The Ringer NBA Show - DeMar DeRozan Deal Is Some Kings Sh*t. Plus, the Brandon Ingram Market, and Reassessing the East After Philly’s Shopping Spree. | Group Chat

Episode Date: July 7, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos start by reacting to the news of DeMar DeRozan’s sign-and-trade to the Sacramento Kings (5:00). Then, they discuss who would be the best fit for Brandon Ingram (22:30). They wrap up with tiering the Eastern Conference after Philly signs Caleb Martin and the Magic extend Franz Wagner with a max deal (37:53). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Tucker Tashjian Social: Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Greetings, it's Mal. Call your banners because it's time to head back to Westrose for House of the Dragon, season two. The ringers, dragon riders will soar alongside you each week with a heron-hall-sized slate of conversations. The dragon has three heads, and on Sunday nights immediately after Hot D concludes, Chris Ryan, Joanna Robinson and I will be with you for Talk the Thrones. Then on Mondays, two more shows away. Van Lath and Charles Holmes, Steve Allman and Jomea Denneron, aka the Midnight Boys, Pugh!

Poo! We'll head to the tourney grounds to share their reactions. And of course, Chris Ryan and Andy Greenwald will sip the Arbor's finest vintage on the watch. Then on Tuesdays, Joanna and I will head to the bowels of a pleasure den for our House of our deep dives. Then on Thursdays, Joe, Neil Miller, and Dave Gonzalez will gather the Ravens for trial by content. In this season, full episodes of Talk to Thrones, House of Ar, and the Midnight Boys will also be available on video on Spotify and the new Ringervverse YouTube channel. Podcast episodes available on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And welcome to group chat.

I am Justin Barrier and joining me as always for this Sunday podcast, Rob Mahoney, Big Waz. We all decided to dress alike for some reason. Funeral Pod, RIP to good content. What's going on here? Was there ever good content? That's the question. I mean, I'm out here grinding in California classic tape. I don't know about you guys.

I was at a wedding yesterday and they did it like a little after. drinks thing after the wedding. And I went to sleep in this t-shirt, woke up in it, and now I'm potting. So that was the entire premise of my outfit. You couldn't even be bothered to literally change clothes. No, no, not at all. All right. I guess we have no choice but to respect it. Come on, guys. It's the offseason. Everybody's got their feet up at this point. You got the balloon in the background. You got the flip-flops going on. Wise is very much. And In summer mode, Rob and I are still out here just taken away, you know? I, for instance, was actually watching the California Classic.

I don't think Rob was, unfortunately. No. The pre-summer league before the actual Vegas Summer League is true sicko behavior. Dark. Can't do it. Can't do it. Yeah. I watched Bronny's debut, which was as underwhelming as you might imagine.

I have to share with you guys, though, the highlight of that game, which was that a guy by the name of Adonis Arms. Hell yeah. Took over, scored 32 points. Adonis Arms. I feel like this is like the American gladiator we were deprived of. Like if that was still going, that guy would have had a clear route to that career path. But unfortunately, here he was dropping 30 in a meaningless, what is it, early July game.

Meaningless. You were watching it. It was giving your life some meaning. You know, I don't think I have a lot going on in general. So I wouldn't say this gave it meaning. but gave me something to do on mid-Saturday in early July. Well, shout out to Adonis Arms. On the level of summer league, you know, or summer games,

where does this rank on the continuum of Schedishvili dropping like 40 or whatever it was for the Nuggets? Yep. And Lanzo Ball selling out the Thomason Mack Center. I feel like the Vegas games have a little bit more panache, you know? There's a dare I say more stakes to those games than a gym is at least full. Right, right. This was a very empty chase center in which honestly, I don't even know anyone who actually even watched the game can tell you about Adonis Arms because they were so locked into

Bronny James missing damn near every jump shot that he took. Are we also saying that Skittishvili having maybe his career highlight is a low point for Summer League? that's a big moment was no i'm saying says the adonis arms up there with that oh you said these are yeah okay these are the mythological figures of summer league this is Nate robinson getting his jersey retired on the wall the thomas and max maybe he's not there yet but yeah like hopefully by Vegas he will be hopefully adonis arms is going to get some continued run out there let's go well if he makes it to Vegas because apparently there are also two kings teams they're split into kings one Kings 2 and the Bronny James Lakers unfortunately didn't even fare well against the Kings 2 team.

So if he makes it to one in Vegas, maybe we'll give a full scouting report. Maybe we'll even live pot it from the dais out there when we do our summer league action. But we actually have actual NBA news to address here. DeMarter Rosen is now a king. He showed up to the Kings one game late in the day, hung out with Deere and Fox on the baseline, and showed up with Vivek. Real, like, wrestling-style entrance to his debut, I guess. Rob, what do you think about this move?

So just to get the details out there, three years, $76 million, partial guarantee on the third year. They dump some salary to the spurs and so the Bulls in order to make it all happen. But Kings Day of the Kings, they get Demard to Rosen. What do you think? I'm just really glad that DeMar found a way to a winning team and got paid in the process.

I think a lot of us were looking around at the musical chairs of free agency trying to figure out who are the calf space teams, who are the teams that aren't hard capped by the second apron, who can actually do a sign and trade to get him in house. Of all the options on the board, the Kings were probably the best one left.

And this is a dude who deserves a chance to compete for something real. And we can certainly debate whether the Kings are going to be competing for anything real this year, but they're a solid winning team with aspirations of actually contending in the West and playing hard. we'll see how well they do.

But I love that he has a chance to be in this sort of position on a team that actually does fit his offensive talents pretty well. Yeah, we only talked about Demar Peripherally last time we potted because we were talking about the Lakers. And obviously there was some rumored interests. And I think like he spoke to people over there. And there was this idea out there that he was going for the taxpayer mid-level or, or, you know, well, God forbid, taxpayer, but the, you know, the big mid-level. And we talked about it off camera,

but I'm going to say it here. I did tell you guys that he was going to get paid. You did. And he got his bread. And I'm happy for the Kings, man. Like, I like the idea that like, all right, cool. We're not as good as the top three, maybe four teams in the West. We're a real freaking team and we're adding talent to it.

We're going to be, you know, We're going to make people's lives miserable every single night next season. And they're going to give their fans something to show up the games for and be excited about. I think in this era of the NBA where, you know, we fetishize assets and, you know, the team building process and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. A lot of times we pooh-poo the teams that are doing this like what we would say is just good enough. But I think for the fans of this team who they miss, what, 14, 15 playoffs in a row, you know, to put this group together and be able to compete and have something like tangible, you know, that they could root for. I think it's really cool. Yeah, the logical brain in me has questions with the fit.

