The Ringer NBA Show - Debate the Dukies: Marvin Bagley vs. Wendell Carter, Plus NCAA Tournament Risers | Draft Class (Ep. 230)

Episode Date: March 16, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, and Danny Chau debate the pros and cons of two highly touted Duke University freshmen, Marvin Bagley III and Wendell Carter Jr. (3:21), and highlight four prospects whose draft stock may rise over the course of March Madness (17:19). Check out The Ringer’s 2018 NBA Draft Guide with contributions from O’Connor, Tjarks, and Chau. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's March Madness, finally. Today, Jonathan Charks and Danny Chowell will be on to discuss Duke's two big men, Wendell Carter and Marvin Bagley, and the players that have a chance to rise up their rankings this month. But before we get to that, I get to tell you about this website called theverringer.com. It's pretty cool. This week, we launched our brand new 2018 NBA draft guide. Right now, it has 15 key players to watch in the NCAA tournament,

ranked in no particular order, featuring my full scuttering reports for all 15 players, and then Danny and John also offer their third. thoughts and the five players you won't see this month, but you need to know, like our guy, Luca Donchich. We're going to add more and more to this guide as the draft approaches. Eventually, we're going to have 60 full profile. So stay plugged into the ringer's 2018 NBA draft guide at NBA draft.com.

It's also Kentucky basketball week, or as we're calling it, the Kentucky Basketball Association at the ringer.com, which focuses on Kentucky and John Calapari's impact in the basketball world. There's an incredible piece by Paulo Yuggetti on the Wildcats and on John Calapari. And really, it focuses on the guys who didn't make it in the NBA. Guys like Daniel Orrin and Archie Goodwin. It's a terrific read. Go check that out.

And also, while you're at it, please check out the Ringer Podcast Network. The Big Boss, Bill Simmons, had Kevin Clark and I on his show yesterday, the Bill Simmons podcast, to talk about NBA tanking awards. They talked to NFL. And then this month, it's crucially important that you're listening to One Shining podcast with Titus and Tate. We had them on draft class last Friday. But now you've got your fill listening to them every single day.

on The One Shining Podcast. So check out that and all of our podcasts on the Ringer Podcast Network. And now it's time for Draft Class. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor. This is Draft Class, our weekly Friday show where we're going to break down the 2018 NBA draft. Right now, it's the best time in the year for fellow Ringer staff writer, Jonathan Charks.

Hey, what's up, guys? I already told my wife there'll be no connect time this weekend. It's basketball. We also have a very, very special guest back on the show. after a month hiatus, it's a ringer, associate editor, Danny Chow. You know what's funny is that like every pod that I've been on since the last time I was on draft class, they always introduced me as a host of the show. And I'm like, ah, you know what?

I've been on once, but it'll be more frequent. It's your show now, Danny. You made it your show now. I'll take it, I guess. And Isaac Lee, our producer. Hey. Any thoughts on March Maddis who's going to win it all this month? I honestly don't care about this inferior brand of basketball.

I only care about the NBA. By the way, back to Danny Chow owning this podcast. The initials of this podcast is D.C., draft class. Oh, man. Danny Chow's initials are also D.C. Oh, wow. All I'm saying is it might be his podcast. That was an Easter egg right there, E.E.

Well, we're recording this on a Thursday. It's 9.07 a.m. on the West Coast, which means Trey Young and Oklahoma are about to play in about eight minutes, depending on how long after we're scheduled 9-15 start time. So if we say anything silly from Thursday. Thursday that changed. Oh, well, you're going to hear this on Friday morning without us knowing anything that's happening on Thursday. So let's get it going. So to kick this off, we're going to talk about two Duke freshman big men, Marvin Bagley, the third, who you probably know, one of the top ranked prospects. He's 6'11, 234 pounds, 7 foot wingspan, putting up 21 points, 12 rebounds. Dude is just absolutely filthy at the college level. and then we're going to compare him to his teammate. Wendell Carter Jr. 6'10, 260 pounds with a 7 foot 3 wingspan,

averaging 14 points, 9 rebounds, 2 assists, not putting up the big time numbers, but it's been a little bit odd, John. As the draft has kind of approached as this college season has passed, there's been a little bit of noise that maybe Wendell Carter is sneaking up on Marvin Baggley.

