The Ringer NBA Show - Dennis Smith Jr.‘s Unraveling Drama in Dallas, Plus All-Star Ballots | The Corner 3 (Ep. 371)

Episode Date: January 18, 2019

Dennis Smith Jr. is the latest high draft pick to become uncomfortable with the ball being taken out of his hands. What does that mean for him and Luka Doncic (18:00)? Then we run down our All-Star ballots for this season (28:18). To wrap up, Kevin interviews Matt Quinn from the band Mt. Joy—a lifelong Sixers fan—about his favorite Sixers-Celtics media conspiracies and the overlap between touring bands and NBA players (39:42). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor and Jonathan Tjarks Guest: Matt Quinn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This episode of the Corner 3 is brought to you by Brilliant Earth. Brilliant Earth is the global leader in ethically sourced fine jewelry. Create your own custom engagement ring or choose from their unique designs made by master jewelers and enjoy free shipping on all U.S. orders. From now until February 3rd, you'll receive a complimentary pair of diamond studs with the purchase of an engagement ring. To see terms of the special offer and to shop all of Brilliant Earth selections, go to BrilliantEarth.com slash ringer NBA. Now it's time for the Corner 3.

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is The Corner 3, joining me from Dallas, Texas. It's Ringer staff writer Jonathan Charks. What's up, guys? It's going to be a weird pod today. There's no Danny. We'll see how this chemistry goes. He was kind of the glue guy, I feel like. Does that make us to pull up to today or something, Sharks? A lot of inefficient takes. I could see that happening. Oh, hmm. We'll see. It could be the N1 layup. Later in the show, I'll be joined by my friend Matt Quinn from the band Mountjoy,

whose band was in Ringer Studios yesterday on Thursday to record a session for our YouTube. page. So that's just a little thing we'll have at the end of the show. This is why KOC's hip, I don't know what that even is, to be honest, this band. Mount Joy, check Montcharks. I know rock's not your thing, but I'm just old man, new music. I just can't even get into it anymore. It's terrible. They have a classic sound. I feel like they're one of those bands that can bridge old school classic rock fans with new school rock fans. Really good, really good. Anyway, today's podcast is engineered by Isaac Lee and it's produced by Bobby Wagner. We're recording on Friday, January 18th at 9.15 a.m. Pacific. Charks! What the heck is happening to the Oklahoma City Thunder?

Well, I mean, if you lose to the Lakers without LeBron, like, you're in a pretty bad spot. The Lakers just lost the Cavs at home and they beat the O'C. That's not a good sign. It was another rough game for Russell Westbrook, 7.30 last night. And it's like, oh, home, you know, just another day for us. We're used to this. 7.30. Yeah, this happens far too often where Westbrook becomes Westbrook. He's shooting 23% on catch and shoot 3s, 37% on pull-up 2s, 22% on pull-up 3s, only 65% of the line, only 49% in transition,

only an effective field goal percentage of 44% in pick and roll. All these are really bad, and it's career lows for him. It's not like efficiency has ever been as hallmark trait charts, but this is really low. This is really different. It feels like it's more than a cold streak. I mean, there are levels to inefficiency, right? Like, you can be inefficient and be okay,

but he's, like, been one of the least efficient players in the NBA, and he takes, like, 20 shots a game. Though I will say, I mean, in his defense, like, I guess it's a weird thing to say, but he's been doing this all season. It isn't like that he just started playing bad. Like, really, his struggles are kind of baked into the cake and OK, see, at this point.

I think what's going on right now, really, is that their bench has been killing them. Like, they've missed Nerlin's Noel a lot. They have absolutely zero depth. Never would have expected to say that entering the season, but it's true. Yeah, so without New Orleans And he came back last night

But without him in They've had to move Jeremy Grant To the backup five Stagger his minutes Which puts Patrick Patterson In the lineup And Patterson has just been cooked all season Like we look at their plus minuses

In this last six games Like Patterson, TLC Hamadio Lado, Abdel Nader Like they're all absolutely killing the team after After their top five players There isn't much talent there

Yeah last night I think one of the issues is without Noel Their pick and roll defense Up and down the board has just been awful, especially last night. Lakers had 40 possessions with the pick and roll and scored 47 points. That's a dominant number. They were scoring a backdoor cuts out of the pick and roll.

Offensive rebounds, lobs for Zubots, pull-up, open pull-up, threes, wide-open layups. The great Zubots was... The Zubots are happening. Zubots looking like a Hall of Famer last night. That was something else. And I think, you know, when it comes to the depth, Russell Westbrook, this is a time where he would need to make it up. make it up with the lack of depth.

I mean, look, not to compare him to James Harden, but Harden with all the injuries, has kept that team afloat. And right now, Oklahoma City, losing five of six, losing eight of their last 13, is really sliding. And Russell Westbrook still hasn't elevated his play.

Paul George is still putting up MVP numbers. He's still defending at a high level. But Russell Westbrook has not. And I, I mean, I don't want to say I'm worried about Russ, but for the last two seasons, his free throw percentage has been down. His shooting numbers are down. And Royce Young from ESPN had a really nice article about how Russ being such a creature of habit

with the NBA not allowing players to go behind the three-point line before free throws has knocked him out of his rhythm, something he's done his entire life. Russ, a guy who is shot above 80% nearly every season of his career from the line, I wonder if those struggles have started to trickle into his pull-up shooting, into his spot-up shooting, and that overall just plummeted his efficiency. Here's the thing, though, like Hardin raising his game, Hardin can score from anywhere on the floor, so it almost doesn't matter who's around him, right? Yeah, exactly.

If you're pulling up from 35 feet, then whatever, like that shot's always there. Russ has never been a great shooter. He has to get to the rim. And the problem, I think with Russ for the longest time, he was so athletic and he was so aggressive that he could create cracks to the rim, even with no space around him. But now, I think he's 30 now. And still, OKC has no real shooting around. him.

So it's like there's nowhere for him to go and he can't pull up outside either. I think, I mean, I think to me like, Russ needs as he gets older, he needs players to compliment him more. And I still don't really think, OK, see, compliments Russ on offense. Though, of course, the question is, do you want a ability to compliment Russ on offense anymore? I don't know. In other words, you're thinking it's more physical decline and not something that could be,

you know, a mental block where the free throw shooting is just manifesting in other ways. Well, I just think like as he gets older, he's. needs bigger driving lanes to the rim, right? And I think, like, he doesn't really have it. Like, he's still playing with a lot of non-shooters on the floor most of the time. And now it's like, okay, there's non-shooters everywhere. We're going to back off Russ and, like, pack the paint. I mean, there's only so much he can do.

I mean, that was the odd thing about last science game. Oklahoma City shot 22 or 54 from 3. And part of the reason why they, A, made so many and B shot so many, was because the Lakers were just sagging off, allowing open shots. I'm not sure this team, with the shooters on this team, Ferguson at 6 of 12. Paterson 3 or 4. I like Ferguson. I like Ferguson.

