The Ringer NBA Show - Deep Dive on the Charlotte Hornets and Handing Out Mid-Term Grades | Ringer NBA University

Episode Date: March 10, 2021

Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, and J. Kyle Mann start by discussing LaMelo Ball’s impressive rookie season and the Charlotte Hornets' fun young core (1:20). Then they give out mid-term grades to six young guys across the league including James Wiseman, Nic Claxton, and Deandre Ayton (29:27). Lastly this week’s Draft Class feature is the G-League Ignite's Jalen Green (1:10:01). Tjarks talks about his piece on Green, his season so far in the G-League and his potential in the NBA. Hosts: Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, and J. Kyle Mann Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Football season is never over. The ringer NFL show has got all your football needs covered from free agency to the draft and so much more. Check out the ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Basketball is very good. Welcome to NBA University. I'm Kevin O'Connor here today. As always, is our distinguished professor of small ball Jonathan Charks and our dean of basketball video research, J. Kyle, man. How are you guys doing today?

Super. Just super duper. Thank you for that. I'm excited. Kentucky's about to make a single run to the SEC tournament. Don't talk some young players. It's always fun. Do you believe that in your heart? Do you really think that's going to happen? Absolutely not. Yeah, it's probably not going to happen. Sorry about that, Kyle.

You know, it's springtime. Hope is in the air. I think that I'm just going to be hopeful. Screw it. Negativity be damn. We're going to win it. We're going all the way. It's a good time to feel.

hopeful. And if this is your first time listening to Ringer NBA University on this show, we focus on the younger players in the league and their situations and the teams they play on. And so, on today's show, since it's a halfway point of the season, later on, we're going to hand out some midterm grades to a bunch of the younger guys in the league. We'll talk about DeAndre Aiton, Shegles Alexander, James Wiseman, and others. But first, for our main topic, we're talking about a rookie who'd get an A from everybody in the team he plays for. Let's discuss Lamello ball and the Charlotte Hornets. They're 17 and 18 entering the break, smack in the middle of a playoff race in the East

with a fun young team with a good little mix of some veterans in there too with Gordon Hayward. But lamello ball. I mean, he's been awesome. In his 15 games as a starter, he's averaging 21 points on 59% true shooting and 45% from 3 with 7 assists and 6 rebounds per game. That's all-star level production. Kyle, what has stood out to you the most about lamello ball? Well, you know, there's some big picture thoughts here about the Hornets that I think we'll get into.

But I mean, just in terms of like him, like specifically the things that have surprised me based on the way I've evaluated him the last couple years. His defensive activity and his anticipation has really surprised me, mainly the activity part because you can't do one without the other. But I mean, his hands have been really good jumping into passing lanes. It is the most Kyle man thing to start out with defensive activity with Lavello. it's it's but that kind of sums it up though it's not just passing it's not just scoring it's also defense yeah i mean we're kind of you know hammering something over the head that people have heard a million times like lamello is an unbelievable passing ball handling talent i was telling somebody the other day like i keep he's one of those players that like the hyperbole i just keep i keep i keep moving

the goalposts for like how i'm i'm like i don't i think he could be this good and then he keeps you know kind of proving it right like i think he's one of the most talented passer ball handlers I've literally ever seen. I mean, I mean that and I think that he's probably, I'll say something else. I think people probably, this isn't that wild, but he's the most talented player that Charlotte's in their franchise history going back to the beginning of the franchise, in my opinion. I mean, it's the low bar, but it's for sure true. Yes. 100% true. And with the mellow ball, man, it's the type of thing where at this point, Charks, when we were prepping for this podcast, you mentioned like how many young guys are there really that you would take over the mellow

right now? And I think if you're looking at players who are 23 and under right now, maybe Luca, Zion, Tatum. I mean, I'd take Lamello right now over Trey and John Morant. I think pretty comfortably. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's just so much bigger than those guys. Let me posit something. Let's say I called you and I'm like, I would trade you bam for Lamello ball.

What would you say? We're GMs. I wouldn't do it. I just think Lamello's position. That's what it comes back to is like point forward, six foot seven, six foot eight. he just makes everyone better. The offense flows through him. It's just a direct line.

If I have a good player at this position, I'm going to have a good team. All the other positions, it's more indirect. Like, I have a great point forward. Forget about it. It's like I giving up a quarterback. And I think with Lamello, his command of the game at this young age,

you know, Jah is really, really good. Trey is really, really good. Lamello is so different. Like you said, he's one of the most talented passers you've ever seen Kyle. And I think entering the draft with him, I mean, none of us had him ranked number one. So that was a mistake.

A lot of executives didn't have him ranked number. Many had him ranked outside the top five. Some said they wouldn't take him in the top five, which is crazy to say now. But with the Mello, I looked at his passing in Australia and at lower levels and felt he is an unbelievable passer, not an unbelievable playmaker. There was a difference at the time because of some issues with shot selection. He would often pull up around the end. elbow and take that bad floater that was a low percentage shot often contested too but he has

become a great playmaker already because the decision making the shot selection has already improved to a point that when you watch lamella ball he has lifted up and elevated all of his teammates including the veterans like gordon heyward those guys have such great chemistry together he's helped elevate miles bridges on the court i mean he already is somebody who enhances the talents of everybody around him and that's something that you don't say about many players until on their They're in their third, fourth, fifth season of their careers. He's different. Lamello's different.

I think the thing for me that, I mean, that I missed totally was just a jump shot. I was just not sure it was going to translate. The form was weird. The numbers weren't there. But he's stroking it. He's sitting threes at a really high number. And I think that opens up so much of the rest of his game. Like one, he's sitting jumped out so you got to guard him out there.

So he has room to run. And I think more importantly, when I was worried about him was like, if he's not shooting jumpers, he has to have the ball. it has to be the Lamello show, but he's hitting enough jumpers so he can play off the ball. That's the most cool to watch for me of the Charlotte is like

the ball moves around. He doesn't really play like Luca or Treg where it has to be Lamello all the time. I mean, Hayward gets a bunch of touches. Terry Rozier gets a bunch of touches. Everybody just gets to eat and he's really smart off ball too. Like he cuts really, really well.

He's just like a really, the basketball IQ and the ability to do everything with the jump shot. It just makes him such a well-rounded, really dynamic player. I think I was probably, of the three of us, probably the most confident about him. Maybe, I don't know, maybe I'm guessing on that because I kind of hedged on it. I was like, I think by far he's easily the most talented player in the draft.

That was my opinion. But I was like, these questions could pull him back a little bit. And I think what you're talking about, what you both are talking about, what the shooting is, and it makes us think about the way we look at these guys going forward. It's like when you look at a guy who has questionable shooting, like Lamello, who has odd mechanics, you have to scrutinize the sample. And with him, he has removed some of the, you know, dribble, like three or four plus dribbles and then shoot. I was watching him last night.

I was like, he was kind of, you know, rock or step kind of going back and forth. I was like, he would normally shoot this ball here. And then he would attack and get into the middle of the floor. He's just been doing that a lot more. And that has really helped his percentages. And you were talking about helping out different players. It's been across the board. I was even looking at some of like Malik Monks on assisted baskets.

Like his percentages have really jumped up. And it's just when you have a play, like this in your within your team it just it raises the tide it raises the floor absolutely does and sharks you mentioned how they're sharing the ball and the last 15 games is a starter with lamello you know devante graham hasn't played all those games only played five of them but in those 15 games lamello is leading the team with 87 touches per game but you do have rosier getting 66 a game you have heyward getting 62 a game and then devonte graham when he was playing was getting 62 a game so they are sharing the ball it's not like

like the mellow is dominating the ball dribbling it, you know, six, seven times per possession. He's, you know, he's actually dribbling it only three point seven times per possession if you want the exact number from NBA.com. And that's pretty low compared to other guys that handle the ball or touch the ball as much as he does. And that really speaks to just how Charlotte with a guy like the mellow ball, with a star like him, why when you're talking about like theoretical, you know, player value rankings, you know, bam or lamello. or Tatum or Lamello, that needs to be factored in with the fact that this is somebody who, unlike some of the other great young guards in the league,

he can play at a high level without the ball. We have seen him as a cutter. We've seen him as a spot-up shooter. We've seen him in a myriad of different roles. Even that, you know, I think the defining moment of the season for me so far with Charlotte is that Malik Monk game winner. The N-1 against the Sacramento Kings, awesome played by Monk during a great game by him.

Lamello gave up the ball. The unselfishness that he has and the character and enthusiasm with which he plays with feels like it has really already affected this entire team. They play with love for the game. I love to watch these horn if they're maybe number one league pass rankings right now or pretty high up there at least. This is a fun, good, well-rounded team right now. Yeah, and KOC, like you're talking about time of possession.

