The Ringer NBA Show - David West on Playing With Chris Paul, His Will to Win, His Championships With the Warriors, and More | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 25, 2021

Logan and Raja are joined this week by two-time NBA champion David West and they get into the nitty-gritty of his long career, starting with his time playing for the New Orleans Hornets alongside Chris Paul (0:30), those wild Eastern Conference finals series with the Pacers against the Big Three Heat (23:00), and declining his player option in Indiana to go play with Tim Duncan on the Spurs during his final year in the league (34:15). Then, of course, they get into his fantastic two-championship run with the Warriors (39:15) and his efforts, as Principal COO of the Professional Collegiate League, to bring financial compensation to college basketball players (52:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: David West Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Twice a week, Van Lathen and Rachel Lindsay dissect the biggest topics in black culture, politics, and sports on their show, Higher Learning. They discuss the most important and timely conversations while also frequently inviting guests on the podcast and occasionally debating each other. Check out Higher Learning on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's popping? Real Ones, Logan Murdoch here with Raja Bell. Raja, we have someone in a building that is a real one. Someone that I covered for a year played as if NBA. veteran has played a long time, he's retired now doing a lot of great things off the court. We have

David West in the building, Roger. I did not like David West when we played. I didn't like him. He was no, but like, that's a compliment De West because like, I mean, he was physical. He didn't take no shit. Like you were always going to be, it was, you had to bring your lunch panel.

It's one of those kids. You like him on your team, but you don't like playing against him, bro. And I said screen. And he said good screens. Roger. Okay, great, great, great. entering point, what was a play that David did and y'all was playing against each other where you were like, man, fuck this motherfucker. Where you had the, where you had the, where he set a screen did an extra elbow that it was just was just out of pocket in your eyes? What did he do where you were like, damn, dude? For real? I don't have, I know, I don't have one play that sticks out, but by the nature of like the way he played and what I was tasked to do by like chasing people around the court and trying to make their life difficult. Like his job, was to fuck me up, like, or at least try to, you know? So, and mine was to try to run away from it.

So, like, we were always in one of those, like, damn, he hit me again. Like, I got to, you know, your head was on a swivel when you were running around her. Right. D. West, how important was it to fuck up little guys like Rajah when they try to run into paint and try to run by you? And how important it was it to give them a little, a little bow? No, see, that's how I stayed in the lead. Like, that's how, that's what my career, that's why I had very.

value because I was willing to screen. I knew how important it was to, like, hit the best defender on the other team. And free up, you know, particularly when I was playing with Chris, you know, teams would, you know, I know, I know you remember this. Teams would change up who was guarding him in the pick of the role because different guys could do different things. If you had like a physical guard, he would try to body him, a quicker guard would, you know, maybe chase him over the top, deny him the ball. So I needed him to get screened so I could get to my shot. So I had to become a good screening. Look, he, he, Kurt, you remember Kurt Thomas, right?

Like, Kurt, Kurt was a great offensive player, man. People don't remember Kurt, like, led to NCAA and scoring and rebounding at one point. But, boy, Kurt was, Kurt towards the end of his career, like, and when he was with, he was the best screener I ever played with, dog. And he, too, was able to, like, really extend that career, because he knocked down shots and he would bust your ass coming off for some screens.

Right, right, absolutely. Absolutely. Oof. You talked about, this is a good segue, D. West, you talk about the pick and roll and you talked about Chris Paul. That was one of the,

that was one of the first guys you played with and somebody you got real success with. What did he kind of do to unlock whatever you had when he was drafted? How did he help your career early on in New Orleans?

Well, he was, you know, he was a lead dog. You know, he came in. You know, we knew we were going to draft him. That was my, it was after my second year, and I only played like 50, maybe, I played like 30 games. I was hurt most of that year.

So the organization was like, we're going in a different direction. You know, we think we got a franchise level point guard. They're like, he's small, but he's dynamic. He can really make plays. He can hold his own. So, you know, he came in and Chris just wanted to play.

He just wanted to play. wanted to play an open style. And, you know, anybody that knows me in terms of my college career, you know, I could only score around the basket. I mean, I think I, you know, I scored, you know, most of my points in college were like 16, 15 feet and in.

There were hardly any jumpers. Everything was post moves or, you know, just scoring off the move going to the basket. So I, you know, I just worked that whole summer. I changed my regimen that summer. I wasn't really doing a lot of drills. I was just doing catching shooting and I was going in the gym

making at least, I mean, we're making at least 500 shots a day. And that's just catching the shooting. I wasn't doing any, you know, dribble moves or running or anything like that. So I developed the ability to just knock down shots once I got my feet set. And I was able to adjust to, you know,

to what Chris needed and what our team needed in terms of having the, you know, the space to let him thrive to pick a roll. Hey, when you said, Dee West, when you said he came in and wanted to play more of an open style,

was that something that watching him play, like when you guys got together, people figured that out, or Chris came in and was like, look, this is the way I see it, this is the way we want to do it. How did that evolution of styles

from the team perspective kind of take place? Nah, it was like the first pickup game. Like you automatically knew it wasn't going to be running no, you know, Utah type offense or San Antonio type offense. You know,

Coach Scott was the coach at the time. So, you know, we did have, you know, some Princeton stuff, but that was like way down the list. I mean, I think we led the league in picking rolls, you know, just that read because we were doing it, you know, every play just about. And then we would add, you know, sometimes it'd be two guys in it, but some variation of the picket roll is what we got to.

And it was just Chris's style. Like he needed the ball in his hands, you know, we didn't need to have, you know, 10 seconds of the possession where the ball is in someone else's hands before he touched it. So, you know, it was something that just naturally evolved again. It was like the first pickup game we played. We knew we were going to have to just be a pick and roll team. D.S., when we see, you know, I know you guys, both are players,

but as a fan, we see Chris Paul as just being a really, really, really, really great player, right? He can get into the pick and roll, can do all these things. but you talk about playing with him in pickup and you talk about playing alongside him in the games. What about Chris Paul makes the game so much easier that a casual fan just doesn't see, right? What does he do that, you know, helps you out in the pick and roll?