I do, but he's not a 50% three-point shooter. And even Russ is probably not going to shoot five or 12 most nights. Oh, not probably. Definitely not. You can take out the probably. To your point, their supporting cast around Russell Westbrook does not have many potent shooters, which is what he would need ideally.

Yeah, because I think what they've always been thinking is like, okay, we've got Russ. Russ will be the offense. We'll put defense around him. And that's kind of always been their formula. But it's like as Russ gets older, he can't just be the offense. He needs more help.

I don't really... And I'm not sure how they get it to him. I mentioned earlier that the pick and roll stat, Lakers scoring 47 points on 40 pick and roll possessions. Are you seeing anything from Oklahoma City's defense that has led to their regression as of late or it was last night more a case of the Lakers just executing at a super, super high level,

which I thought was probably their best overall offensive game of the season, especially without LeBron. I mean, I wonder if it's more about O'KC than L.A. Because, like, you look at LA the last couple weeks. I think before this game, like, their last two games, they beat the Bulls and they beat the Thunder. And before they lost the Cavs at home. So I wonder, this is like less about an LA Renaissance and more about OKC. And I think OKC just stretched in.

I think they have, like, five good defensive players and they all start. Like, I'm just not sure this team as currently construct. I think they need all their players back. Like, what's up with the Breinas? What's up with Roberson? Like, they need everyone. Yeah. I think for the Lakers last night, they ran.

as far as I can tell, more pick and rolls and a lot of double screens more so than I have, I think all season long, especially with Zubots in the game, that's something I'd like to see them do more often. And by the way, Zubots last night, that's just, that's not the first time he's had a really good game this season. He dominated on Christmas Day against the Warriors. And right now, I'm looking at Javille McGee ever since he returned. He does not look the same.

He's playing very lethargic. Tyson Chandler, you know, solid, but he's old. He's more limited player. They're more skilled than those guys, right? So without LeBron, LeBron can make those guys lives so easy. And without LeBron, you kind of have to work to get your points a little more.

And Zubotch has just got way more offensive skill than Tyson or Javail. I think Zubats is due for an increase in minutes. I think he needs to be the number one guy in that three-man, big-man rotation. I mean, I think until LeBron comes back, which whenever that's going to be. But until he comes back,

they need centers who can kind of do more than just catch lobs probably. Because these other guys can't really create shots for them in the same way LeBron could. Yeah, so LeBron will be out on Saturday night against the Rockets. we'll see if he returns Monday. Don't really know yet.

It doesn't seem like it. It doesn't seem like it. All the quotes coming out like we'll taking our time running on those timeline. I mean, then again, here's my thing. Can you trust anything that's coming out? When this first started, it's like day to day, day to day. And here we are. That's true.

But I feel like I'm leading at this point, I'm leaning more towards pessimism about LeBron and optimism about this injury. I just don't see them rushing him back given his minutes load. And we all saw what happened on Christmas Day. It didn't look like there was a minor injury. I believe Rich Paul said this to the athletic. I think he said if it were the playoffs, he'd be playing. It's not the playoffs.

And there's no reason to rush him back because that's when you need him healthy. Yeah, they just got to find a way to stay even without him. I'm going to die out of the playoffs right, dart of top eight. Yeah, the Lakers are tied with Utah for the eight seed. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I mean, if LeBron's out two or three more weeks, I'm not sure where this team is going to be.

Probably out of the playoffs. Yeah. That would be my guess, where LeBron needs to help his team storm back and make his MVP case. And Utah's making a run right now. They're playing really well lately. They're pushing. They're 8 and 2 in the last 10 games. They've been killing it.

Donovan Mitchell, elevating his play. KOC, it's about the great Joe Ingalls. Let's be real. It's all Joe Ingalls. Always about Joe Ingalls. Always Joe Ingalls, of course. Number one player on that team, Mitchell, who's that chart?

Who's Donovan Mitchell? It's all about Joe Ingalls. I'm doing a Joe Ingalls piece next week. I might push that out there. I'm not sure. I'm not sure a bowl I'm going to be in my Joe Ingalls takes. Big feature. I'm looking forward to that.

also last night the Sixers beat the Indiana Pacers 1.20 to 96. Indiana's 3 and 3 over their last six charts. Pacer's have lost by combined 67 points and those losses against the Raptors, Celtics. And now last night the Sixers,

they're 11 and 12 against teams above 500. This team has been great all year. Is there any reason for concern with their especially recent struggles against top Eastern Conference teams? I mean, I think kind of, right? I went back and looked.

to me, the teams, if you're Indiana, the measuring sticks, right? It's Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, Toronto. There are three and six against those teams this season. And you look at the top line talent. Like, Indiana has always been winning games on, like, their depth and their roster and their overall ability, one through nine. But the top line talent's just not there. So I don't know, I'm getting a little worried about them if I'm talking about them as a contender in the East. Caitlin Cooper on SB Nation wrote a really nice article yesterday about Indiana, how they've done well, despite some of them.

their struggles, including Victor Oladipo. I think with Oladipo, there's one way to look at it. You can say his effective field goal percentage is down. True shooting is down. Three-point shooting numbers are down. But really, I wonder if maybe it was just a superb hot streak shooting the ball at the beginning of last season. He's just back to his norm.

He's aggressed a little bit to the mean? Yeah. His effective field goal percentage right now is 49.3. True shooting is 52.5. Both those numbers are pretty much identical to his career. numbers. I mean, he's taking a lot of bad pull-ups early in the clock. It feels like he's taken too many lessons from Russell Westbrook. Oh, he was a great player. He's an all-star. He's a great defender. He's improved as a passer, but the scoring has declined and as part of

Indian's offense, which isn't that good. I do worry, as you're saying, Charks, that they have enough real star power to put them on the same level of those other good. I mean, he hasn't heard, right? So he was, he has what, like, it was a knee thing for about a six, two weeks, three weeks. They came back from that. Forward to forth, I heard that that was just them playing it very conservative, that he was okay. Well, I mean, they were okay without him. Do you think they can make a trade, or do you think this is just their team?

I mean, this is one of those teams where you look at their roster and you wonder, well, what asset are you giving up to give something? Right? I mean, I don't think you want to trade Miles Turner to get something really good back. He's a defensive player of the year candidate. You're not trading Subonis, who is a six-man of the year candidate. That's the question, right? KOC. That's always a question about this team.

if two of their top three best players can play together, is this a long-term fit? Yeah. I mean, I think he, someone's been great this year, they've got to pay him pretty soon. I think if you're Indiana, you shouldn't make any panic trades.

I don't. I think with their current spot, you look ahead to the summer. You can create just loads of caps. Yeah, but is Indiana going to be a free agent destination? I know, I know. The odds are that they end up just bringing Thaddeus Young back and Bogdanovich back.

I know, I know. The odds are, that's what happens. But at least maybe you can bring those guys back and then make a really strong offer sheet on one of the restricted guys. I think I'd prefer that route rather than trading a good asset for something. I would wonder to maybe the point guards, right? They're paying 18 to Carlson and Joseph. Maybe you can move off one of them and try to get something. I agree. I think that's maybe that's what you do here. And I had heard, I think this may have been reported. If it hasn't, Corey Joseph was a guy. They could be looking to move.

