The Ringer NBA Show - Deandre Ayton to the Suns? Plus: Ringer Fans on the Kings, Mavs, Hornets | Draft Class (Ep. 286)

Episode Date: June 8, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor and Jonathan Tjarks discuss the probability that the Phoenix Suns will take Deandre Ayton with the no. 1 overall pick (1:21). Then they bring on resident Sacramento Kings fan Riley McAtee (15:08), resident Dallas Mavericks fans David Shoemaker and Jason Gallagher (25:43), and resident Charlotte Hornets fan Tate Frazier (37:52) to discuss their respective team’s draft possibilities. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ring NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor, and this is Draft Class, calling in from Dallas, Texas, as he does every week. It's Ringer staff writer, Jonathan, Jonathan, how's it going, man? We don't have Danny Chow in this week, but we do have some special guests. We have Riley McAtee who's going to be talking Kings, then Jason Gallagher and David Shoemaker talking Mavericks, and then Tate Frazier on the Hornets, because Charks, the NBA draft is in a couple of weeks, and it's time to talk with some of the fans of these respective teams. Yeah, we can all see some, baby. Hashtag that.

I'm pumped, I'm pumped. Or use hashtag Ringer NBA if you ever want to chat with us. We have Isaac Lee producing the pod, as always. How's it going, Isaac? I'm good, man. We're recording this on a Thursday morning. Some news is breaking. We do have an emergency NBA pod that's taping concurrently,

and you guys can check that out on our Ringer NBA feed. Yeah, Chris Ryan and Justin Vary are bringing on Ben Dietrich who broke the Brian Calangelo's story on the Ringer last week. they'll be discussing Colangelo's exit from Philadelphia and what's to come. Anyway, let's get to the pod. So DeAndre Aiton, the likely number one pick worked out for the Phoenix Suns this weekend. He pretty much said that he's not working out for anybody else because he thinks he's going number one. Jonathan, is this the likely selection for Phoenix or should they be looking in other directions?

I mean, it certainly seems like that's what they're doing. It's not a pick I would make, but I get it. I think DeAndre Aten's a tremendous fit, though, for their current. situation. You look at the other players and their team. You're not drafting for a fit. Let me make that clear. But it just does so happen that he does feel a position of need.

Alongside Devin Booker, who's already going to really handle a lot of the ball handling and playmaking responsibility. Josh Jackson who can also handle and playmaking a little bit. Then even a guy like T.J. Warren at Ford, I think Aiton, they need a true big, an anchor, a potential anchor on their defense

and someone who can... Potential definitely the word for that. And that's where Phoenix Suns fans tend to really worry about why are we passing on Luca Doncher chair because of the defensive under the floor, right, Charks? What are his weaknesses on that end for people who aren't familiar with DeAndre Ayn? I mean, the main thing

with DeAndre, like most young big men were really, really counted. He's kind of always gotten by on his physical guess, not unlike reading the defense, knowing coverage is, protecting the rim. His rim protection numbers leave he blocked, like, a pound if not fewer. He has, like, one of the lowest

will be stable, what he calls to the NBA. And obviously, blocks aren't that important, but I think DeAndre Aden, he's just going to have to learn to play defense. If he does, they're going to be a great team for a long time. So here's my thing. I had an executive text to me this week, and he's like, everybody's talking about Aton's defense, but they're not talking about Huluka Donchich isn't much of a defender either.

Like, that just gets glossed over, it seems. Yeah, but he's not a five, though. Sure, yes. But with DeAndre Aten, the thing is, is, sure, you would love if he blocked more shots if you were an elite shot blocker. You would love that. But the thing with Carl Towns is that

sometimes his hunger for blocking shots is what gets him into foul trouble or his team into fall trouble. It pulls him out of position for rebounding. Whereas DeAndre Aiton already an elite rebounder for his position, despite playing the four alongside of number five, and he's also shown great mobility,

at least in spurts. He hasn't shown it all the time, which is definitely why. there's no guarantee he becomes a great defensive player. But I think if you're the Phoenix Sun's of the number one pick, DeAndre Aiton has shown everything on the offensive end of the floor. That's why he's a top guy. But if we're nitpicking the defense, I think he's shown enough

where in a winning situation where they're competing in playoffs, where they're contending, that's what you would hope for with him. I think he has shown enough to be really good on that end. How would you compare his defense to Davis and Beaton Towns coming on a college? So Davis is on another level. that's for damn sure. Anthony Davis on another level from any of those other guys. From Carl Anthony Towns,

with Towns, the question for me out of school was, how much does he improve in terms of reading the floor? Clearly he had the shop-locking ability at Kentucky, but he also played alongside Willie Colley Stein, who was elite on that end of the floor and handled a lot of permanent responsibilities. Aiton in college is a little bit different than Towns.

Everybody seemed to think Towns was going to be good early on. Aiton, they think he's going to stink early on. It could pan out. the other way where DeAndre enters the league with a better NBA body, certainly more athletic than Carl Anthony Towns, more muscular, I think he's more mobile, he just doesn't block shots. I think they're different types of defenders. The question for me with DeAndre Aitin is, how consistent will he bring it on the defensive end of the floor?

How will he stay focused? Will he learn the intricacies of positioning? And that's something Carl Anthony Towns still hasn't necessarily done, despite having Kevin Garnett as a mentor, despite being coached by Tom Thibito, despite being coached by Tom Thibito, despite having Jimmy Butler as a teammate, those are problems that he still hasn't solved. So for DeAndre Aitne, maybe it'll be more like Joelle and Bid

who also had to improve in some of those areas and has. I think Aiton has shown a willingness to learn. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on, hold on. You're saying he's as good as Embedde was a defense. No, I'm not saying that.