Like subtle things that he does that makes other players around him really good or maybe amplifies other basketball players? Well, I mean, without giving away too much because he's still playing. It's like, you know, it's like just the idea of spacing and, you know, knowing that, you know, spacing is really the king. And so he's, you know, he, you know, he's doing it in Phoenix now. He's got those guys spaced.

You know, nobody's really moving when he's moving. So, you know, you're creating those passing alleys and lanes. And he's, you know, again, he's a brilliant passer and he can see the floor. So if you can shoot it or finish at the rim, you know, he can make you better. I always felt because I play with a pretty good pick and roll player too with Steve Nash. And both of them had the ability, Logan, like to keep that dribble alive, just really to put you as a defender in a really precarious situation. Like, damn, he's getting close enough to a scoring position.

Do I have to leave? And as soon as you left, both of those are able to like do. what D. West just talked about, just put it right on somebody's hands. And if you stayed home, they were both good enough, you know, to score it. So with that space and that kind of, you know, those alleys he talked about, they were just able to keep that dribble alive so damn long. I want to ask you because they're, they seem like two different people, Nash and and CP3 in terms of personality, right? Like both great leaders, but CP3 seems like he's got a little fire in his belly. Like he's not afraid to get in there and be in your face. And Steve was more

of a quiet reserve leader. You were also someone, though, that had a voice, like not afraid to, like, were you guys a match made in heaven in that regard? Did you guys have to iron that out? Am I wrong on who CP3 is behind closed doors as a leader? Right. No, he, you know, C was one of those guys where, you know,

he really took the lead because he wanted to win. And he had, you know, he's got a little bit of an edge to him, right, a little mean street. And, you know, when you first see it, you know, I remember like, oh, that little, like, you know, you see him do something or see somebody piss him off. And then it comes out, you're like, oh, I get it now. You know, we had some instances like that, his first year where there were a few guys that he, you know, wanted to prove himself against. And, man, you know, he had some battles. And there were times where you're like, I got to, you know, I would, you know, step in sometimes.

but then there are other times we like, you know, let him handle it and he handled it. And then in terms of just the way he and Nash would play, you know, it's interesting that you say that because, you know, I felt like, you know, Nash was one of those guys where he was just very, very, because his feet were always moving. You know, I thought he was, he was in that pick and roll dangerous because he were, feet were moving, but he'd also shoot behind. Chris didn't shoot behind the pick much. you know, what C's advantage was was that cross-dribble, right? So he was able to get beyond the big and then cross to the other side.

Right, and keep the guy on his hip. So it'd really be like, damn, if he can score this, he could throw the lob or he can, he got, you know, drop it back to me at the top of the key. So it would put guys in a tough, tough predicament. That's why he's able to score the ball

and assist in such a high rate because he always had those always has those options available. Listen, listen, they teach, they, like in every, you got young kids, Wes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, like, we didn't have all these workout gurus, like, when we came up, like, you learn that shit on your own. But, like, I take my boys and they work, like, religiously on snake dribbles.

And that's CP3's influence, right? Like, that coming off that screen and getting back inside the big. It's pretty cool to watch, though. Like, that you've made an impact. Like, there's a whole generation of kids training to do what you made a living doing. Right, right. D. West, how was, we talked about Nash and Chris Paul. We talked about guys that he got up for early in his career.

I believe his career, his first year was when Nash won MVP of 405. I'm pretty sure. Was Nash one of those guys that CP was like, he acted a little different right before he played CP before y'all played the Sons? What was that like? Yeah, he definitely did. He tried to win that matcher. You know, that was something.

that, you know, I remember as a young player, nobody told me that, and it was, it was actually his, I think it was his first year or so, Chris's first year, because we were actually in Oklahoma. But Jim Clemens, who used to be, you know, coach, you know, a long time legendary coach with Phil Jackson, assistant coach, he told us, he was like, you know, we started the preseason, and we were just playing hard.

We were young, and, you know, Coach Scott got us doing all this condition. We were just playing hard. And then probably toward the end of the preseason, and maybe the first or second game. Coach Clemens says to me and him, he says, yo, you guys are you're good guys. He's like, you're competitive. He's like, but y'all got to try to win some of these fucking matchups,

like just like that. And I was like, what? He was like, no, I'm serious. You know, I know we're playing a team game and he was talking about Chris, you know, because Chris was 15 assists and all the other stuff. He's like, no, we need you to like beat the other guy on the stat sheet on the other team.

And that was the first time it was put to me like that. And I remember like there was a, you know, there was a shift in him. And like, because when he went up against Jason Kidd, it was like, yo, like Chris. Was he locked in before it did?

Yeah, like a hundred miles an hour, you know, shoot around was intense. He was in a full sweat, you know, like I got a full practice in. And, or that was sort of, the way he would gear himself up for Nash and kid. He had a little thing with Jason Terry, too. Some reason.

But he would, you know, that's just the way he was. It's the way he was wired. You know, BD was the same way with BD. all the guards, you know, he was trying to prove himself against. DeWil was in that mix too, right? Because they came in around the same time, right? Like, that was real show. Let me ask you, because I did have some battles with Chris.

Like, that wasn't my job all the time because, you know, he was a little too quick for me. But he was physical as hell. And he, like, tell me about him on the court, dog. Like, how much shit does he talk? Yeah, he does. I mean, you know, he's a competitor, man. Right. You know, he's going to chirp.

You know, he's going to throw cheap shots. You know, he's going to do what he has to do to get an advantage, especially when he was young and, you know, a little bit more fiery and he had, you know, that speed was just, his quickness, you know, was just unreal at times. And so, you know, he was chirpy.