The one I look at a lot is time of possession. And his is like six minutes, whereas like Trey and Luke are like nine. Yeah. And it's really funny because, you know, all the stuff coming in, the whispers about Lamello and Laveur and chemistry. It's like, everybody wants to play with Lamello. And I think, I think you'll see that a lot. Guys love playing with that because he passes and gives the ball up. I think, like compared to Luca and Shrey, it's hard to play with those guys because they're holding it so much.

But Lamello makes it, you remember the whole thing with the Wizards a couple years ago, everybody eats? Like, that's happening in shot right now is everybody's eating. Everyone's dribbling. It's just a fun team. And that's with a guy who could. be somebody who handles the ball in a heliocentric offense, the popular turn from Ben Taylor, Seth Parnell, all those, you know, stats guys. One thing, let's go back to the defensive aspect, Kyle, real quick.

With Lamello, I want to talk about his defense real quick. He's one of six players this season who's racked up over 100 deflections after entering the break. Yokic, Covington, Simmons, McConnell and band leader, the others, all five of them, smart, you know, good defenders. Lamello's averaging 3.2 deflections per game as a rookie in the five years of NBA.com hustle stat data. No other rookie had over three deflections per game, the closest for Simmons and Lonzo at 2.9. McKell Bridges with 2.7, Matisse Thibel with 2.6.

Deflections isn't some end-all be-all stat, but I do think it is indicative of a player who has a high IQ and a feel for getting in the passing lanes and being a playmaker on the defensive end of the Florida. So, Kyle, like, what is your evaluation of Lamello early on in his career right now? Well, a lot of what Charlotte is doing is kind of that pressing uphill to, he's used to play in this stylistic way, is that, like, you know, pressuring uphill to get deflections rather than sagging back and playing, like, positional defense where you know you have, like, great room protection. I mean, Charlotte overall, it's an interesting dynamic between the deflections, like we said, he, he's demonstrated that he's good for this. and his IQ has kind of flipped both sides. Like, you know, he's shown really good spatial intelligence. Court mapping.

That's another nerdy one that I've seen thrown around a lot. That's a good one. His sense for where players are and where they're going to be is great, even though he's not like what I would. What is court mapping? I've not, like, explain that to me real quick. That's one where it's just people, it's sort of like spatial sense is, as I understand it.

Somebody could probably hit us up and give a better understanding. It's just kind of your sort of constant awareness of your of your surrounding on the court like where everybody is. So you think of some guys are basically. Okay. Yeah, like a player like Larry Bird had great. Even though he was,

you know, not a super athlete, he was incredible at shooting passing lanes because he just had a good sense of where the ball was, where it was going to be, you know, seeing the game in triangles, things like that.

We were talking about one of the things about Charlotte that I think going forward is going to open the door for kind of questions about where they go from here. You know, okay, now you've got this talented player. You haven't had anybody like this before. We were talking about historically their easy offense has been horrendous.

Like they've been really, really bad at the rim since like 2004. Kyle, that style is from cleaning the glass. Like, they've never ranked in the top 20 in percentage of shots finished at the rim in their history of the franchise. That's insanity to me. That's insane. I mean, the majority of them, they're in the bottom five. I mean, there's a bunch of 30s on there.

They're dead last. So it's just to me that demonstrates a lack of. talent. So you have some talent now. So you're going forward. We were talking about how they're fun, but they also are going to have to start moving into this phase of asking some questions about the talent that is a little bit older than Lamello. And that is like they're giving up a lot, a lot, a lot of open threes the most in the league. So it's like you have this personnel. Lamello is not really a ball pressure guy. You know, the deflections are fun. And that can distract people from what's important. And that is, you know, just keeping guys away from the lane so that you can shut down

offenses and things like that. I don't think that he's super switchable at this point. I don't know. Do you guys ever see him developing into like a quality ball pressure guy? Are they going to need to import more of that to improve? Like, how can they improve on that front? Well, I think one, the weird number that stood out to me is the number one league in zone defense by a mile.

So like they're 15% of their possessions are on zone. Most teams are below five. So I just wonder what the correlation is between the ball pressure stuff and like open threes and you're playing zone all the time. And that seems a little unsustainable to me. And then the other thing, yeah, I mean, LaMello, I think he'll be a good team defender, but point of attack defense, I don't think he has just speed to really do that at a high level. And right now, they don't necessarily have the personnel to take on that role.

And that'll be a question with them moving forward. You have Malik Monk, who, you know, he's been better defensively than he ever has been in his career, I think. I mean, everybody talks about the offense. He's been great on that end of the floor. since January 30 of averaging 17 points on 44% of 3, 20 plus points, six times. That guy's been awesome on offense, but also inside some really good moments on defense, too. He did a great job with point of attack defense against Devin Booker, but still with his size and his light frame,

he's not going to be one of those stoppers at the top of the key. And, you know, DeVante Graham on the smaller side too. So they do need to find that defender that's the perfect fit next to La Mello ball. but, you know, I do think with Lamello, there is versatility and there is an untapped potential because he does have the fluidity. He does have the quickness. And maybe over time, it's about mastering fundamentals. Because for him, he has never really, by understanding, he's never really been coached at a, like, you know, when it comes to stuff like that, when it comes to discipline. And that's what we're seeing under Barago.

And that's one of the reasons why I think this is working so well for Charley and for Lamele. is he was being held accountable early in the year. Our first show of NBA University, we talked about Borago's comment saying he's not going to start, you know, a player who's making too many mistakes on the defensive end of the floor. And of course, the Devante Graham injury helped open up some more playing time

for Lamello and a starting opportunity. But fact is, is we have seen progress with shot selection. He's not taken that silly floater from the elbow I mentioned earlier quite as much. And defensively, I think he's been pretty disciplined on that end of the floor, in comparison to what he's,

was in the past. So clearly, Lamello is a learner and somebody who was open to change. And I think these are, you know, human qualities that, you know, bode well for improvement, you know. And so for Lamello with his length and quickness, I don't think it's inconceivable that he can become a good or high level, a point of attack defender Kyle. Interesting floater class we have this year. Have you all noticed that? It's like Haliburton, incredible floater game. Maxi, incredible floater game quickly.

Lamello. Quickly, too. Yeah. Just interesting. The floaters really growing up. I mean, Jah last year, Brandon Clark, like it's a great shot if you can get it.

I mean, more people have it probably every year. We've talked a little bit about Malik Munk today. Are you guys buying this improvement that we've seen in his third year now? I mean, I think it's what we always was, right? I think we always saw the talent. I feel like the issues in Charlotte with him were not really on the court.

He had that really weird and kind of scary suspension last year for, or was a schedule one narcotics. Like, I mean, he's always had talent and he's a great sixth man. I think he, I mean, as long as he's taken to court, I think he'll be a good player. To me, Malik Monk is not, you know, I think you have different types of players

when you're building a team. I think you have guys who are like, okay, you're going to be the literal, like if you're building the house, you've the literal foundation. Okay, we have a Luca, we have a LeBron. The rare types,

if you're trying to build a championship. And then you have the guys who are like the walls and the framework and things like that. And then you have, guys who are like, you're a pretty piece of furniture that's going to help the overall vibe of our house. I feel like Monk is much more of the ladder type of thing. So he's like the pool equipment. He's like all the cabanas in the back. Yeah, yeah. I just feel like monk is the type of guy who he

definitely is like context dependent. Like he's he's nuanced that you that you stack on top of like your implied things that you have on your roster already. I mean he's and he's responded. I mean, He's obviously a high-level talent, but he doesn't, he kind of relates to somebody we're going to talk about later, in my opinion. But, I mean, career high, true shooting percentage at 60.9. Yeah, I mean, he just, he's a guy that you just plug in there and you're like, hey, get buckets. That's the situation because there is kind of a threshold with him where if you ask too much of him, his efficiencies can kind of slide, in my opinion. But, I mean, Uber talent in that first area, for sure. And the nice thing about Charlotte is they just have so many good young players.

because I was kind of breaking down the roster before we did this pod. What stood out to me, so they hired Mitch Cupchack, the old Lakers GM, three years ago now, and pretty much all his picks have been good.

So he picked Miles Bridges, PJ Washington, lamello balls, three great first round picks where they were taken. Three hits. Second round picks, Devonte Graham,

fantastic pick. He got Cody Martin, who's been a good player. He got J. McDaniels in the 50s, who's been a decent player for them. He's just knocking out picks left and right.

And that's what they missed in the last 15 years. is they would just blow picks constantly. And now, like, Mitch Cupchuck, he hits doubles when he has doubles, singles when he has singles. And he got a home row with the mellow ball. It's like every time up to bat, he's knocking out picks. That's really the most impressive part to me. And I feel like all of those guys that you listed, especially the first round picks, Miles Bridges and PJ Washington,

those guys feel like keepers to me. For sure. They both fit very, very, very well around lamella ball. And I know, you know, I'm glad you mentioned PJ Washington charts because, you know, he had that big 42 point game against the Sacramento Kings. It felt like a flash of what he could potentially be offensively on his best nights. He's somebody who I feel like on both ends of the floor. The fit is there for him to be a long-term piece on this team.