I'm curious about your thoughts on that and if it's just a little bit of maddening. I think it's worth pointing out, So we put out our first NBA draft guide online. Check it out. It's really beautiful. For Bagley's minuses, you've got not very good at defense, no instincts, poor shooter, predictable finisher only goes left.

Then for like Carter's minuses you have, oh, he's kind of young. You know, he got hurt one time. It's like, okay, I wonder who you like more. Yeah, KOC, state your case for Wendell Carter Jr. Okay, so here's the thing. I'm not saying I would take Wendell Carter ahead of Marvin Bagelie in all situations. But I do think Marvin Bagley is a guy with. some of those very recognizable concerning flaws.

Like his defensive instincts, it's like, sure, you could say theoretically he could be a locked down multi-positional defender. That is obvious with the way he moves, the athleticism that he has and his leaping ability. But the instincts really aren't great. Whereas with Carter, the knock tends to be, oh, you know, he's slow-footed. But I'm not sure he's quite as slow-foot as people think. I think he's actually pretty solid laterally, and he has excellent defensive instincts. I think at the NBA level, you also need to consider the fact that Bagley only has a seven-foot

wingspan and he's extremely lean, whereas Wendell Carter is extremely thick with the ability to battle down low against some of those bigger bruising big men like a Joe L. M. Bid, maybe that's the type of guy you need to beat in the playoffs in order to win a championship. And to mention, he has a longer seven-foot-three wingspan. So while he doesn't have the leaping ability, he has longer arms. Like, they are contrasting players on the defensive end of the floor. and I just kind of tend to feel a little bit more safe with Wendell Carter on the defensive end.

Granted Bagley has overall higher upside because of his offensive prowess. Right. And my case for Wendell Carter actually has nothing to do with the on-court stuff. He's a very multifaceted guy. The guy was a straight-A honor roll student in high school. And he actually...

Didn't he almost go to Harvard or something? Yeah, yeah. So if he didn't go to Duke, he was going to go to Harvard. And he is a theater nerd. He actually skipped some AAU competition. so that he could be a part of his school theater's production of a Broadway show. The dude is a Renaissance man. John, is that winning you over right now?

Or does that matter to you at all? Well, maybe winning me over. So you said on your draft guide, he had an undisclosed foot injury in January. Because that's one, like, I think the concern about Carter really came up. I went back and watched these two games against St. John's at Boston College. And those are the two games where they just got absolutely killed in the pick and roll.

By these two guys named Shamari Ponds and Kai Bowman. and Cardaban with like Chris Paul, basically. So you're telling me he was hurt in those games? Well, I don't know. We know the extent. I think he just missed a little bit of practice. Might be nothing major at all. Okay.

We might remove that, like, pluck it out eventually. Yeah, that's the weird thing about, you know, with college, they don't really disclose the severity or the actual injury. So it's a lot of legwork just trying to figure out what happened to these guys. It's like last year with Markle Foltz, they just said, sornie. Right. No specific details. And even OG Aninobe.

Yeah, OG as well, yeah. Yeah. We didn't get the extent of his ACL injury until way after the fact. Absolutely. To me, those games, that's when Coach K. was like, okay, this team can't play man defense. We got to sit in the zone. And Duke's been in the zone pretty much ever since.