He was nasty. And if you, you know, if you got at him, I mean, he tried to get back at you. You know, he and kid had a battle in Jersey one time that was like, I mean, we went to like overtime or something, but it was nasty, like, just brutal. But, you know, and it was something that he, you know, it was a matchup he wanted to win. It was a matchup.

He felt like he had to be able to, you know, to get an advantage or at least have an advantage when he was on the floor. Because it meant, you know, it meant, you know, getting that stature where you stood in the league in terms of amongst other elite guards. What was it like, oh, wait, when he's going up against Kobe for the MVP? What was that season like? Because I know on my end, I'm rooting for Kobe. I'm a Lakers fan. Yeah. What was it like on your end for how good he played that season?

What was his mindset? Particularly throughout the season, particularly those three or four matchups against the Lakers where he does take on that matchup really seriously. How was that being in the locker room with him during that time? You know, those were heated battles. That year, I mean, we really thought we had a chance to win the NBA Championship. So we literally went into every game feeling like we could win. You know, Chris was, at that time, again, that was a few years in.

So he was confident. And, you know, he was embracing those big games. He was embracing, you know, playing against Kobe. And then, you know, he had earned Kobe's respect. You know, we were playing. We played them. And it might have been the year before, but we had a game against him and he went off. And then the very next game, next time we played them, like Kobe made it a point to guard

Chris the entire game. Like that's what we knew. You knew. We knew he had his, like, he, it was, he didn't work nothing. It was no, like, every time he was on the floor and Chris was on the floor, he was guarding Chris. And I was like, damn. And Colby's like sitting down, picking him up full court.

I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, and he knew it because it kind of took, you know, you get the jump ball. And we got the jump ball. and usually he holds it for about two seconds. And like in that first second, Kobe was in his shit. I mean, like, smelling his breath.

And I was like, oh, here we go, you know. Okay. Was he pissed when he didn't get the MVP? What was the reaction when he didn't? No, he wasn't tripping, man. He was, you know, he was, I think he felt, you know, he felt really, really good about the year we had. You know, he felt good about,

where he was. Yeah, he was disappointed, but he wasn't trippled. I just want to ask real quick, one more just about CP before we get on. I know we got to get to some other stuff. Like the team he's on now, some of the stuff that you just talked about in terms of having that dog in him and the edge and just embracing the matchup, you know what I mean? Because it does boil down to like this is, it's a team game dog, but it's man to man. It's hand-to-hand out there, you know?

Like, you got to win your matchup. I feel like those were things that a young Phoenix team. was missing. Clearly talent, like, with, like, out of the, coming out of the pores with the Devin Bookers and the Aitans and some of those pieces, but something to tie it all together with the attitude. How do you see that, like, coming to form there in Phoenix?

They're 20 and 11 sitting in fourth in the West. You think they have, you think they got the chops to make some noise out there in the West? Yeah, you know, I think they'll, you know, I didn't expect them to be forward. But, I mean, they got, they got a great coach, man. I mean, got to give it the money. And he is really, really, I mean, he is a really, really good coach.

And, you know, Chris is the kind of guy that, you know, Moni can coach through him. And that's probably what they were missing. So, you know, most guys who understand the league and you understand this Raj and I like, you got to be coachable, right? We're pros. We got egos and families making money, whatever. But the bottom line is, you got to shut up, right? And listen to what the coach is saying.

You got to shut up. close your mouth, open your ears, understand what the scout report is, go out there and try to do, period. Like, no deviating from that, right? And that's hard for some guys. But then there are some guys who, you know, the guys that play a long time

are the guys that get that concept. And then the guys that can have the long-lasting impact like Chris, they get it, and then they're able to pass it on to the rest of the team. You know what I mean? So now when it's like, you know, we got a shoot around at this time, everybody be on time, let's be the plane on time.

He's going to do it. And he's got a way of doing it, right? He's going to keep the locker room light. He's going to joke about guys. Like, you know, that's how he does it. He's like, oh, you know, who's going to be late today? But, you know, in a way where, okay, now we're going to find you. But it's a leadership.

It's a accountability way. And it's working, man. That's who he is. Like, he's going to make sure that, you know, we're here to do a job. We're here to play. We're here to compete. Get better, win. go out and try to win every game we possibly can.

And he embodies that. And he's able to pass that on the other guys in the locker room so that if you're one of the guys that doesn't do it, you stand out in a bad way. What was it like in New Orleans towards the end? Because I'm trying to transition to your time in Indiana. In 2011, you opt out of a deal, you hurt your knee. It seems like Chris Paul's, you know,

that was when he was getting the trade rumors, was right before he got traded to L.A. What was your mindset? Was it, okay, it's over New Orleans? I got to figure something else out somewhere else. And then how did Indiana come into play as a team that you wanted to sign with? Yeah.

Yeah, so our time in New Orleans ended, you know, when they tried to trade Tyson. Once they, they think the Hornets tried to move Tyson during the year and the year before maybe or something. But basically, once they tried to move Tyson and then they traded Tyson, It was, it wasn't, though, you know, we were, both he and I were too close with Tyson. We felt like Tyson was, was a, you know, he was a deep, you know, one of the main reasons we were who we were.

And it made no sense in our minds to try to move him. Again, this is no disrespect. He went to go on and win a title in Dallas. Like, he was a big, yeah. Right. Yeah, Dallas won with basically our team, right? Tyson and Pagent. But, you know, like, we always looked at that.

We felt like that was our title. If we had stayed together a couple more years, that was the one we could have got because we were better than Dallas. We had been, we eliminated Dallas in the playoffs. So we, you know, our challenge in the West was always San Antonio and the Lakers. So, you know, when they tried to move Tyson, you know, we had some other stuff.

We had a chance to get Rip Hamilton. They didn't want to do that, you know, for whatever reason. We were like, yo, it's time to go, bro. And you see that, right, Rip? Like, we had a chance to get ripped. Yeah, they did not know that. Yeah, it's like, yo, y'all tripping. And so, you know, that year, we had a good year.