The defense still needs to improve a bit. The offensive consistency needs to improve. But even if he is a streaky guy on offense, I don't mind having those guys if I'm a team. if I'm a team that need somebody to pop on a certain night, he's not going to be one of those guys that you lean on every night, but he's somebody who can provide something where maybe some nights he goes off for 25, 30 points. Other nights, maybe he'll settle in around 10 to 15.

It's okay to have those guys who are your variables and your X factors. So with PJ Washington, he had an interesting little college career. Kyle, how have you seen PJ Washington's... That's the way of putting it. Yeah. Interesting little college career, didn't he? I mean, so like since his college career, How have you seen his game develop and, you know, where do you want to see it go from here?

I mentioned the inconsistency aspects. Well, the big thing for him was it's been an interesting evolution for PJ because I feel like he came in and was like, I need to become, I don't know. I find it interesting to track guys who are like, I really want to play on the perimeter. But really, it seems like there's been this space for guys if you can play that small ball five role. It's like he's had sort of a back and forth between developing his perimeter skills and maintaining that interior kind of identity. But for him, he came back to Kentucky to improve his catch and shoot, like pick and pop.

Like, you got to be able to shoot from the perimeter. And he did that. He showed some more glimpses of passing out of doubles and things like that. This was an interesting stat for me. Did you guys see this stat I put in the dock about him, his positional, like their offensive efficiency? I couldn't believe this. And I double checked it.

Charlotte, when PJ placed, Barago before the season said he was going to do this. And I was like, please God do this. when he plays the four, they are at 107.4 points per possession. And when PJ plays the five, they are at 118.1. That's a pretty big jump. And they'll throw some lineups out there. One of the lineups they threw out there was like Lamello, Monk, Hayward, Miles, and PJ. That offensively.

That's vicious. Yeah, I mean, they're not leaning on that one heavily. I mean, they'll mix in Rozier, obviously, and Graham when they can. But they can put some offense of lineups out there that are just, wild. I think for PJ, what I was going to ask you guys was, you know, they've been putting him in these positions where he's, you know, I think it's good, it's good for him to operate from the high post because I think he can attack fives off the dribble from there. He's a lot better from there than he is, like, attacking from spot ups because he's a little stiff. He's not super flexible.

Who do you guys think is going to be more likely to be a part of their, like, who do you think that they would be more likely to flip for something they super, super, super need? between, I'm not saying they would do this, but Miles or PJ, what do you think? If you had to pick, if you were, if you were their genius. Because he does have some things. It's like, you know, PJ has some areas where he could grow. And I was just curious if they could maintain their course and still, I don't know, I'm not trying to blindside you all with that question.

If you're power ranking, you know, Charlotte's players, they're young guys. You'd want to keep, obviously, Lamello's number one, goes without saying. That's a no-brainer. After that, really, I mean, this is like a kind of a cop-out answer here. Kyle, but is it actually like a 2A, 2B scenario with Monk in Washington where it largely is dependent on who you get back? And the reason why I say that is because, you know, the past week I've reported, you know, and others have reported that they have interested in Nicola Vouchovic from Orlando, 30-year-old center. That's what I was trying to set you up for there, KSK. So with Vooch, you know,

he is that playmaking hub at the big man position around the elbow area. And if you're getting Vouch, it makes more sense to give up PJ Washington. If you're getting a wing player, you know, maybe it makes more sense to give up Miles Bridges in that scenario. So I'd probably give Bridges the edge in most scenarios. Love it. I mean, Charcotts, I know you love. I know you love Bridges here, KFC. I know you love Bridges.

And I think all the good youth here in Charlotte, um, it makes me wonder about the interest in a 30 year old in Nicola Vouchabitch. How should Charlotte be operating right here? Because they do have a special talent in the mellow on his Ricky Connors. on his rookie contract, who I would argue, if you're ranking players based on production this season alone, he's been one of the 40 best guys of basketball. The best 40 or 50 best guys in the NBA this season alone, like 20 points, you know, as a starter,

as a starter, like I said earlier, 21 points on 59% true shooting with seven assists and six rebounds, limited turnovers, impactful defense. That's one of the, that's a borderline all-star right there. And if you have that guy on a rookie deal, there is some logic to maybe surrounding that young player with veterans and making a run like the Celtics did with Jason Tatum and with Jalen Brown. They went to three out of the last four Eastern Conference finals. They made a run with a lot of veterans. So I can understand the logic with Charlotte being involved or actually thinking about this. But where do you guys think they should go?

What should be the mindset here when you have a talent like Lamello? I guess I'm more like I get, I feel like. like Michael Jordan's always been impatient when he has even a halfway decent team. But to me, there's just no reason to rush. You've got a bunch of good young players. Your franchise guy is what, 18 or 19? This is a five, six year. Let's build a sustainable winner for the first time ever in history of this franchise. I mean, you're drafting really well. You're going to have a pick in the teens. There'll be good players there. To me, it's just a boom, slow, steady. Don't give up bridges. Don't give up Washington. Let's just build a really sustainable winter for a long time.

because if you're, you got a lamello ball, all of a sudden your timelines have changed, right? All of a sudden, it's like, oh, yeah, we're going to have to keep this guy in 2027 and have a championship team by then, because he's going to be that level of the player. Let's just slowly build this thing in having for 15 years. There's no reason to rush now in year one, I don't think.

Is there anybody off the top of your head that you think would be that could inject, let's say their pick is in the teens that could quickly inject some, could play right away for them. Does there anybody that comes to mind? Well, I think for me, I look at their team, their centers are terrible.

Like, we've even talked about that. Like, I would say Zeller and Beambos probably what a bottom five center combination in the league, like bottom three maybe. Like, I would just try to draft a young center if I was just picking for the fit of rest of the roster. But I got the best player available at that point, I think. I think we're on the same page there, Charks, especially makes sense with the Vouchavish's interest that he would be a center that you might want to target if it's an aging guy, but definitely should be thinking about that in the draft.

over the next five, six years with a mellow. Like I said, he's already one of the best 40 or 50 best guys in the league this season. What needs to happen with his development for him to reach top 15, top 10 status? What are the holes in his game that need to be filled? Well, I think you mentioned it earlier. Is it like how capable is he, we've kind of had similar conversations like about Hallibur. And it's like how capable is he of occasionally putting on that he, eccentric. Holy crap

Kentucky came out of me just now. Did you hail eccentric? Do you have a Kentucky accent, Kyle? I can't even tell, honestly. I can't either. I think you can hear it sometimes. Like when I say horses or... What would be a Kentucky accent?

Yeah, what are the words? Horses. It's a good one. Well, it kind of turns on and off. Like, my wife always observes this whenever I see my family. It's like, hey man, how you doing? You know, it's like that.

Like, I can do it effortlessly. Like, yeah, I do it in my videos sometimes. That ain't going to work in the NBA, fellas. I'm going to need one Kentucky Kyle answer each episode. Just give me like a minute and a half. I think I'll answer it as a Kentucky and you want me to do that? Okay. I think La Mella, if he's going to, if he's going to transition into a heliocentric type

player and move into that top all-star status, he's going to have to prove that he can consistently score and then flip his score and gravity into creation for his team page. that's what the best players in the world do. So, you know, talking about total offense, raising that up so that the Charlotte Hornets can benefit as a result. That was fantastic. Charks, now you have to respond to the Texas accent. Charles, first generation, Texas.

Y'all, I got nothing. Like, I got nothing for that. I would agree. I guess, like, go back to the point. I think, yeah, for Flamello, I want to see him to put some weight on. He's real scrawny right now. I think that'll help him finish around the rim. Look at that two point percentage.

Maybe get to like 200 pounds, 205. Just carry some more weight, I think. You know, get to be bigger. And that'll help him score. That's kind of what I was jokingly getting at. Yeah, I think those things are important for him to up his offense and the shooting and things. Yeah. For sure.

And drawing files at the rim, that's the difference between so many good and great scores or great and elite scores is the ability to draw foul and live at the free throw line. And with Lamello, he's been way, way better at getting to the basket than I expected him to be as a rookie, taking 40% of his shots at the rim this season. Once the falls start coming from him, those points per game are just going to go up. When you get those easy points, already 80 plus percent from the free throw line, it's, it's amazing how good he is already. It's just genuinely is amazing how good Lamello is already. It's funny because you're talking about top 10 player. I'm like, yes, did it happen?

Like at this point out, I'm like, he's going to be a top 10 player one day. I didn't see it coming at all. I think that'll happen for sure. Oh, yeah, you were talking about free throw production. I looked this up for a video the other day. It's like 28 of the top 30 scores in the NBA get to the free throw line and put up four attempts per game at least, four more. So it's a requisite if you're going to be a big time score.