And that to me is the big concern, like, why is he not playing man defense? Like, I need Carter. It's all about guarding ball screens now for centers. And he's just not doing it right now in college. And that really concerns me going forward. I think on the offensive end of the floor, that's another side of it where with Bagley, shooting 37% from 3, but only 62% from the free throw line. I have serious questions about his touch, whereas with Carter,

I think he's really good with either hand near the rim, 46% from 3, good stroke from the free throw line, granted it's still only 73%. We talk a lot about the importance of spacing in the NBA. Carter is a guy that I think with his mechanics and with his touch is more likely to be a competent shooter at the NBA level, whereas with Bagley, I have questions, and it's not like he's a knockdown guy off the dribble necessarily, either. I think with Bagley, he's clearly a monster scoring inside the paint. But I wonder,

John, do you think that might be enough if the shot never develops for him to be worthy of be taking on like the top three or top four? No, see, I think that's a good concern with Bagley. Like, to me, he's not the same player, but I think he has the same impact as like Julius Randall. Like, to me, Julius is more skilled than Bagley, but less of an athlete. But it's the same overall profile. It's a guy who gets buckets inside, can't block shots, may not be able to shoot. And like, Julius, I think, will be a good player eventually, but these last four years have been tough on him. He's not getting it together now.

This is his fifth year in the NBA or his fourth. But I could say with Bagley for sure, a path kind of like that. With Wendell, I agree. I think his stroke is really good, but he didn't really start shooting threes for the team until, like, the second half of this season. And he's only taking about one attempt per game.

I'm still not really sold on it completely. His percentages are really good, though, right? 46% from the line. That's excellent. Pretty good two-point jumper as well. That's kind of my worry with a lot of these college guys. It's just like if you're not taking a lot, I still don't really know what to make of percentages. I mean, it's all about free throw to me.

That's like for big guys especially. Because like if you're Wendell Carter, you should be in the post. You're so much bigger everybody else. Well, I think in terms of the three-point attempts, it's like, I think back to Carl Anthony Towns at Kentucky, he shot only eight threes. He barely shot any two-point jumpers either. So I think with Wendell Carter, there's an opportunity for him to shoot more threes than he is. considering his current role where Bagley is being,

uses that floor space and guy. And that's why I have comparisons of Al Horford. Antonio McDice, most spates for him in the 2018 NBA draft guide, which you can find at NBA draft. Theringer.com. But Jonathan, we have a segment for you called Comp Rushmore, where you give us four possible outcomes for a player. I want to hear from you what your four comps are for Wendell Carter Jr.

Okay. I see the L. Horford comp, but I worry about the body because Horford right now is 245 at 31. Wendell is 260 at 19 and big guys tend to gain weight as they get older so I feel like

he'll have to change his body a bit to be that so to me like my first comp is like this is a compliment comp that's David West he feels very David Westish to me

and then my other comp I got how good would this guy to be now comp that's Elton Brand then I got empty stats comp better get better at defense

Carlos Boozer and then my final hate erific comp watch jeet son that's Jared Solinger a lot of dude guys in that list. Sully.

Oof. So you're saying he's going to be playing in China in a couple years. Yeah, just don't eat too much, Wendell.

Like, he's 260 already. Get to the gym. Oh, God. Well, the thing is, I look at his body, and I don't think he's, like,

heavy for his frame. He's just thick. He's thick, and the Al Horford thing, I see it definitely in how smart he is on the court. The weight thing,

as Charks brought up, it's a little different, and Al Horford was a little bit more, actually, a lot more explosive coming into the NBA. that's not how we conceive of him now. Like he's kind of this dude who just kind of runs on lead feet.

But I'd throw out another one. Like Greg Monroe, I think Wendell is a very smart passer. Yeah, that's the cautionary talecom, Greg Monroe. That's why I like David West, because I feel like David West is like a slower Al Horford. And that's kind of who Wendell reminds me of. So here about thing with Wendell, really.

It's like, yeah, he's a good player. But you can get a guy like Robert Williams or Daniel Gafford, a really athletic shot blocking center at like 15. And so, yeah, Carter is more skilled than those guys. But if I have a guy like Robert Williams, I'm going to get a point guard. He's going to screen for the point guard, then Wendell has to guard a point guard.