I'm saying Joel and Bede had issues with positioning, with the little intricacies of defense's defense's defense. You would say Embed was starting from a much higher point than Aton non-defense progression. Like I would rank it, Davis and B. Towne, Aidan, one to four on defense, right?

Coming out of college. I would agree with that in terms of the ordering of operations, but I do think with Carl Towns maybe looking back, it's easy to say in hindsight, but maybe a little bit was put into his shot blocking, a little bit much. Maybe there's a little bit too much value placed on the fact he was just swatting everything around the rim instead of like,

oh, why is he actually going for some of these things? It's not going to work in the NBA. I guess here's my thing, too, tournament game, and it's Buffalo. Now Aidan on switches. he said, our shoes on the line, give me the number and overall

pick up the entire game. Frankly, it was a little embarrassing. Maybe that'll make Aden work harder because, like, that, watch that game and tell me that I'm worried about it. That was embarrassed.

We had this debate last year in regards to two forward prospects. I just think there can sometimes be too much placed on one game or one practice, or I just think you get to project ahead with the Andre. And yes, there's certainly concern

with the defensive end of the floor, but it's not like there isn't also promise with his mobility, promise with his rebounding, which is a very important part of the defensive end of the floor, or the fact that I think he also does a good job of altering shots without falling, too, and that's a little thing to me. I'm going to put this out there right now. I'm putting it out. Jaron Jackson is going to be a better big man than D'Andre Aton.

Like, I get passing on Lucas for a big man, but I'll think Jaron Tannenes over DeAndre Aten. I don't even care. And that's why you have Jaron Jackson ranked ahead of Aten, right? Yeah. I think it's a bold take, for sure. I think DeAndre Aiton, just to turn this around the other way, and that's why he's the number one prospect on a lot of people's boards is because of the offensive end of the floor. Aaton is just to me on another level over Jaron Jackson on defense. And I can understand, Charks, you know, why you want the greater certainty on defense.

But Aitin's finishing around the rim as a potential lob threat if you're spreading it out with four shooters and having him just rim run, his potential as a go-to score when you need it at the end of the clock, his ball handling upside. I think DeAndre Aten's passing ability is on a far higher level than Jaron Jackson too. Doesn't mean he'll get there, but there's a chance he's one of the best big men in basketball. That's why he's going number one. I just don't see that with Jaron Jackson. The other question is, wouldn't they trade that pick? Do they want to get a veteran? I think you've got to be flexible, certainly, in what you're going to be doing at that spot.

I think adding another ball handler would be nice if you're able to get more of a pure point alongside Devin Booker, maybe like a Colin Sexton or Chey Gilgis Alexander or the guy that I really love in this draft, Eli, Elie Okobo, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I like that. Yeah, you like Ellie Okobo. What is it about Okobo that you like? Because a lot of people are like, who the hell is this? I'm just like them.

I watched his tape for the first time last week, so I'm no expert. I just say, like, a really good shooter. Kevin, you probably watch more than him and I have. Can you go on doing a little more what Okobo's strengths are? Yeah, to me, so all the point guards in this year's draft, Trey Young, Colin Sexton, Sheigilda, Alexander. Those are the top three guys that are mentioned a lot in the lottery.

Elio Cobo is a 20-year-old point card from France, and to me, he's not that far separated from that top-tiered group. He might even be better than a couple of them if we had more exposure to him. I think with him, he's somebody who grew up playing the two-guard.

He's still learning the point-guard position, but this season playing in France, he has made significant progress as a ball handler and as a passer. but you're not getting him for that. If you draft a cobo, you're drafting him to be a scoring guard who complements, he can compliment with his passing because he's not going to be your lead scoring guy. He's not going to be your lead ball handler.

But he does a little bit of everything. He's intense, good athlete, smart off the ball. He can shoot off the catch. He can shoot off the dribble. He has a nice little step back. It's pretty clear to me, and we have a note about this in the ringer draft guide. It looks like sometimes he's trying to mimic James Hardin. I would guess Hardin's probably a guy that is one of his favorite players.

You guys in some of the moves. Yeah, no doubt about it. That's the guy you want to be in today's league as a James Hardin type. I think Okobo, if he falls to the back of the first round, easy steal potential. But I think he ends up being somewhere towards the middle. Yeah, I was talking to a scout overseas. A friend of scout. He told me a quick skill.

The thing I love about him is just his intensity on the floor sometimes, too. I love watching Okobo play. I do think there's some defensive questions with him, but not quite as much as someone like Trey Young, who is just a total sieve on defensive end of the floor. Ocobos get good size at 6-3, good strength. I think there's room in his frame to get even stronger, too, without compromising any of his quickness either. I think Okobo, there's at least a chance he's the best point guard in the draft.

I got a point guard take for you. Okay. I'm staying SGA, the best point guard in the draft. I'm going with my man, Shade Gilders. I would love to argue with you about it, Charks, but I'm right on the fence. I got Trey Young ranked 9th. Gilgis Alexander ranked 10th. So, like, they're neck and neck in the same tier.

I wouldn't argue with that at all, Charks, because here's the thing. Gilgis Alexander is somebody who at 6'5 foot six with near seven foot wingspan, he can defend. He can defend, but also provide complementary offense, right? Yeah, I mean, he just doesn't really just been talking his team this season. And that's represented in your new rankings on the Ringers 2018 MBA draft guide. We updated that this week. Me, Dany Chow and Charks all updated our rankings. We also updated the mock draft and added four new scutton reports of guys to fill in the blanks of the people who dropped out of the draft. So check that out at NBA draft.the ringer.com.

So we're going to take a quick break here before we bring in our ringer staffers to talk about the kings, the Mavericks, and the Hornets. But first, a break to hear from our sponsors. Today's ringer NBA show, draft class, is brought to you by Michelin. Whether your tires are new or worn, you should have the confidence to get where you need to be. That's why Michelin designed the Michelin Premier Tires. with worn performance in mind. Michelin Premier tires are built to maintain wet braking performance throughout the life of the tire.

