The Ringer NBA Show - Dead or Alive: Nuggets Still Kicking, Bucks Barely Twitching, Raptors and Lakers Fight for Their Lives | The Mismatch

Episode Date: September 8, 2020

Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor get into all the conference semifinal matchups about halfway through the round, starting with a surprisingly competitive Nuggets-Clippers series (2:43). They then move on to the basically over Bucks-Heat series (21:09), the back-and-forth Raptors-Celtics series (32:29), and the early days of the tied-up Rockets-Lakers series (42:42). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Heineken. Heineken original logger is made with pure malt and their famous A-East, which makes Heineken an all-season all-the-time kind of beer. While watching the NBA playoffs on Monday night, I had my fantasy draft. First one in five years with my friends. I killed it in the draft, and I celebrated my draft with a crisp, refreshing Heineken. Pick up a pack or have it delivered today and drink responsibly. The Ringer NBA show is also brought to you by Frikeshers.

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I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Concer, Kevin O'Champertyland. Kevin O'Brien. Berna! What's going on today? Oh, and we've got a new friend. Hopefully we keep her forever. Sasha Ashall is our new producer after we have been dumped more times than any podcast in the history of podcast. We have been dumped.

Sasha, tell us you won't leave us. I won't leave. I promise. All right. That's an ashall promise. Do you believe her, Kevin? I mean, we've been told this before. I've been scarred by past producers, so no, I don't believe, Sasha.

But I'm excited to have Sasha on the ringer staff now. I first met her when she was at the athletic, super talented, knows basketball, loves good food. We're excited to have you, Sasha. All right. Kev, what have you been most shocked by in terms of what has taken place in the NBA playoffs since we last spoke? So we talked on Thursday night.

And now we have had a bunch of games in between time. What has shocked you the most? All right. Let me just refresh our minds here. We recorded Thursday night. That was when Boston was up to 1. The O.J. Anobie shot. Clippers went up 1.0.

That night, if I remember correctly, We had said like Denver, L.A., super not that interesting at all. So it's between that or, you know, Miami going up 3-0 over the bucks. And then falling down, now it's 3-1 entering Tuesday nights games. But for me, it really is Denver being super competitive with the Clippers. And we saw last night they entered the fourth quarter with a lead over L.A. Granted, it was just a small lead. they did lead by seven with eight minutes and 15 seconds left to go in the game.

They lost. But Denver being as competitive as they are with the clippers and the clippers continuing to be weird, having these really bad quarters. That's been most shocking to me more than anything else. I felt like last night, and I don't know if you feel the same way, I felt like the clippers were biting their time, screwing around, like not locked in. And I'm not trying to take anything.

from Denver. I'm not. I'm saying this is someone who's watched the Clippers a lot. They can be absolutely devastating when they lock in defensively, but they just don't. For a long stretches of time, you can see them. It is a different team when they decide we are going to clamp down. And I, you know, last night I thought at the very end of the game, this is still, I mean, it's nip-tuck coming down to the wire. And there were two plays that I thought kind signified the difference between the two teams. And again, I am impressed with Denver. I don't know if I thought they'd get swept,

but certainly last night they were in that game for a long time. That was competition. And the Clippers, look, when you play like that, you can get caught. You can really get caught because now all of a sudden, you've taken your foot off the gas. You think you can turn it up when it matters most, last five minutes of the game.

but there are two particular plays. And one of them is it's a, you know, it's a two possession game, I believe, at the time. And Lou Williams gets the ball. He, you know, he's kind of going downhill, but he beats a guy off the dribble. He gets straight to the rim and he lays it over the cup, right? And there's a timeout. Now they go to the sideline. And this is like two minutes left.

You are in a playoff game. It is the absolute, like this is. We have to get a stop every possession. We have to get a stop if we're going to be able to get back in this game, if we're going to be able to win this game. And that's what is allowed to happen. Nobody's even meeting him at the rim. And now compare that to Jamal Murray going to the basket.

And Kawhi Leonard met him at the rim. Right? Like that's what playoff basketball is. That's what winning basketball is. It is the difference between a guy meeting you at the rim and not when you have to. get a stop every single possession. And again, they were in it until the very end, but I did feel like the, the clippers

turned up. You know, it's amazing, you know, rewatching this morning. In that fourth quarter, Kauai and Paul George were combined one of nine for 10 points. And for some reason, just didn't feel like it last night. Well, that's because Kauai was running everything. Yes. And Kauai did have two assists. including some, you know, secondary assist in that fourth quarter as well.

He was great. He had a perfect pass to Harold on the roll, to Zubots on the role, to get them opportunities. I believe Harold went to the line on his. But, you know, their greatest contributions, of course, and that throughout that entire game were in the defensive end of the floor. Both George and Patrick Beverly completely gave issues to Jamal Murray, especially on the ball. With that fourth quarter by Denver, I feel like it was missed opportunities.

It's not that they made wrong plays. You can point at Yokic kicking the ball out to Jeremy Grant on three separate occasions. Two of them, Grant took a corner three. One of them, Grant drove and took a floater. Grant shot 39% from three the last two seasons. He's been really good from behind the arc. You can't fault Yokic for some of the passes that he made, though I will say, I do wish on one of those in which Yokic received the ball on the short roll and kicked out to Grant.