And my guess is my point guard against Wendell Carter is going to get more buckets than Wendell Carter against Robert Williams. That's a spread pick and roll. I like the basic of it. And that's how Boston College and St. John's beat a much, much better Duke team. I got him in ball screens,

got Biggs moving in space, and that's the NBA now. And to me, a guy like Wendell Carter, for as good as he is, give me a faster big, and I'll take my better guards and call it today. To your point, perhaps it depends so much on positional fit and roster fit and how the rest of the composition of the roster looks against that player. But at the same time, it's like Daniel Gafford isn't necessarily a guarantee to be a great defender. I think he has kind of heavy feet on the perimeter sometimes. Robert Williams, there's the question with his kind of instincts on that end of the floor, his ability to play disciplined defense. whereas with Carter, I just, I don't as much have those questions.

I think the basketball IQ is there. I think the ability to read the floor and make decisions is there. Perhaps it's the type of thing, well, yes, he's 260 pounds, but give him NBA level training to improve his athleticism. Wendell Carter is the type of guy that with that level of training, he can reach another level on defense more so than he already has him. Do you think he could ever be a guy who switches screens or he's always going to be a hedge guy? Yeah, I think he can switch screens and be comfortable.

I don't think he's necessarily going to be a lockdown, you know, guys. against guards and wings, but how many big men really are? Right. If you can get like spot duty, a guard, I don't think Wendell Carter is going to necessarily fail. He's too smart of a defender, just a guy who understands

and is comfortable with his own instincts and his own body to be able to do that. I'm kind of team Robert Williams. So like I think I would rather have him than Carter if I were picking, you know, anywhere past number 10 in the draft. So you're saying in other words, in a theoretical world,

you have like the number seven pick and the number 15 pick. You'd rather take another guy at seven and hold off and wait for a Robert Williams. Correct. Like Phoenix basically. Yeah, exactly. Phoenix will probably end up getting three great draft picks. And I would rather have Robert Williams be one of those guys if they do intend on getting a big. I just think those two guys.

Gafford I like, you know, Williams I like. I just feel like those two have significant bust potential. Whereas with Lyndall Carter, I just see very little, very little chance that he's going to be a flat out bust in the NBA. I have one more question for you, K.O.C. Do you think Wendell Carter can be the best big to come out of this draft? No, because I think DeAndre Aten is the guy. Right answer. But after that, though. Yeah, sure. I think so. Who would you guys pick is the best big after Aiton? I'm a Geron Jackson guy. Michigan State. Give me a great Isaac. I just think a lot of the arguments for Carter are the same as your arguments for

Jaron Jackson. That's the way I feel arguing Carter. Oh, to me, Jackson is a much better like perimeter athlete in space. He's a different level of guy moving on the perimeter. That's why I feel like, for sure. I like Jackson above him. I just think it's the basketball IQ part and the more shore shooting ability

for those guys makes me a little bit more comfortable. Isaac, I get to hear your thoughts on Bagley versus Carter. Sure. First of all, it's actually a really interesting debate because they look very similar on paper. They do not look similar at all when you watch them in person. But it kind of reminds me of when I worked in music, when I would work with musicians, there's like two types.

One would be like a person who understands how to play and they would play really well, but they don't actually know what they're doing. They'd be like, oh, I'm playing this, I'm playing that, but they can't actually voice it. They don't actually know which notes they're playing or what cadence or what intervals they're playing. And then another type of musician who understands how to play well and knows what well means. And I think it's that kind of debate. Marvin Bagley is he's good. He knows how to play.

He obviously understands how to play basketball, but Wendell Carter knows exactly what he's doing. Danny, as you said, he was a straight-A student, right? He was an honor roll student in high school. He would have gone to Harvard. This guy's a cerebral and intelligent player, but it's clear that Bagley has more of the athleticism, the physical tools to succeed on the next level.

So it's a philosophical debate, right? Who do you really want to take in the lottery, in the top five? If I'm in the top five, it's Bagley. If I'm in the top five, I'm swinging for the fences. No matter what team you are, yes. Isaac, I really appreciate the music analogy. Thank you. Speaking of music, Kevin, I know you want to get to prospects playing March Madness, but I want to ask you something about music.

