Yes, especially with like early wake-up time for like, you know, driving, you know, parents to appointments and stuff like that. But Friday night, Saturday I can sleep in. There you go. I'm going to stay out late tonight and watch. Pelicans. All right.

Last thing. I do want to alert everybody to go read your article that you wrote that came out since we last spoke, the storylines that could define the 2020s in the NBF. you wrote many different headlines and then text for it. Let me ask you. I'm going to, I'm going to point everybody. Did you read the article, Chris? Did you read it? Of course I read it. Oh, you did? You're like it. This doesn't sound like you read it. You're one of very few articles. You're one of very few people that I do read. It's hard to get me to read the articles anymore, but I figure I have to. You just saw the tweet. You're like, oh, maybe I'll read that.

maybe I'll read this. That's me usually. I'm not going to lie. That being said, you try to make some predictions and it's so hard. Like at one point, I remember during the article, you mentioned, and let me see if I could do this off the top of my head. I swear to you, I don't know, it was like the Lakers, Clippers, Bucks, I think. This was under the who's going to rule the next decade, right?

Oh, yeah. No, no, no, no. But here's the thing. you also mentioned, which is absolutely true, this is impossible to predict because we would have never imagined about Miami, about Golden State. And so things are so fluid. And who knows, all it would take is somebody leaving that we don't expect last year. I mean, God, if I would have told you a year ago, the Clippers are going to have Kauai Leonard and Paul George, you would have lost your mind. So you took on some things that are going to be very, very hard

predict, but which of the subheadings was your favorite to write about? Well, just to read the subheads written by Justin Barrier, who edited the article, Justin and I had subheads for, will the game change in the 2020s? We had, will TV ratings continue to decline? We had, which team will rule the decade? How will LeBron's historic career end? We'll talk a lot about LeBron. That was my favorite one to write to actually answer your question, but we'll talk

plenty about LeBron as we always do. But of the other ones, I think it was, will the game change? Because of where we're at now, we're talking about ratings, we're talking about how the mid-season tournament and the playoff playing tournament could be something to boost

interest and all that. But I do think it's worth thinking about somebody like Kirk Goldsbury who wrote sprawball this past year, who at the Sloan Sports and the conference, talked about how you can use rules to make the game as aesthetically pleasing as possible.

And I was thinking about Kirk, Kirk's suggestion to narrow the paint like it was before in the past, which could increase the potency of post-up plays, which could thus sort of stop or curtail the rise of the three-point shot, which is not, it's not stopping. More and more teams are going to shoot threes every year until it plateaus around probably 40 to 45 percent. of shots being three. That's where I've, you know, executives I've talked to who do

analytics think it'll stop. And that's a lot. That's nearly half. So is that something that people don't love? I don't know. Charles Barkley doesn't love it. Shack doesn't love it. You know, your uncle might not love it. Your local favorite sports dog radio show hosts might not like it either. So maybe, maybe at some point in the 2020s, we'll talk about how the rules can be changed to make the game more aesthetically pleasing. just like 20 years ago with Jordan towards the end of his career. There's a lot of isolation, slower pace. So they got rid of hand checking to give more freedom of movement.

They put in the rule where players who are on the post can only have their back to the basket for five seconds. They changed the half court violation from 10 seconds to 8 seconds. All things to try to speed up the game and that's what's happened. It's changed the game and in my opinion has made it more beautiful than ever. But at some point, if there's so many threes that it is stunted, in growth or people aren't as interested. Maybe at some point this decade will have conversation about

rules that can be changed to make the game, tweak the game in a way that makes it more appealing to as many people as possible. So that's what I'm thinking about and it's what I wish someone like Charles Barkley or Shaquille O'Neal would bring up when they criticize Christop's poor Zingas for not posting up.

Because I look, it is correct for the Dallas Mavericks not to post up Porzangis because he is a poor post player they are a better team with Porzingis spacing the floor from three that is why they have one of the all-time great offenses as of today

but I also can understand Barkley and Shaq and other people being like man wouldn't it be great if a 7 foot three guy wasn't a post wouldn't it be great if there was more value in the post shot and that's where I would like to see the conversation the conversation steered this decade about

using the rules to dictate the way the game is played and making it as pleasing as possible for as many people as possible, which was the point of Kirk's book, the point of his speech at Sloan. And I hope that's what really enters mainstream NBA discourse. And that starts with some of the guys on T&T like Shaq and Barclay, because their voices matter and informs and educates fans. Yeah.

You also wonder if it takes the NBA to step in and do something about it, or does it naturally take place? There was a time just very, very recently, where everybody in the NFL started throwing the ball all over the field, right? They all started throwing the ball all over the field. And then I was listening to Kevin Clark speak about this. There's a lot of wisdom in this that all of these

teams then built defenses to deal with you throwing the ball all over the field. And so what somebody like the Ravens did or the Titans in a smaller way, but the Ravens, they went and said, all right, we are going to line up and we are going to punish you.