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Shortly after moving to Los Angeles, Sonos sent me one of their Sonos playbases and a Sonos one speaker. And I've hooked that up. And ever since then, my TV and music and podcast listening experience changed because they have this really, really cool app that you're able to use and just flip between TV to podcasts. So I can be watching the NBA playoffs and then listen to music at the same time through the Sonos playbase speakers. It's amazing. I love it. When I'm in the kitchen cooking breakfast, I'll just have the app change to music or podcasts, whatever I want to do. I want to listen to Bill Simmons. I can listen to Bill Simmons. If I want to listen to

the new Liky Leelm, I can do that right through the app or using my voice. It's dope. I love it. It sounds amazing. And with Father's Day coming up, Sonos and Spotify have you covered. Go to Fathersday. Dot sonos.com and get a code for 15% off when you create a custom Spotify playlist. You can send a dad. Simply select your favorite artist in the year you were born, then do the same for Dad. And bam, Spotify will generate the perfect playlist to bridge the generation gap. Go to Fathersday.sonos.com and get 15% off when you create your playlist. The playlist generator expires June 17th and terms and conditions apply. And now let's bring on our Residence King fan, Riley McAtee.

We're back from the break. And now we have making his Ringer podcast debut. It's assistant editor Riley McAtee. What's going on, Riley? What's up? How you doing, man? So Riley, you're a Kings fan. Sacramento Kings, number two picking the draft.

You must be stoked. I'm really excited. We've never been this high of a pick in my lifetime at least, so it's awesome. Are you at all nervous about Sacramento having this pick in the draft because of some of their recent draft blunders at all? Or are you feeling? Are you just feeling hype because of all the potential possibilities at number two? It's impossible and not be a little nervous, especially with all the rumors and everything, but it's such a great draft to be at number two. There are at least two, it feels like Blue Chip, great, great guys. so I'm hoping we get one of those two, but you never know.

Charks, you and I just talked about DeAndre and likely going number one of the Phoenix Suns. That means Luca Dantrich will be on the table at number two. Charks, do you think Luca should be the selection there for the Sacramento Kings? I would love to see Luca in Sacramento. I'd take him anyways. I'd be like, I'll call your bluff.

I like it. So even if Lucas camp were like, you know what, we don't want the Kings. We'd rather him somewhere else. You still would want to take that step. risk knowing that he doesn't really want to be there. Like so in free agency comes up for a couple years from now, he might want to bounce. You know, we'll convince him.

We'll take him to Tahoe. We'll be like, look at how beautiful Northern California is. And he'll be like, wow, I love this place. And I think that's part of it. I think you're right, Riley, where if Lucas Camp did happen to not want Sacramento, you need to bring him in, like, make it a winning situation. Because Sacramento has had really, really good fans for a long time when the team's winning, right? Yeah, the fans in Sacramento are great. I mean, they're really truly fantastic.

Obviously, I'm deeply biased with this answer, but I do think he'll find a home in sack. How do you like the fit with the Aaron Fox if they did take Luca Doncho? Do you worry about too many cooks, you know, too many ball handlers at all? I don't worry about that so much because I think that Donchich is a guy who can just kind of hand the keys to. And Fox, I love Fox, but he hasn't really flashed that as a rookie. I mean, maybe he'll become that guy, but I just think that worrying about the fit is kind of overthinking it. You just want to take the best player, get talent on the floor, and then figure it out later. I totally agree that you can't worry about that.

You've got to take the best player available, the guy that you think is going to change your franchise. But with that said, Charks, if you did take Luca and it did become a little bit of an issue where maybe Fox never develops into the off-ball shooter that he needs to in order to make that work like it can, do you think Fox is somebody that you would try to flip, maybe even early, try to get another draft pick for someone like him? I think Shalana guy. Riley's shi.

shaking his head, rolling his eyes. He looks sick to his stomach. He wants to leave now. Don't even speak that name. So what's your worst case scenario? What is the only you don't want to see happen on this draft night? Well, Bill throughout the Moamba and Slack the other day, and that, like, I broke out in the hides just thinking about that.

Why does everybody hate Mo Baba? Just not at number two. Michael Porter would make me really nervous. I just do not want to mess around with the back industry. That's scary. At number two, when there's so much other talent in this draft. Yeah, I mean, Porter, I think you would have to hope that they draft Porter. They did draft Harry Giles last year.

They don't have to try to take risk. We talked about this in Slack yesterday, Charks. I just don't think Harry Giles with a 20th pick is a risk. I don't think Papayanas at 13's a risk either. I think. Papiana is a risk. I don't know, man. 13th pick.

You've got a good player at 13. That was a risk. The thing about Papianus is none of the other players that were in that range have amounted to anything. Exactly. And we got him in a trade. where we also got the rights to Bogna Bogdanovich, and he just had a good year for us. For sure, I think, you know, like after Papianas,

14, Denzel Valentine, Juan Herno Gomez, Gershanyi Buselli, Wade Baldwin, Henry Ellison, Malik Beasley, the next good player that was drafted Karas Leverd at 20, and he wasn't even in the conversation at 13. So I look at that, not really a risk at 13. It was a calculated. It was like a gamble, yeah. A little gamble.

I mean, a guy that they liked more than other teams did. Kevin, they waived him, though. They waved him at the year. end. They waived Papayanas because he stinks, but taking the selection at 13 wasn't necessarily a risk. He just turned out to be lazier and worse than they expected. Wait, wait, hold on. Hold on. Isn't that the definition of a risk? No. No, because they viewed, I can't believe I'm defending the King's draft of Papadianatus. I know. We've got to be a quarter now. We've got to go quarter.