What? Before you move out to Los Angeles, you have been dubbed Kevin O Concert because of your concert-going habits. But I've noticed since you've been here, you haven't gone to as many shows. Why is that? Well, let me tell you, Isaac. It's actually because I just got the new Sonos Home Theater with Sonos One speakers. So for me, it's like having a concert in my own apartment. I can control the music with my own voice and best of all, it's wireless. Truly, like, I've never, I've never had a more immersive music experience than I have with these speakers.

And last night, I actually took a break after watching basketball, and I watched Lady Bird. And all I can say is this is, over the sound of my own tears. I could still hear the crystal clear audio. It was like, it was seriously just like being in a movie theater or even, I think, being immersed in the movie itself. Oh my God, I'm crying now. Kev, that sounds wonderful, especially for someone like me, because as you and Micah Peters know very well, I hate going to concerts. Live music's undeniably inferior sound quality truly great to my ears.

Oh, come on, Isaac. I'm looking forward to going to my next concert, but Sonus is helping me get over the weight. And now you can enjoy that too because Sonos is offering the listeners of the Ringer NBA show 10% off of one order of $2,500 or less on any product on Sonos.com. Just use promo code, Ringer 10, capital Ringer 1.0 at Sonos. The offer is available for a limited time only and cannot be combined with other discounts or promotions. And now, back to draft class. One of the guys we have in our March Madness Guys to Watch in the Ringer NBA draft guide is Shea Gilges-Alexander, who Jonathan Charks actually wrote about on the Ringer.com this morning.

Charks, he's a guy that you had going 10 in our last mock draft that we did. I'm curious, for someone who hasn't read the piece, what's the gist of your take on Chege Alexander and his potential impact on Kentucky this month? So the gist of the piece is that Calipari changed his team around. SGA because he was actually one of his lowest ranked recruits. And what's crazy is four-star recruits in Kentucky usually transfer out. The last three he had never actually played. But Gilgis Alexander was so good.

He kind of made a team his own. And in the SEC tournament, Calipari is kind of basically like, okay, my team isn't that good. I'm giving SGA the ball, playing my shooters, letting them go to work. And that's how that season kind of turned around for them. And so now I think it gives them a chance to make a run in the tournament. Do I say this snowing is a pretty decent chance? Davidson beats them tonight, and we look really dumb talking about this tomorrow.

I don't think it changes the fact that Shea Gilgis Alexander is an appealing prospect, though. At 6'6 foot 6 foot wingspan, he is just really grinds in the defensive end of the floor. And he showed some signs of playmaking and scoring ability as this season has progressed, Danny. Yeah, especially recently. Like, I remember in one game,

just Dick Vital saying the word smooth at least like 50 times watching him play. That's just the operative word for him. He's just so much fun to watch, man. Right. And the most impressive thing to me is actually something very, very small. He can stop on a dime. And I remember talking to Marcus Elliott of P3,

one of like the leading sports scientists we have in the country. And one thing that came up when I talked to him was the rate of deceleration. And he gives a great example with Hardin. Hardin is a guy who is probably the best in the world at just stopping on a dime. And when you can do that, it doesn't matter how fast your defender can accelerate. If he can't stop when you stop, you're going to draw a foul.

And that's kind of how Shea Gildjus Alexander gets a lot of his points. He can draw a foul just because right when he stops, defenders are like basically draped all over him. And he's right there at the line. Yeah, I used my piece kind of like the baseball analogy. Like Calapar usually has guys to like 100 mile hour fastballs and just like throw it past you. But SGA, he's like Jamie Moyer, man, or Tom Glavin.

It's all changing speeds, getting you off balance, and just sneaking past you. His feel for the game at 19 is really, really high. His feel is extraordinary. His defensive ability, I think for him, it's just a matter of getting stronger and adding weight, which is why some of the comps I have are Sean Livingston, Patrick McCaw, Michael Carter-Wilames, guys who are a little bit on a leaner side. But that's okay because of his ability on offense, really. I think the question now, Jonathan, is that scoring ability.

But we saw last week against Tennessee. He just exploded 10 of 16 against Tennessee, 29 points, two of three from three point range, seven of seven from the free throw line. He can shoot. I think it's more about developing off the dribble. Right. I would say too, like right now in Kentucky, we see he has the ball in his hands. He gets to beat the star.