All right, that's enough of the Hornets. Next up, we're going to be sharing some midterm grades. And then we're going to break down a potential top five pick in Jaylin Green. And maybe we'll do some more impressions too coming up after the break. All right, guys. So it's the halfway point of the season. And then today, since this is NBA University, we're going to be handing out midterm grades, six players still in their rookie contracts, and we're going to discuss their games and their

teams, and we'll each going to present two of them. Charks, you want to start us off? Yeah, I'm going to go with my guy, Patrick Williams, Chicago Bulls, number four overall pick. I mean, he kind of rose really fast last year in the pre-draft process, didn't start at Florida State. And he's pretty much started the whole season in Chicago. He's playing a big role and I guess a playoff. I'm not sure where they're exactly they're ranked.

And to me, he's been one of the most impressive rookies. He started thinking about what he's done now as a rookie and projecting him forward. I mean, I think he's a clear A to me, Patrick Williams. When you look at his numbers, there's just no real holes in his game, right? He's scoring efficiently. He's at 47%. He's shooting threes, 39%.

He's rebounding, five rebounds. 0.7 steals, 0.8 blocks. He guards the best player on the opposing team most 9%. the forward spots. And I look at this guy. He's very athletic. He's very big for a forward. He's 6-8-2-30.

He can guard multiple positions. He can shoot. He's a really smart player. You watch him play. He doesn't play like a rookie, really. He's very under control. He's part of their bull system. And I'm watching him.

It kind of reminds me a lot of the Andre Hunter last year, where you can see the tools, but he's probably ahead of where Hunter was. And he's three years younger than Hunter. He's only 19. He's one of the youngest players in the NBA. And I look at Patrick Williams. I see a guy, he's going to be, I think the ability,

we talked about us with PJ Washington in the last segment where there are nights where he doesn't do much, but he still fills a role well. That's the thing is on the nights where he's not scoring, he's still guarding, he's spacing the floor, he's moving the ball. But then he can explode for offense sometimes. So I look at him as just like the next really good big wing guy.

I see a future star at number four. was a great pick for Chicago. I just think the sky is limit for this guy. He kind of gives me some vibes of like a little like Jalen Brownie. Like he could be a little bit like that in terms of his development. But I like that comp too. Like he's, I guess my mind is just gravitating towards really intelligent, really big guy. Like, and I'm also noticing that like around the rim, he's really efficient in terms of like on the offensive glass.

What do you think that he is? What in your opinion, have you shifted at all, I guess? Have you like dialed it into like I was here and now I'm here at this more like optimistic level or has has your projection of him changed at all since you're right? I was always a big William's guy. I had him top five and I think he was a top five player in this driving. That's pretty clear now. I just think the tools were always there. Would you move up to like number two though?

No, because the guys ahead of them are playmakers. I think that's the one thing he doesn't have, which is like I like the Jalen Brown comp to a bit where he's not a guy you can run the offense through. I think he's a number two, number three option. whereas like Lamello, Halliburton, those are guys you can create shots for other people. I guess the one hole in his game. No, I mean in a redraft charts. Yeah.

You know, would you move him up? We know you like it. We know you like it. You wrote a big feature on him last year, which was awesome. I would say, for sure,

I'd have Lamello and Halliburton over him. And then, Ant Man, I go back and forth. Ant Man, I still believe in the talent, but man, it's not really been there this year.

So I'd say three or four with Ant Man. I think to your point there, Charks with Patrick Williams, the go-to scoring potential is there. I'm not sure he'll ever be a playmaker, but the go-to scoring potential is there with his fluidity off the dribble. This season, he's taken 85 dribble jumpers and only seven of them have three-point have been three-pointers. The far majority are from two-point range.

78 of them have been pull-up twos, but he's hitting 45% of those. That's a really high percentage, especially for a rookie. And he's got the moves, he's got the fluidity, he's got the strength. And he doesn't take a ton of threes, but it's so easy to project that area of his game developing. He's hitting 39% of his catch and shoot threes, 79% of his free throws. He's got touch. He's got the ability to pull up.

I just imagine like four years from now, five years from now, when this guy is taking pull up threes instead of pull up twos, there's superstar potential there, Charks. And you wrote about it in that story last year. He's somebody who has an elite work ethic. doesn't he? Yeah. I mean, everyone around him, like, he had one of the most stellar, like, everyone you talk to. This guy is awesome. Everyone just loves him. I mean, like, I had like this doc of like nice things people said about Patrick Williams. It was like a page and a half long of like, this guy's just the absolute best. And he's just very mature for that thing. Not only is he very

young. He's just very mature. He doesn't carry himself like a star. I guess if you really want to get into it, I'm a big believer in the younger brother. So he had two older brothers. I think that's such a huge advantage for these basketball players, right? Because if you're a big time basketball player growing up, you're just dominating all the time because you're bigger and faster than everyone. And it's easy to get a big ego. But when you have older brothers, you're just not, right? They're keeping you in check.

They're making you work harder. They're constantly humbling you. And you just have to learn. You kind of view yourself differently as opposed to being an older brother who just dunks on everything all the time. I was a little child. Somebody should do like a study on that because I do think that that like ingraines adaptability into players. Pascal Seacum, younger brother of other college basketball players apparently. Michael Jordan was a younger brother.

Not that those two are like a fair. Yeah, I mean, it's like a, it's a, it's a, it's a thing where you are forced to be to have adaptability because you're playing against a player. You can't lean on anything like you were saying. I think leaning on convenient traits that are often physical. that are often rooted in, like, athletic traits can really, really stunt growth. That is a really fascinating point. For me, I think that the most curious, I was curious that he hasn't, like, had any post-up touches this year.

I think, like, he could turn into somebody that could get his own offense from, like, you know, ISO situations like that. But for me, he has that crossover between, like, three-four switchability. And some of those players in the league are, like, where are some of the toughest players to stop. Like, we've talked a lot about, like, Jimmy Butler, the Jimmy Butler's, the LeBron's. Like, it's hard to find those guys that are quick enough and strong enough to bother those players.

And I think he has a lot of potential on that front. I think that's a good point about three, four. I think this is the question for Chicago going forward to have to figure out. We talked about this last time. We know about Patrick Williams. But these numbers just stood out to me. So when he's playing with Lori, they're minus 18. When he's net rating, when he's playing without Lori, they're minus two.

I just think that just shows like when he's playing at the four and he has Garrett Temple or Otto Porter, this is more flexible lineup. When you're playing Lori at the 4, Patrick at the 3, it's just you're bigger, you're less flexible, or just less ball movement. That's just my, I think, is what's going on there. So when you're building this thing out if you're Chicago, and you're trying to maximize the development of Patrick Williams

and Zach Levine and this younger core you have, I've reported this past week that that is young as somebody, it doesn't seem like their general manager wants to move. It seems like Wendell Carter Jr., same thing there, that they want to keep those guys. Larry Markanin seems like the guy that they could potentially move. Is that for their best moving forward, sharks? I don't know.

It's tough because I've never been a big Lori guy. I think you're much higher on him than I am, right? KOC. So, like, sell me on, I've just never been a big gut believer in him. I mean, the scoring talent is there. Yeah. With Larry Markan, like, there's an ability for him to be a versatile piece for you with size.

You can run off screens and handoffs and do a bunch of funky stuff on the perimeter. And that might cause matchup issues for the defense. As for the fit in Chicago, I'm less certain about that. I don't know if the blend there with Larry Marketing alongside Patrick Williams and all these other guys that you mentioned is great. So I think there's some reshuffling that can be necessary for the Bulls to maximize what they have in Patrick Williams and Zach Levine and Kobe White and all their young guys. Kyle, let's move on to your first player for midterms.

So today I want to tell you about Shay Gilges. Oh, surprise. A Kentucky guy. Oh, yeah. Guys, the Judds taught. that love can build a bridge. But what they failed to say was that Shea Gildes Alexander can too if he stands between two land masses and he outstretches his preposterously long arms. Shea, the lanky and swanky third year guard for the OKC Thunder, the man whose jersey

has more fine print on the back of it than some contracts, is relishing the opportunity this year to further expand his production after multiple contributors have moved on and as the franchise focuses on being young and crappy. This year, he is averaging 23.4 points for game on 62.7% true shooting, both career highs. He's getting to the line more and he's hitting 41.2% from three at a higher volume. He's also doubled his assist percentage. And his box plus minus has jumped from 1.7 to 4.4. He also grew some really cool dreads. Now, the book on SGA has been that, I like didn't take a breath there in that first part. the book on SGA has been, you know, he's a score first, slippery, elusive down here he'll player with, you know, incredible craftiness around the rim. And that has stayed true. This is a really amazing stat. Among players carrying at least 100 pick and roll possessions and that 71 guys in the NBA so far, Shea has the second highest score frequency in the NBA. So downhill, he is still a monster. But the issue is that everybody knows that. Like everybody knows that. I have access to that on Synergy and so do teams.

when they got my grade for him, I think is going to be contingent on. I'm going to grade him favorably based on the way things have gone, but I think the jury is out because, you know, in the playoffs, Houston knew that. And their switchability with their size of their switchability, you know, they had a lot of guys that were longer and faster that could get in his way. They cut his rim production in half. So for me, I think that, you know, he's not going to have a chance to sort of like prove himself on that front in a playoff series anytime soon.