I tore my ACL, and I knew Chris was, you know, again, Monty was he gone? No. Was he out? No, no, no. It was just Monty was a new coach, and we love Monty, but, you know, we had been in New Orleans, and we were just not sure the organization was in a position. to get right. And then when I tore my knee up,

knowing the lockout was pending, I told him, he was the first person. And I said, see, I probably won't, I probably won't resign with the hornets. I got,

you know, I think there's a better chance to win, you know, in the east. And there's a better chance to, you know, be a part of a team

that I feel like can make a splash. And this was, you know, during the, during the lockout and we're figuring out where I potentially was going to go.

So that's when Indiana came into the, into the picture. It was Indy or Boston. I knew I was going to the east. So I just, I chose Indy because they were younger. You know, Boston had a chance, but I knew they were, they were only going to be there one or two years. Yeah.

They were to win now situation. And, you know, again, ironically, they, I think they went to the conference finals, and then next year they broke up. So I would have been in Boston during a rebuild. So I was in Indy. You know, the guys were great. They were young. They needed exactly what I had, you know, veteran leadership, toughness, just to know how to do things, you know, day to day.

And it was a good run there. Yeah, that was your transition to elder statesman and kind of, you know, bringing it all together, kind of that role we talked about with CP. Let me ask you, though, because I was, that was towards the end of my career. I live in the Miami-Forda-Dal area, right? and you had two series, was it, 11, 12, 12, 13 with the heat. Yeah, we had three of them actually. Three of them, okay. Well, look, I'm going to keep it a buck.

I'm not a heat fan, but, like, I was watching those in real fear for the heat because, like, y'all presented a lot of problems for them boys. Man, they were tough matchups across. Talk to me about those series. Yeah, no, that was, you know, that was some of my most, you know, those years in Indy was, you know, was literally like some of my best basketball, but my favorite basketball.

You know what I mean? Like that, where like you literally enjoying it every day. You're like, damn, I can't wait to get on the bus. I can't wait to go play. Because it's like,

you know, we lost a year before to them in the conference semis. My first year, and, you know, we knew, we were like,

damn, you know, we closer to these guys than we thought. Yeah. And I was like, yo, we,

we're going to be able to tussing with these guys. Like, we thought, you know, again, when everybody saw, you know, Bronon and D. Wade, I mean, in their primes together, we're like, man, this is a challenge. That's just going to be, you know, insurmountable.

But, you know, we had the guys, I always say, they were young enough and dumb enough to believe, you know what I mean? Right. And we were able to put, you know, I thought we beat them up and pushed them harder than anyone else. Was that the scout? Was the scout to beat them up? You know, to a degree. Because, you know, Frank was, Coach Vogel was in.

in the mindset, like he was old school. You know, he just liked playing with two bigs, and he just refused to not have two big guys. And at the time, was crazy. When I got to Indiana, I was about, I was maybe 238. In New Orleans, I played literally between, you know,

into 230s mostly, but I was about 235, 238. Roy had lost because coach before him, Jim O'Brien wanted Roy to lose a lot of weight because he was trying to, you know, play small. He wanted to play with one big and four smalls. So Roy had gotten down to like 240, right? Frank comes

on board and he's like, I want you motherfuckers to be big. I was like, what? I want you to be big. You know, just get as big as you possibly can. I don't give it down. He's like, if we got to walk it up, we'll walk it up. But I just want to be big and nasty.

So I went from like 238 to 265. I was playing at 265. Damn. Most of my time. Who was a big boy? Yeah, that's big boy. Yeah, you know, Sean Window had us just, we were, I mean, it was weights every day, weights.

You know, we were taking shakes and we were just bulked up. Roy was 285, 290. That was some offensive linemen. That's what he wanted. That's what Frank wanted. Frank wanted us big and be physical and it worked for us. It did. It did.

Hey, listen, they, I secretly, if you could get some real info for behind us. high and closed doors, they were scared. Some of them boys were scared because that shit was that close. But I always seem like whenever I watch the Pacers, because, you know, the invoked thing was a hate on the Miami Heat. So I was like, oh, okay, well then, you know, this is the team that we think is going to beat the Miami Heat. But it always seems like something went wrong at the end or something,

like around the season. Why was that on your team? There would be like the Lance Stevenson blowing in the ear. There will be just some self-destrooted. constructive shit that you guys would do. Why? Why couldn't you guys, why were you guys the elite team that just couldn't figure it out? Because I feel like y'all had the talent and just some of the just off to beat them.

But I don't know, where was the disconnect over there, D.S.? We got greedy. You know, we got greedy in terms of thinking we needed, you know, we knew we were good enough. But then we got, you know, sometimes, you know, greed will get you. So we got greedy. We went after buying them. and we were just being, we were being greedy. We were trying to be too big, you know what I mean?

Too, too, you know, you got Andrew Biden and Roy Hibbert. You know, we didn't have a big guy on our team under 260 pounds. Like we were like literally the heaviest team like outside of Memphis. But, you know, even behind Zibo and Mark, they didn't have the size that we had. So, you know, it was like, you know, we got greedy. And then we just had, you know, immaturity, you know, Paul and George, these guys are like in year three, you know, so you ask, like, we're, you know, you, you, you, you knock off the wizard, you knock off, you know, you're in, in Miami for God knows how many days of the year, man, we were playing them twice in the preseason, four times in the regular season, and then seven times in the playoffs. So it's like, guys are like, you know, so you just, what you mean? You know, wasn't sitting in game room service watching movies.

I wasn't in room service? What's you talking? What's going on? Exactly. Like, we had to get, you know, the young guy, we had to get yelled at. Like, be sure I had to yell at us about it. Like, oh, we're in the playoffs, cut it out. Like, no more, you know, that type of stuff.