But I just don't, maybe my risk threshold is completely different than yours, but I just don't. think Harry Giles at 20, a guy who was ranked the number one high school prospect is a risk at 20. I don't think Papi Annas in a draft where there wasn't a lot of high-end talent available at that point is a risk. I think it would be a risk if you took Papianas with the fifth pick. It was a risk for the Sons to take Dragon Bender in a year where he was so raw physically and with the skills ahead of guys like Chris Dunn, Buddy Hill, Jamal Murray. That was a risk. I think Bender. I guess speaking of Buddy, Riley, who do you like that?

I like Buddy a lot. He was definitely good as a six-man for us. He kind of struggled at the beginning of the year when he was starting, and then we brought him off the bench, and he was like this great spark plug. He's one of the best three-point shooters in the league for a while. Yeah, he definitely has a future. Offer means, right? Mm-hmm. For sure. I like him a lot. To go back to the Papianus thing, it's like, I agree with you, Charks, that that was a risk, but it was also a risk where they moved back in the draft and they got other guys. And the same thing is true with Harry Giles. So it's like, they're not afraid to take risk. but they haven't done one where they put all of their eggs in one basket. And taking like a Michael Porter or someone else at number two would be like, all right, we're all in. They haven't done that. They haven't moved all their chips on the table at once. Riley.

Yeah. What would be your ideal starting? Let's say Harry Giles, if he becomes something. Oh, I like it. Fox. I'm not sure if I'd start Bogdanovich or bring him off the bench and have buddies start, but I guess we'll say Bogdanovich has the job right now. Don't Chitch.

And then I'm not sure. sure about the power forward position might be something for free agency speaking about power forward the one name we have not uttered yet somehow the guy that i think they're going to end up drafting Marvin bagley oh my god you sound you sound concerned uh are you not a fan of marvin bagley a lot of people love barbara bagley they view him as like a 20 and 10 guy elite rebounder can get buckets you don't seem quite as high right a lot of people you mean chris vernon chris chris vernon host of a tuesday's ringer NBA show loves loves loves barbara bagley i'm really worried worried about drafting a big man who doesn't project as a rim defender.

And so if they want to go with a big, I would go with Jaron Jackson. I like his game a lot. Sharks is a celebrator. Hey, team Jared. He maybe doesn't have like the same immediate star power that you see, but I just love his skill set more than I like Bagley's. Sharks, I know you're not in your head right now, aren't you? I'm hashtagging that.

Team Jaron. Get out there. All right. I do think Bagley is probably the rookie of the year, I feel like. Sacramento. He put up really big stats for me. We've had a rookie of the year who put up big stats right away in Terry Kevin. And that's not working out for us. You know, I think if you're Sacramento and let's just say hypothetically the choices between Jaron Jackson and Marvin Bagley,

let's say Luke is not on the table. For whatever reason, he's just not. Maybe they don't view him as highly as others do. Maybe he doesn't want them. Maybe it's both. They just, Luke is not on the table theoretically. It's Marvin Bagley versus Jaron Jackson. If you're Sacramento, Marvin Bagley is the guy who can help you immediately, who can push you closer to the playoffs. But Jaron Jackson, as you guys both mentioned, is certainly the guy who provides greater certainty long-term on the defensive end of the floor. But I don't know if you're going to get that immediate return.

Riley, do you think Sacramento Kings fans would be able to deal mentally or the front office is in a position where they can take a short-term hit where Jackson isn't making a big impact early, but Marvin Bagley is somewhere else putting up 20 and 10. That's a good-of-year numbers. Can the Kings front office deal with that? Can King's fans be patient enough to deal with that potential possibility between Jackson or Bagley? I think that fans could be patient enough, but it would be really tough, particularly because we don't have our pick next year. I just think if you want the immediate impact, draft Don'titch.

That's the guy who's going to give you the immediate impact. He's the MVP of the Euros at 19. Like, he's going to come in and immediately be good. So that's what I would go with. But if I'm making the decision, if it's between Bagley and Jackson, I'm always thinking long term. Always long term. It's always about the long game.

I'm with you, Raleigh. Got to go, Luca Dantritch. Thank you for joining the show today. You bet. Yeah. You've got to how you on. Your first pot ever, that's awesome. Thank you, man.

Thank you for having me. This is so much fun. That was a good time, dude. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, Raleigh, for joining the show. We're going to take another quick break before we bring on our Mavericks fans, David Shoemaker and Jason Gallagher.

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We've got the great David Shoemaker, the art director and host of the Best Podcastic. And then we got producer Jason Gallagher, that's both from Dallas, the folks. Let's do it. Let's do this. For the draft stuff, we're looking. Who do you guys want at five? What are you looking for? If we were picking at three, I would be holding out hope that Luca Dantrich would be.

fall to three. Picking at five, I'm holding out hope that Jaron Jackson somehow slides to five. My guy. The Ringer mock draft is, you know, one of the great creations, one of the wonders of the modern world. But that said, I was putting all of my stock and other mock drafts that I saw that had Jaron Jackson, on lottery day that had Jared Jackson at like five, six, seven, eight, because people hadn't really dug into them yet. Right. And I was hoping that we were the outlier. Now, it seems like a lot of other people have caught up or at least started reading the Ringer Mock draft. So he's climbing the charts. But, I mean, those are my guys.

I don't think there's any way that Lucas slides to five, but I guess there's some scenario in which he slides to three and there's a trade or something. I don't know. The big rumor is that it's somehow, some way he falls to four.

Then the Mavericks would try some extravagant trade with Memphis. Well, here's what it is. Yeah, go for it. They would take Chandler-Parson's contract back. What do you think about that? Goo! I have not.