He had attacked. I think there was a lane for an easy layup there. or possibly at least a drawn foul. Maybe it turns into an end one. Who knows? But for Denver to lose that game with Kauai being, you know, only one of seven in the fourth quarter, with George only being one of two, only two shot attempts throughout the entire fourth quarter, it does feel like a missed opportunity for Denver to go up in the series.

Just like in a different type of ending, it was a missed opportunity for Boston not to go up 3-0 over Toronto because of the OG game. winner. Different type of scenario here. There's no game winning theatrics. But Denver did miss an opportunity last night to close that out. Well, and I'll tell you this, I was watching last night, and I was thinking back to the series before, which was an epic series against Utah. We saw, we only saw Gary Harris at the very end, and he was lauded for the job that he did. He got the, he made the play that really won them the series for all, you know, you know, where they, they ended up blowing a layup, Connolly got a three, but he's the one that stopped Donovan Mitchell from getting a shot off.

And he does add a different element to that team defensively because while it used to be just an absolute turnstile getting to the basket, you know, that is one of the things when you've got Yokic on that back line, it exposes him a lot more if you can't stop anybody from driving. and you saw them throwing a target on Michael Porter, Jr., you saw them throwing a target on different guys. Gary Harris, you can't throw a target on him. And he does stop that from happening. And you go back in time and you wonder, like, does Donovan Mitchell scored 50? If Gary Harris is in that series, maybe not. I mean, he still was absolutely incredible in the series and certainly in the second half of that game.

But he does add a different element to that team. They certainly look better and they are certainly more formidable defensively when they've got Harris in the game. I feel like his impact is very, very big and it's part of the reason they were able to be more competitive. Sure. And one other guy that would help there with, you know, that backline help, the room protection is Paul Millsap. But Paul Millsap looks toast. He does not look like the Millsap that I remember for years since he was a young player with the jazz. I'm talking way back.

never mind his prime years with the hawks he's not the same guy anymore and for you know michael malone it's a difficult choice here to you know pull a trusted veteran um from the rotation but last night in that fourth quarter five minutes three files those files coming on situations where maybe he was a little late with the help or just not impactful with his help defense i think he was the one who filed harrel on that role that I mentioned earlier. I do wonder if maybe one of the calls here for Denver to make is to trim his minutes a bit more and play Grant more, play basically everybody else more, including Michael Porter. Despite Porter being a guy who hurts you on defense, what he brings on offense to,

I think at this point does outweigh the losses on the defensive end of the floor. And that's a difficult balance for Malone to have to deal with. because he goes from one play, you know, looking like extraordinary talent to the next play, looking like, you know, a dunce. It's just the way it is. I mean, that's the case of a lot of rookies. You take the good with the bad.

But for the nuggets here, for them to be, you know, in this, you know, they're down two to one, but very competitive in this game three. Do you feel like they have a shot to actually pull out an upset in this series? If things click right for them. I would put it at 0% chance. Zero percent. Zero.

No, zero. No, they're not winning. They're not winning. I mean, does Kauai have something catastrophic happen to him? I mean, that's the only way. That's the only way. That Klipper's team screwed around with them last night and then turned it up when they needed to. You know, and when they decided.

But Kauai still only went one for seven in the four. quarter. Their defense is not bad on Kauai. They've done a good job. No, no, no. I'm just talking about the Clippers when they decided we're turning this thing up. Denver couldn't score. They couldn't score, Kevin. They're like two field goals. The Clippers have proven to be a team that fluctuates between on and off all the time. Maybe sometimes it is their choice to turn it on, but I don't think they choose to turn it off. It just happens. And that's where teams like Denver are taking advantage. That's where next round Lakers or Rockets could take advantage of the clippers unless they permanently, you know,

glue the on button to on, that's what they got to do because they always fall out of it. They always fall out of it. This is a trend the whole freaking year. Here's what I would tell you. I think this is my opinion. I've been around a lot of veteran teams and it's a hard mindset. Sometimes these veteran teams, they know they can turn it on when they want to turn it on. Sometimes they get burned by doing it.

But I do think that what you will find is when we get to the next round, whether it is Clippers Lakers or whether it is Clippers Houston, and I'm leaving that open ended for right now. But either one of those, I don't think you are going to see these massive lulls from the Clippers. Now, maybe that's, you know, hoping against hope. But I would just say my experience is that they know they can. and when they don't, you know, they know they can against Denver. I think they know they can't against Houston or against the Lakers. And that's just my opinion. Like, I mean, again, they almost got burned doing it last night.

And they could get burned doing it. But I think anybody that is objective about this watches that game last night and said, that is a team that noticeably their effort on the defensive end got cranked up dramatically the last six minutes of that game. And when they do, they're devastating. I mean, and I've seen them. Look, I've seen them this year where they've just come out and just played like, you know, not locked in at all.

Doc Rivers was bitching about it during the game last night. He was like, neither of these teams are listening to their coach. You know, there's no defense, right? But it's like they, when they decide to, they've got a different gear defensively. And so that's why I think, right? Knowing that they have that in their back pocket, I don't foresee a circumstance where they're going to get down enough times in this series. The other thing is they've gone up to one, Kev.

When you say, do you think they can do it? You're asking me, do I believe that Denver can beat the clippers three out of four times? Come on. Like, no. Zero percent J. Three out of four? It's not, you don't need to win those three games in one. night though. It's a one game at a time.