Yeah, it's been out there because they like holiday. Yes, they do like holiday. And he's somebody they want to get more playing time too. I think what you were saying in terms of like, if I was like Indiana or Utah, I think I'm more trying to get guys on bigger contracts or teams want to move off of than like count free agency. Because I feel like those guys, those teams are better off using their cap space now in trades than trying to get in that mix for your elite player this summer. By the way, despite that game last night, Thadius Young, 27 points, 11 of 17, playing terrific

defense all season long, defending the best player on opposing teams. That A song is a guy ever since he was a young player on the Sixers. I didn't love him. He was a solid guy. But as, you know, he's now 30 years old, I've grown to love him as a player charse. This guy's really, really good. Yeah, he's just kind of slipped through the cracks a little bit, you know, league-wide. He's just so solid at every aspect of the game.

And he can get buckets. I mean, you look at this team, young and Bogdanovich, like no one really talked about them. But they have been, as almost as important as Eladipo, over the last two years as a resurgence. Like two six eight, six nine four, which can play both ends of the floor. Really smart players, accept their roles behind the Lidipo. They're great. We're going to have plenty of Sixers talk later in the podcast of Matt Quinn, who is hardcore Sixers fans.

But one thing Matt and I didn't discuss that I wanted to ask you about Charks was, in last night's game, Joe L.M. B'd, it was awesome. 22 points, 13 rebounds, eight assists. It's a really great game. But every single time he was on the sideline, he was getting treatment done. The lower back is bothering him, which is originally the lower back is what knocked him down the NBA draft. He had a stress fracture in his lower back. We don't know what the injury is right now.

It's sore. It's in pain. He had the knee injury earlier this season. And Bede playing through these injuries had Charles Barkley going off last night during halftime. He called the Sixers the stupidest franchise for playing their center who's in pain during a regular season game. I'm just curious about your general thoughts on that, especially what Barkley said. Should he be resting or just balance? I don't know that it's totally Philly's choice though, right?

Like Mbid wants to prove he's healthy. Mbid wants to win the MVP. Mbid wants to, like you can't just shut this guy down. Like they have enough problems managing egos as it is. I don't know that they can just shut him down whenever they want to. He's not Tim Duncan. He's on his 30s. He wants to play.

100%. I totally agree with him. Embed has even said this before about how he doesn't want to rest, how he hated the minutes restriction. This is, I think, more about Mbid saying he can manage the pain. And he did last time. He was tremendous. He was great, despite the fact he was kind of laboring out on the floor.

I think this speaks to a bigger topic where it's like with Ben Simmons, a lot of people were like, oh, should they trade Ben Simmons, you know? But really, I think besides an Anthony Davis trade, there's nothing you would trade him for. And that's partially because of who Simmons is a player, but it's also because of who Joel Embed is as a player. If Embed were to ever suffer another major injury and let's hope to God that he never does, I mean, he's one of the best players in the league. He's one of the funest players in the league to watch.

but if he ever does, suddenly this is Ben Simmons team, and suddenly you're building around Ben Simmons. Or is it? Or is it Jimmy Butler's team? I don't know. But it should be Ben Simmons team, theoretically, on paper. Tell it to Jimmy, man. He's got his own coffee mugs.

He's not trying to be out here. But he beats health is why you can't trade Ben Simmons. He is your cornerstone insurance because he's also a cornerstone player himself. Yeah, but here's the thing, though, KOC. Does Ben Simmons want to be insurance the next three? years. I mean, it's like so much of like at this level of the game, it's just like dealing with these relationships with these star players and like making them happy. I don't think he is insurance. Not yet at least. If he really falls into that third wheel role, then maybe we'll see what happens

in the playoffs. I cannot wait to watch Sixers in the playoffs. The takes that are come out of this, oh, that's going to be great, man. Next 11 games for Philadelphia is going to be tough. We'll have more Sixers talk later on the podcast. They were great last night. Speaking about third wheels, there's a second wheel that wants out of his situation. I'm going to talk about this, K. I'm off the ledge right now. Talking off this ledge. I'm very worried.

Yesterday, ESPN's Tim McMahon reported that it's plan A for the Mavericks to reconcile their relationship with second-year point guard Dennis Smith Jr. who hasn't played since January 7th, and he reportedly wants out because he's unhappy with his role behind Luca Donchich. The man said that Dallas hasn't necessarily sent him away from the team as that Dennis Smith Jr.'s camp decided that he

wants a trade because he's frustrated. And the athletics, Tim Cato, good friend of the show, and the Mavericks want Dennis Smith back on their terms, though, because Carlisle wants him playing the role that he wants him to play, and we don't know if Dennis Smith is going to accept it.

He's not on the road trip right now. Charks, how is a second-year guard? Who isn't good yet making such a power move? What's going on in Dallas? What does this man think he's Jimmy Butler? Come on. How are you going to make a power move averaging 12 points a game? I don't know.

Maybe he saw Jimmy Butler pull this. Maybe he and his agent saw this. I'm like, huh, why can't I do that? I mean, it's a weird thing. Like, I get where Dennis is coming from to a certain degree. Like, I get that, okay, I'm this point guard. I want the ball in my hands. I was the guy last year.

I don't really want to take a step back. And I think that's a problem for a lot of young guys in the league. And it's just that, you know, they don't want to do that. But of course, the problem is Dennis isn't that good right now. So with Jimmy. So Jimmy does all this stuff he does. Teams are still like, man, I want Jake Ball on my team. I'll give you a good offer.

Like, KOC, why would anybody give the Mavs a good offer for Dennis Smith right now? There's no reason to give them on a good offer right now. And so here's the thing for the Mavs. So you traded your lottery pick next year for Luka, which that's fine. We all like that. You got Luka this year. Trade a couple more retroactively if you need to, right? But here's the thing, though, you have.

With Dennis Smith, like, kind of falling off the map, all of a sudden you have Luca and you have no lottery picks around him. You have no real way to add more talent around him. You've never been a freight and destination. Like, I'm worried long term. Like, I was always worried that, like, they had to maximize Dennis to make this team viable going forward. And not only not even maximizing Dennis, not even using him anymore.

Like, I'm very concerned. It's easy to understand why they're not, though. And, you know, Dennis has poor court vision. He's a poor decision maker. He over-dribles. DSJ is just not a good fit right now for that offense, especially when you have Luca Donchich, who already plays like he's a 50. year NBA veteran in the pick and roll.

There's just no space for Dennis Smith. I get it. I get it. I get it, but it's like, who's going to be the number two player on Dallas next year if it's not Dennis? Is it really about next year or is it really about whenever the opportunity comes to get that guy? Whether it's a free agent in 19 or in 20 or 20-21. I'm saying I'm not sure the opportunity's going to come, KOC.