But this season, he's increased his efficiency from three and through 30 games. He's improved all of his jump shooting off the bounce. And for that reason, I'm going to give Shay Gilgis Alexander a 91% on his midterm. Oh, wow, very precise grade. I like the number grade. Very nice. I appreciate that. Yeah.

Questions. Well, well said with Gildes Alexander, Kyle. And I think I'm glad you mentioned the pick and roll scoring efficiencies. He's very good in that area. and I would say this year with Oklahoma City, the assist numbers would be far better if he had better teammates around him too. I've been impressed by his playmaking.

It seems like some of the Chris Paul influence has been embedded in him and the way in which he operates in the pick and roll. In this season, I was looking at his numbers this morning before recording. NBA.com has a stat called potential assists. And Gildes Alexander this year is averaging 6.2 assist per game. he has 13.8 potential assist, which means 7.6 shots per game that could be assists have been missed by teammates.

Of the 35 guys this season to log at least 10 potential assists this season, SGA ranks 34th in those assist opportunities being converted into made baskets. Only John Wall has been worse. Unsurprisingly, on the Rockets this year, one of the worst teams in the league. but with Gildes Alexander, I don't think there's any issue with passing accuracy. There's no issue with feel or timing. It's just largely a matter of the supporting cast around him. And with SGA, I would predict moving forward as Oklahoma City's talent around him improves,

you will see him maintain that elite scoring efficiency in the pick and roll, but also get possibly even better overall because the threat of that passing ability is just going to enhance overall who he is as a player. He could be special. He could be. KOC, but haven't we seen this movie before with Oklahoma City point guards? And I'm like, oh, man, if they ever had spacing around them, they have a lot more assists,

and then the spacing just never came. So hopefully that does, but we'll see. Yeah, well, the spacing was never allowed to, you know, that's a whole different. His rigidity is on a whole different planet, I would say, than the other people that you're talking about specifically. But yeah, I think you're right. I think he has three pieces here. you know, that shooting playmaking downhill pressure sort of triangle that I think that you want your like lead initiator scores to have, you know, the shooting has come along. He's always lean that way a

little bit more. The downhill is obviously there. The passing, like you said, I think, I think that it's improved. And it's been an interesting thing where I feel like, okay, C fans are like excited about him, you know, it's kind of a thing where they're happy for him, but they're also just like settle down like we want to be bad. Like don't be too good. Like I feel like, I feel like, I feel like, I've heard that a lot from Oklahoma City fans because they want to get Cade like like every team. How would the Cade Cunningham, Guildless Alexander fit work, Kyle? I've asked some people about this. I think it would work.

I mean, on paper, it doesn't feel like the shooting would quite be like at the, I think you'd have to have a pretty good shooter in that like three, four range. Like, I think that you'd have to have some quality there. I don't know. What do you guys think about that balance? I mean, I feel like with Shea, we've seen at work before. he's really been able to play off Chris Paul in L.A. his first year, he's playing off all their vets.

It seems like that's kind of what makes Shea so appealing as the ability to, you can think about it like if there are two, you could play Shea with Evan Mobley or Jalen Suggs or Jalen Green or Cade, really. I just think Shay is that ultimate chess piece you can move around. Yes. He can fit with any of them.

Any of the potential top guys in the draft, he can fit with anybody. And with Kate, it'd be interesting because you'd have two jumbo-sized playmakers and then if Alexei Pokushevsky could ever turn into something. I mean, you have to get it in there. We had to get a POCU reference. Had to happen.

I had to get into that. I love this OKC team, man. I mean, like you got Hamadu Diallo having a good year. Lou Dort still really good. Isaiah Roby, been pretty good playing for them. They get a lot of talent on the scene. Kenny Hustle, Kenrich Williams. Kenny Hustle's been good for sure.

Yeah, me and Chris Vernon had a big conversation about him on our show yesterday on Tuesday on the mismatch. And Kenrich Williams has been awesome. And it's really no wonder why this team is really outdoing expectations right now. They have a lot of talent. It's really as simple as that. A lot going on here.

I mean, they're, this is, they have a lot of flexibility as a franchise going forward. Sam Presti's got a fun job right now with all the draft picks he has. Let's move on to my first player. And that's Nick Claxton from the Brooklyn Nets. He's only played five games this season. So he gets an incomplete grade for all those apps.

is you get a B or B plus for the five games he's played because he's shown the upside to be the most important big for the Brooklyn Nets and the playoffs. He's just in his second season that's 6'11 and 226 pounds up from 215 last year. He's got long arms, quickness, agility, and that all enables Brooklyn to do what they want to do. And that's be versatile on defense and switch screens. But with Claxton, they can do that without sacrificing size and length like they do when they go to Brooklyn. Bruce Brown, their guard turn center, or how they really just sacrifice the ability to switch their bigs onto guards like they do with DeAndre Jordan. So Claxton gives them the best of both worlds.

And offensively, you know, you guys all watched him in college, too. It's so easy to forget that he was running some offense at Georgia because they didn't have a point guard. And he showed pretty good passing skills for a guy in a role that should be really playing that role. And I think with Kyrie, Katie, and James Hardin, I'm excited to, see how that develops because they do so much with short role playmaking with Bruce Brown. I think there's a little bit of that in Claxton on the offensive end of the floor.

And even if there's not, he's so good finishing around the room already, either with loud finishes or finesse finishes that he's going to be able to fit right in and in both ends of the floor. He can shoot threes a little bit too. So, you know, Nick Claxton, incomplete, but with potential over the second half of the season and into the playoffs to be an A plus. He's been good so far. I'm loving the way Claxton's playing. COC. Are you worried about Blake Griffin's taking a spot? I'm worried about that.

No, I mean, we get a, the video we're doing this week for the void is about Blake Griffin and about the nets and all their, you know, different pieces they have in the front core. Like about Blake, he gives a little bit of the best of both worlds. He gives you the offensive playmaking and he also allows you to be a bit more flexible on defense unlike DeAndre Jordan. But he gives you size. DJ is the more traditional option they have. Bruce Brown, the more, you know, small, super small ball guy that they can plug into the five. Claxton and Griffin, even if there's certain situations where Griffin might be eating minutes, I think from the Brooklyn Nets perspective, from like a management coaching perspective,

having all those options is great. So even though you might love to see Claxon get 25 minutes per game, I don't think it's such a bad thing for a team with championship hopes to be playing matchups more than anything else, which could be good for Claxton's development, too, to be in situations that's best for him. You know what I'm saying there?

Yeah, and I think, Even if Griffin, even if Nash does decide to give Griffin, you know, Claxton's minutes, if it does play out like that, the Claxton hive is so big and so loud that I don't see any way that Nash couldn't lose his job. And then also, you forgot, you know, respected as he is. I think that the other, you forgot an important, you forgot an important stack COC, which is among players under 20. four years old in the NBA, number one in BPM, Nick Claxton.

Now, that's on five games. That's a small sample. But I expect that to hold in for him to be the best player in the class, for sure. But Kyle, it's like I told you, if you already believe it, the sample doesn't matter. It's already true. You already know. Yes. And like I told you, yeah, I'm just going to kind of adopt that like so many people have in our society today and live by those words.

Along those same lines, though, small sample sizes, be damned. With Claxton, wouldn't it all surprise you guys if he ends up in the end being the big man who leads Brooklyn and minutes in a postseason? This year, yes, going down the road. What surprised you? Okay. This year, I mean, like, as a rookie or basically. Yeah, basically a rookie. He didn't play much last season, 15 games.

So basically a rookie. It's, you know, he's the only, has long 20 games in his career and he's been hurt, missed developmental time, recovering and all that. But he's gained, you know, 11 pounds. He looks stronger out there on the court to me. He's still going to get a huge. Yeah, he looks. great. I mean, it's really amazing how much his body has changed. I'll be, I'll be real

with you. I want to be surprised if that 226 number was wrong, because that measurement's taken before the season began. I mean, seven feet tall, so yeah, that's very skinny at 226. Yeah, he looks, 230, 235. He looks bigger to me than 226, and

I think there's a chance he could be the guy for them. This year. That's really exciting. That'd be awesome. I think there's a change. He looks really, really good in those five games, and this is a guy coming back midseason to a championship contender, called off the bench coming back from an injury and he looks that good he's kind of a little bit he is well he hasn't proven it yet i guess i just want to say he i think he has a chance to all right

put it out there kentucky people here this he i think that he has a chance to be what we thought willie collie stein was going to be in terms of like i think that he gives you if you ever watch him get down and getting a stance out on the perimeter like that was the big thing with willie coming out everybody was like oh he switched on to jerry and grant for that last shot against nondon i swear got him drafted high. I swear one play, everybody was like, wow. That was one hell of a moment. It is funny how that works, though.