I mean, like, that's fine, I guess. I mean, it's not like Barnes. I don't see like Barnes being the guy of the future. So I guess it's like, I don't know how I feel about that. I read something the other day that was like Parsons' contract might technically be the single worst, like NBA contract ever. Only, only two years left, though. Only two years left for Chandler Parsons.

So it's painful, but not past 2020. So it's not too bad. The timelines on the Mavs are all messed up. And I'm not a huge Mobamba fan, but I understand from you experts what the upside is there. But like, there's not a lot of guys in this draft that match a Harrison Barnes timeline. Are you even trying to match a Harrison Barnes timeline? No, no. Is there a timeline?

I think that's an open question. I find it hard to imagine that Mark Cuban is not trying, is not thinking in terms of that timeline. Like he wants to win now, you guys think. Sure. I've heard from multiple people that he wants to playoff next season. Yeah, yeah. Like that's the thing he really wants to do. Which is why I think with some of the Carlisle noise,

it was like, well, if we're rebuilding it, if we're blowing it up, then I don't want to be here, perhaps, just theoretically. But if you're going to try to win now, then, of course, Carlisle doesn't want to stay. Yeah, I forgive me, but, like, with all the mock drafts and all the stuff, I feel like a lot of people have us at Mo Bomba, and I'm just, like, something about that just does not excite me whatsoever. Totally agree. And so.

Kevin's on Moamba Island, are you? Okay. So, wait a minute. All three. you don't want Mo Bamba. Charks has Mo Bama ranked 11th. In both of you don't want Bamba either. Well, you sell us.

Unless you think Bamba is Kevin Durant, who's taller and has a better wingspan. I'm just fascinated, though, that nobody wants Mo Bamba. So, okay, here's the thing with Mo Bamba. Yes. Foundation, foundationally, here's what he's going to be. A room protector, 7 foot 10 wingspan, who anytime he's on the floor,

it's going to be tough to score around the rim with his potential mobility, his potential shot-blocking prowess, Moamba is going to be a really, really good rebounder and rim protector. Offensively, space the floor with four shooters around him. I think he's going to have a lob threat, a guy who can finish. A guy who can pass a little bit too, can make some good reads out there on the floor. Yeah. The question with him is going to be on defense.

What level does he reach on defensive switches when it comes to depending on the perimeter? I think he's going to be fine. And then offensively, I saw him work out this week, and his shooting mechanics certainly do look improved. He didn't have a great shooting day when I saw him, but the mechanics are significantly better, and they're pretty consistent overall. So with him, it's like you're getting him to be a screening,

rim-running guy with the bonus of a shooting ability developing over the next two to three to four years. And he's made great progress in a month and a half since starting his NBA draft training. So I look at him as somebody who, high IQ on and off the court, somebody who has shown a willingness to learn really good defensive player

potentially great like a Gobert type then offense he has that rim running foundation that's great for Rick Carlisle offenses with the potential to be more than that I was very positive more than anything I think for any Maver's fan that saw this young rookie coming in rookie point guard the biggest win

would be he and Carlisle got along and he seemed to listen to Carlisle and Carlisle seemed to trust him a little bit at the ends of games and it was like, okay, we'll take that as a W there. Yeah, and it seemed like even there, I mean, they had a little bit of, you know, they had a few adversarial moments, but it all seemed like relatively low-key

or at least in good fun. There was that, what was the game at the end of the season where he like got the steel at half court and like, did he like throw the ball off the backboard to himself and did a dunk? And I was in ringer slack and I was just like, all right, like start the countdown clock to the one game suspension or whatever.

And then like five hours later, it was like, Dennis Smith is too tired to play the next game, the word from Red Carla. It was fantastic. And watching him this season, especially watching him live, it felt like, I mean, he really felt like a really great 18-year-old college prospect that showed up at the YMCA when a bunch of old men were playing.

You know, he's just, like, he kind of has to defer, but he's just so much better than them in all the basic ways. I love him. And I can imagine the DSJ Mobamba connection, but it all, it seems very like. like, there's something very, like, video game creative player about that combo or something. Yeah, there is. I'm just not, I'm not all there. I suppose he would be, like, a really good, because in a lot of ways, if you're talking about

when now, you have to think about who is going to be out there with Dirk. And someone, like, you kind of have to have someone like Mo Bamba. Sure. I mean, like, you can't, which one of the other two big guys was, like, worse defensively? Was it Bagley? Bagley. Bagley? Like, exactly.

Like, him with Dirk would be, like, a nightmare. right? I mean, yeah, but even Dirk and Moe, I mean, if they somehow got Moe to a playable state by the playoffs I mean, you know, a starting center at least a 15 minute player in the playoffs, I feel like Bamba and Dirk will get run off the court every night. I mean, I hate to say

it guys, but... Yeah, I know, that's the problem. Yeah. Like, no jerk, but... Charks, is there anything Bamba can do between now and the draft that can win you over for him? I'm curious. I mean, if they draft for them, I'll talk myself into it. Yeah, same.

Like, he kept to right. I've been like a big show anti-bomba thing and I'm like, I gotta take my time back to get bomb on the mask and I'd be like, yeah, next to you go there. Like, I'll follow them like, whatever. Yeah, same. I got one question because I've been told

I was crazy. You know, like, I'm a think outside the box kind of guy. You are, you are. I've talked myself into a lot. I secretly deep down, I'm like, take Tray Young. Whoa. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

That is it safe. And Jay Dennis Smith? No, keep them both. Let's go. Splash Brothers 2.0. I'm like, I'm really, really high on Trey Young. And I just think the way he was able to score and the combined with his usage and that he showed up in that NCAA tournament game, I was just like, the guys got it mentally.