We were learning, going through it. And again, we, you know, we got close. And then there were just a couple times where, you know, we had a chance to put these guys down 3-1, right? And, I mean, Dwayne Wade, and it was like one of the greatest games in NBA history. What Dwayne Wade and LeBron did to us, man, they were like... At home.

Dude, it was like, you can't do anything. D. Wade is taking off outside the paint. Like, you know what's it like to be on the other side of that, D.S, where you're like, damn, this dude is good. These dudes are good. Fuck. Like, what do I do? What is that like to be on the other end right there?

Man, it's crazy because you're like, you know, we're doing everything right. Like, we're playing to pick up. roll right and then Bronn hits a top turnaround. He hasn't even seen the basket against Roy. And then you know, it's like D. Wade is like just downhill.

He's shot faking and one and from a step inside to three just making play after play. And we just you know, you get to a point where you like like these guys are who you know, they're all cast to be right. You know what I mean? Like they all

film. I always say, it's just a helpless feeling, man. It's, I mean, it is. It is because you could do everything right. Like your Kobe's, your D-Wa-Bron's, like, you're going to do everything in your power to stop it. You've read the scout. You've studied it.

You're where you're supposed to be, and they're still going to do what they do. Like, it's like, fuck. When Bronn made that, Bronn made a layup against us at the end of the game. I think we would have went up too old or something if we had won. Yeah. Something crazy.

And that was in Miami, I think, right? Yeah. Yeah. That play. He literally, they had run that play at the end of the end of the games all year. And he never drove it. He never drove the ball. He always, it's, they drove it up because it's the play where he catches it to his left.

And Rajah knows that that's his favorite shot to shoot, spot to shoot from, like on that wing where he can go to his left, sidestep and shoot a three. So he was hit, that's the shot that we were playing him for. And just in that moment, you know, we're small, Roy. is out of the game. We got sand number, you know, in the help side, because we're expecting LeBron to catch it in isopal at the top of the queue. Like, that small, that small little thing changes, changes history.

How hard was it for you to, like, realize, like, as fun as this is, as much of a ride has this been, I got to go somewhere else to see if I could get this chip, like, to make the call that you ultimately had to make. What was, and before you get something to build on that question, And when was the moment you thought that? Was it when was the moment you were like, a man, I don't care how much bread you paid me? I'm opting out.

It was a combination of Lance, you know, Paul being hurt. You know, me, knowing my age, I might have been like 35. And like, you know, and Roger, I'll tell you, like playing into May and June consistently is no joke. And the style of play that we were playing, you know, I had already had some things going on, right? Like my knee, my foot, my back. And you were carrying all that weight.

Right, and the weight. So I'm saying to myself, yo, D, you got to, you know, and what drives you crazy? And I'm going to be honest with you. I was sitting, I didn't watch the NBA finals for every, you know, no year I was in Indy because I felt like we should have been there. And so I was seeing guys win. I know this my game put in the time.

He don't care. Like I care. You know what I mean? Like, that stuff drives you crazy. And so, you know, my decision to leave was all of that,

plus just wanting to make a decision that was going to make me feel, you know, feel good. And just make me feel like, you know, this is about you. This is about your personal happiness. This is about your personal journey.

And to hell with the, you know, David West, always being the consummate professional, always being the guy that people saying, you know, he's doing the right thing. I was like, fuck that. Like, I want to go.

Like, Tim Duncan, the Spurs with my, like my fantasy team when I was a kid, you know, the whole idea of not having, again, it's no knock to them, right? But like, everybody talks about Tim, athleticism and flashy shit. I didn't have none of that shit. Like, I played, I just played the game.

I didn't give a damn if you knew me, didn't know me. I'll give a damn about no endorsements, being on TV. That shit never matter. to me. So I always admired the Spurs for the way to carry themselves. So when I had a chance to go there, I was like, fuck it, I'm going to go play.

Was there any other options? Was there any other thing or used, like, I'm locked into the Spurs? Like, what's up? I could have gone to the Warriors that year. I had seven, eight, nine teams, man. I could have, I had my pick of the litter. And I was like, I'm, I'm, I'm,

Tim, I knew it was Tim's last year. I knew it. Yeah, yeah. You know, he said, look, man, I don't know if we can win, but I think, you know, with Lamarcus coming in and you coming in, we're going to be right in the mix. And that was enough of me. I was like, you know what? You're right. We're going to be in the mix.

So, you know, we had, you know, the most winning season they had in franchise history was that year. Yeah. Y'all were good. It was just the fact that the Warriors were just 73, but people forget the Spurs. Y'all was right on their ass. You all right on the heels that year. David, we know the money aspect from our end of turning down bread, but what is it like for you when you, you're doing it, you know, you're having a family, you're raising this. It's not just a like,

it's not just a number to you, right? Like you're, you're having a lifestyle change. What is that like? And why did you, what was it like to have that in your mind and also make the decision, fuck it, I'm still going to take less money and just do this? What was that like? What was the mindset like when you did that? So when we signed the deal in Indy, I always intended for that to be a three-year deal because I had already been the extra years. So I signed for two years. and then we signed for another three years, but that extra third year was an option year. So I was basically signed another two-year deal.

We always sort of planned it that way. I had an opportunity to go to other places for, you know, more money, but it wasn't about the bread at the time. If anybody knows me, I've never been complicated. I never got caught up in the whole keeping up with the Joneses shit that exists in the NBA. So, you know, I wasn't in the flashy cars and having multiple mansions and all that. Never bought jewelry. I didn't do any of that.

So financially, you know, in terms of my level and where I felt like I needed to be, we were pretty comfortable. And so when I had an opportunity to walk away from it, again, it was solely about basketball. And I'm one of those people that, you know, like I don't necessarily. put money on top of over my feelings or what I know will make me most content. And so that was a part of the decision. And in terms of my family, our lifestyle didn't change. It didn't change at all. For sure.