But they do need to win three of four matches. They do. It's one game at a time though. And ultimately, if you pull out that game for who really knows in the final three games, I'd pick the Clippers to win the series as well. So I'm with you. I think the Clippers are going to win the series. I thought it after before the series. After game one, after game two, I still think it now. But Denver has shown to be a more formidable opponent than I expected. Not only that, with the Clippers, you did mention they turn it up on defense. but like I said, there were missed opportunities for Denver. With Murray, yeah, he was locked up on the ball,

but they got him some shots off of screens early in that quarter that were open looks. Jeremy Grant missed those threes that he normally might make wide open corner three attempts. It's not like they were completely suffocated throughout the entire fourth quarter. They got looks that they missed. And that's like a very basic way of breaking down the game. It's a make or miss league. but a lot of the time it's true. It's the truth. And with Denver, that's where I'm curious to see what type of minor tweaks, either to the rotation, to the minutes distribution, or to the play calling, does Bologna make entering game four? Because they do get to maximize whatever they can in order to accomplish that steep challenge you're talking about of winning the next three out of four. And one lineup, I would like to see the nuggets use more of. And this is what I alluded to earlier with playing Millsap less. is we've only seen six minutes of a lineup with Yokic, Murray, Grant, Harris, and Porter.

Only six minutes through two games throughout the entire postseason so far. That's a lineup. I'd be really curious to see Denver utilize a bit more because you get Yokch at the five. You still get your super switchable defender with Grant. You got Harris out there as well. And then Murray and Porter can handle a lot of the scoring for you alongside Yokch. That feels like a lineup that balances defense with a potent offense to me. And it's only played six minutes.

I'd like to see it. If your perimeter defenders played lights out, because that is a disaster at the rim with Porter and Yokic. And you're throwing, and you know they, look, they already like to throw Porter in every single screen. You put him at the, you know what I mean? You put him there with a lot of minutes at the four. He's got a target on his back.

And if they turn the corner, it's not like they've got another rim protector there. It's Yokic, you know? And so that's the problem. It would be a challenge. Every lineup, every lineup has a whole for Denver. I mean, there's nothing that's a perfect balance. Your defense first lineups are sometimes lack enough potency on offense and vice versa.

But that's one lineup, though, like they said, only has played six minutes. I just like to see it a little bit more just to see how it actually works. I think on that series, we have both, we both agree that it is the Clippers that will come out of it, but this is not a bloodbath. This is competitive. And Denver certainly deserves respect for the effort that they are putting out there. You know, they might just be one guy away. Honestly, they might be one guy away from being able to, you know, because if they got one

other wing that was pretty dynamite, even another guard that was pretty dynamite offensively, then, and maybe Porter will become that in time. I'll tell you this. His dunk last night was a damn all-timer. I mean, everything about that, I mean, God, that was just outrageous. So good, man. My God. I mean, geez, Louise.

And Jamal Murray went for his moment like that and got blocked by Kauai's middle finger. Yeah, I know. With Jamal Murray, I mean, you mentioned like needing more. They have it already on their roster. It's just young. No, no, no. I'm saying one more guy. Yeah.

I mean, but I think that guy's already on their roster. Oh, you do. With Jamal Murray, the video we made, last week at the restart, we basically looked at like how Mitchell and Murray went off in the series. And with Murray and Mitchell for that matter, but especially with Murray, I noted just how one of the causes of his inconsistencies, you know, we talked about this weeks ago, he goes from scoring 41 game to 14 the next game. We've seen that again in this series. One of the causes of that is the fact he doesn't have drawing falls as a way to consistently get points. Some guys,

you know, they can shoot the lights out, they go off. Some guys, they get a bunch of open opportunities at the rim they go off. But the consistent 25 point per game scores are people who draw files on drives to the rim and get to the free throw line, free points. Jamal Murray doesn't have that yet in his game. Only two free throw attempts last night. I'm sure Nuggets fans would argue there could have been more. But with Jamal Murray, he has always been a guy who tries to avoid contact and opts for

craft around the rim rather than contact. And if that's something that he can develop in his game moving forward and become a guy who's taken, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8, you know, plus free throws per game, keep moving up each year, that would be a huge benefit for Denver's offense because you're not reliant on him needing a perimeter jumper to get buckets if he's a guy that can drive to the rim and draw contact, finish through contact, or at least get a shot off and get to the free throw line. That's what they're missing right now. And whether it's from Murray or from Porter over time, they need one of those guys or both of those guys to develop that in their game. So there's consistency. Yeah, it'd also be nice if they had Barton available. They mentioned that, you know, it was totally off the table, but it's not now totally off the table. But it would be nice because, I mean, he's a veteran guy plays with crazy energy.

And honestly, in terms of when we talk about wing deficiency, there are the nights where Will Barton can get you 20-something points. you know and right now you know it'd be nice to have him be alleviated you know it's nice when jeremy grant knocks you down five six threes you know but you're not counting on that every single night right and that's just another you know really good wing player that they are without in this series who could be very very useful especially against the clippers who are so dynamic at the wings. Let's move on to the other series. So while we agree on that one, the other ones, I would say the only other one that we agree on is the bucks are dead. Like, I know they won that game in overtime. Without Giannis. Good Middleton moment for sure. Good Middleton moment for sure.