He looks great. But the start of the seats and he wasn't the guy and he wasn't quite as effective off the ball. And that's the question the NBA, obviously, is if he gets drafted in Philadelphia, for example, and he gets like seven shots a game, can he be effective? One of the guys who's a little bit less hype than Chey Gilger's Alexander, who's moved in a lot of lottery boards, is, Zayyre Smith, a freshman small forward from Texas Tech, super, super athlete. If he enters the draft, he's probably going to be one of the best athletes, Danny.

Yeah, it can be really hard to describe just how athletic Zaire is. You watch him, and his explosion is so effortless, it looks fluid. Like, you look at a guy like Gerald Green, and he looks like just a rocket or a missile just going off. But when you see Smith, it's more like a guy who just happens to be like hang gliding. he just stays in the air for forever. It's crazy. It's so amazing to watch him jump. But yeah, I mean, watching him play, it's like he's a very raw kind of unfinished product.

You don't really know what you're going to be getting out of him. You say he's a small forward, but he's kind of a lean, small. He plays the four in Texas. Yeah, exactly. He plays the four in college. So it's like, who is he in the NBA level? And we don't know how long his wing span is right now. He's unmeasured.

He's only six foot five. Looks like he probably has maybe a six ten, six eleven. in wingspan perhaps. He's quite long. He has a frame where I think he can add a lot more muscle. Charg says Zaire Smith, a guy with a strong tournament, somebody that you think should potentially test the waters on draft, somebody who could perhaps become a riser into the middle of the first round? I mean, I think he could.

I feel like it might make more sense to him to come back next year with Keenan Evans gone, the point guard, and he gets a bigger role in the offense. Because, yeah, right now he's so unskilled. Like, I think he needs those reps as the main guy in college. If he goes to the league, I worry, he might get slotted into a role, play a role, and not get the chance to like run pick and rolls and have the ball on his hands, as he did will at Texas Tech next year. He's definitely the type of guy. I think NBA teams would rather

have stay in college because he's somebody who, yes, he's shooting 42% from three, but the jumper is a little bit rigidy. He doesn't take a lot of attempts. He only has 31 attempts on the year. Oh, yeah, that's nothing. Exactly. So looking at the film, looking at his jump shot, you can see that he's incredibly underdeveloped as a shooter. So despite the fact, he's already a really good defender despite the fact, he's a good remod for his position, Despite the fact he's a pretty good finisher and all that, all those things you want, he busts his ass on the floor. You still need to have a jumper as a role player in the NBA. And right now, Zaire Smith is somebody who's going to need to develop that over the course of time.

Right. But the reason why we have him in our draft guide is because the first time you see him throw down a put-back dunk, you're not going to know what to do with yourself. Yes. Are the blocks, the blocks, man. Some of the blocks he gets are unbelievable for a guard. Yeah. Charks and I were talking the other day. And we were thinking of like, if he were in the NBA right now, how many guards would be better shot blockers than him?

Like, it's Wade, Josh Richardson, maybe? Not a lot. Not a lot. Yeah, I mean, you just don't see it. He just has such a unique profile. And I think with Zaire Smith, he's the type of guy where, yes, he glides through the air and he's just an incredible athlete. But he doesn't take it for granted. He consistently grinds and hustles and plays hard on that end of the floor.

And he has great instincts on defense as well where he has. a rare combination of tools that you don't find a lot. Sometimes you just have an athlete or you just have an high EQ player or just a guy who hustles sometimes. Zaire Smith is all of those things, all at the same time. So what would be your like ideal comp for him? Like is he like a more athletic longer Avery Bradley? I think a more athletic Danny Green, a little bit of a bigger Avery Bradley type of guy where he's somebody who still needs to improve his jumper as he's entering the league. But the ingredients are there for him to have a foundation of the defensive end of the floor. How about you, Charks?