So what does it like to go on the Spurs, right? And it seemed like the Warriors have, the team the Warriors have, and they're coming off a chip, but they have this historic season and they are the, ones that are going to the finals when you're like are you is there a level like what the fuck you know what i mean no no because it's still basketball so okay you know you know the referees fucked it up i'm a beat it's the only time only place i ever blame the referee they always do bro okay all right guys okay all right all right now the NBA should have stepped in somebody should have stepped in like the play that the play that i think it was um deion but not deion um um deion waiters made

against Manu. He literally, it's a technical foul. So this is a semifinals O KC against you guys. We got that series, right? I think we're getting ready to, we might be getting ready to go up 2-0 at home. If you guys win, you'd play the Warriors in the conference finals if you guys win that. And that's, that again,

you've got to leave it to basketball, but like that crazy-ass play, elbows, Manu in the chest, from out of bounds, you know what I mean? Some wild shit that went on. There was a no-call. We lose the game on that. The wildest like literally I wanted to want to snatch one of them dudes up

because you got to make a play you got to make a call with all the reviewing the stuff you can do you got to make a call right so no call is made we lose that series to KD and Rust which was a tough you know tough people to swallow

but it's basketball and I got in trouble for this Logan right when I was with the Warriors but on the bus right Bob hit me and he was like yo man look

You know, we love you to come. It was like that night of the game. They were like, we don't know what you're going to do, but, you know, we think you could, you know, you can help. Bob hit you, the, Bob already hit you the night y'all lost? Yeah. It's okay. See?

Bob Myers is Warriors GM. Okay. And I remember when I was, Bob was like, why the fuck would you tell people that? Because I remember I slipped up and said in an interview when I got the Golden State. Got it. You know, because it's like, but I'm retired now. Yeah. Shit happens.

Right. But that night, so I was like, okay. And then, you know, Steph, I kind of, I admire Step from afar. I spoke to Draymond. There's already a, you know, a Clay fan because I'm just a fan of basketball. So then I had no idea they were going to go after Katie, right? Because they hadn't even played the series yet. But then maybe, you know, it was maybe midway through that whole period.

Katie hit me. It was like, hey, man, look, you know, let's just, let's go. Say the text. Say the text, D. West. Say the text. Because it's hell of funny. It was like, hey, let's, let's say something like, let's go rock out or some shit. Like, let's go.

It's like, it's rock out West, man. Then let's go rock out, West. Let's go do some shit. Like, I'm like, all right, bro, fine. Whatever. He's hell of funny. Yeah. It was just like, hey, yo, man, come rock out with me, man.

Let's go, let's go win, man. I was like, I, and so I got him. So we went, had a good run with the Warriors. man. Talk about that first season, D. West. Like, you guys won 67 games,

but honestly, if you guys tried more and they're in a regular season and KD stays healthy, I feel like you guys could have, you guys were better than that 73 win team. Where do you,

how good was that team in your eyes? I think it's one of the best of all time. But what do you think about that 16, 17 team that you were on? Yeah. Katie's first year. Yeah, the energy was crazy in there because,

um, They didn't win. And so there was like, you know, Steph and Clay had this chip on their shoulder. You know, Draymond was was, was, was, was, was edgy. But, you know, he was adjusting to me. And, you know, he was like, you know, I'll never get. He was like, he would stare.

He would look at me sometimes. I'd be like, man, just say it, motherfucker. Like, what you want to ask? You know what I'm saying? Because he'd be trying to, you know, Dre is one of these guy. He's trying to read people. And he was used to understanding everybody.

And all of a sudden you got, you know, Javelle, myself and Zaza. It's a hell of a locker room. Yeah, it was a different space. And so, you know, that first year, like I said, we were just on a mission. Like, you know, I was, you know, I was like, man, fuck it. I got to do whatever we got to do, not losing this year. Like, you know, coming off that year in San Antonio, which was, again, fun, learning experience, but we didn't get to the top.

So everybody was just locked in, man. There was absolutely no games being played. I want to. Y'all went 16 and one. Hold on. Hold on, hold on, Roger. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Now, hold on.

I want to ask this question before you go. I want to go, man. What's up? What's up? What's up? What's up? Go ahead. Now, Mom.

Listen, you talked, I'm interested in this genuinely, because you talked about being as big as you could be in Indiana, right? And then going to the Spurs, you're playing two bigs also, right? Like, I mean, they're going through Mono. and TD and Tony Parker and those dudes, but you're still big. And now you're on a team that kind of revolutionized the way it's played. Like they're the one that are, there are other teams that were doing it, but they get the shine for it.

How hard was that? How difficult was that for you and your game? Like how long did it take for you to acclimate to that style? Yeah. So, you know, I'd gone through, you know, I'd started, you know, shedding weight when I was in San Antonio, you know, that year after my last year in Indy and then coming down through the summer, realizing because even, you know, you know, Pop was talking about, you know, not having to be as heavy as I was. So I adjusted to that. And then when I got to the Warriors, you know, Steve was like,

you know, you're going to play, we're going to play small, you'll be the five. There'll be some occasions where I have, you know, I think we played Memphis and some of the bigger teams that was still trying to play big. He'd have me at the four sometimes. But it's like mostly, you know, we want you to anchor the second unit, you know, at the five. And, you know, it was an adjustment because my whole career, I was used to, you know, playing fours

and matching up against, you know, Dirk and Blake and guys like that. So then all of a sudden you shift them down the position. And then having to adjust to being like, you know, the main big on the floor, you know, was an adjustment. But the style of play, you know, was so wide open. So free-flowing, I was able to really work on and bring out, you know, my ability to pass the ball and move it from that elbow area and make plays from that elbow area. It worked out. You know, it was a good situation.

And then, you know, just having the basketball smarts, you know, from 1 through 5, we had a very, very smart basketball team. Everybody knew how to play. Everybody knew how to move without the ball. Everybody knew how to make plays with the ball in their hands if they had to. but it was just a very, very talented group. Go ahead, Logan, damn it. Okay. All right, I'm going to need you to be real with me, D.S.