He outdoes Tyler Hero of all people, right? Do you know what's funny? I don't know if you remember this, but about three. weeks ago when that series was going on. And we were talking about how, you know, Murray and, uh, and Mitchell were, we're scoring like 50 points in these games. And it was like, it would be like looking up and in, you know, three or four years, Tyler Hero scored 50 points. And there was a moment as I'm watching that overtime.

I'm like, you know, like, couldn't you see him in, like hitting 10 or 11 threes in a game one day? Like, I don't think. it's totally out of the question. He has no idea. No, absolutely none. 20 years old in the playoffs, and he's shooting biggest shots of the game shots, under duress, no less. But the bucks are really up against it now, especially as Janus went down in that last game. So. And questionable, questionable today for game five. At best hobbled, you know. And we said, once they went up 3-0, it's like, can they beat that team four times in a row?

Actually, I think it was, we're talking about beating them. Could they beat them four out of the next five after they'd gone up to O? And I was like, there's no way. They're not beating that team four out of five times. And so I think that's the only other one. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I mean, it's fair to say it's so unlikely that we agree there. Because the other two are done.

The other two are up in the air. But let me just say this. like was there let's say Milwaukee wins today and it's three to two does that change your feelings at all like suddenly three two they get the two out of the way maybe yonis comes back he's 100 percent maybe middleton they're finally playing their guys over 40 minutes maybe middleton they're feeding the ball getting him 20 plus shots per game like they had to do in that game for to avoid the suite. That doesn't change anything. Middleton goes off again. Yannas is back, looks like himself. I mean, we've seen three O comes back, comebacks in sports before. It wouldn't,

it would be the first time in the NBA, and it's going to happen eventually, hopefully it happens in our lifetimes. It would be remarkable to watch. It's, there's nothing like it. Um, I mean, you can never say never. That's all I'll say. Um, but if I'm the bucks, you got to get, you got to get Middleton 20 plus shots. You just got to use him as your shot creator. He's not the perfect guy. He's not the perfect solution because he doesn't have the playmaking to him, but he's good enough as a playmaker.

He's good enough as a score. He's somebody that can get hot and create shots for you. You want him creating shots at the end of the clock, not Eric Bledsoe. You want him creating those opportunities for himself and for others. And if Yonnas can play, you need Yonis to play, I think, in a full game. Miami going into this game, you know,

having seen the Bucks without. Janus. And by the way, Yonis kept them in that game in the first quarter. The Bucks had nothing going early in the game. Yannis kept them in it, you know, with 19 points and 11 minutes.

He was fantastic before he got hurt. You can never say never when you have an all-timer, a guy on an all-time trajectory like Janus. But, yeah, the heat are going to win the series. It's just, it's just so.

It's a matter of time. It's just so unlikely that a team as good as the heat, doesn't win one more in the series with three more to play. It's just it's improbable. I don't think anything that's happened in that series is a fluke. I really don't.

No, I don't either. I think they're a intensely bad matchup for that team. We talked about this for months, man. We've been on the heat as a team that could upset their way to the East Finals or the finals. And we've talked about, you know,

how the Bucks have a challenging road ahead. And no, I don't think it's a fluke, but I will also add this. I feel like I did underrate Miami a little bit because we didn't get to see Crowder and Iguada fully develop within that system. And those guys have been highly impactful in their minutes on the floor. And Crowder, by the way, I don't know if this is a total, you know, fluke hot shooting stretch for him or he's actually gotten the assistance from the Miami Heat shooting coach. But I will say this. I need to look more into it.

Crowder for years. You saw this in Memphis. I saw this in Boston. He had a bad habit of sometimes when he would shoot threes of kicking his legs out wide. He would have these off-balance landings. And one year in Boston,

I looked at his shooting splits when he lands balanced or narrow versus when he lands with a wide stance. And his numbers were significantly better without the wide stance. It threw him off. he had he shot worse than his normal percentages and he shot much better landing balanced or narrow i haven't seen him land wide at all with miami i need to look back at all his shots but i wonder if that was

maybe an adjustment that he coaching staff made with crowder that has turned him into a more consistent three-point shooter because he's never shot better with more consistency than he has with miami and i got to look back at all of his jumpers but that that is my hypothesis of why we're getting better shooting numbers from Jay Crowder. All right. Here would be my hypothesis. Number one, it's all he does now. It's the only thing he does.

Like literally the only... No, literally the only thing he does. He knows where he is to have a career in the NBA. And so the only thing he does, what percentage of his shots are now from three? It's crazy. Just to throw him out there last couple games. First four games of the series.

Game one, three. of eight, seven of those shots for three-pointers. I told you. Game two, five of 13, 12 of those shots with three-pointers. Game three, five of 11, all 11 of those shots were three-pointers. Game four, six of 12, all 12 of those shots were three-points. So there's my first. My first hypothesis is it's the only thing he does, literally the only thing he does

is shoot threes. No, and my second part is Jay's in a contract here. It's amazing how some guys start knocking down shots when it's contract to your time. I think you probably, I think you take better shots, and I think you need that percentage looking as good as you can for when the agent goes in and says, here's how he compares to other guys that played the same position. And just for what it's worth, 66 of 74 of his shots in the playoffs have been three pointers. 66 of 74. Hey, Kevin, I don't want to, I don't want to crap on your, under point there. No, no O'Dell Beckham pun.