It was a 6-5G league guard looking back on it, but whatever. You can just see, sometimes you could just see where like the hammer hits the fault line and everybody's, and there's like a moment that people are going to remember and that was one of them. But anyway, like if you watch Cox to get in a stance, I just think that he has the potential to be

more switchable on that front. I think he can carry more weight than Willie did. And I think that he can give you playmaking and potentially shooting too, which just expands the whole thing. I know we are so up on Nick Clackston. It's hilarious. But anyway, let's move on to your next one, Charks. Okay, so I'm going to do James Wiseman, number two overall picking the draft, going

to the Warriors. I mean, I think we all kind of know about him now. He's had an up and down year. He's been hurt. Started the season of the start now coming off the bench. And I just find him so fascinating. And I don't think it's really even so much about, like, I also. say the grade is a C, but I think it's more about the warriors than Wiseman.

Because the more I think about it, the more I watch him on Golden State, I just feel like it's almost like a football thing where he just doesn't fit their system whatsoever. I think Golden State has one of the most specific systems in the league, like system-oriented teams. And if I was James Wiseman, put me in the pick and roll in space, simplify the game, right, easy decisions, pass or dunk. Let me use my athletic ability. He's in Golden State where it's Okay, they're running a 50 off ball cuts. You catch the ball on the high post, quick decisions, use the screener. You don't get to hold the ball very much whatsoever.

You're kind of asked to be a really, really high IQ player right away. And they're putting a 19 year old center in this spot. I think it's really, really tough for him. And it's still going to get harder. I don't know if you all saw Steph's quote a couple weeks ago. I thought it was really interesting. So Steph said, it's a matter of continuing his confidence that he can provide huge value for us. Not to get caught up in the rookie power rankings to talk about other guys

in the top of the draft class. Everybody's in a different situation. We love having him. And it's like, yeah, listen to podcasts like us talk about Lamello for half an hour. And you're James Wiseman. What's your instinct? Okay, I got to prove myself. How do I prove myself? I got to get points. I got to get rebounds. I got to, you know, I got to score. But that's not what they need him to do whatsoever. And I think what's really hard for him is the things he does well and the things I've been surprised at with Wiseman. Like he can bring the ball up the floor himself. He can go coast to coast. He can shoot three sometimes. He's got that's an interesting offensive game. They just don't need that from him. What they need is like a really, like a Zaza, Pachulia, Andrew Bogot.

And that's what I'm worried about with Wiseman is one, he doesn't rebound very well. And two, he doesn't catch passes very well. That's kind of like the fundamental building block stuff they need that he doesn't have. And I just think, I feel like with guys who don't succeed more often than not, it's because teams are asking to be something they're not.

You've got to change your game to fit with us. And that's a big ask for a guy like Wiseman, and I'm worried about that. What's your grade for him, uh, charts? I would say C, but that's not really a knock on him

as much as the system he's in the fit. Yeah, I mean, it's really hard to rewire yourself. Like when you, and you were talking about the pressure. I get there are the two things kind of going on at the same time that are

really tough for him. And that is, you know, like you said, he's, he grew up number one. I mean, how many years in a row was he number one in his class? I mean, several. He was always, I think the whole time, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, that's, that's what he's used to. And some of these guys have kind of come out of the woodwork and just kind of passed him in the meantime. And then, yeah, in terms of his, his fit, yeah, just like rewiring your basketball brain. I'm sure that that impatience is sort of building up for him. Let's, um, let's compare and contrast wise, but the other player

that I wanted to talk about real quickly. I think it's relevant here. And that's DeAndre Aiton because with Aiton this season, his third year after being the number one pick, he's averaging a career low in points per game and field goal attempts per game,

but a career high in efficiency. And you could look at Aiton and say, oh, the offensive numbers are underwhelming. But what he has done is exactly what he needs to do for the team. And that's become the best defender he can be. Players this season are shooting 8% worse at the rim when Aiton is contesting their shots.

It's one of the best numbers for any young big in the entire league. He, you know, is a guy who has knocked for his defense entering the draft and has become a good overall defender who sometimes is great, sometimes is above average when the effort isn't all the way there. But more often than not, I've been encouraged by what Aiton has become. And he has fully embraced his role. I interviewed him the other week for the feature story I did in The Suns. And we talked about that.

And he's just like, I look around the court and I see a bunch of shooters. I see Chris Paul, I see Devin Booker, and I know what I need to do, you know, to win. And that's set the best screens that he can set, roll hard to the rim, finish as well as he can. Even after offensive rebounds, he's like, I'm looking for guys on the perimeter, not thinking about just going back up. I'm thinking about finding somebody who's open. And he has a mentality that's very unselfish. And for Wiseman, that's not saying that he is selfish. He's not.

But there's a learning curve there for a player who's been number one. been the guy their whole life and was the number two pick in the draft and now is playing with Stefan Curry and eventually going to be playing with Clay Thompson and playing with Draymond Green right now where at some point he is going to have to take on that Aiton-style mentality of like, this is what I need to do to be the best player that I can be for my team right now to be the best team that it can be. And maybe someday that offensive development occurs. But right now, the fits just very weird for Wiseman and Golden State and it'll take time I think for him to really fit in there, if ever.

Well, I mean, I think that's so interesting is when you're drafting centers, it's a role-playing position, right? There's a member, like, I think you read about this last year, KOC, where you're like, the center, either the superstar or you're the role player, and just most centers are in that role-player mold, where you have to do the role-player stuff first, and the superstar stuff comes later. And I'm curious with Aiden, do you see that?

Do you see him getting to that M-B'd cat, go-yokich level, are she going to be a good role playing center? Probably not, to be honest with you. Yeah. I do think it's worth saying that like this guy is still like super, you know, freakish with his athleticism and is the body that he has where there's still room for improvement over time for somebody who didn't start playing, you know, organized basketball until he was in his teen years.

Aiton had never really played high level of high school competition until, you know, junior, senior year until later in high school. So for him, he hasn't played against elite. competition for a long time. And the flashes have been there for him to be more of a go-to option. But to be like a perimeter guy, you know, who's handling a heavier load on your offense, I don't really see that with him, but I think that's okay. As long as he becomes the best version of what he can be on the defensive end of the

floor, as long as he can continue finishing at a good rate around the rim and making the right passes, there's been improvement in those areas, areas that were formerly weaknesses. that's encouraging for him making his positive traits even better. And when I talk to James Jones, their general manager, he said for DA, they hope long term that they can start adding those layers to his offense. Right now they want him in pick and rolls to go to the basket. They don't want him pick and popping. At some point, maybe that is something that starts developing for him.

But right now it's not there. And that's what's interesting with Wiseman. You know, we've seen those flashes on offense. What we need to see is the inverse. We need to see like the reliability. with playmaking, the reliability with making the right pass on the offensive of the floor, not just making it the right play, but doing it quickly and doing it, you know, the speed that's necessary for this fast moving warriors offense and being in the right

position defensively. And that takes time for Biggs, man. And that's the big thing DeAndre said to me, like, everybody talked about my defense out of, you know, college. I was knocked for that, but it's like, I never, I didn't have experience. He's like, it's hard to come to the NBA. And, and you have, like, this rotation happened on the weak side of the floor. and you've got to direct your teammate to rotate.

You give so much to think about. It takes time. And for Wiseman, it will take time. But there's, unknowably, those were the knocks on him prior to the draft. And where's your confidence level at, Kyle, and with him being able to fit into this golden state roster moving forward, because it seems like there's some skepticism from all of us here. It depends on the person, you know, because his situation is unique. Like, if you talk about the development of somebody like Embed or.

or towns. Those are guys that came into teams that were just abhorrently terrible. And there was a lot of runway and open road for, they were like, they didn't have anything in place. So when they came in, they were just like, go to town, man. Because if Wiseman, if Wiseman came into the exact same situation that the, that Cat did with the Timberwolves or Embed did, Embed also is, you know, he actually started getting minutes when he was a little older. So it's weird to, because he had those injuries and things like that. But I think with the Wiseman, yeah, it just, it comes down. to a mentality, you know, how, and we do this odd thing where, you know, did you say what your grade was for Aiton? Oh, no, I did not. B plus. Okay. Yeah, because I think we do this weird thing where we're

like, well, an A would be these counting stats being maxed out and things like that. There's like this weird push and pull between our idea of like what a good basketball player is. It's like if he fits into a winning environment, that's a success. And I think that, so on that level, his, his situation, Aiton and Weisman have similar situations going on right now where they have the potential to be in playoff settings really soon. What they're going to be. The sons are going to be, the warriors are going to be. So I think there's time, there's still time for him to do that. In terms of him hitting a ceiling where he is like the center of an offense,

the center of an efficient offense and a two-way player, I'm skeptical of that too, just because I just don't know that he has the same kind of like raw, offensive talent that guys like Kat and Embede have. but I think he still could be a very good NBA player. Okay, I hate to do this. And this will be done a million times, but we got to do it at least once. I mean,

if they have Lamello right now in Golden State. Like, what would that look like? And how does that change their whole? I just get the feeling, it's like watching Luke all over again where like the guys who didn't put past him, who got fired.