Dallas has never gotten a big-time free agent, unless you're going to count Harrison Barnes, which I'm not. No offense. Harrison is a player. raise your hand if you would count Harrison Barnes as a marquee free agent signing for the Dallas So then we're going to trade for one, right? There's nothing on the team to trade Maybe if Harrison Barnes is listening to the show. I'm sorry Harrison's a good guy. He's a good guy. He's a great guy. NBA champion, gold medalist, but Deandre Jordan

Could be raising his hand as well. I'm a marquee free agent. He was. That when the mouse got him though. And so like, KOC, who would they trade for now to get someone to play with Luca? Who's the trade piece that's going to bring in a good player? Beats me, man. I'm not a fan of Dennis Smith. Well, you see what I'm saying, though, right? Like, Dallas is in a really tough spot right now, and I don't really know what they're going to do. I'm kind of concerned. I don't know, man.

I don't know what the solution here is. I think ultimately, if you're Dallas, what they're trying to do right now is they're trying to bring Dennis Smith back because it's not like it can't necessarily work. You know, long term, Dennis Smith has shot around 38% on catch and shoot threes. The problem is that he doesn't make up forward elsewhere. He doesn't defend well. It's not like he's a great rebounder. It's not like he's even a great pick up.

and role playmaker. So I'm not sure. Like, I would ideally, I would love to see a star that's worthy of taking the ball out of Luca's hands. So then you could use Luca, obviously in spot up situations,

but also cuts and also using him as an on-ball screener. That would create mismatch issues, using him on a short role, using him on pick and pop. You can get really, really, you can get even more creative

than Luca than you already are. I will say this, though. I don't think Luca wants someone to come in here who's taking the ball out of his hands. I'll tell you that. Like, that's not what's going to happen. Yeah, but what's he going to

If Dallas ever becomes a championship contender, there's going to be a star player who compliments him that takes a lot of his hands. Well, that's the thing. Like in Luca's mind, it'll be complimenting Luca, right? And that's what I wonder to about this full situation. So obviously, Phoenix passed on Luca at one.

Sacramento passes him at two. And not to say that Dennis is as good as Deeran Fox, Stevenberger, because he isn't. But wouldn't those guys have the same problems with Luca being the man that Dennis does? I'm not sure they would, honestly. I think, you know, it's possible. like Luca Donchurch goes into Sacramento and Deeran Fox is annoyed at first.

The year he's having, he might be the most improved player of the year. I'm saying if Lucas there, he's probably not. He probably wouldn't be. You're right, but they also could be a better overall team. And I think those guys can compliment each other. Fox is a much better defender than Dennis Smith. He's a better spot-up shooter this season. He's

better at virtually everything up and down the board. And same is also true for Devin Booker who has said, I want to build a super team. I want the super team to come to be in Phoenix. And for that to happen, requires having other guys who are going to get touches. But here's the thing, though, like, coming to him means coming to him with him as the guy. He's like, yeah, Luca, you can come here, but I'm the guy.

You're screened for me. I don't know if that's necessarily true. I really don't. That's not what I've heard. I was asking about this. And he wants to be the guy. About Devin Booker. Yeah.

I mean, why wouldn't he? Of course he wants to be the guy. So does Luca, though. That's the thing. It's like, it's really hard to manage his egos. It happens. That's how you win championships. You sacrifice and you win.

I would say, like, if you look at champions, it generally comes later in your career. Like, why was Love willing to sacrifice in Cleveland? Because he had been the man in Minnesota and hadn't worked. Obviously, Kyrie didn't want to sacrifice long term. He left. Like, these young guys, they have a hard time backing into a smaller role. Maybe that's true in some cases, but it's also not true in others. Like, is SGA unhappy that he's playing behind Avi Browley or Lonzo Ball sharing the ball? Or Jamal Murray with Nicole Yokic, Gary Harris, DeAngelo Russell, with Spencer Didwitty. Marker's... I think, I think, I think Russell and Dinwiddies could be a serious issue, yeah.

That would not surprise me if that was a concern. McCollum and Lillard have for years. McCollum grew into his role. And I think to all those guys, like SGA was number what, 13 pick, it's different when you come with higher expectations, right? Like, Luke is like, I'm the number one overall pick. I'm not going to sack one to playoff DeN Fox.

Like I was the MVP of the EuroLeague. I'm not going to think to play off Devin Booker. It's just different the higher expectations are. Sure. I just think it's more about specifically DSJ is just not a good fit, virtually anywhere. Because if you're trying to build a championship team, you can't really do it with a guy who's a small little tiny point card

who doesn't defend, doesn't rebound. Dennis has moments on defense, but for the most part... He's played better. Yeah, he has. For what it's worth, yeah, to be fair. But overall, overall, he's just not a great fit. Well, I will say for Dallas, what they can try to sell him on is that Berea is Torres Achilles,

which is a huge injury for the Mavs, like last week. So what happened with Dennis this year is Luka was, the point in the first unit and Baraya's the point in the second unit. So Dennis never really got to be the point guard anymore. And at least with Barrea out, you can say, okay, look, Dennis, Lucas is still going to have the ball with the first, but we can stagger your minutes so you can play more with the seconds and get your stats back up. That's the pitch, but I'm just not sure it's going to convince him. I mean, this almost feels like Patrick McCaw to me right now, where you have a young guy who's really who thinks he's better than he is and is trying to leverage

something that he has no actual leverage. I want to get back to your. point about Luca Daunchers, though. You mentioned how he wants to be the man. I think he's always going to be the man, though. It's kind of like a Stefan Curry thing in Golden State, where Luca is the face of the Dallas Mavericks. But, I mean, if a couple years from now, Miles Bridges or... Now you're speaking our language, Miles Bridges.

But it's like if Miles Bridges comes in signs with Dallas Mavericks years from now, or Darren Fox, for that matter, if another guy who handles the ball comes to Dallas and increases their chances to the championship. I don't think... I don't think I don't think it's different though. I don't be like,

no. Well, but it's different though because in six years he'll be much older and more mature, right? And he'll already have

had the time to be the man. I think like there's a natural progression for careers for these really ball dominant players. You look at LeBron and Wade in Miami. I'm sure that would have worked when they were 22 and 21. They'd both come like,

I want to be the guy. I want to dominate. And then they're like, okay, let's win championships. But then it happens later in your career. When you've already made money, you've already established yourself. It's hard to sell sacrifice to guys early in their careers.

There's older players who don't want to sacrifice. There's younger players that don't want to sacrifice. Mello is washed up and he doesn't want to sacrifice. Last one out of the league. Yeah, I know. I just think it happens regardless of age, regardless of situation. It's just more specifically, it's more specifically about the player personality. And Dennis Smith just doesn't want to share.

He still thinks of himself as the guy no differently than some older guys do. But do you see what I'm saying? For sure. That's why Sacramento didn't take Luca because they said, want to build around Fox and Fox in the face of our franchise? I think that was part of it with them. I think with Phoenix, I think it was more the evaluation and the fit. I think it was a little bit of both because DeAndre Ait is a great prospect.