Yeah, I would say the other thing to look at, like, he has a nice statistical nugget. He has a positive assist turnover ratio, which is really rare for, like, an elite athlete. And that, to me, is a good number because, like, no matter what role you have in the offense, are you making good decisions on the floor, do you make more good passes than bad passes? And that's what he does already. And to me, like, let's not put a ceiling on him. He has a very small offense right now.

He's, like, 19. Let's see him at the ball in his hands next year before he put. too many coms out there. And for the record, if you're a Texas bagman, we lost this guy at Texas Tech. This hurts my heart. Let's start paying our players better, people. Well, hopefully last night you watched Texas Tech face Stephen F. Austin, assuming they win that game. That means they play again on Saturday. So whatever time that game happens, make sure you check it out. Jonathan, I have a random question for you. Do you and your wife have any upcoming vacation plans? Yes, actually we do. Well, John, wherever you guys are going, this might be helpful because today's draft class is brought

to you by Hotel Tonight. Here's a fun fact. Unlike flights or other travel, hotel rates actually get cheaper at the last minute. In fact, Hotel Tonight partners with awesome hotels to help them sell their unsold rooms, which means you get amazing deals. All that takes is 10 seconds, three taps, and a swipe to book a room. No long, endless list of zillion hotel choices. Hotel Tonight only shows you the best deals of the best hotels. It's perfect for when you don't want to overthink things you're too busy looking at the Ringers 2018 NBA draft guide. Plus, you can book up to 100 days in advance in top destinations and up to a week in advance everywhere else. Book next week tonight. Book next month tonight. If you're a student, book your spring

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literally on the court. There's a gravestone there. Raleigh Alkins, guy that, Charks, you've had him in the lottery before in our mock drafts, but looking at other rankings at other websites, I don't even see him in the first round on some of those sites. So I'm curious, what is it about Raleigh Alkins, a guard slash wing at Arizona that you love so much? Four things. One physical profile. He's got those billy thick, wide shoulders and long arms. He's going to be pretty good on defense.

I mean, especially the way he plays with two. He plays very hard. Three, he's a decent enough shooter for guys going to defend. And the four, he's a smart player. Like, I like those four things together. If you're smart, you can shoot a bit. You defend hard and you got a good physical profile. You didn't be a good NBA player, I think.

Yeah. If you aren't really familiar with Pac-12 basketball, the dude is built like an American gladiator. Like, he's just, he's huge. He's 6-5-66, like 2.30 at this point. He kind of has that, you know, somewhere in between like a Lance Stevenson, Stanley Johnson frame. I love Alkins. He has a pretty jumper for a guy who is pretty much the prototype for a bully wing. My main thing is, holy crap, does he take stupid shots?

Like a lot of Arizona players. He is way too strong to be throwing up like high-arcing, off-balance floaters. And like, there are some shots where he goes into the lane and he doesn't even look at the rim. He just kind of throws it up there. And I'm just like, what are you doing, man? You're so strong. You're so gifted. I don't know.

I think Alkins is a good example of a guy where context is going to matter. Like, if you're scouting Raleigh Alkins, you're seeing him take these silly shots, which you're thinking on our team in the NBA, he's never going to take those. We're going to put him in a role where he's a spot-op shooter. and we enable him and encourage him to grind consistently in the defensive end of the floor, essentially be a 3-and-D type of guy. But the question you have to ask yourself is, will he fit into that role, or will he be the type of guy who still continues to want to do that? Because not all players have a role-player mindset.

I think Alkins is the type of guy, at least initially, to start his career, he's going to have to do that. And perhaps maybe, over time, he develops his ball handling, improves his decision-making, and becomes a guy that you actually put the ball in his hands. That's why in the NBA draft guide we have Eric Blutsoe is one of the comps, just kind of maybe a bigger version. Lance Stevenson is a comp as well. You mentioned earlier, Danny.

Charks, is that kind of the appeal where he has a foundation as a 3-indy guy with the potential to be a little bit better than that eventually? Yeah, I think so. I think like Arizona guys in general, I'm never very impressed with how they're being coached. I feel like Sean Miller is a guy who seems to not get the most out of his players. But I'm really curious to watch him play Calipar in the second round. That's going to be a super, super interesting game.