And the one's going to fire Bob Myers, obviously. But passing on Lamello, it just feels like that's one of the decision that's going to change every, franchise that didn't go that way, you know? Did you guys see Jalen Rose say the other day on Jalen and Jacoby that the warriors,

he reported that the Warriors told Lamello on draft day that they were taking them and then they didn't. And I don't know. No, I didn't see that. I don't know if this is true. I can't confirm that, but there were a lot of rumblings that day that they were going to take Lamello. And I look back at that.

And I wonder how much of that, if true, was some leverage there to try to force a trade up from Charlotte, you know, because they, because they were worried about Charlotte, you know, hopping them, you know, for Wiseman or getting, you know, someone taking the Wiseman ahead of them at one. And I wonder if maybe go and say wanted to open the door for them to trade down. Like, let's just say Charlotte had traded up to take Wiseman at number one. That would mean Edwards would go three, potentially. They could have traded down with Chicago to number for and taking him there rather than at number two. Very confusing right here.

But I just wonder how much of that, how much of that was them trying to shuffle the deck up top in order to open the potential to trade down? Because had Lamello not been there for Charlotte, Charlotte's probably taking Wiseman, which means Golden State wouldn't have been able to get him. So I wonder if how much of it was like a strategic decision that just didn't play out and just maybe made them look bad in the end.

Yeah, but can you imagine in the Golden State offense, Lamello, top of the key, Steph Cutting, Clay Cutting. And it's just hard not to think about it, man. It's just hard not to think about it. I think that they would be maybe the greatest league pass team of all time. And that's it. Well, I mean, other than like those really fun war, I mean, can you imagine that offense humming with him that that would, I don't know.

He'd be such a good fit in that offense, I think. It was cutting, now that he can shooting. It just feels like that could have changed the whole league. I mean, if you had lamello and Golden State for the next five year, like that, oh, I mean, the more I think about it's like that experience. extends Steph's prime, that extends Clay. That was the move. And that's why the draft is so important.

Like everything changes. You know, with Golden State right now, you know, they have interest in Victorola Depot, a guy who makes sense, you know, they need a guy to fill that Andreigua, Sean Livingston Roll. Lamello Ball could have done that. He could have been their supercharged version of Livingston in Igwadala, helping Steph carry out, handling the ball, helping Clayton. Thompson out delivering him the ball next season when they're all back together.

Like you said, Charks, it would have changed the leak if the Warriors landed Lamello. I made this point in my Dremont video, and that's like what was so maddening about stopping those Warriors teams is that like when you pepper in your playmaking and your assist percentage from all over the place, the way they did with Livingston, the way they did with Igwadala, the way they do with Dremont, et cetera, et cetera. It's like you're just tougher to game plan for it because it's not coming. from one place. So if you throw Lamello out there, who we said, demonstrated that he doesn't need to pound the ball and be a high usage creator to be effective. It's like he, yeah, it would

have been, it would have been insane. Let's move on to our final player for midterm grades. Who do you got, Kyle? I have a fellow that I did a video about pre-draft. This guy's name is Deni Avdia. I was told that it's Avdia. Tell me if that's correct on Twitter or not, whatever. So Denny Avdia, he's a 6-9-2-10, Power Forward, Number 9 pick in the NBA draft by the Wizards. He's had a rookie season that has been sort of the inverse of what Lamello has experienced. Whereas Lamello moved into the starting lineup after 20 games. Denny moved out into the second unit after 20 games. The Wiz were 5 and 15 with him in the starting lineup, and they've been 9 and 5 since against a tougher schedule, too.

I don't think that anybody expected Avia to set the world on fire. statistically. I mean, personally, I projected him as like a supporting spot-up playmaker off the catch who like occasionally threw in some pick and roll here and there. He's averaging 5.9 points per game, 4.7 rebounds, 1.3 assists. His BPM is negative 3.8, which is a tough kind of sign for a rookie. But I think that that number might be misleading because of his situation. Like his shot looks fine and he's shown those glimpses of like playmaking. But the key thing here is that like with Beal and Westbrook at 35.8 and 31.2 usage separately, it's been difficult for him to showcase the thing,

the pluses that would keep him on the floor, which kind of brings me to the big knock on him, which has been tough, is that, you know, instead of having that situation where he could do some things to offer something, there's been a lot of pressure put on his defensive struggles and where he's at 1.1.1.9 points per possession, which is in the 6 percentile of the league way down there.

And there are some more specifics about that. But overall, I'm going to give Avdia a 60, a 69% on his mentor. Why not? Let's end on a 69. Sure. I circled the drain and thought about going down and I just decided to be it. Anyway. Very nice, I mean, I don't know how much you guys have watched him.

I mean, it's just been tough for him to do the things that he does well. And I think that he needs runway and he needs. reps to develop the things that I think are going to long term be his offering in the NBA, because defensively, he's just had some issues. I think he's been a little bit overwhelmed by like the speed, like the second step speed of drivers in the NBA. I think he's kind of caught between worlds. Like he's not long or athletic enough to bother fours and threes, and he's not fast enough to guard perimeter scores. So he's just had some issues there. But, you know, effort is fine. Have you guys seen him defensively much at all?

I think he's solid for a rookie. I mean, I share some of the long-term concerns that you have, but I still think he's been solid overall for a rookie. It's just a, it's a weird fit for all the reasons you outline, Kyle. I mean, he's somebody who can be a playmaker for you. And those opportunities aren't there when you're playing alongside Bradley Beale and Russell Westbrook. And so in that sense, there's some disappointment with what we could have seen in a different situation. It kind of ties into everything we're talking about here,

like imagining Wiseman in a situation where he's being fed the ball more often. Lamello in a situation where he's playing alongside Steph, situation, opportunity, environment, directly affect player performance and player development. And I'm not quite sure that Avdia is in the best place right now for that development. But overall, though, I still, I would be given more than a 69, you know, in terms of grade. So I,

Oh, you would? Maybe it may be a C plus more than instead of a D plus. Maybe I'm being hard on it. Maybe it should be in the 70s. But it's, you know, I acknowledge his. strengths and how they need to grow. And I just think that he, that number absolutely could be higher if he had a different situation. So maybe if you know, if you're factoring all those things in.

But I'm still most perplexed by with him, though, is the shooting. The shooting is weird with Avi. It always has been. Where he's shooting 36% from three this year, but only 58% from the free throw line. It makes no sense. He doesn't get to the line and he's horrible. He's also shot only 19 free throws. So, like, it's hard to even, that's like less than one a game.

Sure. I mean, like, to be fair, like, it's a small sample. But also, like, this is somebody who pre-draft talked about how his shooting is mental. He says it's all mental. That's in his head. And the free throw shooting, granted it's a small sample, still sub 60%. Yeah. And Israel was the same thing, that weird split.

Exactly. I think with Denny, it reminds a little bit of OB Toppin at 8 where when I look at guys, I always try to ask myself, what is your role in the NBA right away? How can you, like, how are you going to find your role if you're not a top five pick? because you're not a top five pick, they're not probably going to move a team around to get you that role, right? You kind of got to break your way in

and just find a spot for yourself. And a guy like Denny is just hard to do that because he needs a ball in his hands. He's not a plus defender and he's not a plus shooter. So to me, it wouldn't surprise me if Denny ends up going to like two, three teams, right? If Washington kind of like mediocre's out

for next two, three years with Bellow and Westbrook, maybe they flip him for a wing who can guard be a three and D guy and he goes to Team two, then maybe he's, he goes to team three and then he finds that role right it's all about fit if not top five pick and the fit's hard to find that's how guys start moving around the NBA i think you're absolutely right that was something that i've thought a lot about pre-draft was that he kind of strikes me as a joe ingles type

like he's somebody that can play with with other initiators and be a guy that you can kind of mix in and mix up your looks but he he has a sort of a timidity to him i think that he might grow out of to because when you watch and play defense, he schematically, I was going to tell this story about, like, pre-draft when I was doing research on him. I somehow came across,

like a 2K stream where he was playing with some people, and they were like, man, your defensive rotations are perfect. And it was like, he's somebody that knows the game really well. And he's, it just made me laugh because I was like,

he knows where to be. It's just a situation of him, kind of getting him maybe, not to be overly simplistic about it, but just some nastiness. So he was controlling a player and moving him defensively helps, I had a different spot.