It's with Sabonis and DeRosen together, spacing, a little cramped. Also, we've just decided to pretty much a shoe defense at this point. Well, yeah, it is Sacramento. Yeah. It seems like as much of a bet on Keegan Murray stepping up this season and Kevin Herder have. having the type of season that I think everyone has expected for him, but last season struggled to do even before he got hurt. But then like the more lizard brain in me is just like, why are we worrying about defense once, one, let's just go out and be the best version of the Kings. And like, if we're just going to out bucket get other teams, De Rosen is the perfect fit for that.

It's funny because he's just has a way late post-Toronto career of him of just stabilized. certain teams. It's like teams can only be a certain level of bad in San Antonio in Chicago when he's out there because of his clutch ability. And just because he just has a way of crafting his way into buckets and winning games. And so this, I think this provides a nice little floor for the Kings, which if you're the Kings and you haven't made the playoffs a ton, that's more important to you than say if you were the Warriors, for instance, where the bar is a little bit higher. Yeah. And part of the reason he does that and creates such a solid floor for so many teams is he plays hard. He plays a lot of games. He plays big minutes. And he's turned himself into not just

this bucket getter who's really fun to watch and can manufacture offense and crunch time, as you said, Justin, but also all throughout games. But he's just a really well-rounded offensive player, where he's made himself into a better cutter. He's made himself into a good passer. He's made himself into the kind of player who can fit the movement and the style that Sacramento plays. I just don't know that he addresses any of their specific weaknesses. And that makes him tough to talk about in this, in this context, because he's going to make them better. But until the kings find a way to address what actually ails them, they're probably not going to be meaningfully better.

What ails them is that they employ Sabonis, but that's either here nor here. This is the thing about their defenses. So long as Sabonis is playing the five, there's really only so much you can do. And the only way to dramatically improve your defense with Sabonis of the five is if at one through four, you have guys who can really keep their guys in front of them, really locked down on ball. And they don't have that. Yeah, I think the model would be the wolves that year before they got Rudy Gobert in there,

where it's just a bunch of length and athleticism flying around. Yes, Carl Towns is a weak link at the five, but, you know, one through four, man, we're flying around. We're high effort, high execution. Like, you know, and they got to be a respectable level. defense. Sacramento and got the personnel to be respectable on that end. But, you know, again, like, I commend them for upgrading their roster. It is a true upgrade. The Bulls went out and gave Zach Levine $200 million. And DeMard de Rosen has demonstrated himself to be so much better than that

dude. It's kind of crazy to the point where Levine is damn they untradable now, right? And so I'm happy for them. I'm happy for him. He was able to get, you know, at least one more nice NBA contract, man. The guy's about to be 35. Yeah. It was like what, six, seven years ago when he got traded for Toronto. And I think a lot of people probably left him for dead. But as Rob was kind of alluding to, it almost feels like he's getting better with age. There's definitely like a deepening, like fine wine sort of thing where as he grows into his late 30s now, it's just a more very like better offensive a player, which I wouldn't have expected at that point of his career. And I also think it's important that this guy plays a ton. So over the past decade, he's missed double digit games once. He led the

league in minutes last season. It's like you keep counting out, but he keeps producing. And I think it's actually a good comp to someone like Brandon Ingram, for instance, who was reported to be a target for the Kings, if they didn't really make this DeRosen thing work. And DeRosen is healthier. more productive and more reliable than you would ever get from Brandon Ingram. So from that respect, I get it. And I think you could make the case that they didn't give up a ton in this deal. So if it is ultimately a stopgap move just to create a better floor, I don't hate it. Yeah, it's just a swap out effectively for Harrison Barnes.

And they had to throw in Chris Duarte to make the mechanics work. You know, that's a loss. Chris Duarte is a decent rotation player or at least a deep rotation player to have on your bench. But ultimately, Damar is a clear upgrade. He's also the kind of guy for all the reasons we listed. And I think the contrast with Brandon Ingram is especially Stark in this way. It was very fun to watch and root for. Like if you are a Kings fan, you're going to have a ton of fun investing in Damar as a part of that team.

And to kind of bring home or expand on this kind of fine wine energy you're bringing to the Demar experience, Justin. The added layer of complexity he's going to bring to what they run is going to be very welcome. they're already a team that has all of this like this mechanical action around the elbows around subonis and Fox. Not only do you have a pretty good mid-range threat already in Deer and Fox who can start and stop and stutter into space, but now you have a guy who is just so comfortable in those zones where you can really layer

this three-level offense. And if you're getting to the basket consistently on cuts, you have these two mid-range killers between Fox and DeRosen and you have Sabonis enabling Kevin Herder and Malik Monk and all of these shooters around them, that's a recipe that can really, really work offensively. It's just everything else that's the issue and the question. And ultimately, what's going to keep them, I would think, ultimately in more or less the same range that they've been.

So they're going to be a better team. I just don't know that they're climbing out of this really congested play-in group. Yeah, my questions in addition to some of the fit stuff with Demar, or honestly for the rest of the roster, because there is kind of been a little bit of a talent drain happening low-key as they've gotten better. They punted on a draft pick last year to open up cap space that they only ultimately gave and renegotiate and extend with Sub bonus. They bring in Devin Carter in the draft. He's 22, so you'd expect maybe he would help next season, but he's a rookie, so maybe not. Kevin Herder had a really rough year last year, as we kind of alluded to. Davian Mitchell,

they gave up in a trade in addition to Sasha Zankoff in order to bring in Jalen and McDaniels. another classic like Justin Holiday wing type who he's like wingy but he doesn't really shoot much. I think McDaniels. Uncharitable to Justin Holiday who at least has had moments. Jalen McDaniels is pure theory. I was waiting to figure out who that was uncharitable too. Yeah.

Right. No. Jalen McDaniels has earned all all lack of charity. Like he cannot shoot. He's not an offensive player. He has all of Jaden McDaniels is like frenetic overfowling instincts. I just can't.

I've been waiting for him to be an NBA player for a long time, and we haven't seen very much of it yet. So the Kings have, they're able to look forward to that. They bring Alex Len back. So it's just like there really isn't much after the first layer of guys. And so this team is surprisingly shallow.

And it got them in trouble last year when they lost Monk and Herder down the stretch, Monk in particular. And so like maybe Durrozen solves that gives them some sort of stability there so that they could power through to that sixth seed. But I don't know. I think we're all kind of saying the same thing here where it's like, oh, this is interesting and they might be better as a result of it, but they're probably not appreciably better. Probably not. The one name we didn't

really get to there was Keon Ellis, who I think in some ways made Davion Mitchell expendable and ultimately started taking minutes from Kevin Herder. He could at the end of last year. Like him coming on strong, well, yes, which is a bit of a problem. But you would hope between Murray and Herder and Monk in particular, if Herder is shooting well again, that could be enough to keep things spaced and keep things contained. And Deer and Fox stepping up as more of a high-volume three-point shooting guy, too. All of those are meaningful developments for Sacramento's offense. And their offense has room to grow still.