But I will say, I don't know if it's about how his feet land. I don't know if it's about how his feet land. It could be. From what I understand, their shooting coach Rob Fodor, I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing his last name wrong. My understanding is that he is one of the best shooting coaches in the league. And with Crowder, I always, you know, when I used to write first, I think it was when I wrote for Celtics blog. I don't know if it was here at the ringer. I made the case like Crowder can be better

if he starts landing narrow or balanced rather than having a wide landing. Like, you know what's like if you want to visualize it, you know when Steph Curry sometimes hits those amazing jump shots and he lands at this wide stance, hand in the air, you know, the ball goes in for him. It works for Steph Curry because he's Steph Curry.

It doesn't matter what's happening with his lower body. With guys like Jay Crowder, it does. And I mentioned this to you at the trade deadline. prior to. It was the first time I had been around Jay Crowder, you know, daily. I mean,

he is absolutely the kind of guy that you want on your team. He is the guy that raises the level of practice. He is the guy that in the locker room, look, he gets all, he gets so much credit

for the Grizzly started out horribly, like six and 17. I mean, they were like under, It was like 10 games under 500 this year. And he was the guy that was like, look, I've been on a lot of teams. This is a young team. Keep it up. You're going to get it together.

And the development of John Morant, the development of Jaron, the development of Jaron Jackson, Jr., these kind of guys, they would tell you all the time that it's Jay Crowder and Solomon Hill, who also is on that Miami Heat Bench right now. having those kind of great veterans is invaluable for young teams, but now you see him in a team that can really win, and he's valuable to them too. I'll tell you this, whoever gets Jay Crowder in the offseason, there's not a lot of tough guys in the league,

and that guy's tough. And if he can knock down threes at maybe not this rate, but a reasonable rate, somebody's going to get him in free agency, and it's going to help them win. Like, he is a bona fide winner. a winning type player. And so I'm glad he's getting

some accolades and some love for the performance he's having with Miami. Hey, Chris, before we move on, let's hear from today's sponsors. Today's episode of the mismatches brought to you by Heineken. It's time for seasonal bears again.

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Let's flip to the other one, the other Easter Conference Finals, which is the Celtics and the Raptors. Yeah, semifinals, I'm sorry. Which is a very strange series because you end up feeling very bad about, the team that lost the last two games.

You're right? Like that the last game was like, oh man, what the hell's wrong with Jalen Brown? I don't know. Maybe Toronto really did turn up. And, you know,

this is coming off of the, and obviously got the OG monster shot. And so they even up that. That was a, what a pass by Lowry on that. I still can't get over it. But then, but then they turn around and they,

back it up with another performance and it's like hold the phone now. Like maybe they, maybe they were awoken. Maybe Fred Van Vleet walking out of the stadium saying they effed up now. Maybe there's something to that. And then you see yesterday and it's like, okay, this is, this is embarrassing. I mean, the Celtics hold them to 11, 11 friggin' points in the first quarter and they're up by 30 at halftime, or almost 30 at half time. Why was that so non-competitive?

What do you think? Boston's defense number one. They're doing a just absolutely outstanding job of getting back on defense. You know, Toronto had more transition baskets than anybody in the league throughout the season. That is such an important part of them getting opportunities. They use their defense to turn it into offensive opportunities, but the Celtics have not really allowed that to happen. There's always somebody back to stop a transition. opportunity. But in the half court as well, they're doing terrific. You're seeing a Jared

Weiss from the Athletic wrote a great article about this. They're having their help defense come at the elbow rather than from the corners. And Toronto loves to get corner three shooters. They're not getting as many of those open shots. So they're having to tweak the way they do things. So Boston has come in with a really stellar game plan, you know, from a, from a schematic point of view. And you're also seeing great individual performances from some of those defensive of players, whether it's Marcus Smart and his man-to-man defense or off-ball defense or Jason Tatum intercepting passes and deflecting passes off the ball. Daniel Tice playing really rock, solid room protection and being, you know, reliable on a switch as well. Individuals are living up to

what they need to or surpassing what they need to. And the game plan has been stellar as well. And this is where you see with Toronto, as good as they are, they're in this series. It's only 3-2 right now. As good as they are, the series has really shown the current limitations of Pascal Seacom. They need him to have a game or two, you know, to actually win this. Seacum, Nick Nurse has done everything he can to get him going. They're using him in off-ball situations, you know, spot up and cut. They're setting screen actions for him to get him the ball on the move. They're running pick and roll with him. They're having a post-up. And he just hasn't been able to get it going. And with Siakam, I'm sure there's some frustration with what's happening for him. It's harder to go

against some high-end wing defenders than it is, you know, some fours like he was during the season and earlier in the season. With Toronto, I'm not sure what more they can do to get Seacum going. I really think he just needs to have a game where he's just clicking. It just hasn't happened yet for the Raptors. Wow. He goes to like the same spin move every time he's got the ball. Well, and that's what I mean. I mean, I mean, Boss, let's get a couple of variety in there. Well, exactly. And that, and that's where, you know, the limitations are. He's a very, very good player.