By the way, like DeAndre Aten, early season, just a quick aside, he was getting shredded on defense. He's been solid past month or so. He's getting progressively better on that end of the floor. That fit looks terrific there. The Booker Aitin combination could be deadly for the next decade. With Sacramento, I do think part of it was about D.N. Aaron whined to be the guy. And I think

a little bit also was about the concern about the fit too because De Aaron last season did not shoot the ball well at all. So he struggled off the ball. And I think it's the same logic there from Sacramento's front office that right now we're seeing with Dallas. But of course, you know,

it seems like Fox doesn't prove to shot significantly. Dallas, I don't think, really wants to move Dennis. Like, they've seen what they can get for him and they know they have to get something from this asset. The problem is, if he wants to be traded, no one wants to trade for him. So you buy that Dallas wants to hold on. I think they want to maximize their return.

Like we've been talking about, they have no other assets on their roster. Like, they can't afford to turn Dennis into nothing. If they do, they're in a pretty bad spot going forward. Moving on, let's quickly go through our All-Star selections with votes being finalized on Monday, starting in the Western Conference, James Hardin and Stefan Curia locks in the back court, right?

Charks, no arguments there? Can you walk me through the voting? So fan vote is 50% of the vote. And so basically they can be overridden by any point by the media, is the media and the players who decide the other 50%. Yes, 25% each. So just because Luca's number two or whatever in the forward doesn't really matter. Exactly.

Yeah. I would be surprised if he were the starter before that reason. Yeah, I would be too. I'd definitely be surprised. But these are predictions. These are like our choices. Okay. Well, either way, Stephen Harder and Curry.

They're locks, right? Yeah. Okay. So in the West, the front court is really crowded. You get Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Paul George, LeBron James, Nicole Yokich. Is there anybody else that should be considered, as those three starting front court spots? I don't think so.

Me neither. I think of those three, the first lock in my mind is Anthony Davis. I don't really care if Pelicans aren't a playoff team. AD's averaging 33 points, 15 rebounds, four assists, two blocks, two steel since December 10th. Pelicans are 7 and 9 over that stretch. Upcoming schedule isn't lighten up,

but it's no fault of AD if they lose. This team falls apart when you pull one of him or Holiday off the floor. 80's a lock as a starter. Yeah, I mean, to me the assist is what's really, incredible. He was never been a passing guy until this season at 4.4 now. He just keeps getting better every season. He's killing it. Katie, I think, is also a lock in my mind. Dropping 28, 7 and 6 again, you know, ho-hum, this is what Katie always does.

Just to give that some historical perspective, the only players will score over 28 points with a true shooting percentage over 62 are Adrian Dantley, Charles Barkley, Karl Malone, Boston's Isaiah Thomas, Steph Curry. This season Hardin's also doing it, and this could be Katie's fourth time, another outstanding season for the future Hall of Famer. Yeah, I mean, to me, to me, Anthony Davis and Kevin Durant, they've proven enough over the last few years. Like, to me, they also are getting about putting the best players on the court, the starters. So I'm not really that concerned if, like, for as great as Jokic and George have been,

no one's taking those guys over Kevin Durant ever. It just, they're just not as good. So why are they sort over him no matter what the first 40 games the season are? Yeah, I think, you know, that last spot, George has had by, far the defensive season of the three, Yokic and LeBron. And LeBron and Yokch are both the centerpieces of their offense. Everything runs through Yokic. LeBron's LeBron.

And he'll have missed 13 games and counting when votes are finalized on Monday. But I think to your point, it's kind of hard to argue against chart. It's kind of hard to argue against LeBron James. Always hard to get hard against Charks. I heard that. It is. It's kind of hard to argue against LeBron as being the choice here. I mean, he's to face the league.

What's really going to happen here? Like, LeBron is LeBron. Like, LeBron sales tickets, LeBron pussy pool in seats. This is entertainment products. He's got to be in the All-Star game. He's got to be starting. He's going to be the captain of the team.

I think right now I have LeBron penciled into that third spot. But we'll see. I mean, we'll see if he's healthy. That's the only real question. Speaking of All-Star, you can still vote. It's time for NBA All-Star voting. And this year, it's actually easier than ever for fans to vote

because you can vote just by searching on Google. Just search for your favorite player or a team and you can vote right in the search bar. You can also search on Google, stay up to date with live scores and view upcoming game schedules. The All-Star game is February 17th and voting runs until January 21st. Fans can vote for 10 players a day. So go vote on Google.

Moving on to the Eastern Conference Charks, no doubt about the front court on this side, I think, with Janice, Joel Embed, and Kauai Leonard agreed. Yeah, that's pretty simple. Yeah, I think so too. And then the back court, Kyrie's a lock, I think, as well, you know, averaging 23 points, seven assists. He's playing best regular season defense of his life. He gets the edge over the others.

Who do you think is the guy in that other guard spot? So it seems like to me your second guard spot is what? Kyle Lowry, Ben Simmons, Victoro DiPo, Kemba Walker. Are those kind of the four guys in the running? Are my forgetting anybody? Yeah, a Bradley Beale. I mean, the Warriors have been so bad this year. We can't put a wizard in starting in the old start again.

I mean, he's killing it, man. 30.6 rebounds, five assists since John Wall went. down. I mean, he's making it a late on. But that's only been like, what, two weeks? Yeah, he wouldn't be my choice. I have Ben Simmons in there right now. Who do you have?

I mean, to me, none of these guys, I mean, I think Simmons is the best talent. But Lowry, I think, has been like the key to Toronto season. Like, Lowry is getting like nine assists a game. He's really, he's taking a step back with Kauai there. And he's really kind of the engine of the offense. Like, you've seen the Raptors without Kauai win a lot of games. Without Lauer, they haven't nearly as good. I think that's fair.

I think part of it with me with Lowry is that he's missed 11 games. I know I hate talking about games missed, but I think that's one reason why I'm giving Ben Simmons the edge over him. Granted Simmons, the only thing he really can't do is shoot. He's done everything else for this team. He's playmaking at an elite level. His defense isn't quite as great as it was last season, but still good. I just think Ben Simmons has made a greater overall impact.

We talked about Victor Oladipo earlier. I think there's a case to make for him as well, despite his scoring efficiency being down. He is still the centerpiece of that team. Kemba Walker as well. He's falling off after his first to start. Now I think about it, Ken was the best player of these guys.

This is tough. This is a really tough slot in the Eastern Conference. Yeah, you know what? I'm changing my vote. I'm putting Kemba in there. That's fair. I think that Kemba just better than the other guys. And like,

Charlotte without Kemba is just horrible. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's a tough choice. I'm not sure what I'll decide for that spot yet. But I think everything else pretty much locked in. It's not hard. Yeah, I would say really it's just this last guard spot in the east is going to be the one that's open.

The reserves in both conferences are almost more interesting than the starters, especially in the back end of those rosters. We'll create plenty of content for that over the next two weeks, I'm sure. Absolutely. Lastly, let's look ahead to the games of the weekend, starting with our NBA watch of the night. On Friday night, the Warriors travel to Los Angeles to take on the Clippers. The games on ESPN at 1030 Eastern 730 Pacific. Charks, bogeys back. Yes.