I think between some of those younger guys getting better and between bringing in someone like DeMar, they're going to be able to do some really fun and interesting things on that side of the ball. Was, does this technically qualify as bringing DeMar home? like have we satisfied that requirement by bringing him to California? Absolutely not. Like even if like first of all, even if he was in the Bay Area,

it'd be like hell no. But like Sacramento, no, no. But you know, it's a nice quick, quick PJ to L.A. So he's closer than that regard. So that's nice for him and his family. They did kind of try to steal it though by playing not like us during his intro. Oh, day?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They play Kendra Mar as he was walking out. Yeah, like you said, it was full WWE out there. All right. Well, yeah, it's a doable drive. I don't know if I would do it regularly, but you know, LA to Sacramento. Yeah, you do it around the coast, you know, on a day off,

hit Pebble Beach. Maybe two days off. I'd space that thing out. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, before we jump out of this trade, Can we talk a little bit about the Spurs part of it? Yes. They pick up Harrison Barnes in the sign and trade.

And look, the Pistons are out here, spending $52 million outright to sign Tobias Harris. The Spurs are getting, I would say, a similarly useful player in Harrison Barnes with $41 million left on his deal over two years. And they get a completely unprotected pick swap way down the line. Just roll the dice. See what happens for absolutely nothing to bring. bring in a player who genuinely Harrison Barnes is going to help this purse. That's a good bit of business. Everything old is new in Detroit, apparently.

I think I would be more critical of Chicago and not prioritizing the asset there. Because clearly, like, they were a dumping ground for a lesser amount of money in Chris Duarte, but they took on the seconds as opposed to swinging for the fences and getting the pick swap there. I understand it because Barnes has two years left. on his deal and the Bulls at the verily seem like they're aspiring to some sort of like middle ground that the spurs aren't even bothering to deal with. I will also say that Barnes looked a little washed last year in ways that like beyond what he had previously. But he's played 82 games two years in a row, which is not nothing in an NBA where guys struggled to get to 70

these days. And he hit like a reasonable amount of threes. And so like I think you're right. I think he is a serviceable player and might be for one, two years. It's just like, I guess it depends on how much you value the pick swap down the road. And the spurs, as we've seen, value it very much because all they want are home run plays. Let me ask you, though, was he more washed than Tobias Harris against Knicks? You know, I don't think it gets much washed more washed than that. But he was looking pretty raggedy toward the end. There. No, I got you.

The Spurs also don't have much. Tobias was like the full wash in detail, you know, the premium package of being washed, I think ultimately in that series. I just don't mind the Harrison Barnes piece of it at all. I love the Spurs taking some of those home run chances, given what they already have in house. For the Bulls, I mean, look, this is really just a statement on the state of Chicago and the Bulls in general, but I'm pleasantly surprised they didn't just give Damar like four years

in $160 million. after just trading for Josh Giddy in a situation that would have made a total mess of a team. And so to move on in the way that we have been asking them to move on feels like a kind of relief. Is it asset maximization? Absolutely not. And I don't think we've seen anything in Chicago's recent track record to suggest that they really partake in something like that. I think it's just wild that one of the outcomes of this offseason is that Josh Giddy has his own team. Yep.

Is that not what the playoffs told you should happen? That's insane, dude. You got to give him the keys. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, it's weird that they didn't do this at the deadline when reportedly they could have traded Crusoe and or de Rosen for much more value. But I think you're right. I think at least that they did it.

And if you're going to bring in giddy, giving him the ball and at least like seeing whether or not he is up for that task is the right way to do it. And so like, yes, there's more logic than there has been in the past. although I would argue that their young core is just like a lot of okay guys who are young-ish, not necessarily like full young core rebuild style. And also it seems like a lot of teams are tanking ahead of next year's draft where it seems like it could be pretty deep and talented Cooper Flag and those sorts of guys are going to be in play here. And so like I almost wonder if the tank race is getting too thick.

So they are actually tanking an inopportune time to do so. But the Bulls are. are different, and I think different is good in this case. Are there that many tanking teams? I think there are a lot of teams that could. There's none in the West, basically. That's the thing. The West is pretty shy on it.

I mean, San Antonio. Well, I think the Blazers very much could be whether they want to or not. The Spurs. Utah could hit the button if they want to get rid of Lowry. You know, Detroit will, Washington will, Charlotte will, Brooklyn will Toronto could if you get an injury

Atlanta might despite their best effort Chicago that's like half the league at this point well I think the spurs could end up closer to the 40 win mark

than the tanking race ultimately you're damn right and this is where you know the trailblazers the trailblazers probably have the inside track on that sort of thing

I know there's the flattened dots they're going to be horrible again they're going to be very bad and by virtue of being the only team in the West and they're sketched being stacked toward the west that's tanking, they're just going to end up with a lot of losses by default in ways where,

you know, at some point, the Hornets and the Wizards are going to have to play each other. And one of those teams is going to get a win out of it. So, yeah, there could be a lot of bad basketball out there. But I think the last swing piece we should talk about who might change one of these teams' fortunes would be Brandon Ingram. All of the moves have been made and our friend Brandon Ingram, in addition to Lori Mark and we'll see what happens there.

It just seems to be a lot of inactivity and a lot of consternation about like, oh, he has a good contract, which would make him easier to trade, but actually you can't extend him. So you can't trade for him than I don't really have a lot of time for it right now. But Brandon Ingram, presumably the next guy who will get moved. Pelicans have signaled as much. I find myself just at a loss, Rob, as to where this guy would go. So do you see like a clear cut fit? Do you want me to hit you with some teams and maybe we'll be? we can go through which team makes sense? Like, how do you want to do this? Please hit me with some teams because, spoiler alert, there is no clear cut fit. Okay. So I have some written down here, none of which I think I like,

but I think these are the most logical teams to target. First one up is the Warriors. Okay. I could throw out like just general thoughts here. I guess one thing we should mention is I do think the Dejante Murray trade, I think allows the Pelicans, to maybe prioritize future assets in a way that they previously didn't.

They have a hole at center so you'd presume that they'd want to get someone in out of an Ingram trade. But I do think like because they have such this stash of young wings, they could actually just trade Ingram, elevate those guys and actually build to their pick coffers. And so that's why I bring up the warriors who have these future picks might be valuable in the event that Steph retires sometime in the next three to four years. You do like Wiggins as the money. you get the picks.

Maybe you throw a moody in there. Does that interest you at all if you're the Pelicans or the Warriors? I think for the Pelicans, a lot of things would interest me in trading Brandon Negrim. Not to say he's a perfectly fine player, but a piece that sort of complicates the vision

of what you want your team to be if you're New Orleans. So I understand their motivation to move him. The Warriors do make some sense from the respect that they might have the kind of desperation to improve in the short term that would lead you to Brandon Ingram.