And I believe it. I fully believe it. And I just feel like I just don't want to be the team that passes up on a player like that. I'm really, really high on this guy. And I'm sorry. I think that would have the makings of a Portland 2.0, Damien Lillard, C.J. McCollum. Really, really fun to watch. Great in the regular season, but not enough defense in the back court for the playoffs.

There is a, this is a stack draft in a lot of ways, but like, maybe it's just because the Mavs, I've been thinking about the Mavs as a top, you know, having a top pick for so many months. I have so much anxiety about the lottery selections. There's a lot of guys who I would love to take at 10 or 11. And Trey Young is one of those guys, Michael Porter, who I love. to death, but, like, you know, you got the injury issues. There's a lot of guys who I would feel really cool about the Mavs taking at 10.

Like, yeah, you don't want rather be at 10 in a weird way because it's like 5 is where you really can screw up. Ten is like the gamble, and we're kind of like, oh, I got... No, see, but what I'm thinking, though, like, if you're at 10, you might draft a guy offender. It's tough, because you guys are at 5, and I'm curious, if the top 4, it goes like it does in our mock draft right now in the rear.

Aiton, number 1, Donchurch number 2, Jackson number 3, bagley number 4. I want to know who are you guys each taking with that fifth pick. Let's start with you, Charks. I might trade down if I could. Oh, you're staying. You got to take somebody at five. You have to take somebody at five.

You have to take somebody at five. Play the game. Okay. I'm going to take Miles Bridges. I don't even care. I love Miles Bridges. Wow. How about your shoemaker?

This is such a hard mental exercise because I have convinced myself that the top four will not go the way that you just said. But if I have to deal in reality right now, I could talk myself into Bamba and if not, if you feel good about Michael Porter's health. Yeah. I really like the idea of just getting, I mean, kind of going

the route that Boston meant to do before the season started even though they had all those injuries and just going all in on like rangy forwards and see how many of them you can play at the same time. So Porter? Porter, Harry Barnes, signed Jabari Parker. Let's just go.

Oh my God. I mean, not to a max contract, but you know Did you like take a flyer on it? Trade take on Fareed. How about you, Jason? Oh, man. Okay, so as a guy who's not running a team and has literally nothing to lose, let's run that Trey Young.

Let's run it, maybe. Okay, but if I actually had any responsibility, I'd probably play it safe and just go with Mobomber. It would just be like, everyone says it, right? But, you know, as a gambler, as I like to be, I would, I don't know. I just, I like the guy. Yeah. Even if Mobamba just is a total bus

when Kevin O'Connor is running the Knicks in five years so hire you. Let's do this. I would love to run the Knicks. I'd love to work for you. James Dolan ever, if he's a listener of the ring of the show, I was saying, yeah. You and Dolan, me.

I would love to. James Donnell, let's start a band. Let's do this. I've been wanting to start a band for like the whole decade and I've never done it. Can I ask just one more question of Charks? Are there any trade scenarios you've heard or trade rumors or anything that like really

intrigue you that seem realistic? Well, I mean, the big one take three is contract is a 14th pick. I have a case there. You get two lottery picks. You get two swings to die. I think, but the problem is they want to use a captain on players who are good now. Those players never come. When do we ever have to make it happen?

And by the way, all the players, almost every player that they offered a max contract to and missed on, has been crap too. Yeah, that's my take is that as much as we've missed on players, players have missed on us. Well, like, they're going to find on the white side, Mike and Nick and went off season.

Like, imagine that team going forward. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I want to chat with you guys more of unfortunately, a lot of time, sadly. Yeah, we'll come back on when the MADS are in the finals next year. Absolutely, yes.

Absolutely. That's what happened. And Tray Young is leading the way. Jason, David, thank you guys so much. Bye, guys, thanks. Thanks. Thanks, thanks. It was fun.

And now we have talking Charlotte Hornets. The guy used to produce the ringer NBA shows. He has moved on from us. Yes. because now he's the host of the One Shining podcast with Mark Titus. It's Tate Frazier. What's up, Kevin O'Connor? What's up, Jonathan Charks?

It's so weird to be in this position, you know, talking on this side of the microphone with you guys. But I'm happy to be here. I have no notes. You guys prepare so much for this podcast as I know. You have all this stuff mapped out. What do you want to talk about? And I am just coming here off the cuff.

I just want to talk about the Hornets because I'm excited for the first time in a while. Because they hired Mitch Cupbts and the general manager, right, Tate. Yes, because, you know, people are, you know, they were upset about this because they were like Mitch is old. He's past his prime. He's with the Lakers for, you know, 17 years so long. But all I would say to that is Michael Jordan, as we know, has been running the show in Charlotte for quite some time

since he was, you know, basically since day one since he was the owner. And he's needed someone to check him. And he's got the cup check. He's got the cup check. This is the one thing that he's always needed. Like when he's sitting in a room and he has the 11th pick and he's thinking to himself, you know what, screw it. I should just take Grayson Allen.

I know he's a winner. You know? You need the cup check. where he's like, no, Michael, you don't want Grayson Allen. I know that you think he's fiery. You do not want to pick him. And he's like, okay, you're right. I'll walk it back. That's what they needed in Charlotte. Hey, who do you want at 11?

Who should they take then? When Cup Check checks Michael Jordan. The other thing that Michael Jordan really wants is to get rid of money. He doesn't like paying people. That's one of the biggest things that Michael Jordan has. So he wants to get rid of all these guys. He has a bunch of huge contracts, which he's not happy about. So he brings in Cupcheck. And what I think is going to happen is they want to dump these contracts. I think they want to dump Dwight at some point. I think they may start the season with him, whatever.

But that 11 pick, I don't know if they want to pay a rookie, you know, whatever, the $3 million or whatever it would be. I don't think they want to do that because then they might get in the luxury tax, right there. They're pretty close. Right now they have $117.9 million and guaranteed salary already for next year before their pick, before bringing back any, like Trayvion Graham or whoever. For what? Like, who are they paying all this money to is what I'm?