On the 2017 playoffs, y'all go 16 and 1. And the one loss you guys have is in Cleveland. Is it because you guys wanted to celebrate the title in Oakland? Or was it because you guys were like, why did y'all fumble on game three of the finals? Like, it was right there. Y'all was going to, y'all were going to win. Yeah.

I don't know. I mean, I honestly don't even know. I think it was just like, I think it was a combination of, you know, the NBA wanting another game, the referees, the referees kind of saying, you know,

you motherfuckers ain't going to just sweep the shit, you know. And it was one of those games where I felt like, I remember saying to somebody like, yo, I feel like they want Steph or JD to score like 50 in this game

for us to win. Like, one of them had to do something stupid like that, you know, for them to, just say, okay, NBA season is going to be over like this. Yeah. What was it? So the title, you guys won the title to first year.

The next year is my first year on the beat, right? 17, 18. And I remember it wasn't the same as the team that I watched from afar in terms of mindset. You guys were, sometimes you, y'all would win some games. And then there was other nights where you guys just didn't give a fuck. Like, there was sometimes like that. what was the difference in that year? You guys always alluded to it the 17-18 year.

There was just some, you guys won the chip, obviously. Right. But there was some underlying stuff that you guys would allude to. What was going on during that season where it wasn't the same as the first year for you? You know, I just think it's hard when you're dealing with those super talented guys. Like ego is a part of this thing. So it's like, who we talk about? Who I'm talking about right now?

My bad. People don't. We're talking about, hey, God damn. People don't understand that, right? Like ego. Like, who's egos? Who's ego? Say their name.

It's a big deal, man. But it's everybody, right? You got literally five Hall of Fame guys on the damn same team. Like, you got, you know, you got guys that are just, You know, at one point, we're the guy on their team. You've got guys that are, you know, Steph was taking a, like, Steph, you know, there were nights, man, where I would have to tell him that first year, like, yo, man, fuck these guys, Joe, you got to go. Like, he was trying so hard to, like, make everybody comfortable.

And he knew Clay, you know, Clay wants to score, shoot the ball. That's who Clay Thompson is. And then, you know, he knew that, you know, he knows that, you know, Dre likes to have the ball in his hand. so Drake can make plays. And then, like, you know, Katie needs his time to get. So Steph was the one making the most sacrifice. And I'm like, yo, the fuck you're doing? Like, you got to do what you do, man.

And I would have to tell, I would say that to him some nights. And he looked at me, because I don't think anybody would tell him, like, yo, you're tripping, man. Like, nah, you can't pass that one, dog. You know, so the next year, you know, you got to balance that out every year. Almost, you know, because it just doesn't automatically set it so. You know, you got guys looking at, you know, what's looming, what the future possibly could be. You know, you got different, different, again, egos, different people wanting to play different roles. New bench guys, young guys coming in.

You got to balance it all out. And the talent is only so much, you know, and, you know, You know, again, we were able to win it, but, you know, winning it and trying to get that energy, everybody's a year older. You know, it was a bit tougher, but again, we still had enough. Like, we weren't, we weren't dead. And then obviously some nights when, you know, you're going to places and, you know, everybody's giving you their absolute best at every position, you know, it's just tough some nights. Yeah, you become the hunted. Hey, is that window closed in Golden State?

Can they, I mean, when Clay comes back, if he's... Well, man, listen, we see that, you know, with sports science, the Achilles injury is not, it's not a death sentence anymore. It's not a death sentence. You know, if Clay, you know, the biggest keeper of him is the big, right? They got to have, you know, Loon's been playing well, but, you know, Loon's got to stay healthy. It's a big fella.

If Wiseman can get a sense of how he needs to play, You know, be a presence. I think they can make the playoffs this year. Clay, getting back in the mix next year. I think they got to go for it next year if they're going to do it again. When you were looking on the television into the year after you left after you retired, and you see Jermond and Kevin going at it on the sidelines, because I know the first thing I think of is like,

how would this have been different if D. West was in the locker room? How do you feel Okay, so tell me what you would have What the difference would have been If you see them on the sidelines Arguing and it's getting a little oomph And then after the game What are you doing if you're in that

In that in that huddle? And then how did it feel to see it on TV Unfold when knowing that it wouldn't have I was mad when I saw it on TV I mean I got on the phone with everybody after that. I'm like, yo, what's up, man?

Like, because I wouldn't have let it get to that point. Like, all that rar and shit on the bench wouldn't have, like, none of that. You know, it had been one or two words and then break, you know, I'm not going to. And you got to feel the building up. Yeah. But, you know, you got to, you know, you got to step in, you know, and. Did you sense that building up already? Did you sense that that animosity between both sides building up beforehand?

I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't, not while I was there. I think it came, you know, and KD. has some, you know, he has some stuff to do with it because, you know, I think it was all about whether or not he was going to stay and, you know, the media is his pepper and that question all year

and had been doing it a lot early on. So, you know, it became an issue that shouldn't have become an issue. And those guys should have, you know, somebody should have stepped in. You know, again, it's one of those things where that doesn't just happen. That's heating up.

there are different points where you see it happening. And it was unfortunate because it really marred their season. And it was hard for them to get, even though they made a run at it, right, got back to the finals. We all thought they could do it. But again, this thing is a game of inches. And, you know, health, obviously. But then, you know, just the energy, you know,

between them wasn't enough to get over the top. So it hasn't happened if David was in the locker room. No, because he's right, though. That builds up, dog. We saw it come to a head, but that's behind the scene. Somebody's got to be in that locker room, like, dead in those situations as they pop up, you know? Right. Voice of reason.