I mean, very good. Let's not knock him here too much. But he's become a bit predictable with where he is. And to me, like, if I'm a Raptors fan, I'm feeling good with where the team is. But I'm like, and if I'm past Kelsey Yakum, I'm like, I can still get way better because this can't happen to me again. It just can't happen. They know the spin moves coming.

They know what, they know what, they know what. he's going to try to get to. And he needs to add more variety to his game, just like he was actually said, in order to beat this type of defense in order to create for himself when, you know, everything else isn't working. Well, and the other thing is those guards like the Kyle Lowry when he went off for 30-something points in the Ananoi game. Like, Lowry and Van Bleet, like, those got to be your big production guys, one of those guys,

because Seacum, he's miscast as the guy that's going to be. he's going to get his and then the rest of the guys fill it in. Like they have been an equal opportunity team and they are very deep and they are very good. But I feel like it's got to be, you know, I think that we saw Lowry have the 30 point game earlier this series.

Like Lowry or Van Vleet, those guys, they could get you the 30, right? But it needs to be one of them. It's hard to foresee circumstance where see Occam's like getting you 30 and everybody fills in behind it. And I do think for a good portion of the season, certainly to start the season, he was that guy. You were counting on him getting you 25 to 30 every night almost, right?

Certainly 20 plus every night. And then everybody else could kind of fill in the blanks. Well, that's different against this Boston team. And that's not in the cards. That being said, I still feel like this is going seven games. I feel like this is a chess match. between two great coaches, and this is when it's a very good series, is somebody makes an adjustment that really screws the other one up.

And it doesn't mean that all the games end up being competitive. It means that these coaches make the adjustments, these teams lock in after their attention has gotten, or they fall back on their heels after they've had a little success. and I think that, you know, the flow of this series is that Toronto will have their backs completely up against the wall. It is must win for them. They've got a lot to draw on because they've been in highly competitive situations over and over again. They'll make adjustments that'll make it easier for them.

I always talk about how it's a lot easier to watch the tape when you suck and say, this is what we need to do different, that when you were awesome. Because when you were awesome, it's like, well, geez. Keep doing that, guys. But a good coach will not allow you to do that and be that good at it anymore. And so I'd suspect Nick Nurse won coach of the year for a reason. And he'll have something up his sleeve. And I really, I am hopeful, very hopeful, that that goes seven.

Because I think that could. And I think the Lakers Houston could too. The big adjustment that we're going to have to watch for is what does Nick Nurse do now that Brad Stevens has put Marcus Smart on Kyle Lauer. We didn't see a lot of that through the first three games. I'm sorry, through the first four games. In game five, we saw a lot of smart on Laurie. And that had the effect of putting the ball into Van Bleet's hands rather than Lowry's hands.

And, you know, in the game, we only saw Laurie end up with eight shot of Thames, five assists, only 10 points total in 34 minutes. Van Vleet became the primary creator because he had Kemba on him. How does Nurse respond there? Because you want the ball in Lowry's hands. You want him as the guy who's. creating opportunities for you and creating for himself. Is there something that Nurse rolls out in this game?

Six, that does lead to more of those opportunities. Because I would be shocked if Brad Stevens pulls smart off of Lowry, that was very effective. Yeah, I would say two things. Number one, make sure that you are making him fight through 100 million screens, right? And if he does, he does. The other thing is, I would imagine Lowry will become,

infinitely more aggressive because the best thing you can do if you got Marcus smart on you is get him in foul trouble. Get him too early before it would be time for his rotation and get him out of the game

and get him three before half time. I mean, he is a very aggressive defender. Lowry is also the kind of guy that can get calls. You know, he is a track record. He's been an All-Star a lot of time and he gets a lot of charging calls too. And so the best thing you can do

if you're Kyle Lowry is be as aggressive as possible because otherwise just being an innocent bystander to this and just saying, oh, they put Marcus Smart on me. Oh, well, guess somebody else is going to have to do it. No, I mean, the key is when you've got a great defender on you, you see the trick is to go right at them. I mean, I saw it all the time with, I saw it all the time when I was covering Tony Allen. You see it with other defenders throughout the league. It was Roberson back when the Oklahoma City teams were good. if you got a really guy that's really pumped up and really supposed to be the big time defender that's giving you a problem, the best thing you could do is go right at them and get them out of the game.

Get them a little over-anxious in shutting you down and, you know, get some calls here and there. Take some bumps. Sure. And maybe one way you can do that is by running a bit more high pick and roll with Ibaka or Gasol on the roll. Usually you have those guys pop for three-pointers. Gasol can't find the net. and you know, Ibaka has shot well, but he is a guy who can be effective as a role or two. Maybe that's one thing that you can do, have Lowry in a pick and roll situation with Gasol rolling.

He did have a make or two in that game five. I mean, throughout the series, he's had a couple makes on the roll. He's on a lob thread, obviously. He's groundbound. But I do wonder if maybe that's something Toronto can pull out in this very important, obviously, must-win. in game six to get some offense going and maybe that's the way your counterattack against smart being on Lari because you got to get Lari going in this game. You're not going to win unless Lurie gets going.

The other series that we have to touch on, Kevin, get ready because I'm about to shock you. Shock me, Chris. I'm ready. I'm ready. Here we go. This is a problem for the Lakers. And I'm saying this after day one. Here's the problem.