I'm saying, and I'm so, I know that Jordan is looking at this and he's like, we got to figure this out right now, we got it, we got to, we got to move some money around and they're not going to sign NTW back, right? He's not going to come back, I don't think. Graham might come back, we'll see what happens with that. So they have to get a backup point guard for Kimba. They have to get a power forward

because Frank Kaminsky is, you know, averages like 10 points per game, he's their starting power for it. Frank Kempinski, who by the way they said no to four first round picks. That's the perfect example. Danny Age looks like a genius just because Michael Jordan thought that he was getting fleeced in the deal. You know, it was so, it was too good to be true, so Michael Jordan's like,

I'm not going to take the deal. Going to take Frank the tank, maybe. What does Dady know that I don't about Frank Kaminsky? Let me take him here. It is more big 10 power forward. Yeah. And that's who Michael Jordan, I think, wants to take number 11. I really do think Miles Bridges, if he's there, that is, that is a Michael Jordan pick if I've ever seen one. He'll take Miles Bridges. He probably in his mind says to himself, Miles Bridges is the best player in the draft.

That's what Michael Jordan is thinking. Now Mitch Cupsack is thinking, I need get rid of money. I got to dump some of these guys. I might even trade this pick because I don't want to pay some guy. So he might just take the best talent on the board and try to trade him. Like if Gilgis Alexander is there, maybe he takes him and is like, let's try to get this shipped out somewhere. Maybe to Cleveland. I don't know. I feel like Mitch Cupcheck's going to trade that pick. He wasn't really trying to show his hand at the press conference, but I don't foresee them signing someone because they don't want to spend the money. If they keep the pick, though, Charks, I know you've heard about Miles Bridges this week on the ringer.com. How would he

fan into Charlotte? What is it about Miles Bridges that would make him a good fit at 11 or even a potential suit? Well, I think a good athlete who's pretty smart kind of in the air. Hey, I'm curious about Blake Monk. What do you think about him to show? What happened? I think Monk and Bacon are a part of the future. I think they're both going to get more playing time.

I think there's like a little bit of a split regime there with some of these young guys. I know that they really like Herning Gomez, which I do too. I think he's a good sinner. I think he's a good sinner. I think he's kind of bite the bullet on Zeller. They already paid him. I think he has three more years. No one's going to take that contract. So you might as well. It's not even that bad of a deal. I mean, it maxes out at 15.4 million in the final year. That's not too bad.

I'll take it. And maybe the Pacers want him at some point. Maybe next year. We'll hold on to it. Oh, that's a very much pacers take for sure. Yeah, exactly. If Larry Bird shows up one day at the facility and it's like, what do you guys think about Cody Zeller? They'll make the trade. You know what I mean? That's all it takes. Like, I will pay him to come in and say that just so he'll get off the Hornets. Who do you want on the Hornets? Is there anybody you want to keep? I think Kimba is, you know, coming into the last year of his deal. I think he's the perfect person to trade-off and get him a better opportunity.

To where? If I'm the Cavs, I think to myself, what is LeBron liked in the past? Like, I have to entice LeBron and Free Agency at this point. He likes Shabazz Napier. Who is the all-star version of Shabaz Napier? Kimball Walker. We just try to make that trade. That's the selling point. And LeBron's like, yeah, he won a title. I watch college basketball. Sure. He's a little bit like Michael Jordan, you know? He just bases everything on college and thinks that's going to

stick up. That's why Jeff Green's on his team right now. So he makes this trade. He makes his trade for Kimba Walker. They make the trade. They get Kimba in Cleveland. The eighth pick is what the Hornets have, and they have the 11th pick. I like it. I think both of those picks, at 8, you take the best player available, which is, I mean, I would love for Sexton to be there.

I think that would be a great pick. I think he'll be there. If Sexton's there, then you just. He might be there at 11, to be honest with you. At 11, I think they're going to take Robert Williams. Okay. And I think that Cupcheck loves Robert Williams. He was at that game when they, you know, trounce Carolina in that second round game.

He killed him in that game. And so did Tyler Davis. And I think after that game, Cup check even said something about Robert Williams playing out of position, which is what he did in college. He played the center position. He's going to play the power forward.

They don't think Frank's the power forward to the future. Is he going to play power forward? I think he is. I don't know. You think he's going to play the five? I think Robert Williams is going to be just a five, rim running five. Like Capella?

Yeah, roll down the lane. Yeah, yeah. I'm fine with that too. Maybe Monk plays the point card at this point. I have heard that he wants to be a two guard. Like he's reluctant to almost take on more playmaking responsibility. Because he wants to shoot.

Because he wants to shoot. Exactly. Exactly. I don't understand. That's what he's best at. Yeah. Right? But when they brought him in last year, basically Clifford had decided for whatever reason he was going to be

hip and new and play him like James Hardin at the point guard. And I don't think he's ready for that. Like he needed Foxx buying. And then he super glued him to the bench for the rest of the damn season. Yes. Very disappointing. And Bacon. I want Bacon to play more.

I don't know how you guys feel about Duane Bacon, but I have a lot of faith in Florida basketball players. Yeah. I think he can do it. It's got a great last name. Yeah. Great NBA body. great NBA body.

I think he can certainly be a long time. They're all working out this summer too in Charlotte, which is I think, I don't know, for the first time it feels like they're a little bit of a college team. They basically are trying to model themselves after the Spurs. They're trying to, like Michael Jordan basically wants to run a better college version of Carolina basketball to spite Carolina basketball for not letting him

be on that SI cover in 1982. He's like, he's got vendettos for days, you know, so he wants to prove that he's the best college program. So he brings him Berego, who's like a college coach, and it all sets up. Hey, when is the next Hornis playoff? I think they make the playoffs next season.