Now it would require you to give up on that Lowry Markin and sweepstakes that the Warriors seem quite interested in and quite invested in. And you would be punting on the idea that you might be able to, if not trade for Lowry now, trade for him closer to the deadline

or at some point during the season because you'd have to give up all this stuff to get Brandon Ingram in the first place. A player who, we should all remind ourselves that the last time Steve Kerr coached Brandon Ingram for Team USA, he decided like, let's move that guy to the bench. He's not what I thought he was.

Seems like a pretty big caveat in a conversation on getting Brandon Ingram to the Warriors. So the Warriors absolutely need somebody who can handle the ball, create that isn't Steph Curry. You know, I'm sure if you talk to Jonathan Kaminga and his agent, they're saying he's that guy, he's that person. He has not proven himself to be that in the past. Maybe he comes into next season, you know, fully rejuvenated. He's got the, like, he's been handed the keys. the second guy. But Brandon Ingram would fill that need.

The problem is he feels nothing else. He's a ball stopper. He's not particularly good in pick and roll. He refuses to take threes. He barely plays any defense. He can be a sourpuss. Like, I mean, I don't see how he fits into what the Warriors are doing. And the problem for anybody who has championship aspirations,

who would be, you know, in a tier or two above what the war. Warriors are doing. He's just not complimentary. You know, he just doesn't compliment anything, sorry. Just, like, it doesn't space. Like, he's not that good in pick and roll in terms of finding other people.

He's gotten better. Yeah. A decent passer. But not high enough level to have the ball, to require it. You know, if you're going to invest that much of putting the ball on Brandon Ingram's hands, the results need to be generally better. And this is kind of the problem as we go through all these teams is, bringing in Brandon Ingram does not maximize Jonathan Cuminga.

And so if your goal as the Warriors is maximizing the players you do have who are good, I don't think he serves that goal. Yeah, it's tough to be in a ball finds energy situation when you're a dower ball stopper. I think is what we're coming around to. It's just tough. And I think that the team USA thing was instructive to me because he's playing around a bunch of other talented people and he can't find his way in. You know?

And so like if you have the highest aspirations, which would be the kind of teams I think would make the most sense for it. Where it's like, all right, we're trying to take this to the next level, right? Like, let's say the wolves were crazy enough to be like, you know what? This is a Jada McDaniels upgrade, right? Similarly sized guys, but this guy's way more offensive-minded. You know, we'll talk them into defense. We'll talk them into shooting some more threes.

they can't credibly say that or want to do that. But like in a different world, it would be like, yo, that's how we supercharges this thing. But like, you can't credibly make that argument. No, the Pelicans would get the first thing smoking to go pick up Jaden McDaniels to come ferry him to New Orleans if that deal were ever on the table. But those kinds of players aren't really available for Brandon Ingram

for exactly that reason. Does the Mississippi take you from Minnesota to New Orleans? Well, I was saying first thing, I was ferry in a, you know, a metaphorical ferrying, not an actual ferrying. Okay. Are you talking about the actual Mississippi River? Yeah. Rob gets around the Midwest more than we do, so I don't know if he has some like better travel

bookings that we don't know about. Not by boat. No, but I think you've kind of hit out the essential trouble spot with trading Ingram where it's like the pelicans are pretty transparent that they don't want. want to give this guy max money. And so you're trying to foist him onto someone who will do that. But obviously, there are a ton of fit issues, whether or not he can be a one or a two on virtually any team. Because a lot of the teams that we're going to bring up here, if they don't already have that, they're trying to rear someone to step into this. It's exactly what we were talking about

with Giddy. It's like teams are already lining up their next guy if they don't have the guy. And so to import Ingram, I think it's going to be difficult. But let me throw this one out here, which is a little bit more like creative thinking here. What about the Raptors who have Bruce Brown's now expiring contract? You get maybe Pertle as a part of this, but the picks, once again, are the main attractive quality here. Is there any logic to like Barnes quickly and now Ingram? I don't like to, I don't like the England. I'm sensing a theme here. I don't like the smell of that. Like him and They like occupy a lot of the same areas. And shout's to Scottie Barnes for getting his attempts

and percentage up last year from three. That's helped him take a major step in his career. I think it's a big part of why he was able to make the All-Star team and all of that. But him and Ingram just don't fit, man. Like if, like again, if Ingram would have kind of, if he had all of these difficulties in terms of fit on offense, and he was somebody who killed himself on defense,

killed himself on both sides of the glass. It'd be like, you know what? We're going to get all of this other stuff that's going to make us much better. Even if the fit on offense is clunky, he's doing all of this complimentary shit that's going to raise our level. Like, he refuses to do anything besides try to get, you know, 25 points on 18 shots. Yeah. Like, that's his ultimate, like, to him, that's the best Brandon Ingram outcome of a game.

If Ingram had had his Andrew Wiggins level realization of, oh, I can just defend hard and rebound and space the floor. And then in select moments, I will be deployed as a one-on-one option and one-on-one score. That's a valuable version of Brandon Ingram. The version that we have in reality does not play with Scotty Barnes. And so given that you just gave Scotty Barnes potentially $270 million, I would not try to bring in players who are going to make that process. expect more difficult of Scotty Barnes succeeding. Yeah. Also paid quickly in Barrett is on a pretty happy contract.

Also, Ingram doesn't do anything in transition. He's like a slow guy. Yep. So what about Maccabi Tel Aviv for Brandon Ingram? What do you guys think about that? I think he did quite well there. Well, how about this? I have two teams here that would, in theory,

just be making a talent grab. If we're saying that it's tough to export Ingram for the reasons you laid out, What about teams that are bad that just need to get better players in the door? I have the Trail Blazers written down Robert Williams, Jeremy Grant as a return plus picks, and the Bulls, who, as we've said, are kind of rebooting, but sort of not. And so can you turn your future picks into Brandingham? Do either of those make any sense? The Blazers become a league pass lock for me if something like this happened,

just so I could watch Ingram, watch dominate in the game. not set a real screen for him in pick and roll. That would be chef's kiss. I think the problem with both these scenarios is to what end? And the problem with Brandon Ingram in general is to what end? I think

we just saw basically the best case scenario for Brandon Ingram as a focal point of a team. And that was the Pelicans being a very solid regular season team fairly credible with a pretty hard cap on them during the playoffs and Granted, that was, injuries had a lot to do with that as well.

It's not squarely on him. But he's a very complex player to invest your future in. And so if you are the Blazers, yeah, Brandon Ingram is a more talented shot creator than basically anyone they have on their roster right now. But by bringing him on the team, you give Scoot Henderson fewer reps, give Shaden Sharp fewer reps. You're not investing in the guys you actually want to invest in.