Let's go. I'm excited. But I just want to, do you think he'll be healthy? Who knows, right? That's what I'm curious to see. I can't wait to see how they utilize him. Will Boogie be eased into like a Andrew Bogot-esque playmaking center role? Or will he just be coming in and being boogie, trying to score, trying to get buckets?

See, to me it's more about his movement. Because, right, because it almost, I feel like, no matter how they want to use him, if he can't guard in space, then he won't be playing in the playoffs. Absolutely. I think with Boogie, he's going to have to play the defensive, best defense of his life in the playoffs. Which is going to be tough coming off the big injury of his life. That's not an easy thing to manage. The Clippers have lost four in a row.

Their percentage points ahead of the Lakers and Jazz who are tied for that eight spot. If they lose tonight, this could be their final time this season that they hold a playoff spot sharks. Isaac, give us some Clippers optimism. What do you think about now? I have none. I have none to give. Oh, they've beaten you down, huh?

No, it's not they. It's really Doc insisting on playing every Bradley so many minutes and starting him. and, you know, Shea, Gilges, Alexander and Pat Beverly when they've started together. I believe they've gone like six and one. And Doc refuses to give that lineup a try in the starting lineup. He thinks that the problem is anything outside of Avery Bradley, which is rather infuriating for a clippers fan. So zero optimism from me, just only despair and utter lack of hope.

I think this more fits your late is the depressed Clippers fan. This optimistic Clippers stay was never really a good fit for you. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com, Amazon, or your local cable or satellite provider. What else will be looking forward to this weekend, Jarks? I mean, to me, I'm on Pell's watch all the time. Yes.

I think it's just fun to watch Anthony Davis's back to the wall, see what he does. Like, the game with the Clippers a couple nights ago was incredible. He had like 45 points, I think. And then he's going to Portland. You know Portland will be up for that game after that happened last year in the playoffs. So to me, New Orleans right now is like the team to watch. It's like, this is it for that with Anthony Davis. So let's see what happens.

Every Anthony Davis game is a must watch. That'd be my pick too for this weekend. There's always a chance 80 goes off for like 50, 20, 5, and 5. He's capable of that. I mean, Nurkich wants revenge, but I'm not sure it's going to matter. Yeah, the Pelicans are only made more intriguing because they're a team in dire straits right now. And they're healthy for the first time all season. Yes, exactly.

For whatever that's worth. They got each one more back at Elford Payton. and, you know, I don't know. They had better players on Davis than the have all season. Any other plans this weekend, Sharks? KOC, I got to ask, how am I with the Patriots, man? Patriots are or what?

I'm not feeling great. I'm not feeling bad either, though. I think it's going to be a great game between the Patriots and Chiefs. Look, man, Patrick Mahomes is for real. He's a beast. He's already a great quarterback. He's the next NFL's great quarterback.

Oh, okay, hold on, hold on. Let me rephrase this. KOC, why are the Pats won this game on Sunday? Don't give me a political talk. Give me the actual reason they're going to work. I need some homerism. Because they have Tom Brady and Bill Belichick still after all these years. And it's hard to pick against those guys with the amount of success they've had with their backs against the wall over the year.

And I know people are getting annoyed for calling them underdogs this weekend. But they are underdogs. They're three-point underdogs this weekend. And there's been a lot of doubt against Tom Brady in the postseason. This entire season there's been doubt against him. And he played a great game last week, hitting all his dink and dunk passes, hit the passes down the middle of the field when he had to. Tom Brady, it's hard to pick against him. It's hard to pick against Bill Bilechuk with a week to prepare as well.

I want to watch the Chiefs just destroy you guys. Like, I'm really hoping for a demolition. I understand why. It's okay. Five Super Bowls, you know, it wouldn't hurt too much after all these years. It's hard to believe that's still going. As I always say, don't take LeBron James for granted. Also, don't take Tom Brady for granted.

No worry, KOC. We know you're not doing that. You're not taking it for granted. That's all we have time for today. Thank you, Chawks. Have a good weekend. Yeah, shout out to Danny Chow. It wasn't the same without you.

Next up, we have Matt Quinn from the band Mount Joy. But first, let's hear from our sponsor. Today's Corner 3 is brought to you by Microsoft Surface. The new Microsoft Surface Pro 6 can help you get things done, whether you're on the field or running a business. Take Brian Arakpo and Michael Griffin, two former NFL teammates who have opened up a cupcake shop. With the Surface Pro, they can do everything they need,

from setting schedules to creating promotions for social media and designing new flavors. Plus, it's light, super fast, and has a great battery life. Brian and Michael are proving you can tackle all your passions with the power and speed of the new Surface Pro 6. And now let's bring in my friend Matt Quinn from the band Mountjoy. Welcome back.

We're going to experiment with something a little bit different here today because on Thursday we had the band Mount Joy in studio to record some songs for the Ringers YouTube channel. And one of the band's founding members, Matt Quinn, is a lifelong Sixers fan. And we've had a lot of Sixers coverage on the website, but we thought it would be cool to get some perspective from somebody who doesn't work for us. So today we have Matt Quinn from Mountjoy.

Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me. It seems like win or lose with this Sixers team. They have the fourth best record since they made the Jimmy Butler trade. There's still a sense of panic with this team. That Jimmy Butler doesn't fit. And yet there's the other side of Sixers fandom, and I get a lot of these tweets that it's like, give it time.

This team is still jelling. What side do you find yourself on, Matt? I think I find myself on the give it time, especially recently we saw the Sixers are pretty up and down. I mean, I think last night, or a couple nights ago, they thrashed the Timberwolves. And honestly, I think you've seen that whether it's Embed Simmons or Embed Butler or any combination of the two, like their advanced statistics are pretty good offensively. And frankly, they've just needed, you know, you trade two starters for one.

they've been looking for depth, right? So I think wait to see what happens with this team before we freak out. And ultimately with this team, the deal was made to add a third star. They're one of the rare teams that have three superstar level players. So, yes, in the regular season,

they have the fourth best record since the deal was made. So they're doing fine despite not having training camp, despite not having a lot of practice time during the season. This deal was more about the playoffs. For sure. And I think you look at this team, and I think last year they go into the playoffs, They're red hot.

They can't be beat. And all of a sudden, they run into a well-coached team in the Celtics, and that's pretty much all they are. They run into a well-coached team who takes away Simmons, and they're left with this problem of, oh, now what? You go out and you get another piece. So if you have a night where Simmons is being taken away, you can run pick and roll with Jimmy Butler and Jolumbie in the fourth quarter. And I think at that point you're looking at a much different team to defend from whoever it is. when that report came out, Jimmy Butler reportedly wanted more isolations,

more pick and rolls, which I think, look, maybe he took the wrong approach in calling Brett Brown at 1130 at night to yell at him for more picking roll in isolation, but I think he's right that you need more of that when the game slows down in the playoffs.

No question. I think that's obviously, he's made a career using those strategies, so I think it makes sense you move somewhere else, and after a little while you're kind of like, hey, let's let me be me a little bit to get the most out of what I do.