Maybe we'll see Alkins Guard SG. That'd be really fun. I don't think I'd go as far as ranking Alkins in the lottery, but I certainly think he should be a first rounder with his appeal on both ends of the floor. And then there's another guy, really not even probably a first round pick, but I think if Wichita State makes a little bit of a run, Landry Shamit, their wing slash guard could potentially ease into the up in the middle of the first round if they make a run. Wichita, I think if they get out of the first round, which is no given,

they're playing the younger Dan Tony, which if you haven't watched his analytics screed at a press conference, go back and watch that. Just Google Dan Antonio analytics. It's hilarious. And then if they go to the second round, they'll play Javon Carter in West Virginia.

That'll be a fascinating game for Shammett because Javon Carter is one of the best defenders in college basketball. He's in a press-in-full court. Presby-Riginal. And we'll see how he can do. I think Landry Shamish is the type of guy who there's injury concerns.

He's had foot injuries in the past. But he's somebody who I think can be just a solid guy. I think it's kind of like with Fred Van Vleet on the Raptors where he's somebody who, you just notice he knows how to play basketball, he plays hard. I think Shammett, granted he's a lot younger right now. He's only a sophomore. He's somebody who eventually could be one of those guys.

And honestly, like, he might not enter the draft. I mean, if he's only a late first round pick or an early second rounder, he's somebody who might decide to go back and play all four years. Danny, what are your thoughts on Shammett? It's funny that you bring up Van Vleet because when I watch Shammett, my first instinct is, huh, I can kind of see him as the Raptor's third guard. He's kind of Fred Van Vleet with Delaun Wright's kind of blanky frame. He's not a great athlete, but he's a guy who can find his ways into the lane. He kind of reminds me of like a Goren Dragich kind of guy

who probes around and stuff like that. I kind of worry about his strength, honestly. He's definitely a little frail right now. Certainly there's questions. I think with a big tournament, he should probably consider at least testing the waters on the draft, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if we see him back at Wichita State next season. Isaac, we need some grades, man. Yeah, this was a great show, guys. You guys, I think, did a great job. Starting with you, Kevin, you watched Lady Bird last night, you said.

I personally love Lady Bird. I think it should have won many more awards than it actually did. And you also mentioned that you cried. Which part did you cry at, Kevin? A lot of parts. I appreciate your vulnerability and openness, being unashamed of your emotions. Kevin O. Tender, you get an A. Thank you.

I appreciate it, Isaac. That means a lot. Charks, you wrote hard for my guy, Jared Jackson. You called him the second best big in the draft. But you didn't say he was the best big in the draft. So you get the second best grade, A minus. Nice. Chow, you gave an anecdote earlier in the show about Wendell Carter Jr.

being an honor roll student and a theater nerd. These deep cuts are why we have you on the podcast. You belong here, Danny Chow. This is your show. you get an A plus. This is a drastic improvement from the C plus that I got in my first appearance. Isaac's already on spring break as the teacher. He's getting out of here.

Well, right now, as we speak, Oklahoma is up 24 to 21. Trey Young has 10 points. Perfect from the floor. 4-4. Two from two. Let's go! Yeah, we're done here, and we're going to go watch that. This was fun, but watching Oklahoma and the NCAA tournament is going to be even funer.

Charks from Dallas, thank you for joining the show. Thanks for having me on. Danny, Isaac, here in Los Angeles. Thank you guys again. Yep, for sure. And thank you guys for listening. For extra credit, please check out the Ringer's 2018 NBA draft guide at NBADraft.com or the link is on my Twitter and Instagram pages.

You can definitely find it on the front page of TheRinger.com. Special thanks to Elon Musk for considering joining the show this week, but he just started a new media company. So unfortunately, we had to postpone. For now, please just keep submitting hashtag Ringer NBA questions and comments during March Madness, and our next mailbag will be the first week of April. Talk to you next Friday. Peace out.

Oh, guys, by the way, oh, use Big Manus Airball to free throw. It was so terrible. Are you watching the game while podcasting with us? John.