And if you're the Bulls, I would imagine the Bulls version of a package is probably not a terrible price to get someone as talented as Brandon Ingram in the door. But why would they do it just to get a worse version of Demar de Rosen, frankly? What do you guys think about this? Pat Riley and Eric Spolcher get on the phone with Brandon Ingram and his people and say, yo, we'll pay you, but here's the program. And they turned him into some heat cycle. Highly unlikely.

Sure. But I would love to hear that conversation. like yo, like nobody wants you. Your career is damn there in a rut. Okay. Who's going to volunteer to like pay you $200 million? We'll do it, but this is the program. I think that conversation, if it could happen,

happens after a dry trade season. And then he hits free agency. And it's like no one is giving him the offer or the opportunity he wants. And then the heat, you know, just log that call. You know, just a quick check in to see how in touch with reality, Brandon Ingram is. That's going to be the moment for him is when he hits the market next summer. I think it's telling that he have gotten to the point where if someone is just like a distressed asset, like just bring him on board and just like throw them into CrossFit. We'll figure it out

with them. What they did with Dion Waiters for 40 games is something I will never forget. I don't know what the heater doing. I want to talk about them a little later. I think they're a little strap for cash. So I would be unlikely to get them in the mix for a trade option. The only other team I have written down here is the rocket. Same sort of logic is like a talent grab just because they need more of an adult version of what they already have. But I don't know. I don't think you're trading. Is this the Javieri Smith at the five rockets?

Well, that's the other thing. I also don't know how to make the best version of the rocket. So I don't know who they would trade. Like maybe they would trade Jabari. I would want Jabari as if I'm the Pelicans. Can't trade you. But I don't think you're trading him. I don't think you're trading Fred Van Vli,

who I think would actually be pretty awesome in the New Orleans as well. But if we're just saying all these players would be better in New Orleans, those are probably not the players you're trading. Yeah. I think of all these options, the Warriors feel the most realistic to me just because of the desperation, but even more realistic than Golden State is I think New Orleans just ends up keeping him. I don't think there's going to be a great offer out there. And they're going to reach a point where they at least roll it out with DeJante Murray as a part of the team and say,

like, let's give it a chance. Let's see how it works and revisit some of these potential trade talks later. I just don't know that they're going to get bowled over at this point in time. It's crazy because Griff used to love Brandon Ingram, and Brandon Ingram was the centerpiece of that AD deal. To see that it's come to this, it's tough. Best player when they made the playoffs a few years ago when Zion was hurt. And now we're at the point where he might be Rob's least favorite player in the entire league.

He's just a tough hang. He is. He's one of the hardest players to, like, rate and quality. in the league because he is so clearly talented. He's talented, man. And he's also so clearly like an impediment to playing series styles. He's Tulsie as hell. Yep.

Like, I mean, he clearly cares. He's not like some, you know, he's not like Ben Simmons or something like that. You know, like he's serious about the craft. It's just, it just hasn't borne out in the way that we thought it would. I would like him a lot more. I would like him a lot more if he just guarded anybody. but if all you're going to do is offense and your offense is kind of designed

to be sort of middling, that's a hard sell for me. Honestly, sounds like a future and former Laker. Doesn't defend. All offense? Just gives him in there. Yeah, where's the DeAngelo Russell trade offer here?

We could put it together if you want. I could work the trade machine real quick. Yeah, I kind of agree with you guys. I do wonder if there are teams that want to just make something happen that will get something over the next few weeks, but I'm not a big Ingram optimist to begin with, so it's tough for me to really push back on anything here. Why don't we talk about Philly, who completed its Death Star, its summer shopping spree by getting Caleb Martin from the Miami Heat, four years, 32 million, reportedly

turned down five for 65 earlier in the summer, which is a tough one. So in totality, here is the full usage of Darryl Morey's precious cap space. We have Paul George, Caleb Martin, Andre Drummond, Kelly Ubre, and Eric Gordon. They still have KJ. Martin's cap hold, so they might work a trade that way.

Pretty good, Rob, overall. I'm actually kind of surprised that they were able to get the type of guys that they got after giving such a large lump sum to Paul George. Pretty solid rotation, at least the start of one. I think that's the only thing I would quival with is the idea that their shopping spree is done here because they do still need to fill out the rest of this roster

with actual live bodies who can give you good minutes, especially when of the guys that you listed, how many of them are pretty frequent and pretty concerning injury risks on a regular season basis? They're going to need to just fill time with some of these guys is what we would expect. And if they're able to do that with some minimums, then I think the Sixers are going to be in pretty good shape.

Yeah, I love Caleb Martin. You know, even if I've all the big, shots I've seen to make were over the course of three series and, you know, one freaking playoff run. But what of three series it was, was? I know. I'm just saying, like, I just like the idea that in the playoffs, Philly can throw out Caleb Martin, Kelly, Ubray, Paul George's perimeter sort of disruptors defensively around

what Joelle is going to be doing at the basket, right? Like, I think that's really dope. And, you know, like, a low-maintenance. Like these are guys that are just going to work around all of the gravity that's created by Maxie and Embed and then Paul George, you know, playing off of that. And so I think they got a terrific call. Like Eric Gordon's not going to be counted upon to do much. But, yeah, bringing Kelly Ubrae back. I thought he was pretty good against the Knicks, honestly.

Like, he gave them some good minutes against Brunson, like actually made Brunson work his ass off in a bunch of moments in that series. And so, yeah, I think they've, you got to give them an A plus for the offseason, man, in the hall. Like, the pieces actually make sense next to each other. There's a clear vision to who they're going to be, what they're aspiring to be. Like, it's clear who they're trying to be. And so, yeah, I got to give it up to Darrell and them, man. They did their thing. Yeah, the combination of moves to get Ubre back at a reasonable number, in particular to fit into exception money,

and then to get Caleb Martin like this, those are huge swings. and huge swings in kind of the overall free agent market, because those are two guys who could help any number of teams, and not only do they fit the complexion, as you're saying, was of what the Sixers are trying to build, but they add some nice variety among the wing talent that you do have. All the things that you don't want Paul George to have to do at his age, say pick up perimeter threats full court,

that's Kelly Ubray's job, and he just showed that he can do it at a really high level. Yeah, in addition to getting star power in there, which obviously they satisfied with Paul George, I thought their shopping list should be wing defenders, because as we saw last year, they were pretty good when they had guys like even Batum just flying around. They're able to do stuff in the middle of the lineup, but also a backup center and getting Drummond to spell Embed for his inevitable 20 games where he's going to miss. I think he's going to be super important. I think

it's really instructive to remember that earlier in the season with just Melton, Batum, and Harris in the midst of Maxi and Embed, this was probably one of the best starting lineups in basketball, ball. It was a 34 net rating in 219 minutes. And so now we're functionally filling that with Paul George, which good God. Ubre, you would presume would start. And then Caleb Martin as the functional four there. Like, that's pretty damn good with little to work with. I do think Rob's right. You need to like fill in the back end here. We'll see what they could do. But like honestly, this is where more he tends to differentiate himself from the rest of the league where he tends to find guys. Like maybe lately it's been former rockets. And he's been.