He was like incredible. Kyle, I like it. Well, I just accidentally found it. That's such a just meaningless throwaway thing. But like he, I just,

I make that point that like he is in the places where he needs to be. He understands the rotations, I think. It's just he has a little bit of like deference and like, he doesn't really have the audacity to just go out there and be like, I'm shooting or, you know, like he just,

that toughness I think will come into him maybe as he gets older. Let's move on to draft class, which is our segment where we talk about an NBA draft prospect in the upcoming draft. And this week we're going to talk about Jalen Green, who played for the G-League Ignite and has had no issues with being timid on the offensive end of the floor.

Charks, you wrote about Jalen Green this week for the ringer.com with a great article with the headline if everybody wants to look it up. Jalen Green is the best score in the NBA draft in a G-League experiment. Charks, please tell us about Jalen Green. Okay, so Jalen Green, he's a guy if you kind of follow recruiting stuff.

I think he was number one for a long time in his class. He's a real, he's six, probably six, four, six, five combo guard, maybe even six three. Crazy, number one, crazy, crazy athlete talking 40 inch vertical. He's a guy who can just dunk in the lane. I had a clip, like, he misses this dunk, but he jumps from a street area and like elevates and hangs and like cocks it back. He's just that kind of electric Zach Levine level athlete. Plus, he's got a jump shot and handles.

So he just scores very, very easily. And that's what starts me watching him. him is not only did he score a lot in the JITDA, which is what I expected is he was very efficient scoring, right? That's unusual. He's a 19-year-old kid playing against 25-year-olds, and he's getting to his spots. He's hitting his shots consistently in a pretty high, efficient level.

And you compare him to Jonathan Kaminga, the other top five pick in the Ignite team, the percentage is wildly different. Green is a much smaller player, but he's hitting two at a higher rate, three is at a much higher rate, he's knocking down free throws. this is a guy can just score at all three levels as a 19 year old. And that's probably, I mean, that's like the strength of his game, obviously. You say he can score at all three levels.

What does he lean on most right now? Is he more perimeter based? Is he like downhill? Like, what's the style, you know, when it comes to scoring at all those different levels? I think it's like, I would say more the style is like, I'm going to score. Like he's like,

I just going to find the basket. And I think that's what worries me about him sometimes too, is that he doesn't really read the floor very well. It's like, I got the ball. How am I going to score right? now. Okay, let's just do it. And it's hard to stop him one-on-one, but I don't always see him much of a playmaker right now. And I don't even think he takes great shots a lot. He's just so athletic, even his bad shots become good shots. Yeah, isn't he like the all-time leading

score or some, he scored some ungodly amount of points in high school, but that's just kind of, he kind of, I was going to pose this to you. He's on it. I actually think he looks like he's like six-three. And I have some questions about like his frame. He's very scrawny. He's listed at six, six, correct? Even though he's no way. He's definitely not that tall. He looks Bradley B.L. size to me who's listed at 6'3.

Yeah, I kind of put him in our dock, I put a picture of him and Zach Levine at UCLA next to each other because Levine has kind of, I mean, he's moved to the point where he's a pretty solid dude. He's still in. He's filled out for sure. Levine has. Yeah, and I'm just wondering hit like shoulder width and things like that.

It looks like Levine is a little bit bigger, like built bigger than him, but We'll see. I think I think you're right. And I kind of, Levin and another person I had him on this spectrum of, do we think that he's a Levine type who Levine has grown into? And you did a really good job describing Levine's growth and his challenges and how he really worked and things like that. And it kind of brings up questions about who is Green going to be as a player in terms of his work ethic? I don't know what kind of intel we have on that. But can he take the same path that Levine did? Could he become like the center, like the best player on a good NBA team, like as a score and a playmaker?

Do you see that as possible? I'd say it's possible, but he's just so far away right now. I think the big thing for him will be getting stronger. He's 180 pounds. And that's going to really, I think, slow him down at the NBA level. He just got to get a lot physically stronger. He's just got to put on, I mean, you compare him to Jalen Suggs. Jalen Suggs is 205 pounds.

Like 25 pounds is a lot. Yeah. And that's what you just got to have if you're going to be a number one option on the MJ level. You've got to be able to take hits. The last thing on this is in terms of his ceiling, he seems like he kind of reminds me of Monk when Monk was in high school, the way he was just like, I'm a nuclear bucket getter. Skinny guy, about 6'3. And that was kind of the spectrum that I was thinking. I was like, is he going to be that type of player or Levine type?

Charks had Terrence Ross. He's another name in there, a guy who can create his own shot. And I thought that was a really smart line in the article, he wrote, Green will get buckets of the NBA. The question is how long it will take him to do anything else. And it might be a little harsh, but I think it's accurate. When you watch Jaylen Green, the playmaking needs to develop. And what I'm curious about is early in his career, you know, any young player you'd like

to have them bring some level of defense defense to the floor. We talked about Lamello earlier with deflections, activity off ball. We're talking about what Wiseman needs to do to maximize what he can be. what does Jalen Green bring on defense right now? What have you seen from him during his season in the G League? I mean, he gets steals sometimes. He's very quick. I guess he has pretty long arms.

I just, I think the biggest thing is if I draft Jalen Green, like we're just going to the gym. Like we're getting to the weight room and we're just hitting the weights for like three months. We're getting them bigger and stronger because until that happens, and the NBA, I think that's so underrated for defense is just pure strength.

Right? Because if you're going to be guarding guards, it's ball screens getting over screens sticking with guys on drives it's just all about strength more often than not and he just doesn't have it right now yeah i think that's true and i think that the strength that just eats into his like what i call like his offensive bandwidth which is like if you're not strong and you're in the middle of the floor you're worried about you're consumed with like staying on balance staying on your past staying on your spot if you're getting knocked off of your spot a lot it's hard to be a good decision maker it just eats into your your your mental space

And I think that that's an issue for him. So before he can get, before he can improve in those areas, absolutely, he has to get stronger so that he can stay, you know, it's just going to help his awareness and across the board. Just one last question on Jalen Green. A lot of time before the draft. So much can change. But where are you guys at with him right now? Does he in your top two? Is he in your top three?

How does he compare to some of these other names we've discussed in recent weeks like Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs, Evan Mowley? Okay. So for me, I think I have Cade and Mowgli as a cut-abli. above. Okay. They're my top two pretty high. And I think green and Suggs. I go Suggs three, green four.

But I think to me that's going to be one of the big questions in this draft is those two guys at that range. I think my top four is those four. I think Kaminga to me is not in that level. I'm not a big Kminga guy. How about you, Kyle? Yeah, I wouldn't have him. I agree with Charks.

I think that it's Kade Mobley. I've Ked it as Tier 1 and then Mowbly and then Suggs. And then I would, there's some guys that could shift up. You know, it depends on where green. goes on that spectrum. I lean a little more skeptical, like, I think he is going to be more in that, like, monk-e kind of range. No, I don't

mean production, not, like, don't hold me exactly to the production quote there. But I don't even think he's just, like, built like somebody like Terrence Ross. Like, I just, I really need to see that. Ross is bigger for sure. Yeah. To move with any confidence, anyway. So, I don't know. There's some guys that could move up. Like, I still think, like, Barnes

and I think Zaire could move up. I think, you know, there's a lot of shift. A lot of time until the draft, so much can change. I'm with guys right now with Kate Cunningham and Evan Mobley being above him and Jalen sucks too. But today it's 50 degrees out and Brockton, Massachusetts. It feels like summertime. I got a short sleeve shirt on. Pod's over.

I'm going to go for a walk today with my mom. It's our first walk outside in a long time. Got a short sleeve shirt on. What's the shirt, K. Let me see it. What do you got there? Father John Misty, Josh Tillman. Father John Misty, yeah.

Classic. That's great. It's great. You look so alive and vibrant and just youthful right now. I mean, you've got the spring background going. on in your Zoom. Thank you. Tame and Paula.

Interspeaker background there. What do you guys have planned for today? What's going on in the world of Jake Almanana and Jonathan Sharx? Just got to start planning for a video. Same old, same old. And, uh, you know, getting ready for March madness.

It's, it's so excited. I mean, we missed it last year. I can't wait to do it this year. It's going to be so much fun. I will be, well, I guess we'll do our pod after the first weekend of games. So heading to the sweet 16. But I'm really excited. I've missed it.

It's my favorite time of the year is March Madness. maybe we'll see Kentucky. We'll definitely see Texas. Let's go. I usually set up like three or four screens and kind of sit back and just chill out. Yeah, it's one of the best times of the year. All right. Well, thank you guys. We'll be back in two weeks. We'll another episode of Ringer NBA University. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for producing the show. And thank you, everybody, for listening.

If you enjoy this podcast, please subscribe to the podcast feed and let a friend who also likes the NBA about the show. Maybe they'll like it too. Thanks again for listening. I hope you have a fun day. very good.