I think that's fair. Interestingly, Spike Eskin from the Wrights to Rookie Sanchez podcast wrote an article earlier this week about how, you know, it's pretty compelling that he thinks the Sixers should trade Jimmy Butler. And his main point was basically, you have a guy ever since that team meeting who has stopped taking catch-and-shoot-threes, for whatever reason, even when he's wide open, he's somebody who clearly wants to run, pick and roll, wants to win isolation, and still views himself as the guy.

And he thinks, you know, call those teams that were previously interested in Butler, or the heat, the pelicans, nets, and rockets, so you don't lose him for nothing at the end of the season if you were to walk. Sure. I mean, I get the idea that you could potentially trade Covington and Sarich, and ultimately, at the end of the season, be left with nothing. But at the same time, we saw this with the Eagles being a Philly sports fan.

It's like, you only have a certain window. And I think Elton Brand talked about this with, I think, Zach, whoa. I think it was Zach's pod, yeah. about how the window for them they felt like was the rest of this Simmons contract, right, until his rookie contract is up. Which would be 2020, that's when that's up. Yeah, and I don't disagree in the sense

that you have Embed, you can't look down too far into the future like that where it's like you have Embed being at an MVP level, right? I mean, you've got a player who, when he's on his game, it's pretty hard to beat the Sixers because they're going to score. And the only problem that they're really facing right now is a lack of depth and just no perimeter defense.

And if Butler is the kind of guy who can provide you that in this year's playoffs and you can pick up one piece or maybe it's even something within, like Jonah Bolton hit four or five threes the other night. Sier-Smith puts all his weight back on with his peanut allergy over, hopefully. Exactly. Whatever it is, I think they can find a way to fill the gaps. And the Sixers, I think it's a lot of the Philadelphia media market and maybe a certain other media market.

Maybe that I'm inside of right now, but they get a lot of... There's a lot of Philadelphia people here, more so than Boston, I'm just saying. Just saying. If you look at what happens with the Sixers versus other teams, I think another really interesting point is that they just get so much up or down. Like, there's no looking at them, like you said, that they're doing fine. Granted, they're playing an easy schedule. I get that.

They have a tough stretch coming up. I think the next 12 games are all-versed teams over 500, which is a brutal stretch for them. And we'll find out a lot about the team in the next 12 games. For what it's worth, we're recording this on Thursday, January 17th. And their upcoming schedule is Indiana, Oklahoma City, Houston, San Antonio, Denver, L.A. Lakers, which will have a LeBronback at that point, you would think. Then Goal and State. Then Sacramento, who's tough. Toronto, Denver, L.A. Lakers, Celtics.

That is an insane stretch leading up to the deadline. Then they have the Knicks, the last game before the All-Star break. Yeah, it's a tough stretch. I think we'll learn more about the team in that stretch than, like, you know, a lot of what people are being bummed about is actually, you know, these two losses, right? They had Washington on a back-to-back, lost the... They lost the second one. Lost the second one, and then they went, turned around and lost to, I think, the Hawks at home, which is one of the worst losses they've had on the season.

But they also lost to the Cavs earlier in the year at home. They just, every once in a while, they just don't play well. That game also, anyone who watched that game, there were things happening in that game that were a bit of an aberration. I'm blanking on the guy's name, but dropped 29 points on us, and it was just... Oh, Kevin Hurder from the Hawks. Yeah, exactly.

So point being, there's a lot of talk about the Sixers always up and down, the sports radio sort of Philadelphia always trying to make a story. I mean, I think you look at like in the turmoil, the Jimmy Butler thing, I think there's a lot of characters that fit well with the narrative of like, things are falling apart in Philadelphia. I look at like the self- With the fault stuff and everything else and all that, yeah. Yeah, and it's like.

Simmons and a beat yelling at each other. Yeah, and like I think there's probably maybe a kernel of truth to that. Like, I don't doubt that, but I also think at the same time, time. Like, they presented a pretty new piece. Give it some time. I think, look at like the way, just, it's interesting to me the way the media covers the Sixers, right? Like, I think, look at the Celtics, right? Here's my thing about this. So, so last night there was a story like Kyrie had called LeBron essentially to say, uh, sorry that I was young. I was young and whatever. But if you read the story, which like the real takeaway for, if that was the Sixers, the takeaway would be the

team is in turmoil. But instead the headline on ESPN is, is Kyrie calls LeBron to apologize. That story is about how the Celtics are in turmoil. But you don't hear all this talk about how, you know, Tatum and Jaylen Brown are going up against Kyrie and maybe there's this sort of like, you know, elder statesmen not liking the young guys, which is the exact same situation in Philly, literally the same situation. You have this like, is Jimmy Butler like meshing with the younger players, younger stars, like, that's the same situation. It's just being told differently. If it were like, Jimmy Butler calls Brett Brown in the middle of the night,

and that was the only story, like, I see it as similar situations. With Kyrie, it is quite interesting. When I first saw the quote that dropped, I was like, oh, you know, great sign of growth from Kyrie to admit he was wrong to do that, to publicly call out his teammates, especially his younger teammates. And that's good that he did that. However, as everything else started filtering out, I find myself agreeing with Jeff Goodman from Watch Stadium who said,

Kyrie kind of made it about himself last night after they had a huge win over the Toronto Raptors coming back from down 11 points saying how he called LeBron James, how when he was young, he also wanted it all. And so he understands that his teammates are that mindset now. It's like, wait a minute, man. Like, your team just had an amazing overall team win. It just became about him. And I do think if that were, you know, Jimmy Butler, it would be discussed quite a bit differently.

And that's why, you know, with Spikes, like I said, it was a compelling argument to trade Butler, you know, with the threat that he would leave. However, I can't imagine the value would be there for them now. So, like, Miami at one point offered Josh Richardson, Kelly Olenick, in an unprotected first round pick for Jimmy Butler. The Pelicans offered something with Nicola Miritich, Etouin Moore, and a first round pick. The Rockets at one point offered the four first round picks. I'm not sure that would even be there anymore. So I don't know if it would be worth it for the Sixers to pull the plug here when they have a lot. a legitimate third superstar player.

And the fifth's not perfect, but it can work. And part of it is, as you're saying, running more pick and roll using Ben Simmons in that screening role. And when he's on the floor, Butler and Bede combination can play a different type of style. I mean, I think you're trying here to talk about the Celtics Big Victory, which is fine. But I think there's a fair point to be made that's being glossed over, which is simply the fact that the Sixers get this microscopic lens on them by the national media and the local media, to be fair.

But teams like the Celtics have equal turmoil, and you just don't hear about it. I think the Sixers are just under a microscope in comparison to teams like, you know, for all we know, like Jalen Brown doesn't like Kyrie Irving. Is that a problem? Sometimes it doesn't seem like it, does it? Sometimes I would imagine if you're Jalen Brown after the playoff run that you had last season when you were just killing it, and then Gordon Hayward comes back and he's not Gordon Hayward anymore.