been a little too overly ambitious to roll back like the Daniel House experience and some of those guys. But like finding the Ricky council, the fourth types. Like we need more of that there. And like historically he's done that. So I find it hard to to not overvalue where the six years are going to be in the East here. Like I'm finding it hard to put them anything lower than like maybe third in the conference right now behind the Celtics and the Knicks. The Knicks we didn't even really talk about when they made that deal because we weren't potting. But like, I'm very bullish on the Knicks. I think the Sixers are right there. Well, we should say in terms of the players that the Sixers could reasonably get, in addition to some of the younger developmental

like G-League pipeline kind of prospects, I think getting back Kyle Lowry would be a big thing for them. The weird thing about this summer's free agent market, and you can see this in the Caleb Martin move in particular, is there are really good players who are going for seven, to $10 million. And there could be some players out there on the market right now who, like, Lonnie Walker, for example, good NBA player could be of use to the Sixers. Let's say he's not really getting anything that's that attractive to him. Takes a one-year minimum to play for a contender like Philadelphia,

plug a spot, show what you can do on a team that actually matters after playing in Brooklyn last year. Those are the kinds of swings that I think could work out in their favor given the way that the overall market is moving, which is not favoring guys. like Caleb Martin, not favoring guys like Lonnie Walker or Kyle Lowry or really the sorts of mid-level and mid-tier free agents who at this point are the only guys available. Yeah, and I think what is happening is that we're in a transition period in terms of the salary cap.

And that's the friction that we're seeing with a lot of these deals and how they're unfolding. But, you know, it's tough when you know your number is called, your numbers up in a transition year in the league, man. the cap spike hasn't caught up. Like, eventually the cap is going to be rising by 10% and everybody's raises are only going to be like 8%. But we're not at that moment right now. The middle class.

They've abolished the middle class. This literally happens every CBA to Waz's point. Thanks, neoliberalism. It's true, though, but... Shipped our jobs to Vietnam. Teams are not going to stop paying the best players as much as possible. What's going to have?

and his guys in this range are going to get squeezed out and you're right there. So maybe this plays more into the Sixers hand there. If that was something that they forecasted, that guys like that would get squeezed, that it would make getting some of these lower tier deals easier to roster here. But what do we think about the East overall here? I kind of mentioned I'm pretty high on the Sixers here. I think the Celtics very clearly best in class unless like Christops just like loses a leg to gangrene in the midst of

whatever injury, just rare leg disorder that he has nowadays. From there, Rob, do you go Knicks or what do you think? Well, I want to make it clear that the Celtics are not just the best team, but a tier into themselves, I think, at the top of the conference.

All these other teams are trying to get to that level or trying to get in their vicinity. I would say the next tier is the Knicks, the Sixers. and I'll say the bucks in that order probably if I had to rank them. I trust the Knicks

in terms of staying healthy. I trust them in terms of what we just saw from them in the playoffs. I trust them in terms of what the McAil fit will mean for them and the way that'll kind of transform some of their lineups and certainly the rotation overall and what he's able to kind of help them stitch together I think is going to be really important.

After that, I would say what Pacers, Cavs, and Magic are probably kind of the next teams up tier wise? Yeah, I would agree with that. Like, yeah, the paces, the calves and the magic are, you know, like can't reasonably say they should expect of themselves that they would beat the Celtics in a playoff series, right?

No. I think the Knicks, the Sixers, the Bucks, like, when they go into training camp, they're saying to themselves, we're going to be, we're gunning for the Celtics and we're going to beat them. Not that it's necessarily true, but that's what they're saying to themselves. I don't think the magic can reasonably walk into training camp. this fall and say to themselves, yeah, we're gunning for the top dogs in the Eastlake.

That wouldn't be reasonable, same for the Pacers, right? And so, yeah, I agree with you in terms of that delineation. And at the top, if I'm just looking at it on paper, the Sixers have an MVP, a clear borderline all-star starter, another all-star starter-level type of player, and a bunch of guys that are pretty freaking complimentary to what they do.

Like on paper, to me, they should be the number two team. But like, you know, I'm sure you guys saw the departed in that scene when Leo's yelling at his shrink. And he's like, I know, you know, what I've learned about myself is in those moments when, you know, it gets really tough. My hand doesn't shake. The six has got a bunch of guys who I've seen their handshake in big moments. And so for that reason, I put them number three. I'll be honest. I don't disagree that the Celtics are the clear-cut one.

I think I'm just more worried about the Christops thing than any of you guys. Like, sure. He's not going to play until next year. Yeah. And I'm just like, I've been racking my brain kind of slowly. I think it's weird that he played in the finals and he's not going to play until next year. I think that's weird. Yeah.

It's just like, how many guys have we seen show up in the middle of the season and gone on to have like a pretty normal good season? And if we're saying that Christops puts them over the top, I'm like significantly worried it. It's a little tough to know because it really requires a medical degree. So maybe Waz should be the one leading this conversation. It's just like, so for me it's like, yeah, it's one. But like I'm worried that the margin might slip if he isn't as what we think he's going to be. Some of that could be true.

Here's where I come to this conversation. I would be shocked if the Celtics are not the number one seed in the East. they had such a huge buffer last year even without Chris Staps playing games for the majority of the regular season they're going to win a ton of regular season games and if they're entering the playoffs from that point and that's when Chris Staps might actually be available

for one their path to at least the conference finals is very clear and I'm just kind of assuming more or less that that's going to happen maybe they get upset by one of these other very good teams in the east I would be very surprised if it happens before a conference final versus teams like the Knicks and the Sixers, if they end up in two, three, are going to have to go through each other to get to that point. And so I think the path for the Celtics is a little easier because they are such a good

regular season team, because they know how to take care of their business, because their best guys stay healthy year after year after year. And that can change on a fluke, on a trifle. We've seen that happen before. But in terms of like a betting probability or just how stable they feel as a contender, they feel stable in a way that some of these other teams don't or some of these other teams still need to prove something. Yeah, I agree with that.

The Celtics, when Christaps is at his very best, are like, wow, okay, this is like scary good. I think when he's like, you know, 60% there, they're still fucking elite. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's not like the two Js where those guys have to be great. You know, they have to hit the mark, possession after possession. They're carrying the low. right, Chris Taps isn't carrying the load. He's taking something that is damn freaking good to, you know, the stratosphere, right?

And if he's not, you know, just like, again, like game one in the finals where it just looked insane, where he's just draining 28 footers and it's like, how the hell does anybody guard this thing? Even if he's not that, man, like they should feel like they could get to the finals, you know? All it took was one title and one knee injury we've never heard of to completely pin it. pivot us all around the Celtics to now where Justin is the skeptical voice among us. Yeah. But still like high on them. Yeah.