You got a monster effort out of Anthony Davis with the 34 points, right? He was the best player on the floor in this game. You got up big, big on that Houston team. And they needed every single basket down the stretch to win that game. And they got good efforts out of Rondo, Coosma. I mean, they got a lot of good efforts. out of their guys. And that was the absolute,

I think as abysmal as Westbrook can be. Like, honestly, I know he had like 13 rebounds or something. But that was as bad as he can be. And if he's as bad as he can be and you're sneaking out wins, like, I don't know, man. Like, I mean, if they, if this is the Eric, Eric Gordon, and it's now becoming to the point where I'm thinking, And this kind of feels like this is the air at Gordon they're getting.

It wasn't very good at the very beginning of this. But at the tail end of the last series against Oklahoma City, Gordon was there for it and was really good. And is that third guy that can really, you know, you've been able to depend on. And obviously he was very good the other night, even when Westbrook was terrible. And you've got to assume it's going to come together between those three at the last. some point, they have not punished them. I mean, when you're three games into the series and I haven't seen you punish them for being small, like it, they're not going to punish them for being small. And I kind of look at it like Westbrook was so bad and they still just barely

snuck that thing out. I don't know, man. Like, I do think this is going to be a long series. And I said at the beginning, I thought that, you know, the weakness of those guards is going to be a real problem for LA? I haven't changed my mind, despite the fact that you got the good game out of Rondo and the good game out of some of these other guys. I just, I don't believe that that's going to be replicated over and over again. And I also don't think that Westbrook being that bad is going to be replicated that often. I mean, Westbrook had seven turnovers in that game, second time in the postseason with seven turnovers. You know, you hope that doesn't happen again if you're Houston, of course. Well, and the other thing was Hardin didn't join the game until halftime.

But with Westbrook, though, it's shot only one for seven from three. The Lakers continued to ignore him on defense. I wonder if Dan Tony comes out with a new wrinkle there with Westbrook, getting him towards the rim, using him more as a screen. And we haven't seen a lot of that during the postseason, but they did do it here and there during the season. Lakers probably just switched that screen, but maybe that ends up with a better matchup for Westbrook or for Hardin

in that type of situation. So I understand your point. Like I think this is going to be a tight series. I picked it seven before the playoffs. I was less high on Houston before the series. I'm back in on Houston in the sense that they're going to be really, really competitive here with the Lakers. And it could go six or seven for damn sure.

But the real key is like exactly what you're saying, getting Russell Westbrook going. You've got to maximize who Westbrook is. You know, for all I knock him. him over the years that we've been doing this podcast for all the flaws he has that people hate on him for he's still a really really really good player who provides upside for you and i thought that's what was interesting about the response mike dantonie gave when asked earlier this week about well is there any chance you limit westbrook's minutes and he's like no he's a he's a

great player he's somebody who we need him to to to be himself for us to win and it his point was is that like westbrook is somebody who gives upside to your team when westbrook is on it's special yeah and for houston you're rolling the dice here and maybe you get bad westbrook but if you get great westbrook i mean suddenly you're probably winning that game against the lakers and you're up in the series not down in the series and when i talk to you about the you know not punishing them for being small it's not like they forced tyson chanler on the floor like the houston's just done what they done that's not going to happen I know, I know, but I mean, it was, you know, look, when they can be supersized,

you could think, like, it becomes the, it becomes a scenario where it's like, we miss, we get the rebound, you miss, we get the rebound, and you're really punished for being that small. They've got guys that play a lot bigger, obviously Tucker Covington. But it wasn't even like the big guys for the Lakers were punishing them for being small. It was like they were the ones matching them perimeter-wise, Anthony Davis, Morris, how many threes he have in this game? I mean, like, they just, the percentages that the Lakers shot were high, were high for this game. 44% from 3, 12, 27.

I mean, how many times is that going to be replicated? I don't know. I'm just saying, like, I, I, if the idea was, man, if there's one team that can punish Houston for being small, it's that team, it's, that's not happening. That's not happening. And the only time, you know, I mean, the bad Westbrook the other night. And so I don't know. I feel like the, I feel like the Lakers, you know, they got to have these unbelievable LeBron Davis games.

Like they do. They have to, like, Houston didn't have to have an unbelievable Westbrook game to be in that game. But I feel like they've got to replicate this. They both have to be awesome every night. LeBron and AD in order for that team. By the way, LeBron in that game too really wasn't awesome until the fourth quarter. Right.

When he did take over, it was a fine LeBron game. They're very rarely bad LeBron games, but he didn't become a great game until the fourth quarter when he did take over and really did take control of that team. But you watch them in the moments where he's not in the game, Kevin, and it's like, geez, this thing, this ain't pretty. Yeah, I mean, we're used to that from the whole season. Right. I mean, I don't know.

Do you, do you, I mean, I thought it was interesting that in that game, Lakers and Bealda Zone, which was effective for them. That's not something they do a lot of, but Vogel went with that. I do wonder if maybe we see more of that in game two. It's been fun to see teams playing zone throughout the postseason. The Miami one is really, really good when they go to it. And they haven't really in the postseason either. No, they haven't. They did it more than anybody during the regular season.