He, and last, against the Raptors on Wednesday night, he looked terrific. But overall, this season, he's had a lot of dud performances. He does not look the same finishing around the rim. So it's like, for the Sixers, the Mark Hell Fultz problem is a unique thing. But so was the Gordon Hayward thing. A guy they're paying $30 million, a guy who had the serious injury that he did, that just does not look the same. I mean, earlier this season in an article, I said how he looks essentially like a slightly better Evan Turner.

And I do think some of these issues are a little bit glossed over partially, and I think this is why it might be, because the team's definitely. is still really good. It's a really deep team with a lot of talent. When they like each other. When they like each other. Whereas with the Sixers,

it's as you said earlier, Matt, they don't have a lot of depth. Their perimeter defense is pretty much non-existent with Furcan cork-Maz and Landryor Shannon and JJ Reddick. These are good offensive end of the floor, even T.J. McConnell. Oh, Corey Brewer now.

Corey Brewer? He's going to change everything on that 10 day. I'm ready for the title. I think ultimately the depth is the number one issue, though. Do you feel confident in them being able to add depth on the buyout market?

I heard yesterday that there was some whisperings of Noah Vonley. Yeah, they did express interests in him. I don't know that he's necessarily the answer or anything like that, but it just shows you that like the Sixers, and they said it when they made the trade, they're not done. This isn't their completed roster. It can't be. If they don't add anyone, yeah, it's going to be a weird playoffs when we have like a six-man

rotation and everyone's tired, but I can't imagine they're done. What is Ben Simmons' ideal role? He's the catalyst for them playing fast. And I think when this team plays fast and plays with energy on the defensive end, that leads to fast breaks. When they're running, just watching the process sixers, like that's the biggest thing that, like, got them from this place of purposely, well,

maybe purposely losing games to this team could beat anybody, is they just, and you saw it at the end of last year specifically, and the heat had trouble with it and tried to slow us down, is that when they're playing fast and running and grabbing defensive rebounds and he's moving up the court, and him in transition, when he's confident, it's what got everyone's so excited about, you know, talk about his ceiling or what he could become

as a Hall of Fame-type ceiling player. Magic Johnson-esque player. It's just him in the open floor. He's 6'10. He's quick. He makes great passes. He makes great decisions when he's moving and not, you know, kind of overthinking the half-court version of Ben Simmons

is obviously what people have taken issue with and probably that's probably somewhat fair I think but for his role for me it's like just open him up let him play fast you know in the half court obviously you have to have some sort of position for him I know everyone's like worried about like can he play in the half court but I think that's why you

get a Jimmy Butler if like you're stalling in the half court because Ben Simmons because he shoots with the wrong hand and can't space the floor well hopefully they'll edit that out I think, yeah, I think his role for me is just let him play fast, let him not think too much. And then if you're in a playoff series, which is what this whole thing is about. Everyone talks about the regular season.

The Sixers are going to make the playoffs. And someone's going to have to beat him four times to get him out. And I think what it ultimately comes down to is, okay, you have Jimmy Butler, you have Ben Simmons, you have Joel Embed. Hopefully, like we said, they've put some pieces around them. At the very least, between the Sixers, the Celtics, Pacers, and the Raptors, in my opinion, you have a potential really intriguing Eastern Conference Finals if it shakes out, you know, goes chalked like that. I notice you guys are going on toward later this month, January 27th until April 7th. Is that intentional that you're stopping right before the playoffs begin?

Yes. I'm glad we are, but I don't think that's intentional now. unfortunately. What are some NBA cities that you guys are hitting on this tour? I haven't done much traveling. Where should I try to go next for stories? I think our favorite one so far, just because I know they've got a great team this year, Toronto, is

such a cool NBA city that I feel like it's kind of forgotten in the especially now they have such a good team, but it's also just such an amazing city, so that's a cool one. You guys dropped your first album last March, March 2018. I remember when I first heard you guys, it was with the ringers Sean Yu, who does

video, a lot of great video stuff for us and his roommate, Sean Wagner, and they played I'm your wreck and Dirty Love for me. And I heard those first two songs, I was like, this is dope. I went back that night and listened to the Elm. And the next night, you guys were playing at the Trubidor. And we connected, and I went to the show, and I went to Gisados to get tacos in West Hollywood before it. And what do you know?

A serendipitous moment, you, Michael, and Sam are in line in front of me. And later that night, who did we meet? Keeper Sutherland. Yeah, that was a pretty crazy night. You know, I think it was our, you know, playing at the Trubador was one of our all-time kind of favorite shows and just to have to walk off the stage. And the show went well, performance-wise for us. So we were all feeling good and kind of walked off the stage and just one of our managers tapped me on the shoulder and he's like, hey, somebody wants to talk to you. I was kind of like, oh, okay.

And I turn around and it's just Jack Bauer. It's sort of surreal. So it was funny. What was he was doing a little whispering in you guys his ears, giving big hugs. He was extremely sober for what it's worth. Yeah, yeah. What was he whispering?

I don't know. I feel like I have this bond with him where like I can't share that. It's like when LeBron covers his mouth post game. He was not going to say. He was saying things, I'll say this. It was like he's such a cool and super nice guy to have come and said nice things about our music, of course, which is awesome. But he's also like exactly who you would.

expect he is. Like if you have that image from 24, which at least my image, growing up watching that, he is intense and super kind, but intense. And he's definitely, like, actively trying to save the world and all the things you think he's doing. I felt that too. Are you guys going to do any work with him from the new album? I'm sure I get Kiefer, you know, featuring Kiefer Southern ones? If you're out there, if he's listening, yeah. Are you guys writing for now? Yeah. Yeah. So this January, we've been off the road for the first time in a long time and finally been able to like, it's kind of like NBA, honestly, that you really don't get time to practice.

Like, I've always heard that about teams. You know, they're essentially similar to musicians. They're on tour or these road trips. It's traveling, getting into the hotel at 11 p.m. at night, waking up early, maybe you get a shoot around, but no practice time. Yeah, and I think a big part of that is, like, the reality, I think a lot of people don't think about for music touring, and it's got to be true for these guys as well doing the sports traveling.

It's like, traveling takes so much out of you that I have to imagine the last thing that these coaches would want to do is like, you know, you take a cross-country flight to Portland and, you know, the team's tired, waking up with the jet lag. Last thing you want to do is run a hour and a half practice up and down the court when, you know, you need every ounce of energy, you know, especially if it's a long road trip that you can. So I think for us getting back here, not being on the road, we've finally been able to practice, which is like, seems so fundamental to what we do, but you really, you know, except for sound checks, you really don't get that much opportunity. Well, that was fun, but unfortunately, we're going to kick to out of the studio,

so it's all we have time for today. Thank you, Matt. Yeah, thanks for having me, Kevin. Appreciate it. Thank you again to Jonathan Charks. We're looking forward to the return of Danny Chow next Friday and be back on our normal schedule. Thank you for listening to the Corner 3. Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes, a like on YouTube, share, subscribe, tell your friends, et cetera. Thank you to Isaac Lee for engineering the podcast and to Bobby Wagner for producing. Thanks again for listening. Hope you have a beautiful weekend.