More skeptical than you guys. You're right. I mean, my thing about the Celtics is like it's, it's never been a question of the kind of talent that they have. I just think they executed at a level in the playoffs, in the finals, particularly that,

you know, you got to give it to them. Like they're playing above their heads right now. Or they were in the finals. And so I expect them to. carry that over. The difference, too, as far as you move past the Celtics, I can more easily imagine a scenario where the Knicks play super well for the talent that

they have and just bump up against the limit of what they can do against a team like Boston. If Philly plays great with the personnel that they have, they can beat Boston, right? They have the right combination of talent and skill and positional, like, positional advantages to poke at what the Celtics can't do as well. And so that positions them in a really unique place in the conference as one of the few teams, one of the few contenders, certainly, they can actually challenge Boston on their own terms. Yeah, and that's part of my calculus here as well. I do wonder if the path is more difficult, if the Knicks are even in the same range as the Celtics, if the Sixers are on the same level as those teams, I do think it becomes more difficult. I do think you're right, Rob. I think Embed being kind of the ultimate counter to the spread out Celtics is really terrifying. Like if they do get to the playoffs, and I know Embed's track record in the playoffs has been checkered, but like if everyone is reasonably healthy, like that's the last team. If I'm boss, then I want to face. And also the Knicks, like, I think the Knicks are fucking electric.

Like, they need to figure something out with their backup center. Apparently, they carved out some money with the ultimate deal that they did for McHale Bridges. But, like, I love the Mikhail Bridges deal. We didn't talk about it at the time. There's a lot of hand-wringing over, like, what they paid in terms of picks. I do that every fucking time because, like, the weird Nova Knicks thing is indeed weird. Like, I can't believe that they're just setting up a college team in the pros, let alone in Madison Square Garden.

But the compounding effect it had on the other guys was tangible. Like Dante D. Vincenzo is a consistent three-point shooter who makes every fucking play you would want him to at the end of games. Josh Hart, he's not Taj Gibson, but he's definitely number two in the Hall of Fame Tibbs guys of being able to just throw his body around and play 48 fucking minutes at this point. Like it wasn't just Jalen Brunson being an MVP candidate. All those guys got better. And if you add Bridges, who's still super young, and I don't think we've seen the best of him yet.

Like, we got 3&D McKill Bridges with the Sons. And then we got like almost over his head score McHill Bridges. I think there's like a nice middle ground there that the Knicks are going to get. And if they sign them to an extension, like you're going to have five, six years of this guy. So I'm really high in what the Knicks are going to be. Yeah, I think if you are bullish on the Knicks and their prospects against its Celtics team, especially one that's got to compromise Chris Staps for Zingis, it's like they're going to muddy up the mucks,

switch everything, physical as hell, crash the boards like crazy, just make it a slop fest. And they have now the horses to execute that. You know, and it might sound like I'm damning with fade praise, but like they have the ability to make it nasty and disgusting. That's a talent. Like slopping it up is a real talent.

in basketball. Like they have that, like, they are going to put pressure on the boards at all times, right? Like, man, like, they're not going to be able to score for real. Like, they don't have any one-on-one players still outside of Jalen Brown. But, excuse me, Jalen Brunson, excuse me. Can I just say I think Julius Randall might be underrated now? I think we've come full circle on him as well. Like, I think he's going to have a good year. I think we put you in a cave for too long or something. What's going on with your takes today?

He might have a good regular season, Justin, but in the playoffs, he will not be a weapon. Yeah, we'll see. But I do think they needed him at times during the playoffs, where if they just had another ball handler, so maybe it's more about the role rather than Randall himself. But if he could fill that capably, it could be pretty good. But think about it, they needed him because, and, you know, it probably could have worked against the Pacers. Julius Randall wouldn't have did shit against the Celtics, y'all. I'm sorry.

That shit just would not have happened. But I think McHale Bridges can do some stuff against the Celtics. And that's where I'm really optimistic is, yeah, he's not the one-on-one creator in a way that can truly relieve Jalen Brunson. But when the Knicks are in the mix and they're moving the ball and everything is swinging, everything is flowing, you saw a few too many possessions for them where it would find Josh Hart. And he's able to drive and almost to make something happen, but not quite. And you plug in McHale Bridges in that spot, a guy who can. hit pull-ups, who's a better three-point shooter, who's more of a threat off the three that forces the close out that then allows him to drive. Everything just gets a little bit cleaner.

And you can do that same exercise, plug in and Mikhail, for basically anyone on their team who is not Jalen Brunson. Like, he has that sort of all-around game. And if anything, we're talking about his less effective side of the ball. He's going to be one of their best defensive players right out of the gate. Yeah. So if we're tearing this out, I agree. Maybe Celtics should be won onto themselves. Then I would say Nixon in Philly on a different tier. And I'm going to say this and you guys are going to hate it. But I kind of think like the magic might have a fucking awesome season next year. We'll see about the playoffs. But I think this is going to be an absolute meat grinder of a team in the regular season. Like I could see them

winning like 50 games or so. And all of a sudden like they're the three or four teams. Is Franz Wagner going to make a three-pointer in this process? Well, that's the thing. Like if he doesn't and they just add KCP and potentially a healthy Jonathan Isaac to what they already had. Like, who is scoring against this team? It's just like, I think they're like the classic, we're going to just ground in behind. They're basically the iron curtain for the NFL of defensive teams. And they just got better defensively.

And we'll see with the offense. Maybe the space helps Paulo in ways that we weren't expecting. Maybe Franz Wagner, it was just a really, really bad year. And he turns around. I don't know why he got a. full max immediately. I mean, this is the way it go. I think we know, which is this is

what happens with promising young prospects, whether you're Franz Wagner or Scotty Barnes, and I know there's a gap between those two guys. There's a pretty big gap between those two guys. But if you're very good and you're part of a team's core, you get paid, especially on your first deal. It's just not like a many

questions asked situation anymore. Well, I think what you're saying is this is how it goes, but I think we could credibly argue is like it shouldn't go like that? Yes. That's fair. Like,

I don't know why I shouldn't think this isn't going to end the way Brandon Ingram's deal is ending. Wow. That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know why like it's a guarantee that everybody's going to think this is great. I mean, can I put a qualifier on that right now, which is that Franz Wagner at his age currently is a better defender than Brandon Ingram has ever been?

That's fair. That's fair. We don't really pay for defense, though. No, but maybe you should. Pay for offense of pop. Maybe you should. No, I mean, I think this is both an NBA thing and also a magic thing, because in addition to any young player who, like, projects it maybe being an all-star automatically gets the max all of a sudden. Like, that being young and talented is one of the biggest rackets in sports where it's just like you could ride that for so long. I also think like the magic have proven time and time again that with all. all of their precious cap space and whatnot. They tend to be a little bit more, dare I say, conservative with it. And I do think their moves, in addition to Wagner and KCP, probably showed that where they renegotiated and extended Isaac giving him money up front. But then the deal gets way more easy as it goes along.