Like, this is the way everybody's built their defense now, smaller, faster, being able to keep up with everything. Well, now what happens when we just line it up and run it down your throat? And so is there a way? I don't know unless you change back some of the defensive rules

if there is a way for somebody out there to say, all right, you're not going to get to play like this against us. And so it inevitably becomes a copycat league and teams start changing. But you need somebody like the Ravens, right? Because I think if I read right, six of the top seven passing offenses aren't in the playoffs.

I mean, imagine if I would have said that a couple of years ago. Sometimes this stuff changes naturally, right? And somebody out there just builds their team differently. I don't know. If the Clippers win it, they're not a shoot 53's team.

They're not. So I guess maybe they would be an agent for change possibly. Well, and it's like at one point everybody, you know, this is a long time ago, but everybody's like, you need pocket passer,

a great pocket passer. And now we see one of the best teams in the league, the Baltimore Ravens around a mobile quarterback. We see mobile quarterbacks everywhere, and we see teams build plays and build offenses that maximize on that ability to move around the field and create plays that work for that. Like Lamar Jackson, dude,

dude's breaking records, man, as a Russian quarterback. And partially not just because he can run and scramble off of broken plays, but because of designed plays that the Ravens installed. for him. So it's been great to see that happen over time. Though, I mean, it's like one of my favorite plays all time is that long, I think 50, 60 yard touchdown by Michael Vick. I think this was 0, 05 off a broken play. Those were the days, man, watching Vic. I miss him, man. I miss Michael Vic. We have mobile quarterbacks that run and move around the field, but I miss, I do miss

Michael Vick. Well, this guy just broke his record for goodness sakes. Yeah, I know. It's awesome. It's so great. This guy has been absolutely out of his mind, Lamar Jackson. So, I mean, if you like somebody that runs around, you may not like it as much when he's playing against the Patriots. We'll see.

We'll see what happens. How do you feel it? For the Patriots, it's got to, look, they're going to get through Tennessee. And if they get through Tennessee, then they're going to get through Mahomes. Another guy who's mobile Rogers-esque mobility. They're going to go into Kansas City to face him.

And then Baltimore would have to win. And they have to go into Baltimore. more poor out. Okay. It is a tough path. I saw your, I saw your tweet. I saw your Twitterbacks though.

Tanner Hill, Mahomes and then Lamar Jackson. They would have to get through. I saw your tweet where you were, boy, you were mad about the Patriots. I saw it, Kev.

I saw it last week. Woo. We. I mean, how could you not be mad? How could you not be? Belichick after the, like,

Belichick, he is the greatest coach of all time, period. and he is somebody that very rarely makes poor decisions in my opinion. It's growing up a Patriots fan. I can remember when he let lawyer Maloy go days before the season started. I can remember him trading Richard Seymour when he was due for a new contract, and everybody's freaking out.

Belichick can really not be questioned often. However, I do think the decision at the beginning of the first half in week 17, when they could have called a timeout and retained time, they could have called timeouts and been aggressive and going for scoring opportunity. And they did not. They did not. And that shows a lack of trust in the offense. It shows a lack of trust in Tom Brady. And maybe

they are right to not have that trust in the overall offense. However, with the timeouts, with the trust in Tom Brady to not make mistakes, the pick six was an aberration, I think they should have at least gone for it. And that could have made a difference of getting

a buy or not. I don't think you should pass up those opportunities. I thought was a weak move. I thought Belichick after the game saying that if they had gotten a first down on the first down when they ran the ball they would have went for it. Please. They weren't aggressive from the start.

And that's what frustrated me. All right. And now you're going to win three games to get to the Super Bowl. Do you think they'll beat Tennessee? Yes. Okay. I do. I think Tennessee's offense has been awesome.

Bill Barnwell and his column on ESPN. this week had a great note about how i think it was since week seven or something like that they've scored a touchdown on 86% of their red zone opportunities oh which is insane but he had mentioned that the team this decade that's been closest to that was i believe the 2012 Patriots of some um who scored 81% of their red zone opportunities um but then in the postseason it dropped a 50% which is still great point being is that tennessee has been fueled significantly by their red zone success. I can't see that happening against the Patriots defense.

I can't see that number sustaining in the postseason. So for New England, I would pick them to win this weekend. As for beating Kansas City in Kansas City, I don't know. We'll talk about that if they get through this weekend. Kevin, I will talk to you on Monday. Have a great weekend. Looking forward to it, Chris. Have it going.

Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're here. Google, it's a rating review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. and we will talk to you on Tuesday.