That's one of those things I said about Brooklyn, Logan. Like when we talked about them earlier, who's going to be that guy in their locker room when you have those type of personalities that are combustible, you know, and could go off? They've been good. It's been clean so far. But if that starts to happen, somebody's got to be in there, like, as that vet, that good voice of reason, man. Who's your pick to win it this year, D. West? The Lakers. No concerns right now about AD and what they look like without him?

No, I mean, I think he'll get healthy. He'll get healthy. Does it matter if he, is it even matter if he's like, just take it, in my opinion, just take his time. As long as they have a secure postseason berth, I think that they'll be the favorites anyway, if he's healthy. Yeah, if they, if he's healthy and may get, you know, again, as long as they're able to keep the ship afloat and don't sink too far.

And then if he's able to close the last, I don't know how many games they have left, but if he's able to play the last, you know, 20, 24 games or so, you know, basically get a preseason in and then a, you know, good run at it. I think they, I think they repeat. I just don't think that at their best and anyone else's best, I just think they're too much to handle. I was looking, you are on the board for a league, the pro-college league, the West, where you, it's a league where you are paying collegiate athletes. Talk about that initiative and also in that league. And talk about how it would have been, my question is,

how would it been for you if you would have had this league when you were in college? Right. Yeah. So, yeah, the professional collegiate league, I mean, it's real simple, man. It's like, you know, NCAA is a billion dollar business. And, you know, everyone can feed their families and feed themselves off of that business, but to players. And, you know, I just think that there's something intrinsically wrong with that.

and that we're working to create a system or a model that challenges that. It's just that simple. And, you know, players, you know, you've seen guys sit out college. College basketball is down a little bit here. This year, the Blue Bloods are down because, you know, a few of those guys are in the G with the G League ignite. A few other guys are just sitting out because guys don't want to spend a year trying to adjust and adapt to a system that isn't necessarily going to prepare them the best for that next step.

So, you know, we're just working in that vein. We believe that it's the right thing to do. It's a grind that, you know, we're going to stay at. And we feel like it's the best, in the best interest of the players and these players' families that right now are locked out of the financial benefits that everyone else involved can reap the benefits from. So for me, you know, when I was coming out of school, you know, this would have been perfect for me.

So I had to roll the dice. So, you know, a lot of people may not know this about me, but I had to, I failed my senior year of high school because I wasn't eligible, you know, for a scholarship right out of high school. I had junior college was an option. But everybody thought, or at least my family thought, and my high school coach thought it was in my best interest to fail as a senior and then redo my senior year in military school.

So I just, you know, all of my chips, all my eggs were in the basket when it came to when it came to basketball. So I go to Hargrave and I get eligible. But if the PCL is around, if I have an opportunity to go right from high school into a league where I'm not saying I was good enough for it. That's the other thing. You have to, you know, I may not have been good enough to get college compensation. But the league would have been an option because, you know, we don't. don't necessarily confine players to the NCAA standards of educational academics. So we want to be able to meet guys where they are. We want to be able to offer them online programs, offer the

vocational programs and other type of educational opportunities that fit their need, media training and things like that. That will help them and benefit them in life, but then also as they attempt to professionalize themselves to the game of basketball. Have there been any position like that you guys have met any pushback anybody oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah you know um you know we're always um you know being asked and challenged on the validity of pan athletes um you know we know we know obviously um the ntoua isn't too fond of us which is okay um but we think you know that the system that they have in places wrong and you know we don't believe that that athletes should be exploited in in 2021 particularly when you know you have you have to have you had

TV contracts and networks and sponsorship deals and million-dollar salaries and billion-dollar, you know, bottom lines and the players of the guys left out. Word. Word. Well, go check that out. The Pro College League, the PCL. David West is heavily involved in that. All right, before we get out of here, let's get to Real One of the Week, a segment we like to do every week with

with our guest where we shout out an entity, a player, a person that just won the week that week. So I'm going to go first. I'll go to D.Raja and then we'll go to D. West. Mine is Naomi Osaka, who became the seventh active player male or female to have four Grand Slam titles, the third player in the open era, male or female, to win their first four major finals. And she beat Serena, man. She just, she just, she won't rerew, Serena. Yeah, she won't reread.

Yeah, so my row in a week, Naomi Osaka. Roger, who is your real one of the week? All right, man, it's going to be tough to beat that because she was a true real run. But I'm going to go with an organization. I'm going to go with the Utah Jazz and just their team on the court, what they continue to do, 26 and 6, 9 and 1 in their last 10. Yeah, the Lakers were underhanded last night, but that's not my job is not to be worrying about what you put out on the other side of the court for me.

My job is to go out there and bust your ass. And they did that last night. And they continue to just double down on there for real. And they do not want to be seen in the playoffs. So I'm going to go with the Utah Jazz is my real ones of the week. D. West, real one of the week. Hmm, real. I mean, I'm thinking, I know you told me to get my thoughts together.

No question. All right, I'll do something maybe personal. So I was, there's a man named Dudley Flood, Mr. Dudley Flood. I was honored with or I was honored to hear him speak yesterday on a Zoom, but he was talking about servant leadership. And the way he defined it was very powerful for me. And he was saying, you know, one of the things I took away was that, you know, when you're a servant of the people, when you're doing work for others,

you don't ever have time, but you make time. And so I thought that was really powerful. And he really, you know, he really dropped some jewels yesterday that have sort of resonated with me. So, you know, he said, again, the last thing he said was a test of your leadership. And a willing leader understands that they may never get the credit that they deserve. So shout out to Mr. Dudley Flood for the gyms. Real bars. Real bars.

Thanks for making time for us, bro. Yeah, thank you, Dee West, for making time. You can check out all our other shows in the Ringer NBA show feed. The Answer, group Chad Ringer University every other Wednesday. Mismatch with KOC and Verno, R2C2 with who, Raja Billo. Balletho legend. You already know C-C-Sabathia. And you can follow the Ringer NBA show on Spotify.

You can also subscribe on Apple or everywhere else you get podcasts. We will see you guys on Monday. Thank you, David West.