I really do. Oh. Even if they trade Kemba, like you wanted to, even then? Or if they keep everybody? If they keep everybody and run it back, which I think is what they're going to have to do

just because Cleveland's not going to make that trade, just because for fear that LeBron does go somewhere else, they want to go young. And it's probably bigger fish to go forward to then, Kempa. Absolutely. Like, in my mind, Kimba, Kimba is a perfect fit for the Cavaliers.

In everyone else's mind that has a brain and watches basketball, they're like, there's no way that will happen, you know? But in my mind, I just want Kimba to have a chance to go try to win a title at some point. So I'm trying to will him to Cleveland, basically, just for you, Kimba. Doing it for Kemba. Can I ask you about all these guys? So Barago, I don't know much about the guy that he comes to Charlotte, gets hired as the head coach.

I mean, he says he wants to score quickly and he wants to shoot within the first eight seconds of the shot clock. Kimba Walker and Dwight Howard have never ever been able to do that in their entire lives, nor will they be able to. Dwight Howard Yeah, they don't have the first sell to do that. So, like, that means they have to make a trade if that's the way Barago is going to play, and that seems to be the philosophy

Cup check wants to run. So all that's to be said is, if you're another one of these teams that wants a veteran piece, like if you are the Mavs or whoever and you want to make a real run, why aren't you calling the Hornets to try to get Kimber or Dwight?

I think they have value. Kenba does. Yeah, certainly Walker has value. Dwight Howard wasn't horrific last year. He wasn't horrible. This is a contract. He got one third team All-NBA vote, folks.

Got one. One vote. We're going to find out soon who that was. I can't wait because I'm going to send that person a thank you basket for all they did for us. Yeah, the problem is the salary at $23.8 million, but it's expiring. Right. Just one year left. Yeah, dump him.

If you want to bring in Dwight for one year, perfectly fine. But you're right that those players do clash with the style of play that he wants to play. Yeah. Tate, last question. Hornets on the clock 11th pick. They're keeping it and not trading it. If they're willing to go into the luxury tax with this draft selection, who's the selection? McEl bridges, who's somehow.

on the board. I love it. I love it. Tate. Thank you so much for joining the show, man. Appreciate it, guys. Of course. Draft class. What a time. Thank you again to Tate for joining the show to Chalk Hornets and Jason Gallagher and David Shoemaker on Mavericks and then Riley McAtee on the Kings. Now it's time for grades. Isaac, what up? What up? What up?

Jonathan Chalks, let me start with you. Great Mavs talk today. As a producer, I always love it when you personalize your analysis and tell anecdotes. Also, you said Jaron Jackson over D' Andre Aiton. That's the kind of catering to your producer take I love. Plus, you said you take Miles Bridges F5 if he was available. Honestly, at this point, you're really just forcing my hand.

You get an A plus for your pro-Michigan state takes. Well, Tom is that was terrible this year. How about that? Yeah, Tomazzo was really terrible. On a different note, Kevin O'Connor. Hi. My grade for you today is very unrelated to the podcast. You guys know I love NBA desktop.

I spend an unhealthy amount of time with Jason Concepcion in my daily life as a producer of binge mode. The last episode featured an investigation into the Kevin O'Climber story, aka Gate Gate Gate. Honestly, after watching that, I'm uncertain as to whether I should believe your story anymore. Are you kidding me? Shout out to D and Tanya and Mose, by the way. Great job on that video. Kevin, you get a D-Mines. Listen, it happened.

It really happened. Sure, but did it happen exactly as you said? Yes, it happened exactly as I said. Was there a gate or was there no gate? Listen, in that video, how many water bottles were in your backpack? That gate comment was taken out of context. The full comment was, there was no gate to go through, and they cut it as no gate because I misspoke.

Oh, it's they. It's they. It's they cut it. Yes. It's their fault. The full quote was, there's no gate to go through. There was no gate to go through. Because at this gate, there was a white button to press, and I pressed this white button.

It literally says press, press, press, press, button to open gate. I pressed this button and it didn't work or I was doing it incorrectly. So that's when I decided, you know what? I got to hop this fence because my driver's already here. But what about the laptop theory? What about the water? But why is you fall

on your back? Why is the patch of grass so small? Because because I didn't throw my bag. It's true. I didn't want to throw my bag because I didn't want to break my laptop. That's the truth. I didn't want to break my laptop. And the other reason was because I knew that if

I were to fall, slip, I would have cushion on the fall. And that's exactly what happened. But then you would also fall on your laptop. No, I wouldn't because the laptop was the part that's closest to my back and within the bag. Then there's a bunch of water bottles that I had to take back to my hotel room like a nerd. Doesn't check out. Listen. I'm still skeptical.

It was a perfectly executed plan. You know what? If we get that security footage and we're working on it, you were going to laugh at me because it's so stupid. I look so dumb. I'll give you extra credit. I'll raise you grade up. we do get the security footage. I want A pluses forever if we get the security footage.

Sure, whatever you say. I'll take the D-Miles for now, though. It's okay. Well, that was fun. Jonathan, thank you for calling it from Dallas. Yeah, it's fun, as always. And Isaac, even though you're questioning the validity of my story, thank you as well for producing.

Of course. From here in beautiful Los Angeles, thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NBA show. Please write The Ringer NBA show five stars on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast. For extra credit, please check out the Ringer's 2018 NBA draft guide at NBA draft.orgon.com. Special shout-out to everybody who joined the show today. Jason, David, Riley, Tate. Super grateful that they all join the show. Next week, we're going to have a couple

more special guests, not including Elon Musk, unfortunately, but I'm going to try to get them. Well, thank you so much for listening. Have fun. Peace out.