That's right. Toronto really flummoxed Boston there for a decent amount of time where you were talking about, which is the truth, you know, they were thinking about everything that they that they were going to be doing. And then they kind of figured out and they were sneaking Jalen Brown into open spots and he got a couple dunks behind Gassal and really making him rotate. But Toronto's was good too. I like it. I do. I, you know, I know they went to it.

But, boy, that Houston team, I don't know, you've got to be so active defensively in that zone and have some really long guys when you're playing against a team that's going to shoot 53s. I mean, because, I mean, they're trying to shoot you out of it. You know, you would think that if there's a team that could shoot you stray out of a zone, it would be them. Sure. Yep. And we saw, you mentioned Rondo earlier. He was great in the first quarter.

maybe one of his best stretches with the Lakers. He had a really bad third quarter. I tweeted that he should be pulled from the game. And then he was great. Down the stretch on the fourth quarter, he can make a positive impact. I like the Lakers using him a little bit as a screener. The playmaking him pushing the ball in transition was great for the Lakers.

And he was active on defense. That needs to continue because it doesn't seem like he's not going to come off, you know, play fewer minutes. He's going to play a lot. and if they can continue to get this Rondo who does more for that team on the defensive end than maybe what he's done throughout the last two seasons that's a huge boost for them.

Yeah. These playoffs, you know, we were already impressed by the level of play in the bubble. These playoffs have outperformed any level of expectation I had, honestly. They're so good. They're like the level of play so good. I mean, not having home arenas. in this thing and you think, and they've been down there in that bubble for so long,

they're not getting the long breaks where they're traveling and then like they're playing out a Wednesday and then their next game might be on a Saturday or a Sunday. Like none of that. And yet the competition level and these games by and large have been so good. And the strategy by these coaches and the chess match. Like I feel like, I don't know. Like I think at the beginning of all of this, we thought, is this always going to have an master-risk, is it always going to be different?

And as you and I have watched all of these games take place, I don't feel that way at all. I don't think this is going to be a weird champion. I don't think that this is going to be a, we look back and say, oh, the team that won the title that year and the shortened year or whatever, like, it has all felt so oddly normal, you know?

Like, it's not, And I'm not so sure that these would be that competitive and that good if we were playing them out the way we, like when, when normal life existed. You know what I mean? Things would be different if you had home courts, you know. It would. That's what I'm saying. Would they be as good at games? I don't think they'd be.

I kind of feel like the neutral makes this better, oddly. I mean, I can't help but, you know, watching the Celtics and Raptors series. I can't help but miss the crowd in that series more than any. I mean, the Raptors and Celtics have two of the best home courts and all the basketball. And I miss seeing that. It's cool, you know, seeing the video screen when they flash to it, you know, they show Jurassic Park when the Raptors hit a huge shot and all that. Those old clips, I miss that. I miss it.

Crowds can have a profound effect on the game and the energy of the team. and, you know, we always talk about how role players play so much better at home when it comes to the playoffs. Well, there is no home. There is no home now, right? So that's out. And so now you're just getting basketball. And the other thing is they don't affect the refs. They don't.

Like, there is no crowd to affect the officials when everybody's bearing down on you and it gets stressful. You even brought up a situation. Nick Nurse is making up for it, though. He's constantly hounding the officials. He's trying his damn best to make up for it. He really does. And you know what? He is the, I got to say, he comes off to me as the most likable guy that bitches a lot.

Typically the guys get bitch all the time. You're like, ah, you're tired of them. They annoy you. Like, I almost like kind of, I don't know, he has this aura about him where I like, like, I feel like he comes off like he's aggrieved. You know what I mean? Well, he always is like, yeah, the way he's always about look at his face. The way he bitches about stuff.

For the audio listeners, I just like, you know that meme last year? It was just mouth just wide open. Yes, that look. It's always on his face. I feel like he feels like he's aggrieved. Like he comes off like, I really believe I am getting a raw deal here. he's not like angry like yelling at them he's got a very deliberate style about the way he bitches about the refs which I actually quite enjoy you know what I mean like it's fun it's almost like it's

hurt as he gets feelings what's happening I mean I think it's important to work the refs we see that in the NFL probably more than the NBA NFL happens constantly with a lot of coaches but the NBA happens when there's a bad call I think I think it can happen even when there's good calls Sport the refs. Absolutely. All right. Well, Kevin, we're going to have, Lord knows what all we're going to be talking about

by the time we get to Friday. Last thing is we close this out. Let's say Miami ends it. I mean, over under 75 times in the course of the next 365 days, or actually the next 500 days, do we end up having to talk about a Janus report? Over, obviously.

Over. That's the only reason that I want the bucks to make that thing competitive is because it's like, dude, are we going to do this? Like, because it's going to be like, oh, now with new, new leadership, you know, are the Knicks finally going to get that guy? You know, it's going to be like, are the warriors convincing you honestly? And it's like, geez, Louise. I mean, I mean, as soon as they're done, as soon as he gets knocked out,

people are going to be, because he's in a small market, people are going to be trying to find a different spot for him to play. And I hate that and I resent that so much. And I hope he's healthy, by the way. And I hope they don't run him out there. I hope they don't run out of hobbled Janus. Because, I mean, honestly, he would have to be friggin' Superman for them to come back in the series anyway.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Kevin, have a great week. I will talk to you on Friday. Looking forward to it. Thanks, everybody for listening to another episode of, the mismatch and we'll talk to you on Friday.