Gary Harris, they brought back, but he's on a team option for the following year. Mo Wagner, they bring back, but he's on a team option for the next year. So they're prioritizing flexibility and keeping the cost load down. the road. And so I get why they would do it because this is their typical MO. Well, they're also betting on they were already the fifth seat in the East last season with the fourth youngest roster in the league. They're still looking for rotation spots for Anthony Black and Jet Howard. They have prospects in house who could become players for them, could become real parts of the rotation. Jamal Mosley was going 10 deep and wasn't even playing

those guys yet. So if they're able to give them any real minutes, and I think Anthony Black in particular is a player who's really exciting. a little odd to fit. And if you're able to find a good role for him, or if he more importantly, kind of seizes a role, that could be a really important development for the magic. But ultimately, they're betting on development. As a team in their position should,

they're betting on Paulo and Franz to continue to take steps forward. They're betting on Jalen Suggs. They're betting on everything to continue to coales. And they in Indiana are kind of interesting parallels in this way where there's a lot of very young, good to great players on these teams. And one of them is very offensive dominant. one of them is very defense dominant

and how they're able to bridge the gap and fill out on the other side of the ball is I think going to determine which of those teams ends up seizing some opportunity here especially if we think of, for example, the Bucks as being maybe a vulnerable member of that next tier, I wouldn't be surprised if either Orlando or Indiana or both ends up supplanting Milwaukee

at some point this season. I'm worried about the Bucks for that reason. In the regular season... What a rough off season they've had. Yeah, Torin Prince didn't do it for you? God. I was really high on Dilan Wright on his fourth tour of being just like a hanging on to a competitive roster. I'll never give up on Dillon, right?

I'll never give up. But you're right, though. I do think like these are the teams on the upswing that we saw in the Western Conference that just kind of blew through whatever cap we put on young teams. And we're just like awesome regular season teams. I can see the buck sliding as a result of that. I don't know what to make of the Cavs too. Like they could be the number two seed. they could be in the play in next year and you could sell me on both.

Yeah. Why is Jonathan Isaac getting Patrick Williams money? Is that just injury? Why is Patrick Williams getting Patrick Williams money? Can you answer to that first? He was, he's so much better than that dude. Like, I know the injuries have been pretty freaking horrific, but golly, bro. I mean, they're pretty bad.

They're really bad. So basically, he gets $25 million next year as a result of this contract. And then it goes down to 15. And then 14 and a half was just $8 million guaranteed. And then the next two years are not guaranteed. So they're just like slowly betting that they can take advantage of money. Yeah. I mean, for the magic, this is an incredible structure,

an incredible contract structure that's very team friendly. It's just hard with these guys who are injured all the time and who have chronic injuries piled on chronic injuries to be able to bet on them in a like $100 million. basis. That's where you get into real trouble as a franchise. And so you see how they got there. And frankly, for someone who's in Jonathan Isaac's position, getting like 25 million next season is a big win for him. That's for a great defensive player who we still don't really know how he plugs into any kind of functional offense. That's a, that's a huge deal. Keeps him in Florida.

No state taxes, among other things. He's running. That's true. The one team we didn't mention in all this is the Miami Heat. That man hates CRT. Do we think that heat are any better next season? Because they really haven't done much. Just the weirdest offseason, man. I thought it was pretty curious that they extended Bam in the midst of Jimmy Butler

making a very public show of how much he wanted an extension. I thought that was a very pointed decision. And now Jimmy came back and was like, no, I'm not going to sign an extension with anyone. We're all good. I'm going to play this out, which sounded more like I'm just going to have one last fuck you season and get the hell out of here. But I don't know if that's the worst thing for the heat.

They need that guy to play with some motivation just to show up more than 60 times in a regular season. But I don't know. Like, are they better? Are we just hoping that Jimmy plays more? And then that's it. That's the fix. That's the solve.

That's what Pat Rowley was yelling at people about. about at the press cup. We need guys to play. Tyler Hero, too. Yeah. That seems to be the solution. And the crazy thing is every, before every freaking offseason, we get reports out of Miami. Yo, they're big game hunting.

They're whale hunting. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All of that type of, you know, hyperbole and innuendo. Not this off season. They ain't been in on Brandon Ingram. They ain't been on Zach Levine. They haven't been on in on anything. happening. Obviously, Donovan Mitchell signed his deal pretty early so that like that was over,

but they're not involved in anything happening. So I guess they're fine. They're good. It's such a weird offseason. Look, having a full season of Tara Rozier is not nothing. I think that'll help them some, but it really is about how much Jimmy and Tyler Hero play and whether they play well. That was kind of the quiet thing about Jimmy Butler's season is not only did he miss games, but he just was like half-assing it for a lot of the year. He needs to take the regular season pretty seriously if the heater going to be any better than they were. And they're not in a position to be any worse. Like this is a team that does not have the same room for error that they might believe that they do.

And so I don't mind some of the moves around the periphery. Alec Berks, I think is a great pickup for a team that needs some juice. Come on. We're not doing this with Alec Berks again. We've done this seven times over the past like six years. have you watched some of these Miami Heat players try to dribble? Yeah. And you tell me, Alec Berks could not be useful to them.

Tyler in the playoffs was basically their primary ball handler. This is what I'm saying. Because Scary Terry and Jimmy were out. Well, that's the thing. If Scary Terry isn't the one doing that, then what the fuck is he even doing on the roster? Well, but it's kind of the same motivation, right? Like you trade for Rozier to get a version of that kind of juice.

You bring in Berks for some spot minutes. He's not going to play a ton. But he can give you something off your. bench, hopefully. That said, losing Caleb Martin, one of the few guys on your roster who was actually a playoff guy, pretty brutal for a team that cannot afford to just be draining talent. Also, who's playing perimeter defense on this team? Because Haywood Highsmith, also a free agent at this point.

Yeah, so is also a playoff guy. Is Jimmy going to be their go-to score and also their best defender? Bam out of bio, I think is probably their best perimeter defender at this point. Yeah. All right. So that's something to look forward to in Miami. Yeah. Notice we did not list them in our tiers for the Eastern Conference. I would say for good and fair reason.

Okay. Let's keep an eye on that. I have to imagine some of these teams that have just been painfully inactive. We'll do something over the next couple of weeks as we kind of dribble out the remainder of the trade guys. But we'll keep an eye on that one. Why don't we wrap it there? Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Eddie Ocampo.

Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Tucker Tashden. And thank you guys for listening. We'll be back on Wednesday. We'll see you then.